A spring-loaded ball detent in the middle would be awesome. Also a knurled nob for fast adjusting would compliment it very well, especially if the handle bar was held in the center by the ball detent. Fantastic design, now I just need to convince my wife that I can't live without it. 😁
When I started working in the family business ,recycling plastic, I slid into the role of maintaining and repairing the equipment. I started to see failures that were costly and resulted in lots of down time after working there for some time. I started going the bigger is better route in my repairs when applicable and this increased time between failure. Bigger motors, bigger wiring, bigger shafts, bigger bearings, more belt surface, bigger pulleys. After a few years of changes to the equipment productivity was up 100% or more on all machines and the workers had became accustomed to running the machines harder and harder. But I found no matter how strong I made everything some workers would still run the equipment to failure. They would trip breakers, or overheat motors causing product jams that took time to clean out. They would over torque or shock shafts till they twisted in two. They could not recognize when they had pushed too far and generally did not inspect the equipment for problems. They would not read and understand amp meters and attempts to limit the amount of product they loaded was difficult to control when they ignored cues they had gone too far. I decided I needed a cheap point of failure in all of the equipment that was an audible and consistent warning they needed to pull back. After some observation I found the only thing they seemed to respect was a slipping belt. The smoke and loud squall of a 12 groove banded belt gets everyones attention in the plant when it happens. So I reduced the tension on all belts creating a scenario where if the machine were to be overloaded the first thing to reach its limit would be belt grip. Initially this was meet with lots of resistance and calls to tighten belts and I resisted pointing out that a noisy belt does not break parts and cause downtime. The workers being told to deal with this new situation quickly adapted to the new restriction and downtime from equipment failure has reached an all-time low. Productivity has not been impacted and workers can focus on running the machines instead of clearing jams. It's a winning situation across the board and the belts actually last longer now because the cords inside are not breaking from heavy shock loads. I have to deal with complaints of noisy belts but a quick check of motor loads with an amp meter lets me know if the belt is doing its job. The handle on this vice is the conclusion you would reach if you had to deal with equipment failure time and time again. You need a weak point somewhere or you will break something that is not easily replaceable. These vices are as strong as the weakest part and that weak point needs to remain weak to protect everything else from failure.
I worked with this small company building a prototype machine. One of the fail points on already made models was if there was a jam, the main frame of the machine would bend. Previous engineers tried solving the issue by strengthening the frame, making it heavier, and it was supposed to be lifted by 2 men and moved regularly. Ultimately they blamed it on the workers not knowing how to operate it. When we took on the project, the first thing we did was to put a smaller motor on it. Problem solved, never bent another beam or frame.
Basically we’ve all been trained by the market and by using inferior products that a longer handle is required to gain the leverage we need to hold down objects the tightest when better engineering is all we really ever needed to make up for this. Thanks @Fireball 2ool
I'm continually surprised by how thoughtful your designs are! Great practical, mechanical mind. Some may complain about price, but I'm a firm believer in "buy it once, buy it well" for items like this.
Great video. Great design. Enough said. You made a tool so well that you only had to make a 3 minute video to explain why everything is so much better than we thought. Simple, Robust, well thought out.
I made a vice inspired by the fireball tool one. The only issue I had with mine was that I made the handle too long. Exactly as stated, too long a handle is awkward and thumps your arm while you are placing something in the jaws.
A nice feature of the Chas Parker vises was the set screw in the end of the ball portion of the screw. You could set it with a fine drag to keep the handle from sliding through as easily when you turned the handle. I'm pretty sure they marketed it that way so you could tighten the vise with one finger without it dropping through all the time.
I have mine set so it doesn't move at all under gravity unless I change it. Most times it's 50/50 like you said for quick one finger use, and only gets full length for final tighten. 6-1/4" Chas Parker 375. ~150lbs.
I work at GLOBE IRON FOUNDRY we make your advice. This is so cool seeing it on TH-cam. I knew it because I recognize your name. I work in the pattern shop and then responsible for getting rigging and manufacturing of the patterns.
I was hoping those ridges would be for a ball detent somewhere to hold the handle at the 50/50 mid point position etc. I always thought that would be useful on vices, especially when spinning it around quickly.
Pop an o ring or similar rubber washer on one side of the hadle. One that grips enough to stay in place but easy enough to move manually. Move the o ring to hold the handle at the 50/50 position allowing it to spin quickly without falling through. Slide it back out the way when finished.
