The best thing a bedroom producer can do to evaluate their track with a Producer mindset is to listen to the track while working or otherwise occupied. The track will sound totally different, I promise. Playing the whole track and then repeating the listening process is equally valid here because it keeps you from looping a section (easily, anyways). You have to walk through the whole track again, noticing and re noticing. I find that this is when the Idea of the track may, for the first time, become truly apparent to the bedroom producer. From there, the vision can be modified in the studio. Rinse and repeat as needed. Great video. Great channel.
Yes. This. I agree 100%. My favorite thing to do is to go for a drive and have my track playing normally in the background as if it's on Pandora / SiriusXM. Even better, I'll put someone else's track that I like first in a playlist, and my track next, and just cruise in the car. If the two songs blend nicely, things are going in the right direction.
Totally. I now have the discipline of doing a bounce after every session which I then listen away from my studio. I might be walking or cooking, I might listen to it downstairs in my living room or on my iPhone and I sometimes share these early cuts with friends. The keywords here are objectivity and strategy. Also, I will regularly take a break from one piece and switch to another that also helps with objectivity and strategy. The hardest thing can be the decision to take away things. One track I had had an entire section removed which a family member recommended and that was uncountable hours of work thrown away but was fit the best, and another time in my own experience, I removed the very things that the track started with as the piece had moved in a completely new direction. The objectivity means it’s harder to be attached to the effort, as your video talks about.
I have an old copy of iTunes specifically for making a playlist of all current tracks. At first it’s obviously just a few songs that get repeated in a short session. As the track count grows, the playlist reaches hours in length and then I turn on shuffle. Every time I notice something out of place in the mix or arrangement, or something that is really good, I take a mental note. All of these mix notes culminate after 100 or so hours listening to the playlist in the background, and then I go back and refine all the rough mixes and apply the notes. Then the playlist starts again for a “final mix”, and then finally a “Master Playlist”. By mixing all the tracks as one “playlist” it keeps the mixes consistent across albums, because they all flow as one giant compilation.
Dude THANK YOU, seriously! I feel like such an idiot for not knowing this. I've seen that exact clip of Rick Rubin saying that he doesn't understand the technical side of things and doesn't play an instrument, not knowing that the word "Producer" is used as an umbrella term in this modern era of music making. Initially when I saw that clip, I figured what Rick Rubin was saying was that he doesn't mix anything in the box and- he's obviously an older gentleman- so he must just be an analog guy and that's what he meant by that. Nope. He's an actual PRODUCER. Makes sense why I keep writing songs and filling up my hard drive with project after project and never ever actually forming any complete ideas/concepts and finishing any songs/albums. TLDR: This whole time I've thought I was a producer; turns out, I need a producer!
These videos give me so much motivation and hope. I appreciate everything you do for the producers all over the world, especially newbies like me. It makes me have a clearer vision on how to approach things and also makes me realize that patience is key and to not stress the little things. If it sounds good, it sounds good! No overthinking, just doing what feels right in the context of the track and the journey I want to take listeners on. Thank you B!
Great video. For the track's "destination", I like to use a similar process to using a reference track for mixing. I'll pick 3 or 4 piano house tracks that I like, or 3 or 4 synthwave tracks, and my goal will be to create my own original track in a similar style, using those other tracks as a reference point along the way. If I check mine half-way through creating it and I hear that it no longer sounds anything like the reference tracks, I can use those tracks to help steer my track back in the right direction.
This is genuine and happens to any solo artist, you’ll struggle at one of these things or it’ll be weaker. For me, I can start ideas well, arrange them well, mix them and even master. But I struggle to go back and objectively view and change ideas. Or build beyond what I initially create. It’s like the blinkers come on and I can’t hear where a lead would be good, or ear candy, etc. so I have to make sure i have that in my first ideas. Having someone else come in and do that works well, and one collab i did recent that’s exactly how they took the track further. Definitely something to contemplate here.
Like many things that have not been good for the recording industry, this misuse of the term ‘producer’ can be laid at the feet of the audio engineering schools that sprung up in the 90s. At the time there were maybe 60 job openings worldwide in the big studios, basically the only places you could make a living wage as an engineer. But there were 60,000 students graduating each year. Usually bright eyed and bushy tailed kids whose parents had the money to help pay for Tom Misner’s next Porsche. Some of them had a lot of talent. Some did not. But towards the end of the decade as the internet started to take hold in the non techy world, these students and prospective students started to realise the maths didn’t add up. Uncoincidentally, around that time the lone creator started to call themselves a producer. It seemed like a promotion from engineer, especially when the traditional engineer role was shrinking to a handful of boomers as established pop and rock stars wanted to record things the old fashioned way but nobody else could afford it. The superstar DJ thing muddied the water a little bit too, although the idea that DJs had to do any more than twiddle a few knobs and spin a few discs on the technical side hadn’t yet happened. So they were closer to the traditional producer role and added value at the overview level, where a producer belongs. Back to the schools - around 2004 I started noticing a lot of young engineers were big on the ‘woo’. Silly beliefs and magical thinking. Not all, but these schools seemed to be a hotbed of this nonsense. Engineers traditionally fought to maintain the science and technological basis of their title and had the biggest bullshit detectors in the industry. But as the term engineer seemed to fade and everyone became a producer the grip on reality needed by the person operating seriously complex machinery went away as the machinery did .
Thanks mate, you've taught me a bit here. I appreciate the positive attitude you take here, going as far as to defend ghost producing. Awesome take and something I'll keep in the back of my head for sure from now on.
Another great video! Also, I totally agree with the value of feedback from someone who isn’t into music making, often those people notice or even persuade the whole track in the totally different way!
i'm gonna start giving my friend credit as a producer because he listens to my stuff and tells me it sucks because its doesnt have a girl singing sad shit
This video is a breakthrough moment for me. I have been making music for more than 10 years now and i havent released a single track because i believe that not a single track is finished but everytime i try to finish them i end up ruining the track. I now realise that i need a producer to do this and i am sitting on a goldmine of about 50 tracks that if realised to their full potential will finally make my dream come true...
