Survey: docs.google.com/forms/d/1aiIj-ttTzZTYGKlNeZKG_2Znig-9RaX4eGffK4vOGW8/viewform I talk about this at the end but my next deltarune video is planned to be an analysis of Berdly and the fandom reaction to him so I put out an anonymous survey for Berdly fans, haters and unopionated observers alike. it would be helpful if you took it! you can answer as few or as many questions as you want. let me know if there’s any issues!
Never thought about Berdly being neurodivergent, but suddenly it all makes so much sense. Berdly’s obsession with trying to seem smarter than, and thereby superior to, characteristically “weird” people like Kris and Susie could definitely be a means to hide any disabilities, or project fears he might have about himself. It makes his character a lot more fleshed out, honestly, and it adds up with his main role in the story, as the douchey rival who secretly has doubts of his own (It’s a bit more complicated than that, obviously, but this is the main role he plays as I see it. Now that Kris and Susie are capable of opening up to people in Chapter 1, their abilities are tested on a social level in chapter 2 with the introduction of the popular girl, the rival, the scammer, and a literal personification of the internet itself).
I am extremely neutral with him, but I wasn't expecting a question like "Is Berdly Neurodivergent" to be on the form. Maybe that's why he's sat with me weirdly
Tbf kris is probably the only human they've ever met so they probably don't have a very good knowledge of normal human behaviour. You could probably tie in the fact that kris is adopted in this too but I'm not sure how to go about it.
I like the concept that Kris sees the darkworlds as a tool to fix relationships as they've observed with Susie and Noelle and that that is why they're motivated to create one of their own. Though the Snowgrave does really screw with it same with any other interpretation.
anowgrave shows how one’s will and hopes and the like can be pulverized and reformed to near-opposite directions in the dark world. Maybe This time, it could be kris’ will, instead of our own being the force behind change?
Susie still becomes friendlier and more confident with Kris throughout her adventures during the Snowgrave route, so the idea of dark worlds being able to “fix” problems is still there. That’s my assumption, at least.
@@groundbird4904 Kris simply wanting to have some control on the direction of the story is also a good motivation especially cause it works for both routes.
@@Poseidon4862. I'm not exactly saying that Snowgrave makes Kris see the darkworlds differently In the relationship fixing way, I'm rather questioning if that motivation holds up with the very real danger being in a darkworld holds after Snowgrave.
One interpretation of that that I've seen, which I found really compelling, was that after the Weird Route Kris might be making the fountain in the hopes that Susie and/or Toriel might be able to help them. Both of them are people that Kris probably trusts and feels safe around, and neither of them seem like they'd be susceptible to the player's control the way Noelle was. They might believe another Dark World would be an opportunity for either of them to notice that something is horribly wrong. It's also possible that they trust Susie and/or Toriel to "keep them in line", i.e., to ensure that the soul can't make Kris do anything awful like that again. Either of them would probably put a stop to it if the soul tried to make Kris do something terrible while they're around. After all, we only get the opportunity to enter a Weird Route after Kris has been separated from Susie and Ralsei.
I think Kris eats the whole pie because in chapter 1 they woke up and didn't eat anything and it's implide that the dark world food isn't very filling so kris should be starving at the end of chapter 1
for more discussion on if Toriel's parenting is questionable, search up "the universal mother theory" which states that queen is a representation of not only Noelle's mother, but also everyone on the main cast (kirs, susie, ralsei and even berdly). This has some really big implications about how Kris feels about Toriel
I think that Dess is actually missing for 7 years now, because of that book of how to draw dragons. The book is 2583 days (7 years and a month) overdue, and we dont know who exactly borrowed the book because Berdly says "Now you can finally pay your *family* debt.", and I think that makes more sense (to me) that Asriel got the book instead of Kris. In the start of the second chapter if you go to the computer it will talk about a file of a making of a game with the last boss being something with rainbow wings (obvious reference to undertale Asriel's boss fight), and it also says that this game will never see the light of the day again. I really think that this game was being made by Asriel, if it was made by Kris it would prpbably referenced in that room of queen's mansion that was Kris' internet history. If Asriel likes making games/stories with characthers and stuff, its likely that he draws too. I dont really know how those 7 years relate to the dissapearence of Dess but maybe Asriel's change of interest in creating stories may be related to Asriel's grief of losing Dess (im not saying shes dead, but people also have grief with missing people), maybe he wanted to grow up or something like that, idk, and sorry for my bad English!!! English is not my first language
I don't think How to Draw Dragons relates to Dess's disappearance. The description of the book's cover is a dragon wearing lipstick dressed immodestly. I'm pretty sure the joke is that Asriel didn't return it out of embarrassment. As for why Toriel never returned it, I don't know - maybe she doesn't know where it is. But since you mentioned the search histories, I wonder what Asriel's dragon-related searches might have looked like... Maybe that's why Kris didn't look lmao
@@asdffdas254 Asriel and Toriel likely didn’t return it cuz of how puritan Toriel is. Losing her mind over him kissing a girl during spin the bottle, for example.
Hmmmm This video had me realize something, how even with the acknowledgement of deltarunes themes of escapism, and how the dark worlds represent that, we dont talk about home town much, rather we focus of what will happen in the dark worlds to drive the plot forward. But to me, it seems more likely that home town will be much more of a focus in the narrative. Wouldn’t it be in character for Toby fox and frankly more in line with the themes of deltarune that the main plot of the prophecy of the angel and the roaring would be derailed in favour of addressing the issues of hometown? Actually, what if the roaring never occurs at all? What if this adventure really is fabricated, and the gang derail it in order to confront the issues of their home? Have we been missing the forest for the trees? More over, did Toby want us to miss it?
While I like toirel, let not act she doesn't has a lot baggage. Some dialogue implies that she was very strict with Asriel and Kris, with only recently giving Kris more freedom. However she going to opposite of being a toxic positive parent as she kinda not seeing Kris's problems. If there one thing I think that missed opportunity with Undertale was that we didn't get a hang out session with Asgore in the pacifism route.
Asgore immediately being like "oh hello old friend!!" in true pacifist is weird imo, not after the asriel fight as that makes sense, but in the cutscene with everyone, dude you were almost gonna burn me alive and give some slaps while at it
@@mariotheundying And also the quick reduction of him to a comedic relief character that for some reason all his subjects take jabs at. This is the one characterisation Toby has done that wasn't earned at all. Clearly, he had no idea how to turn Asgore in the finale into the goofball that he envisioned him as so he kinda forced it.
@@DogDogGodFog Those parts were revealed well in the end of Neutral. Him being a goofball everyone let's let's being made fun of by a queen they never met wasn't revealed that well.
I've said this before on another video, but (admittedly, speaking from experience) I see Toriel and Asgore's relationship in Deltarune as a dismissive/anxious one. Toriel is the dismissive one, opting to flee from all confrontations to protect what she has, and Asgore is the anxious one, appealing to nostalgia and doing anything in his power to try to salvage what he once had. It's tragic and painful to watch unfold (heck, even sans turns his back during the grocery store confrontation) but it highlights that both of them have unresolved insecurities behind the mask they put on for the people around them, regardless of whether or not one of them is more "justified" in the divorce. I look forward to getting more context as the chapters continue.
From Toriel's dismissiveness and tending to act like problems "don't exist", I think she was the main one encountering problems in their marriage, while Asgore was blissfully unaware. Toriel never expressed her problems with Asgore and tension built until she decided that the best course of action would be divorce, completely blindsiding Asgore. TLDR: Toriel should have expressed her concerns and Asgore needed to see that she was having problems with their marriage.
@@MC_CN Oh for sure, and that's how many of these types of relationships tend to go. The avoidant won't say if something is bothering them to avoid uncomfortable confrontation, and the anxious won't know until it's too late and will desperately try to fix it. As an anxious myself, my bias wants to see Asgore as more of the victim, but it will ultimately depend on the context for their split. Toriel was very much justified for her disgust with Asgore in Undertale, but I could see Toby flipping the script for Deltarune.
To sum up the whole thing about people playing the blame game for who's right and wrong- at least, to sum up my thoughts on it- in Undertale, Asgore’s actions were wrong in the grand scheme but also very understandable. What he did was wrong but he wasn't wrong for doing it...if that makes any sense at all? Toriel is equally understandable for simply not wanting to deal with the situation. If I had to guess, their relationship issues in Deltarune will likely be similar in some type of way
One weird thing is that Toby said chapter 3 is the one that's very gimmicky and not lore heavy, which is basically the opposite of what you'd expect from it. The only explanation I can think of is that the lore in question is the whole thing with the Knight, which would make sense if it isn't Kris.
His version of not lore heavy is like Fromsoft saying that they'll have a small DLC for Elden Ring. It'll be incredibly lore heavy, but not as much as usual
Point of order but I recall a mention of Alphys giving Asgore comics at some point so that could intermingle with the setting to create a sort of flower themed superhero dark world no?
I'd like to think that he'd look a lot like his Undertale counterpart, but with a more flower type of getup. And I think he'd still have fire powers, and in the massacre ending of whatever dark world he appears in, his outfit gets progressively more burnt up
These video are a breathe of fresh air, given it been 2-3 years of waiting the next chapter, a good number of fans have kinda forget the context of the game.
This is an extremely underdiscussed topic in the community and there are some REALLY good ideas brough up here (The Weather couple, symbolism of the pie/Toriel and Asgore's methods with Kris, etc) amazing video, got a sub.
Finally, someone else who believes Asgore would show up in Chapter 3! Admittedly, I don’t really have any evidence of it either, but it really would be a perfect opportunity to directly address another side of the story that needs a lot of explaining. These have been by far the best analysis/speculation videos I’ve seen on Deltarune, and I really hope we see more in the future. Your attentiveness to character and story brings to light a lot of interesting details and relationships I never thought about before. Keep up the good work!
I have a feeling that a flower shop dark world could also work to address Asgore and Toriel’s relationship, because Asgore stated that he talks to his flowers about his relationship issues. It would be really interesting to see a boss or an enemy that repeats everything that Asgore said to the flowers back to Kris, creating some conflict
It's evident that in Chapter 3, we will meet (at least) *some* type of Flower character. I'm referring to the ones in the trash bin. It's another good object, that can be turned into a compelling character(s). Especially with how Asgore likes to trauma-dump at his flowers. I wonder how we will deal, with their whole: "thrown away for no rhyme or reason" type of stich. That event sounds traumatizing, from the viewpoint of a darkner.
@@omarchakrowf Alright, now imagine that ECHO FLOWERS will return in Deltarune. Maybe these Echo Flowers would be spaced out across the entire map. Upon interacting with it, we get a glimpse of Asgore's private life. It's a good and subtle way to develop his character.
Small critiqe on the video itself (not the script) It's hard to read the little text blurbs like the one about divorce rates. It might be better to either give them a solid background or just not have b roll gamplay when showing them, just to make them easier to read.
