The main thing that concerns me with the idea of the main cast stepping back is that, as someone who has been watching from the G&S beginning, the big thing that drew me in to CR is that the "cast" wasn't a cast at all, but an actual D&D group that just happened to be made up of an incredibly talented group of actors and improvisers. For me, the chemistry at the table can't be synthesized. Robbie fits the group well, but most guests, despite being enjoyable, have felt like guests.
@@fuzziestlumpkin Even Robbie feels like he's on the outside a lot. When he engages, he's great, but I've noticed that he ends up quiet and/or slightly sidelined and seems to need others to pull him in sometimes.
Completely agree, and I've been watching for as long as you have, though I stopped watching during C3 a bit ago. I'll be coming back soon. My favorite guest ever is Darin De Paul. The gravitas he brought to the table was like none other. And additionally, the way he brought comedy to the game while still staying completely true to the character... truly a masterclass in roleplaying. But like you said, I recognize he was a Guest very clearly. As excellent as Sprigg was, his contribution was intense enough that it could quickly "get old" in long form play. There are a few guests I believe could survive more naturally when mixing with the main cast for long, and out of those, I believe Robbie is by far the best pick. It's a mix of bringing a character that's made in a way that feels natural within the group's adventures AND easily fitting their sense of humor and storytelling.
I agree. I’m watching Downfall 99-101 right now and it’s a slog watching it with the fill ins, as good as they are. And nobody beats Matt’s ability to tell a story.
Honestly, after midway through Campaign 2 when they formed their own company, it hasn't felt like an actual D&D group. It felt like a produced show. That's not to say it's scripted, but I think the cast cares a little too much about what they do and say and are reining themselves in to make the show more dramatic but in actuality it has made it less relatable.
To me, Critical role is Matthew Mercer. I occasionally watch their other shows, but I would watch the main show significantly less if he no longer DM's it. I love all the cast members, but it's his DMing and storytelling that keeps it all together. They can change systems. They can bring in guest characters, and even guest dm's. But the moment there's a significant drop in him running the game, I think there will be a big shift in viewers.
Exactly. Like I love the occasional one-shot where one of the other members takes the reigns or we get a brief switch with Brennan or Aabria, but the og cast and Matt’s storytelling is really, truly why I’m drawn to CR and I know I’m not alone there.
Yeah, I love all of the cast members, but Mercer is what gives CR that special something you can’t find anywhere else. However, as a DM I sympathize with him having to create these massive, publicly criticized, back to back campaigns. The pressure and stress and endless work he has to be doing, along side his voice acting career, has to be exhausting. I don’t want another DM, but I also wouldn’t mind them taking a year off or something to let the poor guy rest for a while….
The change of system won’t really bother me at all, however change of cast, especially DM will be tricky. That’s where you can quickly lose people if you are not careful, despite how good the new people would be.
Yep. Critical Role *is* Matt. I love Brennan, and his style is incredible, but it isn't Matt's. And Aabria is...Aabria (I wish they'd stop trying to push her when the reception to anything she's done that hasn't been a one-shot is universally negative.)
@@vishaansingh1019 Aabria did some cool stuff on Dimension 20 (misfits and magic, courts of fey and flowers...), and she's usually a really good player (I really like her in NY by Night for example). I'm not a big fan of her Exandria unlimited campaign either but hey, she's really not all bad.
@@valentinr.120 I know she's good with goofy/crazy stuff, which is fine, but it doesn't mesh well with Critical Role, unless it's a non-canon one-shot, which is my point. She said on Twitter that she wants her campaigns to be like Fast and Furious 9, which uh, is not what I want out of CR's future.
@@Wulfgar23111 Yes this. I try and get into other shows and GMs but none catch me like Matt and the crew do. I really struggle to stick with other shows.
I'll be honest, if the original cast doesn't start a new campaign, and instead they do some random cast and micro campaign and one-shots or something like that, I'll probably dont watch anything. I love them and I love that they have more content other than the main campaign with the main cast, but part of what I like to see is the eight of them interacting and having a good time. Having a variable cast will not be the same. I'm fine with them changing from 5e to maybe daggen heart system, but I want the 8 og members, not a whole new ensemble each week or something like that
I started my CR adventure with Campaign 2, and i love it so much. There is a place for simple story, starting in a tavern, practicly nobodys getting their first tighing them all quest, with different aproaches to this new party, getting to know each other, a lot of side-quests, where team is build and relations are made. So different personal stories, which we can live through with the cast of CR. Every single member of M9 is just a regular human(or else) being, with thier respectfull problems and characthers, and i really loved their way of telling those stories one by one in separate archs. Wih C3 it felt very much non-serious at the start with Travis palying old dude, who did nothing but giggle bits, with Laudna being just a big throwback to C1, and whole part with her story felt just an excuse to go to Whitestone and other locations of their beloved C1. I watched some of C1 and the animated series, and they are great, but i liked C2 way more, because it's story is standing aside of previous heroes, establishing it''s own story. Also after that wiggly start it started to go so epic really fast, moon, titans, gods and stuff...Too rapid for my tastes. So i really hoping that if there will be a C4, it will be more like C2, with maybe a few homages to previous characters, but a new story. And normal progressing storytelling, not that Avengers Endgame-like level right of the start. If we are talking MCU references, some Iron Man, First Avenger and Thor movies to start with :)
I am open about preferring C1, and I think the main thing that sets people off from it is the story already being in motion when it starts, Orion, and the janky streaming stuff. But the story is heartfelt and warm to its core (LOVM loses a lot of that). I wanted to like C2, but it just became so aimless and many of the characters spun in circles. There are parts I loved (Essek and Caleb), but it became an exercise in wasting time and I was begging for C3 to give the cast an actual story to chew on like C1. C3 had that and it just felt...empty. Like they were going through the motions? idk how to describe it. Everyone being a goofy joke character besides Orym and Imogen, who are extremely quiet, is not something I can get behind.
@@vishaansingh1019 ofc C2 wasn't ideal, no campaign was or will be, but It's my fav. Can agree with you on some comments about C3. Hope that everybody will find stmh in C4 that they could appreciate and love.
@@9miroke Honestly, I feel like the energy is gone. Something changed in the COVID 3 month break and the old vibe is never gonna come back. Made my piece with it, but I think CR peaked around 2019 or so.
I have similar thoughts, c2 was better cause it was more relatable and the characters were more people, c3 felt way to produced and artifical and everything is a laughing gag rather than any serious sections compared to c2. I have watched parts of c1 but c2 is my fav for sure. I just hope that c4 goes back to a bit more serious style.
Hopefully this doesn't come off as negative as I'm afraid it will, but i haven't been able to connect to C3 the way i did with 1 & 2 and i don't think it's because the game or characters are "worse" they just didn't resonate with me that much. So I'm excited to see C3 wrapping up and hoping that C4 is able to pull me in in a way that C3 just hasn't.
I'm pretty much the same, and my (very personal and subjective) opinion is that they might be getting tired of the system and its tropes, and I think switching to a non D&D game would be a welcome breath of fresh air for them to get those creative and fun juices flowing really well again.
Same here, to the point that I stopped watching somewhat early on. Just getting back into it now but it's mostly fueled by the increasingly common appearances from the characters from the other campaigns and the crossover stuff.
Have any of the main cast talked about wanting to take an extended long break, the answer being no. Hell it took Sam getting cancer to take a break and he stayed on the show while he had it until it was time for surgery and what not and even then he wasn't gone long and has mentioned how much he missed it. This is a job they can have and not work around the clock on therefor needing/getting a break is already something they partake in. This is also time for the married couples to spin time together having fun, with there close friends, not sure i have ever heard of someone needing a break from something that checks all those boxes that they also make a living off of. It's not like there doing live shows every week as they are able to record ahead of time and give themselves time off when wanted or needed. when it comes down to it they have talked about doing more and more and have never talked about pulling back one time.
Yeah from my POV they don't plan on switching the main campaigns to Daggerheart. And they are not taking a back seat at all, as "they're just getting started". The reason why they take the last week off is so they can go on vacation for a week. Plus if they want some sort of vacation, they plan a oneshot or something like that ahead of time to allow them to take the vacation. For Christmas, they sometimes take 2 weeks off and sometimes for Thanksgiving. To me it seems quite organized in ensuring everyone doesn't feel overwhelmed and etc. As they've created a team to ensure that. Don't think they even plan on doing shorter campaigns either, as they love the long campaigns. As you said about Sam, said he missed it a lot and when we listen to the cast speak of the campaigns, they are hella excited.
I really hope you are right, but they also seem really tired sometimes. I also noticed the “founding cast” phrase on their stuff about the live shows, and thought of exactly the same thing.
As someone who joined with campaign 3 with zero knowledge of anything critical role or D&D, I really hope campaign 4 is a better spot for newcomers. I remember being so so confused at all the past campaign references, I'm shocked I managed to stay with it. Regardless of the game system, I hope c4 takes place in a time far removed enough from c1-3 so it feels like a blank slate. Also, a tech advance would be cool - just seeing the long long-term effect of Percy's guns, Aeor's salvaging, the shift in Pantheon etc - if anything happens in C4 it has to be a 50+year time jump
I think it would be cool if the level of interconnectedness waxes and wanes. C2 was largely removed from C1. C3 is Very connected to C2 and C1. C4 can be very far removed and C5 could get bat shit crazy
I totally agree - they said the same thing about Downfall being beginner friendly and I just can't help but feel like they are off their rockers if they think that's true. You would have missed all of the substance of the story if Downfall was ur first CR media.
I’m in the exact same boat, I started with C3 and have seen the Vox Machina animated series, but most of the references to past campaigns go over my head. I really hope C4 is far removed from the present day Exandria.
Yeah as someone who started in C3, I was really confused on who Bertrand was like I was supposed to know him. There was only like 18 episodes I think when I started and after Dorian left I watched ExU as a flashback. Then to figure out who Bertrand is, I tried watching Search for Grog but didn't know Grog. So I watched Legend of Vox Machina season one. Afterwards I watched some Campaign One but I mostly just read the synopsises on the wiki to learn the story. Going to different episodes to watch sections Id wanna see, like when Vex pops out of the tub with Percy. Now after watching 30 episodes of Mighty Nien Im doing the same
I can only speak for myself but I would lose interest if the focal point from the main campaign wasn't by the OG CR cast, their personalities were what drew me to the show, sure I enjoyed the characters but the energy between them is what made it appealing to me. I've tried watching other similar format shows with other people and it just isn't the same. Nothing last forever but it sure would be a mayor bummer to see it end at all.
It's an adjustment. I'm a fan of the Theorists channels (Game Theorists, etc.). Earlier this year, MatPat retired as host of those channels, and just a couple weeks ago as host from the last channel, GTLive. They've all been taken over by new hosts. And it's different. So much of the channels, especially GTLive, was his personality. But finding the right people, easing into the transition, letting people get to know the new hosts, and keeping the format and the tone the same (while still giving the hosts the space to be themselves) has been great to make the transition as easy as possible. It's not the same, but it's still great. CR will be too. They will need to the same things - slowly ween us off them as a cast while introducing their new cast.
I recommend 'Dungeons of Drakkenheim' by the 'Dungeon Dudes' they have a similar energy but smaller group with just 3 players a DM and a Cameraman. Its really good.
I absolutely agree. There are maybe 3 people I'd consider "worthy" and one of them isn't CR. If Emily Axford permanently joined I'd be permanently happy. But for the most part not only voice actors, but competent actors sets a high bar that no other channel has come close to meeting. VLDL is ok, but sometimes a bit tiring with the insanity.
agreed on the side quest thing, i had to take a break from C3 because the main plot being the only focus was so overwhelming for me (I don’t know what’s happened between roughly episodes 20-40). I liked the flow of C1 and C2 with it being a slow build up to other things or something sneakily in the background that makes it way fully open close to the end. Also it really doesn’t feel the characters had much time to be connected like you mentioned specifically on the romance part for oyrum and dorian, and anything emotional with laudna and imogen (they’re together and delilah has been an issue in it but other than take there isn’t much for me to throw confetti at for them…i want to). They’ve all been so worried for the main plot there hasn’t been much of anything except when they go to the fey realm but that’s because they have literal time on their side to relax.
I used to be fully convinced that they were planning to switch to their new game system with C4… until we saw how Daggerheart works. Now, I absolutely do not think that’s going to happen. Sure, most critters will probably stick around for a new system, but the main issue is getting new viewers. It’s way easier to pull new viewers with “hey, all these famous voice actors have a show where they play DND” as opposed to “hey, all these famous voice actors have a show where they play this TTRPG you’ve never heard of.” I can say for sure that I would never have started watching Critical Role if they were playing a different game. Not to mention, how long could a DH campaign actually last, and still be interesting, with just 10 levels, and everyone basically sharing class features? DH just doesn’t seem like it’s that robust of a system that it could carry the main campaign. You basically couldn’t really play a character like Caleb in DH, RAW. Despite the more narrative focus, it’s actually a much more rigid system in terms of how you can build characters, and how they work. I just don’t think it could work as the main campaign’s system, and I think it would crater interest in the campaign. I’ve been wrong before, and maybe I am.
@@PatheticApathetic I completely agree. To your point, it seems catered for much smaller sized campaigns. If they change the way they do campaigns, to something more akin to Dimension 20, then I could see some merit to this. But I think as it stands, Daggerheart cannot fulfil the shoes of DND in a longer campaign setting. I wouldn’t mind either way to be fair, as long as the characters and cast stay funny and wholesome.
I feel like they will just being acting and have way less “game play “ elements. Can’t let the dice get in the way of story ….. who knows. I can see them staying with dnd , and I can also see them going all in with Daggerheart
I feel like they will just being acting and have way less “game play “ elements. Can’t let the dice get in the way of story ….. who knows. I can see them staying with dnd , and I can also see them going all in with Daggerheart
I don't know enough about Daggerheart to comment on those points, although to my knowledge the full release book isn't out yet. But I do think a lot of people put far too much weight on D&D being used as a system. Fact is, normal people couldn't care less. The biggest example of this is The Legend of Vox Machina... I have never met another CR viewer, I did convert one person during the pandemic, but several of my friends and family watch LoVM. I've even struck up a couple of conversations about it with strangers in pubs. CR is a big enough "brand" on it's own now that what system they use doesn't really matter anymore. The barrier to entry for newcomers is and will continue to be the 4 hour long episodes.
That's very true. Staying in Exandria is the only way they will get some stability in that regard, but even then, it is risky: people will be missing certain species and classes, and if they decide there is an entirely new continent between Wildemount and Issylra, for example, you can also add that in practice it will feel like a new unfamiliar setting One aspect that I think Many fans are worried about is the possibility that the knowledge and investment they have in current Exandria will turn into dust. Right now people watch the animated series, they have their own home campaigns based in Tal'Dorei or Wildemount, the CR Wiki has more than 5000 articles talking about his world... That maybe will become unrecognisable in three months. Critical Role can play their cards right and create an epic fourth campaign, but two mistakes in a row in the eyes of the fans could be very harmful to their audience numbers
I was actually thinking more along the lines that the might be aiming for the anniversary to fall coinciding with the end of Campaign 3, which would make it about 16 eps to go (if my maths is right). Regardless, it definitely feels very close now. I agree with your sentiments about needing smaller-scale stories at the early levels to really build the team together, I think if they had done more fun adventures like the museum heist against a rival team, and the car race in Bassuras, we would feel less like they’re only just hitting their stride now. I think your idea about starting a fourth campaign with the founding cast and then slowly swapping cast members out throughout the story sounds pretty effective, I’d honestly like it if they did that. I know they don’t me anything and they’re allowed to retire the position if they want, but I’m a simple guy afraid of change and would appreciate the slow, gentle hand-off
As a long time critter. I personally hope for an even longer campaign with the crew just having some fun. Maybe a sandbox with smaller villians or a larger story similar to whats being finished in campaign 3 now. I would hope that they use daggerheart just because they enjoy it more.
