Setting Up a PATCHBAY in a HOME STUDIO | Audio Accessories
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Who's got a patchbay in their home studio? Pros vs cons?? Let me know.
If you don't have a lot of hardware and the need to change your setup, a patchbay is not needed, a fixed and directly wired configuration will be perfect, however, if you really want a patchbay, I will recommend you a patchbay with an option to switch between normal, half and thru (like the switchcraft or another model)
Excellent channel !!!!!! waiting for you to come for you next video !!
I've got an ancient TS/RCA Tascam patch bay i'm using for now since I only have a couple pieces of outboard gear.
This audio accessories have the switches on the back for all 48 patch points as well. I love it, it's like having the back of all your gear in one spot.
Not only does it make you feel the significance of each step in the chain but, it is the most efficient way to use analog gear in the studio. I will say that the fastest way I expanded my outboard gear (and made my patchbay well worth it) was DIY, which I would love to see you get into. I've seen it on a couple of your studio tours and built one myself but I think you would get a lot out of the Hairball audio 1176! takes up 2u as well...
@@AndrewMasters I also added a patchbay.... that means more equipment to come and more trouble with my wife !!!!😅😅😅
Patchbays are so underrated.
Even if you have only 2 or 4 preamps in your interface a patch bay would be beneficial
Totally agree
Absolutely! Also the hands on approach to using analog gear vs plugins at times can be so much faster and effective when tracking or mixing.
Check out Flock Audio's patchbays. WORTH EVERY DOLLAR!
Compressor with send and return for both of the channels and you’re all the sudden 6 to 8 cables deep with just one device. Imagine someone being stupid enough buying three of those instead of a digital mixer, which has the routing, effects and the compressors built-in 🙃 Nowadays analog setups are like running a 17” CRT , you really have to want to do it 😂
Quick clarification, because patchbays are confusing:
- Normalled connections will flow from top to bottom unless you break the connection by patching.
- Half-normalled connections will behave like normmalled, but will mirror/split the signal when you break the connection during patching.
- Through connections (if your patchbay supports it) simply passes the jack from the back to the front and vice-versa. Commonly available in 1/4" TRS patchbays.
Yeah of course I misspoke, I wired first 24 channels fully normalled
@@AndrewMasters All good, I knew what you meant. Just wanted to share with everyone else since there are tons of questions around patching on other videos.
@@DansDrums Thank you... I appreciate it. Though I am confused about "mirroring". What is it like sending in both a dry & wet signal/parallel inputting?
I hope that @Andrew Masters will add an update to clarify this.
@@sekritskworl-sekrit_studios In half-normal, the signal is essentially split so you can route it to outboard gear, but the original signal continues to flow. That way you can blend the amount of processed signal into the chain without compromising the original source, or re-route the processed signal to another input while maintaining the source. Honestly, half-normalled scenarios are for more advanced routing while normalled and through connections are the most common use cases, especially in home studios.
@@DansDrums Thank you SO very much!!
That was , by far, the clearest and most concise tutorial on the installation & operation of a patch bay that I've ever seen!
Thanks a Million!
RBO
Rock Ranch Media
Shreveport, LA
i just recently got a patch bay for my home studio! I work with a laptop and a focusrite 6i6. I love to use my tape machines as a preamp into my daw, but i also living recording to then using my daw as a preamp. My patchbay allows me to switch this out as well as switch out the effects send for any physical mixers easily. I also have a reel to reel hooked up.
I have a patch bay (TT connectors) I bought a while back and have yet to put it to work as I haven’t had my studio in one place long enough to utilize it to its fullest, I do find it very helpful you sharing that you are moving in this direction and look forward to seeing how helpful it makes your workflow.
Thanks again for these helpful videos!!
It's such a relief for me to have it in my set up. Glad this is helpful!
This is the first patchbay video that clicked for me...Finally!
Andrew, you should put the SSL controller in front of you in a custom shelf, I bet it would make a difference in you workflow, compared to having it on the side.
