Alex & Josh: KinnxPorshe is so problematic Me: maybe the BL world might not be for you guys( hahahah ) ... because most of the recurring tropes in BL are hard to swallow .... to enjoy this genre you really have to separate artform and reality ( i still can't watch some series or some themes ..just waaay too much for me personally)
Observation I've watched KP and read snippets of the second book. Problematic is an UNDERSTATEMENT. But I never had a problem with watching it, unlike the Bed Friend. Surprisingly.😅 Bed Friend address SA things deeper, but relationships there super healthy. And yet there is a scene I just can't consume, I shut my ears and eyes and just waiting for it to end (SH scene, not even SA (it's bad too), still SH got me of guard and it portrayed... horribly detailed, I wasn't assaulted, but still felt every aspect of that scene😢 I'm so sorry for anyone who felt this in real life) Maybe it's due to different style of work of directors? Or just because BF closer to real normal life and KP's setting is quite unusual? I don't know.
RE: comments about KinnPorsche's unhealthy relationship: Y'all should consider watching Moonlight Chicken next! It has a lot more healthy queer relationships as well as dealing with concepts of found family, discovering yourself, moving on and more. It's beautiful!
@@imaginareality literally one of the best GMMTV has ever made! (Not Me is another one but I think these two deserve a break from crime related dramas 😭)
Not all BLs explore the dom-sub themes. Some are supernatural, some scifi, some high school musical type dramas, some college romance, and it's all diverse. BL means boy love, i.e., two men in a relationship, but storylines within are as diverse as they come.
Also languages, there's korean BLs, Japanese Bls, Chinese Bromance(bls are illegal in china), Taiwanese BLs, thai BLs, etc etc. BL just means LGBT genre.
@@Maya23452 I prefer to call Chinese Bromance Chinese Censored BL . Because in shows like Stay With Me, the subtext makes the nature of their relationship clear as crystal. Bros don't dance like that, bros keep their lip balm to themselves, and bros definitely don't do this much of eye-screaming, eye-f*****g .
Well,I beg to differ as of now because a Chinese BL is currently airing called 'Meet You At The Blossom' and it isn't bromance.They have managed to uncensor as much as they can.
@@issey1456 “Meet me in the Blossom” is a new show and it’s pretty out there for China! I recommend checking it out, it’s quite interesting so far there’s only 4 episodes at the moment!
17:10 A lot of ppl don't understand this abt this show, which is mostly bc they are used to western productions and media, but the use of music is supposed to be reflective of a character's feelings/ perspective, not what the audience is supposed to take away from the scene. The music during the assautl was that way bc Kinn was the center of the music, from his POV, in the moment he didn't think he was doing something wrong, you can see it in his expression the moment he switches his mind in that scene, he was pushing porshce away up until the moment when porsche vocalizes that he remembers their kiss in the pier, Kinn thinks Porsche isn't too out of it/actually likes him back and is not just making fun of him/teasing him in the bathroom. Ofc he was wrong, and ofc it was still assault, but there is a big difference between Kinn intentionally assaulting porsche while ignoring "no" (what vegas was doing), and misunderstanding a situation and assaulting him. Many assaults happen this way, 2 people who don't have clear boundaries with one or both of them under the influence and boom. But in the morning they make it clear even Kinn became unsure of how porsche was really feeling, that's why he asks him, and seems down/bothered the rest of this episode. He doesn't do a good job of making things right in this episode which makes sense for his character and story. The music when Kim/Wik is snooping and talking to the father is reflective of his character/POV, he is suspissious of something, we dont know what exactly yet but we know he is the character that is gathering info, asking questions, pondering abt the decisions being made by their father. The music during the bike ride with veags is light and pretty bc porsche is the center of it, from his POV he is experiencing a feeling of freedom and momentary relief that he hasnt felt since he became a bodyguard, he doesn't know what vegas did to him.
That's a very nice comment but I think they just wanted to make the viewers feel confused, they wanted to be ambiguous because they didn't really want to address the SA on a deeper level . They were afraid people wouldn't want Porch to end up with Kinn if they used the correct music for that scene
@@inaciasilva2024 i disagree, this entire show's narrative is abt perspective, I can't go into detail without spoiling things for the second couple or for the main plot but they wouldn't spend the entire show building on that, to the point of paying for 2 intro songs in 2 diferent languages each representing one of the main character on top of the various mood versions of the theme song that play throughout the show just for cheap fan baiting. They also did address it, they might not have used the words SA, but Kinn apologizes to Porsche for the things he did to him THAT night and says he wanted to erase the bad things he had done to him, we see Porsche not feeling ok with what had happened THAT night when he is in the bathroom, we see them being at odds when they wake up, we see Porsche didn't remember what happened. They don't just ignore or pretend that it didn't happen, or pretend that it was okay, they just address it in a way that makes sense with the characters and setting that this story takes place in.
@@secretyidentity2833I don't know, I feel like kbl Long time no see did a better job with the gangsta storyline even though it's a very short bl and there is some plotholes, I feel like with Kinnporsche, they were more interested in making money. There was just something missing, when Kinn and Porch started a serious relationship later on in the series, I didn't feel butterflies in my stomach, I actually felt very bored and a little annoyed, I felt like they were afraid to be bold with it. Maybe I was just expecting too much from Kinnporsche and the VegasPete couple could've been interesting but in my opinion they didn't do a good job with them either
the music in vegas and porsche's motorcycle scene is definitely because it's from porsche's pov. even though we as viewers know that he shouldn't trust vegas, from porsche's perspective vegas is one of the few people here that have been nice to him. to porsche, vegas has just talked to him nicely a few times, assured him that he doesn't hold macau getting hurt against him, and even offered him a job as his bodyguard if he doesn't want to work for kinn anymore. i love and hate that scene because we KNOW that vegas tried to hurt porsche but if he hadn't then the whole scene would be so sweet but it also probably wouldn't have happened because porsche wouldn't be looking for a momentary escape if nothing had happened that night
BL's have many different storylines and all of them does not necessarily have a dom-sub relationship or a highly sexual stories as well. It really depends on that specific series.
I agree however, a flaw in alot of bls is that alot do have the idea of "We have to strictly have a top and bottom" it's rare to find a bl where the couple switch this dynamic. This actually comes from homophobic ideology of thinking there has to be a "girl" in the relationship. And rather it's Thai, Japanese, Korean etc. They all seem to follow this concept.
@@SamuraiBre that’s like that for a lotof gay people irl as well, why are you here trying to dictate gay people how their life should be? Just read American bls if you want switch and enjoy your life without caring abt others lives
@@SamuraiBre Im talking to you bc why are you so concerned abt whether people have strict « top » « bottom » roles or not, like litteraly it doesn’t affect the story at all, and why are you comparing bottoming to girls, like weird. A lot of gay people have strict roles and a lot don’t, both are absolutely valid, I don’t think bl portraying more « strict roles » is a problem as long as the story is good
So I think it’s really important to remember that BL is a subgenre of romance, sometimes even closer to erotica. As such, it includes common romance tropes and sexual fantasies. Being overpowered or dominated, being taken advantage of, or losing your innocence are super common (sexual) fantasies, which is why there’s so much porn and erotica with these themes. BL / romance is „two people should be together but something is keeping them apart“. And that „something“ can take the form of one person resisting and needing to be won over. I don’t know how to explain this well but basically, sometimes you can look at what happens not just as „plot“ but also as a (sexual) fantasy or kink and then it makes more sense. When I first got into BL, I felt like it was really similar to fanfiction and I’ve since realized that that’s because both BL and fanfiction are very self-indulgent and explicitely about fantasies and desires. (And I love that!) The plot (mafia shit happening) is mostly there to force characters into interesting situations and explore different relationship (power) dynamics. I feel like I’m explaining this really badly, sorry. Basically, you should approach KinnPorsche like one of those bodice ripper books you see at airport book stores, except that it’s gay. Do that, and you will hopefully have a ton of fun xD To be completely honest, I expect you to get to a point where you won’t want to continue reacting to KinnPorsche but I hope it doesn’t turn you off BL as a whole! The world of BL has a lot of variety to offer, from tooth-rotting fluff and chaste kisses to dark, twisted relationships and high-heat sex scenes. Even some more plot-heavy shows, if that’s more your thing (crime & mystery BLs, horror BLs and whatever Pit Babe is). So I hope you will find a show that will win you over! (Personally, I love the dark stuff. Dark Japanese BL is one of the best things I've discovered in my life lol)
Yes, that's a very good point. I started reading fan fiction, which is very self-indulgent (people are basically writing out their fantasies). Then I started watching BLs, and they feel very similar in that way. They're like fantasies turned into movies/series. And the mafia setting is also a very common trope in that context because the relationships tend to be very hierarchical, which lends itself perfectly to a dominance and submission fantasy. Since it's a fantasy, consent is not really part of the equation. In a fantasy, you're in full control anyway. And a fantasy not supposed to reflect reality. But I can see how turning a fantasy like that into a series could be seen as problematic because viewers might not understand the intent, and then what happens is that non-consensual situations are normalized or even portrayed as something positive, and that's very concerning.
I think you explain it pretty well. BL is a romance subgenre, and the series put in a LOT of typical tropes throughout the episodes. KinnPorsche was my first BL, and I know several others for which it was too. I loved/love this series, even as parts are really dark, and some things made me go 🤨 .. but like you, I like things that can be dark at times - for me depending on how, especially from a gray psychological side, or on the action front. I don't know if they will reach a point where they want to stop watching, if dark story plot isn't their thing (though they're also watching Interview with a Vampire), but I hope not. The series does have a serious and heavy story/plot, but as you said, it IS a BL, so it's also full of (romance) tropes around every corner. Having that in mind is a good thing.
Great comment! 100% this. I tried to say the same thing but I might have come accross as a bit rude in my own comment because I'm not really a fan of BL and fanfic 😂
You described it perfectly. That's my first BL series, but I was a huge fan of fanfiction, and it just feels perfect!!! Could you recommend something similar to KinnPorsch? I've tried a couple of korean series, but they all were about school, and it wasn't that interesting to me.
i think something thats important to remember watching this is that if you're ascribing morality to this show and expecting it to be unproblematic and for everybody to make the correct decisions 100% of the time, you're going to absolutely be disappointed. it's dark, it's SUPPOSED to be dark, but it's also nuanced and these characters are complex. something you gotta remember about kinn is that this man was groomed from a young age by his father to run this empire, he doesn't HAVE free will, all he has to do is what his father expects of him. you can literally see the shift in him in this episode from the beginning when he tells porsche to take time off to recover from the drugging and checks on him, to the person he becomes after his father gets in his head. like it's very easy to look at him and go 'oh kinn bad!!!!!' and ignore the abuse and grooming. but he's not a normal guy, he wasn't raised in a normal way, and the internal war he has with himself that manifests in the last scene before he apologises is something that shouldn't be understated. he was raised to be harsh and demanding to survive (he sleeps with a gun in his hand gdi!!!!), but he tries and he cares - something that his own father keeps drilling into him as a weakness. like please don't just look at kinn and ignore all of this, the fact that he was abused and groomed into this is such an integral part of his character. and i also think it's important to remember that porsche is someone who had to grow up way too fast to take care of his brother, and the people he cares about he cares about fiercely, so he doesn't do well with rejection and the whiplash that kinn's giving him - the way he's being nice to him one minute and then punishing him the next). porsche matches the energy he gets given which is why he gets all cwtchy with vegas when he drops in on him but that is supposd to be intentionally jarring to us as viewers because we have the benefit of hindsight, something that these characters don't. we know what vegas did to porsche, porsche doesn't, it's SUPPOSED to make us feel uncomfortable and creeped out and angry. it's also important not to woobify him and think that this is a lifestyle that fully corrupts him because from episode ONE this man was part of an underground illegal fight club and kicking the shit out of people he didn't even know for money, he's not some innocent woobified character that kinn sinks his teeth into and corrupts, which is why ascribing morality to these characters is 100% going to lead you down a bad path with this show. it's okay that these characters are dark and immoral and problematic and unsanitised, it's okay that they're not all soft and family friendly all the time because there deserves to be queer shows like this in the same way there are cishet shows like this! all this to say that kinn and porsche are both just two men who had to grow up way too fast in their own respective ways and never really let themselves lean into being vulnerable for their own reasons, but they're important enough to each other that they're trying to. and i just think that's really neat.
