The Elder Scrolls Lore: The Underking
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- The Underking is a mysterious being who has multiple possible identities. He is described as an undead lich of sorts, and was possibly once a mighty and powerful wizard, possibly of all time. He is also responsible for many of the events occuring during the Warp in the West, an event that has forever changed the Iliac Bay, and possibly all of Tamriel. In this video I talk about who the Underking may possibly be, and also suggest many differing theories on the matter. I talk about his origins and his demise, as well as his accomplishments under his previous appellations and his final appellation.
Sources of Information used in this Video:
Since this video had a lot of Sources used, unfortunately TH-cam does not let me fit them all in the description as it is too long of a description, however I have created a viewable Google Doc that includes all my sources in case you are interested!:
docs.google.co...
Music Used in this Video: Demise of the Ritual by Ko Otani, Shadow of the Colossus Soundtrack
• Video
~Consider joining my Discord Channel for some fun! This is where you get to make requests for future videos, or talk to some other fans about the lore!
/ discord
![[UNCUT] “บอสณวัฒน์” ลากไส้!! ใครหนุนหลัง "แม่ตั๊ก ป๋าเบียร์" I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ I 30 ก.ย. 67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QlD7mU2KKRk/mqdefault.jpg)
"Each event is preceded by prophecy. But, without the hero, there is no event."
-Zurin Arctus, The Underking
I like the idea of Zurin Arctus becoming The Underking after creating The Totem of Tiber Septim and The Mantella and then trying to stop Tiber Septim from abusing The Numidiam. It paints him in a different light.
Yeah
i prefer the one where zurin and wulfarth merged together and became the underking. as the mantella could only hold the soul of one being not two
Imagine, if you would, a soul gem. A very specific soul gem, made to hold a very specific kind of soul. The soul of a Shezarrine. Then, within proximity of the gem, two Shezarrines slay one another. They’re souls begin to enter the gem, but it was only meant to hold a single soul. So as a result, when the gem is full, two half-souls remain, attempting to create some form of semblance with each other. The abominable spirit the two create then enters the only body capable of housing it. One cursed with undeath. Thus the Underking was born.
Beautiful explanation
@L1qu1d S1lenc3r I think all three involved were Shezzarines, and I think both Arctus and Wulfharth got trapped inside the mantella, and after it's retrieval they joined Hjalti's ascended soul, thus Talos the god was born. There's a reason for Talos' Avatar being named Wulf.
and when the third part was added, talos came to be, mantling lorkhan and filling the missing god's space
I love it, I really love it. it sets up the destruction of the Numidium nicely
@@theskoomazingdunmer8749 hjalti wasn't a shezzarine
By the Nine. This knowledge, is worthy of an Elder Scroll.
Nice work
"Nice"? This is VERY good work.
@@Mohrlaen I like your enthousiasm
Lady of scrolls your content is amazing
Nothing like a good lore video after finishing a session of ESO!
I always find it funny how the more you explore the lore, the worse "Heroes" like Tiber Septim seem.
I would almost say that Talos was just a villain who won.
Pretty much. Tiber septim was a man who definitely accomplished great things, personally I don't thing the price was worth the outcome though and especially if you learn the methods he used you begin to see that he was definitely no "great" man. Ysgrammor was worse than Tiber septim in my opinion. Ysgrammor was a genocidal maniac in my personal opinion.
Immortal Panda In the words of Lorgar: "The difference between Gods and Daemons largely depends upon where one is standing at the time."
(Lorgar is from the Horus Heresy, the quote itself is from "The First Heretic." Great book.)
Even more so when you remember that the Third Era (beginning with the establishment of the Septim Dynasty) only began 641 years before Skyrim.
That's within *one* non-mage Altmer's lifespan. There are plenty of them that remember Tiber walking up to Alinor with Numidium and basically saying "Submit to me or die."