2:40 what helps here, when alone: Sleep one night about it - then hear it again. You'll hear it like the guy coming into the room, hearing it for the "first" time (of the day).
Great video .... Something to ponder ... for sure ... Funnily enough when I'm painting I never lose sight of the bigger picture because of my pre determined method. Scetch - ink - imprementura - brown layer - grisaille - colour - done. I should apply something similar to the track creation process.
7:00 It's not normally the case, but there are examples in which the director, writer and the star is the same person: Charlie Chaplin, Woody Allen, Jaques Tati, Jackie Chan
There is a point of clairaudience bringing melodies and soundscapes deriving directly into and through an artist's mind, spirit, and soul through human creative expression that modern AI does not contain any of - and never has - in the decades long history of AI used in music generation.
I am way too green to have a take. But I think it makes sense. I am trying to blow life into my writings with an attempt at music. Naturally, I could never wear all those hats and be good at it. But the writings and inspiration came from the heart, and I will keep trying to achieve that one acceptable mix for them all.
Didn't Prince once ask a friend what he had to do to sell as many records as Michael Jackson? The friend suggested "get Quincy Jones to produce your records". Prince was offended by the suggestion and replied "I produce my own records".
Great tip, reminds me of Edward de Bono's book, Thinking Hats. I think that is a bit of the path that art is taking at this time, self-sufficiency as a way of bringing things to life, in the most competitive current context possible, everyone has something to say, although it is not always known exactly what say or how, if individualism is the paradigm of this era, everyone will do the best they can, without anyone giving a damn about it. Well, here we are, thinking, the biggest sin these days.
I can’t express how helpful this and the previous video have been in shifting my perspective on music making for the better. Learning the importance of these roles is about as eye opening as when I learned about functional harmony. What would you say an arranger actually does? I watched the 2 videos you made and the house of kush one as well and a couple others about arranging but I’m hearing different things and Quincy says a Motown arranger wrote the string part for thriller. Are they primarily writers or do they organize the song structure? I thought the writing of different parts was a whole separate process and then arranging would be like fitting the puzzle pieces together. Thanks in advance for all the help I’m really trying to level up as a producer and start taking my role more seriously.
Thanks great to hear it's opening your outlook 👊 Arrangement will be different in each genre. In Quincy's case, the arranger he hired was a string arranger and , specialist in Motown string arrangement. Because even if he wrote the string part, he would still need to know things like what articulation you tell the string players to play (staccato, legato, which technique they use to play the instrument) and also what frequency range is the violin played in, the arranger will know the lowest note on a violin is G3 etc. And if you want to go lower than that you'll need violas instead. Or does the sound work better in octaves. Basically a specialist in the instrument knowledge for a genre. In a modern electronic music context, arranging can be a similar process, like knowing when layer octaves in melodies, or harmonies of vocal parts, or layers in general like using a transient part Vs a soft sound. Knowing to speed up the vocal pace or raise the pitch for tension in the pre chorus. See my video on virtical arrangement. "Arrangement" these days typically refers to the start to finish structure. How long to run the intro, brakes drop, where to cut the bass, how long to build for depending on the intended crowd, (outdoors/ indoors , end of set or start of set) Spotify vs extended live. All those things.
@ apologies for the delay I just got back from a trip to Greece but thank you for this information! I’m trying to step away from the electronic only style I’ve been doing and start hiring real musicians to create a modern Latin sound that stays true to the roots. I’ve been inspired heavily by bossa nova and other popular Brazilian music from the 60s and 70s because they have such complex and beautiful harmonies and have an amazing balance of jazz and classical with Latin rhythms. Your videos are helping me orient myself and become a more structured artist with a true producers perspective it’s a shame that these ideas don’t have as much content as “top 5 mixing techniques for vocals” etc.
I can't think of a better example than Rick Rubin, who claims he can't play a single instrument, doesn't know any music theory, but has producer's credit on a number of amazing albums from a pretty wide range of genres. Rubin is just a guy who loves music and has a very good ear for what works and what doesn't. Besides, he seems to tickle the creative nerve of the artists he works with, as well as being able to express musical ideas in a very accessible way. I don't know if you can learn the craft from Rick Rubin though, because it seems to be all intuition.
Yeah I've been ruthless lately. Cut out whole section, removed and replaced drums. Took out solos I wrote. And I always give it a few days at least after it's" finished" before I render them. Or I'll do something, stop, and come back the next day to really hear its effect, sometimes I just like things on an emotional level,and I need that time to depersonalize it. And I ask do I really need to add this 3rd guitar part lol
i try to have technical knowledge, but up to a certain point. My technical knowledge must support my creativity. A lot of people nowadays confuse knowing technical things and being creative. There has been a race in certain styles who is the most technical, but i try to think out of the box with plugins, what can i do with it in a way it was not intended to be used. creativity is thinking outside all these things. i see very much people getting into a sort of tunnel vision about making music, because of all production tutorials that are on the net. A lot of these "production" influencers have one real incentive, that is making money. I do not care about someone telling me this kick is good and the other is not. I only use a DAW for recording. I cannot deal with the endless possibilities in these programs, im more the give-me-some-limitations guy. i make music on hardware and record it into ableton. That whole defining of writers, producers etc, comes more from an older studio setting, especially with bands etc. I think the term producer is right, because its just semantics. Recording writing etc engineering comes from a time when people could only get good recordings if you where on a big label that had its own studios. Nowadays these differences have faded somewhat because of technical development. I think electronic music did somewhat break that recording tradition, and you got the dj/producer. I find it to be a sad thing that production nowadays has less value for artists. Everybody wants to be a dj, and when you need some own tracks, there are a lot of possibilities to fix that. My heart is in the music making and dj'ing i only began with that 10 years later.
