I think he's impressed with Gin because he doesn't tip his hand to her, but includes her complete request in his will when he's writing it in the later scene.
@@mattng4707 Yes, I think he respects her because of her survival skills and she never wasted his time. She only had a stick of time, when everyone else gets unlimited time and they keep coming to him with trivial things. Also, she's a great business woman.
@@Calinotch06 totally agree with what you said the scene was so powerful especially her back story...did Toranga give Jen a special mission ..I need to rewatch later tonight
@@mattng4707 Yes I plan to rewatch because there were small subtle things happening. Most think this was a filler episode, but I think we were placed in the shoes of his clan to doubt Toranaga and feel like betraying him.
@@Calinotch06 ahhh very good observation ... I was wondering whether Toranga thought his son would do what he did to his own demise or would he the situation for something
Toranaga is positioning his enemies and having them do his dirty work without them realizing it. He told his son of this plot in the 2nd or 3rd episode. I believe he has an army tucked away. He is down playing Blackthorn's value.
Also, did you catch how Toranaga refused to tell Saeki the strategy and kept trying to push it to another day. But when he surrendered he explicitly said "oh by the way we aren't going to do Crimson Sky". Was that code to his Saeki, because his men looked defeated?
I think this episode slowed things down a little and put us in the shoes of Toranaga's clan, because their fate is up in the air and it seems like he doesn't have a plan. But eventually it will be revealed.
I felt like the slower pacing of this episode helped set up the mood of uncertainty as Toranaga goes through the motion of making his decision. Everyone is at a stage of uneasiness as patience is hard to come by, and that allowed us to see how everyone is handing the wait. He has something up his sleeve for sure, and I hope it involves turning Blackthorn loose with his canons a'blazin'!
You make a fantastic point. This entire episode is about time. Either too little (pending doom) or too much (waiting for directions). Only two people have the right amount of time. Toranaga of course, as he is the only one that knows what's happening, and the mama-san who only needs a stick of time to further her ambitions.
The whole series is a slow build, and we get some great insight into the wide cast of characters. Not slow at all…enjoying every minute. Quick compliment: You’re one of the few reviewers to take the time to get the pronunciation of the names right. Thanks for a great review.
In scene with Toronaga and Gin, Gin says that its not smart to leave an army in the open because spys are everywhere, insinuating that Toronaga's army is secretly larger. He surely may have made more allies around Japan that disagrees with Ishidos machinations...
Hey Chris. Was reading an article, and I saw this. Pretty cool. Legend has it that the legendary rōnin Miyamoto Musashi also fought in the Battle of Sekighara as a sixteen-year-old among Hiroie’s forces. There is no hard evidence to prove that Musashi was there, but many fictional accounts of his life-such as the Samurai film trilogy starring Toshiro Mifune and the popular manga Vagabond-begin on the battlefield of Sekigahara. Never knew that.
Considering i heard that there will be no season 2 cause its supposed to be ll in 1 season. and there is still no sight to this "war" (not that battles have to be everything) im only worried the ending will be rushed.
I think Toranaga is using this to allow him and his army to get escorted inside the castle and then once inside they start crimson sky. I also think that his brother is on it with him and he’s playing the council.
I definitely think Torinaga has something up his sleeve. Perhaps his army isn't as decimated as they all think or he has plans to use the cannons under Blackthorn in some unconventional way. The Madam knows he is up to something.
@@SmokeScreenVids It seems Toranaga is simply using Blackthorne, but doesn't want to hurt his feelings. He never plans to let him go especially after he was told European countries own Asian territories.
Toranaga is going to get Blackthorn to blow Osaka castle up with his cannons on his ship and his army in Edo is going to help along with other allies. He sent 119 letters out to get others to help before the real battle of Sekigahara in 1600, but the siege at Osaka was much later on. Someone mentioned in this episode, the grandfather?, about winning wars by not fighting, so that could be an omen of what's to come in this version. But if they keep faithful to the novel...
Saeki had to strangle himself while “pillowing” the most beautiful & artistic woman he has probably ever been with? Really, so Kiku was not enough. What a brute. And poor Kiku being “honored” to have to go with him after this is all over. I understand the female seppuku much better now.
