SHIELD GATE HATE! (KnightmareFrame Reacts to Shield Gating is ruining WF)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มี.ค. 2023
- SHIELD GATE HATE! (KnightmareFrame Reacts to Shield Gating is ruining WF)
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Oriingal Video: • SHIELD GATING is Ruini...
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What's good folks?!
I'm here reacting and giving my 2cents on this topic!
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Recording Software: NVIDIA Share [Shadowplay] + OBS
Editing: Filmora 12
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What are your thoughts on this topic?
Shield gating shouldn't exist. It doesn't make sense and remove the reason for some core aspects of the game.
I guess more content to you mista, I see what you hae done here 🤣🤣
Never let em cook ever again.
i tryed one of your build time ago, with the shield gating. i'm sure you know what happened: i died, a lot. Shield gating is not a deadbrain strategy like the armor and hp, they are passive, but that strategy is active, you must move and know how to do it. And without shield gating a lot of warframe will be unplayable, istant killed. the only reason i don't play that stategy is because i'm a distract person and i don't pay attention on my hp bar, i'm not that skillful (but i want learn) and i don't have arcane energize, so i must use the mod hunter adrenaline or rage. So, Shield gating is a skilled based and must be in the game.
@@arthurrosa9403 It shouldn't exist in a world where the game is actually balanced and enemies don't one shot you after some time. If developers got to balance that part and solve the issue of health builds needing additional slots than shield gate ones to fit needed mods would agree with that statement. As things are now shield gating opens more build diversity and is an active playstyle, which is always welcome.
I love when ppl talk about warframe balance as if it has any, warframes will always be pseudo-invincible nukes, de nerfs and buffs things to switch up the metas so players buy/grind/lvl new gear, not so the game becomes more “balanced”
They definitely don't try to switch up the meta unless there is an obviously opressive option being abused. Meta generally onpy changes when newer mor power crept mechanics and added
@ISitOn MyArm tell that to the doomslayer
Anything in warframe can be done with any warframe though...
@ISitOn MyArm yet vault hunters has killed beings that were capable of destroying the dimension.... where's this feat for the frames?
@Brandan Insert Limbo who mathsed so hard he killed himself by accidentally collapsing a dimension on himself. Or Nova, with the potential to obliterate any form of matter by just existing. Or Nyz who is literally immortal and can control any consciousness around.
Shield gating is a great mechanic that rewards a highly focused and active play style, the problem isn't shield gating being too good, the problem is shield gating being the ONLY option unless you want to camp in a corner with certain abilities which is not gameplay. Fix enemy scaling, at least in the amount of damage they deal, and buff or rework how health and armor function. Shield gating should exist along side other viable forms of survivability, it should not be the ONLY form of survivability though.
ur right
That's exactly what I have said! Completely agreed.
Capping the damage output of mobs seems to be the way.
if spamming 1 is considered highly focused then sure it is
Being able to use any frame > using revenant for everything past 300
My issue with shield gating (as in builds that rely on shield gating specifically to stay alive) is that it's the only viable way to survive to high levels, outside of Vazarin. Both of which are hectic and spammy playstyles. I don't like that playstyle. If you do, have at it. I don't want them to remove it from the game. I don't want them to make the squishy frames unusable because they die all the time again. But give me something else. If shield gating/Vazarin spam helps you get to level cap, cool. I don't really want to spend half a day in a single mission anyway. But when one option gets you to 9999 and the other option starts to feel worse by 250 and significantly worse at 300-400 levels, that's not cool.
did you watch the video? his aint defending shield gating, he just accept DE changes and points out correction.
My thoughts? It's a mechanic that was intended to prevent oneshots, not chese endurance. I will never use it, it's annoying imho.
Eh. It feels like Knightframe is just completely missing the point; I don't agree with the OP of the original video, or Azn, or anyone. I think it's a complicated issue - but all Knightmare's doing here is displaying exactly the kind of negative behaviour that the OP is worried about fundamentally: toxic - borderline elitist and myopic - powercreep. I don't care about the health vs shield tank war. I just want fundamental balance.
Yeah the damage scaling curve is just too high after a few hundred levels and without some built in invulnerability or damage reduction there is only shield gating for survival. It's likely DE are fine with certain frames needing this option for endurance as it's only a small portion of the game and they need some variety in base kits.
he is displaying the behaviour that is right: people dont know how good they have it rn. you could get oneshot before de added shield gating, because the enemies fked you up. people think its too easy now but cry if its removed.
When i heard "I liked the Eximus rework" all credibility was lost. He only sees the game from a 2k hour 10000 plat mods player who is borred of the game. Yes you like the eximus rework, because with literal max gear thats the only thing that you actually see alive. But what you dont understand at most 10% of the community is at that level of power creep that you are. How is it ok for my max content builds from 3 years ago to die to lvl 40 blaze or toxin eximuses. Literally once you get overguard down they dissapear, yet overguard is like the great wall of china. Where is the overguard for warframes? (yes i know rhino skin is similar to overguard, in that it doesnt care about status effects).
@@zDemoGODz what don't you like about the new eximus units? I don't mind them now. Keep you on your toes. I wondered what the f was going on when my abilities weren't doing 💩 to some enemies after I got back to the game a few months ago. Then I realized they were a treasure trove of grind gold that always dropped energy orbs and pumped out XP at what... Quadruple the rate? Add an XP boost of any kind, naramon, and stealth kill one with a melee weapon for 60k affinity in one hit.
@@zDemoGODz What? Veteran players liking the eximus rework is not the norm, it's an exception. Most veterans complain about the eximus rework for whatever reason. Eximus units shouldn't be a problem unless you're running level cap or something.
The problem isn't that shield gating exists, it's the fact that it is the only viable option for playing from a point on. Which brings us to the real problem of the game, number blobbing.
Shield gating may be a good feature, but I feel like the incentive to run a dragon key is what ruins it.
The keys are meant to be debuffs in exchange of rare mods, not just another mendatory thing to have eqipped if you want to be "meta"
You seem to be mixing up terms here.
"Shield gate" = the brief invulnerability you get when your shields break.
"Shield gating" = running a build designed to repeatedly proc shield gates in order to be permanently invulnerable.
Everyone has a shield gate. (except no-shielders) Not every build is shield gating.
The video is not complaining about the shield gate mechanic. It is complaining specifically about the shield gating strategy/playstyle.
Even that is really a solution, not a problem. The problem is many frames having no other way to survive past some point. And even tank frames get oneshot if you go high enough in enemy lvl. All that "fixing" gating would accomplish is lower build diversity. Even if you can make the case that it makes tanks redundant, there are fewer tanks than there are builds that wouldn't function at all without gating. Either gating must stay, or the game needs another look at its fundamentals before getting rid of it.
@@Ayzev Of course the game needs rebalancing to accomodate this! I agree with you, and the guy in the original video said exactly that.
The people arguing against shield gating aren't saying that the game will be perfect if that tactic stops being viable; they are saying that shield gating is a duct tape solution to underlying broken mechanics.
@Ayzev it would accomplish lower build diversity? da fk are you smoking? its literally the opposite, shield gating takes out all diversity in warframe when every single build you will ever find in the game has mods specifically for shield gating
@@UryuCifer Have you considered how many of those builds wouldn't function at all if you had to instead build for tankiness? How many of them gating has enabled?
Gating requires Respite, Rolling Guard, Maybe Augurs which you have the option of outsourcing to your secondary. That's it.
Tanking requires health/Quick Thinking, armor, Adaptation, healing and unless you're not going beyond SP star chart levels, an ability that gives you dmg reduction or buffs your tanking in some other way.
