Love love love your videos. TH-cam was playing games and I had to go back through my watch history to find your earlier reviews so I could catch up with your breakdowns. Happy I found the channel again 🔥💪🏽🔥
In scene with Toronaga and Gin, Gin says that its not smart to leave an army in the open because spys are everywhere, insinuating that Toronaga's army is secretly larger. He surely may have made more allies around Japan that disagrees with Ishidos machinations
Agreed , he still has his forces in Edo. This is only part of his army. The problem is getting a messenger through Saeki’s guards. If Saeki finds out they sent a message to Edo, he has the authority to kill them all so it’s a huge risk!
Not going to lie the second I seen Blackthorn get up and disrespect Toronaga like that it seemed like a performance, I felt like canons were about to rip through Toronagas brothers army but then it went onto the next scene so I'm not so sure now
Lmaooo true. Maybe he went to sneak a message to Toranagas forces in Edo. If he really did just storm off then I’ll lose a little respect for the writing in the show.
I think Blackthorne was not informed. Nobody besides the tea house lady seems to be aware of Toranaga's plan. Not having Blackthorne know would also make his action more convincing and by this time, no doubt Blackthorne has become predictable to Toranaga.
If that’s the case then Blackthorne walking out becomes a pretty stupid scene. We saw a character and his son be killed for politely interrupting a meeting, Blackthorne straight up insulted *everyone* and was allowed to walk out unscathed…
@@BadTakeRisan Whether he knew or not has no effect on the reaction of the others. None of them were in on the plan, made clear by their objections and the actions of his son. So even if it was the case he only let Blackthorne know and told him to put on a show, none of the other retainers would have known anyway and they would have killed him. I rather think they stayed silent to keep protocol. So no added value by letting Blackthorne in on the plan.
@MustardSkaven I think it has an effect on how Toranaga is depicted. Sure it doesn’t explain the lack of outrage on Saeki’s part but it does explain Toranaga’s. Like the scene with Fuji’s husband showed, it’s generally expected that a liege lord punishes his own subordinates. Blackthorne’s walk off being apart of Toranaga’s plan explains his lack of reaction. If that or some other reason isn’t the explanation for Blackthorne walking off , then it’s an unrealistic scene purely there for dramatic effect. It also breaks the rules of the universe that were established earlier in the show. I get what you’re saying tho , it’s my bad for not specifying earlier.
I totally agree with you mate, I don’t mind it being different from the book because I can just read the book again. But that scene where Toranaga asks Mariko to pick between her loyalty to him or Blackthorne made no sense in the series because we haven’t seen them be close since the earlier episodes. I get that they’re trying to tell the story through a ‘wider lens’ and not focus as much on their relationship but I just don’t feel any chemistry between them, which kind of sucks… I loved the scene in the brothel in the previous episode where Kiku ‘spoke through’ Mariko to Blackthorne and they realised their desires for each other but it wasn’t enough to keep the romance alive, if you know what I mean? Really enjoying the show so far though and I’m loving these breakdown videos mate, you’ve earned yourself a new subscriber!
I also forgot to say, I’ve got a feeling that Blackthorne storming out on that meeting might be some kind of plan between him and Toranaga, because like you said, he realistically would’ve been punished for such an act! I’m hoping it’s a sneaky plan, otherwise it just doesn’t seem to fit.
Yeah I get what you’re saying. Clearly the shows focus is on the political conflict and the wider pov like you said. Unfortunately the romance does take a back seat due to that. The chemistry isn’t really there. There is a scene in the book which should happen next episode that does improve their chemistry quite a bit. If they include it , they can “save” that story arc and have their chemistry be similar to what it was in the book. I doubt it tho since the show seems to be doing its own thing so maybe we’ll get some original scenes between Mariko and John like the natto scene! You also make a good point about the Blackthorne walk off scene. I never thought about that 🤔. Maybe he’s going to his boat or getting a message through to Toranaga’s other forces in edo somehow? I can’t wait for next week. Thanks for the kind words mate and welcome to the channel!
