Palmetto State Armory 13.7" Sabre Review (So Much Potential)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ต.ค. 2024
- Here's my review of one of the many new options from Palmetto State Armory's Sabre line of rifles. I go over the good, bad, and give my overall thoughts on this new line.
What is the sku for this rifle?
Sku 51655160268
I’ve literally watched 100 videos about this damn rifle and this is the most informative, thank you!
Much appreciated. Glad I could help
Also, I agree with what you said at the end. A lot of people are seeing this from PSA and thinking because of the better quality parts that they stepped their game up, but that don't mean shit if the build quality isn't there.
Yeah. This is what I have a problem with. Seems disingenuous.
I appreciate your investigation into this rifle. It's great to know about the issues that need to be addressed so they can be corrected by the end user, if they feel so inclined. Or even better, so PSA can address them in the future. I still think it's an amazing value at just under $1000.
Bought this same upper and had same issues w/ no thread locker on the rail screws. Haven't taken the time to remove the gas block or barrel nut, but both were tight when I removed the rail but did witness mark the gas block set screws to keep an eye on them. I applied green loctite to the barrel nut for the rail so I'm not in a hurry to rip everything apart again. If I do, I'll either do what you did and remove the gas block, dimple, and rocksett, or just pin the block through the barrel (like a true "duty" gun should be imho). I simply removed the QD swivels when I found they weren't anti-rotation and installed a BCM QD socket. I have yet to have a malfunction of any sort and I'm getting similar accuracy from any load I shoot through it.
As for it being a good buy or not, I simply bought it for the parts. At $836 after TN sales tax, it was almost $250 cheaper than buying similar parts and building it myself. I, too, have the means and ability to fix the simple issues and still have a pile of money. IMO, if a cop bought this, he could take it to his armorer and have the simple issues fixed. He shouldn't have to and PSA should do it the simple, detailed things to truly rule the market w/ these. Until they do, they're still amazing value in just parts. I've offered to all of my friends that, if they get one, to bring it to me and I'll do what needs done to make this a superb upper free of charge (plus saving me money by scratching the building itch w/o me spending anymore money!).
Yeah. Really good parts. If I wasn't able to make the corrections, this would be a complete no because of the way they're marketing the gun. Keep me update. Let me know how you're rifle holds up.
You have given the most in-depth review than all the other reviews I've watched! Bar none. Agreed that screws must have "Loc Tite". Learned alot from your review!!👍
@richardmmarcus1 thank you.
Appreciate the review. As someone new to the AR platform every bit of info you give is very helpful. I would have no clue what the look for.
Glad I could help
I got the 16" forged version, knurled rail, non chf barrel. There was such excessive play between the upper and lower, it required an Accu-Wedge to be installed. Handguard bolts were NOT thread locked. BCG had what my gunsmith called "weird gunk" all over it that he cleaned up. Hyperfire trigger has excessive creep for upgraded single stage trigger. The 3 and 9 oclock mlok sections immediately behind the covered slots are oversized, so my 2 slot rail covers have a gap thats very noticeable.
Also, my QD points didn't have those metal inserts, but did still have anti-rotation abilities. Haven't fired it yet, but after 2 PSA ARs I HIGHLY recommend having a gunsmith go through it before you use it.
Sorry to hear that. These are the things that dive me nuts. That little extra attention costs almost nothing and will go a long way with their customer base.
Hands down one of the best reviews I've ever seen. Awesome job 👍
Thanks. Means a lot.
Agreed
M&P grip texture is the greatest! I love my M&Ps all of them! Canik 2nd and Glock 3rd for my go to pistols.
Yeah man. Love that grip texture. Huge fan of the M&P line.
Love the M&P
As you stated, it seems like a good buy if you're willing to fix a couple of things that should already have been done.
Hey bro. I jus came across your channel and I subscribed. I jus purchased the Sabre 2weeks ago. Haven’t shot it yet. But this was the kind of video I was looking for about the rifle. This kinda of gives me pause hearing you explain your issues. I don’t have firearm knowledge like you do but a buddy of mine does and I will have him take a look at mine. Great video bro.
Thanks for the sub and feedback. It really does suck. I didn't want to make this type of video, but if there's something going on, I want people to know what they're getting into. Let me know how you make out and if your friend comes across the issues I found.
@@airborneivan I definitely will. I just sent him this video. The only difference is my sabre doesn't have the FN barrel but I did want that CHF and my furniture is B5. I can tell you know your $h!+. Keep the videos coming bro.
@@ajpeake9817 thanks, brother.
@@airborneivan hey bro I meant to ask you what kind of optic mount and magnifier mount do you have in this video
@@ajpeake9817 Sig Sauer Romeo 7S with Sig Sauer Juliet Micro 3x Magnifier.
Dudes got concerns of it not being good to go out of the box, meanwhile he’s out of breathe shooting standing still in the intro…
Rifles the least of your “good to go” worries
It's called an upper respiratory infection. And my concerns weren't for my sake. They were for those who might use this in a professional capacity (primarily law enforcement) as PSA was making the claims that its GTG out of the box and saying it would be a good choice for cops. I explained this multiple times in the video. Appreciate the comment...