They will have to explain so many things on next chapter, Saeki should totally get crazy and take brutal retaliation against Kiku and maybe other people on Toranagas leadership if he wants to avoid further murder attempts, it is also still not very logic that Toranaga is willingly surrendering his life unless his brother is part of his plan or Is also not very logic that he changes his mind only due to this last death, however we must see him crushing his brother and adding his remaining forces to his army if they want to convince us that this last chapter had some sense at all. Since marching to Osaka and having a final battle there will be a mayor deviation for the reference history on this plot I wonder how the script will fix it or they will simple deviate from this reference. Still good plot so far.
Another good assessment here. I would like to ask everyone please pause... PAUSE... this video at 8:43 (or its equivalent scene from the original episode) and ask yourself "is there a subliminal visual message about this half-brother (Saeki) based on his bright, shining, silver headgear?" 🍆I realize that even mentioning this might actually be saying more about ME than what the show intended to say about the character, but I hope I am not alone! 😂🤣
I have a major issue with this series: it is released one episode each week! I reckon a lot of folks would binge it otherwise and watch the entirety of the series in a few days. Otherwise - this is such a classy, fantastic show! Thanks for sharing your thoughts, I appreciate your commentary. 👍
Usaeki did not embellish, he turned each “story” (asked in innocence) on its head, the opposite of what actually happened. BOOK SPOILER : none of this happened in the book. I believe the screen writes hit us over the head with a 2x4, even using Toranagas religion (going to the Tori gate), to have us believe he, Toranaga, was at wits end. The book does not include this over-the-top “play acting” of Toranaga, when he truly planned every single action, every player on His chessboard. I know it must have been so very difficult to take a 1000 page novel & convert into 10 episodes, no doubt. I do not understand why ANYONE would think there may be a second Season, no it an adaptation of a novel, not some offshoot series that could continue after the battle. Only an single epilogue to explain to audiences unfamiliar with this subject. I still believe the screen writers will come through for us in the final three episodes. Fingers crossed everyone ;-)
Ok, have to say it, I love the intro visually but I absolutely hate the Westworld part of it because it’s so Westworld and takes me out of the box every time until the music changes.
Yeah the rock thing seemed out of place and purely for shock value. Not a fan of that. If they needed him to die to move the story forward I’m sure there are better ways they could have done so. Probably my least favourite episode yet, but somehow still better than 99% of shows out there today 😂
Absolutely-it’s a novel, pure fiction, twisted & torn from true history. There is both bad & good in this screen play, & the novel. What this will hopefully do, is to interest people in the actual history of medieval Japan, as it’s very worth the time.
I believe the deal that Saeki made was for all of Toranagas land, as he mentions that he’ll control Edo as well. Edit: everyone calling this episode slow really needs to take their ADHD medicine. This was always going to be a show of primarily intrigue, not constant action.
nope.not slow at all. if you’re into Micheal Bay ADHD movies, i see where you’re coming from. acting was top notch. Dying ingloriously from slipping into stones is heart breaking.
Here's my prediction. Got a bit too into it, so consider it writing practice if nothing else. 😅 TL;DR first: Ultimately, we know Toranaga is scheming, but we also know he can't control nature, and the earthquake decimating his forces (and nearly him) was not on his bingo card. Given this great loss, we know Toranaga only has gambles left at his disposal. In episode 7 we see two come to fruition: Gamble 1: Saeki, loosely referred to as Toranaga's only potential ally, is an obvious strategic choice to replace Toranaga on the council. Toranaga attempts to ally with him first. If things don't work out, then Toranaga's trap card is activated with gamble 2. Gamble 2: If things go south, Blackthorne flips out and rallies a handful of bros to his ship, now positioned to take out Ishido's ship and possibly even Ishido himself. Cannons, explosions, etc. *Note that Blackthorne's role in this is not an order from Toranaga, but rather a decision Toranaga knew the anjin would make on his own due to the anjin's personality. The rest is justification: Toranaga, being an infamous judge of character, knows Blackthorne's personality quite well. He knows that the Anjin is easily rustled and will ultimately act upon his own instincts if pushed. Toranaga has witnessed this on screen many many times throughout the series. There are hints that serve as reminders of the Anjin's abrasive personality strewn throughout the episode. Despite 4,000,000 