UA Apollo vs the Competition - Converters Only Discussion
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I went from rme to uad and have been pleased. They’re pretty close with the edge going to uad because of their rich history in the business. If you can’t make great music with uad, you’re the problem not your conversion.
I went through the video(s) Barry's talking about there's multiple! The reason in the end for the Mixing Music Analog guy getting rid of his Apollo's is because he can get back some cash from selling them and switching to the cheaper Presonus. I just wanted to say Barry makes it seem like a choice based on quality, it wasn't, the conclusion is they're both great. There was literally NO difference in the mixes. I'm planning to go from an old firewire RME to an Apollo maybe x8 and I think it's a great choice, and will give me access to the UAD plugin platform, there's a couple of plugins I really love from them, I don't need the whole suite of plugins to be happy there
He didn't only get rid of the Apollos because he could get back cash, but also because he didn't noticed any difference in Conversation...
Hey Barry, I just want to thank you for taking the time and effort for putting out the information that you give for guys like me who can use direction in understanding what works and what doesn’t. I, for one appreciate the content of your videos and I say keep ‘em coming Thanks again
Apollo conversion sounds great to me, they are about due for a new gen, I am sure it will improve again
A year later... still waiting for UA hardware updates
Thank you my man 👍
I got a Presonus 1824c after hearing a comparison between it, RME and UAD.
The only reason I think I will upgrade is when I go over 16 in/out.
Nowadays, there are no more excuses, just get anything and get on with it.
The more I dug into audio quality, comparing gear, hardware, software, different preamp, mics, converters and such, the more I believe that in 2022 it doesn’t really matter which audio interface you’re using. As long as it’s a decent medium range audio interface ($500 and higher), the converters will be good enough. Anything above the medium range will fall into the law of diminish returns.
The most important elements for recording:
Audio Source > Room > Mics > Preamp > Audio Interface
The most important elements for listening:
Ears > Room > Speaker > Audio interface
In both case, the audio interface come last and have a very small impact in overall quality. And this is only for the pure quality point of view, I don’t even talk about “creativity and production” values here. Don’t forget the tons and tons of album that were recorded on far less good gear back in the ‘60s, ‘70s, ‘80s or even ‘90s… Most of new medium range converters in Focusrite, Motu, Presonus, and such will be better than the old “high-end” converters we used in the ‘90s or ‘00s. Of course on higher range such Apollo, Antelope, RME, etc… you will get better converters, better clocking, etc… but the difference won’t be night and day, and won’t be as important as we can get between modern gear vs. old high-end gear. It shows how technologies evolved those last decades and made great gear accessible to more people.
Personally I’m looking at the new SSL Big SiX mixer that can replace audio interface, monitoring system, outboard gear. It’s 4 Pre with EQ & Comp, 4 Stereo Channels, 1 G Comp, 16 channels mix down and dual speaker, dual cue headphone… all that for $3k. And you can get two for $6k, cascade them to have 8 Pre with EQ & Comp, 8 stereo channels, 2 G Comp, 32 Channels mix down and 32 I/O in Logic with aggregate I/O… that’s a lot of features, if you want to work in Hybrid (ITB & OTB) workflow. No need for UA DSP…
My 2¢
When you get into this level at this point and time you're splitting hairs.
@@daviddavis9835 Marketing works to separate us from our money. Our time and money would be better spent making better music. But is a lo too fun to get new gear.. GAS!!!
Good 2 channel converters start around $100. If you spend more than that you should be getting more Utility and Versatility for your money unless you are buying purely for Boutique grade Sound Quality.
You're not wrong mate but you're also wrong :). Try listening to something like RME (any really but to heighten the contradiction maybe something like old like Fireface 800 or similar) on speakers like PSI A25m. Compare that to Crane Song Solaris or Avocet II or perhaps Mytek 8x192 or Burl DAC on the same speakers. You'll immediately notice that the Fireface is the bottleneck. Can you make records on it? Yeah. Would you want to listen to it day in/out? No. Not after you heard something like Mytek or Crane Song. Same goes for UAD et al. Mytek for example sounds like good, transparent, 30ips tape. It's that good. Nothing RME or UAD make can match that. But yeah you can work with it no problem. It won't get in the way of you composing your next track.
@@Screaming-Trees been there, done that... over 30 years of working in Studio here, used plenty of high end top dollars gear, and now I can tell that if you keep focusing on those converters, you clearly missing the whole point, missing the forest behind the tree...
Thanks Barry. I think most people will agree with the following: Use what works for you, use what you can afford, use what you have.. Like anything technical, you can go DEEP into the rabbit hole. Whether its Interfaces, DACs, Cameras, knitting needles (pop tarts) etc.. You get the point. Use what you can afford to create your passion's masterpiece. I will say, all of this stuff is fun to discuss and waste money on. I do it myself, but when we step back and contemplate, it is not the converters (or gear in general), that hinders our creativity. We can argue, the pursuit of the latest/greatest gear DOES hinder our creativity.. Keep up the great videos.. Speaking of GAS, just upgraded my interface to an RME UCX II this year. I am enjoying it so far and anticipate it will last me years..
Man this is exactly the discussion I was hoping for!
Happy to help!
Just joined your channel…very insightful and helpful. Thank you!
