Something that I always consider when this case is mentioned is: anything Valentina says is questionable. There's just one witness under a lot of stress (both physical and emotional), who was subjected to the same environmental factors as the victims who died. If she was guilty of something sinister (I don't think so, but we still can't rule it out) she can say whatever she wants no one can contradict her. And even if she's innocent, human memory is highly unreliable, she could have false memories in both the first and the recent account.
I deleted my comment, for the simple fact that yours was much more well said. I just want to add that the fact that there is an implied “You can’t walk 40 miles in 2 days” statement. I’ve done so on various long term hikes in the Sierras, and John Muir trail (Change in weather forecast, etc). A good campfire video, but not a good video for research purposes 👍🙏
@fxdelusions77 Sorry, in those conditions and that terrain, the not-small group is not likely to make it 20 miles per day, especially consecutively. 2 buddies, expert hikers, and whose goal is to make time- yes. In more favorable conditions and terrain. I have no doubt that solo you certainly accomplished 20 miles/day.
@@joelspaulding5964 I’m simply stating fact vs unknown. Were they pushed, like many have claimed? The lead was known, by various accounts from other hikers and people in the industry, to push people beyond their capabilities. The problem is that there is not enough facts to say yes or no. You do point out very good reasons why it couldn’t be done, but in the end, no one knows sadly. The only person who survived has been so inconsistent with her statements, that truth is mixed up with inconsistency.
There's quite a bit of misunderstanding around chemical weapons here. "Gas" in the context of chemical weapons isn't gas as we typically understand it. Rather, it's atomized liquid that will behave much differently than a gas in the open atmosphere. Those weapons were designed to work in outdoor environments where wind is expected. They are effective to varying degrees in those conditions.
Chemical weapons are usually true gasses. Chlorine is the most common. You're thinking of 'nerve gas' which isn't a gas, but few people are confused about that.
@@knurlgnar24 A lot of chemical weapons work that way. They are still evaporating though and becoming a gas so I think we are splitting hairs here. It's done that way to increase the time it is an effective weapon. Using something that starts as a gas is hard to get it to stay where you want it like in a trench for example. So something that goes in as a liquid and evaporates creating a gas is far more effective.
@@Nilboggen As someone with US Army NBC training.... Nick is right. Many chemical agents are a fine powder or aerosolized liquid that is heavier than air and only take a few minutes to settle out of the air. still deadly, just not actually a "gas".
Did 12 years with the Canadian army. There is a training base that has an area you have to reduce speed to avoid kicking up chemical weapon remains in the soil. No active use of that are for chemical weapons test has been done in decades. I bet that they were exposed to contaminated water containing some kind of nerve agent or neurotoxin. A lot of it is desgined to be resilient to weather to some extent.
Agreed. The Russian gov was developing extremely toxic weapons during the First World War. They buried most of them in relatively remote locations. I’ve always thought that somehow the hiking group uncovered the nerve gas any it was quickly released and quickly dissipated. Just a theory tho.
Along these lines I had an aunt and uncle in a place in AK that found old uxo on their property that base eod wouldn’t remove due to residual from decades old chemical warfare training. There are also a decent number of places that are easy to access that would straight up peg a gieger counter that nobody would ever claim has problems with radiation getting left behin. There are plenty of experimental sites and training areas that will likely just remain classified forever even when they do get cleaned to a certain extent.
Personally, the fact that they were "foaming at the mouth and bleeding from the eyes and nose" seems to indicate that it was chemical or biological that caused their symptoms rather than hypothermia.
It's a symptom also of vibrational weapons, such as microwave guns etc. Force XXI stuff from a while back, not secret. They discontinued it in favor of the one that makes rioters throw up.
That, and the muscular dystrophy strongly point to contact contamination by VX or Sarin. Contact, not airborne. If it was on the rocks, and Valentina didn't touch the rock, problem is solved.
But is there any actual evidence of the bleeding eyes and foaming mouths other than one woman's word of it? Memories can and will get easily distorted, just look up the Thomas Quick case.
I love watching english speaking youtubers discovering russian mysteries, because 1)the struggle is fun, 2)english sources tell different narratives. You're actually challenged by transcribation of most of the words, it gives impression that sounds are more complicated than they are. You really only got some emphasyses wrong - it's KorOvina and ZalIsova, but rules on those things are based on vibes, so it's really ok for english speakers to be confused. And it's BuryAtia - for most of the time the last syllable is not accentuated. And or gosh your struggle with Komsomolskaya Pravda - if you are going to work with russian-based stories, you are going to encounter a lot of fucked up sources that rehash bullshit, we have a lot of low quality journalism on those things. You did a great job on this case, as you did with Dyatlov's!
Yeah, things get difficult enough when reading a different language, but (possibly badly) transliterated from a language that uses a different alphabet? You're pretty much screwed trying to pronounce it.
@@DeliveryMcGee The cyrillc is not so far from latin, but the rules for transcribing are fucked. What do you mean Снежная is spelled Sneznaya or Snejdnaya, english speakers are capable of pronouncing ж
hey, Russian girl here. heard about that story a lot of times, read something myself, so gonna add a few curious details: 1) first of all, take everything what Komsomolskaya Pravda wrote with a grain of salt. they had decent investigations in the past, but the reputation of this media is not the best - it's not a tabloid yet, but something close to it. also a lot of information in Russian sources is originated from a trashy TV show, which invited Valentina for an interview. 2) it's very weird that Krysin, one of the oldest and most experienced members of the group (except Korovina) and definitely the strongest physically (according to those who knew the group), fell down and died first. very, very strange. 3) Natalya Korovina, daughter of Ludmila, also was a hiker. in fact, she was hiking with another group in the very same dates and region, being 16 at the time. also Krysin has proposed to her shortly before the incident. she later said that after her mother's death she met with some unknown authorities who ordered her not to ask any questions about it and handed her some amount of money - enough to buy a house at the moment. also she said that she never saw her mother's death certificate or anything of the sort. surely, it was a pretty common way for Soviet government to deal with any kinds of incidents, but still has to be considered.
Yeah, the testimony right after the most traumatic event you have ever experienced at 17 is of course going to be different than the reflection of a seasoned middle aged person that had their entire life to work things out in their head.
Infrasound is fuckin scary man. Too many things that are colorless, odorless, and/or beyond the Human range of hearing are capable of killing us and I think that's just unfair
It honestly depends on the chemical agent if it was a test/accidental release. A lot of modern agents kill *VERY* quickly, some within 30 seconds. More importantly, part of the reason they're banned is because they can be very... inconsistent in distribution. I can absolutely see her being one of the luckiest women on earth and just somehow missing any areas of contamination. The symptoms are fairly consistent with some of the nastier nerve agents. The issue is that there's simply no way to tell 30 years later. Even the longest lasting chemical weapons tend to degrade by this point, so going back there is not going to give much in the way of signs. There might be some lingering contamination, but it'd be hard to sift out the signs from something else like airborne pollution coming up from lower elevations. Though, whatever the case, it seems to be something that the lead woman recognized and tried to get them out of the way of-whatever it was that was coming. That is, if we take the 2018 testimony completely at face value instead of considering that 25 years of time didn't change the memories-seeing as eyewitness testimony tends to change over time due to how memory works. I would also believe the 'got wind'd to death', though. It does fit the circumstances.
The fact that the leader was getting everyone up and getting them to go down to the tree line indicates to me that she had recognized something dangerous. Catabatic winds might be that dangerous thing. I also suspect a bit of sexist attitude on the part of authority and the other guides back in 1993, they told the story the way they heard it, not the way it was told to them.
Unrelated but I recently watched a streamer who is a coffee buff do a review of TH-camr coffee companies and he gave you guys a really high rating so I ordered some beans and they should arrive by Wednesday!
I just recently discovered your channel through wendigoon and I have to simply say: good job and keep it up. You guys have provided me the perfect kind of content to focus on my schoolwork and feel like I’m not just wasting my time on something I don’t care about, your commentary is funny and intriguing and I cannot say I’ve found many channels that go so deeply into their research. You guys rock
One of the cause I thought about since the first time I've heard about this incident and even before I learned there was a radio tower at the summit was lightning, and in particular "upward leaders" and ground currents, which would be a good fit for the symptoms experienced by the victims while being invisible when they happen. The survivor could have been saved by just standing in a safer spot than the others. Curiously, it's never considered when the incident is talked about, so maybe I get something wrong here😅
Yeah, radio towers aren't fully safe, and not knowing the design of this one I can't say much about it. But I've been around some that had signs warning you to stay away or get cooked with microwaves. It's an inverse square law thing. The closer you are the more cooked you get. Simply moving away might save you.
The podcast National Park After Dark covered a lightening strike case and it was pretty gruesome, I could definitely see that lining up with the survivor’s descriptions. There were varying levels of how the strikes affected them depending on where they were on the rock it struck and there were deaths and survivors even though they were all in fairly close proximity to one another. Edit: it’s the Half Dome in Yosemite National Park one if anyone wants to look into the details, I think they have more than one episode with lightening so I wanted to clarify but couldn’t remember the location at first.
Maybe I missed something, but is there any reason that "Don't let people know that they could randomly die in a freak weather phenomenon for some reason" wouldn't be an option for why the original version of the story tried to place the blame on human error?
I mean it's pretty common to not want to talk about things like that. For a couple years it's all you think about and you get so tired of people asking you about it and having to keep reliving it or people telling you how sorry they are and asking how you're doing, are you okay, stuff like that, reminding you that way. When you finally get through that and meet/talk to people who don't know about it or talk about it, it's a very refreshing, freeing thing. And just from your own perspective, once you get enough distance and have put it away, you don't want to bring it up because things like that come back like you're going through it all over again when you do, you re-remember every detail. It's how it is in my experience. So I don't talk about that or tell people I meet about it. I don't even talk to many of my old friends because I had to stop hearing and talking about that and it's like you start over from there. You're someone else now. You know? It's very very strange how it works. Not how you'd expect. Now it's still there but compartmentalized away, can deal with it but I don't take it out of the box often. Very strange thing
Agreed. Heck, it doesn't even need to be a test; Kazakhstan was one of the Soviets favorite testing grounds for weapons. It's very plausible that the group just happened upon some inactive ordinance without realizing it. An old gas shell buried in the dirt nearby, maybe. EDIT: For the purpose of public service, I will state, the USSR was definitely NOT the only country to do this, especially not with chemicals. Please be careful out there and know if the government of your country has been testing any kind of weaponry in your area at any point in time. Inactive ordinance is no joke!
