Thank you for building one of these. I did it years ago, though not to this extreme, and despite their design flaws I fell in love with the engine. I don't think too many people appreciate them
@@WillometMotorFab Indeed. I had mine bored 0.020" over, block decked 0.010, heads milled 0.005, and put an HX35W turbo on the stock manifolds, and ARP head studs. Ran amazing with 22 lbs of boost. Really woke that thing up!
@@timothydurm4366 That's a good possibility. I don't think I found any information back when I built mine, just adjusted the wastegate actuator until it didn't smoke too bad. 22 lbs made it right. Of course, stock head bolts are out of the race around 14 lbs.
I love seeing people using these. I have a 6.5 599 block in my 1991 FJ80. I pulled it from my 2500HD a couple of years ago. With 180k on the engine, the cylinders still had good cross-hatch. Bottom end looked like new with no visible cracks. I did find cracks between valves on the heads at the rear cylinders. I cleaned it out and put new heads on with ARP studs. I added all of the updated cooling components along with the best fan and clutch I could find. HX35 turbo, 4 inch in, 3 inch straight out. I'm only running 15 lbs of boost. It's a little hazy pulling hills but EGTs are good and it has plenty of power for the Land Cruiser. I can get nearly 20mpg on the highway with 4.10 gears, 35s, and full-time 4wd through the 4l80e.
That time working along side with your Dad as team is priceless. And you have it recorded to boot! It builds such confidence and security to have a master at your side.
I think the coolest part about this was the fact that you were able to build the new engine with your dad. That’s the part that you will remember in years to come. I still have great memories of building engines with my dad. I hope to create the same memories with my kids when they are old enough.
My first experience with the 6.5L Turbo was while working at a Chevy dealership. We had to pick up a small fleet of trucks we had to sublet for modification. I chose a route back which took me over the back roads with some seriously steep hills. I was amazed at how the truck I drove pulled up the steepest hill, it kept accelerating as we climbed which wasn't an easy task for most vehicles. I also wound up seeing a fleet of these trucks towed in with blown engines. The truck shop mechanic simply stated much of this was probably due to what he called misuse -- driving it like a gasoline engine, winding out at high RPM or excessively lugging it. Otherwise he insisted it was a good engine. Over the years, with the experiences I've had working in the automotive repair industry, I have to agree; if properly maintained and not overly abused, they can be an efficient and durable engine. And who doesn't love that old school "clacking" of an old school IDI diesel?
Great content. Nice shout out to Wells Racing,Dennis is the best in the business. Most of the 6.5 hate is because people don't understand them. I worked in a fleet with about 100 and went to GM STG training in Burbank CA in 1995. Once I understood the platform I loved it because it was so simple to work on.
Nice to see another Suburban with a 6.5 getting souped up! Hopefully someday I can get my hands on a p400 or optimizer myself. I thought about a Duramax swap too, but decided to stick to older and simpler. These engines get a bad rap imo, they came out of the factory with a few issues, but once sorted they're solid as anything imo.
I find myself simply watching your video with your father. I miss my father... He was an oil field worker a driller.back when rig were made of wood. The heart metal drilling rig Grilling gas well in Paris, Texas. it exploded blew five thousand feet of drill pipe out of the ground.the flame could be seen all the way to Dallas. only one person hurt with a broke leg. Then he became owner-operator trucker. We're at the age of about 6 years old. He parked his truck at a mechanic shop. that mechanic talk me much. It was a great man. Probably one of the best mechanics on planet earth. I cherish my childhood growing up around the older guys. The young man coming back from vietnam the older guys that work here. What I'm trying to say watching your video with your father? Brought back great memories, thank you. Happy fourth of july to you and your family. .
I'm a gas engine guy and have never seen a Detroit engine up this close. It's actually a good lookin' engine. Also didn't realize there is as much aftermarket support as there is.
Glad you did all this. Swapping in a Duramax / Allison combo is like tossing an LS into a car. Booorrrriiiinggggg. I have a 96 Silverado with the 6.2 660 block bored 30 over, Mahle pistons, Scat Crank turned down for a two piece rear main seal, custom wrist pin bushings, ARP studded main and heads, balanced rotating assy. P-400 heads, fluid damper, custom ground cam (not Crane), etc. etc. I too had adult supervision putting it together. Love it. 6.5s...addiction.
You and my brother are cut from the same cloth...well different brand of cloth. He's the same way with the 7.3IDI. I helped him rebuild a 92 CC F350 and he became obsessed with the IDI engines. Nice truck and great video!
💪Definitely worth the wait. It's crazy how much time has past by since the 6.2 build. My oldest boy has been eyeing up my old burb, I showed him different parts on it that I fabbed up gosh it must have been 25 or 26 years ago, your name came up when I showed him the rear shock mounts on the frame. Steve's business was just taking off then and in those days information came from word of mouth, Four Wheel magazines, or phone calls to someone for answers when no one was building parts like beefier rear shock mounts for a Suburban. Alot has changed since we both first built our Suburbans. I think its time my boys and and I build a new engine for my Burb too. The 6.5 build, the video, and time spent with your dad, "Priceless". Thanks for sharing this build David, looking forward to the next part. 👍
The years and time spent together is more valuable than any of the trucks or their parts. Don’t they go by in a blink? Go build with your boys, and tag me as you do.
@@WillometMotorFab you bet! Now I’m waiting for the top end 😂 a friend and myself were in the middle of his 6.5 build when yours had that mishap last year. He had quite the time finding head studs. Love watching your videos man. You put out top notch work. Look forward to some of your trips with the suburban too!
The execution, tone, and educational approach is how all Automotive blogs should be produced. Amazing work! Automatically hit the like button and subscribed 30 seconds into the video.
I just got my 6.5 a relatively short time ago, I am excited to see all the inner workings, maybe one day I’ll get an optimizer myself. Not too many good videos of building one of these, always glad to see another.
Nice work gentlemen. Thoroughly enjoyed seeing something different for once. Just plain cool in my and I’m sure many other “engine guys” perspective. Good stuff! Thanks for sharing!
The mental wish-list of mods is way too long to list... you know how that goes, I'm sure. The drivetrain is bone stock with the weenie little 10-bolts, so an axle swap is definitely next. I still haven't made up my mind whether to try and source a Banks sidewinder kit for the 6.2 or go with a 6.5, but this video has me leaning 6.5 now... and probably a 4L80 at the same time
What an awesome video!!! I hope you don’t experience the loss of your pops for a long time but as someone who has recently. The time you have had and the fact that you documented it will be cherished. Love the IDI 6.2/6.5!
As huge fan of 6.2 and 6.5 myself, I love your video. Simply outstanding. I myself put GM 6.2 in my small 19 f. (youtube video). My 96 suburban GM 6.5 turbo with 5 speed transmission with Gear Vendor behind it. I completely understand you excitement. Have nice ride. 6.5 rocks!
Thank you for sharing this video with us!! I am an absolute fan of the 6.5 ever since my days in the military. I have 2 6.5 diesel trucks today and love them. Great Video
I also thought that only the P400 had a forged crank. This is great news that the Optimizer also has one. Maybe I’ll go that route instead of a Cummins.
This got me digging and i found a catalogue that shows the newest Optimizer 6500-550 (250 hp, 550 tq) comes with the forged crank, the others still seem to be nodular iron (but maybe that is outdated). good news, i thought that all went away when they stopped making the P400.
I suspect the P400 AMG HMMWV upgrade program didn't gain the budgetary traction some were hoping for. Thus GEP probably had a surplus of forged P400 cranks and said let's stick 'em into to 6500 Optimizers. I have two 2005 Optimizers and both had cast nodular iron crankshafts!
2:02 You say " they are heavy " I disagree, the 6.2 liter diesel was designed to drop in a Chevy pickup, replacing the 454 gasoline. Same weight, same size and footprint. So G.M. did Not Have to redesign the entire truck. 1. 6.2 liter (650 lbs.) 2. Cummins (1150+ lbs.) 3. International 466 (1500+ lbs) 4. Cat 7 liter ( 1500+ lbs) So.... compared to the other pickup Diesel engines, the 6.2 / 6.5 is much less weight.
That's fair feedback, and your notes match mine about weight and intended use. Relative to those engines, it's is fairly light. I was commenting in terms of engines people often use in place of a 6.2L today - LS, SBC mostly. 650 lbs is heavy compared to the options available today. But, those other engines don't make nearly as many good sounds as the 6.5, so add that as a tick in the "pro" column.
