Great story. Most of us are well familiar with P-51's shooting down ME-262's and a Hawker Sea Fury shooting down a Mig-15 and of course Mig-17's shooting down F-105's and F-4's but I had no idea an F-86 ever shot down a Mig-21 . Thanks for mining out this information!
In a "low speed" fight (still blindingly fast by WW2 standards) the 105 and F4 are at a disadvantage to a dedicated air fighter that has superior low speed capability. Also, the Mark 6 Saber had 50% more thrust and leading edge slats that made it twice the platform the original F86 was. Still, it was the Mig pilot's error getting in trapped in a turning fight with the far more maneuverable Mark 6. He should have run after he missed his initial attack.
Nice video as always. And yes this loss of a MiG-21 in air to air combat on 17 Dec 1971 over Pasrur in Pakistan is confirmed by IAF records. The pilot was Flight Lieutenant Tejwant Singh who ejected and was a POW till his repatriation in Nov 1972.
Also read abou how pekistan surrendered with 93000 troops and about pilot Parvaiz Mehdi Qureshi's plane was shot down in 1971. He was saved by an Indian captain & was PoW in India
@@_hunterz_ Which is why we are celebrating 50 years of Bangladesh's independence. We are also proud of how PAF contributed in you losing all your wars. 😝
Recently Scotland was buzzed by a Russian TU -124 Bear Maritime Reconnaissance aircraft and the RAF in their Typhoons could not fly slow enough to escort them!
Here's an interesting fact, both the Pakistani Sabre Pilot and the Indian Mig-21 pilot who got shot down were classmates in the US during the 60s when both the PAF and IAF would send their student pilots there to train, and they had both flown F-86s!
Couple of things. The Sabers were the Canadair Mark 6 bought from Canada which retired the aircraft in the early 60s. They had 50% more thrust than early 50s Saber and had leading edge slats with no wing fences as shown in your video. When the Mig 21 lost its speed advantage it put the Saber into a position of strength because the Mark 6 was possibly the best air fighter in the classic sense ever produced. The Mig could not turn with the Saber at all. Canada retired the F86 because the introduction of the afterburner made it obsolete as an interceptor which is essentially what the Mig 21 was and, amazingly, still is. The Mig should have run away after it missed its first pass but it chose to fight a fight where the Mark 6 had the "low speed" advantage.
Thanks for the details. As for the difference in the type used here, there's just one model available in DCS World. Trying to be 100% historically accurate would be almost impossible.
@@showtime112 I understand. The air fighting ability of the last generation of Sabers was legendary which no doubt allowed the Saber pilot to get behind the Mig. Afterburner technology changed the game and tactics forever which despite its superior maneuverability made the Saber obsolete.
Pakistan bought 90 ex Luftwaffe Orenda engined sabres via Iran as Pakistan was under an Arms embargo by the U.S .Needless to say that the U.S would have given a wink and a nod to the Shah of Iran to go ahead and do this deal with the Luftwaffe . These 90 Canadair sabres arrived just in time to be operational with the PAF during the 1971 war with India
Actually the date was 17 december 1971, one day after the official end of the war and PAF pilot Maqsood Amir flying his F-86 shot down an IAF Mig-21 flown by Fl Lt Tejwant Singh
Yeah and pak surrender with 93000 after the genocide of local Bengali ppl...thanks iaf for liberating a democracy from islamic fundamentalism..which is also military dictatorship.
@@sandeep_reddy22, Says a citizen from a HindutvaN@zi Hindu Rashtra whose ancestors lived under the thumb of their betters for 1,000 years, as accepted by Sri Surrender Mozi Zee in front of the Lal Fort in his 15th August 2023 address. In 48 liberated 1/3rd of Kashmir from the Hindu Rashtra, in 65 took land in Rann of Kutch after utter defeat forcing Hindu Rashtra to run to UNSC, in 71 took Chamb in the Western sector, in 99 took vital peaks (that are still retained) in the Kargil sector from the HIndu rashtra. All this while being 4 times smaller than the HindutvaN@zi Hindu rashtra. The only time Hindu Rashtra prevailed was when Pakistan was mired in a civil war in a territory 1,000 kms away from West Pakistan where the majority (Bengalis were the largest ethnic group of united Pakistan) was up against a minority (all West Pakistanis combined were less in number in census records than the East Pakistan population). Against peer China, Hindu Rashtra gave away a territory the size of Switzerland (Aksai Chin) to China, and the entire war was fought on Indian territory, with China unilaterally withdrawing forces, facing literally no opposition in the 1962 war. In contrast, the 4 times smaller Pakistan has always taken the war to the territory of Hindu Rashtra in the process, capturing hundreds of square miles in each war fought.
To be noted in 1965 india just recived migs from russia they were new and when pakistan did phatankot strike most of the migs were unused and got destroyed in indo 1965
I found it spelled Maqsood. He did pull a really good barrel roll but he was helped by the fact that the MiG wingman was probably inexperienced and didn't react properly. But then again, most shootdowns happen because the victim failed to do something.
They were other MiG 21 shot down by Sabres in both the 1965 & 1971 war. In1965, MiG loses were well over 25. It's because at low speed & altitudes, the Sabre performs better then the Hunter & Mig You can go all this info from the IAF website
'Flt Lt Tejwant Singh had ironically gone down to the Sabre, an aircraft that he had himself trained on during the Combat Crew Training Course done in USA in 1964. His friendship with some of the PAF pilots during the course may also have been instructive in some ways, for to ‘know thy enemy’ is a familiar dictum of warfare. The superior performance of the MiG-21, versus the Sabre, was another factor of consequence in the dogfight. In the final analysis, however, it is the man behind the gun that makes the difference.' Great Air Battles of Pakistan Air Force by Air Cdre Kaiser Tufail
MIG 21s are faster than sabres and these jets have sill the power to chase an F 16 But now these migs are considered as the pilot killer , it even has a nickname "THE FLYING COFFIN" I don't know why these are still being used in our Air force Even MIG 27s are retired from Air force but MIG 21s are not
Guys who are suggesting that he is biased please stop it. He is just trying to present the facts to us. Being an Indian, yes it bothers me that he didnt make videos from our side, but he is doing a great job. If I am sure, IAF acquired MiGs very recently,maybe around 1964(I am not sure). If these are the facts,then lets accept them,we won the war,might have lost quite a few new and old aircrafts. maybe we were inferior in air combat, but won naval and ground. Chill. He is just recreating what happened. And the hate in comments is natural, US and UK sided with Pakistan most of the time. Chill.
Well, thanks for this comment and its general tone. I need to correct you a bit. There are two videos on this channel in which Indian MiG-21s shoot down Pakistani F-104s. Also, there's a video about the 2019. clash in which both stories were reenacted and I can assure you, there were many angry Pakistanis because I suggested that it was possible for Indian MiG-21 to shoot down a Pakistani F-16. I should probably organize playlists on the channel a little differently, do one about Indo-Pak wars. One of the problems with India is that there aren't many assets in DCS flown by India in those wars. There's basically just MiG-21. On Pakistani side, there's Sabre, MiG-19, F-16....
@@showtime112 yes I understand. I am yet to watch all the videos,so. Well from your side you are recreating certain historical battles,but people really need to chill. You aren't tampering the facts but presenting them as they are. Great work. Yes I would definitely love to watch your video on balakot strike response.
To see the tales of my grandparents in action really gives a bold idea on how nerve racking 3rd gen dogfights looked like. I am from Bangladesh (previously East pakistan) and seeing a fight from our founding generation is really thrilling must say
My Grandfather( Dadaji) was In East Pakistan( currently Bangladesh) In 1971 war. He was 19 Years old At That time. He was an IAF Wing Commander. He Told me everything about the war and how they fought.. I am Proud To be an Indian And a part Of a Wing Commanders Grandson.. JAI HIND..
