Autocracies Vs Democracies: Democracies Don't Deliver to Others
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 มิ.ย. 2022
- Watching Closely: The Shadow of the Ukraine War and Future Cooperation with China
The rise of Chinese power and its influence on the global stage is challenging the West. Whether the COVID-19 crisis or the war in Ukraine, China has sought every opportunity to project its power through diplomatic, technological, and economic means. The growing tensions between the West and China have had a wide array of implications and consequences in the geopolitical sphere of smaller countries' interactions. Mindful of China’s political support for Russia, several countries, including some from Central and Eastern Europe, have started following Lithuania’s steps, reconsidering their attitudes towards China. Are the EU Member States able to converge their decision-making processes and attitudes to act as one united voice? How is the growing asymmetry between Russia and China perceived by the West? What dangers or opportunities does China see in the Russia-Ukraine conflict? What are the areas where the West can and should constructively co-operate with China?
Samir Saran, President, Observer Research Foundation
Yanzhong Huang, Senior Fellow for Global Health, Council on Foreign Relations
Rachel Rizzo, Senior Fellow, Europe Center, Atlantic Council
Led by: Roland Freudenstein, Vice President, GLOBSEC
#GLOBSEC2022 #Ukraine #Russia #RussiaUkraine #SamirSaran #YanzhongHuang #RachelRizzo #RolandFreudenstein
This video was originally produced and published by GLOBSEC. The original recording can be found here • Watching Closely: The ...
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The US really needs to make clear what the rules are which make up the "Rules Based Order". For example, the US says China should abide by the United Nations Convention on Law of the Sea but the US itself is one of only two countries that are not signatories to the convention. Similarly, the US says that China should abide by the ruling of the World Court directed arbitration with respect to the dispute between China and the Philippines over the SCS. But the US does not recognise the jurisdiction of the World Court. It's clear then that UNCLOS and the World Court aren't part of the "Rules Based Order". So what is ? For example, what rule allowed the US to invade Iraq based on fabricated evidence of WMD, resulting in the deaths of a million people. Or the invasion of Afghanistan resulting in a quarter of a million deaths. Someone help me: what are the rules ! Then there are the many agreements that the US has reneged on such as the nuclear agreement with Iran, the intermediate range missile agreement etc. I guess these weren't part of the "Rules Based Order" so what is ? Finally, there is the International Criminal Court which the US has blocked from investigating US forces war crimes in Afghanistan. The US issued an executive order effectively criminalizing anyone who works at the ICC. Its lawyers, judges, researchers etc could now have their U.S. bank accounts frozen, U.S. visas revoked and travel to the U.S. denied.
Can I summarise what I think the "Rules Based Order" really is: It means that the US does what it likes and the rest of us do what we are told.
Edited: This is taken off the internet. Can't remember who posted the above, but I would like to attribute this to the writer, whoever you are.
The best ever comment I have ever read in TH-cam. 99% of the countries and people in the world never thought what is rule-based order, just follow what USA says like a parrot.
Rule based order: 1st Rule benefits the US 2nd Rule benefit US whitel allie 3rd Rule benefit non-white allie/vassal states
You hit the nail on the head, US is simply double standard 🥺🥺😱💀☠
Amazing, a good point.
Agree with Soon Tong Quah !
Why should China tell how she feels about Ukraine and Russia ? She does not need to tell us as she may no have time to reflect on the situation ! After all , the US is providing weapons without asking what others think !
That is the US again trying to impose its will on others
this is a de facto crime. Damm if you do dammm if you don't. There is no factual views but full of stools
First why china support russia over UKRAINE UNIFICATION..china playing games with all countries in the world
Putin will CONQUER EUROPE BY TAKING SUPPORT OF THE MONGOLS
Because the US is clearly picking sides and telling the world what it thinks.
Being upfront and honest. Not trying to be sneaky, fence sitting, or deceitful. Why can’t China be the same? They see Ukraine as being invaded by Russia, simply for being close to Washington.
China surely is on Russias side, while trying to pretend it’s on the side of righteousness.
The US preaches and forces democracy on sovereign nations e.g. regime change and 'spreading democracy at the barrel of a gun' but this in itself is autocratic. The US says that it should lead the world but it really means that the US should dictate rules to the world, which the US is in itself immune.
You are correct, we do everything at barrel of a gun. The US is supposed to be a Constitutional Republic. Our founders recognized a pure democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what’s for dinner. We cannot vote for or vote people in to take away our freedoms no matter how democratic it is. Also with our so called democracy, we don’t vote on going into(invading) these endless wars, don’t vote on our fiat debt based currency, the financial budget, and don’t vote on much of importance. They are supposed to represent the people and the constitution and that’s it. But both sides love wars, power and spending OUR money.
Russia soon defeated in Ukraine ???
Russia already won, they are controlling Ukrainian most important regions when it comes from the economy.
80% of Ukraine income coming from those regions.
US know it, that's why they are escalate this. US is desperate now, because they underestimated Russia's military capacity.
Russia only uses about 150000 to 200000 troops in Ukraine against 650000 Ukrainian troops with western weapons.