@@rahovartiv3464 Mayhaps Ysgramor went too far. And he was certainly no goody two shoes hero, but I don't blame him entirely. The accounts we have is that the Snow Elves torched Saarthal to the ground and slaughtered any inside after *possibily* having divined the location of the Eye of Magnus. Afterwards, during the Return, it is implied that his son Yngol, died due to "pale white ghosts" in the appropriately named Sea of Ghosts. Knowing TES, they could've very well been ghosts, but another interpretation that makes more sense is that his son was attacked by part of a Snow Elven fleet. Either way, both sides were wrong, and sought nothing but each other's destruction.
yea thats something i like about the elder scrolls franchise it mirrors reality on how what we hear in book portrays the people like tiber septim to be a good man but in the true accounts it would be different like where tiber septim would surround him self with corrupt sniveling allies go check out redguard for that one the imperial who tiber septim sent to deal with the rebels
The final notes you added in are what’s been missing out of every lore video outside of the memospore lore podcasts. Considering they literally had Kirkbride on the Lorkhan podcast I’d say you’re doing fantastic.
casey peppard thank you so much! I’m surprised it hasn’t been mentioned elsewhere, I’m glad you are enjoying my content very much!
This is surprisingly accurate, I consider myself a lorebeard (not like these r/teslore nuts, but still) and found no bias or misinterpretation which is often the blight of lore videos on YT - quite a feat, given this is the more obscure kind of lore. Bonus brownie points for enantiomorph mention. My personal theory is that they really ended up both in the Mantella. The Underking of High Rock might just be Arctus' undead body, but with a bipolar mind of the oversoul in the mantella. Yet Underking itself is just a role, a nickname, a _persona_ - just like Tiber Septim or General Talos Stormcrown. Once this double oversoul is released with the Agent's help (or without it), it conjoins Hjalti Early-Beard's soul (who was physically Tiber Septim that mantled Lorkhan and ascended with CHIM), because all three were fragments of Shezzar, they form a triple oversoul - known as Talos the god. Hjalti the (Nord-)Breton, Wulfharth the Atmoran, Arctus the (Tsaesci-?)Imperial - they make the god of men. What's interesting is that Mannimarco calls Arctus "Arnand the Fox", and Pelinal was known as Hans the Fox, and another suspected shezzarine. This points out at the shezzarine tendency to reincarnate. That's why I believe Arctus might be Chevalier Renald in Remanada, the tsaesci dragonguard who searched for a dragonborn - and found Hjalti much later. This duo became Tiber Septim the conqueror, the persona, while General Talos was Hjalti and Wulfharth's persona. In this manner, underking is the persona of Arctus and Wulfharth. But the one you know as the first Septim ruler was Hjalti, a Breton (with a nord father) from Alcaire and dragonborn. And Ysmir Wulfharth being an ancient Atmoran zombie, this technically means that Talos IS from Atmora, but Tiber Septim wasn't - that's third empire propaganda to leave the nords inspired. By the way, you just earned a sub.
Yeah but Wulfharth was a Nord while Tiber Septim was an Atmoran and Zurin Arctus was an Imperial.
@@Super50ldier Wulfharth was Atmoran. He was in Tamriel since the merethic era into the second era, while Hjalti - if we are talking about physical Tiber here - was born in the second era when Atmora was already dead frozen.
Now, a one thing I had left out for simplicity's sake in the old comment was the rebuilt Numidium's warp dragonbreak, which could've had mythopoeic effects like actually merging the trio retroactively, changing reality and confusing everyone to see Septim, Arctus and Ysmir as one - very possible. But, it might just be Tiber picking a more stylish backstory of a fabled atmoran hero instead of a calculating breton schemer and enforcing it via the Nine divines cult.
@@theskoomazingdunmer8749 Wulfharth was around during the First Era.
Check out episode 1 of Adventures of the Dragonborn out NOW ‼️
@@Super50ldier yeah probably was , I often mix early eras up. But from what I understand, his role might be older than that, as an echo of Shor like the ones in previous kalpas. I havent' actually read entire Shor son of Shor so that's just a guess.
perfect research as a old fan of the series I can confirm 10:39 is canon as Talos didn't exist TES1-2 Redgaurd and Battlespire the dragon break causing an alternate timeline where Talos always existed is where 3-5 takes place.
another thing to note Orcs weren't playable as they at the time of Daggerfall as they not legal citizens of Tamriel and we're all considered evil thanks to the totem and the agent per the dragon break the orcs became legalized
and thats all thanks to the (old) Bethesda not wanting to pick an ending so they made them all canon
@@YOGI-kb9tgyep and dat dragonbreak excuse pissed me off as i got older cuz in elder scrolls lore we found out orcs were once illegal like buddy mentioned and even cyrodiil at that time wasnt what it is now it used to be a big jungle before tiber septim conquered but due a lore breaking "dragon break" bethesda broke their own lore that now even ESO which is way before even ES arena's events happened changed the physical lore of its locations like cyrodiil and even summerset all cuz bethesda were to lazy to pick a canon ending and didnt want alienate those who liked the other endings 🤦🏾🤦🏾
Oh wow, this is like an older Shoddycast video.
