Sokka is the equivalent of the "crouching moron hidden badass" trope but more so "crouching moron hidden genius" and really I love that about his character.
I think that would describe Joseph Joestar as well. At least young Joseph. He seems like a childish goof until you realize that he's somehow been 6 steps ahead of you the whole time.
Helps when the setting is filled with what are essentially, in tabletop terms, charisma and wisdom (or he’ll even constitution if we look to Pathfinder kineticists) casters instead of intelligent casters like wizards. In Avatar bending is genetic (or some leyline or spirit bs; I’ve dumped lots of Kora lore memories frankly) so outside of learning techniques there’s a distinct lack of bookworms throwing super novas at the local library. Giant spirit owl notwithstanding.
It helps that magic in Avatar is much more esoteric. Bending is very tactile with the more out there, spiritual techniques like astral projection being very rare outside of the Avatar and Airbenders like Zaheer and Jinora. (And Iroh but of course HE can do what almost no one else can.) Because bending is rooted in martial arts, the more mystical aspects are more about philosophy and mindset than understanding and deciphering codified systems as wizards and such are typically portrayed in the “magic as science” conception. BUT because bending and spirits are so intangible on a fundamental level, Sokka excels at the tangible. What he can quantify, grasp, wrap his head around. So he can do many things from engineering, to poetry, to tactics, to investigation.
Probably a result of avatar’s magic system being So combat based, you CANT be a glass canon AND a bender, because in Avatar, the line between being a physical powerhouse And a magical powerhouse gets real blurry.
@@John1045 from what i can tell, the man was mostly talking in dungeons and dragons or video game terms. charisma and wisdom or constitution for very some extremely obscure or niche classes is how the power and efficiency of spell classes other than wizard are determined in dungeons &Dragons. rather than intelligence or knowledge people who use spells that aren't wizards use different ways in order to do magic that isn't studying. he is basically comparing benders in avatar to these types of spell casters since their powers are more inherent or come from a source that isn't knowledge and studying.
What's neat about Sokka is that he's almost a tactical version of the Avatar. While Aang is learning bending, Sokka is learning strategies from all over the world.
He isn't really even the smart guy starting out, at least not especially obviously. It really seems to kick in around Kiyoshi Island where he gets humbled by the Kiyoshi Warriors and has to swallow his pride and admit his wordview is flawed and there is still a lot he has to learn.
That "smart guy being an antisocial jerk" trope is probably my biggest reason why Senku from Dr. Stone is one of my favorite smart characters of all time. It's very subversive, I think truly intelligent people would know to be kind to others.
I really like how Senku is one billion percent a paragon, but he has totally villainous mannerisms. That, and he's a master of finding a solution to difficult situations that's both the most practical and the most ethical. Usually smart guys are the ones who present the leader with a choice between two terrible options. Senku is several times presented with choices like that, but he uses his smarts to find another, better option.
@@zoro115-s6b Senku taps into my favorite trope of all time: Taking the Third Option. When done with a dumb or just outwardly not-so-intelligent character it can have a nasty habit of seeming like an ass-pull if not set up properly. But when done with a convincingly well-done, intelligent character it can be the most hype thing in existence. It channels the perfect amount of the Diogenes spirit of “fuck you” to the villain, plot, and world at large. It’s also hilarious when my Wizard (or the party Bard/other player duo) gets one over on the DM. Though funny enough my current character that does this is my conspiracy theory nut Warlock Sorcerer.
I just like that senku is self-confident. He understands his limits and works around them and that's it. He's also not supremely good at all things brainy since the mentalist guy whose name I forget rn has got senku brocking (explaining things in long-winded ways that are clearly addressed to a less-informed audience, similar to what brock from the pokemon anime does) at least a couple of times. Chrome and him also brock for senku several times, showing how each has a different intellectual strength. Because intellect isn't about a singular INT stat making you smarter or not. People have strong suits and weak suits, both in the knowledge aspect of the deal and the application of knowledge.
I think your comment touches on an important point of people's perception of what intelligence is and looks like. I love your conception of it includes understanding the importance of being kind to others.
This reminds me of Azimuth from Ben 10, it is said that every single incarnation of him across the Multiverse is a good guy because "he is too smart to be evil"
"You see, Perry the Platypus, I realised that the reason I never succeed in conquering THE ENTIRE. TRI. STATE. AREA! is because while my inators are brilliant, my plans for how to use them are, well, not good. Now, don't say anything. I know what you're thinking. 'Big shocker! Dumb Doof who always loses to me has dumb plans!' You know, Perry the Platypus, you can be very condescending sometimes. However, that won't matter anymore because I've found a solution. BEHOLD! MY CLEVER PLAN-INATOR!"
@@demonminer8093 why was this not an actual episode? The joke's practically write themselves! Maybe the episode starts with the boys deciding to make an A.I. to do the neighbors homework for them and instruct it not to let their parents know and then Candace finds out and with the ever iconic "I'm telling mom" line the robot follows it's prime directive and attempts to eliminate Candace before she can snitch demonstrating the combat functions the boys built in because they were bored. It could be a terminator homage and everything!
@@latorasmith Good idea except P and F regularly go to extreme lengths to help kids WITH school and learning things (The Big Brain, give me a grade). The AI would probably be a tutor, but it's for Buford and he wants to keep it secret and that's why it goes haywire.
Why do I have a feeling like the clever plan-inator would be thrown off the tower, or at least gets launched far away from it, crash into the ai, effectively stopping it and looks like everything is broken and unable to be used. It all gets thrown in the trash, and then who knows how many episodes later, we find out that "oh, the big tri state area take over machine isn't the doof's but actually the fusion of the plan-inator and the ai" (Why do I also feel like I just explained the plot of one of the Phineas and Ferb movies-)
I've found that the trick to writing a smart guy is to remember that as the writer, I have a luxury that my smart guy character doesn't: time. If you have a smart guy, write them into a corner and then take the time to figure out how they can get themselves out of it. This can make your smart guy seem brilliant because nobody needs to know just how long it took you to come up with the solution when the smart guy figures it out in seconds. I've found this to work equally well with both good and evil smart guys. Especially when you're able to come up with a solution based around information that your smart guy canonically knows.
Id also argue use references. Yeah beating some great god villain, or bokb of time whatever prob isnt something you can look up but you can reference likeness of real life peoples situations or characters you enoyed, then look up how the creator came about making them and the plan?
Hell yes, this exactly. I felt that incredibly much, just due to the difference of "play by post" DnD versus "at the table" DnD. (Or just tabletop in general) The moment I have to improv a smart solution that my character can throw out, you can forget that I could ever make a convincing 'smart guy' move. On the other hand, if you have the time to think things through - as in play-by-post - suddenly you've the time to spend on thinking through your options, plan around them, and even consider the potential consequences and how to deal with them.
An author can also use the resources available to them (the internet) that might not be available to the smart guy, to allow the character to Just Figure It Out while the author didn't have to.
Chewie is the smart guy in the Chewie/Han Smart Guy/Big Guy duo. Despite being physically larger and more imposing, Chewie is usually depicted as the one who fixes the ship, is the better pilot, and is the more insightful of the two despite his inability to speak common. Han is the guy you point in a general direction and tell him to shoot things.
Chewie also fills the stereotype of playing Space Chess, the origin of the "Let the Wookie win" quote. This, of course, also implies he's not great at Space Chess.
….no? How do you justify this? Did you forget that Han corrects Chewie’s work? They’re about equal in technical skill. On top of that, how is Chewie more “insightful?” What sort of fanfic have you written about these characters in your own head? Chewie isn’t the Smart Guy. He’s the CoPilot. The slightly less, but better in other ways, to Han’s Pilot. He is technically knowledgeable, but in the same way Han is.
Making the protagonist the smart guy is unironically hilarious for inner monologues. "How the heck do i get outta this one-" "I AM A GODDAMN GENIUS!" "Nevermind I'm an idiot." "Damn it everyone is looking at me again. Guess i gotta start making a plan." "This is it, I'm gonna die with these idiots." "Human interactions are like... what quantum physics is to you." "Uh confusing?" "Borderline impossible to understand."
I love when the smart guy is also the only person who has common sense and is constantly frustrated by everyone being idiots and looking at them for help. A smart guy that lacks common sense is great too. Maybe they’re an expert engineer and can build high-tech machines and gadgets but otherwise seem dumb
Red: "...hide behind the tank and chuck fireballs." Me: "Hide behind the tank, a large rock, a solid stone column, a building, under a large table, across a river, across the nation, or from another continent entirely. Also, never underestimate the importance of a solid, oak table. A wizard worth their salt will be able to scan any bar and know INSTANTLY what's the best table to hide under in the place. Oh, and hay carts make lousy hiding spots. You'd think all that hay would be a great place to hide and chuck fireballs, but only a madman would hide in a place of very flammable stuff on top of a mobile funeral pyre."
@@mirjanbouma Oh nono, the cauldrons tend to explode, so everyone, even the fat ones, *especially* the fat ones, is Fast. If you're a slow wizard, you die. It's natural selection.
The sniper is one of the subcategories the smart guy can be part of, since you can give them a lot of power and still make them conditional, one of the few times when, if the situation calls for it and he is not just there for cover fire, the whole trope gets switched, with everyone becoming the support and trying to give the sniper a good opportunity.
I immediately thought of the Sniper in Team Fortress 2, I couldn't help it. But, ironically, the smart characters in TF2 would actually be the Engineer and the Medic
@@100lovenana Ok but arguably, Sniper is the most sane of the group. He does a job and does it well. Sure he throws jars of piss but hey, I didn’t say he’s completely sane, just the most sane
@@100lovenana i thought you were talking about competitive tf2 for a sec, since the sniper is the most important class in highlander. the entire teams job is to support him, due to how effective a good sniper is
One of my favorite examples of The Smart One is Erin Ruunaser, the Elemental Magus from a webcomic called Aurora, because his personality is mostly devoid of shows of intelligence (even his arrogance is mostly about his status), but he's consistently shown to have a plan and to figure out things quickly, and his intelligence informs a lot about this character (he really doesn't like when he's wrong, but he won't shy away from searching the truth even if he's skeptic from it). In addition, despite being consistently shown as the most learned and logical, he's not always the one with the best grasp on the situation, as Falst, the Big Guy of the team, is more street-smart, and Kendal and Alinua, the Leader and the Lancer who both sub in for the Heart, have emotional intelligence and spiritual knowledge covered. Man, if only I knew the author, I would love to congratulate them on their character work
Yes, everybody in Aurora manages to juggle the five-man tropes in engaging ways and every time a new character is added you wonder how the group survived without them before. The author truly deserves a publishing deal, whoever they may be.
I choose to believe that since the Ember Island Players is basically pro-fire nation propaganda, no one wanted to admit that a little girl was talented enough as an earth bender to take down trained soldiers. So as the stories were gathered, fire nation soldiers kept lying and saying Toph was a huge, terrifying dude when in reality, she was a small, terrifying blind girl with incredible bending prowess
I love how on the graph, literally no one can drive except the Lancer. One can only imagine the terrified screaming of the group as the Lancer character drives them off a cliff with a smirk.
My favorite version is the "Rube Goldberg hero," the one that is somewhat strong, but not strong enough to just faceroll the villains they fight, so instead they need to set up a complex series of conditions in which their relatively weaker powers are plenty to overcome the stronger foe. This is how Batman is used in his best JLA adventures. You need just enough power to not die while setting up the trap and to be able to activate the trap when the time comes, but the real strength is in setting up the unwinnable scenario for the opponent.
It’s funny cuz I make the argument that Superman isn’t the best JL member. It’s Batman… with prep time. I think the Arkham games does it’s best to showcase it because he takes down people so much stronger than him or the ones that have strong tech. It’s up to the player to figure it out. Brute force or superpowers help, but when you are going against a man that learns weaknesses to make it an even fight, giving him prep time is the most dangerous thing.
Reminds me of the last time I played DnD, where everyone wanted to be the healer. Or rather, everyone had a healing spell except for one guy who thought he had a healing spell. Yeah, he found out that Mend was for mending fabric, and not wounds.
@@cooltrainervaultboy-39 ok my mind instantly whent to uberchaining in tf2 : in wich two medics can basically take out everything they want if pepole aren't quick or smart enough to run away , wich is the only situation in wich a team of just healers can work out
@@osirisatot19 He's definitely the smartest, but because he has to rely on his brainpower all the time he gets exhausted and just shuts it off to do impulsive shit. After all the sleuthing at the library, he impulsively drinks cactus juice because his brain wants to go to sleep. I know a lot of really intelligent, hard-working people that are massive dumbasses outside of work because by that point in the evening their brains have given up. Also broing around with Aang turns Sokka into an idiot, and if you've ever been in a frat you know that they are 50 IQ points dumber in a group than they are individually
I just realised Raven and Cyborg share the smart guy role for two different reasons: he's the tech, she's the mage. Which makes me think: what if two characters shared the "smart guy" role but together only... like you have the Big Guy and the Heart, but when together they become the Smart Guy of the band. Same if it's the Lancer and Leader; and when you think about it, it can be a "basic story" in itself: Leader and Lancer must put aside their differences and work together as "The Smart Guy" of the group.
I mean, that could make sense, the Big Guy has lots of thoughts, but can't exactly sort through them for the good ideas alone. That's where the Heart comes in, offering advice, but also recognizing that a lot of their plans are way better than what they could come up with Neither is the smart guy alone, but together, they could probably figure out the plot in idle chatter.
its how its also debatable about who is really big guy as well...as raven is by all means the strongest...but that role is also shared with star fire and cyborg at various times. Beast boy also shares the role of heart with Starfire and Robin can also be the weak and unskilled smart guy leader and tactician. It like red said they aren't solely define by one role but actually fill several roles.
Street smart: Beast boy Techie : Cyborg The mage: Raven Tactician: Robin The whole team are pretty smart in their individual area of expertise. I dont think there was a designated smart guy in the team.
I think this most often happens when either: The first villain has already made a frienemy relationship with the heros, usually out of having an actual conversation/forced to help eachother (say prison break or survial situation). Or villain 1 want to rule the world but villain 2 want to destroy it. Motives matter, a mafia boss will usually do something like pay back a debt or say "I'm defending my home, get over it" and the Hero usually has already been having a crisis about how they can't beat Villain 2 on their own. Also bonus points when the 2 villains and the Hero are all mutual foils. Like Batman, Poison Ivy, and Joker. Batman is a hero balancing right with legal, Ivy is an exo terrorist (good motives bad actions), and Joker is just walking chaos and obsession. (I know better examples exist but this is an easy one)
Ahhh, the “Vader chucking Emperor” effect. Nothing more badass. Hell, whenever Doom joins up with the avengers cause the universe is on the line is always a treat. Can’t happen with the same villain too often though, or else it’s like they’re just faking being a bad guy or they’re just morally inconsistent. Or, and this is one of my favs: a delicious shade of grey, where they have strict moral codes that motivate them in positive ways every now and again.
Alien invasions are often good for that. In The Batman cartoon, Gordon pragmatically backs up the villains who escaped Arkham who were already in the middle of fighting the alien invaders. Joker mostly did it because only HE gets to terrorize Gotham. In the series finale of Justice League Unlimited, the "not spaced for mutiny" members of the Legion of Doom teamed up with the JL against Darkseid's full frontal invasion. In Reboot, the bad guys help the protags fend off an invasion of viruses from the net. At least before betraying the protags when it seems like the invasion is under control. Or when the lawful neutral Nova Corp fights alongside the chaotic good(?) Ravagers to fight off the lawful evil Ronin.