Yeah saying it isn't true bc she survived seems not a hard fact. and one of that many surviving seems like it's possible she just got away. Maybe I'm misunderstanding it but the weapons testing/ gas coming down the mountain that wendigoon presented seemed logical to me too
I can assure you firsthand that 1993 was the second-worst year in Russia's whole recent (post-Soviet) history. Only the 1998 did managed to go atrociously enough to somehow surpass even the former in terms of how horribly broke (both financially, socially and almost physically) state and people were. And there is literally no chance that there would be any new weaponry being tested. I mean, the entire budget sector (Including even the management staff in major MIC facilities) literally had their salaries being delayed for up to 8 months because their salaries were atm basically the only remaining source of money, from which the govt was able to somewhat regularily pay the essential servicemen's wages. Imagine someone'd actually test some secret crap right in the middle of such a wild shitstorm. And especially outlandish to me seems an idea that someone - on purely altruistic basis, or maybe just for lulz, apparently - would really conduct scaled WMD field-testing, supposedly - of some obscure (or even cooler - of a totally novel) chemical agent. Even less likely it seems simply because see below. P.S .Ackchully, i've always thought it was an already fairly old "open secret" that soviet government had opted for BW as our 2nd-main WMD research program instead, subsequently also reappointing most of CW researchers to labs within our 3-letter guys - to work on now-famous very sneaky/much targeted stuff only.
When I first heard about this incident I tried to find if you had done a video about it and was so sad you hadn’t, cannot wait to watch this, super excited!
I have to say I really appreciate you putting photos of the people you're talking about throughout the video. I'm terrible with remembering names (way better with faces) and so many videos only include photos the first time they're mentioned. Makes it soooo much easier for me to follow what's going on!
I went hiking with a guide in 40-60 °F weather. It was raining. By the time we got to camp, we were all soaked. We were told to keep all our wet clothing on, wear it inside our wet sleeping bags, and that this would hopefully help us stay warm and our body heat would help dry out the wet gear. It was a cold and wet night, but by morning everyone was alive and well and we hiked back to the trailhead after breakfast. Wet gear, contrary to popular belief, is still going to be warmer than if you take it off. I am not experienced in winter camping, but going to sleep in wet gear is not an automatic death sentence, and if you are out in the woods, it’s about your only survival option. I contest the idea that they should have been dead by morning in 30 degree weather if their gear was wet.
Yes!!! They could make “cute” pet toy versions of all the cryptids that they’ve covered with an their logo embroidered on the toy’s butt. I’d buy any cat toy they’d have, especially if they had a Kentucky Goat Man and/or a Mothman.
I appreciate the maps! And I appreciate how much clearer the markings are now than some earlier videos. Maybe you could start with a pinpoint of where in the country it is though, even when you cover the US cases for your non American viewers :))
Yup usually I dislike watching cases Ive heard the story of multiple times. Same when some TH-camrs I watch cover known serial murders like Ted Bundy Gary Ridgeway ect
@@maryeckel9682 When I was undergoing CBRN training we got an auto injector with antidotes again nerve gas poisoning and were told that benzodiazepines should be taken as a profylax. They go for the same receptors so benzodiazepines will nullify the nerve gas effect.
@@maireadnic8280 Bensodiazepines and the active agent in nerve gas attached itself to the same receptor. So if it's occupied the nerve will not have the same effect.
3:47 y'all should make dog hoodies. Do I have any idea how that could work? No. Am I saying I would buy two in any and all designs released? _Nooooo._ Nooooo? Alright, yeah. I definitely would.
I don’t know if he’s still active, but please reach out to Archie’s Archives for any Russian mountaineering stories. He did not have a definite answer either, but could help you with the documents.
I'm not convinced that wind-induced infrasound caused spontaneous cellular decomposition and instantly killed a handful of adult humans. That's never happened to anyone else ever before in the history of Earth and I wouldn't bet on it being the truth of it, not that any of the other explanations are any more satisfying. Just don't buy it as even possible.
@@ExeOnInfinite it’s a fascinating phenomenon that I hadn’t heard of before. I do wonder if the presence of the transmitter might have played a role, interacting in some way with the wind phenomenon?
@maireadnic8280 Could be! I still have to do some reading on it because to be completely honest, I don't quite understand it, but initially it checks out! But yes, from what little i DO know, sound and 3d surfaces interact in bizarre ways, explaining why there was a survivor. It might have well have been due to the object's physical mass or its function affecting the phenomena somehow.
I don't buy into that explanation. I have never heard of a recorded case of any human being who has died from infrasound due to a blizzard. I think it's safe to say that it's an extraordinary claim. Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence. And to add insult to injury, add the rest of this story on top of it. What are the chances that a hot air balloon started flying around in fart circles and landed in a tarpit; meanwhile, everyone on board were eating French Toast when it happened. 😂 Hey, anything is possible when speculation gets to run rampant. "It was the fault of the wind." 😅
Right??? It also fits with her being so fucking secretive, like the government would def talk to her. We know at least that the government compensated the korovina daughter and told her to not talk about the case. Likely same for valentina
Could also have been to due with something like Microwaves or a near-silent frequency based weapon. There are so many weapon tests that could've been done, and most are basically war crimes.
"If I had a nickel for every time a group of Russian hikers died on a mountainside under mysterious circumstances" My head: _imagining Scrooge McDuck diving into a swimming pool of nickels_
I don't believe you! Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. In addition, I've never heard of anyone married to a woman from Burytania. Tic-tac-toe, a winner!
On the Wikipedia it lists the Yuba county five, dyatlov pass, and chivruay incident as being similar - I’ve never heard of the chivruay incident and the Wikipedia is very short. Yall should cover it!!!
He'll do a MUCH better job of it than Wikipedia, that's for sure! Nearly everything is incomplete or misinterpreted to the point of being false on that site. It's quite a sad case...
My personal theory is that Valentina lied in 1993 because she had just experienced an extremely traumatic event that she didn't understand and just wanted to get the media off her back so that she could just forget it ever happened, so she told a story the was more understandable than the truth.
I've always figured they just ran into mustard gas, because the gas turns moisture into an acid, but I don't know if mustard gas has a half life or not and if it does I don't know how long it lasts.
Could have been Nerve Gas. It's heavier than air, so it clumps up and flows, and it takes a long time to dissipate. Burning throat, bruised lungs, and excessive bleeding can all be caused by nerve gas, and the extremely localized effects also make sense.
@@matero9926 Thats a good theory. If they were cows instead of humans anthrax fits perfectly and is commonly found naturally in the area but cows symptoms aren't the same as humans symptoms.
It wouldn’t be mustard gas, soviets weren’t really into mustard gas in the 90s. That was prime nerve agent time. I strongly believe it was nerve agent.
freedom units forev--okay no i actually agree. it is becoming very common for celsius to be converted to fahrenheit nowawadays, i find it common sense to do it the other way, too. i'm 'murican but i enjoy learning the conversions
He's American, it's undestandable he occasionally forgets that the rest of the world operates on a sensible and methodical system as opposed to "Lets just stick 0 degrees at somewhere below freezing but above antarctic"
@34:21 I figured it's because Koravina liked to test and train people's abilities. 'Yeah, there's a shelter up that way, but let's pretend there wasn't. What should we do?'
just want to say, i’m always excited to see when you upload a new video, especially one where there’s so much confusion and misinformation out there. i always trust that you guys will put in the effort to do trustworthy research, and that can’t be said for a lot of other channels (and as a fellow history major i appreciate when people do good research :) ). so thank you for the time and effort you put into these, hope you keep uploading for a long time!
36:13 One possible explanation for the story changing is trauma. The mental trauma that would be inflicted from something like that occurring, especially to someone at that age, would be absolutely catastrophic. A common coping mechanism that the brain employs when trauma like this occurs is profuse and intense repression, blurring details in one’s memory. Something like this could explain why Valentina’s description of events changed, as well as why she was so hesitant to speak about it for not only so long but also to those she is closest to.
By touch would be odd, could've been tied to water or potentially a gas or excess chemicals on the ground. I'm not sure I've heard of a nerve agent that can spread outside the body without inhalation or consumption.
This is one of the few channels I will watch cover a story if I already know it. The focus on clarity and understanding rather than sensationalism often allows actual learning to take place.
Oh yeah, I remember this story! Who could forget? The hands down most chilling wilderness story I've ever heard. So glad you're covering this one! Always wanted someone to isolate the fact from the folklore. Thanks so much guys!!
Ya Know one key phrase keeps getting repeated ... Get to the Tree Line... cook in evenings in the Tree Line.. (cover from wind for fire...) ... usually experienced LOCALS are aware of strange happenings that may only occur during certain weather conditions or times of year ... they may have known about something from local lore that would have given them reason to "Get to the Tree Line" and yes I am factoring in that the Tree Line is exactly were most hikers will look for shelter or cover... I wonder if there is a local legend of a banshee or some such that causes death to those in the Alpine out of the tree cover. This would match the sound wave theory... if its happened there once then its happened before and usually there is some folk lore that may give more clues or details.
@@robvannoy2512 just a side-note, but given that it’s Samhain I wanted to mention that the bean síde (banshee), does not cause death, but is a harbinger. But like any síde (the “good people”, or fairies), it’s considered safest to give them a wide berth.
your videos and dedication to investigation and depth are unmatched in this field, love your videos man! Too often i find myself bipassing stories already covered by mrballen, wendigoon, and a few other select youtubers i enjoy watching. On the contrary, when i see yours pop up, i get excited to hear the story from your side. Your hair drives me nuts tho hahaha
Many channels have fallen to the spirit of distraction. They constantly sway off -topic , into gossip, or politics. When a channel does this, it's bait -and- switch , unfair to viewers . I don't want to wade thru unrelated rhetoric and rambling to get to the story. So, thanks for staying on -topic, and giving the viewer the right content.
*sighs* OK I'LL SUBSCRIBE. Kidding tho, this is very well made. As a former wiki editor, I can't resist the almost compulsive drive to get correct information.
Nerve agents cause the same symptoms. If Valentina didn't come directly in contact, it could be why she lived. She states in both accounts, she didn't try to help anyone.
