And the retort "That was in English" Usually there is way more depth and even the given explanation is wrong. (Authors writing over their own knowledge levels is super obvious if the character is talking under yours in a subject) its real fun being a nerd and realizing that the "Smart Guy" you loved as a kid is a complete idiot. Famous example, in A New Hope Han brags about completing the Kessle Run in under X Parsecs, a parsec is a unit of distance not time. Specifically a parsect is the distance a star would need to be from our sun for it to apear to move by 1arcsecond (1/60 of 1/60 of a degree) in the sky after the earth has moved to the other side of the sun (6 months later), this is about 3.262 light-years (distance light travels in 1 years time). This is equivalent to saying you drove from Newyork to LA in under 50miles, makes no sense. Fortunately this particular plot hole has many solutions ranging from the film "Solo" having them take an actual shortcut to the funniest suggestion i heard where Han is actually an idiot who doesn't know what a parsec is. Just one example but basically all technobable is painfully inaccurate.
What's neat about Sokka is that he's almost a tactical version of the Avatar. While Aang is learning bending, Sokka is learning strategies from all over the world.
He isn't really even the smart guy starting out, at least not especially obviously. It really seems to kick in around Kiyoshi Island where he gets humbled by the Kiyoshi Warriors and has to swallow his pride and admit his wordview is flawed and there is still a lot he has to learn.
Sokka is the equivalent of the "crouching moron hidden badass" trope but more so "crouching moron hidden genius" and really I love that about his character.
I think that would describe Joseph Joestar as well. At least young Joseph. He seems like a childish goof until you realize that he's somehow been 6 steps ahead of you the whole time.
Helps when the setting is filled with what are essentially, in tabletop terms, charisma and wisdom (or he’ll even constitution if we look to Pathfinder kineticists) casters instead of intelligent casters like wizards. In Avatar bending is genetic (or some leyline or spirit bs; I’ve dumped lots of Kora lore memories frankly) so outside of learning techniques there’s a distinct lack of bookworms throwing super novas at the local library. Giant spirit owl notwithstanding.
It helps that magic in Avatar is much more esoteric. Bending is very tactile with the more out there, spiritual techniques like astral projection being very rare outside of the Avatar and Airbenders like Zaheer and Jinora. (And Iroh but of course HE can do what almost no one else can.) Because bending is rooted in martial arts, the more mystical aspects are more about philosophy and mindset than understanding and deciphering codified systems as wizards and such are typically portrayed in the “magic as science” conception. BUT because bending and spirits are so intangible on a fundamental level, Sokka excels at the tangible. What he can quantify, grasp, wrap his head around. So he can do many things from engineering, to poetry, to tactics, to investigation.
Probably a result of avatar’s magic system being So combat based, you CANT be a glass canon AND a bender, because in Avatar, the line between being a physical powerhouse And a magical powerhouse gets real blurry.
@@John1045 from what i can tell, the man was mostly talking in dungeons and dragons or video game terms. charisma and wisdom or constitution for very some extremely obscure or niche classes is how the power and efficiency of spell classes other than wizard are determined in dungeons &Dragons. rather than intelligence or knowledge people who use spells that aren't wizards use different ways in order to do magic that isn't studying. he is basically comparing benders in avatar to these types of spell casters since their powers are more inherent or come from a source that isn't knowledge and studying.
What about the earliest example of the smart guy: Odysseus! Unlike other Greek heroes with god-like powers from their god parents, Odysseus is completely human and uses his smarts to get out of bad situations. Getting a cyclops drunk, building his own palace and raft to get home, the Trojan horse, the list goes on.
Odysseus is an interesting figure to display how attitudes to smarts varied over time. The Greeks saw him as a hero. However, the Romans much preferred a straight up fight, which they knew they would win because they saw themselves as tougher and more manly than anyone else. Hence, under Roman dominance, Odysseus tended to be maligned as a dishonourable conniving back-stabber - not at all the sort of hero a true Roman would aspire to emulate. The role of, and space for, the smart guy, is very culture dependent. In some mythos, like those of Anansi, the smart guy is basically the hero.
@@benjaminphillips2595 well yes but I mean he was born from the archetype trickster god Hermes I believe hence the reason why he also helps out a lot. And Zeus is his dad. But if I recall him being connected to the big guy is more circumstance than plot. As in it never factors in much unlike other heros.
@@RacingSnails64 i think there was some kind of deleted scene of zuko and sokka sparring, although my memory is a bit foggy so it might just be my memory deceiving me
I choose to believe that since the Ember Island Players is basically pro-fire nation propaganda, no one wanted to admit that a little girl was talented enough as an earth bender to take down trained soldiers. So as the stories were gathered, fire nation soldiers kept lying and saying Toph was a huge, terrifying dude when in reality, she was a small, terrifying blind girl with incredible bending prowess
I've found that the trick to writing a smart guy is to remember that as the writer, I have a luxury that my smart guy character doesn't: time. If you have a smart guy, write them into a corner and then take the time to figure out how they can get themselves out of it. This can make your smart guy seem brilliant because nobody needs to know just how long it took you to come up with the solution when the smart guy figures it out in seconds. I've found this to work equally well with both good and evil smart guys. Especially when you're able to come up with a solution based around information that your smart guy canonically knows.
Id also argue use references. Yeah beating some great god villain, or bokb of time whatever prob isnt something you can look up but you can reference likeness of real life peoples situations or characters you enoyed, then look up how the creator came about making them and the plan?
Hell yes, this exactly. I felt that incredibly much, just due to the difference of "play by post" DnD versus "at the table" DnD. (Or just tabletop in general) The moment I have to improv a smart solution that my character can throw out, you can forget that I could ever make a convincing 'smart guy' move. On the other hand, if you have the time to think things through - as in play-by-post - suddenly you've the time to spend on thinking through your options, plan around them, and even consider the potential consequences and how to deal with them.
An author can also use the resources available to them (the internet) that might not be available to the smart guy, to allow the character to Just Figure It Out while the author didn't have to.
"You see, Perry the Platypus, I realised that the reason I never succeed in conquering THE ENTIRE. TRI. STATE. AREA! is because while my inators are brilliant, my plans for how to use them are, well, not good. Now, don't say anything. I know what you're thinking. 'Big shocker! Dumb Doof who always loses to me has dumb plans!' You know, Perry the Platypus, you can be very condescending sometimes. However, that won't matter anymore because I've found a solution. BEHOLD! MY CLEVER PLAN-INATOR!"
@@demonminer8093 why was this not an actual episode? The joke's practically write themselves! Maybe the episode starts with the boys deciding to make an A.I. to do the neighbors homework for them and instruct it not to let their parents know and then Candace finds out and with the ever iconic "I'm telling mom" line the robot follows it's prime directive and attempts to eliminate Candace before she can snitch demonstrating the combat functions the boys built in because they were bored. It could be a terminator homage and everything!
@@latorasmith Good idea except P and F regularly go to extreme lengths to help kids WITH school and learning things (The Big Brain, give me a grade). The AI would probably be a tutor, but it's for Buford and he wants to keep it secret and that's why it goes haywire.
Why do I have a feeling like the clever plan-inator would be thrown off the tower, or at least gets launched far away from it, crash into the ai, effectively stopping it and looks like everything is broken and unable to be used. It all gets thrown in the trash, and then who knows how many episodes later, we find out that "oh, the big tri state area take over machine isn't the doof's but actually the fusion of the plan-inator and the ai" (Why do I also feel like I just explained the plot of one of the Phineas and Ferb movies-)
One of my favorite things about Sokka is that he's both the tactical strategist and also the big goofball. At a glance, you'd think he's just the clumsy comic relief guy, but he's actually very intuitive and observant.
and determined. he specifically isn't gifted. he works hard at bettering himself every chance he gets and always tries to be practical and responsible in spite of the protests of his much younger and less mature companions..
One of my favourite Smart Guy traits to see is practicality. Often characters (and audiences) in supernatural stories can forget that there exist normie solutions to problems, so having a character (often one with no powers) that can, for example, answer "how can we stop this guy" in an urban fantasy setting with "hit him with a bus" can actually be a clever and fun show of smarts.
@@swingloveEKL "OH NO! this villain who is just a normal guy but has some really good plan or magic artifact or whatever is about to win! what ever could we do! practical smart guy: hey! why don't we use a GUN.
In Supernatural, there was a Bobby-centric episode wherein he doesn't have the culturally relevant anti evil stuff about, but then accidentally* yeets the monster into a Woodchipper. It was a very "Oh. That works" moment
Chewie is the smart guy in the Chewie/Han Smart Guy/Big Guy duo. Despite being physically larger and more imposing, Chewie is usually depicted as the one who fixes the ship, is the better pilot, and is the more insightful of the two despite his inability to speak common. Han is the guy you point in a general direction and tell him to shoot things.
Chewie also fills the stereotype of playing Space Chess, the origin of the "Let the Wookie win" quote. This, of course, also implies he's not great at Space Chess.
….no? How do you justify this? Did you forget that Han corrects Chewie’s work? They’re about equal in technical skill. On top of that, how is Chewie more “insightful?” What sort of fanfic have you written about these characters in your own head? Chewie isn’t the Smart Guy. He’s the CoPilot. The slightly less, but better in other ways, to Han’s Pilot. He is technically knowledgeable, but in the same way Han is.
Red: "...hide behind the tank and chuck fireballs." Me: "Hide behind the tank, a large rock, a solid stone column, a building, under a large table, across a river, across the nation, or from another continent entirely. Also, never underestimate the importance of a solid, oak table. A wizard worth their salt will be able to scan any bar and know INSTANTLY what's the best table to hide under in the place. Oh, and hay carts make lousy hiding spots. You'd think all that hay would be a great place to hide and chuck fireballs, but only a madman would hide in a place of very flammable stuff on top of a mobile funeral pyre."
@@mirjanbouma Oh nono, the cauldrons tend to explode, so everyone, even the fat ones, *especially* the fat ones, is Fast. If you're a slow wizard, you die. It's natural selection.
When we play d&d, I’m personally a “big guy” main, but shout out to all the “smart guy” mains. For without you, we are stupid, and without us, you are dead.
Those can totally intersect sometimes. I've played many a Barbarian who ends up carrying a bunch of random magic items and random mundane items both because A) he's a Barbarian, he can carry a lot of stuff; B) he doesn't have magic powers to solve problems with, so if we need to change our elevation, he has a ladder for that. It results in a Barbarian who spends a lot of time trying to manage the whole party's resources and McGuyver solutions to problems that can't be solved by Axe.
@@arcadeassassin7176 if they ever make an Avatar offshoot that takes place in a setting that looks/feels/acts like Venice, this channel will just be unable to help themselves.
Hot Take: Chewbacca is the Smart Guy and Han is the bruiser that gets pointed at things. Chewbacca fixes the ship and does the technical stuff, Han shoots consoles and leads WW2 style commando assaults on Endor...
That "smart guy being an antisocial jerk" trope is probably my biggest reason why Senku from Dr. Stone is one of my favorite smart characters of all time. It's very subversive, I think truly intelligent people would know to be kind to others.
I really like how Senku is one billion percent a paragon, but he has totally villainous mannerisms. That, and he's a master of finding a solution to difficult situations that's both the most practical and the most ethical. Usually smart guys are the ones who present the leader with a choice between two terrible options. Senku is several times presented with choices like that, but he uses his smarts to find another, better option.
@@zoro115-s6b Senku taps into my favorite trope of all time: Taking the Third Option. When done with a dumb or just outwardly not-so-intelligent character it can have a nasty habit of seeming like an ass-pull if not set up properly. But when done with a convincingly well-done, intelligent character it can be the most hype thing in existence. It channels the perfect amount of the Diogenes spirit of “fuck you” to the villain, plot, and world at large. It’s also hilarious when my Wizard (or the party Bard/other player duo) gets one over on the DM. Though funny enough my current character that does this is my conspiracy theory nut Warlock Sorcerer.
I just like that senku is self-confident. He understands his limits and works around them and that's it. He's also not supremely good at all things brainy since the mentalist guy whose name I forget rn has got senku brocking (explaining things in long-winded ways that are clearly addressed to a less-informed audience, similar to what brock from the pokemon anime does) at least a couple of times. Chrome and him also brock for senku several times, showing how each has a different intellectual strength. Because intellect isn't about a singular INT stat making you smarter or not. People have strong suits and weak suits, both in the knowledge aspect of the deal and the application of knowledge.
I think your comment touches on an important point of people's perception of what intelligence is and looks like. I love your conception of it includes understanding the importance of being kind to others.
This reminds me of Azimuth from Ben 10, it is said that every single incarnation of him across the Multiverse is a good guy because "he is too smart to be evil"
Making the protagonist the smart guy is unironically hilarious for inner monologues. "How the heck do i get outta this one-" "I AM A GODDAMN GENIUS!" "Nevermind I'm an idiot." "Damn it everyone is looking at me again. Guess i gotta start making a plan." "This is it, I'm gonna die with these idiots." "Human interactions are like... what quantum physics is to you." "Uh confusing?" "Borderline impossible to understand."
I love when the smart guy is also the only person who has common sense and is constantly frustrated by everyone being idiots and looking at them for help. A smart guy that lacks common sense is great too. Maybe they’re an expert engineer and can build high-tech machines and gadgets but otherwise seem dumb
Something I've found difficult yet interesting about writing smart characters is how to make it _plausible._ How do they know that one necessary fact, how do they plan so far in advance, how do they notice that one crucial piece of evidence, etc. It's way too easy to just have them _deus ex machina_ the whole story, making them _too_ smart and destroy the tension. It's challenging, but fun in its own way.
i think the trick here is to make the planning seem consistent to the character...for example....Jack Sparrow. Captain Jack is a street smart character, he is cunning and the way you see it is in his consistent methods of out doing his opponents in various outlandish ways. He swipes a coin to turn himself undead to avoid being killed, he and Will take a boat and walk under water to sneak aboard a ship, among various others tactics. He plays the fool but is always shown to be a step ahead so it feels consistent...in the writing.
I do it like D&D. Figure out the character's ability to understand/memorize information and draw logical conclusions based on the information they do have. Then roll a die to see if the character happened to randomly Google "how nuclear fission works" at 2am sometime in the last decade for literally any reason, ranging from "it's my job/college minor" to online nerd arguments about IM's arc reactor for funsies to "I drank too much mountain dew before bed and am bored".
Yeah a prime example of how not to do a smart guy is Izzy from Digimon. He simply knows way too much and basically the one who figures everything out. The show is mostly him info dumping with little to no explanation of how he knows what he knows.
Might be controversial, but the recent "Prey" movie did this well at the end to me. Some spoiling maybe below, but I tried to avoid it: The plan at the end made me legitimately go "no way I forgot about that piece", like I was able to predict some of it, but I was genuinely impressed at a plan going right in an action sequence.
@@Handles_Are_Bad.Phuk-them-off that's more telling than showing, imo. At least in literary terms. It's basically the creator going "[CHARACTER] is currently being smart and doing smart things" without ever really telling us what the smart things are. A character who is always tinkering in the background and makes cool gadgets but never makes smart decisions, solves problems or learns from their mistakes doesn't feel smart, they feel like an idiot with a wrench.
Yeah I'm finding that out with the current story im working on as my main character is supposed to be extremely smart. However I've found that instead of trying to find ways to make him smart it's easier to go the whole "alien" route,where his way of thinking and proccessing of information is so out of the ordinary he comes off as inhuman
@@Neutral_Tired Yep, that borders into the so called "informed ability". When a character is said to have a certain trait, but the only sign the reader/watcher has of it is... that everyone keeps repeating it despise the fact that said trait never actually plays a role in the story.
The sniper is one of the subcategories the smart guy can be part of, since you can give them a lot of power and still make them conditional, one of the few times when, if the situation calls for it and he is not just there for cover fire, the whole trope gets switched, with everyone becoming the support and trying to give the sniper a good opportunity.
I immediately thought of the Sniper in Team Fortress 2, I couldn't help it. But, ironically, the smart characters in TF2 would actually be the Engineer and the Medic
@@100lovenana Ok but arguably, Sniper is the most sane of the group. He does a job and does it well. Sure he throws jars of piss but hey, I didn’t say he’s completely sane, just the most sane
@@100lovenana i thought you were talking about competitive tf2 for a sec, since the sniper is the most important class in highlander. the entire teams job is to support him, due to how effective a good sniper is
It would be interesting to split up the ways of being smart between the party: The Leader is observant and intelligent, The Wizard/Techie is books-smart, The Heart is good with psychology, And the Muscle sticks to common sense when everyone else misses the most obvious solution
Simon is the Brains of the Group in Alvin & The Chipmunks,Donatello is the Brains in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Kowalski is the Brains of the Group in Penguins Of Madagascar.
I think this was the way TMNT was made actually. (I only watch the 2012 reboot and Rise, with a bit of the 2003 on the side but still) Leo is the leader, the one behind every plan, and also the one who will have to devise a plan during a mission if something unexpected happen. Donnie, the smart guy, and he is as you say, books-smart. He is the one that usually finds the solution to the more complicated life or death problem. Especially the one that involves another alien's technology. Mikey, the heart of the team or as I usually call him the emotional core of the team. He might not be as smart as Donnie or Leo to devise a plan to take the enemies' down. Hell, he might be the one that was in trouble in the first place. But, he is the one that usually keep the group together in tough situations, boosting the team's morale and sometimes even proves to be smarter and capable of solving a problem if he just try hard enough. And if all else fails, we have Raph to kick some sense into the team. Even though all of his methods seem like pure brute force, most of the times, he's the one with the sense in the team. He will be the one to say how bad and idiotic it is to trust someone from the foot, or to let a bad guy go just because we are "not the same as them".
@@loveyphoenix494 the TMNT Character and their Roles they were giver are perfect.Leonardo is the Leader,Donatello is the Brains,Raphael is the Muscle and Michelangelo the Heart.
I read a book where the smart guy was really fucking stupid, but he just had like, an intuitive knowledge of technology through his abilities We love Himbo Smart Guy
I mean if you’re into 40k that’s technically the Ork specialists, like their equivalent of engineers and doctors. They’re not smart by and large but they intuitively know how to do work in their specialization.
My favorite version is the "Rube Goldberg hero," the one that is somewhat strong, but not strong enough to just faceroll the villains they fight, so instead they need to set up a complex series of conditions in which their relatively weaker powers are plenty to overcome the stronger foe. This is how Batman is used in his best JLA adventures. You need just enough power to not die while setting up the trap and to be able to activate the trap when the time comes, but the real strength is in setting up the unwinnable scenario for the opponent.
It’s funny cuz I make the argument that Superman isn’t the best JL member. It’s Batman… with prep time. I think the Arkham games does it’s best to showcase it because he takes down people so much stronger than him or the ones that have strong tech. It’s up to the player to figure it out. Brute force or superpowers help, but when you are going against a man that learns weaknesses to make it an even fight, giving him prep time is the most dangerous thing.
Abraham Van Helsing is the smart guy of the novel Dracula, he doesn't do any actual fighting, but does have knowledge of vampires and their weaknesses which proves to be useful on multiple occasions.
Add Mina to that group though. That bit where she figures out Dracula's location on pure reasoning and memory is so cool in my opinion. Also she casually memorized all the train hours between London and Wallachia which might be not as impressive as it would be in modern times, but still. I feel she's more the creative, idea smart person while Van Helsing is the books, knowledge smart person.
Also van Helsing doesn't actually know things right away, and even when he does exposit he's always guessing to some degree or another. Well, almost always
@@fullmoontales1749 That's probably also because there isn't that much known about vampires and Van Helsing knows all that is actually recorded about them.
