the fact joey is standing on the right and yugi on the left subconsciously hints that joey is the hero in the situation. these old shonen animes like to put good guys and right guys in the same position relative to the camera
I legit thought the exact same thing. In every single Yugioh duel in every single series (barring like 5 exceptions), they always put the "hero" on the right and the "antagonist" on the left. Joey on the right means you should be rooting for him, he should have audience support.
Another interesting point is that they always put the guy they want the audiences to side with on the right during duels. The antagonist is always on the left. This is consistent (with like 5 exceptions) across every single duel in every single Yugioh tv series. In Yugi and Joey's duel, Joey is in the right while Yugi is on the left. The audiences is supposed to be rooting for Joey. It's almost like the series is implying that he will win.
i like to think joey won for 2 reasons. 1: even if joey showed he was a true duelist, he has a personal level of pride, and from watching the series i dont think hed take it back as he wanted to earn it back. 2: the last shot was joey dueling the pharaoh, who has luck manipulating powers via the milleneum puzzle. the milleneum puzzle giving the pharaoh cards to help in his current situation based on how pressed he is. with the stakes of the duel only being red eyes, you could argue that the pharaoh never felt too pressed due to the low stakes, thus not getting help from his magic. so this wouldve been a true equal terms duel, that i think joey wouldve won. joey almost beat yugi before with his magic, but the stakes was the souls of yugis grandpa and the kaiba brothers, so the stakes were higher giving the pharoah the magic luck boost as hed have felt pressed by the situation. almost beating him with magic, then getting better, id say joey would have the advantage in a truly equal terms duel
Man, where does the idea the millenium Puzzle gives the pharaoh luck powers even come from? It honestly baffles me to even think about, because that goes against the whole point of the entire franchise. In Takahashi's own words as his parting note in the last tome of the Manga, duels are a clash of ideals as a metaphor for nothing short of... Life itself. Meeting people, confronting your vision of living with theirs, forging bonds, and making them a part of your own life, Takahashi describes rivals as a mirror for your own soul. In his own words, "games mean conflict, a combat between two enemies, it's the same for all of them. Cards... Chess... The blood-soaked wars of the human race... All these are different kinds of games. Do you know what god gave to people so they could play in in this world? A single chip... Called life". Intertwined with that is the overarching theme of fate, an element as important and often brought to the yugioh universe than to the jojo franchise, yet one of these tends to be praised for its genius while the other is constantly ignored for the sake of calling it cheating. Now, I'm asking you. Does Judai who could, in the GX manga, call the name of the seven first cards of his deck right with his eyes closed, possess a millenium item? Does Yusei, who could draw monsters with a specific amount of attack points to his will, have a millenium item? No, they don't. Yet they manipulate fate just as well as yugi does: because that's the proper of duels in the yugioh world. Heck, Atem top decking the exact monsters he called out during his duel against Yugi was done *when he didn't even have the millenium Puzzle around his neck! * . It's not just a game of luck, but a clash of ideals, trust, and skill. Heck, "practicing your drawing skills" is considered a thing people regularly do in both Zexal and GX!
I dont really know about the Luck manipulating powers. It is more like the power of your trust and pride in your cards and skills as a True Duelist. But the Duel probably was a really good one anyway!
@@bigfish5544the pharaoh skill is confirmed that atem has that power normally he just cant use it unless it's a difficult situation or he has his friends on his side due to his amnesia holding it back. Also this skill also applies to ANY duel that atem is even around as in early yugioh we see the camera focus to atem before joey draws and it does the sound effect like it would when atem is getting the exact card he needs
Atem turned a no stakes duel against rapheal into a shadow game because his pride got in the way I don't belive for a second that he didn't use the puzzels power againsst joey. also even if you say "waking the dragons isn't cannon!" do you really think thepharoh would go easy on joey? because yes not using his powers would be going easy on joey.
i wasnt saying he was holding back, just that he wasnt in dire straights until it was too late, like a swing big kinda turn to come from behind@@KINGD353
Hmm I haven't seen any Red eyes deck stronger than blue eyes, they have more support, so I'm inclined to disagree there. But your welcome to value Red eyes take pride in your favorite.
Well is not even a fair comparison between those decks, i love red eyes but it has been forgoten for to many years, Dark Magician and blue eyes receive all The support and looks like will be like that for the next years…
He did beat marik fair and square. He was going to say attack and win But yeah, marik's shadow magic knocked him out. I hate that they didn't acknowledge that in the show afterwards.
The point was that Marik underestimated him, but he still won in the established rules of this shadow game. From the very beginning, Marik wasn't trying to win but to torture Jonouchi both physically and mentally, as he himself admitted he was holding back due to not considering Jonouchi worthy. Had it not been a shadow game and had Marik actually tried to win, he would have summoned another monster from the graveyard than Ra with monster reborn, like Lava Golem. In truth, Marik is an extremely fierce opponent Kaiba though even he didn't have more than 15% chance to defeat in a duel, and even Atem would have lost against him had he not possessed Kaiba's devil's sanctuary, obelisk and had Marik not surrendered. The duel against Jonouchi wasn't a show of skills, but of worthiness and might
Ra has plot powers (it electrocuted Odion so Joey got lucky getting up first, let alone sphere mode magic text with Mai stealing it and Marik gets it back) let alone no excuse why Joey took the legendary fisherman over torrential tribute that Mako had, which doesnt require Umi (same with weevil insect queen bs for insects, though I don't think he had anything to help non-insect decks). Easy to say Yugi gave this to Joey for dueling and losing to Kaiba in a well played duel for 3rd place. Scripted duel with jinzo countering crush card was nice, but Joey lost that too. Probably lost to Ishizu as well.
As much as I'd like go think Joey defeated Yugi and won his Red Eyes in a duel. I don't think it happened, mainly because they both used Kaiba Co Duel Disk, and that duel wouldve been recorded and documented. And had Kaiba seen Yugi lose to Joey on his records he wouldve lost it and never let it go. Kind of how he lost it when he found out Yugi lost to Rafael.
But during that story arc kaiba's company was bought out by darts so how would he have the Intel that Yugi lost the dual Raphael when it was disclosed by Joey that he lost during that teleconference phone call
@@midniteguardian9803 probably but if it's never mentioned in the show that Joey beat Yugi then it's safe to say that Yugi gave Joey his red eyes black dragon card regardless of the outcome of the duel maybe Joey gave Yugi his run for his money but didn't win in the long run
While I do think that Joey is a great duelist and he earned his Red Eyes Black Dragon back from Yugi, I honestly don't think he defeated Yami Yugi, especially with how Yugi had to be the one who defeat Atem to prove that he's the true king of games later on in the story.