Můj překlad:Poslední den indicko-paksitanského konfliktu v roce 1971 odstartovala dvojice F-86 Sabres na misi CAP. Brzy je odhalily indické pozemní radary a dvojice MiGů-21 byla vyslána, aby je zachytila. Indické MiGy létající na velmi nízké úrovni dokázaly proklouznout pod pákistánskými Sabres a umístit se za nimi. Situace vypadala jako snadné zabití pro nadřazeného bojovníka a pákistánský velitel letu Flt Lt Maqsood Amir věděl, že nemůže uniknout. Jeho jedinou možností bylo bojovat. Toto je další reenactment z Indo-Pak války z roku 1971 s použitím DCS World jako platformy.
Under right circumstances, aircraft from older generations can shoot down more recent (and much faster) ones. MiG-17s shot down plenty of F-105s and Phantoms for example.
Wild that 6 .50 caliber heavy machine guns firing a combined 3600rpm can still be devastatingly effective in an era dominated by 20, 30, 37, and 57mm cannons
True, they could still work. Interestingly, there was a cannon armed Sabre and it was actually sent to Korea late in the war. There will be a video about that someday.
Good depiction and balanced source based commentary. I believe the pilot of the Mig 21 shot down was Flt. Lt. Tejwant Singh…and I think the date of this engagement is the 17th of December….just before the ceasefire in the Indian western sector.On the 16th the Pakistan Army in the Indian Eastern sector (now Bangladesh) had surrendered unconditionally.
Sabre shoots down a Mig-21... with gunfire! Impressive. Goes to show that it is the man and not the machine that makes the difference at the end of the day.
True. I also think there was a bit of luck involved because the MiG had to be placed a certain way to enable the hit. It took me quite a few attempts to get it right while doing this video :)
Indian pilot screwed up... the old force overshoot trick.....the other MiG 21 could extend away...they were not designed for dog fighting but as high speed interceptor...they will wobble if not kept at high speed....Thanks for another great show\history lesson.
Good video. The MIG-21 (wingman) was shot at a high angle off (not straight and level). The cine (gun camera film) showed that clearly. Speaks highly of the PAF pilot (Flt Lt Maqsood Amir) and the A-4 gunsight of the F-86. Yes, Tejwant Singh had received training on the F-86 in USA with PAF pilots, but Flt Lt Maqsood was not one of them. He was trained in Pakistan.
WOW，Battle of fighters of the two eras. This is very interesting The lower-speed has better maneuverability, with a smaller turning radius and using traditional dogfighting tactics and fires machine guns to shoot down more advanced fighters at close range.
Yup, it worked in this case. The Sabre pilot pulled out a good maneuver. He was probably quite lucky too, avoiding the missile and then having the second MiG in front of him.
the two contenders the f-86a-sabre of the pakitani air force. the other rival was mikoyan mig-21-fishbed of the indian air force. the f-86 was a victorious fighter.
Good ol F86 Sabre.Used to great effect by the Paf to knock IAF to its senses.Also used to good effect against IAF airfields with daring daytime raids on Halwara and Pathankot airfields amongst others….
Even relics can sometimes be effective :) I think it is true. And the Sabre pilot was a bit lucky too. I know because I had to try many times until I got it right 😁
I would take the Sabre in a low level turn and burn against a MIG 21 any day, the Sabre can out turn the MIG and six rapid firing 50 cals can tear anything a new asshole. The MIG's speed is the big advantage it had over the Sabre and apparently the inexperienced Indian pilot wasn't using it to his advantage, instead of fighting a MIG's fight, he was down low fighting a Sabre's fight and he lost.
¡¡Excelente!!.. ¡Es como si yo mismo hubiese estado "flotando" al lado de ellos! Congratulations Showtime112! Tienes buena información histórica.. con fuentes que obviamente las dan restringidas por ser muchas veces "confidencial" por la guerra y también porque solo la da el Ganador de la batalla y no el perdedor.. Saludos desde Lima-Perú 02/Set/2021... CONGRATULATIONS Showtime112!!!
Svaka čast majstore !!! Odličan video. Ovo mi je tako dobro, da jednostavno imam osjećaj kao da gledam neki visokobudžetni film. Nevjerojatno. Svaki put se impresioniram kad ovo vidim. A gledao sam da taj DCS nije ni lako naučit, rećemo, igrat. Kao da imaš "manual" za upravljanje avionom od 500 stranica...preteško jednostavno. Baš me zanima što imaš od opreme, ovo su ipak 2K videozapisi...odnosno ne znam dal je ovaj ali ovo što sam gledao su većinom bili. Želim ti sve najbolje za Božić, i da dođeš pa evo već ove nove godine do milijun subova jel mislim da si zaslužio. Ovakav kontent (sadržaj) rad, trud i sve ovo istraživanje uklopit u jedan video...nemam komentara...nadam se da se ostala publika slaže sa mnom (iako je malo ovo prenaglašeno za neke, ali s pravom naglašeno) Pozdrav😃
Puno hvala na ovako pozitivnom komentaru. Točno je da je DCS zahtjevan ali kad se ufuraš, postane način života 😁. Od opreme imam jednu osrednjuPC konfiguraciju, Thrustmaster HOTAS i Delanclip head tracker. Malo-pomalo to poboljšavam i drugi DCS kanali imaju jedno 4-5 puta skuplju opremu od mene, ali mi iz ovih krajeva smo svi majstori za izvlačenje dobrih rezultata iz skromne opreme 😁😁😁
Can you make a video on great air Battles of indo pak 1965 & 1971 wars , in the eastern theatre it is said paf had only one fighter squadron up against 12 iaf squadron...thanks mate !!!
Thanks for the suggestions. 1965. is a problem because there are no aircraft types in DCS flown by India in that conflict. 1971. is better, some types are there as mods or as high-fidelity modules. Hopefully, some types such as Hunter or Canberra become available in the future. This will give more options.
I really don't know i go crazy when i see aircrafts and fighter jets since my childhood, maybe it came in my blood since my father was a pilot who passed away due to covid on April 27th this year , anyways bro just wanted to know wat is dcs, as far as my understanding is it high quality animation .
@@fardinakbar8380 DCS World is a flying simulation. The most realistic one that focuses on military aircraft. You can play the basic package for free (two airplanes and two maps). Other aircraft. maps and campaigns can be bought but there's a two week free trial for them too. This is their web site: www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/
@@showtime112 also, make something on Carrier ops done by India in 1971 over East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) Also, theres an incident where 2 MiG-21 along with Hawker Hunter attacked Dhaka Airstrip and after effectively disabling the airstrip Migs performed a loop over the airbase to give Pakistanis a show The loop was done by IAF Air Commodore SS "Bundal" Tyagi, you can even listen to him on 'The Fighter Pilot Podcast' on Mig-21
@@apoorvchauhan6258 Hunter is not available. It might be someday which will give me a lot more options. I actually listened to the Fighter Pilot Podcast episode but I should probably listen again for the details of that raid.
It would be awesome if u could recreate the pathankot mission of 65 some of the Indians new 21 were destroyed and overall a lot havoc on base it would be awesome if u could 🙏
A very nice simulation but may not have worked in real life. It would be the equivalent of a Heinkel He 51 taking on a Spitfire I and winning. Might happen once in unique circumstances but cannot be relied upon to happen normally. The usual opponent of the F-86 was either the Folland Gnat or the Hawker Hunter and at times in 1965 the Ouragan. And while the Gnat more than held its own against the larger jet, the Hunter being heavier and larger than the F-86 found it hard to win a turning dog fight. What helped the Hunter was its gun pack of 30mm cannon which could destroy a F-86 in short order. But by 1965 the F-86 was obsolescent and by 1971 it was obsolete and so it's higher losses can be justified.
In my opinion, this took several factors to 'click' together. I know because I had to repeat the scene many times until I got it right 😁 But an older aircraft can under right circumstances defeat a more modern one. A typical example might be Vietnamese use of MiG-17 against much more modern Phantoms and Thuds. There's also the story of an Iranian F-5 shooting down an Iraqi MiG-25. It was relatively slow because it was trying to shoot down a transport airplane.
I definitely enjoyed the video, but the graphics are awesome 👌. Good video and you're absolutely Right the pilot and knowledge of the strength and weaknesses of your opponent is Critical.