Something i do is i stop listening to the track for about a day or two. Then i come back and play it through a car radio or a bad phone device, preferably both stereo and mono if i can. Next time i hear the track in my headphones, i start hearing things that should be changed.
Everything you explained is me 😂 I write a song doubt myself so I add more to the track then my misses comes in and says" there's to much going on make it simple " and then I loose my s#%t have a think and then take stuff out and Yes !!! She was right ha my mixes became easier ,cleaner and less complex so my misses is my quincy 😂 great video BTW it makes alot of sense for me personally thankyou
Any chance we will see some 2 Step, Jungle or other UK related genre videos? Would love to see you break down some old Ninja Tune or Goldie tracks. Music creation has changed so much since the early days of tracking, sampling and the use of hardware synths so its really interesting to see the differences compared to today through the lens of someone with your knowledge. Cheers for the great content.
Producer is basically someone with great music taste, and DJ's are great at it because they know what works and what doesnt in the dancefloor. I wonder if you have any insight on who sets the trends or picks what genres are the "current thing".
It's a great question. Physical movements in culture used to set the trends but now there's strange things happening online. What dictates a genre trend (short term at least) can be as simple as how many pretty girls and boys are dancing to it on tiktok! Fundamental tribal behaviours haven't changed but now we have this in parallel too. I'm no expert sorry.
Oh yeah! I constantly in pain :) Always, i step back for a couple of days, do my buisness, comeback and cut.cut,cut and redo. Never there was a single track i made, leave as is and don't regret about it after couple of weeks. I don't agree we NEED a producer or EVERY track better with a producer, but i agree we need a revision of work done by someone, even yoursefl.
Since it's being a director, maybe writing a synopsis for the track would help. I envision a story for my tracks with a hero and villain having different musical motifs as themes. Or I imagine a monster for a horror film I want it to aound like. Example: a song I'm working starts with a scene of a vampire seducing a woman and biting her neck to drink her blood. After the first 16 bars ot changes to a scene of a vampire hunter gearing up. The build-up is outside in a storm. The hunter is approaching the church, walking through the graveyard, and the drop is when he kicks the door through and starts shooting. This vision helps me direct the vibe of the track.
Maybe you could say this is like imagining a music video for your music as you're making it. I've been inspired to do this ever since I saw the Music video to Killsonik - Bloodlust.
I just made it. It was a simple exercise in modal modulation that I thought would make a nice chill track with an inspiring mood. It'll be released soon.
@BurnBabylon_Selecta the executive producer is just the head of all the producers on a project, has the last say and is in charge of overall creative consistency
Executive producer is the person who makes the final calls. There may be other sub producers under them. Like there are dedicated vocal producers who just helped singers produce the vocal before it even gets shopped to any 'executive ' producers
Imo, If you have no reputation yet , or vast amounts of money, then a record label can't help you with either. With 200,000 tracks released every day , it's taking big labels over 2 million to break an artist today , and they simply aren't bothering. They'd rather sign someone on the back of a viral tiktok trend than try to break an artist themselves it's too risky. So you gotta go solo, but that's always better imo. You get to build a real fan base not a fake one, you get to control your rights not a corporation , and you get to keep all the revenue not 10%. It's tough, and slow, but far more sustainable and less restrictive. I've seen deals from indie record labels recently offering $50 for 25 years of full ownership or 80%. And all they will do is throw it up on their channels and some playlists that are full of bots because they've never curated or cared about curating a genuine audience. In terms of when. Start releasing tomorrow. Seriously just start. There's a lot to learn about everything way beyond the music itself, not just releasing either, there's also branding, story telling, etc. But regardless having your tracks out there in front of real people is more feedback than you'll ever get from a record label a&r!
Definitely not a rant. I always find it valuable to listen to sense being spoken, even if the information can be new and shocking - not that yours was shocking.
Hi, mini sound design challenge for your next live stream. Could you recreate the (iconic) 303 bark from. 'U i got the feeling' by Scot Project. V mix .?
I got a bit hypnotised watching Span counting 60 billion true peak clips in 12 minutes. Quincy Jones' finest tape-op couldn't achieve anything that impressive.
Я так и не понял мысль автора.Да процесс создания музыки в тории правильно разделить.Но в современных реалиях вся индустрия идёт к тому,что запись будет на дому.Так в чем проблема? Знаете если бы не было информации как создавать музыку то было бы сложнее,а так всё есть в открытом доступе.Но качество от этого всё равно не выросло.И пробиться в музыке сейчас нереально совсем.Рынок уже полон хорошими записями.Подумайте лучше над тем как быть оригинальными.
Author's idea; Making music is not the same as production. Home or big studio does not matter. Originality is still important and that decision is part of production , but it is not the whole idea. Production is the larger decisions made outside of the music and engineering that make the music translate to the real world.
Four tet never said anything about skrillex or fred taking a long time to pick out a kick, he just said the thing about being intimidated by skrillex speed and you made it sound like four tet said that last part as well
i find that rick rubin rubs people the wrong way because he's so humble, also mystical about it. but really, if you hear him, he's just saying "i help people get to the root of their brand and how to express that, i don't get in the way, i trim and facilitate." which is much harder than it seems. these days people tend to conflate producing sounds with producing a PRODUCT. in the great irony of today's autonomy, we are able to do everything ourselves so fast and so little cost that the blessing became a curse, suddenly, whilst being the engineer, session musician, arranger, artist for the cover, we could not dare having somebody give us notes on what to remove, what to change, who is this supposed to be speaking to. there is this great opposition between "well i do what i want, surely some people will have a taste similar as mine and will appreciate it" and "i have to find my people or else i will be in my bedroom forever"
Everyone is trying to convince artists that everyone else is needed. That isn't the case. The fact is many ppl aren't any of those things and just want quick money so they exploit every shortcut. Everything around music is subjective and relative but not law.
@Bthelick it still is regardless. The only thing different when making a living is the mindset of the person making the music and what their purpose is vs what they're willing to do instead.
