Douglas Murray | We're Moving From One Belief System To Another | Facing The God-Shaped Hole | RESET
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ย. 2020
- RESET is a series of conversations exploring the meaning crisis. With the help of cultural analysts and biblical scholars we're going back to the beginning - to Genesis, the West's great origins story - to see whether the ancient text can speak today.
In these interviews, Glen Scrivener asks questions about conflict, suffering, death, sex, equality, science, and what it means to be human. This first interview in the series is with bestselling author Douglas Murray whose views on religion can be seen in this blistering, 8 minute compilation: • Douglas Murray's 10 To... .
Here Glen and Douglas explore the themes of Douglas's book, The Madness of Crowds, and how theological our current crises are.
Subscribe to Speak Life and be the first to watch each video in the series. In future weeks we talk to
Katharine Birbalsingh
Tom Holland
Alastair Roberts
Miroslav Volf
John Behr
Wendy Alsup
Rachel Gilson
Rebecca McLaughlin
John Lennox
Rupert Sheldrake
Malcom Guite
Esther O'Reilly
Kristi Mair
Mike Reeves
Paul Vanderklay
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I'm not Christian but I think many valuable traditionally Christian values get rejected nowadays just for being 'Christian'
This is highly pushed by the left...
@William Woke Absolutely, nowadays Pageau's videos are a must-watch. He's a real genius.
You're Christian when you act in accordance with a Christian-based principle, not when you go to church.
There are plenty of non-churchy people who think in a more Christian way, or are curious about this other mind, this other way of thinking and taking life. _Metanoia._
Every true religion is based on sound moral principles which anyone decent person can adopt.
They have a phrase for that phenomenon: throwing out the baby with the bath water
A society which permits anything will eventually lose everything!
@M M I see you’re going around difference comments and in different channels oddly enough, denouncing religion and specifically Christianity. Are you ok? Looks like you’re crying out for help. You may be dealing with a personal problem and I hope you get better.
I sincerely do.
God permits your filthy self to do as you please... No interference from him.
Who are you to tell anyone what they can and can't do?
@M M you are such a nasty individual.
I'm really sorry to see you behaving this way.
Makes me think you've had a rough life, or maybe you're just a nasty creature, not even worthy of being called human.
And a lot of people believe in God as a coping mechanism when there's no one else or nothing else to help them.
Living a life knowing there's no real purpose is hard on one's mind.
I'd rather live life believing everything is a miracle, than believing everything is empty and meaningless.
Science made me feel empty and shallow. I'm not religious, but I do wish there were a god that uprooted all bad people.
The way people behave really shows just how wild and selfish we still are... Just like every other animal.
far right quote used in the last 15 yrs a lot
This man is a treasure.
This Murray fella doles out a good deal of of what used to known as ‘common sense’.
Except his notion that Christianity should come to the rescue. Very common, very little sense.
I tend to agree -- keep any religion out of the admittedly needed rescue. History doesn't reflect well on it as the Greatest Theory Ever Told, just as with any purely theoretical framework, as we also see with Marxism. We are capable of embracing and enacting the finest of values without a God, if one doesn't believe in one, or doesn't hold the notion central, or doesn't require the notion to be believed universally.
@@MaryMcDonaldLewis Have you perhaps also noticed (or is it me?) a nauseating trend among even stalwart Anti-Theists (or those who one would reasonably expect intellectually honest enough to be) flirting with this notion e.g. Murray, Brett Weinstein, N.D. Tyson, Paul Joseph Watson, even Sam Harris getting in bed with Majid Nawaz under the notion that Islam Lite will relieve us from the real thing?
Was going to include Dave Rubin and Jordan Peterson if it weren't for their lack of intellectual honesty. The notion of Religion as salvation is one of the cornerstones of their grift - too vast a clientele to leave unexploited.
@@MaryMcDonaldLewis God given rights, US constitution. 2020 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ?????
Here is the quote from 5:44
The special mark of the modern world is not that it is skeptical, but that it is dogmatic without knowing it.
-G.K. Chesterson
Ayn Rand, not a religious believer by any stretch of the imagination, famously and quite rightly said "The hallmark of the 20th century is hatred of the good for being the good"
Thanks for pointing that out. I missed it when I watched it.
@@CSUnger My 'thing' is to check quotes in the comments. Unfortunately, I can't confirm where Ayn said this? In the Age of Envy she does describe the idea (ref. aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/envy-hatred_of_the_good_for_being_the_good.html#order_3), but she doesn't say it in so many exact words. I like her quote "There's is no way to rule innocent men" and I admire the way she thinks and some of her ideas. I think the German's describe the emotion best with the word Schadenfreude. The English equivalent is epicaricacy.
@@thegeneralist7527 Generalist, here: fare.tunes.org/liberty/library/pwni.html It's in her address to the graduating class of West Point in 1974, towards the end, an essay I come back to time and time again to refresh my understanding of how to establish an argument and to keep things in perspective. I think her points are brilliant and it's one of the best example of logically following your premises to a conclusion. I'm not an Objectivist or necessarily a Randian fan; quite the opposite, in fact, being a Christian, but she hits it out of the park here, in my estimation and I try to get today's young people that I speak with to realize the very same things she is addressing here. They do not ask the big questions and so, they are held down by impulses and influences over which they have never willingly or should I say knowingly given their permission.
@@CSUnger Thanks for the reply! The reason I couldn't Google it is because the exact quote is "Hatred of the good for being the good, is the hallmark of the twentieth century. This is the enemy you are facing". She was quite the woman, addressing a West Point graduation class. I will read it now. Something I wish I had read 40 years ago!