This video is proof of "it's not the plane, it's the pilot." It is not surprising a pilot "in tune" with his plane, no matter how old or outdated, can defeat a better plane with a less experienced pilot. You can give any pilot the best and most advanced aircraft out there. However, if he does not know his machine, then you will not get that far. The aircraft is only as good as the pilot uses it.
Fun fact during the indo pak war of 1965 the F86 sabres of Pakistan shot down 9 hunter aircraft, 4 vampires and 2 gnat of the indian airforce and were successful in attacking aircraft on the ground which resulted in 36 indian aircraft being destroyed on the ground alone.MM alam a pakistani ace flying his sabre sshot down 5 indian shot down 5 indian jets in a minute. And during the 1971 war Pakistan shot down 31 indian aircraft in air to air combat these included 17 hawker hunters, 8 sukhoi su 7 ,1 mig 21 and 2 gnat despite being outnumbered in east Pakistan where there was only 1 Pakistan squardon compared to the nealry the entire indian airforce. The most interesting battle was the battle of boyra where 2 pakistani sabres faced 4 indian mig 21. The PAF were abled to shoot down 1 mig 21 and losing none of its own despite Pakistan losing the 1971 war because of the complexity of the war for Pakistan the sabres performed really really well .
awsome job, being an indian supporter it hurts, but we note that you are not biased as i've noted you recent videos are becoming towards india as well, furthermore ignore people who say biased, they get blinded by 1 aerial battle which was insignificant as fizziuck. good job keep goin
Thank you for this feedback! I'm glad to see there are people who think like that. There are indeed many from both India and Pakistan who are very passionate, and not in a good way 😁
GS is more of a gaming/entertainment channel. This is more of a history/documentary channel. It's logical that he has more views. A James Bond movie will always get more views than a documentary about real agents 😁 I think that the MiG-21 pilot was actually in a turn when he was hit. But that's proven to be extremely hard to reenact in DCS, AI behaves in a certain way. It was a combination of factors, including luck in my opinion.
@@showtime112 yeah I know what you mean brother, but still i'm speaking to the fact that I wish people kind of had a taste to learn about history. Because if you don't know your history you're damned to repeat it some wise man said.
Back music add extra color and flavor beside commentry show time is a cool guy I must say I ve watched this video six time.animation of barrel role so cool one of legendary PAF pilot MM Alam once said that barrel role is something which many times turn the table over adversary if the pilot know what he is doing..
It could be done with Trackview. It's a software which records all the movement and action in simulations such as DCS. However, very often in these videos, it's not just one single battle but rather a combination of elements to mane them as close to the historical events. So the 3D presentation wouldn't necessarily be that useful.
@@showtime112 Thanks for sharing the information about the track view software. I agree that in a complex engagement with a lot of manoeuvring track view would not be very useful to clarify the significant tactical elements involved.However not all the engagements during the 65 and 71 wars involved prolonged manoeuvring or turns (perhaps a few scissors at most).The famous Boyra Gnat versus Sabre engagement in Nov 71 being one such case in point. Being an armchair air combat enthusiast… I would really like to be able to visualise the decisive manoeuvre in 3 dimensions to understand what happened.For instance in this engagement the Mig 21s appear to have started from a position of advantage….but subsequent to the missiles failure to hit …the wingman appears to have strayed into the lead Sabres kill zone.So tactically it would be interesting to see how that happened. The good thing is that a lot of the fighter pilots involved are still around….and it should be possible to re-create an accurate tactical picture for the historical record… now that the technology is available.
@@ivanjalaluddin4458 Generally, from what I can tell, air to air combat rarely lasts very long. And usually, the victim is not aware of the attack. In this particular case, MiG-21s had the advantage but their missile missed (they are not called missiles for nothing 😁). The Sabre pilot was aware of the situation and he pulled a high-g barrel roll. The MiG leader anticipated it and countered with an climbing maneuver. But the MiG wingman wasn't prepared so he didn't respond accordingly.
@@showtime112 Climbing is not the correct maneuver unless the MIG is already at close to top speed, above 1000 kmph, then it is, horizontal or a dive if possible until 1000kph is. Something funny happened to that Mig21, he turned and burned to bellow 700 or so and then failed to afterburn to get away for some reason. That, or the Mark 6 is crazy fast subsonic if it has 50% more power than original f86s and caught the mig21 with his own afterburner. slats would slow it down in turns, probably weren't used if it was a simple and short high speed barrel roll. Edit: I should note, it's a correct manouver if you are behind the F86, definitely not if you are overshooting as these boys did.
@Mukesh Sharma Oh you mean dreams like shooting down an F16 with an invisible missile from a downed Mig or clouds blocking the radar coverage or maybe a machine making gold out of aalu? trust me mate I've had my fair share of dreams
@Mukesh Sharma no offense taken bcz it might be impossible for you (like many other things i.e having toilets for an instance) but for us it isn't and deep down you yourself know that if your military is really that capable as you're saying then you would have annexed all of Pakistan as of now, no? bcz I've heard this typical housewife bickering about annexing Pakistan from our eastern border from some time now. but its okay y'all can keep bringing up 71 war and relive that one golden moment your country ever had in its miserable existence because We learn from our mistakes and defeats also We don't manipulate the facts but you people OMG lmao. I'm just gonna end it here before it escalates and the author of this awesome page bans me cz of some pajeet.
@@R7700-f1k Do you know illiterate YT what does delusional stand for? well i am not like you who use the google translater for reply,go kid improve your grammer first country's economy is so poor well try to improve it bro."Lollywood" lol what a sucking name.:D
During 1965 war 4 F86 sabres bombed Halwara airbase and destroyed 8 Mig21 on ground. they couldn't get in the air to defend the airbase. apart from that whole base was destroyed and saw no action for rest of the war
To all people who are saying feeling bad for India, I just wanna say if don't know much than see the full details of 1971 war, how Pakistan surrendered with 93000 troops, remember losing a dogfight doesn't mean u won a war. Also to all Americans who are humilating India, why you went away with ur 7th fleet from Indian Ocean when you realised Soviet Ships were ready with nukes and missiles😂, lol Pakistan came to sink our aircraft carrier but they lost there submarine which was bought from USA.
Mr. Allan u intervene in our civil war,and benefited from our internal conflict. 93000 include a lot of civilans, further east pakistanies were 1000 km away from west pakistan, an area whr 99% people wre against pakistan.in this way even sri lankan army could even claim victory. And last PAF was in embargo from us. Whrre as ussr panted mig 21 factory in india in 1966.
Mr Allan your country was using regular forces against Pakistan in the East Pakistan since November 1971 , please research this for your knowledge .It's India which started the war .
@@nedee1111 Indians were helping mukti bahini, because a lot of people were coming from Bangladesh to India, have some shame on your army who has raped 400000 hindu women, and also check wikipedia that how the war started after all bombing 11 airbases in India by PAF
You are distorting the history F 104 downed mystere as hitting due to fast speed Devya has no time to eject and killed while F104 pilot Amjad Husain bailed out safely he requested the villager to buried Devya body which they did.
The Finns have used Soviet-designed aircraft - is there any record of them using the Soviet aircraft to chase foreign aircraft out of Finnish air space?
There are a couple of interviews with Finnish pilots on Aircrew Interview. I think they may have mentioned something like that but I don't recall the details.
Check out M Kaiser Tufail's book "Great Battles of Pakistan Air Force" pages 128-129 which lists all the PAF air victories during the 1965 and 1971 wars. These records are confirmed kills cross-checked from Indian sources. So while most Pakistanis have grown up with the story of Squadron Leader M M Alam having shot down 5 Indian Hunters in one mission, the book sets the record straight that in fact 3 were shot down and the other 2 made it back to base. So yes indeed F/L Tejwant Singh was shot down and became POW.