I would argue the only part about art that isn’t subjective when it comes to making money, is doing taxes. In essence there are not other “rules”, only consistent and beneficial observations.
@@ghost-user559 I don't understand how the government tax system is a factor? it's different in every territory. I mean it it's paying the bills then that proves it's working to enough other people to matter. I don't include any gaming of schemes in that I mean organically.
@@Bthelick Well that’s kind of my point. If the sum total of a persons art is that they can afford to live, and that is all done ethically, then that’s the only “rule” in art. The rest is all observations ultimately, many of which are fairly consistent observations regardless of genre or time period. Everything else is subjective. The only really objective part is the “business side”. The rest is basically just good practice, but not strictly speaking a “rule”. Hence how we get new genres and hybrids between genres.
Funny that I found this video the same morning I decided to ditch a whole track from the album I'm working on because I finally came to terms with it not fitting the rest of the songs. I worked on it for a looong time. I wrote the various parts, I mixed it and I was getting ready to master it but I always had this feeling that it just doesn't fit the theme.Sorry "Urban Walks" you go in the drawer with some other old friends. We might see each other one day. (But damn that clean guitar sound so good though...)
Nope. That's engineering. Okay this is the point of the video because people are not aware. Engineering is one possible solution to a production decision. They are not the same thing at all. I suggest you actually watch the video because I explained this right at the beginning. I even gave an EQ example in the middle.
Producer is something what changed a bit over time. Writers performers engineer producer mastering engineer manager label manager record company studio time... Old norm. Still works today but we cannot deny that different role can be done by one person (writing, producing, mixing and fuck yeah even mastering.) In my perception the producer from bat out off hell is the proper example. Performer, engineer who pushed the songs next level. Todd engaged with the briljant but unsuitable songs. So Jim Steinman and Meatloaf were on to something but without Todd there would never have been a great record. Todd is not a producer like Rick Rubin Todd plays and has tech skills. So producers are the key figures making something from nothing..... Where Meat and Jim needed a producer today standards are lower and different. Knowledge is available and tech as well so that compasates for lack of brilliant musical minds
@Bthelick His name is brought up often. It's believed that he did to Diddy, what Diddy did to others. Just a vicious cycle. And I even remember hearing that this craziness dates back to even Dizzie Gillespie. It's all just speculation, but when that info comes from multiple sources, it can't be just brushed off or swept under the rug.
I'm just tryna crank frq cut-off knobs n sh*t, not be a smarty pants about everything. Still, a Kiran would be nice. Or any friends at all 😭🤪😐 excellent video.
I think this is an easier way to put it. The Producer has a good understanding of what needs to be removed that the engineer's added to make a more coherent and memorable experience. Instead of the engineering side of you just throwing more at it and just ending up with a wall of sound thats so overwhelming it has no direction.
A good engineer should also be the one to look out for what to remove. Bruce Sewdien was especially good at this. It's more that the producer knows the destination more than the rest imo
Fair enough. I can only speak from experience. And that experience is 15 years doing music professionally, with music being my only income. And this is just what I know works.
@Bthelick. As a producer, can't you hear that your background music is way too loud in comparison to your speaking? I personally, hear ALL TH-cam videos on 1.75 speed (to save time), and the background music in this case, drives me crazy on 1.75 speed. This is NOT your speaking, but your producing. Just thought I'd mention this for your better understanding.
I see Bthelick… I BtheClick
FACTS
The best thing a bedroom producer can do to evaluate their track with a Producer mindset is to listen to the track while working or otherwise occupied. The track will sound totally different, I promise. Playing the whole track and then repeating the listening process is equally valid here because it keeps you from looping a section (easily, anyways). You have to walk through the whole track again, noticing and re noticing. I find that this is when the Idea of the track may, for the first time, become truly apparent to the bedroom producer. From there, the vision can be modified in the studio. Rinse and repeat as needed. Great video. Great channel.
Yes. This. I agree 100%. My favorite thing to do is to go for a drive and have my track playing normally in the background as if it's on Pandora / SiriusXM. Even better, I'll put someone else's track that I like first in a playlist, and my track next, and just cruise in the car. If the two songs blend nicely, things are going in the right direction.
especially if you have the patience to put things on a back-shelf and only release things that make it back from there.,.,.,
Interesting idea.
Totally. I now have the discipline of doing a bounce after every session which I then listen away from my studio. I might be walking or cooking, I might listen to it downstairs in my living room or on my iPhone and I sometimes share these early cuts with friends. The keywords here are objectivity and strategy.
Also, I will regularly take a break from one piece and switch to another that also helps with objectivity and strategy. The hardest thing can be the decision to take away things. One track I had had an entire section removed which a family member recommended and that was uncountable hours of work thrown away but was fit the best, and another time in my own experience, I removed the very things that the track started with as the piece had moved in a completely new direction. The objectivity means it’s harder to be attached to the effort, as your video talks about.
I have an old copy of iTunes specifically for making a playlist of all current tracks. At first it’s obviously just a few songs that get repeated in a short session. As the track count grows, the playlist reaches hours in length and then I turn on shuffle. Every time I notice something out of place in the mix or arrangement, or something that is really good, I take a mental note. All of these mix notes culminate after 100 or so hours listening to the playlist in the background, and then I go back and refine all the rough mixes and apply the notes. Then the playlist starts again for a “final mix”, and then finally a “Master Playlist”. By mixing all the tracks as one “playlist” it keeps the mixes consistent across albums, because they all flow as one giant compilation.
Dude THANK YOU, seriously! I feel like such an idiot for not knowing this. I've seen that exact clip of Rick Rubin saying that he doesn't understand the technical side of things and doesn't play an instrument, not knowing that the word "Producer" is used as an umbrella term in this modern era of music making. Initially when I saw that clip, I figured what Rick Rubin was saying was that he doesn't mix anything in the box and- he's obviously an older gentleman- so he must just be an analog guy and that's what he meant by that. Nope. He's an actual PRODUCER. Makes sense why I keep writing songs and filling up my hard drive with project after project and never ever actually forming any complete ideas/concepts and finishing any songs/albums.
