@@joergengeerds360 Yea like nuts, I wonder if they could be cast with a nice smooth geometry but I wonder if there's enough demand vs just machining them. thinking of the cheapest ways to machine it, maybe just a big fillet on the holes.
8:01 that dainema is knot happy. I wonder if the radius for the aluminum plug, where the rope exits , brned then re enters the plug. If it should be champheared a little bit more there to make it more round instead of square ?
It seems that when the bolt and the aluminum hanger survive, the dyneema always breaks where the rope feeds through the back of the hanger over basically a sharp edge. I'd bet the strength would go up on both the production and the home made if a larger radius (as close to the diameter of the rope as possible) and made from 7075 or 7068. Now i want to make some to test 😑
In France, we use it every times. We use 1.5m to 2m of rope and we don't keep the loop close. And we start replacing all steel anchor by drill anchor and dyneema for the most frequented cave.
I got into caving a year ago, going from a 15 year background of rock, ice and alpine climbing, so these spit bolts and the hangers for them a completely new thing for me which I didn't notice for the first time untill I went caving in Belgium again last weekend, where I saw a cluster of 4 spit bolts in multiple caves. It made me wonder why they didn't just use a set of 2 regular bolts with eyes on them, the cost can't be that different, so any idea why spit bolts are used in caving at all over the more regular type of bolts you find in rock climbing?
@@pieterveenders9793 Hi, The history made that we used autodrill (maybe wrong translation) spit bold because we were able to put them we used a hammer and a "STROKER". I was when drillhammer with battery didn't exit. So today we keep using similar spit bold but in inox steel. The reason it's that you use the same equipment has before and you are bringing your own plate-anchor. So it cannot be destroy by a flood and you now exactly how it's behind the srew. Sometimes you will found many spit bold because : -first explorer put them really close to the floor (they were using ladder) - it'sreascue equipment - the spit bold tapping is too old and you need to put a new one - or just people try to say i am the best one and my bold is at a better place Today when we can we prefer to put drill anchor, like an abalakov in ice climbing. And for rescue we use Petzl Pulse in 8mm. link to the spit bold : www.raumerclimbing.com/en/products/classic/tap-and-rainox/ Some link in french about the equipment of cavities : www.csr-bfc.fr/rc_images/EFS11.pdf and about the use of light technique : efs.ffspeleo.fr/images/les_cahiers_de_l_efs_n_14_utilisation_des_techniques_l_g_res_en_sp_l_ologie.pdf
Always liked clown hangers, mainly because I'm old and becoming slightly cantankerous... When we run out of hangers on a caving expedition there's always a dozen clowns left mostly because all the younger people don't know what they are, and the older members know they have a huge rock footprint which needs to be dressed when they are placed. I always expected them to be weak, mostly because the metal is so far from the rock surface... turns out the bolt deforms and becomes progressively more in tension, which is stronger...lol.
Now the troll bollards, they had a really small footprint and they shifted the rope away from the wall, its a pity no one has manufactured one for 40 years. I suspect they were discontinued because the 'rules' required hangers that could be clipped into (I have never needed to, or felt it necessary to do this) but i realise it is a requirement in the standards.
Cool results! But if I understand correctly these alu hangers can be mounted with a spacer - and with 8mm or 5/16" stainless bolts? As with the 5/16" bolt shearing right of is not that unexpected, both shear and tensile strength isn't that great for small diameter bolts. And stepping one step up yields a much better tensile and shear strength. Could be fun to see how different mountings for these hangers and different bolt sizes and qualities fare. I'm no climber and much afraid of heights, but I sail and love soft shackles and dyneema in general and the engineer in me loves to see how metal and plastics behave under stress :D Keep up the good work.
In Bulgaria we use the very often. In most cases to prevent rope friction on a rock or as extenders when the anchor is too hight. We even tie a overhand loop knot above the metal pice if the dyneema/aramid rope is too long in cases that we don't have shorter ones. Very excited to see them tested.
Cavers dont take falls they are either are rappeling or jumaring. Also the cave is not exposed to the elements like a climbing route, i.e. no sunshine, changes in temp etc.... You should make comments about this. Climbers are just as weight consicuous.
Most of the things we broke that came out of caves broke lower than new even though they are not exposed to UV. Dirty grinding in the fibers is my guess or just age itself. I've also lead climbed in a cave during an exploration project so there are rare instances one could take a whipper, but that is irrelevant for the uses of these anchors.