HAQ KLMA A PAK. HAQ I HAVE SEEN MANY MANY DOG FIGHTS BETWEEN PAKISTANI & INDIAN WAR PLANES , P A F ABSOLUTELY ZBRDST ALLAHA PAK SLAMT RKHAY . ALLAHA Huma AMEEN. ( 1965 & 1971 ) G A G : P. A. F
Hahahahahah do you think a sabre of pakistani airforce can ever in its wildest dreams shoot down an INDIAN airforce MIG21 which was the most modern aircraft of its time🤣🤣
Wow, man! What an incredibly powerful argument! An older type can never, under no circumstances shoot down a more recent type. You must be a great expert. And I'm guessing you are Indian which means you probably believe that Abhinandan shot down a Pakistani F-16 in his MiG-21. Btw, MiG.21 was nowhere near the most modern aircraft of that time.
Really like your videos. In your opinion, is the Indo Pakistani conflict one of those rare occasions where Soviet equipment has outperformed US equipment in aerial combat?
Thank you very much!! There's no easy answer to that question because the situation was a bit more complex. Indians also used many Western aircraft and MiG-21s were available in much greater numbers than the F-104s. Pakistanis were also displaying some questionable tactics. Even if Soviet equipment performed well, it certainly wasn't just due to the equipment itself. But then again, you could say the same about the use of Western equipment in 1967 Arab-Israeli war.
Actually it was quite the opposite. If you look at most impartial records of both the 65 and 71 wars you will find that the PAF had better kill ratio and bombing accuracy despite being heavily outnumbered.
@@showtime112 yes. You got it right. He shot down tejwant Singh who survived. He visited him in the hospital whereupon tejwant told him: “I’ll get you in the next war.”
@showtime112 you should make video on dog fight happened in East Pakistan sector. Some of the best best dogfights were fought over gauhati, Tejgaon, dhaka and hasimara.
![เปิด อาณาจักร หมื่นล้าน "สาระตั้ม" l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3XE0nPF4YkQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Great story. Most of us are well familiar with P-51's shooting down ME-262's and a Hawker Sea Fury shooting down a Mig-15 and of course Mig-17's shooting down F-105's and F-4's but I had no idea an F-86 ever shot down a Mig-21 . Thanks for mining out this information!
Thanks for your comment! It is kinda fun when an underdog wins :)
@@showtime112 and of course when F-105's shoot down Mig-17's
@@jasonshuster4748 Also a kind of an underdog wins scenario 😁
@@jasonshuster4748 yes and for that matter A-1’s shooting down a Mig-17
In a "low speed" fight (still blindingly fast by WW2 standards) the 105 and F4 are at a disadvantage to a dedicated air fighter that has superior low speed capability. Also, the Mark 6 Saber had 50% more thrust and leading edge slats that made it twice the platform the original F86 was. Still, it was the Mig pilot's error getting in trapped in a turning fight with the far more maneuverable Mark 6. He should have run after he missed his initial attack.
Nice video as always. And yes this loss of a MiG-21 in air to air combat on 17 Dec 1971 over Pasrur in Pakistan is confirmed by IAF records. The pilot was Flight Lieutenant Tejwant Singh who ejected and was a POW till his repatriation in Nov 1972.
Thanks for that!
@IC1101 Sure. My mom's uncle was flight leader... Roy Massey.
Also read abou how pekistan surrendered with 93000 troops and about pilot Parvaiz Mehdi Qureshi's plane was shot down in 1971. He was saved by an Indian captain & was PoW in India
One Mig21 cost 1 fantastic tea
@@_hunterz_ Which is why we are celebrating 50 years of Bangladesh's independence. We are also proud of how PAF contributed in you losing all your wars. 😝
It's very interesting when an older airplane can confront a newer one and win.
Yeah, it's cool when an 'unfair' fight ends unexpectedly. Ooops, spoiler :)
Recently Scotland was buzzed by a Russian TU -124 Bear Maritime Reconnaissance aircraft and the RAF in their Typhoons could not fly slow enough to escort them!
@@barriereid9244 Imagine that problem, maybe they should use Tucanos for the Bears 😁
@@barriereid9244 The Bear is a TU-95.
Just Like How IAF MIG-21 Downed a F-16 of PAF
Here's an interesting fact, both the Pakistani Sabre Pilot and the Indian Mig-21 pilot who got shot down were classmates in the US during the 60s when both the PAF and IAF would send their student pilots there to train, and they had both flown F-86s!
That is interesting. A very rare thing in the Cold War.
@@showtime112 Actually it was extremely common for the Indians and Pakistanis.
@@dragonstormdipro1013 Sure, I meant compared to other conflicts. Can you imagine Israelis and Arabs being trained together? :)
@@showtime112 India and Pakistan has very weird relationship lol :D
Wait wasn't india a close ally to the ussr at that time?
They would've sent pilots to france and the uk but for the US it's doubtful
Couple of things. The Sabers were the Canadair Mark 6 bought from Canada which retired the aircraft in the early 60s. They had 50% more thrust than early 50s Saber and had leading edge slats with no wing fences as shown in your video. When the Mig 21 lost its speed advantage it put the Saber into a position of strength because the Mark 6 was possibly the best air fighter in the classic sense ever produced. The Mig could not turn with the Saber at all. Canada retired the F86 because the introduction of the afterburner made it obsolete as an interceptor which is essentially what the Mig 21 was and, amazingly, still is. The Mig should have run away after it missed its first pass but it chose to fight a fight where the Mark 6 had the "low speed" advantage.
Thanks for the details. As for the difference in the type used here, there's just one model available in DCS World. Trying to be 100% historically accurate would be almost impossible.
@@showtime112 I understand. The air fighting ability of the last generation of Sabers was legendary which no doubt allowed the Saber pilot to get behind the Mig. Afterburner technology changed the game and tactics forever which despite its superior maneuverability made the Saber obsolete.
Would agree.That was a tactic that the MIG 21 used in Vietnam which worked.Hit and run.
@@eugeneoreilly9356 it's the dominant form of air engagement now. A well trained fighter pilot will be taught air fighting it but likely never use it.
Pakistan bought 90 ex Luftwaffe Orenda engined sabres via Iran as Pakistan was under an Arms embargo by the U.S .Needless to say that the U.S would have given a wink and a nod to the Shah of Iran to go ahead and do this deal with the Luftwaffe . These 90 Canadair sabres arrived just in time to be operational with the PAF during the 1971 war with India
Actually the date was 17 december 1971, one day after the official end of the war and PAF pilot Maqsood Amir flying his F-86 shot down an IAF Mig-21 flown by Fl Lt Tejwant Singh
That's correct. I only noticed the mistake after uploading.
On 16 December the war was ended on eastern border not on western border, The war on western border ended few days after 16 December
Yeah and pak surrender with 93000 after the genocide of local Bengali ppl...thanks iaf for liberating a democracy from islamic fundamentalism..which is also military dictatorship.
@@sandeep_reddy22 whats the point? soon IAF is gonna be defeated again as usual.
@@sandeep_reddy22, Says a citizen from a HindutvaN@zi Hindu Rashtra whose ancestors lived under the thumb of their betters for 1,000 years, as accepted by Sri Surrender Mozi Zee in front of the Lal Fort in his 15th August 2023 address. In 48 liberated 1/3rd of Kashmir from the Hindu Rashtra, in 65 took land in Rann of Kutch after utter defeat forcing Hindu Rashtra to run to UNSC, in 71 took Chamb in the Western sector, in 99 took vital peaks (that are still retained) in the Kargil sector from the HIndu rashtra. All this while being 4 times smaller than the HindutvaN@zi Hindu rashtra. The only time Hindu Rashtra prevailed was when Pakistan was mired in a civil war in a territory 1,000 kms away from West Pakistan where the majority (Bengalis were the largest ethnic group of united Pakistan) was up against a minority (all West Pakistanis combined were less in number in census records than the East Pakistan population). Against peer China, Hindu Rashtra gave away a territory the size of Switzerland (Aksai Chin) to China, and the entire war was fought on Indian territory, with China unilaterally withdrawing forces, facing literally no opposition in the 1962 war. In contrast, the 4 times smaller Pakistan has always taken the war to the territory of Hindu Rashtra in the process, capturing hundreds of square miles in each war fought.