scenes in past episodes that paint a well-established idea that Blackthorne "needs to quit being a barbarian and step in line," in episode 7 we see an oddly large amount of scenes that return to this theme, almost like a return to "manners 101" even though he took that class 4 episodes ago. - Mariko reminding him he needs to bow to Saeki during the introduction. Blackthorne bows to practically everyone by now, let alone a prestigious person, without a reminder. - Just beforehand, Buntaro demands that Mariko remind the barbarian to stay in line. - Saeki is amazed that the rumors of the "tamed barbarian" are true. - Most importantly, Toranaga summoning Blackthorne to, once again, grill him on being a barbarian that needs to "behave himself tonight." Why is the latter the most important? Because I believe the entire reason the anjin was summoned to see Toranaga in the first place was to be tested. Toranaga needed to know if Blackthorne was still the barbarian at heart that was unpredictable enough to catch the enemy by surprise. To bait this, he offered no explanations for his refusal to let the anjin pilot his ship, and this refusal was delivered staunchly. This blatant dismissal and flex of authority is kryptonite to the anjin, we know by now. Toranaga even turned his back to the anjin right after denying him, baiting Blackthorne even harder with body language. Contrary to his dialogue, Toranaga was glad to see the anjin still had his fire and couldn't swallow his pride and follow orders he disagreed with. To play devil's advocate, if the summons were NOT a Toranaga plot, then he summoned the Anjin there just to say "be good tonight" and that's it. If you recall, he had nothing else to say to the anjin. The rest of that conversation was purely responses to the anjin's questions. Summoning the anjin for a 15 second "behave yourself tonight" lecture? I dunno about that. The last time we see Blackthorne in this episode, as he's leaving the negotiations, no one bats an eye. "Of course the dishonorable barbarian would turn his tail and leave," and thus no one gives half a shit. Exactly as Toranaga had hoped. Blackthorne has been a card up the sleeve for at least half the season as a "wildcard" option. This is why since mid-season Toranaga has been unwilling to release the anjin from service, but has done almost everything short of that to try and keep him happy and interested in staying. Perhaps even going so far as to keep Blackthorne and Mariko close in order to nurture their romance, but pulling on the leash when they get too close, ensuring Mariko remains loyal and, by proxy, so does the anjin. It's also possible that in keeping the romance on a leash, the anticipation and desire are x100 stronger, causing the anjin to develop that "fire" that keeps him genuinely invested in playing an important role in the clan for Mariko's sake. I suspect Buntaro may be playing a kinda fucked up role as well in this romance, but my theory on that is a bit schizo still. Lastly, just as Toranaga kept the anjin around, he kept the anjin's ship around. By now it could have been put to use or at least stripped for resources. Instead it's sat in the same place for 7 episodes. Same exact spot. While part of this is to ensure the anjin stays loyal and hopeful, the boat's position could also be why Toranaga decided to bring his forces to Izu, knowing that if trouble were to show up, it'd likely be by sea.
Check out The SmokeScreen Podcast th-cam.com/play/PLmRQBLduDYDRNvHgH8C8nhKeXz7u4xKaY.html&si=lFpiDI7PIjaaDKjp
I think he's impressed with Gin because he doesn't tip his hand to her, but includes her complete request in his will when he's writing it in the later scene.
Toranaga always had a plan and Jen is the only one smart enough to notice, Toranaga rewards her for her wits.
Also don't you think Toranga respects her for her just wanting to live and survive ...seems so many people want death or die in his group
@@mattng4707 Yes, I think he respects her because of her survival skills and she never wasted his time. She only had a stick of time, when everyone else gets unlimited time and they keep coming to him with trivial things. Also, she's a great business woman.
@@Calinotch06 totally agree with what you said the scene was so powerful especially her back story...did Toranga give Jen a special mission ..I need to rewatch later tonight
@@mattng4707 Yes I plan to rewatch because there were small subtle things happening. Most think this was a filler episode, but I think we were placed in the shoes of his clan to doubt Toranaga and feel like betraying him.
@@Calinotch06 ahhh very good observation ... I was wondering whether Toranga thought his son would do what he did to his own demise or would he the situation for something
I don’t feel like this episode was slow at all, and I’m kind of glad it wasn’t revealed of what his plan was keeps me on my toes
Toranaga is positioning his enemies and having them do his dirty work without them realizing it. He told his son of this plot in the 2nd or 3rd episode. I believe he has an army tucked away. He is down playing Blackthorn's value.
