Yup i remember playing similar maps before 2010, the units werent always sent horizontally, some maps were vertical. The rest was pretty much the same. Rarely did they include heroes to the roster, though. So Direct Strike is like more finalized product of them all, I guess.
Holy moly, i was blamed during the game, my response was "i'm so sorry being a noob, definitely my fault..." seems to be worked, guys shut up, especially when i added, can you explain where i can get experience beyond actually playing the game? UPD: i'm 38 and i'm in a huge nostalgia about days with no responsibilities >_
I'm almost 30 and that's what hurts the most about any sort of competitive style game. People used to winning just can't handle copping a couple on the chin because new people are coming in. I sometimes get frustrated playing games with new people, but the feeling of teaching them how to do things better is a much better feeling than winning a game. Much healthier to just chuckle at the mistakes they make (Most likely you've made them at some point in the past, so it's just relatable) and then go "Hey bud, I know how this ends, you may not like it xD"
There is a tutorial guide on the DS Discord. However it is very long and tedious to read through. Not even I or the other top 1% players have read it completely (I mean, I cant speak for everyone, but I didnt read it all, and most people I know didnt either) Actually, this is a really good suggestion. If Grubby is up for it, we could work together on this. I am just a random dude, with no certain voice in the community, but I could hit up some people. My clan is home to some of the top 10 players of this community.
Just like when he start dota, a lot of legends, active proplayers,…. eager to show him parts of the game. Grubby still have time to play and learn and try everything he want but he also has chance to improve a lot quicker. Through the stream, his viewers also can learn more and more. If the trouble is just knowledge different, then there is no reason to work together.
@@Pixelbuddha_ It also isn't a good guide and doesn't provide any sort of distinctive instructions or synergy examples. It fundamentally says "every unit is good" which is just objectively incorrect
The irony is these people matching up with new players are actually not good players. The actual good players are significantly higher ELO and very rarely get matched up with them. It's like the average shitter down your local chess club starts complaining about new players but they're like 1200 FIDE.
Is this map an exclusive club for the ~800 people pre-Grub or what? Gatekeeping rather than initiating new players is how your game will stagnate you know. That said, I like to watch Grubby's growth while taking on new things, and it's interesting seeing a melee veteran's takes (biases and all) on this map. Next I'd love to see Grubby do away with his OCD and experiment with asymmetric positions, like forcing ranged units to focus fire on one side and such.
I've been playing this mode since the begining, but just time to time, i was like lvl 30-40. I do about a few games per week and i don't think it's a bad thing that you ve introduced new players to that game mode, why would it be ? I love when the game i play gets more views. I discovered Mechabellum through you and i'm glad I did buy that, i wish more people would play Mechabellum.
Im getting addicted to this mode. But my experience is way to good, al the ppl dont blame each other, and everyone is trying ro figure the Best strategy. Of course some of them are way too clunky, but the mode is so short yet so fun that it doesnt matter. Thanks for showing this!
25 วันที่ผ่านมา +7
i am a 31 old grubling trying to hold on to my youth memories by playing direct strike
People who complain about newbie are also toxic generally against those player. Instead of giving them tip to improve, they will rage at them and make their game worse.
I play Direct Strike 3v3 Commanders in SC2 because WC3 is still broken on Mac for weeks, and I can confirm that when I started playing I got a lot of toxic messages from teammates/opponents who couldn't believe I was a new player learning 😂
people whining about getting games with people who are new & bad at the game is a self-report that they are the same skill level as a new & bad player and are frustrated with their own lack of skill, but don't contain the emotional intelligence to identify that the problem they are having is internal, not external, which is also probably why they are still at a skill level on par with new players lol
The Warcraft III custom scene isn't generally open to new players because the established playerbase has no actual hope for the game's longevity, despite its proven longevity. Their scene has effectively been dying for over a decade. The remaining participants are inflexible and beholden to their established ways. Some of these dedicated people have been playing the same custom map for over 15 years, sometimes with the same people, who all know the whole catalogue of the map's bugs, functions and features. They weild precise knowledge of the optimal way to play the game, including all the exploits and imbalances. In 90% of their games, the custom player is playing with other players that are equally entrenched in the game as they are. Suddenly, when this stops being the case and new people flood in, the familiar and comforting experience that the custom player is used to is challenged. This is why new players are seen as a threat rather than an opportunity. People don't want the game to grow because they have resigned already to the fact that it will die; instead, they want the game to provide a consistent experience until that unavoidable doomsday does arrive.
I feel like if people are stuck in 1500s, maybe they deserve to be 1500. Which... Means if they want to not play with newbies... Climbing is a really good option.
11:00 As a person who has recently experienced a lot of frustration with new player influx in the ranked mode of a different game, I can fully get behind the statement of "you should learn the game before jumping into ranked matches", UNLESS W3Champions doesn't have an "Unranked" mode (i.e. there is only one way to get into a game). Sniping the streamer is all fun and games until you don't and get in a game with people who expect a certain level of performance from their teammate and you just don't have the game sense necessary to perform at that level, leading to frustration and toxicity.
I can totally understand that no one want his daily routine to get "disturbed", so getting suddenly matched against completly new audience (noobs, veterans) in a very niche mode can cause that "feeling". But there is no other way around to introduce new players to the game. So just be patient, let the community get bigger first, and the skill level get flattened later (in a month or something everyone catch up in level with a better matchmaking potentia because of a bigger player base). Its a win win situation that need some patience, thats it.