@@HowNOT2 Aid climbs and traverses are where falls most likely happen. Very rarely we have a bolt blow out, like happened to us in Lost Creek Siphon, where you end up popping a bolt and shock loading the rebelay above.
Tripple fisherman works on dynema? Or is it that knots hold a little better on dynema with dynema sheath than they do with the twelve strand stuff where nothing but splices seems to work?
Hi Stephen, this is John from the video. The manufacturer of the 5mm cord, Beal, recommends a triple fisherman's. Their recommendation is specific to the double braided cord.
That design definitely looks like it can be optimized, use a cam shaped or u shaped stock and round the transition between the through holes to the exterior surface.
Yeah what the hell does it mean you get to spend 5 weeks is that 5 weeks at a time 5 weeks a year maybe your saying 5 weeks a month maybe you have a special month I don't understand what the 5 weeks mean
those look like they require a good length of thread on the spit to get it on with a nut as aposed to a hangar plate, many of the caves i go in the UK the existing spits probably only have 10mm of thread pertruding so would be no good.
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6:37 "I learned from Ryan"
.... Not the scariest thing said on TH-cam... but it's up there. 😁
Glad someone calls out his weird pronunciation of kilonewtons
@@jdecicco91 um I think you mean “kilanewtints”
I think all the hangers would be much stronger when you would file down the back of it to increase the bend radius of the Rope.
If you made one of these with a bigger radius would it break higher? Also is it possible to make the radius large enough for it to become negligible?
i would probably machine those nuts to have a nice radia, and not just 2 sharp through holes...
@@joergengeerds360 Yea like nuts, I wonder if they could be cast with a nice smooth geometry but I wonder if there's enough demand vs just machining them. thinking of the cheapest ways to machine it, maybe just a big fillet on the holes.
A sheeve from a pulley inside a bit of square tubing to prevent the rope from coming off the sheeve could be done without any custom machining.
Love a Bobby episode!
Gasp! Stainless bolts are butter soft!
8:01 that dainema is knot happy. I wonder if the radius for the aluminum plug, where the rope exits , brned then re enters the plug. If it should be champheared a little bit more there to make it more round instead of square ?
It seems that when the bolt and the aluminum hanger survive, the dyneema always breaks where the rope feeds through the back of the hanger over basically a sharp edge. I'd bet the strength would go up on both the production and the home made if a larger radius (as close to the diameter of the rope as possible) and made from 7075 or 7068. Now i want to make some to test 😑
3:40 I am no engineer but chamfering those holes would definitely help.
12:13 thank you for each and every video you and the boiys put out 👌👌🍻
In France, we use it every times. We use 1.5m to 2m of rope and we don't keep the loop close. And we start replacing all steel anchor by drill anchor and dyneema for the most frequented cave.
Je comprends pas "we don't keep the loop close" Si tu peux m'expliquer 😅
@@truc2fou915 la boucle de l'AS n'est pas continuellement fermé comme dans la video. Noeud différents et plus versatile
I got into caving a year ago, going from a 15 year background of rock, ice and alpine climbing, so these spit bolts and the hangers for them a completely new thing for me which I didn't notice for the first time untill I went caving in Belgium again last weekend, where I saw a cluster of 4 spit bolts in multiple caves. It made me wonder why they didn't just use a set of 2 regular bolts with eyes on them, the cost can't be that different, so any idea why spit bolts are used in caving at all over the more regular type of bolts you find in rock climbing?
@@pieterveenders9793 Hi, The history made that we used autodrill (maybe wrong translation) spit bold because we were able to put them we used a hammer and a "STROKER". I was when drillhammer with battery didn't exit. So today we keep using similar spit bold but in inox steel. The reason it's that you use the same equipment has before and you are bringing your own plate-anchor. So it cannot be destroy by a flood and you now exactly how it's behind the srew.
Sometimes you will found many spit bold because : -first explorer put them really close to the floor (they were using ladder) - it'sreascue equipment - the spit bold tapping is too old and you need to put a new one - or just people try to say i am the best one and my bold is at a better place
Today when we can we prefer to put drill anchor, like an abalakov in ice climbing. And for rescue we use Petzl Pulse in 8mm.
link to the spit bold : www.raumerclimbing.com/en/products/classic/tap-and-rainox/
Some link in french about the equipment of cavities :
www.csr-bfc.fr/rc_images/EFS11.pdf
and about the use of light technique : efs.ffspeleo.fr/images/les_cahiers_de_l_efs_n_14_utilisation_des_techniques_l_g_res_en_sp_l_ologie.pdf
tu penses que la dyneema en manille textile de la vidéo fait combien de mm de diamètre ?