Dam I need to know more
the earthquake was the pefect opportunity to hide thousands of men without anyone looking for them
Also, did you catch how Toranaga refused to tell Saeki the strategy and kept trying to push it to another day. But when he surrendered he explicitly said "oh by the way we aren't going to do Crimson Sky". Was that code to his Saeki, because his men looked defeated?
I think he moved most of his army somewhere and even his advisors don’t know.
@@SmokeScreenVids yes
I think this episode slowed things down a little and put us in the shoes of Toranaga's clan, because their fate is up in the air and it seems like he doesn't have a plan. But eventually it will be revealed.
I felt like the slower pacing of this episode helped set up the mood of uncertainty as Toranaga goes through the motion of making his decision. Everyone is at a stage of uneasiness as patience is hard to come by, and that allowed us to see how everyone is handing the wait. He has something up his sleeve for sure, and I hope it involves turning Blackthorn loose with his canons a'blazin'!
You make a fantastic point. This entire episode is about time. Either too little (pending doom) or too much (waiting for directions). Only two people have the right amount of time. Toranaga of course, as he is the only one that knows what's happening, and the mama-san who only needs a stick of time to further her ambitions.
I almost want to quit shogun , gutted that my boy died like that … banana peel
The whole series is a slow build, and we get some great insight into the wide cast of characters. Not slow at all…enjoying every minute. Quick compliment: You’re one of the few reviewers to take the time to get the pronunciation of the names right. Thanks for a great review.
Glad you enjoy
In scene with Toronaga and Gin, Gin says that its not smart to leave an army in the open because spys are everywhere, insinuating that Toronaga's army is secretly larger. He surely may have made more allies around Japan that disagrees with Ishidos machinations...
Hey Chris. Was reading an article, and I saw this. Pretty cool.
Legend has it that the legendary rōnin Miyamoto Musashi also fought in the Battle of Sekighara as a sixteen-year-old among Hiroie’s forces. There is no hard evidence to prove that Musashi was there, but many fictional accounts of his life-such as the Samurai film trilogy starring Toshiro Mifune and the popular manga Vagabond-begin on the battlefield of Sekigahara.
Never knew that.
"by a fucking rock" 😂😅
SMH that part of show ruin everything. That's bad storytelling. Just boring
@@sbyerley I know 😂😂 bad story telling
It wasn't filler I just wanted more ...totally love the stick of time scene
Agree
Stick of shit
@@SmokeScreenVidsdisagree the show is boring
@@geelove4974ok
@@geelove4974 Then don't watch. This show is literally the best thing on television right now. And it's not even close
Brutal episode. Really enjoy your recaps!
Considering i heard that there will be no season 2 cause its supposed to be ll in 1 season. and there is still no sight to this "war" (not that battles have to be everything) im only worried the ending will be rushed.
I think Toranaga is using this to allow him and his army to get escorted inside the castle and then once inside they start crimson sky. I also think that his brother is on it with him and he’s playing the council.
I actually gained a lot of respect for Nagakado's assassination tempt on his uncle. Then he slipped on a rock and I was HEATED.
Blackthorn holding the sword was hilarious. 😂
I definitely think Torinaga has something up his sleeve. Perhaps his army isn't as decimated as they all think or he has plans to use the cannons under Blackthorn in some unconventional way. The Madam knows he is up to something.
Blackthorne is given all these titles and gifts, but they don't teach him how to use his swords?
Not so far
@@SmokeScreenVids It seems Toranaga is simply using Blackthorne, but doesn't want to hurt his feelings. He never plans to let him go especially after he was told European countries own Asian territories.
Stick em with the pointy end
For a reason, neh?
Stick em with the pointy end
Toranaga is going to get Blackthorn to blow Osaka castle up with his cannons on his ship and his army in Edo is going to help along with other allies. He sent 119 letters out to get others to help before the real battle of Sekigahara in 1600, but the siege at Osaka was much later on. Someone mentioned in this episode, the grandfather?, about winning wars by not fighting, so that could be an omen of what's to come in this version. But if they keep faithful to the novel...