My dad had a 6.2 in his 36 foot 80ies rv with a 400 turbo. Ran awesome and mid teens mpg. I remember running 87 mph going to Florida. Engine never failed. Probably 80 - 90000 hard miles. Careful with ARP, they denied my claim because I used quote to much lube. I had 4 head studs stretch on a 4.6 NA mod motor.
I work in an engine shop and we’ve been having problems with their hardware the last few months as well. Real shame, they were the gold standard for so long
Man this is cool. Grew up with 6.5s, dad has a pretty turned up p400. Here because I'm getting ready to do a 6.5 build and put it in my 63 impala with a 4l80e What a cool video!
Great to hear the Optimizer ships w forged crank. 6.2/6.5 world is getting smaller and smaller and good info and great vid production is highly appreciated!
You guys did a pretty good job! I build cat diesel engines every month. I still use lubriplate 105 on most surfaces and ultra slick on the cam and lifters. Hopefully that bottom end holds up. The best 6.5 blocks had the p400 bed plate to keep tue. Mains in place
Thanks dude. Feedback from a pro means a lot. We would have picked up a P400, but the NOS one we found in stock was a bit spendy. Like, beyond reasonable even for a 6.5 nut like me.
Great video, awesome to see you and Pops working together :) And no such thing as labeling too many things when building an engine! Thank you for sharing the small details like tool part numbers. Did you remember to gap your rings before installing? A new set doesn't guarantee proper clearance Every P400 part is still available except for the block or full engine. The best head upgrade for a 6.5 is to run P400 heads, they have hardened valve seats and will resist cracking better than the stock Optimizer heads or any aftermarket one Also a word of advice to anyone installing timing gears- Don't assume they are plug and play. There's a recent aftermarket set that have the dots off by one tooth and several engines have had valves hit pistons and trash engines. At a minimum use the old timing chain set dots to align the cam and crank before putting on the gears Thanks for giving the 6.5 some love, they definitely have a trash reputation because of GM's penny pinching but when built and maintained properly can be a very reliable and easy to work on engine
Awesome work David, the detail, care and passion will guarantee this build is awesome ! Sharing this with your dad is truly awesome, keep up the great work mate, look forward to next episode 👍👍
Welcome mate, reminds me of turning spanners with my dad….and now my son… 😁 well done for capturing real life around our hobby. That, and your story-telling ability is what makes this a unique and awesome channel👌
Helpful helper tip: If you want grease on engine parts that won't be assembled for a while, ATF assembly grease is a great option because it withstands pressure and dissolves in oil. But if you don't have that around, plain old Vaseline petroleum jelly works just fine. It stays in place and readily dissolves in oil. It doesn't offer much resistance to pressure, but as long as your oil pump is working, it should be fine.
That's funny, my dad told me this same thing about vaseline yesterday when I was messing with a corvette servo for a 4l60e. He rebuilt trans for many years.
Great job. Very enjoyable to watch with some very professional looking editing and professional narration. Kinda sound like Mike Rowe there a bit. Cheers from Brandon Mississippi!
@WillometMotorFab Glad I found the channel too! Funny story. One of my best friends growing up in high school acquired a 92 or 93 silverado with a 6.5 shortly after graduation. The thing had a bad compression skip and was blowing a ton of white and blue smoke. Pulled the head on the bank with the dead hole and found a severely scored cylinder. From there we pulled the oil pan, removed the piston from the bad cylinder, honed the crap out of it till all the vertical lines/scoring were gone. (Really should have been bored but he was broke as was I). Put the original piston back in with a new set of rings, buttoned the motor back up and the thing ran like a top! Albeit it always had a little bit of piston slap on that cylinder until it warmed up afterwards. Ended up driving it for 4 years after that going back and forth to Northern Arizona University and it was still running pretty decent when he sold it! 6.5 DDs aren't as bad as people make them out to be.
GM stuff built willomet tough.... there is no muff to tuff for willomet stuff ... that would be a great t shirt or a big sign in of a business... great video 👍👍👍👍
Absolutely loved my optimizer in my k5... needed a new injection pump, and probably rebuilt, so I decided to jump on the ls train for power to cost ratio, but man do I miss that oll rattletrap
What are the specs on the camshaft? The logger torque cam made by Russ Mathis helps the 6.2/6.5 and 6.9/7.3 IDI Navistar and diesels in general produce more torque and breathe/scavenge better. I believe the reground specs are 261 in/ 253 ex @.006 leaving the LCA the same unless they tightened it up a smidge. I was in the army national guard for 14.5 years, so I've come to love the 6.2/6.5 diesels
It’s a factory cam, and I don’t know the numbers. I sure wish I did. A cam swap has always sounded interesting, especially for off idle torque before the turbo gets in it’s efficiency range.
@@WillometMotorFab the turbo spools up faster and sooner. There's a mechanical engineer that also applied thermal barrier coatings to the heads and pistons and turbo injectors to a set of NA 6.5 heads to speed up reaction time and increased output...he ended up being able to do a serious 30+ feet burnout...and that was naturally aspirated
@@WillometMotorFab Yes I agree David! That would be cool to see on video... I had a 1970 Buick Electra 225 with the 455 big block and I could sit on the accelerator and smoke the rear tires until the engine flooded. I loved that car
Now there's an engine piston company called speed of air that has partnered with United Engine Machine to create and modify pistons with turbulator dimpling and ceramic thermal coatings otherwise known as speed of air pistons. These pistons create extra swirl and tumble in the cylinder also otherwise known as twirl which creates better combustion efficiency and reduced emissions to where the opacity on an LML 6.6 Duramax was 2% before after gas treatment through the DOC, DPF etc. that percentage was just with the piston replacement only and the ECM was left stock.
Nice video. On the gear drive, ive heard from old timers that they can cause a harmonic that kills crank shafts or the nose of the cams in the 6.2 or 6.5. I’m not sure how true that is but just something you might look into just incase. Any 6.2-6.5 stuff I’ve dealt with I’ve talked to Heath about, they had the land speed record with one back in the 90’s I believe.
Thanks very much for watching. I’m glad you enjoyed it. I’ve heard the same about gear drives, and disregard their comments completely. Timing chain slack is far more concerning, especially for these engines with only a few thousandths clearance from valve at piston at TDC. Gears are broadly superior to a chain, though more expensive to install.
I've been waiting for this day to come! Very cool to see a family truck get an engine and your dad is doing it with you. I am very happy to see you sticking with Detroit power and not going with something more fashionable. Now if only my CUCV engine would blow up so I can do this 😂
@Willomet Motor & Fab never the 4x4 squarbody suburbans, especially with a diesel, but a few regular cab mud trucks on propane and hot rods. No cool diesels up here just bro builds 🤘 haha few cool diesel and gas toyotas tho 👌😁🤣
@@brycewilliam1984 I used a fully brand new DB2 and set of short body injectors. I didn't pull anything over from the 6.2, but that pump, lines, and injectors would have swapped over, directly.
Ill have to keep that option in mind if the 6.2 ever goes in my 91 suburban or 85 suburbans. But I have a spare and that long block you started with is 8 grand.
I drove a 99 GMC dually for ten years that had the 6.5 turbodiesel. I loved the engine, although it was the "weak sister" compared to the Cummins, Power Stroke and D-Max. One of the worst things on that engine, and easiest to replace for more power, was the downpipe out of the turbo. It had dings and dents from the factory to allow for clearances, but it was so restrictive the engine couldn't breathe. I installed a Banks aftermarket downpipe that made the engine feel like it had grown a couple of cylinders. I had always heard the engine was good for 300+ hp when done correctly, but it was said the main bearing caps would shatter (like it looks like your 6.2 did), unless a girdle was added with side bolts into the caps (making each cap cross-bolted with 6 instead of 4 bolts). I notice your new engine doesn't have the girdle, is that due to better metallurgy on your build, or is the girdle really not needed? Awesome build, I sort of wish I still had that old dually.
It's the block's main webs that crack. The outermost 10mm bolt holes on up through the cylinders, and area around the oil squirters. The cast iron cranks are also very prone to the two part self-modification phenomenon if either the damper or the dampened pulley fails. If your rebuilding a later gen 6.5L? It's money well spent to have all the sharp edges radiused or feathered near the main journal webs and the bottom of the cylinders. They are ALL stress risers, IE crack starters.
@@xxxxxxxxxx6903 that's part of why the optimizer doesn't have oil squirters, and the later ones come with a forged crank. Pretty happy with those upgrades.
@@WillometMotorFab- I have two 2005 military takeout Optimizers. Neither had forged cranks, and both have oil squirters. The Optimizers squirters aren't the typical bolt on tube assemblies. Rather they are pressed in orifice plugs located on the bottom ledge of the cylinder/main web interface. If you don't run the three hole main journal bearings they're blocked off anyway. They are points of stress-riser (IE, crack points), but hard worked turbo 6.5's greatly benefit from the piston cooling they provide. Helps with the infamous cylinder #7/8 radial cracking phenomenon.