Bro, it seems like you’ve got good knowledge, but you are struggling to breathe. Take care of your health so you can keep putting out thoughtful, thorough content!
I was dealing with an upper respiratory issue at that time. Lasted weeks.
@@airborneivan Yikes! Take care, man. Appreciate the rifle review. I couldn’t find much information on the Hiperfire trigger outside of your video.
@poopymcface9792 Thanks. There's not much info out there, but I'm pretty sure it's just a Hiperfire Enhance Duty trigger, and they swapped the springs for the JP reduced power springs.
If you want a $2000 rifle for $1000 there are going to be sacrifices made somewhere. You get very high quality components, and in my experience always assemble very well and to spec. Where they save money is with the fine details. But the good thing is these are the fine details that can be very easily corrected by the owner. If they gave us shitty components there is nothing you can do about that except replace them. So if there has to be a sacrifice somewhere, I’d rather it be in the lack of loctite as opposed to low quality parts.
I get what you're saying. I'm sure we can agree that most $2000 rifles aren't worth that much, and you're paying more for the name behind the product. In this case, I think it's appropriately priced and a great option, if you know what you're getting. My biggest issue was how they marketed the rifle. Those that may not be as knowledgeable as you and I might gravitate towards this because of the marketing and price point. I've built a lot of ARs. As a diesel tech, I've rebuilt a lot of engines. I understand the importance of loctite and how little effort it takes to apply something and torque it to spec. For something that's marketed towards LEO's and civilians as a great option for defense, I found it unacceptable to not apply loctite, torque bolts and set screws to the correct spec and dimple the barrel. Especially when their touting it as their premium line. These are all things that take very little effort and add no more than a few minutes of additional time. Again, I still think it's a great option for those who can take care of these things themselves.
@@airborneivanI agree with you on the markup due to name. Throw Daniel defense on a rifle and you can instantly get away with charging double the price. Take the BCG for example DD uses MicroBest. You can buy a phosphate fully chrome lined MicroBest BCG for $110, but take that same exact BCG and put DD on it and it now costs $250. Literally the same thing.
@denniswerner1670 exactly. This is why I've moved to just building the vast majority of my rifles. Better QC and cheaper overall.
So your saying the industry standards can be ignored because it's cheaper? 🤔 this is their premium rifle that's skips basic builder requirements. I need a better argument then that, wait for geissele sale and buy a super duty for $1200 🤷
@@sandymitchell8182the industry standard is mil-spec. Cheaper rifles meet usually mil-spec requirements. More expensive rifles almost always exceed mil-spec requirements.
Ouch. I’ll wait until PSA reconsiders and fixes those issues. I don’t have the tools to fix those when the rifle arrives. Thanks for the review.
Honestly, based on my email exchange with them, I don't think they will change their build process. It's such a shame, too.
Well unfortunately I saw this after mine is already ordered and shipped. However I'm mechanically inclined and can throw loctite on some stuff and torque a few things. I was really wanting a quality built rifle out the box.
Seems like good quality parts but the same old notorious half assed PSA build quality. Such a shame for a $1000 rifle.
Yup
Great review. You touched on everything I was concerned about. I'm going to pass on one of these.
Thanks. Like I said, there is so much potential. If they refine their build process, they'll be sitting on a gold mine.
My Sabre has a different hand guard and mine has none of the issues yours did? I appreciate your review!
Sorry for the late response. Just saw it. Your handguard bolts had loctite on them?
One interesting thing I've found is that there are a good number of people that believe that a gas block with good quality set screws is enough. I've asked a couple of different gun smiths about pinning blocks and got diatribes about set screws being fine instead. No Thanx! I'd want it to be at least dimpled with some rock set applied.
I mention this because PSA may feel the same as some of the gun smiths I mentioned before... that adequately torqued set screws are fine. Funny thing is that I specifically bought the 13.7 quad rail upper'd Sabre because it has a pinned gas block (the front site base). I'm not going to buy any uppers that don't have pinned gas blocks!
I hear ya. Honestly, I think they're just cutting corners to rush these out the door.
@@airborneivan Honestly, I'm going to go with "rising to the lowest expectation" and that low expectation is knurled set screws, with or without a thread lock of some sort. As an example, you can get an Aero M4E1 Threaded PRO 137.7 complete upper for a 100+ dollars more than I just paid for the Saber upper and it does NOT have a pinned gas block. And I'll bet there is no loctitle or rock set.
Geissele and Noveske uppers on the other hand.... But these are 1200 to 1500 dollar uppers.
On a different note, there is something curious about the uppers with the font site base / gas blocks and quad rail. Looking at them from the side you'll see that the muzzle device seems to point upwards. It's not just mine that's like this, but everyone I've seen. But that oddity aside, it's DEFINITELY an accurate barrel.
@Terrence Cox agreed. Those knurled set screws only work if the barrel is dimpled, so they're just a waste. I have to check out that quadrail upper. I haven't looked at it long enough to notice.
I believe they don’t use compounds is because of their lack of cc which is actually beneficial to guys like you and I that take the piece down upon arrival. This, I would have done by my smith whom I’d ask to make sure the gas block is on correctly and to dimple the barrel and rock set the pins. Tbh, it would go straight to the smiths to remove the muzzle device anyway. I would stamp it. And install a xeno flash hider for a ocl can. Might also change out the charging handle for a raptor sd and also furniture to magpul k2+ & str stock. And done after all bolts lock tighter and torqued. After that Dr. appointment, he’d be cleared to run.