Saeki had to strangle himself while “pillowing” the most beautiful & artistic woman he has probably ever been with? Really, so Kiku was not enough. What a brute. And poor Kiku being “honored” to have to go with him after this is all over. I understand the female seppuku much better now.
They will have to explain so many things on next chapter, Saeki should totally get crazy and take brutal retaliation against Kiku and maybe other people on Toranagas leadership if he wants to avoid further murder attempts, it is also still not very logic that Toranaga is willingly surrendering his life unless his brother is part of his plan or Is also not very logic that he changes his mind only due to this last death, however we must see him crushing his brother and adding his remaining forces to his army if they want to convince us that this last chapter had some sense at all. Since marching to Osaka and having a final battle there will be a mayor deviation for the reference history on this plot I wonder how the script will fix it or they will simple deviate from this reference. Still good plot so far.
Another good assessment here. I would like to ask everyone please pause... PAUSE... this video at 8:43 (or its equivalent scene from the original episode) and ask yourself "is there a subliminal visual message about this half-brother (Saeki) based on his bright, shining, silver headgear?" 🍆I realize that even mentioning this might actually be saying more about ME than what the show intended to say about the character, but I hope I am not alone! 😂🤣
I have a major issue with this series: it is released one episode each week! I reckon a lot of folks would binge it otherwise and watch the entirety of the series in a few days.
Otherwise - this is such a classy, fantastic show!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, I appreciate your commentary. 👍
Yes! I have been so spoiled by streaming television, I actually forgot what it was like to have to wait each week
This did seem like a throwaway episode
The need confirmation to know if they doing it or not are so immature
Base on their character we should already know the answer
Usaeki did not embellish, he turned each “story” (asked in innocence) on its head, the opposite of what actually happened. BOOK SPOILER : none of this happened in the book. I believe the screen writes hit us over the head with a 2x4, even using Toranagas religion (going to the Tori gate), to have us believe he, Toranaga, was at wits end. The book does not include this over-the-top “play acting” of Toranaga, when he truly planned every single action, every player on His chessboard. I know it must have been so very difficult to take a 1000 page novel & convert into 10 episodes, no doubt. I do not understand why ANYONE would think there may be a second Season, no it an adaptation of a novel, not some offshoot series that could continue after the battle. Only an single epilogue to
explain to audiences unfamiliar with this subject. I still believe the screen writers will come through for us in the final three episodes. Fingers crossed everyone ;-)
I wonder if Kiku will be punished?
Good question, but his Son did order it.
Ok, have to say it, I love the intro visually but I absolutely hate the Westworld part of it because it’s so Westworld and takes me out of the box every time until the music changes.
Yeah the more I hear it I agree
Yeah the rock thing seemed out of place and purely for shock value. Not a fan of that. If they needed him to die to move the story forward I’m sure there are better ways they could have done so. Probably my least favourite episode yet, but somehow still better than 99% of shows out there today 😂
I liked it. More Fuji, please.
関ヶ原の戦いに至るプロセスと、その後の権力争いがごちゃまぜになっていて、本当の歴史を知る日本人は混乱する。
これは全くのフィクションとして見なければ楽しめない。
Absolutely-it’s a novel, pure fiction, twisted & torn from true history. There is both bad & good in this screen play, & the novel. What this will hopefully do, is to interest people in the actual history of medieval Japan, as it’s very worth the time.
I believe the deal that Saeki made was for all of Toranagas land, as he mentions that he’ll control Edo as well.
Edit: everyone calling this episode slow really needs to take their ADHD medicine. This was always going to be a show of primarily intrigue, not constant action.
nope.not slow at all. if you’re into Micheal Bay ADHD movies, i see where you’re coming from.
acting was top notch. Dying ingloriously from slipping into stones is heart breaking.
Here's my prediction. Got a bit too into it, so consider it writing practice if nothing else. 😅
TL;DR first:
Ultimately, we know Toranaga is scheming, but we also know he can't control nature, and the earthquake decimating his forces (and nearly him) was not on his bingo card. Given this great loss, we know Toranaga only has gambles left at his disposal. In episode 7 we see two come to fruition:
Gamble 1: Saeki, loosely referred to as Toranaga's only potential ally, is an obvious strategic choice to replace Toranaga on the council. Toranaga attempts to ally with him first. If things don't work out, then Toranaga's trap card is activated with gamble 2.