@@00linered Yes it would. The whole point of using a ball detent as opposed to say a pin is that it allows the bar to be held in multiple positions. Look up how a ball detent works, it might make more sense to see it in action.
Love this Vice. Can’t wait to get it in June/July. That being said I also wish that someday I can find a Vice this sturdy of close to this sturdy with a half nut design for quicker clamping and unclamping.
Very well thought out. I did a video some time back changing my generic vises round handle to a slightly more robust rectangular shape...I just don't like the feel of the round ones personally.
A handle should always be long enough to allow the user to exert the maximum closing force the vise can withstand. And no longer. This seems a fairly straight forward design concept.
I have a shop built woodworking vice, and as my background is in engineering (I started as a toolmaker apprentice in 1967) I could help but go a little bit over the top with the design, and that includes a thrust ball bearing between the screw and sliding jaw. It is a quick release design so I was able to use a relatively fine thread on the screw for a vice. The consequence of this is that I have to be very careful about how tight I clamp anything in it, because it is too easy to overtighten. I think that thrust race was the most expensive component of the build, but I don't regret it. It's like when you put a dab of wax on a wood screw or grease on nuts and bolts - you have to apply different criteria to the forces need to do them up and screw them in as it is that much easier.
I have a No 5 vise form paramore and I made two handels for it one 60 cm and one 25 cm. Why not do that? PS I don't want my vise to break but it needs to do the work. And can the next vise you make be a postvise? Oke now I am done. Great stuff!! Great Video!!
I assume the the struggle of making your thoughts relatable to the average person causes intrigue and disappointment with humanity. Thank you for the struggle!
honestly for proper shop tools, i really don't understand the idea of making it look good. Just max out it's ability to perform within reason. And the thought you are putting into this vise, is really good.
Anybody that says that handle is too small is somebody that doesn't actually use a vice.... just more keyboard warriors that have no real life experience.
I have had a few people ask me If I could "fix" their machines to stop breaking the shear bolts.!! The answer is always Yes... But, do you want to replace a $1 part once a week, or a $250.00 part once a week? Then I told them what the shear bolts were for.
Hello sir This is Emil I watched several of you videos Although this might be a little off topic.... Could you advise me and couple of other... Could you produce a device... That helps a person join two corners of a cabinet,drawer... I know you usually work with metal...but it will really help out a couple guys Regards Emil
I think another issue is scale.. until you get up next to this vice, you dont realize how big it is.. because of its size, the handle just looks small.
It's interesting that you cut those notches in to weaken it - on the old vintage vices they simply control two variables to control maximum jaw force and protect the vice: 1 bar diameter - you said this is set for comfort- fair enough 2 bar length - you've set this nice and short and extending it won't make the main bar stronger at which point only 1 matters, bar diameter. Could you instead have made it lighter by using tube instead of solid rod to reduce strength and give a chunky look?
@zomgthisisawesomelol I recently found a video on another guys channel of this a a tool trade show and high score was 30,000 and that was without so ya that's crazy. And also must have been a big dude cause average was 16,000 with people hanging their weight on the handle Edit. Here's the vid th-cam.com/video/3Wci6B76jn8/w-d-xo.html
Given the awesome selection of foundries we have here in Spokane. And his commitment to quality. I am going to guess, locally here in the WA U.S.A @Fireball2ool would know for sure though.
I can see some guy putting on a different handle and a pipe just to avoid breaking his original handle. Then he when he breaks the vice he will stick the original handle on and cry warranty...
30,000 psi of force? that's like saying 50lbs of distance. also, given a small enough piston, I can make 30,000psi of pressure between my fore finger and thumb, so giving a pressure value is a bit arbitrary.
@@electromechanicalstuff2602 I more carefully looked over the vise, it seems to be more of a precision bench vice, than a heavier 8" Hollands for example that works for busting down hydraulic cylinders, and the heaviest work that a vise can do. The type of vise that is mounted on pedestals not benches.
Probably short because it's made cheaply and you can't generate enough force to break it! Some like oats before they go into the horse,and some like oats when they come out of the horse!
So your saying 33 THOUSAND P.S.I is not much force???? Dude stop talking already, it's clear you have no clue about what you are trying to talk about.....