Not only that. In Game of Thrones also many characters put their family/house above everything else. Seppuku was a way to save the honour of your family for future generations.
True, that too. Although, I think that’s just Game of Thrones taking inspiration from ancient samurai and medieval times with the importance of houses / family names. Shogun is doing the same so I think it’s a case both shows being inspired by the same thing(History) instead of Shogun being inspired by GOT in that sense.
@@BadTakeRisan That's true, they are a reflection of how fleeting life was in those days and how little value a single person's life had. So the value was in the future generations, the family. I'm not saying they were inspired by GoT but GoT also displayed this very well, how the family/house and the legacy was more important than the individual. So it reminded me of GoT in that sense.
Yeah honestly Game of Thrones depicted that aspect of history and the importance of family names better than most historical shows. I love Vikings but other than Ragnar, no one really cared about their family name. Which was weird considering the Vikings and Scandinavians as a whole had strong family ties and values.
I don't think that JBs behaviour at the meeting was off the cuff, Toranaga had him do it on purpose. It's all part of the plan. Say it in a Baldrick voice "I have a cunning plan!"
@@BadTakeRisan there's no way someone as sharp as Toranaga would let himself get spoken to like that if it wasn't all part of a plan. I think even Saeki's betrayal is part of the plan, the man is playing 4d chess whilst everyone else is playing snap.
An insane episode. Some good, some bad but undoubtedly an eventful one! What did you think?
I was waiting impatienly for your review. You're the best reviewer of this show so far.
Thank you! I apologise for the wait😭
Love love love your videos. TH-cam was playing games and I had to go back through my watch history to find your earlier reviews so I could catch up with your breakdowns. Happy I found the channel again 🔥💪🏽🔥
Thanks man , YT can be a bitch sometimes but I’m glad to have you back!
In scene with Toronaga and Gin, Gin says that its not smart to leave an army in the open because spys are everywhere, insinuating that Toronaga's army is secretly larger. He surely may have made more allies around Japan that disagrees with Ishidos machinations
Agreed , he still has his forces in Edo. This is only part of his army. The problem is getting a messenger through Saeki’s guards. If Saeki finds out they sent a message to Edo, he has the authority to kill them all so it’s a huge risk!
Not going to lie the second I seen Blackthorn get up and disrespect Toronaga like that it seemed like a performance, I felt like canons were about to rip through Toronagas brothers army but then it went onto the next scene so I'm not so sure now
Lmaooo true. Maybe he went to sneak a message to Toranagas forces in Edo. If he really did just storm off then I’ll lose a little respect for the writing in the show.
I think Blackthorne was not informed. Nobody besides the tea house lady seems to be aware of Toranaga's plan. Not having Blackthorne know would also make his action more convincing and by this time, no doubt Blackthorne has become predictable to Toranaga.
If that’s the case then Blackthorne walking out becomes a pretty stupid scene. We saw a character and his son be killed for politely interrupting a meeting, Blackthorne straight up insulted *everyone* and was allowed to walk out unscathed…
@@BadTakeRisan Whether he knew or not has no effect on the reaction of the others. None of them were in on the plan, made clear by their objections and the actions of his son.
So even if it was the case he only let Blackthorne know and told him to put on a show, none of the other retainers would have known anyway and they would have killed him. I rather think they stayed silent to keep protocol. So no added value by letting Blackthorne in on the plan.
@MustardSkaven I think it has an effect on how Toranaga is depicted. Sure it doesn’t explain the lack of outrage on Saeki’s part but it does explain Toranaga’s. Like the scene with Fuji’s husband showed, it’s generally expected that a liege lord punishes his own subordinates. Blackthorne’s walk off being apart of Toranaga’s plan explains his lack of reaction.