Stuff like this is why I stopped playing competitive games years ago. Way too many tryhardy/sweaty people worrying about what is meant to be just a game with the ultimate objective of *gasps* fun.
This might blow your mind, but people have fun winning. Playing to win is fun for them, you are not the higher authority on what is fun for people other than yourself.
This might blow your mind, but I did not claim to be the "higher authority" on anything, I am not repressing you or anyone else lol But... this video does deal with others actively causing people to have less fun... I would worry about them and not me, since that approach is detrimental to the very community that they are a part of : )
@@missingdays1 Problem is that it's a team game, and when you perceive that your random teammates are ruining the game for you, that's frustrating. That's always a problem for competitive players in team games. Still, the idea that Grubby has "ruined" the game mode is kind of silly.
@@saalok but you kind of imply that you're a "higher authority" when you claim that "having fun" is the ultimate objective of the game, and that being sweaty/try hard is detrimental. In anything in life where competition can be made, some people will try to climb to the top of that competition even in the context of perhaps the silliest things. It's going to happen. So I think you're wrong to try to claim that we all should aim for simply a more casual outlook, even if it's for a mere simple game. Don't get me wrong, this doesn't mean I agree with them blaming grubby for anything. I think they're wrong about that.
This is the main issue with many a WC3 custom game; their meta or optimal playstyle is so set that if you havent been playing for continuously for years you end up “ruining” others’ game
I appreciate what you’re doing for the little guy lol! I started playing last week and I tend to just ignore the flamers who all chat and whine. But I also played a game last night with some newer players like me on my team and we all had a great time, we were chatting and working together and it was probably the most fun I’ve had in a team based multiplayer game in a very long time. Thanks for showing people the game, Grubby!
I ran into so many people who took your word as gospel, but they didn't understand the fundamentals of the game, i'll teach or give advice then they would say "but grubby said this"
I got into direct strike because of you grubby but i never watched any of your tutorials or gameplay of it since I know you were experimenting and just as new to me to the mode
Joined a game where 1 of my teammate and I were new. That guy just kept yelling at us for doing everything "wrong". He kept complaining and insulting that even though some of the stuff he said was good advice, we just ignored him. Some "Vets" are just toxic and ruin the experience for new players.
11:00 YES - Thank You! ... "Study how to play" is the craziest thing I've seen anyone mention in gaming next to "high ping gives you an unfair advantage"
Putting "studying" in the same sentence as "gaming" only makes sense if you actually have good skills and aim to become pro. Else foh with your retarded bs
unfortunately have to put myself into the boat with the vets although i understand that "you gotta start somewhere" but the issue wasnt that oh 4 gold mines, I was teaching new players for 2 weeks straight and gave up and waited abit, the issue was that even if you taught the newbies how to play as a vet player there was a high chance you got snapped back with the K word and intentional trolling for "backseating" , got into 2 games with you and you for sure have improved alot from the beginning 4 mine streams :D
Idk i watched ur streams, went 4/1 in placement and after some games like 50%winrate after the placement, im around 1650 and i dont think im ruining games at all + i have a lot of fun playing this, so thxs for the discovery and the good content! I didnt try fancy things. But its up to anyone to do so, regardless if they watched ur content or not
Yeah i watched your videos and DS looked like fun. I am a 30year old boomer and like these slow paced maps like Legion TD. However after watching a single or two DS videos of yours i understood the concept but i didnt expect that gold spending at early stages was so punishing if put into the wrong stuff. I saw "our" armies winning mid and pushed the goldmine button. Much later when i watched the DS video with your wife i realized that there is a huge punishment for early gold mines/upgrades. The series with your wife is a big help in learning the game.
I stopped playing DS after having more toxic teammates than LoL games. People getting insanely pissed for building a 3rd gold mine and then afking. I do not have time for that, especially from teammates
If I had made Glicko, I would've made it slightly differently than what Grubby explained. I would've used another variable, based on your win rate. Every game you win increases it by some amount and every game that you lose decreases it - it can go between -100 and +100. The higher it is, the slower it increases, and faster it decreases. When it's around 0, your MMR barely moves when you win or lose, and when it's at 100, you can get like 100 MMR from a single game, but if you lose one, you barely lose any MMR (you'll lose plenty of this hidden variable's value tho). This way, even after your MMR has settled, if you get a revelation how to play the game better (or you get coaching, or you watch Grubby's streams, or the map gets a patch and your strategies become stronger) and suddenly start winning a lot more games than you're losing, your MMR will adjust faster. And yet, small win or loss streaks wouldn't be all that significant. EDIT: Thinking a bit more about it, I'd make it check a person's last 100 games, and wins give them 1 point, and losses decrease 1 point. So if you have 50:50 win rate in your last 100 games, you'd be getting or losing only 1 or 2 points per game. But if you have 60:40 win rate, you'll be getting 20 points per game.
lol as an experienced player (adept 5, 300 games), definitely have to adapt to the new players. it is what it is. have to type a lot. but it's fun to see weird strats winning sometimes when there's multiple noobs
The chances of there being a noobie in your team is just as high as there being a noobie in enemy team (or even lower, if you are not a noobie yourself), so how can noobies be a problem exactly? The only real issue is the glacial mmr progress
My first game, one of my teammate flamed me because i went 4 goldmines, i told him that I was new and he told me 'no i saw you before going 4 goldmines' and I was like ' ?????? '
Just in case. The 3rd mine takes around 8 min for it to give you back the investment, 4th is even crazier. This is enough for the opponents to take advantage of your weaker army and win the game. Having 4 mines is basically ~ loss of 550 gold for your army (and -150g. in potential gains from taking down the tower and not losing tempo). The 2nd mine is usually a very debatable thing when you're losing or being heavily pushed, everything beyond is pretty much a distraction for you. You better focus on the units
Thank you.....I played DS with a friend cause your Videos. I dont understand why People blame you. More People -> Bigger DS -> More Content -> More Patches. I like your DS Videos and i like it to play it. Ok MMR Problem is a good Reason but stronger Enemies = more to learn in my Opinion. Learning by doing.
