I have super fond memories of saving a Leveling roulette as a SMN. HW had recently come out, and the roulette gods had decided that I was going into Brayflox NM for my tome harvesting that day. We suddenly found that our tank was taking a lot of damage, and was having trouble keeping aggro. Eventually, we realized that our tank was a Gladiator, and for refresher, Brayflox NM is the first dungeon where folks are jobbed up. Tanks also didn't get their tank stance on the class, they got it on their job. The healer had their job cut out for them, but as we reached Boss #2, they couldn't keep up, and the healer and I were spending a lot of mana resing the tank. Our sweet sprout tank was obviously new to the game, so we asked if they knew they could grab paladin quests. They said they did know they could become a Paladin, but they got the game wanting to be a Dark Knight, and as such, not knowing the dynamics of the game, intentionally avoided grabbing Paladin so they could pick up Dark Knight, the job they wanted to play. The group let our good sprout know that they weren't going to be able to clear much more content without jobbing up, and our sprout was thankful, but we still had a dungeon to clear. Alright. Goodbye Garuda-Egi, hello chicky nuggy. I let the party know that I'm going to tank with Titan, and let the healer know that our good rocky boi isn't going to have nearly enough mit to work as a normal tank, so we're going to have our work cut out for eachother. Navigating Aiatar out of poison pools, using Phsyick and the pet regen button to keep Titan alive and supplement our WHM, all while at least trying to keep DoTs on Aiatar got us through the dungeon and is still my favorite achievement as a SMN in the game. I don't miss the pet micro in the day to day, I enjoyed the DoT gameplay even while I like 6.0 SMN more, but the flexibility to do things like this? I'll have very fond memories for the rest of my time.
i think with all the dots gone from sch and smr might mean Green mage could be showing up as a class later down the line Think about it remove spells that do dot damage and or dot style like bio and save them for a class that would make more sense. So Green mage could be a class right now Yoshi p might be thinking about to add
Having played since the beta, I miss the OLD old "borrowed Thunder from Black Mage and Aero from White Mage and they still worked with OG Contagion" Summoner... but not the "DoTs only spread to three targets" Summoner. And having played on a PS3 way back when, I feel for your buddy as a career Black Mage. The amount of times I got full credit for A and S ranks that I never even saw by spamming Blizz II...
I'll always find it to be a massive disservice to how every iteration of summoner required some kind of management and skill to play the job and endwalker did away with any effort needed to play the job at all. It's really a slap in the face to what the job always was. It feels like all the dev team wanted was to make people stop complaining about it being hard instead of focusing on what smn players actually enjoyed about it.
Arcanist was the first job I really fell in love with. Between the different pets that could do different things and my chocobo, I felt like I had my own private party running around with me. I got kind of sad when I had to change to SMN just because you lost some of the cross-class skills that made you more versatile. And my god, I still miss Shadow Flare so much. It's such a cool audio/visual effect. ShB SMN made me feel smart for being able to do its complex rotation, making adjustments here and there per fight, consistently. EW SMN makes me feel stupid because the job is so simple that it feels like I'm doing something wrong when I'm playing it and every tiny, little mistake feels terrible because you just shouldn't screw up at all because, again, it's just so simple. Oh..and why does Titan have to blind me every damn minute? I've been playing it more this past week trying desperately to get into it, but it's just not happening. I hope they add a lot in 7.0...maybe add Shadow Flare back. :)
6.x Summoner makes me feel like I'm doing something wrong even when I'm doing everything perfectly, just because there's zero feedback. You could really gauge your expertise in 5.x SMN, but in 6.x there's so little to do that you just feel bad playing it.
