I love vMix! Good overview of it's replay functionality. Amazing that for $50/month or $1,200 one time you can get a switcher, instant replay, and motion graphics all in one. I've used vMix to produce about 70 sports broadcasts since September.
Doug, all I have to say is my God, what a cool budget friendly system. Back in the early ‘90s I ran a small truck for the local cable company and the only option we had was real time playback from one of our 3/4” decks. Sony BVW-75’s were too much money and DDR’s were rare, I think the Tek Profile was around but that was expensive and large.
Nice to see you acknowledge vMix. I've been using a similar setup with the Decklink 2 Quad for several years with a few hundred games and productions sucessfully completed. My 4 space rack also contains a network switch, network router, audio mixer, usb interface, tally controller, external BM recorder, and all the connections I need for up to 7 cameras in and one video out. It has been very reliable and the small size gives me tons of flexibility.
When a software-based switcher is called for vMix is my go-to. I do a lot of events with IMAG so software switching isn’t the best way to go for most of the work I do
Wow. Brilliant! I love this setup. I've never needed to do a live replay for the kinds of stuff I do, but it was really fun seeing how you got this to work.
very interesting, thank you very much. i'm just starting a production of volleyball live match on vmix and you gave me some tips.. for example "toggle 1 2 3 4" that i didn't noticed when i studied vmix replays..
Great video. I've always wondered about HD instant replay and trying to find a decent video on youtube was a challenge. I remember 'back in the day' using the DSR-DR1000 for SD instant replay.
Hey Doug, have you actually tested 4 feeds at 12G on the card? The card itself needs 8 PCIe lanes while thunderbolt only provides 4 lanes especially since you are also daisy-chaining the thunderbolt Would be very interested if the card is able to run 4k60 smoothly with only the 4 lanes provided by the laptop
Hi Doug, I understand the card-to-laptop workflow. But how do you get out of the finished replay later for production? External hdmi? I assume that there are 4 cameras, so all inputs on the card are occupied. BM Ultra Studio Monitor - what signal goes through it and where?
Will vmix do a delayed live (like DVR)? SO if I needed to start a live playback at a leter date, will it play from my in point and playout to the end, or does it only buffer a few seconds or so? Apologies I havent dug into the nitty gritty of the software...
Hi Doug thanks for the video. I was couscous if the Deck LInk 8k pro would work in this enclosure and how it would perform as they don't list it as one of the supported products on OWCs website. My other option is the much more expensive Sonnet Echo Express SE IIIe which does list the Deck link 8k pro as a supported PCIe card. I plan to use this is a 4ch 4k synced playback solution with Millumin. Did you have any issues when first pairing these two products?
No. Everything worked perfectly the first time. These PCIe Thunderbolt enclosures really aren't doing much. Thunderbolt itself is based on PCIe, so the boards inside of the enclosure is essentially just converting the signal from one type of connector to another. They don't do much beyond that. So any card that can work at PCIe 3.0 x4 speeds should work just fine.
Hello Doug! Great Video! Im running the replay almost the same way but with 8 HD cameras and streaming from Vmix at the same time using 2 decklink duo cards mounted inside the PC. Since I run everything over 1 PC:Stream Encoding, Recording to disk, Carmera switching, graphics and replay + replay recording... im worried that some day my PC will just quit during a live production and im thinking of splitting up everything a little. Does the production send you all the camera inputs and you send 1 SDI output to the producer? if so, how do you send the output over SDI from Vmix? and can the producer see on his side how much time is left from the replay or he needs to look at your screen? Best Regards Victor PS: Love your content! its so helpful! Many thanks!
Yes, I take in up to 8 cameras, and send 1 return feed. If I'm using the Decklink 8K Pro card and have 4 cameras, or using the DeckLink Quad and have 8 cameras (which hasn't ever happened) I'll add the UltraStudio Mini Monitor as shown in this video for the output (return/playback) feed. For fewer than that (3 or fewer with the 8K Pro, or 7 or fewer with the DeckLink Quad), I'll use one of the card's built-in outputs. vMix can actually do two replay outputs so you can flip back and forth between two, but I'm not skilled enough at this to be able to run both of those at the same time. vMix can be set to output the program video in the External settings at the bottom of the main window. In terms of remaining time on clips, we just communicate over the intercom -- I'll count it down.
