It’s a rule now, nassif(I think) got blown out by a dryad arbor that was placed with his opponents lands and so now you have to but dryad arbor with creatures instead of lands now. At least in tournament play.
@@danielfrazier5586 It's definitely a rule violation to put Dryad Arbor with your lands. It's one of the most famous cases of both "things you didn't know were against the rules" and "you won't believe why this rule exists" that people throw around. TL;DR: Somebody put a Dryad Arbor with their lands to hide that they had a creature and won an important game as a result. The rules were changed to prevent information hiding from becoming meta.
The rules regarding Game Layout (MTR 4.7) only apply to games played at Competitive and Professional Rules Enforcement Level. But because the scenarios seem like casual games between friends I think it's safe to assume that they are supposed to be judged at Regular REL and therefore the Dryad Arbor placement didn't violated any rules.
Big fan of the playing out of the game before we hit a "rules violation". It's a lot easier to understand than trying to explain a big complicated board state. Also, it is a lot more fun!
I always love this "puzzle" approach to the game maybe the channel could make some videos on puzzles like those on magic duels of the planeswalkers(a pre-set complex game state, you need to win or not die in one turn)
@@CardmarketMagic I have one that might be 50/50 on how its ruled, winning due to attempt of casting an illegal spell, but you end the game before you pay the costs.
There's a website called Possibility Storm where they used to put out weekly challenges like that, so you can keep yourself occupied while waiting fore new videos from the MKM team :)
If you're dipping into commander and want some tricky rule situations: * Face down commander dealing commander damage (it's similar to to the Elk situation, but can still be a good fake out) * Whether you are entitled to know that a commander (such as Akroma) played face down from a player's hand is a commander * Getting non-commanders into the command zone via a mutate stack/meld and Leadership Vacuum Mutate also has some fun stuff, such as: * Populating off of a mutate stack where the token is on top * Mutate stack with a Theros God that's not on top and you lose sufficient devotion to make it a creature (you get a permanent with no type) * Mutating on top of a Planeswalker while it's temporarily a creature, then going down to 0 loyalty on it (it does not die and it can't be attacked) * Mutate stack where one of the component creatures has undying/persist and the stack dies (they all come back to the battlefield but as individual creatures with the appropriate counter) * A mutate stack getting turned face down (e.g. by Ixidron) * A mutate stack getting turned face down and one of the component creatures in the stack has morph and you activate that EDIT: One more for good measure: * Turning a face down creature face up (such as via morph) is a special action, so it does not use the stack and cannot be responded to. This means that you can counter a Krosan Grip by turning Voidmage Apprentice face up
Planeswalkers have a bunch of fun interactions as well: Suppose you have Oath of Teferi on the battlefield and Grand Master of Flowers has 7 loyalty counters and is thus a creature. You can only activate its loyalty ability once (because it's no longer a planeswalker). Then there's also Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God using Tibalt's ability to exile a card off each player's library, you can't play those cards. (No emblem, or if you do have one then it doesn't refer to Nicol Bolas) Tibalt, Cosmic Imposter becomes a creature with Kaldra Compleat equipped to him (via Sarkhan or something) and is blocked by an indestructible creature. The creature is exiled by Tibalt's ability (that was granted by Kaldra), but you're unable to play that creature from exile despite the emblem. (Linked abilities)
@@YoshiFawful64 I'm confident it'd work wherever it is, since the mutate stack is treated as a single creature on the battlefield and therefore just has the morph ability. Pretty funky interaction!
Was surprised when the title said 3 rules but the video was 20 mins. Was pleasantly surprised. The absolute better way to see wrong rules, especially the misdirection.
3 for 3, though the Thalia/Double Major/Parallel lives almost got me. I do think that a good one of a similar nature would involve the combo of Pir, Doubling Season, and a + loyalty effect of a PW. Pir turns the COST of putting loyalty on a PW into an EFFECT, which would mean Doubling Season will let you double the loyalty gain. Could be either as a false judge call thing to cause a trip-up, or as the correct answer.
These types of videos are so fun to watch. I tried to solve them too and play along with you which makes them even more fun. I don't know anything about commander so I just watched the last part but the other ones were very interesting. At 12:51 which I think was the most difficult to find and explain, I think the best way to explain it is that Parallel lives cares about effects that say "Create x tokens" Double Major does not create a token as an effect. What is does is copy a creature spell so parallel lives doesn't recognize it as a token creating effect. The fact that you eventually end up with a token is a consequence of making the copy but the spell itself (Double Major) is not a token creating effect per se, so parallel lives will not "see" it.
It's so weird because it feels like a case where reading the card is misleading. Because Parallel Lives says "whenever an effect would PUT a token onto the battlefield...", and I mean, you are *putting* a token onto the battlefield. The very specific thing here is that it's not an *effect* putting a token onto the battlefield, but as they say, creating it on the stack, and then it just enters the battlefield *not because of an effect* but because it is a spell all of its own that is resolving. Typing this out was actually what made it finally click for me what they meant. You're a great rubber ducky, Vardaris.
@@Svefngengill That's not exactly the reason. I mean, you kind of get the idea of what happens, but sometimes those minute details can change a world, like in this specific example. Double Major does, in fact, have *an effect* that creates a copy of a permanent spell, but it _doesn't create a token,_ as @Vardaris mentioned before (neither on the stack nor anywhere else, the game rules simply turn the copy into a token, see CR 111.11). The resolving copy of a permanent spell _becomes_ a token as it enters the battlefield. The card just has old wording, so it can get players confused. This is why I actually loved playing MTG via Cockatrice -- you can easily check the Oracle text (always check the Oracle text!) by simply hovering over the card and clear out any confusion.
If you do another of these, there should be at least one scenario where the rules violation happens in the first few turns, otherwise it becomes a bit formulaic and easy to predict.
This was a really fun way to format the video. For some tricky rules stuff there's always the interaction between Opalescence and Humility depending on the order they come into play.