To be noted in 1965 india just recived migs from russia they were new and when pakistan did phatankot strike most of the migs were unused and got destroyed in indo 1965
The F 86 has to be one of the most classic designs in jet fighters.
Wow, an F-86 shot down a Mig-21! Masood (forgive me if I spelled his name wrong) was one heck of a fighter pilot!
I found it spelled Maqsood. He did pull a really good barrel roll but he was helped by the fact that the MiG wingman was probably inexperienced and didn't react properly. But then again, most shootdowns happen because the victim failed to do something.
Either that or the other guy wasn't that great of a pilot. I doubt a Russian pilot piloting that MIG would had been shot down...
@@jsprite123 yeah, you're most likely right about that.
They were other MiG 21 shot down by Sabres in both the 1965 & 1971 war. In1965, MiG loses were well over 25. It's because at low speed & altitudes, the Sabre performs better then the Hunter & Mig
You can go all this info from the IAF website
@@ashtonbailey3970 why don't you post the link here of the IAF link where that data is available.
'Flt Lt Tejwant Singh had ironically gone down to the Sabre, an aircraft that he had himself trained on during the Combat Crew Training Course done in USA in 1964. His friendship with some of the PAF pilots during the course may also have been instructive in some ways, for to ‘know thy enemy’ is a familiar dictum of warfare. The superior performance of the MiG-21, versus the Sabre, was another factor of consequence in the dogfight. In the final analysis, however, it is the man behind the gun that makes the difference.'
Great Air Battles of Pakistan Air Force by Air Cdre Kaiser Tufail
Sabare were alwaya superior
@@thelostlondoner3344 vs a mig-21??? Lol
MIG 21s are faster than sabres and these jets have sill the power to chase an F 16
But now these migs are considered as the pilot killer , it even has a nickname "THE FLYING COFFIN"
I don't know why these are still being used in our Air force
Even MIG 27s are retired from Air force but MIG 21s are not
Guys who are suggesting that he is biased please stop it. He is just trying to present the facts to us. Being an Indian, yes it bothers me that he didnt make videos from our side, but he is doing a great job. If I am sure, IAF acquired MiGs very recently,maybe around 1964(I am not sure). If these are the facts,then lets accept them,we won the war,might have lost quite a few new and old aircrafts. maybe we were inferior in air combat, but won naval and ground. Chill. He is just recreating what happened. And the hate in comments is natural, US and UK sided with Pakistan most of the time. Chill.
Well, thanks for this comment and its general tone. I need to correct you a bit. There are two videos on this channel in which Indian MiG-21s shoot down Pakistani F-104s. Also, there's a video about the 2019. clash in which both stories were reenacted and I can assure you, there were many angry Pakistanis because I suggested that it was possible for Indian MiG-21 to shoot down a Pakistani F-16. I should probably organize playlists on the channel a little differently, do one about Indo-Pak wars.
One of the problems with India is that there aren't many assets in DCS flown by India in those wars. There's basically just MiG-21. On Pakistani side, there's Sabre, MiG-19, F-16....
@@showtime112 yes I understand. I am yet to watch all the videos,so. Well from your side you are recreating certain historical battles,but people really need to chill. You aren't tampering the facts but presenting them as they are. Great work. Yes I would definitely love to watch your video on balakot strike response.
@@anirbandey2534 Thanks for the comment! I will certainly cover more aspects of the Indo-Pak wars as much as circumstances allow.
To see the tales of my grandparents in action really gives a bold idea on how nerve racking 3rd gen dogfights looked like. I am from Bangladesh (previously East pakistan) and seeing a fight from our founding generation is really thrilling must say
Well, I'm glad you found the video interesting! Thanks for the comment!
Love mukti baheni from Pakistan 😘
My Grandfather( Dadaji) was In East Pakistan( currently Bangladesh) In 1971 war. He was 19 Years old At That time. He was an IAF Wing Commander. He Told me everything about the war and how they fought.. I am Proud To be an Indian And a part Of a Wing Commanders Grandson.. JAI HIND..
Můj překlad:Poslední den indicko-paksitanského konfliktu v roce 1971 odstartovala dvojice F-86 Sabres na misi CAP. Brzy je odhalily indické pozemní radary a dvojice MiGů-21 byla vyslána, aby je zachytila. Indické MiGy létající na velmi nízké úrovni dokázaly proklouznout pod pákistánskými Sabres a umístit se za nimi. Situace vypadala jako snadné zabití pro nadřazeného bojovníka a pákistánský velitel letu Flt Lt Maqsood Amir věděl, že nemůže uniknout. Jeho jedinou možností bylo bojovat.
Toto je další reenactment z Indo-Pak války z roku 1971 s použitím DCS World jako platformy.
Top Gun: It’s not the plane, it’s the pilot. Pilot in the Box
True, well said.
A Sabre gun kill agianst a Mig 21! I never would have imagined it possible! Lol
Under right circumstances, aircraft from older generations can shoot down more recent (and much faster) ones. MiG-17s shot down plenty of F-105s and Phantoms for example.
Wild that 6 .50 caliber heavy machine guns firing a combined 3600rpm can still be devastatingly effective in an era dominated by 20, 30, 37, and 57mm cannons
True, they could still work. Interestingly, there was a cannon armed Sabre and it was actually sent to Korea late in the war. There will be a video about that someday.
As always, great job Showtime112.
Thanks for the comment, I appreciate it!
the mig pilot was like : come on I just sit and wait for you to shot me down..
You are assuming that he knows he is being targeted. In a plane with terrible rear visibility.
@@showtime112 still that was lame , 2 vs 1 and still did not shot a down a Sabre
Good depiction and balanced source based commentary. I believe the pilot of the Mig 21 shot down was Flt. Lt. Tejwant Singh…and I think the date of this engagement is the 17th of December….just before the ceasefire in the Indian western sector.On the 16th the Pakistan Army in the Indian Eastern sector (now Bangladesh) had surrendered unconditionally.
Thanks for the comment. You are right about the date, this happened on 17th. I only noticed that after uploading the video.
Sabre shoots down a Mig-21... with gunfire! Impressive. Goes to show that it is the man and not the machine that makes the difference at the end of the day.
True. I also think there was a bit of luck involved because the MiG had to be placed a certain way to enable the hit. It took me quite a few attempts to get it right while doing this video :)
Indian pilot screwed up... the old force overshoot trick.....the other MiG 21 could extend away...they were not designed for dog fighting but as high speed interceptor...they will wobble if not kept at high speed....Thanks for another great show\history lesson.
Thank you for watching and commenting! I'm glad when people watch older videos.
@@showtime112 I'm here to help ....thanks for your research and mad video producing skills...big fan of the channel !
Good video. The MIG-21 (wingman) was shot at a high angle off (not straight and level). The cine (gun camera film) showed that clearly. Speaks highly of the PAF pilot (Flt Lt Maqsood Amir) and the A-4 gunsight of the F-86. Yes, Tejwant Singh had received training on the F-86 in USA with PAF pilots, but Flt Lt Maqsood was not one of them. He was trained in Pakistan.
Thanks for commenting and providing extra info. It wasn't an easy shot and it took a few tries while making the video.
WOW，Battle of fighters of the two eras. This is very interesting
The lower-speed has better maneuverability, with a smaller turning radius and using traditional dogfighting tactics and fires machine guns to shoot down more advanced fighters at close range.
Yup, it worked in this case. The Sabre pilot pulled out a good maneuver. He was probably quite lucky too, avoiding the missile and then having the second MiG in front of him.
Good decision making by the Sabre pilot, bad awareness by the MiG-21 wingman?
@@manzelli1981 Probably. In his defense, MiG-21 has a terrible rear visibility :)
The Saber Mark 6 was also a far superior plane than the original F86. Still, the Mig pilot surrendered his speed advantage to the F86 pilot.
the two contenders the f-86a-sabre of the pakitani air force. the other rival was mikoyan mig-21-fishbed of the indian air force. the f-86 was a victorious fighter.
Good ol F86 Sabre.Used to great effect by the Paf to knock IAF to its senses.Also used to good effect against IAF airfields with daring daytime raids on Halwara and Pathankot airfields amongst others….