I can't speak for Catholicism, but certainly Anglicism has become entirely flaccid having adopted a human rights interpretation of (for instance) the Sermon on the Mount, particularly their understanding of 'the meek shall inherit the earth', as opposed to a Jordan Peterson insight into 'meek' as one who has a sword, knows how to use it, but keeps it sheathed.
Loving one's neighbour as oneself becomes a sort of 'abra cadabra' for the opening of borders to economic refugees from North Africa, the Middle East and elsewhere, because we are so filled with post-colonial guilt, we have to suffocate our own cultures by allowing these refugees to keep theirs, whilst dismantling ours. It is a cultural madness otherwise known as Cultural Marxism.
@James Randall I can't speak for the UK, but here in Australia 'spirituality' has been deeply affected by ideas coming out of the late 60s. Any religion other than Anglicanism seems more appealing, particularly those popularised by people like Alan Watts (which I too found appealing way back when). My own upbringing was High Church, which I found claustrophobic at the time, because already prevailing sentiments had begun to change and those having anything to do with 'tradition' were being undermined. The result is that the modern 'Church' is confused, apologetic and thoroughly unappealing.
What seems critically important today is to find some way of restoring some semblance of traditional culture, understanding it'd be inappropriate/impossible simply restoring the past. The sort of questions a Roger Scruton might have asked: what is virtue (minus the 'virtue seeking')? What is 'beauty' (minus the debasement of the last century or so)? What is the transcendent God, one that stands alongside, and above, and below the commandment to honour one's father and mother; and in so doing to honour their fathers and mothers; and theirs, until you arrive at our very foundations (back in the Old Testament and the Homeric and Socratic traditions and the Stoics and St Augustine and Boetius and . . .). These too are our mothers and fathers, whom we've almost entirely forgotten, never mind found the time to honour.
The Church no longer guides society; we've given that over to Hollywood, the advertising industry and people with no moral compass whatsoever. For me, I return to my metaphorical larder, and take out my favourite preserves, like some of those mentioned above, along with J.S. Bach, Mozart, Rembrandt, Edmund Burke, Russel Kirk, Jordan Peterson to remind me of those things that touch on Absolute Truth, rather than the post modernist demolition of Truth.
I prolonged rant, I know, but you did ask.
I agree totally. The usual Liberal Marxist politicization of everything, even God. The arrogance!!
I have an interpretation of the biblical saying, "Turn the other cheek."
I actually believe that Jesus meant turn the other guys cheek ... With much force.
Funny most know that the messiah sent his disciples out without purse or sword. But they forget when they return he says now pick up your purse and sword because this world is evil. Must admit I dont understand completely what he's teaching there but its not blind pacifism. As for being struck in the cheek, that's an insult not an assault. More accurately it's a challenge. He didn't reprove Peter for defending him. He just told him to stand down. Just came to me ( I've thought about that for years) that maybe self defense is obviously ok but followimg the fathers purpose for your life allowing him to work through you is a higher purpose. But for most situations if your not led by the spirut in no uncertain terms not to resist I would.
@@hogwash9140 I love your 'turn the other guy's cheek . . . with much force' bit, though I don't think that is what Jesus meant. My own understanding, for what it's worth, is that the statement related to a modern adage that 'offence is given, not taken'. We had a little ditty when I was a boy, which I'm sure you would know, that 'sticks and stones may break my bones, but words never hurt me'. In practice, they often do, but that is because I have chosen to take offence. So, the problem lies with me, not the other bloke.
@@scottfunkhouser7491 There used to be an old Hebrew custom (and Arabic too, I believe) where you wiped the dust off your feet before returning home; the idea being, you have gone out into the world, faced those things that might otherwise turn you from The Path, but you dust your feet and leave all that outside. The 'dirt of the world' does not touch you. I believe this is a similar concept.
People criticise only the Human aspect in religions, without realising that spirituality is an integral part of Human existence and consciousness.
If neglected, forgotten or rejected, Humanity will indeed compensate by latching onto all kinds of alternatives.
👍
Yes like the blessed gay Jesus.
Another one who hasn't noticed that religion is man-made.
Unless one ignores or is willfully ignorant of its history and teachings it soon becomes apparent that religion or any other conveyor of falsehoods and/or superstitions is not the platform for or access provider to the spiritual (if such a thing even exists).
define "spirituality", another woo woo word
spirituality
/spɪrɪtʃʊˈalɪti,spɪrɪtjʊˈalɪti/
noun
the quality of being concerned with the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.
What a gentleman Douglas Murray is! He is not himself a professing Christian, and yet it is clear in his responses that he respects the person he’s speaking to. I think his final answer about Christianity was authentic and also generous in its diplomacy. Also, I read his book and have listened to his talks with Sam Harris. He’s a lot of fun to listen to!
The overly "woke" is what happens when a generation grows up with no real problems. They create real problems for the next.
You may be right
you really think so? and if so you dont think that generation was obviously the boomers?
"Woke" Oxymoron.
Why is it that the very people claiming to be the most “woke” are actually the most brainwashed?
@@Danaluni59 Oh how we pity them.
Great interview! What I love about Douglas Murray is that he’s so incredibly honest. Keep standing up for truth.
Douglas should start his own podcast and post a 2 hour episode every day 👍
This would be great, but I quite love that Douglas goes on so many unusual podcasts and shows like this one. That would be hindered if he did his own podcast.
gosh the man has to write!
@@tigermagda He does , if you look him up there’s quite a few books he’s penned :)
Douglas Murray is one of the best minds today.