I love that this is presented as a full game playing out - it genuinely feels like I’m getting better at understanding the deeper mechanical interactions of the game more by following along this way. This does lead me to ask as an open ended question: does becoming a judge make one better at Magic? I would think yes.
It leads you to far better understand the different interactions of the game and how you can use your cards. I qould definitely say it makes you better at magic :) but it's also not easy!
Being a judge does not inherently make you a better player. There were many suboptimal, but technically legal plays in the games presented here. However, there are definitely times when knowing you can Willbender a spell with split second, or use mana from an Urza's Saga on the main phase you sacrifice it, or things like that, let you get an edge over your opponents. In general, there are diminishing returns, where, for each new rule you learn, it pays off less and less. Once you've got the basics, you'll get better faster through understanding principles of good deck construction, strategy, threat assessment, etc. than you will through mastering the very rare little quirks of the game rules that basically never come up except through thought experiments by people trying to break the game.
As a computer science graduate and software engineer who's almost never played magic, my favorite part of watching the game is the stack. I genuinely don't find it confusing at all. I love videos like this that show case some interesting aspects of resolving down a stack.
Minor, but important correction: Spells do have effects, but it wasn't the kind of effect that triggers Parallel Lives. However this example did make it more clear to me how copied permanent spells and the subsequently created tokens are handled. More of this please!
@@Radenshaal Because Captain's Call has an effect that says that you "create tokens". On the other hand, referring to rule "111.12. A copy of a permanent spell becomes a token as it resolves. The token has the characteristics of the spell that became that token. The token is not “created” for the purposes of any replacement effects or triggered abilities that refer to creating a token." So even if your doubling enchantment doesn't care if it was an effect (like Primal Vigor instead of Parallel Lives), Double Major would still only make one copy enter the battlefield.
This is always a good way to check on rules. I see similar things happening at my LGS and i walk away from these knowing just a bit more and can reference why it doesnt work!
I love the editing on this video. I would just recommend presenting the stack more like MTGA does to better see what's going on with that first Double Major. And ya got me with the Thalia! I thought it would double that token.
This is a fantastic addition and follow-up to the previous video. The lead-up really helps to contextualize the rules more and the rules chosen this time are a little more tricky and fun to look into. Definitely enjoyed this a lot!
I really like that you guys covered stolen commanders because i've been trying to figure that out myself too and i could'nt even with the comprehensive rules
Commander damaged is linked to the commander itself.... So if someone stole your commander and did 21 point of combat damage with it you would lose to your own comander
Can I just say- Carl, I love your outfits. I think if you wanted to do an interesting off-topic or perhaps april fools day video it would be fun to see you show off some of your favorite clothes and talk about where you got them from.
This format for the show is SO much better than before. This was so much fun, and informative! I almost got got with the parallel lives interaction with Thalia myself. Please continue doing this show like this!
Another good one would be Sylvan Library + Abundance. You can choose for each of the 3 draws if land or nonland and can keep them without paying life, as they were not "drawn", so they dont count for the Library Trigger to pay
Sylvan Library + Abundance is Normal difficulty. Sylvan Library + Chains of Mephistopheles is more like proper Hard difficulty. But Sylvan Library + Chains + Library of Leng is where the _real_ fun begins
I like playing out a full game to see several potential rules violations like you did hear. Most the rules probably wouldn’t warrant a full video on their own but by bringing it altogether it was a lot more interesting.
If you ever do another episode, I'd love to see some tricky morph stuff! For example, you can protect your creatures with gift of doom without giving your opponents priority to respond in any way, also making it an unreactable death touch combat trick when blocking (provided there are no triggered abilities from cards like secret plans). Double sided cards can exist on the battlefield face down but only if they enter the battlefield face down: they cannot be turned face down once they're on the battlefield, not even by stuff like ixidron. Yedora can return manifested instants/sorceries as face down forests upon their death, even though they're no longer creatures in the graveyard. Also works with other stuff, like lands that have been made into creatures. A card turned face down with yedora can be turned face up with morph despite it having lost all abilities, while a morphed creature on the field with an ability removing enchantment attached - like Kenrith's transformation - cannot be turned face up this way. Forgetting to show your face down cards to the opponent at the end of the game is a rules infraction, since it is necessary to prove you didn't cheat by morphing cards without morph. All morphed creatures must be distinguishable in some form, like having them in the order of them entering the battlefield on the board. You also cannot freely change the order or placement of morphed creatures on the field for this reason. As a bonus, Sefris of the hidden ways not triggering from a boardwipe since its ability is not a death trigger but a creature entering the graveyard trigger could make for a nice scenario
here's a tricky interaction. on the field is Toren, fist of angels who has a ability that creates a 1/1 human with training when you cast a creature spell. I play Kyler, Sigardian Emissary who get a +1/+1 counter when a human enter the field. due to it being a cast trigger Kyler wouldn't see the human the Toren create and just won't gain a +1/+1 counter, but you could say it does within the context of the next Rules Violation video. and due to the fact that both are new cards this might slip up Thoralf anyway, I like this video and hope you make more in the future
Very cool, more of this. And as other mention, and you agree on, it would be cool to see you solve magic puzzle board states. And do a “pause the video now, if you want to compete with us” before starting each puzzle.
the dualcaster mage combo works, but you have to play double major first then in response play the dualcaster, which enters while double major is still on the stack and can then copy it
Double Major would then need another target to copy as well, so that still stops it from being a two card combo. I should still probably run it in my Temur Magecraft deck, though. Nothing like infinite triggers!
Great expansion of the original idea! I love the simulated games, whether they start from scratch or midgame. Playing a few scripted turns with some difficult and quickly overlooked interactions is a very nice and welcome Addition. I really like that and would love to see more of this. :)
I dont know if its too much but having actually two players doing all the steps and the "judge" trying to spot when they do something wrong feels like an interesting way to do this
I love this series, I really hope you guys keep doing it. If I could make a suggestion, I'd say look at draw replacement effects like Underrealm Lich combined with cards like Sylvan Library. Oh, and have each player play a draw replacement effect to bring layers into it!