Well. That Final Duel wasn't about the strongest Duelist fighting Atem. Atem and Yugi felt that it was Yugis duty to defeat him. The closest Person to each other. It had to be a challenge for both. And Yugi was dedicated to give it his best, while Joey was already thinking of stopping this duel the night before on the boat.
Agreed, I honestly don’t see how Joey could have beaten Atem, he may be honourable but he isn’t subtle or quiet. There is no way he wouldn’t tell people, especially Kaiba that he defeated Yugi. They either came to a draw or he provided Atem with an honourable challenge.
@@jameskingman1227 joey would have no reason to go around saying he beat yugi/atem??? The duel was between them and joey wanting to prove his worth to himself by beating yugi so why would he just back track on that
@@RedTheWeeb Joey has a heart of gold and an honourable guy but I don’t think this was a secret duel and why would Joey keep quiet about it? Or Yugi for that matter. It seems like it would be a huge thing for them both if Joey won. I don’t really consider that backtracking.
@@jameskingman1227 I think a really good answer to this was just give red eyes burn to joey in that duel and he somehow gains control maybe like using grave robber to grab it or a monster reborn to grab it then it battles dark magician and the both take 2400 damage and the match draws. Perfect to keep yugis win loss ratio and also have them have a nice duel where joey amd yugi both feel he earned it back
I hope so. He’s always been my favorite character. Always love a good underdog story. He has the most character development in the series. I thought he was the coolest character ever when I was a kid. Joey is the MVP of the whole show. He doesn’t have money to buy any card he wants like kaiba or an ancient Egyptian spirit that never loses. Joey did it all himself. He made amazing growth so fast. Progressively beating greater and greater opponents. He also had the coolest cards, like jinzo, time wizard, thousand dragon, gilford, and he even used black skull dragon multiple times. One of the coolest monsters in the game. I always felt like his starter deck was very easy to use, like Pegasus’s starter deck. (I didn’t win with yugi’s or Kaiba’s nearly as much as joey’s or Pegasus’s.) I think the way they make fun of Joey in YGOTAS is really funny but like most characters in abridged series it’s just an exaggeration of his character. Joey made dumb mistakes early on in the show but he became one of the best duelists in the series and a very real and likable character.
Man's deck building was shit I don't care if he couldn't have bought any card he wanted dude could've at least bought a couple more boosters or traded Insect Queen and Legendary fisherman for, oh, I dunno, kuriboh? More useful in his deck than those two cards are
I found very interesting the way the mangaka and then the anime did not show to us the final duel between Yugi and Jonouchi. Because of this smart decision we are still here to ask to our-self what happened in that duel after a lot of years, that is insane (in positive way for me). I think their duel ended in a draw but you give us a good point. P.S. Sorry for my possible mistakes, English is not my mother language.
I personally think Joey did win. I always imagined that Joey is the kind of guy who pulls through against odds he normally has no business being in. Like in his fight with Marik and Rex. Joey is a duelist with a low standard IQ but a decently high battle IQ and an incredible gift for adapting during a duel. I think when it came down to it he beat Yugi because of the Red Eyes being at stake.
if we are talking about the anime then it coul be implied that joey beats yugi since in season 4 joey is the only one of the main cast that beats a doma knight in his 1st duel with yami yugi losing to a true duelist without cheating for the 1st time rafael and kaiba draws with joey winning impling that joey was the truerer duelist at that time
I'd add a third alternative besides winning or losing. They drew. It makes a lot of sense seeing how Yugi already saw Joey as a worthy opponent at that point. It is hard to believe that Joey could beat Yugi right after Battle City. Especially because Yugi had the three Egyption God cards by then. Even if Yugi didn't use them, his level of skill was still above Joey's. I see them drawing if Yugi doesn't use his god cards in a friendly match. He'd still be impressed by Joey's progress and determination. As a result, he'd give him his Red Eyes back.
Personally, I think Joey lost. I find it hard to believe that anyone other then end of series Yugi could defeat the pharaoh with the 3 god cards in his possession. Joey himself lost to Kaiba ( who had non of the god cards) and Kaiba himself only beat the pharaoh once due to Yugi’s interference after Kaiba threatened to commit suicide when he was at the verge of being defeated once again by the pharaoh.
Yugi wasn’t going to lose to Marik. He still had 2 high level monsters on the field after Ragnarok. Marik had no monsters and 1lp. Him surrendering was just a narrative moment. He absolutely won, if he didn’t I think Kaiba would never let that go.
I feel the need to specify Yugi wasn't gonna lose to Malik at the end of their duel. He played Ragnarok during Malik's battle phase and removed Ra from the field and Malik was left with 1 life point, no hand and nothing on the field up against the Dark Magicians. Yugi was trying to both destroy Ra and eliminate the evil Malik but he could have won either way.
Him using it in Millenium World does not mean he had it back. Since your deck in that is what your mind thinks your ideal deck is. In short, it was not real.