Removing gating wouldn't increase the amount of tank builds. It would just remove builds that require the extra mod slots that gating frees up, and enables innately squishy frames to function at all.
If what you want is a total revamp of how enemy dmg and Tenno survivability work, one that would lower the excessive disparity between tanky and squishy frames and make surviving possible without either cheese or just raising some numbers high enough, then I agree that it would be ideal. Though, personally, DE's track record doesn't really have me wishing that they take that shot. I do not expect them to handle it properly.
Tbh it's a complicated topic. Since if you take away shield gating, most frames survivability is completely taken away. Some frames do have survivability abilities or passives, but frames that don't will get a decrease in playtime. The solution is to completely rework the whole damage, shield, health, and armor system; it isn't ideal for DE to spend that amount of time on that considering they've already reworked armor as a whole. Imo what they should do is to rework companions where most companions if not all don't get one shotted, and become an integral part of a players survivability. If they succeed in doing so, players will try to invest and possibly explore different nuances within the companion system.
You mean like how tanker frames get basically no play time right now because they balanced the game around this shitty mechanic?
@Tom Walker Shield gating gives a bunch of survivability to squishy frames sure, but it also needs you to be on point af. Any form of DoT or health based damage will melt you, and if you miss your window to regen shields *at all*, you die.
Wisp is literally top 2 most popular frames in game, with Rhino, Nezha, Citrine, Revenant all being *very* popular and all being more generic tank frames. Hell, Nyx, Revenant and Trinity still have the best survival in the game, with none of them needing shield gating at all (Trin just caps out on DR)
@@scarybubblegum5100 Except they DO abuse gating past a certain point. Once you break level 300-400 or so on steel path endless is where the issue begins. It's also just downright silly as a mechanic when you just have a save your ass button with 5 at any point you need with any frame you use.
Shield gating just makes the game too forgiving. It's already mindless enough. At literally any point you COULD have died... you can just nope out to your operator and f off somewhere.
It just leads to a gameplay loop of zero risk. If you need 1.3 seconds to hit your 5 key... something is wrong.
@Tom Walker My guy, no getting randomly one shot as an invised Octavia or a Mesa just because that Pyro Eximus decided to burn down that area *is not* "too forgiving", that's just quality of life. People have figured out to game the system sure, does it mean *every* frame can do it? No? As Knightmare mentioned, soon as you start putting any amount of efficiency on your build, ya gonna have to spec *super* hard into shield gating meaningfully at all. Not to mention, again, while its a lil safety net for some tanker frames, Rhino certainly isn't gonna be shield gating very much with 6 mil HP. Hell, as much as Trinity *can* game shield gating very well, is it a particularly effective way to play her? Barely. Much better to triple stack DR so you can run around level cap taking 1 damage from any shot cuz 99.9% DR. And she is certainly not the only frame where its just plainly more optimal to go full DR over tryna game shield gating. Far less effort.
Honestly... Warframe Stopped being a Team Game a long time ago. The Desire for Team Synergies is a dream and fantasy. Frames thanks to Helminth can be anything to do anything on their own without needing Team mates.
I say change Helminth instead of SG because it trivializes the game.
I disagree. Somewhat. I think you can still find cool combo and frame synergies with frames by way of clan mates or friends. But for solo players, Helminth enables us to take our frames into places we normally might not. For myself, I have absolutely zero interest in leveling frames and chasing mastery outside of the frames already leveled. But that also makes farming or certain missions more difficult than they otherwise might be when choosing the “proper” frame for a scenario. Helminth gives a degree of flexibility and creativity so I don’t feel so punished for playing solo and having something be ultra inefficient.
Just my two cents.
@@coleharris1945 I can respect that opinion. And your not wrong. But with the direction warframe has been moving in the last few years, more Solo only Quests, players doing their own things and the like it just feels more and more like people team up more out of necessity then actual desire to do so.
I don't know...maybe it's just my view on things but for a Squad Oriented Game, it feels like Noone wants to work together unless they have to and only very specific set up like Profit taker or Eidolons (Which frankly People are being more efficient Solo Now that really...1 Volt does everything they once needed a Team to do)
the Banshee mains when they see this video: 🧍🏻♂️
No one mains banshee
@@Vaz_G me
@@alfredusindominus1296 you dont exist
@@Vaz_G not main but more like second main... And no, I don't use shield gating but gloom + arcane eruption
@@Vaz_G i dio
Shield gating isn’t even broken like people say. You cannot simply slap brief respite on and become invincible. Shield gating is not good on it’s own which is why you need something like crowd control and rolling guard to help it out. Otherwise you’d just end up spamming abilities until you run out of energy and die anyways.
And I find it so funny when people say shield gating is brain dead and removes any challenge or fun from the game... it doesn’t. But the reason that’s funny is because that’s literally what health tanking is for. You health tank because you don’t want to think about how you’ll survive, you just passively do it. Shield gating requires a much more engaging and active playstyle to survive and brings that risk factor to your gameplay. You have to play better and manage your energy and abilities more effectively to stay alive.
Didnt even let him cook then claim you did and blame him for stuff he didnt even say. smh
Pretty disingenuous pointing at shield gating definition, as opposed to the meta term of shield gating referring specifically to cheesing the ability. You interrupted the first video so often just latching onto keywords you hear him say and go on an unrelated rant, then unpause it just long enough to hear one more word out of context and go on another unrelated rant. Strawmanned him the whole time gd.
The ability to cheese shield gating shouldn't exist, or should be more difficult to use, change the dragon key from nerfing amount of total shields to something that nerfs shield replenishment. This meta is dumb AF, and making Warframe a single player game. it does give the middle finger to anyone who wants to play support frames and do co-op stuff. I dont even bother checking your builds anymore because i can tell without seeing the video it's just gonna say "use brief respite and rolling guard." Or even just have shield gating as is for solo play.
I agree. This reaction is a joke. Knight, you take this so personaly that you can even listen to arguments. Shield gating as way to dont die in one hit is good. I think it will be better if shields has even two gates. At the 50% and at 0%. But not immortality triger. And maybe with some cooldown. But shield gate meta is just exploit. You use an item which exist for completly diferent purpose and use him to abuse game mechanics.
I bet you can't sheild gate very effectively. It's by far the most skillful thing in warframe. It's fun and allows more build verity. Just stick to nezah and rhino if you can't manage steel path without them and stop crying
@Sandro de Vega de disagrees with you. Its not an exploit it's an intended interaction. The very fact you think shield gating makes you immortal proves your haven't done it
if u guys want to react to something someone say, u cant let the person speak for 20 minutes, and then start asking questions. You will forget most of the arguments you could say. Both Parties need to speak for small amount of time so they clear things for each other. If he didnt stop the video and didnt explain, he wouldnt make any point in the end of the video. He listened to the video but the guy doesnt make sense. He wants a warframe to be in a perfect state, which is difficult or impossible to accomplish. If devs balance the game, it will becom eboring over time. Thats why games are unbalanced, to make them more enjoying with every change that is being made. If you had one update and that update lasted 10 years, no one would be playing the game, unbalancing this is important to keep the gamers interested in new tactics
When Shield Gating became a thing, it made way more frames viable for endurance grinding, and as a result encouraged players to experiment with a wider variety of frames than they normally would and be less inclined to stick with the meta, that in itself made the game more enjoyable and less repetitious.
Build diversity exists because of this mechanic. removing/nerfing it only makes the player usage on most frames lower.