Very cool format about MtG rulings. It's very interesting to learn these rulings and interactions, hope for more content like that. Good job to the team 👍
This was interesting, the parallel lives and double major interaction totally would have gotten me. I think if you also played some Judge Tower could be very fun, as it is more interactive. It’s such a cool if rare game variant.
Good catch 😅 we just used random lands we had laying around from the last games for game 3 (as the mana in that scenario was not important). Completely missed the Fiery Islet
This video was amazing, it was not only entertaining, it also help me understand more of the rules and it was overall a perfect video. Please I would love to see more content like this.
the easiest way to remember commander damage is to think of it like "commander damage is a property of the cardboard." No matter what happens to the object, if it gets polymorphed, turned into a copy of someone else's commander, flipped face-down, taken control of, etc, as long as that piece of cardboard is attacking, it deals your commander's commander damage. Likewise, if you make a copy of it, or play clone as a copy of it, those copies of it aren't the same piece of cardboard, so they don't do commander damage.
In the third scenario, Carl consistently refers to commander damage from Jhoira as "commander damage from me" ("me" referring to himself) and commander damage from Aesi as "commander damage from yourself" ("yourself" referring to Thoralf). While not technically a rules violation it is incorrect as commander damage is tied to the individual card and not the owner of the card, this is important in the case of partner commanders whose instances of commander damage would be tracked separately.
Great video! And massive kudos. I knew the 3rd one, would have probably checked online for the first one, but I'm still not sure I understand the second one :p
It's amazing how all of these seem completely logical in hindsight and yet I would totally believe anyone if they told me the exact oppposite while we're playing a match
With cards just in standard. Make one player play Luxior, giada's gift + lilliana of the veil + Ratadrabik of Urborg + Jaxis, the troublemaker. *The trick is remembering the Ratadrabik created lilies are zombies and 2/2s if they are animated a second time but can still use their walker abilities. So the p/t of a token lilly is 2/2 + number of loyalty and has vigilance. Maybe the play is to attack and tap, specifically call out that its power is higher than expected. See if they remember vigilance. The other player plays Ob Nixilis, the adversary + Errant, Street Artist + Edgar's Awakening + brass knuckles + twinferno. Just to add some confusion to the play. Lots of tokens and doubling to keep track of and honestly fun cards to play with.
The commander damage one was the only one I got out of all the vids from this series I watched, also beating an oponnent with his own commander damage is kinda hilarious
This was really cool, an idea for the another episode. Would be to have someone try to figure out how to resolve a doomsday stack from maybe 6-9 cards in deck options.
Next, I'd recommend doing Blood Moon, Opalescence, Dryad of the Elysian Groves, and Humility as a puzzle :), with the question of, what is a Dryad Arbor, and what is a basic land, respectively. That, and more of a Commander niche, Donate a player a Notion Thief, you have a Consecrated Sphinx, move to draw step, what happens to the Thief? Edit: add in an Alms Collector to the third player to spice things up!
@@danielfrazier5586 MTR 4.7 Game Layout Permanents that are also creatures(with Dryad Arbor being specifically called out) must be placed in the nonland area. Keeping your Dryad Arbor with your lands is against tournament rules.
@@danielfrazier5586 There was a fairly high profile match where a player attacked into a seemingly empty board only to get blocked by a Dryad Arbor tucked in with his opponents lands. Since then, WotC has added a rule that prevents that from happening, so, yeah, totally against the rules.
Like others pointed out. Officially your creature lands must be put in the creature zone. Dryad arbor was specifically the reason. People used to just hide dryad arbor with all their lands.
9:45: I would have called a judge at the prevention of the damage of Stomp. The first line of Text says "Damage Cant be prevented this turn" which resolves first before the damage of stomp resolves. Which means Damage from stomp couldnt have been prevented by Burrenton Forge-Tender.
Any of the shenanigans with Krark-Clan Ironworks (or wall of roots and chord of calling and probably lots of other things) and the specifics of timing for casting and paying for spells might be fun things to explore
Here’s a fun one I just encountered that required a lot of research. Shark Typhoon and a spell that was miracle’d in but has a double X in the cards mana value and not in the miracle cost.
The "a transformed commander is still your commander" actually won me a game recently, i was playing a +1/+1 counters deck and put one in my commander, then it was hit with a the enchantment that transforms it into a 0/1 insect with indestructible, which made my commander actually BETTER cuz People could not deal with it, i proliferated a whole bunch and Just one shotted the table one at a time
The best part for Parallel Lives is to look at the oracle text It especially talk about "created token" Spell Permanent copies that resolve don't "create token", they become token
You know what I was thinking would trip me up with imposing sovereign? Sleeper agent. I feel like there's some good potential shenanigans with that card.
I thought the first two were kind of easy but I really like that last one. That is something I know people mess up quite often. I am surprised a noncommander player caught that one. I think you kind of telegraphed it by repeatedly mentioning the commander's damage to him every turn so deliberately. but a great video non the less I hope to see more.
I would also like to note that if you were able to pick up your deck, and no one would bat an eye at it, then there is a slight of hand technique called dealling secounds. Basically say you dont want you apponent to know what is on top of your deck, because you know it is really good, and the opponent uses a card that makes you discard the top x cards of your library, then you could just pick up your deck and deal the card under it into the graveyard keeping the card you want on top. But this is all fixed because of the idea, or even a rule, that picking up your deck when you dont need to is sus.
