Ostracized by the Church -- Sean McCulloch of Phinehas
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ม.ค. 2015
- Sean McCulloch of Phinehas shares growing up in Christianity, walking away, and then finding truth.
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As a pastor who loves Christian metal,I was in a Christian metal band and the sad thing is is that bars were open to us playing and preaching the gospel to the lost but churches wouldnt even open their doors to us.Thats sad to me
Sounds like religious legalist and if you asked them what the gospel is and they would fail to answer . Just remember there is reasons why you can’t spread the message on certain times and locations and just read in the New Testament cause it’s mentioned .
How many of us can relate to this. I went straight into metal scene many many years ago after got stumbled over cruel pharisees in the church. But there's one guy who never gave up on me - his name is Jesus Christ. Here i am forgiven and free from sin. Lord, thank you for the freedom you bring to our lifes in this new century! God bless Sean and every other young person like him around the world. More Holy Spirit, more love, less pride, less self-righteousness! He will wipe our tears away after He crushes His last enemy - death!
Daniel Tim me I feel like I have to hide my music because I'm afraid of being judged and being called a devil worshiper because to some my metalcore and posthardcore music os devil's music. Mainly because the hurtful comments on the Internet of other Christians.
My had to leave for a bit . It was really confusing for her
Any genre of music can be used for good or for bad, its the message that matters. Most of the positive metal you listen to has better lyrical content than what "those" people listen to every day in pop music. Don't listen to them, they aren't worth it. They are also coming from a place of cultural Christianity issues, rather than having any sort of truthful reasoning gleaned from the Bible. They have a cultural misconception about metal and don't know how hurtful or wrong they are most likely. The same type of people have said the same incorrect things about many genres of music throughout the years and they have always been wrong my man. Don't let them bring you down, invest in positive outlets like good music and don't listen to the haters because they're dead wrong.
Can't remember when was the last time when I read the comment section of any TH-cam video that was as life-giving as this one. God bless Heart Support!
We are the church.
Don't be a christian, be a disciple. the christian view today is borderline pharisees, but a disciple remembers to love thy neighbor and not to be so quick to judge.
I commented 3 years ago on this post and there are some very important things I need to say even if you never read these comments. First and foremost, I am NO LONGER with that group. They turned out to be false teachers. I soon learned that they were not teaching the gospel. I, too, was ousted by them because I was a metalhead, I believed in salvation by faith through grace. They wanted to say that the only way to God and Jesus was through water baptism, to the point that the campus minister I was under was almost saying that their church was the actual Kingdom of God in the world. They told me that my depression was me talking about myself, or that I talked about it too much when I barely mentioned it. I wanted to end my life so many times while I was there. But this brings me to the second part. I found God in the darkest place. More like He found me. I now fully believe in God, and I believe that through Jesus’ sacrifice I am born again, and through that faith I am saved. Not by men, not by selfish liars that want to victimize people. I am much happier in life, as well as faith. I’m not going to remove my previous comment, in the hopes that someone reads this thread and can learn from it. I am a disciple! Much love, praise Him!
Wise words, Shaun! Really appreciate what you had to say, especially in avoiding painting all Christians / churches this way.
Also, if you read the Bible you're gonna see that the life of Jesus was marked by exactly the same kind of ostracism and loneliness. The church leaders of his time hated him for who he claimed to be (God's Son), his own family didn't believe in him, and even his disciples fled from him. Jesus was the most Alone person who walked this earth. "Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head" (Matt 8:20).
I really needed to watch this. Phinehas is one of my favourite bands too - Sean, you're an incredible guy.
I appreciate your testimony and being honest to the Lord about your experience. Pray for those in the church to have their eyes open to what you see so they can make the church better. God bless brother.