The ‘Cops are busy’ theory reminded me of what Alphys says in chapter 2 (paraphrasing) That the Police don’t actually do anything and that they’re just there to look the part, but in reality it’s *the mayor* that does their job for them and *she* handles all the crime. (Which is *insane* if you really stop to think about it) And the only thing I can think about something that the police *actually* contributed to was nabbing the dog bandits when they were trying to break in to the mayors house, but even then the bandits got so scared by *the thing* in the forest that they practically leaped into undyne’s arms. (I always lowkey felt that the thing in the woods is some kind of guard dog *creature* that the mayor has, or maybe she does experiments on the criminals that she catches? Like some sort of amalgamate situation?) Edit: I looked back on what Alphys says, and she *literally says*: “The police in this town are symbolic, they barely do anything. It’s because of the mayor that there isn’t any crime. It makes me wonder if she even needs the police, or if they’re just *getting in her way*”. Which makes me think that maybe the bandits were *supposed* to run into the creature in the woods, (maybe to either kill them or capture them?) but undyne screwed it up by catching them and locking them up, hence “getting in her way”. Actually, isn’t it weird how the only times there’s been any sort of “crime” are when it’s somehow related to the mayor? Dess’s disappearance, the bandits almost robbing her home but getting scared off by the creature, Toriel reporting the tire slashes when the mayor *just so happens* to be next door neighbors with her? 🤔 that’s odd. So maybe the mayor is the reason the station is closed or that they didn’t show up? Because I think it’s weird that they get the call and (seemingly) just ghost them for *hours* for no reason? Which wouldn’t make sense if they’re so bored anyhow and undyne already *loves* justice, unless they have to go through the mayor first before doing anything, and if that *was* the case, she probably told them *not* to go and that she would handle it. *But nobody came.*
This is very very interesting xD jokes aside, I have wondered this recently. We assumed very quickly that Undyne was going to be in the darkworld, and I think that darkworld could suit her by her having a similar role than Berdly in chapter 02, being the one wanting to pursue doing exciting things there as she is bored in real life and Toriel being more similar to Noelle being scared and confused, worrying about Kris and trying to protect them. However, it is very out of character from her to take so much time to come to the Dreemur´s. Sure, this can be taken as a convenience of the plot and that maybe something similar to the exaggerated traffic jam that really doesn´t make much sense in a place that has almost zero car traffic can happen again. Toby could create virtually any excuse for that, and a lot of people took last newsletter as a confirmation of Flower King chapter 04 dark world. However I can say that I kind of agree with the person that made this video that chapter 03 seems to be very focused on Kris family, and Susie´s comment about Kris family being weird adds to that.
@@MoRPho151 true! I can see that! Although to be fair, I would say that we really don’t know *anything* about her character, other than her being cold, strict, and overbearing. Also, from the time of the call to Kris opening the door, we could say (presumably, imo) that it probably took about an hour in between those events happening, which doesn’t excuse *either* the mayor or the police to *not* show up, especially if it’s the dead of night when *nothing else* is happening. However, I can also see it being a mundane answer, where maybe, if the police did call the mayor first and she told them that she would handle it, maybe she told them to wait till morning, or maybe she just went back to sleep lol. Also I find it strange that they even told Toriel that they would be over soon, but then neither one of them showed up? Which makes me think that undyne might show up somewhere in the middle of chapter 3, since usually by the time we’re done with a dark world, it’s in the evening/late afternoon time, but now that we’ve made one at night, having her come in halfway through the chapter makes sense to me.
The idea that the mayor lost her daughter and as such weakened the power of the police and took over a potential search for said daughter while making Asgore lose his position is actually a possibility. It would also make Noelle’s difficulty communicating with her mother make even more sense, cuz she’s neglecting her present daughter in favor of the missing one. I’m not sure about the tired slashed stuff.
Another theory for why asgore could show up in ch 3 is his relationship with undyne. Im sure like her UT counterpart, Undyne really looked up to asgore and prob still does despite his removal. I could see her overstepping and telling asgore that she got a call from the Dreemurr household since she is likely the only source he has for info on his family
I figured what Asgore wanted to talk about was whether or not/how long he'd be able to come over Toriel's house while Asriel visits. I presumed he's the type to at least wanna hold a full-family celebration for Azzy's return.
Everyone makes fun of Vivziepop for putting Daddy Issues into every character, but no one bats an eye when Toby Fox puts Mommy issues into every character.
I took that as how we relate to them from Undertale. Like some people like them together some people fight about them so, for DR the path of least resistance and conflict was to let them the same way they were in the other game. Also, they could end in better terms that in undertale at the end but after some development and not suddenly xD.
@@MoRPho151 i will give you an answer on my opinion in a second or like 3 years Depending on it but honestly i have lost the context and i need some time to look it back up but yours is probably a good way to look into it
It's a fair assessment that a child of divorce is a relatable position for many children, considering high AF divorce rates and it's completely within Toby Fox's track record to include it as both means of storytelling and representation among the fan base. Same reasons you might include a character with vitiligo, or a blind character, even if it doesn't affect the plot. It can be nice to see that sort of representation in fiction. Of course, in this case the divorce is more than coincidental though and plays a huge role in the story!
Asgore showing up in Chapter 3 would be sick. Like, I'm sure Undyne would be fun to show up in a dark world, but she isn't important at all so far so having her show up in a dark world full of references to Kris' home would be a bit odd. Another TH-camr, Guilty Flygon, suggested that instead of the police showing up it could be Mayor Holiday instead since she does most things herself, and redirecting the 911 calls to her personal phone seems in character. Either her or Asgore showing up would be cool. I also think there is a possibility for Asgore to show up in the church dark world. He heard Rudy was going and wanted to support his friend, and he also wants to use it as an excuse to see Toriel(but Toriel doesn't show up because the Dark World excursion tired her out so she sleeps through the service). I do hope we get Toriel in our party at least for a bit, if only so I can see all the reactions she has to the consumables. The tea especially
I dont see Asgore being in Chapter 3. Like why would Asgore be at Toriel's house that late in the night? Is he stalking her? Unless Undyne takes precious time that could be used dealing with the criminal to wake up and send a citizen with no equipment to arrest or handle a potential home invader that is most likely asleep, Asgore wouldn't be there
in undertale more then anything i think what drove asgore and toriel apart was grief and how they handled it they just lost both their children and couldn't deal with it asgore still loves toriel but he's angry hurt and sad after losing everything and as a king everyone was looking at him at that moment toriel wasn't wrong to leave and asgore could have gone through the barrier after 1 soul to get the rest but he didn't really want to rage war on humanity it was said in a moment of anger and passion but the words weren't true that's why he didn't go through with it why he ends it all if flowey isn't there to do it i have no clue why they broke up in deltarune
"and asgore could have gone through the barrier after 1 soul to get the rest." That's bullshit and we know it, when she said that, it was in a heat of moment. You know, soul has a split control over monster's body right? If they disagreed, then a monster and human would've died for NOTHING. Toriel's dogshit argument only exist cause Toby is obviously biased for her (Just look at how she's written in both games, we both know that's the truth) and she is one of his favorite characters while Asgore isn't. Which causes problems like artificially constructed and very one sided arguments as a result of this bias, which makes peoples (who understands that this is not one sided as much as Toby tries to make out to be) dislike her even more.
@@urdeadnotbigsuprise7439 "Toriel's dogshit argument only exist cause Toby is obviously biased for her (Just look at how she's written in both games, we both know that's the truth) and she is one of his favorite characters while Asgore isn't" I'm sorry? If I remeber correctly, the whole "cross the barrier" idea was exactly what got asriel and chara killed, and given how the game redirects the player through the true lab (where they learn that information) its not likley that toby wants you to overlook how dogshit toriels argument is. In fact its probably the opposite.
@@jonahulichny9874 The problem is, She never once acknowledges her wrongdoings or anyone else points out her bullshit. Notice how everyone else starts to come when she done her shit talking?
@@urdeadnotbigsuprise7439 "The problem is, She never once acknowledges her wrongdoings or anyone else points out her bullshit." I don't think the game needs to tell you that she has flaws in order for you to pick up on that. In fact you clearly did pick up on it, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. As for everyone coming to your aid once toriel does, thats more or less coincidence. We know this because basically everyone did not expect to see toriel there. Undyne first meets toriel during that moment, not before. Same with alphys who says "(there are two of them?), and papyrus straight up asks if asgore shaved and cloned himself, which implies he did not even knows toriel existed. The only one there who had a previous connection to toriel (besides asgore) is sans, and even then, he didn't expect her there. To top it all off, alphys directly states he called everyone there except for toriel. TLDR: toriel had nothing to do with everyone else showing up, she was just there first.
@@jonahulichny9874 I guess you misunderstood my point, I'm talking about how everyone else comes AFTER Toriel is done her talking, cause Toby knows If anyone (other than Asgore) heard the things she said then done nothing, they would've been OOC. Asgore's trauma gets brushed aside cause "haha divorced" jokes from cast, I'm not even getting on the point about how UT and DR is so anti-straight for some reason.
Plosives sound fine to me, but if you’re ultra worried about it you could get a pop filter. Or you can pretty easily make one yourself - stretch a thin sock (nylon typically is best) over a hanger and place it between your mouth and the mic when you record so that the air from your syllables is absorbed by the sock rather than hitting the mic :)
A Flower Dark world themed around Undertale will be interesting, not to mention its been possibly confirmed that Chapter 3 and 4 will release on Undertale's 10th anniversary and the Undertale theme for the chapter because of the big celebration would be SO peak
It would defeat the idea of “Deltarune isn’t undertale”, fans already have a bad habit of forcing the two as being the same. A flower shop dark world would be rad, but it having it be “the undertale world” would steamroll how these are two separate games.
@@WhiteCresentKnightIt's just one dark world, I don't think it would completely derail the concept of Deltarune being different. I think Toby Fox gets to wholesale reference the game that put him on the map as a video game developer in a game where many of the characters originate from Undertale and many of its aspects reference the game.