I see your point. Personally, I believe if you're going to market something as "premium," then all the little things should be taken care of. Honestly, I would've preferred they offered the uppers without the muzzle device and just leave it up to the purchaser to use what works for them.
I was afraid of this. I've been highly interested in this Sabre line since it was announced at SHOT. Everything about it sounded great, I just wanted to see how well it was executed.
I have been wondering how the gas blocks were going to be secured, yours certainly look poorly done. Some companies will pin the block, some will dimple and use thread locker, some will stake the set screws, this seem to have none of those. I wouldn't call this GTG.
Liking the looks of that grip and stock.
I don't know how long you waited in between groups but in most of them it appears your first shot was a cold bore shot.
I only wait about a minute or two between groupings. Mainly due to time constraints. As stated in the video, if you like the furniture but don't want the PSA logo, the company is THRiL.
The gas block was my biggest issue. Personally, I've used Rocksett for years. Always dimpled my barrels (if they weren't already), and after thousands of rounds of hard use, I've never had one come loose.
It's truly a shame because I believe this would be the best rifle, bang for buck, on the market, considering all the upgrades. Let's see if they make some changes.
Great review. Agree on the marketing portion. Awesome info on Thril. Will be purchasing one of these rifles and using a thread locking compound everywhere
Thanks.
Stag doesn't dimple their barrels either but the newer models have the ba hanson barrel with a pinned gas block.. I really wanted one of these 13.7 uppers
Thanks for the info. Wasn't sure if they dimples their barrels or not.
I got the fn chf, geissele hand guard, huxwrx qd flash hider and threw a rave 140 in an aero lower 👌 very nice smooth crispy ass gun zero issues
Nice. They didn't have those options when I got mine, but I'm not mad about it. The rail is actually robust and well built. Muzzle device works well, but it's too long for a Sierra 5 to attach to it. Both 1/8" too long.
@@airborneivan Is the total barrel length at an exact 16" or a bit more with the stock muzzle device that came with it?
now this is a review! badass work man
Thank you.
Curious why people choose any upper shorter than 16" while not using it for an official sbr. My thinking is since a 13.9" has to equate to 16" through the use of an extra long flash hider.
Edit, ah it's for suppressor use huh?
I'd say suppressor use and just wanting an overall smaller package. Most barrels are 16.1"-16.5" then you add the length if the muzzle device. When you pin a muzzle device, it's usually pinned to 16.1. Helps reduce the overall length of the barrel. Then theirs those who just like the short barrels, for whatever reason.
Really considering this as I think it’s still very good for the value, especially since the issues seem relatively resolvable. Just to confirm the 13.7 with the pin and weld makes it 16” and therefore a rifle correct? Sorry if that’s a dumb question. Great information in this vid!
Not a dumb question. Yes, makes it 16". If you have the means to make the corrections, then it's a good buy. I'd stay away from the billet version. There seems to be mag well issues.
It was either the 13.7 sabre or the SOLGW 13.7 nox... the CHF FN barrel was the selling point for me over SOLGW QPQ barrel. But after this if SOLGW does pin their gasblock then im going with SOLGW
If you're looking at the M4-76 from SOLGW, the gas block is not pinned. They use knurled set screws and I can guarantee the barrel is dimple, and the set screws are torqued with at least high temp thread locker. To me, it comes downs to capabilities. If you have the capability to correct the issues I spoke about in the video, then you're gonna get a really good rifle at a great cost. Saving you about $700 over the SOLGW M4-76. Hope this helps.
@@airborneivan helps a whole lot. I may go with that.
Just one great honest review on all aspects. PSA, in my world famous, urgently sought after opinion:-))shipped a great $2k rifle for $1k…? Even if paying for a couple inexpensive (but necessary-in my opinion)tweaks. If you have to get a smithy$75 is easy for a time (and safety issue fix). I believe you will get a positive response only after customers start returning on these warranty issues. That’s just how the warranty/actuarial game goes.
Great video. Just a dumb question, how did you get the hand guard off? Thanks!
@@doz03 it's just two allen bolts and a plate on the back side. It's simple to remove.
@@airborneivan Ok! I took the 2 bolts out. Pulled as hard as a could twist etc etc. can’t get it off for anything. But thanks!
@doz03 did you pull the plate out the right side? That plat is what those bolts screw into and they index on the barrel nut. If you don't pull that plate out, the handguard won't come off.
Your video was very well thought out and well executed. It kind of sucks t6hat they didn't get back to you. I've bought so many PSA products and have has good luck I guess. Sorry to hear you are having trouble. I have always retorqued all screws on every rifle I've ever bought, be it my BCM, DD or PSA. I just like doing that kind of thing. I still think this is a great value for the money.
Spot on review. The gas block should be “bomb proof,” especially if the muzzle device is pinned/welded.
Does the flashider have that irritating ping?
I like they use Keymo and I run Dead Air’s flashider on 99% of my builds. I’ve been very pleased w the Sandman S silencer for many years.