I love the Lancer's face when the Smart Guy whips out the tazer xD Just like, "Oh god, who let Smart Guy near the weapons locker again? We are in DangerTM"
I love when shows that get on in their years stop playing that for laughs and show the characters' skillsets actually broadening. The Smart Guy is sick of getting Princess Peach'd and takes a self defense class; the muscle studies hard to earn their GED; the lancer decides that the time has come for them to leave the comfort of the familiar and go lead their own band.
She ends up on youtube’s front page every time she uploads and her duo-team channel has over a million subscribers. I think she knows she’s been noticed.
I love how on the graph, literally no one can drive except the Lancer. One can only imagine the terrified screaming of the group as the Lancer character drives them off a cliff with a smirk.
My pet peeve with smart guy characters is when writers give them some kind of "smart" trivia knowledge or "smart" hobby to show off how smart they are themselves, but if you have anything beyond surface levele knowledge of the field, you realize they don't know shit. As if their whole research was reading a single badly written article about it.
A great example of this being done well is the RDJ Sherlock Holmes movie. There's a great video on the chess game that he plays with Moriarty and why it's so clever. Look up "Lord Ravenscraft Sherlock Holmes Chess". It's really interesting.
@@davidholmes3728 I still remember Howard going 'Engineers are smart too, here i'll prove it and i'll ask you some questions' The 'hardest' question according to Howard was 'How does the diameter of a pipe affect the flow rate of liquid' like.... dude bigger pipe, means more liquid can flow through it at a time, smaller diameter means less. I know that and I failed most science based classes.
It might as well be. Most writers don't actually have any affinity for the sciences. They just need to "prove" the smart guy is smart. Futurama is exception, not the rule.
There's one book I read as a kid where the villain did this, and I'm still not sure whether the author did it by accident or on purpose. After taking out the strongest of the hero team, the villain tells the new leader "I've captured your king, and you've promoted a pawn to replace him." Which isn't how chess works - you can't actually do either of those things. But the thing is that the villain clearly thinks he's some kind of mastermind, but all he really has going for him is the fact that he knows how to steal the powers of others, and his plan amounts to "get the hero alone somehow and do that," repeated for each hero in the group. So it would be perfectly in character for him to misuse the chess metaphor, rather than for it to be a mistake by the author.
One of my favorite examples of The Smart One is Erin Ruunaser, the Elemental Magus from a webcomic called Aurora, because his personality is mostly devoid of shows of intelligence (even his arrogance is mostly about his status), but he's consistently shown to have a plan and to figure out things quickly, and his intelligence informs a lot about this character (he really doesn't like when he's wrong, but he won't shy away from searching the truth even if he's skeptic from it). In addition, despite being consistently shown as the most learned and logical, he's not always the one with the best grasp on the situation, as Falst, the Big Guy of the team, is more street-smart, and Kendal and Alinua, the Leader and the Lancer who both sub in for the Heart, have emotional intelligence and spiritual knowledge covered. Man, if only I knew the author, I would love to congratulate them on their character work
Yes, everybody in Aurora manages to juggle the five-man tropes in engaging ways and every time a new character is added you wonder how the group survived without them before. The author truly deserves a publishing deal, whoever they may be.
Reminds me of the last time I played DnD, where everyone wanted to be the healer. Or rather, everyone had a healing spell except for one guy who thought he had a healing spell. Yeah, he found out that Mend was for mending fabric, and not wounds.
@@cooltrainervaultboy-39 ok my mind instantly whent to uberchaining in tf2 : in wich two medics can basically take out everything they want if pepole aren't quick or smart enough to run away , wich is the only situation in wich a team of just healers can work out
@@osirisatot19 He's definitely the smartest, but because he has to rely on his brainpower all the time he gets exhausted and just shuts it off to do impulsive shit. After all the sleuthing at the library, he impulsively drinks cactus juice because his brain wants to go to sleep. I know a lot of really intelligent, hard-working people that are massive dumbasses outside of work because by that point in the evening their brains have given up. Also broing around with Aang turns Sokka into an idiot, and if you've ever been in a frat you know that they are 50 IQ points dumber in a group than they are individually
This makes me appreciate Azula from atla even more. She the equivalent of if Sokka had bending and wasn't restricted by morals. She is smart and powerful, making her extremely dangerous. And while she does have some hubris, she never gives into it. Her only weakness is that her missing morals also make her a lot of enemies. So while she is planning five steps ahead, she eventually has to consider so many enemies that there is no way for her to plan and scheme her way out. Meanwhile Sokka gets more and more allies, giving him more ways to plan ahead.
I may be miss remembering as I haven't watched ALTA in a while, but Azula was extremely hubris and went overboard with the "I'm better than you" shtick on serval different occasions.
Azula was a tactician but unlike Sokka who formed allies due to friendship and mutual respect, she formed hers through fear and subjugation. When it comes down to it, people fight passionately for those they love and respect rather than fear.
I'm not so sure. One of Sokka's greatest features is that he learns from his mistakes and from the people around him, Azula never does that. Azula honestly believes she's better than everyone else so why would she ever try to learn from them? If Azula were really a parallel of Sokka, I think she'd have been the one to figure out lightning redirection by studying scrolls about water benders.
I think she just didn’t have that much depth as a character for the majority of season 2 and only got an arc that could’ve been good but was really rushed towards the end of season 3. To me azula was always a persistent threat. She was incredibly powerful, but not powerful enough for things to feel super grim when she’s against the group, and she doesn’t go down easily so it never feels like she will be taken care of, and they only win the group can get is not losing to her, because she will come back
And the super hacker is a nerd who unironically loves star trek, video games and world of warcraft, and somehow isn't cringe. He still has personality beyond those things, and perfect chemistry with the rest of the cast.
@@benjaminc924 Let's be honest, almost all of them were pretty great characters, the only one we don't really see much of their actual character, was Sophie. We were never really conclusively and consistently given her real identity, or what she was like outside of running cons or _trying_ to act.
@@willparry530 I feel like, especially with her development in season 2, we did get a lot of characterisation from her? i agree that we see her acting a lot, so she doesn't get to be herself as much as the other characters on the job, but in all the Inbetween moments and even while conning we do get more characterisation than expected. personally, i feel like the character with the least development is hardison, although both Sophie abd Hardison get a lot of screentime/characterisation via their romance plots, and so don't stand as much on their own
@@Plotbunnyhunter Ehhh, her screen time even in season 2 is debatable. In the end we still don't even know her real name. At least with Elliot we know it's probably his real name, and that he has an estranged father, though we may not know why they are estranged.
@@willparry530 for 'Sophie' there was an in-universe excuse. As everyone else in the main group, she is an extreme example of her role/expertise. (Possibly even slightly more so, as 'pretend you're someone else' is something the entire team does to some extent) The 'has difficulty walking past people without picking their pocket'-parker equivalent would be 'even the personality familiar to closest friends is a lie' (see white collar's mozzie, or another Gina Bellman character: coupling's 'D'you know, I could get away with anything when I was my crazy twin Jane'-Jane) While it 'makes sense', I agree it makes her the least-developed of the main cast. (There are some interesting implications, but when you're 'the liar', pulling off a 'deep dive' is 'a Joker origin story'-levels of difficult)
I just realised Raven and Cyborg share the smart guy role for two different reasons: he's the tech, she's the mage. Which makes me think: what if two characters shared the "smart guy" role but together only... like you have the Big Guy and the Heart, but when together they become the Smart Guy of the band. Same if it's the Lancer and Leader; and when you think about it, it can be a "basic story" in itself: Leader and Lancer must put aside their differences and work together as "The Smart Guy" of the group.
I mean, that could make sense, the Big Guy has lots of thoughts, but can't exactly sort through them for the good ideas alone. That's where the Heart comes in, offering advice, but also recognizing that a lot of their plans are way better than what they could come up with Neither is the smart guy alone, but together, they could probably figure out the plot in idle chatter.
its how its also debatable about who is really big guy as well...as raven is by all means the strongest...but that role is also shared with star fire and cyborg at various times. Beast boy also shares the role of heart with Starfire and Robin can also be the weak and unskilled smart guy leader and tactician. It like red said they aren't solely define by one role but actually fill several roles.
Street smart: Beast boy Techie : Cyborg The mage: Raven Tactician: Robin The whole team are pretty smart in their individual area of expertise. I dont think there was a designated smart guy in the team.
I think this most often happens when either: The first villain has already made a frienemy relationship with the heros, usually out of having an actual conversation/forced to help eachother (say prison break or survial situation). Or villain 1 want to rule the world but villain 2 want to destroy it. Motives matter, a mafia boss will usually do something like pay back a debt or say "I'm defending my home, get over it" and the Hero usually has already been having a crisis about how they can't beat Villain 2 on their own. Also bonus points when the 2 villains and the Hero are all mutual foils. Like Batman, Poison Ivy, and Joker. Batman is a hero balancing right with legal, Ivy is an exo terrorist (good motives bad actions), and Joker is just walking chaos and obsession. (I know better examples exist but this is an easy one)
Ahhh, the “Vader chucking Emperor” effect. Nothing more badass. Hell, whenever Doom joins up with the avengers cause the universe is on the line is always a treat. Can’t happen with the same villain too often though, or else it’s like they’re just faking being a bad guy or they’re just morally inconsistent. Or, and this is one of my favs: a delicious shade of grey, where they have strict moral codes that motivate them in positive ways every now and again.
Alien invasions are often good for that. In The Batman cartoon, Gordon pragmatically backs up the villains who escaped Arkham who were already in the middle of fighting the alien invaders. Joker mostly did it because only HE gets to terrorize Gotham. In the series finale of Justice League Unlimited, the "not spaced for mutiny" members of the Legion of Doom teamed up with the JL against Darkseid's full frontal invasion. In Reboot, the bad guys help the protags fend off an invasion of viruses from the net. At least before betraying the protags when it seems like the invasion is under control. Or when the lawful neutral Nova Corp fights alongside the chaotic good(?) Ravagers to fight off the lawful evil Ronin.
"What is niche and nerdy these days?" Exactly. It's so niche that no one knows what it is. The niche have entered a secret society that will go mainstream in about 30-40 years.
I think it’d be cool to see the rest of the five-man-band archetype on this show. I mean, we already have The Loner for the Lancer, we just need the other three!
Not me with the "Random Trivia Facts" Guy "Oh yeah this monument is magic! It was built by Agora, a sculptor who disappeared mysteriously a hundred years ago, alongside a prince!" "Wait it's magic?" "Yep!" "Could you maybe elaborate on that?" "I would, but I have no idea what it actually does, I just skimmed a fact book when I was twelve."
if I ever went to some magical adventure land, this would be me. I know the bare minimum required to be considered as smart, but anything beyond that is a mystery to me
Don't do this to me. I was that kid who just read random Wikipedia articles when board. I know about a ton of things with most of them having the depth of a puddle.
@@jonathantadlock-stein2023 That's me in real life. I have no interest in knowing the details of things but I do want to know how shit functions. So what I know about science is all rather surface level. Chemistry, space, physics, evolution, etc. But yea, been called smart all my life because of that even though it has little to do with intelligence. My parents made the usual mistake of calling me smart way too much that as a kid I even believed it. I'm not dumb but no, I'm not a smart kid, lol.
I was hoping you'd bring up Entrapta, especially when discussing the frequent neurodivergence of the smart guy. She is very coded that way, from her hyperfixation on robots/tech, to her lack of social graces, etc. I think she's really well-written and the few characters who tend to dismiss her or get annoyed with her grow to appreciate her and how she expresses herself (I'm thinking of Scorpia's talk with Mermista about how to treat Entrapta better).
@@artist0154 couldn't remember if she'd confirmed it or not, but that's even better! I love her too, she and Mermista are tied for my favorite princess
I personally found her one of the weaker characters, given how she easily moved over to the side of people that she knew full well conquered and killed most of the planet just so she could tinker with tech, some of it weapons that would then be set upon innocent people. I found it glaring in that regard, as if neurodivergent people have no moral compass.
@@martine5604 Entrapta was, in part, written by an autistic person. As an autistic person myself, I really appreciated that the sent her down that road and brought her back from it having learned that she needs to open up her tunnel vision and look at the bigger picture. I know I can turn into a real jerk when I'm too focused on my special interests. I totally drop my personal life and hurt my relationships if I don't watch myself.
One of the reasons Sokka shines so much is because of the care they put into the world of Avatar. It's so easy in stories with worlds that involve different groups with inherent powers (Benders/Non-Benders, Mutants/Non Mutants, Quirks/Quirkless etc) to just give up on trying to balance it and simply have the more powerful group be the bad guy, the force to overcome, or just hands down better. The stories and conflicts never get resolved or devolve into one of the powerful groups fighting their own on behalf of the puny mortals. Avatar was the first real show I had sesen that balanced this. Benders had an edge, but they aren't gods and can make the same mistakes. It's not the be-all-end-all of power, it's simply something that's added to that character's toolkit. Sokka is a tactical genius and it shows.
One good tip that I've found for writing small characters is to show more of their cleverness and less of their actual strategies. A good ratio is about 5:1. Basically you just need to only show a few clever moments where they outwit their opponents, and build up to one big moment of utter brilliance. This makes your audience think that their tiny plans are just as intricate as that one big moment. Be warned that the big moment will actually need to be actually brilliant, for intended results.
You mean PEOPLE like more clever than inteligent characters because usually being clever dosnt require much than ideas and observation in comparison with just read a complex math equation that 70% of the public would be unable to underestand at all? Wow, that sounded way more condecending than i intended. Which was nothig at all.
"Even D&D's gone mainstream. Wait, what _is_ niche and nerdy these days?" Ah yes, the brilliant plan to destigmatize ourselves has gone according to schedule. Bring out the party favors; let's celebrate nerds no longer being defaulted to outsiders!
What's nerdy is to lament how our favorite stories and hobbies have been watered down for the unwashed masses and wishing we could go back to the time when we were outcasts whose hobbies no one would touch with a ten-foot pole. At least back then, we hadn't lived long enough to see our beloved classics go down in flames. What's nerdy is walking away from 40K and desperately seeking shelter in the Battletech fandom as the barbaric money-grabbing cultural vandals bite and claw at the gates behind us. Now THAT'S nerdy.
@@jaffarebellion292 The masses are starting to learn. They're getting tired of messaging being shoved down their throats, and want to see the originals, not the twisted forms.
@@kennyholmes5196 I really am glad things are turning around, but when almost all the works I loved have already been bastardized and perverted, I can't help but wonder what will be left when all this is over. Ah well, there's always tabletop gaming. No matter how woke it gets, a group can always just ignore it and homebrew stuff to their hearts' content.
@@jaffarebellion292 Well, the Tolkien Fandom certainly seems like it'll be safe due purely to how dedicated their fanbase is. Marvel and DC both have Multiverses and Multiversal Resets every now and again to sweep away any unfortunate choices. Star Wars can be rescued using the World Between Worlds and the same tactic used to peeve all of the EU fans in declaring the bad stuff noncanon like how Disney declared the EU as Legends. Anime fans almost always disregard Live Action Adaptations as trash unless said adaptations are genuinely good and faithful to the source material. Dr. Who has the oh-so-common retcons on their side thanks to malleable time and being all about jaunting hither and thither in time and space. Star Trek is screwed, though, even with parallel timelines; what they've done in Picard has ruined a major character of a key part of the series in their eyes.
"Genius People are Jerks so if ill make this character a Jerk everyone will think hes smart, but to keep him likable without actually coming up with flaws ill just give him some martyr moments"
I can only imagine how much time it takes to write Jojos Bizarre Adventure cause literally every character in that manga/anima is unbelievably clever and it’s just a back and forth of characters pushing each other into corners and somehow getting out of them until the protagonist wins (usually)
It's superficial intelligence; basic Aha! Gotcha! No real out maneuvering or chess type matches. It's like checkers with chess pieces, they look smart.
@@ascended8174 SPOILERS AHEAD YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED So what I think is a good example of this is in the latter half of Jojo Golden Wind, where everyone switched bodies. At a certain point, they identified Bucciarati's body as Diavolo and confirmed that the body was unconscious, and Chariot Requiem was in front of them with the arrow. The smart move to make there would've been to kill "Diavolo" on the spot because it would've ruled out the dual personality thing from the start, but that's not how it played out. I may be wrong though
@@rouge-ish324 I'm having a hard time looking for this particular scene since the SCR part is a little long, but from what you're pointing out here, I wouldn't say it's an ass-pull moment like the guy above is talking about. I think the moments he means are more of times where they start pulling stuff out of nowhere with absolutely no foreshadowing to beat the opponent Though I will counter with a good example of characters actually using logic and tactics; Jotaro vs Anubis. Jotaro knows Anubis is inside the sword itself and possessing Polnareff, Jotaro can clearly see that Anubis' sword is broken, and Jotaro knows that Silver Chariot can match if not outspeed him without his armour. He tries to prevent SC from removing his armour by attacking aggressively, however he fails and after some distractions by Anubis using a bush and water fountain he manages to shed his armour and stab Anubis' sword into Jotaro's abdomen But because Jotaro knows that Anubis' sword can be broken, while it's stabbed into him where Anubis can't move, he destroys it and wins the fight Underappreciated fight IMO. Not as much blatant explaining and it makes sense how Jotaro reacts
Well, Cyborg is the "techie" smart guy of the group. While Raven is the "mage" smart guy. Plus I think Robin fits in with the "Street-smart" guy pretty well while mainly being the "leader" type. As mentioned, a lot of times the team menbers are a bit of a mix of many types to give them more dimensions, so to speak.
I kinda wish you mentioned the emotional gut punch that can happen when a tactician smart guy, who has come up with excellent plans for as long as he/she has been in the party, is stuck in a bad situation with the rest of the cast (maybe they got ambushed by a large group of evil minions) and is completely unable to come up with a plan.
Another check off the list on avatar. This happens in the finale Sokka and toph are both hanging off an airship with fire nation soldiers just above them. Sokka being the tactician and the comic relief, is in checkmate and is unable to come up with anything to save them. He immediately accepts that it's the end for the both of them
Or they come up with a plan but it fails because the villains pull out unknown powers. Goes from "I got this guys" to this is "impossibly hopeless" in and instant. And because the smart tactician is the one saying it the hopeless, the statement carries a lot of weight. Log horizon has a great example of this when they go into a boss fight with proven method learning and taking them down, just to get wiped out by 3 bosses instead of 1.
@@wilfweNightsky There's also the moment during the Day Of Black Sun when the team realizes the invasion plan was compromised and they've been led into a trap.
Excellent neurodivergent smart guy: Entrapta in She Ra (2018). She's so focused on first ones tech and building robots, so focused on what she CAN do that she doesn't stop to think about if she should, and when she realizes what she's done she tries to fix it by using what she knows: tech. She even tells the other princesses that she KNOWS she messed up, but she's not good at talking to people so she tried to help them the only way she knows how. That speech hit hard, as an autistic person. It was nice to see that side of things actually brought up and confronted.
The second she said "The Mastermind" my mind inmediately went to leverage, and then the video used it as an example. This thing is incredibly well structured holy shit.
Not always, but oh my word, you have to watch an episode like three or four times, or sit down and diagram it, before you see the plot holes. That's _still_ incredible craftsmanship, some plots will have holes if you put them on a TV show, no matter what, to hide them that well is exemplary
great opportunity for some plottwists and other shenanigans by having all exposition delivered by the distinctly not smart guys, or the smart guy just being wrong
@@MerkhVision no it isn't, but it can very easily devolve into the smart guy's only personality trait being the exposition dumper, which is a bad thing it's best if every character - smart guy included - is a character, not a tool
There are ways you can make the smart guy the source of exposition and lore, but it has to be appropriate for the situation and scene they’re in. I suppose one example where exposition dumps could be logical is if the smart guy memorizes books and scripts, so when they go into a ramble of exposition then he can chalk it up to simply recalling a memorized paragraph from a book. But that would be very specific to a character who has a photographic memory, and doesn’t apply to all smart guy characters. Again, it’s key to make it logically consistent to the character and setting to provide the reader with extra details or lore, such as them explaining the powers/weaknesses of a foe when fighting said foe to an unfamiliar/inexperienced character.