I like it.
except its better than shoddycast as it deals with the real lore and not child's play they made
Another great video, the lore surrounding Tiber Septim and his frolicking and fuckery throughout Tamriel is some of the most interesting lore in the series.
By the Nine, what a marvelous presentation!
*cough* 8 *cough*
@@voryntheriolu2525 You must be high, elf.
@Voryn the riolu *PELINAL WHITESTRAKE PINPOINTED YOUR LOCATION*
This channel is very much a hidden gem, I like how detailed these videos are, keep it up ☺️
The more I learn about Septim the more I get why the Altmer are pissed he's a God. I mean, when he took Rimmen as a testing ground for Numidium, he had the Blades 'clear out' the inhabitants, and when Senchel refused to surrender to Septim's army, they sacked the city and murdered men, women, and children.
Seriously, if I was an elf or beastfolk, I'd be nervous about him becoming a deity too.
The elves deserve to live in fear. The Beastfolk though is a bit more morally grey.
Remember, the Elves had several thousand years of history in which they ruthlessly slaughered, enslaved and sacrificed human societies as part of their attempts to leave Mundus and become divine. That sentiment hasn't gone away either, the third Aldneri Dominion (Skyrim) wants to ban Talos worship because Talos would lose the power to protect humanity from annihilation as part of the Thalmor's rituals to attain divinity.
Also, it's mainly Elves who are at risk. The Beastfolk don't have a problem with Talos and Talos doesn't have a problem with them.
Personally I have no pity for TES elves, they deserve to quake in fear.
@@Hagashager Up until Tiber Septim, I don't think the Altmer had done anything like that. The Falmer and Ayelids were already extinct, as were the left handed elves from Yokuda and the Dwemer.
The only slave holding race at the time were the Dunmer, who Septim made an agreement with and allowed them to keep their slaves.
@@zeusdemi6858
The Alyeids and direnni were altmer
@@the_dropbear4392 The Alyeids are very specifically said to be descendants of early Aldmer settlers. And the Direnni were a clan of Altmer, who were attacked by the Alessian Order (not the Rebellion, there's a big difference) and while the Direnni seem to be less than clean in their political dealings, their biggest 'crime' seems to have been taking in fleeing Alyeid refugees from Cyrodiil. Or did you forget that not all the elves the Order tried to exterminate were bloodthirsty warlords?
@@zeusdemi6858
The dirreni enslaved, tortured and raped the nedic people for thousands of years. How to you think the Breton race came about.
In fact it was the alyessian invasion that finally weakened th direnni enough for the Bretons to free themselves.
Your channel is hugely under appreciated.
These videos are gems.
soul gems
Its crazy how many hours ive logged in Skyrim and Eso and ive never heard of this before. Amazing video
Shes going deep. This is daggerfall shit lol. I know because im going through it myself. Man, if you can deal with old graphics is probably one of the best of the scrolls series. Otherwise you can mod it with Unity or DaggerfallXL
Because none of this is mentioned in Skyrim and ESO. This is real nigga lore
Oldschool lore
@@k.t.1641 yea it takes a while to get a grasp of the elder scrolls lore but it is an amazing world (outside the games)
How high do y'all think Michael Kirkbride gets
Low
How much sugar could a Kirkbride moon if a Kirkbride could moon sugar?..!
He gets it from Et's. Lore, not the sugar.
Yes
“Absinthe + ketamine = skooma”
-Michael Kirkbride probably
Beautiful work as always
Unrelated personal note, every time I hear the name ‘Earlybeard’ I’m reminded of a guy I went to school with. He started shaving in 4th grade.