Thanks Barry, for the informative as well as conversational videos.
I own an Apollo Duo (rack mount). The UAD business model of emulating vintage analog equipment was a concept that I was persuaded to buy into at my local Guitar Center. Now, a few years later after using it as the only interface to my Logic Pro DAW, I find myself using no UAD effects plugins at all (I have bought many) except the UAD pre-amp plugins. I prefer to leave effects like chorus, reverb, compression etc. to tweak in Logic Pro during the mix process. I am a total amateur/rookie (imbecile) to sound recording, but that is the 'workflow' that I prefer.
Even using just UAD pre-amps to process microphone and electric guitar inputs presents an issue for me - for instance, the Neve 1073 pre-amp plugin is so accurately emulated, you even get the hum and background noise of the actual device. I then find myself suppressing with a noise gate in the DAW during mixing. I must be an idiot - going about this totally wrong, but I paid good $$ for the plug-in only to suppress it in the mix.
Thank you for raising the question regarding using DSP and it's ongoing irrelevance (obsolescence) in the face of faster CPU's like M1.
Hi Barry, thanks for your awesome tips...
I have a question, have you bothered with BitStream/DSD audio?
Are there any DSD audio interfaces or converters on the market?
Great as always Berry! When it comes to gear people tend to use it as a status symbol and hear with their eyes instead of their ears. There's so much more in the chain that makes a bigger difference than converters especially nowadays. Like in the mixing analog videos I couldn't tell a difference and I'm sure all of us that actually listend didn't hear a difference but we all thought there was going to be a big difference between the two. I really like the presonus Stuff it's incredible value for the price and the studio live eco system is absolutely amazing! I use studio one so obviously I'm a little biased but I really try to listen with my ears instead of my eyes. If someone can name what interface/gear in a blind test without knowing what was used I want to shake their hand because they are super human at Hearing.
Berry ? its Barry😂
Although I'm already invested in UAD, I really appreciate this video and you sharing your insight on this topic. Definitely going to check out more of your content. Cheers 🙏🏽
Thanks for all of the great content Barry! Started watching over the last year and really have picked up a lot. I purchased a used Behringer X32rack to get more comfortable with our church's setup and have inevitably started going down the audio engineering rabbit hole. Looking to add a higher quality desktop interface in the future that could be expanded even further down the road. That said, your recent high-end/mid-level interfaces videos have been great. The Audient ID22/44 and Cranborne ADAT500 look like solid, converter conscious, upgrade path solutions (especially if I want to experiment with the 500 series stuff). But I also have an eye on the Presonus Quantum interfaces.
Thanks so much for your perspective Barry!
I've had an entry level interface for a long time. Focusrite scarlet 2i2. And 2 years ago I got the apollo twin x thunderbolt 3. Wich have given me so much problems to use, since I'm a windows user. There are problems with the driver. Some noises and routing issues. Now that you mention the presonus quantum, I wanted to know what are your thoughts about the focusrite Clarett. And that presonus. I was able to listen to a big quality difference between the apollo and the scarlet. But that apollo just doesn't work for me. Any reviews on the Clarett and/or the quantum.
Thank you
The SSL BigSix has me thinking of selling off my Apollo Twin Quad and a bunch of UA plugins. But I don’t want to lose money on that swap. I’m also looking forward to the new pro level Mac Mini or iMac in (hopefully!) March ‘22.
hey Barry! just a question - considering the chip situation in the world (or the lack of) and overall increase in prices (dsp cards like apollo) do you think newer higher-end cards are gonna get more and more expensive, or are they always gonna stay in the similar price range? does that mean investing now in the sound cards/ convertors is not a good idea or the opposite?
David Vignola is awesome. Great teacher for beginners.
The presonus tb3 interfaces are actually the fastest ones around I think they sound great. My studiolive 32sc is also great. But I do love my x series apollos.
I have the studio live 32s and an Apollo twin duo and Apollo x16
Love the video Barry. I'm a long time UAD and Presonus user. I have yet to hear the magical converter difference and IMO. The Quantum line covers all my live and studio needs and UAD fills in the real time plug-in gap. As I consider updating to M1 level chip sets. The idea of DSP becomes less and less ideal. My Softube software and hardware solutions work well as alternative future solution to replace my DSP needs.
RME all day for me.
great for usb but also bottlenecked by it...
@@kevinwilliams6006 Nonsense
I have the ucx which is all good for me expansion wise but it's still held to usb transfer speeds. Though usb is tried and true, it stillis much slower than the other options.
@@kevinwilliams6006 this is not at all true, it all comes down to the drivers, and RME writes the best drivers. Some of the lowest latency around and still on USB.
For budget AD/DA RME is the best 💕
Barry I have an Apollo Twin Mk2 with Ssl Uc1 and UF8. How would you run Apollo plugins and the Ssl features via Logic Pro X? However with only two Mic Pre on the twin I would like more tracking capability offered by the Apollo 8x, but was thinking of just getting a Apollo Octo as my 2017 MacBook Pro 15 (16gb and 1TB ssd), gets overloaded. What are your thoughts. Thanks.