You know, one of the things I always noticed about Sokka in Avatar is sometimes people get really upset when you suggest that he is the smart guy. People are like "no he's the comedic relief", "he's the butt of the joke", "he's not smart he's funny". And I'm over here like can he not be both? Can one not be smart and funny?
I wonder if it's because his smarts seem to be kinda hands-on ones, and don't seem to include much comprehension of appropriate behavior...? I'd compare him to Pippin in LOTR movies: he isn't totally stupid but he's inexperienced, seems to do a lot of stuff we'd describe as "dumb" or "inappropriate to context" (often just cos of being bored or curious), has some attitudes that reeeeally need adjusting (think Sokka vs anyone female) and lacks foresight. These aren't usually traits we'd associate with a wise person, so he can come across as a dumb comic relief character despite having some good applied-problem-solving capabilities?
That's weird. I've never seen people complain that he isn't the smart guy. I thought most of the fans already accepted that he is the brains in the team
I mean the thing about avatar just in general is that people seem to be strongly married to whatever opinion they have about the shows, probably because most watched them as children or teens so have a lot of nostalgia for it.
this has inspired me to write about a group of heroes who are incapable of algebra or even long division because they all kept skipping school to keep training and it keeps being a problem until they 'recruit' a totally normal college student to solve the math problems
Shall we talk about Leverage? In Leverage, EVERY character is EVERY member of the 5 Man Band in different episodes, and they’re often more than one member in a single episode. Case Study: Eliot Spencer. On the surface, Eliot is the Big Guy. His job description is literally: Hitter. However. He’s also incredibly smart when it comes to combat and combat related activities. “It’s a very distinctive ___________.” He’s also the Lancer, occasionally the Leader when the stakes are life and death, and the Heart in a group of people with wildly varying degrees of skill in interpersonal interactions. Case Study: Nate Ford. He’s the Leader. Obviously. But he’s occasionally the Lancer when an episode is centred around another character, he’s the Smart guy, given his role as Mastermind, he’s the Heart when necessary or when kids are the victims of their marks, and he’s occasionally the Big Guy when Eliot’s not around. See also: Alec Hardison, Sophie Devereaux, and Parker. They all have their areas of expertise, and they all get to use their expertise in each episode. But they also grow and change and develop over the course of the series. Without going into Spoiler territory, Hardison’s relationships with Parker and Eliot are the backbone of the show. And I adore Parker’s relationship with Nate. It’s almost as if these fictional characters were written to reflect the multi-dimensional nature of human beings. No one is just One Thing.
Was going to write a similar comment, but I saw yours, which is way more well said that what I would have put. Best example of Nate being the smart guy has to be when he made a guy bleed with psychology. (The Order 23 Job)
This is also what makes the Leverage revival work -- the returning characters (and even the one doing part-time work) have clearly kept building and learning. They haven't been static since we last saw them, and their new selves (selves that are Still Changing, bless the writers!) are a fascinating mix of old and new.
Sophie is another interesting case study, in that she follows what's become a more common trend of combining the Lancer and the Heart into one character. She's very definitely the Lancer, both in the sense of being the de facto second-in-command and being the one who can challenge or call out Nate far more than anyone else. At the same time, she clearly fills the Heart role. In addition to being the love interest for Nate (the Leader), she is clearly the emotional center of the team. Not only do we see her doing things like trying to help Parker with her social skills and face up to her feelings for Hardison, we clearly see the impact on the rest of the team when she's not there for most of season 2 - the entire team, particularly Nate, spin off the rails emotionally and get themselves into serious trouble.
"Every character has a space of situations they're good at handling, and a space of situations they're bad at handling." I was about to make a joke about Mary Sues, but I just realized, it even applies to them -- they're good at handling praise or being the only reason the plot resolves, and bad at generating interesting plots or character interactions.
Yea, a lot of sues are actually, ironically, terrible at any form of problem solving, because all problems they face end up getting solved through deus ex machina. I could actually see it being an interesting premise that a character suddenly loses the special plot protection. Like, say, some supernatural entity blesses the protagonist with Good fortune until they turn twenty, prior to which everything just sort of... Worked out for them, but now they have to learn to navigate actual problems that they need to solve.
@@zoro115-s6b Larry Niven's Ringworld explores what happens when one of your secondary characters is a Mary Sue. Her main character trait is extreme hereditary luck.
NAH. Nobody cares if a male character is like this. It’s exclusively used to knock female characters, and is often applied ANYWAY to female characters who are nuanced in personality and/or skillsets. ..like. Example? Literally every “classic” Male Stoic or Lonewolf “hero” is bland af and often an asshole but Ofc Hypercompenent to “back up” that “he’s fine/better alone” this and “completely 100% justified for treating people like shit and being a jerk” that. Long live the so-called “Mary Sues.”
@@anonymousfellow8879 "exclusively used to knock female characters" technically your right since the term for male characters is Gary Stu.... But I can disprove the intention of what your saying with one word, Kirito. About half of the people I know (that have seen SAO) don't like it and the criticism always starts with Kirito is a Gary Stu (though he isn't a jerk like many so many of the other textbook examples).
Plenty of thoughts on this topic! Ironically enough, I've found Smart characters to be the easiest to write for, particularly as protagonists. When you have a character that is smart, you also have a character that can slowly try to overcome their weaknesses by amping up their strength. My most fun character development arc was turning a Smart Girl normal human into a heroine by the adventures she was thrown into, while a Powerhouse veteran tried to win time by fighting the biggest and baddest threat in the meantime. And indeed, smart characters can easily become leaders, Twilight Sparkle fills the leader archetype AND the Smart archetype. She serves as both exposition and problem-solving, but she still has flaws and affection that makes her a loveable character. She loves her friends, she is highly moral, but is hilariously obsessed with the topics she loves and gets desperate when thrown into stuff outside of her field. And... something else I also noticed in old writing, and some disturbingly new writing, is how this archetype has the danger of falling into Anti-Intellectualism. When works only display Smart characters as subservient, rude, asocial, or villainous, it kind of paints intelligence as something secondary or even tertiary in importance, while telling people intelligence is a flaw or even evil, while dumbness is somehow noble. To me, smart characters are fascinating, and it kind of gives me hope that they are slowly coming to be portrayed more positively, and can even be allowed to be protagonists of their own. That said, when you have works like Sherlock or The Big Bang Theory, that tells you there's still that stigma of being a "nerd" that sticks even now.
Also, a very easy pitfall to fall in is writing a character "Smarter than the Author" (Author meaning the full writing team). This is most obvious in Anime where someone has an IQ of 5000 and says things that are either non-sequiters or blatently untrue. (Essentially the whole pulling conclusions out of thin air like "i know where you are hiding because the leaf fell 2in left of where it should have" or saying something about high level physics that is fundamentally the same as 2+3 = 6 except with bigger words and harder concepts) When this happens it can be quite jarring and ruin suspension of disbelief because someone just said that they run through walls by "Vibrating at the same frequency as air" (Looking at you Flash) like, first of all if that worked then air would pass right through concrete walls like they didn't exist, ignoring all of the math and physics that can be done to show how no superhero has given a valid explanation for running through walls yet.
@@jasonreed7522 We also have the very common writing crutch of showing how supersmart a character is - often done with robotic characters but also sometimes with living ones that need to be quickly conveyed to the audience as geniuses) - by having them give ridiculously overspecific odds (eg. "the probability of this plan failng is 93.4275%") in situations where that probability would be blatantly impossible to even approximate, let alone calculate to that degree of accuracy, with just how many millions of variables there are to account for.
", it kind of paints intelligence as something secondary or even tertiary in importance, while telling people intelligence is a flaw or even evil, while dumbness is somehow noble." Try talking to a guitarist about music theory, LOL
@@jasonreed7522 They tend to ignore that while yes, atoms have a lot of "empty space" in them in terms of actual substance, there are still all the electrical fields and other electrostatic forces/bonds holding them together, which is what makes something "solid". So yes, it might be physically possible to phase through a wall, you'd most likely just end up creating a massive explosion. Since essentially you'd be creating a mini particle accelerator/fusion reactor, with many of your particles smashing into/through the particles of the wall.
I wrote a character in a superhero/supervillain years ago called "Omnibus". He was connected to every alternate version of himself across the multiverse, but only subconsciously. A side effect of this was a kind of cosmic awareness: he had the potential not only to know everything every version of him knows, but the threads connecting himselves/herselves/themselves (English doesn't have a good word for multiple selves) "tune in" these selves to cosmic structures. The obvious downside to knowing something about everything, or everything about something, is that a basically human mind can't stand up to that kind of input. His safeguard: he could only tap into the knowledge if *someone* *else* asked him a question. This kept him from falling down the rabbit hole of all the things he could know by making the ability to tap into infinite knowledge external to the person with the ability. I kind of got a kick out of the idea of a character who was potentially incredibly powerful, but was effectively only as good as the questions he was asked.
I have a similar character named "Agen Rall-Pale" as an NPC in my D&D campaign, although maybe a bit less powerful. His eyes look like the void of space - black with stars shining in them. He has the ability to see alternate dimensions and the potential futures/actions of himself and others. This has led to him becoming quite aloof and he struggles with living in the moment, because he can see so many possibilities ahead of him.
That's a very cool and original way to work it! Not too Deus ex machina, still very powerful, good safeguard. I'm no writer or writing teacher but you get full marks from me 👍🏻
Can't wait for red to talk about the Twins trope Whether they're identical or not, mirror versions of eachother or total opposites, or heck maybe its just a "you look like me wanna switch places cuz our lives currently suck" situation, its a really interesting trope to me
Oh boy, that would bring up other sub-tropes like the evil twin or the "Prince and Pauper" situation of exchanging identities. Sooo many examples are appearing in my head: the Pines twins (Gravity Falls), Starfire and Blackfire, the original Prince and the Pauper, the Sonozaki sisters (Higurashi), etc.
Now I kinda want a story about a story about what at the start looks like a stereotypical tough guy smart guy duo, with the antagonist thinking so too, leading to the antagonist try to use it against the duo. Only it to be revealed that they are both adept at the others proficiency do to their time spent together. Like the "Smart guy" beating the shit out of the goons with the motherboard, with surprising strength, because he has trained with the "tough guy" for just such an occasion, while the "thought guy" takes over the energy network of the station with the knowledge he gained from spending time with the "smart guy" while he was tinkering.
When thinking about these kind of duos this sounds like the most logical option/result, smart and strong spending so much time together that they both learnt from each other's perspective and the way they approach to things
When Red mentioned how writing a neurodivergent-coded smart guy character isn’t inherently bad, I Immediately thought of Marcy Wu from Amphibia. She’s heavily neurodivergent coded (unintentionally, somehow) and definitely the team “smart guy,” and it feels like the fandom collectively decided she was our new favorite character within minutes of her introduction
I immediately thought of Marcy when the picture for “tactician” showed someone playing chess, and she’s definitely my favorite character in the show, partially because she’s a huge nerd. She’s also just a really good balance to the other characters in general, because as much as I love Anne, Sprig, and the others, they aren’t they best in the intelligence department. She’s also just written really well in my opinion.
@@mysteriousman678 Agreed Also, I like how Dr. Stone really feels more "genuine" than Re: Zero. As in "the protagonist is utterly weaker physically in comparison to everyone and the story keeps making that clear" (borth protagonists are even voiced by the same seiyuu). But unlike re: zero that sometimes feel too mean spirited (and tries to supposedly have its cake and eat it by saying "subaru is actually atheltic enough. is just that he is a normal fish in a big pond where he is as strong as children"; and not to mention how it later tries to say subaru is also dumb and has to improvise in other areas), dr. stone feels more genuine bcause it has more focus in the actual brains and treats the main character with more respesct while still portraying senku in a charismatic way
@@ianr.navahuber2195 But Re:Zero never had Subaru be a "brains" character, his strength was always emphasized to lie in his almost unbreakable will. Subaru is supposed to be just an average guy that doesn't give up, while Senku is supposed to be an intellectual powerhouse.
Anybody else notice that the entire time she was talking about the Smart Guy being relegated to an exposition machine the clips were laser focused on Endgame Hulk?
well yeh, even banner himself straight states this in ragnarock, to which thor basically says "yeh, so?". hes essentially relegated to being a mcguffin until his allotted 10 minutes of either smashing stuff or thinking stuff. he literally has less character than the iron man suit/ jarvis
11:02 I had this issue back when I was coming up with plans for smart characters in my stories. What helped me was realising that you the writer WILL eventually find the solution, it'll just take longer than the character. The brilliance isn't thinking of something no human could concieve. They're just able to put the pieces together far quicker than most. Figuring out in minutes what normal people take hours to realise.
Could it be that Leverage had 5 smart guy characters but with diferent smart guy traits mixed with all the other traits in different levels? That's so cool!!
Yep. They are all really damn smart at what they do and just smart in general. In the pilot they even reference that, when Parker says she's really good at one thing but Nate is really good at a lot of things...one of my favorite things about the show is how they all grow to be better at a lot of things by the end, so much so that Parker becomes the Mastermind.
As a neurodivergent person myself (whose special interest is the entire field of worldbuilding and storycrafting) I almost always end up making the Smart Guy or the Heart (or both) neurodivergent as well. Sometimes by accident, usually on purpose in the case of the Smart Guy because it gives me an excuse to let my brain relax and not get hung up on how a neurotypical person would react/respond. And because the idea of, "I had to work Really Hard to understand [physics/people/magic/emotions] and overshot," makes sense to me. (Allow me to infodump, since we're talking neurodivergence and character tropes, and I am indeed a Meganerd for this kind of thing) One of the other things I love doing with Smart Guys (and intelligent characters in general) is purposefully defining what kind of smart they are. Like, are they "nature" smart where they can tell you which way north is on a moment's notice or figure out what the weather is going to do? (Which is what I am, so these characters are very easy for me to write.) Are they people smart? Self smart? Are they musically or artistically smart? Spatially smart? Kinesthetically smart? (Aka possessing of a very accurate and trustworthy muscle memory.) Linguistic, logical, strategic, etc... there are a LOT of different kinds of "smart" and I tend to split up them up when considering party balance as well. That way I know A) if there is some skill overlap, they might not apply those skills in the same way because their focuses are different, and B) I might always have a "best at [_]" and a "second-best at [_]" to call on for certain scenarios if the best-at character is gone for some reason. Also LEVERAAAGE!!! Always love a Leverage B-roll. :D
Surprised you didn't give a shout out to Entrapta from She-Ra. I really appreciated how she was clearly written as neurodivergent without diagnosing her specifically, and how her antics and lack of social skills, while definitely a problem when working in a group and grating for her friends at times, is never made out to make her a bad or immoral person - after all, it's not entirely her fault. She switches to the "evil" side because she's genuinely more interested in technology than whatever political struggle is going on, but still regrets it and wants to be there for her friends - she's not emotionless. Her atypical thinking is an asset far more than it's detrimental, and she even manages to befriend the BBEG, a feat that probably wouldn't have been possible for anyone else.
Yeah, I talked a bit about it in some other comment, but I absilutely loved how they portrayed her. They both show how she's perceived negatively by others, but make it relatively easy to relate to relate to why she does what she does. And, over time, she manages to better express herself and be better understood. Besides, I honestly love her passion for understanding what the hell dictates the rules of the world, and how to mess up with them in all sorts of glorious (but dangerous) ways.
Well, I think Hans is actually in the "Street-Smart" sub-trope. While Chewy may show more intelligence in some situations (particularly combat), Hans knows how to deal with people better and is knowledgable in the black market and criminal relations stuff.
@@kaitlinowens2714 I'm with Kaitlin on this one. They tend to switch off, often because Han, at least in movies and TV episodes, is shown as being overconfident and unable to tell when he _doesn't_ know what he's doing, which is a real-life pitfall for smart guys. Chewbacca is more of a quietly-competent character, and of course, a Big Guy... AFAIK it's actually unclear whether Chewie isn't very good at engineering repairs, or if Han just thinks Chewie is.
As an autistic person, I really appreciate how respectful you are when you talk about certain tropes that come off as ableist. It's really refreshing and I can't tell you how nice it is to hear, so thank you c:
Serious question: what's your favorite prehistoric lifeform and why? I've only dipped my toes into prehistoric plant and animal life and would love to learn more.
My brother's autisic. We've formed a balance of me letting him ramble about his thing for a bit, then I let him know it's time to move on and we talk about other stuff. Even if I really don't care, I try to let him have his time because I know how important it is to him, and it's part of him processing his thoughts. Because he knows I'll let him ramble again some other time he's not upset by having to move on. When he interacts with others I've been trying to help him do the same on his own, talk about it only for a bit then let the conversation move on to other things so other people can talk about the things they love too. I know he's never going to fully grasp things like how the time and place and person effect what's an appropriate conversation topic, so I'm hoping that doing things this way will at least cut down on people getting automatically annoyed when he talks. He's such an amazing guy, I don't like it when people shut him down like that just because he doesn't communicate the same way.
For the neurodivergent smart guy role, I found Entrapta from the recent She-Ra reboot to be a positive example of the trope. She's on the autistic spectrum and hyper focused on technology to the point that she tends to be morally neutral. At the same time, she acknowledges her difficulties with understanding interpersonal communications yet frequently strives to overcome that perceived failing. She's not a jerk, she just doesn't get how she affects others at times. Her arc is even centered on overcoming her fixations to focus on helping the friends she's made. Most importantly, she shows herself to be a full character, showing empathy to those dealing with issues she can relate to, developing relationships, and even acting kinda horny at times. Not a fighter by any stretch, but by the end she's evolved enough to take on elements of the heart role where certain other characters are concerned.
Honestly was waiting for Parker to pop up when she referenced the neurodivergent smart guy but yep, I was gleeful watching this and seeing all my babies.
THANK YOU for mentioning the whole iffiness of other characters making fun of the Smart Guy's interests, that was always a trope that bothered me in otherwise fine stories.
My favorite neurodivergent "Smart Guy" is Futaba from Persona 5. She's very nd-coded and her English voice actress has said she believe the character is on the autism spectrum. But she was never really portrayed as rude or antisocial, most of her social difficulties and lack of friends (beyond the Phantom Thieves of course) come from the fact that she was severely traumatized when she was blamed for her mother's death and only now is healing from being a suicidal shut-in. Her confidant focuses on trying to get back out there to help this healing process and I think it's really interesting that they explored how she was affected by being different and then traumatized and they didn't make her any less capable because of that.
The smart guys are one of my favorite archetypes, mostly because of the mage smart guy. As someone who was really not that physically active as a kid, I always found them really cool! Not only do they help their team with their intelligence but they are also powerful enough to defeat villains, sometimes on their own. Bonus points if the villain team also has a smart guy and both of them later become rivals or even frenemies of some sort.
Shoutout to Spud from American Dragon: Jake Long, who is eventually revealed to be an absolute genius, but he hates the expectations that come with that so he pretends to be as dumb as humanly possible. Also, shoutout to Sly 3 for basically being one giant examination of how smart guys relate to leaders/heroes.
Bentley is a fantastic example of the trope, especially considering where his character goes with the introduction of Penelope. They're both such fun extrapolations of the trope.
@@TheWatcher51393 I 100% agree with this, Bentley is my favorite character in the Sly games and it’s really cool seeing how far he developed. He went from a turtle that was scared of going out on the field on mission and being on the side to a team member that may be scared, but goes onto the field with his friends despite what happened to him in the second game.
Also making Sly 3 interesting was that the villain is a dark foil of Bentley: the former Smart Guy of Sly's father's team who went full villain out of jealous and is confused that Bentley hasn't done the same.