Andrew Thanks for your Bitchin Videos, you've saved my company from Extinction
Ah man. Running MORE cables.... I just went through that fun experience adding 2 x behringer mic spliterrs (8 inputs into 16 outputs each: for a total of 16 inputs and 32 outputs) into my mixer rack. That way I can send a completely untouched raw signal with the 2nd output set to another mixer for say a front of house mixer. While being in control of my IEM mix.
So many cables....
Sweet setup. That's a DESK.
I would suggest going full normal for your mic inputs. You want the back connection to break when you connect to another preamp. You could end up blowing a condenser mic if phantom power is activated on both mic preamps the signal is feeding on a half normal patch bay. You could potentially do damage to a ribbon mic that way also. Having phantom on one of the preamps. Most modern ribbons might not be affected but an old one could.
It is a full normal, I misspoke!
Nice looking Patchbay. Mine is all behind the desk!! Need to Invest in one but there's always something I want more at the time so never end up getting one
Great video Andrew. I just got my first patchbay today so this comes handy. But I want to call out there is high danger of damaging your pres with this configuration when working with 48v on condenser mics, or at least that’s what I think to be the case.
Let me explain: You need to be 100% sure your 48v is turned off whenever you are plugging in or out your patch cables, because otherwise it will short cut.
XLR cables do not have this problem, and that’s the reason why mic inputs are mainly xlr, but trs and other type of connectors can create problems if dealing with voltage.
The way I am planning to set my patchbay is having the mic inputs going straight into whatever preamps I use without going through the patchbay, I have 16 mic inputs but I don’t have 16 external preamps, so I can leave it hardwired and still be able to use all of my different preamp types.
Then is the line level outputs of my preamps what will go through the patchbay so I can route from there to different compressors or outboard effects.
So basically I’ll use the patch bay to handle line level signals only, because I know I am dumb enough to screw up my gear if these plugs are handling voltage.
Let me know if you have any thoughts on this. Am I right? Or am I overthinking stuff?
I’m personally not worried about it because I’ve been using patchbays like this for 11 years and haven’t had this issue - however I will say use caution. I’m certainly not giving any advice here just showing how I got things going. I did misspeak on how the bay is normalled, my mic lines (first 24 patch points are set to “full normal” not “half”. I knew how they were functioning but not the term haha. Always use caution.
So cool! I’ll give you a link after I get my Patchbay set up! 🙌🏼
Great job explaining a fairly complex process in an easy to understand way :) Awesome video!
Thanks!
Patchbays confuse me, but this video explained everything really well! Looking forward to all the epic studio gear videos you have coming up
Awesome, thank you!
Greg IS the man!
nice video - best wishes for your success
Awesome video man! Looking forward to see how your gear collection grows and how your patchbay develops over time! Keep up the great content!
Appreciate it!
Love it, can you do an update version for your patch bay layout for your latest setup? Thanks.
There's also 1/4 inch longframe patch bays..
Which look like jumbo sized TT patch bays..
They are the pro level patch bays you'll see in broadcast studios
and some traditional music studios that spent the money.
Thanks this helps
Happy to hear!
Dude.... THANK YOU. I really needed this video. I really appreciate it!
I have 9 Samson 1/4" TRS patchbays. I numbered each patchbay on both ends from 1 to 9 but did not labeled them. With a bunch of cables in place, reading the labels is quite a task. Instead, I labeled every piece of equipment with the patchbay number and corresponding insert point.For instance, if I have a 4 channel compressor on patchbay 3, insert points 8 to 12, the label would read (3) 8-12
Well done sir in explaining this complex setup scenario, and good luck for the future.
This is the video we all needed. I always just hard patch everything cause patchbays give me a headache.
haha dude same here. I actually misspoke on one part, the front half of my patchbay is set to "full normal." I said "half normalled" but of course. I'm wrong haha. Works great! The lingo always screws me up though.
Reeealy want a patchbay for my studio
It's an excellent investment that makes adding new gear really fun.
Great video about your project. Nice gear!