Getting one shot before shield gating was the most annoying thing I experienced in wf
Shield gating as a mechanic was necessary, but the fact that you can abuse this mechanic to be immortal is what is wrong. Squishy warframes should have some way to survive steelpath (not as easily has tank frames) other than abusing shieldgate or zooming around playing the floor is lava while shooting your Bramma because any weapon that needs aim is too risky. And as long as this remains this way DE won't make any changes to these warframes nor balance the damage in the game. There are so many warframes I'd like to play but unfortunately they rely on shieldgating for surviving steelpath. For me shieldgating abuse is an annoying way to play this game and also it makes no sense that squishy warframes can turn immortal just by this, it ruins the way these warframes were ment to be played.
I don't mean they should remove shieldgating, there are people who like that playstyle, but at least DE should give every warframe a way to be played at endgame level without exploiting an unintentional mechanic or at least address the scaling problem this game has had for a while.
The fact you think sheild gating makes you immortal proves you haven't tried it. It leaves you vulnerable to toxin damage, leave you dead if you have no energy leaves you dead if you react in less than 1.3 seconds. Its not free immortality, it's like balancing on a tight rope
@@jamesn0va You can literally just use an arcane to become immune to toxin, I keep seeing the same thing thrown out but not a single person looks at this
@@lGhostWolfel Not to mention an extremely tiny minority of enemies use toxin proces. But just ignore the guy, I've seen him in a few of the replies and he just attacks people's character instead of trying to actually discuss the issue.
@@lGhostWolfel Then it literally forces a build no one wants to do. I'd rather use that slot for something else than an arcane that makes me immune to toxin which are mostly situational. I'm on the fence with this shield gate nerf take. I solo SP most of the time and I find shield gating necessary to some frames. I'm just sick of playing tank frames on SP since it gets boring in the long run. besides, using the shield gating mechanic is a more challenging playstyle specially on frames that doesn't have invisibility or DR mechanics.
@@klemen680 Eh, if you're on an infested tileset then most of the time toxin is an issue, aside from the fact that there are enemies that can 100% drain energy in those tilesets which completely negates the shield gating playstyle since you can't cast abilities with 0 energy = no BR+augur procs.
I think the confusion is that they think shield gating is the act of exploiting the mechanic. Which is wrong. Shield Gating refers to gating the damage intake from one consecutive dump, to chopping it up into two instances, one to health, and one to shield, and like the mane said. Its to mitigate one shots.
I have nothing against shield gating but I see a reliance on it which is a glaring issue with the game's inability to balance anything properly. DE seems to just leave things as is. they have a "the community isn't burning us on a cross right now so it's fine" attitude about balancing. My best example is limbo and the new Maximus. He is so hard to play right now and as a limbo main it is very frustrating to see this happen to my main we all know that if a meta frame like Revenant or Wisp got hit like he did we would all be burning DE on a cross, but its limbo, nobody cares, so nothing happens. Its a problem and needs to change.
"Shield Gating is too OP! Nerft it!"
Me with Wisp having infinitely invisibility passsive, adaptation, ~98% damage reduction, blind enemies, 2-3k HP, ~1k Armor, rolling guard, unairu's last gasp+madurai's void strike and her 2nd skill 3s invulnerability no cooldown: *sweating intensifies
wisp main here, all i can say is yes
Never let this man cook ever again.
bro the eximus changes are the best thing ever, since it also buffed your "opposite fraction Specters" to have Eximus shields which makes them more tanky overall
No more 0 energy due to a hidden energy leech eximus
Specters are fun and underrated, some days ago i went in a sp survival on Mot, and me and my friends equip all the kinds of specters and made a eximus army, at that point all we had to do was sit back and watch as the specters did all the work lol
@@DaviAvila1357 yeah ikr, thats the best thing but i find it stupid that the Warframe Specters are all 4 accounted as "one" type instead for each Tier
Wow so cool, make them more tank and annoying to kill, awsome, ruining the flow of the gameplay, you're crazy.
@@felipez3115 yea imagine making hard enemies actually hard and adding some challenge to the game, this guy probally plays genshin and think hillichurs are too hard to kill, go play stardew valley if you dont want to be challenged
PvE game. Do what you want. Discussion over.
pve game where most characters get immediately one shot without this specific mechanic thats makes you immortal so you therefore cannot do what you want. discussion far from over.
"PvE game. Do what you want, besides having fun. Discussion over."
Fixed it
@@mykeh3155 much better lmao
@@valerieee1469 every frame is capable of doing base steel path without brief respite or augur mods. If you choose to do level cap that is your own choice where not everything should be viable anyway. You can literally do steel path in your operator if you wanted to. If DE made health tanking at level cap a thing it would just force them to make a higher level activity and the cycle repeats. Steel path was supposed to be the hard content but now it's easy due to power creep and level cap is seen as the hard content and it's entirely optional as the rewards are only marginally better than regular steel path.
@@dippydingleduck this is the kind of cognitive dissonance that makes me hate the wf community sometimes. i dare you to put on a frame with 0 shield gate restore and try to do a kuva survival. better yet, no primed mods because most people dont have them. but see how far you get even with the primed mods and then come back and tell me that. and not once did i mention level cap. level 200 enemies will 1 bang you without sheild gate and will shred through even the tankiest health tanks in the game in seconds if you dont nuke them immediately.
It's quite pedantic of you to say "brief respite doesn't let you shield gate, all characters with shields have a shield gate". When people say "brief respite lets you shield gate", what they obviously mean is brief respite allows you to rely _on_ shield gating as a long-term survival strategy by allowing you to do it repeatedly.
yes that's true. 1st know the term and mechanic. brief respite is not shield gating and doesn't give you shield gating. that's the main point i'm trying to relay. it only refreshes your shields. it's one of the many tools used to renew your shields for a new shield gate -- and is not shield gating. It is part of shield gating "builds" aka builds relying on refreshing shields. Many people think if you equip the mod you get shield gating and I SEE THAT A LOT IN THE COMMENTS.
Brief respite alone is not responsible for maximum shield on ability cast and won't fully regen your shields unless your shield pool itself is low.
I don't hate it, but I also don't like knowing I sigh every time I need to play with shield gating, else I'm gonna make things harder for myself in SP, etc.
"Play your own way.... but you're playing wrong if you're not shield gating. " It's that in which I don't like.
shield gating is needed, and abusing it is just another option of surviving, like you mentioned. it isnt needed everywhere, and it takes a certain playstyle to make it work. i like it being a part of the game!
Feel like shield gating is necessary evil at this point. Overall the game has just been scaled to the moon and shield gating is just a way for non-health tanking frames to keep up survivability wise.
evil? back then you only go ivara invisible and stay on the spot forever, revenant didnt exist yet to move around. Rhino was abit meh
the first thing you said here completely proves his point. sheild gating was needed yes but it was a complete band aid fix to their terrible scaling and survivability and they havent done anything else about it
IMO, I really don't think DE intended to allow players to reach level cap in the first place.
@@johnP0908 its not even an opinion, it is a fact.
I like how this man legit thinks he knows more than everyone else in warframe, props to him for his confidence despite clearly being wrong all the time
The kind of confidence that makes a mf comment twice in a row on the same video like a boomer on Adderall.
Interesting and you are?
I can see his wrong like exaggerate certain warframe to be useful on lvl 9999 but it just useful NOT meta. At the same time, the original video opinion succs for thinking "shield gating is the only option", which is not and wanting to bring back camping or shoot and cover playstyle that is only viable for few frames.