This. SMN is in serious need of more skill expression in its kit. As it stands, it doesnt feel too different however you play it. Low skill floor is good for people who want to learn casters in general, but no need for the skill ceiling to practically be the same as the low floor imo
I like the new summoner, it’s a good foundation, but MAN is it too simple. I’m really looking forward to seeing what they’re adding with 7.0. And yep, I also miss 6.0 summoner and especially Shadowflare xD
Arcanist/Summoner is basically the reason I even got into FFXIV. I tried the old free trial at the end of Stormblood and started as a Lancer. I hated it, it was so boring and Gridania felt like a discount shire so I quit. I came back again in SHB patch 5.1 but decided to start as an Arcanist and I immediately felt the difference. Summoner has been my main job ever since but I just still don’t know how I feel about EW summoner. On one hand, it’s stupidly easy to constantly be top dps, but on the other hand the job is so brain dead that sometimes I just don’t want to touch it.
I actually appreciate its rotation in savage content because you now put your brainpower towards optimizing your summon casts. Ifrit is the big one in this as his long cast times and effectively for ed movement are a pain to deal with and you have to really learn the fight to know your Ifrit windows and even learn when to just cut Ifrit short (yes that is a thing!) One thing I’d love for 7.0 is adding the other 3 original summons for after Phoenix phase, if only to mess around with the types of casts the summoner would do each rotation! Another option would be to give Summoner all 6 summons at once but only give you a window for 3 so you had to pick and choose!
I completely feel you. I started playing on free trial during Shadowbringers. I loved the complexity old summoner had. It was so much fun learning it and mastering it. Now, I'm just bored out of my mind. I also did palace of the dead with endwalker summoner, and I feel bad for the new players having to learn that stuff. You barely get ANY spells, and all your gemshines look the same. People were complaining about Smn being a dot RUIN mage in shadowbringers, but endwalker summoner is JUST ruin mage, they just get their spell effects changed at 80. They found a way to make bahamut and phoenix attack without them missing interupting. I want my egi assualts back, and I want my summons to actually attack alongside me. That's what a summoner is to me anyway. Personally, they just needed to take the QoL changes in EW and put it on Shadowbringers. A challenging job that felt rewarding. Again, If people wanted an easier caster to play then play RDM. Summoner isn't for you then. Old summoner was the equivalent of caster Ninja/Monk because of the speed.
Counter-point on the Heavensward SMN, you'd always hit DWT as soon as possible because any fight you were starting with 3 stacks of Aetherflow plus Aetherflow off CD, so you functionally had 6 stacks of Aetherflow, so you'd wanna hit DWT as soon as possible so you could start chaining them.
The biggest thing I remember about ARR smn is the pet having a higher accuracy cap than the smn itself (I think it was melee accuracy for the pet). That was the bane of my existence back then
@@joabsuarez7791nah, they are probably just going to get rid of dots probably. The moment smn lost theirs and brd dots were decoupled from their kits, it was cemented for me for 7 .0
@@somnus970 Part of me wants to hope this would be the case. Not because I don't like dots, I personally like them, but because it means they might give healers more attacks to compensate for losing it. The other part of me excepts them to get rid of the dots and replace them with nothing.
One thing I think they really should do it put elemental mastery much earlier. The job a level 90 feels pretty easy, but before 86 it feels pretty empty. Putting it somewhere between level 60 and 80 would probably feel much better for people leveling / sync content. Granted they'd have to rebalance potencies for the levels affected.
It should go in the 70s imo, that whole level range sucks because you get a couple potency buff traits and then *literally nothing* for six levels. No rotational changes or additions, no oGCDs, just a huge dead zone where you do the same thing. Start it at reduced potency with a buff trait if necessary, but a core feature of the class shouldn't unlock so late in the game. I'd even go so far as to do that and then also replace the 86 trait with an Enkindle button for the 3 elemental phases. Just something to put a little more spice on each phase.