Beware of those who teach diversity in which everybody, every philosophy, and all behavior must be accepted everywhere with standards adjusted to accommodate and to please everybody. They are really arguing for their own brand of conformity. The hidden trap connected with diversity is that it can cause you to accept what is and lose sight of what ought to be.
Arbitrary truth as promoted by the Frankfurt School and Marxism.
Well said
As you are probably aware, St Augustine said “Our hearts are restless until they find their rest in thee O Lord”. The God shaped hole you rightly refer to Douglas, can only be filled with God if we try anything else it will only lead to futility, frustration and dissatisfaction, as I can testify.
sally loudwill xx
I agree that Catholicism is imho the beast doesnt mean that Augustine didn't work truth sometimes and error sometimes like every other man. When asked what scripture should we read the answer was all scripture to me that doesnt mean all canoniz3d scripture by some group of elders I respect but to sift all of it trying to diligently winnow out the truth
.
the word god is distasteful to modern peoples senses.
The fundamental nature of God is Tathata, the dao or brahman. Depending on what language you can express it with.
emphasis should be put on ideas of quiddity.
@TheEsotericZebra And he's only a 'saint' because (some) humans
decided he is one.
I doubt that all of humanity was miserable until Christ came along.
I want to describe him as a genius but he is more than that douglas is the sanity in an insane world. The voice of common sense his power his how well he can articulate. A legend.
Douglas Murray is a fascinating man. So objective and honest.
The problem with people thinking that society is broken is that people think that society can be fixed. 🌎
The *truth* is that society is dead, and needs to be *redeemed*.
Good politics is good. But...
What we ultimately need is a new heart. 💔❤️
Jesus - I the Way, the Truth, the Life 😊🙏 ✝️
That said, keep fighting the fight against evil while we are here!!!
Amen!
This is not unlike the sun-struck bloke lying in the middle of the road, waiting for Christ to rescue him from the bulldozer bearing down on him. My advice to him is to simply get up and move out of the way. Christ has a tendency to help those who make an effort to help themselves.
What are we supposed to do if we see religions as the evil we need to fight against?
All this 'chosen people' bullshit is getting in the way of progress.
@James Randall the only religious problem i pointed to was The Chosen People.
All the rest just fell out of your head.
There is plenty of non religious people who dont subscribe to the bullshit. But when we dispute the 72 genders, we dont do it because the virgin in the dress said so on Sunday Morning.
If God had ordered yall to not abuse children, not over consume fossil fuels, and maybe has something in the comandments about rape and slavery, then we could talk.
But the bible is a bronze age goat herders manual to life and holds no relevence to a modern world.
Turns out your omniscient, omnipotent sky daddy didnt have the foresight to speak up on over fishing the oceans, single use plastics, CFCs destryong the ozone, he didnt even mention washing your hands before you eat, or point you in the direction of which plants to use as medicine.
Its all just worahip me worship me. Like a child crying for attention.
Seriosuly, how fcking blind must you be?
@@GDKLockout On that particular topic as blind as Murray apparently.
I've heard Douglas Murray many, many times. This is the first time I've listened to a Speak Life conversation. It's not the last time. This is very intelligent.
I wish that more people talked about or were aware of the fact that religion is inevitable. You cannot eradicate religion by replacing it with another religion.
It turns out that there is enough people who need a set of moral rules to follow but lack the ability to think them through.
Sad, but true, that ideologies are as human as breathing.
Such is the cycle of history.
Bock Saga is the only true ancient origins story.
@Abc Def It's a shame they aren't all geniuses like you.
@James Randall neitche was short sighted. I predict this century to be bloodier.
Besides that, given the overwhelming stupidity we see, would it not be advisable for people to be conteolled somewhat. Yes there is the risk of the system being corrupt so we should limit any system accorsingly. But if the technocratic global nwo bring an end to the pointless wars, and clwan up the earth. I wouldnt mind having to go to the libraey on a sunday and do empathy classes instead of church and vivle study.
My.point being its all the same. At one point the church was powerful and they were bastards when they were. We had kings who were regularly bastards too, now we have dumb ass governments robbing us blind and they are still warring non stop.
So if someone wants to end the barbarism with a social credit score. It might be worth a go at it. We can always rebell again, like everyone else in history and replace it with some other shit to oppress us.
I love that Douglas Murray never gets into hate, so intelligent.
I really appreciate Douglas Murray’s discussions! They are always enlightening!
I have to give douglas extreme props for discussing this stuff. He himself may not be religious. Idk. But all the same...douglas tries....examines...and goes into a conversation without fear...always curious...always open. He's fearless. I respect that
Indeed, but he does not have the government deploy Lawfare against him in the same way that Tommy Robinson or other English Nationalists do when they express their opinions. Do some background checks on Murray to find out why
@Annabel Lee Your 2 party state is controlled by AIPAC just as CFI/LFI control the UK. You also have to be a do'er not just a thinker. Were it not for AIPAC you may well have more people like JFK or currently Trey Goudy
@@TheNobullman He went to Eton and Oxford and Tommy didn’t ?
@@megaduck7965 He is also LGBTQ compliant and J****h
“We should admit that there might be a risk for not admitting such things.” Yes, so good.
It has lately become clear to me that I have a serious crush on Douglas Murray, even though I don’t always agree with him! 🤭😂 I wish I could, nonetheless, have him as a house guest so we could have amazing dinner conversations. He’s that magnetic. So if you ever read this, Douglas, the invitation stands!