@@ejuss4216 for 9999 shield-gating is 95% of strat you're tripping bruh
shield gating is not really a problem if you aren't in a 9999 mind set
the problem is that 9999ing is the only fun thing after players farmed enough
Let shield gating alone, DE must buff or rework health tanking mechanics, tanking mods, etc... Having many options for players makes the game fun to play and that's why 10yrs up until now many players still love to play wf cuz it gives us players many options on how we play the game that fits our different play style.
P.s I'm not a fan of shield gating cuz it's skill issue 😅😂
Ill say it this way.... WHO THE HELL CARES if shield gating exists or doesn't. There is no competitive aspect to this game. It doesnt add or subtract from the game for like 90% of players. You dont get anything from staying in a match for a stupendous amount of time to get to 9k level cap and frankly doing so is ungodly boring. Done it several times and have nothing to show for it except more materials, etc. By the time you have the equipment to do such runs, you already have bagillions of said materials. People just need to bitch about something. I would love to hear a legitimate reason its ruinging Warframe... a free to play, PVE GAME.
Nerfing frames, leaving them untouched, and not buffing them is what caused this in the first place. Yes, every frame shouldn’t need shield gating to survive content, but DE has shown they’re too lazy to buff frames properly. Support frames like wisp, citrine, etc help, but nerfing mods and abilities is not the way to fix this. So tired of the nerf party screaming and defending nerfs, when all those do is distract from A. Better/newer content fitting the state of the game B. The underlying problem why certain frames don’t function well. E.G Yareli.
The Waverider quest is clearly the worst thing in Warframe
Bros complaining about one shot protection on a game where if the enemy breathes in your direction the wrong way you die 💀
a mechanic where you either immediately explode when walking into a room or become essentially immortal is so unhealthy. building to tank with average damage or deal big damage with a smaller but still useable survivability is a much healthier system
The problem that needs to be addressed is why is there only one fucking frame that is built to survive innately (revenant) while the rest have to rely on cheap tricks like this, it's insanely goofy for my yareli slapped with a band aid aura mod to be way tankier than inaros with 2000 armor, and not to forgot relying on shield gating just isn't fun.
@@kenny3179 It's actually funny that Yareli just needs proper DPS for pistols to deal enough damage on level cap since her 2 with Natural talent or amber archon shards literally fixes her survivability issue. I've tried using her on SP and that augment mod makes Yareli tanky as hell.
I know the guy's points werent very well presented, but how can u just miss every single one of them? Or at least thats what I got from it in the frist 25 minutes.
He presented synergy n teamwork to talk abt how frames or weapons can work together to achieve something, but then threw it away, the synergy n teamwork was just an lead up to him talking abt shieldgating. The point was, synergy, teamwork, frame variety means nothing, when every frame can achieve the same immortality, w the same build, no matter their kit. You talk abt health, armor, adaptation mod, yea, and thats what he said as well, he said on frames designed to be tanky, those mods help, but on frames who r squishy, u can slap 8 health mods n they will still be squishy, now what abt shieldgate? Health, armor, n adaptation is a perfect presentation of synergy, tank mods on a tank frame helps more than tank mods on a squishy DPS frame, but shieldgating can just throw synergy out the window, because any frame can use it. You literally proved his point......
Didnt bother watching the rest of the thing, maybe it got better, but god damn it was so annoying to see points fly over someone's head for 25 minutes.
I feel like Warframe isnt a game for teamwork its a game for PVE. It doesnt follows the traditional MMO rules: tank, DPS and healer. it follows it loosely but it still comes down to 1 vs many. Knightmare was right when he said about warframe abilities working together to the benifit of one. the shield gating mechanic is just a way for us to play the game with more freedom with loadouts. plus new players like me wouldve dropped warframe as soon as the builds become too typical e.g. youll need armor and health on all the frames just to survive.
exactly.
Still convinced level 9999 doesn't exist and Knightmareframe just uses fancy editing overlays for enemy levels. Only Inaros, maybe even Hydroid, could even reach close to surviving that level of enemies.
level 9999 is real and evey one can do it today
I hope youre really joking about that
Yeah mate, Hydroid has so much shield even with decaying dragon key equipped that he don't need to shield gate. So broken. Nerf this warframe and give him a another trailer when he gets reworked because he's so broken. 4 with 100% extra loot chance and dealing true damage fucking broken man with the augment. Nerf him, please oh my goodness Nerf him. Can even hide in his puddle and heal himself to survive forever and clear status with his 2 damn broken. Even when De nerfed corrosive and indirectly nerfed his 1's augment he still so broken goddamn.
I'm enjoying these react videos of late, would definitely watch more of them
This guy has a solid point but is communicating it poorly and providing an extreme countermeasure. The issue is shield-gate abuse, not just shield-gating in general. The easiest solution is just to make the decaying key prevent you from reaching full shields/overshields even if your shields are at max, thus preventing the 1.3 second gate. The Decaying key is the biggest problem when it comes to shield-gate abuse since it's an active buff to the player. By removing the 1.3 second gate when it's equipped, the problem is solved and now you don't have to worry about people abusing the system anymore.
There are other systems like this in the game that need addressing in a similar way, but shield gating is pretty egregious and arguably the most prevalent one. Upwards of 90% of frames can tank by shield-gate abuse and it's gotten to the point where it makes the game boring to play. When you can press a single button and get 100%+ of your shields back, thus making you practically immortal, there is definitely an issue. While I do think systems like armor and health need to be buffed, DR is genuinely not something that falls off as hard many people say (especially when many sources stack multiplicatively), and I also don't feel that level cap should be included in discussions about how the main/Steel Path game loop should feel. The highest levels I usually see is only up to about level 1000 when doing Steel Path fissure/Conjunction Survival endurance after around 2 hours, and I alternate between Lavos and Citrine on the regular (with the occasional Revenant or Grendel). Lavos particularly is not only unable to abuse shield-gating, but also is the closest to a health/armor tank in the game excluding Inaros. I at no point ever struggle with survival, and while the shield gate is nice to have, I honestly don't think it makes all that much difference when playing reasonable endurance missions. Level cap is an exception, and the game should not be balanced around it.
Agreed
I'm somewhat new to modern warframe (old player returning after years), and all the people talking about how you should be running Shield gating because it is the best way to play up until level cap, blows my mind. I'm not planning to stay in a mission for so long that only very specific setups are viable. Getting into Steel Path for the first time was rough, and had me rethinking how I played. But I do not believe shield gating is entirely necessary for it. Just play in a group and all the survival issues tend to disappear.
Why should I make a build designed to be played against enemies that are level 9999, when the highest I am going to see in normal play is 200 at most. I'm just going with what's fun, and that doesn't include shield gating.
when i realized he's been rambling for 30mins and the video he's watching is only at 9mins i just clicked on the original video XD my god the way these creators stretch content is insane
its just a part from a stream lmao
The guy was right about energy to shield conversion with dragon key, you basically use ability to gain shields, hence you gain the shieldgate. There was nothing wrong, he didn't say that you don't get shieldgate without it.
I felt like you just were trying to be smart there.
I personally have nothing againtst the shieldgate... and you personally! I like your content, keep it up man!
I agree
People in chat were going along with “it seems he doesn’t understand shield gating”
It’s perfectly fine to talk about brief respite giving shield gates because that’s exactly what it goes as a consequence of shield generation
It's a good-bad bandaid for a game that clearly needs an overhaul in many mechanics but will not happen any time soon.