SMN had an interesting history between its old design goal (DoT mage) and its theme of Summoning. You can see how every expac moved from the old design goal and embraced the summoning, with ShB showing how conflicting the two really were. The rework honestly makes sense theme wise, but i do feel that we are now missing whats considered standard for many MMOs in that we have no real DoT mage. Hopefully, the next caster will be the DoT mage we want. If built with the dots in mind, and a theme that matches, i can see it working out nicely
@@NoraNoita agreed. As i stated, the DoT style didnt fit the summoner fantasy and they chose fantasy over the originak style, which is a wise choice. A caster with a theme that DoTs thrive in, such as a darkness based caster, will feel great and i just hope thats what the next caster will be: a DoT master.
@@hellfrozenphoenix13 Yeah that's for sure, summoner really should have been a different blm with some healing like it was in other ff titles. The Endwalker rework got me to main the job. I'm hoping they get more summons in 7.0 since they are no longer pets with rolls and I hope psyick gets reworked and becomes healing light so our Carbuncles have something to do.
@@miricobladetail9670 yes! Physick is an actually useless button atm, so they either need it to scale off of int, or as you said, it turns into a heal with carby. As for future summons, we still have Shiva, Leviathan, and Ramuh before going into any other odd directions. SMN has a lot of room to grow and could be exciting while doing so
i think Green mage will be our next dps It makes sense endwalker they took every dot they could away. So where can spells like Bio and Misama go too?, simple a green mage with more dot like spells and maybe bane going to them as well. Plus we got black white, blue red, yet no green and i think Green mage along with whatever they do for a tank class will be our next set.
One notable change SMN got in late ARR that was misssed was a fairly sizable MP cost reduction on Ruin and Ruin II in patch 2.51 because the low downtime fights in Final Coil were causing MP issues and making SMNs undesirable in raid groups.
It's also good to note that those early pets had a couple abilties they would use automatically, and a couple you had buttons for. You could either choose to manually use those buttons or have the pet do them automatically. Of course, you would want to manually use those abilities so they would be used while buffs were up (especially contagion). In HW, I remember one big thing was that if you accidentally used fester or bane with no dots applied, it wouldn't give you an Aethertrail Attunement stack. This would leave you at less than 3 and prevent you from using Dreadwyrm Trance until you were able to get more aetherflows. I believe SE changed that at some point so it gave you a stack regardless. In SB, in the video you show, it looks like Ruin IV was a casted ability instead the instant cast it was later. Also, by the end, Bane spread the highest duration to other enemies instead of a chance of doing so. (I also remember running through the Sylphlands for dailies and my pet starting to attack an enemy since I got attacked, fall behind, and despawn. Another weird thing about that: you could afk by an enemy with a drop, like the boars in South Shroud, and your pet would kill them over and over everytime they respawned and aggro'd you and get the drops. SE made sure to change that real quick. Please let me know if I'm misremembering this last part.)
I think one completely flavor change I'd bring is the ability to swap your basic 3 summons with other primals you've defeated once you've hit Lv.90. While it wouldn't change anything mechanically in term of damage or timing, it would allow to put your summons in three categories : ruby summons, topaz summons and emerald summons. So some primals would end up under one of these 3 categories and you'd select which one you'd summon for each of them. So you could end up having Susano as your ruby summon, Ramuh as your topaz summon and Shiva as your emerald summon. It would just let them use their signature ability (and since it is already coded in, both animations and effects) then leave and you'd still get your favors (renamed Ruby Favor, Topaz Favor and Emerald Favor) which gives you the current skills you have when under those favors. And since elements are just flavor as well, well it doesn't really matter if you deal fire or ice damage since it is all magical damage anyway.
Yep, I distinctly remember that pet issue back in ARR - allllll the way back to doing Titan Hard and Extreme and having the pets (both fairies and Egi's) off the edge in the northeast so they wouldn't be hit by anything, or having Lily just absolutely massacred by Shiva's AOE spam during her staff form, so you either had to Sustain spam (which you couldn't do due to the AOE damage everywhere) or just let her die and resummon her after. Also having pets available for stacks, so you'd use both Lily and the Egi's to help soak the fireball from Twintania - put them all next to the party and THAT was the designated stack point for fireball.