Still Russia slowly grinding Ukrainian military azov down, and gaining more ground every day.
US want WW3, and nuclear winter. Because they can't accept loosing, that's scary.
Exactly
Agree
Thanks
Rachel is a US policy tribune. Samir shows that India is increasing her sovereignty. The Chinese guy just repeats the mass media messages.
No! At least the Chinese guy represents the views of me and almost all of my friends.
Rachel, with no wedding ring I’m assuming no children, see’s the world as her children and she must play mom and dad for us peasants who can’t function on our own.
@@heroking5659 🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️
Not a single Chinese person was ever invited to this channel to give their voices... if this isn't propaganda, what is?
Yes, do not attend nor watch such hypocrisy !
Yes such one sided war mongers. Sad.
Covid lockdown maybe 🤔
Have u ever seen anyone with different perspective on Chinese media or anywhere? However china gives his perspective vis Singapore so you can check Shangri-La dialogue.
@@GG-ur4km So you agree that China and the West are the same...
Well Samir is partially right while asking for US invasion of Iraq, but at the same time he is not so true when he says Indians do not agree with Russian stand: We do. We consider Ukraine war as act of NATO expansion by west to challenge Russia.
Also Russia is the one who helped us multiple times when west tried to bully us, so we the people of India will always support Russia.
West is funding Pak who in turn is spreading terrorism in India, but then west do not condemn Pak, this includes Ukraine who supported Pak on Kashmir.
Well , which shows how unreliable Indians like Samir are in those kinds of talking heads shows . Samir mixes in some truths and untruths just to confuse the audience , making sure he throws in some red meat for the mostly western audience as well as throwing in some untruths like oh well, Indians don't support Russians (while refusing to condemn the Russians and pumping up the oil purchases) . Who is he kidding ? I guess the gullible while making some truthful Indians upset about his ingenuous position on Russian support by Indians. I guess Westerners will tolerate and even go along with the charade as long as they understand they need the Indians for now until they can be discarded like an old rag.
Ur hypocrite of high level accuse pak who lose 15000 military & 65000 thousands civilians to fight terrorism how many civilians & military people according us 4 star General pak army play biggest role to fight against without them will never destroy terrorists afganistan pak mountains area
You lack actual facts to comment on the issue. USSR was our ally. Not Russia. USSR included Ukraine as well.
Second,
It was geopolitics which compelled them to be friend with us as China was breaking up with USSR and US was major threat and Pakistan was ally to both so they needed to balance both China and Pak through us.
Third,
India values it's friendship with Russia but Russia is engaging with Pakistan more intimately. Actually they are big part of Talibani success as they were coordinating their effort with China and Pak.
Fourth,
Don't live in fool's paradise. The friendship in international relations is strategic and interest based. We are on our side and must remain on our side. Russians can be our friends as long as they don't contradict our interests directly. If they chose Chinese friendship and cut us then that is dangerous for us.
Finally,
We are economically, politically and publically are more engaged with the west than Russia. Our interests lies with the west. Yes, don't trust them but don't be fool that the trust is on which we are going to build our relationship. It would be based on interests and you can be certain that Americans will value interests more than anything.
@@IndiaTides Exactly what you say. Talk is cheap !!! India is the biggest democracy in the world while cracking down on muslims and punjabis. We're not the even considering women's rights in the rape culture that prevails in India. On that same vein, India values its friendship with Russia as long as there are benefits to be made. It's transactional. India also values the West as long as there's money to be made, who cares whether the West keeps reminding India about their human rights violations or show reluctance to help India during Covid by not sending vaccine materials.
speak for yourself, india is a democracy and consists of a multitude of opinions, not everyone agrees with your idiotic viewpoint
She said it.
USA to China: can you please help us to get rid of Russia so that we can concentrate on getting rid of you.
Indian stand will be appreciated by the world.. independent and not judge by anyone..
Samir makes the most sense.
simply biased against China 👹🤘💪
This Samir Lives in Singapore WHO have THE same politic system like China, he is a fraud
He said BRICS will find it hard to act in unison and may be less relevant. Now BRICS is expanding next year. In fact barely 20 days from today it's membership will double.
The lady panellist said that it should not be framed as democracy vs autocracy battle but this ORF guy no it should be. That shows his juvenile thinking.
Basically he embarrassed himself and India.
Sami’r is clear and full of novel ideas. The others are more closed minded and are looking thru one lens.
Hypocrisy, anyone? Hypocrisy by any other name is still hypocrisy. Does the moderator know that Hong Kong had no right to vote under the British?
And how will he feel if China support people who storm the Capital Hills?
Of course they do but they don't want other people to know
Yes, and infact in the 60s hkongers were being shot dead under british rule for protesting and family members of the protesters were rooted out and arrested even tho there's no evidence of their participation, i agree with you John
Exactly, moderator is too biased.
US Rules based Order = do what we think is right and don't do what you think is right. We, we are right and not you
"Rules based orders" mean my orders based on my rules and my interpretation. Brilliant isn't it.
India & China are civilizational states and have peacefully co-existed for centuries ( except in 1962). The 62 war was also due to ill-defined borders inherited by both the countries from the colonial masters.