About to start watching this video, but pausing before I get into it as I have always had one question that seems to be a rather unpopular one: How trustworthy is Valentina's account? I've never heard anyone discuss whether or not there was physical evidence of things like bleeding from every orifice or one party member bashing her own head against a rock. I know the autopsy found hypothermia, bruised lungs, and malnourishment but I've never heard mention of the kind of external evidence you'd expect to see based on the story we are always told. Looking forward to seeing if any of those questions are explored here once I press play! It's a strange incident and in my opinion even stranger than Dyatlov because of the survivor and her account of events. I do believe Dyatlov was an avalanche, not sure what to believe with this one. Mid-Watch Edit: WOW! This is why I've come to love Lore Lodge so much. Those questions are indeed explored and I'm hearing a much different account than I've EVER heard from any other video about this incident. If you see this, excellent work and thank you for this research!
The girl who survived has publicly stated she can't remember it clearly. A lot of what we do know... doesn't come from her, and is from the log books the other team made. My personal theory is they somehow poisoned themselves by foraging when their food ran low. How exactly that happened is hard to guess. But it's the theory that most fits what we know. As for Dyatlov... the original investigation, the one run by people with reason to make it look like an accident, concluded an avalanche was impossible. It says a LOT when the people who actually saw the site when it was fresh think it was NOT the case. And.. yes, a lot of people think that report is full of lies. But the main focus of that.. is the idea they're hiding the true cause of death... and avalanche is not something they have reason to hide. Avalanche is the sort of thing you'd expect them to want to use as a cover story when hiding something sinister... but they didn't even try to say that was the case. A lot of the commentary I've seen is basically the idea it was considered ludicrously unlikely. Ie it would strain credulity to use that as a cover story.
That's something I wander too. Even if she thinks she's telling the truth (which might not be the case), she might not be. Human memory is highly unreliable, especially under stressful situations.
@marhawkman303 Nah, I think the theory proposed here in this video about winds is more plausible than poisoning. Especially now hearing that the usual story we've been told in the west is not accurate. It doesn't seem unlikely at all that this was mother nature doing her thing. And I don't want to get into a Dyatlov argument here, but I also think mother nature is responsible and a slab avalanche makes complete sense based on all the evidence and testing of that theory I've seen over the past couple years. We will just have to disagree, because a debate over it here on this video would be silly.
@@marhawkman303 Can you point me to your source that a rare slab avalanche was suspected that early on in the investigation and evidence of such an event was not found? I only recall signs of a regular avalanche being absent from the site.
Theory Time! Hypothermia messes with blood platelets and causes a significantly reduced ability to coagulate: meaning, it doesn't *cause* bleeding; it exacerbates bleeding originating from external events. So, not hypothermia. I have no experience with katabatic winds so I can't speak to that. However, I have tons of hands-on experiences with hurricanes (looking at you, Mongolian cyclone) and the wind doesn't kill you -- or cause bleeding from every orifice. The floods will kill you, and what the wind throws at you can definitely kill you. Contrary to popular belief it's not the same as getting hit by a semi because semis have no give; high-force wind feels like getting smacked with a wet rubber towel. Can it hurt? YES, but usually you just blow along with it and whatever you bounce off of could potentially kill you. You don't stay still unless you're holding on to something. Still, no bleeding. The only things I found that caused the bleeding orifices(?) was genetic or non-viral diseases, rat poison (arsenic or mercury) or ebola. Which I found incredibly interesting. Here's why: All the symptoms of ebola line up with the hikers. Violent symptoms such as they had occur within 2-10 days. These individuals must have spent a lot of time together planning prior to embarking. They were teenagers; it's a mistake to assume there wasn't at least a little touching, food sharing, even clothing sharing going on in that time. Teenagers notoriously shrug off affection etc from their families during this phase but throw themselves at their friends -- whether fighting or fffffnot fighting. But more than just the mechanics of the virus, it's the timing. In 1992 I remember hearing about ebola scares every couple of years. What was actually going on was the research of ebola antibodies, with a short human trial that resulted in 4 people developing antibodies. Sorry, that's all I know because I quit there. Like I said, Research Lite. I was distracted by the thought of Russia, the Cold War and Monkey See, Monkey Do. Sure enough they too were researching -- only they admitted to 2 "lab contaminations" in 1996. I personally doubt the Russian civilian population knew what Ebola was in 1992 but admittedly that's speculation. I had Russian in-laws. HAD. Wasn't there a research facility close to that mountain? Like near the station the kids got off at? All it takes is one to have unsanitary bathroom habits. Perhaps Valentina's immune system was outstanding compared to her peers; it's not uncommon that a few people remain unaffected by seriously infectious diseases during serious outbreaks. Perhaps she was more of an outlier of the group and wasn't as close with the others. I can't begin to imagine what that was like to watch, and at such a young age. I was 19 that year and had my own devastations I was recovering from, but nothing that violent. The Soviet Union had just given way to Russia the year prior and I think everything she may have said (or not said) was absolute self preservation. It's what she knew; growing up, she was taught how to handle her government. It would hardly be a surprise if she decided to STFU and let the report read however they said it did. But I don't know. Maybe I missed something that debunks my whole theory. Let me know.
@@beelunder8433 That's an excellent question. It wouldn't. In that respect, I'd have to go back to it being something airborne -- such as gas ,etc. These things don't distribute evenly outside (think of times you've been near pepper spray). If you think about wind patterns at the personal level (the fleeting micro climate above a large puddle, or example, or even a thermal column), it's entirely possible a breeze could cut around some objects and be guided away from others in a manner of lopsided distribution. In any case I don't believe it was a targeted attack. It's always felt accidental to me but that's purely speculation. Gases are heavier than air; Sarin gas for instance is deadlier closer to the ground because it's heavy and it sinks relatively quickly. One of our main subconscious defenses against something unseen is that we hunker down. We don't know what's coming at us or where it's coming from so we make ourselves as small and invisible as possible. The freeze response -- followed by flight -- could have been factors in what saved Valentina. In which case, if it were a gas of some sort, I'd have to point back to the research center. Meaning, someone from the research center, possibly also outdoors. It could have been (wild speculation alert!!) something as simple as being told to dispose of something, with the person being in charge of the disposal taking the shortcut of pointing it out into the wind where it would normally have dissipated harmlessly, because Russia. No offense to the Russian people but this was a weird time in their history. As Americans, we've certainly had our share of our weird moments. We're having one now. (ahem...so is Russia. Just sayin') But this theory has its own problems: If we're honest, during that time all of Russia was a research center. Sometimes, the country was treated as a petri dish. Valentina could have experienced the best case of dumb luck imaginable. It's also problematic that a frightened 16 y/o girl wouldn't have been completely honest with the authorities. Anyway, the mystery continues. Thank you, for waking me up a bit! Sorry I took so long to reply (completely missed your question). This is exactly why I've always loved the unsolvable. If you forget just one little detail of a true mystery, your entire body of work often falls apart. Like juggling plates. Is it weird that I actually enjoy *not* solving puzzles? Or is that pretty common? Don't get me wrong; I'd love to actually solve one of these things, but for me it's just as satisfying when we don't. It means the mystery can go on.
I would say that it is likely that the dates were pre-fudged intentionally by the hikers as part of the process of having the hike count towards their skill awards. 40 miles in 3 days on a mountain is exceptionally unlikely. The deaths make a lot more sense if they were on old military go-go pills each morning instead of coffee. Sounds like they were skipping breakfasts... Understand that 200db infrasound would also have destroyed their red blood cells, left pulverization fractures in their teeth, finger tip bones, smaller toe bones and ruptured their spleens as well as left the men screaming from their testicles being destroyed. Remember that at full power the XF-84 produced sound from its propellers of over 200dB and if this infrasound theory was true the thunderscreech would have killed everybody near it in the same manner. Such a noise on such a scale would have registered on every seismograph on Earth and pulverized all the fluid containing foliage for about 2 miles around. All the above said... it is likely the transmitter tower was _unbelievably toxic_ from the on-site dumping of radiothermolpiles over the years.
Knowing a lot of military history from ww1 to current day, the first thing that came to mind when you explained the symptoms was VX or Novichok. Both agents were made in closed cities in that general area.
Way off in the mountains of eastern Siberia right after the end of the Cold War and the cops waited 2 weeks to investigate a nerve agent weapon being improperly disposed of/stored or a leak carried on the wind is a lot more believable than freak wind accident when they all died within moments of each other Not to mention research on novichok ended coincidentally in 1993
@@TheLoreLodge Unwilling test subjects lol. On the real tho it wouldn't even have to be active testing that killed them, contaminants of nerve gas is plenty and considering that they were testing nerve gas in that time frame is enough to make it plausible. Maybe the chick that survived recently took a benzo so the nerve gas couldn't activate in her like with the others. I think your explanation is probably the best, tho this is the Soviet Union we're talking about so you never truly know.
When it comes to russian territory, i feel like everything is possible. From underground nuke testing to whatever weapon testing. But as there was a survivor, why wasn't she affected? It makes little sense. These extreme winds and bad decisions by the leader are most likely the cause for this tragedy.