I mean of course people who played a game for four years are experiencing some friction when the playerbase 20x's over 2 weeks. Imagine queuing up for 4v4 wc3 and all of a sudden 7/8 players are literally brand new.
Warcraft 3 players are most eliterist toxic people i ever saw, i wanted to get back into 1n1 and i was pretty good back in the days. I hit up some 2n2 and told them "hey im back from a long long break". instantly i got flamed by my mate and he tried to force me out of the game, after i didnt he left. that happend 2 minuts
После BetBoom Classic заинтересовался Warcraft 3 и познакомился с Direct Strike, благодаря тебе и Cake. Карта выглядит великолепно, и я хотел бы научиться играть, но мне стыдно, что я совсем не понимаю как работают механики войск; так что я быстро бросил играть. У меня что-то вроде 2/8 статистика - стыдно перед людьми, которые попадаются в союзную команду. 😅
my only complaint is not being able to choose the other game modes, only draft is available. many people want to play classic, mixed, or the other one.
This is such a unique situation. 80+% of players are newcomers. The mod isn't made exclusively for just these people. They'll have tolerate a bit till noobs get better or increase their mmr where they don't play with noobs.
Yeah, if you hadn't been so flexible with your ideas/approach to the game, going 1 mine 2 mines 3 mines delayed hero hero first all of it... I'd not even downloaded the game. It's so much more fun watching someone play with infinite variety and new ideas, than some "pro" self-replicate best paths from a guide. The game is in the learning. I got inspired, no one can blame me. >:D
Most games basically come down to one player losing the game for their team. Its not satisfying on the winning or losing side. I dont know what can be done about it, but its not fun for me atm so ill just go back to normal 1v1 ladder.
It also snowballs too hard but ends slowly. Mostly you KNOW a game is lost and there is no way of coming back but you have to wait a long time. Feels like a chore. I can see why people like DS but it just isn't for me.
I feel attacked by that 30 year old comment, cos it's true. :D and yes you are an influencer. Started playing cos I saw on your stream how fun it is, same with Mechabellum.
I used to really hate losing due to "single player mistakes" so I'd grind single player until I rarely made them. Then I know if I lose it is because I didn't adapt correctly to my opponent or what have you, but if you can't do a single player BO I think you should grind that in single player. Like learning to last hit in dota before playing.
These MMR systems only work well in 1 vs 1. These systems come from Chess where it is easy to determine player skill level. Unfortunately, most games like mobas also have similar systems where they are utterly inadequate at judging player's skill. This is where elo hell comes from and why when someone gits gut, it is far easier for them to just start new account rather than just play the game. The more players there are and less influence and power there is in individual player, the worse those systems perform, because you are tied to skill of your teamates which solely come down to luck. Losing streaks of dozen games happen to everyone in mobas and they can happen when there is high uncertainty about your skill level in MMR system. I personally constantly have to carry my teamates in DS Starcraft 2 version. They constantly tech rush, making them leak waves and sometimes badly. The impact is such that even smallest leak can mess up my formation which then it would make susceptible to next wave for which I'm competing fiercely and their AoE effects. These games doesn't have enough room for individual player skill to carry out rest of your hopeless team.
"Elo Hell" doesn't exist. You have even more individual agency to carry in a 3v3 game than a 5v5 game. Every time I get a 2100+ MMR player in my W3C DS team, they always lead & coach their teammates and carry by winning their lanes. They're always great players that deserve the win every time, hence, their MMR not being from being lucky. Excuses are holding people down. The chance of you having new players "ruining" your team is 2/6, vs the chance of them popping up as your opponent is 3/6.
If you are worse than average then you will still see those new players on their way down to their accurate MMR. Only higher than average MMR players would avoid this problem.
regarding playing ranked games as a newbie; Take a look at how many hours CounterStrike you would need to play, to go for ranked. or pubg. All from memory, and been some time, but I think these are huge hour numbers..
Starting MMR is not pointless. You merely need to add two entry points. For people who think they are good and for people who want lower MMR. This then would allow people to self-judge and insert themselves where they belong. Smurfing also wouldn't be affected as they can always create new account or drop some games. You could also improve system with playing against bots or unranked where your performance would be measures and you are given a starting point.
As I previously commented, I play a lot of SC2's Direct strike but never played WC3 reforged version. I don't even have WC3 reforged. And yet... Last night I dreamt of playing it. I remember specific details, starting with Potm before my gold mine, remembering that I should've built the mine and doing it, then getting naga sea witch next along with some melee units in front, then thinking to myself I should get some dispell. However, I hate neo-blizzard and I will never be buying WC3 reforged, but I do seem to like you Grubby. I'll stick to SC2 which I already paid for. (i mean I already paid for wc3 tft but blizzard decided to discontinue it...) also i do 4 refineries in sc2 ds, keep seething "pros"
Reduce the min elo. Dont w8 for them to fall instead w8 for the others to rise. Also make a tutorial. The thing is the system wasnt ready for new players which is because it was not aiming to expand.