@@WhiteCresentKnight who cares about fans? If we decided against doing certain things just to prevent certain stupid fans from thinking stupid things, there wouldn’t be a lot to do.
in terms of asgore's shop not having any abandoned entertainment-focused items around, i do wanna bring up the comic that alphys gave him. we havent seen much of their relationship (or alphys' personal life at all for that matter) thus far, and knowing their past and dynamic in undertale i think it would be interesting if the flower king dark world also centered around alphys being a sort of emotional rock for the dreemurs. she has the solid connection to asgore in undertale and deltarune, and in deltarune both kris and toriel seem to place a decent amount of trust in her as a teacher/colleague. though she is decently distant from the family at large, i still feel like she may have filled a little bit of the hole that was left after the holidays distanced themselves during the divorce. slightly unrelated, but if all of that is true, i think the possibility of a darkner enemy and/or ally taking a similar form to mettaton ex (kind of opposite of how the mtt/alphys dynamic was with frisk in hotland? mtt as more of a white knight and alphys as a reluctant antagonist) would be a super cool reveal since we know he exists in the dr universe. that might just be my mtt bias talking though lol
Hooo, that's actually a really great hypothesis ! Kris using the fountains to fix their relationships would be really interesting ! Also, about the Flower King Darkworld - Flowers could actually be a source of entertainment : In Undertale, we know that Chara is a "nerd" when it's come to flowers and gardening, which we know to be a passion they had in common with Asgore. And althought that was in Undertale, we know that while Toby sees the 2 games has different entities, he aknowledge Deltarune to be an experience directed to Undertale players, allowing us to make connections and comparaisons just like everyone does. My point being, since gardening was a passion that bounded Asgore and Chara in UT, and Kris being some sort of "fusion" of Chara and Frisk, could it be possible that gardening is also a source of entertainment for Kris. I can't think of anything in DT backing this up, but it would make sense in my opinion.
what a refreshing video!! its been a while since ive watched a good ol utdr character analysis vid and the fact that this combines that with speculation about future chapters is great honestly there are so many little things shown to us about the relationship that i just kinda... forget about, so to see them pointed out plainly like this is awesome what was especially fascinating to me was the point about toriel ignoring problems instead of confronting them and this potentially leading to some stunted developement within kris, i have never thought about any of the examples you gave and it was just so so interesting great great video!!!
I feel like this doesn't JUST apply to their relationship, but also Deltarune as a whole. There's not enough info on ANYTHING with just 2 out of 7 chapters. Everybody's talking about who the knight is, what the vessel means, why Kris is able to take out their soul, but we're still so early in the game right now it's kinda unnecessary to do it. Toby is the kind of person to tease things early on and then have them be revealed much later in the game, yes, but I'm sure like- 3 things will return later on.
tbf im pretty sure people do that because we have to wait literal years for each chapter release and after a certain point, you start running out of things to talk about lol. but you are right. its easy to forget because its been so long but we are still very early into this game, we dont know shit right now.
While Toby says chapter 3 won't be story heavy, having more "unusual gameplay gimmics", also confirmed by the latest newsletter with Toby talking about them, I really feel that when he says it won't be story heavy, he means won't have much info on the knight/Gaster/Strange man etc. - Because while it isn't HEAVY on story, it will still have it, mainly with all of the Dremmur family, with more backstory on Kris/Toriel etc, but it will still have small mentions of the important characters like the knight.
@@mysticalaces8623 I really feel like just chapter 2, it will depend on the route, in a pacifist, she would try to talk to Asgore and stuff, trying to listen to whatever his point is and having Asgore take more care of Kris and Asriel. - In a neutral route like the one Berdly loses a arm, their relationship would stay the same as always, maybe a bit worse. - While in weird route, I don't know what will happen in it, but if Toriel survives, I can already hear a slap on Asgore face
15:43 - Heeheehee that's me! I definitely agree with your thoughts on why Kris made the dark fountain, those were my thoughts too! I was going to say that I think the double door room at Flower King will not be a dark world, but rather have information on why Asgore was removed from the force, as well as the Dess case. But then I realized... there's actually _two_ inaccessible rooms! There's the one with the double doors, and the one that can('t) be accessed from the building's side door. At first I thought they were the same room, but the double-door room is on a different floor. So... what the heck? Why are there two mysterious inaccessible rooms in Asgore's house? I don't even know what to make of this!
ooh that sounds cool! regarding /two/ inaccessible rooms, I think the reason the two locked doors seem to be on different floors is because asgore’s house just appears as a one-story building on the outside despite being two stories - hometown buildings are wonky like that - but who knows.
Another banger Stuffed Alpaca video! I always love how frank and unbiased you are, using your logic and knowledge of the narrative and themes to make theories and cutting through fanon accepted falsehoods. I also appreciate the analysis of toriel and the comparison to ralsei!
Deltarune toriel seems to hate her version of Asgore way more where as in undertale it feels more like a deep disappointment that could be repaired one day
That would've been the case in Undertale if the circumstances aligned, because Asriel didn't die in Deltarune, so they're (probably) aging normally, as Boss Monsters, regarding "immortal."
I disagree. I think you flipped it. Undertale Toriel seems to strongly hate Asgore (which is where a lot of annoyance for his character stems from since she’s a hypocrite who disrupts multiple moments to hate on him). There’s also the fact she won’t forget or forgive him for the child killing, since she likely spent time with each kid who fell. While Deltarune Toriel does seem to dislike him (trashing the flowers), it also is more amicable. Asgore’s attempts to try and fix things w/ Kris’ help could feel uncomfortable to her and she wasn’t a huge hater in the grocery store. She’s dismissive but it seems like she wants to get along somewhat for the kid’s sake.
i mean toriel straight up just calls him a "pathetic whelp" in undertale whereas in deltarune she just kinda awkwardly goes "oh ha ha look at the time, i must be off" every time he tries to talk to her so im not sure about that lol.
I am SO glad you’re of the belief that Kris probably made the newest fountain as a means to connect with their mom and solve the various domestic problems. That’s been my running theory since I first reached the end of chapter 2, and it’s so upsetting to me that no one else seems to think that way! One of my biggest beefs with, “Kris is the Knight” or “Third entity” theories is that they’re both a massive discredit to Kris’ character by assuming they made the fountain for evil reasons or out of their own control. It’s not a trait that’s put out in the open, but Kris is characterized as very intelligent, charismatic, and a schemer. It takes a lot of forward thinking to pull the sort of pranks on Noelle that Kris is known to do, and the ACTs they preform with very little input from us beyond a single word are also a sign of intelligence. It’s entirely within the realm of possibilities that Kris enjoyed their time in Chapter 1 and 2, understood exactly what made them so great, listened to Queen explain how to make a fountain, and then decided that they wanted another one, this time including their mother.
Those were some really very interesting points about the calls! Also, I hope you get well soon! Anyway, great analysis video! Thanks for uploading! 19:05 Surprising. Chapter happens on a school day, but Kris's family used to go to service (church) on Sunday. So students also attend school on Saturday OR Rudy attends church on Saturday? I suppose the latter is reasonable.... But, still, it means "tomorrow" isn't the day Rudy, & thus, presumably, the rest of his family, is expecting to go to church. 20:00 I'm disappointed that I can't tell which.
I really hope there will be a lot fo characters or darkners on CH3 being couples while Toriel saw them and starts being Jealous about it (also hope to see more about this toriel and her relation by the main bosses from the darkworld, also thinking of it bc i see two of them on the chapter, maybe)
I've absolutely been of the opinion that Kris is deliberately using the Dark Fountains as a tool to fix their life since just after Chapter 2 released, making them also narratively the strongest candidate for the Knight. Every single chapter has a had a strong narrative attachment to the people immediately surrounding Kris' life. Susie was a bully, but now is a good friend. Berdly was full of himself, but now has been humbled. Noelle was too timid and scared to stand up to others, but now she is stronger. But, given the fact that the Dreemurr family is so deeply attached to Noelle's, the exploration of Kris' family will most definitely begin to delve into the incident that led to her disappearance, first through Toriel's perspective (and will help with their relationship by helping Toriel to understand Kris, and to treat them mature enough to have a serious conversation about the divorce), next through Asgore, and finally through Asriel, finally addressing the disdain Kris seemingly has for him, and answering what happened to Dess from the perspective of the kids who were likely present when it happened.
@@asdffdas254 dislike isn't the word I used, nor do I think it's appropriate. But, it's clear that Kris doesn't have a strong relationship with Asriel at the current point in the story, with Asriel having been gone for possibly years to university and not having shown much signs of keeping constant contact. Pair that with the obvious favoritism in their room, Kris' reluctance to talk about or associate with things to do with Asriel (ESPECIALLY in the player's presence), I'd be far more shocked if they DIDN'T have some sort of falling out than if they did.
@@GameJam230 Pretty sure they keep in touch, they message each other online all the time. Toby said on stream that Kris's room being barren wasn't an indication that their parents didn't love them (the kid gets drove to school and walked in with their hand held lol) so I don't think there's favoritism - I'm pretty sure Kris is just the type of kid that doesn't keep a lot of things (frankly they seem a bit depressed, i think they're on autopilot a lot of the time)
@@asdffdas254 Favoritism doesn't specifically need to come from the parents. There's a whole lot more society out there than one single household. I'm also going to need a source with regards to them "messaging each-other online all the time"
IMO the superhero comics on top of the TV in flower king work quite well as a form of entertainment for a dark world to focus on. alphys lent them to him, and he seems to be attempting to cultivate a relationship* with her via gifting her flowers. i could see the theme being something like "if you cling to the past and your nostalgia forever your ability to build a new life will be greatly stunted in service of a past you can never return to" or something, with being a superhero representing being the head of the police force. it might overlap too much with the dreemurr family home chapter, though, so i could really go either way on it *not sure if it's strictly platonic or whatever on asgore's end but alphys seems to want to interpret it as romantic at least, even if only playfully as in undertale. asgore probably just wants to be her friend because he's a nice guy
Honestly it will be very interesting if you will do every hidden/genocide route where then you run across the school hall and it suddenly becomes night time and then suddenly day time and the thing could repeat over and over, till we see -sans- just being disappointed and leaving this world with -his brother papyrus-
Fun fact, there is no proof they ever got divorced in undertale. First off she never filed any divorce papers and she can’t still claim the title as queen so she can be divorced they’re only separated. Even in Deltarune, it’s not confirmed a divorce Because toriel says “ dreemurr residence” and we know she hates and would rather not be called by it. So that would mean she’s required to say that
I was actually considering bringing up that they might not be technically divorced and possibly even on a “break” as troubled couples sometimes do but then the “eggs-husband” joke slapped me in the face regarding ut, yeah I don’t think toriel would’ve bothered with a legal divorce process. asgore calls her his wife and when you spare him he talks about how he and toriel can take care of frisk as if he expects them to be a couple again. I don’t think he realized that wasn’t gonna happen until she called him a miserable creature… the last name thing is interesting though because she does go by “ms toriel” at school but like so does alphys since it’d be strange to give them canon last names/maiden names when they didn’t have them in ut. divorced mothers sometimes keep their last names for convenience especially after a long marriage even if they’re not on good terms with their ex and “dreemurr residence” could just be because her kids are still dreemurrs but I do wonder how she feels about it
@@astuffedalpaca5365 yeah I get that but we know from undertale toriel doesn’t like using the name dreemurr since it’s asgore she tell frisk not to refer to her by that . Also in the alarm clock Tori and Asgore are on very good terms so true Pacifist has them be back together seemingly
@@aresrivera9744 well they dont really talk, toriel only responds to him once. i feel like if they were back together toriel would've noticed asgore was all alone out there and would get him but she didnt notice he was gone and undyne had to be the one to get him (same with him being in ice where she didnt notice him as well)
Even though it is kind of a loophole that so much time passes before Undyne would arrive to their home, it just seems way too obvious she would be in chapter 3. I am still convinced Kris knows something about the disappearance of Dess and it trying to convince people it has something to do with the dark world. Undyne specifically because of whatever that incident with Asgore was. As a way to kind of "prove" it had nothing to do with him or something? Then again, I used to strongly believe this until Toby implied Chapter 3 would be light on the main story and more of a side event. Not sure if that was what he meant, but it seemed like it. That would imply even if two characters who would really have a lot to do with some major story beats were in said dark world, somehow nothing important was addressed? Who knows.
i saw someone on twitter suggest that asgore might be acting as a kind of superhero for hometown, based mostly on the presence of cape comics in his room and alphys saying "he's like a superhero." that could be another potential reason for asgore to show up in chapter 3. also, as far as party member toriel goes, i think it's possible that we'll see a much different side of her in the dark world. we know from rudy (and the undertale alarm clock dialogue) that toriel is something of a party animal when not on mom duty, so perhaps she'll just interpret the dark world as a dream and cut loose completely there. especially given that the dark worlds have a trend of acting as wish fulfillment, i think it'd be a great way to explore this other side of her character, which we wouldn't otherwise get many opportunities to see in action.