With regard to religion, and in reference to this convo at about 14:30, I think that the idea of “God” and “being chosen” is VERY POLITICAL from the get go certainly when one studies the history of Judaism and the recurrent theme of “exile & restoration”. The subsequent development of “Christianity” and “Islam” is also strewn with politics. Just look at the history of heresy within the Abrahamic faiths (and one needs to look at all of them - not just “yours”). The fundamental political problem in life IMO has to do with the individual vs the collective, which occurs at so many levels as soon as we become “conscious” or “aware” , initially within our own biological family and then extending into the greater social spheres. That’s a mystery, and we have no belief system that I know of which helps us to deal with it.
In the history of religion, the whole topic of mysticism is a great example of this problem. Unless the mystic falls in line with the exoteric authority, and it’s emphasis on the letter of the law, rather than it’s spirit, they are deemed heretical and wont to be wiped out. But as Gershom Scholem wrote in ON THE KABBALAH AND ITS SYMBOLISM (1965) “it is the mystical experience which conceives and gives birth to authority” (referring here to how the esoteric informs the exoteric dimensions of religion).
On the topic of external authority out of control and trans youth, the lack of responsibility in the parents of trans children is the most alarming to me. Yes, the medical specialists are insidious as Murray points out, but it’s clear that have been too many weak individuals who’ve allowed their children to be mutilated and have consigned them to a profit driven medical system for the rest of their lives. Why isn’t it clear that it’s best to have a gay child (as the research now strongly tends to suggest that this gender dysphoria is actually about) than a mutilated one? Heartbreaking.
What a great turn of phrase: "a god-shaped hole."
It's a quite famous expression I think, my history professor said it in class once.
It's quite common, at least in some Christian denominations.
Yeah, the scientific name is god of the gaps.
This is a well-used phrase by Christians. It illustrates that we are in fact created in the image of God and need God, without reconciliation to our creator we are doomed. People will, as you can see all around you, will believe in anything rather than accept these truths.
@@twntwrs No, it refers to a different phenomenon altogether. Every enduring human civilization has had spiritual impulses.
Beautiful~ thank you ~ my heart and prayers go up for Doug Murray to whom I have been listening to for quite awhile now ~ I am a heterosexual (traditional) catholic woman ~
Keep praying for him.
Excellent discussion. I like the comment: "...easier, nicer aspects of Christianity without any hard bits...". I was raised a Roman Catholic, but there were many hard bits so to speak. I now bypass the clergy and the religion and use the Words of Jesus Christ as written in the four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John to create my path in life. I may go to heaven, I may go to hell but I am not a threat to anyone.
IMHO Mr Murry is a great man. He is a man of integrity and principles. He is a Gentleman. He just happens to be a Gay man.
Judge a man by the content of his character.
So sick of all these SJW's.
Mr. Murray is a silly man in pleading for Christianity to come to the rescue.
May you continue, Murray, in your swift, articulate and fair-minded seizure of the laurels: those of the greatest philosopher of our time. And thank you to the spur to your stallion, this astonishing interviewer.
Calm down mate
When you throw out a belief system, you have to replace it with something equally or more rewarding, offering the same or further horizon for human achievement. We're nowhere near doing that; instead the world system has replaced it with using people's sensual passions to distract them from noticing this deficit.
It is being replaced by Marxism. Fabians using the Cultural-Marxist agenda
News just in: There is no other belief system that can replace Christianity. I recommend the bible as a good read.
Happy Friday, one week later. In the absence of God and the filling if this hole, we have 2021. So many issues, thank you for shedding light to my wondering confusing concerns.
Love Douglas Murray & pray for his enlightened soul - may God draw him near as his heart certainly seems open. & God knows that we need him these days as he sees & speaks such truth.
He strikes me somewhat of a modern day CS Lewis
I really enjoy this channel because I was brought up in a very Christian family but lost my faith when I was in my late teens. Like Douglas Murray, I found atheism was not the answer and I continue to value Christian ethics but I cannot believe. I can't make myself believe. Somebody once said I shouldn't worry about belief and that I should concentrate on faith but how do I do that? If I can't believe, wouldn't I simply be believing someone else i.e. having faith that they are right about God etc? I'd love to hear a discussion about that.
What are your top three reasons for not believing?
Have you watched/read work by William Lane Craig, Ravi Zacharias and people like that? Have a look at these guys.
like you I have trouble with belief, but I do agree with much of the Christian teaching on a moral level and care for others, it is much more positive than alternatives and seems to understand the human condition and predict behaviours better
I found Christ in the four gospels. His amazing personality blazes out of those pages. His activity after the resurrection can be found in the first part of Acts and a view of his life in Heaven (where he awaits his Return) can be found in the Revelation. Paul is a needless distraction from Peter and James and should be avoided. #TrustChrist
@@hannannah1uk Hmmmm.. I find your dismissal of St. Paul as a “needless distraction from Peter and James” to be questionable at best.
And I’m Catholic! (Protestants tend to favor and emphasize St. Paul, I know).
@@hjr2000 great apologists
Praying Douglas Murray comes back to Christianity.
Old priests in palaces of gold, old predators on the young? Makes God seem crude.
@@Louiseskybunker are you not yet a Christian or a former Christian?
@@HearGodsWord oh ISA Christ gave perfect warning of the Lust Greed and Vanity of the Pharisees cryptosanhedrin PhariseeSanhedrin.
@@Louiseskybunker what's that got to do with praying for people though??
@@HearGodsWord the way you have used language is insulting; using the term 'christianity' as a deficiency/sufficiency proposition. The Abrahamic "Brotherhood" has proven itself to be of Lust, Vanity and Greed these last 1000 years -and to "pray" means to "recruit" in a creepy agitational, insulting way.
It must be the first time a dominant culture is shamed into submission and fading. Usually the conquest is through either physical force or commerce. One can't deny there is wits behind this current strategy, because the public is buying it ad infinitum.