56:14 just as a correction here, the current phoenix phase is a little stronger than bahamut. They buffed phoenix phase because it was so much weaker than bahamut at the launch of Endwalker. Right now, just counting the Ahk Morn, Deathflare, and 6 casts of Astral Impulse you get 4,440 potency for bahamut whereas 6 uses of fountain of fire plus the cast of revelation is 4,540 potency. It's not a huge difference, only 100 potency higher, but phoenix is still the slightly stronger phase.
I remember Mrhappy saying sometime in the past that it was weird that your level 80 ability would make you weaker because Phoenix phase was weaker than Bahamut phase. And it pushed Bahamut phase to every other minute instead of every minute.
Was hunting for this comment before making it myself. Yeah, I remember it being weaker at launch, but the buff came shortly after, I think in the same patch the first Savage tier was released.
Looking into old school arcanist is like looking into a different timeline. There's so many failed and discarded concepts wrapped up in one class. It makes me wonder what the game would look like if arcanist became the rule instead of the exception. More pets, dots, and branching classes?
I genuinely wish they would've gone more in that direction. Everything is just so homogenized now, it almost feels like the game is scared to be an RPG and offer any kind of meaningful difference between jobs. Can't have any trade offs, or the community will be especially toxic... I suppose I am especially bitter as a former SCH main; juggling all those DoTs was so fun and it felt amazing, and then ShB came and completely gimped my favourite job... :(
In ARR, Ruin II wasn't a movement tool. It was a tool you used so you could smack them with your book and get melee damage in and get them poison potions on top. Yeah. That was a time.
I think they will. They may have realized random dots in kits arent as fun, but having a class focused on doTs can work well. In fact, as long as they give the class a way to "consume" the DoTs for damage right before boss transitions, it could work even with the current meta/design.
@@hellfrozenphoenix13 and they already have things like that too with machinist. wildfire can dbe detonated early if need be, and you can trigger queen's finisher early as well
@@whatamidoingwithmylife4329 exactly. I think the main thing would be just to have a way for a DoT class to "cash" in on dots during boss transitions or rework how dots work on bosses by pausing debuff timers when a transition occurs. But honestly, the latter solution is ripe for unintended side effects.
Am I the only one that wishes that instead of homogenizing everything they just kept the fast pace nuanced aggressiveness of heavensward and stormblood like I really digged that summons used skills on their own accord (stormblood) but if u really wanted efficient dmg you'd manually proc certain skills
i don't really feel like i'm doing any kind of summoning with the new smn. i mean it's the same ~600 potency 5y aoe no matter what you press. it's funny how people hate on old smn egis but ifrit, garuda and titan were all used for different situations... and you felt like you really had a repertoire of different beings to call upon. even though you mostly used ifrit, then garuda for aoe and very rarely titan for prog, that was still a more flavorful smn the 'one-use summon' style translates very badly to ffxiv, as this game has an extreme fear of having any uniqueness among jobs, unlike traditional ff games where different jobs can have vastly different capabilities and quirks. things that i associate with 'one-use summon' style ff smn, such as enormous aoes, high cost in mp, action points or other resources, or ability to exploit elemental weaknesses of multiple enemies simply do not exist here because of how rigidly jobs must follow a template in this game now you just have red gravity, green gravity and yellow gravity
Quantity vs quality New Summoner does a lot of "summoning", but they're all basically the same. They may as well just be Ruin 4 with a new animation. Old Summoner actually had to use the right summon for the job, like a summoner actually would do. Not just throwing everything at the wall but smartly using the right tool for the job. It was better even with the less interesting animations.
