How I fixed my Fuel Burning Heater (FBH) Freelander 1 TD4 Webasto Top C
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- Got a Fuel Burning Heater? A lot of diesels cars do, like this Freelander 1 TD4, they are also used as night heaters on trucks. Sometimes they are called auxiliary heaters. My unit wasn’t coming on. A reset by pulling the fuse made it try to light but it didn’t ignite. It’s a Webasto ‘Thermo Top C’ unit.
This video shows dismantling the heater testing the parts. After a few false starts I finally got it to fire up reliably all the time, first time and every time. The trick was not just resets of the unit but priming it with fuel and forcing the glow plug to light which seemed to do the trick. That was after all the carbon bunk had been cleaned out as well. You can get the Webasto PC software (for free) but you need the right interface hardware in order to properly software interrogate the unit. Without that this is the story of how I managed to get mine working.
You will also see how you could force the unit to operate without the ignition being on. Eventually I’ll wire the cable I attached to a wireless controller in order to preheat the car in the mornings before getting in, but that’s another project for the future.
To remove the bumper to get to the heater, watch this video:
• How to Clean the Inter...
Useful things you will need:
Torx bit set on Amazon Uk: amzn.to/2U3ucdJ
A 3/8” drive socket set is useful, consider some from
Amazon UK: amzn.to/2K9aa1L
Or Amazon USA: amzn.to/2YROo5F
Rubber disposible gloves are also useful, here's the links for
eBay USA: ebay.us/GGqmTJ
eBay UK: ebay.us/cE1BHK
Amazon UK: amzn.to/3aikbl8
Amazon USA: amzn.to/3cdwjpD
Amazon Canada: amzn.to/2Q0VHZm
Amazon Australia: amzn.to/2QlUawX
For other Freelander related videos, see this playlist:
www.youtube.co....
Videos of fixes on this Freelander TD4 so far:
Rear window fix: • How to Fix Freelander ...
Crankcase filter upgrade to cut smoke: • Freelander TD4 - M47 c...
Changing the LP fuel pump and fuel filter: • How to Change the Fuel...
Fixing air leaks on corroded alloys: • How to fix an Air Leak...
How to clean the intercooler to cut smoke: • How to Clean the Inter...
Fixing the fuel burning heater (aux heater): • How I fixed my Fuel Bu...
Fixing the clutch, low bite point: • Low Clutch Bite Point?...
Fixing the HP fuel pump regulator: • Fixing the HP Fuel Reg...
Fixing electric window cable, done on this car, video was on another: • How to Fix an Electric...
Other Freelander videos of mine that may also be useful:
Fitting a low coolant alarm: • How to Fit a LOW COOLA...
Fixing the SRS warning light:
• SRS Light On? This May...
Making the petrol k-series engine reliable: • K series - How to Make...
How to fix & monitor VIS motors on the 2.5 V6 engine: • How to Fix VIS Motors ...
Starter motor fix (generic Bosch): • How to Fix a Starter M...
Fixing a torn car seat (generic): • How to Fix a Torn Car ...
Clutch slave cylinder fix on petrol k-series cars: • How to Improve the Clu...
How to fix the rear electric window: • How to Fix an Electric...
How to change the 2.6 V6 (KV6) engine cambelts, cheaply! - • How to Change the Camb...
If anyone wants to show appreciation for any money savings, use this link:
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If you still can’t get the FBH working despite trying all the suggestions in the video, I came across a guy that offers reasonable cost repair to them. I didn’t use him personally, I just had some quotes which seemed fair. He is at www.webastorepairs.co.uk
The video is about my personal opinion and experience and contains no paid for product placements. No responsibility is accepted for any perceived recommendation for or against a product or feature nor any consequential damage or harm since this video is just my personal experience. You accept by watching this video that you accept any responsibility for any subsequent actions or decisions that you take.
Note on copyright / licensing: This video was created using Apple iMovie and as such any music or video content is fully licensed by their terms and conditions for free publication and distribution. Additional background music free used royalty and copyright free (no copyright songs) from the following source: Beyond -whitesand: • Beautiful Cinematic Mu...