First time viewer to your channel. I wish to see more about AD/DA and DSD or DXD in the future. From the country where I lived (Burma) is hard to see those technologies especially Audio Over IP
Thank you, this is really useful information. I Would be really interested in knowing your opinion I had the original idea of buying an all UAD ecosystem and before doing so I’m learning what is out there recently. I’ve been out of the game for quite some time and wonder how much CPU power do I need for my recording studio in the future I’d be interested in recording drums maybe but right now mainly guitar pedal board, fractal and acoustic instrument potentially using at first superior drummer 3.
The question is how much power should I need in cpu and hard drive?
Should I consider an all UAD cause of their DSP according to you I’d better put my money into upgrading my computer to a Mac with M1 or M2 but much ram, cpu power would you recommend?
Thank you
Great channel Barry! Question, do you think having a Midas M32r for live capturing and recording it through pro tools or UAD with a satellite OCTO, Apollo X and X8 with almost 65 plugins from UAD would be beneficial? I have those options available but not sure which route to go with. Any answers would be appreciated.
I've been considering this for some time. Have tracked on m32s and preamps are quite good but I don't think quite in the realm of dedicated 'studio' gear. That being said I havnt done any extensive side by side comparisons. I do think you get some serious bang for buck especially if you use them for live. Hell I've even got a little XR18 I use for small events Setup in my studio now. Noisy preamps but damn useful & a great little routing software interface. I run rehearsals on it, track basic stuff, save and share scenes for set-ups elsewhere. An M32r is a better quality version of that. You can even use it as a control surface. Control on all over your studio or event via Ipad. It's not going to bring you an Apogee or Prism level sound (you better have a good room, mics & monitors first) but again a super useful system that ticks pretty much all the boxes. I'm still stewing over it myself....
To clarify I was assuming the board was simply usb in to the computer, handling A/D etc
If I wanted to buy a $10,000 lavry gold converter for mastering purposes.. how does that fit into the routing? i would need a regular converter as well correct? i am in the process of buying tens of thousands if not a hundred thousand dollars worth of hardware but i dont really know where to start.. i know i could just hire a mastering engineer ext but i want to learn.
Hey Barry, I really enjoy your work here. Question: if I have excellent BAE and SSL preamps already and don’t use interface pres, is there a best choice for an interface for a guy like me? I want the best converters period. I don’t need dsp. I don’t need preamps.
Thanks
I watch his videos like a week ago and I think what he did was very good with the comparisons he did. He did a eye test and a ear test and honestly you couldn’t see a much difference to be hyped about with the Apollo. Thank you for the video and continue the great content for people like me who are looking for truth. And I love the apple stuff but I must say pc have been in that level for a while now. I have friends who will never go back to apple because the price is like half and the systems are way faster.
Do you think the Apollo Solo has the same converters as the X series Apollo Twins and up, although it’s at 118 db dynamic range and almost the same specs as the Mark II Apollo Twin, I’m wondering if the Solo’s converters got upgraded when they discontinued the Arrow.
Great tips and info! I've beed a long time Apollo twin user and I now own the the 6X I'm not happy with the sound of the converters they seem to have a light hard muddy distortion sound when I tried a few different audio interfaces the muddy distortion went away I love the UAD Apollo plug-ins zero latency etc... I'm thinking of getting a Burl Audio B2 Bomber ADC 2-channel AD Converter and bypassing the Apollo 6X converters. This is my home studio I'm only tracking one or two tracks at a time. Cubase pro, Apollo 6X, LA 610 mic pre, MacBook pro I'm also getting a Apple Mac-book Pro M1 Max 16" Space Gray 10/32C 64GB RAM 2TB SSD and a BAE Mic Pre & EQ w/ PS. Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated Thanks. 🙂
Great conversation, great topic.
Had a feeling you were going to reference that video. I have both quantum’s and one modded by BLA. I can ensure they sound amazing at the price
I bought an Apollo X8 a few years back, and it works. Looking back, I had no idea how much sizzle they use to sell their steak. Fact is, It gets the job done, but I have a friend With the Focusrite Red something or another and I wish I bought that. Similar price point but that thing is so freaking clean it is ridiculous. Seemed just better all around to me... And you don't constantly fight off the advertising with UA. They really just bombard you with the next plug in etc etc. I will keep what I have because money, lol, butI jumped in too fast for sure.
I sold my Apollo x8p and x16 and got a Presonus StudioLive Series III 32s plus a Burl B32, and a 500 series rack with a few preamps with the proceeds. Sounds just as fantastic, have plenty of great plugins with Studio One Pro, and now have a physical mixer and 32 channel DAW controller.
UAD just does not seem worth the price once you get over the "hype" of how good they are.
I want to upgrade my audio interface from Audient iD4 previous gen .... My choices are UAD Apollo Solo or Antelope Audio Zen Go or Apogee Duet 3... which one should I buy ? or do you suggest some other interface ??? It would be great help .
Love your channel is the apollo x6 the same sound quality as the apollo twin x ? There a sale ending today were you get a free L22 with a purchase of a Apollo rack so im making sure if i buy a x6 ill have the same quality as a apollo twin x or apollo x4
I am looking to break into the film recording sound business in my local area. I have a lot of older rack units from my days as a musician. I really do not need more than two inputs for a field recording unit or two. I had planned on just removing my memory stick from the recorder for a lossless transfer of files from a unit to my laptop for processing. (De noise etc.) Does a DSP based UA Apollo help with the processing load away from my limited memory Laptop while using plug ins? I am really taken by Izotope RX and am considering a new DAW to access its power.