Gamble 2: If things go south, Blackthorne flips out and rallies a handful of bros to his ship, now positioned to take out Ishido's ship and possibly even Ishido himself. Cannons, explosions, etc.
*Note that Blackthorne's role in this is not an order from Toranaga, but rather a decision Toranaga knew the anjin would make on his own due to the anjin's personality.
The rest is justification:
Toranaga, being an infamous judge of character, knows Blackthorne's personality quite well. He knows that the Anjin is easily rustled and will ultimately act upon his own instincts if pushed. Toranaga has witnessed this on screen many many times throughout the series.
There are hints that serve as reminders of the Anjin's abrasive personality strewn throughout the episode. Despite 4,000,000 scenes in past episodes that paint a well-established idea that Blackthorne "needs to quit being a barbarian and step in line," in episode 7 we see an oddly large amount of scenes that return to this theme, almost like a return to "manners 101" even though he took that class 4 episodes ago.
- Mariko reminding him he needs to bow to Saeki during the introduction. Blackthorne bows to practically everyone by now, let alone a prestigious person, without a reminder.
- Just beforehand, Buntaro demands that Mariko remind the barbarian to stay in line.
- Saeki is amazed that the rumors of the "tamed barbarian" are true.
- Most importantly, Toranaga summoning Blackthorne to, once again, grill him on being a barbarian that needs to "behave himself tonight."
Why is the latter the most important? Because I believe the entire reason the anjin was summoned to see Toranaga in the first place was to be tested. Toranaga needed to know if Blackthorne was still the barbarian at heart that was unpredictable enough to catch the enemy by surprise. To bait this, he offered no explanations for his refusal to let the anjin pilot his ship, and this refusal was delivered staunchly. This blatant dismissal and flex of authority is kryptonite to the anjin, we know by now. Toranaga even turned his back to the anjin right after denying him, baiting Blackthorne even harder with body language. Contrary to his dialogue, Toranaga was glad to see the anjin still had his fire and couldn't swallow his pride and follow orders he disagreed with.
To play devil's advocate, if the summons were NOT a Toranaga plot, then he summoned the Anjin there just to say "be good tonight" and that's it. If you recall, he had nothing else to say to the anjin. The rest of that conversation was purely responses to the anjin's questions. Summoning the anjin for a 15 second "behave yourself tonight" lecture? I dunno about that.
The last time we see Blackthorne in this episode, as he's leaving the negotiations, no one bats an eye. "Of course the dishonorable barbarian would turn his tail and leave," and thus no one gives half a shit. Exactly as Toranaga had hoped.
Blackthorne has been a card up the sleeve for at least half the season as a "wildcard" option. This is why since mid-season Toranaga has been unwilling to release the anjin from service, but has done almost everything short of that to try and keep him happy and interested in staying. Perhaps even going so far as to keep Blackthorne and Mariko close in order to nurture their romance, but pulling on the leash when they get too close, ensuring Mariko remains loyal and, by proxy, so does the anjin. It's also possible that in keeping the romance on a leash, the anticipation and desire are x100 stronger, causing the anjin to develop that "fire" that keeps him genuinely invested in playing an important role in the clan for Mariko's sake. I suspect Buntaro may be playing a kinda fucked up role as well in this romance, but my theory on that is a bit schizo still.
Lastly, just as Toranaga kept the anjin around, he kept the anjin's ship around. By now it could have been put to use or at least stripped for resources. Instead it's sat in the same place for 7 episodes. Same exact spot. While part of this is to ensure the anjin stays loyal and hopeful, the boat's position could also be why Toranaga decided to bring his forces to Izu, knowing that if trouble were to show up, it'd likely be by sea.
This or 5 have been my favorite episode ! But got flan this episode mad me the angriest !!!!!!! Fuck I can’t wait for 8 lol 🥺😫😫😫
I thought it was a great episode!
Oh it was certainly good, no bad ones in Shogun.
Oops
⚔️? No
🪨 ahhhh yes of course 😂
S...S!!!!!
Horrible recap and thoughts on this episode
Appreciate it. I don't see yours yet.