I watched a doco that theorised they ate some kind of herb that grows wild in Siberia and in small quantities it helps with altitude sickness but too much and it is fatal and causes hallucinations and symptoms described.this herb (im sorry i dont know the name of it) looks like oversize saffron. And the survivor didnt have a fatal dose.Maybe this is a possible explanation?
total amateur here with her valid opinion: when googled what to take with you to hike in mountains, 4000-6000 kcal is indicated as energy burned per day. These were teenagers, faster metabolism can be expected? When you mention 2400 kcal for day, it seems too small amount to me
it's the normal amount taken by tourists groups in the mountains, any tourist club in russia would advise you do the same. half comes from the food, half from your body. carrying more would be too heavy, and being in a caloric deficit for a limited amount of time wouldn't harm you in any way. their leader was experienced and knew what she was doing
Her accounts could have also been different because of the trauma of watching people die and her brain trying to protect her learning to her misremember/not able to remember enough
@TheLoreLodge Well the question is did they perform any testing, which I feel was fairly unlikely. However the ultrasonic wind theory may be the best answer in this case
The only explanation I can think of other than infrasound would be exposure to hydrogen cyanide, or cyanide gas. Hydrogen cyanide is produced from burning certain materials (e.g., plastic, rubber, cotton) and used in pesticides, and it's incredibly toxic. It's *extremely* unlikely, but possible, that the high winds carried a lethal concentration of hydrogen cyanide in the form of fumes/smoke. There are a ton of issues with my theory, primarily that I have no idea where the hydrogen cyanide would have come from, but it would explain a lot: -Alexander Krysin was bleeding from his orifices and foaming at the mouth, which is common in cyanide ingestion or exposure to cyanide gas. -Hydrogen cyanide targets the cardiovascular, respiratory, and central nervous systems. Lyudmila Korovina likely died from a heart attack, and many of the group members experienced paradoxical undressing, which is caused by vasoconstriction. Those same members were also grabbing/clawing at their throats, which indicates they were experiencing respiratory issues. -Hydrogen cyanide causes extreme pain when inhaled, which would explain why people were clawing at their throats and why Tatyana Filipenko slammed her head against a rock until she was unconscious. -Cyanide is usually only detectable up to a day or two and likely didn't show up in the autopsies for that reason. -I'm not a doctor, so I don't know if this accounts for the low protein presence and odd features of the autopsies, but cyanide binds itself to hemeproteins and certain enzymes. -The group members seemed to die in order from those that were higher up on the mountain to those that were lower on the mountain. The first two deaths were almost immediate, with one of them exhibiting symptoms that are more common in high exposure of hydrogen cyanide. The later deaths were slower and lacked any bleeding/foaming or immediate cardiac failure. It's possible that the wind was blowing in a way that distributed most of the hydrogen cyanide further up the mountain, and it lessened in concentration as it traveled downward. -It's possible that Valentina Utochenko only came to when kicked because she was experiencing confusion or close to passing out from the fumes, but it's more likely due to the shock of the situation. There are probably more connections I'm missing. To be clear, I think infrasound from the high winds (or radio tower, if you want to be a conspiracy theorist) is likely the cause, but I felt it was at least worth mentioning the similarities in the symptoms shown by the deceased. Again, I'm well aware of the flaws, but I'm curious to hear what you all think. Also, it goes without saying, but great job to the Lore Lodge boys for their incredible reporting.
A nerve agent like VX, one that was notably developed by the soviets, also has very similar exposure symptoms to cyanide gas/hydrogen cyanide. The soviet created nerve agent could've easily been recently tested by a group from the military base not too far from the area where everyone died. Thr scenario being: A group from the military base of military personnel & KGB agents go to an area at, or close by, where the hiking group camped and died at, they test the VX nerve agent, some of the nerve agent unavoidably seeps into the ground while in liquid form. Then, later on, when the group camps at, or near, the testing area, either the rain brings it out of the soil, the wind brings it from the soil, or a combo of both happened with the rain reliquidizing crystalized remains from the soil slowly, through the night and then the wind blows it around the following morning. Wind can be inconsistent, too, and would explain why Valentina could've survived. She just so happened to get lucky and coincidentally was standing in a spot where the wind wasn't as strong. Then when she reached the treeline and made camp, the trees would've broken up the wind and the nerve agent which would've only lasted in the air in gas form for a short time anyway. If there had been any traces in Valentina's body of exposure to VX nerve agent, when she was tested, the government would've hush hushed that right up so the tests can't be trusted. (Don't know why Aiden brought up a lack of poison/nerve agent exposure in Valentina's medical exam after her rescue as evidence when the government would've obviously kept that a secret if there had been any lol.) Although it's possible that after several days any traces had naturally left her system, too. Now, If the group was indeed k¡lled by either poison or nerve agent, I don't think they were exposed on purpose by the government/military. If it was actively being tested when they were camping on the mountain then the military would've been guarding access to the area and would've told them to turn around to not expose governmemt secrets to citizens. I think that it would've most likely been leftover poison/nerve agent from testing in or around the area that had happened a month or more before the incident. As for the inconsistencies between the 1993 and 2018 recounting of events by Valentina, the guy who took the 93 report could've been ordered by the government to change events in such a way that put full blame on the group's leader plus making sure they were all given normal causes of d3ath to cover up any possibility of people connecting it back to the government. (Which didn't work, but he tried 🤷♀️ Lmao)
@@LilyoftheLake14also there’s a Russian commenter here who’s been super helpful, supposedly it’s common knowledge among the Russian case followers that the government approached the Korovina daughter and told her to not comment on the case and gave her enough money to buy a house. Now, that was kind of common practice for the Russian government to do when any incident occurs, so it could just be compensation for the case being so high notoriety. However, it’s likely that they did the same to Valentina. And Valentina probably knew that it was government related as well.
@@theangledsaxon6765 Oh yeah! I remember seeing that comment which makes me think it's even more likely that the group was exposed to the remnants of a government chemical experiment. Also, that would explain Valentina's refusal to speak to the media or even to loved ones about the incident out of fear that the government would cause her to have a fatal ""accident"" or cause her to ""take her own life by stabbing herself 42 times in the back."" Valentina might've heard about Korovina's daughter talking to the press about the hush money and noticed that nothing bad happened to her. So, then Valentina felt safe enought to tell her husband and when the journalist came by a few years later she figured that she'd be okay as long as she didn't say too much and avoided any mention about the government. That would actually make a lot of the things that happened after the incident make logical sense! 🤯
The english retelling sensationalized, the russian one downplayed and hid important things and the lady's own retelling of her trauma (that a journalist literally forced her down) seemed the most coherent, though mysterious
Something that I always consider when this case is mentioned is: anything Valentina says is questionable. There's just one witness under a lot of stress (both physical and emotional), who was subjected to the same environmental factors as the victims who died. If she was guilty of something sinister (I don't think so, but we still can't rule it out) she can say whatever she wants no one can contradict her. And even if she's innocent, human memory is highly unreliable, she could have false memories in both the first and the recent account.
I deleted my comment, for the simple fact that yours was much more well said.
I just want to add that the fact that there is an implied “You can’t walk 40 miles in 2 days” statement. I’ve done so on various long term hikes in the Sierras, and John Muir trail (Change in weather forecast, etc).
A good campfire video, but not a good video for research purposes 👍🙏
Wr5
@fxdelusions77
Sorry, in those conditions and that terrain, the not-small group is not likely to make it 20 miles per day, especially consecutively.
2 buddies, expert hikers, and whose goal is to make time- yes. In more favorable conditions and terrain.
I have no doubt that solo you certainly accomplished 20 miles/day.
@@joelspaulding5964 I’m simply stating fact vs unknown. Were they pushed, like many have claimed? The lead was known, by various accounts from other hikers and people in the industry, to push people beyond their capabilities. The problem is that there is not enough facts to say yes or no. You do point out very good reasons why it couldn’t be done, but in the end, no one knows sadly. The only person who survived has been so inconsistent with her statements, that truth is mixed up with inconsistency.
Or she could have some kind of brain damage from whatever harmed the others.
There's quite a bit of misunderstanding around chemical weapons here. "Gas" in the context of chemical weapons isn't gas as we typically understand it. Rather, it's atomized liquid that will behave much differently than a gas in the open atmosphere. Those weapons were designed to work in outdoor environments where wind is expected. They are effective to varying degrees in those conditions.
Chemical weapons are usually true gasses. Chlorine is the most common. You're thinking of 'nerve gas' which isn't a gas, but few people are confused about that.
@@knurlgnar24 A lot of chemical weapons work that way. They are still evaporating though and becoming a gas so I think we are splitting hairs here. It's done that way to increase the time it is an effective weapon. Using something that starts as a gas is hard to get it to stay where you want it like in a trench for example. So something that goes in as a liquid and evaporates creating a gas is far more effective.
@@Nilboggen As someone with US Army NBC training.... Nick is right. Many chemical agents are a fine powder or aerosolized liquid that is heavier than air and only take a few minutes to settle out of the air. still deadly, just not actually a "gas".
I have gas
@@zameion90Nilbiggen DID have best comment I this thread; until your reply.
Always funny.
Did 12 years with the Canadian army. There is a training base that has an area you have to reduce speed to avoid kicking up chemical weapon remains in the soil. No active use of that are for chemical weapons test has been done in decades. I bet that they were exposed to contaminated water containing some kind of nerve agent or neurotoxin. A lot of it is desgined to be resilient to weather to some extent.
Agreed. The Russian gov was developing extremely toxic weapons during the First World War. They buried most of them in relatively remote locations. I’ve always thought that somehow the hiking group uncovered the nerve gas any it was quickly released and quickly dissipated. Just a theory tho.
"it's Russia so it has to be secret weapons"
Look, this is why everyone thinks Americans are stupid.
Along these lines I had an aunt and uncle in a place in AK that found old uxo on their property that base eod wouldn’t remove due to residual from decades old chemical warfare training. There are also a decent number of places that are easy to access that would straight up peg a gieger counter that nobody would ever claim has problems with radiation getting left behin. There are plenty of experimental sites and training areas that will likely just remain classified forever even when they do get cleaned to a certain extent.
Personally, the fact that they were "foaming at the mouth and bleeding from the eyes and nose" seems to indicate that it was chemical or biological that caused their symptoms rather than hypothermia.
It's a pretty classic indicator.
It's a symptom also of vibrational weapons, such as microwave guns etc. Force XXI stuff from a while back, not secret. They discontinued it in favor of the one that makes rioters throw up.
@@ShekinahGwaiiholy shit i kinda wanna see that
That, and the muscular dystrophy strongly point to contact contamination by VX or Sarin. Contact, not airborne. If it was on the rocks, and Valentina didn't touch the rock, problem is solved.
But is there any actual evidence of the bleeding eyes and foaming mouths other than one woman's word of it?
Memories can and will get easily distorted, just look up the Thomas Quick case.
I saw the video at got super excited and then realized I needed to wait another 16 hours. That is messed up man.
Fr 😆
Same😂
We’re gonna be on the road to Kentucky in 8 minutes so we had to schedule ahead of time haha
It makes the heart grow fonder.
@@TheLoreLodge Never stop using that nickel intro
I love watching english speaking youtubers discovering russian mysteries, because 1)the struggle is fun, 2)english sources tell different narratives. You're actually challenged by transcribation of most of the words, it gives impression that sounds are more complicated than they are. You really only got some emphasyses wrong - it's KorOvina and ZalIsova, but rules on those things are based on vibes, so it's really ok for english speakers to be confused. And it's BuryAtia - for most of the time the last syllable is not accentuated. And or gosh your struggle with Komsomolskaya Pravda - if you are going to work with russian-based stories, you are going to encounter a lot of fucked up sources that rehash bullshit, we have a lot of low quality journalism on those things. You did a great job on this case, as you did with Dyatlov's!