I wish we still kept the actual choice between summons still. Like you’d summon Bahamut/Phoenix and then you’d go and summon Ifrit, Titan or Garuda and that would completely change how you’re spells and astral flows works. Ifrit would be the strongest but work like a pseudo-Black mage with strength buffs, Garuda the weakest with an Aoe focus with its spells working like a pseudo-ranged Dps and Titan a middle of the road with standard cast times and defense buffs.
these videos are always so interesting especially for an endwalker player like me, i started in 6.1 so this is all exciting news! can't wait to see the black mage episode, one of my favorite jobs as of late.
Going through the video it got me thinking for 7.0 we should have a DoT Caster Class as a new class which takes inspiration from summoners dots but focuses on dots and not summoning. Heck maybe the class name will be Warlock.
I was thinking a Void Mage could work for this concept. You use dark magics to cause damage over time, and you can summon Voidsent with a resource gained from DoTs. The minions complement the DoTs, but the DoTs are the center focus kinda deal.
The devs would never add a new job with more DoTs. If anything, you can just expect it to be a "caster" that's Reaper except even slower, even less going on, and less utility too because they don't have to pay the nonexistent melee tax.
@@trustytrest except they very well may add DoT. At one point, there was a "devs will never care about PvP" discussion, and yet that did change. So its hard to tell. Time shifts perspectives, and what may have been fact at one point eventually becomes false. Eventually, they will hit a point where the obvious upset at simplification will force them to shift focus. This can happen starting next expac, due to the upset at the current raiding trends that many have spoken up about disliking, or it may take a few expansions to develop. But one thing that MMOs tend to show is the games not only will transform over time, theres no avoiding that they will. Its the nature of the genre.
I have a boatload of memories of losing tanks in dungeons and whipping out Topaz/Titan to do the job. And of course Titan tanking Ramuh ex to bypass orbs. I get why they eventually made pets invincible and untargettable (truly a blessing, resummoning/placing pets was a pain) but I also miss the concept of a tank pet. I was also a big fan of the dot based gameplay (was a former affliction warlock back in TBC days) and hope they reintroduce another dot-class in the future as Bard barely fills in this niche at present.
I'll always lament over Carbuncle's loss of being an actual 'pet' versus being a shiny minion.. I mean I know why it's all been changed and all just.. I dunno. I miss it.
I started playing FFXIV because I loved how Summoner worked as an actual pet class in the past. the Endwalker rework made me so sad I quit the game for like 6 months after finishing the MSQ. I just want my job back, not Gem-Mage.
Summoner now is actually Summoner though... Why does everyone literally hate it? I'll never know I guess, but the dot management was so annoying, I'm glad its gone, but that's just me.
@@dragumkirisute1998 You are correct in it being like a normal FF summoner, but I think a lot of people, myself included, liked the pet management and having a pet that fights along side you. its a clash in people who want a FF "Summoner" and people who just want a pet job.
@@dragumkirisute1998 few reasons: 1) Pet classes in MMOs require having the pet put and managing it. Beastmastery from woW is one example, but ff11 actually did this as well, where you summon them for a while, they do their stuff, and then you cycle to summon a new one. They were highly intractable and arguably the class that set the theme for many other games. 2) Old SMN was a DOT mage and many people liked that aspect a lot. They dont have a replacement in game currently, so naturally people will be disappointed. The closest to a DoT class now is BRD, where the dots dont do much and require 1 button to maintain. 3) SMN is considered extremely basic...because it is. The level 90 kit feels more like a level 70 kit to many, and it feels like its missing vital options. The theme is a homerun, but the gameplay loop is more questionable, as there is little difference between learning the class and mastering it, in all honesty. So for a lot, its about the class feeling "incomplete". A key to remembering the difference is ShB SMN was the transition away from doT and embracing the Summon fantasy fully. So the EW rework makes sense. That doesnt mean a whole, standard-for-the-genre role isnt missing. DoT mages is a part of MMOs and Final Fantasy is currently missing one. Thats why i hope they focus on keeping SMN the way it is now, just build upon what it has, but make a new caster to fill in the DoT fantasy. Void Mage could work wonders in that direction.