I always thought the party animal side of her was something she used to be a lot more often in her youth. Then she met Asgore and after getting married and pregnant, she knew she had to put that part of her aside for the sake of her family.
Just wanted to bring up how there are flashes between some transitions, apparently only visible to me on a brighter monitory. Examples: 10:42 near the word "reflects", and then subsequently on the word "either"... I'm gonna move the window to a less bright monitor to have it be less visually jarring there.
I think deltarune will conclude on sans and his brother will go to the undertale universe. It is not just speculation, some texts are literally telling that there is someone from another world and sans and papyrus came out of nowhere so? Why not think sans and papyrus actually appeared out of nowhere.
I am SO HAPPY to find someone who agrees Asgore will likely be in Ch.3! I've thought this for ages and your the first person on youtube I've seen agree!
I think it would make sense that Asgore would be there, I just dont see how Why is Asgore at Toriel's house late in the night? If the police sent him, does that mean they wasted precious time to wake up an ordinary citizen with no equipment or authority to handle a home invader? Asgore is no longer a cop so it's not his jurisdiction to handle these threats. If there was a home invader, wasting time like that would only risk the safety of the people being potentially robbed.
18:21 i mean, An Undertale themed Dark World would go hard, like maybe chapter 7 would be a distorted dark world version of Undertale's many Locations, like Snowdin, Ruins, etc. And it could've been created from OUR memories. No, not Kris's memories, OUR memories of Undertale, mixed with the dark world elements.
I wonder if we will see home videos incorporated into the dark world? DR Toriel seems like the type to document everything (having familt pictures everywhere) and the Dreemurr tapes were an important moment in the true lab in Undertale. If they are, its going to be a reallt gut wrenching scene
I already agreed with the thumbnail, but there were angles to this that i hadn't thought about. It's interesting. I kinda like some of the ideas of the flowershop not being a dark world.
I'm of the opinion that Asgore won't be in chapter 3, if only because I hope we get a chapter in his flower shop, and meet him in the dark world there, as a later counterpart to Toriel being in this one earlier in the story.
Can you PLEASE do more Deltarune character analyses? 🙏🙏🙏 Every single one you made so far was a BANGER and they've kept me sane during the deltarune content drought
Hmm, I see a kind of chiasm here: Asriel: Highly favored by his mother to the point it's concerning, might have a rocky relationship with his dad. Kris: Disfavored by Toriel and obviously not on best terms with her, but seems to be on good terms with Asgore.
The theory of kris bringing toriel to the dark world to fix things is interesting, but it raises the question: why does kris do this after a snowgrave play through?
The dark worlds so far have both been themed after forms of escapism, board games and the internet, and escapism can give people a safe space where they can confront their issues. Maybe Kris is thinking that by giving their parents the fantasy of the dark world they can finally be a happy family again.
In the same vein of the darkworld being made in the hopes of fixing people's problems, I still think about Undertale being a game developed in-universe by Asriel, inspired by real life stuff and in the hopes of helping Kris cope with what they were feeling.
Is curious that this video dropped out now, because this is something I have been thinking lately when I see people talking about the possibilities of chapter 03 regarding Toriel and Asgore. I mean, Asgore, what did you do? Toriel, why are you so mad with Asgore? I mean, whatever happened with Dess couldn’t have been that bad for them to divorce since Rudy is not that mad to Asgore. But again, in Toriel’s case could be that was the last straw for her after many things. This is what I have thought so far but I am really intrigued about what happened this time xD
I have a theory (not much proof but hear me out) What if dess is in a dark world?, it makes sense cuz dess just "disappearing" makes less sense than her accidentally entering a dark world, especially since we don't have much proof of her dying or anything like that, and there are dark worlds that we don't know abt (the one in the library), and the reason sje can't get out is cuz there should be someone with a soul (kris) to seal the fountain and get out. Besides, the fact that the dreemurs are likely to be more involved in later chapters could be a sign that some information abt dess will be revealed. But that's just a theory....A GAAMMEEEEE THEORYYYYY!!! (Sorry for my bad english, I just woke up and I'm still half asleep lmao)
i remember a few years ago seeing a theory about how in deltarune, determination referred to ones ability to create stories. its possible, then, that this might be building on that in some way. while we see characters grow as a result of their dark world adventures, none of said dark worlds were EXPLICITLY made by kris (and thats assuming the kris knight theory is real). the chapter 3 dark world, then, would provide a very blatant representation of this theme, showing how through kriss determination (artistic capabilities), they were able to create a work (dark world) that helped others grow in a positive manner but also... this kind of begs the question of if that would even work. after all, of the characters that have grown, the only one we can really speak for is susie, and... im going to be honest i have no clue how much of a threat she ever was. there isnt really any mention of her bullying people outside of that one noelle blog post, and that seemed to imply that susie and kris were at least somewhat evenly matched, so while its undeniable that her experiences in chapter 1 helped her grow as a person, we really lack the capability to effectively gage how much people can or will grow from a dark world trip it also could also tie in to another theory that deltarune is about escapism (idk where i saw this one, 4chan maybe??). this seems backed up by some of the post queen fight dialog, where the characters discuss how the dark world (metaphor for fiction, if we take this as legit) is "better" than the light (real) world, at least in some ways. if this is the case, i could just as well see kris failing in their plan, with chapter 3 being about how you shouldnt confuse reality with fiction or something. idk
[SPOILERS FOR OMORI] one time tobie tweeted something bout someone making a game (possibly omori) with a plot thats very similar to one hes making (probably deltarune) if he was talking about omori and deltarune there kris probably killed dess and covered it up
The theory that Kris distracted the police and is luring Asgore instead of the police is imo a *way* better theory than what I thought was the only possible reason they slashed the tires. Undyne and Napstablook don't really have a narrative reason, or logical reason to be in Chapter 3. They have no major "overarching plot" going on unlike Asgore, Toriel, and Noelle and seem to mainly be there as comedic relief. And what are the police going to do about it? It just never made sense to me, but I thought that it was the only conclusion to why they slashed the tires. They have zero connection to the Dreemurr household at all, and like you said, the fact that they *never* came implies that they're busy with something. Asgore, on the other hand, makes complete perfect sense to be there narratively and from Kris' perspective. I'm going all in on this theory, it might not end up being true, but this makes the most sense to me, and makes way more sense than bringing in Undyne or Napstablook
![ออกพรรษาน้ำตาหล่น - แอน อรดี [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/PFZtOcY9ONA/mqdefault.jpg)
Survey: docs.google.com/forms/d/1aiIj-ttTzZTYGKlNeZKG_2Znig-9RaX4eGffK4vOGW8/viewform
I talk about this at the end but my next deltarune video is planned to be an analysis of Berdly and the fandom reaction to him so I put out an anonymous survey for Berdly fans, haters and unopionated observers alike. it would be helpful if you took it! you can answer as few or as many questions as you want. let me know if there’s any issues!
I do wonder what the response would be, as a Berdly fan
Done, can't wait for your next videos, I love your content :)
Never thought about Berdly being neurodivergent, but suddenly it all makes so much sense. Berdly’s obsession with trying to seem smarter than, and thereby superior to, characteristically “weird” people like Kris and Susie could definitely be a means to hide any disabilities, or project fears he might have about himself. It makes his character a lot more fleshed out, honestly, and it adds up with his main role in the story, as the douchey rival who secretly has doubts of his own (It’s a bit more complicated than that, obviously, but this is the main role he plays as I see it. Now that Kris and Susie are capable of opening up to people in Chapter 1, their abilities are tested on a social level in chapter 2 with the introduction of the popular girl, the rival, the scammer, and a literal personification of the internet itself).
I am extremely neutral with him, but I wasn't expecting a question like "Is Berdly Neurodivergent" to be on the form. Maybe that's why he's sat with me weirdly
Well, I'm pretty sure that Toby Fox intentionally wrote him to be annoying.
I assumed people thought Kris’s weirdness was normal because they are human and they think all humans are weird
And like, we are, but that's beside the point.
Tbf kris is probably the only human they've ever met so they probably don't have a very good knowledge of normal human behaviour. You could probably tie in the fact that kris is adopted in this too but I'm not sure how to go about it.
I like the concept that Kris sees the darkworlds as a tool to fix relationships as they've observed with Susie and Noelle and that that is why they're motivated to create one of their own. Though the Snowgrave does really screw with it same with any other interpretation.
anowgrave shows how one’s will and hopes and the like can be pulverized and reformed to near-opposite directions in the dark world. Maybe This time, it could be kris’ will, instead of our own being the force behind change?
Susie still becomes friendlier and more confident with Kris throughout her adventures during the Snowgrave route, so the idea of dark worlds being able to “fix” problems is still there. That’s my assumption, at least.
@@groundbird4904 Kris simply wanting to have some control on the direction of the story is also a good motivation especially cause it works for both routes.
@@Poseidon4862. I'm not exactly saying that Snowgrave makes Kris see the darkworlds differently In the relationship fixing way, I'm rather questioning if that motivation holds up with the very real danger being in a darkworld holds after Snowgrave.
One interpretation of that that I've seen, which I found really compelling, was that after the Weird Route Kris might be making the fountain in the hopes that Susie and/or Toriel might be able to help them. Both of them are people that Kris probably trusts and feels safe around, and neither of them seem like they'd be susceptible to the player's control the way Noelle was. They might believe another Dark World would be an opportunity for either of them to notice that something is horribly wrong.