I don’t really like to put myself out there on the Internet because I don’t think anyone will believe me. But imma do it anyway. In my freshman year of college I joined a “church.” At first it was great, I felt like I had a family. People to love and support me since I was away from home. I had just ended a long relationship around this time too, which makes this “church” seem even more predatory. I would go to their bible studies and joke with them, I told them every single sin, all the dirt in my life. But I didn’t feel saved. Then came the topic of salvation. Keep in mind, at the time I never really read the Bible for myself, let alone the book of Ephesians so I never really understood the Gospel. They wanted every single new member to be baptized in water to become a part of their congregation. Their beliefs basically made it so the death of Christ wasn’t enough, and that belief and faith didn’t matter. You HAD to be baptized in one of their locations in order to be in the “kingdom of God.” I met a couple people in my sophomore year that at first scared the hell out me cause they challenged my understanding of the Bible. But, when I finally read the Bible, understood what was being said, understood what the sacrifice of Christ on the cross really meant, I said “alright, enough is enough. I have to leave this place.” Some background, the campus minister called concerts orgies (and provided half of the true definition of an orgy) and basically said that no matter what type of music it was, it was bad and would lead me to hell. There were plenty of other things that they said to me and the friends I made there (they aren’t there anymore) that really brought us down instead of building us up. Every day there was a brutal struggle to just get up. I wanted to die every single day I was there. I didn’t feel the love of God and Jesus there. But luckily the friends I made (the ones alluded to earlier in this post) showed me that God was working in that situation. I finally moved out recently (yes they had a house that a lot of the guys lived in) and I haven’t been happier. I’m still scarred by my experience, and that’ll never change. I don’t think I’ll ever get over the fact that I got manipulated by people so easily. It’s made it hard for me to go look for another church, so I’ve turned to the Christian Metal scene for support. Bands like Wolves at the Gate, Phinehas, Fit For a King, Impending Doom, etc. have been my comfort zones in times of failure and testing. Of course God still takes center stage because he decided to make the people of these bands want to spread their message, and spread the love that God and Jesus have for us even when we fail. So thank you, to every real Christian, to the bands above (even though I know they’ll never see this post) for being real and being there. And thank YOU to whoever decided to take the time out of their day to read this. May God bless you as he’s blessed me. Peace.
Thanks for sharing, praying for you man. God bless
Hi Shaun. I come from the "other side" of church. I've always tried to maintain a "church image" as a way of being accepted by Jesus. Always felt it came from a genuine place but recently I been through some hardships that challenged me to look at my relationship with Him. To stop "covering up". Interestingly ( Ive never been an avid listener of metal ) christian metal has become a way of finding a way to worship. I started out with Sleeping Giant, then War of ages and now your band. When Jesus comes to rapture us I want to be in Gods throne room, wrecking my neck to the sounds of metal worship to our King! Amen.
I'm really starting to think the Christian metal scene is the new church. The old church is dying. I'm glad actually. It's become so far removed from anything Jesus and the 12 talked about.
Omni Codex bro its more than just christian metal. Christian hip hop and Christian indie music. all of these underground genres have more true living Christians than the media portrays
2PercentMusic Agreed 100%
I agree. In middle school there were two genre I said I would never listen to. Screamo and Rap. But now Oh, sleeper, Phinehas, For Today, Demon Hunter, (and many others) are all amazing metal bands that influenced me so greatly. But on top of that, Beautiful Eulogy, Propaganda, NF and Theory Hazit have been my hip hop influences.
Metal has my heart as my favorite but it's incredible how God will use these more viewed as "broken" genres to save people lives. So many suicides have been averted because there was some amazing lyrical music out there to listen to. Highschool was rough for me and these metal and hip hop bands have helped remind me that God isn't this stale force fed thing that so many people at church would try to feed us. Now that I'm 19 and getting ready for life I am so pumped because I know God, the most powerful force IN THE UNIVERSE has my back.
There are churches all over the globe with true Christians loving and serving the Lord and others that don't listen to our music. Old white men that listen to boring music, but have a heart for God and a passion for the gospel. It's like when Elisha felt alone believing all of Israel had turned away, God still had seven thousand that had not bowed to Baal.
Church has 2000yo and is dying for not like metalcore... Okay.
You just nailed it for every kid that grew up like this. My life to a point growing up.
I can't explain how much I related to that at one point in my life. My heart goes out to you brother.