TLDR:
This whole time I've thought I was a producer; turns out, I need a producer!
These videos give me so much motivation and hope. I appreciate everything you do for the producers all over the world, especially newbies like me. It makes me have a clearer vision on how to approach things and also makes me realize that patience is key and to not stress the little things. If it sounds good, it sounds good! No overthinking, just doing what feels right in the context of the track and the journey I want to take listeners on. Thank you B!
Great video. For the track's "destination", I like to use a similar process to using a reference track for mixing. I'll pick 3 or 4 piano house tracks that I like, or 3 or 4 synthwave tracks, and my goal will be to create my own original track in a similar style, using those other tracks as a reference point along the way. If I check mine half-way through creating it and I hear that it no longer sounds anything like the reference tracks, I can use those tracks to help steer my track back in the right direction.
This is genuine and happens to any solo artist, you’ll struggle at one of these things or it’ll be weaker. For me, I can start ideas well, arrange them well, mix them and even master. But I struggle to go back and objectively view and change ideas. Or build beyond what I initially create. It’s like the blinkers come on and I can’t hear where a lead would be good, or ear candy, etc. so I have to make sure i have that in my first ideas. Having someone else come in and do that works well, and one collab i did recent that’s exactly how they took the track further. Definitely something to contemplate here.
Learning to zoom in and sculpt the details then zoom out and see the big picture is good advice Ive heard!
If you're a bedroom creator & producer the two most important words are *Compare Compare Compare Reference Reference Reference*
Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I started with making electronic music, and this helps a lot!
You are THE GOAT. I'm so grateful to thou for sharing such invaluable wisdom! ❤
Like many things that have not been good for the recording industry, this misuse of the term ‘producer’ can be laid at the feet of the audio engineering schools that sprung up in the 90s.
At the time there were maybe 60 job openings worldwide in the big studios, basically the only places you could make a living wage as an engineer. But there were 60,000 students graduating each year. Usually bright eyed and bushy tailed kids whose parents had the money to help pay for Tom Misner’s next Porsche. Some of them had a lot of talent. Some did not. But towards the end of the decade as the internet started to take hold in the non techy world, these students and prospective students started to realise the maths didn’t add up. Uncoincidentally, around that time the lone creator started to call themselves a producer. It seemed like a promotion from engineer, especially when the traditional engineer role was shrinking to a handful of boomers as established pop and rock stars wanted to record things the old fashioned way but nobody else could afford it. The superstar DJ thing muddied the water a little bit too, although the idea that DJs had to do any more than twiddle a few knobs and spin a few discs on the technical side hadn’t yet happened. So they were closer to the traditional producer role and added value at the overview level, where a producer belongs.
Back to the schools - around 2004 I started noticing a lot of young engineers were big on the ‘woo’. Silly beliefs and magical thinking. Not all, but these schools seemed to be a hotbed of this nonsense. Engineers traditionally fought to maintain the science and technological basis of their title and had the biggest bullshit detectors in the industry. But as the term engineer seemed to fade and everyone became a producer the grip on reality needed by the person operating seriously complex machinery went away as the machinery did .
Thanks mate, you've taught me a bit here. I appreciate the positive attitude you take here, going as far as to defend ghost producing. Awesome take and something I'll keep in the back of my head for sure from now on.
Another great video! Also, I totally agree with the value of feedback from someone who isn’t into music making, often those people notice or even persuade the whole track in the totally different way!
i'm gonna start giving my friend credit as a producer because he listens to my stuff and tells me it sucks because its doesnt have a girl singing sad shit
I appreciate the clarification. It's what in publishing would be called an editor, or rather, a good editor.
This video is a breakthrough moment for me. I have been making music for more than 10 years now and i havent released a single track because i believe that not a single track is finished but everytime i try to finish them i end up ruining the track. I now realise that i need a producer to do this and i am sitting on a goldmine of about 50 tracks that if realised to their full potential will finally make my dream come true...
2:40 what helps here, when alone: Sleep one night about it - then hear it again. You'll hear it like the guy coming into the room, hearing it for the "first" time (of the day).
Totally agree! It's working wonders for me!
Thank you!
Great explanation.. and what a nice, chill track playing in the background 😀
You are awesome. I learn a lot with you. And I'm not even a music maker!
8:47 I've always dreamt of my music taking me to Korea
😂,
North or South?
Thanks for the perspective! You somehow always post exactly what I need to hear.
Oh man.. you again... brilliant as always.
Great video .... Something to ponder ... for sure ... Funnily enough when I'm painting I never lose sight of the bigger picture because of my pre determined method. Scetch - ink - imprementura - brown layer - grisaille - colour - done. I should apply something similar to the track creation process.
7:00 It's not normally the case, but there are examples in which the director, writer and the star is the same person: Charlie Chaplin, Woody Allen, Jaques Tati, Jackie Chan
Thank you for that! It's by far the best overall music tip I'v seen.
“What is this in service of?” - the fundamental producers’ query. This applies to film and media, generally.
There is a point of clairaudience bringing melodies and soundscapes deriving directly into and through an artist's mind, spirit, and soul through human creative expression that modern AI does not contain any of - and never has - in the decades long history of AI used in music generation.
I am way too green to have a take.
But I think it makes sense. I am trying to blow life into my writings with an attempt at music. Naturally, I could never wear all those hats and be good at it. But the writings and inspiration came from the heart, and I will keep trying to achieve that one acceptable mix for them all.
Didn't Prince once ask a friend what he had to do to sell as many records as Michael Jackson? The friend suggested "get Quincy Jones to produce your records". Prince was offended by the suggestion and replied "I produce my own records".
Yes. Well prince is probably one of only 5 people in the history of the planet to successfully self produce at that level.
Great tip, reminds me of Edward de Bono's book, Thinking Hats.