Really love your videos. Out of all the people to explain elder scrolls lore, yours are the most easy to listen and follow. very good work :)
I am so happy i found this channel! :)
Me too omg
Praise the divines!!! I love the quality of these videos and the sublime artwork that you use, perhaps the wait for tes VI is long but with videos like this it makes the wait bearable, thanks 🙏 a lot for your hard work m’lady .
My Lady (of Scrolls),
I gratefully thank you for another awesome, enjoyable, and relaxing lore video.
Plus, the story of the Underking is kinda eerie and super interesting! So it's awesome you covered it. So far, as a growing channel, I just want to give you props for the quality of these videos and ESPECIALLY the topics you've been covering. Those not often covered, lesser known known, and deeper lore topics are awesome. So yeah, I love the direction this channel is going, and I think you're doing a great job.
Thank you so much for your kind support fren! It makes me so happy to hear this lol, I greatly enjoy the supportive comments people leave as it inspires me to create more content! I too enjoy the lesser known and more obscure topics in the Elder Scrolls lore, even when I make my videos I learn a lot about the subject that I didn't know before, and I'm glad to does the same for you guys! Again thank you for your kind and welcomed support!
why do i see you everywhere
Firewood Eater probably bc I love elder scrolls lol
You do the best Elder Scrolls lore videos!
Just now finding your channel. Where have you been all my life?
Is it just me or does the Totem of Tiber Septim strongly resemble a mummified baby? Could this be Barenziah's aborted baby?
I think you're on to something here
He lost his heart and cannot live or die... Sounds like a vampire surviving on magik.
And why a vampire? That just doesn't make sense
@@pandagod9678 sup bro
@@pandagod9678 ...or sis?...!
um no more like a lich really
Another Skyrim lore channel, and I found this on my birthday what a gift!!
These are some of the highest quality lore videos on TH-cam
I can't get enough of these lore videos! your channel needs to be way more popular
I think many people would enjoy a collab between you and the lads at fudgemuppet and cameleorks
Holy shit this is complicated. 8 minutes in, my brain hurts :P Good explanations but just a lot to take in.
Love your videos!! Keep them coming and I’ll keep watching
When I saw the thumbnail I thought of the skeleton on the lin Qui temple map of Mortal Kombat X
XD
I like the idea that the Underking is both Zurin and Ysmir.
Great work! And a pretty good looking font too ;)
Really high quality and well researched video. Like the use of in game quotes.
And you find the Necromancer's Amulet... in an empty house in Winterhold.
Theme from Shadow of The Colossus fits perfectly!
Excellent video!!! Cheers
So dwemer were immortal, dunmer enslave lizards, wood elves are cannibals and high elves are slavers. All living elves got some serious problems. Left handed elves might be good people considering red guards are the worst humans.
I only played Oblivion and Skyrim. failed to get arena, daggerfall, or morrowind for PS2/PS3. thanks for helping me figure out the underking is not the same antagonist as Mannimarco, who I know was allied to Molag Bal, much like Lord Harkon. but I, Lord Reptile Stormblade, and argonian protagonist with many titles across Skyrim, shall not allow Mannimarco win, should he ever resurface again. for the stormcloaks, the college of winterhold, the dark brotherhood, the thieves guild, the nightingales, the companions, and the possibility of reforming the ebonheart pact.
anthony rowan Morrowind was only on the original Xbox and PC I believe. Arena and Daggerfall were only on the PC in the 90s
Morrowind was on Xbox and Microsoft Windows. Not PS2 or PS3.
And you can download Arena and Daggerfall for free from Bethesda's website. But unless you know how to use DOSBox, I recommend downloading ArenaSetup and DaggerfallSetup.
Compelling story and as usual great work 👍 thanks 🙏
Wow fantastic work!
Nice use of Shadow of the Colossus music in this video. ^^
I'm binging all your videos, please I'd love to see some new ones
Awesome job on the video.
Aha! I see improvements!
No abrupt ending !
Ahh yes, I hope you continue to get recognition!
Ahhhh Shadow of the Colossus soundtrack well used. Love it!
Nice lore video. Alot of info. I like it.
Wow your content is smazing. Keep up the good work.
Keep it up girl , good to see balance on elder scrolls info channels
I gotta say this helps some. I only have the last two games to go by on lore and so the character of the underking really confused me. Navigating the TES lore you haven't found yourself can be...difficult.