Not me with the "Random Trivia Facts" Guy "Oh yeah this monument is magic! It was built by Agora, a sculptor who disappeared mysteriously a hundred years ago, alongside a prince!" "Wait it's magic?" "Yep!" "Could you maybe elaborate on that?" "I would, but I have no idea what it actually does, I just skimmed a fact book when I was twelve."
if I ever went to some magical adventure land, this would be me. I know the bare minimum required to be considered as smart, but anything beyond that is a mystery to me
Don't do this to me. I was that kid who just read random Wikipedia articles when board. I know about a ton of things with most of them having the depth of a puddle.
@@jonathantadlock-stein2023 That's me in real life. I have no interest in knowing the details of things but I do want to know how shit functions. So what I know about science is all rather surface level. Chemistry, space, physics, evolution, etc. But yea, been called smart all my life because of that even though it has little to do with intelligence. My parents made the usual mistake of calling me smart way too much that as a kid I even believed it. I'm not dumb but no, I'm not a smart kid, lol.
And the super hacker is a nerd who unironically loves star trek, video games and world of warcraft, and somehow isn't cringe. He still has personality beyond those things, and perfect chemistry with the rest of the cast.
@@benjaminc924 Let's be honest, almost all of them were pretty great characters, the only one we don't really see much of their actual character, was Sophie. We were never really conclusively and consistently given her real identity, or what she was like outside of running cons or _trying_ to act.
@@willparry530 I feel like, especially with her development in season 2, we did get a lot of characterisation from her? i agree that we see her acting a lot, so she doesn't get to be herself as much as the other characters on the job, but in all the Inbetween moments and even while conning we do get more characterisation than expected. personally, i feel like the character with the least development is hardison, although both Sophie abd Hardison get a lot of screentime/characterisation via their romance plots, and so don't stand as much on their own
@@Plotbunnyhunter Ehhh, her screen time even in season 2 is debatable. In the end we still don't even know her real name. At least with Elliot we know it's probably his real name, and that he has an estranged father, though we may not know why they are estranged.
@@willparry530 for 'Sophie' there was an in-universe excuse. As everyone else in the main group, she is an extreme example of her role/expertise. (Possibly even slightly more so, as 'pretend you're someone else' is something the entire team does to some extent) The 'has difficulty walking past people without picking their pocket'-parker equivalent would be 'even the personality familiar to closest friends is a lie' (see white collar's mozzie, or another Gina Bellman character: coupling's 'D'you know, I could get away with anything when I was my crazy twin Jane'-Jane) While it 'makes sense', I agree it makes her the least-developed of the main cast. (There are some interesting implications, but when you're 'the liar', pulling off a 'deep dive' is 'a Joker origin story'-levels of difficult)
It would be interesting to split up the ways of being smart between the party: The Leader is observant and intelligent, The Wizard/Techie is books-smart, The Heart is good with psychology, And the Muscle sticks to common sense when everyone else misses the most obvious solution
Simon is the Brains of the Group in Alvin & The Chipmunks,Donatello is the Brains in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Kowalski is the Brains of the Group in Penguins Of Madagascar.
I think this was the way TMNT was made actually. (I only watch the 2012 reboot and Rise, with a bit of the 2003 on the side but still) Leo is the leader, the one behind every plan, and also the one who will have to devise a plan during a mission if something unexpected happen. Donnie, the smart guy, and he is as you say, books-smart. He is the one that usually finds the solution to the more complicated life or death problem. Especially the one that involves another alien's technology. Mikey, the heart of the team or as I usually call him the emotional core of the team. He might not be as smart as Donnie or Leo to devise a plan to take the enemies' down. Hell, he might be the one that was in trouble in the first place. But, he is the one that usually keep the group together in tough situations, boosting the team's morale and sometimes even proves to be smarter and capable of solving a problem if he just try hard enough. And if all else fails, we have Raph to kick some sense into the team. Even though all of his methods seem like pure brute force, most of the times, he's the one with the sense in the team. He will be the one to say how bad and idiotic it is to trust someone from the foot, or to let a bad guy go just because we are "not the same as them".
@@loveyphoenix494 the TMNT Character and their Roles they were giver are perfect.Leonardo is the Leader,Donatello is the Brains,Raphael is the Muscle and Michelangelo the Heart.
I was hoping you'd bring up Entrapta, especially when discussing the frequent neurodivergence of the smart guy. She is very coded that way, from her hyperfixation on robots/tech, to her lack of social graces, etc. I think she's really well-written and the few characters who tend to dismiss her or get annoyed with her grow to appreciate her and how she expresses herself (I'm thinking of Scorpia's talk with Mermista about how to treat Entrapta better).
@@artist0154 couldn't remember if she'd confirmed it or not, but that's even better! I love her too, she and Mermista are tied for my favorite princess
I personally found her one of the weaker characters, given how she easily moved over to the side of people that she knew full well conquered and killed most of the planet just so she could tinker with tech, some of it weapons that would then be set upon innocent people. I found it glaring in that regard, as if neurodivergent people have no moral compass.
@@martine5604 Entrapta was, in part, written by an autistic person. As an autistic person myself, I really appreciated that the sent her down that road and brought her back from it having learned that she needs to open up her tunnel vision and look at the bigger picture. I know I can turn into a real jerk when I'm too focused on my special interests. I totally drop my personal life and hurt my relationships if I don't watch myself.
One of the reasons Sokka shines so much is because of the care they put into the world of Avatar. It's so easy in stories with worlds that involve different groups with inherent powers (Benders/Non-Benders, Mutants/Non Mutants, Quirks/Quirkless etc) to just give up on trying to balance it and simply have the more powerful group be the bad guy, the force to overcome, or just hands down better. The stories and conflicts never get resolved or devolve into one of the powerful groups fighting their own on behalf of the puny mortals. Avatar was the first real show I had sesen that balanced this. Benders had an edge, but they aren't gods and can make the same mistakes. It's not the be-all-end-all of power, it's simply something that's added to that character's toolkit. Sokka is a tactical genius and it shows.
I wrote a character in a superhero/supervillain years ago called "Omnibus". He was connected to every alternate version of himself across the multiverse, but only subconsciously. A side effect of this was a kind of cosmic awareness: he had the potential not only to know everything every version of him knows, but the threads connecting himselves/herselves/themselves (English doesn't have a good word for multiple selves) "tune in" these selves to cosmic structures. The obvious downside to knowing something about everything, or everything about something, is that a basically human mind can't stand up to that kind of input. His safeguard: he could only tap into the knowledge if *someone* *else* asked him a question. This kept him from falling down the rabbit hole of all the things he could know by making the ability to tap into infinite knowledge external to the person with the ability. I kind of got a kick out of the idea of a character who was potentially incredibly powerful, but was effectively only as good as the questions he was asked.
I have a similar character named "Agen Rall-Pale" as an NPC in my D&D campaign, although maybe a bit less powerful. His eyes look like the void of space - black with stars shining in them. He has the ability to see alternate dimensions and the potential futures/actions of himself and others. This has led to him becoming quite aloof and he struggles with living in the moment, because he can see so many possibilities ahead of him.
That's a very cool and original way to work it! Not too Deus ex machina, still very powerful, good safeguard. I'm no writer or writing teacher but you get full marks from me 👍🏻
"Every character has a space of situations they're good at handling, and a space of situations they're bad at handling." I was about to make a joke about Mary Sues, but I just realized, it even applies to them -- they're good at handling praise or being the only reason the plot resolves, and bad at generating interesting plots or character interactions.
Yea, a lot of sues are actually, ironically, terrible at any form of problem solving, because all problems they face end up getting solved through deus ex machina. I could actually see it being an interesting premise that a character suddenly loses the special plot protection. Like, say, some supernatural entity blesses the protagonist with Good fortune until they turn twenty, prior to which everything just sort of... Worked out for them, but now they have to learn to navigate actual problems that they need to solve.
@@zoro115-s6b Larry Niven's Ringworld explores what happens when one of your secondary characters is a Mary Sue. Her main character trait is extreme hereditary luck.
NAH. Nobody cares if a male character is like this. It’s exclusively used to knock female characters, and is often applied ANYWAY to female characters who are nuanced in personality and/or skillsets. ..like. Example? Literally every “classic” Male Stoic or Lonewolf “hero” is bland af and often an asshole but Ofc Hypercompenent to “back up” that “he’s fine/better alone” this and “completely 100% justified for treating people like shit and being a jerk” that. Long live the so-called “Mary Sues.”
@@anonymousfellow8879 "exclusively used to knock female characters" technically your right since the term for male characters is Gary Stu.... But I can disprove the intention of what your saying with one word, Kirito. About half of the people I know (that have seen SAO) don't like it and the criticism always starts with Kirito is a Gary Stu (though he isn't a jerk like many so many of the other textbook examples).
Anybody else notice that the entire time she was talking about the Smart Guy being relegated to an exposition machine the clips were laser focused on Endgame Hulk?
well yeh, even banner himself straight states this in ragnarock, to which thor basically says "yeh, so?". hes essentially relegated to being a mcguffin until his allotted 10 minutes of either smashing stuff or thinking stuff. he literally has less character than the iron man suit/ jarvis
Can't wait for red to talk about the Twins trope Whether they're identical or not, mirror versions of eachother or total opposites, or heck maybe its just a "you look like me wanna switch places cuz our lives currently suck" situation, its a really interesting trope to me
Oh boy, that would bring up other sub-tropes like the evil twin or the "Prince and Pauper" situation of exchanging identities. Sooo many examples are appearing in my head: the Pines twins (Gravity Falls), Starfire and Blackfire, the original Prince and the Pauper, the Sonozaki sisters (Higurashi), etc.
Shoutout to Spud from American Dragon: Jake Long, who is eventually revealed to be an absolute genius, but he hates the expectations that come with that so he pretends to be as dumb as humanly possible. Also, shoutout to Sly 3 for basically being one giant examination of how smart guys relate to leaders/heroes.
Bentley is a fantastic example of the trope, especially considering where his character goes with the introduction of Penelope. They're both such fun extrapolations of the trope.
@@TheWatcher51393 I 100% agree with this, Bentley is my favorite character in the Sly games and it’s really cool seeing how far he developed. He went from a turtle that was scared of going out on the field on mission and being on the side to a team member that may be scared, but goes onto the field with his friends despite what happened to him in the second game.
Also making Sly 3 interesting was that the villain is a dark foil of Bentley: the former Smart Guy of Sly's father's team who went full villain out of jealous and is confused that Bentley hasn't done the same.
The second she said "The Mastermind" my mind inmediately went to leverage, and then the video used it as an example. This thing is incredibly well structured holy shit.
Not always, but oh my word, you have to watch an episode like three or four times, or sit down and diagram it, before you see the plot holes. That's _still_ incredible craftsmanship, some plots will have holes if you put them on a TV show, no matter what, to hide them that well is exemplary
THANK YOU for mentioning the whole iffiness of other characters making fun of the Smart Guy's interests, that was always a trope that bothered me in otherwise fine stories.
Now I kinda want a story about a story about what at the start looks like a stereotypical tough guy smart guy duo, with the antagonist thinking so too, leading to the antagonist try to use it against the duo. Only it to be revealed that they are both adept at the others proficiency do to their time spent together. Like the "Smart guy" beating the shit out of the goons with the motherboard, with surprising strength, because he has trained with the "tough guy" for just such an occasion, while the "thought guy" takes over the energy network of the station with the knowledge he gained from spending time with the "smart guy" while he was tinkering.
When thinking about these kind of duos this sounds like the most logical option/result, smart and strong spending so much time together that they both learnt from each other's perspective and the way they approach to things
When Red mentioned how writing a neurodivergent-coded smart guy character isn’t inherently bad, I Immediately thought of Marcy Wu from Amphibia. She’s heavily neurodivergent coded (unintentionally, somehow) and definitely the team “smart guy,” and it feels like the fandom collectively decided she was our new favorite character within minutes of her introduction
I immediately thought of Marcy when the picture for “tactician” showed someone playing chess, and she’s definitely my favorite character in the show, partially because she’s a huge nerd. She’s also just a really good balance to the other characters in general, because as much as I love Anne, Sprig, and the others, they aren’t they best in the intelligence department. She’s also just written really well in my opinion.
For the neurodivergent smart guy role, I found Entrapta from the recent She-Ra reboot to be a positive example of the trope. She's on the autistic spectrum and hyper focused on technology to the point that she tends to be morally neutral. At the same time, she acknowledges her difficulties with understanding interpersonal communications yet frequently strives to overcome that perceived failing. She's not a jerk, she just doesn't get how she affects others at times. Her arc is even centered on overcoming her fixations to focus on helping the friends she's made. Most importantly, she shows herself to be a full character, showing empathy to those dealing with issues she can relate to, developing relationships, and even acting kinda horny at times. Not a fighter by any stretch, but by the end she's evolved enough to take on elements of the heart role where certain other characters are concerned.
Could it be that Leverage had 5 smart guy characters but with diferent smart guy traits mixed with all the other traits in different levels? That's so cool!!
Yep. They are all really damn smart at what they do and just smart in general. In the pilot they even reference that, when Parker says she's really good at one thing but Nate is really good at a lot of things...one of my favorite things about the show is how they all grow to be better at a lot of things by the end, so much so that Parker becomes the Mastermind.
The smart guys are one of my favorite archetypes, mostly because of the mage smart guy. As someone who was really not that physically active as a kid, I always found them really cool! Not only do they help their team with their intelligence but they are also powerful enough to defeat villains, sometimes on their own. Bonus points if the villain team also has a smart guy and both of them later become rivals or even frenemies of some sort.
My favourite use of the "smart guy" trope is Timothy Zahn's Thrawn books. Literally every important character could be seen as a "smart guy" in other stories but in Zahn's work, being smart is just a prerequisite. Instead, they all fill another role in addition to being the "smart guy" in their area of expertise.
Honestly was waiting for Parker to pop up when she referenced the neurodivergent smart guy but yep, I was gleeful watching this and seeing all my babies.
As an autistic person, I really appreciate how respectful you are when you talk about certain tropes that come off as ableist. It's really refreshing and I can't tell you how nice it is to hear, so thank you c:
As a neurodivergent person myself (whose special interest is the entire field of worldbuilding and storycrafting) I almost always end up making the Smart Guy or the Heart (or both) neurodivergent as well. Sometimes by accident, usually on purpose in the case of the Smart Guy because it gives me an excuse to let my brain relax and not get hung up on how a neurotypical person would react/respond. And because the idea of, "I had to work Really Hard to understand [physics/people/magic/emotions] and overshot," makes sense to me. (Allow me to infodump, since we're talking neurodivergence and character tropes, and I am indeed a Meganerd for this kind of thing) One of the other things I love doing with Smart Guys (and intelligent characters in general) is purposefully defining what kind of smart they are. Like, are they "nature" smart where they can tell you which way north is on a moment's notice or figure out what the weather is going to do? (Which is what I am, so these characters are very easy for me to write.) Are they people smart? Self smart? Are they musically or artistically smart? Spatially smart? Kinesthetically smart? (Aka possessing of a very accurate and trustworthy muscle memory.) Linguistic, logical, strategic, etc... there are a LOT of different kinds of "smart" and I tend to split up them up when considering party balance as well. That way I know A) if there is some skill overlap, they might not apply those skills in the same way because their focuses are different, and B) I might always have a "best at [_]" and a "second-best at [_]" to call on for certain scenarios if the best-at character is gone for some reason. Also LEVERAAAGE!!! Always love a Leverage B-roll. :D
"what is niche and nerdy these days?" one thing that comes to mind is a hobby I have called "non-professional developer" where the a someone makes a video game, not really with the intent of selling it, but just for fun. This gets an extra layer of nerdiness when it's for some obsolete platform. making a new game for an older system, especially one that's no long supported by it's manufacturer, requires quite a high level of nerdiness. for example people still make games for the Game Boy Advanced, which is insane but impressive.