The good old Sabre still could kill Migs.
Yeah. Although there was a bit of luck here. It took me quite a few tries to get it right 😉
That mig 21 killed a F16
@@bharatarun7608 that is just a legend
@@ВуксаДинаре-ф7ю nah, maybe it's true but it's the newer mig 21
@@bharatarun7608 there no much evidence of this
I love the Sabre, but by 1971 it was a relic. Impressive kill if true.
Even relics can sometimes be effective :) I think it is true. And the Sabre pilot was a bit lucky too. I know because I had to try many times until I got it right 😁
I would take the Sabre in a low level turn and burn against a MIG 21 any day, the Sabre can out turn the MIG and six rapid firing 50 cals can tear anything a new asshole. The MIG's speed is the big advantage it had over the Sabre and apparently the inexperienced Indian pilot wasn't using it to his advantage, instead of fighting a MIG's fight, he was down low fighting a Sabre's fight and he lost.
@@oveidasinclair982 That sums it up nicely.
It is accurate. My dad was the pilot of the saber.
@@showtime112 WHY ARE YOU SO FAVOURED TOWARDS THE PAKISTANIS😡😡😡😑. WHY U ARE NOT SHOWING INDIAN ACES LIKE NIRMAL JIT SINGH SEKHON
And I was sitting here thinking 'Can he get that MIG to overshoot?'
F86.One of the best fighter a/c ever produced with the likes of the P5D Mustang….Served Pakistan well.
Six 50 cal's can sure light your ass up, I don't care what you're flying
¡¡Excelente!!.. ¡Es como si yo mismo hubiese estado "flotando" al lado de ellos!
Congratulations Showtime112!
Tienes buena información histórica.. con fuentes que obviamente las dan restringidas por ser muchas veces "confidencial" por la guerra y también porque solo la da el Ganador de la batalla y no el perdedor.. Saludos desde Lima-Perú 02/Set/2021... CONGRATULATIONS Showtime112!!!
Thanks, I'm glad you liked the video! One of the objectives is to make the viewer feel present in the action as much as possible!
Svaka čast majstore !!! Odličan video. Ovo mi je tako dobro, da jednostavno imam osjećaj kao da gledam neki visokobudžetni film. Nevjerojatno. Svaki put se impresioniram kad ovo vidim. A gledao sam da taj DCS nije ni lako naučit, rećemo, igrat. Kao da imaš "manual" za upravljanje avionom od 500 stranica...preteško jednostavno. Baš me zanima što imaš od opreme, ovo su ipak 2K videozapisi...odnosno ne znam dal je ovaj ali ovo što sam gledao su većinom bili. Želim ti sve najbolje za Božić, i da dođeš pa evo već ove nove godine do milijun subova jel mislim da si zaslužio. Ovakav kontent (sadržaj) rad, trud i sve ovo istraživanje uklopit u jedan video...nemam komentara...nadam se da se ostala publika slaže sa mnom (iako je malo ovo prenaglašeno za neke, ali s pravom naglašeno) Pozdrav😃
Puno hvala na ovako pozitivnom komentaru. Točno je da je DCS zahtjevan ali kad se ufuraš, postane način života 😁. Od opreme imam jednu osrednjuPC konfiguraciju, Thrustmaster HOTAS i
Delanclip head tracker. Malo-pomalo to poboljšavam i drugi DCS kanali imaju jedno 4-5 puta skuplju opremu od mene, ali mi iz ovih krajeva smo svi majstori za izvlačenje dobrih rezultata iz skromne opreme 😁😁😁
I flew the ca27 sabre out off raaf Williamtown nsw Australia before graduation onto the mirage 3 both great aircraft !!!
You flew Sabre and Mirage III? Lucky! Perhaps you could contact Mike Young from Aircrew Interview and share some of your experience?
Damn it you flew the Mirage IIIO 🇦🇺my favourit Fighter Jet 🛩 The Brigitte Bardot of the 60ths when it comes to Fighter Jets.😉
I liked the entire video,the early morning light across the airbase was very well done,👍
Thank you! It's one of the tricks that content creators use, low sun gives a much better impression 😁
My grandfather flew F-86 Sabres in Korea.
Interesting. Did he talk much about it?
@@showtime112 not really. When he was younger. Unfortunately he suffered from dementia
Thanks for the upload. Had only read about this fight before. Now able to view it. Great work!!
Thank you very much for commenting!
Can you make a video on great air Battles of indo pak 1965 & 1971 wars , in the eastern theatre it is said paf had only one fighter squadron up against 12 iaf squadron...thanks mate !!!
Thanks for the suggestions. 1965. is a problem because there are no aircraft types in DCS flown by India in that conflict. 1971. is better, some types are there as mods or as high-fidelity modules. Hopefully, some types such as Hunter or Canberra become available in the future. This will give more options.
I really don't know i go crazy when i see aircrafts and fighter jets since my childhood, maybe it came in my blood since my father was a pilot who passed away due to covid on April 27th this year , anyways bro just wanted to know wat is dcs, as far as my understanding is it high quality animation .
@@fardinakbar8380 DCS World is a flying simulation. The most realistic one that focuses on military aircraft. You can play the basic package for free (two airplanes and two maps). Other aircraft. maps and campaigns can be bought but there's a two week free trial for them too. This is their web site:
www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/
@@showtime112 also, make something on Carrier ops done by India in 1971 over East Pakistan (now Bangladesh)
Also, theres an incident where 2 MiG-21 along with Hawker Hunter attacked Dhaka Airstrip and after effectively disabling the airstrip Migs performed a loop over the airbase to give Pakistanis a show
The loop was done by IAF Air Commodore SS "Bundal" Tyagi, you can even listen to him on 'The Fighter Pilot Podcast' on Mig-21
@@apoorvchauhan6258 Hunter is not available. It might be someday which will give me a lot more options. I actually listened to the Fighter Pilot Podcast episode but I should probably listen again for the details of that raid.
Thanks. Your channel rocks!
Thank you, I appreciate your donation!
I like this new format 1+
Thanks. Do you mean shorter videos?
@@showtime112 Sorry I meant more stories and explanations during combat instead of saying everything at before and after, it worked for me
@@ThePilot4ever Oh yeah. I wasn't really planned but now that you mention it, it does seem better :)
Over a 50 MIG 21 lost by India in 1971 only in East Pakistan.
Great video, once again! 👍🏻 😎
Thanks a bunch! :)
It would be awesome if u could recreate the pathankot mission of 65 some of the Indians new 21 were destroyed and overall a lot havoc on base it would be awesome if u could 🙏
1965. is not easy to do because we don't have any of the aircraft flown by India in that conflict. Maybe if they get developed someday.
@@showtime112 thanks
A very nice simulation but may not have worked in real life. It would be the equivalent of a Heinkel He 51 taking on a Spitfire I and winning. Might happen once in unique circumstances but cannot be relied upon to happen normally. The usual opponent of the F-86 was either the Folland Gnat or the Hawker Hunter and at times in 1965 the Ouragan. And while the Gnat more than held its own against the larger jet, the Hunter being heavier and larger than the F-86 found it hard to win a turning dog fight. What helped the Hunter was its gun pack of 30mm cannon which could destroy a F-86 in short order. But by 1965 the F-86 was obsolescent and by 1971 it was obsolete and so it's higher losses can be justified.
In my opinion, this took several factors to 'click' together. I know because I had to repeat the scene many times until I got it right 😁 But an older aircraft can under right circumstances defeat a more modern one. A typical example might be Vietnamese use of MiG-17 against much more modern Phantoms and Thuds. There's also the story of an Iranian F-5 shooting down an Iraqi MiG-25. It was relatively slow because it was trying to shoot down a transport airplane.
Wow in war Thunder that K 13 would have lost track before I could even launch it, that’s why dcs is better. Great video
I appreciate your comment and sharing the WT experience (which I don't have)!
A fellow war thunder sufferer.