You can read Morrowind exclusive literature on the wikis. I've read more books in Tamriel than high school.
I love it. Thanks for the vid
Keep it up! your amazing!
The Under King needs a proper DLC.
Enjoy ur content so much keep grinding thank u so much
Excellent video about one of the most interesting characters in the series.
I personally dislike Michael Kirkbride's idea of him being part of an "oversoul" with Talos, as the Underking's existence is the proof that legends like Tiber Septim were nothing more than fallible, ambitious men, and that recorded history may not be what truly happened at all.
The Underking challenges us to view TES lore in a whole new light and not accept information as it is presented to us by biased reports. To try and understand the history of Tamriel with the same level of scrutiny we apply to history of the real world. For that alone, he is one of my favorite characters in the Elder Scrolls.
3:07 can you link that source for this art? Because I love it
6:55 go what the dark? :D
What if the underking is similar to the lich king. All of the possible identities above are the underking in which there is always an underking even if one of them was vanquish?
Very good work , if you havent done The Neravarine should if would also be very good as well .
Nice vid
The Underking Thumbnail looks like a photo of Vecna. Also, Great Job! Immediately Subscribe
That shadow of the colossus music brought me back
Hello, Lady of the Scrolls! Gods of youtibe guided me here. I honour your work with subscribe!
Cool but why is vecna from D&D in the thumbnail
I know that music in the beginning is from somewhere... shadow of the colossus.
It's Eddie the Head.
Old English 'undercyning' meaning vassal or puppet king.
Awesome video
If Elder Scrolls VI doesn’t have some kind of Lich DLC, I am throwing a brick at Todd Howard’s Car.
u should do a video on the wolf queen
I just discovered your content!
i like to follow the theory that the underking is yismir wolfharth as it not only shows that talos/hjalty earlybeard wasn't a good man and gives reason why he would surround him self like the villain of the game redguard who was a sleazy back stabbing nodal who was a close friend to the emperor. what also kinda prooves it is that the victor writes the history
Those who acquire power are those who desire it. Those who desire things will often sacrifice much to achieve their desire. While there is no doubting the despicable things many of the heroes of TES have done...in most cases we did not stand in their shoes and therefore have no idea what their real choices were. So it is hard to tell how truly evil they really were and how much of it was really just the cost of making the best of circumstances. But yes, the victors write history so it is possible we will never truly know.
True and true but can he take on Mannimarco?
i feel they are on an equal footing one is a lich who imbued him self cursed objects and deadly poison and the other is a being between both life and death who is also a shezzerine
Considering underking no difficulty, Numidium lol
shor bones this is aewsome
I like the idea of Zurin being the underking, but why could Zurin call himself the underking? Zurin wasn't royalty or any kind of king as far as we know, Ysmir on the other-hand WAS a king. Maybe Ysmir was the original underking and when Zurin became a litch (or some kind of undead immortal being) people compared him to or mistook him as the (YSMIR) underking and he decided to take the title for himself?
There could've been multiple Underkings. So at least in theory, Mannimarco could've been one Underking...?
Manninarco hates the underking
Good stuff.
Yoooooo, imagine the construction of Numidium 3.0 in TES VI, with Bethesda's current technology, imagine the mountains of High Rock, where in the distance you see Numidium coming to conquer the world!
So like davy jones or something similar
Why have i never heard of this lore?!
It's from Daggerfall, which is one of the oldest games in the series.
its old and deep lore you wont find in the book its mostly stuff people put together from the concept of the unreliable narrator which is a concept that needs a video all in it own
Didn't Morrowind's opening titles say zurin arctus was the underking
The thumbnail indicated a skeleton with one blue eye
I was 1/2 expecting sans
Lol
brandon jerome I think it was Vecna from dnd
@@callumreilly9107 ahhh Yes, thanks 😉
this guy sounds cool and does this mean the Dragonborn could use the Totems?
Yes, since (somehow) the dragon born is blood related to tiber septim, he/she can use it
Well, as the true Emporers are all dragonborn...I suppose by virtue of being recognized as such the last dragonborn could use it. Being dragonborn isn't really a hereditary thing, just that those recognized by Akatosh himself as being emporer also appear to be endowed with dragonbornness. Whether they awaken to their ability to understand the dragon tongue is optional. Even the last dragonborn didn't until fate made him encounter said language.