Yup. My point exactly. Your pinning the muzzle device and screwing the customer.
As for the muzzle device, absolutely no ping or ting, what so ever.
The ringing comes from the psa made sabre comp(the warcomp at home) but the pin and welded have a jmac and there is no ping. I have both a 13.7 billet rifle with the jmac and a 16 inch upper with a sabre comp that I am testing out.
Great vid! Question:is your magnifier clear at a distance? I just bought the Juliet 5 with the Romeo 5, it’s got a good pictures at about 15 feet but looking at it across the street it’s really fuzzy… is yours the same? I hv a cheaper Feyocchi and the picture is crystal clear at any distance. Thanks for any insight. 😊
Thanks. My magnifier is clear. Took it out to 400 yards with no problem. You may have to play with the diopter. Have you zeroed the red dot, then zeroed the magnifier?
@@airborneivan just looking thru the magnifier alone it’s blurry at a distance, tried to adjust the diopter as well with no success. Gonna call Sig tomorrow to see what they say. Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. I am really new to shooting and every over complicated 1000’s of options out there with 1000’s of more opinions! 😆😆😆😆 it’s a freaking jungle.
@@monztermovies yeah. Sounds like there's an issue with the magnifier. I'm sure they'll square you away.
@@airborneivan for anyone that may follow along here, I adjusted the diopter by spinning it more than you would think it needed to be and the long range clarity was achieved. I spun it to the right probably three full rotations. 🤘
@monztermovies awesome. Glad you got it figured out.
Great review! Glad to have someone competent with gunsmithing to give an honest and thorough breakdown of the rifle. I was looking forward to getting the complete upper but this made me give it a second thought. Besides having an armorer's wrench, blue loctite and a torque wrench, what else will I need to properly set it up like yours? I do not mind taking it apart to build it the right way but I'm just not sure if its worth buying all the other tools/materials. Thanks!
Thank you. The only other thing I can think of is a means to dimple the barrel. If the upper is a 16" variant, you can pick up a dimpling jig from KAK or various other companies. If the muzzle device is P&W, look up EZ Accuracy, LLC on Amazon. They have a gas block dimpling tool that allows use your current gas block to dimple the barrel. You just have to ensure proper gas block alignment before you dimple the barrel. Also, use Rocksett on the set screws. Loctite will soften with heat, and the gas block get very hot with strings of fire. Remember to let the Rocksett cure for 24 hours before use. If you can take care of those things, I think this is a great buy for what you get, barring my issue with the companies marketing.
@@airborneivan Thanks! I'll check out the EZ Accuracy one since I was looking at the 13.7" length like the one that you had in the video.
Thanks for the detailed review. PSA should look into the issues you raised.
Thanks. I tried to talk to them, hoping to get some clarity on these issues, but never made it past customer service.
Wow, I'll do my own due diligence and look at other options. Thanks again.
Seemed like every first shot was a flier. Heard of some odd things with muzzle devices and torque specs. But could very well be a metallurgy thing. Still shoots pretty good. Great content and some very valid things you brought up with the break down. Christ not even anti seize on the barrel nut is crazy. Definitely need to be dimpled like you said
Thanks.
Very well done vid and well said. I've fixed hundreds of PSA's that had terrible build quality and these were issues 100% of them had. I'm gonna pick up an upper from this line soon and send it around all over the country to buddies to shoot and get it to 10k+ rounds as quickly as I can. With a 3k in a day shoot at the end of the year.
Thanks. Seems like they don't care to do the little things that matter. Really is a shame because I truly believe they have something that can rival the higher end companies by filling the need of offering quality at an affordable price point.
Are you going to inspect it prior to shooting it or run it right out of the box and see what happens?
@Airborne Ivan as stuff works it's way loose it'll be corrected. GB set screws handguard screws ect.
Thank you for a true a honest Video, when a company states this us our BEST I'm gonna hold them too it, although I love the idea of PSA, I can't trust them, had a upper that was just a paperweight, kept gouging brass that gunpowder would be every where, bullets would hit top of barrel extension, I sent it back, never getting any correspondence, finally got it back it was never fixed, same way I sent it is the way it came back, Finally took it too my Gunsmith, had him go thru the while rifle, correct feed ramps, tourqe everything, add proper lubes and loc tights etc, she runs good now, point being if I gotta fix psa rifles I may as well build them myself🤷. I buy things from them, ammo, optics, accessories. But I can't trust a psa with my life. Rifles,weapon not done right are dangerous things I don't wanna be around while explosions are happening , thanks again for your honest review, most would say just send it back! PSA Gets too much slack for their bad QC, I just save some more and get a better quality rifle then the 3,4 $500 ones they offer 🤷
@sandymitchell8182 I appreciate that. Same here, I like what they're doing for the 2A, but their QC needs to be addressed. With the Sabre line, they're using really good components. I don't think anything on that rifle is made by them. Unless you get the non CHF variant. Then, the barrel is produced by them. Simple things like checking torque specs, adding a dimple, and some loctite elevated this rifle. Things that take very little time and effort made the biggest difference. I expect issues from their Freedom line but not the Sabre line that's being push as their upper tier and claimed to be aimed at "duty" use.