I think that is a bit of the path that art is taking at this time, self-sufficiency as a way of bringing things to life, in the most competitive current context possible, everyone has something to say, although it is not always known exactly what say or how, if individualism is the paradigm of this era, everyone will do the best they can, without anyone giving a damn about it. Well, here we are, thinking, the biggest sin these days.
Awareness is indeed the key to real art , nice little debate / joke / story into reality
Great insights as always! Keep doing what you do best
The background track is the true star of this video
I can’t express how helpful this and the previous video have been in shifting my perspective on music making for the better. Learning the importance of these roles is about as eye opening as when I learned about functional harmony.
What would you say an arranger actually does? I watched the 2 videos you made and the house of kush one as well and a couple others about arranging but I’m hearing different things and Quincy says a Motown arranger wrote the string part for thriller. Are they primarily writers or do they organize the song structure? I thought the writing of different parts was a whole separate process and then arranging would be like fitting the puzzle pieces together.
Thanks in advance for all the help I’m really trying to level up as a producer and start taking my role more seriously.
Thanks great to hear it's opening your outlook 👊
Arrangement will be different in each genre.
In Quincy's case, the arranger he hired was a string arranger and , specialist in Motown string arrangement. Because even if he wrote the string part, he would still need to know things like what articulation you tell the string players to play (staccato, legato, which technique they use to play the instrument) and also what frequency range is the violin played in, the arranger will know the lowest note on a violin is G3 etc. And if you want to go lower than that you'll need violas instead. Or does the sound work better in octaves.
Basically a specialist in the instrument knowledge for a genre.
In a modern electronic music context, arranging can be a similar process, like knowing when layer octaves in melodies, or harmonies of vocal parts, or layers in general like using a transient part Vs a soft sound. Knowing to speed up the vocal pace or raise the pitch for tension in the pre chorus.
See my video on virtical arrangement.
"Arrangement" these days typically refers to the start to finish structure. How long to run the intro, brakes drop, where to cut the bass, how long to build for depending on the intended crowd, (outdoors/ indoors , end of set or start of set) Spotify vs extended live. All those things.
@ apologies for the delay I just got back from a trip to Greece but thank you for this information! I’m trying to step away from the electronic only style I’ve been doing and start hiring real musicians to create a modern Latin sound that stays true to the roots. I’ve been inspired heavily by bossa nova and other popular Brazilian music from the 60s and 70s because they have such complex and beautiful harmonies and have an amazing balance of jazz and classical with Latin rhythms. Your videos are helping me orient myself and become a more structured artist with a true producers perspective it’s a shame that these ideas don’t have as much content as “top 5 mixing techniques for vocals” etc.
Well said. Subscribed.
I can't think of a better example than Rick Rubin, who claims he can't play a single instrument, doesn't know any music theory, but has producer's credit on a number of amazing albums from a pretty wide range of genres.
Rubin is just a guy who loves music and has a very good ear for what works and what doesn't. Besides, he seems to tickle the creative nerve of the artists he works with, as well as being able to express musical ideas in a very accessible way.
I don't know if you can learn the craft from Rick Rubin though, because it seems to be all intuition.
Great insights, man. And the music was much better than in the first part. For everything else I'd like to refer to the first part.
love this guy!
Yeah I've been ruthless lately. Cut out whole section, removed and replaced drums. Took out solos I wrote. And I always give it a few days at least after it's" finished" before I render them. Or I'll do something, stop, and come back the next day to really hear its effect, sometimes I just like things on an emotional level,and I need that time to depersonalize it. And I ask do I really need to add this 3rd guitar part lol
i try to have technical knowledge, but up to a certain point. My technical knowledge must support my creativity. A lot of people nowadays confuse knowing technical things and being creative. There has been a race in certain styles who is the most technical, but i try to think out of the box with plugins, what can i do with it in a way it was not intended to be used. creativity is thinking outside all these things. i see very much people getting into a sort of tunnel vision about making music, because of all production tutorials that are on the net. A lot of these "production" influencers have one real incentive, that is making money. I do not care about someone telling me this kick is good and the other is not. I only use a DAW for recording. I cannot deal with the endless possibilities in these programs, im more the give-me-some-limitations guy. i make music on hardware and record it into ableton. That whole defining of writers, producers etc, comes more from an older studio setting, especially with bands etc. I think the term producer is right, because its just semantics. Recording writing etc engineering comes from a time when people could only get good recordings if you where on a big label that had its own studios. Nowadays these differences have faded somewhat because of technical development. I think electronic music did somewhat break that recording tradition, and you got the dj/producer. I find it to be a sad thing that production nowadays has less value for artists. Everybody wants to be a dj, and when you need some own tracks, there are a lot of possibilities to fix that. My heart is in the music making and dj'ing i only began with that 10 years later.
I use eq in my production process! I often use filters when getting the right synthesizer sound.
That's sound design
@Bthelick I might spend some more time leaning about that
Something i do is i stop listening to the track for about a day or two.
Then i come back and play it through a car radio or a bad phone device, preferably both stereo and mono if i can.
Next time i hear the track in my headphones, i start hearing things that should be changed.
Everything you explained is me 😂 I write a song doubt myself so I add more to the track then my misses comes in and says" there's to much going on make it simple " and then I loose my s#%t have a think and then take stuff out and Yes !!! She was right ha my mixes became easier ,cleaner and less complex so my misses is my quincy 😂 great video BTW it makes alot of sense for me personally thankyou
Any chance we will see some 2 Step, Jungle or other UK related genre videos? Would love to see you break down some old Ninja Tune or Goldie tracks. Music creation has changed so much since the early days of tracking, sampling and the use of hardware synths so its really interesting to see the differences compared to today through the lens of someone with your knowledge.
Cheers for the great content.
Definitely, I'm mid research on all era that right now
Great as always 😃
So nice to listen to your knowledge. By the way: I love the music in the background 🧡🔥
Producer is basically someone with great music taste, and DJ's are great at it because they know what works and what doesnt in the dancefloor.