Hi Doug, with experience, have you had problems sometimes? because a thunderbolt controller works on 4 lanes and the decklink 8k pro is on 8 lanes and for 4 4k60p inputs, the decklink 8k pro is in pcie 3.0 x8 and thunderbolt has a max throughput a little above pcie 3.0 x4 have you tried 4 x 4k60p? any limits? can we use the sdi and hdmi outputs simultaneously on the ultrastudio monitor 3g? Thanks
I haven't really pushed it quite that hard. I have done four 4K30 streams and that worked just fine. But I have not done 4 x 4K60, as my trailer and cameras don't support it. But based on the math, I'm pretty confident there wouldn't be enough bandwidth for four 4K60 streams of 10-bit 4:2:2 video when all things are considered. Thunderbolt 3 and 4 have a maximum total bandwidth of 40 Gbps, and that has to include protocol overhead (Thunderbolt and PCIe) and all other data streams as well. In practical terms the available bandwidth is usually quite a bit lower, particularly if other things like displays or USB devices are going through the same controller, as it all has to fit in that same 40 Gbps. For the best chance at success, make sure nothing else is plugged into the same Thunderbolt port and controller chip. (You might have to do some digging to find out how the Thunderbolt ports on a particular computer map to the controller(s) available since one controller can be used by multiple ports.) Four 4K60, 10-bit SDI video streams would be in the neighborhood of 48 (12G x 4) Gbps. But there is an assumption there that all of the data coming in over SDI gets sent over the PCIe bus -- the amount of bandwidth for just the video and audio data for 4:2:2, 10-bit 4K60 is closer to 7.5 Gbps, with the amount of data transferred by the DeckLink to the computer likely being somewhere between those numbers. So if 4K60 is your need, either you'd likely have to limit to 2-3 streams per Thunderbolt controller, or use an internal PCIe slot in a computer rather than a Thunderbolt interface. The current versions and implementations of Thunderbolt probably just aren't fast enough. In terms of the UltraStudio Mini Monitor, both the SDI and HDMI outputs are always active at all times.
Hi thank u so much for the video. Would u recomment this over 4 X hdr-10 recorder and a replay controler. I currently do sports broadcast with atem mini and obs on a mac. but i need to move to multi camera replays.
I guess that depends on the type of event that you're shooting. If the 30-second record time of the HDR-10 is enough for you, you can certainly make that work. For the types of events that I shoot, I need many minutes of recording time to not just highlight what happened in the last few seconds, but also to produce a highlight reel at the end of an event. The other thing is cost. This solution can be had for starting around $2000 for four channels. The HDR-10 solution is $1300 per channel, plus another $1000 for the controller on top of that.
i did ask OWC about the Helios 3S enclosure with BM DeckLink 8k Pro and they say it wasn't compatible as the 8k pro is a PCIE X8 card and the Helios is a PCIE X4 enclosure. I ended buying the Sonnet enclosure which costed more.
Hi Doug! Great video. Thanks for sharing! Are you just recording with this setup or is this laptop also capable of streaming 1080p/60fps? If you were to offload encoding to a separate hardware, which would you recommend for high motion sports?
I don't personally, but you certainly can. vMix has that capability. There are a lot of variables that play into selecting a hardware encoder. Budget, whether you need bonding, which platform is being used for streaming, etc.
You can actually both stream and record in vMix but it really taxing on even a powerful machine so best to offload at least one of those especially if doing replay on the same machine.
If your motherboard has enough PCE Express slots and lanes for the three cards plus a video card and other devices (like SSDs). AMD in general provides more PCIe lanes than Intel chips, but it really does vary by product line and model.
Couldn't you use the vMix output setting to send it's out to the production switcher? Also, before you get to a venue, have the techs been alerted that you will need their sdi camera feeds?
That's what I'm doing. Going through either an unused connection on the DeckLink, or adding an UltraStudio Mini Monitor for that output. And, yes, they know I'll need their feeds. Usually we just tap into them at a routing switcher or use aux outputs on the switcher.
Hi Doug ... what i missed is what physcial ports you use for the outputs A and B cause the Decklink 8K Pro has 4 inputs and you use them all as 4 cam inputs. Thx a lot!
I'm currently only using the "A" output, and when I run 4 inputs I have an UltraStudio Monitor 3G plugged into my Thunderbolt enclosure to provide that output.
Question TB3 Enclosure supports x16 (physical) slot running at PCIe 3.0 x4 lane performance DeckLink 8K Pro PCI Express 8 lane generation 3, compatible with 8 and 16 lane PCI Express slots. DeckLink Quad 2 PCI Express 8 lane generation 2, compatible with 8 and 16 lane PCI Express slots.
The enclosures aren't going to convert from one generation to another, so if the Quad 2 is Gen 2 it might not be the best choice. But it's going to depend on what you're doing and what kind of bandwidth you need for that particular application.
Hi Doug, I have a 12hr live stream in September and I’m going to try to use VMix for replay. There will be segments where I can turn the recording off, but I was wondering if I can set up an external ssd to be my replay drive? One that would be large enough to handle more than the 4 hrs my internal drive is allowing.
Sorry if I missed it, how many seconds between STOP and Start Replay? What’s the max number of seconds acceptable for a sports event? In my first test with a Hyperdeck I have 2 seconds between STOP and Start
The vMix solution is always recording so there's no delay to switch between record and play. The recording keeps going all the time and you can play back any point recorded in the past at any time, simultaneously while it is still recording.