I have a lot of respect for Sean McCulloch to go through what he went through and still believe in God. The statement that he said "I have been hurt the most by Christians" is something that resonates with me. Recently I had a realization though, just because we claim to be Christians does not mean that we are perfect and that our fleshly nature can't get in the way sometimes in our actions. We can't say that 100% of the time we are being Christ like. We fail and we fall and that is when we need to ask forgiveness from God and then ask forgiveness to those that we may have offended or hurt. That is a true sign of maturity as a Christian. I have only had that happen to me a few times in my life where someone did offend me who was a Christian and later they came back and asked for forgiveness. To me that is the True Heart of Jesus and Sean said it the greatest commandment is to love God with you entire being and to love your neighbor as yourself. If everyone were to truly do this we would have a lot less people who have been disenfranchised by "The Church" because WE are the church and we should not be hurting people. Anyway I hope that Phinehas continues to write music that draws people in to a relationship with Jesus it is greatly needed.
This is very close to my story, and I'm still struggling with it. Thanks for sharing Sean - it's nice to encounter real, down-to-earth Christians like you.
Wow. No words. Just wow. Much love.
All I can say is that we ought to show as much Christlike love as much as possible and not push other believers or nonbelievers away by forcing God's name down their throats. So pray for one another and hope that God will put an end to Satan and all of his miserable glory.
We walk a tight line as Christians, the need to be separate from the world as the Bible teaches but to also live in the world and love it's people. Churches have to hold to certain standards but that doesn't mean we should push people away. I believe over time that God will change a person, sometimes we just have to plant the seed, water it and then step back and let God do the miraculous work only HE can do.
Man this resonated with me so well. Thank you, Sean.
Met this man. The most kind person I’ve met
Shaun..excellent message. It's the heart that matters, not the outward appearance or the group you fit or don't fit in. I appreciate your message..it has helped and encouraged me to exercise greater understanding with love... God bless you and your ministry..
Awesome, man, awesome. Nice words. God bless you, Sean! Keep going this good work.
I love to go back and watch this video cause alot of the stuff he has touched on I resonate with some of it if not all of it
I can really relate to this video. Thank you for posting.
I think it’s important to go to church but I’ve definitely been in similar situations. I remember trying to become closer to Christ as I was trying to follow all these rules but I wasn’t feeling anything. I thought God didn’t want anything to do with me or that there was something wrong with me and salvation wasn’t for me. I left the church for a long time and didn’t really think much about it and just did my own thing for a while but after going through the roughest patch in my life a couple years ago I started seeking him again and I now feel closer to him than ever before.
Got to see Phinehas in Birmingham AL back in 15. This guy is so down to earth and I got to get a picture with him. Unfortunately lost it after I deleted FB but I look forward to regaining that picture at a future show.
Wow what a moving story.
Everyone has their struggles in life. But, I get really sickened when I hear the churches are failing the body. I don't think it is always intentional, but if it is through lazy or clicks or anything that pushes the struggling believer away... well it breaks my heart. WE CHRISTIAN ROCKERS need to stand together for and with our brothers. The church in NOT a building people, it is the body.. US... the body of Christ. Don't let the building and politics of stupid humans get to you. Seek your comfort in the Word and then keep fighting to seek out like minded, good people.. and a good building where they hold a church service that you are welcomed in!
In this modern cookie cutter mold church,If you look different you will be rejected like I was.Think about it;for looking like Jesus you are treated horrilbe.I have been called a Charlie Manson lookalike,or something the cat dragged in and that my look scared people away from the church.Well I was the one who was ''scared'' away from their cruel congregation.I remember walking towards the last church I ever entered.I pleaded with the LORD for them to treat me with Christlike love.As I am praying this prayer my eyes fall on a sign saying SANCTUARY. I know what the Bible calls a sanctuary,and I know what history defines as sanctuary but the last dozen or so were not a safe haven for me.In the two years since I left the ''church''I have grown in my relationship with the LORD.And as I battle cancer HE is right by my side.PRAISE YOU LORD FROM FREEING ME FROM THE FALSE CHURCHES!