@@MiruyaYT yep, and cause of atem bullshit i could see him being set and rdy for multiple strats with traps but not as much for quick play and joey just needs to summon it in a way atem dont expect and take him out on that turn before he can pull some bullshit, aka similar to how little yugi beat him and honestly if they were to call back to that in the last episode when yugi and atem were dueling then it would of made it that much better and give more of a reason in GX where Pegasus says joey is one of the top 5 duelists
All he needed to do was summon DM and summon skull and Atem had numerous special summoning strategies that use spells also Joey isn't know for having good spells and traps
I'm in the camp of joey defeated yugi however I will add the caviat that I don't think he defeated the egyptian gods like young yugi and possibly jaden did. it be because yami didn't put them in his deck or that joey circumvented their summoning I know he beat the pharoh without beating his gods because the pharoh was shocked when young yugi beat the gods. that shock wouldn't exis
I don't think it's possible for anyone to defeat atem because whenever he's in trouble he has his hacks to bail him out and they only become more powerful when he's up against the wall and the most desperate
3:25 It was confirmed at 3:06 (Miyura repeated the dialogue from the manga) how Jonouchi would get Red-Eyes back, which is becoming a true duelist in Battle City. Once he became a true duelist, he would also be able to fight Yami Yugi. Two separate situations with 1 requirement (Jonouchi has to become a true duelist). That is how we know Jonouchi got Red-Eyes back because they don't duel unless he becomes a true duelist and he gets Red-Eyes back before the duel. Also, Jonouchi summoned Red-Eyes from his deck in the final arc vs Zorc. That was confirmation. The Dark Side of Dimensions doesn't confirm anything new aside from related to Shadi and where the Gods were. And as always, I'm talking about the source material manga. 6:15 It's not discrediting when its a fact that Jonouchi wasn't beating Yami Malik skill-wise and story-wise. The manga showed the duel in detail. Yami Malik was in control throughout. Even after Jonouchi got a chance with Jinzo, Yami Malik countered immediately. After Gilford attacks, Yami Malik counters with a trap. Jonouchi's hand was dead due to Hellpoemer. He had 1 high level monster in hand before he drew Gearfried. Yami Malik had 2 choices: 1. Finish off Jonouchi in 1 turn with Ra. 2. Finish him off in multiple turns by reviving Lava Golem. Jonouchi was always going to lose so Takahashi chose the dramatic storytelling finish. It doesn't make any sense for Rishido to own and beat Jonouchi then for Jonouchi to beat Yami Malik. There's levels to this. 6:44 Credited? Funny how people saw Rishido own Jonouchi (the anime made Jonouchi look better than he is in the manga) proving he hadn't grown enough to beat a Ghoul level opponent and never give Rishido his credit, but because people have bias towards Jonouchi they want to credit him with beating Yami Malik. 9:37 Well, you're wrong. 9:44 The whole build up? You mean beating "normal" duelists then getting beat by Rishido, the right hand man of the leader of the Ghouls (Yami Yugi has to defeat) proving he still wasn't good enough. Let's not forget the Pier duel when he was controlled by Malik vs normal Yugi. Malik had only put a few burn cards in Jonouchi's deck. It was 99% Jonouchi's deck. Yugi countered every move he made and beat him, but because he has to save Jonouchi, he chose to suicide in order for Jonouchi's box to open. If you can't beat Yugi, you are not beating Yami Yugi, who is Yuugi Ou (Game King). 10:01 That is not what happened in the manga. Black Magician and Black Magician Girl were on the field after Yami Yugi beat Ra with Dimension Magic. Yami Yugi had all the cards to win like 2 turns prior to that turn. 10:06 - 10:20 Funny how you skipped Jonouchi losing to Rishido to push this narrative. And I corrected you in that video to which you showed you did not care and still pushed your narrative. 11:26 You also forgot to mention that in that chapter, Yami Yugi said Jonouchi won Duelist Kingdom when he actually didn't. But you want to ignore that Yami Yugi beats Jonouchi and still gives Red-Eyes back to him. 11:31 What were the requirements for Atem to go the afterlife? A King can only travel by dropping his sword. That meant he had to experience defeat. There's no point in Yugi dueling him if Jonouchi had already beat him. Heck, if Jonouchi did beat Yami Yugi, he would have bragged about it since he had lost 187 times to Yugi/Yami Yugi preparing for Duelist Kingdom. The whole manga showed Jonouchi wasn't on Yami Yugi and even Yugi's level and that Jonouchi's skill level is above a normal duelist, but not on the level of Yami Yugi (or even Yugi) who can defeat Ghouls while Jonouchi loses to them. There are levels to this. It is Yami Yugi (Game King) > Yami Malik = Kaiba = Rishido = Yugi = Yami Bakura (I'll even throw in Yami Bakura for fun because he beats Jonouchi in the Final arc while Yugi beats him) = Exodia Ghoul >>>>>>>> Jonouchi > normal duelists.
You compare they decks they had back then there is no way Joey could beat Yugi's deck so I'm leaning on he did something to earn the respect of a true duelist or Yugi deliberately threw the duel. Give this is the anime so shenanigan are bound to happen. But by simply evaluating their decks, Joey at the time didn't have a consistent and cohesive deck. I just can't see him beating Yugi deck and winning.
@@leosnyder5264 Thaa not what I meant. The unseen match between yugi vs joey after kaibas tournament. Joey won. And yugi never using egytian god card against Joey.
We never see Joey duel again after Battle City in the manga. The only duels in the last arc are Kaiba vs Bakura, Yugi vs Bakura, and Yugi vs Atem. And we don't see Joey with Red-Eyes in Dark Side of Dimension. So we will never have concrete canonical answer to this but it's safe to assume Joey never won his Red-Eyes back.
1. Kaiba vs Bakura was not part of the Manga 2. We literally saw Joey holding his Red-Eyes in front of Aigami/Diva in DSOD. That clip played multiple times in the video. 3. We see Joey possessing the Red-Eyes Black Dragon Card in the Millennium World Arc when he played it against Zorc. I also explained and showed it in the video.
Ummm joey said in dsod that he is running a red eyes centered deck at that point so yeah he def has his red eyes and it's safe to say he had a bunch of cards to power it and his warriors with minimal if any luck cards. By that point joey would've won and obtained a bunch of rare cards. Lol did you watch the movie?
Yeah, no. If joey won, he would've brought it up, especially with kaiba. Hed brag about it, joey is a very egotistical character, and theres no way he'd be quiet about beating the king of games. Definitely when kaiba talks down to him, hed have brought it up, but he doesn't. And kaiba would be fuming that yugi would lose to someone like joey, someone kaiba not only lacks respect for, but actively contrmpts. And hed know about it, kauba has access to every duel fought on a duel disc, abd is obsessed with beating yugi. No way hes not reviewing yugis duels. Hed know if yugi lost. Joey winning makes absolutely no sense with the characters, either their actions, or their skill levels.
Yugi actually wasn't going to lose to marik, marik had no cards to play after Ra was destroyed and it was going to be yugi's turn since ragnorak was activated during marik's turn.
It is a bit different in the Manga. Yugi didn't use a card like Ragnarok in the Manga and loses the Black Magician and the Black Magician Girl at the end of Mariks turn. So it is pretty open what would have happened. I'm just going by Yami Marik being sure that Marik can still defeat Yugi.
As one of the people who says Marik was just toying with Joey" I ALSO say that Joey still beat Marik outright. In fact, the reason I bring up the "Marik was toying with him" is more in relation to Marik's previous duels: "Oh, if Mai had just attacked with Harpie Lady, she would have won!" "Yes, and if Marik had attacked Joey earlier, HE would have won, but we all agree Joey deserved HIS win, yes?" Now yes, Marik WAS toying with Joey and we see just how frighteningly competent he can be against someone he takes seriously when he duels both Bakura and Atem and completely duels circles around them. But this shouldn't take away from Joey's accomplishment. Instead, it shows just how far above where everyone THOUGHT he was that Joey actually was.