As someone who has been on the inside side of major organizational changes during growth, I think your analysis is spot on. Way to think about their goals, risks, natural changes/needs, word choices, and such. Cast chemistry is the biggest draw for me -- I don't play D&D. That'll be the hardest thing to reproduce. Robbie has been a big win. I really enjoy Aabria, Aimee, Luis, and others but they interact more like friends and not besties. Second is the DM -- Matt has a way of doing things that is more entertaining to me than others. I selectively watch Brennan and Aabria (I sub Dropout) but Matt I always try to watch
I think they will use both. It make sense. Using a new system its a problem regarding resources and extensions, so I would love to see a Steam Punk future in Dagerheart and a 50 some regular D&D campaign .
@MrDanlancelot @MrDanlancelot for example in a middle of a game someone turns into a Rabit, or an owl, or you need the stats for a wall, or the damage from falling 1000 meters as a fish. When you are not sure and easy way is a quick book or internet search, of something similar or equal and then decide. As for the traits of NPC, history, all this nuance. World building its very complicated, and 50+ years of world building by thousands of people are not easy replace, even if they use their own systems they still will use others people licenses an content. The most logical business is to use both. Daggerhart to short runs like D20 and D&D in regular (but shorter?) Campaigns.
I can see why they would add more people to the cast, Robbie is such a wonderful addition and the post Ley Line episodes are among my favorite, but I am confused about the assumption that the founding cast would step back from the table for longer periods of time. Has anybody openly said that they wanted to be less involved? I would miss them and think that the C3 and Exandria Unlimited formula has worked perfectly. We got to have our favorites and meet new actors already.
I don't think there's any reason to say that any of them want to leave specifically, but it has been 10 years. Eventually someone WILL want to stop. Bands break up, actors move on from their defining roles, things get stale, boring, exhausting and some people just want to change things up. That might not be campaign 4, or 5, but it will happen one day. Any speculation about specific members stepping down would just be rumours and people reading into things, but thinking more broadly and more long term, it's an inevitability.
Liam has openly talked about the massive amount of projects they have going on and how at times it is overwhelming. Sam has made similar comments, as him and Liam are the leads on the animated series and further project in that medium. Also not limiting to Sam’s healthcare with the big C that literally attacked his ability to speak. The entire cast has talked about growing the company and changing priorities in their own personal growth and goals. Even Tal has spoken in an interview shortly after the first season of Vox Machina, how they have been transitioning to a media company for some time. This is all the same trumpet that Travis has been preaching for 6+ years which obviously being the CEO, there’s a grand plan that he’s put forward that the rest of them are on board with!
@@rstlr01 This is all true, but whether that means stepping away from the table is all just speculation. Inevitable at some point, sure, but to read in to specific players mentality and whether they will or won't leave is not helpful imo. Leave it at "They will all step down one day, but idk who or when". Not you specifically, but CR fans can sometime get a bit Parasocial and try to read a lot into what the cast are thinking/feeling/planning, better to think about vague possibilities rather than specifics imo.
@ OP was asking if any had talked about stepping aside. I was just saving them the time and the effort of having to go look for the answers themselves in the hundreds of hours of random interviews I have watched. Everyone at CR are well aware they need to continue building the brand and expanding it beyond their little home game, we started watching on Geek & Sundry almost 10 years ago. Considering how brutal this fan base can be sometimes, it is truly a testament of their character and ability to weather the storms by making smart decisions.
@@rstlr01 Thank you for the summary! I do agree that the things they said don’t directly translate to them wanting to step down from the table right now, but of course we have to expect it some day. The selfish part of me obviously hopes that that doesn’t happen all too soon. As long as everybody is happy and healthy I’d like them to keep playing.
i will admit C3 has been the hardest for me to keep up with. Maybe its just my attention span changing or the characters not resinating as much ..but C1 was a lot of fun, C2 is probably my favorite, that ending kinda blindsided me about 5 episodes before i realised it was ending. hopefully when i get back into C3 itll hit more
While Campaign 3 hasn’t been my favourite I am interested to see where this is going to go and how to end and I really really appreciate the risks they’ve taken what I wouldn’t mind is more EXUs set in the past cause I really want to see things like the peak calamity war and something touched on in season of the LOVM when Brimsytche said dragons ruled Exandria give me an EXU set during the reign of the dragons
C3 has to do a VERY important thing…… It has to kill the Gods and all the remaining WOTC IP out of Exandria for them to be truly independent of that…. Kraken Not my favorite either But I understand why
I don't think there will be significant, persistent, changes with the core cast. Matt talks often about how this is a game he enjoys, and it's a way for him to hang out with his friends. All things considered, they're going to want to hold on to that as long as they can. Robbie was a good addition, and I wouldn't be surprised if they had other 'long term guests'. Travis also took the start of the campaign off, before coming back regularly, and I wouldn't surprised if similar things started happening more often. But by and large, I suspect we'll continue to see the core cast more often for many years to come. One of the things I like a lot about CR and other live-play shows, is that I am *intimately* familiar with the rules, and have been running my own home-game for years. My *favorite* thing is that they're doing the Same Thing that I do, but just on a Grander scale. I don't really care for the Daggerheart rules-system... I've watched one of the Managerie one-shots, and while I often consider going back to watch the rest, I have yet to. If they approached it with the same seriousness of a Core Campaign, and put it in Exandria (Ruidians coming to Exandria could explain a *Lot* of the new species), I might be more interested... but I'm not sure.
I think you are very right about the goal of C3 It needs to remove the old Pantheon for CR to be truly independent of old WOTC IP. But it doesn’t have to kill the old gods. No matter if Predathos is defeated or not, and how many gods he chomps down on in the process, the remaining will leave, and new ones will rise
Part of me wants members of Vox Machina and The Mighty Nein to ascend into a new pantheon that watches over Exandria and protects it from outside threats but doesn't directly interfere with day-to-day affairs. It would take a group of powerful level 20s off of the board while keeping them important to the world. Make them all constellations in the sky that form a protective barrier over the world and provide those who need a deity to follow what they need while still guiding the others with their light.
They're billing the Indianapolis live show as "the first one-shot set in the world of Exandria and powered by...Daggerheart." While 'one-shot' could be key there, if they were switching to a Daggerheart campaign in early 2025, don't you think they wouldn't wait so long for the change to their one-shots?
Imagine them finishing the big fight of C3 and then in between all of the live shows we get little one-shots or short runs of the characters re-made in Daggerheart. They could tie up loose ends and deal with the fall out of whatever happens. A bunch of little side stories of any of their characters dealing with consequences of past actions... -Jester and Isharnai maybe? -Gwen de Rolo's secret adventuring squad? -Return to Molaesmyr? -Grief Counseling at the Shattered Teeth? And then the inevitable C3 dress up one-shot live show- typically a wedding, but this time Chetney's funeral turned reverse caper as Bell's Hells has to try and steal his coffin/urn back from Waylon and his crew of insane with grief C-Poppers! Luckily they've been teamed up with an eisfuura who says they come from a long line of hot shot detectives! They could fill the entire anniversary year with these types of one-shots since they'd have to film around traveling and live-shows and then start the new campaign after all of that. A year of fanservice while they continue making their abridged versions of episodes.
Like so many others, I love the founding cast members of Critical Role. I WILL find it harder to get into any long term campaign that does not include all of them, though. Truthfully, I simply struggle with their content that doesn't have Laura Bailey! But that's MY issue, not theirs...
I always thought something was missing from this campaign. You hit the nail on the head; no side-quests! My biggest gripe was the ramp-up on difficulty this campaign, but now that I think of it, the side-quest thing was a big missing point this campaign. I am happy that the campaign has gotten more interesting in the last 12 or so episodes though. Regarding campaign size, I think if they do the abridged option right at the outset (releasing the full show and abridged show one week apart), I think they could keep the long form campaign while reducing hours of catchup. TO get metrics on which people are interested in Crit Role versus just D&D, I would look at the actual play for the other games they played (like the Link one-shot, the Candella show, and the daggerheart actual-play episodes).
I cannot agree more with your take on interparty relationships. One thing that bothered me a lot about this show was the lack of small scale bonding that the party should have gone through. It feels like they're all stuck doing a group project and they all have group project trauma. Putting small quests in the beginning really does help create a good stepping ground for the party to bond and laugh together. The mighty nein were so good because they had that chance to do silly small things mixed in with the larger scale conflicts. I hope in campaign 4 we will get the chance to have small quests
Yeah I think the writing is on the wall that whatever comes next will be in Daggerheart. And as for the gods, I think Matt has been pretty clear that they're gone, personally. It is up to the players & their dice what happens, but ultimately whether it ends in death, Calamity, or success, the Gods will likely be going away no matter what. I don't think Campaign 3 ended up anywhere near as they expected. It likely was going to start hinting at a red moon, but with all the controversies with WotC, a neat opportunity for a new beginning, and being able to fully own everything themselves, they chose to alter its path and go from the herald of the end, to THE end. I can't imagine this won't be an enjoyable finale to this world, and I'm sure we'll get some insanely cool follow up materials in comic books etc. on those stories we have missed. I just can't help but be sad that there's so much we didn't get on these characters in the campaign. But things need to end, and what better an ending than closing a 10 year chapter with a bang. Or maybe a Big Bang? Who knows.
I just can't stand the idea that "Oh, Vox Machina saved the world from two horrible cataclysms! The world was never the same, but it healed...until 27 years later, when the entire world blew up and reshaped because *insert rights issues here*. Presenting Exandria 2.0, free of anything that could possibly tie us to WotC!"
@@pocketfullofbees7071 Just theories based on how they've reacted. The lack of really mentioning much around WotC while releasing their own TTRPG that is meant to compete against theirs, speaks the loudest. And they strive to own every bit of their own thing, using their newly created TTRPG rather than one where the creators can and have tried pulling the rug from under them, is definitely more favourable. And it also makes sense from a marketing point of view: not using your own game on stream would hurt people seeing, understanding and getting used to those new rules. Sure the show games have existed, but if they jumped straight back to D&D books for the next major series, something would definitely feel off. And as for the gods going? Something Matt has done a lot more this campaign, and I don't know if the players ever actually picked up on it, but he had a much more leniency on the player choices. Not that C1 or C2 were railroaded, but they tended to have pretty clear objectives. C3 was significantly more fuzzy because the characters weren't heroes, so Matt never forced them to become that. And so when he says something that is very hardline, it really jumps out. And one of the things every god they've communed with has said, is that this can't stay as it is. And we saw seeds of that sown in others during Calamity. So to me it seems very clear that no matter what happens in this final battle, the world is being wiped of the gods. Whether the world goes with them is Bells Hells' fight.
I already have to carve out the time to watch CR in my kinda full schedule and I do so, because I got hooked on a group of nerdy best friends and their DM to guide them. They just have so much chemistry and banter and sparks and all the words that describe positive human interaction. And then on top of that, Matt forges these storylines worthy of world-class authors like Tolkien or Lovecraft, but with the authentic bum-f*ckery of a true D&D campaign. Whenever they drop a one shot or an "alternative reality" thing like the battle royals, I'm always almost relieved because I don't watch these episodes and have a little more time on my hands to catch up on the main campaign. All this to say: If it's no longer the main cast with Matt as the DM, I am fairly certain that I would not continue to carve these hours out of my week. There is a lot of entertainment out there and I'll find smaller bites for sure, if the original hook of the nerdy-ass voice actors playing D&D isn't there anymore... But obviously I'm just one viewer and in the end they don't have to make their decisions based on ANY viewer feedback, if they don't want to. I'm just putting my little X in the "please don't" column in the pre-election polls...
If I had to pick two dudes and two ladies to join the roster of the cast, total dream choices would be Robbie Daymond, Brennan Lee Mulligan, Aimie Carrero and Ashly Burch.
Great picks, mine would be the same if we're going with people we have seen recently. Otherwise I'd love to see Deborah Ann Woll, either as DM or player! ♥ And not to forget Alexander Ward and Josephine McAdam! ♥
I feel like most of your predictions are focused too much on what would make sense from a business POV. The cast was always pretty open about the main campaign being both the heart of what they do and one of the only moments in busy weeks where they can relax. So I really doubt they will phase out cast members during C4. I can see some cast members maybe having the opportunity to take breaks but their names will still be in the opening credits so to speak. I also doubt C3 will end this year. The cast will never railroad themselves just because the timing of C4 starting during their 10 year anniversary would be great. They will play as much as they like before ending it. I also think there will be more than one episode where we get the chance to see how Exandria changed after the final confrontation.
Buddy, I'm sure they say that, and to an extent, mean it, but it is still a job for them. It takes effort and a lot of scheduling and a lot of time. And life gets in the way of time. The youngest member of the core cast is 35. Most of them are in their mid to late 40s. Travis, Laura, Sam, and Liam have kids to look after. Their lives might start catching up. Their energy might fade. We already saw a member take a hiatus due to dire health issues. They aren't gonna do this forever, and even if they somehow do, it won't always be the same.
@@vishaansingh1019 I am not saying that they will do it forever. I am saying that C4 will be more or less a normal campaign where Matt is the DM and the rest is the main cast.
Couldn't agree more Luna! My only concern will be how many fans would they lose by changing from D&D 5e to Daggerheart - they will definitely promote their own TTRPG but I do wonder how many Critters would actually want to play Daggerheart and learn a whole new ruleset. Most people are very resistant to learning new TTRPGs. I would love them to play 5e24 at least for a short campaign in a more traditional setting e.g. Greyhawk in the 2024 DMG, probably with a secondary cast who might gradually take over from the founding cast. I'm sure too that CR won't want to break their connection to Brennan and Aabria, while also bringing aboard some talented new GMs e.g. the cast of Re-Slayers Take and Candela Obscura. All these changes will allow founding cast members to focus more on the continued production of TLOVM and the arrival of the Mighty Nein animated series!
I think you made a lot of great points. As a new person to the fandom, if there is a change to Daggerheart, I honestly don't have an interest in learning the system. While I may give a look to a one-shot, and enjoy the performances the cast provides; I feel I'll be pulled out of it if the main campaign is a case of learning the game system in addition to what is going on in the story.
Many Critters need to broaden their horizons. There are far more easier systems than 5e out there, and I'm not even talking DH or anything CR produced. Btw CR themselves said they'll also be playing systems that are not 5e and not DH/CO
I don't care about which game system they use. I care about the story telling. As long as they keep telling amazing stories, I'll keep listening. I suspect many listeners (like myself) are not regular TTRPG players. Let them use what ever system works for them! Didn't they start pre stream playing the Vox Machina campaign using Pathfinder? So changing game systems is hardly unprecedented. If you are a massive D&D fan and are fully invested in that game system, I get why you might be reluctant to see Crit Role change. But for me the system is just a structure to enable shared storytelling. And I trust the folk at Critical Role to keep telling amazing stories.
I’m curious if they change the cast, the system, and the length of episode, what is left from the original format that brought all their viewers in the first place.