Yeah, things get difficult enough when reading a different language, but (possibly badly) transliterated from a language that uses a different alphabet? You're pretty much screwed trying to pronounce it.
@@DeliveryMcGee The cyrillc is not so far from latin, but the rules for transcribing are fucked. What do you mean Снежная is spelled Sneznaya or Snejdnaya, english speakers are capable of pronouncing ж
@@Sofka450trying to be as culturally sensitive as possible here.
HOW THE FUCK DO YOU PRONOUNCE TWO K'S FUCKING?
Well that and the russian govt covers shit up for funsies
In Soviet Russia even Wiki is too accurate!!!!!
hey, Russian girl here. heard about that story a lot of times, read something myself, so gonna add a few curious details:
1) first of all, take everything what Komsomolskaya Pravda wrote with a grain of salt. they had decent investigations in the past, but the reputation of this media is not the best - it's not a tabloid yet, but something close to it. also a lot of information in Russian sources is originated from a trashy TV show, which invited Valentina for an interview.
2) it's very weird that Krysin, one of the oldest and most experienced members of the group (except Korovina) and definitely the strongest physically (according to those who knew the group), fell down and died first. very, very strange.
3) Natalya Korovina, daughter of Ludmila, also was a hiker. in fact, she was hiking with another group in the very same dates and region, being 16 at the time. also Krysin has proposed to her shortly before the incident.
she later said that after her mother's death she met with some unknown authorities who ordered her not to ask any questions about it and handed her some amount of money - enough to buy a house at the moment. also she said that she never saw her mother's death certificate or anything of the sort.
surely, it was a pretty common way for Soviet government to deal with any kinds of incidents, but still has to be considered.
Can you point me towards some sources for the info on Krysin and Natalia? I was pretty limited by what I could find due to the language barrier.
It really does support the nerve gas theory very well if that was how the soviets handled it.
If you need saved from putang. Wink twice😂😂
@@victory8928yes and no. Keeping in mind that political climate of the time it makes sense why they would have liked to hide certain stuff like that
Interesting
maybe she gave a different account a second time because she finally healed enough to talk about it
Yeah, the testimony right after the most traumatic event you have ever experienced at 17 is of course going to be different than the reflection of a seasoned middle aged person that had their entire life to work things out in their head.
Or government pressure eased off, the USSR only fell in 91 this is 93
Or she was forced to testify differently back in '93.
Infrasound is fuckin scary man. Too many things that are colorless, odorless, and/or beyond the Human range of hearing are capable of killing us and I think that's just unfair
Yeah that "rip you apart at a cellular level" hit differently lol. Idk what that even means.
So unfair!
It really is. There's so much that we also just don't know yet too.
@@natesmith2408 Rly!! Don't know and don't wanna know.
It was an air burst from a Soviet weapons test. Duh.
It honestly depends on the chemical agent if it was a test/accidental release. A lot of modern agents kill *VERY* quickly, some within 30 seconds. More importantly, part of the reason they're banned is because they can be very... inconsistent in distribution. I can absolutely see her being one of the luckiest women on earth and just somehow missing any areas of contamination. The symptoms are fairly consistent with some of the nastier nerve agents. The issue is that there's simply no way to tell 30 years later. Even the longest lasting chemical weapons tend to degrade by this point, so going back there is not going to give much in the way of signs. There might be some lingering contamination, but it'd be hard to sift out the signs from something else like airborne pollution coming up from lower elevations.
Though, whatever the case, it seems to be something that the lead woman recognized and tried to get them out of the way of-whatever it was that was coming. That is, if we take the 2018 testimony completely at face value instead of considering that 25 years of time didn't change the memories-seeing as eyewitness testimony tends to change over time due to how memory works. I would also believe the 'got wind'd to death', though. It does fit the circumstances.
The fact that the leader was getting everyone up and getting them to go down to the tree line indicates to me that she had recognized something dangerous. Catabatic winds might be that dangerous thing.
I also suspect a bit of sexist attitude on the part of authority and the other guides back in 1993, they told the story the way they heard it, not the way it was told to them.
Unrelated but I recently watched a streamer who is a coffee buff do a review of TH-camr coffee companies and he gave you guys a really high rating so I ordered some beans and they should arrive by Wednesday!
What’s their channel?
I just recently discovered your channel through wendigoon and I have to simply say: good job and keep it up. You guys have provided me the perfect kind of content to focus on my schoolwork and feel like I’m not just wasting my time on something I don’t care about, your commentary is funny and intriguing and I cannot say I’ve found many channels that go so deeply into their research. You guys rock
You should check out the early videos too, there style had changed a bit over the 2 or 3 years but their QUALITY has only gotten better
_Puffins shed the colourful outer parts of_
_their bills after the breeding season,_
_leaving a smaller and duller beak._
The depth of research is ridiculously impressive to me every release
Welcome to the lodge! You've got a lot of good content to catch up on. Pro Tip: Don't skip the Native American history segments.
Ahh a fellow gooner
I feel goofy about this, but I would absolutely get a hoodie for my cat, she's old as dirt and has started to appreciate the warmer things in life.
Awww! I too have a geriatric kitty lol. Maggie is a 13 year old rescue and her absolute FAVORITE thing on earth is a warm, cozy nap 😂
@@alexandradenae777 I'm 78, and me too.
@@sagrammyfour Naps *truly* are the best 😂
Check the Kasznica case. There is three people who died - one student, father and son. The mother survive. Story from Poland.
I will check it sounds interesting
Same. I’m going to look it up next
One of the cause I thought about since the first time I've heard about this incident and even before I learned there was a radio tower at the summit was lightning, and in particular "upward leaders" and ground currents, which would be a good fit for the symptoms experienced by the victims while being invisible when they happen. The survivor could have been saved by just standing in a safer spot than the others. Curiously, it's never considered when the incident is talked about, so maybe I get something wrong here😅
Yeah, radio towers aren't fully safe, and not knowing the design of this one I can't say much about it. But I've been around some that had signs warning you to stay away or get cooked with microwaves. It's an inverse square law thing. The closer you are the more cooked you get. Simply moving away might save you.
The podcast National Park After Dark covered a lightening strike case and it was pretty gruesome, I could definitely see that lining up with the survivor’s descriptions. There were varying levels of how the strikes affected them depending on where they were on the rock it struck and there were deaths and survivors even though they were all in fairly close proximity to one another.
Edit: it’s the Half Dome in Yosemite National Park one if anyone wants to look into the details, I think they have more than one episode with lightening so I wanted to clarify but couldn’t remember the location at first.
@@lisahoshowsky4251 yeah indirect lightning hits are.. weird.. to say the least.
I wonder about this. Here In Colorado, we get snow and lightning you don't want to be above tree line in that
Maybe I missed something, but is there any reason that "Don't let people know that they could randomly die in a freak weather phenomenon for some reason" wouldn't be an option for why the original version of the story tried to place the blame on human error?
Yeah, the idea that a lightning storm can just... zap the power grid offline is... not reassuring.
A. Note to self: never ever go on any sort of hike in the Russian mountains
B. Holy cr@p Valentina didn't tell her husband about her experience
I mean it's pretty common to not want to talk about things like that. For a couple years it's all you think about and you get so tired of people asking you about it and having to keep reliving it or people telling you how sorry they are and asking how you're doing, are you okay, stuff like that, reminding you that way. When you finally get through that and meet/talk to people who don't know about it or talk about it, it's a very refreshing, freeing thing. And just from your own perspective, once you get enough distance and have put it away, you don't want to bring it up because things like that come back like you're going through it all over again when you do, you re-remember every detail. It's how it is in my experience. So I don't talk about that or tell people I meet about it. I don't even talk to many of my old friends because I had to stop hearing and talking about that and it's like you start over from there. You're someone else now. You know? It's very very strange how it works. Not how you'd expect. Now it's still there but compartmentalized away, can deal with it but I don't take it out of the box often. Very strange thing
"Holy crap, my Val might have offed them all!"
@@snarklar _Dissociating from traumatic memories as a form of coping mechanism and psychological healing process?_
Russia has tens of millions of hikes every year and all of two such cases.
@@oompalumpus699it’s the oldest and most effective way!
The fact Archie doesn't have a hoodie is criminal
Archie isn't cold, but he needs the stylin' that hoodie would provide.
They'll be hearing from my lawyers
Some people don’t like putting cloths on animals
If you're cold their cold. Get them a sweater.
@ so when did you start growing hair all over you’re body and insulating heat better
I think Wendigoon made a reasonable argument for the weapons testing angle
Agreed. Heck, it doesn't even need to be a test; Kazakhstan was one of the Soviets favorite testing grounds for weapons. It's very plausible that the group just happened upon some inactive ordinance without realizing it. An old gas shell buried in the dirt nearby, maybe.
EDIT: For the purpose of public service, I will state, the USSR was definitely NOT the only country to do this, especially not with chemicals. Please be careful out there and know if the government of your country has been testing any kind of weaponry in your area at any point in time. Inactive ordinance is no joke!
Yeah saying it isn't true bc she survived seems not a hard fact. and one of that many surviving seems like it's possible she just got away. Maybe I'm misunderstanding it but the weapons testing/ gas coming down the mountain that wendigoon presented seemed logical to me too
Agreed
I can assure you firsthand that 1993 was the second-worst year in Russia's whole recent (post-Soviet) history. Only the 1998 did managed to go atrociously enough to somehow surpass even the former in terms of how horribly broke (both financially, socially and almost physically) state and people were. And there is literally no chance that there would be any new weaponry being tested. I mean, the entire budget sector (Including even the management staff in major MIC facilities) literally had their salaries being delayed for up to 8 months because their salaries were atm basically the only remaining source of money, from which the govt was able to somewhat regularily pay the essential servicemen's wages.
Imagine someone'd actually test some secret crap right in the middle of such a wild shitstorm. And especially outlandish to me seems an idea that someone - on purely altruistic basis, or maybe just for lulz, apparently - would really conduct scaled WMD field-testing, supposedly - of some obscure (or even cooler - of a totally novel) chemical agent. Even less likely it seems simply because see below.