Indian subcontinent with its various tribes and kingdoms existed for thousands of years. the British cobbled the various tribes and kingdoms to form India. India had to gather its history here and there with myths mixed in. ask yourself why the partition after independence.
@@willengel2458 Indian civilization has existed since before Indus valley civilization and British can never claim to create Indian nation state. It always existed from before western European came into being.
There is no history land touching China and India. After Chinese occupation of Independent Tibet in 1950 Chinese are right on the Northern Border of India for the first time in history. There is no co-existence between India and China, it is propaganda of the CCP and their Wumaos, the 50 cents army of the PLA or in other words dogs of the CCP.
@@Bhoetuk: In History, Tibet has been part of China. So it had a common border with India. Western propaganda does not want to see India & China become allies. Today China does capitalism better than America
@@lakshmineuroscience is India so tolerant and compassionate or scared to counter Chinese Salami slicing at the Indo Tibetan Border. One is a Democratic country with rule of Law and the other is a Communist country where there is no rule of Law. What would you do?
The moderator should shut his mouth. He is not on the panel of experts. No one wants to hear his opinion
Samir Saran has a super sharp brain
I wish to say "how di do" to Samir, he was a sincere and factual thinker,( although I believe this discussion's aim is to win the support of India to the "western camp"). Our Chinese brother on the panel was greatly side lined, we know what that means. I am glad to surmise that India has steadfastly remained "neutral". There is a rumour circulated by "Borzziman" that a rough tacit consensus is developing that China will ban export of her "rare earth minerals"; India will ban export of her wheat & grain and Russia will stop exporting oil and gas to "unfriendly countries. This action if it exist will end western economies; and I hope it does. There is hardly a need to discuss the issues posed by the various speakers because they are issues we already know exist to CONTAIN China & Russia. From my own point of view, the main point that was made at the discussion was what Samir said, a point that was missed out by the moderator, that China and Russia are leading an opinion group that seeks to form a different monetary system that circumvent the "swift" system, a system that enables the US to sanctions everything within sight. This will succeed because members will transact business in their own local currencies. There is only a need to bear in mind these 22 developments
The Chinese dont have a defence strong enough given their bad actions in the world and domestically. They can only defend themselves and cant set the narrative. China is a morally bankrupt country and is using its wealth to throw its weight around. It has no soft power or abilities to diplomatically win over anybody. A bully like US/EU countries.
Thanks for that detailed reply 🙏
India shall never be a part of China led world order. We are the 3rd pole in the new world order. USA and China both need India on their corners so to speak but we will set the rules to our advantage. India is not neutral we are aligned to our interests.
Why does the West desire to hold China accountable? US thinks that China should be a responsible power and sanctions Russia while India can make her own decisions as a sovereign to buy oil from Russia. While many avoided referencing Israel’s occupation and US invasion of Afghanistan, they are quick to point at China which is a clear case of double standards.
@@jertan2171obviously west is a hypocracy and we want Asia to belong to Asians
It was US (Nixon/Kissinger) who initiated cooperation with China 1970s which was NOT a democracy and non English speaking over India which was Democracy and English speaking. Wonder why? It is all geopolitical. Now that China has risen as #2 economy and expected to become #1 in next 5-20 years, the narrative of Autocracy vs Democracy has emerged along with human rights issues. BTW, US is a plutocracy, China is a meritocracy, and India a kleptocracy or tribal democracy. US is in bed with Saudi Arabia which is the biggest autocracy with no human rights murdering dissident in their consulate. It is all matter of convenience for US bully. Saudis support USD reserved currency status by denominating oil in USD. Samir Saran from India has biased opinion on China because of border issue with China. India is falling in the lap of US to serve their geopolitical goals against China. India was offered to settle their border dispute by China three times along long line of actual control in last 60 years which was rejected by India. Does India think it can resolve the border issue in next 100 years with China. Indian Gov't lacks the political will to settle the border issue because of public emotions. US has violated more countries' sovereignty than Russia/China. Russia/Ukraine war narrative lacks historical context which is NATO expansion to Russia's border, non implementation of Minsk agreements, banning Russian language in Eastern Ukraine, and Crimea which is mostly Russian speaking, killing over 14K civilians in last eight years in Donbas region of Ukraine. Don't forget Cuban missile crisis. If Russia/China build military alliance in South America, US bully will attack.
India and China: Let's all try to get along while being individuals
Democrats: We can't have that!
Can you please explain -- I did not understand the Democrat POV .. How is it different from the Republican one?
Who cares about democracy or Autocracy ? People only want is to get better life.
Always a pleasure to listen samir.
I see more of a meritocracy vs plutocracy. If China’s government is so bad as the western describes, just leave China alone, let it rot from inside, no need to be so busy body interfering China’s this that A-Z.
Indian Chinese border dispute is more of the legacy of the British colonial government. The Indian had fallen victim of the British empire and China experienced the century of humiliation. Wonder why the Indian government since independent still happily inherit the expended territory from the colonial power and play victim since then?