As a ford/international guy I naturally always have hated these engines due to the design/reliability/output and personaly have rebuilt the top end on one. having said that i really enjoyed your video and cant wait to see the finished project!
Just a hint put a shot of Power Service in each time you fill tank, just adds some lubricity to the fuel that's been removed helps injectors and injection pump.
The 6.5T is a good engine. And taking it to the degree you are really showcases what they can do. Instead of using a steel screwdriver to get the wrist pin clips in use a brass screwdriver or polymer. Then it wont scratch and you won't have to sand or file burrs.
This is awesome heard a lot of bad about them I now have a 6.5and love it and I'm fixing to rebuild it could use some advise never fooled with them before
Diesels have come a long ways. Used to be a member of the Diesel Page, the motherload of all light duty GM diesel info except the Olds 4.3l and 5.7l, but was holding back long enough until the right deal for 03 Cummins with the 6 spd came around and never looked back. Learned my GM diesel lessons on a 5.7l Custom Cruiser. Heath Diesel and Kennedy Diesel used to be the go to shops for all 6.2/6.5 aftermarket developments. What a rip off finding a $9k long block not being balanced to the 9th, but may be considered within spec. I don't know. You must have another $1.5K in it building it the right way. Anyway, the 92/93 MY 6.5l were considered the best years before GM switched to the electronic drive train management. Great video production for my entertainment pleasures and a like and subsripe for keeping those family heir looms on the road and keeping dad busy. Somehow I do miss that Texas drawl, though ... hm...?
I remember TDP - that's the way back machine! I too used to spend a fair bit of time on there. You'll find me in complete agreement in my disappointment about the engine having imbalanced rods. I get why that might be the case - low RPM maybe doesn't "need" balancing - but it was a let down all the same. And yeah, I did spend a bit more at the machine shop and additional components (you'll see in the next video) getting it how I wanted. Thank you for being here, and I appreciate the comment.
Hello, I have a question, is there any way to obtain a forged crankshaft for a 6.2 from around 83? I have one that I have to rebuild and if there is any way to get a better forged one because I don't want to have the risk of it breaking and having to throw away the block because here in Uruguay the blocks have VIN numbers and you have to do a lot of procedures to change the engine and they are not possible either, thank you and sorry for the inconvenience and my English
Nice build man, thanks for showing it! Would you mind sharing the part number of the optimizer longblock with the forged crank, maybe here or in your next video...
@@WillometMotorFab Sweet. Thanks so much, I'm in the same boat, love the 6.5 and was so bummed when I finally had $ for a p400 and they discontinued it, but a forged crank seals the deal.
I had a 6.5 in a suburban for over 10 years. Despite what the internet says, it was a great engine. Has some upgrades and worked great. Now i have a 5.9 cummins in it and would never mess with a 6.5 again. The cummins turns your truck into a real truck. I understand wanting to keep your truck original though but damn pouring that kinda money into a 6.2 seems crazy. A 12v will make more power without doing anything to it
Unfortunately the 1179Lbs Cummins 5.9L is just a wee bit heavier than the 780Lbs 6.5L. And as much as the Dodge steering systems just loves all that weight, so too will a 400 series Suburban. 🤪 Now if you want to explore an interesting option look into the rather hush inline-6 GEP 3.5L Styer marine mono-block engine they have with the standard SAE bell housing bolt pattern. It was designed to bolt up to a 4L80E! Off the top of my head, I remember 255HP/520Lbs-Ft Tq. Oh and BTW, the mono-block means the head is part of the block, IE no head gasket!
@@xxxxxxxxxx6903 guess you never put a plow of your truck eh? It weighs more thrn the difference in engines. Your talking like 300 lbs lmao. My 2500 holds up just fine to the extra weight. Not sure what point your trying to make but my cummins with compound turbos makes like 3 times the power whatever motor your saying i should have used makes. Lol
Any suggestions on building a 6.5 for longevity, not performance? I'm building one now. So far I have a SCAT crank, and MAHLE pistons that are 0.030 over. I'm going to sandblast the pistons and get the Cerakoted, because 3 of my pistons have one coat (like the one in the video), and the other 5 have a coat that extends all the way to the edge of the piston. I'm waiting on rings, but I ordered ductile iron with plasma-moly face. I also ordered new bearings (main and rod), but they're not here yet. Once I have my order, I plan on getting harmonic balancer + flex plate so that I can get the block bored and the rotating assembly balanced (I need the balance + flex plate because the engine is external balance). I also ordered a torque plate, so that when the block is bored, I'll have the most perfect cylinder possible (aside from hot hone, but it's a diesel, not a formula1 car). I'm especially going with a torque plate because the 6.5 tends to deform significantly when the head bolts are replaced with studs, which is my plan. I also plan on boosting the turbo from factory 7 PSi to about 10 PSI, maintaining stock injectors. My goal is not an engine with 300+ HP, I'm happy with the 190 stock produces, I just want something that will last me 300k+ miles. My truck is a 1993 K3500, the trailer I tow weighs about 3,800 empty, and weighs up to 14,000 when loaded. I tow for about 190 miles (380 miles round trip). Anything else I should consider changing?
The engine build we have here is good for what you’re describing. I’d suggest two things: - ditch the factory turbo, yesterday. An HX35 or 40 is the ticket for efficiency without high exhaust pressure. - run the big DB2 with the big injectors, but leave it at the 250hp/515tq setting until you test it with the load.
@@powerstar2363, my engine has a DB2, mechanical injection, not much tuning I can do to an engine that doesn't have a computer or electronics. It has a crank sensor, but it's for the transmission module, no engine or powertrain module. But now that I think about it, I suppose I could advance the pump by a few degrees, thus advancing the injection timing, thanks
Yes, just buy my Dodge 3500 Cummins/Aisin . The Aisin transmission is the same as the 4500 and 5500. Remember, when you see a car hauler pass you hauling 3 or 4 cars, that is the Aisin. I tow a 12,000 pound fifth wheel travel trailer, using cruise control and coming Down Mountains using cruise control and Exhaust Brake (factory). My Dodge pull my 12,000 pound trailer, like it has on trailer behind it. Really! Sell what you got, buy my Dodge. I have had all of them 1. 7.3 Ford 2. 6.5 chevy 3. 6.0 Ford 4. 6.4 Ford 5. 5.9 Dodge 6. 6.7 Dodge The 6.7 Cummins is head and shoulders above the rest. Also have a Cummins 6.7 with the factory Allison transmission from a Ford F-650. That was laid on it's side, in a Ice ❄ Strom. That 6.5 will not pull 14,000 pounds and last. Also the transmission will not last. Do yourself a favor, buy my low mileage Dodge 3500
@@BillWilliams-p4o, I sort of have a 6.7 as well. Originally it was equipped with a 5.9, I just swapped it with the first gen 6.7. I just don't drive it much, less than 50 miles per year. I like my 6.5 because it doesn't draw much attention from DOT. It's a regular cab, long bed, regular tires, de-badged and ,SRW with factory (and severely faded) paint, plus a lot of body rust. Also bumper pull, no gooseneck. I know gooseneck is ideal, but it draws more attention from DOT. The year I got it, I picked up some wood for heating my home. I pulled up with a trailer and asked for a cord of wood, which weighs about 2 tons, depending on moisture content. Guy looked at me like I was crazy. He looked at me dead in the eye and said, "you'll never make it home!" At the same time, they just loaded up a Dodge Dakota with the same amount, about 2 tons (4,000 lbs). The Dodge Dakota looked bigger than mine, with the extended cab, the lift, and mud tires, but I figured that the 8 lugs on my truck should of been a give away that it's made to tow substantial weight. That experience, me buying firewood and being told that my truck is too small, is what sold me on using that truck for towing without drawing much attention.
Thank you for taking time and effort to make this video . Your knowledge and attention to detail is really important to all the GM Detroit Diesel guys out there. I have a question, I thought the P 400 is the better engine than the Optimizer 6500 , or am I mistaken? Any thoughts/ opinions and information I would appreciate . Thanks again.
The P400 has that girdle, which is pretty nice and fulfills the original Detroit deep skirt design. But, they don’t make the P400 anymore (as of this writing). Other than that, the optimizer with a forged crank is really close to the same thing, and definitely up to the 550ish lb ft a big DB2 or well tuned DS4 will throw at it.
when the 6.2 self dissembled was there a turbo installed? how much boost was it set for? theres limits to boost on the higher compression 6.2 engines, 21 to 1 if memory serves me...add 8 pounds of boost it will live add 10 pounds plus then you get a grenade....