A thing that also comes to play is the whole „True Duelist“ Theme. Everybody who could have won, but didn’t because they didn’t want to wouldn’t be considered a True Duelist in my opinion. And Joey vs Marik showed this completely. Joey on his road of succeeding to become a True Duelist was about to win against someone who wasnt a True Duelist at all. I think that was greatly represented. And Marik would obviously not be a True Duelist since he doesn’t care about that kind of stuff. Otherwise he would have been so much stronger probably haha
@@MiruyaYT What I really like, is that Joey's journey to EARN his Red-Eyes is a fantastic mirror of the conflict between Yugi and other Millenium Item users. Pegasus, Ishizu and the less crazy Marik used their items as a crutch. They relied SO MUCH on the powers that when forced to duel without them, they were helpless. Essentially hiding behind them. Pegasus and Ishizu became so reliant on their items powers that they were helpless without them. "You've lost the instincts of a duelist." Marik hid behind the puppets he made from his Rods to never have to face the shame of losing. All of them lost their items because they were not worthy. Meanwhile,Yugi, the little Yugi, despite what the memes say, grew STRONGER with the puzzle. Every time he had to duel without Atem, or when he spoke up to help Atem, you saw him becoming more skilled, more competent. It's the exact same theme as with Joey and his Red Eyes. This is why people who talk about Atem "cheating" don't really understand the theme of the series. In Yu-Gi-Oh!, honour is not the "Paladin" style honour of being always upfront, honest and never using underhanded tactics. Lies, deceit and trickery are not only accepted, but ENCOURAGED. What the series DOES condemn however, what it sees as dishonourable, is cowardice. In particular, cowardice in the face of what they fear. Weevil was praised for luring Yugi into an area where he benefitted from the field spell, since it showed forward thinking and strategy. But he was condemned for trying to destroy Exodia because it showed he was a coward, unwilling to face his fear of Exodia. Atem is heavily punished for using the Seal of Orichalchos, not because it "turned him evil" (it didn't), but because he showed in that moment, that he would rather risk his soul than admit an honourable defeat. His pride (a recurring character flaw), unwilling to even CONSIDER the posibility of losing, he was too much of a coward to face that reality. Then we come to the items, and AGAIN that theme is present. If you show yourself worthy of the items, if you grow alongside them, you have the RIGHT to make use of them just as you would a God card. But should they become a crutch for you... Side Note: This is more trivia, but Marik's shadow games technically AREN'T cheating, since he was under the exact same penalty Joey was (He felt the pain HIS monsters felt too, he's just a sadomasochist who likes feeling pain) If you're both playing a game where BOTH players get to whack their opponent with a hammer when they win... Well, it would be an absolutely brutal, violent and sadistic game that should be 100% illegalised by the judge. But it wouldn't be cheating.
Joey didn't win. Cause just like the motive was to win to get the card back Yugi would have lost his title as The King Of Games which wasn't the case. Joey played a tough ass Duel and in the end Yugi got the best out of him but still gave him back the card.
@@MiruyaYT you can't say that. Because if that was the case Kaiba wouldn't had been pissed that Yugi lost his King Of Games title to Raphael. They weren't in a tournament situation when it happened. It was never a time that Yugi lost clean other than that one time but it was no other time they referenced he could only lose that title via a Tournament. In that first movie it was kids who wanted to challenge Yugi and one of em said by winning they'll become King Of Games.
@@Mr60ina30 First of all: All of that is not canon to the Manga (And this video was about the Manga Storyline). The second thing is that we are talking about Kaiba here. Thats just a serious topic to Kaiba in the Anime there and I am pretty sure that he would be the only one seeing it as "giving the Duel King Title away". And in the japanese version of the movie was never said that they wanted to become king of games by beating Yugi. It was a "I wanna beat Yugi to get ahold of the 3 Gods" instead
![Zane Truesdale - The Road of the Kaiser in Yugioh! [Yu-Gi-Oh! Explained]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/F8KNrVV0qVM/mqdefault.jpg)
![The True Names of Yubel you didn't know about! [Yu-Gi-Oh! GX Explained]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QKRPG0JmFew/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks for letting me be in your video!
I have to thank you for your effort haha
I have nothing but respect for Joey. He is a beast!
Joey deserves all that respect. Literally started from the bottom to reach the top through any obstacle!
Man tanked worth of the gods 4 times and only blacked out
Same here joey is a awesome duelist
I have fear. He tanked a fire from god. I'm scared.
In all fairness Joey lost that duel, it's even mentioned in the anime
the fact joey is standing on the right and yugi on the left subconsciously hints that joey is the hero in the situation. these old shonen animes like to put good guys and right guys in the same position relative to the camera
I legit thought the exact same thing. In every single Yugioh duel in every single series (barring like 5 exceptions), they always put the "hero" on the right and the "antagonist" on the left. Joey on the right means you should be rooting for him, he should have audience support.
Another interesting point is that they always put the guy they want the audiences to side with on the right during duels. The antagonist is always on the left. This is consistent (with like 5 exceptions) across every single duel in every single Yugioh tv series.
In Yugi and Joey's duel, Joey is in the right while Yugi is on the left. The audiences is supposed to be rooting for Joey. It's almost like the series is implying that he will win.
Takahashi himself actually considered Joey the strongest.
i like to think joey won for 2 reasons.
1: even if joey showed he was a true duelist, he has a personal level of pride, and from watching the series i dont think hed take it back as he wanted to earn it back.
2: the last shot was joey dueling the pharaoh, who has luck manipulating powers via the milleneum puzzle. the milleneum puzzle giving the pharaoh cards to help in his current situation based on how pressed he is. with the stakes of the duel only being red eyes, you could argue that the pharaoh never felt too pressed due to the low stakes, thus not getting help from his magic. so this wouldve been a true equal terms duel, that i think joey wouldve won. joey almost beat yugi before with his magic, but the stakes was the souls of yugis grandpa and the kaiba brothers, so the stakes were higher giving the pharoah the magic luck boost as hed have felt pressed by the situation. almost beating him with magic, then getting better, id say joey would have the advantage in a truly equal terms duel
Man, where does the idea the millenium Puzzle gives the pharaoh luck powers even come from? It honestly baffles me to even think about, because that goes against the whole point of the entire franchise. In Takahashi's own words as his parting note in the last tome of the Manga, duels are a clash of ideals as a metaphor for nothing short of... Life itself. Meeting people, confronting your vision of living with theirs, forging bonds, and making them a part of your own life, Takahashi describes rivals as a mirror for your own soul. In his own words, "games mean conflict, a combat between two enemies, it's the same for all of them. Cards... Chess... The blood-soaked wars of the human race... All these are different kinds of games. Do you know what god gave to people so they could play in in this world? A single chip... Called life". Intertwined with that is the overarching theme of fate, an element as important and often brought to the yugioh universe than to the jojo franchise, yet one of these tends to be praised for its genius while the other is constantly ignored for the sake of calling it cheating.