I wonder if you have any insight on who sets the trends or picks what genres are the "current thing".
It's a great question. Physical movements in culture used to set the trends but now there's strange things happening online.
What dictates a genre trend (short term at least) can be as simple as how many pretty girls and boys are dancing to it on tiktok!
Fundamental tribal behaviours haven't changed but now we have this in parallel too.
I'm no expert sorry.
Oh yeah! I constantly in pain :) Always, i step back for a couple of days, do my buisness, comeback and cut.cut,cut and redo. Never there was a single track i made, leave as is and don't regret about it after couple of weeks. I don't agree we NEED a producer or EVERY track better with a producer, but i agree we need a revision of work done by someone, even yoursefl.
I honestly love your videos bro, please make a video on how to make music in the style of Morgan seatree
Your videos are top notch!!!!
Since it's being a director, maybe writing a synopsis for the track would help. I envision a story for my tracks with a hero and villain having different musical motifs as themes. Or I imagine a monster for a horror film I want it to aound like. Example: a song I'm working starts with a scene of a vampire seducing a woman and biting her neck to drink her blood. After the first 16 bars ot changes to a scene of a vampire hunter gearing up. The build-up is outside in a storm. The hunter is approaching the church, walking through the graveyard, and the drop is when he kicks the door through and starts shooting.
This vision helps me direct the vibe of the track.
Maybe you could say this is like imagining a music video for your music as you're making it. I've been inspired to do this ever since I saw the Music video to Killsonik - Bloodlust.
What a legend, as always! 🙏🏼
Anyone know the track playing in the back? Reminds me of Everything In It’s Right Place by Radiohead.
I just made it. It was a simple exercise in modal modulation that I thought would make a nice chill track with an inspiring mood.
It'll be released soon.
@@Bthelick Love it man, Video is great too as per 👍
Once I finally get the time machine assembled, I'm hiring you to teach me this 20 years ago :)
Whats the name of the background track? What a trip it is
it's not named yet, I just made it for this. It will probably release early next year now as I'll got releases planned for every week until then.
There is nothing like it; those chord changes are amazing
Bit of a radiohead vibe to it
Imagine critiquing Britney Spears for being GHOST PRODUCED 👻 DJs are pop stars now… it is how it is!!
Great reminder as always.
This explains Rick Rubins whole deal
This is why people who make fun of DJ Khaled don't understand what exactly he is doing. He's a great producer in the original sense.
I thought that he’s role was executive producer, which at this point I’ve got no idea what that means! 😂
@BurnBabylon_Selecta the executive producer is just the head of all the producers on a project, has the last say and is in charge of overall creative consistency
Executive producer is the person who makes the final calls.
There may be other sub producers under them. Like there are dedicated vocal producers who just helped singers produce the vocal before it even gets shopped to any 'executive ' producers
Absolute fantastic work. Could you tell us bedroom producers when is the time to start sending songs to record labels or start publishing on our own?
Imo, If you have no reputation yet , or vast amounts of money, then a record label can't help you with either. With 200,000 tracks released every day , it's taking big labels over 2 million to break an artist today , and they simply aren't bothering.
They'd rather sign someone on the back of a viral tiktok trend than try to break an artist themselves it's too risky.
So you gotta go solo, but that's always better imo. You get to build a real fan base not a fake one, you get to control your rights not a corporation , and you get to keep all the revenue not 10%.
It's tough, and slow, but far more sustainable and less restrictive.
I've seen deals from indie record labels recently offering $50 for 25 years of full ownership or 80%. And all they will do is throw it up on their channels and some playlists that are full of bots because they've never curated or cared about curating a genuine audience.
In terms of when.
Start releasing tomorrow. Seriously just start. There's a lot to learn about everything way beyond the music itself, not just releasing either, there's also branding, story telling, etc.
But regardless having your tracks out there in front of real people is more feedback than you'll ever get from a record label a&r!
Hey….tarantino writes the script AND stars in it 😬😬🙈😂
Definitely not a rant. I always find it valuable to listen to sense being spoken, even if the information can be new and shocking - not that yours was shocking.
Hi, mini sound design challenge for your next live stream. Could you recreate the (iconic) 303 bark from. 'U i got the feeling' by Scot Project. V mix .?
I agree with the title actually.
I got a bit hypnotised watching Span counting 60 billion true peak clips in 12 minutes. Quincy Jones' finest tape-op couldn't achieve anything that impressive.
Я так и не понял мысль автора.Да процесс создания музыки в тории правильно разделить.Но в современных реалиях вся индустрия идёт к тому,что запись будет на дому.Так в чем проблема? Знаете если бы не было информации как создавать музыку то было бы сложнее,а так всё есть в открытом доступе.Но качество от этого всё равно не выросло.И пробиться в музыке сейчас нереально совсем.Рынок уже полон хорошими записями.Подумайте лучше над тем как быть оригинальными.
Author's idea;
Making music is not the same as production.
Home or big studio does not matter.
Originality is still important and that decision is part of production , but it is not the whole idea.
Production is the larger decisions made outside of the music and engineering that make the music translate to the real world.
Four tet never said anything about skrillex or fred taking a long time to pick out a kick, he just said the thing about being intimidated by skrillex speed and you made it sound like four tet said that last part as well
There's multiple interviews on that channel, he did talk about it
Holy shit I am all in on this channel 4:30
i find that rick rubin rubs people the wrong way because he's so humble, also mystical about it. but really, if you hear him, he's just saying "i help people get to the root of their brand and how to express that, i don't get in the way, i trim and facilitate." which is much harder than it seems.
these days people tend to conflate producing sounds with producing a PRODUCT. in the great irony of today's autonomy, we are able to do everything ourselves so fast and so little cost that the blessing became a curse, suddenly, whilst being the engineer, session musician, arranger, artist for the cover, we could not dare having somebody give us notes on what to remove, what to change, who is this supposed to be speaking to.
there is this great opposition between "well i do what i want, surely some people will have a taste similar as mine and will appreciate it" and "i have to find my people or else i will be in my bedroom forever"
The Masters at Work are good examples of this, in my opinion.