I will say Douglas is fascinating to listen too. It just shows knowledge is power, power to discuss in depth however difficult it may be hard to hear. Knowledge and feeling is something to distinguish
Thank you! Great conversation. "I like the old gods more than the new gods".
Looking forward to more of Reset!
Maybe ask the next interviewees: what could society become if we go on resp. What if we turn back?
If I were you I would start praying now. Jesus is returning soon and this time He will returning to pass sentence not teach.
I'm proud to be a straight white man, Protestant for that matter; in other words, I'm content to be squaresville. (Nothing like an old 1950s hipster term for this.)
The problem with that, though, is that the Bible warns against any sort of pride. Our contemporary Western societies have turned pride into a virtue, which is anti-biblical at its core.
@@timothyrday1390 On the other hand there is form of sacred pride that the Children of Israel repeatedly abandoned when they adopted a fear of the Philistines rather than a covenantal reverence for the Lord.
@Ummer Farooq huh!?
@@timothyrday1390
Pride stands out in the deadly sins as one that you cant feel in a positive sense. But to use it as a motivation for an action, is generally negative.
@@warty3620 There is absolutely zero concept of "sacred pride" in the Bible. The overwhelming focus is on humility.
True... basing a belief system entirely on enumerated rights is pretty thin and highly volatile. Most belief systems from the Samurai to even the Postman's creed each list a group of foundational virtues (ie. Patience, Honesty, Humility, Courage, etc. ) Can't think of a single political belief system that openly lists any of these virtues or guiding values... it's leader's go against them constantly in order to operate.
Brilliant stuff, great interview Glen plenty of food for thought there. Douglas Murray is an intelligent, measured and thoughtful cultural commentator well worth spending time listening to him. Looking forward to the next episode.
...that went to an elitist school and craps on the likes of you
@@davideldred.campingwilder6481 for sure I'm against private education for many reasons but to criticise him on the basis of his background and not on the content of his argument is weak. And all to common a move these days sadly.
@@vix2140 it's in read, I'm afraid. You'd understand more if you had a larger culture harrass your own. What the Nazis felt for the Jew, the British felt for the Irish. He, in my personal opinion, represents this.
@@davideldred.campingwilder6481 I'm not sure I understand your point... 'a larger cultural harass of my own'? I'm not sure what assumptions you're making about me, as I don't believe we know each other. Maybe it's a typo? My point was simply that I don't hear any refuting of the points he makes in this video which might be more valuable in the conversation.
@@vix2140 well, that's just you jumping to conclusions. I've criticized him lots of times. Just not this time. So, be careful about making generalizations. That too is all to common a move these days sadly...
Fascinating conversation made me miss my days at Keble College. Definitely will follow further podcasts and Mr. Murray's books.
This man is, in my opinion, one of the few fair, measured and far-seeing minds I can engage with in the present turbulent times. He helps me to look at a wider picture and gain more insight into what is behind all the tribal division of today.
@@laravonstaden1838 well said I totally agree
"I prefer the old gods to the new ones". Damn
Spoken like a Stark
“If you think the old gods are bad, wait until you meet the new ones.” -JBP
@@bh3062 where did he say that?
Can i blame God ...
Chronos is my fave
As an atheist I'm always happy to listen to Murray.
What a lovely, lovely conversation! And the delightful voices are icing on the cake.
So interesting and refreshing to open these topics 👌🏽
Always wonderful listening to Murray
Douglas Murray fills the shoes left by Christopher Hitchens!
No he doesn't. Douglas is not a raging atheist and contrarian as C. Hitchens was.
Precious interview; thank you. You can tell Mr Douglas Murray also enjoyed it. God bless you both.
Such a great conversation - thank you to both!
To live life as though God exists, is to enquire, to seek, to listen and to obey. It's not simply living a good life or a principled life. It is interactive and transformative. It's a work in progress of the inner Man. I hope Douglas finds this element of it. Other than that point, I'm very impressed with Douglas Murray. He's a rare treasure of sanity and reason, in a batty world.
.
the point at the beginning is something I'm not sure I can agree on.
He says it is a Post-Christian/ way of thinking to believe 'all religions believe god is the same thing'.
Well, yes and no. Religions that I'm aware of such as Judaism, Christianity, Daoism, Buddhism and Hinduism all have a belief in god fundamentally (that's the important part) is the nature of god being akin to 'Tathata', the 'Brahman', or the 'Dao'. it was made clear in the gospel of saint john, and Saint Paul's Epistle to the Philippians.
I disagree with the christianity about jesus. which pedestalises him as 'the son of god'. this is a corruption of his teachings from the church. Jesus taught that we are all sons of god, it is made very clear in the gospel of saint paul, 82nd psalm.
However what I think Douglas means by that is the cultural elements of religion that stem from the societies where their ideas developed, which are the cause of the problem, being cultural and about controlling the masses to be a useful component of the greater project of society (which is bad).
I personally believe that 'Tathata' is the perfect fit for the 'god shaped hole'. Given the word 'God' is distasteful to many modern people.
Relentlessly brilliant, Douglas Murray.
Looking forward to this. Excellent choice of interviews.
Excellent interview, murray brought me to this channel via my suggested videos, and i have subscribed. Looking forward to catching up
Thank you, Glen, for opening up discussion on these contemporary issues! It’s so refreshing to listen to! Super to hear Douglas Murray but you are the one facilitating this!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Hands down one of the best interviews with Douglas I’ve seen. Well done!
“What you need is a gramme of soma. All the advantages of Christianity and alcohol; none of their defects.”- Aldous Huxley, Brave New World.