Hi Doug, Great timing! We've just invested in some gear to get vMix replay into our workflow... I'm curious as to what shortcut functions you used in vMix to set the in and out points on a clip that's already been "recorded"? I found the commands that will set an in and out point live, but can't find ones that work on the selected clip. Thanks.
Alright, I might have to do some more fiddling with it. I noticed a lot of the replay/mark functions have blank descriptions in the documentation which is very helpful 🤦♂️
Head to shortcuts and go to the replay tab then look through the list in vmix. A lot are fairly self explanatory and you can play around. We use a few functions to easily move the in and out of selected clip by 1s increments which is really quick with an external key device like xkeys or streamdeck
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Great video. We do similar with a streamdeck. Love vmix for instant replays, it's just so easy and high quality features. The iso recording is useful sometimes too. What did the cpu and rendering numbers do on the laptops once you started the quad replay encode? Interested to know how it handles it
It happened to be one of the gaming laptops on sale at my local Best Buy store. And installing the second SSD was trivial -- remove the screws from the bottom of the laptop to remove the bottom case, and pop the SSD in. The whole process took just a few minutes.
Amazing video which explains everything in great details. Just wondering if this can be done using hardware like blackmagic hyperdeck recorders and their hyperdeck control
Not very well. The HyperDecks can’t record and play at the same time, so you’d have to record for a while, then stop and start the clip for playback, then go back to record mode over and over. You could do some limited things with replay, but if you needed to continue recording while playing back another clip you’d be out of luck.
@djp_video thank you very much for this very informative answer. This is what I intially thought, but is there like an economical media server that can be paired with this system to achieve the same? I'm only worried about the reliability of software based system in a live show
Is it possible to playback two sync clips from different inputs at the same time ? Can you name the clips before recording and add takes as you record new clips ? Just like QTake software does ? Thanks
All configured inputs record all the time, simultaneously. When you start playback, all of those inputs play back simultaneously, synchronized to one another. While you're playing back (or recording) you can freely cut between cameras as much as you'd like. Those cuts aren't inherently recorded, though. When you mark an event, you can freely choose which camera angle(s) you want to include for replay (or export), and if you utilize this functionality those angles will play sequentially back-to-back automatically, with your choice of transition between them (event 1 angle 1, event 1 angle 3, event 3 angle 2, event 3 angle 4, etc.). Since the recordings all happen continuously, you don't have "clips" on disk by default -- it's just long recordings of the entire event, only broken up by manually stopping and starting the recording, or when the files reach their maximum allowed size. When that happens it just closes those the active files and starts recording seamleessly in new ones without any frames being dropped. Any portions of an event that you have marked/tagged can be exported to indivdual files at the end of an event to help build a highlight reel or for archiving. The full-length recordings are available too if you want those as well. I'm sure this explanation doesn't make a lot of sense. vMix has a video on their channel detailing how to use the replay features. It's probably worth taking the time to watch it to understand it.
What are the settings of the black magic 8k to get the Vmix to "see" all 4 cameras at once? I can only get one camera to show up at once?.. Thank you for a great video!
Gr8 video! I have hdmi cameras and would love to skip the conversion to sdi - is the decklink quad hdmi just as reliable? I guess it could be placed in that same external pcie case instead? Easiest would be to buy a couple of extra camlink 4K dongles to my Mac studio - but that’s too easy I guess?
The DeckLink Quad HDMI should work fine for you. You'll still need some kind of output, though... so keep that in mind. Camlinks could work, but it's easy to get them mixed up as to which is which and will likely require quite a bit more processing by the CPU compared to a Thunderbolt device.
Fantastic example and workflow lesson Doug! ! I checked out the specs for the decklink cards. Seems they’re capable of 120fps. Do you know if Blackmagic or anyone else makes an equivalent card (multiple I/o) capable of 240fps? I’ve had no success finding one.
@@MisterCkris Sony, Panasonic or Grassvalley 3x camera chain would be around $120,000 + lens. I'm not aware of anything else capable of delivering uncompressed 1080/120fps via SDI or Fiber
@@SportFlow thank you for clarifying. We’re in the same ballpark when thinking about price. I specialize in high speed cinematography and NOTHING is inexpensive.
Hi. Just wondering, how u power up the decklink 8k? Since the decklink need additional power cable to power up. I try to setup the same thing. But it didnt work. Help me sir
This may be a very simple question but I am completely lost on how to make it happen. How do I get the video signal into my Atem switcher and into the vmix pc at the same time. I think I understand how to get the replay into the switcher from the vmix pc.
You have to split the signal somehow -- either with a dedicated splitter, or by using auxiliary outputs on an ATEM equipped with them, or, the preferred solution -- use a video routing switcher (like the Smart Videohubs from Blackmagic). You could potentially risk using passive splitters, but in my experience they aren't worth the gamble.