@@ezequielmondada6427Maybe we should try to keep that out of here, since the guys are here to react to their first BL. They don't need all the background mess to do that. But since you mentioned it, this version of KP is only based on the novel. The BOC script was made by Pond and 2-3 other main script writers, who rewrote the original story a lot, basically only kept the basic main points of the story, but changed all the characters, and a lot of the in between details.
Since you mentioned it. There's a short sidestory episode between episode 6 and 7. It's only 9 minutes long, but make sure you watch it. I would suggest combining it with your reaction to episode 7, as it's sort of a prelude to that. Just look up KinnPorsche Sidestory, but WAIT until you have seen episode 6, because the thumbnail for the sidestory is spoiler-ish for what has happened in ep. 6.
Love Perth with the Aussie accent: Are you effin' dumb, Bro? He is simultaneously cute and mean, but you can't take him too seriously, because of the accent.
the brother who is sneaking around finding dirt on people is actually a really popular singer in Thailand.. and he sang the soundtrack song for the series.. its really beautiful. his name is Jeff Satur
A very important distinction to make about this series is that they’re not setting out to depict real life relationships. Even though the story takes place in a modern setting, the producers/directors have said that the story is about investigating the different shades of humanity, and how there is no black or white, but instead shades of grey. Instead of ‘you should forgive these characters,’ it’s more ‘what would it take to forgive these characters.’ To me, that’s part of what makes bl like kinnporsche so special, because it’s not limited to what we consider ‘acceptable.’ Liking the characters or the story doesn’t mean that you condone their actions, it just means that you enjoy fiction. But when it comes to things like SA, everyone has their own limits. Still, I wouldn’t label the show’s dark themes as ‘cultural,’ but instead part of the bl genre which spans multiple countries. And I’d also like to add that while the genre began as women writing for women, the reason shows like this have reached such high acclaim is because of queer actors and production staff/directors/writers!! They deserve all the props
The music makes a lot more sense if you think about it from Porsche's perspective, like you said. he just went through something traumatic with Kinn and doesnt know that Vegas was the cause of it. Then Vegas shows up with a bike, something porsche really likes, and takes him on a little adventure. Porsche really needed that and it makes him forget about everything that happened, even if its just for a moment. The music really fits with that feeling in my opinion.
Kinnporsche is quite a devisive show, where some think it's way too problematic while others love the darker themes and find they handle them quite well for a mafia show. It's a show that brought a lot of new people into thai shows, and it felt like a breath of something new in the BL genre. Personally I love Kinnporsche, I love morally grey characters, they're the most interesting characters to me!
I will always recommend Not Me and Bad Buddy when it comes to BLs with not only unproblematic representation, but good plot lines. Not Me is mostly to do with Thai politics and it has beautiful LGBT representation and scenes celebrating the community and Bad Buddy feels like a cute romcom enemies to lovers which tries to subvert genres and stereotypes, it can be cringe at times but it’s still a great show 😌 KinnPorsche is decent too but I feel like rewatching with you makes me realize I prefer the overall aesthetic to the actual story
I love the acting in this show. Go back to when Porsche says 'at least they've done me no harm' and then asks 'have you not (harmed me)?'... Watch Kinn's eyes. I missed it the first couple of watches. He's got the tough-man look on, then when Porsche says that, his eyes looked like he'd been slapped. Then he goes back to tough guy. Brilliant.
It IS definitely a show that needs to be rewatched a few times to do it justice. I have discovered so many running metaphors and hidden clues after my first watching...
I have watched KinnPorsche SEVERAL times, or various clips, and I still manage to notice things, details, and/or nuances that I hadn't noticed before, or other fans point something out that makes me wonder why I didn't see it before (as I have pointed some out for others). It's part of what makes KP so special to me. Rarely have I seen anything with this many facets to notice, and I love it. The way they also use parallel details, where same thing is done in two different scenarios.
@@mariwolfie5548 I could not believe it when Josh and Alex missed the blatant iconic Queer reference in Yok's bar in episode 3, the fresco and " Kiss me, Hardy ' scene of Lord Nelson's death as reincarnated by Tankhun, and painted by Daniel Maclise . It's a British one !
Several of the things you talk abt, it is not neccessarily bc it is a bl but a CRIME series. Some scenes irk you bc they are meant to. You don't like certain characters rn bc you are not meant to. This world of crime is dark, brutal and unfair. None of the characters are green flags bc the world they live in is not green. It is red stained and it is expected of them to act within what is accepted in that world. All of these characters are red and grey shades of humanity and you are not supposed to always rule for them. It is abt eventually discovering the different variations and versions of those red and grey shades in these PPL. ALSO for when u wanna watch another dramatic bl with police, supernatural things and reincarnated lovers, try The Sign! It is so good! Also recommend Love In The Air.
just a random small comment. The reason behind Porche not being fired yet is actually a part of the main plot of this series. so good question actually👀.
Listen, I always suggest "Bad buddy" as the first ever bl drama to watch. Its the most heartwarming, non toxic and extremely lovely bl series I have ever watched. The director was a gay person so the series depicts the relationship authentically. It casually questions and comments a lot of toxic or controversial notions of bl genre, just like you have discussed here. The lead couple is so real and cute with none of this dom sum or slut-virgin bs. I think it's apt depiction of a sweet asain lgbtq. I dont watch bl much but this series is my comfort show. Pleaseee consider watching this next.
Kim’s goal is to figure out why in the world would his father who’s so calculated and meticulous hire someone like Porsche who is clearly not the usual fit for a bodyguard let alone anywhere near their family’s workforce. There is a mystery and Kim is looking into it
When someone compares Kinnporsche to bad buddy (for example), for me its like comparing Guy Ritchie's Snatch with Disney's frozen. Its just different genres. Bl means only that main leads are gays, which not often in Hollywood movies
@@issey1456 Haters gonna hate. But are most of them not just giving a recommendation for something different? I think that's why it's being brought up, to highlight the differences.
BL is a really varied genre: gangster stories, office romances, medical dramas, scifi, fantasy, political commentary, fluffy romance, revenge thrillers, comedies, tragedies, historical epics, high school and college relationships, slice-of-life realism, horror, stories about gay parenting... plenty to explore
I'd also mention some faves: the more light cops-and-gangsters dramedy HIStory 3: Trapped, the fantasy-tinged series Until We Meet Again (near-epic romantic tragedy exploring things like generational trauma and the changing views towards lgbtq+ people in Thailand) and Choco Milk Shake (Korean short-but-sweet dramedy), the indie-tinged The Eight Sense, the post-covid slice-of-life drama Moonlight Chicken, the political commentary of Not Me, medical thriller/fantasy series Triage, high school musical My School President, parenting-themed Our Dining Table, the "2 dysfunctional people fitting together" of My Beautiful Man, short drama Jack O Frost, the workplace romance Our Dating Sim, the found family masterpiece Stay With Me...
Me reflecting on my Soprano, Six Feet Under, Breaking Bad, Skins, Weed, Orange Is The New Black, Handmaid Tale, Vikings watching days. Kinnporsche seems tame all of a sudden !
Omg you need to watch moonlight chicken next!!! It deals with how a healthy relationship should be built. How communication is important. Beautifully done showing queer people dealing with real life problems.
Another BL that is one of my absolute favourites and has been crowned as the best korean bl out there is the eigtht sense!! Its very mature and deals with deep topics, but its not toxic and has a great production
KinnPorsche is my absolute favorite show from the BL world. The chemistry is insane and both Mile and Apo are such good actors. For me personally it will always be my no1 no matter how many Bls i am watching after.
I've seen a lot of Moonlight Chicken suggestions and I agree it could be a good next watch (it also only has 8 episodes which could be good for a reaction).
4 หลายเดือนก่อน +11
not me seeing a kinnporsche slander in the comments!😂 for me, it's more exciting when BL is darker with a lot of red flags. that's why i love kinnporsche so much. your reactions were hilarious ladsss ! like always. keep up the good work✨ btw i agree with one comment recommending another BL "moonlight chicken". it's a beautiful BL with real life struggles. and there is a hot daddy character😘
Since everybody is telling you some "healthier" or simply more realistic bl titles, and knowing your taste a little, I would suggest "I told sunset about you", "Bad buddy", "The eight sense", "Moonlight chicken" and "Only friends". These would start great discussions from the both of you, I'm sure, and are very well written and acted
I highly recommend Thai-BLs such as Bad Buddies, Theory of Love, I Told Sunset About You, & Until We Meet Again, that’s just some of my faves in thai-bl series. I also like K-BL because it’s less cringey than most thai-bl, love the story line, and very nice acting. I recommend Light on Me, Semantic Error, and The Eighth Sense.
17:21 How do I explain this? This type of media, unlike Western one, doesn't preach, it just tells a story with all it's shades, problematic ones included without spoonfeeding the audience with "hey, this is wrong and bad". That's for you as the audience to infer. Music, direction and acting choices... they're completely from the pov of the characters. WE know that Vegas assulted Porsche, Porsche doesnt. He only sees a nice guy making him feel better when he's really down, hence the pleasant music. From kinn's perspective, he was sleeping with his crush, hence the romantic music. To Porsche, it was assault, hence the tense music and harsh cuts in the flashbacks. Try to view each scene through the scope of the characters' complex feelings instead of our pov, as audience who knows more povs than the characters involved. the show isn't trying to whitewash what happened, on the contrary. it's just playing with the situational ambiguity (Porsche was too drugged to properly analyze what was happening) and the characters' complex feelings.
Even though this is a new genre for both of you, don't change anything in your commentary because representation and discussion are really important. BL was originally made by women for women but this genre have evolved throughout these years and become more LGBTQIA+ friendly to LGBTQIA+ representation and hopefully in the future of normalizing gay relationship. I love your channel so much, very entertaining to watch and I love that you are opening a discussion in your perspectives. Wonderful job! Looking forward for more.
i think the best way to understand bl is to view it as just romance, a genre that can be paired with any other genre like thriller, action, suspense, horror, supernatural... the fact that it showcases queerness is just a fragment of the plot not the entirety, and I think that's the main difference between western queer movies and bl... ofc there are some bls that solely focus on the fact that the characters are queer but for the most part, in bls, being queer is only part of the character's identity
i feel like when it comes to the music in the scene where Porche and Vegas are together, and for that matter the whole story, it is from Porches pov. So it is because of the fact that he doesn't know, that the music is all sweet like nothing is wrong. This is also a running thing that most of the story is portrayed in context of what porche knows to be true. I think.
Yea I feel like KinnPorsche is the absolute worst first bl to get into. I would suggest something more like Bad Buddy or Last Twilight or maybe even Not me or Moonlight Chicken. (These are my favorites) If you want to you could watch a few bl trailers and see which storylines you find most interesting. There are so many different options it's insane... I hope you don't give up on bl because of this one show. There really are some good ones out there.
Agree with the recommendations but honestly I find BL trailers terrible cause they either are not reflective of the show at all or spoil pretty much everything. I find it better to go into a BL without the trailer and just checking the synopsis.
Naaah...it's fine. It was my first and totally got me hooked. Ok ok... but I have been reading yaoi before that so I guess I'm used to the toxicity levels in BL
Hi guys, once again love the reaction. I do have to remind you that this series will not have characters who make good choices all the time. The relationships are toxic but it works for the characters. If you watch from a moral stand point of the good guy has to be good and the bad guy has to be bad then you will not finish or like this series. I loved Kin Porsche because it’s messy. Not everyone has to be cookie cutter good. This show didn’t promote itself as being sweet and morally upright. It’s about morally ambiguous people who happen to fall in love. But they still maintain their personality. Kinn has the weight on his family on his shoulders as well as major trust issues so there is a lot of conflict going on in his head. Not excusing his behavior just nothing is ever black or white. Also, the series does explore dark Romance, if you aren’t into that you may not like it. I happen to like that sub genre. For you to completely enjoy the series, you have to keep this in mind. There are other BL’s out there that are really good that doesn’t have dark romance elements like I told Sunset about you and I Promised you the Moon. Kinn Porsche is just one type of BL. It checked all my boxes, but other people not so much. I get defensive of it because some people get on soap boxes and condemn it but everything has its flavor that suits some while leaves others with a bad taste. Doesn’t mean it’s bad, it’s just not for them.