India didn't inherit expanded territories from the Brits. In fact the opposite happened - we lost Pakistan and Bangladesh. Had we inherited Bangladesh and Pakistan, India would have been the largest inhabitable country on earth both by landmass and by population.
If we go by historical claims, India can claim Pakistan, Bangladesh and parts of Afghanistan. Even Srilanka was ruled briefly by South Indian emperors (The Chola dynasty), straits of Malacca (parts of present day Malaysia and Indonesia) was invaded by the very same South Indian kings 1000 years ago. In fact, Burma (Myanmar) was a province of British India for more than 100 years. Can India invade Myanmar on the pretext of taking back its territory? India very well can, but it wouldn't. So, China's historical claim to the Himalayan borders is rubbish.
Indian and Chinese empires coexisted peacefully for several 1000 years because of a buffer state called Tibet whose culture is more Indian than Chinese since they practiced Indian Buddhism. When China annexed Tibet in the 50's, that's when this boundary issue between these 2 ancient civilisations occured. To be frank, China is greedy and vile to do incursion on its neighbours' territories instead of being happy with what it already has.
@@KiriAatam "India can claim Pakistan"? Pakistan was founded on August 14, 1947, one day earlier than the independent India. Just because the British used to rule what is now Pakistan does not mean India has the claim to it.
@@xiuchengmu1849 Even before the Brits, Pakistan was a part of Mughal empire, and many other Islamic dynasties prior to the Mughals that ruled from present day India. Their headquarters too was Delhi centuries ago.
India can't claim Pakistan, but China can claim Tibet based on some 7th century historical Yuan dynasty? Why doesn't China claim the whole of Mongolia? Why does China claim Taiwan as its own? Taiwan has been autonomous for decades - they have their own flag and currency.
It's one rule for China but the same rule doesn't apply for others huh?!
@@KiriAatam China claims Tibet based on not only Yuan but also all dynasties ever after. Autonomous or not, Taiwan is part of Republic of China (ROC), which was succeeded by People's Republic of China (PRC).
Unlike India, China remained a legally independent country and was never fully colonized; so China has every legal and historical reason to claim what belongs to China.
@@xiuchengmu1849 I say it again India haven't had a border issue with China because Tibet acted as buffer between India and China for thousands of years until Tibet was forcibly annexed by China in 50's. Prior to that Tibet belonged to Tibetans. This is the reason why historically (prior to 20th century) India and China never fought a war and was able to thrive as 2 distinct civilisations for several 1000s of years.
China, today is at peak of its power and want to annex as much as they can before its population will get old. China has border problem at the Himalayas with India, border issue with the Russians, South China Sea dispute with several countries (at least 5), wanting to illegally annex Taiwan for decades, created disruptions in Hong Kong.
India tried its best to be friends with China, but China knows only to be a bully while at the same time it accuses US to be the same. I'm sorry to say that present day China is a greedy & illegal territory grabber of its neighbours.
39:24
Backstory: i was listening to this debate in background mode and suddenly i recalled his voice.
That guy ," how do you thing west will trust you after this to Dr.jayeshankar silenced him in Globesc forum in nebouring poland state"
😅😅
Mr.Samir Saran gave a very unique & receiving view point about Ukraine-Russia conflict which many elite intellectuals & thinkers might have missed or ignoring the real threat of strong n autocratic China.
And the other question about kissinger was very aptly answered with 2 reason and was harsh for moderator n other panellist to accept 😃😃
Well don 👏👏
I think India is a failure if you think about the level of poverty, the spread of religious fanaticism and the sheer inhumane amount of lack of hygiene in its inner cities communities.
To India, China will be alway a threat in their mind. You know why? It is because India lost a war in 1962 for less than a month. Since then, the hate is in India’s bone.
In democracy when you cannot talk about election process and votes and results and reject other views..what kind of democracy is this ?
It is an invasion in conceptual sense. But the complexity is far beyond the common sense.
Russia soon defeated in Ukraine ???
Russia already won, they are controlling Ukrainian most important regions when it comes from the economy.
80% of Ukraine income coming from those regions.
US know it, that's why they are escalate this. US is desperate now, because they underestimated Russia's military capacity.
Russia only uses about 150000 to 200000 troops in Ukraine against 650000 Ukrainian troops with western weapons.
Still Russia slowly grinding Ukrainian military azov down, and gaining more ground every day.
US want WW3, and nuclear winter. Because they can't accept loosing, that's scary.
The competition is between Meriticocry bassed political system and democracy, not Autocracy V/s Democracy. China has proved this point in favour of meritocracy.
I agree, China has proved that Autocracy isn't desirable.
You can have a democratic meritocracy.
@@jasonleetaiwan: Yes, It is possible in utopia only.
@@pardeeptandon You can combine the two. All you have to do is set minimum standards on all positions in government, and then vote them into office. That way you won't get someone like Donald Trump with no governance experience becoming president.
Yep, just like china has now. China has 98% approval rating and has the highest ranked democracy in the world, with 71% of chinese agreeing that china had the right amount of democracy in a recent latana democracy index. China ranked first in that democracy index, when ranked based on each countries citizens polled and asked if they thought their country had the right amount of
democracy.