I had already seen that series of videos you referenced and he does make a very good point about the presonus units
Can I use UAD Apollo Twin and Antelope Galaxy 32 interfaces linked up together through the optical? Just so I can use the Galaxy as the I/O Host (conversion) and UAD twin to use UAD's plugins powered with the Apollo's dsp..
You said it yourself, but I think it is worth repeating: Presonus has come a long way. I've heard of some pros using some of their converters when they need to add digital I/O to their primary rig. I'd also say that converters have come a long way and there isn't much of a difference in most cases (and in some cases it's the exact same converters in different interfaces). I haven't heard that Presonus unit in particular, but I'm sure it's fine. I am less a fan of the Focusrite stuff I've used, again the pure digital conversion is probably good, but their hardware (especially their interface preamps) have a tone that I don't care for. I'm happy with my Apollo x8p (granted I got a steal on a used one, but still). It gives me 6x on the DSP + quality conversion in a 1U (well 2, if you count the space above for heat) rack unit. I've had great success with it. I've got a 9th gen i9 and I can comfortably mix a 96kHz session without DSP, but I like a few of their plugins, so being able to run them is convenient.
i had to 16.4.2 both went bad i will not pour any money on presonus products again .I do have an ADL600 the old one made in usa that works flawlessly
I got to say... You just have that "IT" factor for making videos! Awesome! People can't help but like and watch you!
I appreciate that!
Ok So I have UAD Apollo Twin USB the sound in DAW under Windows 10 is not very massive, the kick is "narrow" not punchy, In Windows 7 the sound was great .... the same UAD drivers version.... Is there any solution in Windows 10 to improve sound quality in DAW ?( I am using FL Studio 20.7. Producer Edition) Do you know any service pack update to windows 10 or what?
I have Apollo 8 just wondering (because I still learning a lot) what are the best converters out there because I hear a lot of people say one product is great and then another isn’t, just wondering what your thought is
I have a question. How many round trips of conversion is possible before introducing sound quality issues when coming-out of the box to process through hardware and then back in to the box again?
For example, Vocals out of interface (digital to analog conversion) to hardware compressor and back in (analog back to digital conversion). If your running Vocals, Bass, Stereo Guitars, Piano etc all out individually for processing and then your also running your entire mix back out again on the master bus for processing Is all this conversion doing more harm than good? Not to mention mastering which will be another round of conversion if using outboard.
That depends on the quality of your interface.
Great video Barry. I agree for those who are not already on the UAD platform should seriously consider whether or not to jump on board at this time based on many points you made. I would like share my perspective from a recent studio upgrade I am in the midst of now. Hopefully, it might help some of your viewers, who could be in a similar situation as me. I am moving from a Mac Pro 12 core (2010) to a brand new 2021 MacBook Pro 14" with the M1 Pro processor. As you have pointed out, these new computers are inclreadibly powerful and can run tons of native plugins, that in 2022 are very competitive quality wise with UAD. I had to have new converters to utilize my new MacBook Pro (coming over from an Apogee Rosetta 800 with an old Apogee Symphony card system), so I had to take some serious thought on my strategy. Being invested in UAD plugins (which I still love), I was not willing to completely give them up. I elected to get the Apollo Twin X as somewhat of a dongle to keep my UAD plugins along with a Focusrite ISA 828ii with the AD card. It allows me to have 8 additional mic pres, and the AD card allows me to patch in outboard gear as inserts. That way I wouldn't be overly invested in UAD hardware if I ever decided to go another route. I realize I could have purchased a UAD satellite and different (maybe better converters), but I have been intrigued sometime now with Universal Audio's mic pre modeling and tracking through their plugins. This is the biggest reason I got the Apollo Twin X. So I could explore these models. In my experience I am amazed with these models! I realize outboard hardware (mic pres, compressors, eq) have an edge but by how much? I have always wanted an API channel strip. I bought the UAD software version for $119 and am quite impressed with it. And I can run it tracking and after the fact in my mixes. Also, I am really enjoying console. It reminds me of the old days when I used hardware mixers. I am seriously weighing the benefits of having everything in the box verses buying more and more outboard gear. I am also watching where the mic modeling technology is going. At the end of the day, when someone listens to my work, will they know whether or not I was using software or hardware? Just providing some additional perspective. Thanks for what you are doing! Great work! Sorry for the long message!
SRSLY TLDR AF!! ;)
I read your reply. I work in the box. I love the work flow. I love not having to buy & maintain expensive hardware, pretty much because it's super expensive & I have other things I have to spend money on unfortunately. I'm looking for the ultimate in the box experience & have friends running uad. Not heard too many bad things (RME reviews seem flawless). The M1 mac seem to offer the total in box mixing performance & seems to render the dsp cards redundant. I am used to that work flow though too like you mention & so also looking for the best way forward. Was considering an Midas M32r digital mixer. Maybe the best of both worlds?