Thank you for sharing this video. I'm in the market for a new audio interface. I'm interested in something that's upgradable and able to link together like the UA Apollo. I've always wanted to know more info on how to use the db25 connection, spdif, and optical out/ins on interfaces.
Awesome video brother! I’m curious what kind of floor box / snake and how it hooks into your patchbay and apollo interface and how it all links together. Many thanks for sharing!
I have two floor boxes. One 16 channel box and one 8 channel box. They're stage box to XLRs. Those run to the patch bay where they connect to the patchbay with XLR to DB25 cables. At the patchbay I can route everything around however I need to.
@@AndrewMasters I think I understand… Floor-box to XLR, then snake XLR to DB25 into patchbay, then snake DB25 out of patchbay to XLR into Apollo preamps. Let me know if this sounds correct. Thank you so much!
Curious how you routed all connections to and from it. Do you have a routing diagram or sketch?
Clear explanation, Andrew, thank you. Do you switch off the phantom before changing patch, for fear of blowing a ribbon? Or does it have some kind of protection?
Thanks in advance.
Omar Hayes
You also have Ghielmetti Patchbays. Maybe interesting to do a comparison!
Bro, where did you make your rack covers with your logo? So cool. by the way your logo is great too.
I wish we could see the microphone input buckets
Patchcad. For pc only. Works great for labeling
You may hear a lot of advice about not running phantom power through a patchbay - theyre half right. The problem is with a 1/4" or TT patchbay, if you plug or unplug with phantom power on, you will almost surely damage the mic since contacts of the tip and ring brush against their wrong counterparts on the socket sending 48v to the wrong pins.
With an XLR connection, the pins go into their own respective receptacle which makes them much safer - though I still wouldn't yank a cable with phantom on.
As long as you patch carefully you'll be fine.
More things ,like this, hands on at home
Great to hear - this was fun and I am working to do at least one of these a week.
How do the like the SSL Controller??
That's going to be the next video! I love it.
@@AndrewMasters
I can’t wait!!
I tried it out with Ableton on Big Sur and didn't work properly. Had to return
@@bvrbvs
I’m using logic and Mojave.
I have a noob ass question that’s been holding me back, how does the phantom power travel from the mic pres to the snake?
Hi Andrew, I have the Apollo x8P. Would I be best going from my API lunch box with 2x Neve 1073's, 2x SSL Six and 2x API pres. Would I be Best going from the LB-Apollo via DB25-DB25, DB25-XLR or XLR-XLR. Thanks in advance. I am thinking of maybe getting a Switchcraft patchbay if that would make things easier?
Why are TT patch bays so expensive compared to 1/4"? Thanks for the video!
Patching from an half normal output does not break the normal. It breaks the normal if patching into the input (in this case the bottom row mic pre in under neath the tie line), or if it’s fully normal.
Really helpful! 🔥
Hey thanks!
I want to know how to set up monitoring system so that musicians can hear themselves, pros cons of the different options etc and set up
One of the systems like the p16s or the hearback pros would probably be easiest. Connect 8 line in channels from monitoring system to patchbay and then patch from the line outs of the source.
That UF8 does look sexy. Whish it was fully supported by Reaper...
So the mics go to the Apolo then you DB25 them out to the patchbay which then routes out to internal/external pre's? Just trying to make sense of it all. 😅
Everything goes to the patchbay first, then you can move things around how you prefer. lol. It's like having the back of all of the gear in two single rack spaces.
Really helpful and insightful video
Thanks!
@Andrew Masters Thanks for the video, two questions for you. 1. Do you have links to that mic stand setup you have on your ceiling above the kit? I'm interested in doing a similar thing 2. Can you shed some light on routing phantom power through your patchbay? I've found a lot of confusing documentation online about the topic. Some articles say it's a terrible idea, others say it's fine, some say it isn't possible, some say it works but isn't recommended. I'd tried doing this on my own setup (with an arturia 8 pre) and it didn't work at all
Hmm, I'd really like to see the fast part at normal speed. I wonder if I can find a video like that?