These ones are interesting, because you can't do something too weird because then it's obvious that it's real (like Sun Titan, returning pacifism on a shroud creature) Some easy rules: Collected company putting in a creature and a phantasmal image (i.e. can't copy the creature you put in) Using Mindslaver to control someone with spellskite, and then casting a spell that doesn't target (like Grizzly Bears) and forcing them to use Spellskite to repeatedly target it. The trick is the opponent can be at an odd amount of life If your opponent has an imposing sovereign and you cast a Thassa when you have *four* blue devotion, it will enter the battlefield as a creature but will enter untapped. (This is because it checks the board state, sees 4 devotion, and says 'yep ill enter untapped'). In some sort of artifact deck, use a card with Improvise to tap some artifacts to cast it (for instance, 'Reverse Engineer'). The artifacts you tap can include Trinisphere and/or Howling Mine - the trick is they get turned off when they become tapped. You have a legendary eldrazi that shuffles in when it dies (or blightsteel) and then you copy it with something (For the example, lets use Sakashima). You donate it to your opponent, and then someone plays Wrath of God. You will shuffle the eldrazi back, but the Sakashima wont cause you to shuffle your graveyard into your library. (The trick could either be, suggesting your opponent has to shuffle despite the Sakashima being in your graveyard; or that you have to shuffle your graveyard twice, etc) Lastly, since the change to the Mindslaver rules, you can't look at your opponents sideboard. I'd recommend a simple one where you mindslaver your opponent, and at some point you use Karn, the Great Creator to get Spellskite from their sideboard (and you can make a joke like 'hm this combo seems familiar' to relate to the previous example); and the 'trick' is you can't look at your opponents SB anymore (even when using wishes) As a bonus one - Gemstone Caverns can only be put into play if you're *not* the starting player. I would just create a gamestate where you, on the play, start with a Serum Powder to exile your hand, and then start the game with a Leyline of Anticipation and a gemstone cavern (which you shouldn't be able to). You can then proceed to do anything (if they let the game start, they missed it) Actual lucky last one - They have a Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir in play. You steal the teferi using anything, and then use Mystical teachings to find a creature card (this works because teferi gives it flash). They kill the Teferi during their turn. During their end step, play a Quicken. After the quicken resolves, suspend an ancestral vision (Using quicken lets you suspend at 'instant' speed). Then, suspend a second ancestral vision. Then, try to suspend a greater gargodon (this will be a very obvious 'judge' if they haven't already, but it will help the video move on for the content - but maybe they get tricked since you had teferi out which gives creatures flash?) Actual actual lucky last one - be very specific at the start that you're playing a game of Modern (or any format) and at some point, play a card that's not legal. For instance, you could say 'and we are now playing the pioneer phoenix mirror' and play a Consider, then play Pieces of the Puzzle, revealing a card not legal (i.e. thought scour) And/or you could do one about Companion legality. For instance, you could have Lutri as your commander (only one of each card) and then have more than one copy of a card in your deck. Or a Lurrus deck and you have Leyline binding, etc.
@@CardmarketMagic no worries! I forgot to mention that Thassa, in that example, despite coming in untapped *would* trigger ETB effects (like Soul Warden)
The more I look into becoming a magic judge the more I realize i should just become a lawyer, its a lot easier
fact
Why not both? RULES LAWYER!
being a magic judge is kind of like being a lawyer and a software debugger at the same time, which sounds very difficult
As a lawyer, being a lawyer is easier.
Hahaha 😂 True
5:15: Judge! his Dryad Arbor has to be clearly recognizable as a creature at all times!
Not sure a rule was broken there.
It’s a rule now, nassif(I think) got blown out by a dryad arbor that was placed with his opponents lands and so now you have to but dryad arbor with creatures instead of lands now. At least in tournament play.
@@danielfrazier5586 It's definitely a rule violation to put Dryad Arbor with your lands. It's one of the most famous cases of both "things you didn't know were against the rules" and "you won't believe why this rule exists" that people throw around.
TL;DR: Somebody put a Dryad Arbor with their lands to hide that they had a creature and won an important game as a result. The rules were changed to prevent information hiding from becoming meta.
The rules regarding Game Layout (MTR 4.7) only apply to games played at Competitive and Professional Rules Enforcement Level. But because the scenarios seem like casual games between friends I think it's safe to assume that they are supposed to be judged at Regular REL and therefore the Dryad Arbor placement didn't violated any rules.
@@EldritchDoe lmao imagine having to concede casual commander games for violating tournament rules 🤣
I like that it's expanded to full simulated games with red herring attempts at rules violations
Ditto, you really have to pay attention with these. It's so much more interesting when it isn't blatantly obvious
Big fan of the playing out of the game before we hit a "rules violation". It's a lot easier to understand than trying to explain a big complicated board state. Also, it is a lot more fun!
I always love this "puzzle" approach to the game
maybe the channel could make some videos on puzzles like those on magic duels of the planeswalkers(a pre-set complex game state, you need to win or not die in one turn)
We are currently working on one of those! It's harder than we thought! 😅
@@CardmarketMagic I have one that might be 50/50 on how its ruled, winning due to attempt of casting an illegal spell, but you end the game before you pay the costs.
There's a website called Possibility Storm where they used to put out weekly challenges like that, so you can keep yourself occupied while waiting fore new videos from the MKM team :)
This is a fantastic idea
@@CardmarketMagic Could take positions from famous games too
This was a great expansion on the previous one, the simulation overlay with all the false violations was a great addition! Keep it coming :)
If you're dipping into commander and want some tricky rule situations:
* Face down commander dealing commander damage (it's similar to to the Elk situation, but can still be a good fake out)
* Whether you are entitled to know that a commander (such as Akroma) played face down from a player's hand is a commander
* Getting non-commanders into the command zone via a mutate stack/meld and Leadership Vacuum
Mutate also has some fun stuff, such as:
* Populating off of a mutate stack where the token is on top
* Mutate stack with a Theros God that's not on top and you lose sufficient devotion to make it a creature (you get a permanent with no type)
* Mutating on top of a Planeswalker while it's temporarily a creature, then going down to 0 loyalty on it (it does not die and it can't be attacked)
* Mutate stack where one of the component creatures has undying/persist and the stack dies (they all come back to the battlefield but as individual creatures with the appropriate counter)
* A mutate stack getting turned face down (e.g. by Ixidron)
* A mutate stack getting turned face down and one of the component creatures in the stack has morph and you activate that
EDIT: One more for good measure:
* Turning a face down creature face up (such as via morph) is a special action, so it does not use the stack and cannot be responded to. This means that you can counter a Krosan Grip by turning Voidmage Apprentice face up
Mutate is just a nightmare, my friend recently made a mutate deck and I'll never forgive him for the amount of rules lawyering it creates.