I think Sypha from Castlevania is one of the best because she has emotional intelligence and is also super strong, just in all different ways then Trevor.
@@pocketlint60 i love that about her so much. she's flirty, loud, extroverted and runs headfirst into situations a lot. yes, she's smart and good at figuring things out, but her short fuse temper and passion for things is an interesting contrast that prevents her from falling into the sarcastic cold smart guy trope. it lends her character a lot of depth
I like the smart guy because they’re typically the ones who can hold their own against the group if and when they turn evil. The leader typically never turns evil, and when any of the others do it’s typically more out of emotion. When the smart guy does evil it comes from a logical standpoint and more well thought out.
When you said Smart Guy I was thinking of Donatello from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Kowalski from Penguins Of Madagascar Simon from Alvin & The Chipmunks
@@chasecollins3263 Yeah the TMNT came out in ‘84 and Alvin & The Chipmunks came out in ‘58,but the Animated TV Show came out in ‘83 and the Penguins weren’t introduced until ‘05.
Asperger's here; can confirm, extremely insulting when the neurodivergent character flips between "plot-solving ultra genius" and "malfunctioning 80's computer" at the drop of a hat. Further insults are the Sheldon Cooper, Rain Man and Cheese (Foster's Home) type characters being the ONLY representation we seem to get; it's almost like writers think those are the only variants from "normal" that EXIST
Yes I absolutely despise Sheldon Cooper for that reason. >_< There is no reason that neurodivergent people should be labeled as emotionless or lacking empathy as if they are incompatible with intelligence. In reality this is almost never the case the most dangerous real world psychopaths are those that use manipulation to rise into positions of power.
To be fair, there's lots of other neurodivergent characters, it's just that the writers and majority of the audience don't know they're neurodivergent. See: literally every shonen anime protagonist.
@@zoro115-s6b Rather, that a good neurodivergent character can be written by accident, like Calvin and Hobbes, Dexter's Laboratory or, bizarrely enough, Goo (also Foster's Home)
Despite its flaws and the fact it will probably never be finished, I feel like Log Horizon is a good example of a story led almost exclusively by leader/smart guys who fill other roles to varying degrees. The edge is gained in different situation based not exclusively on innate intelligence, but on the importance of learning how things work while actively in the process of doing them. The characters who succeed the most aren't strictly smarter than the others, but the ones who have the most wiggle room in their plan for unexpected chaos, or the ability manage their people and resources most effectively.
One of my favorite game series from my childhood, Sly Cooper, handled the smart guy pretty well He is the smart, planner and hacker turtle for the whole series, but he grows a lot as a person as he is forced to save his friends from prison alone. He starts out stuck in a jungle, scared for his life but pulls through and saves his friends and is a lot more confident in himself at the end of that chapter.
Sly Cooper is my favorite game series of all time. I love how each game improves on one another. I mean the first game might as well be like the pilot episode of a TV show. I love the growth of every character. Vilians like the panda king, and even Carmelita. My favorite though has to be Murray's growth. All of the characters change in reasonable ways that dont seem out of character. But the real reason it's my favorite series is I love hack n slash and climbing junk. My favorite games have tight controls where you don't have to wait on an animation. Assassins creed likes to act like they invinted climbing but while I do like the series, in my opinion the climbing is slow and clumsy. I think the perfect ideal climbing game is prince of Persia... the 2008 version. I haven't played the 2010 game but it does piss me off that they made 2 games with the same damn name. Mean it's not like they are made by different people, but whatever. Anyway it's all the other stuff that really makes sly Cooper my favorite. If prince of Persia had a different combat system then it would probably be my favorite. I guess that goes into my love of platforming in general. Like I loved tomb raider underworld as a kid, even if I was too young to figure out any of the puzzles. I've always loved the portal series and it's a huge part of what informs my taste in games but I only recently started playing half life. So far it's giving me a little bit of everything I like. Smooth controls, interesting platforming, great combat, huge rooms that make no sense, and a lot of really silly junk. While it is a pc game and I grew up on console so I missed a lot of pc classics, it still gives me a lot of the vibes that make the ps2 my favorite console. And it's not like a nostalgia thing, it's more of the fact that a lot of genres I love have died over the years. If modern game companies were still making games like jak and daxter (and I'm not talking about sequels, those don't count) of Oni I definitely wouldn't hold on to the ps2 with such a death grip. I just want to play some good 2d or 3d platforms without them being bogged down by modern game design. I also don't mind first person platformers and have no problems with them, but I do see why people aren't as big of a fan and developers shy away from it. Anyway kinda rambled until I ran out of junk to say.
The Smart Guy has almost been my favourite character archetype ever since I was a kid. Growing up as a neurodivergent and physically weedy nerd, I just relate to Smart Guys *a lot* more, especially since as you said, many of them are coded as neurodivergent.
It always surprises me how the series Firefly embodied the "complementary skills" family of tropes. I suppose Simon would have been the archetype "smart guy," but other characters had different types of smart.
I think one of my favorite types of characters is a variation of the smart guy that I like to call the competent guy. They are the characters that ask the right questions and think things through when confronted with an issue. Sure, they don't always succeed (it would be boring if they did), but when they fail, it is not due to their own stupidity. A lot of authors make characters look smart by making everyone around them dumb, or have them overcome a problem through what essentially boils down to shear dumb luck. Competent characters succeed because they can problem solve, plan, and generally take an active role in achieving success, rather than needing to be rescued by a last minute powerup or deus ex machina. A great example of this is Arya Stark in A Game of Thrones when she is trying to escape the Red Keep after Ned's arrest. She realizes that the guards are looking for a scared noble girl trying to escape, not a random street urchin going about their day. It's a great chapter, because readers get to both appreciate Arya's incredible bravery (calmly walking past guards who would imprison her if they recognized her) and general competence.
I like this with Team Four Star in how Krillin talks about Bulma at one point. Android 18's just been spit out by Cell, and Krillin says to Vegeta, "I'm taking her to a...doctor...mechanic...I'm taking her to a Bulma." XD I LIKE the smart guy archetype, especially when it's a smart woman.
I'm glad you addressed the dangers of writing a Neurodivergent character without examining them first. As one of these people, I thank you. In contrast to "General" rules about Neurodivergence, I actually understand sarcasm and enjoy wordplay, though I don't much like other people. I can also be Empathetic, both over and under, depends on the day.
Honestly, it's more shallow stereotypes mostly based young children at this point combined with the tendency to default to Autism when hearing neurodivergent when it includes tons of other things like ADHD, Dyslexia and arguably also mental illnesses. Most Autistic people I know do very much like puns and have some grasp of sarcasm, though the latter tends to vary between "Understand the concept and can recognize it okay with people I know" to "Must actively restrain myself from being the worst snarker in history and recognize it as well or even better than most Neurotypicals" depending on the person. Empathy is, similarly, complex and I think the main thing that can be said is that it tends to be much more consistent both between people and over time for Neurotypicals. Personally I really wish that some would take notice of how some people compensate for, say, not being able to read faces well by focusing on how the person talks or relates to others which leads to a somewhat different social strength/weakness profile than people who can rely on faces tend to have.
Regarding the rant about poor representations of neurodivergent characters, yes yes yes yes yes we love to see it! Keep up dunking on the closeminded among the neurotypicals! As for the question of what even is nerdy these days --- math. Pure math is still seen as nerdy (even in an engineering school!) (Edit: and I say this as someone interested in pure math but currently in an engineering school.)
"what's is nerdy these days?" I'd say antiques and vintage media. Think thrift store stuff like old sewing machines, obscure vinyl or cassettes... Me and my little cousin share those interests and are considered very nerdy. Also, I'm asperger, so I always related more with the smart-guy archetype, and yeah, intentionally spectrum coded characters are not often good. But I think it's mainly because the unitentional ones start by being made naturally, and the label follows because it fits, rather then making a character fit the label.
as someone also autistic and also relating to this archetype, my interests are especially in the zoology realm-- someone who's really into snakes, frogs, and bugs would definitely fall into the weird niche interest trope
@@carso1500 I would argue it also depends on how you consume that information and with what level of voracity. I watch a lot of cooking youtube on my lunch breaks, but I couldn't nerd out and tell you about bread hydration and the effects of different fats in baking.
That note about party comp in stuff like D&D makes me think, me and my friends rarely worry about party comp, having more of the same thing isn't worth nothing and sometimes there's stuff that no one in the party can do well. Sometimes the DM makes those things none of us can do a problem we encounter and I find those moments pretty fun, personally. I'd love to see a show with a cast that has something similar.
I absolutely LOVE Reagan's character in Inside Job. She's such a great blend of smarts and personality, and her flaws give her so much depth. It's just refreshing to see a main character who's socially inept, but is forced to take a leadership role and learn to appreciate her team. That development is great to watch!
I appreciate you touching on the subject of neurodivergency. When NT's try to write ND's without properly understanding them or even trying to, it just leads to more harmful stereotypes and misconceptions. I'm glad it's starting to change and we're seeing more content created by ND's that portrays and captures the actual ND experience without limiting it to superficial attributes
I think Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn's Sazed is a great example of an "Encyclopedia" archetype that really shines in terms of its integration with the character and the plot, if any know it.
Speaking if characters that can look at clues and put them together Stocke in Radiant Historia is a satisfiying example. In many RPGs the protagonist is clueless about what is going on but he pretty much figures out stuff as quick as the player does and only looks to confirm his suspicions. More smart guys should be like that.
Hey, someone remembers that game! Though it's technically as much you the player as the written character figuring it out. I assume that helps with immersion.
So the Heavy from tf2 (based from his backstory) is the Genius Bruiser, since he has a Ph. D in Russian Literature while wielding a $400000 minigun for 12 seconds. Edit: the Engineer and Spy are usually the geniuses without the insane strength
@@amithabraham2224 Scout, Soldier and Demo generally fill the role of a lose Canon fighter. They are not always the greatest fighter or the smartest person around. Actually, most of the time they re definitely not. But they have their moments of brilliance for comedic value, simular to how Pyro appears innocent and cudly until it is their moment and you find out they are not only comically competent, but also really bloodthirsty. Can't really put sniper anywhere.
That part about the possible downsides of making a smart guy neurodivergent, 13:06 specifically, was literally me. Not entirely sure how I feel about that, but my personality type being INTP may have something to do with it. also sounds like my latest d&d character, interestingly enough. basically, he’s a warforged artificer (yes i like machines more than people and play the adeptus mechanicus what’s your point) that went batshit insane. fun stuff.
Sokka being the smart guy by process of elimination just makes waaaaaaay too much sense for him. And the only two Encyclopedias I accept are 1) A guy who observes everything even though he never opens his eyes and has used his trusty frying pan as a dying pan and 2) A guy with a sledgehammer and cool hat he got off a dead, Italian guy.
I never write “the smart guy” because almost all my characters are smart. Stupid characters are often not very interesting to write. With that said, writing a story full of smart people is really hard to do.
I feel like Artemis Fowl is kind of the platonic ideal of the specific "tactician" flavor of this trope, in the books anyway. But you could totally argue that Foley is more of a Smart Guy than Artemis, since even though Artemis' inability to do anything physical is mocked in each book, he is still physically where the action is. Foley isn't ever present, so he's more defined by his limitations than even Artemis
My favorite Smart!SmartGuy trope: High INT, Low WIS Like they’d prolly be a himbo IF they didn’t have a master’s degree-also as someone who’s friends with a physicist, this is VERY accurate to IRL as they deal with their coworker’s shenanigans + sometimes gets neat antidotes from their disaster!professors (esp in higher academia vs early undergrad) - - TBB Rambling: (This is also where Tech and Echo differ in TBB and it is beautiful. -now to see s2 fully run with Echo as Hunter’s Lancer (literally the common sense/moral compass and advice guy) and. Idk. Remember that Echo’s whole deal with his capture&rescue in TCW s7 was that -*-he’s a superb technician and technically the same rank as Hunter.-*- Right. Anyway.)-
i feel like someone should make a smart guy/big guy duo where they're both neurodivergent and that's why they get along like the smart guy is the type of neurodivergency that excels in school while the big guy is the type of neurodivergency that struggles in school there are still a lot of ways to get that wrong but i think it could be very interesting if written well :D
You just remimded me of my favorite character, Claudia Donovan. She's the team's smart guy in Warehouse 13 and she's the best character ever. Thanks for reminding me how much I love her :)
I would love to see an episode on properly handling neuro-divergence. I feel like we have a profound lack of that form of representation and that it would be fascinating to explore.
Thing is that the best way is to remember to treat them the same as any other characters, but a lot of the times the audience will still perceive there to be a double standard, regardless of if one exists or not
I haven't watched the video yet, but I just know that Red will bring up how smart guys in teams tend to just be smart at everything. Like Tony Stark is a genius mechanic and computer scientist... who can also discover time travel out of nowhere.
I love you Entrapta! Ehrm. Eh. What I mean to say is that I’m very fond of this role and the main character in the story I’m working on is definitely one. So this has been a useful video. And great fun as always, thank you Red!
"What is nerdy nowadays?" You know, I was just talking about that the other day with some friends. Ironically while playing video games. We couldn't really come up with an answer, but we did come to agree on one thing. Calling someone a "Nerd" is really only an insult if said ironically to a non-nerdy person. Actually calling a nerd a nerd just makes you look dumb. If anything it's the things that were once considered more "normal" hobbies, like sports, fishing or orienteering, that are seen as odd. Who knew that the people making fun of video games while watching football would come to be seen as culturally out of touch. It does beg the question, how will changes in cultural norms effect the five man band? Will we see a change in the narrative? Will the water horse ever actually get his chance to shine?
It doesn't even seem like sports is all that niche or nerdy tbh. Since we still get basketball and football players advertising fast-food restaurants. Maybe being into all of like the stats and stuff. Fishing feels like an old man kind of thing, and I have no idea what orienteering even is.
@@Glitch_Man42, orienteering I’m pretty sure Is using a compass and distance directions to locate way markers. It’s how you use a compass to know where you’re going, find a landmark and stay as close as possible. Sorry for the poor explanation
I wanna write a story where the smart guy seemingly knows near impossible things for seemingly no reason, the whole “dude trust me” excuse, but then it’s revealed he knew those things through a bunch of connections and false promises that he made that very quickly come to bite him in the ass HARD
I thought there was going to be a mention of Donatello is being the smart guy being improved upon because the last two shows has shown he's character has been expanding into emotional relationships. Which is a sign of branching out of the characteristic of being the introvert personality of the smart guy.
Mostly likely the most overpowered smart guy, would be the warrior scholar since they also tend to become great leaders historically. I would love hear blues take on warrior scholars.
I like when there's multiple smart guys: the Spock, the McCoy, the Scotty, each there for a different speciality, and it's fun seeing several smart guys bouncing ideas off eachother.