Best reply in my book. If people want complete escapism, they can watch one of those fairy-tale, unrealistic High School BL romances, which there are already too many of. Leave the rest of us the few grittier, more realistic, mature adult ones we are finally getting.
I don't think they have to keep that in mind; a reaction is a reaction, right? They will watch the show with their perceptions and I think it's good that issues are brought to light because of that. I understand you get defensive if it was really that good for you. I personally love KP a lot too and honestly I don't see them calling it a bad show anywhere. They're just giving their thoughts about it and I think you have to keep in mind that this is a reaction based on recommendations so they'll react to it even if it's not their flavor. That doesn't mean the show is bad or you have bad taste ;) ... I think KP does a better job then most, not romanticizing some elements. But at some points it does and we shouldn't normalize that type of behavior either. We can call it out; that's what shows are for, right?
@@mz5863 just a few clarifications. I love their reactions and I find and it hilarious. I didn’t for one second accuse them of thinking the show is “bad”. In my comment I was referring to other people in general not the reactors. My point is that context matters. It’s the equivalent of going into a different culture and judging a people without knowing all the facts that puts things into context. Also, just because a show has a rape scene doesn’t mean it’s normalizing. There are so many straight, western films out there that display toxic and abusive relationships but it doesn’t mean that it’s normalizing it. Just like there are films out there where people are crack addicts, serial killers etc. it doesn’t mean that they are normalizing or romanticizing it. That’s why context is important. Like all art forms it’s in the interpretation. I don’t deny that the relationships are toxic. So is the relationship in Interview with the vampire but it works for the characters in this particular show and the world in which these characters live. Take for example Game of Thrones and House of Dragons. These series have an aunt and nephew in a sexual relationship and an uncle and niece. I don’t think that it’s normalizing incest. The characters in the show come from a world and a society in which this is the norm. As much as in the real world we all condemn that sort of behavior when watching the series we have to judge their world based on their society and culure. My point is Kinn Porsche has some problematic themes but I don’t think it pretended to be otherwise. Context is important because we have to consider the characters in terms of the world in which they live. I don’t think the reactors think the show is bad because they have been very good about stating when they are confused. They are feeling exactly what they are supposed to feel in the scenes where they are supposed to feel it. I just think context is important. I guess for me when people start using terms like “normalizing xyz” when it comes to art forms it guess scary because it’s language like that is used when they start doing things like banning books. It’s scary for me when society starts to manicure its art forms. As usual this is just my opinion. I get your point too.
Another great reaction. I think one of the cultural elements to keep in mind is that many Asian countries are very patriarchal and have very defined class hierarchies. I think that is why we see a lot of BLs with these power dynamics and forced gender norms where someone in the relationship is the "man" and the other the "woman." I also think that is reflective of the fact that a lot of BL stories are written by women, so there is an inherent bias in the storytelling towards a relationship based on masculine and feminine norms. I feel like we should do a tour through the different counties first before another Thai BL (if Alex and Josh want to continue to explore BL after KinnPorshe). Maybe The Eighth Sense, To My Star or Semantic Error for Korea, Old Fashioned Cupcake for Japan (although My Beautiful Man is my fav) and No 1 For you or Your Name Engraved Herein from Taiwan. Sorry, I know there are some good ones from the Philippines as well I just haven't watched those yet. Quick edit to add that it would be fun to watch one of the Asian gay dating shows together.
BL is a very complicated genre with a long history dating back to the 1970s in Japan. It's always been controversial and hotly debated for the ways in which it romanticizes abuse and sexual assault and how it can represent gay men in very problematic ways. While BL is my absolute favorite genre, I recognize that for these reasons it's really not for everyone, and also really not for every queer person. All of your criticisms and discomfort with it is very valid. That being said, in more recent years and decades, the problematic areas of the genre have been getting a lot better (less sexual assault, less homophobic and stereotypical representations of gay men) because queer people are more and more involved in making BL. As someone who loves BL, this has been a really exhilarating thing to see, in essence seeing the genre become queerer. I know you guys have gotten a lot of recommendations for BL series to watch (there are literally hundreds to choose from), but I think you would enjoy and it would be interesting for the channel if you reacted to BL written and directed by gay men or queer people. For instance, P'Jojo is an openly gay man who wrote and directed the MASSIVELY popular BL series Only Friends based on his and his community's life experiences. Then there's P'Aof who is also an openly gay man who wrote or directed Moonlight Chicken, Bad Buddy, Last Twilight, A Tale of a Thousand Stars, Dark Blue Kiss, and more. There's also P'Golf who was the first transperson elected to Thai parliament who directed The Eclipse and Wandee Goodday, which are series I absolutely love for how progressive their messages are. I love Kinnporsche and can overlook its problematic elements, but please do not think that all BL are similar to it. BL includes so many different types of stories from cute, fluffy, chaste high school romances, to Kinnporsche.
Yessssss all of this! Only friends is my fave. I can rewatch it many times. I'm lobbying for that show haha. Because it can actually strike up conversations and lay bare issues that are taboo.
Takara Kun to Amagi Kun is an amazing Japanese bl to watch; it's cute and revolves around teenage love, The Eighth Sense is my favourite korean bl and blueming too, there is a lot better bl than KinnPorsche that I feel you guys would enjoy more, the ones that are cuter or filled with comedy, etc, not ones that are heavily deep in trauma (though a few involve traumatic experiences) or sex or nonconsent
Yea I think this was a pretty crazy bl to start w 😅 there’s soooo many phenomenal ones out there. I hope this doesn’t damper your journey into them. People have been suggesting moonlight chicken which is so amazing!
Maybe you should start with bls like *2gether the series and 2nd seasin still 2gether* or *Bad Buddy* also a really good and cute BL they kinda give the vibe of young royals and Heartstopper i think you would really enjoy them
If u ever consider watching another BL I highly recommend 'My School President' !!! Its my personal favorite! (And a LOT less toxic than KinnPorsche lol)
The song Porchey is writing/singing is the Love Theme for the show, (Why Don't You Stay?). It was playing the first time Kinn and Porsche kissed out on the doc. It's actually written and sung by Jeff Satur, who is the actor playing Kim/Wik (the youngest mafia brother).
Guys no matter how bad/toxic this might seem right now, pls pls don't drop it! its gonna get better and in my opinion Kinn also redeems himself (as much as thats possible yk)
I think for a wholesome yet heart wrenching BL series would be Love for Love's Sake. I can't express how much I love this series. I think it would be a good break from a BL like Kinnporsche. 💖💖💖
Here come the answers ( parts of them ) to your questioning at the end of episode 4 . We all went through that . KP is a more layered show than it seems at first. There are many hints and clues, some of them visuals, other s in a single line, or through the cinematography or plot choices . I promise, rewatching a few times will help a lot in that aspect !
I think that this show has become very popular because of its similarity to many fanfictions out there. It was my first BL as well and I liked it but I wouldn't recommend it to someone who has just started to get into that genre. I believe that it is very complicated at first, I understand you, apart from all the good stuff happening. Kinn certainly deserves another chance, and I'm waiting impatiently for your next reaction !!
I’ll not give any spoilers but one thing I learned the first time I watched this series is …nobody is what they seem to be. It’s a crazy yet valid look into accepting who you are and fulfilling your parents expectations. I love how y’all guess what’s about to happen next by just spouting the most insane plot twists….and then it happens.
If you guys decide to continue exploring the BL genre afte KinnPorsche I highly recommend you to react to I Told Sunset About You (romantic, artistic, kind of "indie" BL production that won international awards), Manner of Death (mistery, drama, the story revolves around solving a crime), Moonlight Chicken (found family and one of the most fleshed out stories tbh) and maybe A tale of 1000 Stars (fantasy, sort of slice of life, very chill, pinning and cute). Love your reactions, guys!
I highly recommend you to react to (from my perspective ) two of the most iconic ( If not the most iconic) Thai BLs of all time Which are:" Theory of Love" and "2gether" They are definitely One of the most watched en enjoyed bl in all the Industry They are very Famous and the storyline is cute, funny and great even if it has it's things. ALSO I SUUUPERRR RECOMEND YOU LAST TWILIGHT (IT HAS REPRESENTATITON OF BLIND PEOPLE AND PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN IN PRISON)
We did warned u😂😂😂 it's so dark, traumatic and messed up, but this series definitely in a history book for their impact on people, I recommend pitbabe series, it's not dark but the story is very intriguing
There's been the trope in many BLs where different variations of SA are either glossed over or almost romanticised. A similar thing one might find in the old school straight romance novels with the very agressive/possesive male love interest. That has bleed over into fanfiction and further on in BLs in the earlier days of this genre back in 2016 and onward. But these past 2 years many BL shows are dealing with, challeging or flipping some of these toxic ways to deal with such tropes and that's great to see. KinnPorsche was one of the first by showing the aftermath and how Porsche has his bodily autonomy taken from him from that act, and how it mentally affects him. And yes, I agree with the odd choices of music. Personally I would have preferred that they didn't have the romantic music during Kinn and Porsche, but kept the unsettling mood the scene already had. If they had done that, then I actually think the scene with Porsche and Vegas on the bike, would work really well with the soft music, since it would be clearer Porsche is being fooled by Vegas in that moment. Like the music and Vegas are "fooling us". I've gotten used to from many Asian shows and movies, how much looser they are with having all kinds of different moods in a show. How one can go from super dark to very silly. And that's a style I do like since it can do something much more fun or interesting in how the story is told, and it's different from other Western shows. But when dealing with more darker real life things like SA, that switch in tone can seem very jarring. (I do love my fanfiction and I've read lots of the toxic tropes, but it can be different seeing that in a show with real people. For example, another fangirl friend of mine read the Fifty Shades of Grey books and had fun with them, since it reminded her of some of the cheesy/messy fanfic she's read before. But she said, seeing it displayed in the movies made it real uncomfortable to watch. I'm also an advocate that we can have all the toxic tropes in any show, but it's all about how we handle them and what story we're trying to tell by adding them)
I feel like you should only blame yourselves for starting with kinnporsche 😂 which is also why i think it’d be amazing to continue your journey with I told sunset about you. As it is said to be one of the best ones made in the BL world and is extremely realistic where emotions and experienced go. It also gives you a peek on thai culture, amazing locations and has peak production.
@@lillilmeowmeow4262 i really don’t know. I mean if you think about the cinematography by itself, there’s nothing quite like it. And i mean the artistic choices the production used be it the film-like quality, soundtracks etc. The plot is complete, none of those gaping plot holes (the usual for many bl’s in general) and the kids can really act. Maybe it’s too simple as a storyline for some but i’d even go as far as to call it a ”bl classic” which honestly no one should skip.
I can't wait for Vegas and Pete to come in, if u are looking for another masterpiece of a bl you can check out Last twilight, The eclipse or Until we meet again (i just realised that i might have spoiled something, i am SO sorry)
Yes, it's not over yet, still 9 more episodes to go, so anything may happen. No final judgement yet, although I have to say, based on the writers actions/behaviors toward the actors, nothing surprises me in this show.
Well then correct your post if you know. THEY KEEP ASKING US NOT TO DO THIS, AND YOU HAVE GIVEN THEM A MASSIVE SPOILER ! Maybe going "oops" is not the most adequate way to solve the problem.
@@issey1456 excuse me don't be so rude, what's the point to correct my comment if they already saw it, my mind clicked minutes after i posted it and when i was back to delete it they have already liked it, the spoiler isn't massive i might just be talking about their characters getting more screen time, sorry i want to be a good person and apologise
Love in the Air was my first introduction to the world of BLs. I actually saw it on TH-cam first before I knew about all the apps. Then I watched it on an app and realized that it had a few spicy scenes that YT didn’t show. The main couples aren’t toxic and it is just a good, fluffy, palate cleanser after KP.