I think a big part of the frustration is that the mmr system is not designed to have a massive influx of new players at once. New players are sometimes given 60+ mmr for a win, but they could end up playing 5 games in a row with all brand new players. And by basically just some luck you could be at 1800 from a very small amount of games. It puts these players in games they don't belong in, and it is not an uncommon thing to happen at this time. I don't really think there is a solution besides needing more time, but it can be very frustrating.
I know that you were in MOBAs a while ago but I am enjoying predecessor now because the 3rd person feeling. I think you can test it out if you want to play a smaller community with a more chill atmosphere
I unsubscribed from both of your channels because I'm tired of all the direct strike content. I don't want to watch custom game modes endlessly, sure, doing a custom game now and again is fine, but I watch you to see 1 v 1 matchups and to hear your insight, etc. it's been fun Grubby; been a fan of yours since 2006. Hopefully you'll return to ladder/wc3 champions soon.
Been playing wc3 since 2004, but I cant really agree with that you have ruined direct strike. If anything I really enjoy seeing someone making content on one of my favorite games. I was just supervised you didn't make any ytb vid on direct strike earlier
Seems like a ladder problem if you only get +3 for a win against equally matched opponents elo-wise. Combined with the fact that it's near impossible to have a higher winrate than 60% makes a lot of people frustrated when trying to reach a higher rank.
Those people complaining about all of this are probably the same company executives who expect their young 20 year old interns to have 5 years of experience in that specific field and 15 years of work overall and 54 years of life experience in general.
yeah any real fan of anything will happiliy welcome big amounts of new players. having new players with no idea what they are doing is completely fine. also kinda self report that youre low enough MMR to see all the first timers constantly :D new players are literally always without any possible exception a great thing
It's not you, Grubby. It is the matchmaking system, that was not ready for these amounts of players. And still isn't. This is why I have a guy with 1700 MMR who has played only 10 games in his life teaching me (250+ games only after w3c reset, but been playing DS since like 2022) how to play and having your streams as a showcase. They use stream watch hours as their game knowledge, because they just don't have anything else. You definitelly did a good job for DS having brought so many new players. But it also tends to become yet another toxic cybersport game now. I think W3C should let newbies play in their own pond. Like make them play 10 placement games (instead of 5) with other unrankeds untill they get ranked. You can't just let an unranked play with diamond/adepts or even higher, even though their MMR score might be close.
I don't blame you for ruining Direct Strike... I blame you for ruining my life with Direct Strike addiction.
exactly xD
It's not THAT good. Every game is pretty much the same, which happens with most autobattlers.
No ure not addicted its just one more game
Facts
Shit, have the same. This game is gonna be the last, said noone ever xd
They want people to have 3 years of work experience before playing Direct Strike.
As interns
Yes, scrub
Jokes on them
I'm going to buy Warcraft 3 reforged just to play it
"Hot new user map" that's 4 years old, based on a 6 year old map, which was based on a 13 year old map, which was based on a 20+ year old concept
Came here to comment this lol
Yup i remember playing similar maps before 2010, the units werent always sent horizontally, some maps were vertical. The rest was pretty much the same. Rarely did they include heroes to the roster, though. So Direct Strike is like more finalized product of them all, I guess.
Thats quite new for a warcraft3 map
Humans vs Orcs was a similar mode (without auto sending) called back when I played in Bnet ~2009
StarCraft 1 had desert strike.
Holy moly, i was blamed during the game, my response was "i'm so sorry being a noob, definitely my fault..." seems to be worked, guys shut up, especially when i added, can you explain where i can get experience beyond actually playing the game?
UPD: i'm 38 and i'm in a huge nostalgia about days with no responsibilities >_
I'm almost 30 and that's what hurts the most about any sort of competitive style game. People used to winning just can't handle copping a couple on the chin because new people are coming in. I sometimes get frustrated playing games with new people, but the feeling of teaching them how to do things better is a much better feeling than winning a game.
Much healthier to just chuckle at the mistakes they make (Most likely you've made them at some point in the past, so it's just relatable) and then go "Hey bud, I know how this ends, you may not like it xD"
i want a grubby ruins series now
Separate yt channel
You know, those veterans, instead of complaining, why not work with Grubby for a definitive tutorial, to help the new players.
There is a tutorial guide on the DS Discord. However it is very long and tedious to read through. Not even I or the other top 1% players have read it completely (I mean, I cant speak for everyone, but I didnt read it all, and most people I know didnt either)
Actually, this is a really good suggestion. If Grubby is up for it, we could work together on this.
I am just a random dude, with no certain voice in the community, but I could hit up some people. My clan is home to some of the top 10 players of this community.
Just like when he start dota, a lot of legends, active proplayers,…. eager to show him parts of the game. Grubby still have time to play and learn and try everything he want but he also has chance to improve a lot quicker. Through the stream, his viewers also can learn more and more. If the trouble is just knowledge different, then there is no reason to work together.
ALSO, tutorials have been popping up lately. Just not with Grubby's influence.