Waiting for my Chinese takeaway, crocheting a pillow and OSP uploads. This is my ideal Friday. Did I mention my brain is enormous? Also smart guy/big guy is just mythological Thor and Loki lol
Asking for feedback: The main team in my story consists of these characters: Hyperion (main character): Potential of immemse power, is not used to fighting and has horrible disciplin Navy Swan: Leader, extremely skilled fighter, smart, great tactician, extremely antisocial and horrible at teamwork, emotionless from the outside, a bit too moral to be an efficient soldier Cloud Knight: Team's anchor, socially intelligent, a bit too moral to be a soldier, takes too much responsibility, too emotional Jasper: Big woman, heavy hitter, has a massive and fragile ego (still in development) Dream Police: Technician, spy, a bit of an encyclopedia, bad at fighting, too emotional (still in heavy development) South Star: Variety in power, a bit too immature (still in extremely heavy development)
Thoughts on the characters; -Navy Swan and Cloud Knight's roles should be switched, or at least swap some of their traits. Someone who is antisocial and bad at teamwork by definition cannot be a good leader, so assigning that role to Swan doesn't make sense. Meanwhile, Knight being a socially intelligent leader whose sense of responsibility compels them to drag the team into dangerous situations for the sake of helping others or doing the right thing thing has a lot of great potential for plot and character drama. -Jasper being a heavy hitter with a fragile ego doesn't sound like a good idea. Arrogant protagonists can sometimes be unlikable, but whiney protagonists are almost universally despised. A better way might be to have her be overconfident but determined. An overconfident heavy hitter might get in over their heads and get their asses kicked, and seeing them take failure really personally is a better way of just having them be overly sensitive. Conversely, watching the team powerhouse get absolutely pummeled and still win is almost guaranteed to win the audience over. -Police being too impulsive because of their emotions might give them an interesting dynamic with Jasper. Usually the team smart guy is there to keep the big guy on a leash, but having the team smart guy egg the big guy on would be a very interesting combo that I don't see done very often. With any ensemble cast, the key to making them fun is to figure out how they play off each other, which takes time to figure out. If you keep coming up with thought experiments on how each character or combination of characters will react to a given situation you'll come up with a solid story.
@@ManiaMac1613 Thanks for the feedback! I still do have some things to clarify though. Firstly, the team dynamic is supposed to be bad. Swan doesn't wanna be a leader to begin with, he is assigned to be one due to his intelligence and knowledge which is a horrible decision that affects him as well. Also making Cloud wouldn't make the dynamic all that healthy as well since he is way too considerate to be a military executive. About Jasper, while she has a fragile ego, she's not whiny at all. She just gets extremely aggresive when something happens that degrades her, which is kinda tied to her backstory, spite and extreme perfectionism. About Dream Police, yeah, that can be a good idea as she can be inconsiderate and unempathetic at times. In conclusion, the team dynamic is supposed to be bad and unstable and all the characters have some internal problems that keep them away from solving the issues at hand
@rubyances I see, I see. Deliberately writing a bad team dynamic is certainly a viable writing decision, but if the characters themselves have a bad dynamic then you'll wind up shooting yourself in the foot. It's a subtle but very important distinction. Your explanation about Jasper makes more sense now. To me, a fragile ego means you overreact to any digs at your pride, but it sounds like it's more of a Rocket Raccoon situation where she is quite literally triggered by people degrading her thanks to past trauma, which is a bit different but is a better decision. Swan also not wanting to be the leader means he has the choice of giving the responsibility up or changing his behavior and stepping out of his comfort zone. Although you'd have to do some creative heavy lifting to explain why someone in the military is given a leadership position they don't want, since that doesn't usually happen IRL. Furthermore, a Commander who is considerate is actually very desirable as a military leader; in real life, totally ruthless individuals aren't actually looked on favorably, so you'd have to do some creative heavy lifting to explain why he wouldn't be the top pick as the leader. I'm both a military man and a long-time writer, so please feel free to pick my brain about these subjects.
@@ManiaMac1613 I still have some things to clarify as I couldn't explain everything there, although I'll take your advice into consideration as I don't really know how the military works as a 16 year old, even though it is more of a private military foundation Firstly, I really should work on the dynamic between the characters as the team isn't certainly new, so making them at least bearable to eachother at times would be a good idea. However, it will still be affected by the pressure of the plot. About the leadership part, I could change some things up with the roles, but not the ranks. Cloud Knight could take the role of organizing and stuff while Swan just did the strategizing. There will be some personal and external reasons for it with one of them being guilt. Furthermore, while I know that leaders who are actually human are very good for obvious reasons, Cloud Knight is just not the person to handle everything with the team like authority and responsibility. Again, I would love to know more about how the military works since I wanna make some aspects of the story as accurate as possible to the original counterparts
@rubyances It sounds like there's a lot more to the story going on. I certainly wouldn't mind doing some more copyediting/critiques if you wish, I do those often. Lemme know if you'd like me to take a look at a sample chapter or something.
5:14 except for Harry Dresden. He’s like a brawny smart guy. He’s such an incredible character and if you wanted to say he’s top ten best fantasy protagonist I wouldn’t stop you
"What even is niche and nerdy these days?" Weebs. Which means that in a couple decades, we might get smart guys who are just gonna go off monologuing about their favourite anime
I've been writing a story where the protagonist IS the smart guy. He has a very nerdy hobby (collecting antique medical devices and books) and when this is found out, he's promptly apprenticed to the town doctor and given the nickname "Doc". When someone in town gets shot in the arm and tries to tough it out with hideously predictable results, Doc proves himself a bona fide badass by not throwing up once while treating his patient, and remaining calm and collected while his patient proves to be a colossal jerk (imagine the toughest, meanest guy in town reduced to being bedridden, and imagine just how sunny his disposition would be.)
My favorite smart guy is Jade from tales He explains the lore of his franchise and has a solid hand in most of the world's lore. However his personality is trolling everything that moves and the party knows it Also love Hubert and Pascal for both being smart and incredibly...dumb. I love them both
My “smart guy” characters are a lot more like Hyato. Usually sociopathic and whether they are really a good or a bad guy seems to change from scene to scene
I actually really like the sort of characters who are incredibly smart but are sort of an anti hero and just don’t tell everyone what they know like Kokichi and nagito from the danganronpa series
@@LanieMae I like them too. But let me give you a hypothetical. Let's take a fatalist smart character who has an actual terminal disease. They just want to do some good before they die and they don't have a lot of time to waste on idealism. Because they are dying and the world is full of corruption and evil that prevents good from being done through ideals alone. Now that's take that character, give them time around the usual blind idealist sort until one day the blind idealist makes a huge sacrifice to remove their terminal death sentence. Now free of the shadow of death, saved by the idealism they believed to be pointless, they now begin to see the effect it has on others and its practical value in society. Now we take this reformed-ish anti-hero, and we have them lose their family due to some large scale political and corporate corruption. What do they do? Do they lose their minds in a violent and murderous path, raging against the fact that there is no justice for the truly good? Maybe. Seems extreme but it can be done. Or do they accept both realities? Accept that corruption and evil will stand between the good ideals that bring about actual change and hope in people. Maybe embrace one to bring about the other. Become the corporate two faced corrupt fiend just like all the other villains, literally so that he can be the last monster standing and pave the way of his own free will for a hero to come and smite him? There are so many paths for the super smart character to take, but the thing people hardly ever truly know is that in the real world, self-emotional awareness is inversely proportionate to intelligence. The smarter you are, the more you realize how insubstantial emotions are. You can cherish them like jewelry, but you can keep it in its proper place and foce on what you are trying to accomplish.
"A smart guy is like a multitool - they can get you out of a lot of situations, but usually not the same situations you'd fix with a baseball bat" this has HUGE Jason energy...if you have a problem, throw a molotov cocktail at it, and then you'll have a different problem!
Okay not wanting to "Autism 'Splain" here but I always worry when the following comes up. "Low Empathy" - oof, can we talk about how much this can be a misconception with neurodivergence? Okay I am Dyslexic / Dyspraxic (diagnosed) and I think I might be ADHD (undiagnosed) but I know a bunch of Autistics (because the stereotype usually draws on Autistic and ADHD traits) who are if anything HYPER empathetic. There's lots of discussion online about how it's more that neurodivergents can come across as unempathetic when it is more the case of having to try and tone down your empathy or get overwhelmed. Then there's the issue that empathy can mean different things (thanks English language for your lack of specificity!) - 'cognitive empathy' (predicting what people are going to do) is usually an issue for Autistic and sometimes more generally Neurodivergent folks but 'affective empathy' (the ability to share others’ feelings) and ‘compassionate empathy’ (the desire to help others) are different matters entirely and main Autistic people cite they have no difference or even heightened versions of those (I am quoting partly from Janine Booth's TUC guide to Autism in the Workplace here). It's also worth reading up on the "Double Empathy Problem" proposed by Dr. Damien Milton - that is the idea that Autistic people and Neurotypical people actually BOTH have issues empathising with each other but Autistic people often have less issue with the cognitive empathy side of things when relating to other Autistics, this isn't an every case thing and theirs plenty of Autistics who hate each other but they might "get" each other's way of thinking still more than they do NT people. Sorry if this is a bit ranty but I just hate the idea that Neurodivergent people (and Autistics especially) are empathy-less and don't care about people at all. Some of the most passionate defenders of the weak I know are Autistic.
Well said! 👏 One thing I've noticed with mamy real-life autistic people is a very strong sense of "justice", which can make it really tough for them interacting in our world where sadly nepotism, self-interest, exploitation & other forms of injustice tend to run rampant? (It can be hard for them to understand why a good action won't always resolve in a good outcome). This would be an interesting trait to see explored in a fiction space, as "seeking justice" seems to be a central theme for many superhero stories and fantasy tales?
Thank you. It's one of the biggest misconceptions about autism, and one that can be quite damaging. We often have trouble expressing our empathy, or making sense of it, but we feel it just fine. And can sometimes be overwhelmed by it. I'm not sure if we have more empathy than other people, but we do have trouble filtering it, so we can be overwhelmed by another person's feelings. Though we can sometimes miss cues that we're upsetting/boring other people. That can look like low empathy, but it's really low social skills.
@@sifuller7456 I follow a bunch of autistic accounts online and have autistic family members and friends. It's a stereotype that really irks me because I know my friends, family, and the people I follow online all care about others and have strong senses of justice they just don't always express it well.
![[TH] FS vs BME - VCT Ascension Pacific - Lower Bracket Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wnygqsR2Fig/mqdefault.jpg)
Sokka is the equivalent of the "crouching moron hidden badass" trope but more so "crouching moron hidden genius" and really I love that about his character.
Sokka was the underdog of the show
A character I can relate to
I think that would describe Joseph Joestar as well. At least young Joseph. He seems like a childish goof until you realize that he's somehow been 6 steps ahead of you the whole time.
He's a goofball but no one said goofballs have to be dumb.
I self identify as a sokka
I find it quite funny how the smart guy in phantasy is usually a mage, but in Avatar, Sokka is explicitly defined as one of the few non-mages
Helps when the setting is filled with what are essentially, in tabletop terms, charisma and wisdom (or he’ll even constitution if we look to Pathfinder kineticists) casters instead of intelligent casters like wizards.
In Avatar bending is genetic (or some leyline or spirit bs; I’ve dumped lots of Kora lore memories frankly) so outside of learning techniques there’s a distinct lack of bookworms throwing super novas at the local library. Giant spirit owl notwithstanding.
It helps that magic in Avatar is much more esoteric. Bending is very tactile with the more out there, spiritual techniques like astral projection being very rare outside of the Avatar and Airbenders like Zaheer and Jinora. (And Iroh but of course HE can do what almost no one else can.)
Because bending is rooted in martial arts, the more mystical aspects are more about philosophy and mindset than understanding and deciphering codified systems as wizards and such are typically portrayed in the “magic as science” conception.
BUT because bending and spirits are so intangible on a fundamental level, Sokka excels at the tangible. What he can quantify, grasp, wrap his head around. So he can do many things from engineering, to poetry, to tactics, to investigation.
@@jemm113 Wth did you write in that comment? Was that aneurysm simulator?
Probably a result of avatar’s magic system being So combat based, you CANT be a glass canon AND a bender, because in Avatar, the line between being a physical powerhouse And a magical powerhouse gets real blurry.
@@John1045 from what i can tell, the man was mostly talking in dungeons and dragons or video game terms. charisma and wisdom or constitution for very some extremely obscure or niche classes is how the power and efficiency of spell classes other than wizard are determined in dungeons &Dragons. rather than intelligence or knowledge people who use spells that aren't wizards use different ways in order to do magic that isn't studying. he is basically comparing benders in avatar to these types of spell casters since their powers are more inherent or come from a source that isn't knowledge and studying.
What's neat about Sokka is that he's almost a tactical version of the Avatar. While Aang is learning bending, Sokka is learning strategies from all over the world.
He is also basically every smart guy archetype but the Mage.
He isn't really even the smart guy starting out, at least not especially obviously. It really seems to kick in around Kiyoshi Island where he gets humbled by the Kiyoshi Warriors and has to swallow his pride and admit his wordview is flawed and there is still a lot he has to learn.
Smart or not. it is impressive that Sokka learned all the non-bending fighting styles. He basically became the non-bending avatar ;p
Ty for saying this. So true
Trench warfare, chemical warfare, guerilla warfare, naval warfare, the four types of war were at war until the Geneva convention was made
That "smart guy being an antisocial jerk" trope is probably my biggest reason why Senku from Dr. Stone is one of my favorite smart characters of all time. It's very subversive, I think truly intelligent people would know to be kind to others.
I really like how Senku is one billion percent a paragon, but he has totally villainous mannerisms.
That, and he's a master of finding a solution to difficult situations that's both the most practical and the most ethical. Usually smart guys are the ones who present the leader with a choice between two terrible options. Senku is several times presented with choices like that, but he uses his smarts to find another, better option.
@@zoro115-s6b Senku taps into my favorite trope of all time: Taking the Third Option. When done with a dumb or just outwardly not-so-intelligent character it can have a nasty habit of seeming like an ass-pull if not set up properly. But when done with a convincingly well-done, intelligent character it can be the most hype thing in existence. It channels the perfect amount of the Diogenes spirit of “fuck you” to the villain, plot, and world at large.
It’s also hilarious when my Wizard (or the party Bard/other player duo) gets one over on the DM. Though funny enough my current character that does this is my conspiracy theory nut Warlock Sorcerer.
I just like that senku is self-confident. He understands his limits and works around them and that's it. He's also not supremely good at all things brainy since the mentalist guy whose name I forget rn has got senku brocking (explaining things in long-winded ways that are clearly addressed to a less-informed audience, similar to what brock from the pokemon anime does) at least a couple of times. Chrome and him also brock for senku several times, showing how each has a different intellectual strength. Because intellect isn't about a singular INT stat making you smarter or not. People have strong suits and weak suits, both in the knowledge aspect of the deal and the application of knowledge.
I think your comment touches on an important point of people's perception of what intelligence is and looks like. I love your conception of it includes understanding the importance of being kind to others.
This reminds me of Azimuth from Ben 10, it is said that every single incarnation of him across the Multiverse is a good guy because "he is too smart to be evil"
“The writer’s ‘clever plan-inator’” is the best way I’ve ever heard the plotting process described omg
"You see, Perry the Platypus, I realised that the reason I never succeed in conquering THE ENTIRE. TRI. STATE. AREA! is because while my inators are brilliant, my plans for how to use them are, well, not good.
Now, don't say anything. I know what you're thinking. 'Big shocker! Dumb Doof who always loses to me has dumb plans!' You know, Perry the Platypus, you can be very condescending sometimes. However, that won't matter anymore because I've found a solution.