P.S .Ackchully, i've always thought it was an already fairly old "open secret" that soviet government had opted for BW as our 2nd-main WMD research program instead, subsequently also reappointing most of CW researchers to labs within our 3-letter guys - to work on now-famous very sneaky/much targeted stuff only.
@ holy shit go to bed or smoke a blunt
When I first heard about this incident I tried to find if you had done a video about it and was so sad you hadn’t, cannot wait to watch this, super excited!
I have to say I really appreciate you putting photos of the people you're talking about throughout the video. I'm terrible with remembering names (way better with faces) and so many videos only include photos the first time they're mentioned. Makes it soooo much easier for me to follow what's going on!
The cameos of both your girlfriends wearing your gear was a cute touch.
But where were his two wives?
I thought they were his two moms..
The boys have learned from Eli the importance of visual retention beats
And the cute dog! ❤
I’m confuseddddd who are they lol
I went hiking with a guide in 40-60 °F weather. It was raining. By the time we got to camp, we were all soaked. We were told to keep all our wet clothing on, wear it inside our wet sleeping bags, and that this would hopefully help us stay warm and our body heat would help dry out the wet gear. It was a cold and wet night, but by morning everyone was alive and well and we hiked back to the trailhead after breakfast.
Wet gear, contrary to popular belief, is still going to be warmer than if you take it off. I am not experienced in winter camping, but going to sleep in wet gear is not an automatic death sentence, and if you are out in the woods, it’s about your only survival option. I contest the idea that they should have been dead by morning in 30 degree weather if their gear was wet.
Looks like Aiden is up Loring the old Lodge
He's waiting for that Wendussy
Petition to start making leaders of hiking trips keep captain's log books.
I appreciate the wholesome advert, I do have some notes. All of said notes are I'm going to need to see more of the doggo, just an entire video.
Yes!!! They could make “cute” pet toy versions of all the cryptids that they’ve covered with an their logo embroidered on the toy’s butt.
I’d buy any cat toy they’d have, especially if they had a Kentucky Goat Man and/or a Mothman.
I second this motion
I request a dog livestream
I found this channel with the upload last week. Since then ive watched every video youve uploaded in the last year, good stuff 👍
I appreciate the maps! And I appreciate how much clearer the markings are now than some earlier videos. Maybe you could start with a pinpoint of where in the country it is though, even when you cover the US cases for your non American viewers :))
I don’t normally comment but you’re the only TH-camr that I will watch even if I already know a lot about the topic.
Same!
Yup usually I dislike watching cases Ive heard the story of multiple times. Same when some TH-camrs I watch cover known serial murders like Ted Bundy Gary Ridgeway ect
12:49 Typical symptoms of nerve gas poisoning. Did the girl who survived take any form of benzodiazepines?
Would that have protected her?
@@maryeckel9682 I’m curious too?
@@maryeckel9682 When I was undergoing CBRN training we got an auto injector with antidotes again nerve gas poisoning and were told that benzodiazepines should be taken as a profylax.
They go for the same receptors so benzodiazepines will nullify the nerve gas effect.
@@maryeckel9682 yes. My answer was removed by youtube
@@maireadnic8280 Bensodiazepines and the active agent in nerve gas attached itself to the same receptor. So if it's occupied the nerve will not have the same effect.
Listening to this as soon as I'm home, this is way more interesting than dyatlov pass
3:47 y'all should make dog hoodies. Do I have any idea how that could work? No. Am I saying I would buy two in any and all designs released? _Nooooo._ Nooooo? Alright, yeah. I definitely would.
FINALLY, I have been waiting for coverage on this case! Learned a few things I didn't know. Nice work! Merch looks sick, too.
Every Friday I get so excited cus I get to hear about another mystery
I don’t know if he’s still active, but please reach out to Archie’s Archives for any Russian mountaineering stories. He did not have a definite answer either, but could help you with the documents.
The wind explanation is the best one I've heard so far.
Yeah, me too
I'm not convinced that wind-induced infrasound caused spontaneous cellular decomposition and instantly killed a handful of adult humans. That's never happened to anyone else ever before in the history of Earth and I wouldn't bet on it being the truth of it, not that any of the other explanations are any more satisfying. Just don't buy it as even possible.
@@ExeOnInfinite it’s a fascinating phenomenon that I hadn’t heard of before.
I do wonder if the presence of the transmitter might have played a role, interacting in some way with the wind phenomenon?
@maireadnic8280 Could be! I still have to do some reading on it because to be completely honest, I don't quite understand it, but initially it checks out!
But yes, from what little i DO know, sound and 3d surfaces interact in bizarre ways, explaining why there was a survivor. It might have well have been due to the object's physical mass or its function affecting the phenomena somehow.
I don't buy into that explanation. I have never heard of a recorded case of any human being who has died from infrasound due to a blizzard. I think it's safe to say that it's an extraordinary claim. Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence. And to add insult to injury, add the rest of this story on top of it. What are the chances that a hot air balloon started flying around in fart circles and landed in a tarpit; meanwhile, everyone on board were eating French Toast when it happened. 😂 Hey, anything is possible when speculation gets to run rampant. "It was the fault of the wind." 😅
Honestly, this whole thing sounds like a nerve agent
....the pulmonary and liver changes are like... classic poison
Also, it's always safe to assume that Russian authorities are lying. Even when there doesn't seem to be a purpose.
@@corporalsoletrain2132Appearances are important. Note that the master hiking certification makes it all about “tourism.”
Right??? It also fits with her being so fucking secretive, like the government would def talk to her. We know at least that the government compensated the korovina daughter and told her to not talk about the case. Likely same for valentina
Could also have been to due with something like Microwaves or a near-silent frequency based weapon. There are so many weapon tests that could've been done, and most are basically war crimes.
"If I had a nickel for every time a group of Russian hikers died on a mountainside under mysterious circumstances"
My head: _imagining Scrooge McDuck diving into a swimming pool of nickels_
Another great video, guys! 😊👍
Yo, my wife is from Buryatia. This story is very famous there.
I don't believe you! Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. In addition, I've never heard of anyone married to a woman from Burytania.
Tic-tac-toe, a winner!
@@Trollificusv2 What is your comment even supposed to mean? Burytania?
@@Trollificusv2yo are you a bot
No they're a troll, even got troll in their name @@Unfunnyham
On the Wikipedia it lists the Yuba county five, dyatlov pass, and chivruay incident as being similar - I’ve never heard of the chivruay incident and the Wikipedia is very short. Yall should cover it!!!
We’re gonna be doing that one too!
@ I’m excited!!!
He'll do a MUCH better job of it than Wikipedia, that's for sure! Nearly everything is incomplete or misinterpreted to the point of being false on that site. It's quite a sad case...
@ I’m sure! Wikipedia can be super helpful but it’s definitely not the best and I adore the way that this channel covers everything
My personal theory is that Valentina lied in 1993 because she had just experienced an extremely traumatic event that she didn't understand and just wanted to get the media off her back so that she could just forget it ever happened, so she told a story the was more understandable than the truth.
Генеральный секретарь, случился второй перевал Дятлова!
Hahahaha good one man!
ну да - это бывает
Ыуат!
I've always figured they just ran into mustard gas, because the gas turns moisture into an acid, but I don't know if mustard gas has a half life or not and if it does I don't know how long it lasts.
Could have been Nerve Gas. It's heavier than air, so it clumps up and flows, and it takes a long time to dissipate. Burning throat, bruised lungs, and excessive bleeding can all be caused by nerve gas, and the extremely localized effects also make sense.
@@matero9926 Thats a good theory. If they were cows instead of humans anthrax fits perfectly and is commonly found naturally in the area but cows symptoms aren't the same as humans symptoms.
It wouldn’t be mustard gas, soviets weren’t really into mustard gas in the 90s. That was prime nerve agent time. I strongly believe it was nerve agent.
Don't worry about pronunciation, half of those topographical names are transcription of different languages spoken by local people.
Same with a lot of places in america with indian names they were just kept
@@TheRealRusDaddyThank you for keeping the original Native American place names. 🙏
Great video lore lads
But please in the future add a celsius subtitle because as a non-American, 30 degrees is a warm day
freedom units forev--okay no i actually agree. it is becoming very common for celsius to be converted to fahrenheit nowawadays, i find it common sense to do it the other way, too. i'm 'murican but i enjoy learning the conversions
For anyone who wants to know:
30°F = -1°C
😊
He's been doing that in the last handful of videos, I wonder why he forgot in this video.
He's American, it's undestandable he occasionally forgets that the rest of the world operates on a sensible and methodical system as opposed to "Lets just stick 0 degrees at somewhere below freezing but above antarctic"
@@lacorbeau Dude, it only you and the Myanmar that uses Retard Units in the entire world. Get a grip, get into the 2nd millenium, damnit.
@34:21 I figured it's because Koravina liked to test and train people's abilities. 'Yeah, there's a shelter up that way, but let's pretend there wasn't. What should we do?'
just want to say, i’m always excited to see when you upload a new video, especially one where there’s so much confusion and misinformation out there. i always trust that you guys will put in the effort to do trustworthy research, and that can’t be said for a lot of other channels (and as a fellow history major i appreciate when people do good research :) ). so thank you for the time and effort you put into these, hope you keep uploading for a long time!
Gotta say i love the little quips you throw in at the beginning of your videos. They never fail to make me smile.
if those doggone wonderful hoodies are around in a week from this day I will most certainly be a proud new purchaser of a few lore lodge hoodies!!!!
We have a great supplier so they’ll definitely be in stock!
Yet another incredibly well researched video aidins
36:13
One possible explanation for the story changing is trauma. The mental trauma that would be inflicted from something like that occurring, especially to someone at that age, would be absolutely catastrophic. A common coping mechanism that the brain employs when trauma like this occurs is profuse and intense repression, blurring details in one’s memory. Something like this could explain why Valentina’s description of events changed, as well as why she was so hesitant to speak about it for not only so long but also to those she is closest to.
You and your crew do very fine work sir....Ty
The infrasound theory is wild. Never heard of anything like that. What about the theory that it was a nerve agent spread by touch?
By touch would be odd, could've been tied to water or potentially a gas or excess chemicals on the ground. I'm not sure I've heard of a nerve agent that can spread outside the body without inhalation or consumption.
Love your videos! Aiden you are an amazing researcher and storyteller! Your videos get me through work everyday! God bless!
It's always hoodie season in the PNW... Except for like 4 days.