Absolutely !
And begin !
Great video.
Everyone is trying to convince artists that everyone else is needed. That isn't the case. The fact is many ppl aren't any of those things and just want quick money so they exploit every shortcut. Everything around music is subjective and relative but not law.
Art is indeed subjective, until it comes to making it for a living.
@Bthelick it still is regardless. The only thing different when making a living is the mindset of the person making the music and what their purpose is vs what they're willing to do instead.
I would argue the only part about art that isn’t subjective when it comes to making money, is doing taxes. In essence there are not other “rules”, only consistent and beneficial observations.
@@ghost-user559 I don't understand how the government tax system is a factor?
it's different in every territory. I mean it it's paying the bills then that proves it's working to enough other people to matter. I don't include any gaming of schemes in that I mean organically.
@@Bthelick Well that’s kind of my point. If the sum total of a persons art is that they can afford to live, and that is all done ethically, then that’s the only “rule” in art. The rest is all observations ultimately, many of which are fairly consistent observations regardless of genre or time period. Everything else is subjective. The only really objective part is the “business side”. The rest is basically just good practice, but not strictly speaking a “rule”. Hence how we get new genres and hybrids between genres.
6:30 gospel
Funny that I found this video the same morning I decided to ditch a whole track from the album I'm working on because I finally came to terms with it not fitting the rest of the songs. I worked on it for a looong time. I wrote the various parts, I mixed it and I was getting ready to master it but I always had this feeling that it just doesn't fit the theme.Sorry "Urban Walks" you go in the drawer with some other old friends. We might see each other one day. (But damn that clean guitar sound so good though...)
Eq is part of production
Nope. That's engineering. Okay this is the point of the video because people are not aware.
Engineering is one possible solution to a production decision. They are not the same thing at all.
I suggest you actually watch the video because I explained this right at the beginning. I even gave an EQ example in the middle.
00:58 I woulda lost it if you used Rick Beato’s thumbnail of him recreating this meme. 🤣
So producer forces all of them to make an 8 bar loop and leaves the room? Then someone calls him to come back to make sure everything is fookin' lit?
I would love to have a second pair of ears to listen to my work. But no one is interested lol.
Well that's a separate battle!
If it was a free DL on SoundCloud or Garage band.. It might help in the long run?
@@Ryanez93 my work is on SoundCloud. 😎
“Press a button or 2 for me” sorry, I’m a producer, that’s not my job! 😋
Producer is something what changed a bit over time. Writers performers engineer producer mastering engineer manager label manager record company studio time... Old norm. Still works today but we cannot deny that different role can be done by one person (writing, producing, mixing and fuck yeah even mastering.) In my perception the producer from bat out off hell is the proper example. Performer, engineer who pushed the songs next level. Todd engaged with the briljant but unsuitable songs. So Jim Steinman and Meatloaf were on to something but without Todd there would never have been a great record. Todd is not a producer like Rick Rubin Todd plays and has tech skills. So producers are the key figures making something from nothing..... Where Meat and Jim needed a producer today standards are lower and different. Knowledge is available and tech as well so that compasates for lack of brilliant musical minds
Yup, no better feeling than sharing the 2 bucks from 3 million streams with 4 other dudes.
If you're getting that rate you need to sign better contracts!
Quincy Jones...implicated in the Diddy case.
Your joking? Oh my timing is impeccable huh. 🤦♂️
@Bthelick His name is brought up often. It's believed that he did to Diddy, what Diddy did to others. Just a vicious cycle. And I even remember hearing that this craziness dates back to even Dizzie Gillespie. It's all just speculation, but when that info comes from multiple sources, it can't be just brushed off or swept under the rug.
I use my kids. If they don't dance to it, I delete it immediately
2:20 subbed
Thumbnail made me 😂😭😅
(As a songwriter and latent producer in the sense you intend)
My girlfriend has played this role many times.
I'm just tryna crank frq cut-off knobs n sh*t, not be a smarty pants about everything. Still, a Kiran would be nice. Or any friends at all 😭🤪😐 excellent video.
I think this is an easier way to put it. The Producer has a good understanding of what needs to be removed that the engineer's added to make a more coherent and memorable experience. Instead of the engineering side of you just throwing more at it and just ending up with a wall of sound thats so overwhelming it has no direction.
a producer isn’t only going to suggest removing things
A good engineer should also be the one to look out for what to remove. Bruce Sewdien was especially good at this.
It's more that the producer knows the destination more than the rest imo
This sentence kills every student nowadays: go study 📚
🙏🙏
Goddamn how rude can you be to kieran, he is an incredible musician...
😄
you sound a lot like that other guy i already subbed to.,.,., er.,., XD XD
Who's that?
No, sorry . I don’t trust you.
Fair enough. I can only speak from experience. And that experience is 15 years doing music professionally, with music being my only income. And this is just what I know works.
@ I was just kidding. I have decided to let you live. NOW GET BACK TO WORK AND WRITE ME A MASTERPIECE!
Ahhh ha.
This sounds like an argument for using AI music generators and calling yourself producer 🤔
That would technically be production yes!
@Bthelick. As a producer, can't you hear that your background music is way too loud in comparison to your speaking? I personally, hear ALL TH-cam videos on 1.75 speed (to save time), and the background music in this case, drives me crazy on 1.75 speed. This is NOT your speaking, but your producing. Just thought I'd mention this for your better understanding.
Lol thanks. You're the first to say it , but I'll keep an eye on it.
You listening on a phone by any chance?
the fact this man hasn't revealed his face and WILL NOT reveal his face, is a giant red flag we're listening to a rant by AI. This man is AI.
🤣 ya got me!
most of the channels are fully grown dudes making thumbnails with their mouth open 😱😱😱😱😱
I think one AI channel is a nice change