BEHOLD! MY CLEVER PLAN-INATOR!"
@@theyakkoman and the clever plan-inator goes all Hal-9000 on him and he and perry have to team up to stop it.
@@demonminer8093 why was this not an actual episode? The joke's practically write themselves! Maybe the episode starts with the boys deciding to make an A.I. to do the neighbors homework for them and instruct it not to let their parents know and then Candace finds out and with the ever iconic "I'm telling mom" line the robot follows it's prime directive and attempts to eliminate Candace before she can snitch demonstrating the combat functions the boys built in because they were bored. It could be a terminator homage and everything!
@@latorasmith Good idea except P and F regularly go to extreme lengths to help kids WITH school and learning things (The Big Brain, give me a grade). The AI would probably be a tutor, but it's for Buford and he wants to keep it secret and that's why it goes haywire.
Why do I have a feeling like the clever plan-inator would be thrown off the tower, or at least gets launched far away from it, crash into the ai, effectively stopping it and looks like everything is broken and unable to be used. It all gets thrown in the trash, and then who knows how many episodes later, we find out that "oh, the big tri state area take over machine isn't the doof's but actually the fusion of the plan-inator and the ai"
(Why do I also feel like I just explained the plot of one of the Phineas and Ferb movies-)
I've found that the trick to writing a smart guy is to remember that as the writer, I have a luxury that my smart guy character doesn't: time. If you have a smart guy, write them into a corner and then take the time to figure out how they can get themselves out of it. This can make your smart guy seem brilliant because nobody needs to know just how long it took you to come up with the solution when the smart guy figures it out in seconds. I've found this to work equally well with both good and evil smart guys. Especially when you're able to come up with a solution based around information that your smart guy canonically knows.
This is the way, but also means that putting in the work to write a smart-guy well can take a LOT of resources.
Id also argue use references. Yeah beating some great god villain, or bokb of time whatever prob isnt something you can look up but you can reference likeness of real life peoples situations or characters you enoyed, then look up how the creator came about making them and the plan?
Hell yes, this exactly. I felt that incredibly much, just due to the difference of "play by post" DnD versus "at the table" DnD. (Or just tabletop in general)
The moment I have to improv a smart solution that my character can throw out, you can forget that I could ever make a convincing 'smart guy' move.
On the other hand, if you have the time to think things through - as in play-by-post - suddenly you've the time to spend on thinking through your options, plan around them, and even consider the potential consequences and how to deal with them.
An author can also use the resources available to them (the internet) that might not be available to the smart guy, to allow the character to Just Figure It Out while the author didn't have to.
And try to set up everything they'll use to get out of that corner beforehand
Chewie is the smart guy in the Chewie/Han Smart Guy/Big Guy duo. Despite being physically larger and more imposing, Chewie is usually depicted as the one who fixes the ship, is the better pilot, and is the more insightful of the two despite his inability to speak common. Han is the guy you point in a general direction and tell him to shoot things.
Chewie and han are more a Lancer/Big Guy duo.
Because Han does Show a Lot of Streetssmarts, while chewie shows book and emotional smarts.
I feel they fill two different smart guy roles but like Red said, “A character isn’t limited to their character roles in the five man band”.
Chewie also fills the stereotype of playing Space Chess, the origin of the "Let the Wookie win" quote. This, of course, also implies he's not great at Space Chess.
….no? How do you justify this? Did you forget that Han corrects Chewie’s work? They’re about equal in technical skill. On top of that, how is Chewie more “insightful?” What sort of fanfic have you written about these characters in your own head?
Chewie isn’t the Smart Guy. He’s the CoPilot. The slightly less, but better in other ways, to Han’s Pilot. He is technically knowledgeable, but in the same way Han is.
I would say Chewie is more of a Big guy/Heart, where Han is more of a Smart guy/Lancer to Luke.
Making the protagonist the smart guy is unironically hilarious for inner monologues.
"How the heck do i get outta this one-"
"I AM A GODDAMN GENIUS!"
"Nevermind I'm an idiot."
"Damn it everyone is looking at me again. Guess i gotta start making a plan."
"This is it, I'm gonna die with these idiots."
"Human interactions are like... what quantum physics is to you." "Uh confusing?" "Borderline impossible to understand."
Red Robin
That’s why Lelouch is my favorite
Regressor instruction manual does this. Way too well
I love when the smart guy is also the only person who has common sense and is constantly frustrated by everyone being idiots and looking at them for help.
A smart guy that lacks common sense is great too. Maybe they’re an expert engineer and can build high-tech machines and gadgets but otherwise seem dumb
@@daforkgaming3320*Nuclear Fusion plays in the background*
Red: "...hide behind the tank and chuck fireballs."
Me: "Hide behind the tank, a large rock, a solid stone column, a building, under a large table, across a river, across the nation, or from another continent entirely. Also, never underestimate the importance of a solid, oak table. A wizard worth their salt will be able to scan any bar and know INSTANTLY what's the best table to hide under in the place. Oh, and hay carts make lousy hiding spots. You'd think all that hay would be a great place to hide and chuck fireballs, but only a madman would hide in a place of very flammable stuff on top of a mobile funeral pyre."
Diskworld, right?
@@mirjanbouma Diskworld wizards generally get really good at *running,* which isn't quite the same as hiding.
@@Treegona I thought that was mostly Rincewind. Most wizards lack the physique for running, if I recall correctly.
@@mirjanbouma Oh nono, the cauldrons tend to explode, so everyone, even the fat ones, *especially* the fat ones, is Fast.
If you're a slow wizard, you die. It's natural selection.
@@Treegona well now I know I need to reread my Diskworld books, specifically the UA ones! You are absolutely right.
The sniper is one of the subcategories the smart guy can be part of, since you can give them a lot of power and still make them conditional, one of the few times when, if the situation calls for it and he is not just there for cover fire, the whole trope gets switched, with everyone becoming the support and trying to give the sniper a good opportunity.
I immediately thought of the Sniper in Team Fortress 2, I couldn't help it. But, ironically, the smart characters in TF2 would actually be the Engineer and the Medic
@@100lovenana Ok but arguably, Sniper is the most sane of the group. He does a job and does it well. Sure he throws jars of piss but hey, I didn’t say he’s completely sane, just the most sane
Ah yes, the Captain of an 8000 men fleet.
A smart sniper could also serve as the lancer.
@@100lovenana i thought you were talking about competitive tf2 for a sec, since the sniper is the most important class in highlander.
the entire teams job is to support him, due to how effective a good sniper is
One of my favorite examples of The Smart One is Erin Ruunaser, the Elemental Magus from a webcomic called Aurora, because his personality is mostly devoid of shows of intelligence (even his arrogance is mostly about his status), but he's consistently shown to have a plan and to figure out things quickly, and his intelligence informs a lot about this character (he really doesn't like when he's wrong, but he won't shy away from searching the truth even if he's skeptic from it).
In addition, despite being consistently shown as the most learned and logical, he's not always the one with the best grasp on the situation, as Falst, the Big Guy of the team, is more street-smart, and Kendal and Alinua, the Leader and the Lancer who both sub in for the Heart, have emotional intelligence and spiritual knowledge covered.
Man, if only I knew the author, I would love to congratulate them on their character work
If only
I haven’t read it yet, but I hear it should be very popular. It indeed would be very cool to know the author. Maybe someday.
Ah!! I love that comic too!! More people should really read it, it's fantastic.
Yes, everybody in Aurora manages to juggle the five-man tropes in engaging ways and every time a new character is added you wonder how the group survived without them before. The author truly deserves a publishing deal, whoever they may be.
@@measlyfurball37 (You do know who the creator is, right?)
I love how Toph is the “Big Guy” despite being tiny. Ember Island nailed it
The entire episode was filler where the writers just had fun laughing at themselves
@@carsoncasmirri3874 a recap episode so good people don't even realize its a recap episode
I choose to believe that since the Ember Island Players is basically pro-fire nation propaganda, no one wanted to admit that a little girl was talented enough as an earth bender to take down trained soldiers. So as the stories were gathered, fire nation soldiers kept lying and saying Toph was a huge, terrifying dude when in reality, she was a small, terrifying blind girl with incredible bending prowess
To be fair her personality is definitely the biggest.
My name is Toph cause it sounds like tough
I love how on the graph, literally no one can drive except the Lancer. One can only imagine the terrified screaming of the group as the Lancer character drives them off a cliff with a smirk.
Have you perchance watched the first episode of Voltron: Legendary Defender? If not, I suggest you check it out...
@@whiteraven181 I have and the only reason why I came up with that scenario is because of Voltron
He's had enough dying alone.
Sound's like Kevin from Ben 10 after time skip.
Wait the ho ho ho lancer?
My favorite version is the "Rube Goldberg hero," the one that is somewhat strong, but not strong enough to just faceroll the villains they fight, so instead they need to set up a complex series of conditions in which their relatively weaker powers are plenty to overcome the stronger foe. This is how Batman is used in his best JLA adventures. You need just enough power to not die while setting up the trap and to be able to activate the trap when the time comes, but the real strength is in setting up the unwinnable scenario for the opponent.
Shikamaru beating hidan
I think thats still a Xenatos
It's also, interestingly, a position almost every hero finds themselves in at some point.
Is that a Jojo's reference?
It’s funny cuz I make the argument that Superman isn’t the best JL member. It’s Batman… with prep time. I think the Arkham games does it’s best to showcase it because he takes down people so much stronger than him or the ones that have strong tech. It’s up to the player to figure it out. Brute force or superpowers help, but when you are going against a man that learns weaknesses to make it an even fight, giving him prep time is the most dangerous thing.
God I love party comps. Everyone having a role is really cool and I love that you had Sokka as clips for the “Smart Guy”
Reminds me of the last time I played DnD, where everyone wanted to be the healer. Or rather, everyone had a healing spell except for one guy who thought he had a healing spell. Yeah, he found out that Mend was for mending fabric, and not wounds.
@@cooltrainervaultboy-39 Those outfits aren't cheap. Honestly, I think Mend is the most important spell in that party.
@@cooltrainervaultboy-39 ok my mind instantly whent to uberchaining in tf2 : in wich two medics can basically take out everything they want if pepole aren't quick or smart enough to run away , wich is the only situation in wich a team of just healers can work out
@@cooltrainervaultboy-39 Mend should help when someone rips the stitches.
@@osirisatot19 He's definitely the smartest, but because he has to rely on his brainpower all the time he gets exhausted and just shuts it off to do impulsive shit. After all the sleuthing at the library, he impulsively drinks cactus juice because his brain wants to go to sleep. I know a lot of really intelligent, hard-working people that are massive dumbasses outside of work because by that point in the evening their brains have given up. Also broing around with Aang turns Sokka into an idiot, and if you've ever been in a frat you know that they are 50 IQ points dumber in a group than they are individually
I just realised Raven and Cyborg share the smart guy role for two different reasons: he's the tech, she's the mage.
Which makes me think: what if two characters shared the "smart guy" role but together only... like you have the Big Guy and the Heart, but when together they become the Smart Guy of the band.
Same if it's the Lancer and Leader; and when you think about it, it can be a "basic story" in itself: Leader and Lancer must put aside their differences and work together as "The Smart Guy" of the group.
I mean, that could make sense, the Big Guy has lots of thoughts, but can't exactly sort through them for the good ideas alone. That's where the Heart comes in, offering advice, but also recognizing that a lot of their plans are way better than what they could come up with
Neither is the smart guy alone, but together, they could probably figure out the plot in idle chatter.
its how its also debatable about who is really big guy as well...as raven is by all means the strongest...but that role is also shared with star fire and cyborg at various times.
Beast boy also shares the role of heart with Starfire and Robin can also be the weak and unskilled smart guy leader and tactician.
It like red said they aren't solely define by one role but actually fill several roles.
Street smart: Beast boy
Techie : Cyborg
The mage: Raven
Tactician: Robin
The whole team are pretty smart in their individual area of expertise. I dont think there was a designated smart guy in the team.
What about two smart guys that are put together and become idiots
@@pingdragonify
Well Cyborg usually because he was the tech guy and built all their equipment
would be so cool to see you talk about "enemy of my enemy" trope
where the protagonist joins forces with villains to defeat even bigger villains
I think this most often happens when either:
The first villain has already made a frienemy relationship with the heros, usually out of having an actual conversation/forced to help eachother (say prison break or survial situation).
Or villain 1 want to rule the world but villain 2 want to destroy it. Motives matter, a mafia boss will usually do something like pay back a debt or say "I'm defending my home, get over it" and the Hero usually has already been having a crisis about how they can't beat Villain 2 on their own.
Also bonus points when the 2 villains and the Hero are all mutual foils. Like Batman, Poison Ivy, and Joker. Batman is a hero balancing right with legal, Ivy is an exo terrorist (good motives bad actions), and Joker is just walking chaos and obsession. (I know better examples exist but this is an easy one)
Ahhh, the “Vader chucking Emperor” effect. Nothing more badass. Hell, whenever Doom joins up with the avengers cause the universe is on the line is always a treat. Can’t happen with the same villain too often though, or else it’s like they’re just faking being a bad guy or they’re just morally inconsistent. Or, and this is one of my favs: a delicious shade of grey, where they have strict moral codes that motivate them in positive ways every now and again.
@@jasonreed7522 Harry Dresden and Gentalman Johnny Macone.
Alien invasions are often good for that. In The Batman cartoon, Gordon pragmatically backs up the villains who escaped Arkham who were already in the middle of fighting the alien invaders. Joker mostly did it because only HE gets to terrorize Gotham. In the series finale of Justice League Unlimited, the "not spaced for mutiny" members of the Legion of Doom teamed up with the JL against Darkseid's full frontal invasion. In Reboot, the bad guys help the protags fend off an invasion of viruses from the net. At least before betraying the protags when it seems like the invasion is under control. Or when the lawful neutral Nova Corp fights alongside the chaotic good(?) Ravagers to fight off the lawful evil Ronin.
@@geraldgrenier8132 ^^
Not me with the "Random Trivia Facts" Guy
"Oh yeah this monument is magic! It was built by Agora, a sculptor who disappeared mysteriously a hundred years ago, alongside a prince!"
"Wait it's magic?"
"Yep!"
"Could you maybe elaborate on that?"
"I would, but I have no idea what it actually does, I just skimmed a fact book when I was twelve."
I feel called out
if I ever went to some magical adventure land, this would be me. I know the bare minimum required to be considered as smart, but anything beyond that is a mystery to me
Don't do this to me. I was that kid who just read random Wikipedia articles when board. I know about a ton of things with most of them having the depth of a puddle.
@@jonathantadlock-stein2023 That's me in real life.
I have no interest in knowing the details of things but I do want to know how shit functions.
So what I know about science is all rather surface level.
Chemistry, space, physics, evolution, etc.
But yea, been called smart all my life because of that even though it has little to do with intelligence. My parents made the usual mistake of calling me smart way too much that as a kid I even believed it. I'm not dumb but no, I'm not a smart kid, lol.
In my case I would remember the useful detail long after the window to use it strategically has closed.
Ah Leverage, where the Mastermind does the Trope of Speed Chess while *actually* playing Speed Chess.
And the super hacker is a nerd who unironically loves star trek, video games and world of warcraft, and somehow isn't cringe. He still has personality beyond those things, and perfect chemistry with the rest of the cast.
@@benjaminc924 Let's be honest, almost all of them were pretty great characters, the only one we don't really see much of their actual character, was Sophie. We were never really conclusively and consistently given her real identity, or what she was like outside of running cons or _trying_ to act.