I think they’ll be adding separate campaigns, perhaps a 5e long term campaign and new one with maybe daggerheart. They just launched beacon and without additional concurrent content that can draw subscribers, will it be sustainable? I think they’ll continue to add cast members. Perhaps we get one more campaign with the founding cast and begin the transition.
Great video, Luna! I hope you get to the 25K, you deserve it! About the ending being potentially railroaded: I think Matt has indeed given the players multiple options... But most of them lead to the same place, the gods being gone one way or another. For them to stop Ludinus before he releases Predathos would be a great feat, but also kinda saying "No, and..." to the main theme of the conflict in and out of universe. Even in the best scenario possible I suspect the main pantheon will say "We are so harmful to you that we have agreed to leave. Have fun with the other 90% of supernatural entities that can totally destroy mortal life" About a potential Marquesian setting book: GODS, I WISH. I've been wanting them to do something like that as part of the 10 year celebration, but so far it seems that we get mostly live shows, which, no offense, as a citizen of a country I know they'll never visit, it's like nothing at all. About the loose ends of C3: Honestly, I think that specific aspect of the story did have railroading, at some point it was decided they have to focus on the ultimate goal so the secondary quests just... faded. About their plans between campaigns: I don't know if you noticed, but a week or so ago ALL the episodes of The Re-Slayer's Take were uploaded in CR's TH-cam channel. It is audio only, but the fact that it is now available here too makes me suspect that they will use it as a replacement campaign for the time being. With a weekly episode it is likely they will finish their second season this month, then a short break... And they could release the 3rd season with great announcements, telling the audience to listen to S1 and S2 since they're very short (it is very rare for an episode to even reach 1h). What do you think?
As always like hearing your thoughts. I’ve assumed for some time that they’d individually move on to other things, but as others (maybe even you) have pointed out, they are friends doing a thing together…so maybe they’ll just age gracefully and keep playing. The one real quirk into schedules and such are children, so as the kids age into teens with more time-needed activities, maybe that might impact some at the table?
I agree w/ a lot of this...but the cast changes (or at least full changes/dropping casts), because omfg if changing system is a gamble, having the possibility to not see fav cast members in CR is a huge risk!!!!... only lord knows how big the riot outside CR HQ would be if they drop Laura Bailey for example 🤣. So imo i think what would happen is that MAYBE they'll have more than one campaign running weekly and more than one group at the same time chronologically. With possibly they main campaign and founding cast on thursdays and other groups other days with different DMs like Abbria or Brennan. AND THEN when the narrative calls for it, maybe in the main campaign a founding cast steps down to let a "side" cast shine while they themselves take their place in the secondary campaign's table.
I don't mind the changing casts as much as DMs. I just find the DMs style shapes the whole tone of the game, and there are certain DMs who's style just isn't for me.
I have been a critter since day 1 when they started streaming on geek & sundry and the reason I got back into DnD heavily. I am along for the ride whatever they do in the future be it good or bad it's for a reason and I will still be here supporting them.
I agree that C4 is probably Daggerheart but I think the founding cast will be there for the whole campaign. But I could imagine a side campaign that airs every last thursday (the main campaign's off week) with a totally different cast and GM. This side campaign would serve as an introduction to the new cast of C5 or maybe C5 mixes the new cast and founding cast so C6 (we'll hopefully get there) will be all new cast. Whether the side campaign is DND or Daggerheart is another question, though I could see that one being DND to draw in new people with the brand recognition, who would then be used to the new cast from the getgo and who might want to check out the main Daggerheart campaign.
My only gripe with C3 (more of this year in the CR side) is the fact that they will switch to daggerheart that imho just doesn't look and seem AS fun as D&D. i love my dices, i love to use several and diverse dices for different things, using only a few of them is very boring for me ngl. but again...that's me and my opinion. i'm sure a lot of people love it
A friend of mine, who I do disagree with, waxes poetic about the d20 as if any other polyhedron can't replace it due to the history and experiences people have with it. He started talking about how his kid rolled a crit to save their character and how it wouldn't be the same using a different die. I'm not nearly as attached since I'm tired of systems that are all about slightly modifying a d20 roll.
That's a good reason for you not to play Daggerheart. But if you look deep inside yourself, do you honestly care which of her hundreds of dice Laura Bailey is rolling, or do you care about the tension that comes from the impact of the roll on the story?
I'm not sure I'm getting what you mean. Dnd is 80% of rolling one or two d20 at a time, while doing damages with other types of dices. Daggerheart is 80% of rolling 2d12 and rolling other dices for damages.
I think that above even the RP and characters, what really makes CR is the deep friendships we see. Of being invited to sit alongside a group of friends. I have long held that being the core draw of CR, and the potential loss of that in any significant way, is going to be by far the biggest 'risk' possible, and potentialy sound the begining of an unrecoverable decline...which could well be a long very slow one, but nevertheless.
I don’t know that they would definitely quit DnD entirely, but if they do choose to use Daggerheart for C4, I’ll be glad to have the quicker combat with that system, because I get bad combat fatigue from the regular DnD version.
I agree. Campaign 4 will be Daggerheart set in Exandria. They already announced among their 10 year anniversery live shows, that one of the one shots will be daggerheart set in Exandria. So Matt's already adapting Exandria to the changes and new stuff in daggerheart.
Thank you so much for the breakdown, and for keeping it spoilerfree for people like me who havent caught up with campaign 3 yet. Your effort is appreciated❤
I absolutely agree that CR is about the players, characters and stories. :) You won't get the occasional high of "Natural 20!" without D&D, but that's a small sacrifice to make!
totally agree about the time jump. i think this is the perfect finale to wrap up all the cameos and start anew. and you still have the history, and the legacy. it's not like there won't be any easter eggs at all. also some people live foreveeeer (unless they permadie in the next few months. that would be unfortunate lol)
I could absolutely see them shift to couple-month long 'series' campaigns, the way you'd have a streaming platform release multiple different shows with 1 season per year. If slightly longer versions of ExU mini-campaigns became the new norm, it would allow them to use different systems for different series (a D&D series, a Daggerheart one, a Candela one, etc.) which could either be set in Exandria or entirely new worlds. It'd also enable them to bring in new core players and DMs who reappear every year, give them scheduling and production flexibility, give the OGs extended breaks, and then they always have the option to re-start a 'big boy' campaign whenever they were ready. I'm really excited for the future.
I agree. Since seeing those 2025 live show announcements I’ve been pretty sure we will get a shakeup with the cast next year. Maybe having some cast in a new d&d campaign and some doing a daggerheart campaign. That gives Matt a chance to pass the dm torch for critical role and focus on being the face of daggerheart. Though it could also be just some cast taking a step back from the weekly streams so they can focus on other aspects of the company, or their families and health. Personally I wonder if we see Aabria step into the dm chair for the next main campaign. She is a pretty familiar face now having dm’ed EXU, candela, in C3, played in calamity, and regularly features in their merch. She’s also a seasoned dm and pretty familiar with the world, so however C3 ends I feel she would be comfortable leading a new d&d based long-form campaign. Her dm style is just different to Matt’s so it would take adjusting for the fanbase.
I wouldn't really say there is little time for side quests, it's just that they're weaved more neatly into the main story. I mean apart from that I don't think there's much to explore in the PCs stories to warrant a side quest. If you think about it, Ashton's back story was explored throughout the main story as a little side note cuz if you pushed it as it's own separate thing it would derail the urgency of the whole situation. Chetney's thing is that he becomes a were creature sometimes uncontrollably and that was explored and resolved within (if I remember correctly) a few episodes. Laudna's thing being the more prevalent side adventure cuz it envilves Delilah f*ckin Briarwood and that's resolved for the time being as of now. Imogen's story is basically the main story because she happens to be tied to a world changing event. I don't think that was intended tho, I believe it just kinda happened that way. FCG's backstory and origin was somewhat explored with him reconciling with Dancer, but unfortunately he died before we could explore his ties to Aeor or D. Which in hindsight might have been the plan, to have FCG leave for a bit to explore that on his own while he's getting treated for his throat cancer. Dorian, Fern and Orym have the entirety of EXU, plus Kymal for Dorian. Orym's backstory is more weaved into the main story as you said and Fern's backstory was explored briefly and was basically resolved. And Braius is entirely new and is basically a redemption story, any conflict is fully internal and he LITERALLY just talked to the people who ruined his life and gained a new perspective on his own faith. Any and all exploration is just gonna show itself within the episodes like how same did it with FCGs faith. Bottomline they didn't have much backstory to explore to warrant a fully separate side thing apart from Laudna. I love the way Matt's been doing stuff with weaving it into the main story so you still have the urgency of the situation at hand and still make his players feel like their stories matter.
what they could do is to have a guild at the ready for their new troop - so if anyone wants to step away they can be substituted by guests playing guild partners
The Indy live show is supposed to be a Daggerheart one shot set in Exandria so IDK about main campaign but I believe they’re going to use it quite a bit.
I agree with all your predictions! I think they've been subtly preparing the fanbase for change for basically the entirety of Campaign 3, and Campaign 4, if there is still a flagship show in that sense, will continue and ramp up the pace of the change. I get the impression that the main cast is burning out, or at least are preparing for that inevitably, and they understand that they can't keep this pace forever, so the changes are not only for the good of the company, but good for their health. That's full speculation on my part though. I don't know them.
A new system could quite easily make it easier to follow and watch Case in point: a lot of Dimension 20 series have used tweaked “Kids On…” systems and it really streamlines actions.
I think these predictions are pretty on point. I especially hope/think that the next campaign will be se in the future. Bunch of telepathic aliens moving to exandria (regardless of outcome of campaign 3) could even explain new species popping up (evolution or even driving into the light “hidden” ones)
I think they may split the founding cast into *two* campaigns, one with 5E and one with daggerheart. Then they add in a few new regulars like luis carazo and robbie daymond. Probably Aabria DMs the 5E campaign and Matt takes the DH campaign.
Since Aabria seems to love other systems, especially systems with more roleplay than hard combat, I think she would prefer Daggerheart. It is Matt's baby (along with Spencer) so who knows.
Back when they announced EXU before C3 had been released, I had theorized that they were going to have multiple cast members through out the season, I also theorized that we’d have other campaign members in this story, that all of this was leading to the end of CR using 5e. Here we are several years later, and we are dealing with a world ending god, a god that could shake the pantheon of CR to its core, a world event that could change MAGIC as we know it. If your going to under go a system change in your stories, you need it to make sense, and thus far, I get it and understand. C4 imo will have a few less original cast members, and newer members like Robby. They have built their empire, now they need to run it.
I think that the main campaign for C4 will be a new setting with daggerheart, but the main cast and a new DM, new cast playing 5e will continue in shorter adventures in exandria
I'd be very happy for them to go to a 2 episodes a month schedule (one week on one week off) for the main campaign with lots of other bits in between. I've really enjoyed Worlds Beyond Number with the slower release but with a consistent pace, and it's less disappointing than having a run of three episodes then nothing if that makes sense
My guess is underwater mermaid campaign many years in the future. People underwater probably don't give a rats about existing npcs on the land so that would give it some separation also from past campaigns.
This video is incredibly theory brained and engagement farm feely. I just don't like how businessy this is discussed. What makes Critical Role so fun for me is the cast. Even tho its a show, they are a group of friends. A genuine group of friends, who had incredibly chemistry together from episode 1 of campaign 1. It is not a group of actors, trying to create a show, it's a group of friends doing a show who happen to be amazing actors too. Coming from my DnD friend group's perspective, we can do this until we all die. I think what changes is more the background stuff. Creating this show is a lot of effort, and outsourcing the background works, helps the cast focus on the game itself, and not burnout from making this show. Yes the cameras are there, but essentially, it's still just an exciting DnD game. I don't really see any of them stepping down, as they all look super invested in all of this.
For context, I started watching CR just after VM wrapped. The first episode I ever caught live was the post campaign Battle Royale. So, late 2017. I'm fine with either Daggerheart or D&D, but I agree that developing a new system and not using it is crazy. I think your timeline for the end of BH is spot on. Either by the end of the year or by March. The only question is if they wrap before Daggerheart officially launches, will they fill the gap with one shots in D&D or go ahead and start C4 before Daggerheart officially launches. There's nothing really to keep them from starting 'early', but coordinating it with the launch would probably work better. That is, if they plan to use Daggerheart for C4. In regards to a time jump, it would set up the emergence of new Ancestries like the Fungril and Ribbets. They evolved over time maybe. Or a location change could help with that as well, as you said. Lastly, cast-wise... The hardest part of getting into the EXU was new cast members. Having OGs helped A LOT so I agree that they may have to be very careful with bringing in new long term people, but it can obviously be done as evidenced by the love Robbie has received. Either way, it's getting real and I am HERE for it!
I agree with the cast change hesitancy concern. I remember in episodes 1-3 of C3, people were not happy with Robbie being added in (granted this was the Twitch chat which can get pretty toxic). But when Dorian left with Cyrus, it seemed like the entire Critter community was devastated and were begging to have him become permanent.
Matt Mercer has created a brand new TTPG system, Darrington Press is selling it, there is no way that Matt Mercer is not leading a dagger heart campaign and the cast will step down and not keep playing, Dagger heart releases in the Spring, they will do some more one shot episodes to push sales of that and then release probably 1-2 expansions to Daggerheart in 2025 (I would not be surprised if an Exandria Daggerheart source book is released). I think 2025 will be a goodbye to DnD, and by extension a goodbye to the campaign characters, at least in DnD form. Maybe they will port them over to Daggerheart but I can also see Matt saying that campaign 4 starts 500 years in the future and all known characters are dead? So I expect us to see campaign 4 start at the back end of 2025, fully daggerheart. I also think that Matt Mercer will have either come to an agreement with Wizards to carry on using Wizards material or he intends for Campaign 3 to get rid of the last of the clear wizards IP (the gods) so Daggerheart Exandria is fully free of all Wizards influence. The show is the main marketing and sales arm for the new TTRPG, so to think they will remain doing DnD, and will change system and cast all at once, is crazy. plus, the players all say they love playing in Matts world.
Changes in format wouldn't be the end of the world. I stopped being able to keep up with Campaign 3 for a variety of reasons (real life limitations on time to watch media plus maybe C3 just hasn't felt as addictive to me to help me make the time to watch it). But in the interim I started watching shows on the Glass Cannon Network. They're shorter in format, and they have a founding cast but they also have many games going on in which that cast is mixed and matched with other folks. So they have a main line campaign, and then they have other campaigns going simultaneously. It works for them, no reason it couldn't work for CR.
I'm really surprised you didn't mention Beacon once. The additional cast & DMs, the new shows - its obviously how they're gauging interest in new material & introducing it to their most devoted fans to get their buy-in first.
I wouldn't get too influenced by the cutesiness of their Daggerheart streams. It's a flexible system that doesn't have to be cute, but for those streams the cast just wanted to be silly and blow off some steam. I believe they even teased a more dark, Dark Souls-like campaign frame.
Yeah. I dunno how I can say this without coming off as rude, but there's been a "vibe" since C2 of things becoming a lot...girlier? Not inherently a bad thing, sure, but there's only so much unicorns and cupcakes and neon I can stand before it starts feeling infantilized.