Am i the only one that doesnt have a problem with shieldgating itself, just the "unofficial", "exploit" feel the mechanic has? DE should make it actually an official mechanic, instead of a quick mention in a dev stream 2 years ago. Remove the need to equip a dragon key, which is annoying, and was also designed for something completely different, idk give us shieldgating arcanes which minimise shields and also maybe buff the duration of the shieldgate, or the restoration of shields or something. but this weird way of having to equip this stupid thing and then using those specific mods and nothing else feels so unproffessional. like the devs have no control over their own game.
Ironically the simple solution is to actually massively buff some mechanics than give shields, like brief respite and augur mods, so the dragon key isn't a requirement for high base shield frames.
That said, it does suck and redirection is basically useless in a SP build ( apart from hildryn or harrow).
The lack of level cap enemy scaling being properly implemented only allows shield gating. Devs need to add actually scaling damage mitigation
I don't usually abuse shield-gating and I don't feel it ruins warframe. I mean, you can chill at SP for an hour or so and don't need to abuse it at all. That's basically 99% of your gameplay experience.
If some people want to "abuse it" all the time even when I don't feel like I need it I don't get why come to the conclusion it ruins my game.
Wow knightmare oficially made it if he has bots on his channel lol.
The misunderstanding here is is that no one is speaking about shieldgating being an “mod/ability” or something bad. What people see as bad and treat as a “mod/ability” is the fact that every meta build looks like “aura+augur+key” so if the new player looks for build it is hell of a hard job to find something different if we talk about steel path builds…
I lately been updating builds on all frames to be SP viable and my aim was to avoid relying on gating, and I think I done all frames at this point. But in most cases I had to make my own builds or just use some of the ideas behind builds on TH-cam because like 7/10 builds are copy pasted shieldgating builds.
In my opinion the fix for the problem here is just either changing the debuff of dragon keys to something else or make them only debuff the user on missions with vaults. But better just remove all keys from the game because they have so little purpose (if we do not count shield gating in 90%of builds) the only reason I use these keys is riven unveiling and mod farming for my newbie friends. I do not think we need to nerf gating as a mechanic itself but to nerf the meta mods+key we see in all builds just a little, while buffing the frame specific survivability options (either e passives or skills) because at this moment a lot of frames have their identity lost since building them became so heavily focused on shield gating that you do not care about their kit any more it is manly a “skin” that holds your weapon of choice and spams any ability at a certain rate (as soon as they are dropped) to refresh shield gating.
Looking back a little I think I do not blame shield gating as a mechanic that caused its own popularity, I think eximus rework is the main contributor to the rise of gating popularity since after it got implemented a big number of survivability mechanics just became obsolete.
Finally smart person
If there's an option to like your comment multiple times, I would.
Based on the first 10 mins of this vid so far i dont think knightmare gets it. Shield gating to stop one shots is fine. Shield gating as a sole way to survive is stupid. And i thinks thats the guys point
You literally cant have one without the other. Just to reiterate: Shield gating is a mechanic introduced into warframe to make it so that so long as your shields are up, you cannot be one shot by the super accurate enemies in the game. It does this by making your warframe invulnerable to damage for a bit when your shields are zeroed and cannot happen a second time until your shields are recharged.
This is inherently a good fix to counter high level enemies and their ability to hit you no matter what because of how the ai aims (they don't, its line of sight based with a percent chance to simply not hit you. They are more likely to hit you than miss, and it has nothing to do with and stuff).
If you WANT this system, if you agree its good and needed in current warframe, you also have to agree its not something we can have without it being possible to abuse... which can be said of basically every mechanic in warframe.
The only possible fix is a top down restructuring of the entire combat system in warframe. Armor, shielding, damage, enemy aim, warframe stats, hitboxes, s.... it all would need a total restructuring. This absolutely without fail will result in heaps of techincal debt in a game thats already drowning in technical debt (technical debt referring to the problems that come from iterating on the same software, which results in having to patch patches to overcome issues in compatibility which results in having systems to correct systems and each system can break when you add new systems). Which, unfortunately, is too expensive to consider for a game that's 10 years old. At this point, you would be much better off making an entirely new game... or just patching over the problems with systems that work with the overall game at large and move on.
@@ThreeGoddesses I definitely feel that the video has a point, but it's the wrong kind of point I'd argue.
Shieldgating being something you can use to survive better and even really push into it being your main survivability is fine IF you so choose. But right now there is no choice. Some warframes that HAVE to abuse it or else they're fecked, and the community just going 'eh this is fine' isn't a healthy for current or future warframe design. Like, seriously, you got a ton of ways to make bruiser style warframes tankier and make some tanky warframes absolutely immortal for 99% of content, but what the heck does someone like Gyre or Banshee have?
Adaptation won't work, vitality or redirection won't work, gloom doesn't really work on her since it cancels her 3, CC doesn't work well enough since some tilesets will have enemies doing thousands of damage from 80 meters away, rolling guard helps but isn't constantly active, gear items are disabled in some content- all she can do is shieldgate like a complete madwoman or do some odd, odd invisibility trickery.
Shieldgating becomes a problem when some frames are either forced to abuse it to absolute hell and back, or just drop dead in 3 seconds. Which becomes so, so much more apparent in the Steel Path Circut where you can't rely on companions or weapon synergies to carry your fragile teapot arse. For me, someone that doesn't enjoy the shieldgate playstyle, some warframes are just banned for me from steel path and I don't have any really fun alternative or at least none I've found yet. And I would absolutely love some kinda mod, helminth, arcane, or *something* that would let me use some of these porcelain frames, because Gyre in non steel path is currently my favorite frame. She's incredibly fun when you aren't being obliderated by a single lancer, and people saying 'just shieldgate bro' doesn't help.
but some frame just bad at survive
@@oblivion8997 There's a difference between 'bad at surviving' and 'die in 2 seconds unless you abuse shieldgate'.
@@ThreeGoddesses absolutely not. Shield gating could have an internal CD and it'd solve the issue of being spammed.
If Rolling Guard had no CD people would rightfully think it's complete BS, BR+Augur+Key is essentially a CDless rolling guard with extra step but somehow you think it's fine.
KF: we are listening.
video: ...if this wasn't Warframe you'd be right. But this is Warframe. Remember the d-
KF: (pauses the video) what do you mean "if this wasn't warframe"? I don't understand. (4 minutes of talking around).
Man, you could just simply listen to what the video is saying.
47:34 didn't know knightmareframe was a dance instructor
The shield gating mechanic is fine. It's great in fact. The problem is that so many of the other forms of defense (excluding pure DR) makes it very difficult for Warframes to survive. Health/Armor stacking becomes only valuable once you hit certain thresholds and while shield gating only takes few mod slots, for most Warframes EHP stacking takes many or most slots, and some Warframes can never achieve it.
I love how you, Knightmare Frame, everytime someone mentions the mods commonly used to refresh shield gating while just saying it in shorthand everytime decide to keep repeating that its a passive, but the one time you talked about shield gating you mentioned using the mods to refresh it. All you did dofferent was add the 4 words the original video you are commenting on did not because when talking about shield gating to the playerbase most know that those mods are used to properly take advantage of the mechanic.
I've seen garbage like that in quite a few games, people copy and paste the most "OP/Meta" builds and complain about difficulty lvls being too low. Play the frames you like, builds that suite your play style. Don't adjust your playstyle to play"the most OP whatever" I'm enjoying your content a lot, you explain thing very well that I didn't know and that is greatly appreciated especially since I stopped playing almost 2yrs ago and just got back into it a couple of weeks ago to see almost overwhelming changes. Play your games and have fun with them all!!
we need shield gate. if you think "when you make a build for shield gating, you get immortal bla bla" well, you have shield gate anyway, you just sacrifice other mods for that.