Thanks for posting
I have a 16” quad rail but would like the 13.7
It’s mind boggling how far the ar15 platform has come.
I agree.
I really love the Houge grip its rubber overmolded with the finger grips its the best grip there is .
Thinking about buying one, and if I do I'll know what to look out for, thanks
Glad I could help
Fantastic in-depth review, this is exactly what I needed to see. I was (and still am) strongly considering a Sabre for my first AR since they have unbeatable components for the price point. How much do you think it would cost to take one to a gunsmith and have them address the handful of construction oversights you pointed out?
Edit: For anyone who might be interested, my gunsmith quoted me $75
Honestly, I wouldn't know. You'd have to call around. Sorry I couldn't help further.
any gun smith that would charge you more than $200 to fix these problems is ripping you off. buy a tabletop drill press and a tube of loctite, a few tools and you can do this yourself, of course you're spending about $200 to do so.
@@joshuaewart6201 at least if you get the tools, you can take care of those same issues going forward on any rifle.
Ivan did you say you put some loop Velcro on the buffer tube to mediate the stock wobble? Do you have a video of that? Thanks.
I did. I actually take a small strip of the loop side of velcro and stick it in the stock, at the top of the buffer tube bore. Unfortunately, I have not made a video demonstrating this. I will when I have another stock to do that with.
Did you dimple your barrel if so what tool did you use thx
I did dimple the barrel. Due to the pinned and welded muzzle device, I used the mark that the set screws left on the barrel as a reference and used a center punch to mark the barrel where I planed to drill. Then I drilled slowly til I got the depth I was looking for. As for jig that I normally use, it's the KAK Multi Position .750 Dimple Jig. Midway USA has them in stock for $25.
In my mind every PSA product needs to be given a once over. I'm basically buying semi assembled assemblies when I buy psa. Secure gas block, torque a few things down, then carry on. You're paying for qc with AR's. Period. The component costs are pretty much stable and at the peak of affordability. Pay more to have qc'd or pay less and do it yourself. I took an armorers course. It ain't complicated and solgw does them all over.
The only issues is with the pin & weld uppers. The vast majority of people are not gonna be able to drill out the pin to properly dimple the barrel, then reset the muzzle device.
Most people, including me, aren’t going to waste time trying to learn how to break these rifles down to a point that you need special tools and vices to rework and assemble. Most people want a complete budget rifle they don’t have to mess with. This is perfect.
@@rocksnboarderno matter what rifle you get sooner or later you gotta work on it no matter what company you purchase from 5000 rds in you will be doing some kind of up keep.
For someone who can’t get these issues resolved for themselves, what gun do you recommend around the same price point that does using locking compounds and dimples the barrel? Awesome review.
Sorry for the late response. Honestly, I'm not sure. I seen FN just released their Gaurdian line of rifles that msrp's at $999.99 but there's some reduction in quality parts. I'd say a BCM complete upper and the PSA Sabre lower will put you right around $1000 and that would be something that's good to go.
Thank you for responding. I know you mentioned bcm, apart from bcm what upper receivers from other companies could you recommend that don’t have these PSA issues? And that are ready to go.
@Fermin Cardenas Aero Precision has their Pro Series complete uppers for about $800. I'm not sure about their assembly process, but I've always had good with their products. Geissele blemished uppers go on sale quite often. Primary Arms has a bunch of them in different lengths for $800 - $900 but does not come with a charging handle or bcg. You have Sons of Liberty Gun Works East India starter kit. No handguard, muzzle device, bcg, or charging handle BUT comes in under $500, and they build their stuff to be bomb proof. You have Expo Arms (Primary Arms gun company) that seems promising. $450 with no bcg or charging handle, BUT it's a true mil spec barrel. Primary Weapons Systems have a few complete uppers that come in around $800-$900. LWRC has their Pistol Conversion Kit. An upper with no bcg or charging handle and a buttstock. That's a few I could look up that may be good options.
So are you saying you think this rail compares to the Midwest industries combat rail how? This one is better or the Midwest combat is better? I have some experience with the combat from Midwest, im trying to get a compsrison in my head.
I was saying this rail is beefed up in the 3,6,9 o'clock positions, and because of that, the rail seems to be much more rigid and less prone to flex unlike the Midwest Industries rail. Which I love but does flex more than this rail from PSA.
@@airborneivan gotcha. Thanks!
@@l337l0gan anytime
Thanks for the news I just got one
I wouldn't worry about it. If you have experience, these are things that can easily be addressed. If not, a local gun smith could have them squared away for you. From my experience, after correcting those issues, it's been rock solid.
@@airborneivanhow much do you think a shop would charge to check
@KayoMonei954 not entirely sure. I typically charge $25 an hour. Every shop and gunsmith is different.
How long did it take to ship after your purchase?
It was 5 days from the time I ordered the upper to the time it shipped. I actually had to call to get an update cuz I never got an email notification until 2 days after I already recieved it.
These are really impressive rifles for the price.
They be even more impressive if PSA did all the things they should do during the assembly process.
Till they fall apart because of PSA's build practices.