Only Samir makes sense. The other two panelists’ comments were only rhetorics to me. Only conferences, no actions !
On the contrary his views are mostly childish and confrontational. The lady panellist despite being USAian says this debate should not be thought of as democracy vs autocracy while the Indian panellist says no it should be. Then he also said that BRICS will find it hard to act in unison or something but now BRICS is expanding next year.
Samir Saran is a delight to watch for the clarity of his thoughts and the clear articulation of his stand.
He is leading India to fight a that doesn't serve it's interest. The issue with a democracy is that once a narrative takes hold in the population, it can only elect politicians that serve that narrative. Very difficult to turn the boat around. So by his own words, they do a poor job of containing China, but yet is stuck a boat that has no other choice but containment. They have 100k troop still stuck in the mountain that probably will have to stay there forever. Meanwhile, all it's neighbors are building high speed rail. He is smart enough to be irritated about this huge problem, a rhino that you can't do anything about, but he has no solution other than digging a deeper hole. US, by the way, is in the same boat. Biden probably would have like China's help with inflation, but can't do it due to public opinion.
Clarity of his thoughts? I guess he was the most ignorant one in the panel. He said BRICS will find it difficult to be cohesive but now BRICS is expanding even further.
just saw a funny story about democracy:
A farmer asked his son before he died, "Pigs complain about poor feed, cows complain about heavy work, and chickens complain about dirty nests. What should you do?". The son said: "Change to good feed, buy more cows, clean up Chicken coop." The farmer shook his head and said. "No, don't do anything. Let them vote, let them choose you or your wife to take care of them, and let them think they are the boss”.
The same story, but this time the joke is about autocracy
The same complaints and the father said,"Don't do anything.Beat the shit out of complainers and ban all unions and other such stuff".
@@kartheeshk5519 this is the superiority of media dominant, if you follow west media, you will get this conclusion definitely. According to yearly statistics from Harvard Kennedy school, the satisfied rate of China government is above 90% and continuously increase. China is also a Tourist exporting country, more than 130million Chinese went above each year (17/18/19)before pandemic. so you called it beat the complainers, just live in your dream world and enjoy it.
because of Historical and cultural treasures, government know well "while water can carry a boat, it can also overturn it"
@@junbaosu8031 Hahahahaha now who talked about china
we are talking about autocracy here...get your facts right.
You said china
I can give you some examples like Belarus,Soviet union,Gadaffi regime,Saddam regime,North korea and the list goes on
Educate yourself.
Also the arab countries are rich because of oil money and not because of autocracy.
@@kartheeshk5519 don't forgot it defined by US, Russia and China are representatives. if US don't make enemy outside, they will face problem of improving people's life and united them.
Smh. People are not cows, pigs or chickens except in China
The Chinese political system, based on Meritocracy, has been delivering better results than any Democracy or Autocracy.
It's Meritocracy v/s Plutocracy
@@nmew6926: True
@@nmew6926 The Western democracy has always been plutocracy and it was so even as far back as ancient Rome and Greece which they often call as birthplaces of so-called democracy.
Yeah freedom of expression and all when you are discussing Russia vs ukraine crisis without Russia in it.
America is the Center piece in the Ukraine question. America has been running Ukraine since 2014.
Excellent discussion
West believe s American bully is better than Russian bully
And so does Samir saran
West democracy is all about elections. Elections are popularity contests. Someone who is popular does not mean that she or he knows how to govern. We do not elect a doctor to cure our diseases because that would be absurd. The same is true here. The set of skills needed to run a successful political campaign is totally different from the set of skills required to run a government. It is impossible for ordinary people to know who is qualified to run governments. Also, elections can easily be hijacked by big monies. It is well known that American politicians spend most their waking hours raising money and very little time listening to their voters. As a result, they are largely beholden to their large donors. Electoral democracy always ends up being plutocracy.
china not quite autocratic, xjp has to deliver performance, so he might be called 'presidential.'
and there are no democracies, possibly excepting the swiss. elective oligarchies are nothing like democracy, in as much as the voting is largely cosmetic. democracy means 'the citizens decide.' in greek. not 'politicians decide.'
They mean club, not democracy. Really, do they know?
It's dictatorship of communist party not the dictatorship of xi jingping.. there's a difference between the two
Both democracy and autocracy are same. The only difference is people vote in democratic country to choose their leaders for corporate government like US and in autocratic country like China and Russia are voted by party for the welfare of the people.
in China, the leaders start from the bottom and are voted "up" to the next higher tier by their peers. It is a pure merit system as all of them start at the bottom and have to work themselves up.
Why is there an even debate on this? Result decides. If a new form of autocracy lifts up people's quality of life, go for it. If a old form of democracy drags down people's life, object it!
Q - Did the US (NATO) direct Ukraine with money & arms to ignore the Minsk
agreements? Why did Zelenskyy do a u-turn? Why didn't NATO try with both
Ukraine & Russia to live up to Minsk?