Pacific Westnorth
@Catman_CM shhh
@@Sommyie >_>;
A merch commercial. A Comm-Merch-al, if you will.
I'm proud of what I did, and I will NOT be seeing myself out.
🪑🪑
High winds could have been why the didnt camp in the timber: trees could blow down and crush the tents?
This is one of the few channels I will watch cover a story if I already know it. The focus on clarity and understanding rather than sensationalism often allows actual learning to take place.
Oh this is such an interesting story hopefully I can sit in on the live.
Oh yeah, I remember this story! Who could forget? The hands down most chilling wilderness story I've ever heard. So glad you're covering this one! Always wanted someone to isolate the fact from the folklore. Thanks so much guys!!
Ya Know one key phrase keeps getting repeated ... Get to the Tree Line... cook in evenings in the Tree Line.. (cover from wind for fire...) ... usually experienced LOCALS are aware of strange happenings that may only occur during certain weather conditions or times of year ... they may have known about something from local lore that would have given them reason to "Get to the Tree Line" and yes I am factoring in that the Tree Line is exactly were most hikers will look for shelter or cover... I wonder if there is a local legend of a banshee or some such that causes death to those in the Alpine out of the tree cover. This would match the sound wave theory... if its happened there once then its happened before and usually there is some folk lore that may give more clues or details.
@@robvannoy2512 just a side-note, but given that it’s Samhain I wanted to mention that the bean síde (banshee), does not cause death, but is a harbinger. But like any síde (the “good people”, or fairies), it’s considered safest to give them a wide berth.
So glad you guys branched out again ❤
Good video
Just so you know Lyudmila's surname is pronounced with stress on the second syllable, so like KorOvina. Love the video!
your videos and dedication to investigation and depth are unmatched in this field, love your videos man! Too often i find myself bipassing stories already covered by mrballen, wendigoon, and a few other select youtubers i enjoy watching. On the contrary, when i see yours pop up, i get excited to hear the story from your side. Your hair drives me nuts tho hahaha
Many channels have fallen to the spirit of distraction.
They constantly sway off -topic , into gossip, or politics.
When a channel does this, it's bait -and- switch , unfair to viewers . I don't want to wade thru unrelated rhetoric and rambling
to get to the story.
So, thanks for staying on -topic, and giving the viewer the right content.
*sighs* OK I'LL SUBSCRIBE.
Kidding tho, this is very well made. As a former wiki editor, I can't resist the almost compulsive drive to get correct information.
A wiki-editor is a lame claim to fame, homie. I'm a Grammar Nazi, another lame claim to fame. But, ayyyyyyy. High five and a bro hug, ayyy?
Nerve agents cause the same symptoms. If Valentina didn't come directly in contact, it could be why she lived. She states in both accounts, she didn't try to help anyone.
Okay, I'm very excited about a new podcast, yes please ...also definitely need me a new hoodie, perfect timing
About to start watching this video, but pausing before I get into it as I have always had one question that seems to be a rather unpopular one: How trustworthy is Valentina's account? I've never heard anyone discuss whether or not there was physical evidence of things like bleeding from every orifice or one party member bashing her own head against a rock. I know the autopsy found hypothermia, bruised lungs, and malnourishment but I've never heard mention of the kind of external evidence you'd expect to see based on the story we are always told.
Looking forward to seeing if any of those questions are explored here once I press play! It's a strange incident and in my opinion even stranger than Dyatlov because of the survivor and her account of events. I do believe Dyatlov was an avalanche, not sure what to believe with this one.
Mid-Watch Edit: WOW! This is why I've come to love Lore Lodge so much. Those questions are indeed explored and I'm hearing a much different account than I've EVER heard from any other video about this incident. If you see this, excellent work and thank you for this research!
The girl who survived has publicly stated she can't remember it clearly. A lot of what we do know... doesn't come from her, and is from the log books the other team made.
My personal theory is they somehow poisoned themselves by foraging when their food ran low. How exactly that happened is hard to guess. But it's the theory that most fits what we know.
As for Dyatlov... the original investigation, the one run by people with reason to make it look like an accident, concluded an avalanche was impossible. It says a LOT when the people who actually saw the site when it was fresh think it was NOT the case. And.. yes, a lot of people think that report is full of lies. But the main focus of that.. is the idea they're hiding the true cause of death... and avalanche is not something they have reason to hide. Avalanche is the sort of thing you'd expect them to want to use as a cover story when hiding something sinister... but they didn't even try to say that was the case. A lot of the commentary I've seen is basically the idea it was considered ludicrously unlikely. Ie it would strain credulity to use that as a cover story.
That's something I wander too. Even if she thinks she's telling the truth (which might not be the case), she might not be. Human memory is highly unreliable, especially under stressful situations.
@marhawkman303 Nah, I think the theory proposed here in this video about winds is more plausible than poisoning. Especially now hearing that the usual story we've been told in the west is not accurate. It doesn't seem unlikely at all that this was mother nature doing her thing.
And I don't want to get into a Dyatlov argument here, but I also think mother nature is responsible and a slab avalanche makes complete sense based on all the evidence and testing of that theory I've seen over the past couple years. We will just have to disagree, because a debate over it here on this video would be silly.
@@MadameCirce Th problem with the slab idea is... it would leave behind a slab. the people investigating would have SEEN the slab. There wasn't one.
@@marhawkman303 Can you point me to your source that a rare slab avalanche was suspected that early on in the investigation and evidence of such an event was not found? I only recall signs of a regular avalanche being absent from the site.
Love how the music plays him off as he keeps rambling about his coffee.
Mothman. It was Mothman. Mothman did it.
Mothman is deeply saddened by these accusations. Mothman is a benevolent entity.
Lets talk bout yo mama😅
I'm loving the evolution of the Nickles meme. xD Never fails to get a laugh out of me the worse it gets!
Theory Time!
Hypothermia messes with blood platelets and causes a significantly reduced ability to coagulate: meaning, it doesn't *cause* bleeding; it exacerbates bleeding originating from external events. So, not hypothermia.
I have no experience with katabatic winds so I can't speak to that. However, I have tons of hands-on experiences with hurricanes (looking at you, Mongolian cyclone) and the wind doesn't kill you -- or cause bleeding from every orifice. The floods will kill you, and what the wind throws at you can definitely kill you. Contrary to popular belief it's not the same as getting hit by a semi because semis have no give; high-force wind feels like getting smacked with a wet rubber towel. Can it hurt? YES, but usually you just blow along with it and whatever you bounce off of could potentially kill you. You don't stay still unless you're holding on to something. Still, no bleeding.
The only things I found that caused the bleeding orifices(?) was genetic or non-viral diseases, rat poison (arsenic or mercury) or ebola. Which I found incredibly interesting. Here's why:
All the symptoms of ebola line up with the hikers. Violent symptoms such as they had occur within 2-10 days. These individuals must have spent a lot of time together planning prior to embarking. They were teenagers; it's a mistake to assume there wasn't at least a little touching, food sharing, even clothing sharing going on in that time. Teenagers notoriously shrug off affection etc from their families during this phase but throw themselves at their friends -- whether fighting or fffffnot fighting. But more than just the mechanics of the virus, it's the timing.
In 1992 I remember hearing about ebola scares every couple of years. What was actually going on was the research of ebola antibodies, with a short human trial that resulted in 4 people developing antibodies. Sorry, that's all I know because I quit there. Like I said, Research Lite. I was distracted by the thought of Russia, the Cold War and Monkey See, Monkey Do. Sure enough they too were researching -- only they admitted to 2 "lab contaminations" in 1996. I personally doubt the Russian civilian population knew what Ebola was in 1992 but admittedly that's speculation. I had Russian in-laws. HAD. Wasn't there a research facility close to that mountain? Like near the station the kids got off at? All it takes is one to have unsanitary bathroom habits.
Perhaps Valentina's immune system was outstanding compared to her peers; it's not uncommon that a few people remain unaffected by seriously infectious diseases during serious outbreaks. Perhaps she was more of an outlier of the group and wasn't as close with the others. I can't begin to imagine what that was like to watch, and at such a young age. I was 19 that year and had my own devastations I was recovering from, but nothing that violent. The Soviet Union had just given way to Russia the year prior and I think everything she may have said (or not said) was absolute self preservation. It's what she knew; growing up, she was taught how to handle her government. It would hardly be a surprise if she decided to STFU and let the report read however they said it did.
But I don't know. Maybe I missed something that debunks my whole theory. Let me know.
genuine question- how would your theory explain everyone dying with minutes of each other?
@@beelunder8433 That's an excellent question. It wouldn't.
In that respect, I'd have to go back to it being something airborne -- such as gas ,etc. These things don't distribute evenly outside (think of times you've been near pepper spray). If you think about wind patterns at the personal level (the fleeting micro climate above a large puddle, or example, or even a thermal column), it's entirely possible a breeze could cut around some objects and be guided away from others in a manner of lopsided distribution. In any case I don't believe it was a targeted attack. It's always felt accidental to me but that's purely speculation.
Gases are heavier than air; Sarin gas for instance is deadlier closer to the ground because it's heavy and it sinks relatively quickly. One of our main subconscious defenses against something unseen is that we hunker down. We don't know what's coming at us or where it's coming from so we make ourselves as small and invisible as possible. The freeze response -- followed by flight -- could have been factors in what saved Valentina.
In which case, if it were a gas of some sort, I'd have to point back to the research center. Meaning, someone from the research center, possibly also outdoors. It could have been (wild speculation alert!!) something as simple as being told to dispose of something, with the person being in charge of the disposal taking the shortcut of pointing it out into the wind where it would normally have dissipated harmlessly, because Russia. No offense to the Russian people but this was a weird time in their history. As Americans, we've certainly had our share of our weird moments. We're having one now.
(ahem...so is Russia. Just sayin')
But this theory has its own problems: If we're honest, during that time all of Russia was a research center. Sometimes, the country was treated as a petri dish. Valentina could have experienced the best case of dumb luck imaginable. It's also problematic that a frightened 16 y/o girl wouldn't have been completely honest with the authorities. Anyway, the mystery continues.
Thank you, for waking me up a bit! Sorry I took so long to reply (completely missed your question). This is exactly why I've always loved the unsolvable. If you forget just one little detail of a true mystery, your entire body of work often falls apart. Like juggling plates. Is it weird that I actually enjoy *not* solving puzzles? Or is that pretty common? Don't get me wrong; I'd love to actually solve one of these things, but for me it's just as satisfying when we don't. It means the mystery can go on.