2.5 sec shield gate when u subsume pillage ... so having a problem with brief respite and augers is jus wasting air😂😂😂😂
He’s right, way back it seemed like enemies could literally smell you while invis.
Remember the time where Bombard can oneshot frames from miles away. During the sniper-bombard era, shield gate were introduced to counter that. But people abuse it, including me.
'level cap isn't a challenge anymore'
Nah, it hasn't been a challenge since shortly before the meme alerts which started out at level 9999 :P fun times. Fatal teleport covert lethality anyone? ;)
I will say i dont miss dying to a napalm blast from half a room away or a bombard rocket that locked on between invisibility casts because i was spotted for half a second and it followed me across the map. I don't miss stamina. I don't miss 'parkour' 1.0 which is to say, no parkour and bugger all mobility.
I do miss OG naramon but thats because it was OP as shit even now with infinite invis frames, having absolutely any frame invis 100% of the time was mad. My OG ogris is still my most used weapon even after about 6 years since the last time i used it... Although 2000 hours later. The good times were still bad times compared to now. I LOVE the madness you can achieve now and the diversity of play style.
melee 3.0 did change a lot of stances animation orders and basicaly trashed like 4 of my favorite weapons with stance changes alone making them do the "same thing" but in a diffrent order so they have no flow. But also wasnt 3.0 the update that destroyed the zenistar to being the worst heavy blade.
the thing that ruined warframe for me was the ammo changes and get less ammo per pick ups and now it ruined the game
Shield gating is fantastic, it enables all frames to do ultra high level content if you're willing to have that active of a playstyle.
That being said I detest using it myself and just bust out Revenant or a stealth frame if I'm going to go beyond level 1500 or so.
But my personal dislike of the playstyle doesn't mean it's bad or should be nerfed, survival mods still work and do their thing and I feel like anyone saying that survival mods are ineffective are either using just 1-2 mods instead of the full 3-6 compliment of them and expect it to work as well as shield gating.
If anything DE should buff shield gating based on their design motivation being "we want players to interact with the game more" to further incentivize the highly active playstyle that comes with it.
I also think its funny people complain about the state of the game at enemy levels that are completely unreasonable for anyone unless its for stress testing. There is no gameplay reason to go that far other than u just want to
Most of the people that complain about shield gating hardly go past 20 min survivals. Also on lower levels like that you’ll be 100% fine with just adaptation and gloom.
I don't build for shield gating, but I understand that it's just a mechanic now, and it is a good one. But this dude talking about Voruna makes him sound like a dolt. I run a negative STR max DUR Voruna with a little range, slap on status immunity passive, and I play SP. Not only that, but I roll with a fucking Kubrow just because she can, lol. Can I die? Yeah, but it's not impossible not to.
If you ask me, I think the biggest issue right now is the energy economy. I'm so tired of having arcane energize on every fucking build, man. And now, so many frames have orb drop abilities it's like "why?" Just buff energy orbs and drops and start us with full energy already.
One shots sucks too, but energy affects every single player. One shots really don't unless you're doing higher level stuff.
Also, bro, stop making me miss Zenistar more than I already do 😂
Shield gate is a lazy band aid. If they were to get of their asses and balance enemy damage properly, it wouldn't be required. But I guess it's to much to ask, considering the game is riddled with bugs
As someone who really enjoyed borderlands 2 i was alright with it tbh
Veteran here, rank legendary 2.
Shield gating opened up a lot more playstyles for all warframes, before gating Rhino with iron skin was the only way a newb would survive high level missions, and for seasoned players the only way to survive was with warframes that had innate high armor and hp + regen or healing to avoid getting one shot.
Warframes that relied only on their shields were severely underplayed, now frames like volt, mag and banshee can pull up to high level content and bring their very valuable utility. My first frame was Mag, so it felt good to be able to bring her along to high level missions once again.
i would like to know the numbers of ppl that even bother with gating. it cannot be high. the game is so easily broken. plus going to the levels needed to justify using gating doesnt yield another more then normal.
going to level cap or even enemy levels that would force you to shield gate, doesnt even give rewards scaling appropriately... usually its same shit that i would get if i had just done base star chart stuff for a couple more minutes than usual
The vast majority of players never bother reaching level cap because there is no reason to do so for them. People want to feel strong and kill a bunch of stuff quickly. Most people don't want to spend several hours in 1 mission... it's not like they are getting anything amazing as a reward. Same goes for me. Doing a lot more stuff IRL I just don't have the energy or care to do "endgame" content... I just wanna chill out and play a game.
@@samuelchvojka7815 the longest ive gone as ig a "casual" was like an hour and a half? And it was just to farm kuva and SE
"The game is too easy" "They need to make a harder mode for veterans" During the whole mission you are invincible, what difficulty do you want? Yes, when they add it there will be no difference?
Getting stat-checked to death or failing to stat-check the enemy isn't difficulty. Warframe's lack of challenge is an issue with its very fundamentals.
@@AyzevThat’s why Duviri and the New War’s Drifter segment were both frowned upon as being moderately to too difficult.
That’s insane cause citrine is super easy to use for me , three diff build, Xatas whisper, shooting gallery, and ensnare
I don't get why people care. How are they disadvantaged by a way another player is playing the game? Is it really that much of a horror that you have a teammate that needs less reviving? Oh no! The squishy frames now become more playable in more scenarios and now they're making more kills then I do! This can't be, you should only be allowed to play the game exactly the way I play it and anything else deserves an insta-ban!
Look, if it was PVP, this would have been a deadbrainer. But PVE? Really, who cares? :-|
Facts
For shieldgating you still need to keep up with energy economy, for some builds arcane energize or eqilibrium is mandatory.
In other words: constant panic while searching for energy orbs in order to activate abilities so you can survive. That ain't playing, definately not an enjoyable routine, its pure chaos. Decaying Dragon Keys are not for me.
The Big problem with shield gating, health tanking, armor scaling and all that begun back when they added modding to the game.
They made all damage, health and everything scale with a percentage increase, so small changes become huge multipliers.
Had they instead added flat bonuses, it would make all the numbers smaller and scaling more linear, instead of the exponential growth they have now.
However, that was a desition that was made so long ago, and is so deeply entwined with the game that it is actually impossible to change in the game.
I do however hope the crew over at Soul Frame have learned this lesson and make a more future proof leveling system.
Warframe is the type of game where you get a empty box full of legoblocks and you build your own adventure. If people wanna do the most extreme content where people get to level 9999 and need to press specific buttons with specific timings to survive, let them do it.
There are 2 defensive options;
- Health armour builds scales for like 99% of the game but is practically put mods on and forget about anything survival related.
- Brief respite shield gating works for 100% but asks active gameplay.
I personally hate the gameplay loop of shieldgating and rarely use it. There have been more games in history where unintended interactions or bugs became valuable parts of the game like GunZ the Duel. I dont mind if people wanna sweat their asses off to pull off some insane stuff. Just let people play the way they wanna play. We really need to stop fueling 'problems' that are not problems.
the game was barely designed to scale to sorties when they first came out.
also eximus changes are fine overguard is garbage though.
it says CC is useless on the hardest enemies you'll encounter in a mission so abandon crowd control warframes entirely since you'll only be controlling the enemies that get sneezed away by a sentinel's verglas and just abuse damage like you should have been doing anyways. The best crowd control is simply using instant death on everything within 50meters, which is a pretty exclusive crowd control, not every warframe has a variation of that one lol. It's probably like 20%~ the rest are just people's pretend mains, and video fodder. :')
So, the cool thing about the eximus changes is that I can still cast instant death on all of them within 60meters but I can't you know... slow them down with Nova? lol I can't freeze them with Frost? I'm shocked that shit tier warframes didn't benefit from these changes... but I can blind them with Wisp still oh and Mesa's still great at crowd controlling them with Muzzle Flash, Octavia's supreme crowd control still works, so the warframes that can cast instant death on everything within 50meters can also still enjoy having their abilities work on eximus units... And Pablo still has a job...?