Because grubby would never work with them to make a tutorial lol, unfortunate but true
@@Pixelbuddha_ It also isn't a good guide and doesn't provide any sort of distinctive instructions or synergy examples. It fundamentally says "every unit is good" which is just objectively incorrect
The irony is these people matching up with new players are actually not good players. The actual good players are significantly higher ELO and very rarely get matched up with them. It's like the average shitter down your local chess club starts complaining about new players but they're like 1200 FIDE.
i say, if you can’t handle loosing, thats your problem to solve.
How dare you learn to play the game before knowing how to play the game.
Welcome to WC3 custom games. If you haven’t been playing 20 years and didn’t help develop the map, why are you even playing?
That's how playing usemaps works bro
Is this map an exclusive club for the ~800 people pre-Grub or what? Gatekeeping rather than initiating new players is how your game will stagnate you know.
That said, I like to watch Grubby's growth while taking on new things, and it's interesting seeing a melee veteran's takes (biases and all) on this map.
Next I'd love to see Grubby do away with his OCD and experiment with asymmetric positions, like forcing ranged units to focus fire on one side and such.
I've been playing this mode since the begining, but just time to time, i was like lvl 30-40.
I do about a few games per week and i don't think it's a bad thing that you ve introduced new players to that game mode, why would it be ?
I love when the game i play gets more views.
I discovered Mechabellum through you and i'm glad I did buy that, i wish more people would play Mechabellum.
Im getting addicted to this mode. But my experience is way to good, al the ppl dont blame each other, and everyone is trying ro figure the Best strategy. Of course some of them are way too clunky, but the mode is so short yet so fun that it doesnt matter.
Thanks for showing this!
i am a 31 old grubling trying to hold on to my youth memories by playing direct strike
@22:51 damn that hit way harder than it should
5:38 already dropping, dead game!
nice video
Yes, we are all individuals!
Indeed. around 30 year old individuals apparently^^
People who complain about newbie are also toxic generally against those player. Instead of giving them tip to improve, they will rage at them and make their game worse.
I play Direct Strike 3v3 Commanders in SC2 because WC3 is still broken on Mac for weeks, and I can confirm that when I started playing I got a lot of toxic messages from teammates/opponents who couldn't believe I was a new player learning 😂
people whining about getting games with people who are new & bad at the game is a self-report that they are the same skill level as a new & bad player and are frustrated with their own lack of skill, but don't contain the emotional intelligence to identify that the problem they are having is internal, not external, which is also probably why they are still at a skill level on par with new players lol
playingn this mode broke my laptop and made me finally buy the parts to build a modern gaming pc, so, thanks for the 6 degrees of motivation mr grubby
The Warcraft III custom scene isn't generally open to new players because the established playerbase has no actual hope for the game's longevity, despite its proven longevity. Their scene has effectively been dying for over a decade. The remaining participants are inflexible and beholden to their established ways.
Some of these dedicated people have been playing the same custom map for over 15 years, sometimes with the same people, who all know the whole catalogue of the map's bugs, functions and features. They weild precise knowledge of the optimal way to play the game, including all the exploits and imbalances.
In 90% of their games, the custom player is playing with other players that are equally entrenched in the game as they are.
Suddenly, when this stops being the case and new people flood in, the familiar and comforting experience that the custom player is used to is challenged. This is why new players are seen as a threat rather than an opportunity. People don't want the game to grow because they have resigned already to the fact that it will die; instead, they want the game to provide a consistent experience until that unavoidable doomsday does arrive.
Scary
I feel like if people are stuck in 1500s, maybe they deserve to be 1500. Which... Means if they want to not play with newbies... Climbing is a really good option.
11:00 As a person who has recently experienced a lot of frustration with new player influx in the ranked mode of a different game, I can fully get behind the statement of "you should learn the game before jumping into ranked matches", UNLESS W3Champions doesn't have an "Unranked" mode (i.e. there is only one way to get into a game). Sniping the streamer is all fun and games until you don't and get in a game with people who expect a certain level of performance from their teammate and you just don't have the game sense necessary to perform at that level, leading to frustration and toxicity.
I can totally understand that no one want his daily routine to get "disturbed", so getting suddenly matched against completly new audience (noobs, veterans) in a very niche mode can cause that "feeling". But there is no other way around to introduce new players to the game. So just be patient, let the community get bigger first, and the skill level get flattened later (in a month or something everyone catch up in level with a better matchmaking potentia because of a bigger player base). Its a win win situation that need some patience, thats it.
Stuff like this is why I stopped playing competitive games years ago.
Way too many tryhardy/sweaty people worrying about what is meant to be just a game with the ultimate objective of *gasps* fun.
This might blow your mind, but people have fun winning. Playing to win is fun for them, you are not the higher authority on what is fun for people other than yourself.
This might blow your mind, but I did not claim to be the "higher authority" on anything, I am not repressing you or anyone else lol
But... this video does deal with others actively causing people to have less fun... I would worry about them and not me, since that approach is detrimental to the very community that they are a part of : )
@steel5897 if you have fun winning, surely a surplus of newbies is fun for you. You can stomp your opponents with ease and with more games.
@@missingdays1 Problem is that it's a team game, and when you perceive that your random teammates are ruining the game for you, that's frustrating. That's always a problem for competitive players in team games.
Still, the idea that Grubby has "ruined" the game mode is kind of silly.