@@willparry530 I feel like, especially with her development in season 2, we did get a lot of characterisation from her? i agree that we see her acting a lot, so she doesn't get to be herself as much as the other characters on the job, but in all the Inbetween moments and even while conning we do get more characterisation than expected. personally, i feel like the character with the least development is hardison, although both Sophie abd Hardison get a lot of screentime/characterisation via their romance plots, and so don't stand as much on their own
@@Plotbunnyhunter Ehhh, her screen time even in season 2 is debatable. In the end we still don't even know her real name. At least with Elliot we know it's probably his real name, and that he has an estranged father, though we may not know why they are estranged.
@@willparry530 for 'Sophie' there was an in-universe excuse.
As everyone else in the main group, she is an extreme example of her role/expertise. (Possibly even slightly more so, as 'pretend you're someone else' is something the entire team does to some extent)
The 'has difficulty walking past people without picking their pocket'-parker equivalent would be 'even the personality familiar to closest friends is a lie' (see white collar's mozzie, or another Gina Bellman character: coupling's 'D'you know, I could get away with anything when I was my crazy twin Jane'-Jane)
While it 'makes sense', I agree it makes her the least-developed of the main cast.
(There are some interesting implications, but when you're 'the liar', pulling off a 'deep dive' is 'a Joker origin story'-levels of difficult)
It would be interesting to split up the ways of being smart between the party:
The Leader is observant and intelligent,
The Wizard/Techie is books-smart,
The Heart is good with psychology,
And the Muscle sticks to common sense when everyone else misses the most obvious solution
so the muscle would be the one guy to actually try opening the door to the prison if they were ever captured, and find out it was never locked?
Simon is the Brains of the Group in Alvin & The Chipmunks,Donatello is the Brains in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Kowalski is the Brains of the Group in Penguins Of Madagascar.
I think this was the way TMNT was made actually. (I only watch the 2012 reboot and Rise, with a bit of the 2003 on the side but still)
Leo is the leader, the one behind every plan, and also the one who will have to devise a plan during a mission if something unexpected happen.
Donnie, the smart guy, and he is as you say, books-smart. He is the one that usually finds the solution to the more complicated life or death problem. Especially the one that involves another alien's technology.
Mikey, the heart of the team or as I usually call him the emotional core of the team. He might not be as smart as Donnie or Leo to devise a plan to take the enemies' down. Hell, he might be the one that was in trouble in the first place. But, he is the one that usually keep the group together in tough situations, boosting the team's morale and sometimes even proves to be smarter and capable of solving a problem if he just try hard enough.
And if all else fails, we have Raph to kick some sense into the team. Even though all of his methods seem like pure brute force, most of the times, he's the one with the sense in the team. He will be the one to say how bad and idiotic it is to trust someone from the foot, or to let a bad guy go just because we are "not the same as them".
@@loveyphoenix494 so if it was Penguins Of Madagascar it would be
Skipper=Leader
Kowalski=Brains
Private=Heart and Rico=Muscle
@@loveyphoenix494 the TMNT Character and their Roles they were giver are perfect.Leonardo is the Leader,Donatello is the Brains,Raphael is the Muscle and Michelangelo the Heart.
I was hoping you'd bring up Entrapta, especially when discussing the frequent neurodivergence of the smart guy. She is very coded that way, from her hyperfixation on robots/tech, to her lack of social graces, etc. I think she's really well-written and the few characters who tend to dismiss her or get annoyed with her grow to appreciate her and how she expresses herself (I'm thinking of Scorpia's talk with Mermista about how to treat Entrapta better).
coded? pretty sure the director confirms it, I love Entrapta she's such an interesting character
@@artist0154 couldn't remember if she'd confirmed it or not, but that's even better! I love her too, she and Mermista are tied for my favorite princess
shes one of my favourite characters, peridot from steven universe as well
I personally found her one of the weaker characters, given how she easily moved over to the side of people that she knew full well conquered and killed most of the planet just so she could tinker with tech, some of it weapons that would then be set upon innocent people. I found it glaring in that regard, as if neurodivergent people have no moral compass.
@@martine5604 Entrapta was, in part, written by an autistic person. As an autistic person myself, I really appreciated that the sent her down that road and brought her back from it having learned that she needs to open up her tunnel vision and look at the bigger picture.
I know I can turn into a real jerk when I'm too focused on my special interests. I totally drop my personal life and hurt my relationships if I don't watch myself.
One of the reasons Sokka shines so much is because of the care they put into the world of Avatar. It's so easy in stories with worlds that involve different groups with inherent powers (Benders/Non-Benders, Mutants/Non Mutants, Quirks/Quirkless etc) to just give up on trying to balance it and simply have the more powerful group be the bad guy, the force to overcome, or just hands down better. The stories and conflicts never get resolved or devolve into one of the powerful groups fighting their own on behalf of the puny mortals.
Avatar was the first real show I had sesen that balanced this. Benders had an edge, but they aren't gods and can make the same mistakes. It's not the be-all-end-all of power, it's simply something that's added to that character's toolkit. Sokka is a tactical genius and it shows.
I wrote a character in a superhero/supervillain years ago called "Omnibus". He was connected to every alternate version of himself across the multiverse, but only subconsciously. A side effect of this was a kind of cosmic awareness: he had the potential not only to know everything every version of him knows, but the threads connecting himselves/herselves/themselves (English doesn't have a good word for multiple selves) "tune in" these selves to cosmic structures. The obvious downside to knowing something about everything, or everything about something, is that a basically human mind can't stand up to that kind of input. His safeguard: he could only tap into the knowledge if *someone* *else* asked him a question. This kept him from falling down the rabbit hole of all the things he could know by making the ability to tap into infinite knowledge external to the person with the ability.
I kind of got a kick out of the idea of a character who was potentially incredibly powerful, but was effectively only as good as the questions he was asked.
So basically rimuru
this owns so much though omg
I have a similar character named "Agen Rall-Pale" as an NPC in my D&D campaign, although maybe a bit less powerful. His eyes look like the void of space - black with stars shining in them. He has the ability to see alternate dimensions and the potential futures/actions of himself and others. This has led to him becoming quite aloof and he struggles with living in the moment, because he can see so many possibilities ahead of him.
That's a very cool and original way to work it! Not too Deus ex machina, still very powerful, good safeguard. I'm no writer or writing teacher but you get full marks from me 👍🏻
So he was a little like the Smart Guy version of He-Man: Always as smart/strong as he needs to be.
"Every character has a space of situations they're good at handling, and a space of situations they're bad at handling."
I was about to make a joke about Mary Sues, but I just realized, it even applies to them -- they're good at handling praise or being the only reason the plot resolves, and bad at generating interesting plots or character interactions.
Yea, a lot of sues are actually, ironically, terrible at any form of problem solving, because all problems they face end up getting solved through deus ex machina. I could actually see it being an interesting premise that a character suddenly loses the special plot protection. Like, say, some supernatural entity blesses the protagonist with Good fortune until they turn twenty, prior to which everything just sort of... Worked out for them, but now they have to learn to navigate actual problems that they need to solve.
@@zoro115-s6b Larry Niven's Ringworld explores what happens when one of your secondary characters is a Mary Sue. Her main character trait is extreme hereditary luck.
NAH. Nobody cares if a male character is like this. It’s exclusively used to knock female characters, and is often applied ANYWAY to female characters who are nuanced in personality and/or skillsets.
..like. Example? Literally every “classic” Male Stoic or Lonewolf “hero” is bland af and often an asshole but Ofc Hypercompenent to “back up” that “he’s fine/better alone” this and “completely 100% justified for treating people like shit and being a jerk” that.
Long live the so-called “Mary Sues.”
@@anonymousfellow8879 The Male characters You're describing are also terrible, they just don't trigger the vocal neckbeards.
@@anonymousfellow8879 "exclusively used to knock female characters" technically your right since the term for male characters is Gary Stu....
But I can disprove the intention of what your saying with one word, Kirito.
About half of the people I know (that have seen SAO) don't like it and the criticism always starts with Kirito is a Gary Stu (though he isn't a jerk like many so many of the other textbook examples).
Anybody else notice that the entire time she was talking about the Smart Guy being relegated to an exposition machine the clips were laser focused on Endgame Hulk?
Yeah. She (for some reason) has a huge hate-boner for the Avengers films.
well yeh, even banner himself straight states this in ragnarock, to which thor basically says "yeh, so?". hes essentially relegated to being a mcguffin until his allotted 10 minutes of either smashing stuff or thinking stuff. he literally has less character than the iron man suit/ jarvis
Can't wait for red to talk about the Twins trope
Whether they're identical or not, mirror versions of eachother or total opposites, or heck maybe its just a "you look like me wanna switch places cuz our lives currently suck" situation, its a really interesting trope to me
Oh boy, that would bring up other sub-tropes like the evil twin or the "Prince and Pauper" situation of exchanging identities. Sooo many examples are appearing in my head: the Pines twins (Gravity Falls), Starfire and Blackfire, the original Prince and the Pauper, the Sonozaki sisters (Higurashi), etc.
@@100lovenana Are Starfire and Blackfire twins? I thought Blackfire was older.
Do you mean actual twins, or two people that happen to look exactly alike and decide to trade life for whatever reason? Those two are very different
Shoutout to Spud from American Dragon: Jake Long, who is eventually revealed to be an absolute genius, but he hates the expectations that come with that so he pretends to be as dumb as humanly possible. Also, shoutout to Sly 3 for basically being one giant examination of how smart guys relate to leaders/heroes.
Bentley is a fantastic example of the trope, especially considering where his character goes with the introduction of Penelope. They're both such fun extrapolations of the trope.
@@TheWatcher51393 And then they never made a fourth game that completely ruined her character.
@@Bobb11881 None that I can recall anyway... there is no war in Ba Sing Se.
@@TheWatcher51393 I 100% agree with this, Bentley is my favorite character in the Sly games and it’s really cool seeing how far he developed. He went from a turtle that was scared of going out on the field on mission and being on the side to a team member that may be scared, but goes onto the field with his friends despite what happened to him in the second game.
Also making Sly 3 interesting was that the villain is a dark foil of Bentley: the former Smart Guy of Sly's father's team who went full villain out of jealous and is confused that Bentley hasn't done the same.
The second she said "The Mastermind" my mind inmediately went to leverage, and then the video used it as an example. This thing is incredibly well structured holy shit.
Not always, but oh my word, you have to watch an episode like three or four times, or sit down and diagram it, before you see the plot holes. That's _still_ incredible craftsmanship, some plots will have holes if you put them on a TV show, no matter what, to hide them that well is exemplary
"What is nerdy nowadays?"
Being a tech millionaire at 21.
No, that’s just being the only child of a tech billionaire.
NERRRRRRRRDDDDDDDD! 😂
THANK YOU for mentioning the whole iffiness of other characters making fun of the Smart Guy's interests, that was always a trope that bothered me in otherwise fine stories.
But like they are nerds so they deserve it
@@seanrobertson3094 Nerds or not, picking on then is not cool.
Now I kinda want a story about a story about what at the start looks like a stereotypical tough guy smart guy duo, with the antagonist thinking so too, leading to the antagonist try to use it against the duo. Only it to be revealed that they are both adept at the others proficiency do to their time spent together. Like the "Smart guy" beating the shit out of the goons with the motherboard, with surprising strength, because he has trained with the "tough guy" for just such an occasion, while the "thought guy" takes over the energy network of the station with the knowledge he gained from spending time with the "smart guy" while he was tinkering.
That typo is somehow fitting.
When thinking about these kind of duos this sounds like the most logical option/result, smart and strong spending so much time together that they both learnt from each other's perspective and the way they approach to things
Comic stories "Nerd and Jock" are partially about this)
When Red mentioned how writing a neurodivergent-coded smart guy character isn’t inherently bad, I Immediately thought of Marcy Wu from Amphibia. She’s heavily neurodivergent coded (unintentionally, somehow) and definitely the team “smart guy,” and it feels like the fandom collectively decided she was our new favorite character within minutes of her introduction
In watch dogs 2, they had a hacker on their squad named hawt sauce that was on the spectrum. He was awesome
I immediately thought of Marcy when the picture for “tactician” showed someone playing chess, and she’s definitely my favorite character in the show, partially because she’s a huge nerd. She’s also just a really good balance to the other characters in general, because as much as I love Anne, Sprig, and the others, they aren’t they best in the intelligence department. She’s also just written really well in my opinion.
I love Marcy!
Lmao no one knows who josh is
Just the fact that they unintentionally hit the nail on the head, like they even got the dinosaur arm position down
For the neurodivergent smart guy role, I found Entrapta from the recent She-Ra reboot to be a positive example of the trope. She's on the autistic spectrum and hyper focused on technology to the point that she tends to be morally neutral. At the same time, she acknowledges her difficulties with understanding interpersonal communications yet frequently strives to overcome that perceived failing. She's not a jerk, she just doesn't get how she affects others at times. Her arc is even centered on overcoming her fixations to focus on helping the friends she's made. Most importantly, she shows herself to be a full character, showing empathy to those dealing with issues she can relate to, developing relationships, and even acting kinda horny at times. Not a fighter by any stretch, but by the end she's evolved enough to take on elements of the heart role where certain other characters are concerned.
Could it be that Leverage had 5 smart guy characters but with diferent smart guy traits mixed with all the other traits in different levels? That's so cool!!
Yep. They are all really damn smart at what they do and just smart in general. In the pilot they even reference that, when Parker says she's really good at one thing but Nate is really good at a lot of things...one of my favorite things about the show is how they all grow to be better at a lot of things by the end, so much so that Parker becomes the Mastermind.
I was just sitting through the whole 'smart guy on the spectrum' section like
"Talk about Entrapta talk about Entrapta damnit!"
I was waiting for that too. I love Entrapta.
7:15 I love the Six of Crows and Crooked Kingdom having the ‘Smart Guy’ as the Leader too, Kaz is really effective.
The smart guys are one of my favorite archetypes, mostly because of the mage smart guy. As someone who was really not that physically active as a kid, I always found them really cool! Not only do they help their team with their intelligence but they are also powerful enough to defeat villains, sometimes on their own. Bonus points if the villain team also has a smart guy and both of them later become rivals or even frenemies of some sort.
My favourite use of the "smart guy" trope is Timothy Zahn's Thrawn books. Literally every important character could be seen as a "smart guy" in other stories but in Zahn's work, being smart is just a prerequisite. Instead, they all fill another role in addition to being the "smart guy" in their area of expertise.
Brains:Donatello(Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles),Kowalski(Penguins Of Madagascar) and Simon(Alvin & The Chipmunks).
i absolutely love that she used three separate characters from the Leverage five man band as examples of subsets of the smart guy. my heart is happy
Honestly was waiting for Parker to pop up when she referenced the neurodivergent smart guy but yep, I was gleeful watching this and seeing all my babies.
As an autistic person, I really appreciate how respectful you are when you talk about certain tropes that come off as ableist. It's really refreshing and I can't tell you how nice it is to hear, so thank you c:
Seconded!
Thirded!
Fourthed!
Fifthed!
Sixthed
As a neurodivergent person myself (whose special interest is the entire field of worldbuilding and storycrafting) I almost always end up making the Smart Guy or the Heart (or both) neurodivergent as well. Sometimes by accident, usually on purpose in the case of the Smart Guy because it gives me an excuse to let my brain relax and not get hung up on how a neurotypical person would react/respond. And because the idea of, "I had to work Really Hard to understand [physics/people/magic/emotions] and overshot," makes sense to me.