I’m attempting to do this using a 4x4 HDMI Matrix Switcher, using 2 inputs and all 4 outputs. Using a monoprice blackbird 4K pro. This would only allow two replay cameras though, which is what we need as most are 3 camera setups with 1 camera not needed for replay.
Hi, love your knowledge share 🙏🏾 I use vmix in my set up and am trying to replicate this set up… however the issue I am having is getting the 4 cameras (or Decklink card) to show up in the laptop in vmix software. Laptop HP Omen 16 OWC Mercury Helios S3 Decklink Duo 2 Not sure where I’m going wrong…
When I plug the PCi into the laptop with thunderbolt cable I get a notification…. “Thunderbolt functionality might be limited” and “The AC adapter is not compatible with this device”. While the laptop is running off its own battery…
No it does not show up in device manager unfortunately. And it also did not ask for device permission to connect… I just plugged the Thunderbolt 4 cable from the OWC mercury Helios 3s into the port that has a thunderbolt lightening icon and the messages just repeat themselves… Totally baffling for me… I now wonder if the device actually takes a thunderbolt connection?? Product ID: 0032-21083-24354-AAOEM
I'm not sure why somebody would. Based on what I'm seeing on their website, they don't appear to have a suitable solution for multi-channel replay, and their computers cost an absolute fortune! Their solutions appear to be targeted towards graphics, not replay. This system does 4 channels as-is for about $2,000, and going to 8 channels bumps the price up to about $3000 -- a tiny fraction of the price of an entry-level laptop from AJT. And I don't see a 4- or 8-channel option on AJT's site.
Hi Doug! I have a question that is not related to the video above itself, but I hope you could help me. I'm looking for a smallest and lightweight possible camera with 3G SDI output (1080p 60fps) and M12 lens mount. The weight better be under 50 grams / 0.11 lbs. for the camera itself, not counting cables. I've found a few: Atom Mini Air, Marshall Electronics bare plate camera, Aliexpress noname camera. Do you know other cameras on the market that will fit the search criteria? Thank you.
We have been searching for a long time for a solution like yours and almost every single Thunderbolt enclosure is x16 mechanical but only x4 electrical. So far, the only Thunderbolt enclosure that we think would actually use all of the Decklink 8k features is the Sonnet Echo Express SE IIIe, that features an x16 mechanical, x8 electrical slot.
This is probably the closest we will see Doug get to a software video switcher ;) Cool setup!
Not necessarily. I'm considering using vMix for my TH-cam studio.
You're next Josh to get smitten with vMix. C'mon over, the water is fine.
I love vMix! Good overview of it's replay functionality. Amazing that for $50/month or $1,200 one time you can get a switcher, instant replay, and motion graphics all in one. I've used vMix to produce about 70 sports broadcasts since September.
Doug, all I have to say is my God, what a cool budget friendly system. Back in the early ‘90s I ran a small truck for the local cable company and the only option we had was real time playback from one of our 3/4” decks. Sony BVW-75’s were too much money and DDR’s were rare, I think the Tek Profile was around but that was expensive and large.
Excellent video. I've been waiting for your take on this topic for a while. Very informative. Thanks a lot, Doug!
Nice to see you acknowledge vMix. I've been using a similar setup with the Decklink 2 Quad for several years with a few hundred games and productions sucessfully completed. My 4 space rack also contains a network switch, network router, audio mixer, usb interface, tally controller, external BM recorder, and all the connections I need for up to 7 cameras in and one video out. It has been very reliable and the small size gives me tons of flexibility.
When a software-based switcher is called for vMix is my go-to. I do a lot of events with IMAG so software switching isn’t the best way to go for most of the work I do
Nice video and setup! 👌🏼 Always interesting to see how people solve problems like portability
Well done, nice simple inexpensive system. Better than 3Play and much smaller and less expensive plus the advantage of 4K. Appreciate you sharing.
Wow. Brilliant! I love this setup. I've never needed to do a live replay for the kinds of stuff I do, but it was really fun seeing how you got this to work.
Thanks for the video on Instant Replay in vMix. I use the SONNET ECHO with two capture cards.
Fantastic video. Looking forward to try it out, adding replay has always looked costly. I'm on an Asus Tuf D15, so should be able to run it.
very interesting, thank you very much. i'm just starting a production of volleyball live match on vmix and you gave me some tips.. for example "toggle 1 2 3 4" that i didn't noticed when i studied vmix replays..
Great video. I've always wondered about HD instant replay and trying to find a decent video on youtube was a challenge. I remember 'back in the day' using the DSR-DR1000 for SD instant replay.
Great information and lots to take in
now i have to do some research to see if i can get this to work with a one man band set up
great video Doug!
Thank you!! Excellent video tutorial on replay!