Can you explain how to destroy a Daedric Prince?
You can't.
This is directly stated in lore.
You can't even destoy lesser Daedra, as they just reform. The most you can do is do what Molag did to one dremora clan and trap them within the armor of a leader of a rival clan.
The_Drop Bear you can in fact... more or less.
The lore states that the only difference between daedra and aedra is that the latter sacrificed their essence in order to create the mortal plane and ended up investing too much of their power, thus losing their immortality (except those that escaped, like the God of Magic, Magnus if I remember correctly).
So, basically, if your name is Lorkhan and you can convince a-hole to do something unselfish such as maintaining the mortal plane, you can kill a god. Or if your name is Akatosh and you can rip said Lorkhan’s heart, that works too I guess. Or if you’re Boethia and eat and then defecate your opponent. He may not be technically dead, but he’ll never be the same ^^
Oh, or if you’re Sheogorath and you find someone to destroy your alter ego, who logically should also be a daedra.
@@nathanjora7627
Lorkhan isn't dead, he became shor.
Trinnimach isn't dead. He became Malacath.
Jyglagg isn't dead, he is free.
It's directly stated in lore that Daedra can't be killed
The_Drop Bear Eh, no. Lorkhan is dead, Shor is just another name.
And eh... No, trinimach is dead, he became Malacath. Well, I guess that one is depending upon your philosophy and which myth you take into account, but personally I can't think of them as the same entity based upon the boethian eating Trinimac account. Considering what he's gone through, that his psychology, powers, sphere of influence, and very nature (aedra->daedra), and the nature of his followers changed, I can't say that he's the same person. I mean, if I destroyed you, as you, and took your essence, to make something radically different from everything you are right now, even though it's still the same essence, up to the point that basically no one would recognize you if you didn't wear the same name (which he doen't. Even that he doesn't), would you tell me that at the end of the process you are the same person ? Or that you died ? (I'm not even sure that it's ever stated they share any memory, in this particular retelling of the tale).
As for Jyggalag, eh... Yeah, that one I agree ^^ I misremembered :/
Which is a shame since I really like this Daedra ^^ I mean, for a start, a daedra of order ? That's almost a contradiction, and something I like so much, as well as the design, the backstory, the way he was neutralized. I wonder if he'll ever return, as a character, or patron, or anything.
PS : I should say that though Lorkhan/Shor/Shezzar is dead technically, that doesn't mean there is nothing left of him or that he couldn't be brought back to life, his heart still beat after all.
But for all intents and purposes, he is dead, or destroyed, and he didn't even come back, depending on what sources you read.
Also, what I said about Trinimac is, as far as I know, true for all Et'Ada, they can be killed, their physical incarnation ; "physical", should I say ; can be destroyed, and ther "animus" will have to go back in Oblivion and regenerate in an other form, that can have nothing to do with the previous one, at least theoretically, which makes them different persons, as ar as I'm concerned. Not better ones though, as Malacath and Merhunes are there to remember us ^^
@@nathanjora7627
Lorkhan is very much not dead.
As he keeps sending his avatar's, fights alduin every now and again.
And why the hell Daggerfall is sooo EPIC!
Is this the female 40k theories guy? I'll subscribe.
3:29 Shadow of the Colossus
Where my Daggerfall OGs at?
Answer: Skyrim
Ah yes, the legendary Sans Undertale.
Wait I thought soul gems just exchanged gave you power from sending souls to the higher master's* (gem guys) in the soul cairn so how can you empower a gem with a specific soul? Same problem with the collassal black soul gem used against the king of worms in oblivion. Also there are two characters who are last of the telvani that guy who was raised by argonians and neloth but neloth doesn't even seem to know the telvani are gone but maybe he just doesn't care that would fit his personality lol
To my understanding only the Black Soul Gems had the property, I don't know how much ESO changed the lore.
Was that a Vecna thumbnail?
From the Den of What? Gofucdadark? @6:52
Another video from Lady with a cute voice :) i love to listen them all :)
Electric Messiah?
That’s not The Underking. That’s Vecna