Knowing that the main campaigns are basically their home game, they are likely not going to change for a business decision and change if they feel like it fits them best. One of their live shows is using DaggerHeart for an Exandria game, but because of how the Menagerie has been received, I think they might have two long running games going on side by side. One in a new DaggerHeart world and the other in Exandria. If they are to switch Exandria to DaggerHeart, I think it would take much longer than the start of C4. I could see them starting with EXU games and then eventually switching, but I don’t think we should be predicting business moves considering that the cast does what they want and what would be most fun for them. Not what gets them the most views. As well, in that same interview you mentioned, they said that they view the first 3 campaigns as a trilogy, so it is very likely the next campaign will be quite separate. I don’t think it would be 100 years though. Maybe 30 or 50 so that most of Vox Machina are gone or off doing their own thing, while Bell’s Hells could still be around for possible further reference if they do choose. I also don’t think that they will start their new game right at the 10 year anniversary. Since we don’t know when C3 will end exactly, and according to Matt, no matter what Bell’s Hells do the world will enter a new era, they need A LOT of time to plan what comes next. I think they might do some short EXUs or oneshots between that time to show the immediate aftermath of the campaign and to explore some loose threads if they don’t explore them by the campaigns end (after the solstice they might play a little longer to tie up some quick and easy things and like with the MN final, we will likely get a heads up when we’re nearing the end). All in all, I am really looking forward to the future of CR. They have expanded so much and there is so much left to explore with in their worlds and beyond. Super hyped! (Edit: Spelling and Grammar)
Something that I haven't seen mentioned to much is that the Indy live show is set in Exandria using the Daggerheart system. That might be their way of dipping their toes into the water to test out the possibility of C4 using DH
For me, I think of it very similarly! But I have my own slight twists on the theories, 1. I think the campaign will be over by End of January. Campaign 4 announcement will happen on the 10th anniversary, with a twist. 2. There will be two campaigns that will alternate week to week. One will be DM’d by Matt and feature 2 founding members, and 4 non founding members. This campaign will be played with Daggerheart. The Flagship campaign, the one billed as C4, will feature 3 founding members, and 4 non founding members. This will use 2024 D&D, but feature a new DM. Both campaigns will take place in Exandria, after the events of C3. And both will feature cross overs with one another from time to time. 3. I think Sam and Travis will be hanging up their hats permanently as players. They will still play one shots, and other minor stories, but their times as main players are over, as they shift more towards the production side full time.
I would LOVE to see campaign 4 about 500 years in the future. Puts them far enough away to where we can't go back and rely on previous characters (Keyleth) but there are still the occasional references such as statues of some of the recent parties (Vox Machina especially since they were more widely known than M9 and BH), or the vestiges showing up still, etc.
Matt mentioned in an interview years ago they were going to phase in new people and phase out the original people. However, that was years ago, so it seems strange that hasn't started to happen yet. I was surprised when Robbie didn't become the first new add, but I guess he's mostly been in C3, so that's a partial step. I don't know if it's the best idea to move Exandria into Daggerheart. They have a chance for a 'clean start'. It was stated that for the December show it would be in a 'new setting' within Daggerheart. I was guessing that would be the preview for the world that the (first) Daggerheart campaign would be set in. (But not the characters since I guess those will be random and influenced by the live audience.) But then they announced the August DH game would be in Exandria. Is that a partial conversion? Just story or lore elements? Just for marketing Daggerheart since people are familiar with Exandria? Or secretly in the works as a campaign book (the first?) they are already working on in secret and hoping to be like, "Surprise, here is the Exandria setting book with 135 new cards which includes 4 new classes, 3 new ancestries, and 3 new communities. It comes out in a month, pre-order now." Because, yes, from a marketing standpoint Exandria in DH makes a lot of sense. Convertign an existing thing to a new system is a lot less work for them. But from a 'this is a new system with all new world settings' it doesn't. And as much as that marketing money is tempting, I don't know, I feel like a 'clean break' and doing all new things sounds like the more appealing choice for a new system. I wouldn't be completely surprised if S4 became a split thing with S5 where they have now a new cast running alongside the main show, either as always being the '4th week' or splitting 50/50. And that one of those would still be D&D. They have always dodged the question of 'are they dropping D&D' by saying things like "we are using multiple systems." I'd think if D&D were completely out, or even just a much smaller part, they'd say 'we will be primarily focused on our new Daggerheart system,' or 'we will primarily be focused on systems by Darrington Press,' instead of saying what they've been saying.
I totally agree that campaign 4 is 99% likely going to be using daggerheart. They already mentioned one of the live shows is going to be Daggerheart in Exandria.
With the inclusion of growing Becon content, another possibility is running more than one long campaign with staggered scheduling. This could be done with a smaller table on each (5 players instead of 7-8) and provide a bit more spacing between episode filming to allow founding members to engage in other responsibilities. It could also mean a dagger heart campaign and a DnD campaign. It would also help bring in another permanent DM to give Matt some space too. My guess was that the scheduling with Candella content may have been a test run for scheduling viability. That's my half baked prediction at least.
Before C3 started I saw something, and I don't remember what exactly it was, but my immediate reaction was 'Talesien will be the first to step away'. That's a feeling that's only got stronger as C4 has moved along. Mind you, I also think it's possible given his recent surgery that Sam may decide this is a thing he needs to step away from, but my money is still on Talesien. Either way, change is inevitable (except from vending machines) and CR has done their best to build solid foundations. I do think any handover to a non-Matt DM for a main campaign would have to be handled very carefully, moreso than swapping out a player for a new person, but even that is manageable. Between Aabria and Brennan and Liam and Ashley and Marisha,, they've demonstrated that people can and will watch CR content if Matt isn't in the drivers seat, but I think it would simply be a bigger pill to swallow. I'm going to keep watching one way or the other, until it stops being fun. As long as it's fun, I'll keep watching. it's really that simple for me, and I really hope you keep doing the recaps and the like, because I enjoy them too.
I really enjoy Critical Role, but I’ve found it hard to fully dive in because the campaigns are just so long. As a father, a husband, someone with a full-time job, and friends to spend time with, the idea of committing to three years for a single campaign feels overwhelming-and, honestly, a bit exhausting. I absolutely loved Calamity; it was incredible-one of the best stories I’ve ever experienced, whether in books, TV, or live play. The limited, self-contained nature made it exciting, and the storytelling was nearly perfect. My wife and I also started watching The Mighty Nein. We enjoyed a lot about it, but it was too long to stay fully engaged. Some of the story elements also felt a bit too explicit and dark for our taste, so we ended up stepping away around episode 18. On top of that, the show often brought in too many political agendas, which I don't necessarily mind in art sometimes, but it often felt heavy-handed and distracted from the story.
I personally think they will keep their main show OR RATHER the show we know, as dnd long format. Yes CR is build largely on the personalities and the stories, but i think underestimating the impact of 5e had on the popularity would be a mistake. 5e is what 90% of their audience plays and all though many might watch no matter what system they play but its gonna create a disconnect when its not the same system. Also at the time C4 would start daggerheart has been out like a month, so trusting that system to sustain popularity for a long running campaign without any real testing is a gamble and half IMO the best way forward for C4 would be staying in dnd but having a second show with a brand new cast (maybe with people we already know and love) playing Daggerheart. I think Daggerheart is way more suited to shorter campaigns, so having maybe 2 or 3 daggerheart campaigns per year while a long running dnd game is going would be awesome. If lets say they do Daggerheart as their own main show i fear the system is gonna be (excuse a gross term) somewhat inbred. We already have the Matt Mercer effect and now its gonna be the Matt Mercer effect, with a game Matt (and spencer) made, played every week by Matt. Putting new people front and center to promote their new game on a similar scale of the show we know, would not only allow for them to introduce new people that the audience can get familiar with before, like you say, the main cast inevitably wanna step back at some point. But also show that they believe in the system more than just their brand and main cast.
Matt said in a recent interview that they will always include DnD but they do want to incorporate their own systems. I don’t believe they are doing the main campaign via Daggerhart.
I think season 4 will be Daggerheart...just makes sense. I also am leaning toward the idea we will get another calamity, or something like it will happen to aid the transition. Ruidus will either be destroyed and it's inhabitance be moved to Exandria, or it will be somehow absorbed by Exandria...Myceit (fungus) race on Ruidus will become the Fungril. I mean, you have a moon sized mass orbiting a planet that is then halted...what happens when the bridge is destroyed...does it continue it's orbit? Does it get destroyed? Does it get drawn by planets gravity?...I don't see Exandria getting out of this unscathed.
My predictions: Current campaign ends before Christmas. New campaign starts in late Jan or February. C4 uses Daggerheart rules and a completely new setting. At least one permanent cast member change: one OG leaves and is replaced by Robbie, Aabria, or someone else. I'll keep watching even if there are big changes.
I'll watch pretty much everything which contains my faves out of the cast having fun/being engaged. Personally I would love more one-shots and miniseries, Everything Is Content, and more roundtables, especially something aimed at new GMs. I don't really care if there is one single main campaign with all the founding cast, and I barely care which system they use; genre and tone is slightly more important. As a general principle, even when I dislike some of the results, I support experiments in both form and content. I like the D20 "crossovers" and welcome more cooperation with other APs even if that adds to my already immortality-requiring To Watch list... My comfort shows/episodes happily aren't going anywhere, because I will continue to rewatch them! Getting NEW favorite content once in a while is a nice bonus.
Actually, fairly early on, we had something that I don't recall having happened before... a guest character playing someone who was thoroughly antagonistic to the party. Since I haven't seen the character sheet (and I know Critical Role tends to not go strictly on alignment anyways), I'm unsure if the guest character was actually EVIL, but their actions were clearly in direct opposition to the party and they were extremely antagonistic. As far as I can recall, none of the guest characters in c2 were evil and I can only remember 1 in c1 who was (maybe) evil, though it's been a long time since I've listened to that portion of the campaign. One thing I'd love to see is a dual story campaign, alternating weeks. Maybe Matt could DM one group for Liam, Sam, Marisha and Ashley, while Taliesin, Robbie, Laura, Travis (and maybe someone new) could play a separate story, under the same overarching time frame, with opportunities for some crossovers between the two groups, depending on schedules and where stories lead. Not set on those groups, of course, just picking somewhat arbitrarily as an example! I'd be down to watch any system, but I'd like to see the same/mostly the same main cast members. It's been really hard for me to get into some of the off-shoots, like ExU (Downfall was the only ExU stuff I actually got through, which was greatly aided by Taliesin, Laura and Ashley being in the cast), due to having a different cast that I just don't really vibe with. I think for me to be able to get into watching it easily, it would have to include at least 50% current cast member (Matt, Travis, Laura, Marisha, Sam, Liam, Taliesin, Ashley, Robbie). I'd also very, very much love for Robbie to stay on as a long-term cast member, if his schedule allows. I think he brings such a unique dynamic to the group. Though it took me awhile to warm up to him (and Dorian), I really felt the table dynamic shift when he was gone and then we got to see him again and that was such a happy day!
LoVM is a pretty good way to catch up in relatively short order, and it looks like they'll be giving the MN the same treatment. Once those are both released, jumping in to C3 would be considerably easier
I think we will get Campaign 4 around the time we get all the books for the 2024 rule set and that they’ll want to run a campaign with the new rule set
The thing with critical role is, despite all the other shows and things, the show is Matthew and the cast, the moment they step back people will find less reason to watch the show, me included, it’s just the bitter truth
If I could have one wish about CR, it is this: If they did make a video game based on any campaign or Exandria in general, I want Larian Studios to make it.
I think them having different DMs for different campaigns with different tones would be great. Like Matt having the classic fantasy campaign like Vox machina. Talison could run a Gothic campaign like a Castlevania or more energy version of their Candice obscura games. A sci-fi starfinder style campaign and so on.
Man this video has me thinking a bunch. In all honesty, I think what makes Critical Role so engaging for me is that it has always felt like friends hanging out before feeling like a show. If the future "cast members" they bring in can keep that energy, which I highly doubt they can recreate naturally, I might bring myself to like a cast switch. I do think if they are going to switch cast members for a "main campaign," then it would have to be an all in switch. They can keep Matt DM'ing, but I think it would be smoother with an entire switch of the table. Speaking of the end of C3, I think Exandria will face another calamity that reshapes history into the world of Daggerheart. I don't see a world in where Campaign three ends in a "good" light. The situation they are in is a two-sided attack on the people of Exandria. I'll make a prediction now so I can come back and laugh at myself if I'm wrong. One of the Ruidis-born in the party takes in Predathos and serves as his vessel after barely triumphing over Ludinus' side. The god's are going to witness Predathos taking over that person and some inner quarrel of power will go on between the Vessel and Predathos. The god's decide to pull the plug, even if the Vessel wins control, and start laying waste to everything. Giant battle ensues. Glorious.
It's smart to change from Dnd anyway given the new 2024 edition changes and, ESPECIALLY with how Wizards of the Coast continue their path to try and make DnD something they can add microtransactions to. Firing and laying off so many of the DnD staff, including the person who single-handedly saved their reputations the last time they had a major scandal... choosing to go with AI for their upcoming projects... Just watching some of the DnD news TH-camrs having to announce new things every other week is depressing. Luckily, Critical Role is going to run a full Daggerheart game set in Exandria with the cast. They already showed how easy it was to make Bertrand Bell as a character with Travis during the open beta. I want to see the hope and luck dice and open initiative in a setting we all know and love. It's going to be so good!
I definitely don’t think ending C3 in 2024 is remotely possible. 6 episodes with 3 different battles would leave a deeply unsatisfying conclusion for the BH characters, which, despite the complaints and controversy, the cast love playing. I could see this one running til the end of February and the time up to and after the anniversary being the wrap-up and then some ExU miniseries with guests. I also predict C4 wouldn’t start til at least after the Australia live shows, they’re gettin’ older, the break between campaigns might be a bit longer. I also kind of just want Daggerheart to be its own thing? If they make their flagship show permanently Daggerheart, the community will start to see Exandria as ‘the official Daggerheart setting’. And it would inevitably hamper the core intent of the system, to build a setting collaboratively. Exandria is already deeply established. And running one-shots with it is a fun change, but might not be what they want for their new system, which isn’t inherently connected to Exandria at all.
The main thing that concerns me with the idea of the main cast stepping back is that, as someone who has been watching from the G&S beginning, the big thing that drew me in to CR is that the "cast" wasn't a cast at all, but an actual D&D group that just happened to be made up of an incredibly talented group of actors and improvisers.
For me, the chemistry at the table can't be synthesized. Robbie fits the group well, but most guests, despite being enjoyable, have felt like guests.
@@fuzziestlumpkin Even Robbie feels like he's on the outside a lot. When he engages, he's great, but I've noticed that he ends up quiet and/or slightly sidelined and seems to need others to pull him in sometimes.
Completely agree, and I've been watching for as long as you have, though I stopped watching during C3 a bit ago. I'll be coming back soon.
My favorite guest ever is Darin De Paul. The gravitas he brought to the table was like none other. And additionally, the way he brought comedy to the game while still staying completely true to the character... truly a masterclass in roleplaying. But like you said, I recognize he was a Guest very clearly. As excellent as Sprigg was, his contribution was intense enough that it could quickly "get old" in long form play. There are a few guests I believe could survive more naturally when mixing with the main cast for long, and out of those, I believe Robbie is by far the best pick. It's a mix of bringing a character that's made in a way that feels natural within the group's adventures AND easily fitting their sense of humor and storytelling.
I agree. I’m watching Downfall 99-101 right now and it’s a slog watching it with the fill ins, as good as they are. And nobody beats Matt’s ability to tell a story.
Honestly, after midway through Campaign 2 when they formed their own company, it hasn't felt like an actual D&D group. It felt like a produced show. That's not to say it's scripted, but I think the cast cares a little too much about what they do and say and are reining themselves in to make the show more dramatic but in actuality it has made it less relatable.