Hey Doug,
have you actually tested 4 feeds at 12G on the card? The card itself needs 8 PCIe lanes while thunderbolt only provides 4 lanes especially since you are also daisy-chaining the thunderbolt
Would be very interested if the card is able to run 4k60 smoothly with only the 4 lanes provided by the laptop
I haven’t tried it. I don’t actually have 4K60 sources or switcher I can use. My 4K stuff is limited to 30fps
thanks boss
helpful video
Hi Doug, I understand the card-to-laptop workflow. But how do you get out of the finished replay later for production? External hdmi? I assume that there are 4 cameras, so all inputs on the card are occupied.
BM Ultra Studio Monitor - what signal goes through it and where?
The UltraStudio provides the SDI output from vMix back into the switcher.
Will vmix do a delayed live (like DVR)? SO if I needed to start a live playback at a leter date, will it play from my in point and playout to the end, or does it only buffer a few seconds or so? Apologies I havent dug into the nitty gritty of the software...
The Replay feature would be able to do this.
@@djp_video REALLY. Hmm. Good info thank you
Hi Doug thanks for the video. I was couscous if the Deck LInk 8k pro would work in this enclosure and how it would perform as they don't list it as one of the supported products on OWCs website. My other option is the much more expensive Sonnet Echo Express SE IIIe which does list the Deck link 8k pro as a supported PCIe card. I plan to use this is a 4ch 4k synced playback solution with Millumin. Did you have any issues when first pairing these two products?
No. Everything worked perfectly the first time.
These PCIe Thunderbolt enclosures really aren't doing much. Thunderbolt itself is based on PCIe, so the boards inside of the enclosure is essentially just converting the signal from one type of connector to another. They don't do much beyond that. So any card that can work at PCIe 3.0 x4 speeds should work just fine.
Hello Doug! Great Video! Im running the replay almost the same way but with 8 HD cameras and streaming from Vmix at the same time using 2 decklink duo cards mounted inside the PC. Since I run everything over 1 PC:Stream Encoding, Recording to disk, Carmera switching, graphics and replay + replay recording... im worried that some day my PC will just quit during a live production and im thinking of splitting up everything a little.
Does the production send you all the camera inputs and you send 1 SDI output to the producer? if so, how do you send the output over SDI from Vmix? and can the producer see on his side how much time is left from the replay or he needs to look at your screen?
Best Regards
Victor
PS: Love your content! its so helpful!
Many thanks!
Yes, I take in up to 8 cameras, and send 1 return feed. If I'm using the Decklink 8K Pro card and have 4 cameras, or using the DeckLink Quad and have 8 cameras (which hasn't ever happened) I'll add the UltraStudio Mini Monitor as shown in this video for the output (return/playback) feed. For fewer than that (3 or fewer with the 8K Pro, or 7 or fewer with the DeckLink Quad), I'll use one of the card's built-in outputs. vMix can actually do two replay outputs so you can flip back and forth between two, but I'm not skilled enough at this to be able to run both of those at the same time.
vMix can be set to output the program video in the External settings at the bottom of the main window. In terms of remaining time on clips, we just communicate over the intercom -- I'll count it down.
Hi Doug,
with experience, have you had problems sometimes?
because a thunderbolt controller works on 4 lanes and the decklink 8k pro is on 8 lanes
and for 4 4k60p inputs, the decklink 8k pro is in pcie 3.0 x8 and thunderbolt has a max throughput a little above pcie 3.0 x4
have you tried 4 x 4k60p? any limits?
can we use the sdi and hdmi outputs simultaneously on the ultrastudio monitor 3g?
Thanks
I haven't really pushed it quite that hard. I have done four 4K30 streams and that worked just fine. But I have not done 4 x 4K60, as my trailer and cameras don't support it. But based on the math, I'm pretty confident there wouldn't be enough bandwidth for four 4K60 streams of 10-bit 4:2:2 video when all things are considered.
Thunderbolt 3 and 4 have a maximum total bandwidth of 40 Gbps, and that has to include protocol overhead (Thunderbolt and PCIe) and all other data streams as well. In practical terms the available bandwidth is usually quite a bit lower, particularly if other things like displays or USB devices are going through the same controller, as it all has to fit in that same 40 Gbps. For the best chance at success, make sure nothing else is plugged into the same Thunderbolt port and controller chip. (You might have to do some digging to find out how the Thunderbolt ports on a particular computer map to the controller(s) available since one controller can be used by multiple ports.)
Four 4K60, 10-bit SDI video streams would be in the neighborhood of 48 (12G x 4) Gbps. But there is an assumption there that all of the data coming in over SDI gets sent over the PCIe bus -- the amount of bandwidth for just the video and audio data for 4:2:2, 10-bit 4K60 is closer to 7.5 Gbps, with the amount of data transferred by the DeckLink to the computer likely being somewhere between those numbers. So if 4K60 is your need, either you'd likely have to limit to 2-3 streams per Thunderbolt controller, or use an internal PCIe slot in a computer rather than a Thunderbolt interface. The current versions and implementations of Thunderbolt probably just aren't fast enough.