US Rules based Order = do what we think is right and don't do what you think is right. We, we are right and not you
Samir Saran really stood out and single handedly shut the non-sense of the West and the Chinese fellow. The moderator's closing remarks was wishy washy and tried to sweep Samir's views as whataboutery. He was hurt by the candid and truthful views of Samir and given that he is a white guy, it would be difficult for him to swallow his false pride. I cant stand the expression global south or references such as the civilized world. West is not civilized, never was but might become if it adopts Hinduism!
Wonderful adventures
democracy is everywhere as Biden said..
from Sudan Africa 🌍
Sameer was excellent..
India, the birthplace of Democracy (Ref- City of Vaishali /600 BCE) Knows to well the flaws of Democrcy vs Autocracy ( Ref : Monarchies - Mauryan Empire). In Fact, here is a historic Anecdote, India's First Nuclear Test was termed "Buddha Has Smiled" comes from learning of India from the same period- There was a Democratic State run by the Licchavikas had a confict with the Kingdom of Magadha during the time of Buddha - Magadha attacked rhe Licchavikas and massceared them, the survivors ran to Buddha (as they were Buddhists) to seek counsel, It is said that Buddha sat calmly and just frowned (Hinting that Licchavikas should have been Having the strenght to defend themselves and not be a perpetual Pacifict). Thats why India's Nuclear Detterence was seens as India to deveope the Teeth to then Preach Pacifism.
India, the birthplace of Democracy??
You mean people in ancient India had electoral system and the commoners voted for who will rule them? Actually what many ignorant Indians think about democracy in ancient India more resembles today's Chinese governing system. Chanakya said that duty of the king (rulers in those times) should be the welfare of his subjects. That is what Chinese governing system does. There was no one person one vote system back then.
Controll by force will fail everybody have there own mine
Sameer saran !
It is not Autocracy vs. Democracy. The competition is between a political system governed by people selected on the basis of their ability,
called Meritocracy. Versus a system controlled by big capital, for the benefit of those with money and big corporations, called Plutocracy.
It is Meritocracy vs. Plutocracy. China has proved the point in favour of Meritocracy over Plutocracy.
Those don't understand the concept of national sovereignty should study it before confusing the definition.
Are we creating enemies by lumping countries with democracy and aristocracy? How about changing hedgemon concept and learn to trade and stop creating war and defence blocks. Security should be for all.
yes, defence should be for all, including Baltic States, Ukraine and Finland.
Strong and benign relationship between Russia and EU is totally against American pirate interests.
china: can china be sanctioned when russia is sanctioned or when russia has been sanctioned for a long time? will the us and west be able to wage two big wars immediately one after another or simultaneously, i.e. in ukraine and taiwan? the us was first to build an enormous alliance - the quad - to contain us and break us. do you expect that we will abandon an important player like russia as a partner in this situation?
Quad is a joke. Don't you see that?
US Rules based Order = do what we think is right and don't do what you think is right. We, we are right and not you
@21:12. "Exhaustive answer ..." 👌 comment by the moderator. And 🏆 to Mr. Saran.
America: china is growing to be bigger than me, let's destroy china
America's allies: we will never grow to be bigger than you boss, we will help you to destroy china at our expense😬
So true. America's so-called allies are more like it's poodle colonies. Thankfully now their economies are entering recession and economic collapse has begun. Hopefully it accelerates.
Why is the lady panelist referring from her diary ??
Mr Samir .... Makes most practical and logical points or may be his points are also bit more tilted because he has more skin in the play because he has seen what china can do to countries !!!
what does anything have to do with China?
He actually made practical and logical points because he is from the same country as you or he actually made practical and logical points? I'm asking this because most of the time our rationality gets eclipsed over emotive things.
Ridicules. USA doesn't include China in NATO, QUAD, etc and expects China to help in Ukraine - lol - first include China and then ask - lol
Samir is one smart man
he sounds salty
Only for Indians
@@verumverba5711 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@tofuyam7361 He thinks he is representing some very important country on the world stage. In truth probably nobody calls on India to resolve any international issue of any consequence perhaps if not about South Asia and even that is doubtful because USA is now shamelessly meddling in the internal affairs of Bangladesh and trying to make the opposition leader win which will be bad for India. LOL.
Club of democracies watch Sri Lanka's to suffer alone..
Let them have thier own power of confidence and respect that.
But responsible autocratic did nothing however Democratic help them as much as they can but obviously nothing is free.
Who caused it? Sri Lankan dynasty politics who took Chinese side (autocracy) and made their economy fully dependent of one country....
Now begging for democratic India's help..
I know Sri Lanka will never accept the fact and they'll say we never asked for your help and crap..
Lets be honest here, China blamed Sri Lankan govt for everything...
Imagine signing a deal of 99 years of lease of a port to China where lease documents says, even if you have money in between these years you can't pay them fully and take back the port..
At least in this debate I didn’t hear about grains Africa hungry stomach due Russia Ukraine war. Number two in our southern world we don’t have a choice like India following it’s own interest it’s either follow our footstep or the burnishment in different forms with different categories.
Considering how india and Africa was similarly put into the dirtypit back in the days...how india emerge to make a stand on its own even considering its huge population is commendable..Samir did mention about the diversion and dispersion which similarly happened with vaccinr
Samir Sir is just insane..So good
Really appreciable the viewpoints of Mr. Samir Saran...
simply biased against China🥶🤯👹👽💪
@@charlielou2280 could you please raise some points in favor of your comment? I will be happy to learn your constructive criticism.