It's also possible that they trust Susie and/or Toriel to "keep them in line", i.e., to ensure that the soul can't make Kris do anything awful like that again. Either of them would probably put a stop to it if the soul tried to make Kris do something terrible while they're around. After all, we only get the opportunity to enter a Weird Route after Kris has been separated from Susie and Ralsei.
Asgore truly the most divorced character in fiction
You heard of girlfailures, now you see guy failuries
Throught heaven and earth, he alone is the divorced one.
If I had a nickel for every time asgore was divorced I would have 2 nickes which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice
Him being divorced is kind of a meme in the fandom, so actually I think you're right
He's tumbler sexy man, but reverse
I think Kris eats the whole pie because in chapter 1 they woke up and didn't eat anything and it's implide that the dark world food isn't very filling so kris should be starving at the end of chapter 1
They plug the tv in between chapters they are doing something
My hungry ass would do that
for more discussion on if Toriel's parenting is questionable, search up "the universal mother theory" which states that queen is a representation of not only Noelle's mother, but also everyone on the main cast (kirs, susie, ralsei and even berdly). This has some really big implications about how Kris feels about Toriel
what i find interesting is, for some, she's how they see what a mother IS. for others, she's how they see what a mother OUGHT TO be.
What? Queen isn't like a mom at all for anyone but Noelle.
@@goese868 watch the theory, it's actually quite sound
It's on YT
Divorce is indeed the target audience
Yeah :(
the target audience is people who played undertale when they were teenagers in 2015 but the new fanbase aint ready for that
I think that Dess is actually missing for 7 years now, because of that book of how to draw dragons.
The book is 2583 days (7 years and a month) overdue, and we dont know who exactly borrowed the book because Berdly says "Now you can finally pay your *family* debt.", and I think that makes more sense (to me) that Asriel got the book instead of Kris. In the start of the second chapter if you go to the computer it will talk about a file of a making of a game with the last boss being something with rainbow wings (obvious reference to undertale Asriel's boss fight), and it also says that this game will never see the light of the day again. I really think that this game was being made by Asriel, if it was made by Kris it would prpbably referenced in that room of queen's mansion that was Kris' internet history. If Asriel likes making games/stories with characthers and stuff, its likely that he draws too. I dont really know how those 7 years relate to the dissapearence of Dess but maybe Asriel's change of interest in creating stories may be related to Asriel's grief of losing Dess (im not saying shes dead, but people also have grief with missing people), maybe he wanted to grow up or something like that, idk, and sorry for my bad English!!! English is not my first language
Asriel now kinda reminds me of hero from omori
I like this and you did really well with your english
I don't think How to Draw Dragons relates to Dess's disappearance. The description of the book's cover is a dragon wearing lipstick dressed immodestly. I'm pretty sure the joke is that Asriel didn't return it out of embarrassment. As for why Toriel never returned it, I don't know - maybe she doesn't know where it is. But since you mentioned the search histories, I wonder what Asriel's dragon-related searches might have looked like... Maybe that's why Kris didn't look lmao
That is a long book then
@@asdffdas254 Asriel and Toriel likely didn’t return it cuz of how puritan Toriel is. Losing her mind over him kissing a girl during spin the bottle, for example.
Hmmmm
This video had me realize something, how even with the acknowledgement of deltarunes themes of escapism, and how the dark worlds represent that, we dont talk about home town much, rather we focus of what will happen in the dark worlds to drive the plot forward. But to me, it seems more likely that home town will be much more of a focus in the narrative.
Wouldn’t it be in character for Toby fox and frankly more in line with the themes of deltarune that the main plot of the prophecy of the angel and the roaring would be derailed in favour of addressing the issues of hometown?
Actually, what if the roaring never occurs at all? What if this adventure really is fabricated, and the gang derail it in order to confront the issues of their home?
Have we been missing the forest for the trees?
More over, did Toby want us to miss it?
I think the Light and Dark worlds are equally important
While I like toirel, let not act she doesn't has a lot baggage. Some dialogue implies that she was very strict with Asriel and Kris, with only recently giving Kris more freedom. However she going to opposite of being a toxic positive parent as she kinda not seeing Kris's problems.
If there one thing I think that missed opportunity with Undertale was that we didn't get a hang out session with Asgore in the pacifism route.
Asgore immediately being like "oh hello old friend!!" in true pacifist is weird imo, not after the asriel fight as that makes sense, but in the cutscene with everyone, dude you were almost gonna burn me alive and give some slaps while at it
@@mariotheundying And also the quick reduction of him to a comedic relief character that for some reason all his subjects take jabs at. This is the one characterisation Toby has done that wasn't earned at all. Clearly, he had no idea how to turn Asgore in the finale into the goofball that he envisioned him as so he kinda forced it.
Well, in Undertale, toxic positivity was definitely her character theme.
@@duckling3615It was for the sake of surprise-revealing him to be a shy and self-doubting individual.
@@DogDogGodFog Those parts were revealed well in the end of Neutral. Him being a goofball everyone let's let's being made fun of by a queen they never met wasn't revealed that well.
I've said this before on another video, but (admittedly, speaking from experience) I see Toriel and Asgore's relationship in Deltarune as a dismissive/anxious one. Toriel is the dismissive one, opting to flee from all confrontations to protect what she has, and Asgore is the anxious one, appealing to nostalgia and doing anything in his power to try to salvage what he once had. It's tragic and painful to watch unfold (heck, even sans turns his back during the grocery store confrontation) but it highlights that both of them have unresolved insecurities behind the mask they put on for the people around them, regardless of whether or not one of them is more "justified" in the divorce. I look forward to getting more context as the chapters continue.
felt so bad for sans in that cutscene lmao.
From Toriel's dismissiveness and tending to act like problems "don't exist", I think she was the main one encountering problems in their marriage, while Asgore was blissfully unaware. Toriel never expressed her problems with Asgore and tension built until she decided that the best course of action would be divorce, completely blindsiding Asgore.
TLDR: Toriel should have expressed her concerns and Asgore needed to see that she was having problems with their marriage.
@@MC_CN Oh for sure, and that's how many of these types of relationships tend to go. The avoidant won't say if something is bothering them to avoid uncomfortable confrontation, and the anxious won't know until it's too late and will desperately try to fix it. As an anxious myself, my bias wants to see Asgore as more of the victim, but it will ultimately depend on the context for their split. Toriel was very much justified for her disgust with Asgore in Undertale, but I could see Toby flipping the script for Deltarune.
To sum up the whole thing about people playing the blame game for who's right and wrong- at least, to sum up my thoughts on it- in Undertale, Asgore’s actions were wrong in the grand scheme but also very understandable. What he did was wrong but he wasn't wrong for doing it...if that makes any sense at all? Toriel is equally understandable for simply not wanting to deal with the situation.
If I had to guess, their relationship issues in Deltarune will likely be similar in some type of way
One weird thing is that Toby said chapter 3 is the one that's very gimmicky and not lore heavy, which is basically the opposite of what you'd expect from it.
The only explanation I can think of is that the lore in question is the whole thing with the Knight, which would make sense if it isn't Kris.
His version of not lore heavy is like Fromsoft saying that they'll have a small DLC for Elden Ring. It'll be incredibly lore heavy, but not as much as usual
@@hypnoticskull6342 as someone who has played the lost kingdoms series, i can confirm just how much is packed in fromsoftware's smallest works.
Ive seen people compare it to hotland, where the stuff with alphys and mettaton starts but isn't that developed lore wise until the core
Point of order but I recall a mention of Alphys giving Asgore comics at some point so that could intermingle with the setting to create a sort of flower themed superhero dark world no?
I'd like to think that he'd look a lot like his Undertale counterpart, but with a more flower type of getup. And I think he'd still have fire powers, and in the massacre ending of whatever dark world he appears in, his outfit gets progressively more burnt up
Dude as the messenger child of divorce 🥲 the flowers interactions cut deep. I could talk all day about it
Why flowers in your opinion? Most fights are verbal in divorce by my experience
These video are a breathe of fresh air, given it been 2-3 years of waiting the next chapter, a good number of fans have kinda forget the context of the game.
This is an extremely underdiscussed topic in the community and there are some REALLY good ideas brough up here (The Weather couple, symbolism of the pie/Toriel and Asgore's methods with Kris, etc) amazing video, got a sub.
Holy crap
Is that the pod where the research happens
Finally, someone else who believes Asgore would show up in Chapter 3! Admittedly, I don’t really have any evidence of it either, but it really would be a perfect opportunity to directly address another side of the story that needs a lot of explaining.
These have been by far the best analysis/speculation videos I’ve seen on Deltarune, and I really hope we see more in the future. Your attentiveness to character and story brings to light a lot of interesting details and relationships I never thought about before. Keep up the good work!
I have a feeling that a flower shop dark world could also work to address Asgore and Toriel’s relationship, because Asgore stated that he talks to his flowers about his relationship issues. It would be really interesting to see a boss or an enemy that repeats everything that Asgore said to the flowers back to Kris, creating some conflict
And echo flowers in UT do just that, repeat what was said
Steven Universe Cactus!
It's evident that in Chapter 3, we will meet (at least) *some* type of Flower character. I'm referring to the ones in the trash bin.
It's another good object, that can be turned into a compelling character(s). Especially with how Asgore likes to trauma-dump at his flowers.
I wonder how we will deal, with their whole: "thrown away for no rhyme or reason" type of stich. That event sounds traumatizing, from the viewpoint of a darkner.
@@omarchakrowf Alright, now imagine that ECHO FLOWERS will return in Deltarune. Maybe these Echo Flowers would be spaced out across the entire map. Upon interacting with it, we get a glimpse of Asgore's private life. It's a good and subtle way to develop his character.
Susie: kris wth dude!? Why did you open that dark fountain!?
Kris: my parents split up when I was little😭
Susie:???
Small critiqe on the video itself (not the script)
It's hard to read the little text blurbs like the one about divorce rates. It might be better to either give them a solid background or just not have b roll gamplay when showing them, just to make them easier to read.
The ‘Cops are busy’ theory reminded me of what Alphys says in chapter 2 (paraphrasing) That the Police don’t actually do anything and that they’re just there to look the part, but in reality it’s *the mayor* that does their job for them and *she* handles all the crime.
(Which is *insane* if you really stop to think about it)
And the only thing I can think about something that the police *actually* contributed to was nabbing the dog bandits when they were trying to break in to the mayors house, but even then the bandits got so scared by *the thing* in the forest that they practically leaped into undyne’s arms.
(I always lowkey felt that the thing in the woods is some kind of guard dog *creature* that the mayor has, or maybe she does experiments on the criminals that she catches? Like some sort of amalgamate situation?)
Edit: I looked back on what Alphys says, and she *literally says*: “The police in this town are symbolic, they barely do anything. It’s because of the mayor that there isn’t any crime. It makes me wonder if she even needs the police, or if they’re just *getting in her way*”. Which makes me think that maybe the bandits were *supposed* to run into the creature in the woods, (maybe to either kill them or capture them?) but undyne screwed it up by catching them and locking them up, hence “getting in her way”.