Wow. What a disappointment. I like PSA and their Dagger line. Did so well, for me at least, that I picked one of these Sabres up. Should get it in a few days. I know my way around an AR but not in depth as you. I’ll give it a good inspection out of the box when I get it… I really reaaally hope I dont have to send it back. Are you on IG? I’d like to keep in touch with you if you dont mind. Awesome video, man. Smashed that sub button.
Thanks for the feedback and sub. I don't have a channel based IG account, but I'm working on it. If you need to get a hold of me, you can email me. The email is in the about section of the channel, but I'll drop it here. Airborneivan@yahoo.com
@@airborneivan Thank you so much, brother. Email sent!
@@DesertTactical I'll check it now
Thanks for the video. What is the hand guards torque specs?
If I remember correctly, there was no listed torque spec. I torqued them to 25-30 lbs-in
@@airborneivan thanks brotha
“not a dimpled barrel” Yeah! It’s the builders job to do it if the barrel doesn’t come from the manufacturer that way. PSA claimed in 2019 that ALL there stuff would be dimpled going forward. They miss represent their stuff all the time. Take their new ammo line. All labeled as 5.56 ammo but NONE of it has sealant or crimped primers. They’re even selling a 70gr Barnes TSX defensive load no primer crimping, no sealant. Everything PSA does has small corners cut. BUT they’re the things that make the difference between it being a sporting plinker or a serious use item.
I can see that. I think most 5.56 ammo isn't sealed or crimped. I think they're just using 556 cases and meeting the pressures. That aside, I know their in-house produced barrels are dimpled, but FN doesn't dimple their barrels. It's possible that they do dimple the barrel, and the CS rep doesn't know what they're talking about coupled with whoever assembled the rifle, just missing that step.
Any 5.56 and even .223 REM loads intended for duty/defensive use will have sealant (you just don’t notice it on some because it’s clear). They claim their “Black Tip” and TSX Load to be “defensive.” Yeah, FN doesn’t dimple them because they don’t know how it’s going to be set up (With a FSB or Not). That was a cop out answer they gave you and they do know better. They don’t take the extra 10 minutes and $5-$10 per gun to rivet their AK’s correctly either but that’s just another example of those key corners they cut. That if they did those things it would take their stuff out of the toy tier.
Is it overgassed or undergassed? Whats the actual length with the muzzle device, 16”?
16.1" OAL. It's perfectly gassed, imo. Without a suppressor, I get case ejection right at 4:00.
Why isn’t there a QD mount at the end of the receiver, my other Sabre has one
Maybe it’s because they added those additional QD mounts but those new ones are not where I prefer
It may be a different handguard. I know they offer the Savre line with a few different handguard options.
how do you like the romeo 7 with a juliet magnifier? Id watch a video on that!
I like it a lot. For the cost, I think it offers a lot. I plan on doing a video on it. Hopefully soon. Been crazy busy lately.
They need good customer service!! The customer is key to success!
@troy9er their CS has been good outside this particular issue. I do agree with your statement, and I hope they step up their game.
@@airborneivan yup, I know good customer service is VERY important
Amazing review!
Thank you.
You look very tactical checking your rifle every few rounds for jams.
Lol. Honestly, I forget what I was even checking for.
Do you know what the rifle weighs out of the box ?
@americankulak4596 I don't, but I can weigh it later, as I have it set up, and let you know what it currently weighs with an LPVO, BUIS, light, and sling.
@americankulak4596 just weighed it. With everything attached and an empty mag, it's 8 lbs 10.9 oz. Naked with no mag is 6 lbs 4 oz.
@@airborneivan right on. Appreciate it ! Thank you.
how would you compare this rifle next to the Saint Victor?
That's a tough one. I have no experience with one, but there's not a lot of specific info on the barrel, trigger, bcg, etc. What it does have going for it is the BCM furniture, and the gas block is pinned in place. The trigger is nickel boron coated, so at the minimum, you'll get a trigger like BCM's PNT or ALG's ACT trigger. A clean mil-spec trigger. Just based on the specs on paper, I'd say the Sabre line edges out at the moment. More so if you're willing to put in a little work on the rifle to make it good to go.
I appreciate the depth of your review. Excellent. But you're awfully easily pissed off. Do you recommend a rifle that's a better value and a DOESN'T piss you off? I like to build so my own, but I'd have been pretty happy with that for a grand. I can easily fix all those minor issues.
I wouldn't say I'm easily pissed off. My issue is how PSA marketed the rifle and how they dismissed my claims when I tried to bring my findings to their attention multiple times. As for the rifle, I'm not sure there's a rifle that completes. If you build you're own, you'll be happy with this since you can make the corrections. Only other option that comes close is a complete bcm upper and a Sabre lower. Comes in around $1000, depending on the upper you get.
Good info... Especially the Out The Box concerns. Another few hundred to the Smithy and it's Still hands down the best value for the Money... "Knowing is Half the Battle "
@ahmadcampbell2626 the only thing I believe most people won't be able to do is dimple the barrel and that's because of the pinned muzzle device complicates things. Aside from that, you can make the corrections at home like I did and save some money.
How do u adjust the gas block?
If you search PSA AR10 on my channel, there's a video explaining how the gas block works and how to adjust it.