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This has been a great video, I have watched a few of your freelander videos and they are informative and precise.
I really appreciate the time you’ve taken to make edit and present this series and share your knowledge.
I must say, you know your way around a freelander, hopefully I won’t need all the info, but knowing the freelander I can be sure I’ll be turning to you channel again.
Thanks
Ash 🏴
Very kind of you.Thanks.
Great video. My daughters TD4 caused mayhem in a local town when she parked it up not long after we purchased it. The heater started after she had left the car and two minutes later there was a fair amount of smoke coming out of the heater exhaust(front left corner) To the ‘unknowing’ it’s looked like a car fire… anyhoo someone luckily nearby had owned one with a heater and allayed everyone’s fears. My daughter returned 5 minutes later and noticed a commotion at her car. This was during the summer so obviously something was amiss with the heater so the chap ‘in the know’ removed the fuze for her so it didn’t happen again. It’s still not had the fuel replaced it’s ‘on a list’ etc
Fuze replaced… even!
Thanks. Yes they can smoke a bit on old ones. It is usually when they turn off and cool down but the fan keeps running for a while.
Fantastic! Thanks for taking the time do make this video as my FBH has been dead for a while!
Good luck with yours. Let us know how it goes.
Thanks for the help videos. my heater was working ok but I suspect it stayed on far too long, then became temperamental and stopped. I was going to investigate the in front of radiator thermo switch but never did.. But I have purchased some 12 volt electric switches to use in pre heating - hopefully. IF I`m well enough I will try to follow your help tips. But at 72 years of age sometimes It gets hard to do things. I have already purchased a lot of extra service Items like EGR delete, already done the cheap 88 degree thermostat job, and today got a window mechanism repair kit in the post. so slowly getting there. thank you anyway. - OH one tip for you maybe, on my HSE model the rear under floor bass box crackled like crazy, until my son cut the plug and socket of in the under floor connection and solder jointed the wires together correctly, then insulating them - works perfectly now.
Thanks for the feedback and useful tip. Good luck with your car.
I think one of the steps you missed, and why it started up outside the car, was setting the Air to fuel ratio (which ideally you need to do with a CO/combustion efficiency sensor tool)
If you google around you will find a service manual that explains what I am about to explain in other words:
The combustion assembly has an adjustment at the bottom where the fuel comes in. This adjustment changes how much air gets into the chamber near the flame, which adjusts the air to fuel ratio. Yours may be off either because this adjustment is off, or because some carbon built up in places that affected the air flow. You saw the heater start up fine outside of the car because of the additional access to oxygen above the diffuser at first. What you did during this was actually burn out enough of the carbon to restore the air flow through the pilot holes to get it to start up as it was designed :-) The glow plug stopped lighting off at some points because it was still hot/in shutdown mode despite your reset (it measures the resistance of the plug as a flame sensor, which is also why it pulses it, to do the readings!) . Your repeated attempts at making sure the unit works was actually helping to soak remain carbon with enough fuel to get the ratio correct in some of the air currents goign through the diffuser --- enabling more reliable startup towards the end. This is also why it smokes when you shut it down -- the flame is not ideal due to air fuel ratio especially at that stage when fuel is shut off and fan slows down.
Next time I would say try to soak the entire combustion assembly in any type of solvent to clean the carbon. I wouldnt hesitate to use carb cleaner all over this. Or a few days soak in kerosene with frequent agitation. I do know the little metal sponge at the end can be purchased separately, but my thermo top evo is fully welded and I cant seem to get into it should I need to replace it. The whole combustor can be purchased too however. All of this would have been more apparent to you if you had that Webasto diag software and cable. It shows each stage the machine goes through and all the values of it's sensors and outputs like fan speed and pulse width of the pump.
I hope this info helps you!! and anyone else using these cool little furnaces. I am adapting one here in the USA to heat a portable hot tub using gasoline, which is now the cheapest fuel around!!