James Hogan ;( I'm sorry that was your experience. I'm dealing with some church hurt right now. I did the same for two years. Praying for your cancer to be gone in Jesus' name if you are still dealing with that. God bless you. I hear the word "healed" from the Lord for you.
I can so relate to this. I've grown up in church my entire life. I went to bible college and their warped view on things made me hate going to class. So I left the school. After college I got really into drugs and the elders of the church knew about it. And even though I'm sober, I still deal with their judgements. I'm really struggling in my faith and doubting God because I feel so ostracized by the church. This video hit me hard.
Morgan Hendricks follow my videos! haha. but seriously though check them out. yeah, I found that what we need to do actually, is cut away this idea that God is in unison with the judgment part of those churches. It's easy to shrink back down and just say "God must be judging me...." like NAHHHHH. Jesus Christ came to save the world, not to condemn. That's a lie from Satan. Unfortunately, church hurt is real, church hurt is of the devil, and it is rampant. The Lord gave me the word "prostitution" awhile back as an explanation of our churches today. They're suiting the "needs" of members in a bad way, but also suiting themselves and what appeases them instead of GOD. God is NOT pleased with this and HIS JUDGEMENT on the judging WILL be known. Don't fret. This is what's coming. Keep your chin up. I see the Lord lifting it up for you.
Song: De El Quatro by Phinehas
Ryan McSherry you wouldn’t happen to know how to translate that would you? From my understanding (as small and insignificant as that may be) I see it saying “From The Four.” But then what does that mean? Lol
@@dudewhy2849 Its kind of a joke. Named after the Line6 DL-4 delay pedal. Because thats what was used when wroting the song
David OBrien thank you! That’s pretty neat lol
Dude Why sorry didn’t see your reply! Yeah I have no clue lol
Ryan McSherry lol you’re good man
3 years ago i still relate.
Wow man... I can totally relate to this!!
It sucks to see someone hurt by people that are supposed to be your brothers and sisters in Christ. Love your neighbor.
I LOVE how he said he gets weirded out by Christians...So do I. I lean toward thinking Im always getting judged by them on grounds, Im a bit rough around the edges. This aint their fault mostly, its we Christians tend to glorify man more than God at times...THATS were the whole "act" come in, and we feel like we suppose to look, act, and be a certain way. This feeling dont stick around, once you complete in Christ- I do real good around the fish, cause Im an actual person, and I tell folk the only holy thing about me IS Jesus. I carry myself respectfully, and to a tune I got something they want, and my WALK proves there is another way of living. Im also real keen on I spread JESUSs gospel, not my own. And I KNOW Jesus dont alienate, criticize, or insult folks...That behavior is as unwelcome as an outhouse breeze. The early Church had unity, it even said they had "all things in common," but at times, the only dang thing we got in common IS Jesus. Aint supposed to be like that. If we united, and quit being ridiculous, arguing over denominations and all, we would be ALOT dang further in changing the world. Ill ask folks as serious as the business end of a .45- DO YOU WANT HEALING OR NOT? We aint about to argue doctrines, aint got time. I support my family when they stumble or fall, and we aint need to insult The Body...If it were perfect, NONE of us would be in it. I aint ever understand how folks can insult something, someone gave himself up for, and even died for. Yes, I listen to rap, metal, and all kinds of music, and from time to time choice words will SLIP out...But I KNOW the truth. I know Im in the KINGDOM. I lay hold to the Word. Jesus governs all I do. Jesus is #1 in my life. Jesus is my source for all. I love people. Yall aint ever got to clean up to come to me...H*ll, I aint have to do it to come to Jesus.
I feel the exact same way he does.
I love reading these comments.