Start rucking. Stop with the carbs.
so yeah, if the best you can get is just under MOA with 77gr ammo then I think thats more the shooter and conditions than the rifle. its nice to see a review where the user admits that. great vid. thanks! def buying one of these as I can fix all the problems you listed myself. I got 4700 tubes of loctite lol. and yeah, the cold bore shot syndrome is worse with shorter barrels.
Thanks. I know I'm capable of shooting way tighter groups. I have bolt guns that with my hand loads will give me .5 moa or better, consistently. I think some of the groups in my review show the potential for greater accuracy. Most groups were ruined by that cold bore shot and I don't think 77 gr loads are the end all for accuracy. Federal 77gr SMK's are often looked at as the best, but I can get consistent sub moa groups with AAC's 77gr OTM's. Every barrel is its own animal. I will say that with the shorter barrels I've found that the cold bore deviation is more pronounced. Definitely let me know how you make out when you get if you get one of these rifles.
@@airborneivan agree 100% and will do!
Odd to have no grease for the barrel nut and no thread locker for the gas block. Cmon, PSA, you’re better than that.
I build some rifles and I will say that Loctite for the egas block isn't needed. Blue and red don't work because of the heat factor. Anti-cease grease is required and if it was not on there it was a mistake.
great review - u know ur sh*t. U r right but for companies these days its not whats right and good its just profits. NOw PSA does stand with good cause - selling as many rifles as possible as low price - they never said they will be banging out of the box. So not sure if u can expect BCM / DD quality out of PSA. AFter ur review (and i am not that mechanical with em - don't like touching gas blocks or free float handguards) so i will def not purchase this. New to ur channel and subscribed. What rifles or companies do you recommend out of the box ????
Thank you.
Don't get me wrong, I still like PSA and love what they're doing for the 2A movement, but they did say during shotshow, "It's the best rifle for under $1000", "that's good to go right out of the box". That's a very misleading statement. While I agree, on paper, it's the best rifle under $1000, my main gripe is telling the potential customers that it's "good to go out of the box" when the things that truly matter weren't addressed. If you have the capability to make those corrections or know someone who can, I think it's a great buy. If they correct those issues, I believe they could rival BCM and DD, or at least come very close. Unfortunately, the vast majority of potential buyers don't have the tools or know how to make those corrections.
As for suggested companies, nothing under $1000 comes to mind for serious use or a go-to rifle. I like BCM. I'm a big fan of LWRC's Direct Impingment line. I think it's the best bang for the buck. MSRP'S around $1599.99, but I've seen them sell for as low at $1300, which is a steal. Battle Arms Development's Workhorse rifle is pretty good. Msrp is $1199.99, but I've seen them go on sale for around $900. In all honestly, I think the best option would be to buy a BCM complete upper and pick up PSA's Sabre lower. That puts you right around $1000, and you have a solid rig.
@@airborneivan thanks. Glad u said BCM - Had a BCM c lower for years and about 6months ago bought a BCM BFH 16" MLOK h/g upper - all out c optic & acc i'm in about $1400 into this rifle. Will look up more on LWRC and Battle ARms development. Never knew anyone who buys a rifle - takes it apart and inspects all - that is some next level stuff. If you keep doing reviews in that much detail, ur channel shoudl blow up - thats if we still have our 2A rights - lot of pressure coming from this admin - that will never end tho till they get their way. Neways, thanks for the reply and look forward to ur videos.
@Nick_ P_ definitely appreciated. I hope the channel does get big enough to get T&E products to review so that people can make more informed purchases. Plus, this get very expensive when you have to buy everything yourself.
As for the constant attack on the 2A, we just have to keep fighting. Things have turned in our favor lately, despite some of these states continuing to try every means to restrict us. Just gotta stay consistent.
@@airborneivan i did think we were heading the right way with so many states getting constitutional carry but what shocked me was gun control being proposed in Tennessee last week. I mean its TN - wow. T Rex ARms (who are in TN) even sent out an email about it as if it was a big deal. Just insane - hopefully all the crime and stuff gets the young generation ppl to see the need and imp of 2A but we shall see. BTW what state are u in? i am in Nevada - bit too many damn CA ppl moving in - but i am one of them LOL - got the hell out of CA about 5yrs ago.
This was a great video
Thank you.
If you have any more information or videos about the Sabre line I’m definitely interested or anything else you have info on like this it was very detailed and informative. The truth speaks loudly when it’s presented properly so thank you.
@anthonyhampton9794 much appreciated. Unfortunately, I don't have much more as I've been very busy and haven't had much time to create any content. That being said, the Sabre I have has been rock solid since taking care of these issues.
Hope you do an update video!
I will. I've got some things in the works that will go in this rifle that will be part of an update.
they should have sent as a kit to allow self assembly.
Unless it's being bought as a complete rifle, the uppers should not be pinned & welded, if they continue to forgo setting a dimple on the FN barrels. I think they dimple their in-house barrels, but I'm entirely sure.
Is that gas block a Geissele .750"? thnx
It's PSA's .750 adjustable gas block.
@@airborneivan super fast response! Thank you for the info!
@@askaryambus glad I could help.
Did the trigger pins walk out? I saw a video with them not having loctite on them and one of them walked out
I've had no issues with trigger pins walking.