Actually, isn’t it weird how the only times there’s been any sort of “crime” are when it’s somehow related to the mayor? Dess’s disappearance, the bandits almost robbing her home but getting scared off by the creature, Toriel reporting the tire slashes when the mayor *just so happens* to be next door neighbors with her? 🤔 that’s odd.
So maybe the mayor is the reason the station is closed or that they didn’t show up? Because I think it’s weird that they get the call and (seemingly) just ghost them for *hours* for no reason? Which wouldn’t make sense if they’re so bored anyhow and undyne already *loves* justice, unless they have to go through the mayor first before doing anything, and if that *was* the case, she probably told them *not* to go and that she would handle it.
*But nobody came.*
This is very very interesting xD jokes aside, I have wondered this recently. We assumed very quickly that Undyne was going to be in the darkworld, and I think that darkworld could suit her by her having a similar role than Berdly in chapter 02, being the one wanting to pursue doing exciting things there as she is bored in real life and Toriel being more similar to Noelle being scared and confused, worrying about Kris and trying to protect them.
However, it is very out of character from her to take so much time to come to the Dreemur´s. Sure, this can be taken as a convenience of the plot and that maybe something similar to the exaggerated traffic jam that really doesn´t make much sense in a place that has almost zero car traffic can happen again. Toby could create virtually any excuse for that, and a lot of people took last newsletter as a confirmation of Flower King chapter 04 dark world. However I can say that I kind of agree with the person that made this video that chapter 03 seems to be very focused on Kris family, and Susie´s comment about Kris family being weird adds to that.
@@MoRPho151 true! I can see that! Although to be fair, I would say that we really don’t know *anything* about her character, other than her being cold, strict, and overbearing.
Also, from the time of the call to Kris opening the door, we could say (presumably, imo) that it probably took about an hour in between those events happening, which doesn’t excuse *either* the mayor or the police to *not* show up, especially if it’s the dead of night when *nothing else* is happening.
However, I can also see it being a mundane answer, where maybe, if the police did call the mayor first and she told them that she would handle it, maybe she told them to wait till morning, or maybe she just went back to sleep lol.
Also I find it strange that they even told Toriel that they would be over soon, but then neither one of them showed up? Which makes me think that undyne might show up somewhere in the middle of chapter 3, since usually by the time we’re done with a dark world, it’s in the evening/late afternoon time, but now that we’ve made one at night, having her come in halfway through the chapter makes sense to me.
The idea that the mayor lost her daughter and as such weakened the power of the police and took over a potential search for said daughter while making Asgore lose his position is actually a possibility.
It would also make Noelle’s difficulty communicating with her mother make even more sense, cuz she’s neglecting her present daughter in favor of the missing one.
I’m not sure about the tired slashed stuff.
batman batman batman batman batman batman batman batman batman batman batman
Another theory for why asgore could show up in ch 3 is his relationship with undyne. Im sure like her UT counterpart, Undyne really looked up to asgore and prob still does despite his removal. I could see her overstepping and telling asgore that she got a call from the Dreemurr household since she is likely the only source he has for info on his family
I figured what Asgore wanted to talk about was whether or not/how long he'd be able to come over Toriel's house while Asriel visits. I presumed he's the type to at least wanna hold a full-family celebration for Azzy's return.
NEW STUFFFED ALPACA VIDEO????
Mommy issues is a recurring theme.
Everyone makes fun of Vivziepop for putting Daddy Issues into every character, but no one bats an eye when Toby Fox puts Mommy issues into every character.
@@pancakes8670 no clue who that is but I hope they don't get harassed anymore.
@@pancakes8670 TBF, Viv put drama on Daddy issue while Toby put subtlety on mommy issues.
@@pancakes8670true, but Toby fox doesn’t resolve the daddy issues in the same episode it’s introduced in
@@pancakes8670I wouldn’t choose vivziepop as an example for using parent issues on characters
Great analysis, never thought of the possibility of the divorce being a recent thing but that would make some sense
"Perhaps this was to make deltarune more immersive to his target audience" is WILD jesus Christ what did we do to you 😂
I took that as how we relate to them from Undertale. Like some people like them together some people fight about them so, for DR the path of least resistance and conflict was to let them the same way they were in the other game. Also, they could end in better terms that in undertale at the end but after some development and not suddenly xD.
@@MoRPho151 i will give you an answer on my opinion in a second or like 3 years Depending on it but honestly i have lost the context and i need some time to look it back up but yours is probably a good way to look into it
It's a fair assessment that a child of divorce is a relatable position for many children, considering high AF divorce rates and it's completely within Toby Fox's track record to include it as both means of storytelling and representation among the fan base. Same reasons you might include a character with vitiligo, or a blind character, even if it doesn't affect the plot. It can be nice to see that sort of representation in fiction. Of course, in this case the divorce is more than coincidental though and plays a huge role in the story!
What? It's the truth lmao
I think it may be a self own as well
Asgore showing up in Chapter 3 would be sick. Like, I'm sure Undyne would be fun to show up in a dark world, but she isn't important at all so far so having her show up in a dark world full of references to Kris' home would be a bit odd. Another TH-camr, Guilty Flygon, suggested that instead of the police showing up it could be Mayor Holiday instead since she does most things herself, and redirecting the 911 calls to her personal phone seems in character. Either her or Asgore showing up would be cool. I also think there is a possibility for Asgore to show up in the church dark world. He heard Rudy was going and wanted to support his friend, and he also wants to use it as an excuse to see Toriel(but Toriel doesn't show up because the Dark World excursion tired her out so she sleeps through the service).
I do hope we get Toriel in our party at least for a bit, if only so I can see all the reactions she has to the consumables. The tea especially
I dont see Asgore being in Chapter 3. Like why would Asgore be at Toriel's house that late in the night? Is he stalking her?
Unless Undyne takes precious time that could be used dealing with the criminal to wake up and send a citizen with no equipment to arrest or handle a potential home invader that is most likely asleep, Asgore wouldn't be there
@@mysticalaces8623 you can watch the video to see the theory on how that could work
in undertale more then anything i think what drove asgore and toriel apart was grief and how they handled it
they just lost both their children and couldn't deal with it
asgore still loves toriel but he's angry hurt and sad after losing everything and as a king everyone was looking at him at that moment
toriel wasn't wrong to leave
and asgore could have gone through the barrier after 1 soul to get the rest
but he didn't really want to rage war on humanity
it was said in a moment of anger and passion but the words weren't true
that's why he didn't go through with it
why he ends it all if flowey isn't there to do it
i have no clue why they broke up in deltarune
"and asgore could have gone through the barrier after 1 soul to get the rest."
That's bullshit and we know it, when she said that, it was in a heat of moment.
You know, soul has a split control over monster's body right? If they disagreed, then a monster and human would've died for NOTHING.
Toriel's dogshit argument only exist cause Toby is obviously biased for her (Just look at how she's written in both games, we both know that's the truth) and she is one of his favorite characters while Asgore isn't.
Which causes problems like artificially constructed and very one sided arguments as a result of this bias, which makes peoples (who understands that this is not one sided as much as Toby tries to make out to be) dislike her even more.
@@urdeadnotbigsuprise7439 "Toriel's dogshit argument only exist cause Toby is obviously biased for her (Just look at how she's written in both games, we both know that's the truth) and she is one of his favorite characters while Asgore isn't"
I'm sorry? If I remeber correctly, the whole "cross the barrier" idea was exactly what got asriel and chara killed, and given how the game redirects the player through the true lab (where they learn that information) its not likley that toby wants you to overlook how dogshit toriels argument is. In fact its probably the opposite.
@@jonahulichny9874 The problem is, She never once acknowledges her wrongdoings or anyone else points out her bullshit.
Notice how everyone else starts to come when she done her shit talking?
@@urdeadnotbigsuprise7439 "The problem is, She never once acknowledges her wrongdoings or anyone else points out her bullshit."
I don't think the game needs to tell you that she has flaws in order for you to pick up on that. In fact you clearly did pick up on it, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion.
As for everyone coming to your aid once toriel does, thats more or less coincidence. We know this because basically everyone did not expect to see toriel there. Undyne first meets toriel during that moment, not before. Same with alphys who says "(there are two of them?), and papyrus straight up asks if asgore shaved and cloned himself, which implies he did not even knows toriel existed. The only one there who had a previous connection to toriel (besides asgore) is sans, and even then, he didn't expect her there. To top it all off, alphys directly states he called everyone there except for toriel. TLDR: toriel had nothing to do with everyone else showing up, she was just there first.
@@jonahulichny9874 I guess you misunderstood my point, I'm talking about how everyone else comes AFTER Toriel is done her talking, cause Toby knows If anyone (other than Asgore) heard the things she said then done nothing, they would've been OOC.
Asgore's trauma gets brushed aside cause "haha divorced" jokes from cast, I'm not even getting on the point about how UT and DR is so anti-straight for some reason.
Plosives sound fine to me, but if you’re ultra worried about it you could get a pop filter. Or you can pretty easily make one yourself - stretch a thin sock (nylon typically is best) over a hanger and place it between your mouth and the mic when you record so that the air from your syllables is absorbed by the sock rather than hitting the mic :)
yeah I realized later in editing that they weren’t as noticeable as I’d thought. thank you for the advice!
THE NEW MIC SOUNDS SO GOOD KEEP IT UP!!
A Flower Dark world themed around Undertale will be interesting, not to mention its been possibly confirmed that Chapter 3 and 4 will release on Undertale's 10th anniversary and the Undertale theme for the chapter because of the big celebration would be SO peak
We aren't waiting that long 💀
It will probably release late 2024 to somewhere in 2025
It would defeat the idea of “Deltarune isn’t undertale”, fans already have a bad habit of forcing the two as being the same. A flower shop dark world would be rad, but it having it be “the undertale world” would steamroll how these are two separate games.
@@WhiteCresentKnightIt's just one dark world, I don't think it would completely derail the concept of Deltarune being different. I think Toby Fox gets to wholesale reference the game that put him on the map as a video game developer in a game where many of the characters originate from Undertale and many of its aspects reference the game.
@@WhiteCresentKnight who cares about fans? If we decided against doing certain things just to prevent certain stupid fans from thinking stupid things, there wouldn’t be a lot to do.