In terms of the UltraStudio Mini Monitor, both the SDI and HDMI outputs are always active at all times.
Hi thank u so much for the video. Would u recomment this over 4 X hdr-10 recorder and a replay controler. I currently do sports broadcast with atem mini and obs on a mac. but i need to move to multi camera replays.
I guess that depends on the type of event that you're shooting. If the 30-second record time of the HDR-10 is enough for you, you can certainly make that work. For the types of events that I shoot, I need many minutes of recording time to not just highlight what happened in the last few seconds, but also to produce a highlight reel at the end of an event.
The other thing is cost. This solution can be had for starting around $2000 for four channels. The HDR-10 solution is $1300 per channel, plus another $1000 for the controller on top of that.
i did ask OWC about the Helios 3S enclosure with BM DeckLink 8k Pro and they say it wasn't compatible as the 8k pro is a PCIE X8 card and the Helios is a PCIE X4 enclosure. I ended buying the Sonnet enclosure which costed more.
Thunderbolt is limited to X4, so no matter what enclosure you get you'll be limited to X4 bandwidth.
Hi Doug! Great video. Thanks for sharing! Are you just recording with this setup or is this laptop also capable of streaming 1080p/60fps?
If you were to offload encoding to a separate hardware, which would you recommend for high motion sports?
I don't personally, but you certainly can. vMix has that capability.
There are a lot of variables that play into selecting a hardware encoder. Budget, whether you need bonding, which platform is being used for streaming, etc.
You can actually both stream and record in vMix but it really taxing on even a powerful machine so best to offload at least one of those especially if doing replay on the same machine.
hey @doug, for the DeckLink...can you run three DeckLink 8K Pros on one PC system? Do you think AMD is better for this or i9
If your motherboard has enough PCE Express slots and lanes for the three cards plus a video card and other devices (like SSDs). AMD in general provides more PCIe lanes than Intel chips, but it really does vary by product line and model.
Couldn't you use the vMix output setting to send it's out to the production switcher? Also, before you get to a venue, have the techs been alerted that you will need their sdi camera feeds?
That's what I'm doing. Going through either an unused connection on the DeckLink, or adding an UltraStudio Mini Monitor for that output.
And, yes, they know I'll need their feeds. Usually we just tap into them at a routing switcher or use aux outputs on the switcher.
Hi Doug ... what i missed is what physcial ports you use for the outputs A and B cause the Decklink 8K Pro has 4 inputs and you use them all as 4 cam inputs. Thx a lot!
I'm currently only using the "A" output, and when I run 4 inputs I have an UltraStudio Monitor 3G plugged into my Thunderbolt enclosure to provide that output.
Question TB3 Enclosure supports x16 (physical) slot running at PCIe 3.0 x4 lane performance
DeckLink 8K Pro
PCI Express 8 lane generation 3, compatible with 8 and 16 lane PCI Express slots.
DeckLink Quad 2
PCI Express 8 lane generation 2, compatible with 8 and 16 lane PCI Express slots.
The enclosures aren't going to convert from one generation to another, so if the Quad 2 is Gen 2 it might not be the best choice. But it's going to depend on what you're doing and what kind of bandwidth you need for that particular application.
Hi Doug, I have a 12hr live stream in September and I’m going to try to use VMix for replay. There will be segments where I can turn the recording off, but I was wondering if I can set up an external ssd to be my replay drive? One that would be large enough to handle more than the 4 hrs my internal drive is allowing.
Yes. As long as it is fast enough to keep up.
Sorry if I missed it, how many seconds between STOP and Start Replay? What’s the max number of seconds acceptable for a sports event? In my first test with a Hyperdeck I have 2 seconds between STOP and Start
The vMix solution is always recording so there's no delay to switch between record and play. The recording keeps going all the time and you can play back any point recorded in the past at any time, simultaneously while it is still recording.
Hi Doug,
Great timing! We've just invested in some gear to get vMix replay into our workflow... I'm curious as to what shortcut functions you used in vMix to set the in and out points on a clip that's already been "recorded"? I found the commands that will set an in and out point live, but can't find ones that work on the selected clip. Thanks.
It's something like UpdateMarkIn or similar. I don't have vMix in front of me to look it up.