Hey, I never used a patchbay before, but I have a question. You said you go from Mic>Patchbay>Mic Pre>Interface. What if the mic needed a 48v? Wouldn't you need to connect it to the Pre first then the Patchbay? I want to make a patchbay, but this was a question I had.
Thanks! Great video bro!
As you well know my particular dream/plan is to build myself a hybrid old skule analog/ contemporary digital studio as MY personal composer/producer/content creator studio so a patchbay wil be an essential and unavoidable center point of such a studio.
The combination of an old school 32 channel analog mixer,- with outboard proccessing and effects unit racks combined with the multitude of insert and output point of such a mixer,- hooked up to quality AD/DA converters and then taken into the box,-renders the optimal workings of such a system including also a patchbay an absolute neccessity.
As you put it:
Having to find youself crawling around underneath your setup in a dimly lit studio just to hook up yet another preamp, compressor or whatever ancient 16bit late80s/ early 90s bit of rack kit you´ve fallen in love with is NOT the pinnacle of music production professionalism when your customers are paying you for your sevices by the hour,- so I absolutely feel you on this one, my man.
Gonna make a lot of things much easier.
Congrats.
Haha heck yeah! I feel the same. Thanks Ulf!
Go look at Flock Audio patchbays - your dream has been realized and though a little pricey, I can tell you its worth every nickel!
So you hook a mic up directly to the 1/4 jack ?
When the patch bay is half normalled, putting a jack into the top row / output, does NOT break the connection, it splits the output. Only when plugging into the lower row/ input you break the connection.
To break on either jack, you need a fully normalized patch bay.
Great show otherwise 👍🏻
Show us your patch bay spreadsheet.
Have you checked out the Flock Audio Patch? Seems like a gamechanger when it comes to ease of use. Then again, I am a newbie to Patchbays and don't own one... yet... Greetings from Austria!
Nice vid, thanks. What patch cables do you use?
What is a "Tie Line"?
The redco patchbay has a spreadsheet template that should work for that patchbay as well. It’s on the product page on the redco website
My dude! That’s what I’m looking for.
@@AndrewMasters no problem! Make sure you follow the printing guide on macs. You have to print it at something like 92% size instead of full size. I forget but it says it in the document
I'm having trouble coming out of my patch bay (DF AUDIO Minibay 2) and into my mic pre's on my apollo x4. The line level signal is great, but out of the patch bay, I'm using a TRS to dual XLR cable to go to the apollo pre and i'm getting terrible static and almost no actual signal from the mics. Am I use the correct type of cable?
Is it allowed to run Phantom power through TT cables?
what do you think of the Lewitt 540 Subsero? Should I upgrade to this mic from the Lewitt 440 pure ???
You mentioned coz it is half normalled it no longer goes straight to the interface... Wouldn't that be full normal?
Half normal I believe... splits signal to original path as well as where you patch.
All are normal? Inputs & outboard?
If you had the I/O’s on the rear of your hardware patched but then used the input on the front of that same unit how will that play out? Is there a way to know if its safe or if it will work without risking some damage?
So let me get this straight…
Snake goes directly into the 8 inputs
Patch bay connected in/out via dsub
Is that correct? By connecting the Apollo to the patch bay via dsub it automatically links the inputs to the patch bay? Is there more to it?
Everything connects to the patch bay via a DB25 snake (8 channels per snake). Once all is connected and labeled. You can patch signal around between everything that is connected.
@@AndrewMasters ok. Sorry for the confusion. What’s on the other side of the xlr’s that are patched into the inputs of the x8p?
Andrew. Love the channel. I have the x8p as well and by far this video was the best I have seen on the install. However I have a question. The xlr mic pres on the x8p are connected via DB25? Or are the x8p pres going DB25 to the line out 1-8 on the x8p? Then DB25 to the patch bay? How are you sending 48v to the condenser mics on the snake if connected to the patchbay? Or are you tracking directly to the x8p and other ADAT inputs from the snake and then mixing from the patchbay as inserts to the DAW?
