Priority 600 - Pinion gear box - oil viscosity mystery solved by oil testing at BlackStone Labs
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 เม.ย. 2023
- Greetings,
In this film, we talk about what type of oil Pinion sells for its gearbox based on the analysis of a pinion gearbox of oil sample after 1 year and 2,500 miles of use.
The oil tested at the 75w-80w range.
Link to supporting materials;
Testing Process: • Oil Analysis Start To ... Cost to test at blackstone labs was ~$35
Takeaways:
a. There is no scientific reason you need to buy gear oil from Pinion. Buying 75w-90 synthetic gear oil will have the same properties.
b. The oil had a fair about of material in it. For that reason, I will change it every 4-6 months instead of every 12 months.
c. You do not need to buy the Pinion gearbox oil changing kit - oil every time you need an oil change. You can buy the items below and do this yourself with your own kit. Just make sure to measure 60ml of oil for the gearbox.
The oil kit from Pinion is $40. YOu can buy 1l of oil on Amz for $ 15 USD which is enough oil for 16 oil changes!
Materials you can use that are cheaper and just as good as what you will buy from Pinion:
75w-90 wight synthetic oil tinyurl.com/2w42mz2k
100ml Plastic Graduated Cylinder Beaker - 100ml Science Measuring Test Tube Flask, 2-Sided Marking - Black and Raised Graduation Lines, Pour Spout tinyurl.com/mr2w3y7u
10 Pack 60ml/cc Plastic Syringe Large Syringes Tools Catheter Tip; tinyurl.com/4sxd9suc
If you like the pinion kit but what different oil. Buy the pinion kit one time and different oil the next time.
Link to that below!
www.prioritybicycles.com/prod...
####### test results! #####
BUCK: This sample's viscosity fits the ranges of 75W and 80W gear lube. We found a lot of wear metal in the spectral results, but we're not sure if it's a concern or not. We don't have a lot of experience with Pinion gear boxes (this seems to be the first we've ever seen, but the high metals can be partly related to wear-in since this is the factory oil. The water contamination and high insolubles (solids) might have contributed to the high metals - excess solids can tum oil abrasive. If the bike is running well, check back on metals in 2,500 miles for an update.
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I really appreciate this information. I posted a comment on Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics about using a non OEM gear oil. The response that concerned me was, “Gear lubes with high or extreme pressure additives are corrosive to yellow metals (brass, copper, bronze.) From what I've seen on Rohloff, Sturmey-Archer, and Alfina hubs is there is yellow metal in them. I've never seen a Pinion disassembled but I would guess it also uses it. Most common gear lubes are rated GL4 and GL5 and contain significant levels of pressure additives.” What do you think about this? I like your approach of cheaper allows more frequent gear oil changes. But - do you have concerns about corrosion? Or an untoward effect on seals for that matter? Again, thanks for your efforts on this!
I would wonder what those additives are at the elemental level. Once identified we could examine test results between both oils and compare.
In terms of functionality of the gearbox itself. I don't think there's any difference if you're changing your oil regularly like every 6 months or after every big trip. The oil gets contaminated fast and that I think is the biggest risk to damaging components in the gearbox.
Originally I was planning on getting the 600, but I decided I wanted something that requires even less maintenance. Based on my needs I’m thinking of getting the Ace of Spades and I made this decision prior to watching this video. I don’t particularly like companies such as Pinion that aren’t transparent about what they sell just to generate more income from consumers; $40 is quite steep. However, this video is very informative for other 600 owners. Hopefully others can benefit from this.
Grate video and research.. can't wait to see the second test ... phosphorus might be broken down plant materials(soil)
That's interesting... I haven't ridden my 600 far enough to do the firest oil change yet.... thanks for the video
Thanks for uploading this. The 'official oil' is expensive. But then so would be buying fuel for your car from Germany. Makes sense to source it locally. Nice to know what I need to buy.
Edit: Great that you added the vital stuff in the details too! Thanks.
Update, got the local stuff. Looks, smells and flows identically. And only $16 instead of $340. Even if it is not an exact match ( it does have a marine grade rating with some corrosion inhibitors, so perhaps better for me in my climate) the low cost means I will be replacing the oil more often, which can only be a good thing.