“Far better it is for you to say: "I am a sinner," than to say: "I have no need of religion." The empty can be filled, but the self-intoxicated have no room for God.”
― Fulton J. Sheen, Seven Words of Jesus and Mary: Lessons from Cana and Calvary
I’m not a Christian or even a huge fan of Murray, but an absence of any bedrock of morals that we can all collectively cooperate around will likely produce social and cultural entropy - the slow disintegration of the community. Which you could say is what’s happening now.
It doesn’t need to be Christianity. Christianity is just a form of it. But just some shared principles is needed.
I don't understand why it can't be or shouldn't be Christianity? What's wrong with it? It's worked for around for 2000 years, it's probably evolutionary built in to our brains by now. Let's just bring it back and value it this time.
You can't wipe out the connection of morals to Christianity
@@AdamSmith-de5oh because it is so totally illogical
Perhaps a philosophy based around Kipling's "If"
@@michaelwhite8031 So millions of non christians are less moral ?
I’m really glad I stumbled on this particular interview. For a while my thoughts have focused on explaining to folk there’s an awful lot of stock based on the Christian faith that has moved a societal norm of humanity in the west with particular political movements yet it disowns it at the same time. I wouldn’t say I’m a practicing Christian but my dad was a vicar and is a man who looks at the theologian aspects of Christianity as well as faith. For instance it’s forgotten what the Methodists did for welfare during the industrial revolution. I’m not totally understanding of it all but do recognise where modern day consciousness has come from and will never be so quick to reject it
Great interview, thanks, a pleasure to listen to! 👍
Good stuff 👍🏼
This fellow is brilliant, he is going to be the next C S Lewis when he meets Jesus! (Well let's pray!)
Such a brilliant conversation!
Mr Murray is so refreshing, thank you for having him!
Douglas, one of my favorites
OK FINE CHRISTIANS YOU WERE RIGHT WHEN PEOPLE GAVE UP ON JESUS THEY REPLACED HIM WITH SOMETHING WORSE
It's not to late to return to the true and the good.
@Jimmy Lynn Yes, please do tell!!! I certainly have not!
James Flames Civilisations die when their Gods die. E.M Cioran.
Do you really need to yell your opinion?
Nietzsche God is dead ideology was part of the destruction of Christian values
I am hoping that u will include Jordan Peterson in the list as he has just recovered and has started to come back to normal self.
Great conversation.
Beautiful. Thanks Mr Murray.
It's interesting how the world embraced the idea of God is dead. Now at this paradigm shift is clear to see that the judeo Christian values that shaped society are not only foundational bring many answers to most if not all problems of life.
Yup, I told them, but no-one listens...
“the glory of equality” is a disgusting idea.
The people that propose the idea know that they don't really believe that. The only way to achieve that equal outcome opportunity utopia is to equally enslave everyone. With the equal enslavement of everyone, there has to be a group at the top maintaining the enslavement. They know its not possible, they just want to be the slave masters.
It's not "disgusting" -- it's nonsensical, which is worse. Equality before the law is one of the fundamental tenets of our civilisation. Equality in any other sense is simply non-existent.
@@em3sis Is that where the NWO conspiracy theory comes from? Or, alternatively, is that the end goal of the real-life NWO plot?
@@myfrequencies1912 the NWO conspiracy really stems off of the prophecy laid out in the bible/book of revelation. Essentially a global agenda to establish a singular ruling class. One language, one currency, one global system, one religion.
@@em3sis Oh, but that's not even a theory.
May discussions like this lead toward revival. The West is in peril.
I subscribed to this channel before the interview with Douglas Murray started.
2 Timothy 3:1-5
King James Version
3 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Every knee will bend and every mouth will confess.
tongue...every 'tongue' confess that Jesus Christ is Lord
Love both of these men. People.
The most improbable sounding but on inspection most all round satisfying explanation of what is going on is that we stand at the end of the age of Pisces whose grace and compassion themes are falling into chaos and decadence. This is giving way to the era of Aquarius with the humanism, scientism but also dogmatism of that sign that years ago some astrologers warned people might not expect nor particularly like in that coming age they hope much from. Aquarius can side with freedoms to the point of eccentricity, but perhaps realizing its own dangers, in compensation can also opt for some pretty totalitarian solutions. It remains to be seen as Jung would allow, if what is approaching is the Aquarian Antichrist of the turning point. All the talk from Jerusalem about rabbis in communication with the Messiah only waiting for his moment now to appear, has some religious circles given to prophetic speculations waiting for the beginnings of apocalypse itself. Whatever, let no one scorn some astrological perspectives who has not read culture historian Richard Tarnas' rather spectacular "Cosmos as Psyche" which traces the main movements of history, art, religion, reform revolution etc following the kind of cycles the modern world has forgotten or is just sadly ignorant of.
Before Christ’s teaching there was no notion of universal human rights. No notion among humans that one race was not superior to others, etc. The end of slavery, the understanding that all persons are created as equals in worth in the eyes of the Creator..these and other wonders came about in the West first because of Christianity. And now so many believe the lie that white supremacy and other evils came from Christianity... God help us when so many have believed lies. May God open the eyes of those who have accepted lies as truth.
Christianity had been around for over 1800 years before slavery was ended. Why did it take so long?
@Theraphim Hebraeorum Buddhism is Self-centred.
Christianity centres on Christ. His kingdom is not of this world
and we was not sent by God. In fact, Buddhism is nihilism.
Listen to this - it helps if you have rejected Christianity -
th-cam.com/video/5TJvBxIXLlI/w-d-xo.html
@@IndyDefense Christ was not a social worker. He equips people to put an end to evil practices.