I actually feel insanely bad for deltarune asgore now
in terms of asgore's shop not having any abandoned entertainment-focused items around, i do wanna bring up the comic that alphys gave him. we havent seen much of their relationship (or alphys' personal life at all for that matter) thus far, and knowing their past and dynamic in undertale i think it would be interesting if the flower king dark world also centered around alphys being a sort of emotional rock for the dreemurs. she has the solid connection to asgore in undertale and deltarune, and in deltarune both kris and toriel seem to place a decent amount of trust in her as a teacher/colleague. though she is decently distant from the family at large, i still feel like she may have filled a little bit of the hole that was left after the holidays distanced themselves during the divorce.
slightly unrelated, but if all of that is true, i think the possibility of a darkner enemy and/or ally taking a similar form to mettaton ex (kind of opposite of how the mtt/alphys dynamic was with frisk in hotland? mtt as more of a white knight and alphys as a reluctant antagonist) would be a super cool reveal since we know he exists in the dr universe. that might just be my mtt bias talking though lol
Hooo, that's actually a really great hypothesis ! Kris using the fountains to fix their relationships would be really interesting !
Also, about the Flower King Darkworld - Flowers could actually be a source of entertainment : In Undertale, we know that Chara is a "nerd" when it's come to flowers and gardening, which we know to be a passion they had in common with Asgore. And althought that was in Undertale, we know that while Toby sees the 2 games has different entities, he aknowledge Deltarune to be an experience directed to Undertale players, allowing us to make connections and comparaisons just like everyone does. My point being, since gardening was a passion that bounded Asgore and Chara in UT, and Kris being some sort of "fusion" of Chara and Frisk, could it be possible that gardening is also a source of entertainment for Kris. I can't think of anything in DT backing this up, but it would make sense in my opinion.
what a refreshing video!! its been a while since ive watched a good ol utdr character analysis vid and the fact that this combines that with speculation about future chapters is great honestly
there are so many little things shown to us about the relationship that i just kinda... forget about, so to see them pointed out plainly like this is awesome
what was especially fascinating to me was the point about toriel ignoring problems instead of confronting them and this potentially leading to some stunted developement within kris, i have never thought about any of the examples you gave and it was just so so interesting
great great video!!!
I feel like this doesn't JUST apply to their relationship, but also Deltarune as a whole. There's not enough info on ANYTHING with just 2 out of 7 chapters. Everybody's talking about who the knight is, what the vessel means, why Kris is able to take out their soul, but we're still so early in the game right now it's kinda unnecessary to do it. Toby is the kind of person to tease things early on and then have them be revealed much later in the game, yes, but I'm sure like- 3 things will return later on.
tbf im pretty sure people do that because we have to wait literal years for each chapter release and after a certain point, you start running out of things to talk about lol. but you are right. its easy to forget because its been so long but we are still very early into this game, we dont know shit right now.
Toby said chapter 3 isn't story heavy so I honestly am more intreged what is gonna happen in chapter 4 mostly.
While Toby says chapter 3 won't be story heavy, having more "unusual gameplay gimmics", also confirmed by the latest newsletter with Toby talking about them, I really feel that when he says it won't be story heavy, he means won't have much info on the knight/Gaster/Strange man etc.
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Because while it isn't HEAVY on story, it will still have it, mainly with all of the Dremmur family, with more backstory on Kris/Toriel etc, but it will still have small mentions of the important characters like the knight.
I think Chapter 3 will give some character development with Toriel and allow her to talk to Asgore about it without trying to brush it off
@@mysticalaces8623 I really feel like just chapter 2, it will depend on the route, in a pacifist, she would try to talk to Asgore and stuff, trying to listen to whatever his point is and having Asgore take more care of Kris and Asriel.
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In a neutral route like the one Berdly loses a arm, their relationship would stay the same as always, maybe a bit worse.
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While in weird route, I don't know what will happen in it, but if Toriel survives, I can already hear a slap on Asgore face
15:43 - Heeheehee that's me!
I definitely agree with your thoughts on why Kris made the dark fountain, those were my thoughts too!
I was going to say that I think the double door room at Flower King will not be a dark world, but rather have information on why Asgore was removed from the force, as well as the Dess case.
But then I realized... there's actually _two_ inaccessible rooms! There's the one with the double doors, and the one that can('t) be accessed from the building's side door.
At first I thought they were the same room, but the double-door room is on a different floor.
So... what the heck? Why are there two mysterious inaccessible rooms in Asgore's house? I don't even know what to make of this!
ooh that sounds cool! regarding /two/ inaccessible rooms, I think the reason the two locked doors seem to be on different floors is because asgore’s house just appears as a one-story building on the outside despite being two stories - hometown buildings are wonky like that - but who knows.
I swear if there's an HEAL ITEM that represents the FLOWERS well very asgory
Another banger Stuffed Alpaca video! I always love how frank and unbiased you are, using your logic and knowledge of the narrative and themes to make theories and cutting through fanon accepted falsehoods. I also appreciate the analysis of toriel and the comparison to ralsei!
another banger remy comment thank you🫶
6:29 The sheer dichotomy between our adventures in the dark world and the crushing reality of divorce is comical.
0:33 yep that part was certainly immersive 😅
Deltarune toriel seems to hate her version of Asgore way more where as in undertale it feels more like a deep disappointment that could be repaired one day
Can imply she's not immortal more proof Deltarune Monsters don't have magic
That would've been the case in Undertale if the circumstances aligned, because Asriel didn't die in Deltarune, so they're (probably) aging normally, as Boss Monsters, regarding "immortal."
I disagree. I think you flipped it. Undertale Toriel seems to strongly hate Asgore (which is where a lot of annoyance for his character stems from since she’s a hypocrite who disrupts multiple moments to hate on him). There’s also the fact she won’t forget or forgive him for the child killing, since she likely spent time with each kid who fell.
While Deltarune Toriel does seem to dislike him (trashing the flowers), it also is more amicable. Asgore’s attempts to try and fix things w/ Kris’ help could feel uncomfortable to her and she wasn’t a huge hater in the grocery store. She’s dismissive but it seems like she wants to get along somewhat for the kid’s sake.
i mean toriel straight up just calls him a "pathetic whelp" in undertale whereas in deltarune she just kinda awkwardly goes "oh ha ha look at the time, i must be off" every time he tries to talk to her so im not sure about that lol.
Gardening IS a form of escapism...
at least for me...
I am SO glad you’re of the belief that Kris probably made the newest fountain as a means to connect with their mom and solve the various domestic problems. That’s been my running theory since I first reached the end of chapter 2, and it’s so upsetting to me that no one else seems to think that way!
One of my biggest beefs with, “Kris is the Knight” or “Third entity” theories is that they’re both a massive discredit to Kris’ character by assuming they made the fountain for evil reasons or out of their own control. It’s not a trait that’s put out in the open, but Kris is characterized as very intelligent, charismatic, and a schemer. It takes a lot of forward thinking to pull the sort of pranks on Noelle that Kris is known to do, and the ACTs they preform with very little input from us beyond a single word are also a sign of intelligence. It’s entirely within the realm of possibilities that Kris enjoyed their time in Chapter 1 and 2, understood exactly what made them so great, listened to Queen explain how to make a fountain, and then decided that they wanted another one, this time including their mother.
Those were some really very interesting points about the calls! Also, I hope you get well soon! Anyway, great analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
19:05 Surprising. Chapter happens on a school day, but Kris's family used to go to service (church) on Sunday. So students also attend school on Saturday OR Rudy attends church on Saturday? I suppose the latter is reasonable.... But, still, it means "tomorrow" isn't the day Rudy, & thus, presumably, the rest of his family, is expecting to go to church.
20:00 I'm disappointed that I can't tell which.
thanks yeah I’m feeling better now than when I recorded the audio :) I guess if you can’t tell where my bias is then I was successful? (psst. toriel)
@@astuffedalpaca5365 Glad to hear it! (& thanks for clarifying!)
I really hope there will be a lot fo characters or darkners on CH3 being couples while Toriel saw them and starts being Jealous about it (also hope to see more about this toriel and her relation by the main bosses from the darkworld, also thinking of it bc i see two of them on the chapter, maybe)
Great analysis as always!! I hadn't considered some of what youve said and presented, but now that youve said them, it will haunt me forever /pos
1:37 Wether it’s real life or fiction people treat divorce like a one sided issue. I’m not surprised… I’m not above such a thing.
Doesn't Flower King have some comic books?
Yes, Alphys mentions giving them to Asgore
Stuffed Alpaca coming out with another BANGER analysis
I've absolutely been of the opinion that Kris is deliberately using the Dark Fountains as a tool to fix their life since just after Chapter 2 released, making them also narratively the strongest candidate for the Knight. Every single chapter has a had a strong narrative attachment to the people immediately surrounding Kris' life. Susie was a bully, but now is a good friend. Berdly was full of himself, but now has been humbled. Noelle was too timid and scared to stand up to others, but now she is stronger. But, given the fact that the Dreemurr family is so deeply attached to Noelle's, the exploration of Kris' family will most definitely begin to delve into the incident that led to her disappearance, first through Toriel's perspective (and will help with their relationship by helping Toriel to understand Kris, and to treat them mature enough to have a serious conversation about the divorce), next through Asgore, and finally through Asriel, finally addressing the disdain Kris seemingly has for him, and answering what happened to Dess from the perspective of the kids who were likely present when it happened.
I'm pretty sure Kris doesn't dislike Asriel
@@asdffdas254 dislike isn't the word I used, nor do I think it's appropriate. But, it's clear that Kris doesn't have a strong relationship with Asriel at the current point in the story, with Asriel having been gone for possibly years to university and not having shown much signs of keeping constant contact. Pair that with the obvious favoritism in their room, Kris' reluctance to talk about or associate with things to do with Asriel (ESPECIALLY in the player's presence), I'd be far more shocked if they DIDN'T have some sort of falling out than if they did.
@@GameJam230 Pretty sure they keep in touch, they message each other online all the time. Toby said on stream that Kris's room being barren wasn't an indication that their parents didn't love them (the kid gets drove to school and walked in with their hand held lol) so I don't think there's favoritism - I'm pretty sure Kris is just the type of kid that doesn't keep a lot of things (frankly they seem a bit depressed, i think they're on autopilot a lot of the time)
@@asdffdas254 Favoritism doesn't specifically need to come from the parents. There's a whole lot more society out there than one single household. I'm also going to need a source with regards to them "messaging each-other online all the time"
@@GameJam230 Eh, fair enough. As for the source, Alphys mentions it in Chapter 2 I think. "Did you stay up late again talking to Asriel online?"
IMO the superhero comics on top of the TV in flower king work quite well as a form of entertainment for a dark world to focus on. alphys lent them to him, and he seems to be attempting to cultivate a relationship* with her via gifting her flowers. i could see the theme being something like "if you cling to the past and your nostalgia forever your ability to build a new life will be greatly stunted in service of a past you can never return to" or something, with being a superhero representing being the head of the police force. it might overlap too much with the dreemurr family home chapter, though, so i could really go either way on it
*not sure if it's strictly platonic or whatever on asgore's end but alphys seems to want to interpret it as romantic at least, even if only playfully as in undertale. asgore probably just wants to be her friend because he's a nice guy
Honestly it will be very interesting if you will do every hidden/genocide route where then you run across the school hall and it suddenly becomes night time and then suddenly day time and the thing could repeat over and over, till we see -sans- just being disappointed and leaving this world with -his brother papyrus-
Fun fact, there is no proof they ever got divorced in undertale.