I believe SUS is Saybolt Seconds. The time it takes for the oil to drain out of those glass measuring flasks from the Blackstone video. I am about to buy a used Priority 600 with the P12 so I will submit a sample to Blackstone for comparision.
Saybolt testing wiki: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saybolt_universal_viscosity
Edit: Water % is a go/nogo. POS is simply positive for water.
Thank you for posting this, I have a 6 year old Skeptic (P12) and have many Pinion kits lying around but never felt sure which replacement oil to buy. The oil is always very dark, so I will up the frequency!
Thank you for doing this! Is an invaluable insight !
Thanks for sharing this, I've already changed my oil at the six month mark but will switch to this other oil.
Thanks for the video. I have had the 18 speed for two years now and need to change the oil soon. I may go this route. My first oil change no fluid came out of the case. Not a drop 😮. Pinion and CoMotion didn’t seem too worried by that 🤷🏻♂️
That sounds concerning. You shouldn't have an empty oil vessel. My recommendation would be to change the oil monthly and make sure it's holding oil If not file a warranty reclaim if the gearbox is under 5 years old.
@@buckmanriverno kidding right! CoMotion didn’t seem too concerned when I brought it up to them. It’s never leaked and no signs of oil anywhere on the frame. Going to get some oil and change it soon and hoping I have better luck. Otherwise I’m going to make more of a stink.
Wow! Thank you so much. I have a Priority 600X and need an oil change.
You're welcome!
The high phosphorus is probably an anti-wear additive. Apparently these sulfur-phosphorus compounds add protection for hypoid gears. My pinion oil smelled strongly of sulfur on the first change: maybe they are using an SAE Service GL-5 75-90 which typically has these high performance additives. It's not the oil cost that's so bad, but the inconvenience and hassle of having to buy Pinion's relabeled oil. Their gearbox costs more than a pretty good Trek. Demanding you buy their rebranded oil is just the Yamaha insisting you buy genuine Yamaha Lube from ... the Yahama Dealer.
I bought a 2nd hand bike with P1.18 recently so finally got into this topic. I just bought 2 oil kits (you can buy them for about 25 euro each in NL or DE), will try it soon when I return to Kiev where it is in storage. The reply from Pinion is complete nonsense! I will try non-pinion oil after this, thanks for the information on oil viscosity! The pinion oil is available in 1 litre bottles but at an RRP of 130 euro (can be bought for about 80 though), not cheap... Those chemical tests aren't expensive, interesting, I will see if I can find a similar test lab in NL or UA.
If you get oil tested in NL and UL let me know what you find out.
@@buckmanriver : Had a look but didn't find any lab yet in the Netherlands that does these tests for consumers (and at a low price to make it viable). I was thinking of having a new pack of pinion oil tested as well as the used oil from the bike. As to 75w-80, there are such transmission oils available such as Liqui moly transmission oil (less than 20 euro per litre), so I may skip using the original pinion oil, save that for a test at some point and use such cheap transmission oil immediately Btw do you have slight creaking in your bike from the drive train? It may come from dirt on the belt or the mount of the Pinion, perhaps loose bolts. I watched a few videos on it, I have this issue, will investigate when I return to Kiev in several weeks, was wondering if this is common or not...
Interesting video. Thanks. However..... using non Pinion oil in your gear box will void the warranty. That being said, after 5 years post warranty or if you bought a used bike, using a synthetic 75w oil and changing more often might well be just fine.
How would they know your not using it when you use the same weight oil as they sell?
@@buckmanriver On their website it says you need receipts for their oil or oil change.
If the factory oil was a "break in" lube, it will be interesting to see what the viscosity is of the replacement oil, as it may be different.
I agree. However, I suspect its all the same oil. And that the sample I sent in shows signs of break in due to the higher metal content a new gearbox would have vs one with many oil changes.
Hi. Is the connector between the syringe and the gearbox versy specific ? That would mean I need to buy an official kit for the firt service, and then I will purchase the 75W90 oil. thanks
Yes, it is
I intend to stick the tip of the scringe in the top hole, hold it there and push it in. The change at Pinion, they just let it run out of the bottom hole. They don't suck it out which would require the connector. Bought 6 scringes under $10 on Amazon.