@@saalok but you kind of imply that you're a "higher authority" when you claim that "having fun" is the ultimate objective of the game, and that being sweaty/try hard is detrimental. In anything in life where competition can be made, some people will try to climb to the top of that competition even in the context of perhaps the silliest things. It's going to happen. So I think you're wrong to try to claim that we all should aim for simply a more casual outlook, even if it's for a mere simple game.
Don't get me wrong, this doesn't mean I agree with them blaming grubby for anything. I think they're wrong about that.
This is the main issue with many a WC3 custom game; their meta or optimal playstyle is so set that if you havent been playing for continuously for years you end up “ruining” others’ game
The classic theorem that the employer requires job experience before they have reached the job market 😅
This is true to Everygame where XY player makes a guide for the game, they ruin the game xDDD
Metas are more fun to when they aren't solved. People complaining that new players are ruining their games never made sense to me in any game.
I appreciate what you’re doing for the little guy lol! I started playing last week and I tend to just ignore the flamers who all chat and whine. But I also played a game last night with some newer players like me on my team and we all had a great time, we were chatting and working together and it was probably the most fun I’ve had in a team based multiplayer game in a very long time. Thanks for showing people the game, Grubby!
I ran into so many people who took your word as gospel, but they didn't understand the fundamentals of the game, i'll teach or give advice then they would say "but grubby said this"
I got into direct strike because of you grubby but i never watched any of your tutorials or gameplay of it since I know you were experimenting and just as new to me to the mode
Joined a game where 1 of my teammate and I were new. That guy just kept yelling at us for doing everything "wrong". He kept complaining and insulting that even though some of the stuff he said was good advice, we just ignored him. Some "Vets" are just toxic and ruin the experience for new players.
11:00 YES - Thank You! ... "Study how to play" is the craziest thing I've seen anyone mention in gaming next to "high ping gives you an unfair advantage"
It does in some shooters, using self made lagg spikes is a thing as a kind of cheat
classic catch-22
So you telling me you don't need to study in order to perform a task in a level considered passable, just don't study and be mediocre, got it
Putting "studying" in the same sentence as "gaming" only makes sense if you actually have good skills and aim to become pro. Else foh with your retarded bs
Cant wait for Castle Fight on W3 Champions. It will be halarious with all the Rage guys. xD
unfortunately have to put myself into the boat with the vets although i understand that "you gotta start somewhere" but the issue wasnt that oh 4 gold mines, I was teaching new players for 2 weeks straight and gave up and waited abit, the issue was that even if you taught the newbies how to play as a vet player there was a high chance you got snapped back with the K word and intentional trolling for "backseating" , got into 2 games with you and you for sure have improved alot from the beginning 4 mine streams :D
Idk i watched ur streams, went 4/1 in placement and after some games like 50%winrate after the placement, im around 1650 and i dont think im ruining games at all + i have a lot of fun playing this, so thxs for the discovery and the good content!
I didnt try fancy things. But its up to anyone to do so, regardless if they watched ur content or not
I rashed wyrm. Beat a guy. Then he started flaming grubby for bringing his noob team mate to DS. (Mixed game at no rank btw its on Bnet)
10:25 instant like, important message that stood true for my last 27 years of multiplayer games.
Yeah i watched your videos and DS looked like fun. I am a 30year old boomer and like these slow paced maps like Legion TD.
However after watching a single or two DS videos of yours i understood the concept but i didnt expect that gold spending at early stages was so punishing if put into the wrong stuff.
I saw "our" armies winning mid and pushed the goldmine button.
Much later when i watched the DS video with your wife i realized that there is a huge punishment for early gold mines/upgrades. The series with your wife is a big help in learning the game.
I stopped playing DS after having more toxic teammates than LoL games.
People getting insanely pissed for building a 3rd gold mine and then afking. I do not have time for that, especially from teammates
If I had made Glicko, I would've made it slightly differently than what Grubby explained. I would've used another variable, based on your win rate. Every game you win increases it by some amount and every game that you lose decreases it - it can go between -100 and +100. The higher it is, the slower it increases, and faster it decreases. When it's around 0, your MMR barely moves when you win or lose, and when it's at 100, you can get like 100 MMR from a single game, but if you lose one, you barely lose any MMR (you'll lose plenty of this hidden variable's value tho).
This way, even after your MMR has settled, if you get a revelation how to play the game better (or you get coaching, or you watch Grubby's streams, or the map gets a patch and your strategies become stronger) and suddenly start winning a lot more games than you're losing, your MMR will adjust faster. And yet, small win or loss streaks wouldn't be all that significant.
EDIT: Thinking a bit more about it, I'd make it check a person's last 100 games, and wins give them 1 point, and losses decrease 1 point. So if you have 50:50 win rate in your last 100 games, you'd be getting or losing only 1 or 2 points per game. But if you have 60:40 win rate, you'll be getting 20 points per game.
lol as an experienced player (adept 5, 300 games), definitely have to adapt to the new players.
it is what it is. have to type a lot.
but it's fun to see weird strats winning sometimes when there's multiple noobs
The rimworld backround music really made your dialogue funny xD
Can't wait for grubby to come ruin Werewolf Transylvania. We'll have lots of fun
The chances of there being a noobie in your team is just as high as there being a noobie in enemy team (or even lower, if you are not a noobie yourself), so how can noobies be a problem exactly? The only real issue is the glacial mmr progress
tierlist of games that grubbys ruined please!