If that or some other reason isn’t the explanation for Blackthorne walking off , then it’s an unrealistic scene purely there for dramatic effect. It also breaks the rules of the universe that were established earlier in the show. I get what you’re saying tho , it’s my bad for not specifying earlier.
I totally agree with you mate, I don’t mind it being different from the book because I can just read the book again. But that scene where Toranaga asks Mariko to pick between her loyalty to him or Blackthorne made no sense in the series because we haven’t seen them be close since the earlier episodes. I get that they’re trying to tell the story through a ‘wider lens’ and not focus as much on their relationship but I just don’t feel any chemistry between them, which kind of sucks… I loved the scene in the brothel in the previous episode where Kiku ‘spoke through’ Mariko to Blackthorne and they realised their desires for each other but it wasn’t enough to keep the romance alive, if you know what I mean?
Really enjoying the show so far though and I’m loving these breakdown videos mate, you’ve earned yourself a new subscriber!
I also forgot to say, I’ve got a feeling that Blackthorne storming out on that meeting might be some kind of plan between him and Toranaga, because like you said, he realistically would’ve been punished for such an act! I’m hoping it’s a sneaky plan, otherwise it just doesn’t seem to fit.
Yeah I get what you’re saying. Clearly the shows focus is on the political conflict and the wider pov like you said. Unfortunately the romance does take a back seat due to that. The chemistry isn’t really there. There is a scene in the book which should happen next episode that does improve their chemistry quite a bit. If they include it , they can “save” that story arc and have their chemistry be similar to what it was in the book. I doubt it tho since the show seems to be doing its own thing so maybe we’ll get some original scenes between Mariko and John like the natto scene!
You also make a good point about the Blackthorne walk off scene. I never thought about that 🤔. Maybe he’s going to his boat or getting a message through to Toranaga’s other forces in edo somehow? I can’t wait for next week.
Thanks for the kind words mate and welcome to the channel!
It’s funny you mentioned Game of Thrones because that last scene gave me major GoT vibes.
For sure! The ending reminded me of the Oberyn vs Mountain scene. A character we're rooting for dies in an unexpected, gruesome way.
Not only that. In Game of Thrones also many characters put their family/house above everything else. Seppuku was a way to save the honour of your family for future generations.
True, that too. Although, I think that’s just Game of Thrones taking inspiration from ancient samurai and medieval times with the importance of houses / family names. Shogun is doing the same so I think it’s a case both shows being inspired by the same thing(History) instead of Shogun being inspired by GOT in that sense.
@@BadTakeRisan That's true, they are a reflection of how fleeting life was in those days and how little value a single person's life had. So the value was in the future generations, the family.
I'm not saying they were inspired by GoT but GoT also displayed this very well, how the family/house and the legacy was more important than the individual. So it reminded me of GoT in that sense.
Yeah honestly Game of Thrones depicted that aspect of history and the importance of family names better than most historical shows. I love Vikings but other than Ragnar, no one really cared about their family name. Which was weird considering the Vikings and Scandinavians as a whole had strong family ties and values.
I don't think that JBs behaviour at the meeting was off the cuff, Toranaga had him do it on purpose. It's all part of the plan. Say it in a Baldrick voice "I have a cunning plan!"
That’s a good theory , I hope so because otherwise it doesn’t make much sense.
@@BadTakeRisan there's no way someone as sharp as Toranaga would let himself get spoken to like that if it wasn't all part of a plan. I think even Saeki's betrayal is part of the plan, the man is playing 4d chess whilst everyone else is playing snap.
I need episode 8 nowww. Things are heating tf up👀
@@BadTakeRisan I've read the book two or three times now and I love that it's not following it to the letter, it means the show can still surprise me
Yeah same. I hope they keep the essence of the book tho. It’s always a little worrying when a show/movie/anime does an original ending.
Not a fan of you putting such a huge spoiler in the thumbnail. Ik i would’ve been upset had I not watched the episode last night
i hear ya, i just changed it now. It should update soon.