I'm one of the people wanting to upgrade my interface for more inputs. My focusrite 2i2 does a good job for a beginner. Now that I have some time doing this I want to upgrade my setup. So, with DSP onboard I purchased the Apollo twin for that reason. It arrived today and havent had the time to set up yet. But, here's my confusion, the marketing hype I hear makes me indecisive for any product these days. Some don't even disclose any info on there devices and consumers have to make informed decisions on the hype. In fact everything is hyped up these days. I have to get larger boots. Love the work, Barry that your doing, thanks for your the studio talk.
I'm thinking of going cranborne audio and getting some real analog units to go with it... nearly got an X6 with the free sat offer a couple of years ago but it got cancelled due to the factory fire.
I made the switch to an Apollo about 2 years ago, for me it was a good switch. Of course I don’t use a lot of UAD plugins, I have a hybrid setup, but the conversion at least for my setup got better with the Apollo. Yes I believe there’s is a lot of hype surrounding the Apollo interface and sadly a lot of people won’t work with you if you don’t have an Apollo in your setup. I have friends with superior AD/DA interfaces but honestly it’s very hard to tell. I always liked apogee and focusrite and if I had to switch the Apollo I wouldn’t get another one. I like a lot of other options but again, people in my city won’t take you seriously if don’t have an Apollo in your rack so you have to have something UAD in your studio 🤷🏻♂️
What city are you from?
@@mrflynn01 +1
Hi - how do you feel the Apollo x rack compares sonically to the avid carbon and which do you prefer? Thanks
Carbon no question
That Presonus Quantum 4848 looks very appealing, especially since its 32 analogue I/O...although they're DB25, which adds to the cost.
Anyone (MacOS) running the Quantum with a UAD Apollo? I am not thinking about ditching mine since I like to have the opportunity to track through UAD plug ins.
I would just assume aggregate device would be the trick, but assuming is the mother of...So do they work together and does the direct monitoring still works with next to 0 latency?
Cheers.
Is Monterey my problem? Is that why I'm having so much trouble with projects not wanting to open without a pop up box saying Im overloaded, and its going to remove one or more of my UAD plugins in order to open and play.
I have a Apollo 4x Quad AND a OCTO Satellite!!! I never used to have this issue with my Intel Mac using Big Sur or prior.
I'm inclined to agree with one of the commentators who said that into todays market; considering all things. How music is made and consumed; most is going to be about preference. I think the conversation is amazing. I find the biggest issue that most have with the Apollo is that they're tracking at -18dBFS which I think stems from ProTools being calibrated to this value OTB. Apollo units allow you to set the converters to -20/-24dBFS. Which must be taken into accountability when listening for the accurate conversation and representation of the stereo field.
Also... UAD Spark is a thing.
I just purchased a studio desk and want to buy a studio interface rack for my desk. Which would you recommend? I have the new M1 MacBook Pro..and I’m looking to spend no more than $2600. I’m wanting something for clear vocals..I prefer a lighter clean sound than a warm closed in sound
RME Fireface UFX+
@@BarryJohns is thunderbolt better than USB?
@@SundayVibesmusic if they are both the latest versions, then either is fine. If on a Mac go Thunderbolt, PC USB C
what do you think of the RME UFX 3 ?
The price difference between the boxes is insane. I just want some top quality conversion and good connectivity at that price point. Which also make me wonder what is Apogee up to? Feel like they have been quiet for a while and don’t get mention much on this Chanel. Great on point content as always.
My Rosetta KICKED ASS, but that was 20 years ago. There was a world of difference with my m audio conversion and the apogee. The m audio I felt like was a pair of glasses with mud on them in comparison. Fast forward to 2016 or 2017, I got a presonus studio 192. There was a difference but couldn’t call one better than the other. Prosumer grade stuff has come a long way.
Apogee has to have something masterful coming. Learning from the Apollo & Carbon, 32/386 , 9.1 AMBEO , 11.1 ATMOS, etc
I agree...I feel like Apogee should have something in a 1 RU form factor right in that $1k-1.5k price range to compete with the MOTU and FocusRite Clarett+ units. Like a USB-C version of the Ensemble.
what do you think about the motu ultralite mk5?
What high end audio interface you recommend?
Thank you for the video. I agree about the Apollo conversions, But I’m also not trusting of the presonus preamps. They are good and they are clean but my experience with them has been there of demo studio quality. With the quantum maybe they have improved? I decided to go with the Audient ID 14 MKII and the Audient ASP 800 Optical eight channel expansion unit, But there are so many high-quality non-DSP options as you mentioned. RME, Antelope, And SSL all have amazing affordable options as long as you have a CPU power for your plug-ins. Thank you again for the video. I always learn something new
I have a question for you Barry. First a little background.
I would consider myself an intermediate to high end user having been recording and engineering since the late 70's, mostly but not completely, in the numerous home studios I have had over the years. I did pro level FOH live sound throughout the 90's. I started recording with tape and grew with technology getting my first DAW in 2007.
I have plenty of mid to high end mic preamps Focusrite ISA428, API A2D, etc. all with digital I/O. I'm looking to add a BAE 1073 preamp at some point. I have a RME Fireface UC interface I upgraded to from a Scarlett 18i20. I am happy with the RME but it is old technology. I can hear a miniscule difference between the 18i20 and the RME but it's very very small. I don't need an interface with mic preamps and was wondering if you knew of anyone making an interface without them, that has next level conversion, with 8 channels of analog and digital I/O? I would rather spend my money on conversion than mic pre's. I don't need them.