Thanks Frank. Everything goes to the patchbay first. Wall panel 16 channels (XLR-DB25) to patch bay. Half normalled, underneath that row are the x8p mic pre inputs, x8p to patch bay (XLR-DB25).
maybe a dumb question - how do you use mults interfaces simultaneously? i keep reading that is not possible on pc and on mac you have to create an "aggregate audio device" ?
with thunderbolt cable
Side note: those custom rack cover panels are awesome Andrew! How did you make them?!
Thanks dude, no I didn't make them. Someone who subs to the channel sent them to me as a gift! They're awesome.
Hows that SSL? Ive been using an S1 at work, but think I wasn't to go with the Uf8.
Sorry to correct you. But In half normal, When you insert a cable in the output, the connection does not break, It still flows. You are describing a normalled situation.
Nailed it
@@AndrewMasters great videos by the way man love the studio tours and stuff. Keep it up
Where r ur mics connected to?
wait, no link to buy the patchy you are talking about ?
Email Greg, he will get you a better deal then any link I give you.
Nice Andrew, where'd ya get the world map wallpaper?
I think it came from wallpapercave.com
Video coming on the control surface?
Yes sir!
@@AndrewMasters very cool!!
Hi I wanted to ask you what do you think about software patching ? I remove all my patch bay.. and use Logic external inserts.... all my outboard are on motu 24 AI AO with some ssl adat / analog converters.. then so each song has its own config of inserts... so I can reload without repatching all;. including some midi / usb config.. I guess you will say to many analog / digital conversion for nothing ?
Where’s the patch bay spreadsheet?
This isn’t a home studio. It’s a studio that you live in…
Nice vid man, thanx! I'm really curious about routing (playback) through external gear (compressor) and than recording that same playback again in the daw. This means you can tweak a 'dry' signal and re-record it with external efx. Tried it (ok, without a patchbay) but never had any success. Could you show maybe the whole process in upcoming vids? Very interested! Keep it up!
If you know your equipment you don’t need no spread sheet to tell you where is where
Be extremely careful with your patch bay! I's just a matter of time before you, or someone, accidentally connects a line level output to a mic level input (and blow your mic pre). NEVER mix line levels and mic levels in the same patch-bay!!! If you feel the need tp patch you mic level signals. USE SEPARATE BAYS!
I've hardwired my mic inputs on my mic-pres to the mic inputs in the tracking area. If I, for some reason, need to move a mic from one mic-pre to another, I switch them at the inputs. That way, there's no way mic and line levels can possibly meet.
Think that it's too cumbersome to walk over and move an XLR plug? Come on, how lazy can you be?
#RestoreTheSnyderVerse #MakeTheBatfleckMovie
You fast forwarded through the ONLY part I actually wanted to watch...
wait........what?
Now I'm even more Confused!
Can someone please just connect the dragon patchbay step by step without just say I put the output and mic preamp to this or to that without specific clarity!!! Dummy this process up by connecting a mic to the patchbay and show how to get the dang thing to work without missing a little step so it is understood by novice viewers! I truly believe it can be done without even talking and explaining...
For the love of .. from above.. just connect the 3 parts together and show that it works in a simple spree of individual videos...PleAsE!
I'm dumb! Un"DuMb-me please...
Dude love your studio tours. However you made three mistakes in this video. Our new trainee started with us last week. Sent him off to research patchbays on his own. At lunch he was watching your video on the subject. Looking v confused he turned to me for help. We sat down together and watched your video from the top. No wonder he was baffled. You make three mistakes while explaining the logic behind patch bays. One was so simple to correct it would’ve taken moments to implement. After the third mistakes I was compelled to find a more useful resource for the newest member on our team. You’re old enough to sort out the mistakes but sill help you by pointing at the first: There’s 3 ways most patchbays can be configured not 2. Granted some models don’t include a ‘ thru’ to save money but thr standard is norm, partial norm / thru. D - can do better
this is one thing I can never wrap my head around. I understand the logic behind it but the setup I just don't get it