Ha I was waiting for Entrapta to be shown, especially when you were talking about how a neurodivergent character can be hyperfixated on something. She's not a bad person, but a lot of other characters think she is, because she's so hyperfixated on her robots that she doesn't see a lot of social cues.
Reminds me of a buddy's story idea where one of the characters he describes as "The Rock, John Cena, and Dave Bautista all mixed together in a protein shake blender" but was actually a (technical) pacifist high-class noble who got that built because he was sickly as a child and thus trained and exercised alot to give his body the strength and stamina to be able to read and study more. Thus in spite of looking like the Big Guy he filled the Smart Guy role instead due to his culture, book-learning, and preferences for nonviolent solutions (the Big Guy role was filled by a barbarian amazon warrior who is as tall as him and his childhood sweetheart who had a running gag as "Ms. Anti-Exposition" who would sarcastically interrupt and summarize his info-dump technobabble).
My favourite use of the "smart guy" trope is Timothy Zahn's Thrawn books. Literally every important character could be seen as a "smart guy" in other stories but in Zahn's work, being smart is just a prerequisite. Instead, they all fill another role in addition to being the "smart guy" in their area of expertise.
"what is niche and nerdy these days?" one thing that comes to mind is a hobby I have called "non-professional developer" where the a someone makes a video game, not really with the intent of selling it, but just for fun. This gets an extra layer of nerdiness when it's for some obsolete platform. making a new game for an older system, especially one that's no long supported by it's manufacturer, requires quite a high level of nerdiness. for example people still make games for the Game Boy Advanced, which is insane but impressive.
I like the smart guy because they’re typically the ones who can hold their own against the group if and when they turn evil. The leader typically never turns evil, and when any of the others do it’s typically more out of emotion. When the smart guy does evil it comes from a logical standpoint and more well thought out.
When you said Smart Guy I was thinking of Donatello from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Kowalski from Penguins Of Madagascar Simon from Alvin & The Chipmunks
@@chasecollins3263 Yeah the TMNT came out in ‘84 and Alvin & The Chipmunks came out in ‘58,but the Animated TV Show came out in ‘83 and the Penguins weren’t introduced until ‘05.
I appreciate in Digimon Adventure that Izzy, the group’s smart guy, is often pretty valued especially by the hot-headed leader Tai. When Tai is officially recognized as the leader to solve a problem, the first thing he does is trust Izzy to solve it since that is in Izzy’s wheelhouse. He and Izzy often seem to work together: getting medicine, battling on the Internet, and coordinating upgrades to their Digimon fighting tech. Then in the reboot that brought the kids to the modern era, Tai thought Izzy’s tablet and programming knowledge was cool. It’s just refreshing to see the adventurous and brash character acknowledge the strengths of the smart guy especially when the smart guy is just a typical nerd.
TH-camr Telltale made a video that really, really got me thinking: Pastor Plans To FLOOD Elections With "Patriot Pastors" If you have any interest in Science, Atheism, Rationality, please watch till the end-speech and consider why I, some Random, went out of his way to ask you about it. For extra-context: Another end-speech (but also the whole video) of Professor Daves video about the ‚Discovery Institute’, should maybe give you Hints for hte bigger Picture of Religions relationships with Science and Politics.
Digimon was SO GOOD with all these tropes, especially for how each time that one got played straight, it would also be subverted, or subverted and THEN played straight in a different context…
I'm really glad to see some Leverage love here, and the realization that like..the entire team of Leverage has Smart Guy in one way or another. Nate and Hardison have it Mained, while Sophie, Eliot, and Parker all have like, a subclass of Smart Guy.
Yup, been going 'but that would mean this role is filled by x, that's not the same person as 2 sentences ago' with less frustration, when Red pointed out 'not strictly by 5-man-band-rules' was her point there. If we were to name the 'classical band', it's undeniably Hardison. - the big-guy/smart-guy banter dynamic with Elliot: check. - the 'blueprint-fairy': check (with the episode that starts with that title, handily tackling the 'exposition-guy, if done poorly'-point) - the exposition-guy: check runs the presentation (though I always presume Nate has already seen it) - the 'has a genuine risk of (thinking they can) take over as leader': check (also a fun episode) With the biggest hurdle in 'the classic' being parker as the heart. While her childlike impulsiveness and stress at social interactions, make her the moral center that keeps the rest check (Despite how Nate was recruited for that purpose), the 'can handle the social encounters' is absolutely her greatest weakness But indeed, they all have the 'experts in their own fields, occasional brilliance' I would put Elliot in the 'have it Mained'-category as well. While 'know the team'/'the chess-player'-tactician is undeniably Nate. I definitely wouldn't put Elliot 'it is a very distinctive X' Spencer below him. For every 'worked in X security' Nate can throw, Elliot has a 'dated X-employee' The main difference is, Nate consistently shows it, so is expected to do so. Maggie: “You know, people underestimate you Eliot.” Nate: "That’s kinda the point."
I loved hearing Red talk about the problems with painting smart guys as neurodivergent jerks because neurotypical people don't get us. Also love the Gravity Falls.
@@lysanamcmillan7972 I am in an unfortunate position with Sheldon. I realize that he is terrible autistic representation; but at the same time, he was the first bit of representation I got and I kind of latched on to him. I am slowly peeling away, especially now that I see how bad it is, but it's still hard for me.
The thing is, it kind of is an obvious connection for hyperfication is one of the best ways to become highly competend and knowlagable concerning a topic or field. All aces have some level of obcession with their field of expertise or they would not have gotten to the point of mastery . . . . but yes, absolutly people could put a hell of a lot more effort into wellrounded and layered portrails there . . . A good one in my eyes is Spencer Reid from Criminal Minds, socialy often clueless, extreamly competend in some areas and alienating himself with it, but that is not all. Once getting used to him, they all love him fiercly and for good reason. He is very compassionate once he finds something to latch onto and cares deeply. He is selfless and makes an effort to get things that do not come naturaly to him to bond with those he cares about and help people, he is so much more than just a neurodiverse smartass. (and the most beloved character of the show)
@@rubyrangitsch5248 yeh he sucks but its on the writers not the actor because the actor actually has autism idk why they didn’t just get him to be himself with a lot of if
@@rubyrangitsch5248 Sheldon a a character is not a "terrible autistic representation" so much as a representation of a terrible, narcissistic selfish _person_ who just happens to be autistic, who has his overly inflated ego constantly fed by his mother and his friends who cave in to his demands.
Oh man THANK YOU for calling out the recent Sherlock Holmes interpretations. My first exposure to Holmes was the actual books. And while yes, Holmes could be insensitive, it was ALWAYS an unintentional, and he was always truly sorry for accidentally hurting someone. These days it's always, "I'm so much smarter than you that I see you as literally beneath me, and I find you feelings absolutely worthless." The original Holmes would have viewed these newer interpretations of himself as absolute louts.
As a neurodivergent person, I love writing neurodivergent smart guys. There's a lot of character potential there that neurotypicals don't always realize. One character in my comic is an autistic girl whose special interest is cryptozoology, which is useful when cryptids are a major thing in the story. She has a very flat affect and as such doesn't have many friends because most people think she's cold and uncaring, but she actually cares a lot and struggles with loneliness. She feels like a cryptid herself which is part of what draws her to the subject. She's super fun to write and among the 5 people who have read my comic she's one of the more popular characters, which I'm glad for. Real neurodivergent rep is sorely lacking in media.
It's that thing the normies, do, though, where they latch onto that one canonically autistic character, and use that character as their entire definition and personal model for what _all_ autistic people are like.
I’m ND (potentially on the spectrum, I haven’t gotten a proper evaluation though) and one of my special interests has always been language. Funny that one of my weakest points is actually communicating more synchronously. If I’ve got the time and separation of a letter, email, text, comment, etc I’m usually fine. But on the spot? Not even close
I hooted and hollered seeing Geordi being referenced in the bit about ship's engineers, especially since I knew *instantly* which specific scene of "Yesterday's Enterprise" Red had pulled his clip from.
Even when it's done well, the neurodivergent smart guy character still kinda bothers me because I'm so sick of every goddamn autistic-coded character in fiction being good at math. We're not all good at math, guys! Also, more generally, we're not all savants - just because we have a special interest doesn't necessarily mean we're an expert in it.
As someone on the autism spectrum: This! I personally loathe maths. Give me history, stories, interconnected webs of more subtle information, not... Linear, dry, empty numbers. Math makes my brain literally crash.
I feel it kinda goes together with the love modern society has for science and technology. Nothing wrong with liking that stuff, but the overdose does lead to underestimation of more practical knowledge, emotional intelligence and literary knowledge or even encryption (to name some). Also specifically for people on the spectrum it feels really shitty to basically be supposed to be good at these technological things and then not be. Some more variety in special interests really wouldn't hurt.
@@TheLostArchangel666 Math isn't dry nor linear. And it barely even has numbers above a middle school level, so calling it empty numbers is even more misleading. Be pro diverse neurodivergent characters all you want, but this slandering of the great name of math will not be accepted in this house.
@@RasmusVJS Oh, I'm rationally aware of those facts. And the point where math stops using numbers and starts using algebraic formulas instead is where I start to obtain one hell of a headache the longer I stare at the darned things. It nonetheless requires a more... Inherently structured, step-by-step than what my mind naturally does? I'm great at more... Subjectively inclined forms of reason? History, sociology, anthropology... Hell, even economics and such are by far preferable to "pure" math. With other words: Screw math, I'm a heretic, what are you gonna do about it? Math = Mental Abuse To Humans. *and by "Humans", I mean me personally. I am Humans. The fact that other Humans do not share in this experience does totally not render my claim disproven. Not at all!
As a writer I really appreciate your videos. The mythology is giving me ideas for story plots, and now I'm finding you got character style lesson videos. You're like an entire creative writing class put intoTH-cam. .
Great work, as always! And thanks for the Sokka love. He’s one of those ATLA characters who often gets overshadowed, but when you look at the show in its totality, he’s remarkably capable in his own right.
"What's nerdy these days" she asks, orbital mechanics and quantum physics are probably up there, higher level math will _always_ be nerdy, even if what math is considered "higher level" changes
existential philosophy, although in order to write that one you would have to be into it yourself so you'd just end up writing a tortured author self-insert with 4th wall breaking capabilities.
Writing itself if you get super worldbuildy/philosophical, any niche media, especially if it's somewhat "intellectual" (so Fallen London might count, bad webnovels not so much), media from ye olden days and maybe history and medicine beyond the very basics? But the more hard science/tech equivalent...no idea.
The five smart-man band: • The Mech-Suit 'Muscle' - builds stuff, and uses tech to move\hit stuff • The Empath - Takes notice of what is said, how it's said, behaviours, and other situational details; figuring out reasons someone or something is being an obsticle. • The Planner - The leader, and tactician. Also makes sure the party is supplied for the intended goal. • The Eccentric - Creates more egnamic inventions, like a fart gun or literal lightning in a literal bottle. A little unhinged, a foil to the planner, but their gizmos are useful at least one third of the time; the situation just has to be right. May or may not have invented time travel… the party can't rule out the possibility. • The Observer - Travels with the rest of the group, an outgoing introvert… but if something is out of place, they'll bring it to the attention of the nearest party member. Is there a clicking noise that the others don't notice? Is that light fixture sunk into the wall instead of against it? Is there faint movements in the shadows. The Observer will notice. Edits: *March 2, 2022* • two thirds → one third • they situatiom → the situation
TH-camr Telltale made a video that really, really got me thinking: Pastor Plans To FLOOD Elections With "Patriot Pastors" If you have any interest in Science, Atheism, Rationality, please watch till the end-speech and consider why I, some Random, went out of his way to ask you about it. For extra-context: Another end-speech (but also the whole video) of Professor Daves video about the ‚Discovery Institute’, should maybe give you Hints for hte bigger Picture of Religions relationships with Science and Politics.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 89 | คู่เอก "ยอดไอคิว vs คิริลล์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Z3vYkHJ_5Ig/mqdefault.jpg)
"We need to reboot the router." "In English, dammit!" is probably my favorite background gag.
"In English Goddammit!"
"In French!"
"In Morse code!"
IN WINGDINGS!!
@@SylverMage "I understood that reference"
And the retort "That was in English"
Usually there is way more depth and even the given explanation is wrong. (Authors writing over their own knowledge levels is super obvious if the character is talking under yours in a subject) its real fun being a nerd and realizing that the "Smart Guy" you loved as a kid is a complete idiot. Famous example, in A New Hope Han brags about completing the Kessle Run in under X Parsecs, a parsec is a unit of distance not time. Specifically a parsect is the distance a star would need to be from our sun for it to apear to move by 1arcsecond (1/60 of 1/60 of a degree) in the sky after the earth has moved to the other side of the sun (6 months later), this is about 3.262 light-years (distance light travels in 1 years time). This is equivalent to saying you drove from Newyork to LA in under 50miles, makes no sense. Fortunately this particular plot hole has many solutions ranging from the film "Solo" having them take an actual shortcut to the funniest suggestion i heard where Han is actually an idiot who doesn't know what a parsec is.
Just one example but basically all technobable is painfully inaccurate.
"In interpretative dance!"
What's neat about Sokka is that he's almost a tactical version of the Avatar. While Aang is learning bending, Sokka is learning strategies from all over the world.
He is also basically every smart guy archetype but the Mage.
He isn't really even the smart guy starting out, at least not especially obviously. It really seems to kick in around Kiyoshi Island where he gets humbled by the Kiyoshi Warriors and has to swallow his pride and admit his wordview is flawed and there is still a lot he has to learn.
Smart or not. it is impressive that Sokka learned all the non-bending fighting styles. He basically became the non-bending avatar ;p
Ty for saying this. So true
Trench warfare, chemical warfare, guerilla warfare, naval warfare, the four types of war were at war until the Geneva convention was made
Sokka is the equivalent of the "crouching moron hidden badass" trope but more so "crouching moron hidden genius" and really I love that about his character.
Sokka was the underdog of the show
A character I can relate to
I think that would describe Joseph Joestar as well. At least young Joseph. He seems like a childish goof until you realize that he's somehow been 6 steps ahead of you the whole time.
He's a goofball but no one said goofballs have to be dumb.
I self identify as a sokka
I find it quite funny how the smart guy in phantasy is usually a mage, but in Avatar, Sokka is explicitly defined as one of the few non-mages
Helps when the setting is filled with what are essentially, in tabletop terms, charisma and wisdom (or he’ll even constitution if we look to Pathfinder kineticists) casters instead of intelligent casters like wizards.
In Avatar bending is genetic (or some leyline or spirit bs; I’ve dumped lots of Kora lore memories frankly) so outside of learning techniques there’s a distinct lack of bookworms throwing super novas at the local library. Giant spirit owl notwithstanding.
It helps that magic in Avatar is much more esoteric. Bending is very tactile with the more out there, spiritual techniques like astral projection being very rare outside of the Avatar and Airbenders like Zaheer and Jinora. (And Iroh but of course HE can do what almost no one else can.)
Because bending is rooted in martial arts, the more mystical aspects are more about philosophy and mindset than understanding and deciphering codified systems as wizards and such are typically portrayed in the “magic as science” conception.
BUT because bending and spirits are so intangible on a fundamental level, Sokka excels at the tangible. What he can quantify, grasp, wrap his head around. So he can do many things from engineering, to poetry, to tactics, to investigation.
@@jemm113 Wth did you write in that comment? Was that aneurysm simulator?
Probably a result of avatar’s magic system being So combat based, you CANT be a glass canon AND a bender, because in Avatar, the line between being a physical powerhouse And a magical powerhouse gets real blurry.
@@John1045 from what i can tell, the man was mostly talking in dungeons and dragons or video game terms. charisma and wisdom or constitution for very some extremely obscure or niche classes is how the power and efficiency of spell classes other than wizard are determined in dungeons &Dragons. rather than intelligence or knowledge people who use spells that aren't wizards use different ways in order to do magic that isn't studying. he is basically comparing benders in avatar to these types of spell casters since their powers are more inherent or come from a source that isn't knowledge and studying.
I love how the strengths/weaknesses map has "Can Drive" "Can Cook" and "Has Netflix" on it.
The Smart Guy is the most important person in the polycule
What do you mean, I don't have Netflix :(
Well, One Piece DID make a big deal about the Straw Hats needing Sanji due him being a cook
"And Why It's Fred"
@@youtubeuniversity3638 is that a jelloApocalypse reference?
What about the earliest example of the smart guy: Odysseus! Unlike other Greek heroes with god-like powers from their god parents, Odysseus is completely human and uses his smarts to get out of bad situations. Getting a cyclops drunk, building his own palace and raft to get home, the Trojan horse, the list goes on.
Odysseus is an interesting figure to display how attitudes to smarts varied over time. The Greeks saw him as a hero. However, the Romans much preferred a straight up fight, which they knew they would win because they saw themselves as tougher and more manly than anyone else. Hence, under Roman dominance, Odysseus tended to be maligned as a dishonourable conniving back-stabber - not at all the sort of hero a true Roman would aspire to emulate.
The role of, and space for, the smart guy, is very culture dependent. In some mythos, like those of Anansi, the smart guy is basically the hero.
Dude was so clever that Athena planted herself firmly in his corner.
@@washada exactly. And he's also descended from Zeus.
@@benjaminphillips2595 well yes but I mean he was born from the archetype trickster god Hermes I believe hence the reason why he also helps out a lot. And Zeus is his dad. But if I recall him being connected to the big guy is more circumstance than plot. As in it never factors in much unlike other heros.
@@washada Also that whole thing with the bow and axe handles.
"While you were bending water I was studying the blade, while you were bending earth I was studying the blade." - Sokka, probably.
Bro wait a minute how did Sokka and Zuko never trade sword tips or spar? I don't think I remember anything like that when Zuko joins in Book 3.
@@RacingSnails64 i think there was some kind of deleted scene of zuko and sokka sparring, although my memory is a bit foggy so it might just be my memory deceiving me
@@sander3798 it was in a comic... Basically Zuko and Sokka are Piandao's students... They spared a bit..
@@RacingSnails64 it's a crime we didn't ever see that in the show
"while you were commenting on a TH-cam video I was studying the blade."
I love how Toph is the “Big Guy” despite being tiny. Ember Island nailed it
The entire episode was filler where the writers just had fun laughing at themselves
@@carsoncasmirri3874 a recap episode so good people don't even realize its a recap episode
I choose to believe that since the Ember Island Players is basically pro-fire nation propaganda, no one wanted to admit that a little girl was talented enough as an earth bender to take down trained soldiers. So as the stories were gathered, fire nation soldiers kept lying and saying Toph was a huge, terrifying dude when in reality, she was a small, terrifying blind girl with incredible bending prowess
To be fair her personality is definitely the biggest.
My name is Toph cause it sounds like tough
I've found that the trick to writing a smart guy is to remember that as the writer, I have a luxury that my smart guy character doesn't: time. If you have a smart guy, write them into a corner and then take the time to figure out how they can get themselves out of it. This can make your smart guy seem brilliant because nobody needs to know just how long it took you to come up with the solution when the smart guy figures it out in seconds. I've found this to work equally well with both good and evil smart guys. Especially when you're able to come up with a solution based around information that your smart guy canonically knows.
This is the way, but also means that putting in the work to write a smart-guy well can take a LOT of resources.
Id also argue use references. Yeah beating some great god villain, or bokb of time whatever prob isnt something you can look up but you can reference likeness of real life peoples situations or characters you enoyed, then look up how the creator came about making them and the plan?
Hell yes, this exactly. I felt that incredibly much, just due to the difference of "play by post" DnD versus "at the table" DnD. (Or just tabletop in general)
The moment I have to improv a smart solution that my character can throw out, you can forget that I could ever make a convincing 'smart guy' move.
On the other hand, if you have the time to think things through - as in play-by-post - suddenly you've the time to spend on thinking through your options, plan around them, and even consider the potential consequences and how to deal with them.