FACTS
Mesa's muzzle flash radial blind works but not Excal's radial blind. Garuda's 1 can't be used to pounce on an enemy with overguard just to get her shield, but Voruna can pounce with her 2, instantly apply a ton of status, heavy attack with a scythe/2H nikana for massive bleed DoTs, and nuke everything nearby.
I've been playing for over 10 years and overguard is legit the only thing they've ever done that i feel ruins the game. And it's only because of the inconsistency
Negating the entire field of "defensive stats" in favor of abusing an imbalanced mechanic is awful game design. Turning HP pools into a boolean is a bad idea.
The argument boils down to he wants squad based gameplay to be mandatory. Thus, a complete rework would be mandatory. He just needs to find a new game. The entire game will never be reworked.
He’s not angry at shield gating, he’s angry that game is the way it is. Removing Shield gating won’t solve the issue, it’ll just make the game un fun.
I think you right on him finding a new game...he has hated every meta we forced to do
I think this guy needs to see the number of times I turn off too many brain cells while playing Warframe and still die when shieldgating exists. It’s not literal immortality. It is abusable but still take 1 brain cell to do which is a lot.
If they're claiming it to be a boring gameplay then shield gating is probably the least boring gameplay in Warframe.
Exhibit A: Revenant with Mesmer skin.
10 minutes in and... oh god. Saying that shield gating is good because devs cant balance the game and that its actually fine because toxin damage will one-shot you. Or that Brief Respite and Augur set mods don't give you shield gate, because it gives you shield, is some marketing level thinking. You should go work for Blizzard. Since you have to think on another wave length to say that (Same as diablo immortal and the "You cant buy player power directly" because first you need to buy their premium currency and then buy player power). Maiming strike was hated because it pushed melee to one playstyle (it also didn't help that it was extreamly rare [at the time]), other playstyles existed but they couldn't match the damage output of it. And after that what can we say about shield gating? Becuase the game is so unbalanced there are only two ways to play high level content, either get some form of immunity or be invisible... and what would happen if these two playstyles get removed or heavily nerfed? No more high level content... Also tell a new player that in order to be more tanky, they have to lower their shield as much as possible...
TL;DR: Game is unbalanced and Shield gating is a duct tape holding the game toggether.
30:57, the shield has to be maxed out to shield gating. But I agree health tanking need a buff, shield gating is high risk high reward system, if u don't kill enough enemy, you don't have enough energy to shield gate, no shield gate = you die, and u have to pay attention more to the game to click the button, shield gating is fine on its own, health tanking needs a buff.
Whaaa you don't need enemy density to benefit from shield gating any ability cast that consumes energy with BR + Augur procs it.
@@IDirtyMangoIBut in order to trigger the augur mods and BR, you need to cast an ability, and usually low efficiency builds yields lower amounts of shields restored since it scales with energy cost(dragon key could help, but it completely depends on how high or low the efficiency is), so normal to negative efficiency is ideal for it to proc. that's the point. that's why shield gating is mostly used on SP because there's more enemy density which also means more chance for energy orbs to drop.
He’s talking bout old Warframe like when we had raids . We had to use certain frames for synergy and different things. Now it’s just pick whoever and watever and kill shit . Same for endurance runs . Whole point is to kill fast
NGL, I want an actual team play at some missions. not just kill stuff, I mean killing stuff in a horde shooter is fun, but at least have some frames pick up an actual role in team play. like tank frames aggroing enemies to protect the other frames. we've all been DPS'ing this whole time. maybe it's time to look into a rpg mechanic most games use.
You really need to watch these videos in full before doing these reactions. You constantly stop to "refute" his claims by bringing up the things he talks about 5 minutes later. For example you say without shield gating you would need to buff health, armor and other forms of survivability, but that is exactly the changes he called for when saying enemies need 4x less damage. When he said most warframes use shield gating mods, you point out vazarin and all the warframes that don't, yet he mentions all the outliers in the very next segment. Making comments like "should we tell him" when later it is clear he knows about it just makes you look like a fool.
Secondly, you spend way too much time on semantics. Yes, like most people in the community, when he says "shield gating" in reference to survivability mechanics, he means shield gate refreshing. He never once says we need to remove the shield gate mechanic. later on he even mentions that warframe abilities that trigger the shield gate refresh are also fine. He says at the start of the video that he dislikes the auger set and brief respite mods... How can you possibly confuse that with him saying the mechanic of shield gating is the problem? He is clearly talking about shield gate refreshing, and you stopping every time he uses "shield gating" to refer to specifically "shield gate refreshing using mods" is just braindead. Most of our community uses the terms interchangeably, so you are the one too stupid to understand basic knowledge, not him. You do the same thing when he calls frames with damage reduction bruiser frames. Maybe you don't like the term, but it is just a categorization... to throw out his entire point based on not liking the name shows how little you were paying attention.
I feel like this dude just looked at the videos title and made a subconscious decision that the person was wrong from the start. The title was kinda clickbaity for sure, but even having watched he went all in without taking time to genuinely think about what the guy was saying. It was so frustrating to hear him go on about how brief respite doesn't give you shield gating when it was so completely obvious what the guy meant. Shield gating is obviously not the problem it's people lowering their overall Shields to maximize how long they're covered by shield gating.
so true
Never used shield gating myself, I just run sevagoth with his gloom at max power, alongside his epitaph. Everything turns into an art gallery.
Ah yes, the player who loves walking and taking damage during press e instead of avoid the damage, very big brain move. U are so pro
@@rizalkesatu4357 Not taking damage, if they don't move. I fail to see your issue with my build choices. Or are you so elitist that any build besides your own is trash?
@@rizalkesatu4357 mocking players with their playstyle doesn't help the argument that shield gating should stay. I mean I highly doubt they'll remove this mechanic anyway. but still, making other players understand that the mechanic is necessary on some builds is the ideal approach of making them understand why nerfing shield gating does not help the playerbase.(unless they have a solution for it, which the original video doesn't have)
Just curious, with a gara build that stacks 1.5mil per cast, at what level would outscaling the enemies become impossible/impractible? Or would surviving become the problem sooner?
Melee 3.0 gutted a ton of weapons and stances. So all it did was slightly nerf meta weapons, but absolutely destroyed a ton of others.
As for shield gating, I partially agree with him. I never liked how "tank" frames are the least tanky frames, while shield gating allows squishy frames to be tanks. Tank frames should be inaros, Valkyr, chroma, nidus, Oberon, atlas, etc etc. Yet, frames like mag, volt, and many others are far tankier. Shield gating is great for stopping one shots, but it should have never made you tankier than real tanks.
The point of the augur mods and decay key is that with those, a ton of frames have no issue whatsoever with refreshing shield gate. So all the "squishy" Warframes are no longer squishy.
Shield gate has to stay due to the current state of the game. But it should have never been so strong that it completely eclipses DR, hp, armor, and healing.
Also, going to have to hard disagree with you on losing shields. "You lose shields, that's it!" No... That's why you have augur mods and decay. You lose shields? You press an ability, now you have full shield gate. Hp? You lose half your hp on someone like inaros, nidus, or chroma, you can't just instantly regain all of it.