Planeswalkers have a bunch of fun interactions as well:
Suppose you have Oath of Teferi on the battlefield and Grand Master of Flowers has 7 loyalty counters and is thus a creature. You can only activate its loyalty ability once (because it's no longer a planeswalker).
Then there's also Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God using Tibalt's ability to exile a card off each player's library, you can't play those cards. (No emblem, or if you do have one then it doesn't refer to Nicol Bolas)
Tibalt, Cosmic Imposter becomes a creature with Kaldra Compleat equipped to him (via Sarkhan or something) and is blocked by an indestructible creature. The creature is exiled by Tibalt's ability (that was granted by Kaldra), but you're unable to play that creature from exile despite the emblem. (Linked abilities)
The last one only works if the top card has morph, right?
@@YoshiFawful64 I'm confident it'd work wherever it is, since the mutate stack is treated as a single creature on the battlefield and therefore just has the morph ability. Pretty funky interaction!
My Favourite: *Chef's Kiss the casting of a mutate spell and put it onto a creature you control.
Was surprised when the title said 3 rules but the video was 20 mins. Was pleasantly surprised. The absolute better way to see wrong rules, especially the misdirection.
I watched the judges tower yt shorts and I played it with my brother and had a BLAST. Thank you!
3 for 3, though the Thalia/Double Major/Parallel lives almost got me.
I do think that a good one of a similar nature would involve the combo of Pir, Doubling Season, and a + loyalty effect of a PW. Pir turns the COST of putting loyalty on a PW into an EFFECT, which would mean Doubling Season will let you double the loyalty gain.
Could be either as a false judge call thing to cause a trip-up, or as the correct answer.
it would be fun to watch y'all play Judge's Tower against each other 😁
Soon!
@@CardmarketMagic heck yeah!
@@CardmarketMagic The gods have heard our prayers!
@@ih8people ;D
I love how productive you are at creating new video formats, imho none of them have failed so far. Keep up the very entertaining work!
These types of videos are so fun to watch. I tried to solve them too and play along with you which makes them even more fun. I don't know anything about commander so I just watched the last part but the other ones were very interesting. At 12:51 which I think was the most difficult to find and explain, I think the best way to explain it is that Parallel lives cares about effects that say "Create x tokens" Double Major does not create a token as an effect. What is does is copy a creature spell so parallel lives doesn't recognize it as a token creating effect. The fact that you eventually end up with a token is a consequence of making the copy but the spell itself (Double Major) is not a token creating effect per se, so parallel lives will not "see" it.
It's so weird because it feels like a case where reading the card is misleading. Because Parallel Lives says "whenever an effect would PUT a token onto the battlefield...", and I mean, you are *putting* a token onto the battlefield. The very specific thing here is that it's not an *effect* putting a token onto the battlefield, but as they say, creating it on the stack, and then it just enters the battlefield *not because of an effect* but because it is a spell all of its own that is resolving.
Typing this out was actually what made it finally click for me what they meant. You're a great rubber ducky, Vardaris.
@@Svefngengill Yay for rubber duckies :D
@@Svefngengill That's not exactly the reason. I mean, you kind of get the idea of what happens, but sometimes those minute details can change a world, like in this specific example. Double Major does, in fact, have *an effect* that creates a copy of a permanent spell, but it _doesn't create a token,_ as @Vardaris mentioned before (neither on the stack nor anywhere else, the game rules simply turn the copy into a token, see CR 111.11). The resolving copy of a permanent spell _becomes_ a token as it enters the battlefield. The card just has old wording, so it can get players confused. This is why I actually loved playing MTG via Cockatrice -- you can easily check the Oracle text (always check the Oracle text!) by simply hovering over the card and clear out any confusion.
If you do another of these, there should be at least one scenario where the rules violation happens in the first few turns, otherwise it becomes a bit formulaic and easy to predict.
We filmed one like this :) but not in the first episode
Fantastic demonstration of how easy it could be to miss a call or make an illegal play by accident. Love the content!
As always, love the dynamic between Thoralf and Carl! I could watch anything these two put out!
The last scenario wouldnt be even funnier with Ixidron. Because even a face-down commander still deals commander damage.
This was a really fun way to format the video. For some tricky rules stuff there's always the interaction between Opalescence and Humility depending on the order they come into play.
I love that this is presented as a full game playing out - it genuinely feels like I’m getting better at understanding the deeper mechanical interactions of the game more by following along this way.
This does lead me to ask as an open ended question: does becoming a judge make one better at Magic? I would think yes.
It leads you to far better understand the different interactions of the game and how you can use your cards. I qould definitely say it makes you better at magic :) but it's also not easy!
Being a judge does not inherently make you a better player. There were many suboptimal, but technically legal plays in the games presented here. However, there are definitely times when knowing you can Willbender a spell with split second, or use mana from an Urza's Saga on the main phase you sacrifice it, or things like that, let you get an edge over your opponents. In general, there are diminishing returns, where, for each new rule you learn, it pays off less and less. Once you've got the basics, you'll get better faster through understanding principles of good deck construction, strategy, threat assessment, etc. than you will through mastering the very rare little quirks of the game rules that basically never come up except through thought experiments by people trying to break the game.
Always fun to watch the judge vids!
As a computer science graduate and software engineer who's almost never played magic, my favorite part of watching the game is the stack. I genuinely don't find it confusing at all. I love videos like this that show case some interesting aspects of resolving down a stack.
Minor, but important correction: Spells do have effects, but it wasn't the kind of effect that triggers Parallel Lives.
However this example did make it more clear to me how copied permanent spells and the subsequently created tokens are handled.