Now, I'm asking you. Does Judai who could, in the GX manga, call the name of the seven first cards of his deck right with his eyes closed, possess a millenium item? Does Yusei, who could draw monsters with a specific amount of attack points to his will, have a millenium item? No, they don't. Yet they manipulate fate just as well as yugi does: because that's the proper of duels in the yugioh world. Heck, Atem top decking the exact monsters he called out during his duel against Yugi was done *when he didn't even have the millenium Puzzle around his neck! * . It's not just a game of luck, but a clash of ideals, trust, and skill. Heck, "practicing your drawing skills" is considered a thing people regularly do in both Zexal and GX!
I dont really know about the Luck manipulating powers. It is more like the power of your trust and pride in your cards and skills as a True Duelist.
But the Duel probably was a really good one anyway!
@@bigfish5544the pharaoh skill is confirmed that atem has that power normally he just cant use it unless it's a difficult situation or he has his friends on his side due to his amnesia holding it back. Also this skill also applies to ANY duel that atem is even around as in early yugioh we see the camera focus to atem before joey draws and it does the sound effect like it would when atem is getting the exact card he needs
Atem turned a no stakes duel against rapheal into a shadow game because his pride got in the way I don't belive for a second that he didn't use the puzzels power againsst joey. also even if you say "waking the dragons isn't cannon!" do you really think thepharoh would go easy on joey? because yes not using his powers would be going easy on joey.
i wasnt saying he was holding back, just that he wasnt in dire straights until it was too late, like a swing big kinda turn to come from behind@@KINGD353
Red Eyes > Blue Eyes
Just wanted to make that clear. Nice editing btw!
I'm more of a Blue-Eyes Guy tbh. Especially because of Kisara. But I can comletely see why you would love the Red-Eyes more haha
And thank you!
Hmm I haven't seen any Red eyes deck stronger than blue eyes, they have more support, so I'm inclined to disagree there. But your welcome to value Red eyes take pride in your favorite.
Well is not even a fair comparison between those decks, i love red eyes but it has been forgoten for to many years, Dark Magician and blue eyes receive all The support and looks like will be like that for the next years…
It could have ended in a draw, that would be a good enough result, for things to resolve
It is totally a possibility!
He did beat marik fair and square. He was going to say attack and win
But yeah, marik's shadow magic knocked him out.
I hate that they didn't acknowledge that in the show afterwards.
Well. Kaiba did acknowledge Joey after that duel. And to be honest. Is there a higher praise you could have gotten? haha
The point was that Marik underestimated him, but he still won in the established rules of this shadow game. From the very beginning, Marik wasn't trying to win but to torture Jonouchi both physically and mentally, as he himself admitted he was holding back due to not considering Jonouchi worthy. Had it not been a shadow game and had Marik actually tried to win, he would have summoned another monster from the graveyard than Ra with monster reborn, like Lava Golem. In truth, Marik is an extremely fierce opponent Kaiba though even he didn't have more than 15% chance to defeat in a duel, and even Atem would have lost against him had he not possessed Kaiba's devil's sanctuary, obelisk and had Marik not surrendered. The duel against Jonouchi wasn't a show of skills, but of worthiness and might
@@MiruyaYT I'm still annoyed with the dub for downplaying and then scrapping that part
Ra has plot powers (it electrocuted Odion so Joey got lucky getting up first, let alone sphere mode magic text with Mai stealing it and Marik gets it back) let alone no excuse why Joey took the legendary fisherman over torrential tribute that Mako had, which doesnt require Umi (same with weevil insect queen bs for insects, though I don't think he had anything to help non-insect decks). Easy to say Yugi gave this to Joey for dueling and losing to Kaiba in a well played duel for 3rd place. Scripted duel with jinzo countering crush card was nice, but Joey lost that too. Probably lost to Ishizu as well.
As much as I'd like go think Joey defeated Yugi and won his Red Eyes in a duel. I don't think it happened, mainly because they both used Kaiba Co Duel Disk, and that duel wouldve been recorded and documented. And had Kaiba seen Yugi lose to Joey on his records he wouldve lost it and never let it go. Kind of how he lost it when he found out Yugi lost to Rafael.
But during that story arc kaiba's company was bought out by darts so how would he have the Intel that Yugi lost the dual Raphael when it was disclosed by Joey that he lost during that teleconference phone call
@@enhancedutility266 oh yeah you're right, I had forgotten about that haha. But he would've still had records of the duel during battle city right?
@@midniteguardian9803 probably but if it's never mentioned in the show that Joey beat Yugi then it's safe to say that Yugi gave Joey his red eyes black dragon card regardless of the outcome of the duel maybe Joey gave Yugi his run for his money but didn't win in the long run
While I do think that Joey is a great duelist and he earned his Red Eyes Black Dragon back from Yugi, I honestly don't think he defeated Yami Yugi, especially with how Yugi had to be the one who defeat Atem to prove that he's the true king of games later on in the story.
Well. That Final Duel wasn't about the strongest Duelist fighting Atem. Atem and Yugi felt that it was Yugis duty to defeat him. The closest Person to each other. It had to be a challenge for both. And Yugi was dedicated to give it his best, while Joey was already thinking of stopping this duel the night before on the boat.
Agreed, I honestly don’t see how Joey could have beaten Atem, he may be honourable but he isn’t subtle or quiet. There is no way he wouldn’t tell people, especially Kaiba that he defeated Yugi. They either came to a draw or he provided Atem with an honourable challenge.
@@jameskingman1227 joey would have no reason to go around saying he beat yugi/atem??? The duel was between them and joey wanting to prove his worth to himself by beating yugi so why would he just back track on that
@@RedTheWeeb Joey has a heart of gold and an honourable guy but I don’t think this was a secret duel and why would Joey keep quiet about it? Or Yugi for that matter. It seems like it would be a huge thing for them both if Joey won. I don’t really consider that backtracking.