@@jamiesilver7401 Hhahahahahahaha stupid toxic is the best description. LITA was that show that made me wonder wtf is wong with me for still liking it despite everything being off about it.
if you watch Cherry magic i think you will love it! it's a bit silly but it's really wholesome! kurosawa (the ML) is a whole green forest!, or love for love sake! it's also dark but so cute! Also, you have to keep in mind that it's all fictional, so there will be a lot of things that won't make sense. You will see a lot more of that in many other shows. You just have to turn your brain off for those moments, lol. BLs are made with the mindset of 'okay, this is fiction, I'm going to do what I want to please my and the viewers' fantasies' (not all of them are like that though, lol). If you want something realistic and better, then 'Your Name Engraved Herein' is one of the top ones. It's very sad and dark, though. I hope this helps!
I think if you want to see a BL with healthier relationships (because listen we love Kinnporsche, but we're not watching it for healthy relationships lol), Bad Buddy is a good one. It's more of a college romcom kind of deal, but like really good and serious at times. The director of that (who is openly gay) also directed Moonlight Chicken, which is another good one. My School President is another more wholesome one, though geared to a younger audience (more like teenagers). Cherry Magic (both the original Japanese version and the Thai remake) is another very wholesome show. However all of these are more slice of life/school based shows. Some more action based BLs that have less unhealthy relationships would be Manner of Death, Triage, and The Sign (some of these still have like complicated/kinda toxic relationships but it's like that for other reasons than why Kinnporsche is). I mean there's definitely space for darker relationships and I think BL being as large as it is, it makes sense that there's some really complicated and even dark relationships portrayed in it. There's a wide variety of stuff out there, some good, some bad. I think it's also difficult starting with Kinnporsche, because while the marks of the genre are present in it, it's not a good like cross section to judge the genre of Thai BL as a whole on.
I took the music choice as from one of the characters perspectives. The music in the hotel room that felt conflicting I read as Kinn’s emotion or feelings. And to me, the bike with Vegas sounding sort of tender was not as much about what we as viewers know to be the massive issue with Vegas but Porsche’s feelings in that moment. He felt some comfort and freedom for a moment because he was not in the know about Vegas. I found that to be the case a few different times in the show.
17:32 Yeah, as of my perspective I think the sound matches what Porsche felt at the time because he doesn't know what Vegas did and he feels nice and relax with him, but it's making us uncomfortable because we know what Vegas did
I know KinnPorsche can be quite a lot but please don't give up on the bl industry, there are some awesome bl series out there. Personally I would recommend Last Twilight, it tells a really beautiful and touching story. Anyway, I love your videos you guys are great!
Not all bl’s are as scorched as Kenn/Porsche, this was a breakout series. I think you would like Twins or Love Is In the Air or a good one like HIStory 4 Close To You.
True! The music does reflect the characters mindset at a given scene. Also again, like what others say, although the theme may not be morally right about a lot of things in this series, we must all remember that the plot is all about mafia and political correctness does not exist in that world. Again, not to say that it is right at all!
i actually can not wait for another one of these, your reactions are so funny but really insightful too. also, hope kinnporsche doesn't turn u off from bl as a whole, personally i rly love this series, but there are so many other storylines that r explored in thai bl that r def worth watching.
Not gonna lie the only reason i started watching KinnPorsche was because Jeff Satur was in it (Kim) im obsessed his music and his voice (its absolutely insane. His range is even more impressive. From his normal speaking voice you wouldn't expect him to have sucj a soft high singing voice. Plus he made a very famous OST for the show. Its actually the one that Porchay was singing) and im so glad i started watching it. And Barcodes (Porchay) voice irl is actually really good. From what ive heard of his stuff hes actually got a very impressive voice. "I think we've got company" he says as he has a cold barrel of a gun pressed up against his temple and as Kinn can literally see the people holding the guns to his head This next episode is my favorite of the entire show. It really shows their relationship growing alot more and how they can peacefully interact with each other for a while without trying to shoot each other or pointing guns at each other.
You should watch love in the air!! This show definitely has darker themes and the relationship isn’t one that the audience craves to see develop because of their character, but love in the air is a sweet love story which is still very representative!! Every character is amazing definitely one of my favourites!!!
Since ppl are suggesting other shows, my new obsession this first half of 2024 for BL was Tadaima Okaeri. It's a japanese anime BL and it is the first anime set in an omegaverse world. Usually there is a LOT of SA/ sub-dom themes in omegaverse due to the nature of the worldbuilding (pls read up on omegaverse for more context), but this show is the most wholesome cute fluffly family friendly healthy relationship dynamic BL I've ever seen and handles a lot of topics that can be translated into real life lessons.
The reason why there was romantic music behind Vegas and Porsche being on the motor bike was because this was the first moment where Porsche was happy in this dark period. Sure Vegas did a terrible deed but he was the one who made Porsche happy in that moment, whether he had an ulterior motive or not. The music was an indication of this final moment of peace after all the chaos and pain that happened.
I absolutely love watching you watch this. Kinn Porsche is one of my favourite BL shows from Thailand. It's a roller-coaster ride from start to finish and there are constantly surprises. Just remember that with all Thai BL, it's also meant to be entertaining and this is. Keep enjoying, love the ride.
I never understood who recommends KinnPorsche as an introduction to BL world As far as thai bl, I think you should react to one of Aof last shows (Bad Buddy, Moonlight Chicken or Last Twilight) or I Told Sunset About You From Korea, maybe The Eight Sense The couples aren’t problematic, no SA or huge power play dynamics, very enjoyable to watch and get introduced to a new culture and a different kind of media
One thing that I do really like about exploring different lgbt dramas and shows from different countries is that each country has different and distinct themes. Obviously every drama is different but I like how you can kind of know what you’re getting into depending on where it was made, and it’s fun to figure those themes out too
I'm laughing so much at your comments on this video first because they are funny, and second, because there is always an innocent throw-away comment that makes chuckle because I know what is coming. Please just know that KinnPorsche is just one of a handful of bl's that are like this, most just either have you shouting in frustration at the characters due to a misunderstanding, breaking your heart because you've got so invested in the characters and something sad happens, or grinning like an idiot because the series is just a happy nice fluffy romance. Usually they are a mix of any two of the above, or sometimes all three. KinnPorsche is dark, gritty, uncomfortable to watch and understand at somepoints... but it had me coming back every week to watch it. I was watching sweeter fluffier stuff along side it that I could run to straight after to balance it all out and give my brain a rest though!
Guys, I love watching you react. You're great fun and very insightful. BL is really a sub-genre, closer to fanfiction than reality, so there's everything in there just like any romance story. I personally recommend Moonlight Chicken which is a more mature series set in reality and much more relatable characters, plot, and good actors. I'm really curious on your opinion. I think you'll find it enjoyable and sweet. Hope you have an amazing weekend!!
I just wanna thank you for the discovery of this series and the BL genre. Thanks to your reactions I just binge watched the entire season and I'm just hooked. This is so hilarious and crazy I love it, even if everything is so heightened and twisted from reality, I got really attached to the characters. And I've never laughed so hard at a series for being so overdramatic ❤😂
People already said this but I want to clarify this too, the type of relatiosnhip depicted in Kinnporsche isn't prevalent in all BL shows. There are many type of stories, some with incredible representation (I really recommend Not Me which depicts the fight for queer rights in Thailand and is directed by a trans woman) and some like Kinnporsche wich have problematic messages. I personally enjoyed watching kinnporsche, it has great acting and some interesting characters however it's not the best when introducing people to the BL genre specially when many say it's the best of all when in reality there are other stories which in my opinion have better representation and watching Kinnporsche first may lead people to think all BL are like that. Many people already recommended really good thai BL series however this are my personal recommendations aside from Not Me: - The Eclipse: It's about the struggle for the rights and freedom of students in Thailand and the strict rules to which they are subjected, it criticizes the hierarchy of power in this institutions and how they harm students. It is directed by a non-binary person and the story shows the protagonist's process of acceptance of his own sexuality as well as dealing with topics such as suicide and depression in a sensitive and respectful way. - Last Twilight: One of the most loved recent Thai dramas and directed by Aof, a gay man who is one of the most important directors in the industry. It portrays the life of a university student who after an accident begins to lose his sight and how he finds peace within himself thanks to this guy who becomes his guide and support who also has his difficulties since he is a mechanic who spends some time after a fight in jail and after getting out he cannot find work because of his record. - A Tale of Thousand Stars: From the same director of Last Twilight, this is one of the most popular BLs. We follow Tian, a rich man with a heart disease who is rebellious and spends all his time partying until one day he is about to die and is saved thanks to a heart transplant. He has a vision of the girl who gave him her heart and after this he has a desire to know what this girl's life was like. This is how he goes to this rural town of people with limited resources to become a teacher, like the girl was, and he meets the man she liked, a man of the military who is in charge of taking care of the town and with whom he will form a special connection.
I always saw the music in the bike scene as how Porsche was feeling (some much needed freedom to let his hair down with someone he thinks is nice to him) but I suppose it can be interpreted another way too. I found the show turned out to be quite aware of the toxic characters and their actions but perhaps they assume their audience is on the same level and they tend not to wave a sign saying “as a show we know this is bad, not romantic behaviour”. They also address things that happened earlier in the show later, which I wish I would’ve known earlier on because some characters are hard to support without the character development 😂
i can recommend the japanese "old fashioned cupcake" I was left with only warm emotions after watching it, if you want to get angry/sad, then the movie "his" the situation that happened there infuriated me so much that I never want to watch it again :) and also korean "you make me dance", "to my star"
I love lighthearted bl's so imagine my face when I watched kinnporche for the first time 😭 the production is amazing (hello budget) but I can't say it's my favourite story, it is good tho (and their acting and chemistry obvs is great)
Alex & Josh: KinnxPorshe is so problematic
Me: you're not ready for what's to come
They don’t even know what’s coming!
They really aren’t and I’m kinda worried about it if their level of freak out is this high already
Alex & Josh: KinnxPorshe is so problematic
Me: maybe the BL world might not be for you guys( hahahah ) ... because most of the recurring tropes in BL are hard to swallow .... to enjoy this genre you really have to separate artform and reality ( i still can't watch some series or some themes ..just waaay too much for me personally)
Observation
I've watched KP and read snippets of the second book. Problematic is an UNDERSTATEMENT. But I never had a problem with watching it, unlike the Bed Friend. Surprisingly.😅
Bed Friend address SA things deeper, but relationships there super healthy. And yet there is a scene I just can't consume, I shut my ears and eyes and just waiting for it to end (SH scene, not even SA (it's bad too), still SH got me of guard and it portrayed... horribly detailed, I wasn't assaulted, but still felt every aspect of that scene😢 I'm so sorry for anyone who felt this in real life)
Maybe it's due to different style of work of directors? Or just because BF closer to real normal life and KP's setting is quite unusual? I don't know.
Yes, I was thinking the same thing, they sure are in for a ride of their life, haha 😂❤
RE: comments about KinnPorsche's unhealthy relationship: Y'all should consider watching Moonlight Chicken next! It has a lot more healthy queer relationships as well as dealing with concepts of found family, discovering yourself, moving on and more. It's beautiful!
omg I love Moonlight Chicken!
@@imaginareality literally one of the best GMMTV has ever made! (Not Me is another one but I think these two deserve a break from crime related dramas 😭)
Moonlight chicken is perfection!!!
@@brinleyknowles I agree and it's also one of those BLs that feel very queer
Agreed, Moonlight Chicken is the best. Personally my fave is the side couple. So pure…
Not all BLs explore the dom-sub themes. Some are supernatural, some scifi, some high school musical type dramas, some college romance, and it's all diverse. BL means boy love, i.e., two men in a relationship, but storylines within are as diverse as they come.
Also languages, there's korean BLs, Japanese Bls, Chinese Bromance(bls are illegal in china), Taiwanese BLs, thai BLs, etc etc.
BL just means LGBT genre.
@@Maya23452 I prefer to call Chinese Bromance Chinese Censored BL . Because in shows like Stay With Me, the subtext makes the nature of their relationship clear as crystal. Bros don't dance like that, bros keep their lip balm to themselves, and bros definitely don't do this much of eye-screaming, eye-f*****g .
@issey1456 you're right which is why I mentioned them with bls above
Well,I beg to differ as of now because a Chinese BL is currently airing called 'Meet You At The Blossom' and it isn't bromance.They have managed to uncensor as much as they can.
@@issey1456 “Meet me in the Blossom” is a new show and it’s pretty out there for China! I recommend checking it out, it’s quite interesting so far there’s only 4 episodes at the moment!