Thanks for your input. Useful contribution. I didn’t find and can’t see in the video anything adjustable on the fuel supply or burner.
I checked the manual www.butlertechnik.com/downloads/Webasto_Heater_Thermo_Top_C_Workshop_Manual_(2).pdf
And the CO2 level seems to be set by software via their plug in module, which I didn’t have. That would have been nice to have and a CO2 measuring kit.
Also like you found the gauze couldn’t be taken out as the burner case is welded and good cleaning of it is needed.
I assume the CO2 level is setup in software by it adjusting the balance between fuel pump rate and fan speed.
Carbon build up was the issue stopping burning and clearing this out is key. There’s were 4 vent holes that also had to be cleaned.
Thanks for your input and good luck with yours. Would solar water heating be any good for your hot tub?
Brilliant just seen your channel. Ive got a TD4 HSE 2004 Auto - had it from new and its done 186K. Ive spent a lot keeping it going over the years (It'll be a classic one day :) and the FBH wasn't working. I tried the fuse fix and it worked. Great channel - thanks!
Thanks, glad you like it!
Hi, I have a TD4 SE SW 2004 face lift manual with this preheater, so if it ever goes wrong this vid will be very helpful, many thanks .
Great tutorial really enjoying your freelander content you’re helping a lot of people
Cheers
A replacement wire mesh and glow plug clean gets these going everytime...I service mine on my boat every year, takes about ten minutes
Excellent! I've got two dead ones that I'm going to take apart and see if I can get them going again! Thanks!
Cheers
Thanks for a sensible & logical video, good to view it.
Thanks
Cheers mate! This video is awesome. Thank you for your time!
Thanks!
Just watched this video it was brilliant 👍. My fbh has always worked but for some reason now and again only this winter it starts up well the fan does then I guess fails to ignite. Hope it's not going to be too expensive to fix !! Anyway Going to have a look at the fuel pump first and definitely going to wire up a switch inside 👍.
Thanks, good luck with yours.
@@comeinhandynow just a question what size plastic pipe did you use to link the water hoses together ? Many thanks. Ross.
I don’t remember exactly. Probably a bit of 15mm copper plumbing pipe to join the rubber hoses together. It’s useful to collect rubber hoses and bits of pipe for spares when you change them or do other jobs, so you can then try various sizes. Usually connections like this are 16mm heater hose rubber pipe, like amzn.to/36H2ryZ
So 15 mm standard plumbing copper pipe should be ok to join them. You will need to measure the pipe diameter to be 100% sure.
Brilliant thanks for your reply on that. Just another question on powering up the fbh is it just 1 wire green/grey you need to tap into with a positive or two wires one green and one grey ? Sorry daft question but just want to be sure 👍. Thanks again for all your help.
Just seen at 9:10 it's just the single wire green/grey pin 3 you say so no worries. Being a plonker. Thanks 👍.
Great video very informative having trouble with the fbh on my 2011 Range Rover so will attempt to have a look at mine . my fbh runs for a couple of mins then shuts down has you say the glowplug takes loads of power , so it could also be my battery has it drops below 12 volts after car is switched off Thanks for the info
Thanks and good luck.
th-cam.com/video/Y9zx70Eeccs/w-d-xo.html
I convert these heaters for pool applications I have one to heat my 18ft pool and hot tub amazing things
My tdv8 vogue has one too I can set from phone where ever I am
My Webasto Thermo Top C that is on my BMW e61 is working for the past couple of days but now i just hear a fan but not igniting. Thats why i just remove the fuse because its draining my battery. But i will try the same procedure like you did.
Good luck. Some patience is needed.
I know this is an old video, but I feel I have to share this - using diagnostic software would definately help you and avoid hotwiring, playing with fuse and transistor.
I come from an Audi world where diag software is easily accessible and cheap, so I am biased.
But you can read fault codes, change coding, run tests and even some adaptations.
Maybe this would have helped you too.
Yes possibly. If you have suggestions for software/hardware cheap enough for the DIYer please post some links.