@@sanjibpanda5304 Everything Mr Samir said is not objective rather negative views which reflects 99% Indian media. India does not have to be this way since both countries had been good and coorperative relationship for thousands of years prior the 1967 border clashes which India lost and felt humiliated to this day. For that reason she never gets over it thus creates frosty relationship which India is to lose and gain when coorperate with China. i'm from Cambodia and our government works with China and looks how Cambodian infrastructure has changed drastically for the last 3 since i last visit. Please check it out Sihanoukville if you have time. Its infrastructures would put India to shame considering how poor indian infrastructures and badly need China's help to bring them to 21 century. Long live India and China and don't forget we're all Asians and not white. Peace out!
@@sanjibpanda5304 i meant 1962 war not 1967
@@charlielou2280 Thank you. But I am still not agree with you about the Chaina's aggressive policy regarding violation of territorial integrity in the Indian soil in 1962 war. Still the same thing is going now on in Arunachal Pradesh border region. Nothing should be compromised in the cost of territorial integrity, which I think Indian govt. is now focused on.
I just didn’t found any different conversation except the samir speaking the reality.
For some reason only Samir's answers had something to think about
He said something about the BRICS but BRICS is now expanding. So he was incorrect on that point. Secondly Russia is much stronger now than when this talk show was conducted. So how are his answers have something to think about? Something to think about is how terrible people we are sending to represent us on international forums.
@@thecomment9489 Kid are u even listening to what he said. He said there's is an issue that need to be fix but whether they come to sense or not it will expand. Russia has weakened very badly now. So use your brain a bit before speaking pakistani 😂
@@blankpaper2471 blah blah blah
There’s nothing wrong by being quad. NATO, AUKUS, and 5eyes so what’s the problem for not condemning Russia invasion of Ukrain ?
us wont preaches democracy to saudi arabia or all allied middle Easter countries such a hypocracy
Wait till Saudi Arabia trade their oil in Yuan or any currency other than dollar. Then the so called human rights org will discover that this country is evil.
Same for Singapore. So long this country give US Navy port facilities and also purchase over priced US military hardware, its OK. The human rights watch only make an annual report and that's it. The report will only be shelved.
Let talk about the western aggression on Iraq Afghanistan Syria Libya .the USA and NATO are no angel . By giving weapons to Ukraine is a aggression to prolonging the war more people will die . Let talk about this ✌️
US Rules based Order = do what we think is right and don't do what you think is right. We, we are right and not you
If emperialism is not a form of autocracy ,please tell me what it is ? ??
I learn much much more with the comments than the panel above.
Sure, ship more weapons and money for hired hands to enlarge and extent the war, and blame other countries for not following their way.
Nowadays, there is no absolutely democratical or authoritarian countries (except North Korea). So If a so-called Democracy sociaty cannot dramatically improve people's life standards and an state-socialism authoritarian one can, then we should really think how to combine their two systems to maximize the benefits of humanity
Not really...democracy is a universal ideal....autocracy a means to an end.
Well. There is always evolving and balancing. Not two polar world. Utopian model is dead for democratic. Stalin and mao model is end. The middle ground like Singapore or others might be THE ONE.
@@Kevin-uv1wk singapore is autocratic
Is American democracy "working for the people"?
As an American it seems to be pretty chill so far. Don't know of a single American who doesn't believe in democracy.
Interesting.... I like the panel and varied specialisation, intellect and understanding,they bring to the table.... Mr Samir is little bit more aggressively defensive in his response .....
US = do what we think is right and don't do what you think is right. We, we are right and not you. That's our Rules based Order.
That's his baseline
Yes...i also realized after watching his numerous videos recently post Raisina!!!
Samir Saran , the successive Foreign ministry advisory secretary/Spokesperson.
Tbh he has been someone who criticized evrything in the past and now coming along the foreign ministry lines coz the govt for the first time is taking a real good foreign decision and stands in a very polemical way
perhaps I'm biased...but I love Sameer's takes..
Surely if your country’s system works for you on the whole it is a good system whatever name you choose to call it .
When your system splits the citizens in two , where the majority of the wealth goes to 1% of the population , where kids are not even save going to school , where minorities are mistreated and abused everyday , where homelessness and poverty is exploding and where citizens can’t even expect basic health care . You can give that system the prettiest name but it doesn’t mean it’s any good .
Mr Huang was invited to threaten India about coming war. But Mr Sarin gave excellent answers as did Ms Racheal.
jo bhi dikha khaletey hai
What we need to do to achieve democracy is improve
the electoral process,tighten voter eligibility and improve civic education.
Humanity and peace suffer in this Jurassic world.😥😢
26:05 so trueee 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
Where is Prof. John Mearsheimer????????????
At 39.00 he is the same guy who had asked 'Polemical' question to S. Jaishankar in Bratislawa forum and had gotten same 'spirited' rebuttel.
LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO LOVE AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW AND WHY PEOPLE FIND TIME TO HATE OR QUARREL.