An author can also use the resources available to them (the internet) that might not be available to the smart guy, to allow the character to Just Figure It Out while the author didn't have to.
And try to set up everything they'll use to get out of that corner beforehand
“The writer’s ‘clever plan-inator’” is the best way I’ve ever heard the plotting process described omg
"You see, Perry the Platypus, I realised that the reason I never succeed in conquering THE ENTIRE. TRI. STATE. AREA! is because while my inators are brilliant, my plans for how to use them are, well, not good.
Now, don't say anything. I know what you're thinking. 'Big shocker! Dumb Doof who always loses to me has dumb plans!' You know, Perry the Platypus, you can be very condescending sometimes. However, that won't matter anymore because I've found a solution.
BEHOLD! MY CLEVER PLAN-INATOR!"
@@theyakkoman and the clever plan-inator goes all Hal-9000 on him and he and perry have to team up to stop it.
@@demonminer8093 why was this not an actual episode? The joke's practically write themselves! Maybe the episode starts with the boys deciding to make an A.I. to do the neighbors homework for them and instruct it not to let their parents know and then Candace finds out and with the ever iconic "I'm telling mom" line the robot follows it's prime directive and attempts to eliminate Candace before she can snitch demonstrating the combat functions the boys built in because they were bored. It could be a terminator homage and everything!
@@latorasmith Good idea except P and F regularly go to extreme lengths to help kids WITH school and learning things (The Big Brain, give me a grade). The AI would probably be a tutor, but it's for Buford and he wants to keep it secret and that's why it goes haywire.
Why do I have a feeling like the clever plan-inator would be thrown off the tower, or at least gets launched far away from it, crash into the ai, effectively stopping it and looks like everything is broken and unable to be used. It all gets thrown in the trash, and then who knows how many episodes later, we find out that "oh, the big tri state area take over machine isn't the doof's but actually the fusion of the plan-inator and the ai"
(Why do I also feel like I just explained the plot of one of the Phineas and Ferb movies-)
One of my favorite things about Sokka is that he's both the tactical strategist and also the big goofball. At a glance, you'd think he's just the clumsy comic relief guy, but he's actually very intuitive and observant.
and determined. he specifically isn't gifted. he works hard at bettering himself every chance he gets and always tries to be practical and responsible in spite of the protests of his much younger and less mature companions..
And his girlfriend became the moon
@@therealchaosguy "That's rough buddy"
@@kodaxmax Yea
He could also be pretty cold
One of my favourite Smart Guy traits to see is practicality. Often characters (and audiences) in supernatural stories can forget that there exist normie solutions to problems, so having a character (often one with no powers) that can, for example, answer "how can we stop this guy" in an urban fantasy setting with "hit him with a bus" can actually be a clever and fun show of smarts.
And it usually ends up being pretty funny too!
@@swingloveEKL "OH NO! this villain who is just a normal guy but has some really good plan or magic artifact or whatever is about to win! what ever could we do!
practical smart guy: hey! why don't we use a GUN.
Like Buffy with the Bazooka/RPG. Great scene.
In Supernatural, there was a Bobby-centric episode wherein he doesn't have the culturally relevant anti evil stuff about, but then accidentally* yeets the monster into a Woodchipper.
It was a very "Oh. That works" moment
@@jonathantadlock-stein2023 I still call bullshit on somebody like Hermione Granger not having mentioned that even once.
Chewie is the smart guy in the Chewie/Han Smart Guy/Big Guy duo. Despite being physically larger and more imposing, Chewie is usually depicted as the one who fixes the ship, is the better pilot, and is the more insightful of the two despite his inability to speak common. Han is the guy you point in a general direction and tell him to shoot things.
Chewie and han are more a Lancer/Big Guy duo.
Because Han does Show a Lot of Streetssmarts, while chewie shows book and emotional smarts.
I feel they fill two different smart guy roles but like Red said, “A character isn’t limited to their character roles in the five man band”.
Chewie also fills the stereotype of playing Space Chess, the origin of the "Let the Wookie win" quote. This, of course, also implies he's not great at Space Chess.
….no? How do you justify this? Did you forget that Han corrects Chewie’s work? They’re about equal in technical skill. On top of that, how is Chewie more “insightful?” What sort of fanfic have you written about these characters in your own head?
Chewie isn’t the Smart Guy. He’s the CoPilot. The slightly less, but better in other ways, to Han’s Pilot. He is technically knowledgeable, but in the same way Han is.
I would say Chewie is more of a Big guy/Heart, where Han is more of a Smart guy/Lancer to Luke.
Red: "...hide behind the tank and chuck fireballs."
Me: "Hide behind the tank, a large rock, a solid stone column, a building, under a large table, across a river, across the nation, or from another continent entirely. Also, never underestimate the importance of a solid, oak table. A wizard worth their salt will be able to scan any bar and know INSTANTLY what's the best table to hide under in the place. Oh, and hay carts make lousy hiding spots. You'd think all that hay would be a great place to hide and chuck fireballs, but only a madman would hide in a place of very flammable stuff on top of a mobile funeral pyre."
Diskworld, right?
@@mirjanbouma Diskworld wizards generally get really good at *running,* which isn't quite the same as hiding.
@@Treegona I thought that was mostly Rincewind. Most wizards lack the physique for running, if I recall correctly.
@@mirjanbouma Oh nono, the cauldrons tend to explode, so everyone, even the fat ones, *especially* the fat ones, is Fast.
If you're a slow wizard, you die. It's natural selection.
@@Treegona well now I know I need to reread my Diskworld books, specifically the UA ones! You are absolutely right.
When we play d&d, I’m personally a “big guy” main, but shout out to all the “smart guy” mains. For without you, we are stupid, and without us, you are dead.
Those can totally intersect sometimes. I've played many a Barbarian who ends up carrying a bunch of random magic items and random mundane items both because A) he's a Barbarian, he can carry a lot of stuff; B) he doesn't have magic powers to solve problems with, so if we need to change our elevation, he has a ladder for that. It results in a Barbarian who spends a lot of time trying to manage the whole party's resources and McGuyver solutions to problems that can't be solved by Axe.
I'm usually the cleric, and I can't decide if that makes me the "smart guy" or the "heart."
Some of the fighter class options lend themselves really well to tactician "smart guy" and I love it.
@@that_rhobot Not me, baby! I’m full blown dumbass every time! Khalar “Octopus” Kharver has two functions, hit, get hit. That is all.
I'm just a lowly Wizard main, don't make me do all the thinking😂
The fact that 'what is niche and nerdy these days' even needs to be asked:
"Age of the geek, baby"
Steam Locomotive and railway engineering
Steam Locomotive and railway engineering
Steam Locomotive and railway engineering
Whoever translated the Bible screwed up. It wasn't "the meek shall inherit the world", it was "the geek shall inherit the world".
Sword play? LARPing?
I love how every three out of four Trope Talks end up being reminders of how great Avatar TLA is.
That’s how you know it’s the best 👏
i feel like Avatar is to this channel what star trek is to red letter media.
@@arcadeassassin7176 if they ever make an Avatar offshoot that takes place in a setting that looks/feels/acts like Venice, this channel will just be unable to help themselves.
"Check it off your bingo card" BINGO!
We need an Avatar TLA compilation!!
Hot Take: Chewbacca is the Smart Guy and Han is the bruiser that gets pointed at things. Chewbacca fixes the ship and does the technical stuff, Han shoots consoles and leads WW2 style commando assaults on Endor...
I mean, it's not like Wookies are a technologically primitive species. The traditional bowcaster shoots lasers capable of disabling star fighters.
Han is also the Face
Both do a lot of fixing and can therefore be considered to be the “smart guy”.
Luke is obviously the Smart Guy because he's the mage.
you are correct
this is not a hot take
That "smart guy being an antisocial jerk" trope is probably my biggest reason why Senku from Dr. Stone is one of my favorite smart characters of all time. It's very subversive, I think truly intelligent people would know to be kind to others.
I really like how Senku is one billion percent a paragon, but he has totally villainous mannerisms.
That, and he's a master of finding a solution to difficult situations that's both the most practical and the most ethical. Usually smart guys are the ones who present the leader with a choice between two terrible options. Senku is several times presented with choices like that, but he uses his smarts to find another, better option.
@@zoro115-s6b Senku taps into my favorite trope of all time: Taking the Third Option. When done with a dumb or just outwardly not-so-intelligent character it can have a nasty habit of seeming like an ass-pull if not set up properly. But when done with a convincingly well-done, intelligent character it can be the most hype thing in existence. It channels the perfect amount of the Diogenes spirit of “fuck you” to the villain, plot, and world at large.
It’s also hilarious when my Wizard (or the party Bard/other player duo) gets one over on the DM. Though funny enough my current character that does this is my conspiracy theory nut Warlock Sorcerer.
I just like that senku is self-confident. He understands his limits and works around them and that's it. He's also not supremely good at all things brainy since the mentalist guy whose name I forget rn has got senku brocking (explaining things in long-winded ways that are clearly addressed to a less-informed audience, similar to what brock from the pokemon anime does) at least a couple of times. Chrome and him also brock for senku several times, showing how each has a different intellectual strength. Because intellect isn't about a singular INT stat making you smarter or not. People have strong suits and weak suits, both in the knowledge aspect of the deal and the application of knowledge.
I think your comment touches on an important point of people's perception of what intelligence is and looks like. I love your conception of it includes understanding the importance of being kind to others.
This reminds me of Azimuth from Ben 10, it is said that every single incarnation of him across the Multiverse is a good guy because "he is too smart to be evil"
Making the protagonist the smart guy is unironically hilarious for inner monologues.
"How the heck do i get outta this one-"
"I AM A GODDAMN GENIUS!"
"Nevermind I'm an idiot."
"Damn it everyone is looking at me again. Guess i gotta start making a plan."
"This is it, I'm gonna die with these idiots."
"Human interactions are like... what quantum physics is to you." "Uh confusing?" "Borderline impossible to understand."
Red Robin
That’s why Lelouch is my favorite
Regressor instruction manual does this. Way too well
I love when the smart guy is also the only person who has common sense and is constantly frustrated by everyone being idiots and looking at them for help.
A smart guy that lacks common sense is great too. Maybe they’re an expert engineer and can build high-tech machines and gadgets but otherwise seem dumb
@@daforkgaming3320*Nuclear Fusion plays in the background*
Something I've found difficult yet interesting about writing smart characters is how to make it _plausible._ How do they know that one necessary fact, how do they plan so far in advance, how do they notice that one crucial piece of evidence, etc. It's way too easy to just have them _deus ex machina_ the whole story, making them _too_ smart and destroy the tension. It's challenging, but fun in its own way.
i think the trick here is to make the planning seem consistent to the character...for example....Jack Sparrow. Captain Jack is a street smart character, he is cunning and the way you see it is in his consistent methods of out doing his opponents in various outlandish ways. He swipes a coin to turn himself undead to avoid being killed, he and Will take a boat and walk under water to sneak aboard a ship, among various others tactics. He plays the fool but is always shown to be a step ahead so it feels consistent...in the writing.
Playing my first Rouge in D&D Has shown me that back story and character traits go a long way in explaining these things
I'd say a key thing to not make the smart guy appear to be a deus ex machina device is foreshadowing the solutions he will provide by little hints.
I do it like D&D. Figure out the character's ability to understand/memorize information and draw logical conclusions based on the information they do have.
Then roll a die to see if the character happened to randomly Google "how nuclear fission works" at 2am sometime in the last decade for literally any reason, ranging from "it's my job/college minor" to online nerd arguments about IM's arc reactor for funsies to "I drank too much mountain dew before bed and am bored".
Yeah a prime example of how not to do a smart guy is Izzy from Digimon. He simply knows way too much and basically the one who figures everything out. The show is mostly him info dumping with little to no explanation of how he knows what he knows.
"Show, don't tell" is especially difficult when it entails presenting somebody as very smart.
just put the character in the background reading/tinketing/studying/practicing ALL the time.
Might be controversial, but the recent "Prey" movie did this well at the end to me.
Some spoiling maybe below, but I tried to avoid it:
The plan at the end made me legitimately go "no way I forgot about that piece", like I was able to predict some of it, but I was genuinely impressed at a plan going right in an action sequence.
@@Handles_Are_Bad.Phuk-them-off that's more telling than showing, imo. At least in literary terms. It's basically the creator going "[CHARACTER] is currently being smart and doing smart things" without ever really telling us what the smart things are. A character who is always tinkering in the background and makes cool gadgets but never makes smart decisions, solves problems or learns from their mistakes doesn't feel smart, they feel like an idiot with a wrench.
Yeah I'm finding that out with the current story im working on as my main character is supposed to be extremely smart. However I've found that instead of trying to find ways to make him smart it's easier to go the whole "alien" route,where his way of thinking and proccessing of information is so out of the ordinary he comes off as inhuman
@@Neutral_Tired Yep, that borders into the so called "informed ability". When a character is said to have a certain trait, but the only sign the reader/watcher has of it is... that everyone keeps repeating it despise the fact that said trait never actually plays a role in the story.
The sniper is one of the subcategories the smart guy can be part of, since you can give them a lot of power and still make them conditional, one of the few times when, if the situation calls for it and he is not just there for cover fire, the whole trope gets switched, with everyone becoming the support and trying to give the sniper a good opportunity.
I immediately thought of the Sniper in Team Fortress 2, I couldn't help it. But, ironically, the smart characters in TF2 would actually be the Engineer and the Medic
@@100lovenana Ok but arguably, Sniper is the most sane of the group. He does a job and does it well. Sure he throws jars of piss but hey, I didn’t say he’s completely sane, just the most sane
Ah yes, the Captain of an 8000 men fleet.
A smart sniper could also serve as the lancer.
@@100lovenana i thought you were talking about competitive tf2 for a sec, since the sniper is the most important class in highlander.
the entire teams job is to support him, due to how effective a good sniper is
It would be interesting to split up the ways of being smart between the party:
The Leader is observant and intelligent,
The Wizard/Techie is books-smart,
The Heart is good with psychology,
And the Muscle sticks to common sense when everyone else misses the most obvious solution
so the muscle would be the one guy to actually try opening the door to the prison if they were ever captured, and find out it was never locked?
Simon is the Brains of the Group in Alvin & The Chipmunks,Donatello is the Brains in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Kowalski is the Brains of the Group in Penguins Of Madagascar.
I think this was the way TMNT was made actually. (I only watch the 2012 reboot and Rise, with a bit of the 2003 on the side but still)
Leo is the leader, the one behind every plan, and also the one who will have to devise a plan during a mission if something unexpected happen.
Donnie, the smart guy, and he is as you say, books-smart. He is the one that usually finds the solution to the more complicated life or death problem. Especially the one that involves another alien's technology.
Mikey, the heart of the team or as I usually call him the emotional core of the team. He might not be as smart as Donnie or Leo to devise a plan to take the enemies' down. Hell, he might be the one that was in trouble in the first place. But, he is the one that usually keep the group together in tough situations, boosting the team's morale and sometimes even proves to be smarter and capable of solving a problem if he just try hard enough.
And if all else fails, we have Raph to kick some sense into the team. Even though all of his methods seem like pure brute force, most of the times, he's the one with the sense in the team. He will be the one to say how bad and idiotic it is to trust someone from the foot, or to let a bad guy go just because we are "not the same as them".
@@loveyphoenix494 so if it was Penguins Of Madagascar it would be
Skipper=Leader
Kowalski=Brains
Private=Heart and Rico=Muscle
@@loveyphoenix494 the TMNT Character and their Roles they were giver are perfect.Leonardo is the Leader,Donatello is the Brains,Raphael is the Muscle and Michelangelo the Heart.
I read a book where the smart guy was really fucking stupid, but he just had like, an intuitive knowledge of technology through his abilities
We love Himbo Smart Guy
I have seen that type of trope a lot. The guy is smart but due to some type of inexperience he acts like an idiot. It gets boring after a few times
Not himbo 💀
I mean if you’re into 40k that’s technically the Ork specialists, like their equivalent of engineers and doctors. They’re not smart by and large but they intuitively know how to do work in their specialization.
This is almost me, my friend group almost always goes with my ideas despite my proven ineptitude.
astolfo
My favorite version is the "Rube Goldberg hero," the one that is somewhat strong, but not strong enough to just faceroll the villains they fight, so instead they need to set up a complex series of conditions in which their relatively weaker powers are plenty to overcome the stronger foe. This is how Batman is used in his best JLA adventures. You need just enough power to not die while setting up the trap and to be able to activate the trap when the time comes, but the real strength is in setting up the unwinnable scenario for the opponent.
Shikamaru beating hidan
I think thats still a Xenatos
It's also, interestingly, a position almost every hero finds themselves in at some point.
Is that a Jojo's reference?
It’s funny cuz I make the argument that Superman isn’t the best JL member. It’s Batman… with prep time. I think the Arkham games does it’s best to showcase it because he takes down people so much stronger than him or the ones that have strong tech. It’s up to the player to figure it out. Brute force or superpowers help, but when you are going against a man that learns weaknesses to make it an even fight, giving him prep time is the most dangerous thing.
Abraham Van Helsing is the smart guy of the novel Dracula, he doesn't do any actual fighting, but does have knowledge of vampires and their weaknesses which proves to be useful on multiple occasions.
Add Mina to that group though. That bit where she figures out Dracula's location on pure reasoning and memory is so cool in my opinion. Also she casually memorized all the train hours between London and Wallachia which might be not as impressive as it would be in modern times, but still. I feel she's more the creative, idea smart person while Van Helsing is the books, knowledge smart person.
Also van Helsing doesn't actually know things right away, and even when he does exposit he's always guessing to some degree or another. Well, almost always
@@fullmoontales1749 That's probably also because there isn't that much known about vampires and Van Helsing knows all that is actually recorded about them.
@@dandelion_16 Yes, always fun when the smart guy runs on guesswork and having to work things out. Definitely defies 'Magical Genius'
@@fullmoontales1749 True, but that doesn't make him not a smart guy, just a badly/unrealistic one
I love the Lancer's face when the Smart Guy whips out the tazer xD
Just like, "Oh god, who let Smart Guy near the weapons locker again? We are in DangerTM"
I love when shows that get on in their years stop playing that for laughs and show the characters' skillsets actually broadening. The Smart Guy is sick of getting Princess Peach'd and takes a self defense class; the muscle studies hard to earn their GED; the lancer decides that the time has come for them to leave the comfort of the familiar and go lead their own band.
Who hopes Red talks about the “Pure of Heart” trope, the “Pure Hatred” trope, the “Taking Down The Tyrant” trope, or the “Apologizing” trope
The apologising trope? Sounds like me lmao...
"apologizing trope"
Does that include the Travis Scott Trope?
@@leonardorivelorivelo9253 the what?
i think the tyrant trope can be reposed as the rebels trope, which there is a video about :)
I hope for pure of heart. I see that a lot in anime
Red got noticed & her art was used in TV tropes. This gives me immense happiness for several reasons, the first of which being she deserves it.
Came looking for this comment. Loved seeing that make its way into the video at 1:03 as well. Deservedly cheeky.
omg wait really, where?
@@beeaggro2593 Sykan time stamped it.
She ends up on youtube’s front page every time she uploads and her duo-team channel has over a million subscribers.
I think she knows she’s been noticed.
@@master0fthearts894 nono like where was her art used on tvtropes
I love how on the graph, literally no one can drive except the Lancer. One can only imagine the terrified screaming of the group as the Lancer character drives them off a cliff with a smirk.
Have you perchance watched the first episode of Voltron: Legendary Defender? If not, I suggest you check it out...
@@whiteraven181 I have and the only reason why I came up with that scenario is because of Voltron
He's had enough dying alone.
Sound's like Kevin from Ben 10 after time skip.
Wait the ho ho ho lancer?