More of this please!
I don't fully understand why "double major" wouldn't not double but a simple spell like captain's call would?
@@Radenshaal Because Captain's Call has an effect that says that you "create tokens".
On the other hand, referring to rule "111.12. A copy of a permanent spell becomes a token as it resolves. The token has the characteristics of the spell that became that token. The token is not “created” for the purposes of any replacement effects or triggered abilities that refer to creating a token."
So even if your doubling enchantment doesn't care if it was an effect (like Primal Vigor instead of Parallel Lives), Double Major would still only make one copy enter the battlefield.
This is always a good way to check on rules. I see similar things happening at my LGS and i walk away from these knowing just a bit more and can reference why it doesnt work!
Carl and Thoralf's energy and chemistry together is great
This is an awesome format of video! Very interesting to watch. I'm looking forward to seeing more of this!
I love the editing on this video. I would just recommend presenting the stack more like MTGA does to better see what's going on with that first Double Major. And ya got me with the Thalia! I thought it would double that token.
This is a fantastic addition and follow-up to the previous video. The lead-up really helps to contextualize the rules more and the rules chosen this time are a little more tricky and fun to look into. Definitely enjoyed this a lot!
I really like that you guys covered stolen commanders because i've been trying to figure that out myself too and i could'nt even with the comprehensive rules
Commander damaged is linked to the commander itself.... So if someone stole your commander and did 21 point of combat damage with it you would lose to your own comander
Very interesting rules/judge training in this video!
This really makes me want to see you two play Judge's Tower, I feel like it would be a lot of fun and would feel more spontaneous :D
We are currently working on that exact video 😃
@@CardmarketMagic Awesome, can't wait to see!
What is Judge's Tower?
The second one got me. I assumed i knew what parallel lives did. What specific wording, good job on not falling for that.
The Thalia, Double Major and Parallel Lives interaction is not something I was aware of at all! Thats cool!
It’s a non interaction more like
@@Playingwithproxies ah yeah, much better way of phrasing it. Thank you
Can I just say- Carl, I love your outfits. I think if you wanted to do an interesting off-topic or perhaps april fools day video it would be fun to see you show off some of your favorite clothes and talk about where you got them from.
That is so kind 😅 but I think that video would only have 3 viewers, one which would probably be my mother
@@CardmarketMagic I’d sub and watch a fashion channel made by you. You radiate a nice energy!
This format for the show is SO much better than before. This was so much fun, and informative! I almost got got with the parallel lives interaction with Thalia myself. Please continue doing this show like this!
This is some of the most original MtG content I've seen ever, if I wasn't already subscribed with notifications I would right now.
Aww, thank you :)
Another good one would be Sylvan Library + Abundance. You can choose for each of the 3 draws if land or nonland and can keep them without paying life, as they were not "drawn", so they dont count for the Library Trigger to pay
Sylvan Library + Abundance is Normal difficulty. Sylvan Library + Chains of Mephistopheles is more like proper Hard difficulty. But Sylvan Library + Chains + Library of Leng is where the _real_ fun begins
I like playing out a full game to see several potential rules violations like you did hear. Most the rules probably wouldn’t warrant a full video on their own but by bringing it altogether it was a lot more interesting.
Idk how but all this channels content is just so likeable, I think it's just that these guys are literally all sweethearts
If you ever do another episode, I'd love to see some tricky morph stuff! For example, you can protect your creatures with gift of doom without giving your opponents priority to respond in any way, also making it an unreactable death touch combat trick when blocking (provided there are no triggered abilities from cards like secret plans).
Double sided cards can exist on the battlefield face down but only if they enter the battlefield face down: they cannot be turned face down once they're on the battlefield, not even by stuff like ixidron.
Yedora can return manifested instants/sorceries as face down forests upon their death, even though they're no longer creatures in the graveyard. Also works with other stuff, like lands that have been made into creatures.
A card turned face down with yedora can be turned face up with morph despite it having lost all abilities, while a morphed creature on the field with an ability removing enchantment attached - like Kenrith's transformation - cannot be turned face up this way.
Forgetting to show your face down cards to the opponent at the end of the game is a rules infraction, since it is necessary to prove you didn't cheat by morphing cards without morph.
All morphed creatures must be distinguishable in some form, like having them in the order of them entering the battlefield on the board. You also cannot freely change the order or placement of morphed creatures on the field for this reason.
As a bonus, Sefris of the hidden ways not triggering from a boardwipe since its ability is not a death trigger but a creature entering the graveyard trigger could make for a nice scenario
here's a tricky interaction.
on the field is Toren, fist of angels who has a ability that creates a 1/1 human with training when you cast a creature spell.
I play Kyler, Sigardian Emissary who get a +1/+1 counter when a human enter the field.
due to it being a cast trigger Kyler wouldn't see the human the Toren create and just won't gain a +1/+1 counter, but you could say it does within the context of the next Rules Violation video.
and due to the fact that both are new cards this might slip up Thoralf
anyway, I like this video and hope you make more in the future
Very cool, more of this. And as other mention, and you agree on, it would be cool to see you solve magic puzzle board states. And do a “pause the video now, if you want to compete with us” before starting each puzzle.
We are working on building a puzzle solving video, it's so much harder than I expected 🤯
the dualcaster mage combo works, but you have to play double major first then in response play the dualcaster, which enters while double major is still on the stack and can then copy it
Indeed, that's how we wanted to throw Toffel off - but he was too clever to be fooled 🤓
Double Major would then need another target to copy as well, so that still stops it from being a two card combo. I should still probably run it in my Temur Magecraft deck, though. Nothing like infinite triggers!
I'd LOVE to see some "Win this turn" puzzles on here XD This really reminded me of those, and I'm a sucker for puzzles like that.