@@janenorell971 It sure is easy for manufacturers to put whatever numbers they want on the box. 50,000? 100,000? 9,000,000? There's nothing at all stopping them from lying. There is also no standardized industry practice for measuring and specifying clamping force of a vise, so they can't be sued for false advertising either. Just because you can find a shitty cast-cheese vise made in china for $100 that claims a billion pounds of clamping force doesn't mean jack shit.
![ร้อยพ่อพันแม่ - WanMai [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XY2pNYASEbg/mqdefault.jpg)
Mad props for engineering in a failure point in the cheapest, easiest to replace part of the vise. Every vise I have seen fail, broke the spindle nut.
A spring-loaded ball detent in the middle would be awesome. Also a knurled nob for fast adjusting would compliment it very well, especially if the handle bar was held in the center by the ball detent. Fantastic design, now I just need to convince my wife that I can't live without it. 😁
When I started working in the family business ,recycling plastic, I slid into the role of maintaining and repairing the equipment.
I started to see failures that were costly and resulted in lots of down time after working there for some time.
I started going the bigger is better route in my repairs when applicable and this increased time between failure.
Bigger motors, bigger wiring, bigger shafts, bigger bearings, more belt surface, bigger pulleys.
After a few years of changes to the equipment productivity was up 100% or more on all machines and the workers had became accustomed to running the machines harder and harder.
But I found no matter how strong I made everything some workers would still run the equipment to failure.
They would trip breakers, or overheat motors causing product jams that took time to clean out. They would over torque or shock shafts till they twisted in two.
They could not recognize when they had pushed too far and generally did not inspect the equipment for problems.
They would not read and understand amp meters and attempts to limit the amount of product they loaded was difficult to control when they ignored cues they had gone too far.
I decided I needed a cheap point of failure in all of the equipment that was an audible and consistent warning they needed to pull back.
After some observation I found the only thing they seemed to respect was a slipping belt.
The smoke and loud squall of a 12 groove banded belt gets everyones attention in the plant when it happens.
So I reduced the tension on all belts creating a scenario where if the machine were to be overloaded the first thing to reach its limit would be belt grip.
Initially this was meet with lots of resistance and calls to tighten belts and I resisted pointing out that a noisy belt does not break parts and cause downtime.
The workers being told to deal with this new situation quickly adapted to the new restriction and downtime from equipment failure has reached an all-time low.
Productivity has not been impacted and workers can focus on running the machines instead of clearing jams.
It's a winning situation across the board and the belts actually last longer now because the cords inside are not breaking from heavy shock loads.
I have to deal with complaints of noisy belts but a quick check of motor loads with an amp meter lets me know if the belt is doing its job.
The handle on this vice is the conclusion you would reach if you had to deal with equipment failure time and time again.
You need a weak point somewhere or you will break something that is not easily replaceable.
These vices are as strong as the weakest part and that weak point needs to remain weak to protect everything else from failure.
I worked with this small company building a prototype machine. One of the fail points on already made models was if there was a jam, the main frame of the machine would bend. Previous engineers tried solving the issue by strengthening the frame, making it heavier, and it was supposed to be lifted by 2 men and moved regularly. Ultimately they blamed it on the workers not knowing how to operate it. When we took on the project, the first thing we did was to put a smaller motor on it. Problem solved, never bent another beam or frame.
Basically we’ve all been trained by the market and by using inferior products that a longer handle is required to gain the leverage we need to hold down objects the tightest when better engineering is all we really ever needed to make up for this. Thanks @Fireball 2ool
I'm continually surprised by how thoughtful your designs are! Great practical, mechanical mind. Some may complain about price, but I'm a firm believer in "buy it once, buy it well" for items like this.
My version is “buy once, cry once”, but same sentiment. Invest in good tool, don’t waste money on cheap
Great video. Great design. Enough said. You made a tool so well that you only had to make a 3 minute video to explain why everything is so much better than we thought. Simple, Robust, well thought out.
3:54 I was really hoping for a moment you were going to reveal that "The Hardtail Vise has POWER STEERING!"
I have the Fireball handrail vise and I find the handle length to work just fine. This vise is much better in all respects than other models.
It matches the ergonomics of the hand perfectly, exponential leverage with a better purchase.
I made a vice inspired by the fireball tool one. The only issue I had with mine was that I made the handle too long. Exactly as stated, too long a handle is awkward and thumps your arm while you are placing something in the jaws.