If you dont have a thread cleaning tap, i use a cutoff wheel and cut a couple slits up the length of a correct bolt. Hit it with a wire brush, Then run a nut up it to make sure theres no chunks in the threads. It will do a pretty good job of getting crap out.
I love the 6.5, but I like the NA 6.2 better. Reliable (if you do a few things) and fuel efficient. Those are the two things I like in a diesel. Reliability and fuel economy.
I am in DFW too, well Keller. My son and I did something similar with a 2001 LB7 duramax. Bought my best friend's truck from his widow, saved it as a project for my son and I to do. We finished it during covid. Made the mistake of installing a Wagler AFO cam. Its super fast but basically acts like a 2-stoke dirt bike with a crazy powerband that hits at 65-70mph, had to buy my son a Silverado SS and I kept the duramax, just sits in my driveway now. I get at least 3 people per week knocking on the door wanting to buy it because it looks bone stock.....when I explain its got $18K in the motor and another $7500 in the trans, they run away. Dual CP3's was a necessity for this truck, how about yours?? I know they are different fuel pressures, jut don't know much about the 6.5's fueling. I hope its in the video.
Dude that is a great sounding project, made all the better since it's a father-son build. I have an 03 LB7, too, that is almost bone stock, and get similar offers. Lookout on here for announcements about a local meetup - would sure be happy to host you and your son. The 6.5 fueling details are in the next episode, but it's basically a 100gph FASS, big mechanical DB2, and high pressure injectors. Just the top end of the normal 6.5 range, and it's enough for 515 lb ft out of the box, with some room to go up.
@@WillometMotorFab I may have to email you to answer a few questions if you dont mind. i have a 1985 M1028 dually with 29K actual miles . ( like mint condition) , The engine is either knocking or a bad flywheel or I heard an injection pump installed wrong can do it .. then I grabbed a 6.5 with turbo - it has the top end rebuilt but the bottom end started knocking so I got it cheap .. I may build it and use it as a non turbo so I dont have to fight getting the turbo to fit in the truck . I just want it to be super dependable - after thet if it messes up it 454 time. Thanks for the videos !!!!!
Very entertaining video, even if it's on a outdated old boat anchor donk. Well enjoyed. Bolt thread safety: 2.5 threads need to extend out of nut to be considered safe and full strength.
I've been around one or two of the 18:1s in trucks running at idle, and they do have a different tone. The injection pump and injectors on this truck are all from the marine catalog. I think the only thing Stanadyne changed was the timing and fuel delivery curve to make it usable in a truck.
We checked with our machine shop before installing, and their counsel was that with all new engine components, we were okay to proceed with studs using the factory torque specs, tightening in 10 lb-ft stages.
The bottom end is the foundation, and we can't get good, reliable power without a strong one. The timing gears and balancing are a vital part of that, in my opinion. The power will come from a big injection pump, very good injectors, and a large turbo (and intercooler) to feed it all. Those details are covered in next week's episode.
Thank you for building one of these. I did it years ago, though not to this extreme, and despite their design flaws I fell in love with the engine. I don't think too many people appreciate them
They’re a fun underdog, and really wake up with just a bit of fuel and boost.
@@WillometMotorFab Indeed. I had mine bored 0.020" over, block decked 0.010, heads milled 0.005, and put an HX35W turbo on the stock manifolds, and ARP head studs. Ran amazing with 22 lbs of boost. Really woke that thing up!
I've heard with stock pistons, 22lbs is the limit.
@@timothydurm4366 That's a good possibility. I don't think I found any information back when I built mine, just adjusted the wastegate actuator until it didn't smoke too bad. 22 lbs made it right. Of course, stock head bolts are out of the race around 14 lbs.
@@WillometMotorFab 2¹
I love seeing people using these. I have a 6.5 599 block in my 1991 FJ80. I pulled it from my 2500HD a couple of years ago. With 180k on the engine, the cylinders still had good cross-hatch. Bottom end looked like new with no visible cracks. I did find cracks between valves on the heads at the rear cylinders. I cleaned it out and put new heads on with ARP studs. I added all of the updated cooling components along with the best fan and clutch I could find. HX35 turbo, 4 inch in, 3 inch straight out. I'm only running 15 lbs of boost. It's a little hazy pulling hills but EGTs are good and it has plenty of power for the Land Cruiser. I can get nearly 20mpg on the highway with 4.10 gears, 35s, and full-time 4wd through the 4l80e.
Perfect! Love my 6.5 also
That time working along side with your Dad as team is priceless. And you have it recorded to boot! It builds such confidence and security to have a master at your side.
You captured my sentiments very nicely. Thank you for this perfect comment.
I think the coolest part about this was the fact that you were able to build the new engine with your dad. That’s the part that you will remember in years to come. I still have great memories of building engines with my dad. I hope to create the same memories with my kids when they are old enough.
Couldn't agree more. This whole thing was important time spent together.
Amen
My first experience with the 6.5L Turbo was while working at a Chevy dealership. We had to pick up a small fleet of trucks we had to sublet for modification. I chose a route back which took me over the back roads with some seriously steep hills. I was amazed at how the truck I drove pulled up the steepest hill, it kept accelerating as we climbed which wasn't an easy task for most vehicles.
I also wound up seeing a fleet of these trucks towed in with blown engines. The truck shop mechanic simply stated much of this was probably due to what he called misuse -- driving it like a gasoline engine, winding out at high RPM or excessively lugging it. Otherwise he insisted it was a good engine. Over the years, with the experiences I've had working in the automotive repair industry, I have to agree; if properly maintained and not overly abused, they can be an efficient and durable engine.
And who doesn't love that old school "clacking" of an old school IDI diesel?
You're right. The IDI sound is a classic one, and that's a really neat experience you had with the 6.5s in factory form.
Great content. Nice shout out to Wells Racing,Dennis is the best in the business.
Most of the 6.5 hate is because people don't understand them. I worked in a fleet with about 100 and went to GM STG training in Burbank CA in 1995. Once I understood the platform I loved it because it was so simple to work on.
Dennis is tops! With their mixed history, I find it understandable that folks might not like them, but like you said, once you know you know.
Nice to see another Suburban with a 6.5 getting souped up! Hopefully someday I can get my hands on a p400 or optimizer myself. I thought about a Duramax swap too, but decided to stick to older and simpler. These engines get a bad rap imo, they came out of the factory with a few issues, but once sorted they're solid as anything imo.
It’s fun making old stuff work well, isn’t it?
I'm an aircraft electrician. The "2 to 3 threads showing" rule is pretty standard when work is being inspected. I tip my hat to you gentlemen.
Thank you sir. I bet you know better than most, details matter.
I've watched quite a few videos. Most of them junk. Your video was top shelf. Thank you for doing it. Happy father's day. From Jacksonville Texas
Thanks man, much appreciated. Happy fathers day to you and yours, too.
I find myself simply watching your video with your father. I miss my father... He was an oil field worker a driller.back when rig were made of wood.
The heart metal drilling rig
Grilling gas well in Paris, Texas. it exploded blew five thousand feet of drill pipe out of the ground.the flame could be seen all the way to Dallas. only one person hurt with a broke leg. Then he became owner-operator trucker.
We're at the age of about 6 years old. He parked his truck at a mechanic shop.
that mechanic talk me much. It was a great man.
Probably one of the best mechanics on planet earth. I cherish my childhood growing up around the older guys.
The young man coming back from vietnam the older guys that work here.
What I'm trying to say watching your video with your father? Brought back great memories, thank you. Happy fourth of july to you and your family.
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@@apaulothegreat1581 I'm truly glad you enjoyed this series we made together. We sure did enjoy spending the time together.
I'm a gas engine guy and have never seen a Detroit engine up this close. It's actually a good lookin' engine. Also didn't realize there is as much aftermarket support as there is.
Most Chevy engines have great aftermarket support because they are always broken and disassembled.
Glad you did all this. Swapping in a Duramax / Allison combo is like tossing an LS into a car. Booorrrriiiinggggg.
I have a 96 Silverado with the 6.2 660 block bored 30 over, Mahle pistons, Scat Crank turned down for a two piece rear main seal, custom wrist pin bushings, ARP studded main and heads, balanced rotating assy. P-400 heads, fluid damper, custom ground cam (not Crane), etc. etc. I too had adult supervision putting it together. Love it.
6.5s...addiction.
It’s a swap that has been done, for sure. This project is never static, so we’ll see where it goes from here.