Noice
A very good kill by PAF. Although the mig 21 is superior
Very good video 👍
my guy sabre is much superior in speed and agility
@@darkassassin4166 in speed what u talking about
@@FlatDrifting265 Uhm, when I say speed I wonder what it could mean, velocity
@@darkassassin4166 the Sabre is subsonic at level flight while the mig 21 is supersonic I think it’s Mach 2
I definitely enjoyed the video, but the graphics are awesome 👌. Good video and you're absolutely Right the pilot and knowledge of the strength and weaknesses of your opponent is Critical.
Thanks for the comment! Your support really helps!
Well done Showtime 112! Keep up the good work!
Thanks, sure will!
Great video
Thank you again!
war thunder match : Chad F-86 VS Mig-21 PFM
according to war thunder matchmaking, you actually can have f86 Vs MiG 21. but the MiG pilots are idiots and try to turnfight the sabres
Great content, simply made
Thanks!
this fighter the ak f-86f was old at the time of 1965 war but was very good armed six(0.50) machine guns in the fuselage of this aircraft.
the mig21 was 3x faster than the sabre.
Well, not exactly three times. Also, the top speed isn't always relevant.
I recall reading a story, or something, about a F-86 shooting down a MiG-21. I don't recall where, or the details.
That was probably this one 😁 Thanks for commenting and watching!
What an insult, did not even use the missiles
82ND
These cartoons are badass!!
Subbed!!
Thanks! Keep watching!
There were good dogfights all along 1971 till late December but the actual war was getting decided on land
As wars usually do. But the focus here is on aviation and tactical perspective.
This video is proof of "it's not the plane, it's the pilot." It is not surprising a pilot "in tune" with his plane, no matter how old or outdated, can defeat a better plane with a less experienced pilot.
You can give any pilot the best and most advanced aircraft out there. However, if he does not know his machine, then you will not get that far. The aircraft is only as good as the pilot uses it.
That's true
Fun fact during the indo pak war of 1965 the F86 sabres of Pakistan shot down 9 hunter aircraft, 4 vampires and 2 gnat of the indian airforce and were successful in attacking aircraft on the ground which resulted in 36 indian aircraft being destroyed on the ground alone.MM alam a pakistani ace flying his sabre sshot down 5 indian shot down 5 indian jets in a minute. And during the 1971 war Pakistan shot down 31 indian aircraft in air to air combat these included 17 hawker hunters, 8 sukhoi su 7 ,1 mig 21 and 2 gnat despite being outnumbered in east Pakistan where there was only 1 Pakistan squardon compared to the nealry the entire indian airforce. The most interesting battle was the battle of boyra where 2 pakistani sabres faced 4 indian mig 21. The PAF were abled to shoot down 1 mig 21 and losing none of its own despite Pakistan losing the 1971 war because of the complexity of the war for Pakistan the sabres performed really really well .
Plenty of interesting things going on during the 1971 war. If there were more airplanes from it available in DCS, there would be more reenactments.
Excellent job,man!
Glad you liked it, Harry 😊
awsome job, being an indian supporter it hurts, but we note that you are not biased as i've noted you recent videos are becoming towards india as well, furthermore ignore people who say biased, they get blinded by 1 aerial battle which was insignificant as fizziuck. good job keep goin
Thank you for this feedback! I'm glad to see there are people who think like that. There are indeed many from both India and Pakistan who are very passionate, and not in a good way 😁
These videos should have more views than growling sidewinder. And what nub that Mig Pilot is. Never fly straight and level once engaged no no no.
GS is more of a gaming/entertainment channel. This is more of a history/documentary channel. It's logical that he has more views. A James Bond movie will always get more views than a documentary about real agents 😁
I think that the MiG-21 pilot was actually in a turn when he was hit. But that's proven to be extremely hard to reenact in DCS, AI behaves in a certain way. It was a combination of factors, including luck in my opinion.
@@showtime112 yeah I know what you mean brother, but still i'm speaking to the fact that I wish people kind of had a taste to learn about history. Because if you don't know your history you're damned to repeat it some wise man said.
@@simulatedpilot3441 Yup, the history is full of such examples 😁
Nice video as always show :) love from India
Thanks! I think you might like the next one even better 😁
@@showtime112 Ok waiting for the new video soon ;)
Back music add extra color and flavor beside commentry show time is a cool guy I must say I ve watched this video six time.animation of barrel role so cool one of legendary PAF pilot MM Alam once said that barrel role is something which many times turn the table over adversary if the pilot know what he is doing..
Thank you for watching and for giving feedback! I have to say that the maneuver itself required a bunch of retries as it's not very easy to do.
Really interesting
Glad you think so!
The Sabre only had .50 cals. But it's Sidewinders more than made up for it.
He opted for the barrelroll, aparently he watched hollywood movies :)
Maybe. But had battle this taken place after 1986. he would have opted to 'hit the brakes' 🤣🤣🤣
@@showtime112 He'll fly right by, yes 😂
Is it possible to present a pictorial “de-brief” after the animation …. Showing the trajectories of the aircraft in 3 dimensions?
It could be done with Trackview. It's a software which records all the movement and action in simulations such as DCS. However, very often in these videos, it's not just one single battle but rather a combination of elements to mane them as close to the historical events. So the 3D presentation wouldn't necessarily be that useful.
@@showtime112 Thanks for sharing the information about the track view software. I agree that in a complex engagement with a lot of manoeuvring track view would not be very useful to clarify the significant tactical elements involved.However not all the engagements during the 65 and 71 wars involved prolonged manoeuvring or turns (perhaps a few scissors at most).The famous Boyra Gnat versus Sabre engagement in Nov 71 being one such case in point.
Being an armchair air combat enthusiast… I would really like to be able to visualise the decisive manoeuvre in 3 dimensions to understand what happened.For instance in this engagement the Mig 21s appear to have started from a position of advantage….but subsequent to the missiles failure to hit …the wingman appears to have strayed into the lead Sabres kill zone.So tactically it would be interesting to see how that happened.
The good thing is that a lot of the fighter pilots involved are still around….and it should be possible to re-create an accurate tactical picture for the historical record… now that the technology is available.
@@ivanjalaluddin4458 Generally, from what I can tell, air to air combat rarely lasts very long. And usually, the victim is not aware of the attack. In this particular case, MiG-21s had the advantage but their missile missed (they are not called missiles for nothing 😁). The Sabre pilot was aware of the situation and he pulled a high-g barrel roll. The MiG leader anticipated it and countered with an climbing maneuver. But the MiG wingman wasn't prepared so he didn't respond accordingly.
@@showtime112 Climbing is not the correct maneuver unless the MIG is already at close to top speed, above 1000 kmph, then it is, horizontal or a dive if possible until 1000kph is. Something funny happened to that Mig21, he turned and burned to bellow 700 or so and then failed to afterburn to get away for some reason. That, or the Mark 6 is crazy fast subsonic if it has 50% more power than original f86s and caught the mig21 with his own afterburner. slats would slow it down in turns, probably weren't used if it was a simple and short high speed barrel roll.
Edit: I should note, it's a correct manouver if you are behind the F86, definitely not if you are overshooting as these boys did.
I've often wondered how the Sabre would've done with a more powerful motor. Putting it up around Mach 1.5
I imagine the aerodynamic design would have issues with that. But the Super Sabre was essentially such a modification.
We want our hero nirmaljeet sir story
Bottom line, however, even though the F-86 Sabre is older and slower (subsonic) it is more tight turning and has a greater rate of role than a MiG-21!
Yes, many people just compare generations or only top speed and draw conclusions. But it's so much more than that.
Excellent coverage boss
Thanks!
Will you make a video on MM Alam's 5 Hawker Hunter kills within 1 minute while flying F86 Saber during the 65 War with India?
We don't have Hunters in DCS. If they get developed someday, it might be done.