My pet peeve with smart guy characters is when writers give them some kind of "smart" trivia knowledge or "smart" hobby to show off how smart they are themselves, but if you have anything beyond surface levele knowledge of the field, you realize they don't know shit. As if their whole research was reading a single badly written article about it.
A great example of this being done well is the RDJ Sherlock Holmes movie. There's a great video on the chess game that he plays with Moriarty and why it's so clever. Look up "Lord Ravenscraft Sherlock Holmes Chess". It's really interesting.
Almost every Sheldon scene ever
@@davidholmes3728 I still remember Howard going 'Engineers are smart too, here i'll prove it and i'll ask you some questions'
The 'hardest' question according to Howard was 'How does the diameter of a pipe affect the flow rate of liquid'
like.... dude bigger pipe, means more liquid can flow through it at a time, smaller diameter means less. I know that and I failed most science based classes.
It might as well be. Most writers don't actually have any affinity for the sciences. They just need to "prove" the smart guy is smart. Futurama is exception, not the rule.
There's one book I read as a kid where the villain did this, and I'm still not sure whether the author did it by accident or on purpose. After taking out the strongest of the hero team, the villain tells the new leader "I've captured your king, and you've promoted a pawn to replace him." Which isn't how chess works - you can't actually do either of those things. But the thing is that the villain clearly thinks he's some kind of mastermind, but all he really has going for him is the fact that he knows how to steal the powers of others, and his plan amounts to "get the hero alone somehow and do that," repeated for each hero in the group. So it would be perfectly in character for him to misuse the chess metaphor, rather than for it to be a mistake by the author.
Ah yes, the character whose personality basically revolves around wearing glasses
I wear glasses too but let’s ignore that
So Shimpachi from Gintama? :P
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
This makes them automatically analogous to mclovin or Harry Potter too...
Don't forget about how hot they secretly are when they take them off.
How dare you attack my girl Velma like that.
One of my favorite examples of The Smart One is Erin Ruunaser, the Elemental Magus from a webcomic called Aurora, because his personality is mostly devoid of shows of intelligence (even his arrogance is mostly about his status), but he's consistently shown to have a plan and to figure out things quickly, and his intelligence informs a lot about this character (he really doesn't like when he's wrong, but he won't shy away from searching the truth even if he's skeptic from it).
In addition, despite being consistently shown as the most learned and logical, he's not always the one with the best grasp on the situation, as Falst, the Big Guy of the team, is more street-smart, and Kendal and Alinua, the Leader and the Lancer who both sub in for the Heart, have emotional intelligence and spiritual knowledge covered.
Man, if only I knew the author, I would love to congratulate them on their character work
If only
I haven’t read it yet, but I hear it should be very popular. It indeed would be very cool to know the author. Maybe someday.
Ah!! I love that comic too!! More people should really read it, it's fantastic.
Yes, everybody in Aurora manages to juggle the five-man tropes in engaging ways and every time a new character is added you wonder how the group survived without them before. The author truly deserves a publishing deal, whoever they may be.
@@measlyfurball37 (You do know who the creator is, right?)
God I love party comps. Everyone having a role is really cool and I love that you had Sokka as clips for the “Smart Guy”
Reminds me of the last time I played DnD, where everyone wanted to be the healer. Or rather, everyone had a healing spell except for one guy who thought he had a healing spell. Yeah, he found out that Mend was for mending fabric, and not wounds.
@@cooltrainervaultboy-39 Those outfits aren't cheap. Honestly, I think Mend is the most important spell in that party.
@@cooltrainervaultboy-39 ok my mind instantly whent to uberchaining in tf2 : in wich two medics can basically take out everything they want if pepole aren't quick or smart enough to run away , wich is the only situation in wich a team of just healers can work out
@@cooltrainervaultboy-39 Mend should help when someone rips the stitches.
@@osirisatot19 He's definitely the smartest, but because he has to rely on his brainpower all the time he gets exhausted and just shuts it off to do impulsive shit. After all the sleuthing at the library, he impulsively drinks cactus juice because his brain wants to go to sleep. I know a lot of really intelligent, hard-working people that are massive dumbasses outside of work because by that point in the evening their brains have given up. Also broing around with Aang turns Sokka into an idiot, and if you've ever been in a frat you know that they are 50 IQ points dumber in a group than they are individually
This makes me appreciate Azula from atla even more. She the equivalent of if Sokka had bending and wasn't restricted by morals. She is smart and powerful, making her extremely dangerous. And while she does have some hubris, she never gives into it. Her only weakness is that her missing morals also make her a lot of enemies. So while she is planning five steps ahead, she eventually has to consider so many enemies that there is no way for her to plan and scheme her way out. Meanwhile Sokka gets more and more allies, giving him more ways to plan ahead.
I may be miss remembering as I haven't watched ALTA in a while, but Azula was extremely hubris and went overboard with the "I'm better than you" shtick on serval different occasions.
Azula was a tactician but unlike Sokka who formed allies due to friendship and mutual respect, she formed hers through fear and subjugation. When it comes down to it, people fight passionately for those they love and respect rather than fear.
I'm not so sure. One of Sokka's greatest features is that he learns from his mistakes and from the people around him, Azula never does that. Azula honestly believes she's better than everyone else so why would she ever try to learn from them? If Azula were really a parallel of Sokka, I think she'd have been the one to figure out lightning redirection by studying scrolls about water benders.
I think she just didn’t have that much depth as a character for the majority of season 2 and only got an arc that could’ve been good but was really rushed towards the end of season 3. To me azula was always a persistent threat. She was incredibly powerful, but not powerful enough for things to feel super grim when she’s against the group, and she doesn’t go down easily so it never feels like she will be taken care of, and they only win the group can get is not losing to her, because she will come back
Ah Leverage, where the Mastermind does the Trope of Speed Chess while *actually* playing Speed Chess.
And the super hacker is a nerd who unironically loves star trek, video games and world of warcraft, and somehow isn't cringe. He still has personality beyond those things, and perfect chemistry with the rest of the cast.
@@benjaminc924 Let's be honest, almost all of them were pretty great characters, the only one we don't really see much of their actual character, was Sophie. We were never really conclusively and consistently given her real identity, or what she was like outside of running cons or _trying_ to act.
@@willparry530 I feel like, especially with her development in season 2, we did get a lot of characterisation from her? i agree that we see her acting a lot, so she doesn't get to be herself as much as the other characters on the job, but in all the Inbetween moments and even while conning we do get more characterisation than expected. personally, i feel like the character with the least development is hardison, although both Sophie abd Hardison get a lot of screentime/characterisation via their romance plots, and so don't stand as much on their own
@@Plotbunnyhunter Ehhh, her screen time even in season 2 is debatable. In the end we still don't even know her real name. At least with Elliot we know it's probably his real name, and that he has an estranged father, though we may not know why they are estranged.
@@willparry530 for 'Sophie' there was an in-universe excuse.
As everyone else in the main group, she is an extreme example of her role/expertise. (Possibly even slightly more so, as 'pretend you're someone else' is something the entire team does to some extent)
The 'has difficulty walking past people without picking their pocket'-parker equivalent would be 'even the personality familiar to closest friends is a lie' (see white collar's mozzie, or another Gina Bellman character: coupling's 'D'you know, I could get away with anything when I was my crazy twin Jane'-Jane)
While it 'makes sense', I agree it makes her the least-developed of the main cast.
(There are some interesting implications, but when you're 'the liar', pulling off a 'deep dive' is 'a Joker origin story'-levels of difficult)
I just realised Raven and Cyborg share the smart guy role for two different reasons: he's the tech, she's the mage.
Which makes me think: what if two characters shared the "smart guy" role but together only... like you have the Big Guy and the Heart, but when together they become the Smart Guy of the band.
Same if it's the Lancer and Leader; and when you think about it, it can be a "basic story" in itself: Leader and Lancer must put aside their differences and work together as "The Smart Guy" of the group.
I mean, that could make sense, the Big Guy has lots of thoughts, but can't exactly sort through them for the good ideas alone. That's where the Heart comes in, offering advice, but also recognizing that a lot of their plans are way better than what they could come up with
Neither is the smart guy alone, but together, they could probably figure out the plot in idle chatter.
its how its also debatable about who is really big guy as well...as raven is by all means the strongest...but that role is also shared with star fire and cyborg at various times.
Beast boy also shares the role of heart with Starfire and Robin can also be the weak and unskilled smart guy leader and tactician.
It like red said they aren't solely define by one role but actually fill several roles.
Street smart: Beast boy
Techie : Cyborg
The mage: Raven
Tactician: Robin
The whole team are pretty smart in their individual area of expertise. I dont think there was a designated smart guy in the team.
What about two smart guys that are put together and become idiots
@@pingdragonify
Well Cyborg usually because he was the tech guy and built all their equipment
would be so cool to see you talk about "enemy of my enemy" trope
where the protagonist joins forces with villains to defeat even bigger villains
I think this most often happens when either:
The first villain has already made a frienemy relationship with the heros, usually out of having an actual conversation/forced to help eachother (say prison break or survial situation).
Or villain 1 want to rule the world but villain 2 want to destroy it. Motives matter, a mafia boss will usually do something like pay back a debt or say "I'm defending my home, get over it" and the Hero usually has already been having a crisis about how they can't beat Villain 2 on their own.
Also bonus points when the 2 villains and the Hero are all mutual foils. Like Batman, Poison Ivy, and Joker. Batman is a hero balancing right with legal, Ivy is an exo terrorist (good motives bad actions), and Joker is just walking chaos and obsession. (I know better examples exist but this is an easy one)
Ahhh, the “Vader chucking Emperor” effect. Nothing more badass. Hell, whenever Doom joins up with the avengers cause the universe is on the line is always a treat. Can’t happen with the same villain too often though, or else it’s like they’re just faking being a bad guy or they’re just morally inconsistent. Or, and this is one of my favs: a delicious shade of grey, where they have strict moral codes that motivate them in positive ways every now and again.
@@jasonreed7522 Harry Dresden and Gentalman Johnny Macone.
Alien invasions are often good for that. In The Batman cartoon, Gordon pragmatically backs up the villains who escaped Arkham who were already in the middle of fighting the alien invaders. Joker mostly did it because only HE gets to terrorize Gotham. In the series finale of Justice League Unlimited, the "not spaced for mutiny" members of the Legion of Doom teamed up with the JL against Darkseid's full frontal invasion. In Reboot, the bad guys help the protags fend off an invasion of viruses from the net. At least before betraying the protags when it seems like the invasion is under control. Or when the lawful neutral Nova Corp fights alongside the chaotic good(?) Ravagers to fight off the lawful evil Ronin.
@@geraldgrenier8132 ^^
"What is niche and nerdy these days?"
Exactly. It's so niche that no one knows what it is. The niche have entered a secret society that will go mainstream in about 30-40 years.
Death Metal, black metal hardcore punk, D&D, comics
@@thomasffrench3639 nah, look at webtoon, everybody is all over those
@@thomasffrench3639 D&D is super popular nowadays
@@irok1 I mean the only person I know who has played D&D is my brother. I haven’t even played it.
I sure hope Hollow Knight becomes more mainstream. Even if everyone on earth liked that game it would still be underrated
I think it’d be cool to see the rest of the five-man-band archetype on this show. I mean, we already have The Loner for the Lancer, we just need the other three!
Don't forget about the powerhouse
We already got the strong guy and hero(paragon) though?
didn't we get a lancer video?
@@ILiekFishes yes we did!
They already made a lancer episode!!!
Not me with the "Random Trivia Facts" Guy
"Oh yeah this monument is magic! It was built by Agora, a sculptor who disappeared mysteriously a hundred years ago, alongside a prince!"
"Wait it's magic?"
"Yep!"
"Could you maybe elaborate on that?"
"I would, but I have no idea what it actually does, I just skimmed a fact book when I was twelve."
I feel called out
if I ever went to some magical adventure land, this would be me. I know the bare minimum required to be considered as smart, but anything beyond that is a mystery to me
Don't do this to me. I was that kid who just read random Wikipedia articles when board. I know about a ton of things with most of them having the depth of a puddle.
@@jonathantadlock-stein2023 That's me in real life.
I have no interest in knowing the details of things but I do want to know how shit functions.
So what I know about science is all rather surface level.
Chemistry, space, physics, evolution, etc.
But yea, been called smart all my life because of that even though it has little to do with intelligence. My parents made the usual mistake of calling me smart way too much that as a kid I even believed it. I'm not dumb but no, I'm not a smart kid, lol.
In my case I would remember the useful detail long after the window to use it strategically has closed.
I was hoping you'd bring up Entrapta, especially when discussing the frequent neurodivergence of the smart guy. She is very coded that way, from her hyperfixation on robots/tech, to her lack of social graces, etc. I think she's really well-written and the few characters who tend to dismiss her or get annoyed with her grow to appreciate her and how she expresses herself (I'm thinking of Scorpia's talk with Mermista about how to treat Entrapta better).
coded? pretty sure the director confirms it, I love Entrapta she's such an interesting character
@@artist0154 couldn't remember if she'd confirmed it or not, but that's even better! I love her too, she and Mermista are tied for my favorite princess
shes one of my favourite characters, peridot from steven universe as well
I personally found her one of the weaker characters, given how she easily moved over to the side of people that she knew full well conquered and killed most of the planet just so she could tinker with tech, some of it weapons that would then be set upon innocent people. I found it glaring in that regard, as if neurodivergent people have no moral compass.
@@martine5604 Entrapta was, in part, written by an autistic person. As an autistic person myself, I really appreciated that the sent her down that road and brought her back from it having learned that she needs to open up her tunnel vision and look at the bigger picture.
I know I can turn into a real jerk when I'm too focused on my special interests. I totally drop my personal life and hurt my relationships if I don't watch myself.
One of the reasons Sokka shines so much is because of the care they put into the world of Avatar. It's so easy in stories with worlds that involve different groups with inherent powers (Benders/Non-Benders, Mutants/Non Mutants, Quirks/Quirkless etc) to just give up on trying to balance it and simply have the more powerful group be the bad guy, the force to overcome, or just hands down better. The stories and conflicts never get resolved or devolve into one of the powerful groups fighting their own on behalf of the puny mortals.
Avatar was the first real show I had sesen that balanced this. Benders had an edge, but they aren't gods and can make the same mistakes. It's not the be-all-end-all of power, it's simply something that's added to that character's toolkit. Sokka is a tactical genius and it shows.
One good tip that I've found for writing small characters is to show more of their cleverness and less of their actual strategies. A good ratio is about 5:1.
Basically you just need to only show a few clever moments where they outwit their opponents, and build up to one big moment of utter brilliance.
This makes your audience think that their tiny plans are just as intricate as that one big moment.
Be warned that the big moment will actually need to be actually brilliant, for intended results.
You mean PEOPLE like more clever than inteligent characters because usually being clever dosnt require much than ideas and observation in comparison with just read a complex math equation that 70% of the public would be unable to underestand at all?
Wow, that sounded way more condecending than i intended. Which was nothig at all.
"Even D&D's gone mainstream. Wait, what _is_ niche and nerdy these days?"
Ah yes, the brilliant plan to destigmatize ourselves has gone according to schedule. Bring out the party favors; let's celebrate nerds no longer being defaulted to outsiders!
Coup is still nerdy, also Call of Cthulhu
What's nerdy is to lament how our favorite stories and hobbies have been watered down for the unwashed masses and wishing we could go back to the time when we were outcasts whose hobbies no one would touch with a ten-foot pole. At least back then, we hadn't lived long enough to see our beloved classics go down in flames. What's nerdy is walking away from 40K and desperately seeking shelter in the Battletech fandom as the barbaric money-grabbing cultural vandals bite and claw at the gates behind us. Now THAT'S nerdy.
@@jaffarebellion292 The masses are starting to learn. They're getting tired of messaging being shoved down their throats, and want to see the originals, not the twisted forms.
@@kennyholmes5196 I really am glad things are turning around, but when almost all the works I loved have already been bastardized and perverted, I can't help but wonder what will be left when all this is over. Ah well, there's always tabletop gaming. No matter how woke it gets, a group can always just ignore it and homebrew stuff to their hearts' content.
@@jaffarebellion292 Well, the Tolkien Fandom certainly seems like it'll be safe due purely to how dedicated their fanbase is. Marvel and DC both have Multiverses and Multiversal Resets every now and again to sweep away any unfortunate choices. Star Wars can be rescued using the World Between Worlds and the same tactic used to peeve all of the EU fans in declaring the bad stuff noncanon like how Disney declared the EU as Legends. Anime fans almost always disregard Live Action Adaptations as trash unless said adaptations are genuinely good and faithful to the source material. Dr. Who has the oh-so-common retcons on their side thanks to malleable time and being all about jaunting hither and thither in time and space.
Star Trek is screwed, though, even with parallel timelines; what they've done in Picard has ruined a major character of a key part of the series in their eyes.
"So original! No one has ever thought on making the genius a jerk before!"
Nice call! Jerk genius is so overused that it's pretty much its own trope.
Just checked TV Tropes and yup Insufferable Genius is its own trope
"Genius People are Jerks so if ill make this character a Jerk everyone will think hes smart, but to keep him likable without actually coming up with flaws ill just give him some martyr moments"
some get better… some don’t and are built like that because the writers wanted to add Sherlock Holmes aspects into them…
I can only imagine how much time it takes to write Jojos Bizarre Adventure cause literally every character in that manga/anima is unbelievably clever and it’s just a back and forth of characters pushing each other into corners and somehow getting out of them until the protagonist wins (usually)
Araki is just Big Brain like that
It's superficial intelligence; basic Aha! Gotcha! No real out maneuvering or chess type matches. It's like checkers with chess pieces, they look smart.
@@revanknight3202 Example of this being?
@@ascended8174 SPOILERS AHEAD YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED
So what I think is a good example of this is in the latter half of Jojo Golden Wind, where everyone switched bodies. At a certain point, they identified Bucciarati's body as Diavolo and confirmed that the body was unconscious, and Chariot Requiem was in front of them with the arrow. The smart move to make there would've been to kill "Diavolo" on the spot because it would've ruled out the dual personality thing from the start, but that's not how it played out. I may be wrong though
@@rouge-ish324 I'm having a hard time looking for this particular scene since the SCR part is a little long, but from what you're pointing out here, I wouldn't say it's an ass-pull moment like the guy above is talking about. I think the moments he means are more of times where they start pulling stuff out of nowhere with absolutely no foreshadowing to beat the opponent
Though I will counter with a good example of characters actually using logic and tactics; Jotaro vs Anubis.
Jotaro knows Anubis is inside the sword itself and possessing Polnareff, Jotaro can clearly see that Anubis' sword is broken, and Jotaro knows that Silver Chariot can match if not outspeed him without his armour. He tries to prevent SC from removing his armour by attacking aggressively, however he fails and after some distractions by Anubis using a bush and water fountain he manages to shed his armour and stab Anubis' sword into Jotaro's abdomen
But because Jotaro knows that Anubis' sword can be broken, while it's stabbed into him where Anubis can't move, he destroys it and wins the fight
Underappreciated fight IMO. Not as much blatant explaining and it makes sense how Jotaro reacts
"A lot of times, smart guy and big guy are a duo"
Teen Titans' Cyborg: "..."
Yes! Excellent shoutout!
Funny how the cyborg is half smart guy half big guy
Well, Cyborg is the "techie" smart guy of the group.
While Raven is the "mage" smart guy.
Plus I think Robin fits in with the "Street-smart" guy pretty well while mainly being the "leader" type.
As mentioned, a lot of times the team menbers are a bit of a mix of many types to give them more dimensions, so to speak.
NOBODY MENTIONED BEAST BOY AND YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED
Starfire is stronger…
I kinda wish you mentioned the emotional gut punch that can happen when a tactician smart guy, who has come up with excellent plans for as long as he/she has been in the party, is stuck in a bad situation with the rest of the cast (maybe they got ambushed by a large group of evil minions) and is completely unable to come up with a plan.