Digging the This or the Apocalypse shirt.
the pastors do not define who god is. they are men of god. i have faith in god and love metal. sean, we love you and your band! i may not go to church but i still have faith
Great story bro 😐!
nice shirt
I was completely moved by this video. I can hear how hurt he is talking about this and I can relate to a lot of it. A lot of people I’ve been hurt by and people who continue to hurt me are Christians. The church now is filled with hypocrisy, hatred spewing from the pulpits, brainwashing people with these false ideologies of becoming the “perfect” Christian. Truth is, I’ve learned more about love and God after I stepped away from traditional church. I still go mostly every Sunday because like the preaching but I’d be lying if I said it was easy to go anymore.
I went to church at a "non donominational" church where we held hands and sang cumbayah, "healed" and all that stuff. I was in the worship band and i fell in love with this girl I met. We dated for a couple years and we both decided that we were going to take it seriously. So we moved in together and the padtors sat me down and said I couldnt be in the worship band anymore and that I was "free" to worship just not in the band. I imediately eithdrew myself from that church. I was always and still am under the impression that God wants you cummunicate with him and tell him your darkest secrets and your sins. Letting go of thise things establishes that you are nothing and God is everything. I need to know that God is worthy of my best efforts even when they are not good (most of the time my efforts are not to good). I am now at a lutheran church, where I canmeet with other believers who feel that God is more than us behaving. God bless.
Kurt, do you think that as a music minister you should at least try to set a Godly example? Do you understand why the church didn't want you as an example any longer? If they were to allow you to stand up there as a minister, while living in a sinful lifestyle, they would basically be telling everyone that you are right and the Bible is wrong. "I need to know that God is worthy of my best efforts.." Uhh Maybe you got that backwards. I'm not sure you even understand the relationship you supposedly have with God just by that one statement. I'm not your judge but you need to understand that God doesn't have to be "worthy" of anything from you. Somewhere along the way you got the part you play in that relationship twisted. Pray about it and read the Word.
I feel like I have to tell you as a brother that what your pastors told you was right. There is no premarital cohabitation in the Bible, and it is more often then not a gateway to premarital sex which is clearly wrong according to the Bible. I'm sorry you felt hurt, I hope you can move past it. I hope you won't give up on divine healing or holy living. Be blessed my brother
yeah man. you can't be living with a girl when you're not married and yet be on stage. I I understand what you're saying, but as ministers who are on stage in front of everyone, we do have to set an example and be above reproach.
Dude no offense pls don't get pissed but you were wrong.
Everyone at my church listened to metal core or anything to do with breakdown my youth group even started a Christian band and played at secular shows/venues everyone is different.
As a Christian myself I went through some of the roughest times in my life when I was in my mid teens. I was being bullied by people at school and the main pastor’s son because , and this is the ridiculous part, my sister dated him and he was also mistreating her badly and he decided to use me as his emotional punching bag along with other people that were in his little clique. I was 15 when I made the rash decision to just end my life because I never thought that a person like him would show a side of himself so horrible it leaves a scar that’s implemented in me forever. The worst part of the whole situation was the look on my family’s faces when they found out and just seeing how much sadness that was going through them made me realize that I should’ve said something to them about why I was depressed before I tried to kill myself. The moral of my story is that if you’re experiencing any type of abuse or depression or bullying talk to the people who really care about you the most and pray to God for guidance so that you can find another way to get through the process.
WhTs the song playing in the background ?
New album when?
I feel lost because I feel every word stabbing into me. Raised non-denominational, and recently baptized Catholic, I feel left behind because I don't fit in with the "standard" definition for a catholic. Brotherhood and family is what is supposed to be cherished, yet there is nothing but judgement for someone that doesn't fit the mold
No one has hurt me more than those who should've been there in my church and my Christian family. Life is hard when the hand that fed you as an innocent child slaps you. It's never more justified than when, after their inflicting pain on you, you run from the body of believers into the wilderness and you see their true motives of selfishness from a distance. My consolation is knowing I will laugh at their regret before the judgement seat. They will be forced to comprehend the truth about themselves that they always ran from, that in apathetic willful ignorance they never examined themselves to see the shallowness of what they truly were. Their lives built of stubble, their hearts hard and cold, they preach pleasant things but despise anything that brings any even noble discomfort. Oh, Laodicea, perpetuators of nothing hot nor cold. I never want to see you again.