@@WillometMotorFab Best of luck to you on the longevity of the motor. You've certainly done the foundation work to ensure long years of service.
You and my brother are cut from the same cloth...well different brand of cloth. He's the same way with the 7.3IDI. I helped him rebuild a 92 CC F350 and he became obsessed with the IDI engines. Nice truck and great video!
Indeed. Your brother sounds like a fine fellow. Gentleman and scholar, no doubt.
💪Definitely worth the wait. It's crazy how much time has past by since the 6.2 build. My oldest boy has been eyeing up my old burb, I showed him different parts on it that I fabbed up gosh it must have been 25 or 26 years ago, your name came up when I showed him the rear shock mounts on the frame. Steve's business was just taking off then and in those days information came from word of mouth, Four Wheel magazines, or phone calls to someone for answers when no one was building parts like beefier rear shock mounts for a Suburban. Alot has changed since we both first built our Suburbans. I think its time my boys and and I build a new engine for my Burb too. The 6.5 build, the video, and time spent with your dad, "Priceless". Thanks for sharing this build David, looking forward to the next part. 👍
The years and time spent together is more valuable than any of the trucks or their parts. Don’t they go by in a blink? Go build with your boys, and tag me as you do.
@@WillometMotorFab They sure do. I will.
Can't express just how much I envy you and your dad working together on this project. A really nice engine, and a well put together vid. Nice work.
Thank you very much! The engine is fun, but building with my dad was the real treat.
Working on something with your dad is just the best! Cheers
Absolutely right. Time extremely well spent.
This is some of the best square body content on TH-cam!
Thanks dude! Glad you’re here.
This is the video we’ve been waiting for!
I hope it was worth the wait. I wanted a full year and at least 10K on the clock before this release.
@@WillometMotorFab you bet! Now I’m waiting for the top end 😂 a friend and myself were in the middle of his 6.5 build when yours had that mishap last year. He had quite the time finding head studs. Love watching your videos man. You put out top notch work. Look forward to some of your trips with the suburban too!
I have a 6.5 in 2000 gmc and would love to do all upgrades that you and your dad are doing.
You got one of the last ones! Some of these upgrades can be spread out. So what you can, as you can.
Best editing, music and story telling I have seen in a while. Well done you must be in the trade of visual arts.
So glad you enjoyed this one. I’m just a garage builder doing his best imitation of a video editor.
The execution, tone, and educational approach is how all Automotive blogs should be produced. Amazing work! Automatically hit the like button and subscribed 30 seconds into the video.
I'm glad you're here, and thanks very much for the kind words.
Quality content showing us regular folk that we can do big boy things. Fantastic David!
It’s a good day when a plan comes together. Eager to see how your build plan moves along.
I just got my 6.5 a relatively short time ago, I am excited to see all the inner workings, maybe one day I’ll get an optimizer myself. Not too many good videos of building one of these, always glad to see another.
Nice score on your 6.5! It’s a low production platform nowadays, but still a lot of fun.
Nice work gentlemen. Thoroughly enjoyed seeing something different for once. Just plain cool in my and I’m sure many other “engine guys” perspective. Good stuff! Thanks for sharing!
You bet man. Sure glad you enjoyed it.
You have opened a new motor craz.on the 6.2 and evon the 6.5 ! You guy are one to it!!👍
They're a charming engine, and make all kinds of good sounds.
Glad I found you guys! My daily-daily is an '87 "V10" burb with a 6.2. Really looking forward to seeing how this turns out for you 🇺🇲
It runs like a top! Welcome, and I'm glad you're here. What are you plans for your suburban?
The mental wish-list of mods is way too long to list... you know how that goes, I'm sure. The drivetrain is bone stock with the weenie little 10-bolts, so an axle swap is definitely next. I still haven't made up my mind whether to try and source a Banks sidewinder kit for the 6.2 or go with a 6.5, but this video has me leaning 6.5 now... and probably a 4L80 at the same time
When you said putting the pistons in is meditating I knew I had to subscribe
Glad you're here! Ohm...
What an awesome video! It looks like it was an awesome time building such a beautiful engine. Just excellent!
Great time building with my dad.
Love seeing 6.2 and 6.5’s getting worked. 85 C2500 with a military takeout 6.2
What an awesome video!!! I hope you don’t experience the loss of your pops for a long time but as someone who has recently. The time you have had and the fact that you documented it will be cherished.
Love the IDI 6.2/6.5!
You saw the real video. Time with those we love is what’s most important. Sorry about your pop. We’re never old enough to lose our parents.
As huge fan of 6.2 and 6.5 myself, I love your video. Simply outstanding. I myself put GM 6.2 in my small 19 f. (youtube video). My 96 suburban GM 6.5 turbo with 5 speed transmission with Gear Vendor behind it. I completely understand you excitement. Have nice ride. 6.5 rocks!
Thanks for letting us live vicariously through this fun event ! Very cool !
It was a big project. Glad you were there to enjoy. Part two is tomorrow!
Thank you for sharing this video with us!! I am an absolute fan of the 6.5 ever since my days in the military. I have 2 6.5 diesel trucks today and love them. Great Video
I also thought that only the P400 had a forged crank. This is great news that the Optimizer also has one. Maybe I’ll go that route instead of a Cummins.
It was a surprise to me, too. Totally sealed the deal.
This got me digging and i found a catalogue that shows the newest Optimizer 6500-550 (250 hp, 550 tq) comes with the forged crank, the others still seem to be nodular iron (but maybe that is outdated). good news, i thought that all went away when they stopped making the P400.
@@jamespeart9922 Do you have a link to that article? 250/550 sounds like P400 numbers.
Pretty sure my 07 Optimizer has the cast crank. At least it has the high volume oil pump and piston squirters
I suspect the P400 AMG HMMWV upgrade program didn't gain the budgetary traction some were hoping for. Thus GEP probably had a surplus of forged P400 cranks and said let's stick 'em into to 6500 Optimizers. I have two 2005 Optimizers and both had cast nodular iron crankshafts!
Love the sound of a 6.5 diesel
Love the IDI's myself. Nothing beats the sound and simplicity.
Super simple, right?
2:02 You say " they are heavy "
I disagree, the 6.2 liter diesel was designed to drop in a Chevy pickup, replacing the 454 gasoline. Same weight, same size and footprint. So G.M. did Not Have to redesign the entire truck.
1. 6.2 liter (650 lbs.)
2. Cummins (1150+ lbs.)
3. International 466 (1500+ lbs)
4. Cat 7 liter ( 1500+ lbs)
So.... compared to the other pickup Diesel engines, the 6.2 / 6.5 is much less weight.
That's fair feedback, and your notes match mine about weight and intended use. Relative to those engines, it's is fairly light. I was commenting in terms of engines people often use in place of a 6.2L today - LS, SBC mostly. 650 lbs is heavy compared to the options available today. But, those other engines don't make nearly as many good sounds as the 6.5, so add that as a tick in the "pro" column.
Great to you and Sr. working together. Excellent content and editing as usual.
We work pretty well together. It’s a good time. Thanks for being here.
My dad had a 6.2 in his 36 foot 80ies rv with a 400 turbo. Ran awesome and mid teens mpg. I remember running 87 mph going to Florida. Engine never failed. Probably 80 - 90000 hard miles.
Careful with ARP, they denied my claim because I used quote to much lube. I had 4 head studs stretch on a 4.6 NA mod motor.
The old 6.2s were fuel sippers for sure. The blue suburban got 23ish under my dad's right foot. Good note on ARP, thanks.
I work in an engine shop and we’ve been having problems with their hardware the last few months as well. Real shame, they were the gold standard for so long
@@tl5108 I think they are using a cheaper alloy, my failure made no sense. It was just a cammed 4.6 with 12 to one compression running NA.
Man this is cool. Grew up with 6.5s, dad has a pretty turned up p400. Here because I'm getting ready to do a 6.5 build and put it in my 63 impala with a 4l80e
What a cool video!
Great to hear the Optimizer ships w forged crank. 6.2/6.5 world is getting smaller and smaller and good info and great vid production is highly appreciated!
I was really surprised/relieved when I found out. It’s such a vital update.
You guys did a pretty good job! I build cat diesel engines every month. I still use lubriplate 105 on most surfaces and ultra slick on the cam and lifters.
Hopefully that bottom end holds up. The best 6.5 blocks had the p400 bed plate to keep tue. Mains in place
Thanks dude. Feedback from a pro means a lot. We would have picked up a P400, but the NOS one we found in stock was a bit spendy. Like, beyond reasonable even for a 6.5 nut like me.
You and your dad built a work of art.
Thanks man. We’re very proud of it.
Nice. Just visited Dallas this past week.