Great expansion of the original idea! I love the simulated games, whether they start from scratch or midgame. Playing a few scripted turns with some difficult and quickly overlooked interactions is a very nice and welcome Addition. I really like that and would love to see more of this. :)
I sincerely am so hyped with the variety of content on the channel. Cannot wait to see more from y’all! 💙
I dont know if its too much but having actually two players doing all the steps and the "judge" trying to spot when they do something wrong feels like an interesting way to do this
I love this series, I really hope you guys keep doing it. If I could make a suggestion, I'd say look at draw replacement effects like Underrealm Lich combined with cards like Sylvan Library. Oh, and have each player play a draw replacement effect to bring layers into it!
Ooooh layers 😅 I love it! Thank you for the suggestion :)
I had a feeling the commander game would be about commander damage. Great way to understand that the card is the commander, not what's written on it.
*Plays a Volcanic Island*
Me: ……
*Has the correct Goblin Shaman token for Fable*
Me: Oh damn! That’s nice! That’s really rare!
🤣🤣🤣
These videos are so much fun to play along with.
Very cool format about MtG rulings. It's very interesting to learn these rulings and interactions, hope for more content like that. Good job to the team 👍
Awesome concept and i like the production quality with the digital battlefield.
This was straight up amazing. So much fun trying to guess along with all the red herrings.
This is such a great series I wanna see more like this! Gimmie some crazy state based effects
These scenarios are fun. Love the content.
This was interesting, the parallel lives and double major interaction totally would have gotten me. I think if you also played some Judge Tower could be very fun, as it is more interactive. It’s such a cool if rare game variant.
We are working on a Judge's Tower video 🙂 hopefully people will like it
@@CardmarketMagic I'll keep my eyes open
I definitelt like this format much more than the previous one.
I will call a judge at 15:39. I think I see a Fiery Islet being tapped for mana casting the Insurrection, but there is no life paid for that.
Good catch 😅 we just used random lands we had laying around from the last games for game 3 (as the mana in that scenario was not important). Completely missed the Fiery Islet
This video was amazing, it was not only entertaining, it also help me understand more of the rules and it was overall a perfect video. Please I would love to see more content like this.
Wow you incorporated feedback so well! Really impressed!
Awesome to have the game before the rule violation, makes you wonder and think a lot about every rule.
This was very cool. Seems like it probably took a lot of work! It's much appreciated!
I think you can definitely do a rules question of what happens when multiple raging rivers are in play ;)
I really liked this format. Much more interesting, and I learned something new.
I got all of these more or less, although you guys explained exactly how it works better than i could have
Excellent video, I appreciate this content since it shows very weird interactions and how the rules work.
the easiest way to remember commander damage is to think of it like "commander damage is a property of the cardboard." No matter what happens to the object, if it gets polymorphed, turned into a copy of someone else's commander, flipped face-down, taken control of, etc, as long as that piece of cardboard is attacking, it deals your commander's commander damage. Likewise, if you make a copy of it, or play clone as a copy of it, those copies of it aren't the same piece of cardboard, so they don't do commander damage.
In the third scenario, Carl consistently refers to commander damage from Jhoira as "commander damage from me" ("me" referring to himself) and commander damage from Aesi as "commander damage from yourself" ("yourself" referring to Thoralf). While not technically a rules violation it is incorrect as commander damage is tied to the individual card and not the owner of the card, this is important in the case of partner commanders whose instances of commander damage would be tracked separately.
Liked the changes here, some fun interactions and the red herrings were good additions.
Great video! And massive kudos. I knew the 3rd one, would have probably checked online for the first one, but I'm still not sure I understand the second one :p
It's amazing how all of these seem completely logical in hindsight and yet I would totally believe anyone if they told me the exact oppposite while we're playing a match
Last time made it too easy to know when the rules violation happened
This time was really well done
I’m already subbed. I cant sub any further! 😂
With cards just in standard.
Make one player play Luxior, giada's gift + lilliana of the veil + Ratadrabik of Urborg + Jaxis, the troublemaker. *The trick is remembering the Ratadrabik created lilies are zombies and 2/2s if they are animated a second time but can still use their walker abilities. So the p/t of a token lilly is 2/2 + number of loyalty and has vigilance. Maybe the play is to attack and tap, specifically call out that its power is higher than expected. See if they remember vigilance.
The other player plays Ob Nixilis, the adversary + Errant, Street Artist + Edgar's Awakening + brass knuckles + twinferno. Just to add some confusion to the play.
Lots of tokens and doubling to keep track of and honestly fun cards to play with.
The commander damage one was the only one I got out of all the vids from this series I watched, also beating an oponnent with his own commander damage is kinda hilarious
This was really cool, an idea for the another episode. Would be to have someone try to figure out how to resolve a doomsday stack from maybe 6-9 cards in deck options.
Next, I'd recommend doing Blood Moon, Opalescence, Dryad of the Elysian Groves, and Humility as a puzzle :), with the question of, what is a Dryad Arbor, and what is a basic land, respectively. That, and more of a Commander niche, Donate a player a Notion Thief, you have a Consecrated Sphinx, move to draw step, what happens to the Thief? Edit: add in an Alms Collector to the third player to spice things up!
Arguably the placement of the Dryad Arbour was a rules violation! Should be with the creatures, not amongst the lands!
Not sure about that one
@@danielfrazier5586 MTR 4.7 Game Layout
Permanents that are also creatures(with Dryad Arbor being specifically called out) must be placed in the nonland area. Keeping your Dryad Arbor with your lands is against tournament rules.
@@danielfrazier5586 There was a fairly high profile match where a player attacked into a seemingly empty board only to get blocked by a Dryad Arbor tucked in with his opponents lands. Since then, WotC has added a rule that prevents that from happening, so, yeah, totally against the rules.
Like others pointed out. Officially your creature lands must be put in the creature zone. Dryad arbor was specifically the reason. People used to just hide dryad arbor with all their lands.
I like the cardigan. Also, this channel got me into the minutiae of magic, so appreciate it.
Very much enjoyed this! Thank you for making it!
this is all the leadup to the cardmarket Judges Tower gameplay series
Love this format and love you guys, thank you for the videos, they always brighten my mood!