I am happy to see you guys keeping up good work..love your content
I would say that it is likely that the dates were pre-fudged intentionally by the hikers as part of the process of having the hike count towards their skill awards. 40 miles in 3 days on a mountain is exceptionally unlikely.
The deaths make a lot more sense if they were on old military go-go pills each morning instead of coffee. Sounds like they were skipping breakfasts...
Understand that 200db infrasound would also have destroyed their red blood cells, left pulverization fractures in their teeth, finger tip bones, smaller toe bones and ruptured their spleens as well as left the men screaming from their testicles being destroyed. Remember that at full power the XF-84 produced sound from its propellers of over 200dB and if this infrasound theory was true the thunderscreech would have killed everybody near it in the same manner. Such a noise on such a scale would have registered on every seismograph on Earth and pulverized all the fluid containing foliage for about 2 miles around.
All the above said... it is likely the transmitter tower was _unbelievably toxic_ from the on-site dumping of radiothermolpiles over the years.
finally! I'm glad you covered this case.
Knowing a lot of military history from ww1 to current day, the first thing that came to mind when you explained the symptoms was VX or Novichok. Both agents were made in closed cities in that general area.
This was part of a massive set of planned hikes that were registered with the Russian government. They wouldn’t have been testing weapons in the area.
Way off in the mountains of eastern Siberia right after the end of the Cold War and the cops waited 2 weeks to investigate a nerve agent weapon being improperly disposed of/stored or a leak carried on the wind is a lot more believable than freak wind accident when they all died within moments of each other
Not to mention research on novichok ended coincidentally in 1993
@@TheLoreLodgeas if civilian safety ever stopped the soviets from doing something before
@@TheLoreLodge Unwilling test subjects lol. On the real tho it wouldn't even have to be active testing that killed them, contaminants of nerve gas is plenty and considering that they were testing nerve gas in that time frame is enough to make it plausible. Maybe the chick that survived recently took a benzo so the nerve gas couldn't activate in her like with the others. I think your explanation is probably the best, tho this is the Soviet Union we're talking about so you never truly know.
EXCELLENT job, very well and professionally done.
I’m getting the vibe that this is not prime homesteading territory.
Nor a site for kite-flying competitions.
I spoke the words "I'd have two nickels" with you and laughed 😂
This Khamar Daban story is so strange! I still think ball lightning was what happened in the Dyatlov incident.
Wasn't expecting the lore lodge to bring out their harem for that ad
Infrasound the Tartarian superweapon
the fact that you could die within minutes dripping blood from mouth if wind blows wrong is crazy
Awesome research and story telling! (I can't wait till they start producing films for Amazon. I mean, if Hecklefish can do it, these dudes can) :D
Love and support from Finland!!🤗♥️
When it comes to russian territory, i feel like everything is possible. From underground nuke testing to whatever weapon testing. But as there was a survivor, why wasn't she affected? It makes little sense. These extreme winds and bad decisions by the leader are most likely the cause for this tragedy.
I watched a doco that theorised they ate some kind of herb that grows wild in Siberia and in small quantities it helps with altitude sickness but too much and it is fatal and causes hallucinations and symptoms described.this herb (im sorry i dont know the name of it) looks like oversize saffron. And the survivor didnt have a fatal dose.Maybe this is a possible explanation?
total amateur here with her valid opinion: when googled what to take with you to hike in mountains, 4000-6000 kcal is indicated as energy burned per day. These were teenagers, faster metabolism can be expected? When you mention 2400 kcal for day, it seems too small amount to me
So they were underfed and at high risk already
it's the normal amount taken by tourists groups in the mountains, any tourist club in russia would advise you do the same. half comes from the food, half from your body. carrying more would be too heavy, and being in a caloric deficit for a limited amount of time wouldn't harm you in any way. their leader was experienced and knew what she was doing
Love the hoodies and video! Will be picking some up soon!
Her accounts could have also been different because of the trauma of watching people die and her brain trying to protect her learning to her misremember/not able to remember enough
Eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable. Especially of traumatic events.
Given the nature of the country she lived in, honesty might also be a dangerous policy
Awesome as always thanks guys ❤
This feels a lot like a clear cut case of chemical weapon exposure
No chemicals known to be in the area
@TheLoreLodge Well the question is did they perform any testing, which I feel was fairly unlikely.
However the ultrasonic wind theory may be the best answer in this case
@@TheLoreLodge th-cam.com/video/NT8-b5YEyjo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=VHq5SR3NccaeVw1k
@@TheLoreLodgeoh so just like how theres no area 52 *wink wink*
The whole infrasound thing in both cases is so ridiculous
The only explanation I can think of other than infrasound would be exposure to hydrogen cyanide, or cyanide gas. Hydrogen cyanide is produced from burning certain materials (e.g., plastic, rubber, cotton) and used in pesticides, and it's incredibly toxic. It's *extremely* unlikely, but possible, that the high winds carried a lethal concentration of hydrogen cyanide in the form of fumes/smoke. There are a ton of issues with my theory, primarily that I have no idea where the hydrogen cyanide would have come from, but it would explain a lot:
-Alexander Krysin was bleeding from his orifices and foaming at the mouth, which is common in cyanide ingestion or exposure to cyanide gas.
-Hydrogen cyanide targets the cardiovascular, respiratory, and central nervous systems. Lyudmila Korovina likely died from a heart attack, and many of the group members experienced paradoxical undressing, which is caused by vasoconstriction. Those same members were also grabbing/clawing at their throats, which indicates they were experiencing respiratory issues.
-Hydrogen cyanide causes extreme pain when inhaled, which would explain why people were clawing at their throats and why Tatyana Filipenko slammed her head against a rock until she was unconscious.
-Cyanide is usually only detectable up to a day or two and likely didn't show up in the autopsies for that reason.
-I'm not a doctor, so I don't know if this accounts for the low protein presence and odd features of the autopsies, but cyanide binds itself to hemeproteins and certain enzymes.
-The group members seemed to die in order from those that were higher up on the mountain to those that were lower on the mountain. The first two deaths were almost immediate, with one of them exhibiting symptoms that are more common in high exposure of hydrogen cyanide. The later deaths were slower and lacked any bleeding/foaming or immediate cardiac failure. It's possible that the wind was blowing in a way that distributed most of the hydrogen cyanide further up the mountain, and it lessened in concentration as it traveled downward.
-It's possible that Valentina Utochenko only came to when kicked because she was experiencing confusion or close to passing out from the fumes, but it's more likely due to the shock of the situation.
There are probably more connections I'm missing. To be clear, I think infrasound from the high winds (or radio tower, if you want to be a conspiracy theorist) is likely the cause, but I felt it was at least worth mentioning the similarities in the symptoms shown by the deceased. Again, I'm well aware of the flaws, but I'm curious to hear what you all think.
Also, it goes without saying, but great job to the Lore Lodge boys for their incredible reporting.
A nerve agent like VX, one that was notably developed by the soviets, also has very similar exposure symptoms to cyanide gas/hydrogen cyanide.
The soviet created nerve agent could've easily been recently tested by a group from the military base not too far from the area where everyone died.
Thr scenario being: A group from the military base of military personnel & KGB agents go to an area at, or close by, where the hiking group camped and died at, they test the VX nerve agent, some of the nerve agent unavoidably seeps into the ground while in liquid form. Then, later on, when the group camps at, or near, the testing area, either the rain brings it out of the soil, the wind brings it from the soil, or a combo of both happened with the rain reliquidizing crystalized remains from the soil slowly, through the night and then the wind blows it around the following morning. Wind can be inconsistent, too, and would explain why Valentina could've survived. She just so happened to get lucky and coincidentally was standing in a spot where the wind wasn't as strong. Then when she reached the treeline and made camp, the trees would've broken up the wind and the nerve agent which would've only lasted in the air in gas form for a short time anyway.
If there had been any traces in Valentina's body of exposure to VX nerve agent, when she was tested, the government would've hush hushed that right up so the tests can't be trusted. (Don't know why Aiden brought up a lack of poison/nerve agent exposure in Valentina's medical exam after her rescue as evidence when the government would've obviously kept that a secret if there had been any lol.) Although it's possible that after several days any traces had naturally left her system, too.
Now, If the group was indeed k¡lled by either poison or nerve agent, I don't think they were exposed on purpose by the government/military. If it was actively being tested when they were camping on the mountain then the military would've been guarding access to the area and would've told them to turn around to not expose governmemt secrets to citizens. I think that it would've most likely been leftover poison/nerve agent from testing in or around the area that had happened a month or more before the incident.
As for the inconsistencies between the 1993 and 2018 recounting of events by Valentina, the guy who took the 93 report could've been ordered by the government to change events in such a way that put full blame on the group's leader plus making sure they were all given normal causes of d3ath to cover up any possibility of people connecting it back to the government. (Which didn't work, but he tried 🤷♀️ Lmao)
@@LilyoftheLake14also there’s a Russian commenter here who’s been super helpful, supposedly it’s common knowledge among the Russian case followers that the government approached the Korovina daughter and told her to not comment on the case and gave her enough money to buy a house. Now, that was kind of common practice for the Russian government to do when any incident occurs, so it could just be compensation for the case being so high notoriety. However, it’s likely that they did the same to Valentina. And Valentina probably knew that it was government related as well.
@@theangledsaxon6765 Oh yeah! I remember seeing that comment which makes me think it's even more likely that the group was exposed to the remnants of a government chemical experiment. Also, that would explain Valentina's refusal to speak to the media or even to loved ones about the incident out of fear that the government would cause her to have a fatal ""accident"" or cause her to ""take her own life by stabbing herself 42 times in the back.""
Valentina might've heard about Korovina's daughter talking to the press about the hush money and noticed that nothing bad happened to her. So, then Valentina felt safe enought to tell her husband and when the journalist came by a few years later she figured that she'd be okay as long as she didn't say too much and avoided any mention about the government. That would actually make a lot of the things that happened after the incident make logical sense! 🤯
The english retelling sensationalized, the russian one downplayed and hid important things and the lady's own retelling of her trauma (that a journalist literally forced her down) seemed the most coherent, though mysterious
Thank you for the videos that I enjoy
2:49 felt like one of those AI made videos, thought Aiden was about to morph into a rocket and blast away or smth 😂
You make such great videos!