I have a wireless controller maybe bluetooth and really interested in getting a preheat project drawn-up and implemented - You have sparked my interest - great vid - hope u can work with me on this - cheers
You can get gps & mobile car alarm modules that also have a relay switch output, the last time I looked on ebay. I would have used one of those. I have sold that car now though.
I can start mine on my Range Rover from the land rover app on my phone nice to get into a hot car in a frosty morning
@@gerryr1893 Nice
Hello. Thank you for you videos they helped me a lot. My FBH works but at any ambient temp. maybe its the sensor. Where is it located? its the one behind the front bumper on the left? I cant find any on eBay. Many Thanks
I believe it is that location. You could put in a switch to cut the power to the FBH to stop it if all else fails.
I have a feeling that you have problem with one of your resistors, (N: 4751) (total of 2 ) on the right side from your transistor, let me guess, its working all fine till you start the car, and after on a second attempt (if you have a remote) it will not work, only combustion fan work for several min (on 100%) and eventually lockdown on the unit, with error code (glow plug short circuit to ground). Just change the roasted resistor/s ( 1560 ohms / avg) and you will have a working heater. :) I hope this information was helpful.
Thanks for your input. Something maybe useful to some. On my unit it didn't have that symptom and eventually it worked fine every time after doing everything in the video.
It will be glow pin
Very good and useful video !
Thanks
Very helpfull video, my wife has a 2004 BMW E53 X5 Diesel and her heater causes a short somewhere which killed her battery, the garage disconnected it, fitted new battery and all ok. What could be the problem and can this be left disconnected or will it affect anything on the car if never fixed?
thanks in advance
It is not that much of a problem to leave it disconnected, but the car will be very slow to warm up so your cabin temperature will be less.
great stuff...am gonna try getting a manual control for mine...🤔
Any joy with the remote control option? I hear there's a mythical cabin remote unit, never found one yet though maybe someone knows a workaround or hack to make use of the FBH with engine off? I spend time on my rounds waiting in the car in the cold, adding another heater seems silly!
th-cam.com/video/uFjV6FST8Hw/w-d-xo.html
Excellent video, thank you! Quick question; when you're removing the fuse, is this with ignition on or off?
Thanks. Either on or off.
Hi,
This is an excellent video, I do have a question though; What size plumbing pipe did you use to connect the coolant hoses?
Thanks!
Thanks. Heater hose is often 16mm, but I can’t guarantee it’s that.
@@comeinhandynow So the pipe you used to connect the two coolant pipes was 16mm ish or the coolant pipes were 16mm ish?
@@Crash_Low The coolant pipes are probably 16mm internal diameter, so a joining pipe using 15mm plumbing pipe plus 2 olive rings on the ends would do as a joiner. Probably.
@@comeinhandynow Thanks alot you're a star!
Hi, I noticed after you had reassembled everything you had a grey wire at the battery to force the system on,
Have you put a bypass switch in the cabin?
If so could you advise us or even better make a video on how to do this.
My FBH seems to come on some days and other days it’s on strike even at cold temperatures.
Thanks again.
Ash 🏴
I was going to wire up that extra grey wire I put on so I could have a switch in the cabin, or better still wire it up to one of those remote alarm type (mobile phone based) modules that had a relay output that would then allow you to turn on the car heating remotely, just like in expensive cars like Tesla’s. I never got around to it though.
To wire it to a cabin switch you would put on the extra wire like the grey one (see video) and route that into the cabin, with the other side of the switch going to a permanent 12v supply (look for one in the fuse box)
comeinhandynow
Thanks for your reply,
Would I need to disconnect /remove the sensor behind the front grill?
I think it’s called the outside temperature sensor.
Winter is coming and I’m eager to see to this before then🥶
Thanks for this video it’s been a great help.
Ash from 🏴
No
Hello. Once again THANK YOU FOR YOUR VIDEOS. As you know mine works everytime....no matter what temp. But it also makes a different thing. When it turns on it owls ,,very strange its scares the crap out of people...any reason? yours is so silent.