Straight traditional series have brutal and toxic relationships, flawed characters etc. So obviously bls have them too. I mean, why not?
17:10
A lot of ppl don't understand this abt this show, which is mostly bc they are used to western productions and media, but the use of music is supposed to be reflective of a character's feelings/ perspective, not what the audience is supposed to take away from the scene.
The music during the assautl was that way bc Kinn was the center of the music, from his POV, in the moment he didn't think he was doing something wrong, you can see it in his expression the moment he switches his mind in that scene, he was pushing porshce away up until the moment when porsche vocalizes that he remembers their kiss in the pier, Kinn thinks Porsche isn't too out of it/actually likes him back and is not just making fun of him/teasing him in the bathroom. Ofc he was wrong, and ofc it was still assault, but there is a big difference between Kinn intentionally assaulting porsche while ignoring "no" (what vegas was doing), and misunderstanding a situation and assaulting him. Many assaults happen this way, 2 people who don't have clear boundaries with one or both of them under the influence and boom. But in the morning they make it clear even Kinn became unsure of how porsche was really feeling, that's why he asks him, and seems down/bothered the rest of this episode. He doesn't do a good job of making things right in this episode which makes sense for his character and story.
The music when Kim/Wik is snooping and talking to the father is reflective of his character/POV, he is suspissious of something, we dont know what exactly yet but we know he is the character that is gathering info, asking questions, pondering abt the decisions being made by their father.
The music during the bike ride with veags is light and pretty bc porsche is the center of it, from his POV he is experiencing a feeling of freedom and momentary relief that he hasnt felt since he became a bodyguard, he doesn't know what vegas did to him.
That was explained very well! I wish there was someone like you around when I first got into this rabbit hole.
@@secretyidentity2833 Exactly! What a great explanation. Couldn’t have explained it better.
That's a very nice comment but I think they just wanted to make the viewers feel confused, they wanted to be ambiguous because they didn't really want to address the SA on a deeper level . They were afraid people wouldn't want Porch to end up with Kinn if they used the correct music for that scene
@@inaciasilva2024 i disagree, this entire show's narrative is abt perspective, I can't go into detail without spoiling things for the second couple or for the main plot but they wouldn't spend the entire show building on that, to the point of paying for 2 intro songs in 2 diferent languages each representing one of the main character on top of the various mood versions of the theme song that play throughout the show just for cheap fan baiting. They also did address it, they might not have used the words SA, but Kinn apologizes to Porsche for the things he did to him THAT night and says he wanted to erase the bad things he had done to him, we see Porsche not feeling ok with what had happened THAT night when he is in the bathroom, we see them being at odds when they wake up, we see Porsche didn't remember what happened. They don't just ignore or pretend that it didn't happen, or pretend that it was okay, they just address it in a way that makes sense with the characters and setting that this story takes place in.
@@secretyidentity2833I don't know, I feel like kbl Long time no see did a better job with the gangsta storyline even though it's a very short bl and there is some plotholes, I feel like with Kinnporsche, they were more interested in making money. There was just something missing, when Kinn and Porch started a serious relationship later on in the series, I didn't feel butterflies in my stomach, I actually felt very bored and a little annoyed, I felt like they were afraid to be bold with it. Maybe I was just expecting too much from Kinnporsche and the VegasPete couple could've been interesting but in my opinion they didn't do a good job with them either
the music in vegas and porsche's motorcycle scene is definitely because it's from porsche's pov. even though we as viewers know that he shouldn't trust vegas, from porsche's perspective vegas is one of the few people here that have been nice to him. to porsche, vegas has just talked to him nicely a few times, assured him that he doesn't hold macau getting hurt against him, and even offered him a job as his bodyguard if he doesn't want to work for kinn anymore. i love and hate that scene because we KNOW that vegas tried to hurt porsche but if he hadn't then the whole scene would be so sweet but it also probably wouldn't have happened because porsche wouldn't be looking for a momentary escape if nothing had happened that night
BL's have many different storylines and all of them does not necessarily have a dom-sub relationship or a highly sexual stories as well. It really depends on that specific series.
I agree however, a flaw in alot of bls is that alot do have the idea of "We have to strictly have a top and bottom" it's rare to find a bl where the couple switch this dynamic. This actually comes from homophobic ideology of thinking there has to be a "girl" in the relationship.
And rather it's Thai, Japanese, Korean etc. They all seem to follow this concept.
@@SamuraiBre that’s like that for a lotof gay people irl as well, why are you here trying to dictate gay people how their life should be? Just read American bls if you want switch and enjoy your life without caring abt others lives
@@user-uz4wi2jk8z ....Dude what are you on about? Are you commenting under the right person?
@@SamuraiBre Im talking to you bc why are you so concerned abt whether people have strict « top » « bottom » roles or not, like litteraly it doesn’t affect the story at all, and why are you comparing bottoming to girls, like weird. A lot of gay people have strict roles and a lot don’t, both are absolutely valid, I don’t think bl portraying more « strict roles » is a problem as long as the story is good
@@user-uz4wi2jk8z I think your confused. Where do I show "concern?" and what does anything you just typed have to do with my comment?
So I think it’s really important to remember that BL is a subgenre of romance, sometimes even closer to erotica. As such, it includes common romance tropes and sexual fantasies. Being overpowered or dominated, being taken advantage of, or losing your innocence are super common (sexual) fantasies, which is why there’s so much porn and erotica with these themes.
BL / romance is „two people should be together but something is keeping them apart“. And that „something“ can take the form of one person resisting and needing to be won over. I don’t know how to explain this well but basically, sometimes you can look at what happens not just as „plot“ but also as a (sexual) fantasy or kink and then it makes more sense.
When I first got into BL, I felt like it was really similar to fanfiction and I’ve since realized that that’s because both BL and fanfiction are very self-indulgent and explicitely about fantasies and desires. (And I love that!) The plot (mafia shit happening) is mostly there to force characters into interesting situations and explore different relationship (power) dynamics.
I feel like I’m explaining this really badly, sorry. Basically, you should approach KinnPorsche like one of those bodice ripper books you see at airport book stores, except that it’s gay. Do that, and you will hopefully have a ton of fun xD
To be completely honest, I expect you to get to a point where you won’t want to continue reacting to KinnPorsche but I hope it doesn’t turn you off BL as a whole! The world of BL has a lot of variety to offer, from tooth-rotting fluff and chaste kisses to dark, twisted relationships and high-heat sex scenes. Even some more plot-heavy shows, if that’s more your thing (crime & mystery BLs, horror BLs and whatever Pit Babe is). So I hope you will find a show that will win you over! (Personally, I love the dark stuff. Dark Japanese BL is one of the best things I've discovered in my life lol)
Well said
Yes, that's a very good point. I started reading fan fiction, which is very self-indulgent (people are basically writing out their fantasies). Then I started watching BLs, and they feel very similar in that way. They're like fantasies turned into movies/series. And the mafia setting is also a very common trope in that context because the relationships tend to be very hierarchical, which lends itself perfectly to a dominance and submission fantasy. Since it's a fantasy, consent is not really part of the equation. In a fantasy, you're in full control anyway. And a fantasy not supposed to reflect reality. But I can see how turning a fantasy like that into a series could be seen as problematic because viewers might not understand the intent, and then what happens is that non-consensual situations are normalized or even portrayed as something positive, and that's very concerning.
I think you explain it pretty well.
BL is a romance subgenre, and the series put in a LOT of typical tropes throughout the episodes.
KinnPorsche was my first BL, and I know several others for which it was too. I loved/love this series, even as parts are really dark, and some things made me go 🤨 .. but like you, I like things that can be dark at times - for me depending on how, especially from a gray psychological side, or on the action front.
I don't know if they will reach a point where they want to stop watching, if dark story plot isn't their thing (though they're also watching Interview with a Vampire), but I hope not. The series does have a serious and heavy story/plot, but as you said, it IS a BL, so it's also full of (romance) tropes around every corner.
Having that in mind is a good thing.
Great comment! 100% this. I tried to say the same thing but I might have come accross as a bit rude in my own comment because I'm not really a fan of BL and fanfic 😂
You described it perfectly. That's my first BL series, but I was a huge fan of fanfiction, and it just feels perfect!!! Could you recommend something similar to KinnPorsch? I've tried a couple of korean series, but they all were about school, and it wasn't that interesting to me.
i think something thats important to remember watching this is that if you're ascribing morality to this show and expecting it to be unproblematic and for everybody to make the correct decisions 100% of the time, you're going to absolutely be disappointed. it's dark, it's SUPPOSED to be dark, but it's also nuanced and these characters are complex.
something you gotta remember about kinn is that this man was groomed from a young age by his father to run this empire, he doesn't HAVE free will, all he has to do is what his father expects of him. you can literally see the shift in him in this episode from the beginning when he tells porsche to take time off to recover from the drugging and checks on him, to the person he becomes after his father gets in his head. like it's very easy to look at him and go 'oh kinn bad!!!!!' and ignore the abuse and grooming. but he's not a normal guy, he wasn't raised in a normal way, and the internal war he has with himself that manifests in the last scene before he apologises is something that shouldn't be understated. he was raised to be harsh and demanding to survive (he sleeps with a gun in his hand gdi!!!!), but he tries and he cares - something that his own father keeps drilling into him as a weakness. like please don't just look at kinn and ignore all of this, the fact that he was abused and groomed into this is such an integral part of his character.
and i also think it's important to remember that porsche is someone who had to grow up way too fast to take care of his brother, and the people he cares about he cares about fiercely, so he doesn't do well with rejection and the whiplash that kinn's giving him - the way he's being nice to him one minute and then punishing him the next). porsche matches the energy he gets given which is why he gets all cwtchy with vegas when he drops in on him but that is supposd to be intentionally jarring to us as viewers because we have the benefit of hindsight, something that these characters don't. we know what vegas did to porsche, porsche doesn't, it's SUPPOSED to make us feel uncomfortable and creeped out and angry. it's also important not to woobify him and think that this is a lifestyle that fully corrupts him because from episode ONE this man was part of an underground illegal fight club and kicking the shit out of people he didn't even know for money, he's not some innocent woobified character that kinn sinks his teeth into and corrupts, which is why ascribing morality to these characters is 100% going to lead you down a bad path with this show. it's okay that these characters are dark and immoral and problematic and unsanitised, it's okay that they're not all soft and family friendly all the time because there deserves to be queer shows like this in the same way there are cishet shows like this!
all this to say that kinn and porsche are both just two men who had to grow up way too fast in their own respective ways and never really let themselves lean into being vulnerable for their own reasons, but they're important enough to each other that they're trying to. and i just think that's really neat.
Well said but please wtf does woobified mean 😭
I very much agree with this!
That would be great if the writer wasn't as messed up as the story they wrote.
Yes, you put it so well! KinnPorsche is (among other things) about agency, about making choices in a life that feels like it doesn't give you choice.
@@ezequielmondada6427Maybe we should try to keep that out of here, since the guys are here to react to their first BL. They don't need all the background mess to do that.
But since you mentioned it, this version of KP is only based on the novel. The BOC script was made by Pond and 2-3 other main script writers, who rewrote the original story a lot, basically only kept the basic main points of the story, but changed all the characters, and a lot of the in between details.
Since you mentioned it. There's a short sidestory episode between episode 6 and 7. It's only 9 minutes long, but make sure you watch it. I would suggest combining it with your reaction to episode 7, as it's sort of a prelude to that.
Just look up KinnPorsche Sidestory, but WAIT until you have seen episode 6, because the thumbnail for the sidestory is spoiler-ish for what has happened in ep. 6.
yess VERY important. HAHAHAHAA The side stories/bonuses in BLs are my favorite part☺😂
yeah I think everyone hated Kinn in this episode lol :D but give him a chance!
Character Development will be happening soon, hang in there guys.