Shb summoner was so much fun imo i like the way bahamut works now but i really miss tri-disaster and bane. It was sooooo much fun being in a dungeon and seeing all of the dot procs show up on all of the enemies
@Mrhappy, current SMNs rotation (primal order) depends on your team comp (2 or more people with 15 sec raid buffs = Garuda 1st) and sometimes mixing things around by using Ifrit first when you can stand still so you have Garuda+Swiftcast Slipstream and Titan available for mobility for full uptime.
So I wanted to make mention of a few things specifically for Stormblood Summoner as a few things were missed when Mr. Happy went over it. From 4.2 onward Ruin III was your go to button to push, the potency being reduced was not SE trying to stop summoners from using it outside of Dreadwyrm trance though they were trying too in 4.0 and 4.1. Reason it became your filler is that in 4.2 they made it cost the same as Ruin I and did more potency then it. Hell I think in 4.2 Ruin I upgrades to Ruin III. Mr. Happy also had slight confusion about what Radiant Shield did. It did not give the person you give Radiant shield a 2% damage taken up. Basically, if the boss hit someone with Radiant Shield, the boss would get the 2% Physical damage taken, and since parties usually did solo caster Ifrit was your go to summon as you buff the entire party except yourself and the Healers. An interesting tidbit about role actions for summoner, you were hard lock to four role actions because of how Addle interacted with Bahamut, so most of the time you're forced to take Addle, Lucid, Swift Cast, and Diversion. You only had one role action slot to fill because Addle was that important for getting more out of Bahamut. So you couldn't take even look at Apoc if your healers wanted more Mana out of you. Though I ignored my healers and took Erase to get orange healing for free :) One last thing I wanted to mention was with Dreadwyrm Trance was that if I recall correctly you were only allowed to do like one or two Ruin III's in them and then had to spam Ruin II because if you didn't you would not get all of your Ogcds off for Bahamut to Wyrmwave off of them. Summoner was a pretty wacky job to play during Stormblood but it was my favorite version of Summoner to play until 6.X Summoner came along. If I'm wrong about anything I'm sorry it's been awhile since I've had to last think about Stormblood summoner lmao.
One big complaint a lot of people had about Stormblood summoner was that Ruin 4 was a random proc, but I actually always liked that because it was a nice surprise getting to cast it and seeing the cool animation lol. I do like the way it works currently for Endwalker though; again, it’s a nice little reward for using Energy Drain that you get to use every minute.
i just wanted to add that in the expansions prior to Endwalker, SMN would suffer from multiple personality disorder. not only did its playstyle change with each expansion, it would also be drastically different at each level cap within the same expansion. so like.. in stormblood you could summon bahamut out and all, but if you did DR:MSQ or something, suddenly you were DoT mage again. i love how they've redesigned it so the core rotation is consistent from the very beginning. its also good to finally be able to summon actual primals because thats what summoners in FF do, but i will say nothing has ever _felt_ quite as satisfying as *dreadwyrm trance death flares in HW
Expanding on the Ifrit and Titan damage calculations. They dealt blunt damage (with Garuda dealing magic) in ARR which could be buffed by Monk’s dragon kick. So if a monk was in your party you could use Ifrit instead of Garuda who was often the go-to pet during the latter half of ARR. By HW all pets were adjusted to do magic damage, taking away that synergy with Monk.