@@jameskingman1227 I think a really good answer to this was just give red eyes burn to joey in that duel and he somehow gains control maybe like using grave robber to grab it or a monster reborn to grab it then it battles dark magician and the both take 2400 damage and the match draws. Perfect to keep yugis win loss ratio and also have them have a nice duel where joey amd yugi both feel he earned it back
I still want an OVA on Yugi vs Joey, I just would love to have seen that, man....... I also want Joey to play Kaiba to and win.
Yugi vs Joey and Kaiba vs Atem would have been the most epic Duels to see in my opinion!
I hope so. He’s always been my favorite character. Always love a good underdog story. He has the most character development in the series. I thought he was the coolest character ever when I was a kid. Joey is the MVP of the whole show. He doesn’t have money to buy any card he wants like kaiba or an ancient Egyptian spirit that never loses. Joey did it all himself. He made amazing growth so fast. Progressively beating greater and greater opponents. He also had the coolest cards, like jinzo, time wizard, thousand dragon, gilford, and he even used black skull dragon multiple times. One of the coolest monsters in the game. I always felt like his starter deck was very easy to use, like Pegasus’s starter deck. (I didn’t win with yugi’s or Kaiba’s nearly as much as joey’s or Pegasus’s.) I think the way they make fun of Joey in YGOTAS is really funny but like most characters in abridged series it’s just an exaggeration of his character. Joey made dumb mistakes early on in the show but he became one of the best duelists in the series and a very real and likable character.
It's already confirmed that Joey lost
Man's deck building was shit I don't care if he couldn't have bought any card he wanted dude could've at least bought a couple more boosters or traded Insect Queen and Legendary fisherman for, oh, I dunno, kuriboh? More useful in his deck than those two cards are
I found very interesting the way the mangaka and then the anime did not show to us the final duel between Yugi and Jonouchi. Because of this smart decision we are still here to ask to our-self what happened in that duel after a lot of years, that is insane (in positive way for me). I think their duel ended in a draw but you give us a good point.
P.S. Sorry for my possible mistakes, English is not my mother language.
Don't worry. You did well! haha
And I do agree. That just shows that it can often be a good choice to let the peoples interpretation play a role!
I'm glad someone is addressing this topic.
I personally think Joey did win. I always imagined that Joey is the kind of guy who pulls through against odds he normally has no business being in. Like in his fight with Marik and Rex. Joey is a duelist with a low standard IQ but a decently high battle IQ and an incredible gift for adapting during a duel. I think when it came down to it he beat Yugi because of the Red Eyes being at stake.
As far as canon goes, Joey lost, it's even pointed in the anime before the final duel
if we are talking about the anime then it coul be implied that joey beats yugi since in season 4 joey is the only one of the main cast that beats a doma knight in his 1st duel with yami yugi losing to a true duelist without cheating for the 1st time rafael and kaiba draws with joey winning impling that joey was the truerer duelist at that time
Wow I love your thumbnails and video graphics. Great job!! Definitely subscribing!!
Appreciating your words! Thank you so much haha
I did not realize the importance of joey taking red eyes in the moment in the dub when i watched it as a kid
Joey would’ve beat Marik easily had he not passed out from Ras attack
I'd add a third alternative besides winning or losing. They drew. It makes a lot of sense seeing how Yugi already saw Joey as a worthy opponent at that point.
It is hard to believe that Joey could beat Yugi right after Battle City. Especially because Yugi had the three Egyption God cards by then.
Even if Yugi didn't use them, his level of skill was still above Joey's.
I see them drawing if Yugi doesn't use his god cards in a friendly match.
He'd still be impressed by Joey's progress and determination. As a result, he'd give him his Red Eyes back.
Personally, I think Joey lost.
I find it hard to believe that anyone other then end of series Yugi could defeat the pharaoh with the 3 god cards in his possession. Joey himself lost to Kaiba ( who had non of the god cards) and Kaiba himself only beat the pharaoh once due to Yugi’s interference after Kaiba threatened to commit suicide when he was at the verge of being defeated once again by the pharaoh.
Joey lost to Kaiba mainly because of Crush Card Virus, but Yugi doesn't have that card
Yugi wasn’t going to lose to Marik. He still had 2 high level monsters on the field after Ragnarok. Marik had no monsters and 1lp. Him surrendering was just a narrative moment. He absolutely won, if he didn’t I think Kaiba would never let that go.
Joey did beat Yugi.
With Swordsman of Landstar.
nice video as always :))
I feel the need to specify Yugi wasn't gonna lose to Malik at the end of their duel. He played Ragnarok during Malik's battle phase and removed Ra from the field and Malik was left with 1 life point, no hand and nothing on the field up against the Dark Magicians. Yugi was trying to both destroy Ra and eliminate the evil Malik but he could have won either way.
Him using it in Millenium World does not mean he had it back. Since your deck in that is what your mind thinks your ideal deck is. In short, it was not real.
The most logical outcome is a draw honestly.
i could see joey winning just cause jinzo is op AF
Jinzo really is pretty strong! It could stop Mirror Force, Magical Cylinder and co all by himself!
@@MiruyaYT yep, and cause of atem bullshit i could see him being set and rdy for multiple strats with traps but not as much for quick play and joey just needs to summon it in a way atem dont expect and take him out on that turn before he can pull some bullshit, aka similar to how little yugi beat him and honestly if they were to call back to that in the last episode when yugi and atem were dueling then it would of made it that much better and give more of a reason in GX where Pegasus says joey is one of the top 5 duelists
All he needed to do was summon DM and summon skull and Atem had numerous special summoning strategies that use spells also Joey isn't know for having good spells and traps
I'm in the camp of joey defeated yugi however I will add the caviat that I don't think he defeated the egyptian gods like young yugi and possibly jaden did. it be because yami didn't put them in his deck or that joey circumvented their summoning I know he beat the pharoh without beating his gods because the pharoh was shocked when young yugi beat the gods. that shock wouldn't exis
Someone Is going to have to explain to me how Joey beat yugi with the God cards in his deck
because yugis deck was god awful and completely incoherent. chances are yugi just dead draw 20 times in a row
Hope you're having a good day
Thank you! Same goes for you!
I think Joey lost cause we know kaiba would be hella pissed if a 3rd rate duelist beat the current champ
Well. Don't forget that Joey got Kaibas respect as a duelist after that Marik duel! haha
@@MiruyaYT. I don't think he respects him that much .Joey wasn't worthy enough Kaiba new duel disk in movie.