"Mr kinn can jump off the building"😅😂😂. Y'all freaking hilarious
Love Perth with the Aussie accent: Are you effin' dumb, Bro? He is simultaneously cute and mean, but you can't take him too seriously, because of the accent.
the brother who is sneaking around finding dirt on people is actually a really popular singer in Thailand.. and he sang the soundtrack song for the series.. its really beautiful. his name is Jeff Satur
we love Jeff❤
I remember the first time I saw him on this show, I was so mesmerized by his beauty and his voice like wow he's incredible
A very important distinction to make about this series is that they’re not setting out to depict real life relationships. Even though the story takes place in a modern setting, the producers/directors have said that the story is about investigating the different shades of humanity, and how there is no black or white, but instead shades of grey. Instead of ‘you should forgive these characters,’ it’s more ‘what would it take to forgive these characters.’
To me, that’s part of what makes bl like kinnporsche so special, because it’s not limited to what we consider ‘acceptable.’ Liking the characters or the story doesn’t mean that you condone their actions, it just means that you enjoy fiction. But when it comes to things like SA, everyone has their own limits.
Still, I wouldn’t label the show’s dark themes as ‘cultural,’ but instead part of the bl genre which spans multiple countries. And I’d also like to add that while the genre began as women writing for women, the reason shows like this have reached such high acclaim is because of queer actors and production staff/directors/writers!! They deserve all the props
The first thing you said, really important!!
Epsode 6 is my favorite. It's hilarious, and the ending to the episode... is... something. Don't forget to watch the side story after.
btw the soft background music where porche and vegas were riding is sang by kim/wik/kinn younger brother (jeff satur) its called why dont you stay
My guys here don't know the upcoming plot with Kim. My favorite on this series 😊
😂😂😂@@mpower5000
@@mpower5000 wait until they saw KimChay storyline that the fandom still can't moved on 'til now😄
@@xenna463 yes, I am one of them. I feel robbed
The music makes a lot more sense if you think about it from Porsche's perspective, like you said. he just went through something traumatic with Kinn and doesnt know that Vegas was the cause of it. Then Vegas shows up with a bike, something porsche really likes, and takes him on a little adventure. Porsche really needed that and it makes him forget about everything that happened, even if its just for a moment. The music really fits with that feeling in my opinion.
Yeah tbh I thought that was like super obvious lol
Kinnporsche is quite a devisive show, where some think it's way too problematic while others love the darker themes and find they handle them quite well for a mafia show. It's a show that brought a lot of new people into thai shows, and it felt like a breath of something new in the BL genre. Personally I love Kinnporsche, I love morally grey characters, they're the most interesting characters to me!
I will always recommend Not Me and Bad Buddy when it comes to BLs with not only unproblematic representation, but good plot lines. Not Me is mostly to do with Thai politics and it has beautiful LGBT representation and scenes celebrating the community and Bad Buddy feels like a cute romcom enemies to lovers which tries to subvert genres and stereotypes, it can be cringe at times but it’s still a great show 😌 KinnPorsche is decent too but I feel like rewatching with you makes me realize I prefer the overall aesthetic to the actual story
2 of my absolute favorites. ❤
Since everyone's listing more things, Eclipse, Not me, or Semantic error are super super good
I applaude to the Semantic Error suggestion. Hovewer I suppose that guys would find something problematic there as well. That might be interisting. 🤔
Yesyesyessss
The Eclipse❤❤❤
Hell yeah the eclipse is amazing
semantic error ❤
I love the acting in this show. Go back to when Porsche says 'at least they've done me no harm' and then asks 'have you not (harmed me)?'... Watch Kinn's eyes. I missed it the first couple of watches. He's got the tough-man look on, then when Porsche says that, his eyes looked like he'd been slapped. Then he goes back to tough guy. Brilliant.
It IS definitely a show that needs to be rewatched a few times to do it justice. I have discovered so many running metaphors and hidden clues after my first watching...
I have watched KinnPorsche SEVERAL times, or various clips, and I still manage to notice things, details, and/or nuances that I hadn't noticed before, or other fans point something out that makes me wonder why I didn't see it before (as I have pointed some out for others).
It's part of what makes KP so special to me. Rarely have I seen anything with this many facets to notice, and I love it. The way they also use parallel details, where same thing is done in two different scenarios.
@@mariwolfie5548 I could not believe it when Josh and Alex missed the blatant iconic Queer reference in Yok's bar in episode 3, the fresco and " Kiss me, Hardy ' scene of Lord Nelson's death as reincarnated by Tankhun, and painted by Daniel Maclise . It's a British one !
Give a look in moonlight chicken for the next bl!
Yes they would love it.
I agree. Its mature but not so toxic
@@mixmymusicplease yeah!
That's a great suggestion!
Several of the things you talk abt, it is not neccessarily bc it is a bl but a CRIME series. Some scenes irk you bc they are meant to. You don't like certain characters rn bc you are not meant to. This world of crime is dark, brutal and unfair. None of the characters are green flags bc the world they live in is not green. It is red stained and it is expected of them to act within what is accepted in that world. All of these characters are red and grey shades of humanity and you are not supposed to always rule for them. It is abt eventually discovering the different variations and versions of those red and grey shades in these PPL.
ALSO for when u wanna watch another dramatic bl with police, supernatural things and reincarnated lovers, try The Sign! It is so good! Also recommend Love In The Air.
just a random small comment. The reason behind Porche not being fired yet is actually a part of the main plot of this series. so good question actually👀.
Listen, I always suggest "Bad buddy" as the first ever bl drama to watch. Its the most heartwarming, non toxic and extremely lovely bl series I have ever watched. The director was a gay person so the series depicts the relationship authentically. It casually questions and comments a lot of toxic or controversial notions of bl genre, just like you have discussed here. The lead couple is so real and cute with none of this dom sum or slut-virgin bs. I think it's apt depiction of a sweet asain lgbtq. I dont watch bl much but this series is my comfort show. Pleaseee consider watching this next.
Kim’s goal is to figure out why in the world would his father who’s so calculated and meticulous hire someone like Porsche who is clearly not the usual fit for a bodyguard let alone anywhere near their family’s workforce. There is a mystery and Kim is looking into it
When someone compares Kinnporsche to bad buddy (for example), for me its like comparing Guy Ritchie's Snatch with Disney's frozen. Its just different genres. Bl means only that main leads are gays, which not often in Hollywood movies
So true ! People keep dissing KP in the comments . Why are they even still here after episode 5 ??
@@issey1456 Haters gonna hate. But are most of them not just giving a recommendation for something different? I think that's why it's being brought up, to highlight the differences.
BL is a really varied genre: gangster stories, office romances, medical dramas, scifi, fantasy, political commentary, fluffy romance, revenge thrillers, comedies, tragedies, historical epics, high school and college relationships, slice-of-life realism, horror, stories about gay parenting... plenty to explore
I'd also mention some faves: the more light cops-and-gangsters dramedy HIStory 3: Trapped, the fantasy-tinged series Until We Meet Again (near-epic romantic tragedy exploring things like generational trauma and the changing views towards lgbtq+ people in Thailand) and Choco Milk Shake (Korean short-but-sweet dramedy), the indie-tinged The Eight Sense, the post-covid slice-of-life drama Moonlight Chicken, the political commentary of Not Me, medical thriller/fantasy series Triage, high school musical My School President, parenting-themed Our Dining Table, the "2 dysfunctional people fitting together" of My Beautiful Man, short drama Jack O Frost, the workplace romance Our Dating Sim, the found family masterpiece Stay With Me...
Me reflecting on my Soprano, Six Feet Under, Breaking Bad, Skins, Weed, Orange Is The New Black, Handmaid Tale, Vikings watching days. Kinnporsche seems tame all of a sudden !
Omg you need to watch moonlight chicken next!!!
It deals with how a healthy relationship should be built. How communication is important. Beautifully done showing queer people dealing with real life problems.
Another BL that is one of my absolute favourites and has been crowned as the best korean bl out there is the eigtht sense!! Its very mature and deals with deep topics, but its not toxic and has a great production
ive noticed they actually do the music and the atmospheres of scenes like the main characters feel at the moment
Don't forget that Vegas's dad told Vegas to get close to Porsche. Vegas is following orders.
KinnPorsche is my absolute favorite show from the BL world. The chemistry is insane and both Mile and Apo are such good actors. For me personally it will always be my no1 no matter how many Bls i am watching after.
History 3 : Trapped (Taiwan) explores the yon & yang between a gangster & a co. It’s onenof my favorite ❤
I've seen a lot of Moonlight Chicken suggestions and I agree it could be a good next watch (it also only has 8 episodes which could be good for a reaction).
not me seeing a kinnporsche slander in the comments!😂 for me, it's more exciting when BL is darker with a lot of red flags. that's why i love kinnporsche so much. your reactions were hilarious ladsss ! like always. keep up the good work✨ btw i agree with one comment recommending another BL "moonlight chicken". it's a beautiful BL with real life struggles. and there is a hot daddy character😘
Since everybody is telling you some "healthier" or simply more realistic bl titles, and knowing your taste a little, I would suggest "I told sunset about you", "Bad buddy", "The eight sense", "Moonlight chicken" and "Only friends". These would start great discussions from the both of you, I'm sure, and are very well written and acted
I love Only Friends! I thought about suggesting that too
I highly recommend Thai-BLs such as Bad Buddies, Theory of Love, I Told Sunset About You, & Until We Meet Again, that’s just some of my faves in thai-bl series. I also like K-BL because it’s less cringey than most thai-bl, love the story line, and very nice acting. I recommend Light on Me, Semantic Error, and The Eighth Sense.
17:21 How do I explain this? This type of media, unlike Western one, doesn't preach, it just tells a story with all it's shades, problematic ones included without spoonfeeding the audience with "hey, this is wrong and bad". That's for you as the audience to infer. Music, direction and acting choices... they're completely from the pov of the characters. WE know that Vegas assulted Porsche, Porsche doesnt. He only sees a nice guy making him feel better when he's really down, hence the pleasant music. From kinn's perspective, he was sleeping with his crush, hence the romantic music. To Porsche, it was assault, hence the tense music and harsh cuts in the flashbacks. Try to view each scene through the scope of the characters' complex feelings instead of our pov, as audience who knows more povs than the characters involved.
the show isn't trying to whitewash what happened, on the contrary. it's just playing with the situational ambiguity (Porsche was too drugged to properly analyze what was happening) and the characters' complex feelings.
Even though this is a new genre for both of you, don't change anything in your commentary because representation and discussion are really important. BL was originally made by women for women but this genre have evolved throughout these years and become more LGBTQIA+ friendly to LGBTQIA+ representation and hopefully in the future of normalizing gay relationship. I love your channel so much, very entertaining to watch and I love that you are opening a discussion in your perspectives. Wonderful job! Looking forward for more.
i think the best way to understand bl is to view it as just romance, a genre that can be paired with any other genre like thriller, action, suspense, horror, supernatural... the fact that it showcases queerness is just a fragment of the plot not the entirety, and I think that's the main difference between western queer movies and bl... ofc there are some bls that solely focus on the fact that the characters are queer but for the most part, in bls, being queer is only part of the character's identity
i feel like when it comes to the music in the scene where Porche and Vegas are together, and for that matter the whole story, it is from Porches pov. So it is because of the fact that he doesn't know, that the music is all sweet like nothing is wrong. This is also a running thing that most of the story is portrayed in context of what porche knows to be true. I think.
Yea I feel like KinnPorsche is the absolute worst first bl to get into.
I would suggest something more like Bad Buddy or Last Twilight or maybe even Not me or Moonlight Chicken. (These are my favorites)
If you want to you could watch a few bl trailers and see which storylines you find most interesting. There are so many different options it's insane... I hope you don't give up on bl because of this one show. There really are some good ones out there.
Agree with the recommendations but honestly I find BL trailers terrible cause they either are not reflective of the show at all or spoil pretty much everything. I find it better to go into a BL without the trailer and just checking the synopsis.
Naaah...it's fine. It was my first and totally got me hooked.