Read the Bible for further info!
Us being made in the image of God is why we value, celebrate and protect the unborn, the elderly, both sexes and all races, the other. If, as Christians believe, this is true, other faiths/atheists will feel the same, by gut instinct, because if it's true, it's true for all of us. Take that away, and as DM says we all become our own 'god' and what a mess we create for society.
Yes horrible secular Denmark, Holland, Swedrn are in a terrible state compared to the joys of religious theocratic Pakistan Iran, and Saudi Arabia
@@iainrae6159 er, what about New Zealand's imminent referendum for a terrifying euthanasia/assisted suicide law, France recently approved abortions up to 9 months of pregnancy for pretty much any reason... The 'civilised' West is no better, the further we move from Christianity, we end up playing God with lives that inconvenience us, or the elderly, disabled, depressed are made to feel their life has no value, and the world is better off without them. So sad. Everyone is loved and valued by God.
@@andreab2627
Your God demands to be worshipped endlessly and threatens those who choose other Gods.( first 3 commandments).
He sounds a nasty piece of work.
@@iainrae6159 you very clearly don't know 'my' God. But I'm not here to argue.
@Tinita Bondi
Your God is not worthy of endless worship and praise. and the Christian church has a history of crimes, threats and murder. Hippie Jesus would certainly have despised these organisations.
Douglas, top man, is an athiest by the way
So I am now an atheist, but agree that there are aspects of Christianity (and other religions) that we are missing now - certainly the sense of community, care and the encouragement to reflection on your life that the church provides. I also appreciate much religious music, art and architecture. Without wishing to offend anyone, I don't believe we need God for these things, but I do think we have lost our way generally as a society and part of that is our turning away from the old monotheistic religions.
You might also appreciate this interview in the series with historian Tom Holland th-cam.com/video/favILmUsVdg/w-d-xo.html
He shows that our debt to Christianity goes very deep indeed - even the problems we might have with Christianity (and everyone has problems!), are themselves deeply Christian.
I deeply appreciate Douglas Murray.
I appreciate his courage to speak honestly about society today. I respect his own self reflection. So many people refuse to examine themselves.
One of the quotes most Christians understand but that so many atheists despise is “Jesus Christ came into the world to redeem sinners, or whom I am the foremost.”
Replace the very fraught word “sin” with the word “damage” to either your mind, body or soul, or to another’s mind, body or soul; then take into account the Catholic understanding of the conditions of sin - 1. A person must KNOW something is damaging. 2. A person must believe and accept that something causes damage. 3. That person must TRULY BELIEVE that that thing causes damage and then knowingly commit the act in full knowledge they are damaging themselves and someone else’s relationship with God.
The damage exists whether we recognize it or not. But nobody can read or understand another person’s heart or mind, so we can’t see their level of understanding the way God can.
A person who has been raised without knowledge of the harm they are causing would be held far less accountable than a person who both understands and knowingly commits the damage.
I know I cause myself damage and I cause damage to others. I can’t judge anyone else. I can only repent my own failures and try to both repair the damage and avoid causing more damage to anyone.
I get the feeling that Mr. Murray is an Augustine, “Lord make me holy, but just not yet.”
He may never have a conversion experience. I hope he does. I think he’s lovely and thoughtful and very concerned about society and his fellow humans. He would be a wonderful person to have a conversation with about anything.
Such a shame they didn't let Mr. Murray speak more. If I wanted to listen to vacuous soundbites I'd listen to Biden.
I find the idea of a man as a kindergarten teacher actually goes against the widely held view that children from birth to about 11 or 12 need a female presence more than a male presence. This is especially true amongst boys. The male presence is needed more in the older children. This is why in groups such as scouting in the USA boys have a den mother overseeing the group up to the age of 12. Thereafter they have a scout or pack leader that is a man for the teenage years.
Widely held? After age 7 boys should be influenced by men
Murray is a wise man.
What great insight and mastery of precise language full of the nuance of a poet.
We took CHRIST out of Christianity and we need to put CHRIST back.
.
only in order for social control. I disagree with the christianity about jesus. which pedestalises him as *'the* son of god'. this is a corruption of his teachings from the church.
Jesus taught that we are all sons of god, it is made very clear in the 82nd psalm.
@@Purwapada what do you make of St Peter's answer to Christ question "who do you say I am?". Jesús was God, the Second Person of the Trinity. The Son, not "a son" of God.
.
@@cinderelladevil1687 What I would say is; The word "'The" is written in italics, many believe the italics are for emphasis - they are not, they are words interpolated by the translator. For example the greek and the hebrew vesions do not have 'the' son of god. To add to that the meaning 'son of god' means (or at least originally meant) 'of the nature of'. Not as what we think of as 'a son' in terms of kinship.
- So there I think the misinterpretations are from. (I hope this was useful/helpful for you)
@@Purwapada then what do you make of the second person of the Trinity??? Does He exist? Was He Jesús?
Jesús was not the same as Peter (or St John, or any other prophet for that matter) He must have been of a different nature if Peter was spot on on saying Who Jesús was as inspired by His Father.
.
@@cinderelladevil1687 Jesus meant that he, and everyone and everything were the sons of god. In the way jesus meant, they are all the same - in the way the spirit of god is in everything. a good way of understanding it is the hindu terms 'maya'; meaning the creative illusion/or the 'cosmic drama' gives you nd everyone the illusion of being themselves sperate from everything else - like an actor on a stage who gets so distracted by his own performance that he believes who he is acting is really him, when infact his true self, and what jesus meant by 'god' is what the hindus would call the 'brahman'.