Make Robbie main cast petition where?
To me, Critical role is Matthew Mercer. I occasionally watch their other shows, but I would watch the main show significantly less if he no longer DM's it. I love all the cast members, but it's his DMing and storytelling that keeps it all together.
They can change systems. They can bring in guest characters, and even guest dm's. But the moment there's a significant drop in him running the game, I think there will be a big shift in viewers.
Exactly. Like I love the occasional one-shot where one of the other members takes the reigns or we get a brief switch with Brennan or Aabria, but the og cast and Matt’s storytelling is really, truly why I’m drawn to CR and I know I’m not alone there.
Same, if matt mercer and the og cast leaves, then thats it for me. CR is my comfort show.
Agreed
Yeah, I love all of the cast members, but Mercer is what gives CR that special something you can’t find anywhere else. However, as a DM I sympathize with him having to create these massive, publicly criticized, back to back campaigns. The pressure and stress and endless work he has to be doing, along side his voice acting career, has to be exhausting. I don’t want another DM, but I also wouldn’t mind them taking a year off or something to let the poor guy rest for a while….
They could run the whole show with Travis, Matt, Liam, & Sam. The rest are more or less just fluff.
The change of system won’t really bother me at all, however change of cast, especially DM will be tricky. That’s where you can quickly lose people if you are not careful, despite how good the new people would be.
Yep. Critical Role *is* Matt. I love Brennan, and his style is incredible, but it isn't Matt's. And Aabria is...Aabria (I wish they'd stop trying to push her when the reception to anything she's done that hasn't been a one-shot is universally negative.)
@@vishaansingh1019 Aabria did some cool stuff on Dimension 20 (misfits and magic, courts of fey and flowers...), and she's usually a really good player (I really like her in NY by Night for example). I'm not a big fan of her Exandria unlimited campaign either but hey, she's really not all bad.
@@valentinr.120 I know she's good with goofy/crazy stuff, which is fine, but it doesn't mesh well with Critical Role, unless it's a non-canon one-shot, which is my point. She said on Twitter that she wants her campaigns to be like Fast and Furious 9, which uh, is not what I want out of CR's future.
Agreed, I actually like other stuff she has done, I just don't think her style fits CR very well.@@vishaansingh1019
@@Wulfgar23111 Yes this. I try and get into other shows and GMs but none catch me like Matt and the crew do. I really struggle to stick with other shows.
I'll be honest, if the original cast doesn't start a new campaign, and instead they do some random cast and micro campaign and one-shots or something like that, I'll probably dont watch anything. I love them and I love that they have more content other than the main campaign with the main cast, but part of what I like to see is the eight of them interacting and having a good time. Having a variable cast will not be the same.
I'm fine with them changing from 5e to maybe daggen heart system, but I want the 8 og members, not a whole new ensemble each week or something like that
I started my CR adventure with Campaign 2, and i love it so much. There is a place for simple story, starting in a tavern, practicly nobodys getting their first tighing them all quest, with different aproaches to this new party, getting to know each other, a lot of side-quests, where team is build and relations are made. So different personal stories, which we can live through with the cast of CR. Every single member of M9 is just a regular human(or else) being, with thier respectfull problems and characthers, and i really loved their way of telling those stories one by one in separate archs.
Wih C3 it felt very much non-serious at the start with Travis palying old dude, who did nothing but giggle bits, with Laudna being just a big throwback to C1, and whole part with her story felt just an excuse to go to Whitestone and other locations of their beloved C1. I watched some of C1 and the animated series, and they are great, but i liked C2 way more, because it's story is standing aside of previous heroes, establishing it''s own story. Also after that wiggly start it started to go so epic really fast, moon, titans, gods and stuff...Too rapid for my tastes. So i really hoping that if there will be a C4, it will be more like C2, with maybe a few homages to previous characters, but a new story. And normal progressing storytelling, not that Avengers Endgame-like level right of the start. If we are talking MCU references, some Iron Man, First Avenger and Thor movies to start with :)
I am open about preferring C1, and I think the main thing that sets people off from it is the story already being in motion when it starts, Orion, and the janky streaming stuff. But the story is heartfelt and warm to its core (LOVM loses a lot of that). I wanted to like C2, but it just became so aimless and many of the characters spun in circles. There are parts I loved (Essek and Caleb), but it became an exercise in wasting time and I was begging for C3 to give the cast an actual story to chew on like C1. C3 had that and it just felt...empty. Like they were going through the motions? idk how to describe it. Everyone being a goofy joke character besides Orym and Imogen, who are extremely quiet, is not something I can get behind.
@@vishaansingh1019 ofc C2 wasn't ideal, no campaign was or will be, but It's my fav. Can agree with you on some comments about C3. Hope that everybody will find stmh in C4 that they could appreciate and love.
@@9miroke Honestly, I feel like the energy is gone. Something changed in the COVID 3 month break and the old vibe is never gonna come back. Made my piece with it, but I think CR peaked around 2019 or so.
Totally agree with you, friend. Excellently put and similar experience on my end. 🫶
I have similar thoughts, c2 was better cause it was more relatable and the characters were more people, c3 felt way to produced and artifical and everything is a laughing gag rather than any serious sections compared to c2. I have watched parts of c1 but c2 is my fav for sure. I just hope that c4 goes back to a bit more serious style.
Hopefully this doesn't come off as negative as I'm afraid it will, but i haven't been able to connect to C3 the way i did with 1 & 2 and i don't think it's because the game or characters are "worse" they just didn't resonate with me that much. So I'm excited to see C3 wrapping up and hoping that C4 is able to pull me in in a way that C3 just hasn't.
I'm pretty much the same, and my (very personal and subjective) opinion is that they might be getting tired of the system and its tropes, and I think switching to a non D&D game would be a welcome breath of fresh air for them to get those creative and fun juices flowing really well again.
Same here, to the point that I stopped watching somewhat early on. Just getting back into it now but it's mostly fueled by the increasingly common appearances from the characters from the other campaigns and the crossover stuff.
Yep I'm exactly the same. I ADORED campaign 2 so much but I dropped off this campaign around 30 episodes in. The story seemed to drag so much.
Have any of the main cast talked about wanting to take an extended long break, the answer being no. Hell it took Sam getting cancer to take a break and he stayed on the show while he had it until it was time for surgery and what not and even then he wasn't gone long and has mentioned how much he missed it. This is a job they can have and not work around the clock on therefor needing/getting a break is already something they partake in. This is also time for the married couples to spin time together having fun, with there close friends, not sure i have ever heard of someone needing a break from something that checks all those boxes that they also make a living off of. It's not like there doing live shows every week as they are able to record ahead of time and give themselves time off when wanted or needed. when it comes down to it they have talked about doing more and more and have never talked about pulling back one time.
Yeah from my POV they don't plan on switching the main campaigns to Daggerheart. And they are not taking a back seat at all, as "they're just getting started".
The reason why they take the last week off is so they can go on vacation for a week. Plus if they want some sort of vacation, they plan a oneshot or something like that ahead of time to allow them to take the vacation. For Christmas, they sometimes take 2 weeks off and sometimes for Thanksgiving. To me it seems quite organized in ensuring everyone doesn't feel overwhelmed and etc. As they've created a team to ensure that.
Don't think they even plan on doing shorter campaigns either, as they love the long campaigns. As you said about Sam, said he missed it a lot and when we listen to the cast speak of the campaigns, they are hella excited.
I really hope you are right, but they also seem really tired sometimes. I also noticed the “founding cast” phrase on their stuff about the live shows, and thought of exactly the same thing.
As someone who joined with campaign 3 with zero knowledge of anything critical role or D&D, I really hope campaign 4 is a better spot for newcomers. I remember being so so confused at all the past campaign references, I'm shocked I managed to stay with it. Regardless of the game system, I hope c4 takes place in a time far removed enough from c1-3 so it feels like a blank slate.
Also, a tech advance would be cool - just seeing the long long-term effect of Percy's guns, Aeor's salvaging, the shift in Pantheon etc - if anything happens in C4 it has to be a 50+year time jump
I think it would be cool if the level of interconnectedness waxes and wanes. C2 was largely removed from C1. C3 is Very connected to C2 and C1. C4 can be very far removed and C5 could get bat shit crazy
I totally agree - they said the same thing about Downfall being beginner friendly and I just can't help but feel like they are off their rockers if they think that's true. You would have missed all of the substance of the story if Downfall was ur first CR media.
I’m in the exact same boat, I started with C3 and have seen the Vox Machina animated series, but most of the references to past campaigns go over my head. I really hope C4 is far removed from the present day Exandria.
@@leahwilton785 Downfall I agree with you, but Calamity is a pretty good place to start.
Yeah as someone who started in C3, I was really confused on who Bertrand was like I was supposed to know him. There was only like 18 episodes I think when I started and after Dorian left I watched ExU as a flashback. Then to figure out who Bertrand is, I tried watching Search for Grog but didn't know Grog. So I watched Legend of Vox Machina season one. Afterwards I watched some Campaign One but I mostly just read the synopsises on the wiki to learn the story. Going to different episodes to watch sections Id wanna see, like when Vex pops out of the tub with Percy. Now after watching 30 episodes of Mighty Nien Im doing the same
I can only speak for myself but I would lose interest if the focal point from the main campaign wasn't by the OG CR cast, their personalities were what drew me to the show, sure I enjoyed the characters but the energy between them is what made it appealing to me. I've tried watching other similar format shows with other people and it just isn't the same. Nothing last forever but it sure would be a mayor bummer to see it end at all.
It's an adjustment. I'm a fan of the Theorists channels (Game Theorists, etc.). Earlier this year, MatPat retired as host of those channels, and just a couple weeks ago as host from the last channel, GTLive. They've all been taken over by new hosts. And it's different. So much of the channels, especially GTLive, was his personality. But finding the right people, easing into the transition, letting people get to know the new hosts, and keeping the format and the tone the same (while still giving the hosts the space to be themselves) has been great to make the transition as easy as possible. It's not the same, but it's still great.
CR will be too. They will need to the same things - slowly ween us off them as a cast while introducing their new cast.
I recommend 'Dungeons of Drakkenheim' by the 'Dungeon Dudes' they have a similar energy but smaller group with just 3 players a DM and a Cameraman. Its really good.
Same for me. It's the OG cast that I love. The guest are fun but that's not who I come to watch. The connection they have is what appeals to me.
I'll see your main cast, and raise you the system. If they switch to Daggerheart, I'm out, too
I absolutely agree. There are maybe 3 people I'd consider "worthy" and one of them isn't CR. If Emily Axford permanently joined I'd be permanently happy. But for the most part not only voice actors, but competent actors sets a high bar that no other channel has come close to meeting.
VLDL is ok, but sometimes a bit tiring with the insanity.
agreed on the side quest thing, i had to take a break from C3 because the main plot being the only focus was so overwhelming for me (I don’t know what’s happened between roughly episodes 20-40). I liked the flow of C1 and C2 with it being a slow build up to other things or something sneakily in the background that makes it way fully open close to the end. Also it really doesn’t feel the characters had much time to be connected like you mentioned specifically on the romance part for oyrum and dorian, and anything emotional with laudna and imogen (they’re together and delilah has been an issue in it but other than take there isn’t much for me to throw confetti at for them…i want to). They’ve all been so worried for the main plot there hasn’t been much of anything except when they go to the fey realm but that’s because they have literal time on their side to relax.
I used to be fully convinced that they were planning to switch to their new game system with C4… until we saw how Daggerheart works. Now, I absolutely do not think that’s going to happen. Sure, most critters will probably stick around for a new system, but the main issue is getting new viewers. It’s way easier to pull new viewers with “hey, all these famous voice actors have a show where they play DND” as opposed to “hey, all these famous voice actors have a show where they play this TTRPG you’ve never heard of.” I can say for sure that I would never have started watching Critical Role if they were playing a different game. Not to mention, how long could a DH campaign actually last, and still be interesting, with just 10 levels, and everyone basically sharing class features? DH just doesn’t seem like it’s that robust of a system that it could carry the main campaign. You basically couldn’t really play a character like Caleb in DH, RAW. Despite the more narrative focus, it’s actually a much more rigid system in terms of how you can build characters, and how they work. I just don’t think it could work as the main campaign’s system, and I think it would crater interest in the campaign. I’ve been wrong before, and maybe I am.
@@PatheticApathetic I completely agree. To your point, it seems catered for much smaller sized campaigns. If they change the way they do campaigns, to something more akin to Dimension 20, then I could see some merit to this. But I think as it stands, Daggerheart cannot fulfil the shoes of DND in a longer campaign setting. I wouldn’t mind either way to be fair, as long as the characters and cast stay funny and wholesome.
I feel like they will just being acting and have way less “game play “ elements. Can’t let the dice get in the way of story ….. who knows. I can see them staying with dnd , and I can also see them going all in with Daggerheart
I feel like they will just being acting and have way less “game play “ elements. Can’t let the dice get in the way of story ….. who knows. I can see them staying with dnd , and I can also see them going all in with Daggerheart
I don't know enough about Daggerheart to comment on those points, although to my knowledge the full release book isn't out yet. But I do think a lot of people put far too much weight on D&D being used as a system. Fact is, normal people couldn't care less. The biggest example of this is The Legend of Vox Machina... I have never met another CR viewer, I did convert one person during the pandemic, but several of my friends and family watch LoVM. I've even struck up a couple of conversations about it with strangers in pubs. CR is a big enough "brand" on it's own now that what system they use doesn't really matter anymore. The barrier to entry for newcomers is and will continue to be the 4 hour long episodes.
That's very true. Staying in Exandria is the only way they will get some stability in that regard, but even then, it is risky: people will be missing certain species and classes, and if they decide there is an entirely new continent between Wildemount and Issylra, for example, you can also add that in practice it will feel like a new unfamiliar setting
One aspect that I think Many fans are worried about is the possibility that the knowledge and investment they have in current Exandria will turn into dust. Right now people watch the animated series, they have their own home campaigns based in Tal'Dorei or Wildemount, the CR Wiki has more than 5000 articles talking about his world... That maybe will become unrecognisable in three months. Critical Role can play their cards right and create an epic fourth campaign, but two mistakes in a row in the eyes of the fans could be very harmful to their audience numbers
I was actually thinking more along the lines that the might be aiming for the anniversary to fall coinciding with the end of Campaign 3, which would make it about 16 eps to go (if my maths is right). Regardless, it definitely feels very close now.
I agree with your sentiments about needing smaller-scale stories at the early levels to really build the team together, I think if they had done more fun adventures like the museum heist against a rival team, and the car race in Bassuras, we would feel less like they’re only just hitting their stride now.
I think your idea about starting a fourth campaign with the founding cast and then slowly swapping cast members out throughout the story sounds pretty effective, I’d honestly like it if they did that. I know they don’t me anything and they’re allowed to retire the position if they want, but I’m a simple guy afraid of change and would appreciate the slow, gentle hand-off
As a long time critter. I personally hope for an even longer campaign with the crew just having some fun. Maybe a sandbox with smaller villians or a larger story similar to whats being finished in campaign 3 now. I would hope that they use daggerheart just because they enjoy it more.
As someone who has been on the inside side of major organizational changes during growth, I think your analysis is spot on. Way to think about their goals, risks, natural changes/needs, word choices, and such.