First off she never filed any divorce papers and she can’t still claim the title as queen so she can be divorced they’re only separated.
Even in Deltarune, it’s not confirmed a divorce Because toriel says “ dreemurr residence” and we know she hates and would rather not be called by it. So that would mean she’s required to say that
I was actually considering bringing up that they might not be technically divorced and possibly even on a “break” as troubled couples sometimes do but then the “eggs-husband” joke slapped me in the face
regarding ut, yeah I don’t think toriel would’ve bothered with a legal divorce process. asgore calls her his wife and when you spare him he talks about how he and toriel can take care of frisk as if he expects them to be a couple again. I don’t think he realized that wasn’t gonna happen until she called him a miserable creature…
the last name thing is interesting though because she does go by “ms toriel” at school but like so does alphys since it’d be strange to give them canon last names/maiden names when they didn’t have them in ut. divorced mothers sometimes keep their last names for convenience especially after a long marriage even if they’re not on good terms with their ex and “dreemurr residence” could just be because her kids are still dreemurrs but I do wonder how she feels about it
@@astuffedalpaca5365 yeah I get that but we know from undertale toriel doesn’t like using the name dreemurr since it’s asgore she tell frisk not to refer to her by that .
Also in the alarm clock Tori and Asgore are on very good terms so true Pacifist has them be back together seemingly
@@aresrivera9744 well they dont really talk, toriel only responds to him once. i feel like if they were back together toriel would've noticed asgore was all alone out there and would get him but she didnt notice he was gone and undyne had to be the one to get him (same with him being in ice where she didnt notice him as well)
@@mysticalaces8623 I don’t get what you’re saying?
0:37 did not need to be call out like that
Even though it is kind of a loophole that so much time passes before Undyne would arrive to their home, it just seems way too obvious she would be in chapter 3.
I am still convinced Kris knows something about the disappearance of Dess and it trying to convince people it has something to do with the dark world. Undyne specifically because of whatever that incident with Asgore was. As a way to kind of "prove" it had nothing to do with him or something?
Then again, I used to strongly believe this until Toby implied Chapter 3 would be light on the main story and more of a side event. Not sure if that was what he meant, but it seemed like it. That would imply even if two characters who would really have a lot to do with some major story beats were in said dark world, somehow nothing important was addressed? Who knows.
i saw someone on twitter suggest that asgore might be acting as a kind of superhero for hometown, based mostly on the presence of cape comics in his room and alphys saying "he's like a superhero." that could be another potential reason for asgore to show up in chapter 3.
also, as far as party member toriel goes, i think it's possible that we'll see a much different side of her in the dark world. we know from rudy (and the undertale alarm clock dialogue) that toriel is something of a party animal when not on mom duty, so perhaps she'll just interpret the dark world as a dream and cut loose completely there. especially given that the dark worlds have a trend of acting as wish fulfillment, i think it'd be a great way to explore this other side of her character, which we wouldn't otherwise get many opportunities to see in action.
I always thought the party animal side of her was something she used to be a lot more often in her youth. Then she met Asgore and after getting married and pregnant, she knew she had to put that part of her aside for the sake of her family.
Just wanted to bring up how there are flashes between some transitions, apparently only visible to me on a brighter monitory. Examples: 10:42 near the word "reflects", and then subsequently on the word "either"... I'm gonna move the window to a less bright monitor to have it be less visually jarring there.
one of my favourite deltarune enjoyers uploaded yippie!!!!
I think deltarune will conclude on sans and his brother will go to the undertale universe.
It is not just speculation, some texts are literally telling that there is someone from another world and sans and papyrus came out of nowhere so? Why not think sans and papyrus actually appeared out of nowhere.
9:46 I believe it’s a reference to Shadox’s video “KRIS IT’S FOUR IN THE MORNING”
I am SO HAPPY to find someone who agrees Asgore will likely be in Ch.3! I've thought this for ages and your the first person on youtube I've seen agree!
I think it would make sense that Asgore would be there, I just dont see how
Why is Asgore at Toriel's house late in the night? If the police sent him, does that mean they wasted precious time to wake up an ordinary citizen with no equipment or authority to handle a home invader? Asgore is no longer a cop so it's not his jurisdiction to handle these threats. If there was a home invader, wasting time like that would only risk the safety of the people being potentially robbed.
18:21 i mean, An Undertale themed Dark World would go hard, like maybe chapter 7 would be a distorted dark world version of Undertale's many Locations, like Snowdin, Ruins, etc. And it could've been created from OUR memories. No, not Kris's memories, OUR memories of Undertale, mixed with the dark world elements.
I wonder if we will see home videos incorporated into the dark world? DR Toriel seems like the type to document everything (having familt pictures everywhere) and the Dreemurr tapes were an important moment in the true lab in Undertale. If they are, its going to be a reallt gut wrenching scene
I’ve been looking for more great Deltarune videos so I’m happy I stumbled across this
i think in chapter 3 toriel will have to face these problems likely with the secret boss
you’re videos are actually so great holy
I already agreed with the thumbnail, but there were angles to this that i hadn't thought about. It's interesting.
I kinda like some of the ideas of the flowershop not being a dark world.
I'm of the opinion that Asgore won't be in chapter 3, if only because I hope we get a chapter in his flower shop, and meet him in the dark world there, as a later counterpart to Toriel being in this one earlier in the story.
Can you PLEASE do more Deltarune character analyses? 🙏🙏🙏 Every single one you made so far was a BANGER and they've kept me sane during the deltarune content drought
Great observations
Hmm, I see a kind of chiasm here:
Asriel: Highly favored by his mother to the point it's concerning, might have a rocky relationship with his dad.
Kris: Disfavored by Toriel and obviously not on best terms with her, but seems to be on good terms with Asgore.
your voice is perfect for these videos!!
18:23 I'd love to see how the characters in Deltarune would react in Undertale
The theory of kris bringing toriel to the dark world to fix things is interesting, but it raises the question: why does kris do this after a snowgrave play through?
11:23 He’s hurting himself by doing this. This turned that scene from funny to something that causes me immense pain.
3k very soon, i subed, hope you get famous some day
I love that gaster gif, i just laugh every time it comes up
the roasting at the beginning goes hard
The dark worlds so far have both been themed after forms of escapism, board games and the internet, and escapism can give people a safe space where they can confront their issues. Maybe Kris is thinking that by giving their parents the fantasy of the dark world they can finally be a happy family again.
In the same vein of the darkworld being made in the hopes of fixing people's problems, I still think about Undertale being a game developed in-universe by Asriel, inspired by real life stuff and in the hopes of helping Kris cope with what they were feeling.
The 20 dolars dissapearing faster then asgore out of the dreemers home the second cp.3 & 4 come out
fav channel video out i need my deltarune fix
also the fact that toriel still uses his last name.... i wonder how paperwork works in this world
I Bet There's Gonna Be Some Kind Of Dating Show For Toriel And Asgore To Get With Each Others Again! (Comment Before Watching Video)
My thought for the flower kingdom abandonment was that asgore himself is the abandoned one
Just a thought
congrats on the new mic mic everyone expect mike
1:14 correct because it's actually funny
Is curious that this video dropped out now, because this is something I have been thinking lately when I see people talking about the possibilities of chapter 03 regarding Toriel and Asgore.
I mean, Asgore, what did you do? Toriel, why are you so mad with Asgore? I mean, whatever happened with Dess couldn’t have been that bad for them to divorce since Rudy is not that mad to Asgore. But again, in Toriel’s case could be that was the last straw for her after many things. This is what I have thought so far but I am really intrigued about what happened this time xD
Yo i love this Channel. So excited for chapter 3🎉
Berdly video?
I will be there no matter what
I have a theory (not much proof but hear me out)
What if dess is in a dark world?, it makes sense cuz dess just "disappearing" makes less sense than her accidentally entering a dark world, especially since we don't have much proof of her dying or anything like that, and there are dark worlds that we don't know abt (the one in the library), and the reason sje can't get out is cuz there should be someone with a soul (kris) to seal the fountain and get out. Besides, the fact that the dreemurs are likely to be more involved in later chapters could be a sign that some information abt dess will be revealed.
But that's just a theory....A GAAMMEEEEE THEORYYYYY!!!
(Sorry for my bad english, I just woke up and I'm still half asleep lmao)
YAYYY NEW STUFFED ALPACA VIDEO!!!!!!!!
amazing video nao egokoro
i remember a few years ago seeing a theory about how in deltarune, determination referred to ones ability to create stories. its possible, then, that this might be building on that in some way. while we see characters grow as a result of their dark world adventures, none of said dark worlds were EXPLICITLY made by kris (and thats assuming the kris knight theory is real). the chapter 3 dark world, then, would provide a very blatant representation of this theme, showing how through kriss determination (artistic capabilities), they were able to create a work (dark world) that helped others grow in a positive manner
but also... this kind of begs the question of if that would even work. after all, of the characters that have grown, the only one we can really speak for is susie, and... im going to be honest i have no clue how much of a threat she ever was. there isnt really any mention of her bullying people outside of that one noelle blog post, and that seemed to imply that susie and kris were at least somewhat evenly matched, so while its undeniable that her experiences in chapter 1 helped her grow as a person, we really lack the capability to effectively gage how much people can or will grow from a dark world trip
it also could also tie in to another theory that deltarune is about escapism (idk where i saw this one, 4chan maybe??). this seems backed up by some of the post queen fight dialog, where the characters discuss how the dark world (metaphor for fiction, if we take this as legit) is "better" than the light (real) world, at least in some ways. if this is the case, i could just as well see kris failing in their plan, with chapter 3 being about how you shouldnt confuse reality with fiction or something. idk
[SPOILERS FOR OMORI] one time tobie tweeted something bout someone making a game (possibly omori) with a plot thats very similar to one hes making (probably deltarune) if he was talking about omori and deltarune there kris probably killed dess and covered it up
The theory that Kris distracted the police and is luring Asgore instead of the police is imo a *way* better theory than what I thought was the only possible reason they slashed the tires.
Undyne and Napstablook don't really have a narrative reason, or logical reason to be in Chapter 3. They have no major "overarching plot" going on unlike Asgore, Toriel, and Noelle and seem to mainly be there as comedic relief. And what are the police going to do about it? It just never made sense to me, but I thought that it was the only conclusion to why they slashed the tires. They have zero connection to the Dreemurr household at all, and like you said, the fact that they *never* came implies that they're busy with something.
Asgore, on the other hand, makes complete perfect sense to be there narratively and from Kris' perspective.
I'm going all in on this theory, it might not end up being true, but this makes the most sense to me, and makes way more sense than bringing in Undyne or Napstablook