Hope you enjoyed our town. Glad you’re here.
Great video, awesome to see you and Pops working together :) And no such thing as labeling too many things when building an engine! Thank you for sharing the small details like tool part numbers. Did you remember to gap your rings before installing? A new set doesn't guarantee proper clearance
Every P400 part is still available except for the block or full engine. The best head upgrade for a 6.5 is to run P400 heads, they have hardened valve seats and will resist cracking better than the stock Optimizer heads or any aftermarket one
Also a word of advice to anyone installing timing gears- Don't assume they are plug and play. There's a recent aftermarket set that have the dots off by one tooth and several engines have had valves hit pistons and trash engines. At a minimum use the old timing chain set dots to align the cam and crank before putting on the gears
Thanks for giving the 6.5 some love, they definitely have a trash reputation because of GM's penny pinching but when built and maintained properly can be a very reliable and easy to work on engine
Awesome work David, the detail, care and passion will guarantee this build is awesome !
Sharing this with your dad is truly awesome, keep up the great work mate, look forward to next episode 👍👍
I appreciate your kind words. It's great to be able to share this with my dad a cool 20 years after we built the 6.2 together.
Welcome mate, reminds me of turning spanners with my dad….and now my son… 😁 well done for capturing real life around our hobby. That, and your story-telling ability is what makes this a unique and awesome channel👌
Helpful helper tip: If you want grease on engine parts that won't be assembled for a while, ATF assembly grease is a great option because it withstands pressure and dissolves in oil. But if you don't have that around, plain old Vaseline petroleum jelly works just fine. It stays in place and readily dissolves in oil. It doesn't offer much resistance to pressure, but as long as your oil pump is working, it should be fine.
Great tip! Our machine shop said something similar about Vaseline. Thanks!
That's funny, my dad told me this same thing about vaseline yesterday when I was messing with a corvette servo for a 4l60e. He rebuilt trans for many years.
Your 'I aim to misbehave' reference was the moment when I realized that I will be subscribing to your channel.
Shiny. Glad you're here.
@@WillometMotorFab Wrenching on and wheeling a square-body Burb with an oil burner, it's all right up my alley.
@@SamwiseOutdoors Good deal man. Hopefully you'll stick around for the Charger and Wagoneer builds. Heap loads of work on them too.
@@WillometMotorFab I'm down!
I love my 6.5 diesel, it has been super reliable and has never left me stranded. It has done everything I have asked it too.
Love it! Hard to ask for more, right?
Great job. Very enjoyable to watch with some very professional looking editing and professional narration. Kinda sound like Mike Rowe there a bit.
Cheers from Brandon Mississippi!
Howdy there Mississippi! Glad you found the channel and enjoyed the video. I'm no pro; just a gearhead doing his best imitation!
@WillometMotorFab Glad I found the channel too! Funny story. One of my best friends growing up in high school acquired a 92 or 93 silverado with a 6.5 shortly after graduation. The thing had a bad compression skip and was blowing a ton of white and blue smoke. Pulled the head on the bank with the dead hole and found a severely scored cylinder. From there we pulled the oil pan, removed the piston from the bad cylinder, honed the crap out of it till all the vertical lines/scoring were gone. (Really should have been bored but he was broke as was I). Put the original piston back in with a new set of rings, buttoned the motor back up and the thing ran like a top! Albeit it always had a little bit of piston slap on that cylinder until it warmed up afterwards. Ended up driving it for 4 years after that going back and forth to Northern Arizona University and it was still running pretty decent when he sold it! 6.5 DDs aren't as bad as people make them out to be.
Always cool to see IDI stuff. Have a hot rod 7.3 in my 92 F250. Always been jealous of the aftermarket for the 6.2 / 6.5 compared to the binders.
Love the old IDIs! I bet that 7.3 of yours is a hoot.
Great working with Your Dad!
The best!
Good production quality and content, surprised you don't have more subs.
Thanks man. Hopefully it's one more with you. Thanks for watching this one.
GM stuff built willomet tough.... there is no muff to tuff for willomet stuff ... that would be a great t shirt or a big sign in of a business... great video 👍👍👍👍
Glad you enjoyed this one. We love tweaking factory stuff to make it work.
Amazing 2 part series! I’ve watched it many times.
Absolutely loved my optimizer in my k5... needed a new injection pump, and probably rebuilt, so I decided to jump on the ls train for power to cost ratio, but man do I miss that oll rattletrap
Hard to deny the LS being a good value move. I get that. It’s part of why I’m using one in my charger.
Didnt want the L in build the crank ! ha ha Love the video man going onto part too. Great audio and video quality
What are the specs on the camshaft? The logger torque cam made by Russ Mathis helps the 6.2/6.5 and 6.9/7.3 IDI Navistar and diesels in general produce more torque and breathe/scavenge better. I believe the reground specs are 261 in/ 253 ex @.006 leaving the LCA the same unless they tightened it up a smidge. I was in the army national guard for 14.5 years, so I've come to love the 6.2/6.5 diesels
It’s a factory cam, and I don’t know the numbers. I sure wish I did. A cam swap has always sounded interesting, especially for off idle torque before the turbo gets in it’s efficiency range.
@@WillometMotorFab the turbo spools up faster and sooner. There's a mechanical engineer that also applied thermal barrier coatings to the heads and pistons and turbo injectors to a set of NA 6.5 heads to speed up reaction time and increased output...he ended up being able to do a serious 30+ feet burnout...and that was naturally aspirated
@@matthewmiller2268 that would be cool to see on video
@@WillometMotorFab Yes I agree David! That would be cool to see on video... I had a 1970 Buick Electra 225 with the 455 big block and I could sit on the accelerator and smoke the rear tires until the engine flooded. I loved that car
Now there's an engine piston company called speed of air that has partnered with United Engine Machine to create and modify pistons with turbulator dimpling and ceramic thermal coatings otherwise known as speed of air pistons. These pistons create extra swirl and tumble in the cylinder also otherwise known as twirl which creates better combustion efficiency and reduced emissions to where the opacity on an LML 6.6 Duramax was 2% before after gas treatment through the DOC, DPF etc. that percentage was just with the piston replacement only and the ECM was left stock.
Nice video. On the gear drive, ive heard from old timers that they can cause a harmonic that kills crank shafts or the nose of the cams in the 6.2 or 6.5. I’m not sure how true that is but just something you might look into just incase. Any 6.2-6.5 stuff I’ve dealt with I’ve talked to Heath about, they had the land speed record with one back in the 90’s I believe.
Thanks very much for watching. I’m glad you enjoyed it. I’ve heard the same about gear drives, and disregard their comments completely. Timing chain slack is far more concerning, especially for these engines with only a few thousandths clearance from valve at piston at TDC. Gears are broadly superior to a chain, though more expensive to install.
I've been waiting for this day to come! Very cool to see a family truck get an engine and your dad is doing it with you.
I am very happy to see you sticking with Detroit power and not going with something more fashionable.
Now if only my CUCV engine would blow up so I can do this 😂
It’s the right engine for the truck, built at the right time with my dad. So glad you enjoyed the video.
Hey David! I love the intro, these are all the faults and...
Theyre my favorite. As a fan of the 6.2 in particular I know how you feel 👍
Imperfect things are beautiful when we appreciate them for what they are. Like you, I'm a fan.
What an incredible video, I think you just made me love the 6.2 and 6.5, engineering that makes things interesting.🤘😁👍🇨🇦
So glad you enjoyed it. Lots of these trucks running around up your way?
@Willomet Motor & Fab never the 4x4 squarbody suburbans, especially with a diesel, but a few regular cab mud trucks on propane and hot rods. No cool diesels up here just bro builds 🤘 haha few cool diesel and gas toyotas tho 👌😁🤣
Looking forward to the next build. Thanks guys.
You bet. See you Sunday for part 2.
25:20 man that dog was so patient
She's so focused on ball. It's all there is.
@@WillometMotorFabi had border collies and it was the same. When the ball was out there wasn't anything else in existence that mattered 😅
Love Suburbans and Detroit Diesels. Great video.
Same here! Thank you so much for watching.
I absolutely enjoyed this ! Thanks for sharing the process!!
So glad!
Excellent video!! Looking forward to the next part of the series.
Thanks man. We'll wrap up the top end next week.
@@WillometMotorFab I am curious. Will you touch on the mechanical injection system and detail about moving the 6.2 fuel system over to the 6.5?
@@brycewilliam1984 I used a fully brand new DB2 and set of short body injectors. I didn't pull anything over from the 6.2, but that pump, lines, and injectors would have swapped over, directly.
@@WillometMotorFab Thanks for the response. How extensively has the DB2 been modified?