Alright, I might have to do some more fiddling with it. I noticed a lot of the replay/mark functions have blank descriptions in the documentation which is very helpful 🤦♂️
Head to shortcuts and go to the replay tab then look through the list in vmix. A lot are fairly self explanatory and you can play around. We use a few functions to easily move the in and out of selected clip by 1s increments which is really quick with an external key device like xkeys or streamdeck
Amigo me parece perfecto solo que mira, te recomiendo la Gigabyte Gaming Box las que traen las GTX1080 solo la caja, son mas pequeñas y mas portable, lo bueno de esa Gigabyte es que trae una fuente de poder flex, y podes cambiarla a una fuente de poder de 180w o 220w y puedes conectarla a una bateria externa de unos 300w y va genial, te recomendaría el Highpoint RocketStor 6661A de 12v pero es que igual es grande, mejor comprate una gaming box de gigabyte va mucho mejor que eso, es por lo compacta.
i love you
Great video. We do similar with a streamdeck. Love vmix for instant replays, it's just so easy and high quality features. The iso recording is useful sometimes too. What did the cpu and rendering numbers do on the laptops once you started the quad replay encode? Interested to know how it handles it
I didn't notice what the actual CPU or GPU usage is, but the cooling fans never really spun up that much. It seems I have plenty of headroom.
@@djp_video good to know for the specs! How do you find the omen? Easy to install the second ssd?
It happened to be one of the gaming laptops on sale at my local Best Buy store. And installing the second SSD was trivial -- remove the screws from the bottom of the laptop to remove the bottom case, and pop the SSD in. The whole process took just a few minutes.
@@djp_video thanks for the info. Good to know about those specs and dealing with 4x replays ok. Keep up the great work.
thanks
Amazing video which explains everything in great details. Just wondering if this can be done using hardware like blackmagic hyperdeck recorders and their hyperdeck control
Not very well. The HyperDecks can’t record and play at the same time, so you’d have to record for a while, then stop and start the clip for playback, then go back to record mode over and over. You could do some limited things with replay, but if you needed to continue recording while playing back another clip you’d be out of luck.
@djp_video thank you very much for this very informative answer. This is what I intially thought, but is there like an economical media server that can be paired with this system to achieve the same? I'm only worried about the reliability of software based system in a live show
all going so well until I see there is no Mac version of vMix. I assume this cannot be done in obs on Mac?
Not that I know of
@@djp_video Replay Source plugin by Exceldro
Sir i will use transition in ME 2 blackmagic switcher please help me
Is it possible to playback two sync clips from different inputs at the same time ? Can you name the clips before recording and add takes as you record new clips ? Just like QTake software does ? Thanks
All configured inputs record all the time, simultaneously.
When you start playback, all of those inputs play back simultaneously, synchronized to one another. While you're playing back (or recording) you can freely cut between cameras as much as you'd like. Those cuts aren't inherently recorded, though.
When you mark an event, you can freely choose which camera angle(s) you want to include for replay (or export), and if you utilize this functionality those angles will play sequentially back-to-back automatically, with your choice of transition between them (event 1 angle 1, event 1 angle 3, event 3 angle 2, event 3 angle 4, etc.).
Since the recordings all happen continuously, you don't have "clips" on disk by default -- it's just long recordings of the entire event, only broken up by manually stopping and starting the recording, or when the files reach their maximum allowed size. When that happens it just closes those the active files and starts recording seamleessly in new ones without any frames being dropped.
Any portions of an event that you have marked/tagged can be exported to indivdual files at the end of an event to help build a highlight reel or for archiving. The full-length recordings are available too if you want those as well.
I'm sure this explanation doesn't make a lot of sense. vMix has a video on their channel detailing how to use the replay features. It's probably worth taking the time to watch it to understand it.
Do you stream through vMix or is vMix strictly used for Replay?
Just for replay
What are the settings of the black magic 8k to get the Vmix to "see" all 4 cameras at once? I can only get one camera to show up at once?.. Thank you for a great video!
It shouldn't require anything special. Open up Desktop Video Setup and make sure that all four inputs/outputs are showing up there.
Gr8 video! I have hdmi cameras and would love to skip the conversion to sdi - is the decklink quad hdmi just as reliable? I guess it could be placed in that same external pcie case instead? Easiest would be to buy a couple of extra camlink 4K dongles to my Mac studio - but that’s too easy I guess?
The DeckLink Quad HDMI should work fine for you. You'll still need some kind of output, though... so keep that in mind.
Camlinks could work, but it's easy to get them mixed up as to which is which and will likely require quite a bit more processing by the CPU compared to a Thunderbolt device.
@@djp_video thanks! I’m thinking that my only output needed is the thunderbolt making it a stream online. But maybe I’ll outgrow that setup.
@@GearloversI have HDMI cameras but still use the same card Doug uses... I just use BM HDMI>SDI converter on the camera end.
Fantastic example and workflow lesson Doug! ! I checked out the specs for the decklink cards. Seems they’re capable of 120fps. Do you know if Blackmagic or anyone else makes an equivalent card (multiple I/o) capable of 240fps? I’ve had no success finding one.
the problem is finding an affordable camera that will output 120fps over SDI
For my understanding, what range would you consider affordable?
@@MisterCkris Sony, Panasonic or Grassvalley 3x camera chain would be around $120,000 + lens. I'm not aware of anything else capable of delivering uncompressed 1080/120fps via SDI or Fiber
@@SportFlow thank you for clarifying. We’re in the same ballpark when thinking about price. I specialize in high speed cinematography and NOTHING is inexpensive.