Cast chemistry is the biggest draw for me -- I don't play D&D. That'll be the hardest thing to reproduce. Robbie has been a big win. I really enjoy Aabria, Aimee, Luis, and others but they interact more like friends and not besties. Second is the DM -- Matt has a way of doing things that is more entertaining to me than others. I selectively watch Brennan and Aabria (I sub Dropout) but Matt I always try to watch
I think they will use both. It make sense. Using a new system its a problem regarding resources and extensions, so I would love to see a Steam Punk future in Dagerheart and a 50 some regular D&D campaign .
@MrDanlancelot @MrDanlancelot for example in a middle of a game someone turns into a Rabit, or an owl, or you need the stats for a wall, or the damage from falling 1000 meters as a fish.
When you are not sure and easy way is a quick book or internet search, of something similar or equal and then decide. As for the traits of NPC, history, all this nuance.
World building its very complicated, and 50+ years of world building by thousands of people are not easy replace, even if they use their own systems they still will use others people licenses an content.
The most logical business is to use both.
Daggerhart to short runs like D20 and D&D in regular (but shorter?) Campaigns.
I can see why they would add more people to the cast, Robbie is such a wonderful addition and the post Ley Line episodes are among my favorite, but I am confused about the assumption that the founding cast would step back from the table for longer periods of time. Has anybody openly said that they wanted to be less involved? I would miss them and think that the C3 and Exandria Unlimited formula has worked perfectly. We got to have our favorites and meet new actors already.
I don't think there's any reason to say that any of them want to leave specifically, but it has been 10 years. Eventually someone WILL want to stop. Bands break up, actors move on from their defining roles, things get stale, boring, exhausting and some people just want to change things up. That might not be campaign 4, or 5, but it will happen one day. Any speculation about specific members stepping down would just be rumours and people reading into things, but thinking more broadly and more long term, it's an inevitability.
Liam has openly talked about the massive amount of projects they have going on and how at times it is overwhelming. Sam has made similar comments, as him and Liam are the leads on the animated series and further project in that medium. Also not limiting to Sam’s healthcare with the big C that literally attacked his ability to speak. The entire cast has talked about growing the company and changing priorities in their own personal growth and goals. Even Tal has spoken in an interview shortly after the first season of Vox Machina, how they have been transitioning to a media company for some time. This is all the same trumpet that Travis has been preaching for 6+ years which obviously being the CEO, there’s a grand plan that he’s put forward that the rest of them are on board with!
@@rstlr01 This is all true, but whether that means stepping away from the table is all just speculation. Inevitable at some point, sure, but to read in to specific players mentality and whether they will or won't leave is not helpful imo. Leave it at "They will all step down one day, but idk who or when". Not you specifically, but CR fans can sometime get a bit Parasocial and try to read a lot into what the cast are thinking/feeling/planning, better to think about vague possibilities rather than specifics imo.
@ OP was asking if any had talked about stepping aside. I was just saving them the time and the effort of having to go look for the answers themselves in the hundreds of hours of random interviews I have watched. Everyone at CR are well aware they need to continue building the brand and expanding it beyond their little home game, we started watching on Geek & Sundry almost 10 years ago. Considering how brutal this fan base can be sometimes, it is truly a testament of their character and ability to weather the storms by making smart decisions.
@@rstlr01 Thank you for the summary! I do agree that the things they said don’t directly translate to them wanting to step down from the table right now, but of course we have to expect it some day. The selfish part of me obviously hopes that that doesn’t happen all too soon. As long as everybody is happy and healthy I’d like them to keep playing.
i will admit C3 has been the hardest for me to keep up with. Maybe its just my attention span changing or the characters not resinating as much ..but C1 was a lot of fun, C2 is probably my favorite, that ending kinda blindsided me about 5 episodes before i realised it was ending. hopefully when i get back into C3 itll hit more
For me it's the week off... Every time i show up ready for an episode that's a week away, it screws up my schedule and I miss it when it comes back
@@johnbd9765 i tend to binge watch in chunks rather than week to week but i feel ya
While Campaign 3 hasn’t been my favourite I am interested to see where this is going to go and how to end and I really really appreciate the risks they’ve taken what I wouldn’t mind is more EXUs set in the past cause I really want to see things like the peak calamity war and something touched on in season of the LOVM when Brimsytche said dragons ruled Exandria give me an EXU set during the reign of the dragons
C3 has to do a VERY important thing……
It has to kill the Gods and all the remaining WOTC IP out of Exandria for them to be truly independent of that…. Kraken
Not my favorite either
But I understand why
I also think it would be so interesting to go further into the past pre age of arcanum even
I don't think there will be significant, persistent, changes with the core cast. Matt talks often about how this is a game he enjoys, and it's a way for him to hang out with his friends. All things considered, they're going to want to hold on to that as long as they can.
Robbie was a good addition, and I wouldn't be surprised if they had other 'long term guests'. Travis also took the start of the campaign off, before coming back regularly, and I wouldn't surprised if similar things started happening more often. But by and large, I suspect we'll continue to see the core cast more often for many years to come.
One of the things I like a lot about CR and other live-play shows, is that I am *intimately* familiar with the rules, and have been running my own home-game for years. My *favorite* thing is that they're doing the Same Thing that I do, but just on a Grander scale. I don't really care for the Daggerheart rules-system... I've watched one of the Managerie one-shots, and while I often consider going back to watch the rest, I have yet to. If they approached it with the same seriousness of a Core Campaign, and put it in Exandria (Ruidians coming to Exandria could explain a *Lot* of the new species), I might be more interested... but I'm not sure.
I think you are very right about the goal of C3
It needs to remove the old Pantheon for CR to be truly independent of old WOTC IP.
But it doesn’t have to kill the old gods.
No matter if Predathos is defeated or not, and how many gods he chomps down on in the process, the remaining will leave, and new ones will rise
Part of me wants members of Vox Machina and The Mighty Nein to ascend into a new pantheon that watches over Exandria and protects it from outside threats but doesn't directly interfere with day-to-day affairs. It would take a group of powerful level 20s off of the board while keeping them important to the world. Make them all constellations in the sky that form a protective barrier over the world and provide those who need a deity to follow what they need while still guiding the others with their light.
They're billing the Indianapolis live show as "the first one-shot set in the world of Exandria and powered by...Daggerheart." While 'one-shot' could be key there, if they were switching to a Daggerheart campaign in early 2025, don't you think they wouldn't wait so long for the change to their one-shots?
Imagine them finishing the big fight of C3 and then in between all of the live shows we get little one-shots or short runs of the characters re-made in Daggerheart. They could tie up loose ends and deal with the fall out of whatever happens. A bunch of little side stories of any of their characters dealing with consequences of past actions...
-Jester and Isharnai maybe?
-Gwen de Rolo's secret adventuring squad?
-Return to Molaesmyr?
-Grief Counseling at the Shattered Teeth?
And then the inevitable C3 dress up one-shot live show- typically a wedding, but this time Chetney's funeral turned reverse caper as Bell's Hells has to try and steal his coffin/urn back from Waylon and his crew of insane with grief C-Poppers! Luckily they've been teamed up with an eisfuura who says they come from a long line of hot shot detectives!
They could fill the entire anniversary year with these types of one-shots since they'd have to film around traveling and live-shows and then start the new campaign after all of that. A year of fanservice while they continue making their abridged versions of episodes.
Like so many others, I love the founding cast members of Critical Role. I WILL find it harder to get into any long term campaign that does not include all of them, though. Truthfully, I simply struggle with their content that doesn't have Laura Bailey! But that's MY issue, not theirs...
I always thought something was missing from this campaign. You hit the nail on the head; no side-quests! My biggest gripe was the ramp-up on difficulty this campaign, but now that I think of it, the side-quest thing was a big missing point this campaign. I am happy that the campaign has gotten more interesting in the last 12 or so episodes though. Regarding campaign size, I think if they do the abridged option right at the outset (releasing the full show and abridged show one week apart), I think they could keep the long form campaign while reducing hours of catchup. TO get metrics on which people are interested in Crit Role versus just D&D, I would look at the actual play for the other games they played (like the Link one-shot, the Candella show, and the daggerheart actual-play episodes).
I cannot agree more with your take on interparty relationships. One thing that bothered me a lot about this show was the lack of small scale bonding that the party should have gone through. It feels like they're all stuck doing a group project and they all have group project trauma. Putting small quests in the beginning really does help create a good stepping ground for the party to bond and laugh together. The mighty nein were so good because they had that chance to do silly small things mixed in with the larger scale conflicts. I hope in campaign 4 we will get the chance to have small quests
Yeah I think the writing is on the wall that whatever comes next will be in Daggerheart. And as for the gods, I think Matt has been pretty clear that they're gone, personally. It is up to the players & their dice what happens, but ultimately whether it ends in death, Calamity, or success, the Gods will likely be going away no matter what.
I don't think Campaign 3 ended up anywhere near as they expected. It likely was going to start hinting at a red moon, but with all the controversies with WotC, a neat opportunity for a new beginning, and being able to fully own everything themselves, they chose to alter its path and go from the herald of the end, to THE end. I can't imagine this won't be an enjoyable finale to this world, and I'm sure we'll get some insanely cool follow up materials in comic books etc. on those stories we have missed. I just can't help but be sad that there's so much we didn't get on these characters in the campaign. But things need to end, and what better an ending than closing a 10 year chapter with a bang. Or maybe a Big Bang? Who knows.
I just can't stand the idea that "Oh, Vox Machina saved the world from two horrible cataclysms! The world was never the same, but it healed...until 27 years later, when the entire world blew up and reshaped because *insert rights issues here*. Presenting Exandria 2.0, free of anything that could possibly tie us to WotC!"
wrong. matt confirmed that they aren't going to another system for c4. it'll be d&d.
Do you have a source for this? /gen
@@pocketfullofbees7071 Just theories based on how they've reacted. The lack of really mentioning much around WotC while releasing their own TTRPG that is meant to compete against theirs, speaks the loudest. And they strive to own every bit of their own thing, using their newly created TTRPG rather than one where the creators can and have tried pulling the rug from under them, is definitely more favourable. And it also makes sense from a marketing point of view: not using your own game on stream would hurt people seeing, understanding and getting used to those new rules. Sure the show games have existed, but if they jumped straight back to D&D books for the next major series, something would definitely feel off.
And as for the gods going? Something Matt has done a lot more this campaign, and I don't know if the players ever actually picked up on it, but he had a much more leniency on the player choices. Not that C1 or C2 were railroaded, but they tended to have pretty clear objectives. C3 was significantly more fuzzy because the characters weren't heroes, so Matt never forced them to become that. And so when he says something that is very hardline, it really jumps out. And one of the things every god they've communed with has said, is that this can't stay as it is. And we saw seeds of that sown in others during Calamity. So to me it seems very clear that no matter what happens in this final battle, the world is being wiped of the gods. Whether the world goes with them is Bells Hells' fight.
I already have to carve out the time to watch CR in my kinda full schedule and I do so, because I got hooked on a group of nerdy best friends and their DM to guide them. They just have so much chemistry and banter and sparks and all the words that describe positive human interaction. And then on top of that, Matt forges these storylines worthy of world-class authors like Tolkien or Lovecraft, but with the authentic bum-f*ckery of a true D&D campaign. Whenever they drop a one shot or an "alternative reality" thing like the battle royals, I'm always almost relieved because I don't watch these episodes and have a little more time on my hands to catch up on the main campaign. All this to say: If it's no longer the main cast with Matt as the DM, I am fairly certain that I would not continue to carve these hours out of my week. There is a lot of entertainment out there and I'll find smaller bites for sure, if the original hook of the nerdy-ass voice actors playing D&D isn't there anymore...
But obviously I'm just one viewer and in the end they don't have to make their decisions based on ANY viewer feedback, if they don't want to. I'm just putting my little X in the "please don't" column in the pre-election polls...
If I had to pick two dudes and two ladies to join the roster of the cast, total dream choices would be Robbie Daymond, Brennan Lee Mulligan, Aimie Carrero and Ashly Burch.
Great picks, mine would be the same if we're going with people we have seen recently. Otherwise I'd love to see Deborah Ann Woll, either as DM or player! ♥
And not to forget Alexander Ward and Josephine McAdam! ♥
@@AwkwardFaceHuggerI agree, I like Deborah's style and want to see more of her as DM or player.
Personally I'd swap Ashly Burch for Abria, but other than that this would be my exact list of picks
Brennan and Emily axford for me
@@harrydadaniels Yep! Emily is great too!
I'd actually love to see them explore a completly new world, nothing related to exandria
I feel like most of your predictions are focused too much on what would make sense from a business POV. The cast was always pretty open about the main campaign being both the heart of what they do and one of the only moments in busy weeks where they can relax. So I really doubt they will phase out cast members during C4. I can see some cast members maybe having the opportunity to take breaks but their names will still be in the opening credits so to speak.
I also doubt C3 will end this year. The cast will never railroad themselves just because the timing of C4 starting during their 10 year anniversary would be great. They will play as much as they like before ending it. I also think there will be more than one episode where we get the chance to see how Exandria changed after the final confrontation.
Buddy, I'm sure they say that, and to an extent, mean it, but it is still a job for them. It takes effort and a lot of scheduling and a lot of time. And life gets in the way of time. The youngest member of the core cast is 35. Most of them are in their mid to late 40s. Travis, Laura, Sam, and Liam have kids to look after. Their lives might start catching up. Their energy might fade. We already saw a member take a hiatus due to dire health issues. They aren't gonna do this forever, and even if they somehow do, it won't always be the same.
@@vishaansingh1019 I am not saying that they will do it forever. I am saying that C4 will be more or less a normal campaign where Matt is the DM and the rest is the main cast.
Couldn't agree more Luna! My only concern will be how many fans would they lose by changing from D&D 5e to Daggerheart - they will definitely promote their own TTRPG but I do wonder how many Critters would actually want to play Daggerheart and learn a whole new ruleset. Most people are very resistant to learning new TTRPGs. I would love them to play 5e24 at least for a short campaign in a more traditional setting e.g. Greyhawk in the 2024 DMG, probably with a secondary cast who might gradually take over from the founding cast. I'm sure too that CR won't want to break their connection to Brennan and Aabria, while also bringing aboard some talented new GMs e.g. the cast of Re-Slayers Take and Candela Obscura. All these changes will allow founding cast members to focus more on the continued production of TLOVM and the arrival of the Mighty Nein animated series!
I think you made a lot of great points. As a new person to the fandom, if there is a change to Daggerheart, I honestly don't have an interest in learning the system. While I may give a look to a one-shot, and enjoy the performances the cast provides; I feel I'll be pulled out of it if the main campaign is a case of learning the game system in addition to what is going on in the story.
Many Critters need to broaden their horizons. There are far more easier systems than 5e out there, and I'm not even talking DH or anything CR produced. Btw CR themselves said they'll also be playing systems that are not 5e and not DH/CO
I don't care about which game system they use. I care about the story telling. As long as they keep telling amazing stories, I'll keep listening. I suspect many listeners (like myself) are not regular TTRPG players. Let them use what ever system works for them! Didn't they start pre stream playing the Vox Machina campaign using Pathfinder? So changing game systems is hardly unprecedented.
If you are a massive D&D fan and are fully invested in that game system, I get why you might be reluctant to see Crit Role change. But for me the system is just a structure to enable shared storytelling. And I trust the folk at Critical Role to keep telling amazing stories.
I’m curious if they change the cast, the system, and the length of episode, what is left from the original format that brought all their viewers in the first place.
I think they’ll be adding separate campaigns, perhaps a 5e long term campaign and new one with maybe daggerheart. They just launched beacon and without additional concurrent content that can draw subscribers, will it be sustainable? I think they’ll continue to add cast members. Perhaps we get one more campaign with the founding cast and begin the transition.