@@brycewilliam1984 not at all. It’s straight out of the box. Part number is in the description of the next video.
Wow great channel I can’t believe you only have 7K subs keep up the great work.
One more with you, and I'm glad you're here. Thanks for the support.
Ill have to keep that option in mind if the 6.2 ever goes in my 91 suburban or 85 suburbans. But I have a spare and that long block you started with is 8 grand.
Yeah, it's a fairly expensive platform, and you've really got to be a fan to justify the leap.
Fantastic job at assembling, attention to detail!
Thank you very much! We don’t get to build them often, so it’s great to enjoy the process.
I drove a 99 GMC dually for ten years that had the 6.5 turbodiesel. I loved the engine, although it was the "weak sister" compared to the Cummins, Power Stroke and D-Max. One of the worst things on that engine, and easiest to replace for more power, was the downpipe out of the turbo. It had dings and dents from the factory to allow for clearances, but it was so restrictive the engine couldn't breathe. I installed a Banks aftermarket downpipe that made the engine feel like it had grown a couple of cylinders.
I had always heard the engine was good for 300+ hp when done correctly, but it was said the main bearing caps would shatter (like it looks like your 6.2 did), unless a girdle was added with side bolts into the caps (making each cap cross-bolted with 6 instead of 4 bolts). I notice your new engine doesn't have the girdle, is that due to better metallurgy on your build, or is the girdle really not needed? Awesome build, I sort of wish I still had that old dually.
Yeah, I remember that downpipe on a 96 my dad ran. Terrible execution.
It's the block's main webs that crack. The outermost 10mm bolt holes on up through the cylinders, and area around the oil squirters. The cast iron cranks are also very prone to the two part self-modification phenomenon if either the damper or the dampened pulley fails. If your rebuilding a later gen 6.5L? It's money well spent to have all the sharp edges radiused or feathered near the main journal webs and the bottom of the cylinders. They are ALL stress risers, IE crack starters.
@@xxxxxxxxxx6903 that's part of why the optimizer doesn't have oil squirters, and the later ones come with a forged crank. Pretty happy with those upgrades.
@@WillometMotorFab- I have two 2005 military takeout Optimizers. Neither had forged cranks, and both have oil squirters. The Optimizers squirters aren't the typical bolt on tube assemblies. Rather they are pressed in orifice plugs located on the bottom ledge of the cylinder/main web interface. If you don't run the three hole main journal bearings they're blocked off anyway. They are points of stress-riser (IE, crack points), but hard worked turbo 6.5's greatly benefit from the piston cooling they provide. Helps with the infamous cylinder #7/8 radial cracking phenomenon.
As a ford/international guy I naturally always have hated these engines due to the design/reliability/output and personaly have rebuilt the top end on one. having said that i really enjoyed your video and cant wait to see the finished project!
I’m glad you’re here, and appreciate you watching. I totally get the love/hate thing - pretty normal car folk feelings when it comes to a project!
The ring upgrade is super cool. However, wouldn't the greater sealing second ring cause the top ring to flutter?
I sure don’t think it’ll cause a problem, but I’m relying on total seal’s experience. So far, my oil stays a bit cleaner for longer.
Awesome father and son project. Thats worth it.
Projects done shoulder to shoulder are what this is all about.
@@WillometMotorFab looking forward to video firing it up
@@TheAnonymous1one tomorrow!
Honestly, a 6.2 of a 6.5 is about the only diesel engine I would even consider owning.
They’re charming.
Just a hint put a shot of Power Service in each time you fill tank, just adds some lubricity to the fuel that's been removed helps injectors and injection pump.
Good call. I use Stanadyne blue for the lubricity.
I would love to do all this to my 7.3 , i almost bought a 85 or 86 chevy army pickup with the same 6.5 motor , it was one tough looking truck
I bet a 7.3 would run really strong with just a handful of little upgrades and a big turbo. That would be fun to build.
The 6.5T is a good engine. And taking it to the degree you are really showcases what they can do.
Instead of using a steel screwdriver to get the wrist pin clips in use a brass screwdriver or polymer. Then it wont scratch and you won't have to sand or file burrs.
That’s a great note on avoiding marring the piston. I did have to clean up a bunch of scratches.
This is awesome heard a lot of bad about them I now have a 6.5and love it and I'm fixing to rebuild it could use some advise never fooled with them before
It's a fun and simple platform. Enjoy the process.
Diesels have come a long ways. Used to be a member of the Diesel Page, the motherload of all light duty GM diesel info except the Olds 4.3l and 5.7l, but was holding back long enough until the right deal for 03 Cummins with the 6 spd came around and never looked back. Learned my GM diesel lessons on a 5.7l Custom Cruiser. Heath Diesel and Kennedy Diesel used to be the go to shops for all 6.2/6.5 aftermarket developments. What a rip off finding a $9k long block not being balanced to the 9th, but may be considered within spec. I don't know. You must have another $1.5K in it building it the right way. Anyway, the 92/93 MY 6.5l were considered the best years before GM switched to the electronic drive train management. Great video production for my entertainment pleasures and a like and subsripe for keeping those family heir looms on the road and keeping dad busy. Somehow I do miss that Texas drawl, though ... hm...?
I remember TDP - that's the way back machine! I too used to spend a fair bit of time on there. You'll find me in complete agreement in my disappointment about the engine having imbalanced rods. I get why that might be the case - low RPM maybe doesn't "need" balancing - but it was a let down all the same. And yeah, I did spend a bit more at the machine shop and additional components (you'll see in the next video) getting it how I wanted. Thank you for being here, and I appreciate the comment.
Hello, I have a question, is there any way to obtain a forged crankshaft for a 6.2 from around 83? I have one that I have to rebuild and if there is any way to get a better forged one because I don't want to have the risk of it breaking and having to throw away the block because here in Uruguay the blocks have VIN numbers and you have to do a lot of procedures to change the engine and they are not possible either, thank you and sorry for the inconvenience and my English
The forged stuff is only for one piece rear main seals, and pretty much all the 6.2s were two piece.
The forged crank being available makes these a viable option for the first time.
Couldn't agree more. That's what sealed it for me.
Nice build man, thanks for showing it! Would you mind sharing the part number of the optimizer longblock with the forged crank, maybe here or in your next video...
Gladly. I’ll dig up those part numbers.
That's a GEP12562486 👍
@@WillometMotorFab Sweet. Thanks so much, I'm in the same boat, love the 6.5 and was so bummed when I finally had $ for a p400 and they discontinued it, but a forged crank seals the deal.
I had a 6.5 in a suburban for over 10 years. Despite what the internet says, it was a great engine. Has some upgrades and worked great. Now i have a 5.9 cummins in it and would never mess with a 6.5 again. The cummins turns your truck into a real truck. I understand wanting to keep your truck original though but damn pouring that kinda money into a 6.2 seems crazy. A 12v will make more power without doing anything to it
That's cool that you've had and enjoyed each platform in the same truck.
@@WillometMotorFab oddly enough they both get about the same mileage. Long live suburbans! Great video btw i guess i didnt mention that.
Unfortunately the 1179Lbs Cummins 5.9L is just a wee bit heavier than the 780Lbs 6.5L. And as much as the Dodge steering systems just loves all that weight, so too will a 400 series Suburban. 🤪
Now if you want to explore an interesting option look into the rather hush inline-6 GEP 3.5L Styer marine mono-block engine they have with the standard SAE bell housing bolt pattern. It was designed to bolt up to a 4L80E! Off the top of my head, I remember 255HP/520Lbs-Ft Tq. Oh and BTW, the mono-block means the head is part of the block, IE no head gasket!
@@xxxxxxxxxx6903 guess you never put a plow of your truck eh? It weighs more thrn the difference in engines. Your talking like 300 lbs lmao. My 2500 holds up just fine to the extra weight. Not sure what point your trying to make but my cummins with compound turbos makes like 3 times the power whatever motor your saying i should have used makes. Lol
This thing sounds so good
Thanks dude.