Another check off the list on avatar. This happens in the finale
Sokka and toph are both hanging off an airship with fire nation soldiers just above them. Sokka being the tactician and the comic relief, is in checkmate and is unable to come up with anything to save them. He immediately accepts that it's the end for the both of them
@@wilfweNightsky I'll always remember when boomerang didn't come back....
... but Suki did.
Yesss, when the rest of the group has to team up and save them!
Or they come up with a plan but it fails because the villains pull out unknown powers. Goes from "I got this guys" to this is "impossibly hopeless" in and instant. And because the smart tactician is the one saying it the hopeless, the statement carries a lot of weight.
Log horizon has a great example of this when they go into a boss fight with proven method learning and taking them down, just to get wiped out by 3 bosses instead of 1.
@@wilfweNightsky There's also the moment during the Day Of Black Sun when the team realizes the invasion plan was compromised and they've been led into a trap.
Excellent neurodivergent smart guy: Entrapta in She Ra (2018). She's so focused on first ones tech and building robots, so focused on what she CAN do that she doesn't stop to think about if she should, and when she realizes what she's done she tries to fix it by using what she knows: tech. She even tells the other princesses that she KNOWS she messed up, but she's not good at talking to people so she tried to help them the only way she knows how. That speech hit hard, as an autistic person. It was nice to see that side of things actually brought up and confronted.
The second she said "The Mastermind" my mind inmediately went to leverage, and then the video used it as an example. This thing is incredibly well structured holy shit.
Not always, but oh my word, you have to watch an episode like three or four times, or sit down and diagram it, before you see the plot holes. That's _still_ incredible craftsmanship, some plots will have holes if you put them on a TV show, no matter what, to hide them that well is exemplary
As someone who likes writing I can easily admit that the whole “give the exposition role to the smart guy” thing is a very very easy trap to fall into
To be fair they _are_ the one most likely to know what you want the audience to know XD
Hence the trap being easy, yes.
great opportunity for some plottwists and other shenanigans by having all exposition delivered by the distinctly not smart guys, or the smart guy just being wrong
“Trap” implies a negative connotation, but that aspect of the trope isn’t necessarily a bad thing!
@@MerkhVision no it isn't, but it can very easily devolve into the smart guy's only personality trait being the exposition dumper, which is a bad thing
it's best if every character - smart guy included - is a character, not a tool
There are ways you can make the smart guy the source of exposition and lore, but it has to be appropriate for the situation and scene they’re in.
I suppose one example where exposition dumps could be logical is if the smart guy memorizes books and scripts, so when they go into a ramble of exposition then he can chalk it up to simply recalling a memorized paragraph from a book. But that would be very specific to a character who has a photographic memory, and doesn’t apply to all smart guy characters.
Again, it’s key to make it logically consistent to the character and setting to provide the reader with extra details or lore, such as them explaining the powers/weaknesses of a foe when fighting said foe to an unfamiliar/inexperienced character.
"Has Netflix" as a character trait sounds like a random Stand stat.
it's a stand
Or put another way: can not cast boolean to integer or float.
How can you have half a netflix?
@@doctormo Pay for it by the month, and only do so for June, July, and August?
@@kevinr.9733 That's half a netflix period, not half a netflix.
@@doctormo live in a country with alot of region blocked content and bad internet
You know, one of the things I always noticed about Sokka in Avatar is sometimes people get really upset when you suggest that he is the smart guy. People are like "no he's the comedic relief", "he's the butt of the joke", "he's not smart he's funny". And I'm over here like can he not be both? Can one not be smart and funny?
I wonder if it's because his smarts seem to be kinda hands-on ones, and don't seem to include much comprehension of appropriate behavior...? I'd compare him to Pippin in LOTR movies: he isn't totally stupid but he's inexperienced, seems to do a lot of stuff we'd describe as "dumb" or "inappropriate to context" (often just cos of being bored or curious), has some attitudes that reeeeally need adjusting (think Sokka vs anyone female) and lacks foresight. These aren't usually traits we'd associate with a wise person, so he can come across as a dumb comic relief character despite having some good applied-problem-solving capabilities?
That's weird. I've never seen people complain that he isn't the smart guy. I thought most of the fans already accepted that he is the brains in the team
@@100lovenana maybe these people are few and far between 🤷 but I once got into a full hour argument about it
He’s literally the ideas guy lol
I mean the thing about avatar just in general is that people seem to be strongly married to whatever opinion they have about the shows, probably because most watched them as children or teens so have a lot of nostalgia for it.
this has inspired me to write about a group of heroes who are incapable of algebra or even long division because they all kept skipping school to keep training and it keeps being a problem until they 'recruit' a totally normal college student to solve the math problems
I need that in my life rn. bonus points if the college student has no clue what's going on and is going for an internship or smth xD
Shall we talk about Leverage?
In Leverage, EVERY character is EVERY member of the 5 Man Band in different episodes, and they’re often more than one member in a single episode.
Case Study: Eliot Spencer.
On the surface, Eliot is the Big Guy. His job description is literally: Hitter.
However. He’s also incredibly smart when it comes to combat and combat related activities. “It’s a very distinctive ___________.”
He’s also the Lancer, occasionally the Leader when the stakes are life and death, and the Heart in a group of people with wildly varying degrees of skill in interpersonal interactions.
Case Study: Nate Ford.
He’s the Leader. Obviously. But he’s occasionally the Lancer when an episode is centred around another character, he’s the Smart guy, given his role as Mastermind, he’s the Heart when necessary or when kids are the victims of their marks, and he’s occasionally the Big Guy when Eliot’s not around.
See also: Alec Hardison, Sophie Devereaux, and Parker.
They all have their areas of expertise, and they all get to use their expertise in each episode. But they also grow and change and develop over the course of the series. Without going into Spoiler territory, Hardison’s relationships with Parker and Eliot are the backbone of the show. And I adore Parker’s relationship with Nate.
It’s almost as if these fictional characters were written to reflect the multi-dimensional nature of human beings. No one is just One Thing.
Was going to write a similar comment, but I saw yours, which is way more well said that what I would have put. Best example of Nate being the smart guy has to be when he made a guy bleed with psychology. (The Order 23 Job)
This is also what makes the Leverage revival work -- the returning characters (and even the one doing part-time work) have clearly kept building and learning. They haven't been static since we last saw them, and their new selves (selves that are Still Changing, bless the writers!) are a fascinating mix of old and new.
Sophie is another interesting case study, in that she follows what's become a more common trend of combining the Lancer and the Heart into one character. She's very definitely the Lancer, both in the sense of being the de facto second-in-command and being the one who can challenge or call out Nate far more than anyone else. At the same time, she clearly fills the Heart role. In addition to being the love interest for Nate (the Leader), she is clearly the emotional center of the team. Not only do we see her doing things like trying to help Parker with her social skills and face up to her feelings for Hardison, we clearly see the impact on the rest of the team when she's not there for most of season 2 - the entire team, particularly Nate, spin off the rails emotionally and get themselves into serious trouble.
@@raqsasim ^^
"Every character has a space of situations they're good at handling, and a space of situations they're bad at handling."
I was about to make a joke about Mary Sues, but I just realized, it even applies to them -- they're good at handling praise or being the only reason the plot resolves, and bad at generating interesting plots or character interactions.
Yea, a lot of sues are actually, ironically, terrible at any form of problem solving, because all problems they face end up getting solved through deus ex machina. I could actually see it being an interesting premise that a character suddenly loses the special plot protection. Like, say, some supernatural entity blesses the protagonist with Good fortune until they turn twenty, prior to which everything just sort of... Worked out for them, but now they have to learn to navigate actual problems that they need to solve.
@@zoro115-s6b Larry Niven's Ringworld explores what happens when one of your secondary characters is a Mary Sue. Her main character trait is extreme hereditary luck.
NAH. Nobody cares if a male character is like this. It’s exclusively used to knock female characters, and is often applied ANYWAY to female characters who are nuanced in personality and/or skillsets.
..like. Example? Literally every “classic” Male Stoic or Lonewolf “hero” is bland af and often an asshole but Ofc Hypercompenent to “back up” that “he’s fine/better alone” this and “completely 100% justified for treating people like shit and being a jerk” that.
Long live the so-called “Mary Sues.”
@@anonymousfellow8879 The Male characters You're describing are also terrible, they just don't trigger the vocal neckbeards.
@@anonymousfellow8879 "exclusively used to knock female characters" technically your right since the term for male characters is Gary Stu....
But I can disprove the intention of what your saying with one word, Kirito.
About half of the people I know (that have seen SAO) don't like it and the criticism always starts with Kirito is a Gary Stu (though he isn't a jerk like many so many of the other textbook examples).
Plenty of thoughts on this topic!
Ironically enough, I've found Smart characters to be the easiest to write for, particularly as protagonists. When you have a character that is smart, you also have a character that can slowly try to overcome their weaknesses by amping up their strength. My most fun character development arc was turning a Smart Girl normal human into a heroine by the adventures she was thrown into, while a Powerhouse veteran tried to win time by fighting the biggest and baddest threat in the meantime.
And indeed, smart characters can easily become leaders, Twilight Sparkle fills the leader archetype AND the Smart archetype. She serves as both exposition and problem-solving, but she still has flaws and affection that makes her a loveable character. She loves her friends, she is highly moral, but is hilariously obsessed with the topics she loves and gets desperate when thrown into stuff outside of her field.
And... something else I also noticed in old writing, and some disturbingly new writing, is how this archetype has the danger of falling into Anti-Intellectualism. When works only display Smart characters as subservient, rude, asocial, or villainous, it kind of paints intelligence as something secondary or even tertiary in importance, while telling people intelligence is a flaw or even evil, while dumbness is somehow noble.
To me, smart characters are fascinating, and it kind of gives me hope that they are slowly coming to be portrayed more positively, and can even be allowed to be protagonists of their own. That said, when you have works like Sherlock or The Big Bang Theory, that tells you there's still that stigma of being a "nerd" that sticks even now.
Also, a very easy pitfall to fall in is writing a character "Smarter than the Author" (Author meaning the full writing team).
This is most obvious in Anime where someone has an IQ of 5000 and says things that are either non-sequiters or blatently untrue. (Essentially the whole pulling conclusions out of thin air like "i know where you are hiding because the leaf fell 2in left of where it should have" or saying something about high level physics that is fundamentally the same as 2+3 = 6 except with bigger words and harder concepts)
When this happens it can be quite jarring and ruin suspension of disbelief because someone just said that they run through walls by "Vibrating at the same frequency as air" (Looking at you Flash) like, first of all if that worked then air would pass right through concrete walls like they didn't exist, ignoring all of the math and physics that can be done to show how no superhero has given a valid explanation for running through walls yet.
@@jasonreed7522 the wall is too slow, and couldnt catch them, done, enjoy!
@@jasonreed7522 We also have the very common writing crutch of showing how supersmart a character is - often done with robotic characters but also sometimes with living ones that need to be quickly conveyed to the audience as geniuses) - by having them give ridiculously overspecific odds (eg. "the probability of this plan failng is 93.4275%") in situations where that probability would be blatantly impossible to even approximate, let alone calculate to that degree of accuracy, with just how many millions of variables there are to account for.
", it kind of paints intelligence as something secondary or even tertiary in importance, while telling people intelligence is a flaw or even evil, while dumbness is somehow noble." Try talking to a guitarist about music theory, LOL
@@jasonreed7522 They tend to ignore that while yes, atoms have a lot of "empty space" in them in terms of actual substance, there are still all the electrical fields and other electrostatic forces/bonds holding them together, which is what makes something "solid". So yes, it might be physically possible to phase through a wall, you'd most likely just end up creating a massive explosion. Since essentially you'd be creating a mini particle accelerator/fusion reactor, with many of your particles smashing into/through the particles of the wall.
I love that Sokka covers a lot of those sub-types of smart guy and he's still one of the most well written characters ever
I wrote a character in a superhero/supervillain years ago called "Omnibus". He was connected to every alternate version of himself across the multiverse, but only subconsciously. A side effect of this was a kind of cosmic awareness: he had the potential not only to know everything every version of him knows, but the threads connecting himselves/herselves/themselves (English doesn't have a good word for multiple selves) "tune in" these selves to cosmic structures. The obvious downside to knowing something about everything, or everything about something, is that a basically human mind can't stand up to that kind of input. His safeguard: he could only tap into the knowledge if *someone* *else* asked him a question. This kept him from falling down the rabbit hole of all the things he could know by making the ability to tap into infinite knowledge external to the person with the ability.
I kind of got a kick out of the idea of a character who was potentially incredibly powerful, but was effectively only as good as the questions he was asked.
So basically rimuru
this owns so much though omg
I have a similar character named "Agen Rall-Pale" as an NPC in my D&D campaign, although maybe a bit less powerful. His eyes look like the void of space - black with stars shining in them. He has the ability to see alternate dimensions and the potential futures/actions of himself and others. This has led to him becoming quite aloof and he struggles with living in the moment, because he can see so many possibilities ahead of him.
That's a very cool and original way to work it! Not too Deus ex machina, still very powerful, good safeguard. I'm no writer or writing teacher but you get full marks from me 👍🏻
So he was a little like the Smart Guy version of He-Man: Always as smart/strong as he needs to be.
"What is nerdy nowadays?"
Being a tech millionaire at 21.
No, that’s just being the only child of a tech billionaire.
NERRRRRRRRDDDDDDDD! 😂
Can't wait for red to talk about the Twins trope
Whether they're identical or not, mirror versions of eachother or total opposites, or heck maybe its just a "you look like me wanna switch places cuz our lives currently suck" situation, its a really interesting trope to me
Oh boy, that would bring up other sub-tropes like the evil twin or the "Prince and Pauper" situation of exchanging identities. Sooo many examples are appearing in my head: the Pines twins (Gravity Falls), Starfire and Blackfire, the original Prince and the Pauper, the Sonozaki sisters (Higurashi), etc.
@@100lovenana Are Starfire and Blackfire twins? I thought Blackfire was older.
Do you mean actual twins, or two people that happen to look exactly alike and decide to trade life for whatever reason? Those two are very different
Now I kinda want a story about a story about what at the start looks like a stereotypical tough guy smart guy duo, with the antagonist thinking so too, leading to the antagonist try to use it against the duo. Only it to be revealed that they are both adept at the others proficiency do to their time spent together. Like the "Smart guy" beating the shit out of the goons with the motherboard, with surprising strength, because he has trained with the "tough guy" for just such an occasion, while the "thought guy" takes over the energy network of the station with the knowledge he gained from spending time with the "smart guy" while he was tinkering.
That typo is somehow fitting.
When thinking about these kind of duos this sounds like the most logical option/result, smart and strong spending so much time together that they both learnt from each other's perspective and the way they approach to things
Comic stories "Nerd and Jock" are partially about this)
When Red mentioned how writing a neurodivergent-coded smart guy character isn’t inherently bad, I Immediately thought of Marcy Wu from Amphibia. She’s heavily neurodivergent coded (unintentionally, somehow) and definitely the team “smart guy,” and it feels like the fandom collectively decided she was our new favorite character within minutes of her introduction
In watch dogs 2, they had a hacker on their squad named hawt sauce that was on the spectrum. He was awesome
I immediately thought of Marcy when the picture for “tactician” showed someone playing chess, and she’s definitely my favorite character in the show, partially because she’s a huge nerd. She’s also just a really good balance to the other characters in general, because as much as I love Anne, Sprig, and the others, they aren’t they best in the intelligence department. She’s also just written really well in my opinion.
I love Marcy!
Lmao no one knows who josh is
Just the fact that they unintentionally hit the nail on the head, like they even got the dinosaur arm position down
Dr. Stone is a great example of a protagonist focused entirely on brains, lacking entirely in the brawn department.
I think I have seen other shows with similar concept. Don't remember right now😓
Don't forget Jimmy Neutron.
Senku is honestly one of my favorite protagonists
@@mysteriousman678 Agreed Also, I like how Dr. Stone really feels more "genuine" than Re: Zero. As in "the protagonist is utterly weaker physically in comparison to everyone and the story keeps making that clear" (borth protagonists are even voiced by the same seiyuu).
But unlike re: zero that sometimes feel too mean spirited (and tries to supposedly have its cake and eat it by saying "subaru is actually atheltic enough. is just that he is a normal fish in a big pond where he is as strong as children"; and not to mention how it later tries to say subaru is also dumb and has to improvise in other areas), dr. stone feels more genuine bcause it has more focus in the actual brains and treats the main character with more respesct while still portraying senku in a charismatic way
@@ianr.navahuber2195 But Re:Zero never had Subaru be a "brains" character, his strength was always emphasized to lie in his almost unbreakable will. Subaru is supposed to be just an average guy that doesn't give up, while Senku is supposed to be an intellectual powerhouse.
Anybody else notice that the entire time she was talking about the Smart Guy being relegated to an exposition machine the clips were laser focused on Endgame Hulk?
Yeah. She (for some reason) has a huge hate-boner for the Avengers films.
well yeh, even banner himself straight states this in ragnarock, to which thor basically says "yeh, so?". hes essentially relegated to being a mcguffin until his allotted 10 minutes of either smashing stuff or thinking stuff. he literally has less character than the iron man suit/ jarvis
11:02 I had this issue back when I was coming up with plans for smart characters in my stories. What helped me was realising that you the writer WILL eventually find the solution, it'll just take longer than the character. The brilliance isn't thinking of something no human could concieve. They're just able to put the pieces together far quicker than most. Figuring out in minutes what normal people take hours to realise.
Could it be that Leverage had 5 smart guy characters but with diferent smart guy traits mixed with all the other traits in different levels? That's so cool!!
Yep. They are all really damn smart at what they do and just smart in general. In the pilot they even reference that, when Parker says she's really good at one thing but Nate is really good at a lot of things...one of my favorite things about the show is how they all grow to be better at a lot of things by the end, so much so that Parker becomes the Mastermind.
As a neurodivergent person myself (whose special interest is the entire field of worldbuilding and storycrafting) I almost always end up making the Smart Guy or the Heart (or both) neurodivergent as well. Sometimes by accident, usually on purpose in the case of the Smart Guy because it gives me an excuse to let my brain relax and not get hung up on how a neurotypical person would react/respond. And because the idea of, "I had to work Really Hard to understand [physics/people/magic/emotions] and overshot," makes sense to me.
(Allow me to infodump, since we're talking neurodivergence and character tropes, and I am indeed a Meganerd for this kind of thing)
One of the other things I love doing with Smart Guys (and intelligent characters in general) is purposefully defining what kind of smart they are. Like, are they "nature" smart where they can tell you which way north is on a moment's notice or figure out what the weather is going to do? (Which is what I am, so these characters are very easy for me to write.) Are they people smart? Self smart? Are they musically or artistically smart? Spatially smart? Kinesthetically smart? (Aka possessing of a very accurate and trustworthy muscle memory.) Linguistic, logical, strategic, etc... there are a LOT of different kinds of "smart" and I tend to split up them up when considering party balance as well. That way I know A) if there is some skill overlap, they might not apply those skills in the same way because their focuses are different, and B) I might always have a "best at [_]" and a "second-best at [_]" to call on for certain scenarios if the best-at character is gone for some reason.
Also LEVERAAAGE!!! Always love a Leverage B-roll. :D
the Leader(Skipper,Leonardo)
the Brains(Kowalski,Donatello)
the Muscle(Rico,Raphael)
the Heart(Private,Michelangelo)
Surprised you didn't give a shout out to Entrapta from She-Ra. I really appreciated how she was clearly written as neurodivergent without diagnosing her specifically, and how her antics and lack of social skills, while definitely a problem when working in a group and grating for her friends at times, is never made out to make her a bad or immoral person - after all, it's not entirely her fault. She switches to the "evil" side because she's genuinely more interested in technology than whatever political struggle is going on, but still regrets it and wants to be there for her friends - she's not emotionless. Her atypical thinking is an asset far more than it's detrimental, and she even manages to befriend the BBEG, a feat that probably wouldn't have been possible for anyone else.
she’s honestly one big mood to me. She’s my favorite cause she’s so darn relatable.