The only thing that should be done, if anything, to shield gate is nerfing the effectiveness of shield gating without removing the 1 shot protection. Make decay key remove all shields. This would keep the one shot protection, but not make it so easy to completely eclipse real tanks.
For EHP tanks, the only way for them to ever have a chance of keeping up with current shield gate is by also giving them 1 shot protection that is even easier than shield gate to refresh. EHP is simply not an option for endurance runs. Oh you have 10 million EHP? Well the enemy still easily shreds you. Even frames that have high potential EHP are better off relying on shield gate for endurance runs because EHP is 100% worthless if the enemy can still one shot you.
For health they should copy borderlands with health gate
I think there might be some confusion around terminology here. Yes, every frame with a shield has shield gating as a passive. However, that doesn't mean that every frame can reliably use shield gating as a form of survival. You need a way to reliably reset your shields in order to take advantage of it.
So while yes, some people might equate the two, when people ask 'how can you shield gate with x', they can actually mean 'how can you reliably reset your shields to use shield gating as your main form of survival without x'. Language is flexible this way.
So when people say that Hildryn is a 'shield gating warframe' they mean that she's 'good at shield gating', not that she 'can shield gate at all'. However, I still get confused and wonder how you plan on reliably resetting your shield gate on a frame that can't cast abilities without shields. Perhaps there is a way and I'm just a noob, but I've yet to hear an explanation on how this works. Granted, she can just never run out of shields in the first place by spamming pillage, but this isn't shield gating, this is just straight up shield tanking that functions pretty much the same as a health tank with some form of heal.
Tbh I like what your saying if said person is asking the question it's still up to that person to Elaborate on what their Question is if they don't they just end up looking like an idiot regardless but you make a good point
At the beginning, you seem to be stuck on his use of the term 'shield gate'. Yes it is the act of triggering invincibility by dropping shields. But the average player uses the term to reference the abuse of this mechanic. The repeated recharging and triggering of shield gates is what they refer to as shield gating. They arnt using it wrong, or misunderstanding what shield gating is. They are just applying it a bit more broadly than DE intended. Likely because DE probably never intended for shield gating to be abused this way. But now it's a feature, not a bug. Lol.
fixing this ''feature'' would require them to actually work....
@@marcosg9472 Nah it could be fixed with a simple "You can only trigger Shield Gate once every (x) amount of seconds." To prevent the looping of invincibility.
@@Zeppathy true. but that is just a nerf or as i call it....half assed fix. and we know how much our fellow tenno like nerfs dont we? actual work would be to revaluate and rework the entire health/damage system in order to include more mechanics and allow warframes to survive using other tactics, abilities other than shield gating. it would be a whole mess redoing it all. i have no idea really
im just resigned at this point lolol
"Shield gating is a mechanic!" x 30
The dude is obviously talking about spammable shieldgate to negate allmost all damage. Like why are we being so obtuse?
Instead of listening to the vid and thinking about it we took an hour and 10 minutes to say absolutely nothing. (and i love the idea of balancing SG by making health/armor as op as SG, clearly a generational thinker)
He's huffing straight copium over a non-issue, and is practically demanding a feature be removed because **he** doesn't like it. He's a pretentious, whingy twat who deserves the mockery
or or hear me out here,it's a fucking PvE game,the existence of shieldgating will not effect you in anyway possible,no one's gaining a competitive edge over someone else because of this mechanic so making a retarded video highlighting the points which most of the community knows about and proceeding to demand the deletion of a mechanic(that he does not need to use if he doesn't want to,seriously I don't understand the bitching about this) because he hates it is pretty fucking stupid.He deserves all the hate he gets and I hope he never recovers from this.
to accommodate those complains, DE have to change the whole game system
playing for a long time and makes the endgame build of it, then complain?? what should beginners use to hold out?
32:07 in that time i feel boring hell in online play
One thing is for sure: the complaining features do not produce AFK users, unlikely Wukong
But this dude is completely right - the shieldgating mechanic and its abuse completely destroys the need for other mechanics, such as overshields and damage reduction, which in turn hits the cooperative component of the game a lot - why have a tank or support in the team if you can do any frame immortal, not just a couple specialized in survival. You yourself described the old endurance run strategy, which, although boring, required co-op, and now co-op is not needed at all, which is rather strange for a co-op action game. The helminth system does the same - why do you need a sevagot in a party if you can attach his gloom to any frame.
Yes, you're right, one-shots are frustrating, but shieldgate in its current incarnation is no less a problem. And yes, just changing a couple of numbers won't fix it, because the warframe is a garbage dump of bad design and mechanics, it's easier to make a new game than trying to fix at least something here without breaking something else.
to be fair, sevagot should provide more to the party than just gloom. needs a buff.
I mean shield gating is mainly for freeing up mod space and going to higher lvls
Unless youre going past level 450 shieldgating abuse shouldnt mean shit to you, its just another option
I dont think gating ruins warframe I just feels like its a lazy fix to a larger problem and that is that....ehp is still meaningless on MOST frames. I mean you have ALL these abilities that can heal but then everything past a certain lvl can one shot certain frames making healing abilities almost pointless.
Well if u are not plan for do lvl cap, or just do quick mission. Dont use shield gathing, as simple as that. So healing skill and armor in warframe still usable 🫤
@rizal kesatu saying health in general should be allowed to be pointless at higher lvl content is a really poor argument
@@giggitygooquag so u saying that shield gathing is like walking and taking damage? No skill require to do that? No need reaction, awarness and reflex to do shield gathing?
@rizal kesatu no I'm saying just like a bandaid augment it's a lazy fix to a larger problem.
But ofc the guy that adds shield gating in every single one of his builds is gonna advocate for it 😂
I think he wants it to be like it was in the old days. Where people had to use synergy of 4 people to do long endurance runs. Now one Warframe with a operator can do all for rolls even better.
Skill issue really other builds work just as well without shield gating some frames become funner being able to survive
I agree it’s boring when every endgame build is almost defaulted to repeatedly shield gating. But that’s just at arbitrarily high endgames. If you don’t like that then just don’t run it and you can still enjoy the entirety of the game that was built to not require absurd damage resistance.
Exactly, and I doubt the majority of players level cap anyway. and if they do, they don't do it solo.
which is worst? having option to have many warframe that can shield gate from a one shot enemy OR having only few, (literally one digit) of warframe that can survive high level enemy that can oneshot health including shield. Yea i can see why shield gate is need since warframe brings lvl 100 bounty to survive certain high damage.
9:46 thats not the point, the point is that those things enable shield gating to be abused, not that they ARE shield gating, wtf
bruh that zenistar, corrosive pox armor strip camping strat is iconic
The reason i hate it is it seems like such a finicky, annoying, and un fun way to survive.
My takeaway from this is that warframe is a weird game. Early game we're pretty much invinsible and pushing late steel path we have to become the cheese to avoid dying, we basically go from not having to think about who/what we're fighting to looking for ways that allow us to ignore enemies and avoid interacting with them at all, shield gating, adaptation, invulnerability, invisibility, etc. The game itself would have to be rebuilt from the ground up and combat be made more interactive, because the way things are right now we just do everything in our power not to actively deal with whichever enemy is in front of us, but rather preemptively do stuff that makes it so we just don't die no matter what.
Also, the reason why everyone talks about the band-aid that is shield gating as if it was a "mod" is because unless you're playing a frame that can refresh their shield gating with abilities, then you need mods to do it, and using dragon key+brief respite/augur mods is definitely cheese and not something DE planed, they just left it in because we literally NEED it to survive at really high levels.