Thanks. I love your channel and watch the new videos every time one comes out.
Although both of these are more I/O than you mention, but I’d consider the Motu 16a or Presonus Quantum 48/48. If wanting even better conversion and more potential expandability, consider the Focusrite Red 8line or 16line. The Ees series are their pro units and built like tanks with amazing specs.
@@BarryJohns Thank you Barry.
Let me ask this. I have used the RME UCX since 2017, it's even gone to live gigs with me, frightening i know, and it's never given me anything but perfection. I don't track vocals, or drums...sometimes guitars, depends on the song. Basically i have one analog synth. The kicker is i have superior D/A conversion via Dangerous Music Convert 2. So going out to monitors i'm obviously in mastering grade territory. I have outboard gear, and herein lies the question. Is the RME A/D D/A conversion of the RME alone good enough for my 500 racks, synthesizer? would you leave this setup alone?
Defiantly
sir I want to upgrade my audio interface I have focusrite 2i2 I want to get in mixing mastering . I need budget friendly audio interface which help me to listen my mixes properly I doing good with my 2i2 but I need to upgrade. in future which help me to add some analogy gears too and i have tc finalizer too i never use it but want to see how it will sound on master.
So what do you think about buying used apollo 8 silver with thunder bolt cards. Right before the pandemic started I purchased both of them. Im coming from a 002 black lion audio set up. I mostly track drum machine and keyboard
Unless you are already invested in UAD plugins, you can get a much better IO. He are they asking
Thanks! this video was so needed. By the way does this apply to the lower end UAD devices as well. Don’t want to buy a device for the plugins unless the converters themselves are great in the first place.
As to the lower end, I’d say no, they are certainly competitive in that range for sure.
@@BarryJohns So would you say that something as low down in the hierarchy as the UAD Solo is worth it for the conversion alone. Thanks much for the reply!
@@accentontheoff As for conversation, yes it is. That said, you have limited IO, as well as limited DSP. If you plan to track through plugins it will be fine, but mixing, not so much. If you go this route, it makes sense to buy or subscribe to their Native Plugins. They have a deal right now for $99 for a year subscription and I think they still have a big sale on purchasing native plugins.
@@BarryJohns Thanks that sounds like a plan. Right now I just want substantially superior conversion and “audio quality” than my Scarlett. As long as I get that I am happy. As to the plugins I don’t plan to use the UAD ones, the idea is to work with the Logic plugins at first and later (or sooner) try a third party one like you suggested.
What do you recommend then for a ADDA 16 in/outs?
Focusrite Red 16line, Lynx Aurora N 16, and the new Presonus Quantim 48/48 looks promising.
I'm with the crowd and want the absolute best that I can afford but a great performance into a ok interface (quite a few fairly good ones these days) will beat a crappy performance into a great interface any day of the week. Capture great performances and you'll be a happy camper. I have been using a Presonus Firestudio Mobile into a firewire card for years and still have it, in fact I'm gonna keep it. Also have a UAD 2 card with EMT Plate, EMT Delay and Oxide Tape which I love. Just bought a UAD Apollo Solo which I also think I'm gonna love. Capture inspiration. A great interface can't polish a turd.
Very interesting video Barry. I´m a Apollo X4 User/Satellite Octo. I agree, that DSP for Mixing is over. But whats with tracking? What i still like is to engage a 1073 UAD Neve Plugin as the first step in the singlechain, to give the tracking some of flavour. I don´t know any other system, where i can do this. Or, i have to buy a similar, more cheaper interface and buy some phyiscal micpres. Or maybe i don´t know yet, where is a good alternative to UAD. Again: I´m talking about tracking. Thanks and greetz. Carsten ✌🏼
Hi Barry can you please give me your opinion I do respect it highly. I have been going back an forth with so many about DAWS an which is best when it comes to mix down. Do you have any advice on this topic is there a best DAW for mixing?
That’s one heck of a question that frankly can be difficult to answer, so much of this is personal preferences.
That said, Protools is the best over all for mixing and editing, that said, I cannot recommend it as I am very against the way they charge as well the cost of their DAW.
Cubase is an excellent DAW
LOGIC is an excellent DAW
My gut says Studio One, I recently bought it, but have not really tested it yet.
Most of this on how good is the audio editing side of the DAW. All the major ones can handle mixing tasks fairly equally.
Logic is a hellva DAW for $200!!!
does the apollo twin duo mk 1 sound bad?
If you are a PC head the Apollo is not your best choice, you better get Antelope audio or any other interface, i tried it and it was a was the most stressful gear I’ve ever bought and my question was should I change my laptop to be able to use a new device, I decided to return it and rest my case with antelope audio and keep my peace of mind .