That grubby viewer explanation was pretty spot on. 29 in nov
That line about being 30 or so years old and hanging to their youth hit me so hard hahahaha
My first game, one of my teammate flamed me because i went 4 goldmines, i told him that I was new and he told me 'no i saw you before going 4 goldmines' and I was like ' ?????? '
Just in case. The 3rd mine takes around 8 min for it to give you back the investment, 4th is even crazier. This is enough for the opponents to take advantage of your weaker army and win the game. Having 4 mines is basically ~ loss of 550 gold for your army (and -150g. in potential gains from taking down the tower and not losing tempo). The 2nd mine is usually a very debatable thing when you're losing or being heavily pushed, everything beyond is pretty much a distraction for you. You better focus on the units
@@iz5808damn, the flamer even went to yt
@@iz5808 Thanks for the info
Direct strike players tend to be very salty in general, especially the bad ones
@@iz5808 intrestingly, the biggest stomp i saw, was a dude rushing 4 mines litteraly building no units. at the ~15-20 Minute Mark he was 1v3 the Game.
Thank you.....I played DS with a friend cause your Videos. I dont understand why People blame you. More People -> Bigger DS -> More Content -> More Patches. I like your DS Videos and i like it to play it.
Ok MMR Problem is a good Reason but stronger Enemies = more to learn in my Opinion. Learning by doing.
The 3v3 mode seems to have +10 times more players. That's insane increase.
I had a guy flame me for like 10mins that I didn't have bears upgrade on dotc
...except I'd already had it for 5mins when he started flaming lmao
I mean of course people who played a game for four years are experiencing some friction when the playerbase 20x's over 2 weeks. Imagine queuing up for 4v4 wc3 and all of a sudden 7/8 players are literally brand new.
The stock footage of that guy 'playing' made me lmao
22:45 I feel personally attacked... :D
thanks for getting me into DS and back into my comfy childhood game, WC3
Warcraft 3 players are most eliterist toxic people i ever saw, i wanted to get back into 1n1 and i was pretty good back in the days. I hit up some 2n2 and told them "hey im back from a long long break". instantly i got flamed by my mate and he tried to force me out of the game, after i didnt he left. that happend 2 minuts
После BetBoom Classic заинтересовался Warcraft 3 и познакомился с Direct Strike, благодаря тебе и Cake. Карта выглядит великолепно, и я хотел бы научиться играть, но мне стыдно, что я совсем не понимаю как работают механики войск; так что я быстро бросил играть. У меня что-то вроде 2/8 статистика - стыдно перед людьми, которые попадаются в союзную команду. 😅
my only complaint is not being able to choose the other game modes, only draft is available. many people want to play classic, mixed, or the other one.
This is such a unique situation. 80+% of players are newcomers. The mod isn't made exclusively for just these people. They'll have tolerate a bit till noobs get better or increase their mmr where they don't play with noobs.
Yeah, if you hadn't been so flexible with your ideas/approach to the game, going 1 mine 2 mines 3 mines delayed hero hero first all of it... I'd not even downloaded the game. It's so much more fun watching someone play with infinite variety and new ideas, than some "pro" self-replicate best paths from a guide. The game is in the learning. I got inspired, no one can blame me. >:D
Most games basically come down to one player losing the game for their team. Its not satisfying on the winning or losing side.
I dont know what can be done about it, but its not fun for me atm so ill just go back to normal 1v1 ladder.
It also snowballs too hard but ends slowly. Mostly you KNOW a game is lost and there is no way of coming back but you have to wait a long time. Feels like a chore. I can see why people like DS but it just isn't for me.
@@shrandisthere are come-back games and those ones are amazing
I feel attacked by that 30 year old comment, cos it's true. :D
and yes you are an influencer. Started playing cos I saw on your stream how fun it is, same with Mechabellum.
I started playing DS because of you on bnet.
The part about old people 100% true
I used to really hate losing due to "single player mistakes" so I'd grind single player until I rarely made them. Then I know if I lose it is because I didn't adapt correctly to my opponent or what have you, but if you can't do a single player BO I think you should grind that in single player. Like learning to last hit in dota before playing.
These MMR systems only work well in 1 vs 1. These systems come from Chess where it is easy to determine player skill level. Unfortunately, most games like mobas also have similar systems where they are utterly inadequate at judging player's skill. This is where elo hell comes from and why when someone gits gut, it is far easier for them to just start new account rather than just play the game. The more players there are and less influence and power there is in individual player, the worse those systems perform, because you are tied to skill of your teamates which solely come down to luck. Losing streaks of dozen games happen to everyone in mobas and they can happen when there is high uncertainty about your skill level in MMR system.
I personally constantly have to carry my teamates in DS Starcraft 2 version. They constantly tech rush, making them leak waves and sometimes badly. The impact is such that even smallest leak can mess up my formation which then it would make susceptible to next wave for which I'm competing fiercely and their AoE effects. These games doesn't have enough room for individual player skill to carry out rest of your hopeless team.
"Elo Hell" doesn't exist. You have even more individual agency to carry in a 3v3 game than a 5v5 game.
Every time I get a 2100+ MMR player in my W3C DS team, they always lead & coach their teammates and carry by winning their lanes. They're always great players that deserve the win every time, hence, their MMR not being from being lucky.
Excuses are holding people down. The chance of you having new players "ruining" your team is 2/6, vs the chance of them popping up as your opponent is 3/6.
@@rllmgr6117 You need to play a proper 1 vs 1 competitive game if you think that you have an influence here...