He won against yugioh after battle city.
We do not know it for a fact. But I do think so too!
@@MiruyaYT yugi vs Rafael makes no sense then. Him risking his soul because he doenst want to lose a dule makes no sense if he already lost
Yugi won
Yugi was about to beat Marik it did not matter if Good Marik forfited
Pretty sure Yugi just gave it back and refused Joey saying no
Of course he beat Yugi, anyone who thinks otherwise is just in denial
Well. I wouldn't state it as a fact since it isn't one.
@@MiruyaYT He would have never accepted his Red-Eyes back unless he won
@@PapaPodowrong
@@leosnyder5264 if you believe that, then you don't understand the way the characters think
In the anime they said that Yugi won
I don't think it's possible for anyone to defeat atem because whenever he's in trouble he has his hacks to bail him out and they only become more powerful when he's up against the wall and the most desperate
They state that Yugi is the only one who can beat Atem. If Joey could have, they would've had him duel instead.
3:25 It was confirmed at 3:06 (Miyura repeated the dialogue from the manga) how Jonouchi would get Red-Eyes back, which is becoming a true duelist in Battle City. Once he became a true duelist, he would also be able to fight Yami Yugi. Two separate situations with 1 requirement (Jonouchi has to become a true duelist). That is how we know Jonouchi got Red-Eyes back because they don't duel unless he becomes a true duelist and he gets Red-Eyes back before the duel. Also, Jonouchi summoned Red-Eyes from his deck in the final arc vs Zorc. That was confirmation. The Dark Side of Dimensions doesn't confirm anything new aside from related to Shadi and where the Gods were. And as always, I'm talking about the source material manga.
6:15 It's not discrediting when its a fact that Jonouchi wasn't beating Yami Malik skill-wise and story-wise. The manga showed the duel in detail. Yami Malik was in control throughout. Even after Jonouchi got a chance with Jinzo, Yami Malik countered immediately. After Gilford attacks, Yami Malik counters with a trap. Jonouchi's hand was dead due to Hellpoemer. He had 1 high level monster in hand before he drew Gearfried. Yami Malik had 2 choices: 1. Finish off Jonouchi in 1 turn with Ra. 2. Finish him off in multiple turns by reviving Lava Golem. Jonouchi was always going to lose so Takahashi chose the dramatic storytelling finish. It doesn't make any sense for Rishido to own and beat Jonouchi then for Jonouchi to beat Yami Malik. There's levels to this.
6:44 Credited? Funny how people saw Rishido own Jonouchi (the anime made Jonouchi look better than he is in the manga) proving he hadn't grown enough to beat a Ghoul level opponent and never give Rishido his credit, but because people have bias towards Jonouchi they want to credit him with beating Yami Malik.
9:37 Well, you're wrong.
9:44 The whole build up? You mean beating "normal" duelists then getting beat by Rishido, the right hand man of the leader of the Ghouls (Yami Yugi has to defeat) proving he still wasn't good enough. Let's not forget the Pier duel when he was controlled by Malik vs normal Yugi. Malik had only put a few burn cards in Jonouchi's deck. It was 99% Jonouchi's deck. Yugi countered every move he made and beat him, but because he has to save Jonouchi, he chose to suicide in order for Jonouchi's box to open. If you can't beat Yugi, you are not beating Yami Yugi, who is Yuugi Ou (Game King).
10:01 That is not what happened in the manga. Black Magician and Black Magician Girl were on the field after Yami Yugi beat Ra with Dimension Magic. Yami Yugi had all the cards to win like 2 turns prior to that turn.
10:06 - 10:20 Funny how you skipped Jonouchi losing to Rishido to push this narrative. And I corrected you in that video to which you showed you did not care and still pushed your narrative.
11:26 You also forgot to mention that in that chapter, Yami Yugi said Jonouchi won Duelist Kingdom when he actually didn't. But you want to ignore that Yami Yugi beats Jonouchi and still gives Red-Eyes back to him.
11:31 What were the requirements for Atem to go the afterlife? A King can only travel by dropping his sword. That meant he had to experience defeat. There's no point in Yugi dueling him if Jonouchi had already beat him. Heck, if Jonouchi did beat Yami Yugi, he would have bragged about it since he had lost 187 times to Yugi/Yami Yugi preparing for Duelist Kingdom. The whole manga showed Jonouchi wasn't on Yami Yugi and even Yugi's level and that Jonouchi's skill level is above a normal duelist, but not on the level of Yami Yugi (or even Yugi) who can defeat Ghouls while Jonouchi loses to them.
There are levels to this. It is Yami Yugi (Game King) > Yami Malik = Kaiba = Rishido = Yugi = Yami Bakura (I'll even throw in Yami Bakura for fun because he beats Jonouchi in the Final arc while Yugi beats him) = Exodia Ghoul >>>>>>>> Jonouchi > normal duelists.
You compare they decks they had back then there is no way Joey could beat Yugi's deck so I'm leaning on he did something to earn the respect of a true duelist or Yugi deliberately threw the duel. Give this is the anime so shenanigan are bound to happen. But by simply evaluating their decks, Joey at the time didn't have a consistent and cohesive deck. I just can't see him beating Yugi deck and winning.
Jonouichi best character in Duel Mosnters.
I can understand that!
It's been canonized that he beat Yugi because he has Red Eyes back in DSOD, which is a direct sequel to the manga canon.
I recommend you to watch the video. I talked about that topic.
@@MiruyaYT The title was phrased like a question so I answered it.
But it was confirmed that Yugi won in the anime, also they said in the manga prior to the final duel
He did.
Joey beat yugi for red eyes.
Joey has jinzo
No he didn't Joey can't beat all2 gods
@@leosnyder5264
Thaa not what I meant.
The unseen match between yugi vs joey after kaibas tournament.
Joey won.
And yugi never using egytian god card against Joey.
Yugi won
@@emperadormoctezuma3696
Nope.
Joey wheeler won against yugi
@@devilgirl7054 Yugi won, they said it in the anime
We never see Joey duel again after Battle City in the manga. The only duels in the last arc are Kaiba vs Bakura, Yugi vs Bakura, and Yugi vs Atem. And we don't see Joey with Red-Eyes in Dark Side of Dimension. So we will never have concrete canonical answer to this but it's safe to assume Joey never won his Red-Eyes back.
1. Kaiba vs Bakura was not part of the Manga
2. We literally saw Joey holding his Red-Eyes in front of Aigami/Diva in DSOD. That clip played multiple times in the video.