A nice feature of the Chas Parker vises was the set screw in the end of the ball portion of the screw. You could set it with a fine drag to keep the handle from sliding through as easily when you turned the handle. I'm pretty sure they marketed it that way so you could tighten the vise with one finger without it dropping through all the time.
I have mine set so it doesn't move at all under gravity unless I change it. Most times it's 50/50 like you said for quick one finger use, and only gets full length for final tighten. 6-1/4" Chas Parker 375. ~150lbs.
I work at GLOBE IRON FOUNDRY we make your advice. This is so cool seeing it on TH-cam. I knew it because I recognize your name. I work in the pattern shop and then responsible for getting rigging and manufacturing of the patterns.
Too expensive for me but that's an awesome vise. I hope you sell a lot of them.
I was hoping those ridges would be for a ball detent somewhere to hold the handle at the 50/50 mid point position etc. I always thought that would be useful on vices, especially when spinning it around quickly.
Pop an o ring or similar rubber washer on one side of the hadle. One that grips enough to stay in place but easy enough to move manually. Move the o ring to hold the handle at the 50/50 position allowing it to spin quickly without falling through. Slide it back out the way when finished.
Same thought here.
Would be a great modification to make.
But then the handle wouldn't slip through to the other side
@@00linered Yes it would. The whole point of using a ball detent as opposed to say a pin is that it allows the bar to be held in multiple positions. Look up how a ball detent works, it might make more sense to see it in action.
Love this Vice. Can’t wait to get it in June/July.
That being said I also wish that someday I can find a Vice this sturdy of close to this sturdy with a half nut design for quicker clamping and unclamping.
Dang that's some clever design. Nothing is random. It's well thought out! :-)
Shear bolts are added to machinery for safety why not a safety factor for a vice 😉 gotta love it🏁
Very well thought out. I did a video some time back changing my generic vises round handle to a slightly more robust rectangular shape...I just don't like the feel of the round ones personally.
Nice looking tool.
Agree about the handle length.
Btw,
Consider a ball detent holding handle at 1/2 way so its easy to spin.
That is one kickass vise!!!
Thanks for the explanation! Makes a lot of sense
Great advice!
Longer handles are so not suitable for bench vices no matter what type of vice it is 🙄
A handle should always be long enough to allow the user to exert the maximum closing force the vise can withstand.
And no longer. This seems a fairly straight forward design concept.
i´d wish for a ball retainer in the middle of the handle so its even less in the way when turning or having something with hangover in the vise
Being able to work like a speed handle would be awesome too with a center detent.
I have a shop built woodworking vice, and as my background is in engineering (I started as a toolmaker apprentice in 1967) I could help but go a little bit over the top with the design, and that includes a thrust ball bearing between the screw and sliding jaw. It is a quick release design so I was able to use a relatively fine thread on the screw for a vice. The consequence of this is that I have to be very careful about how tight I clamp anything in it, because it is too easy to overtighten. I think that thrust race was the most expensive component of the build, but I don't regret it. It's like when you put a dab of wax on a wood screw or grease on nuts and bolts - you have to apply different criteria to the forces need to do them up and screw them in as it is that much easier.
My first guess on the breaking points on the bar was they were there to put an oring and obtain a non sliding bar...
I have a No 5 vise form paramore and I made two handels for it one 60 cm and one 25 cm. Why not do that? PS I don't want my vise to break but it needs to do the work. And can the next vise you make be a postvise? Oke now I am done. Great stuff!! Great Video!!
I assume the the struggle of making your thoughts relatable to the average person causes intrigue and disappointment with humanity. Thank you for the struggle!
Btw: I pre-ordered. You could silently operate that thing and I’d get it instantly. It’s a piece of history at the time of minting… Thank you
honestly for proper shop tools, i really don't understand the idea of making it look good. Just max out it's ability to perform within reason. And the thought you are putting into this vise, is really good.
Anybody that says that handle is too small is somebody that doesn't actually use a vice.... just more keyboard warriors that have no real life experience.
Great idea for tha fatigue points brilliant
Man I want this thing...
Awesome vice! Have you had any thoughts of selling a scaled down version? I'd want one that's about 1/4 the size of that one.
All good and appropriate reaons.
This vise is super fantastic but it is to big for my shop. Do you make a junior vise?