Ok ok... but I have been reading yaoi before that so I guess I'm used to the toxicity levels in BL
Your Kinnporsche reactions are actually my therapy
Hi guys, once again love the reaction. I do have to remind you that this series will not have characters who make good choices all the time. The relationships are toxic but it works for the characters. If you watch from a moral stand point of the good guy has to be good and the bad guy has to be bad then you will not finish or like this series. I loved Kin Porsche because it’s messy. Not everyone has to be cookie cutter good. This show didn’t promote itself as being sweet and morally upright. It’s about morally ambiguous people who happen to fall in love. But they still maintain their personality. Kinn has the weight on his family on his shoulders as well as major trust issues so there is a lot of conflict going on in his head. Not excusing his behavior just nothing is ever black or white. Also, the series does explore dark Romance, if you aren’t into that you may not like it. I happen to like that sub genre. For you to completely enjoy the series, you have to keep this in mind. There are other BL’s out there that are really good that doesn’t have dark romance elements like I told Sunset about you and I Promised you the Moon. Kinn Porsche is just one type of BL. It checked all my boxes, but other people not so much. I get defensive of it because some people get on soap boxes and condemn it but everything has its flavor that suits some while leaves others with a bad taste. Doesn’t mean it’s bad, it’s just not for them.
Best reply in my book. If people want complete escapism, they can watch one of those fairy-tale, unrealistic High School BL romances, which there are already too many of. Leave the rest of us the few grittier, more realistic, mature adult ones we are finally getting.
Why is their media literacy that of like, eight year olds tho
I don't think they have to keep that in mind; a reaction is a reaction, right? They will watch the show with their perceptions and I think it's good that issues are brought to light because of that. I understand you get defensive if it was really that good for you. I personally love KP a lot too and honestly I don't see them calling it a bad show anywhere. They're just giving their thoughts about it and I think you have to keep in mind that this is a reaction based on recommendations so they'll react to it even if it's not their flavor.
That doesn't mean the show is bad or you have bad taste ;) ... I think KP does a better job then most, not romanticizing some elements. But at some points it does and we shouldn't normalize that type of behavior either. We can call it out; that's what shows are for, right?
@@heartsamessgaultier8562 KP is gritty but I wouldn't call it realistic :')
@@mz5863 just a few clarifications. I love their reactions and I find and it hilarious. I didn’t for one second accuse them of thinking the show is “bad”. In my comment I was referring to other people in general not the reactors. My point is that context matters. It’s the equivalent of going into a different culture and judging a people without knowing all the facts that puts things into context. Also, just because a show has a rape scene doesn’t mean it’s normalizing. There are so many straight, western films out there that display toxic and abusive relationships but it doesn’t mean that it’s normalizing it. Just like there are films out there where people are crack addicts, serial killers etc. it doesn’t mean that they are normalizing or romanticizing it. That’s why context is important. Like all art forms it’s in the interpretation. I don’t deny that the relationships are toxic. So is the relationship in Interview with the vampire but it works for the characters in this particular show and the world in which these characters live. Take for example Game of Thrones and House of Dragons. These series have an aunt and nephew in a sexual relationship and an uncle and niece. I don’t think that it’s normalizing incest. The characters in the show come from a world and a society in which this is the norm. As much as in the real world we all condemn that sort of behavior when watching the series we have to judge their world based on their society and culure. My point is Kinn Porsche has some problematic themes but I don’t think it pretended to be otherwise. Context is important because we have to consider the characters in terms of the world in which they live. I don’t think the reactors think the show is bad because they have been very good about stating when they are confused. They are feeling exactly what they are supposed to feel in the scenes where they are supposed to feel it. I just think context is important. I guess for me when people start using terms like “normalizing xyz” when it comes to art forms it guess scary because it’s language like that is used when they start doing things like banning books. It’s scary for me when society starts to manicure its art forms. As usual this is just my opinion. I get your point too.
Another great reaction. I think one of the cultural elements to keep in mind is that many Asian countries are very patriarchal and have very defined class hierarchies. I think that is why we see a lot of BLs with these power dynamics and forced gender norms where someone in the relationship is the "man" and the other the "woman." I also think that is reflective of the fact that a lot of BL stories are written by women, so there is an inherent bias in the storytelling towards a relationship based on masculine and feminine norms.
I feel like we should do a tour through the different counties first before another Thai BL (if Alex and Josh want to continue to explore BL after KinnPorshe). Maybe The Eighth Sense, To My Star or Semantic Error for Korea, Old Fashioned Cupcake for Japan (although My Beautiful Man is my fav) and No 1 For you or Your Name Engraved Herein from Taiwan. Sorry, I know there are some good ones from the Philippines as well I just haven't watched those yet.
Quick edit to add that it would be fun to watch one of the Asian gay dating shows together.
Oh Gaya sa palikula is THE ultimate best Filipino bl!!! A must watch
Old Fashioned Cupcake is such a fast, easy watch. It would be a great palate cleanser after KinnPorsche.
BL is a very complicated genre with a long history dating back to the 1970s in Japan. It's always been controversial and hotly debated for the ways in which it romanticizes abuse and sexual assault and how it can represent gay men in very problematic ways. While BL is my absolute favorite genre, I recognize that for these reasons it's really not for everyone, and also really not for every queer person. All of your criticisms and discomfort with it is very valid. That being said, in more recent years and decades, the problematic areas of the genre have been getting a lot better (less sexual assault, less homophobic and stereotypical representations of gay men) because queer people are more and more involved in making BL. As someone who loves BL, this has been a really exhilarating thing to see, in essence seeing the genre become queerer. I know you guys have gotten a lot of recommendations for BL series to watch (there are literally hundreds to choose from), but I think you would enjoy and it would be interesting for the channel if you reacted to BL written and directed by gay men or queer people. For instance, P'Jojo is an openly gay man who wrote and directed the MASSIVELY popular BL series Only Friends based on his and his community's life experiences. Then there's P'Aof who is also an openly gay man who wrote or directed Moonlight Chicken, Bad Buddy, Last Twilight, A Tale of a Thousand Stars, Dark Blue Kiss, and more. There's also P'Golf who was the first transperson elected to Thai parliament who directed The Eclipse and Wandee Goodday, which are series I absolutely love for how progressive their messages are. I love Kinnporsche and can overlook its problematic elements, but please do not think that all BL are similar to it. BL includes so many different types of stories from cute, fluffy, chaste high school romances, to Kinnporsche.
Yessssss all of this!
Only friends is my fave. I can rewatch it many times. I'm lobbying for that show haha. Because it can actually strike up conversations and lay bare issues that are taboo.
Takara Kun to Amagi Kun is an amazing Japanese bl to watch; it's cute and revolves around teenage love, The Eighth Sense is my favourite korean bl and blueming too, there is a lot better bl than KinnPorsche that I feel you guys would enjoy more, the ones that are cuter or filled with comedy, etc, not ones that are heavily deep in trauma (though a few involve traumatic experiences) or sex or nonconsent
After KinnPorshe I hope you guys react to more BL's
Not Me
Take of 1000 stars
Those are my favorites! so good
Yea I think this was a pretty crazy bl to start w 😅 there’s soooo many phenomenal ones out there. I hope this doesn’t damper your journey into them. People have been suggesting moonlight chicken which is so amazing!
Maybe you should start with bls like *2gether the series and 2nd seasin still 2gether* or *Bad Buddy* also a really good and cute BL they kinda give the vibe of young royals and Heartstopper i think you would really enjoy them
If u ever consider watching another BL I highly recommend 'My School President' !!! Its my personal favorite! (And a LOT less toxic than KinnPorsche lol)
Despite being a sort of enemies to lovers, I think Bad Buddy has the least toxic relationship I've ever seen. They were so lovely
THE VEGAS IMPRESSION AT 17:22 KILLED ME 😭
The song Porchey is writing/singing is the Love Theme for the show, (Why Don't You Stay?). It was playing the first time Kinn and Porsche kissed out on the doc. It's actually written and sung by Jeff Satur, who is the actor playing Kim/Wik (the youngest mafia brother).
Guys no matter how bad/toxic this might seem right now, pls pls don't drop it! its gonna get better and in my opinion Kinn also redeems himself (as much as thats possible yk)
I think for a wholesome yet heart wrenching BL series would be Love for Love's Sake. I can't express how much I love this series. I think it would be a good break from a BL like Kinnporsche. 💖💖💖
the bgm for the not consensual sex is because it's from Kinn's POV, which he thought that Porsche agree with it and wants him
Here come the answers ( parts of them ) to your questioning at the end of episode 4 . We all went through that .
KP is a more layered show than it seems at first. There are many hints and clues, some of them visuals, other s in a single line, or through the cinematography or plot choices . I promise, rewatching a few times will help a lot in that aspect !
I think that this show has become very popular because of its similarity to many fanfictions out there.
It was my first BL as well and I liked it but I wouldn't recommend it to someone who has just started to get into that genre. I believe that it is very complicated at first, I understand you, apart from all the good stuff happening. Kinn certainly deserves another chance, and I'm waiting impatiently for your next reaction !!
I’ll not give any spoilers but one thing I learned the first time I watched this series is …nobody is what they seem to be. It’s a crazy yet valid look into accepting who you are and fulfilling your parents expectations. I love how y’all guess what’s about to happen next by just spouting the most insane plot twists….and then it happens.
If you guys decide to continue exploring the BL genre afte KinnPorsche I highly recommend you to react to I Told Sunset About You (romantic, artistic, kind of "indie" BL production that won international awards), Manner of Death (mistery, drama, the story revolves around solving a crime), Moonlight Chicken (found family and one of the most fleshed out stories tbh) and maybe A tale of 1000 Stars (fantasy, sort of slice of life, very chill, pinning and cute). Love your reactions, guys!
The next episode is one of my favourites
Me too! I was excited to see some of the conversations that were had bc I wasn’t expecting them to happen.
wholesome BL recommendation: Boys Be Brave
this one is so sweet and the second to last episode made me cry i loved it
I highly recommend you to react to (from my perspective ) two of the most iconic ( If not the most iconic) Thai BLs of all time Which are:" Theory of Love" and "2gether" They are definitely One of the most watched en enjoyed bl in all the Industry They are very Famous and the storyline is cute, funny and great even if it has it's things. ALSO I SUUUPERRR RECOMEND YOU LAST TWILIGHT (IT HAS REPRESENTATITON OF BLIND PEOPLE AND PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN IN PRISON)
I would suggest Not me. It's one of my fav bl drama's ever, it's really good
We did warned u😂😂😂 it's so dark, traumatic and messed up, but this series definitely in a history book for their impact on people, I recommend pitbabe series, it's not dark but the story is very intriguing
There's been the trope in many BLs where different variations of SA are either glossed over or almost romanticised. A similar thing one might find in the old school straight romance novels with the very agressive/possesive male love interest. That has bleed over into fanfiction and further on in BLs in the earlier days of this genre back in 2016 and onward.
But these past 2 years many BL shows are dealing with, challeging or flipping some of these toxic ways to deal with such tropes and that's great to see. KinnPorsche was one of the first by showing the aftermath and how Porsche has his bodily autonomy taken from him from that act, and how it mentally affects him.
And yes, I agree with the odd choices of music. Personally I would have preferred that they didn't have the romantic music during Kinn and Porsche, but kept the unsettling mood the scene already had. If they had done that, then I actually think the scene with Porsche and Vegas on the bike, would work really well with the soft music, since it would be clearer Porsche is being fooled by Vegas in that moment. Like the music and Vegas are "fooling us".
I've gotten used to from many Asian shows and movies, how much looser they are with having all kinds of different moods in a show. How one can go from super dark to very silly. And that's a style I do like since it can do something much more fun or interesting in how the story is told, and it's different from other Western shows. But when dealing with more darker real life things like SA, that switch in tone can seem very jarring.
(I do love my fanfiction and I've read lots of the toxic tropes, but it can be different seeing that in a show with real people. For example, another fangirl friend of mine read the Fifty Shades of Grey books and had fun with them, since it reminded her of some of the cheesy/messy fanfic she's read before. But she said, seeing it displayed in the movies made it real uncomfortable to watch.
I'm also an advocate that we can have all the toxic tropes in any show, but it's all about how we handle them and what story we're trying to tell by adding them)
I feel like you should only blame yourselves for starting with kinnporsche 😂 which is also why i think it’d be amazing to continue your journey with I told sunset about you. As it is said to be one of the best ones made in the BL world and is extremely realistic where emotions and experienced go. It also gives you a peek on thai culture, amazing locations and has peak production.
AGREE
Finally, a comment suggesting ITSAY. I honestly don't understand why not that many people recommend it. Is it not that popular?