Any suggestions on building a 6.5 for longevity, not performance? I'm building one now. So far I have a SCAT crank, and MAHLE pistons that are 0.030 over. I'm going to sandblast the pistons and get the Cerakoted, because 3 of my pistons have one coat (like the one in the video), and the other 5 have a coat that extends all the way to the edge of the piston. I'm waiting on rings, but I ordered ductile iron with plasma-moly face. I also ordered new bearings (main and rod), but they're not here yet. Once I have my order, I plan on getting harmonic balancer + flex plate so that I can get the block bored and the rotating assembly balanced (I need the balance + flex plate because the engine is external balance). I also ordered a torque plate, so that when the block is bored, I'll have the most perfect cylinder possible (aside from hot hone, but it's a diesel, not a formula1 car). I'm especially going with a torque plate because the 6.5 tends to deform significantly when the head bolts are replaced with studs, which is my plan. I also plan on boosting the turbo from factory 7 PSi to about 10 PSI, maintaining stock injectors. My goal is not an engine with 300+ HP, I'm happy with the 190 stock produces, I just want something that will last me 300k+ miles. My truck is a 1993 K3500, the trailer I tow weighs about 3,800 empty, and weighs up to 14,000 when loaded. I tow for about 190 miles (380 miles round trip). Anything else I should consider changing?
The engine build we have here is good for what you’re describing. I’d suggest two things:
- ditch the factory turbo, yesterday. An HX35 or 40 is the ticket for efficiency without high exhaust pressure.
- run the big DB2 with the big injectors, but leave it at the 250hp/515tq setting until you test it with the load.
check out quadstar tuning man
@@powerstar2363, my engine has a DB2, mechanical injection, not much tuning I can do to an engine that doesn't have a computer or electronics. It has a crank sensor, but it's for the transmission module, no engine or powertrain module. But now that I think about it, I suppose I could advance the pump by a few degrees, thus advancing the injection timing, thanks
Yes, just buy my Dodge 3500 Cummins/Aisin .
The Aisin transmission is the same as the 4500 and 5500.
Remember, when you see a car hauler pass you hauling 3 or 4 cars, that is the Aisin.
I tow a 12,000 pound fifth wheel travel trailer, using cruise control and coming Down Mountains using cruise control and Exhaust Brake (factory).
My Dodge pull my 12,000 pound trailer, like it has on trailer behind it. Really!
Sell what you got, buy my Dodge.
I have had all of them
1. 7.3 Ford
2. 6.5 chevy
3. 6.0 Ford
4. 6.4 Ford
5. 5.9 Dodge
6. 6.7 Dodge
The 6.7 Cummins is head and shoulders above the rest.
Also have a Cummins 6.7 with the factory Allison transmission from a Ford F-650. That was laid on it's side, in a Ice ❄ Strom.
That 6.5 will not pull 14,000 pounds and last. Also the transmission will not last.
Do yourself a favor, buy my low mileage Dodge 3500
@@BillWilliams-p4o, I sort of have a 6.7 as well. Originally it was equipped with a 5.9, I just swapped it with the first gen 6.7. I just don't drive it much, less than 50 miles per year. I like my 6.5 because it doesn't draw much attention from DOT. It's a regular cab, long bed, regular tires, de-badged and ,SRW with factory (and severely faded) paint, plus a lot of body rust. Also bumper pull, no gooseneck. I know gooseneck is ideal, but it draws more attention from DOT. The year I got it, I picked up some wood for heating my home. I pulled up with a trailer and asked for a cord of wood, which weighs about 2 tons, depending on moisture content. Guy looked at me like I was crazy. He looked at me dead in the eye and said, "you'll never make it home!" At the same time, they just loaded up a Dodge Dakota with the same amount, about 2 tons (4,000 lbs). The Dodge Dakota looked bigger than mine, with the extended cab, the lift, and mud tires, but I figured that the 8 lugs on my truck should of been a give away that it's made to tow substantial weight. That experience, me buying firewood and being told that my truck is too small, is what sold me on using that truck for towing without drawing much attention.
Thank you for taking time and effort to make this video . Your knowledge and attention to detail is really important to all the GM Detroit Diesel guys out there. I have a question, I thought the P 400 is the better engine than the Optimizer 6500 , or am I mistaken? Any thoughts/ opinions and information I would appreciate . Thanks again.
The P400 has that girdle, which is pretty nice and fulfills the original Detroit deep skirt design. But, they don’t make the P400 anymore (as of this writing). Other than that, the optimizer with a forged crank is really close to the same thing, and definitely up to the 550ish lb ft a big DB2 or well tuned DS4 will throw at it.
Thank you for the reply and information.
Great Vid Dave, best part? You working with your Dad!
I think so too. Thanks for being here man.
great job with filming i want to do total seal rings in one of mine some day
They’re a neat upgrade. Oil stays a bit cleaner for longer.
@@WillometMotorFab ya that’s my main reason my duramax and Cummins does get black till it’s ready to change it
when the 6.2 self dissembled was there a turbo installed? how much boost was it set for? theres limits to boost on the higher compression 6.2 engines, 21 to 1 if memory serves me...add 8 pounds of boost it will live add 10 pounds plus then you get a grenade....
There’s a whole video about the detonation. It was turbo’d and intercooled, and boost was consistent within the safe zone of sub-15.
If you dont have a thread cleaning tap, i use a cutoff wheel and cut a couple slits up the length of a correct bolt. Hit it with a wire brush, Then run a nut up it to make sure theres no chunks in the threads. It will do a pretty good job of getting crap out.
That’s my favorite trick for cleaning up those threads. If you look closely, I made a tool very similar to what you described.
I love the 6.5, but I like the NA 6.2 better. Reliable (if you do a few things) and fuel efficient. Those are the two things I like in a diesel. Reliability and fuel economy.
I am in DFW too, well Keller. My son and I did something similar with a 2001 LB7 duramax. Bought my best friend's truck from his widow, saved it as a project for my son and I to do. We finished it during covid. Made the mistake of installing a Wagler AFO cam. Its super fast but basically acts like a 2-stoke dirt bike with a crazy powerband that hits at 65-70mph, had to buy my son a Silverado SS and I kept the duramax, just sits in my driveway now. I get at least 3 people per week knocking on the door wanting to buy it because it looks bone stock.....when I explain its got $18K in the motor and another $7500 in the trans, they run away. Dual CP3's was a necessity for this truck, how about yours?? I know they are different fuel pressures, jut don't know much about the 6.5's fueling. I hope its in the video.
Dude that is a great sounding project, made all the better since it's a father-son build. I have an 03 LB7, too, that is almost bone stock, and get similar offers. Lookout on here for announcements about a local meetup - would sure be happy to host you and your son. The 6.5 fueling details are in the next episode, but it's basically a 100gph FASS, big mechanical DB2, and high pressure injectors. Just the top end of the normal 6.5 range, and it's enough for 515 lb ft out of the box, with some room to go up.
This is better than meditation.
Ohm….thanks bud, and glad you’re here.
im am looking at doing this same build soon. if you dont mind rough numbers what did this build cost.
I’ll go into more detail in a future video, but it was around 13K all in. Engine alone was about 9K. That’s a real number. No sponsors.
Very kool video, In the future going to build a 6.2 or 6.5 this helps.
You’ll love it when you do. Enjoy that process!
@@WillometMotorFab I may have to email you to answer a few questions if you dont mind. i have a 1985 M1028 dually with 29K actual miles . ( like mint condition) , The engine is either knocking or a bad flywheel or I heard an injection pump installed wrong can do it .. then I grabbed a 6.5 with turbo - it has the top end rebuilt but the bottom end started knocking so I got it cheap .. I may build it and use it as a non turbo so I dont have to fight getting the turbo to fit in the truck . I just want it to be super dependable - after thet if it messes up it 454 time. Thanks for the videos !!!!!
Very entertaining video, even if it's on a outdated old boat anchor donk. Well enjoyed.
Bolt thread safety: 2.5 threads need to extend out of nut to be considered safe and full strength.
It really is old technology in this engine. Most of this stuff was developed in the 40s and 50s.
@@WillometMotorFab The biggest difference, yours is a 4-stroker.... lol
Cool I also own a 1992 k20 6.5 Detroit Diesel, I am located in Greenville TX
Greetings, fellow Texas diesel head!
Also .... the 6.5 liter is used in the marine service. Great reliability and lower fuel useage.
But.... lower compression and has a different sound.
I've been around one or two of the 18:1s in trucks running at idle, and they do have a different tone. The injection pump and injectors on this truck are all from the marine catalog. I think the only thing Stanadyne changed was the timing and fuel delivery curve to make it usable in a truck.
Studs on your main caps? Did you get your line bore checked with the studs?
We checked with our machine shop before installing, and their counsel was that with all new engine components, we were okay to proceed with studs using the factory torque specs, tightening in 10 lb-ft stages.
You showed building bottom end stronger. And balancing and all. But where does the duramax power equivalent come from. Injectors ,turbos or what ???
The bottom end is the foundation, and we can't get good, reliable power without a strong one. The timing gears and balancing are a vital part of that, in my opinion. The power will come from a big injection pump, very good injectors, and a large turbo (and intercooler) to feed it all. Those details are covered in next week's episode.