I have had a few people ask me If I could "fix" their machines to stop breaking the shear bolts.!! The answer is always Yes... But, do you want to replace a $1 part once a week, or a $250.00 part once a week? Then I told them what the shear bolts were for.
can you replace the handle once the apprentice breaks it?
"Because I said so" for 1000 Alex
Hello sir
This is Emil
I watched several of you videos
Although this might be a little off topic....
Could you advise me and couple of other...
Could you produce a device...
That helps a person join two corners of a cabinet,drawer...
I know you usually work with metal...but it will really help out a couple guys
Regards
Emil
Check out my squares. Fireballtool.com
I think another issue is scale.. until you get up next to this vice, you dont realize how big it is.. because of its size, the handle just looks small.
It's interesting that you cut those notches in to weaken it - on the old vintage vices they simply control two variables to control maximum jaw force and protect the vice: 1 bar diameter - you said this is set for comfort- fair enough 2 bar length - you've set this nice and short and extending it won't make the main bar stronger at which point only 1 matters, bar diameter. Could you instead have made it lighter by using tube instead of solid rod to reduce strength and give a chunky look?
@@JorgTheElder Zero - it could be a 3mm hole in a 20mm rod for example - tune to spec.
I thought it was ribbed for pleasure.
when will canadians be able to purchase one?
Awesome
Can I get one in Canada ?
does it come in other colors?
Is that 33,000 psi with or without the cheater?
@zomgthisisawesomelol I recently found a video on another guys channel of this a a tool trade show and high score was 30,000 and that was without so ya that's crazy. And also must have been a big dude cause average was 16,000 with people hanging their weight on the handle
Edit. Here's the vid
th-cam.com/video/3Wci6B76jn8/w-d-xo.html
Where is it made? USA or China
Given the awesome selection of foundries we have here in Spokane. And his commitment to quality. I am going to guess, locally here in the WA U.S.A @Fireball2ool would know for sure though.
It’s a giant Wilton Bullet vise
Wilton is a fine vise, but this is the next level. What "next level"?? Fireball invented this level!!
I can see some guy putting on a different handle and a pipe just to avoid breaking his original handle. Then he when he breaks the vice he will stick the original handle on and cry warranty...
I’m pretty sure you’d have to break the handle to get it out. Looks like the ends are peened in place
@@christianscustoms6429 i just watch it again and couldn't tell. My vice handle end balls are screwed on and don't really look much different than his
I don't think it looks to small
When are you going to put your own vise through the same tests that you performed on the others?
No argument from me.
I suppose you mean 33.000 pound? 33.000psi means nothing for a vice
someone need compensation probably, that is why they need bigger handle and bigger cars xD
30,000 psi of force? that's like saying 50lbs of distance.
also, given a small enough piston, I can make 30,000psi of pressure between my fore finger and thumb, so giving a pressure value is a bit arbitrary.
you are so right! this is just the wakeup call I needed, thanks mom!
Yeah, that PSI thing is so over rated, I mean, who in their right mind would even use such a measurement....
I use big vises, I like this vise, but the handle is way small, Too Small! Say what you want, too small it is.
33,000 psi. How much your big vices put out? Ever use a vice with thrust bearings. U don't need to fight the resistance of friction
@@electromechanicalstuff2602 I more carefully looked over the vise, it seems to be more of a precision bench vice, than a heavier 8" Hollands for example that works for busting down hydraulic cylinders, and the heaviest work that a vise can do. The type of vise that is mounted on pedestals not benches.
Probably short because it's made cheaply and you can't generate enough force to break it! Some like oats before they go into the horse,and some like oats when they come out of the horse!
So your saying 33 THOUSAND P.S.I is not much force???? Dude stop talking already, it's clear you have no clue about what you are trying to talk about.....
@@orion7741 33000# is nothing if every other vice is good for 50000#!
@@janenorell971 It sure is easy for manufacturers to put whatever numbers they want on the box. 50,000? 100,000? 9,000,000? There's nothing at all stopping them from lying. There is also no standardized industry practice for measuring and specifying clamping force of a vise, so they can't be sued for false advertising either. Just because you can find a shitty cast-cheese vise made in china for $100 that claims a billion pounds of clamping force doesn't mean jack shit.
Go away. Quit trying to start shit.
@@janenorell971 Do you know anything about vises?