You don’t loctite trigger pins. They are smooth. No threads
my rifle is much more accurate with the right grain ammo and being match, it shoots exactly on target with sierra 168grain match, POF revolution DI 308 and just good with 147grain FMJ
Nice video Brother, well done. Fellow #AATW here, matter of fact, Falcon Brigade at Bragg for years and a couple of tours in Vicenza which, is where I picked-up this nickname Gallo Pazzesco. Ironically, I'm a PSA fan boy. I'm an acquaintance of the founder, "J-man," from back in the days when he was selling surplus out of his house not far from me here in SC. I am subscribing to your channel now but, I gotta observe and say as a fellow Airborne guy, short tabbed, jumpmaster master blaster .... you get it. Lose some weight friend. Try fasting, walk a lot, push away from the table, watch your caloric intake. We need you on our side. Deal? Anyways, will be happy to watch your progress as you transition from fat to chubby and back-to Airborne Studly. Subscribed, bell rung, commented, upvoted, liked, shared, saved .... may the algorithm gods smile favorably upon your channel.
Thanks. Always great to hear from a fellow 82nd brother. I agree with you. My weight has been an ongoing battle. There's a lot that goes into it, including some medical issues, but I am trying to get things squared away. AATW!!!
You sound like a pog talking
@@iknowthetruth8479 soooooo .... you actually hear me talking, in your head, as you read the words I typed and posted to this comment section? Do I sound similar-to Morgan Freeman? Mel Gibson? Robert Duvall? Denzel Washington?
Well I don’t know if psa is considered High Quality. It’s mid at best
Yea, PSA's regular stuff is low end, their Sabre stuff is mid tier.
@@OtiumBorealis I don’t know, I have the billet with no forward assist. Not super impressive, I put a fixed power leuplold with warne mount. (I like fixed power lol it’s what I learned on) the gas system unsupressed is fine. With a can it’s picky ,
Subsonic ammo didn’t flow. It is a descent rifle. But I would pick a aero if I had to depend on it. They just wanted a hot sell point so they made there version of a m110. I have a clone from Charles clones. About 14k into it. And I know it’s going to flow everytime. Idc care if the rifle is 200$ or 50k. I wanna know that it’s going to work. Everything can have a issue. But like Glock you can bet on it working. Psa for paper shooting. Metal, etc fun. But if your going to hunt say coyote. I wouldn’t put all my trust in PSA.
Still cool, still bought a billet 308 and my son a forged 6.5. But got 2 rifles for the price of one.
PSA is just as good. They only sell products at low price points because they don’t like profit.
If they upgrade BCG's and revamp their QC department, I think they could be just as good.
@@airborneivanaren’t the fathers of freedom bolts that come with the Sabre top tier? They’re made by microbest to the same spec as bcm and sons of Liberty.. and microbest makes the bcgs for both of them..
@MrLucht they are made by Microbest and and as far as I know, the components used are the same. Only difference I could tell is that the bolt itself is not HP tested. Just MP inspected. Although, I believe, they're batch tested.
@@airborneivan thanks. I ordered one yesterday. Came across your video a little late. The barrel dimple situation is my only concern. Please keep us updated on it! I’m curious if it’s gonna be prone to rotating. I’m just waiting for mine to be shipped.. and may have to have the local gunsmith dimple it..
@MrLucht I plan on doing an update video. As far as the dimple goes, I spoke to someone who has a 14.5 variant, and theirs came dimple, so they either made the correction after I got my rifle or mine was a miss on the builders part.
Moving on…
Lol. I was waiting for someone to mention it.
Since we're being hypercritical, your wheezing and heavy breathing while sitting is of serious concern.
What? Did I offend your favorite gun company??? Well, I wasn't sitting during the review, and there's no need to be concerned. That upper respiratory infection is gone.
I’d rather have the toolcraft nitride bcg
Any reason why?
They are proven tried and true I’m not sure about the new ones
@eddiearchuleta615 I'd say Microbest bcg's a far more proven considering who they manufacture bcg's for. I have both, but if I had to pick, it would definitely be Microbest.
A lot pissed you off...
#519
1st shot is a cold shot
i dident see any under 1/4 inch shots they were about 2 moa ! my SnW MnP shoots waaaay better than that standing up shooting !
junk buy BCM
you hungry?
I’m looking at 223 in 14.5 or the 556 in 13.7 quad rail.
Not sure which one yet.
I have a full 16 POF and 10.5 POF
I like to get something in the middle but not looking for it to be heavy. Might just add lpvo and can
The difference between the 13.7 and 14.5 is so small that it almost doesn't matter. Even if you factor in a suppressor and its relation to overall length. I'd say get the better deal. Whichever is more cost-effective and available. Speaking of, I got an email earlier showing the Sabre 13.7 quadrail in FDE was back in stock.
ALWAYS get 556 or 223 WYLDE
Solid review
Can you send me the link to this rifle
palmettostatearmory.com/psa-sabre-forged-13-7-mid-length-5-56-with-13-qd-rail-and-jmac-gfhc-e-pin-weld-sabre-furniture-rifle.html
This is the link for the 13.7 Sabre with the same rail and furniture. Only difference is this link does not have the FN barrel. If you want the FN barreled 13.7 upper, you'll have to buy it separately.