Dont refuse to be a part of the body, then complain that it failed you.
Can somebody translate it into spanish?? I can't understand well what is Sean saying and the TH-cam subtitles help no much :/
A Sean and everybody just know that it not about following Christian because they are judgmental, and think they better then every ones else.
Just know it not about what Christian think about you, it not about what the church think about you, it not about what people in this world think about you, it not what family think about you, it not about what friend think about you, it not even about what you think about you.
it about what God think about you. pence
Good story. Can't relate to it in the slightest but good story
This or the apocalypse shirt thooo
I never felt rejected but I feel like I have to hide my music from people since I like it and some call it devil's music.
Carolyn, never feel like you have to hide the things you love because of what others say. People can be so mean, but we are here for you and we love you!
As the famous quote by Friedrich Nietzsche says that while dealing with the monster one needs to be cautious lest they themselves turn into monsters...connecting this quote to the clergy of church i would say that in the revolt against all that they term "evil",the clergy themselves are turning into it ...excluding one for the way he lives his/her life terming him with the title"evil" is not at all fair and to no point is in track of what god said.Sometimes i feel that the so called "evil"has no much work to do because this overwhelmed by evil clergy themselves indirectly are working for the evil as they are letting such true children of god move farther away from church all because of this foolish and naive steps which the clergy take under the point that
someone is bad or evil just because he/she lives life a little different then they do but more often as themselves...i believe by doing so this clergyman are getting children of god away from premises of church...common why does church exist and why do all go to church??church is a place where one christ follower rejoices everything about christ in harmony with people who have the same cause as he/she does and hence creating a positive atmosphere where development is beneficial to one and all......and when such stupid clergy exclude or reject someone into church just because the "clergy"thinks that an individual is evil or violating the scriptural code is utterly pathetic and absurd,and hence i think there is no point of going to a church if the scenario is such in the church because we can rejoice in god and connect with him anywhere in the world as god our creator is omnipresent and omniscient.
Man didn't build the church. God did. "He said to Peter: Upon this rock, I will build MY church."
anyone know what bible college he went to?
***** I believe he and possibly the other members went to Biola
The Church is broken. The reason for that is is because people have forgotten the meaning of it. The fact that the people that Sean went to church with, only go to church because it's "trendy", is really sad. That shows who's a true believer and who isn't. Sean was right for walking away from Christianity. Christianity was founded by Roman pagans.
Church isnt fitting the mold of what JC had in mind for his people. There isnt supposed to be a one man show, the gatherings of believers should be led by the spirit. Church is really just school.
If only this god was true.
-hey I got a verse for you Psalms 118:8
Psa 118:8 It is better to take refuge in the LORD than to trust in man.
The church is going to sin against us; it's made up of sinful Christians. While we naturally want to run away from that kind of corruption, that's not what Jesus did; He dove straight into the mess to bring his Kingdom down. He loves the church, he calls it his bride! He dies for it (Us!) and cleans us, restoring us to His design.
If a friend of mine said "Hey man you're cool, but I hate your wife" that guy would be no friend of mine. That's what we're doing when we despise the church. As Jesus-loving Christians we go In To the church, and with the authority of the bible and the power of His Holy Spirit we build up, purify, and empower the church. You guys are all a part of it. We have a responsibility to seek God first, and place value on the community and Body of Christ by building her up and treasuring her.
This happens because you were in church because of the type of song that you like and do, and dont be accepted by another people in church because of that is normal, metal isnt a popular type of music there, so if you were in church because of Christ, and the comunity and work, serving brothers in Christ. Maybe you wouldnt feel like that. Thats my way of see the situation.
Whelp, not listening to them anymore. Why would I listen to an artist who admits he's only good at tearing things down?
Jesus or bust...
I dont believe in church at all and no one should trust anyone who is **paid** to preach the world of god. I will not play into any religious structure where the leaders are paid tax free and still expect you to just hand them money. Not "no" but "HELL NO!!"
A relationship with god is YOUR business and literally no one else's. Period.