@@lillilmeowmeow4262 i really don’t know. I mean if you think about the cinematography by itself, there’s nothing quite like it. And i mean the artistic choices the production used be it the film-like quality, soundtracks etc. The plot is complete, none of those gaping plot holes (the usual for many bl’s in general) and the kids can really act. Maybe it’s too simple as a storyline for some but i’d even go as far as to call it a ”bl classic” which honestly no one should skip.
I can't wait for Vegas and Pete to come in, if u are looking for another masterpiece of a bl you can check out Last twilight, The eclipse or Until we meet again (i just realised that i might have spoiled something, i am SO sorry)
Yes, it's not over yet, still 9 more episodes to go, so anything may happen. No final judgement yet, although I have to say, based on the writers actions/behaviors toward the actors, nothing surprises me in this show.
@@heartsamessgaultier8562 i have watched the show and you aren't gonna be disappointed if u watch till the end....maybe a little BUT NOW ALOT
Well then correct your post if you know. THEY KEEP ASKING US NOT TO DO THIS, AND YOU HAVE GIVEN THEM A MASSIVE SPOILER ! Maybe going "oops" is not the most adequate way to solve the problem.
@@issey1456 excuse me don't be so rude, what's the point to correct my comment if they already saw it, my mind clicked minutes after i posted it and when i was back to delete it they have already liked it, the spoiler isn't massive i might just be talking about their characters getting more screen time, sorry i want to be a good person and apologise
Love in the Air was my first introduction to the world of BLs. I actually saw it on TH-cam first before I knew about all the apps. Then I watched it on an app and realized that it had a few spicy scenes that YT didn’t show. The main couples aren’t toxic and it is just a good, fluffy, palate cleanser after KP.
Uhh did we watch the same Love in the air???? Cause LITA is stupid toxic. Not to mention its just objectively not good from a production standpoint.
I love Prapai/Sky, mostly because I love Sky so much but LitA definitely falls into the toxic / problematic relationships category for me
@@jamiesilver7401 Hhahahahahahaha stupid toxic is the best description. LITA was that show that made me wonder wtf is wong with me for still liking it despite everything being off about it.
if you watch Cherry magic i think you will love it! it's a bit silly but it's really wholesome! kurosawa (the ML) is a whole green forest!, or love for love sake! it's also dark but so cute! Also, you have to keep in mind that it's all fictional, so there will be a lot of things that won't make sense. You will see a lot more of that in many other shows. You just have to turn your brain off for those moments, lol. BLs are made with the mindset of 'okay, this is fiction, I'm going to do what I want to please my and the viewers' fantasies' (not all of them are like that though, lol). If you want something realistic and better, then 'Your Name Engraved Herein' is one of the top ones. It's very sad and dark, though. I hope this helps!
I think if you want to see a BL with healthier relationships (because listen we love Kinnporsche, but we're not watching it for healthy relationships lol), Bad Buddy is a good one. It's more of a college romcom kind of deal, but like really good and serious at times. The director of that (who is openly gay) also directed Moonlight Chicken, which is another good one. My School President is another more wholesome one, though geared to a younger audience (more like teenagers). Cherry Magic (both the original Japanese version and the Thai remake) is another very wholesome show.
However all of these are more slice of life/school based shows. Some more action based BLs that have less unhealthy relationships would be Manner of Death, Triage, and The Sign (some of these still have like complicated/kinda toxic relationships but it's like that for other reasons than why Kinnporsche is).
I mean there's definitely space for darker relationships and I think BL being as large as it is, it makes sense that there's some really complicated and even dark relationships portrayed in it. There's a wide variety of stuff out there, some good, some bad. I think it's also difficult starting with Kinnporsche, because while the marks of the genre are present in it, it's not a good like cross section to judge the genre of Thai BL as a whole on.
I took the music choice as from one of the characters perspectives. The music in the hotel room that felt conflicting I read as Kinn’s emotion or feelings. And to me, the bike with Vegas sounding sort of tender was not as much about what we as viewers know to be the massive issue with Vegas but Porsche’s feelings in that moment. He felt some comfort and freedom for a moment because he was not in the know about Vegas. I found that to be the case a few different times in the show.
also bls are so unique all of them that you cant define them really.. i mean its not like romance or fantasy. here every show is reaally different
17:32 Yeah, as of my perspective I think the sound matches what Porsche felt at the time because he doesn't know what Vegas did and he feels nice and relax with him, but it's making us uncomfortable because we know what Vegas did
I know KinnPorsche can be quite a lot but please don't give up on the bl industry, there are some awesome bl series out there. Personally I would recommend Last Twilight, it tells a really beautiful and touching story. Anyway, I love your videos you guys are great!
Not all bl’s are as scorched as Kenn/Porsche, this was a breakout series.
I think you would like Twins or Love Is In the Air or a good one like HIStory 4 Close To You.
True! The music does reflect the characters mindset at a given scene.
Also again, like what others say, although the theme may not be morally right about a lot of things in this series, we must all remember that the plot is all about mafia and political correctness does not exist in that world. Again, not to say that it is right at all!
i actually can not wait for another one of these, your reactions are so funny but really insightful too. also, hope kinnporsche doesn't turn u off from bl as a whole, personally i rly love this series, but there are so many other storylines that r explored in thai bl that r def worth watching.
Not gonna lie the only reason i started watching KinnPorsche was because Jeff Satur was in it (Kim) im obsessed his music and his voice (its absolutely insane. His range is even more impressive. From his normal speaking voice you wouldn't expect him to have sucj a soft high singing voice. Plus he made a very famous OST for the show. Its actually the one that Porchay was singing) and im so glad i started watching it. And Barcodes (Porchay) voice irl is actually really good. From what ive heard of his stuff hes actually got a very impressive voice.
"I think we've got company" he says as he has a cold barrel of a gun pressed up against his temple and as Kinn can literally see the people holding the guns to his head
This next episode is my favorite of the entire show. It really shows their relationship growing alot more and how they can peacefully interact with each other for a while without trying to shoot each other or pointing guns at each other.
You should watch love in the air!! This show definitely has darker themes and the relationship isn’t one that the audience craves to see develop because of their character, but love in the air is a sweet love story which is still very representative!! Every character is amazing definitely one of my favourites!!!
Since ppl are suggesting other shows, my new obsession this first half of 2024 for BL was Tadaima Okaeri. It's a japanese anime BL and it is the first anime set in an omegaverse world. Usually there is a LOT of SA/ sub-dom themes in omegaverse due to the nature of the worldbuilding (pls read up on omegaverse for more context), but this show is the most wholesome cute fluffly family friendly healthy relationship dynamic BL I've ever seen and handles a lot of topics that can be translated into real life lessons.
The reason why there was romantic music behind Vegas and Porsche being on the motor bike was because this was the first moment where Porsche was happy in this dark period. Sure Vegas did a terrible deed but he was the one who made Porsche happy in that moment, whether he had an ulterior motive or not. The music was an indication of this final moment of peace after all the chaos and pain that happened.
I absolutely love watching you watch this. Kinn Porsche is one of my favourite BL shows from Thailand. It's a roller-coaster ride from start to finish and there are constantly surprises. Just remember that with all Thai BL, it's also meant to be entertaining and this is. Keep enjoying, love the ride.
I never understood who recommends KinnPorsche as an introduction to BL world
As far as thai bl, I think you should react to one of Aof last shows (Bad Buddy, Moonlight Chicken or Last Twilight) or I Told Sunset About You
From Korea, maybe The Eight Sense
The couples aren’t problematic, no SA or huge power play dynamics, very enjoyable to watch and get introduced to a new culture and a different kind of media
One thing that I do really like about exploring different lgbt dramas and shows from different countries is that each country has different and distinct themes. Obviously every drama is different but I like how you can kind of know what you’re getting into depending on where it was made, and it’s fun to figure those themes out too
I recommend another thai bl good vibe, healthy series = Last Twilight ภาพนายไม่เคยลืม , A tale of 1,000 star. นิทานพันดาว 😊
you should watch the eigth sense its so cute and has themes like mental health struggle and coming to terms with sexuality
Maybe they wanted to be out of their comfort zone for once.
I'm laughing so much at your comments on this video first because they are funny, and second, because there is always an innocent throw-away comment that makes chuckle because I know what is coming. Please just know that KinnPorsche is just one of a handful of bl's that are like this, most just either have you shouting in frustration at the characters due to a misunderstanding, breaking your heart because you've got so invested in the characters and something sad happens, or grinning like an idiot because the series is just a happy nice fluffy romance. Usually they are a mix of any two of the above, or sometimes all three. KinnPorsche is dark, gritty, uncomfortable to watch and understand at somepoints... but it had me coming back every week to watch it. I was watching sweeter fluffier stuff along side it that I could run to straight after to balance it all out and give my brain a rest though!
Guys, I love watching you react. You're great fun and very insightful. BL is really a sub-genre, closer to fanfiction than reality, so there's everything in there just like any romance story. I personally recommend Moonlight Chicken which is a more mature series set in reality and much more relatable characters, plot, and good actors. I'm really curious on your opinion. I think you'll find it enjoyable and sweet. Hope you have an amazing weekend!!
I just wanna thank you for the discovery of this series and the BL genre. Thanks to your reactions I just binge watched the entire season and I'm just hooked. This is so hilarious and crazy I love it, even if everything is so heightened and twisted from reality, I got really attached to the characters. And I've never laughed so hard at a series for being so overdramatic ❤😂
People already said this but I want to clarify this too, the type of relatiosnhip depicted in Kinnporsche isn't prevalent in all BL shows. There are many type of stories, some with incredible representation (I really recommend Not Me which depicts the fight for queer rights in Thailand and is directed by a trans woman) and some like Kinnporsche wich have problematic messages. I personally enjoyed watching kinnporsche, it has great acting and some interesting characters however it's not the best when introducing people to the BL genre specially when many say it's the best of all when in reality there are other stories which in my opinion have better representation and watching Kinnporsche first may lead people to think all BL are like that.
Many people already recommended really good thai BL series however this are my personal recommendations aside from Not Me:
- The Eclipse: It's about the struggle for the rights and freedom of students in Thailand and the strict rules to which they are subjected, it criticizes the hierarchy of power in this institutions and how they harm students. It is directed by a non-binary person and the story shows the protagonist's process of acceptance of his own sexuality as well as dealing with topics such as suicide and depression in a sensitive and respectful way.
- Last Twilight: One of the most loved recent Thai dramas and directed by Aof, a gay man who is one of the most important directors in the industry. It portrays the life of a university student who after an accident begins to lose his sight and how he finds peace within himself thanks to this guy who becomes his guide and support who also has his difficulties since he is a mechanic who spends some time after a fight in jail and after getting out he cannot find work because of his record.
- A Tale of Thousand Stars: From the same director of Last Twilight, this is one of the most popular BLs. We follow Tian, a rich man with a heart disease who is rebellious and spends all his time partying until one day he is about to die and is saved thanks to a heart transplant. He has a vision of the girl who gave him her heart and after this he has a desire to know what this girl's life was like. This is how he goes to this rural town of people with limited resources to become a teacher, like the girl was, and he meets the man she liked, a man of the military who is in charge of taking care of the town and with whom he will form a special connection.
I think this is the best of your reactions. Genuine reaction. I wanna see how you react and not be influenced by any comments.
I always saw the music in the bike scene as how Porsche was feeling (some much needed freedom to let his hair down with someone he thinks is nice to him) but I suppose it can be interpreted another way too. I found the show turned out to be quite aware of the toxic characters and their actions but perhaps they assume their audience is on the same level and they tend not to wave a sign saying “as a show we know this is bad, not romantic behaviour”. They also address things that happened earlier in the show later, which I wish I would’ve known earlier on because some characters are hard to support without the character development 😂
The next episode is one of my favourites in this entire series. I can't wait to see your reaction
i can recommend the japanese "old fashioned cupcake" I was left with only warm emotions after watching it, if you want to get angry/sad, then the movie "his" the situation that happened there infuriated me so much that I never want to watch it again :)
and also korean "you make me dance", "to my star"
Ah yes... the start of the mental roller coaster that is watching this show
I love lighthearted bl's so imagine my face when I watched kinnporche for the first time 😭 the production is amazing (hello budget) but I can't say it's my favourite story, it is good tho (and their acting and chemistry obvs is great)