Douglas Murray would make a great imperial officer in Star Wars.
Great stuff guys! Good responses and questions Glen
thanks Jonathan
Excellent interview.
And how is "no one should be treated differently based on characteristics they have no control over working?
For example how is the birth rate doing since we stopped insisting that men and women had different social roles? Oh right, it has collapsed to the point that our societies will simply cease to exist within a few generations except by importing millions of people from third world countries that don't share this individualistic liberal worldview and therefore still have positive fertility levels?
Population replacement happening before our eyes dressed up in the more cuddly multi-culturalism (is it my imagination or is that phrase now being pushed aside maybe to the next phase where Balkanised Britain is just the new normal) .
The Coudenhove-Kalergi plan best fits although it should probably be called by the name of his backers, the Warburgs
The low birth rate has nothing to do with extreme feminism. Women are attending University, getting good jobs that pay well. They have easy access to birth control. They are aware of the intense financial burden of having children, in our current economy. They are getting married later or not at all. Many women are CHOOSING not to have children, because they are self aware enough to know they would be terrible Mothers. Women aren't forced to marry a man and forced to procreate, to have financial security. Our population is shrinking, it's not going to cease to exist. lol
Are you suggesting that women stop attending University, stop having access to birth control, stop having financial independence? Should every woman be forced to give birth to at least 2 children? I don't think so. Our culture is changing, and traditional gender roles are no longer being forced on men and women. Which benefits both sexes.
@@sammyfayk9409 Hurr durr our population is collapsing but you refuse to extrapolate the logical consequences of that with "lol".
And yes, I'm suggesting that feminism was a mistake, not "extreme feminism", feminism full stop, the idea of treating both sexes the same.
@@jdg9999 Our population is not collapsing, that's absurd. Even if it was, it has nothing to do with feminism. Men are also choosing to not procreate at a staggering rate. Kids are expensive, especially in our current economy. Blaming this complicated issue solely on feminism, is absolutely ridiculous. It's far more complicated than that.
Also, you didn't answer any of my questions. What do you suggest society does to remedy this "problem"? Revert back to the social, financial and reproductive oppression of women? Force women to have children, force them to be homemakers, push them out of Universities and out of the workforce? Honestly, I don't know of many men who would agree with that "remedy". Living on a single income, with children is extremely difficult and stressful.
My point is; our shrinking population is caused by many factors. Feminism is merely a tiny fraction of the cause. We, as a society, are not going to revert back to pre 1970's society. That's impossible.
Slavery still exists in the West. It's just a slightly more civilised version.
Apparently more slaves in today’s world than ever. Estimated 27 million
How dare you. It's MUCH more civilised now.
& remember, it's just as LEGAL today as it ever was.
Goes the Marxist argument.
Thoroughly enjoying that, thank you
This is an act of Renaissance, go on. Very well.
My thoughts exactly
It was God that gave us our rights. Without whom there is no equality and human rights. If you are looking to man for justice, you will be waiting forever.
Everything and certainly everything of value has come from God through Christ and ultimately Christians in this world. If you through out our moral compass (the Bible) and try to make up our own rules it can only end in disaster.
God was made in man’s image
@@funkyfranx , It is the image of perfection. The wish for a better future, the hope of a second chance. The everlasting fire that burns in all of us. Got Jesus? If not you are missing out on the best part of living.
The modern world is remarkably like the old testament times especially the Book of Genesis. But God has a plan and redemption for Mankind is near. Trust in the Lord Jesus Christ
How lovely to see you again ; Douglas ! Me Too I like the poet Chesterton ( & me 2 I am a " baptised Catholic from Jan ☆☆ HUS " s Protestant country in the Heart of Europe ; Bohemia...My country even has the shape of a heart....Keep well and Always Be your Self.😎😎😎..m.
Nice to hear Colin Gunton get a mention! The One the Three and the Many was a fascinating book.
I'm sending it to him. He did say he was open to the intersection of philosophy and theology. Let's see what he makes of it.
@@SpeakLifeMedia I don't see how theology and philosophy can be quite separated in political philosophy. Compare:
“Those that think all virtue is to be found in their own party principles push matters to extremes; they do not consider that disproportion destroys a state. A nose which varies from the ideal ... ceases to be a nose at all on account of some excess in one direction or defect in the other; and this is true of every other part of the human body.”
[Aristotle - Politics]
and:
"For the body does not consist of one member but of many... If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? “ [1Cor12v14-17]
How DARE you say "run out" and get his book. Some people don't have working legs you know. I am so offended on the part of all of them, even and especially those that didn't take offense themselves, that I just died of brain aneurysm. And it's all your fault!!!
:-) I'm encouraged you got all the way through the video!
Always so funny people using the term Christians like it is different than the logical label of words to meaning. IF you are a Feng Shui expert...you study and accept FS dogma and practices. Muslims believe in the Quran and their prophet...so please...IF you speak of Christianity, accept that it is based on the tenants of Christianity, Christian Faith, and JESUS CHRIST. Not doing so and discussing Christian faith or dogma is laughable.
I've enjoyed Doug's point of view ever since first hearing of him and now in summer 2022 I run across this older podcast and am almost astonished at how ahead of so many he was then at warning us about the dangers inherent in the sjw movement; i say almost but not quite astonished because i expect no less from one of the leading contemporary intellectuals of our day
The street is cold, it's trees are gone,
The story's told, the dark has won.
Once we set sail, to catch a star,
We had to fail, it was too far.
It was on the way, on the road to a dream,
Now my heart's drowned in no love stream.
-Cream, Deserted Cities of the Heart