That will depends on if it is monetarily beneficial to western corporations before politicians agree to it
To be fair to China you should invite the Chinese counterpart in the discussion like Mr. Victor Gao. who might have a different views, this is a pointless discussion in light of visavis China. Simply double usual standard trying to bash China. Peace out!
Agree.
US Rules based Order = do what we think is right and don't do what you think is right. We, we are right and not you
There is a fundamental difference between Chinese thinking and that of the West. To the Chinese, the objective of what is right or wrong, is less important than what will bring harmony. So the root of the conflict is primary but the West, tends to refer the breakdown as the outcome of those events, just preceding. In the case of the current Ukrainian War, Western logical thinking is that it was by Russia invaded Ukraine. Chinese thinking is that Ukraine was posturing to enable NATO, to have a defining advantage to dominate Russia into the future. The Chinese thinking is that Russia is prudent to nip this existential threat before Russia succumbs to growth of its adversary.
The scars in the thinking of Samir, stem from humiliation of the loss in 1962 war between India and China. This could’ve been avoided if Nehru had been competent and not fooled himself and the Indian nation into
accepting his own unilateral idea of the border boundary, without consultation and agreement with China
In recent years, India and China had agreed on certain protocols in behaviour when their troops were in close proximity and India has taken these as intrinsic terms in defining the border boundary. According to Indian claims, China had violated these agreement, and it is probable and possible that Chinese troops had
violated these agreements, based upon markers which had not been geologically surveyed and recorded in
cartographical document.
There is a fundamental difference in Indian and Chinese thinking which can be resolved only when agreed
boundary, is supported by cartography. The stability of the visible landscape in this remote region is
subject to weather condition, high up in the Himalayan mountain ranges.
Of the 14 neighbours who have had dispute on land border boundaries with China, India is the only country that hasn’t been resolved amicably.
//To the Chinese, the objective of what is right or wrong, is less important than what will bring harmony.//
Very incorrect on this line. The West doesn't have any concept of right and wrong, only of Western supremacy. And to establish that supremacy they of course need to call themselves as right and all others wrong.
Small group of people have billions and all the power…
What’s the difference? One side is better at tricking you into believing they’re doing good for all?
How are there billionaires on both sides!?
I'm doing my best to understand " some " of Stephen Wolframs work on cellular automata . It's a evolving interface between computers and the natural world that in time may be predictive and lay the foundations for emergent phenomena in machines to approach consciousness. My point...the geopolitics taking shape has similar characteristics . We're functions of programing in our response to the natural world and we're doing our best to survive in a world where natural selection is still very much in play. I think our minds can rise above the natural world and provide intelligent solutions to our needs rather than be victims of our emotional predilection to lash out at environments that are constructed and manipulated to produce outcomes. Are we wise enough to do the right things...
I think we're getting there.
in india we prefer to eat lentil and rice mostly... like our food we are very simple... is that cellualr biology?
@@yogicbody
Cellular biology is an adaptation to your environment. As you age in this world your psychology grows with your body and each influence the other right into maturity , procreation ( when you pass on your genes) ,old age and death , where your life's journey influenced those closest to you. The culmination is information and directly impacts your culture as your culture influenced you now...
In other words....maybe :)
I do not think Life is about DEMOCRACY instead I think Life is about different cultures being celebrated by the world community instead of the RACISM that I see in this conversation is dominated by.
The Chinese need to watch these snakes!
By snakes you mean CCP?😁🤣
How should this debate should be seen or analysed now?
BRICS is now expanding next year.
China Russia trade is at all time high.
The world is de-dollarising for good.
Western economies have all declined.
Russia would not have invaded Ukraine should the US didn't have Pivoting to Asia policy.
Finishing off my comment :A case for a caring concerned with fairness and a more equitable distribution of wealth could be made for an Autocratic style of government.
Samir has no problem with putting the lives of "chinese" looking indians who live on the chinese borders at risk in the event of a war with China. Samir is suffering from the same problem as most of the armchairs experts in Luyens Delhi who have never interacted or asked the people whose lives will be most affected in the case of a war with China or any other country.
The success of a country is not dependent on the any plotical systems of autocracy or democracy, in reality it is competency of the leaders. Competent leaders are selected out of meritocracy systems. China never had speak or did anything to suggest that the west is their enemy, on the contrary it is the west and allies is acting to contain China. On statement that China is a threat, this is illusion created, please name one war that China had initiated other than the border war with Vietnam in 1979 due to Vietnamese aggression on Cambodia. However, on the contrary the west had invaded and at wars with numerous countries for centuries.
Toronto
I found myself responding against my own point :)
I need to get out more...
I wish there is only one country in the world only and only one government of the whole world to be chosen from around the world and I think that is time to sit down and talk about how to proceed.
it's not autocracies vs. democracies, it's Meritocracies vs. Plutocracies. Apparently Meritocracies work better than Plutocracies.
Debate on
Autocratic
Vs
Democratic
Is the topic
To understand
Polivy of
Government
Of
Each
Country of
World
For military, economic and political, hegemony no one states would intervene, in other states.