Great video, Luna! I hope you get to the 25K, you deserve it!
About the ending being potentially railroaded: I think Matt has indeed given the players multiple options... But most of them lead to the same place, the gods being gone one way or another. For them to stop Ludinus before he releases Predathos would be a great feat, but also kinda saying "No, and..." to the main theme of the conflict in and out of universe. Even in the best scenario possible I suspect the main pantheon will say "We are so harmful to you that we have agreed to leave. Have fun with the other 90% of supernatural entities that can totally destroy mortal life"
About a potential Marquesian setting book: GODS, I WISH. I've been wanting them to do something like that as part of the 10 year celebration, but so far it seems that we get mostly live shows, which, no offense, as a citizen of a country I know they'll never visit, it's like nothing at all.
About the loose ends of C3: Honestly, I think that specific aspect of the story did have railroading, at some point it was decided they have to focus on the ultimate goal so the secondary quests just... faded.
About their plans between campaigns: I don't know if you noticed, but a week or so ago ALL the episodes of The Re-Slayer's Take were uploaded in CR's TH-cam channel. It is audio only, but the fact that it is now available here too makes me suspect that they will use it as a replacement campaign for the time being. With a weekly episode it is likely they will finish their second season this month, then a short break... And they could release the 3rd season with great announcements, telling the audience to listen to S1 and S2 since they're very short (it is very rare for an episode to even reach 1h). What do you think?
As always like hearing your thoughts. I’ve assumed for some time that they’d individually move on to other things, but as others (maybe even you) have pointed out, they are friends doing a thing together…so maybe they’ll just age gracefully and keep playing. The one real quirk into schedules and such are children, so as the kids age into teens with more time-needed activities, maybe that might impact some at the table?
What’s fascinating to me about C3 is that, despite how few side quests and down time there is, this campaign feels like a slog to get through.
I agree w/ a lot of this...but the cast changes (or at least full changes/dropping casts), because omfg if changing system is a gamble, having the possibility to not see fav cast members in CR is a huge risk!!!!... only lord knows how big the riot outside CR HQ would be if they drop Laura Bailey for example 🤣.
So imo i think what would happen is that MAYBE they'll have more than one campaign running weekly and more than one group at the same time chronologically. With possibly they main campaign and founding cast on thursdays and other groups other days with different DMs like Abbria or Brennan. AND THEN when the narrative calls for it, maybe in the main campaign a founding cast steps down to let a "side" cast shine while they themselves take their place in the secondary campaign's table.
I don't mind the changing casts as much as DMs. I just find the DMs style shapes the whole tone of the game, and there are certain DMs who's style just isn't for me.
What great analysis! No matter what's next of Critical Role brings I'm happy to know you'll be here to share it with us. :)
I have been a critter since day 1 when they started streaming on geek & sundry and the reason I got back into DnD heavily. I am along for the ride whatever they do in the future be it good or bad it's for a reason and I will still be here supporting them.
I agree that C4 is probably Daggerheart but I think the founding cast will be there for the whole campaign.
But I could imagine a side campaign that airs every last thursday (the main campaign's off week) with a totally different cast and GM. This side campaign would serve as an introduction to the new cast of C5 or maybe C5 mixes the new cast and founding cast so C6 (we'll hopefully get there) will be all new cast.
Whether the side campaign is DND or Daggerheart is another question, though I could see that one being DND to draw in new people with the brand recognition, who would then be used to the new cast from the getgo and who might want to check out the main Daggerheart campaign.
My only gripe with C3 (more of this year in the CR side) is the fact that they will switch to daggerheart that imho just doesn't look and seem AS fun as D&D.
i love my dices, i love to use several and diverse dices for different things, using only a few of them is very boring for me ngl.
but again...that's me and my opinion. i'm sure a lot of people love it
A friend of mine, who I do disagree with, waxes poetic about the d20 as if any other polyhedron can't replace it due to the history and experiences people have with it. He started talking about how his kid rolled a crit to save their character and how it wouldn't be the same using a different die. I'm not nearly as attached since I'm tired of systems that are all about slightly modifying a d20 roll.
That's a good reason for you not to play Daggerheart. But if you look deep inside yourself, do you honestly care which of her hundreds of dice Laura Bailey is rolling, or do you care about the tension that comes from the impact of the roll on the story?
I'm not sure I'm getting what you mean. Dnd is 80% of rolling one or two d20 at a time, while doing damages with other types of dices. Daggerheart is 80% of rolling 2d12 and rolling other dices for damages.
granted i dont know as much about daggerheart vs 5e, but it just feels more limited to me in the amount of options there are..
I remember feeling similar when D&D abandoned THAC0. You get used to it.
I think that above even the RP and characters, what really makes CR is the deep friendships we see. Of being invited to sit alongside a group of friends. I have long held that being the core draw of CR, and the potential loss of that in any significant way, is going to be by far the biggest 'risk' possible, and potentialy sound the begining of an unrecoverable decline...which could well be a long very slow one, but nevertheless.
I don’t know that they would definitely quit DnD entirely, but if they do choose to use Daggerheart for C4, I’ll be glad to have the quicker combat with that system, because I get bad combat fatigue from the regular DnD version.
I agree. Campaign 4 will be Daggerheart set in Exandria. They already announced among their 10 year anniversery live shows, that one of the one shots will be daggerheart set in Exandria. So Matt's already adapting Exandria to the changes and new stuff in daggerheart.
Thank you so much for the breakdown, and for keeping it spoilerfree for people like me who havent caught up with campaign 3 yet. Your effort is appreciated❤
I absolutely agree that CR is about the players, characters and stories. :) You won't get the occasional high of "Natural 20!" without D&D, but that's a small sacrifice to make!
totally agree about the time jump. i think this is the perfect finale to wrap up all the cameos and start anew. and you still have the history, and the legacy. it's not like there won't be any easter eggs at all. also some people live foreveeeer (unless they permadie in the next few months. that would be unfortunate lol)
I could absolutely see them shift to couple-month long 'series' campaigns, the way you'd have a streaming platform release multiple different shows with 1 season per year. If slightly longer versions of ExU mini-campaigns became the new norm, it would allow them to use different systems for different series (a D&D series, a Daggerheart one, a Candela one, etc.) which could either be set in Exandria or entirely new worlds. It'd also enable them to bring in new core players and DMs who reappear every year, give them scheduling and production flexibility, give the OGs extended breaks, and then they always have the option to re-start a 'big boy' campaign whenever they were ready. I'm really excited for the future.
I agree. Since seeing those 2025 live show announcements I’ve been pretty sure we will get a shakeup with the cast next year. Maybe having some cast in a new d&d campaign and some doing a daggerheart campaign. That gives Matt a chance to pass the dm torch for critical role and focus on being the face of daggerheart. Though it could also be just some cast taking a step back from the weekly streams so they can focus on other aspects of the company, or their families and health.
Personally I wonder if we see Aabria step into the dm chair for the next main campaign. She is a pretty familiar face now having dm’ed EXU, candela, in C3, played in calamity, and regularly features in their merch. She’s also a seasoned dm and pretty familiar with the world, so however C3 ends I feel she would be comfortable leading a new d&d based long-form campaign. Her dm style is just different to Matt’s so it would take adjusting for the fanbase.
I wouldn't really say there is little time for side quests, it's just that they're weaved more neatly into the main story.
I mean apart from that I don't think there's much to explore in the PCs stories to warrant a side quest.
If you think about it, Ashton's back story was explored throughout the main story as a little side note cuz if you pushed it as it's own separate thing it would derail the urgency of the whole situation.
Chetney's thing is that he becomes a were creature sometimes uncontrollably and that was explored and resolved within (if I remember correctly) a few episodes.
Laudna's thing being the more prevalent side adventure cuz it envilves Delilah f*ckin Briarwood and that's resolved for the time being as of now.
Imogen's story is basically the main story because she happens to be tied to a world changing event. I don't think that was intended tho, I believe it just kinda happened that way.
FCG's backstory and origin was somewhat explored with him reconciling with Dancer, but unfortunately he died before we could explore his ties to Aeor or D. Which in hindsight might have been the plan, to have FCG leave for a bit to explore that on his own while he's getting treated for his throat cancer.
Dorian, Fern and Orym have the entirety of EXU, plus Kymal for Dorian. Orym's backstory is more weaved into the main story as you said and Fern's backstory was explored briefly and was basically resolved.
And Braius is entirely new and is basically a redemption story, any conflict is fully internal and he LITERALLY just talked to the people who ruined his life and gained a new perspective on his own faith. Any and all exploration is just gonna show itself within the episodes like how same did it with FCGs faith.
Bottomline they didn't have much backstory to explore to warrant a fully separate side thing apart from Laudna. I love the way Matt's been doing stuff with weaving it into the main story so you still have the urgency of the situation at hand and still make his players feel like their stories matter.
what they could do is to have a guild at the ready for their new troop - so if anyone wants to step away they can be substituted by guests playing guild partners
Woah, love the thumbnail! (and video, of course)
The Indy live show is supposed to be a Daggerheart one shot set in Exandria so IDK about main campaign but I believe they’re going to use it quite a bit.
I agree with all your predictions! I think they've been subtly preparing the fanbase for change for basically the entirety of Campaign 3, and Campaign 4, if there is still a flagship show in that sense, will continue and ramp up the pace of the change. I get the impression that the main cast is burning out, or at least are preparing for that inevitably, and they understand that they can't keep this pace forever, so the changes are not only for the good of the company, but good for their health. That's full speculation on my part though. I don't know them.
A new system could quite easily make it easier to follow and watch
Case in point: a lot of Dimension 20 series have used tweaked “Kids On…” systems and it really streamlines actions.
I think these predictions are pretty on point. I especially hope/think that the next campaign will be se in the future. Bunch of telepathic aliens moving to exandria (regardless of outcome of campaign 3) could even explain new species popping up (evolution or even driving into the light “hidden” ones)
I think they may split the founding cast into *two* campaigns, one with 5E and one with daggerheart. Then they add in a few new regulars like luis carazo and robbie daymond. Probably Aabria DMs the 5E campaign and Matt takes the DH campaign.
Since Aabria seems to love other systems, especially systems with more roleplay than hard combat, I think she would prefer Daggerheart. It is Matt's baby (along with Spencer) so who knows.
im hoping certain characters from each campaign become new gods
Back when they announced EXU before C3 had been released, I had theorized that they were going to have multiple cast members through out the season, I also theorized that we’d have other campaign members in this story, that all of this was leading to the end of CR using 5e. Here we are several years later, and we are dealing with a world ending god, a god that could shake the pantheon of CR to its core, a world event that could change MAGIC as we know it. If your going to under go a system change in your stories, you need it to make sense, and thus far, I get it and understand. C4 imo will have a few less original cast members, and newer members like Robby. They have built their empire, now they need to run it.
I think that the main campaign for C4 will be a new setting with daggerheart, but the main cast and a new DM, new cast playing 5e will continue in shorter adventures in exandria
I'd be very happy for them to go to a 2 episodes a month schedule (one week on one week off) for the main campaign with lots of other bits in between. I've really enjoyed Worlds Beyond Number with the slower release but with a consistent pace, and it's less disappointing than having a run of three episodes then nothing if that makes sense
2:27 also when they splitted the party I’d say that was a massive cool mix up
Oh yes that too!
My guess is underwater mermaid campaign many years in the future. People underwater probably don't give a rats about existing npcs on the land so that would give it some separation also from past campaigns.
This video is incredibly theory brained and engagement farm feely. I just don't like how businessy this is discussed. What makes Critical Role so fun for me is the cast. Even tho its a show, they are a group of friends. A genuine group of friends, who had incredibly chemistry together from episode 1 of campaign 1. It is not a group of actors, trying to create a show, it's a group of friends doing a show who happen to be amazing actors too. Coming from my DnD friend group's perspective, we can do this until we all die.
I think what changes is more the background stuff. Creating this show is a lot of effort, and outsourcing the background works, helps the cast focus on the game itself, and not burnout from making this show. Yes the cameras are there, but essentially, it's still just an exciting DnD game. I don't really see any of them stepping down, as they all look super invested in all of this.
Ooh, I didn't realize they were coming to Australia! I'll have to try and book a ticket 😮
For context, I started watching CR just after VM wrapped. The first episode I ever caught live was the post campaign Battle Royale. So, late 2017.
I'm fine with either Daggerheart or D&D, but I agree that developing a new system and not using it is crazy.
I think your timeline for the end of BH is spot on. Either by the end of the year or by March. The only question is if they wrap before Daggerheart officially launches, will they fill the gap with one shots in D&D or go ahead and start C4 before Daggerheart officially launches. There's nothing really to keep them from starting 'early', but coordinating it with the launch would probably work better. That is, if they plan to use Daggerheart for C4.
In regards to a time jump, it would set up the emergence of new Ancestries like the Fungril and Ribbets. They evolved over time maybe. Or a location change could help with that as well, as you said.
Lastly, cast-wise... The hardest part of getting into the EXU was new cast members. Having OGs helped A LOT so I agree that they may have to be very careful with bringing in new long term people, but it can obviously be done as evidenced by the love Robbie has received.
Either way, it's getting real and I am HERE for it!
I agree with the cast change hesitancy concern. I remember in episodes 1-3 of C3, people were not happy with Robbie being added in (granted this was the Twitch chat which can get pretty toxic). But when Dorian left with Cyrus, it seemed like the entire Critter community was devastated and were begging to have him become permanent.
Matt Mercer has created a brand new TTPG system, Darrington Press is selling it, there is no way that Matt Mercer is not leading a dagger heart campaign and the cast will step down and not keep playing,
Dagger heart releases in the Spring, they will do some more one shot episodes to push sales of that and then release probably 1-2 expansions to Daggerheart in 2025 (I would not be surprised if an Exandria Daggerheart source book is released).
I think 2025 will be a goodbye to DnD, and by extension a goodbye to the campaign characters, at least in DnD form. Maybe they will port them over to Daggerheart but I can also see Matt saying that campaign 4 starts 500 years in the future and all known characters are dead?
So I expect us to see campaign 4 start at the back end of 2025, fully daggerheart. I also think that Matt Mercer will have either come to an agreement with Wizards to carry on using Wizards material or he intends for Campaign 3 to get rid of the last of the clear wizards IP (the gods) so Daggerheart Exandria is fully free of all Wizards influence.
The show is the main marketing and sales arm for the new TTRPG, so to think they will remain doing DnD, and will change system and cast all at once, is crazy. plus, the players all say they love playing in Matts world.
Unrelated to this video but shoutout to your Gilear plushie ❤
Changes in format wouldn't be the end of the world. I stopped being able to keep up with Campaign 3 for a variety of reasons (real life limitations on time to watch media plus maybe C3 just hasn't felt as addictive to me to help me make the time to watch it).
But in the interim I started watching shows on the Glass Cannon Network. They're shorter in format, and they have a founding cast but they also have many games going on in which that cast is mixed and matched with other folks. So they have a main line campaign, and then they have other campaigns going simultaneously. It works for them, no reason it couldn't work for CR.
I'm really surprised you didn't mention Beacon once. The additional cast & DMs, the new shows - its obviously how they're gauging interest in new material & introducing it to their most devoted fans to get their buy-in first.
My problem with dagger heart is the fact that they are so cute... like sickening cute and it will grow old quickly
I have to admit, I am skeptical that they can achieve the same level of drama we're used to if everyone is playing froggies and mushrooms.