Excellent video Barry! Like you, I have married into the AVID ecosystem..(eg S4, Studio MTRX and HDX)
Which converters better than apollo twin x (in this range)
Finally someone that admits that UA Conversion sucks for its price. Got a Symphony + an Internal UAD Quad PCI. Outstanding :D
I'm totally with you that we don't really need DSP anymore, but: I'm about to pick up an Antelope Discrete 4 Synergy Core, because for its price it seems MUCH better in a) conversion, b) preamp quality, and c) latency than anything else. I would be happier getting no DSP and either saving some money or getting more preamps, but unfortunately I can't find anything else comparable around the price. Would love other suggestions (and don't bother telling me about the Presonus Quantum, I don't like the pres on that, they sound lifeless).
Have you looked at RME? Checks all your boxes. Honestly if you’re really looking for great preamps, go outboard anyway. No interface will give you want an 1073 is (unless you do the UA unison thing).
I know Apollo’s aren’t top tier conversion, i have an X6 and decided to try out the Synergy Core, to see if the conversion was better. I was very unimpressed, it didn’t match the hype. Compared to the X6, it sounded grainy (to my ears), with a hyped high end so I returned it, and kept the X6.
Apogee duet 3 vs the Apollo Twin? What’s your thoughts.
May I ask why you are not considering a SSL? Type big six for example... Its not a traditional interface, but it does do that job and you get the comp, preamps, and eq in the price...
I have a first gen Apollo Twin, it sounds great but you have to connect the D/A’s to monitor station because it doesn’t push monitors well. So coming from the same Apollo monitoring sounds much better going to a monitoring station with a subwoofer. I have a million dollar sound🙌🏽
Now a days it aint the gear its the ear! You can get a great sound from "mid level" equipment. My apollo twin works and sounds great. If it aint broke dont fix it 🤷🏾♂️
Apollos have a bit of a "sound" to them, which most interfaces don't. I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing, just that both the A/D and the built in preamps aren't really neutral in character, while most competing products in the given price ranges are. Obviously, a subtle observation in the grand scheme of things.
Thank you for this video
Hello . First time on the channel .
I’m deciding between x16 and symphony mk2 SE 2x6 for CONVERSION ONLY
I have a TB3 windows comp .
I had Apollo twin
Idc about plugins or dsp . Barely use the plugins .
My problem is that Sweetwater sold me the MK2 without telling me it isn’t windows compatible. Smh 🤦♂️ so now I have to figure if I should run Dante with the mk2 or just skip the headache and get the x16 . But I NEED the better conversion so if the headache is justifiable, I’ll do it but if the conversation from the x16 vs mk2 is minimal . I’ll just go to x16
I bought a Apollo Duo X, it’s really good Converters and the features are Great.
I change since couple years to apogee ensemble and now to apogee symphony, in my ears and my taste, are the converters more the sound what I Like. At the end, try to invest the best possible converters for your budget.
Best regards,
Sound of Soul
Germany
I have a StudioLive 32C matched with a SSL UC1, and use StudioOne 5.5. The work flow is amazing. Plus, a StudioLive 32SC is actually less expensive than Apollo. Get a lunch box of preamps and you will get amazing results.
We had a studio live in here for mixing keyboards and drum machines alongside UA Apollo. It sounded terrible compared to the Apollo. Killed the low end and highs sounded crappy. Got rid of it right away
@@steveg219The new 32 series blows away the old 16 series soundwise. The 32 series have motorized faders and the DAW mode makes mixing so much more tactile. I don't use the mixers FX, The SSL plugs on every channel in StudioOne takes care of that. Great results.
because of the national semi conductor shortage most modern converters are made by the same manufacturer
How UAD converters would perform against Dangerous Music Convert 8 ?
Surprised no mention of the Lynx Aurora(n) units. Very customizable, great conversion and usability for home studio or professional studios. Outstanding customer support and longevity. I changed over from UA. I'm dropping Avid and UA completely which is what I've used for 10 years.
Absolutely a great converter, that said it’s not a comparable competitor, as it doesn’t have mic preamps and the other typical interface options, I used to use an Aurora 16 with my PTHD rig and loved it.
@@BarryJohns My Lynx Aurora (n) came with 8 mic pres Mr Johns. In hidnsight I should have gone for the 4 preamp configuration.
@@jimbotski my bad Jim, I didn’t realize that they added the option to add microphone preamps to the unit.
@@BarryJohnsan easy miss. LYNX marketing is awful.
PLEASE HELP! Does anyone know what the best no frills single channel audio interface with the best converters to hook a separate high end mic preamp up to? (to clarify, the audio interface will only be used to hook a external preamp up to computer for studio use only) lets say under $2,000.
will be using with latest imac.
do they make audio interfaces without there own internal preamps, that are just made specifically for an external high end preamp?
@@m76353 there really are no single channel interfaces, especially with bypassable preamp section.
@@BarryJohns Thank you so much for responding!
Any other advice you could offer would be greatly appreciated! Best one with least amount of channels?
Thanks again!!! (btw, love your style of how you do these videos!)
Barry. Your videos are really upbeat. Modern and fresh. Keep up the good work!
I remember buying a second hand TC Electronic impact Twin based on gearslutz review. Costed 90 bucks and sounded better than my Apollo Twin MK2.
Real world user here. When I bought my first silver face Apollo 8, I had a Dangerous D-Box (for DAC) and a Burl 192 (for ADC).
When I upgraded from an Apollo 8 silver face to an Apollo X8, I sold the silver face, the D-Box, and the Burl 192.