3. We see Joey possessing the Red-Eyes Black Dragon Card in the Millennium World Arc when he played it against Zorc. I also explained and showed it in the video.
Ummm joey said in dsod that he is running a red eyes centered deck at that point so yeah he def has his red eyes and it's safe to say he had a bunch of cards to power it and his warriors with minimal if any luck cards. By that point joey would've won and obtained a bunch of rare cards. Lol did you watch the movie?
For the record, Joey does duel after Battle City in the manga. He duels during in the Yugioh r manga, which takes place after Battle City.
I love Sakura
I love Bakura
Yeah, no. If joey won, he would've brought it up, especially with kaiba. Hed brag about it, joey is a very egotistical character, and theres no way he'd be quiet about beating the king of games. Definitely when kaiba talks down to him, hed have brought it up, but he doesn't.
And kaiba would be fuming that yugi would lose to someone like joey, someone kaiba not only lacks respect for, but actively contrmpts. And hed know about it, kauba has access to every duel fought on a duel disc, abd is obsessed with beating yugi. No way hes not reviewing yugis duels. Hed know if yugi lost.
Joey winning makes absolutely no sense with the characters, either their actions, or their skill levels.
Yugi actually wasn't going to lose to marik, marik had no cards to play after Ra was destroyed and it was going to be yugi's turn since ragnorak was activated during marik's turn.
It is a bit different in the Manga. Yugi didn't use a card like Ragnarok in the Manga and loses the Black Magician and the Black Magician Girl at the end of Mariks turn. So it is pretty open what would have happened. I'm just going by Yami Marik being sure that Marik can still defeat Yugi.
@@MiruyaYT That could of been more out of desperation than an actual fact.
@@MiruyaYT the magicians would be destroyed in the end of Yugi's turn. So marik would have lost
As one of the people who says Marik was just toying with Joey" I ALSO say that Joey still beat Marik outright. In fact, the reason I bring up the "Marik was toying with him" is more in relation to Marik's previous duels:
"Oh, if Mai had just attacked with Harpie Lady, she would have won!"
"Yes, and if Marik had attacked Joey earlier, HE would have won, but we all agree Joey deserved HIS win, yes?"
Now yes, Marik WAS toying with Joey and we see just how frighteningly competent he can be against someone he takes seriously when he duels both Bakura and Atem and completely duels circles around them. But this shouldn't take away from Joey's accomplishment. Instead, it shows just how far above where everyone THOUGHT he was that Joey actually was.
A thing that also comes to play is the whole „True Duelist“ Theme. Everybody who could have won, but didn’t because they didn’t want to wouldn’t be considered a True Duelist in my opinion. And Joey vs Marik showed this completely. Joey on his road of succeeding to become a True Duelist was about to win against someone who wasnt a True Duelist at all. I think that was greatly represented. And Marik would obviously not be a True Duelist since he doesn’t care about that kind of stuff. Otherwise he would have been so much stronger probably haha
@@MiruyaYT What I really like, is that Joey's journey to EARN his Red-Eyes is a fantastic mirror of the conflict between Yugi and other Millenium Item users.
Pegasus, Ishizu and the less crazy Marik used their items as a crutch. They relied SO MUCH on the powers that when forced to duel without them, they were helpless. Essentially hiding behind them.
Pegasus and Ishizu became so reliant on their items powers that they were helpless without them.
"You've lost the instincts of a duelist."
Marik hid behind the puppets he made from his Rods to never have to face the shame of losing.
All of them lost their items because they were not worthy.
Meanwhile,Yugi, the little Yugi, despite what the memes say, grew STRONGER with the puzzle. Every time he had to duel without Atem, or when he spoke up to help Atem, you saw him becoming more skilled, more competent. It's the exact same theme as with Joey and his Red Eyes.
This is why people who talk about Atem "cheating" don't really understand the theme of the series.
In Yu-Gi-Oh!, honour is not the "Paladin" style honour of being always upfront, honest and never using underhanded tactics. Lies, deceit and trickery are not only accepted, but ENCOURAGED.
What the series DOES condemn however, what it sees as dishonourable, is cowardice. In particular, cowardice in the face of what they fear.
Weevil was praised for luring Yugi into an area where he benefitted from the field spell, since it showed forward thinking and strategy.
But he was condemned for trying to destroy Exodia because it showed he was a coward, unwilling to face his fear of Exodia.
Atem is heavily punished for using the Seal of Orichalchos, not because it "turned him evil" (it didn't), but because he showed in that moment, that he would rather risk his soul than admit an honourable defeat. His pride (a recurring character flaw), unwilling to even CONSIDER the posibility of losing, he was too much of a coward to face that reality.
Then we come to the items, and AGAIN that theme is present.
If you show yourself worthy of the items, if you grow alongside them, you have the RIGHT to make use of them just as you would a God card. But should they become a crutch for you...
Side Note: This is more trivia, but Marik's shadow games technically AREN'T cheating, since he was under the exact same penalty Joey was (He felt the pain HIS monsters felt too, he's just a sadomasochist who likes feeling pain)
If you're both playing a game where BOTH players get to whack their opponent with a hammer when they win...
Well, it would be an absolutely brutal, violent and sadistic game that should be 100% illegalised by the judge.
But it wouldn't be cheating.
Joey didn't win. Cause just like the motive was to win to get the card back Yugi would have lost his title as The King Of Games which wasn't the case. Joey played a tough ass Duel and in the end Yugi got the best out of him but still gave him back the card.
The King of Games title has nothing to do with private Duels. It was more like a prize for them big tounaments
@@MiruyaYT you can't say that. Because if that was the case Kaiba wouldn't had been pissed that Yugi lost his King Of Games title to Raphael. They weren't in a tournament situation when it happened. It was never a time that Yugi lost clean other than that one time but it was no other time they referenced he could only lose that title via a Tournament. In that first movie it was kids who wanted to challenge Yugi and one of em said by winning they'll become King Of Games.
@@Mr60ina30 First of all: All of that is not canon to the Manga (And this video was about the Manga Storyline). The second thing is that we are talking about Kaiba here. Thats just a serious topic to Kaiba in the Anime there and I am pretty sure that he would be the only one seeing it as "giving the Duel King Title away". And in the japanese version of the movie was never said that they wanted to become king of games by beating Yugi. It was a "I wanna beat Yugi to get ahold of the 3 Gods" instead
My headcanon is it was a tie.
Interesting!
nice video as always :))
Thank you!