Can't wait til you guys get around to making the Killanew Tents company.
Love the creativity of those hangers!
Nice to put a face to the name. Thanks for finding that pregnancy harness for me, John!
Always liked clown hangers, mainly because I'm old and becoming slightly cantankerous... When we run out of hangers on a caving expedition there's always a dozen clowns left mostly because all the younger people don't know what they are, and the older members know they have a huge rock footprint which needs to be dressed when they are placed. I always expected them to be weak, mostly because the metal is so far from the rock surface... turns out the bolt deforms and becomes progressively more in tension, which is stronger...lol.
Now the troll bollards, they had a really small footprint and they shifted the rope away from the wall, its a pity no one has manufactured one for 40 years. I suspect they were discontinued because the 'rules' required hangers that could be clipped into (I have never needed to, or felt it necessary to do this) but i realise it is a requirement in the standards.
Thank's from sardina, very very interesting
what is the diameter of the Soft Shackle dyneema please ? thks
Great vid guys
leave no new tent un-killed
Cool results!
But if I understand correctly these alu hangers can be mounted with a spacer - and with 8mm or 5/16" stainless bolts? As with the 5/16" bolt shearing right of is not that unexpected, both shear and tensile strength isn't that great for small diameter bolts. And stepping one step up yields a much better tensile and shear strength.
Could be fun to see how different mountings for these hangers and different bolt sizes and qualities fare.
I'm no climber and much afraid of heights, but I sail and love soft shackles and dyneema in general and the engineer in me loves to see how metal and plastics behave under stress :D
Keep up the good work.
Thanks !
Thank you so much for this test, Ive always wondered about those anchors.
You can attach your lanyard to quicklink or hanger of anchor when you are ascending or descending. Is it safe to attach lanyard to that loop?
What is the Knot Called on the white Dyneema???
This is John from the video. Its a triple fisherman's knot.
triple fisherman, manufacturer recommended.
Thanks
@@jfioroni Hey John, you seem cool AF. Glad you're doing what you're doing
New tons, not the old ones
I feel personally attacked by the very last sentence of this vid... 🤣
I love your glasses!
What kind are they?
Hey Ryan, do you pronounce it "fig newtont"?
Ryan looks way different in the video without his hat on
super interesting video thanks for share!!
I would love to see a test with util cord in the cave anchor. I know it will be low, but how low?
Great vid
In Bulgaria we use the very often. In most cases to prevent rope friction on a rock or as extenders when the anchor is too hight. We even tie a overhand loop knot above the metal pice if the dyneema/aramid rope is too long in cases that we don't have shorter ones. Very excited to see them tested.
The overhand loop on top would be interesting to see tested...
Girl friend? Ha! What are those
Super neat piece of gear!
Cavers dont take falls they are either are rappeling or jumaring. Also the cave is not exposed to the elements like a climbing route, i.e. no sunshine, changes in temp etc....
You should make comments about this.
Climbers are just as weight consicuous.
Most of the things we broke that came out of caves broke lower than new even though they are not exposed to UV. Dirty grinding in the fibers is my guess or just age itself. I've also lead climbed in a cave during an exploration project so there are rare instances one could take a whipper, but that is irrelevant for the uses of these anchors.
@@HowNOT2 Aid climbs and traverses are where falls most likely happen. Very rarely we have a bolt blow out, like happened to us in Lost Creek Siphon, where you end up popping a bolt and shock loading the rebelay above.
Tripple fisherman works on dynema? Or is it that knots hold a little better on dynema with dynema sheath than they do with the twelve strand stuff where nothing but splices seems to work?
Hi Stephen, this is John from the video. The manufacturer of the 5mm cord, Beal, recommends a triple fisherman's. Their recommendation is specific to the double braided cord.
@@jfioroni Thank you very much John.
This is rad!
That design definitely looks like it can be optimized, use a cam shaped or u shaped stock and round the transition between the through holes to the exterior surface.
American using mundane forms of metric . There is hope..
The sharp radius is a terrible design flaw. Get an engineered solution.
Yeah what the hell does it mean you get to spend 5 weeks is that 5 weeks at a time 5 weeks a year maybe your saying 5 weeks a month maybe you have a special month I don't understand what the 5 weeks mean
those look like they require a good length of thread on the spit to get it on with a nut as aposed to a hangar plate, many of the caves i go in the UK the existing spits probably only have 10mm of thread pertruding so would be no good.