(Allow me to infodump, since we're talking neurodivergence and character tropes, and I am indeed a Meganerd for this kind of thing)
One of the other things I love doing with Smart Guys (and intelligent characters in general) is purposefully defining what kind of smart they are. Like, are they "nature" smart where they can tell you which way north is on a moment's notice or figure out what the weather is going to do? (Which is what I am, so these characters are very easy for me to write.) Are they people smart? Self smart? Are they musically or artistically smart? Spatially smart? Kinesthetically smart? (Aka possessing of a very accurate and trustworthy muscle memory.) Linguistic, logical, strategic, etc... there are a LOT of different kinds of "smart" and I tend to split up them up when considering party balance as well. That way I know A) if there is some skill overlap, they might not apply those skills in the same way because their focuses are different, and B) I might always have a "best at [_]" and a "second-best at [_]" to call on for certain scenarios if the best-at character is gone for some reason.
Also LEVERAAAGE!!! Always love a Leverage B-roll. :D
the Leader(Skipper,Leonardo)
the Brains(Kowalski,Donatello)
the Muscle(Rico,Raphael)
the Heart(Private,Michelangelo)
"what is niche and nerdy these days?" one thing that comes to mind is a hobby I have called "non-professional developer" where the a someone makes a video game, not really with the intent of selling it, but just for fun.
This gets an extra layer of nerdiness when it's for some obsolete platform. making a new game for an older system, especially one that's no long supported by it's manufacturer, requires quite a high level of nerdiness.
for example people still make games for the Game Boy Advanced, which is insane but impressive.
This kind of made me think about Tulip from Infinity Train.
I think Sypha from Castlevania is one of the best because she has emotional intelligence and is also super strong, just in all different ways then Trevor.
It's nice to get a wizard character that's extroverted and personable. They get a lot of the same stereotypes as the computer nerd.
exactly!!
@@pocketlint60 i love that about her so much. she's flirty, loud, extroverted and runs headfirst into situations a lot. yes, she's smart and good at figuring things out, but her short fuse temper and passion for things is an interesting contrast that prevents her from falling into the sarcastic cold smart guy trope. it lends her character a lot of depth
I like the smart guy because they’re typically the ones who can hold their own against the group if and when they turn evil. The leader typically never turns evil, and when any of the others do it’s typically more out of emotion. When the smart guy does evil it comes from a logical standpoint and more well thought out.
When you said Smart Guy I was thinking of
Donatello from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Kowalski from Penguins Of Madagascar
Simon from Alvin & The Chipmunks
@@ginrod9392 God I miss kowalski
@@chasecollins3263 What about Donatello from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles or Simon from Alvin & The Chipmunks?.
@@ginrod9392 Donatello was a bit before my time and I remember simon fondly.
@@chasecollins3263 Yeah the TMNT came out in ‘84 and Alvin & The Chipmunks came out in ‘58,but the Animated TV Show came out in ‘83 and the Penguins weren’t introduced until ‘05.
Asperger's here; can confirm, extremely insulting when the neurodivergent character flips between "plot-solving ultra genius" and "malfunctioning 80's computer" at the drop of a hat. Further insults are the Sheldon Cooper, Rain Man and Cheese (Foster's Home) type characters being the ONLY representation we seem to get; it's almost like writers think those are the only variants from "normal" that EXIST
Yes I absolutely despise Sheldon Cooper for that reason. >_< There is no reason that neurodivergent people should be labeled as emotionless or lacking empathy as if they are incompatible with intelligence. In reality this is almost never the case the most dangerous real world psychopaths are those that use manipulation to rise into positions of power.
To be fair, there's lots of other neurodivergent characters, it's just that the writers and majority of the audience don't know they're neurodivergent.
See: literally every shonen anime protagonist.
@@zoro115-s6b Rather, that a good neurodivergent character can be written by accident, like Calvin and Hobbes, Dexter's Laboratory or, bizarrely enough, Goo (also Foster's Home)
Despite its flaws and the fact it will probably never be finished, I feel like Log Horizon is a good example of a story led almost exclusively by leader/smart guys who fill other roles to varying degrees. The edge is gained in different situation based not exclusively on innate intelligence, but on the importance of learning how things work while actively in the process of doing them. The characters who succeed the most aren't strictly smarter than the others, but the ones who have the most wiggle room in their plan for unexpected chaos, or the ability manage their people and resources most effectively.
I'm still sad about Log Horizon. It was such a good written approach to a smart character.
@@meat-teilung6861 What happened to it?
One of my favorite game series from my childhood, Sly Cooper, handled the smart guy pretty well
He is the smart, planner and hacker turtle for the whole series, but he grows a lot as a person as he is forced to save his friends from prison alone. He starts out stuck in a jungle, scared for his life but pulls through and saves his friends and is a lot more confident in himself at the end of that chapter.
Sly Cooper is my favorite game series of all time. I love how each game improves on one another. I mean the first game might as well be like the pilot episode of a TV show. I love the growth of every character. Vilians like the panda king, and even Carmelita. My favorite though has to be Murray's growth. All of the characters change in reasonable ways that dont seem out of character. But the real reason it's my favorite series is I love hack n slash and climbing junk. My favorite games have tight controls where you don't have to wait on an animation. Assassins creed likes to act like they invinted climbing but while I do like the series, in my opinion the climbing is slow and clumsy. I think the perfect ideal climbing game is prince of Persia... the 2008 version. I haven't played the 2010 game but it does piss me off that they made 2 games with the same damn name. Mean it's not like they are made by different people, but whatever. Anyway it's all the other stuff that really makes sly Cooper my favorite. If prince of Persia had a different combat system then it would probably be my favorite. I guess that goes into my love of platforming in general. Like I loved tomb raider underworld as a kid, even if I was too young to figure out any of the puzzles. I've always loved the portal series and it's a huge part of what informs my taste in games but I only recently started playing half life. So far it's giving me a little bit of everything I like. Smooth controls, interesting platforming, great combat, huge rooms that make no sense, and a lot of really silly junk. While it is a pc game and I grew up on console so I missed a lot of pc classics, it still gives me a lot of the vibes that make the ps2 my favorite console. And it's not like a nostalgia thing, it's more of the fact that a lot of genres I love have died over the years. If modern game companies were still making games like jak and daxter (and I'm not talking about sequels, those don't count) of Oni I definitely wouldn't hold on to the ps2 with such a death grip. I just want to play some good 2d or 3d platforms without them being bogged down by modern game design. I also don't mind first person platformers and have no problems with them, but I do see why people aren't as big of a fan and developers shy away from it. Anyway kinda rambled until I ran out of junk to say.
The Smart Guy has almost been my favourite character archetype ever since I was a kid. Growing up as a neurodivergent and physically weedy nerd, I just relate to Smart Guys *a lot* more, especially since as you said, many of them are coded as neurodivergent.
It always surprises me how the series Firefly embodied the "complementary skills" family of tropes. I suppose Simon would have been the archetype "smart guy," but other characters had different types of smart.
I think Simon and Kaylee kind of share the dual smart guy/heart role.
I think one of my favorite types of characters is a variation of the smart guy that I like to call the competent guy. They are the characters that ask the right questions and think things through when confronted with an issue. Sure, they don't always succeed (it would be boring if they did), but when they fail, it is not due to their own stupidity. A lot of authors make characters look smart by making everyone around them dumb, or have them overcome a problem through what essentially boils down to shear dumb luck. Competent characters succeed because they can problem solve, plan, and generally take an active role in achieving success, rather than needing to be rescued by a last minute powerup or deus ex machina. A great example of this is Arya Stark in A Game of Thrones when she is trying to escape the Red Keep after Ned's arrest. She realizes that the guards are looking for a scared noble girl trying to escape, not a random street urchin going about their day. It's a great chapter, because readers get to both appreciate Arya's incredible bravery (calmly walking past guards who would imprison her if they recognized her) and general competence.
I like this with Team Four Star in how Krillin talks about Bulma at one point. Android 18's just been spit out by Cell, and Krillin says to Vegeta, "I'm taking her to a...doctor...mechanic...I'm taking her to a Bulma." XD I LIKE the smart guy archetype, especially when it's a smart woman.
I'm glad you addressed the dangers of writing a Neurodivergent character without examining them first. As one of these people, I thank you. In contrast to "General" rules about Neurodivergence, I actually understand sarcasm and enjoy wordplay, though I don't much like other people. I can also be Empathetic, both over and under, depends on the day.
Honestly, it's more shallow stereotypes mostly based young children at this point combined with the tendency to default to Autism when hearing neurodivergent when it includes tons of other things like ADHD, Dyslexia and arguably also mental illnesses.
Most Autistic people I know do very much like puns and have some grasp of sarcasm, though the latter tends to vary between "Understand the concept and can recognize it okay with people I know" to "Must actively restrain myself from being the worst snarker in history and recognize it as well or even better than most Neurotypicals" depending on the person.
Empathy is, similarly, complex and I think the main thing that can be said is that it tends to be much more consistent both between people and over time for Neurotypicals.
Personally I really wish that some would take notice of how some people compensate for, say, not being able to read faces well by focusing on how the person talks or relates to others which leads to a somewhat different social strength/weakness profile than people who can rely on faces tend to have.
Regarding the rant about poor representations of neurodivergent characters, yes yes yes yes yes we love to see it! Keep up dunking on the closeminded among the neurotypicals!
As for the question of what even is nerdy these days --- math. Pure math is still seen as nerdy (even in an engineering school!) (Edit: and I say this as someone interested in pure math but currently in an engineering school.)
I can confirm. I am the nerd in a school full of very intelligent people. I am the nerd because I love doing math pure and simple.
What's your guys' thoughts on Edward from cowboy bebop? Good representation or annoying stereotype?
Seriously? I always saw it as very high academic.
Oviously i am good at math so that is maybe why.
@@ericquiabazza2608 At my school, you get some respect for it but with a healthy dose of "you're insane."
@@kenmoretoast Honestly, I'm afraid I don't know that show.
"what's is nerdy these days?"
I'd say antiques and vintage media. Think thrift store stuff like old sewing machines, obscure vinyl or cassettes... Me and my little cousin share those interests and are considered very nerdy.
Also, I'm asperger, so I always related more with the smart-guy archetype, and yeah, intentionally spectrum coded characters are not often good. But I think it's mainly because the unitentional ones start by being made naturally, and the label follows because it fits, rather then making a character fit the label.
as someone also autistic and also relating to this archetype, my interests are especially in the zoology realm-- someone who's really into snakes, frogs, and bugs would definitely fall into the weird niche interest trope
@@micahpolsky7498 i mean idk, channels like tier zoo are insanely popular, but it does depend on exactly how do you forward your interests
@@carso1500 I would argue it also depends on how you consume that information and with what level of voracity. I watch a lot of cooking youtube on my lunch breaks, but I couldn't nerd out and tell you about bread hydration and the effects of different fats in baking.
@@lindseys3708 honsetly that sounds like a conversation that i would enjoy
That note about party comp in stuff like D&D makes me think, me and my friends rarely worry about party comp, having more of the same thing isn't worth nothing and sometimes there's stuff that no one in the party can do well. Sometimes the DM makes those things none of us can do a problem we encounter and I find those moments pretty fun, personally. I'd love to see a show with a cast that has something similar.
I absolutely LOVE Reagan's character in Inside Job. She's such a great blend of smarts and personality, and her flaws give her so much depth. It's just refreshing to see a main character who's socially inept, but is forced to take a leadership role and learn to appreciate her team. That development is great to watch!
It’s really satisfying to see a well-written character’s knowledge and cleverness in action.
I appreciate you touching on the subject of neurodivergency. When NT's try to write ND's without properly understanding them or even trying to, it just leads to more harmful stereotypes and misconceptions. I'm glad it's starting to change and we're seeing more content created by ND's that portrays and captures the actual ND experience without limiting it to superficial attributes
Loving the leverage call outs. Unashamedly my favorite comfort show and I'll happily tout how underrated it is to anyone.
Any similar shows you recommend? Finally finished leverage :)
I think Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn's Sazed is a great example of an "Encyclopedia" archetype that really shines in terms of its integration with the character and the plot, if any know it.
I always appreciate a Mistborn appreciatior. Sazed was always one of my favourite characters.
Speaking if characters that can look at clues and put them together Stocke in Radiant Historia is a satisfiying example.
In many RPGs the protagonist is clueless about what is going on but he pretty much figures out stuff as quick as the player does and only looks to confirm his suspicions.
More smart guys should be like that.
Hey, someone remembers that game! Though it's technically as much you the player as the written character figuring it out. I assume that helps with immersion.
So the Heavy from tf2 (based from his backstory) is the Genius Bruiser, since he has a Ph. D in Russian Literature while wielding a $400000 minigun for 12 seconds.
Edit: the Engineer and Spy are usually the geniuses without the insane strength
While Pyro is probably Engineer smart while also being a Chaotic Neutral Pyromancer.
Don't forget Medic, considering he outsmarted bullet and successfully haggled with the devil.
It's implied he's done that SEVERAL times.
So we got Pyro, Heavy, Engineer, Spy, Medic, what roles do Scout, Soldier, Demoman and Sniper fill?
@@amithabraham2224 Scout, Soldier and Demo generally fill the role of a lose Canon fighter.
They are not always the greatest fighter or the smartest person around. Actually, most of the time they re definitely not. But they have their moments of brilliance for comedic value, simular to how Pyro appears innocent and cudly until it is their moment and you find out they are not only comically competent, but also really bloodthirsty.
Can't really put sniper anywhere.
That part about the possible downsides of making a smart guy neurodivergent, 13:06 specifically, was literally me. Not entirely sure how I feel about that, but my personality type being INTP may have something to do with it.
also sounds like my latest d&d character, interestingly enough. basically, he’s a warforged artificer (yes i like machines more than people and play the adeptus mechanicus what’s your point) that went batshit insane. fun stuff.
Sokka being the smart guy by process of elimination just makes waaaaaaay too much sense for him.
And the only two Encyclopedias I accept are 1) A guy who observes everything even though he never opens his eyes and has used his trusty frying pan as a dying pan and 2) A guy with a sledgehammer and cool hat he got off a dead, Italian guy.
Do you change 'with/without' every time you grow a mustache or there is an imposter?
A smart guy who observes everything is using his brain to its full capacity
I just binged this entire series. 15+ hours of content. I have zero regrets, it was absolutely fantastic
I never write “the smart guy” because almost all my characters are smart. Stupid characters are often not very interesting to write. With that said, writing a story full of smart people is really hard to do.
I feel like Artemis Fowl is kind of the platonic ideal of the specific "tactician" flavor of this trope, in the books anyway. But you could totally argue that Foley is more of a Smart Guy than Artemis, since even though Artemis' inability to do anything physical is mocked in each book, he is still physically where the action is. Foley isn't ever present, so he's more defined by his limitations than even Artemis
My favorite Smart!SmartGuy trope: High INT, Low WIS
Like they’d prolly be a himbo IF they didn’t have a master’s degree-also as someone who’s friends with a physicist, this is VERY accurate to IRL as they deal with their coworker’s shenanigans + sometimes gets neat antidotes from their disaster!professors (esp in higher academia vs early undergrad)
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TBB Rambling:
(This is also where Tech and Echo differ in TBB and it is beautiful. -now to see s2 fully run with Echo as Hunter’s Lancer (literally the common sense/moral compass and advice guy) and. Idk. Remember that Echo’s whole deal with his capture&rescue in TCW s7 was that -*-he’s a superb technician and technically the same rank as Hunter.-*- Right. Anyway.)-
The John Mulaney reference at 1:25 lol. "What's new Pussycat", absolute top notch comedy skit
i feel like someone should make a smart guy/big guy duo where they're both neurodivergent and that's why they get along
like the smart guy is the type of neurodivergency that excels in school while the big guy is the type of neurodivergency that struggles in school
there are still a lot of ways to get that wrong but i think it could be very interesting if written well :D
You just remimded me of my favorite character, Claudia Donovan. She's the team's smart guy in Warehouse 13 and she's the best character ever. Thanks for reminding me how much I love her :)
I would love to see an episode on properly handling neuro-divergence. I feel like we have a profound lack of that form of representation and that it would be fascinating to explore.