Grubby got a mischievous glint in his eye, I think he knew he was ruining it all along! 😁
yeah the community needs to grow up.
If you are worse than average then you will still see those new players on their way down to their accurate MMR. Only higher than average MMR players would avoid this problem.
we gotta make grubby play test of faith
regarding playing ranked games as a newbie;
Take a look at how many hours CounterStrike you would need to play, to go for ranked. or pubg.
All from memory, and been some time, but I think these are huge hour numbers..
Starting MMR is not pointless. You merely need to add two entry points. For people who think they are good and for people who want lower MMR. This then would allow people to self-judge and insert themselves where they belong. Smurfing also wouldn't be affected as they can always create new account or drop some games.
You could also improve system with playing against bots or unranked where your performance would be measures and you are given a starting point.
Introducing new players is really important for the health of any game. Don't listen to the haters
I complained, but honestly it’s better because queues are like 3 mins now down from 15 to 30mins.
I been lifting weights during DS games. I did 160 shoulder presses in one game and 440bicep curls in another.
As I previously commented, I play a lot of SC2's Direct strike but never played WC3 reforged version. I don't even have WC3 reforged. And yet... Last night I dreamt of playing it. I remember specific details, starting with Potm before my gold mine, remembering that I should've built the mine and doing it, then getting naga sea witch next along with some melee units in front, then thinking to myself I should get some dispell.
However, I hate neo-blizzard and I will never be buying WC3 reforged, but I do seem to like you Grubby. I'll stick to SC2 which I already paid for. (i mean I already paid for wc3 tft but blizzard decided to discontinue it...)
also i do 4 refineries in sc2 ds, keep seething "pros"
Im 29 when i was young I had a tutor that bought me the WC3 bundle chest for christmas. Put me on to my fav game + WoW.
I was working while this video was in the background and then i realized "wait wtf do i hear Rimworld music?"
Reduce the min elo. Dont w8 for them to fall instead w8 for the others to rise. Also make a tutorial. The thing is the system wasnt ready for new players which is because it was not aiming to expand.
I think a big part of the frustration is that the mmr system is not designed to have a massive influx of new players at once. New players are sometimes given 60+ mmr for a win, but they could end up playing 5 games in a row with all brand new players. And by basically just some luck you could be at 1800 from a very small amount of games. It puts these players in games they don't belong in, and it is not an uncommon thing to happen at this time. I don't really think there is a solution besides needing more time, but it can be very frustrating.
The timeless competitive game problem where veterans crush all life out of the game they like.
I know that you were in MOBAs a while ago but I am enjoying predecessor now because the 3rd person feeling. I think you can test it out if you want to play a smaller community with a more chill atmosphere
Grubby finds out who "they" are.
He got closer to the truth than Alex Jones.
No free will.
Must make four mines.
I unsubscribed from both of your channels because I'm tired of all the direct strike content. I don't want to watch custom game modes endlessly, sure, doing a custom game now and again is fine, but I watch you to see 1 v 1 matchups and to hear your insight, etc.
it's been fun Grubby; been a fan of yours since 2006. Hopefully you'll return to ladder/wc3 champions soon.
Sucha mow-topic. The Matchmaking is the rootcause of every problem here not the players playing.
Been playing wc3 since 2004, but I cant really agree with that you have ruined direct strike. If anything I really enjoy seeing someone making content on one of my favorite games. I was just supervised you didn't make any ytb vid on direct strike earlier
I am planning to buy also soon cuz of you streaming Direct Strike!! ahahah
Seems like a ladder problem if you only get +3 for a win against equally matched opponents elo-wise. Combined with the fact that it's near impossible to have a higher winrate than 60% makes a lot of people frustrated when trying to reach a higher rank.
60% means you climb Up. Even 50,99% means you climb Up. So whats the Problem? Basic math ?
Now also consider that 1v1 holds 2 people and Ds holds 4-6
Those people complaining about all of this are probably the same company executives who expect their young 20 year old interns to have 5 years of experience in that specific field and 15 years of work overall and 54 years of life experience in general.
That's right Grubby, you're not old... just middle aged.
I wouldnt play the mode so much if there wasnt a huge amount of long term cosmetic progression. 31W 44L atm but it started off a lot worse
Hey Grubby, would be nice of you to come over and ruin my Warhammer 1v1 now, just saying :D
All I know, is that DS forced me from Grubby to B2W for my W3 entertainment needs
yeah any real fan of anything will happiliy welcome big amounts of new players. having new players with no idea what they are doing is completely fine. also kinda self report that youre low enough MMR to see all the first timers constantly :D
new players are literally always without any possible exception a great thing
"that *don't* make *no* kind of sense"
Oh, so it does make sense, eh? Knew it. Grubby ruined DS!
It's not you, Grubby. It is the matchmaking system, that was not ready for these amounts of players. And still isn't. This is why I have a guy with 1700 MMR who has played only 10 games in his life teaching me (250+ games only after w3c reset, but been playing DS since like 2022) how to play and having your streams as a showcase. They use stream watch hours as their game knowledge, because they just don't have anything else. You definitelly did a good job for DS having brought so many new players. But it also tends to become yet another toxic cybersport game now.
I think W3C should let newbies play in their own pond. Like make them play 10 placement games (instead of 5) with other unrankeds untill they get ranked. You can't just let an unranked play with diamond/adepts or even higher, even though their MMR score might be close.
This weirdest logic ever if anything getting so many new players is good for the long term health of the game.