@@MisterCkris Phantom cameras?
Hey Doug how did you map the xkey labels ? Is this done manually? Thanks 😊
I did it manually. I came up with a layout most compatible with my workflow, then programmed the buttons in vMix myself.
Hi. Just wondering, how u power up the decklink 8k? Since the decklink need additional power cable to power up. I try to setup the same thing. But it didnt work. Help me sir
It actually doesn't. The power connector on the card is not connected to anything.
@@djp_video so the decklink 8k cant work with ows helios?
Do you have a link for the vMix Replay button labels?
It's just a table I created in Microsoft Word. Nothing special.
@@djp_video Could you provide the vMix ShortCut Template in the description for your xKeys replay setup? Thanks.
Thanks for the video! Would an Alienware with 2070 super be able to handle 2 cameras for replay on a laptop with this same setup?
I would think so.
This may be a very simple question but I am completely lost on how to make it happen. How do I get the video signal into my Atem switcher and into the vmix pc at the same time. I think I understand how to get the replay into the switcher from the vmix pc.
You have to split the signal somehow -- either with a dedicated splitter, or by using auxiliary outputs on an ATEM equipped with them, or, the preferred solution -- use a video routing switcher (like the Smart Videohubs from Blackmagic). You could potentially risk using passive splitters, but in my experience they aren't worth the gamble.
I’m attempting to do this using a 4x4 HDMI Matrix Switcher, using 2 inputs and all 4 outputs. Using a monoprice blackbird 4K pro. This would only allow two replay cameras though, which is what we need as most are 3 camera setups with 1 camera not needed for replay.
We have an HDMI version of the Mini Pro, hence the HDMI workaround.
Hi, love your knowledge share 🙏🏾
I use vmix in my set up and am trying to replicate this set up… however the issue I am having is getting the 4 cameras (or Decklink card) to show up in the laptop in vmix software.
Laptop HP Omen 16
OWC Mercury Helios S3
Decklink Duo 2
Not sure where I’m going wrong…
Can you see the cameras in Blackmagic Design Media Express?
When I plug the PCi into the laptop with thunderbolt cable I get a notification…. “Thunderbolt functionality might be limited” and “The AC adapter is not compatible with this device”. While the laptop is running off its own battery…
I didn’t download before and now I have installed… but still no luck as card not showing in Desktop Video
Does your card show up in the Device Manager?
Did your computer ever pop up and ask permission for the Thunderbolt device to connect?
No it does not show up in device manager unfortunately. And it also did not ask for device permission to connect…
I just plugged the Thunderbolt 4 cable from the OWC mercury Helios 3s into the port that has a thunderbolt lightening icon and the messages just repeat themselves…
Totally baffling for me… I now wonder if the device actually takes a thunderbolt connection??
Product ID: 0032-21083-24354-AAOEM
Why not just using a AJT laptop system to do your instant Replay?
I'm not sure why somebody would. Based on what I'm seeing on their website, they don't appear to have a suitable solution for multi-channel replay, and their computers cost an absolute fortune! Their solutions appear to be targeted towards graphics, not replay.
This system does 4 channels as-is for about $2,000, and going to 8 channels bumps the price up to about $3000 -- a tiny fraction of the price of an entry-level laptop from AJT. And I don't see a 4- or 8-channel option on AJT's site.
What speed do you like your job wheel at?
1 frame per click
I like Roland replay device for this workflow but that device is only two channel 😡
Hi Doug! I have a question that is not related to the video above itself, but I hope you could help me. I'm looking for a smallest and lightweight possible camera with 3G SDI output (1080p 60fps) and M12 lens mount. The weight better be under 50 grams / 0.11 lbs. for the camera itself, not counting cables.
I've found a few: Atom Mini Air, Marshall Electronics bare plate camera, Aliexpress noname camera. Do you know other cameras on the market that will fit the search criteria? Thank you.
I haven't looked for something like this for myself, but from what I hear from the community. Marshall is the way to go.
@@djp_video Thank you
Can you do it on MacBook in wirecast
I'm not familiar enough with Wirecast to know. Perhaps someone else can weigh in.
Does that enclosure have PCIe x8 electrical or only mechanical?
Mechanical. Thunderbolt ix x4 so that's what it's passing through.
@@djp_video Ok. That unfortunately means you won't be able to use all 4 ports in 4k30 if you need, right?
We have been searching for a long time for a solution like yours and almost every single Thunderbolt enclosure is x16 mechanical but only x4 electrical.
So far, the only Thunderbolt enclosure that we think would actually use all of the Decklink 8k features is the Sonnet Echo Express SE IIIe, that features an x16 mechanical, x8 electrical slot.
I've used all four ports in 4k30 without issue.
The problem you're running into is that Thunderbolt itself is only x4. You can't really take an x4 interface and make it x8 or x16.