Thank you
Thanks. Maybe the fan bearing is worn, or it’s clogged with carbon.
do you mean the whistling before it starts burning? That's the power to the glow plug being turned on and off rapidly to give it a nominal average voltage (say 9V) regardless of whatever the battery voltage is (10 to 15V).
It's known as pulse width modulation (PWM).
The pulses increase in width gradually to control the rate the glow plug heats up, presumably to make it last longer.
The blower is also controlled in the same manner but I believe the coolant pump is a simple on/off.
hi on my sharan, it doesn't work webasto, when i tested it it reports bugs; 01410, 02251. Do you know what would be wrong with that. thanks for the reply. a beautiful day
Any idea what could cause a flame monitoring fault on Skoda Octavia 2 facelift? VCDS shows like 6-8% flame monitoring value before it shuts off and blocks the heater module, so my guess is that it sees glow plug turning red, but no actual combustion? It is a gasoline car, so I'm not sure how likely it is that it gunked up, any ideas before I have to disassemble most of the car's front?
I can only guess that it’s gunked (carbon’ed) up.
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i have a discovery sport 2016 plate. getting a very strong smell of gas(not diesel.more of a liquid gas smell) in the cabin now and again. A/C seems ok so ruled out this but have read it could be the fbh, could this generate a gas smell?
The exhaust for it is by the front left corner, so it could be a burnt diesel smell if it is running and working. Often they smoke a bit as well.
Hi there!
ive got a Webasto diesel heater in my Peugeot 407 2007.
All of a sudden its dead, the only thing thats working is the fan, no ticking from the pump at all.
Ive tried to reset using the fuses but no result...what would you say is the problem?
Thx
Sounds similar to my experience with the one in this video. Try going through the same procedures as in the video. Good luck.
Hi I know this video was made some time ago but can I ask my burner is working but puts out a fuel smell as you said bit can be very smoky as well for some time , is this right . Regards
Yep when they are carbonised up and when starting up they can be smokey.
@@comeinhandynow thanks for the reply
Good day sir
I am wondering if you might be able to help me out with an issue I am having with the same heater. It seems to function normally without any faults. The problem I am having is lack of hot coolant. It will run for 10 hrs and still only produce about 18degrees c out of the heater. I’ve cleaned up the burner and made sure the coolant circulation pump is functioning but still nothing. It seems like it’s not combusting as hot as it should? I hope you might be able to help me out! Thanks.
Take it apart so you can see the combustion chamber and then fire it up. It should get really hot quickly. See if you can tell what the problem is. Maybe an air lock in the coolant pipes or a lot of carbon blocking the combustion chamber gauze.
Yes I had it apart and cleared quite a bit of carbon from the gauze and chamber. Some of the combustion air holes were completely clogged. Fit it back together and it fires just the same as it did. Yes I’ve been trying to figure if it is actually an air lock in the system. Do you not think it would shut down from overheating if there was in fact an airlock?
My webasto work non stop with start car ? Why ?
maybe your heater control wire is turned to hot all time...check connection
@@wanderingbox7971 maybe outside temp sensor ?
Yes maybe, it’s that one on the front bumper. Another useful mod would be to have a switch to turn it off by interrupting that wire.
@@comeinhandynow yes. Thanks man
how does that water heater is able to heat cabin of the car?
It has a water pump that heats and pumps the hot water through the engine and the heater matrix for the cabin air. To be efficient at heating the cabin you would also need to turn on the fan blower.
I'm guessing your grey wire was spliced into the green/grey wire as a manual start?
Yep, at 0:52
*How to make switch to disable webasto with start a car ?*
Interrupt the power feed to it with a switch...
Hi there, how do you get this switched off,
Disconnect power
@@comeinhandynow , I guess it's that same fuse you pull out at 1.45? , only want to turn mine off as it's not cold in the UK enough to have this and it never shuts off for as long as you drive, burning my fuel away when the engine gets warm anyway after 20mins
@@danpullin6610 yes correct.