9:45: I would have called a judge at the prevention of the damage of Stomp. The first line of Text says "Damage Cant be prevented this turn" which resolves first before the damage of stomp resolves. Which means Damage from stomp couldnt have been prevented by Burrenton Forge-Tender.
Really loved this new format, what a step up !
Any of the shenanigans with Krark-Clan Ironworks (or wall of roots and chord of calling and probably lots of other things) and the specifics of timing for casting and paying for spells might be fun things to explore
Here’s a fun one I just encountered that required a lot of research. Shark Typhoon and a spell that was miracle’d in but has a double X in the cards mana value and not in the miracle cost.
This was a really fun format for the video
The "a transformed commander is still your commander" actually won me a game recently, i was playing a +1/+1 counters deck and put one in my commander, then it was hit with a the enchantment that transforms it into a 0/1 insect with indestructible, which made my commander actually BETTER cuz People could not deal with it, i proliferated a whole bunch and Just one shotted the table one at a time
Loved this! Humility + an x spell hydra would be good
The best part for Parallel Lives is to look at the oracle text
It especially talk about "created token"
Spell Permanent copies that resolve don't "create token", they become token
Keep having fun! Best part of your content.
I'm lost on how forge tender sacking itself to prevent damage done by stomp allowed the creature to still die
Same here
Stomp, on "Bonecrusher giant", has a line of text most people skip, claiming that damage cannot be prevented
@@CardmarketMagic Reading the card explains the card! Thanks CardMarket!!!
You know what I was thinking would trip me up with imposing sovereign? Sleeper agent. I feel like there's some good potential shenanigans with that card.
@1:45 you asked to sub and I literally subscribed when you said that
Thank you! 😃
I thought the first two were kind of easy but I really like that last one. That is something I know people mess up quite often. I am surprised a noncommander player caught that one. I think you kind of telegraphed it by repeatedly mentioning the commander's damage to him every turn so deliberately. but a great video non the less I hope to see more.
I would also like to note that if you were able to pick up your deck, and no one would bat an eye at it, then there is a slight of hand technique called dealling secounds. Basically say you dont want you apponent to know what is on top of your deck, because you know it is really good, and the opponent uses a card that makes you discard the top x cards of your library, then you could just pick up your deck and deal the card under it into the graveyard keeping the card you want on top. But this is all fixed because of the idea, or even a rule, that picking up your deck when you dont need to is sus.
Love the video! Hope you make more of this type.
can someone elaborate on the burrenton no source thing that Thoralf mentions at 10:02 ?
Yeah I was wondering as well, why does the creature still die after sacrificing the medic?
This channel is something else. Great content guys!
These ones are interesting, because you can't do something too weird because then it's obvious that it's real (like Sun Titan, returning pacifism on a shroud creature)
Some easy rules:
Collected company putting in a creature and a phantasmal image (i.e. can't copy the creature you put in)
Using Mindslaver to control someone with spellskite, and then casting a spell that doesn't target (like Grizzly Bears) and forcing them to use Spellskite to repeatedly target it. The trick is the opponent can be at an odd amount of life
If your opponent has an imposing sovereign and you cast a Thassa when you have *four* blue devotion, it will enter the battlefield as a creature but will enter untapped. (This is because it checks the board state, sees 4 devotion, and says 'yep ill enter untapped').
In some sort of artifact deck, use a card with Improvise to tap some artifacts to cast it (for instance, 'Reverse Engineer'). The artifacts you tap can include Trinisphere and/or Howling Mine - the trick is they get turned off when they become tapped.
You have a legendary eldrazi that shuffles in when it dies (or blightsteel) and then you copy it with something (For the example, lets use Sakashima). You donate it to your opponent, and then someone plays Wrath of God. You will shuffle the eldrazi back, but the Sakashima wont cause you to shuffle your graveyard into your library. (The trick could either be, suggesting your opponent has to shuffle despite the Sakashima being in your graveyard; or that you have to shuffle your graveyard twice, etc)
Lastly, since the change to the Mindslaver rules, you can't look at your opponents sideboard. I'd recommend a simple one where you mindslaver your opponent, and at some point you use Karn, the Great Creator to get Spellskite from their sideboard (and you can make a joke like 'hm this combo seems familiar' to relate to the previous example); and the 'trick' is you can't look at your opponents SB anymore (even when using wishes)
As a bonus one - Gemstone Caverns can only be put into play if you're *not* the starting player. I would just create a gamestate where you, on the play, start with a Serum Powder to exile your hand, and then start the game with a Leyline of Anticipation and a gemstone cavern (which you shouldn't be able to). You can then proceed to do anything (if they let the game start, they missed it)
Actual lucky last one - They have a Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir in play. You steal the teferi using anything, and then use Mystical teachings to find a creature card (this works because teferi gives it flash). They kill the Teferi during their turn. During their end step, play a Quicken. After the quicken resolves, suspend an ancestral vision (Using quicken lets you suspend at 'instant' speed). Then, suspend a second ancestral vision. Then, try to suspend a greater gargodon (this will be a very obvious 'judge' if they haven't already, but it will help the video move on for the content - but maybe they get tricked since you had teferi out which gives creatures flash?)
Actual actual lucky last one - be very specific at the start that you're playing a game of Modern (or any format) and at some point, play a card that's not legal. For instance, you could say 'and we are now playing the pioneer phoenix mirror' and play a Consider, then play Pieces of the Puzzle, revealing a card not legal (i.e. thought scour)
And/or you could do one about Companion legality. For instance, you could have Lutri as your commander (only one of each card) and then have more than one copy of a card in your deck. Or a Lurrus deck and you have Leyline binding, etc.
These are absolutely stellar suggestions! 👌 thank you so much :) I'm definitely using some of these in the next one
@@CardmarketMagic no worries! I forgot to mention that Thassa, in that example, despite coming in untapped *would* trigger ETB effects (like Soul Warden)