Yeah, I talked a bit about it in some other comment, but I absilutely loved how they portrayed her. They both show how she's perceived negatively by others, but make it relatively easy to relate to relate to why she does what she does. And, over time, she manages to better express herself and be better understood.
Besides, I honestly love her passion for understanding what the hell dictates the rules of the world, and how to mess up with them in all sorts of glorious (but dangerous) ways.
What's the BBEG?
@@AskMia411 Big Bad Evil Guy
@@marwick1413 oooh, I'm just used to calling them the big bad.
I dunno about Han and Chewie for this trope. Chewie, the big guy, generally shows WAY more intelligence than Han does
Well, I think Hans is actually in the "Street-Smart" sub-trope. While Chewy may show more intelligence in some situations (particularly combat), Hans knows how to deal with people better and is knowledgable in the black market and criminal relations stuff.
They share both roles
@@kaitlinowens2714 I'm with Kaitlin on this one. They tend to switch off, often because Han, at least in movies and TV episodes, is shown as being overconfident and unable to tell when he _doesn't_ know what he's doing, which is a real-life pitfall for smart guys. Chewbacca is more of a quietly-competent character, and of course, a Big Guy... AFAIK it's actually unclear whether Chewie isn't very good at engineering repairs, or if Han just thinks Chewie is.
As an autistic person, I really appreciate how respectful you are when you talk about certain tropes that come off as ableist. It's really refreshing and I can't tell you how nice it is to hear, so thank you c:
Seconded!
Thirded!
Fourthed!
Fifthed!
Sixthed
When you started talking about autism, it felt sooo relatable. My father always gets annoyed when I start talking about prehistoric lifeforms.
It's okay, I appreciate the giant insects, primordial soup and large toothed cats. Also the giant feathery bird monsters.
Same but replace prehistoric animals with plants.
Serious question: what's your favorite prehistoric lifeform and why? I've only dipped my toes into prehistoric plant and animal life and would love to learn more.
My brother's autisic. We've formed a balance of me letting him ramble about his thing for a bit, then I let him know it's time to move on and we talk about other stuff. Even if I really don't care, I try to let him have his time because I know how important it is to him, and it's part of him processing his thoughts. Because he knows I'll let him ramble again some other time he's not upset by having to move on. When he interacts with others I've been trying to help him do the same on his own, talk about it only for a bit then let the conversation move on to other things so other people can talk about the things they love too. I know he's never going to fully grasp things like how the time and place and person effect what's an appropriate conversation topic, so I'm hoping that doing things this way will at least cut down on people getting automatically annoyed when he talks. He's such an amazing guy, I don't like it when people shut him down like that just because he doesn't communicate the same way.
@@SharmClucas that is the sweetest thing
I was just sitting through the whole 'smart guy on the spectrum' section like
"Talk about Entrapta talk about Entrapta damnit!"
I was waiting for that too. I love Entrapta.
7:15 I love the Six of Crows and Crooked Kingdom having the ‘Smart Guy’ as the Leader too, Kaz is really effective.
For the neurodivergent smart guy role, I found Entrapta from the recent She-Ra reboot to be a positive example of the trope. She's on the autistic spectrum and hyper focused on technology to the point that she tends to be morally neutral. At the same time, she acknowledges her difficulties with understanding interpersonal communications yet frequently strives to overcome that perceived failing. She's not a jerk, she just doesn't get how she affects others at times. Her arc is even centered on overcoming her fixations to focus on helping the friends she's made. Most importantly, she shows herself to be a full character, showing empathy to those dealing with issues she can relate to, developing relationships, and even acting kinda horny at times. Not a fighter by any stretch, but by the end she's evolved enough to take on elements of the heart role where certain other characters are concerned.
i absolutely love that she used three separate characters from the Leverage five man band as examples of subsets of the smart guy. my heart is happy
Honestly was waiting for Parker to pop up when she referenced the neurodivergent smart guy but yep, I was gleeful watching this and seeing all my babies.
THANK YOU for mentioning the whole iffiness of other characters making fun of the Smart Guy's interests, that was always a trope that bothered me in otherwise fine stories.
But like they are nerds so they deserve it
@@seanrobertson3094 Nerds or not, picking on then is not cool.
My favorite neurodivergent "Smart Guy" is Futaba from Persona 5. She's very nd-coded and her English voice actress has said she believe the character is on the autism spectrum. But she was never really portrayed as rude or antisocial, most of her social difficulties and lack of friends (beyond the Phantom Thieves of course) come from the fact that she was severely traumatized when she was blamed for her mother's death and only now is healing from being a suicidal shut-in. Her confidant focuses on trying to get back out there to help this healing process and I think it's really interesting that they explored how she was affected by being different and then traumatized and they didn't make her any less capable because of that.
The smart guys are one of my favorite archetypes, mostly because of the mage smart guy. As someone who was really not that physically active as a kid, I always found them really cool! Not only do they help their team with their intelligence but they are also powerful enough to defeat villains, sometimes on their own. Bonus points if the villain team also has a smart guy and both of them later become rivals or even frenemies of some sort.
Shoutout to Spud from American Dragon: Jake Long, who is eventually revealed to be an absolute genius, but he hates the expectations that come with that so he pretends to be as dumb as humanly possible. Also, shoutout to Sly 3 for basically being one giant examination of how smart guys relate to leaders/heroes.
Bentley is a fantastic example of the trope, especially considering where his character goes with the introduction of Penelope. They're both such fun extrapolations of the trope.
@@TheWatcher51393 And then they never made a fourth game that completely ruined her character.
@@Bobb11881 None that I can recall anyway... there is no war in Ba Sing Se.
@@TheWatcher51393 I 100% agree with this, Bentley is my favorite character in the Sly games and it’s really cool seeing how far he developed. He went from a turtle that was scared of going out on the field on mission and being on the side to a team member that may be scared, but goes onto the field with his friends despite what happened to him in the second game.
Also making Sly 3 interesting was that the villain is a dark foil of Bentley: the former Smart Guy of Sly's father's team who went full villain out of jealous and is confused that Bentley hasn't done the same.
Ha I was waiting for Entrapta to be shown, especially when you were talking about how a neurodivergent character can be hyperfixated on something. She's not a bad person, but a lot of other characters think she is, because she's so hyperfixated on her robots that she doesn't see a lot of social cues.
Same!
Watching everyone literally drag her around on a leash was one of the most uncomfortable things ever put to animation
She is actually neurodivergent in the semi canon way that it’s only mentioned outside the show
Even Glimmer?
@@aformofmatter8913 They put Peridot on a leash too.
Reminds me of a buddy's story idea where one of the characters he describes as "The Rock, John Cena, and Dave Bautista all mixed together in a protein shake blender" but was actually a (technical) pacifist high-class noble who got that built because he was sickly as a child and thus trained and exercised alot to give his body the strength and stamina to be able to read and study more. Thus in spite of looking like the Big Guy he filled the Smart Guy role instead due to his culture, book-learning, and preferences for nonviolent solutions (the Big Guy role was filled by a barbarian amazon warrior who is as tall as him and his childhood sweetheart who had a running gag as "Ms. Anti-Exposition" who would sarcastically interrupt and summarize his info-dump technobabble).
My favourite use of the "smart guy" trope is Timothy Zahn's Thrawn books. Literally every important character could be seen as a "smart guy" in other stories but in Zahn's work, being smart is just a prerequisite. Instead, they all fill another role in addition to being the "smart guy" in their area of expertise.
Brains:Donatello(Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles),Kowalski(Penguins Of Madagascar) and Simon(Alvin & The Chipmunks).
"what is niche and nerdy these days?" one thing that comes to mind is a hobby I have called "non-professional developer" where the a someone makes a video game, not really with the intent of selling it, but just for fun.
This gets an extra layer of nerdiness when it's for some obsolete platform. making a new game for an older system, especially one that's no long supported by it's manufacturer, requires quite a high level of nerdiness.
for example people still make games for the Game Boy Advanced, which is insane but impressive.
This kind of made me think about Tulip from Infinity Train.
I like the smart guy because they’re typically the ones who can hold their own against the group if and when they turn evil. The leader typically never turns evil, and when any of the others do it’s typically more out of emotion. When the smart guy does evil it comes from a logical standpoint and more well thought out.
When you said Smart Guy I was thinking of
Donatello from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Kowalski from Penguins Of Madagascar
Simon from Alvin & The Chipmunks
@@ginrod9392 God I miss kowalski
@@chasecollins3263 What about Donatello from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles or Simon from Alvin & The Chipmunks?.
@@ginrod9392 Donatello was a bit before my time and I remember simon fondly.
@@chasecollins3263 Yeah the TMNT came out in ‘84 and Alvin & The Chipmunks came out in ‘58,but the Animated TV Show came out in ‘83 and the Penguins weren’t introduced until ‘05.
I appreciate in Digimon Adventure that Izzy, the group’s smart guy, is often pretty valued especially by the hot-headed leader Tai. When Tai is officially recognized as the leader to solve a problem, the first thing he does is trust Izzy to solve it since that is in Izzy’s wheelhouse. He and Izzy often seem to work together: getting medicine, battling on the Internet, and coordinating upgrades to their Digimon fighting tech. Then in the reboot that brought the kids to the modern era, Tai thought Izzy’s tablet and programming knowledge was cool. It’s just refreshing to see the adventurous and brash character acknowledge the strengths of the smart guy especially when the smart guy is just a typical nerd.
TH-camr Telltale made a video that really, really got me thinking:
Pastor Plans To FLOOD Elections With "Patriot Pastors"
If you have any interest in Science, Atheism, Rationality,
please watch till the end-speech and consider why I, some Random,
went out of his way to ask you about it.
For extra-context: Another end-speech (but also the whole video) of Professor Daves video about the ‚Discovery Institute’, should maybe give you Hints for hte bigger Picture of Religions relationships with Science and Politics.
the fact that you used the dub names gave me tuberculosis, but you’re absolutely correct
Digimon was SO GOOD with all these tropes, especially for how each time that one got played straight, it would also be subverted, or subverted and THEN played straight in a different context…
I'm really glad to see some Leverage love here, and the realization that like..the entire team of Leverage has Smart Guy in one way or another. Nate and Hardison have it Mained, while Sophie, Eliot, and Parker all have like, a subclass of Smart Guy.
Yeah, thought something along that line too ^^
Yup,
been going 'but that would mean this role is filled by x, that's not the same person as 2 sentences ago'
with less frustration, when Red pointed out 'not strictly by 5-man-band-rules' was her point there.
If we were to name the 'classical band', it's undeniably Hardison.
- the big-guy/smart-guy banter dynamic with Elliot: check.
- the 'blueprint-fairy': check (with the episode that starts with that title, handily tackling the 'exposition-guy, if done poorly'-point)
- the exposition-guy: check runs the presentation (though I always presume Nate has already seen it)
- the 'has a genuine risk of (thinking they can) take over as leader': check (also a fun episode)
With the biggest hurdle in 'the classic' being parker as the heart. While her childlike impulsiveness and stress at social interactions, make her the moral center that keeps the rest check (Despite how Nate was recruited for that purpose), the 'can handle the social encounters' is absolutely her greatest weakness
But indeed, they all have the 'experts in their own fields, occasional brilliance' I would put Elliot in the 'have it Mained'-category as well.
While 'know the team'/'the chess-player'-tactician is undeniably Nate.
I definitely wouldn't put Elliot 'it is a very distinctive X' Spencer below him.
For every 'worked in X security' Nate can throw, Elliot has a 'dated X-employee'
The main difference is, Nate consistently shows it, so is expected to do so.
Maggie: “You know, people underestimate you Eliot.”
Nate: "That’s kinda the point."
I loved hearing Red talk about the problems with painting smart guys as neurodivergent jerks because neurotypical people don't get us. Also love the Gravity Falls.
For real. She got to that and I wanted to scream "SHELDON!" at my laptop. (I hate Sheldon. I don't want to know he exists. But I can't forget him.)
@@lysanamcmillan7972 I am in an unfortunate position with Sheldon. I realize that he is terrible autistic representation; but at the same time, he was the first bit of representation I got and I kind of latched on to him. I am slowly peeling away, especially now that I see how bad it is, but it's still hard for me.
The thing is, it kind of is an obvious connection for hyperfication is one of the best ways to become highly competend and knowlagable concerning a topic or field. All aces have some level of obcession with their field of expertise or they would not have gotten to the point of mastery . . . . but yes, absolutly people could put a hell of a lot more effort into wellrounded and layered portrails there . . .
A good one in my eyes is Spencer Reid from Criminal Minds, socialy often clueless, extreamly competend in some areas and alienating himself with it, but that is not all. Once getting used to him, they all love him fiercly and for good reason. He is very compassionate once he finds something to latch onto and cares deeply. He is selfless and makes an effort to get things that do not come naturaly to him to bond with those he cares about and help people, he is so much more than just a neurodiverse smartass.
(and the most beloved character of the show)
@@rubyrangitsch5248 yeh he sucks but its on the writers not the actor because the actor actually has autism idk why they didn’t just get him to be himself with a lot of if
@@rubyrangitsch5248 Sheldon a a character is not a "terrible autistic representation" so much as a representation of a terrible, narcissistic selfish _person_ who just happens to be autistic, who has his overly inflated ego constantly fed by his mother and his friends who cave in to his demands.
Oh man THANK YOU for calling out the recent Sherlock Holmes interpretations. My first exposure to Holmes was the actual books. And while yes, Holmes could be insensitive, it was ALWAYS an unintentional, and he was always truly sorry for accidentally hurting someone. These days it's always, "I'm so much smarter than you that I see you as literally beneath me, and I find you feelings absolutely worthless."
The original Holmes would have viewed these newer interpretations of himself as absolute louts.
As a neurodivergent person, I love writing neurodivergent smart guys. There's a lot of character potential there that neurotypicals don't always realize. One character in my comic is an autistic girl whose special interest is cryptozoology, which is useful when cryptids are a major thing in the story. She has a very flat affect and as such doesn't have many friends because most people think she's cold and uncaring, but she actually cares a lot and struggles with loneliness. She feels like a cryptid herself which is part of what draws her to the subject. She's super fun to write and among the 5 people who have read my comic she's one of the more popular characters, which I'm glad for. Real neurodivergent rep is sorely lacking in media.
That sounds really fun, now I would like to read your comic 😅
It's that thing the normies, do, though, where they latch onto that one canonically autistic character, and use that character as their entire definition and personal model for what _all_ autistic people are like.
Don't know if you kept up with it but I would still love to read your comic, it sounds compelling
I’m ND (potentially on the spectrum, I haven’t gotten a proper evaluation though) and one of my special interests has always been language. Funny that one of my weakest points is actually communicating more synchronously. If I’ve got the time and separation of a letter, email, text, comment, etc I’m usually fine. But on the spot? Not even close
@@bluesmcgroove the struggle is real!
Red’s trope talks: worth rewatching.
I hooted and hollered seeing Geordi being referenced in the bit about ship's engineers, especially since I knew *instantly* which specific scene of "Yesterday's Enterprise" Red had pulled his clip from.
When she brought up neurodivergence or the socially inept smart guy, I was hoping she'd mention Barclay.
Even when it's done well, the neurodivergent smart guy character still kinda bothers me because I'm so sick of every goddamn autistic-coded character in fiction being good at math. We're not all good at math, guys! Also, more generally, we're not all savants - just because we have a special interest doesn't necessarily mean we're an expert in it.
Writing more neurod characters as heros, lancers or big guys first would honestly improve things per default.
As someone on the autism spectrum: This!
I personally loathe maths. Give me history, stories, interconnected webs of more subtle information, not... Linear, dry, empty numbers. Math makes my brain literally crash.
I feel it kinda goes together with the love modern society has for science and technology. Nothing wrong with liking that stuff, but the overdose does lead to underestimation of more practical knowledge, emotional intelligence and literary knowledge or even encryption (to name some). Also specifically for people on the spectrum it feels really shitty to basically be supposed to be good at these technological things and then not be. Some more variety in special interests really wouldn't hurt.
@@TheLostArchangel666 Math isn't dry nor linear. And it barely even has numbers above a middle school level, so calling it empty numbers is even more misleading. Be pro diverse neurodivergent characters all you want, but this slandering of the great name of math will not be accepted in this house.
@@RasmusVJS Oh, I'm rationally aware of those facts. And the point where math stops using numbers and starts using algebraic formulas instead is where I start to obtain one hell of a headache the longer I stare at the darned things.
It nonetheless requires a more... Inherently structured, step-by-step than what my mind naturally does? I'm great at more... Subjectively inclined forms of reason? History, sociology, anthropology... Hell, even economics and such are by far preferable to "pure" math.
With other words: Screw math, I'm a heretic, what are you gonna do about it? Math = Mental Abuse To Humans.
*and by "Humans", I mean me personally. I am Humans. The fact that other Humans do not share in this experience does totally not render my claim disproven. Not at all!
As a writer I really appreciate your videos. The mythology is giving me ideas for story plots, and now I'm finding you got character style lesson videos. You're like an entire creative writing class put intoTH-cam. .
Yooooo Red’s trope talks always make my day 🙌🏼
Great work, as always! And thanks for the Sokka love. He’s one of those ATLA characters who often gets overshadowed, but when you look at the show in its totality, he’s remarkably capable in his own right.
The war may have taken a lot longer, or even had been lost entirely if it werent for him and keeping the team on point most of the time.
"What's nerdy these days" she asks, orbital mechanics and quantum physics are probably up there, higher level math will _always_ be nerdy, even if what math is considered "higher level" changes
Yeah, I would say that for something to be considered "nerdy", it has to filter midwits and/or be very niche.
existential philosophy, although in order to write that one you would have to be into it yourself so you'd just end up writing a tortured author self-insert with 4th wall breaking capabilities.
Writing itself if you get super worldbuildy/philosophical, any niche media, especially if it's somewhat "intellectual" (so Fallen London might count, bad webnovels not so much), media from ye olden days and maybe history and medicine beyond the very basics?
But the more hard science/tech equivalent...no idea.
The five smart-man band:
• The Mech-Suit 'Muscle' - builds stuff, and uses tech to move\hit stuff
• The Empath - Takes notice of what is said, how it's said, behaviours, and other situational details; figuring out reasons someone or something is being an obsticle.
• The Planner - The leader, and tactician. Also makes sure the party is supplied for the intended goal.
• The Eccentric - Creates more egnamic inventions, like a fart gun or literal lightning in a literal bottle. A little unhinged, a foil to the planner, but their gizmos are useful at least one third of the time; the situation just has to be right. May or may not have invented time travel… the party can't rule out the possibility.
• The Observer - Travels with the rest of the group, an outgoing introvert… but if something is out of place, they'll bring it to the attention of the nearest party member. Is there a clicking noise that the others don't notice? Is that light fixture sunk into the wall instead of against it? Is there faint movements in the shadows. The Observer will notice.
Edits:
*March 2, 2022*
• two thirds → one third
• they situatiom → the situation
TH-camr Telltale made a video that really, really got me thinking:
Pastor Plans To FLOOD Elections With "Patriot Pastors"
If you have any interest in Science, Atheism, Rationality,
please watch till the end-speech and consider why I, some Random,
went out of his way to ask you about it.
For extra-context: Another end-speech (but also the whole video) of Professor Daves video about the ‚Discovery Institute’, should maybe give you Hints for hte bigger Picture of Religions relationships with Science and Politics.