Thing is that the best way is to remember to treat them the same as any other characters, but a lot of the times the audience will still perceive there to be a double standard, regardless of if one exists or not
I would love to see it too, or maybe a video on handeling writing disability in general.
I haven't watched the video yet, but I just know that Red will bring up how smart guys in teams tend to just be smart at everything. Like Tony Stark is a genius mechanic and computer scientist... who can also discover time travel out of nowhere.
What I'd like to call the "Professor Calculus effect"
Sokka's ego would absolutely run wild if he knew he was the smart guy
I love you Entrapta! Ehrm. Eh. What I mean to say is that I’m very fond of this role and the main character in the story I’m working on is definitely one. So this has been a useful video.
And great fun as always, thank you Red!
Writing a character that's smarter than yourself is a challenge. Research and patience really are the best tools available.
"What is nerdy nowadays?"
You know, I was just talking about that the other day with some friends. Ironically while playing video games. We couldn't really come up with an answer, but we did come to agree on one thing.
Calling someone a "Nerd" is really only an insult if said ironically to a non-nerdy person. Actually calling a nerd a nerd just makes you look dumb.
If anything it's the things that were once considered more "normal" hobbies, like sports, fishing or orienteering, that are seen as odd. Who knew that the people making fun of video games while watching football would come to be seen as culturally out of touch.
It does beg the question, how will changes in cultural norms effect the five man band? Will we see a change in the narrative? Will the water horse ever actually get his chance to shine?
Orienteering is fun. And no, the horse-dragon will never get a time to shine because everyone forgets that it's a dragon.
It doesn't even seem like sports is all that niche or nerdy tbh. Since we still get basketball and football players advertising fast-food restaurants. Maybe being into all of like the stats and stuff. Fishing feels like an old man kind of thing, and I have no idea what orienteering even is.
@@Glitch_Man42, orienteering I’m pretty sure Is using a compass and distance directions to locate way markers. It’s how you use a compass to know where you’re going, find a landmark and stay as close as possible. Sorry for the poor explanation
@@thefunnynamehere266 Call orienteering "hipster geocaching" and you won't be far off. :)
I wanna write a story where the smart guy seemingly knows near impossible things for seemingly no reason, the whole “dude trust me” excuse, but then it’s revealed he knew those things through a bunch of connections and false promises that he made that very quickly come to bite him in the ass HARD
Obligatory "When everything is main-stream, nothing is" line
Isn't that Syndrome's line but with different wording? Because comparing them, they pretty much have the same meaning
@@100lovenana That's the point. That line is a meme now. "When (insert) is (insert), nothing is."
I thought there was going to be a mention of Donatello is being the smart guy being improved upon because the last two shows has shown he's character has been expanding into emotional relationships. Which is a sign of branching out of the characteristic of being the introvert personality of the smart guy.
Red: "Smart guys can be evil."
Me: "I feel seen! 🥰"
Mostly likely the most overpowered smart guy, would be the warrior scholar since they also tend to become great leaders historically. I would love hear blues take on warrior scholars.
I love how a majority of the chosen footage was from the Avatar episode “Sokka’s Master”. Sokka is my favorite smart guy
When your "smart guy" in your novel is actually split amongst 3 others. The Braincell Trio. XD
I like when there's multiple smart guys: the Spock, the McCoy, the Scotty, each there for a different speciality, and it's fun seeing several smart guys bouncing ideas off eachother.
13:16 is exactly how my parents thought about me. This is greatly relatable.
Waiting for my Chinese takeaway, crocheting a pillow and OSP uploads. This is my ideal Friday. Did I mention my brain is enormous?
Also smart guy/big guy is just mythological Thor and Loki lol
"and the smart guy is.. smart"
And the floor is made of floor :D
(Edited cuz i wrote "mode" accidentally and noticed it 2 hours later)
Asking for feedback:
The main team in my story consists of these characters:
Hyperion (main character): Potential of immemse power, is not used to fighting and has horrible disciplin
Navy Swan: Leader, extremely skilled fighter, smart, great tactician, extremely antisocial and horrible at teamwork, emotionless from the outside, a bit too moral to be an efficient soldier
Cloud Knight: Team's anchor, socially intelligent, a bit too moral to be a soldier, takes too much responsibility, too emotional
Jasper: Big woman, heavy hitter, has a massive and fragile ego (still in development)
Dream Police: Technician, spy, a bit of an encyclopedia, bad at fighting, too emotional (still in heavy development)
South Star: Variety in power, a bit too immature (still in extremely heavy development)
Thoughts on the characters;
-Navy Swan and Cloud Knight's roles should be switched, or at least swap some of their traits. Someone who is antisocial and bad at teamwork by definition cannot be a good leader, so assigning that role to Swan doesn't make sense. Meanwhile, Knight being a socially intelligent leader whose sense of responsibility compels them to drag the team into dangerous situations for the sake of helping others or doing the right thing thing has a lot of great potential for plot and character drama.
-Jasper being a heavy hitter with a fragile ego doesn't sound like a good idea. Arrogant protagonists can sometimes be unlikable, but whiney protagonists are almost universally despised. A better way might be to have her be overconfident but determined. An overconfident heavy hitter might get in over their heads and get their asses kicked, and seeing them take failure really personally is a better way of just having them be overly sensitive. Conversely, watching the team powerhouse get absolutely pummeled and still win is almost guaranteed to win the audience over.
-Police being too impulsive because of their emotions might give them an interesting dynamic with Jasper. Usually the team smart guy is there to keep the big guy on a leash, but having the team smart guy egg the big guy on would be a very interesting combo that I don't see done very often.
With any ensemble cast, the key to making them fun is to figure out how they play off each other, which takes time to figure out. If you keep coming up with thought experiments on how each character or combination of characters will react to a given situation you'll come up with a solid story.
@@ManiaMac1613 Thanks for the feedback! I still do have some things to clarify though. Firstly, the team dynamic is supposed to be bad. Swan doesn't wanna be a leader to begin with, he is assigned to be one due to his intelligence and knowledge which is a horrible decision that affects him as well. Also making Cloud wouldn't make the dynamic all that healthy as well since he is way too considerate to be a military executive. About Jasper, while she has a fragile ego, she's not whiny at all. She just gets extremely aggresive when something happens that degrades her, which is kinda tied to her backstory, spite and extreme perfectionism. About Dream Police, yeah, that can be a good idea as she can be inconsiderate and unempathetic at times.
In conclusion, the team dynamic is supposed to be bad and unstable and all the characters have some internal problems that keep them away from solving the issues at hand
@rubyances I see, I see. Deliberately writing a bad team dynamic is certainly a viable writing decision, but if the characters themselves have a bad dynamic then you'll wind up shooting yourself in the foot. It's a subtle but very important distinction.
Your explanation about Jasper makes more sense now. To me, a fragile ego means you overreact to any digs at your pride, but it sounds like it's more of a Rocket Raccoon situation where she is quite literally triggered by people degrading her thanks to past trauma, which is a bit different but is a better decision. Swan also not wanting to be the leader means he has the choice of giving the responsibility up or changing his behavior and stepping out of his comfort zone. Although you'd have to do some creative heavy lifting to explain why someone in the military is given a leadership position they don't want, since that doesn't usually happen IRL. Furthermore, a Commander who is considerate is actually very desirable as a military leader; in real life, totally ruthless individuals aren't actually looked on favorably, so you'd have to do some creative heavy lifting to explain why he wouldn't be the top pick as the leader.
I'm both a military man and a long-time writer, so please feel free to pick my brain about these subjects.
@@ManiaMac1613 I still have some things to clarify as I couldn't explain everything there, although I'll take your advice into consideration as I don't really know how the military works as a 16 year old, even though it is more of a private military foundation
Firstly, I really should work on the dynamic between the characters as the team isn't certainly new, so making them at least bearable to eachother at times would be a good idea. However, it will still be affected by the pressure of the plot.
About the leadership part, I could change some things up with the roles, but not the ranks. Cloud Knight could take the role of organizing and stuff while Swan just did the strategizing. There will be some personal and external reasons for it with one of them being guilt. Furthermore, while I know that leaders who are actually human are very good for obvious reasons, Cloud Knight is just not the person to handle everything with the team like authority and responsibility.
Again, I would love to know more about how the military works since I wanna make some aspects of the story as accurate as possible to the original counterparts
@rubyances It sounds like there's a lot more to the story going on. I certainly wouldn't mind doing some more copyediting/critiques if you wish, I do those often. Lemme know if you'd like me to take a look at a sample chapter or something.
Shikamaru has to be one of my favorite smart guys. Very well-written and relatable.
5:14 except for Harry Dresden. He’s like a brawny smart guy. He’s such an incredible character and if you wanted to say he’s top ten best fantasy protagonist I wouldn’t stop you
"What even is niche and nerdy these days?"
Weebs. Which means that in a couple decades, we might get smart guys who are just gonna go off monologuing about their favourite anime
I'm gonna have to disagree with that as, to quote Reagan from Inside Job, "Anime is mainstream now"
I feel like the big guy being a closet web would be funnier. Like, he got really into working out because he watched so many battle animes.
@@monhunterz5430 ^^
I've been writing a story where the protagonist IS the smart guy. He has a very nerdy hobby (collecting antique medical devices and books) and when this is found out, he's promptly apprenticed to the town doctor and given the nickname "Doc".
When someone in town gets shot in the arm and tries to tough it out with hideously predictable results, Doc proves himself a bona fide badass by not throwing up once while treating his patient, and remaining calm and collected while his patient proves to be a colossal jerk (imagine the toughest, meanest guy in town reduced to being bedridden, and imagine just how sunny his disposition would be.)
My favorite smart guy is Jade from tales
He explains the lore of his franchise and has a solid hand in most of the world's lore.
However his personality is trolling everything that moves and the party knows it
Also love Hubert and Pascal for both being smart and incredibly...dumb.
I love them both
Ah yes, Jade Curtis, also known as the best character from Tales of the Abyss.
"What is niche and nerdy these days?" Larp. It's us, the larpers. *waves* Don't worry we're friendly.
My “smart guy” characters are a lot more like Hyato. Usually sociopathic and whether they are really a good or a bad guy seems to change from scene to scene
I actually really like the sort of characters who are incredibly smart but are sort of an anti hero and just don’t tell everyone what they know like Kokichi and nagito from the danganronpa series
@@LanieMae
I like them too. But let me give you a hypothetical. Let's take a fatalist smart character who has an actual terminal disease. They just want to do some good before they die and they don't have a lot of time to waste on idealism. Because they are dying and the world is full of corruption and evil that prevents good from being done through ideals alone.
Now that's take that character, give them time around the usual blind idealist sort until one day the blind idealist makes a huge sacrifice to remove their terminal death sentence. Now free of the shadow of death, saved by the idealism they believed to be pointless, they now begin to see the effect it has on others and its practical value in society.
Now we take this reformed-ish anti-hero, and we have them lose their family due to some large scale political and corporate corruption. What do they do? Do they lose their minds in a violent and murderous path, raging against the fact that there is no justice for the truly good? Maybe. Seems extreme but it can be done.
Or do they accept both realities? Accept that corruption and evil will stand between the good ideals that bring about actual change and hope in people. Maybe embrace one to bring about the other. Become the corporate two faced corrupt fiend just like all the other villains, literally so that he can be the last monster standing and pave the way of his own free will for a hero to come and smite him?
There are so many paths for the super smart character to take, but the thing people hardly ever truly know is that in the real world, self-emotional awareness is inversely proportionate to intelligence. The smarter you are, the more you realize how insubstantial emotions are. You can cherish them like jewelry, but you can keep it in its proper place and foce on what you are trying to accomplish.
I just now read a thing with 3 smart guys in a 6-man squad.
An all-rounder tactical heart, a studious crazy medic and a psychic techie sniper.
"A smart guy is like a multitool - they can get you out of a lot of situations, but usually not the same situations you'd fix with a baseball bat" this has HUGE Jason energy...if you have a problem, throw a molotov cocktail at it, and then you'll have a different problem!
Okay not wanting to "Autism 'Splain" here but I always worry when the following comes up. "Low Empathy" - oof, can we talk about how much this can be a misconception with neurodivergence? Okay I am Dyslexic / Dyspraxic (diagnosed) and I think I might be ADHD (undiagnosed) but I know a bunch of Autistics (because the stereotype usually draws on Autistic and ADHD traits) who are if anything HYPER empathetic. There's lots of discussion online about how it's more that neurodivergents can come across as unempathetic when it is more the case of having to try and tone down your empathy or get overwhelmed. Then there's the issue that empathy can mean different things (thanks English language for your lack of specificity!) - 'cognitive empathy' (predicting what people are going to do) is usually an issue for Autistic and sometimes more generally Neurodivergent folks but 'affective empathy' (the ability to share others’ feelings) and ‘compassionate empathy’ (the desire to help others) are different matters entirely and main Autistic people cite they have no difference or even heightened versions of those (I am quoting partly from Janine Booth's TUC guide to Autism in the Workplace here). It's also worth reading up on the "Double Empathy Problem" proposed by Dr. Damien Milton - that is the idea that Autistic people and Neurotypical people actually BOTH have issues empathising with each other but Autistic people often have less issue with the cognitive empathy side of things when relating to other Autistics, this isn't an every case thing and theirs plenty of Autistics who hate each other but they might "get" each other's way of thinking still more than they do NT people. Sorry if this is a bit ranty but I just hate the idea that Neurodivergent people (and Autistics especially) are empathy-less and don't care about people at all. Some of the most passionate defenders of the weak I know are Autistic.
Well said! 👏 One thing I've noticed with mamy real-life autistic people is a very strong sense of "justice", which can make it really tough for them interacting in our world where sadly nepotism, self-interest, exploitation & other forms of injustice tend to run rampant? (It can be hard for them to understand why a good action won't always resolve in a good outcome). This would be an interesting trait to see explored in a fiction space, as "seeking justice" seems to be a central theme for many superhero stories and fantasy tales?
Thank you. It's one of the biggest misconceptions about autism, and one that can be quite damaging. We often have trouble expressing our empathy, or making sense of it, but we feel it just fine. And can sometimes be overwhelmed by it. I'm not sure if we have more empathy than other people, but we do have trouble filtering it, so we can be overwhelmed by another person's feelings.
Though we can sometimes miss cues that we're upsetting/boring other people. That can look like low empathy, but it's really low social skills.
@@sifuller7456 I follow a bunch of autistic accounts online and have autistic family members and friends. It's a stereotype that really irks me because I know my friends, family, and the people I follow online all care about others and have strong senses of justice they just don't always express it well.
I love how leverage is pretty much oops all smart guy's
Nate: tactician
Harrison: techie
Elliot, parker and Sophie: street smart guy