@@showtime112 Noted!! Thank you
@Mukesh Sharma Oh you mean dreams like shooting down an F16 with an invisible missile from a downed Mig or clouds blocking the radar coverage or maybe a machine making gold out of aalu? trust me mate I've had my fair share of dreams
@Mukesh Sharma no offense taken bcz it might be impossible for you (like many other things i.e having toilets for an instance) but for us it isn't and deep down you yourself know that if your military is really that capable as you're saying then you would have annexed all of Pakistan as of now, no? bcz I've heard this typical housewife bickering about annexing Pakistan from our eastern border from some time now.
but its okay y'all can keep bringing up 71 war and relive that one golden moment your country ever had in its miserable existence because We learn from our mistakes and defeats also We don't manipulate the facts but you people OMG lmao.
I'm just gonna end it here before it escalates and the author of this awesome page bans me cz of some pajeet.
@@Odysseus17 Burning F-16 wreckage was heavenly
Pakistan is popular for backstab but india is famous for front stab!
Lol delusional Indian, brainwashed into thinking bollywood is real life lol..
@@R7700-f1k Do you know illiterate YT what does delusional stand for? well i am not like you who use the google translater for reply,go kid improve your grammer first country's economy is so poor well try to improve it bro."Lollywood" lol what a sucking name.:D
Anyone know what sidewinder mounts you would use on a Sabre model?
During 1965 war 4 F86 sabres bombed Halwara airbase and destroyed 8 Mig21 on ground.
they couldn't get in the air to defend the airbase.
apart from that whole base was destroyed and saw no action for rest of the war
Yea and consequences ended in 1971 with broken pakistan 😂
India had received shipment of 6 mig21 in crates in 1964. by 1965 only two had been operational... And were destroyed on ground at pathankot
after such action India tear pakistan into 2 parts, made new country Bangladesh, 90k+ soldiers surrendered to India within 15 days 😂
After few days from this , Pakistan literally lost half their country!
Pakistan lost its colony not country
@@usmanqureshi08 wth 😂 colony?!
Is this what they teach you in Bikaristan?
@@usmanqureshi08 east Pakistan. That's what pak lost. Humiliated and surrender. Broken into 2 parts
@@anubhavmalik2988 Indian army nay khud tea pelai Pakistaniyo koo jail may😜😜😜😘😘😘😘🤓🤓🤭🤭🤭😁😁🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Plz make 1965 indo -pak conflict
There will be videos about in sometime in the future.
F-86 sure is good looking airplane
Great story 😊
Show some videos about flying officer NJS Shekhon gallant warrior.
He was a Gnat pilot, right? The main problem is that we don't have the Gnat in any flight simulation.
To all people who are saying feeling bad for India, I just wanna say if don't know much than see the full details of 1971 war, how Pakistan surrendered with 93000 troops, remember losing a dogfight doesn't mean u won a war. Also to all Americans who are humilating India, why you went away with ur 7th fleet from Indian Ocean when you realised Soviet Ships were ready with nukes and missiles😂, lol Pakistan came to sink our aircraft carrier but they lost there submarine which was bought from USA.
Mr. Allan u intervene in our civil war,and benefited from our internal conflict. 93000 include a lot of civilans, further east pakistanies were 1000 km away from west pakistan, an area whr 99% people wre against pakistan.in this way even sri lankan army could even claim victory. And last PAF was in embargo from us. Whrre as ussr panted mig 21 factory in india in 1966.
@@fawadgillani2304 it's ur country's mistake for starting the war by attacking our airbases...
Mr Allan your country was using regular forces against Pakistan in the East Pakistan since November 1971 , please research this for your knowledge .It's India which started the war .
@@nedee1111 Indians were helping mukti bahini, because a lot of people were coming from Bangladesh to India, have some shame on your army who has raped 400000 hindu women, and also check wikipedia that how the war started after all bombing 11 airbases in India by PAF
@@sepecat7609 have shame on yours in kashmir
it has croatian subtitles? noice, pozdrav buraz
Upravo tako 😁 Pozdrav i tebi!
Make a video on sqn. Leader A.B Devayya also who shot down F-104 with mystere 4 on 7 September 1965, which was later confirmed by John fricker.
That would be interesting but unfortunately, no Mysteres in DCS.
You are distorting the history F 104 downed mystere as hitting due to fast speed Devya has no time to eject and killed while F104 pilot Amjad Husain bailed out safely he requested the villager to buried Devya body which they did.
The Finns have used Soviet-designed aircraft - is there any record of them using the Soviet aircraft to chase foreign aircraft out of Finnish air space?
There are a couple of interviews with Finnish pilots on Aircrew Interview. I think they may have mentioned something like that but I don't recall the details.
Check out M Kaiser Tufail's book "Great Battles of Pakistan Air Force" pages 128-129 which lists all the PAF air victories during the 1965 and 1971 wars. These records are confirmed kills cross-checked from Indian sources. So while most Pakistanis have grown up with the story of Squadron Leader M M Alam having shot down 5 Indian Hunters in one mission, the book sets the record straight that in fact 3 were shot down and the other 2 made it back to base. So yes indeed F/L Tejwant Singh was shot down and became POW.
Thanks for adding these details. This seems like a very interesting book but I guess it's out of print and hard to find.
Love the sabre and the mig 21👍👍👍👍🇵🇰🇵🇰
Thanks for the comment!
@@showtime112 no problem
HAQ KLMA A PAK. HAQ
I HAVE SEEN MANY MANY DOG FIGHTS BETWEEN PAKISTANI & INDIAN WAR PLANES ,
P A F ABSOLUTELY ZBRDST
ALLAHA PAK SLAMT RKHAY .
ALLAHA Huma AMEEN.
( 1965 & 1971 )
G A G : P. A. F
Very good production.
Thank you very much for your support!
Hahahahahah do you think a sabre of pakistani airforce can ever in its wildest dreams shoot down an INDIAN airforce MIG21 which was the most modern aircraft of its time🤣🤣
Wow, man! What an incredibly powerful argument! An older type can never, under no circumstances shoot down a more recent type. You must be a great expert. And I'm guessing you are Indian which means you probably believe that Abhinandan shot down a Pakistani F-16 in his MiG-21.
Btw, MiG.21 was nowhere near the most modern aircraft of that time.
Hey why cant you put videos on iaf kill on paf
Hey, why can't you check the facts before making questions like that?
Really like your videos. In your opinion, is the Indo Pakistani conflict one of those rare occasions where Soviet equipment has outperformed US equipment in aerial combat?
Thank you very much!! There's no easy answer to that question because the situation was a bit more complex. Indians also used many Western aircraft and MiG-21s were available in much greater numbers than the F-104s. Pakistanis were also displaying some questionable tactics. Even if Soviet equipment performed well, it certainly wasn't just due to the equipment itself. But then again, you could say the same about the use of Western equipment in 1967 Arab-Israeli war.
Actually it was quite the opposite. If you look at most impartial records of both the 65 and 71 wars you will find that the PAF had better kill ratio and bombing accuracy despite being heavily outnumbered.
You just cannot compare the F-86 to the Mig-21, maximum to the Mig-15 or Mig-17.
Well, you can't compare F-5 to F-14 but they still fought each other in Top Gun. The school, not the movie :)
@@showtime112 When did it take place?
The 21 is faster, but the 86 is a better dogfight!
The pilot of the F-86 is my dad.
This F-86?
@@showtime112 yes. You got it right. He shot down tejwant Singh who survived. He visited him in the hospital whereupon tejwant told him: “I’ll get you in the next war.”
@@omaramir1459 Interesting. Is he still alive?
@@showtime112 yes, he’d be happy to talk to you if you want a first hand account. He lives in California now.
@@omaramir1459 Well, I suppose you could ask him to watch the video. Although it's probably. quite different from what it was really like :)
It was the Tejwant Singh who was shot down.
Thanks for confirming that!
@showtime112 you should make video on dog fight happened in East Pakistan sector. Some of the best best dogfights were fought over gauhati, Tejgaon, dhaka and hasimara.
I might if I find good descriptions. The main problem is lack of assets in DCS.
pakistan lost the war. lost half of its territory. The myth of muslim superiority was broken
😀Great Republic Of India Won
F-86 vs MiG-21
Thats war thunder matchmaking for ya
Maybe the War Thunder publisher was inspired by this event? 😁
@@showtime112 lol