I loved the D-Box DAC and the Burl 192 ADC, and there was a difference between them and the Apollo X. But was it a necessary difference?
Not anymore. Not how it was with the silver face Apollo.
The Apollo X was 95% DAC translation that the D-Box was, and while I did love the Burl ADC, we're again talking about something that doesn't make or break a capture.
I agree with others conclusions: if you can't make good music with the Apollo X using its internal ADC/DAC, it's not the Apollo's fault.
Yes, I'd be curious to see what UA will come out with next, and I'm sure it will be an improvement, but where it is now is very, very good.
I'm also a huge fan of the Sphere microphone that UA purchased from Townsend Labs; the L22, DLX, and LX are all incredibly useful tools and have made some wonderful chains significantly more affordable for those who either can't or don't wish to spend 10-20X the price.
Great points, I fell off the UAD band wagon a few years ago. Nothing wrong or against UAD, I think they are still a great brand company. Just prefer other conversion.
Like what and why?
So my question is if I don't need to track with UAD plugins then can I just buy a better converter and use the UAD-2 Accelerator to use UAD plugins?
Correct
@@BarryJohns Awesome! Thanks for the response. I'm going to go with RMEs converters then.
thanks, I know eventually I'll have to get into recording (eventually will outgrow garage band), but my trade was IT and so every few years I'd build a maxxed out PC for video gaming, but based off this video, looks like the same PC would work work. Also the macbooks seem interesting also . . . will check out those vids you have for that.
Definitely looks a lot better with the free L22 with the rackmounts and lower price by not having to get Heritage package
Just subscribed. I'm relatively new to engineering and running a studio. I also have a TH-cam channel just a few months old. Always looking to expand my studio knowledge
can you tell me about clarett+ 4pre please thank you in advance
Does the Quantum has anything to do with Dave Hills Quantum clock design?? did they buy the technology??
Don’t know.
The PreSonus Quantum 26x32 is only $999 and smokes my Apollo X4 that cost twice as much. I bought the X4 for portable use and to use for Live Podcasting.
I'm 40 plus and I can hear over 15k as I recently had a hearing test because I haven't damaged my ears but your overall point is well taken. I have used two different presonus interfaces and they are manure so I'm waiting on my RME to come off of background so I can toss the presonus in the trash. The quantum may be a good piece of gear but personally I'm done with presonus.
@@levondarratt787 You gotta relax 😂. I just turned 30 last month. And by smoking it I mean fuller sounding bass in the sub frequencies, more I/O, bypassable preamps, Zero Latency in general in Studio One (not just with Presonus Plugins) etc... All for more than 50% less than what you get with the X4. In short it smokes it in overall value. I've owned both for 2 years now. Both are great units, but I'd feel like a fool buying an X4 today if I had to only have 1 interface. The $1k+ saved buying a Quantum can go towards more high-end gear.
@@v3zMedia I agree. There is no need to overpay in today's market especially in the used arena. Companies have been charging more but providing less and use effective marketing on why we need it. UAD makes great analog gear but in my humble opinion their interfaces and plugins are way over priced for what your are getting and the dsp nonsense is so 1980s. I considered them as I am revamping my studio but I would need a Mac which is huge investment, interface along with the high priced plugins therefore decided it was not worth it as I could keep my great pc, buy some analog gear, a new rme interface with a few select plugins by fabfilter and brainworx and call it good. Best of luck on the quantum. Oh could you run them both in a Adat setup?
@@PurpleMusicProductions You can run the Apollo on PC. I have a Custom built PC as well as a Gigabyte Aero 15 OLED laptop. It works fine on both. You just have to have the right windows laptop or Thunderbolt PCIE card in your Desktop. However, if you want to use their new Luna DAW you will need a Mac for sure as they haven't made that software compatible with PC yet. And yes I can use these units together through ADAT.
@@v3zMedia Ah ok I see I was wondering how pc users could run UAD because I had heard so many people say they had issues. Thanks for that tip because if I ever decide to go that route then it is possible but with caveats. Thanks for the great dialogue. What kind of music are you doing if you do not mind me asking?
With spark now in play & some of the plug ins being exclusive to UAD is Apollo now a good purchase or should I go with RME
RME is a way better interface.
@@BarryJohns thx for the reply ! I’m going to go a little off track now …& I always watch your videos but I’m definitely confused with all the gear that’s out there so question #1 what plug ins shall I go with plug in alliance or UAD ? Question #2 for my vocals I like going into the interface with hardware so Neve 1073 DPX or is SPX enough or warm audio 73 or 273 ? I greatly appreciate your help with these purchase decisions!
Спасибо большое за видео. Вы подтвердили и мои мысли по этому поводу.
I really enjoy you- Would love to know your thoughts about the desktop Apollo series. I have my first Apollo X4, and I’m not sure that I couldn’t have spent my $2,300.00 better. Please give me your thoughts. My DAW is Logic ProX.- and you got me thinking Universal Audio is dropping prices because of the MacM1, M2, M3 series computers and us consumers not needing DSP processors in the future? Um um um.
Holy smokes I just priced the Apollos. Twin X Duo selling for $1200 now. I paid $900 for mine just over a year ago. Thats insane. Ill probably sell mine for what I paid for it now. lol