I wouldn't get too influenced by the cutesiness of their Daggerheart streams. It's a flexible system that doesn't have to be cute, but for those streams the cast just wanted to be silly and blow off some steam. I believe they even teased a more dark, Dark Souls-like campaign frame.
Someone hasn't seen the recent monster art that was shown off.
Yeah. I dunno how I can say this without coming off as rude, but there's been a "vibe" since C2 of things becoming a lot...girlier? Not inherently a bad thing, sure, but there's only so much unicorns and cupcakes and neon I can stand before it starts feeling infantilized.
These will not be the characters they'd use for the full campaign for sure
Knowing that the main campaigns are basically their home game, they are likely not going to change for a business decision and change if they feel like it fits them best. One of their live shows is using DaggerHeart for an Exandria game, but because of how the Menagerie has been received, I think they might have two long running games going on side by side. One in a new DaggerHeart world and the other in Exandria.
If they are to switch Exandria to DaggerHeart, I think it would take much longer than the start of C4. I could see them starting with EXU games and then eventually switching, but I don’t think we should be predicting business moves considering that the cast does what they want and what would be most fun for them. Not what gets them the most views.
As well, in that same interview you mentioned, they said that they view the first 3 campaigns as a trilogy, so it is very likely the next campaign will be quite separate. I don’t think it would be 100 years though. Maybe 30 or 50 so that most of Vox Machina are gone or off doing their own thing, while Bell’s Hells could still be around for possible further reference if they do choose.
I also don’t think that they will start their new game right at the 10 year anniversary. Since we don’t know when C3 will end exactly, and according to Matt, no matter what Bell’s Hells do the world will enter a new era, they need A LOT of time to plan what comes next. I think they might do some short EXUs or oneshots between that time to show the immediate aftermath of the campaign and to explore some loose threads if they don’t explore them by the campaigns end (after the solstice they might play a little longer to tie up some quick and easy things and like with the MN final, we will likely get a heads up when we’re nearing the end).
All in all, I am really looking forward to the future of CR. They have expanded so much and there is so much left to explore with in their worlds and beyond. Super hyped!
(Edit: Spelling and Grammar)
Something that I haven't seen mentioned to much is that the Indy live show is set in Exandria using the Daggerheart system. That might be their way of dipping their toes into the water to test out the possibility of C4 using DH
For me, I think of it very similarly! But I have my own slight twists on the theories,
1. I think the campaign will be over by End of January. Campaign 4 announcement will happen on the 10th anniversary, with a twist.
2. There will be two campaigns that will alternate week to week. One will be DM’d by Matt and feature 2 founding members, and 4 non founding members. This campaign will be played with Daggerheart.
The Flagship campaign, the one billed as C4, will feature 3 founding members, and 4 non founding members. This will use 2024 D&D, but feature a new DM.
Both campaigns will take place in Exandria, after the events of C3. And both will feature cross overs with one another from time to time.
3. I think Sam and Travis will be hanging up their hats permanently as players. They will still play one shots, and other minor stories, but their times as main players are over, as they shift more towards the production side full time.
They need to go all in on daggerheart. They also need to conclude the characters and start with new ones.
I would LOVE to see campaign 4 about 500 years in the future. Puts them far enough away to where we can't go back and rely on previous characters (Keyleth) but there are still the occasional references such as statues of some of the recent parties (Vox Machina especially since they were more widely known than M9 and BH), or the vestiges showing up still, etc.
Matt mentioned in an interview years ago they were going to phase in new people and phase out the original people. However, that was years ago, so it seems strange that hasn't started to happen yet. I was surprised when Robbie didn't become the first new add, but I guess he's mostly been in C3, so that's a partial step.
I don't know if it's the best idea to move Exandria into Daggerheart. They have a chance for a 'clean start'. It was stated that for the December show it would be in a 'new setting' within Daggerheart. I was guessing that would be the preview for the world that the (first) Daggerheart campaign would be set in. (But not the characters since I guess those will be random and influenced by the live audience.)
But then they announced the August DH game would be in Exandria. Is that a partial conversion? Just story or lore elements? Just for marketing Daggerheart since people are familiar with Exandria? Or secretly in the works as a campaign book (the first?) they are already working on in secret and hoping to be like, "Surprise, here is the Exandria setting book with 135 new cards which includes 4 new classes, 3 new ancestries, and 3 new communities. It comes out in a month, pre-order now." Because, yes, from a marketing standpoint Exandria in DH makes a lot of sense. Convertign an existing thing to a new system is a lot less work for them. But from a 'this is a new system with all new world settings' it doesn't. And as much as that marketing money is tempting, I don't know, I feel like a 'clean break' and doing all new things sounds like the more appealing choice for a new system.
I wouldn't be completely surprised if S4 became a split thing with S5 where they have now a new cast running alongside the main show, either as always being the '4th week' or splitting 50/50. And that one of those would still be D&D. They have always dodged the question of 'are they dropping D&D' by saying things like "we are using multiple systems." I'd think if D&D were completely out, or even just a much smaller part, they'd say 'we will be primarily focused on our new Daggerheart system,' or 'we will primarily be focused on systems by Darrington Press,' instead of saying what they've been saying.
I totally agree that campaign 4 is 99% likely going to be using daggerheart. They already mentioned one of the live shows is going to be Daggerheart in Exandria.
They also said it was a one shot. So not to sure that fits the narrative.
With the inclusion of growing Becon content, another possibility is running more than one long campaign with staggered scheduling. This could be done with a smaller table on each (5 players instead of 7-8) and provide a bit more spacing between episode filming to allow founding members to engage in other responsibilities. It could also mean a dagger heart campaign and a DnD campaign. It would also help bring in another permanent DM to give Matt some space too. My guess was that the scheduling with Candella content may have been a test run for scheduling viability. That's my half baked prediction at least.
Before C3 started I saw something, and I don't remember what exactly it was, but my immediate reaction was 'Talesien will be the first to step away'. That's a feeling that's only got stronger as C4 has moved along.
Mind you, I also think it's possible given his recent surgery that Sam may decide this is a thing he needs to step away from, but my money is still on Talesien.
Either way, change is inevitable (except from vending machines) and CR has done their best to build solid foundations. I do think any handover to a non-Matt DM for a main campaign would have to be handled very carefully, moreso than swapping out a player for a new person, but even that is manageable. Between Aabria and Brennan and Liam and Ashley and Marisha,, they've demonstrated that people can and will watch CR content if Matt isn't in the drivers seat, but I think it would simply be a bigger pill to swallow.
I'm going to keep watching one way or the other, until it stops being fun. As long as it's fun, I'll keep watching. it's really that simple for me, and I really hope you keep doing the recaps and the like, because I enjoy them too.
I really enjoy Critical Role, but I’ve found it hard to fully dive in because the campaigns are just so long. As a father, a husband, someone with a full-time job, and friends to spend time with, the idea of committing to three years for a single campaign feels overwhelming-and, honestly, a bit exhausting.
I absolutely loved Calamity; it was incredible-one of the best stories I’ve ever experienced, whether in books, TV, or live play. The limited, self-contained nature made it exciting, and the storytelling was nearly perfect.
My wife and I also started watching The Mighty Nein. We enjoyed a lot about it, but it was too long to stay fully engaged. Some of the story elements also felt a bit too explicit and dark for our taste, so we ended up stepping away around episode 18. On top of that, the show often brought in too many political agendas, which I don't necessarily mind in art sometimes, but it often felt heavy-handed and distracted from the story.
I personally think they will keep their main show OR RATHER the show we know, as dnd long format. Yes CR is build largely on the personalities and the stories, but i think underestimating the impact of 5e had on the popularity would be a mistake. 5e is what 90% of their audience plays and all though many might watch no matter what system they play but its gonna create a disconnect when its not the same system. Also at the time C4 would start daggerheart has been out like a month, so trusting that system to sustain popularity for a long running campaign without any real testing is a gamble and half
IMO the best way forward for C4 would be staying in dnd but having a second show with a brand new cast (maybe with people we already know and love) playing Daggerheart. I think Daggerheart is way more suited to shorter campaigns, so having maybe 2 or 3 daggerheart campaigns per year while a long running dnd game is going would be awesome.
If lets say they do Daggerheart as their own main show i fear the system is gonna be (excuse a gross term) somewhat inbred. We already have the Matt Mercer effect and now its gonna be the Matt Mercer effect, with a game Matt (and spencer) made, played every week by Matt.
Putting new people front and center to promote their new game on a similar scale of the show we know, would not only allow for them to introduce new people that the audience can get familiar with before, like you say, the main cast inevitably wanna step back at some point. But also show that they believe in the system more than just their brand and main cast.
Matt said in a recent interview that they will always include DnD but they do want to incorporate their own systems. I don’t believe they are doing the main campaign via Daggerhart.
I think season 4 will be Daggerheart...just makes sense. I also am leaning toward the idea we will get another calamity, or something like it will happen to aid the transition. Ruidus will either be destroyed and it's inhabitance be moved to Exandria, or it will be somehow absorbed by Exandria...Myceit (fungus) race on Ruidus will become the Fungril. I mean, you have a moon sized mass orbiting a planet that is then halted...what happens when the bridge is destroyed...does it continue it's orbit? Does it get destroyed? Does it get drawn by planets gravity?...I don't see Exandria getting out of this unscathed.
My predictions: Current campaign ends before Christmas. New campaign starts in late Jan or February. C4 uses Daggerheart rules and a completely new setting. At least one permanent cast member change: one OG leaves and is replaced by Robbie, Aabria, or someone else.
I'll keep watching even if there are big changes.
I'm excited about seeing Daggerheart in action!
I'll watch pretty much everything which contains my faves out of the cast having fun/being engaged. Personally I would love more one-shots and miniseries, Everything Is Content, and more roundtables, especially something aimed at new GMs. I don't really care if there is one single main campaign with all the founding cast, and I barely care which system they use; genre and tone is slightly more important. As a general principle, even when I dislike some of the results, I support experiments in both form and content. I like the D20 "crossovers" and welcome more cooperation with other APs even if that adds to my already immortality-requiring To Watch list...
My comfort shows/episodes happily aren't going anywhere, because I will continue to rewatch them! Getting NEW favorite content once in a while is a nice bonus.
Actually, fairly early on, we had something that I don't recall having happened before... a guest character playing someone who was thoroughly antagonistic to the party. Since I haven't seen the character sheet (and I know Critical Role tends to not go strictly on alignment anyways), I'm unsure if the guest character was actually EVIL, but their actions were clearly in direct opposition to the party and they were extremely antagonistic. As far as I can recall, none of the guest characters in c2 were evil and I can only remember 1 in c1 who was (maybe) evil, though it's been a long time since I've listened to that portion of the campaign.
One thing I'd love to see is a dual story campaign, alternating weeks. Maybe Matt could DM one group for Liam, Sam, Marisha and Ashley, while Taliesin, Robbie, Laura, Travis (and maybe someone new) could play a separate story, under the same overarching time frame, with opportunities for some crossovers between the two groups, depending on schedules and where stories lead. Not set on those groups, of course, just picking somewhat arbitrarily as an example!
I'd be down to watch any system, but I'd like to see the same/mostly the same main cast members. It's been really hard for me to get into some of the off-shoots, like ExU (Downfall was the only ExU stuff I actually got through, which was greatly aided by Taliesin, Laura and Ashley being in the cast), due to having a different cast that I just don't really vibe with. I think for me to be able to get into watching it easily, it would have to include at least 50% current cast member (Matt, Travis, Laura, Marisha, Sam, Liam, Taliesin, Ashley, Robbie).
I'd also very, very much love for Robbie to stay on as a long-term cast member, if his schedule allows. I think he brings such a unique dynamic to the group. Though it took me awhile to warm up to him (and Dorian), I really felt the table dynamic shift when he was gone and then we got to see him again and that was such a happy day!
I stopped watching c3 a couple months ago, it just drags on so much. 50+ episodes on the exact same storyline is far, far too long.
LoVM is a pretty good way to catch up in relatively short order, and it looks like they'll be giving the MN the same treatment. Once those are both released, jumping in to C3 would be considerably easier
Good point.
I think we will get Campaign 4 around the time we get all the books for the 2024 rule set and that they’ll want to run a campaign with the new rule set
The thing with critical role is, despite all the other shows and things, the show is Matthew and the cast, the moment they step back people will find less reason to watch the show, me included, it’s just the bitter truth
I stumbled on this, snd im noy a CR viewer... And yet everything you said made good sense. Solid analysis
it is true that there is a TON of video to watch. I cannot bring myself to do it! So I am often lost when everyone is freaking out.
If I could have one wish about CR, it is this: If they did make a video game based on any campaign or Exandria in general, I want Larian Studios to make it.
That would be the absolute dream 🙌
I think them having different DMs for different campaigns with different tones would be great.
Like Matt having the classic fantasy campaign like Vox machina. Talison could run a Gothic campaign like a Castlevania or more energy version of their Candice obscura games. A sci-fi starfinder style campaign and so on.
Man this video has me thinking a bunch. In all honesty, I think what makes Critical Role so engaging for me is that it has always felt like friends hanging out before feeling like a show. If the future "cast members" they bring in can keep that energy, which I highly doubt they can recreate naturally, I might bring myself to like a cast switch. I do think if they are going to switch cast members for a "main campaign," then it would have to be an all in switch. They can keep Matt DM'ing, but I think it would be smoother with an entire switch of the table.
Speaking of the end of C3, I think Exandria will face another calamity that reshapes history into the world of Daggerheart. I don't see a world in where Campaign three ends in a "good" light. The situation they are in is a two-sided attack on the people of Exandria. I'll make a prediction now so I can come back and laugh at myself if I'm wrong. One of the Ruidis-born in the party takes in Predathos and serves as his vessel after barely triumphing over Ludinus' side. The god's are going to witness Predathos taking over that person and some inner quarrel of power will go on between the Vessel and Predathos. The god's decide to pull the plug, even if the Vessel wins control, and start laying waste to everything. Giant battle ensues. Glorious.
It's smart to change from Dnd anyway given the new 2024 edition changes and, ESPECIALLY with how Wizards of the Coast continue their path to try and make DnD something they can add microtransactions to. Firing and laying off so many of the DnD staff, including the person who single-handedly saved their reputations the last time they had a major scandal... choosing to go with AI for their upcoming projects... Just watching some of the DnD news TH-camrs having to announce new things every other week is depressing.
Luckily, Critical Role is going to run a full Daggerheart game set in Exandria with the cast. They already showed how easy it was to make Bertrand Bell as a character with Travis during the open beta. I want to see the hope and luck dice and open initiative in a setting we all know and love. It's going to be so good!
I definitely don’t think ending C3 in 2024 is remotely possible. 6 episodes with 3 different battles would leave a deeply unsatisfying conclusion for the BH characters, which, despite the complaints and controversy, the cast love playing. I could see this one running til the end of February and the time up to and after the anniversary being the wrap-up and then some ExU miniseries with guests. I also predict C4 wouldn’t start til at least after the Australia live shows, they’re gettin’ older, the break between campaigns might be a bit longer. I also kind of just want Daggerheart to be its own thing? If they make their flagship show permanently Daggerheart, the community will start to see Exandria as ‘the official Daggerheart setting’. And it would inevitably hamper the core intent of the system, to build a setting collaboratively. Exandria is already deeply established. And running one-shots with it is a fun change, but might not be what they want for their new system, which isn’t inherently connected to Exandria at all.