It was so satisfying finally mastering summoner back in the day - would eventually love some kind of Anima phase that was all about dots lol, idk I just miss working them in to the rotation 😅
About the Carbuncle does now is stare at you like a lobotomized idiot while you’re in combat… meanwhile, even with re-writes, the Arcanist 10 and 15 Class Quests still lay heavily into the “summon Topaz to shield you!” thing, even though it’s no longer a Tank or Shield Caster and isn’t even a “minion” technically until level 50 and you unlock the glamour options. At the very least, he should still do a ranged auto-attack (ironically, like my GC Squadron Arcanist still does, along with certain other missed abilities) and you be able to choose between single hit or AoE, so at least he’s useful for something other than throwing a shield on you (only when he’s around) or letting you “summon” other things (to which, he goes away) and letting you do most of your own attacks (which frankly, since they’re coming from you and not him, he technically isn’t even needed to be there, but they made it so you can’t use them unless he is which frankly makes no sense… I can see “you summon Titan through your Carbuncle”, but it still replaces him for that time…) …so, I’m not a fan of Carbuncle being reduced to mascot status more or less, at least let him be your ranged auto-attack instead of you having to close in to Book-Bonk range… after all, Bard, Dancer, and Machinist have a ranged auto-attack (but I do see the issue, since Black Mage, White Mage, Sage, and Scholar have the same melee auto-attack restriction and would be unfair if Summoner was the only one to have a ranged auto-attack outside of the “Physical” ranged, which is why they have it). But hey, pipe dreaming. It would also be fun if at the least at Level 90 you could have Shiva-Egi, Rhamu-Egi, and Leviathan-Egi as Carbuncle Glamours, or even a white or purple (Amethyst) Carbuncle just to round out the colors (and I know my friend who mains Summoner wishes she could have a purple carbuncle to match her outfit). After all, SPOILER AHEAD all the primals come to your aid in reaching the edge of the universe, and is why you can “full summon” at level 90 and your previous glamours on the three of them are rendered null and void (to my knowledge, though I’m yet to reach 90 myself so I could be VERY wrong) since you can’t make full size Titan or the others come out as Egi or Carbuncles, only level 16-88 content (89 dungeon caps you at 90)… so, it would be nice! Or a Phoenix-Egi glamour, or a Demi-Bahamut-Egi glamour… So many possibilities, as you said, Mr. Happy. I just hope they at least give us more glamour options, even if you have to be 90 to do it!
loved this comment, but hope the SPOILER AHEAD tag was at the top. it loses effectiveness when the eye is already at that spoiler sentence reading 30 lines in.
Here’s my 2 cents about the knock back. I remember it being used in some raid turn where it would bind a party member in place, then a monster would spawn and walk towards the bound player, if it reached them I think they would die? But summoner could slow the mob and knock it back, making hitting that particular dps check easier.
If you think that this version of SMN is going to get more dynamic in 7.0 is your high on copium. Really think about it here, if they add the three missing primals they will be 1:1 model/vfx replacements. - Leviathan for example is known in his fights to "Dash" across the arena, as well as "Slam/Smash" into it. This lines up with Ifrit's Crimson Cyclone and Crimson Strike. - Ramuh "Leaves Behind" an orb "After an AoE", fitting Garuda's Slipsteam, and lighting is known to be quick fitting the insta-casts. - Shiva "Alternates" between sword and magic stances, just like the player "Alternates" pressing gemshine and astral flow. These "Summons" will be learned at 92, 94, and 98. Not only that they will swap out ever Phoenix/Bahamut summon. Level 96 will be the obligatory damage buff Trait, and level 100 will be a Trait that requires the summoner to summon each primal in succession to upgrade bahamut which may grant a use of an extra button. To me the job is dead boring and no longer fun to play, spamming the same Gemshine over and over again is not good gameplay, yes there was Ruin spam, but That monotony was broken up with the aid of Egi-Assults and the fact that Ruins were Casts meaning you did not really have to spam press. I did try to give the change a go at it, but I found the gameplay boring and was actually injuring my thumb on controller due to the Gemshine spamming. I Really do not think it was right to uproot a job that some players were enjoying and leave them with no alternative option of similar gameplay. I am really hoping that the next job is a caster as the current pool is down to just Red Mage and Black Mage (Summoner is not a caster, it's a physical range. Claiming it to be caster would be the same as saying Samurai is a caster and not a melee due to Iaijutsu casts). And while a DoT mage would be great, I would rather have the gameplay of the job be top priority in its design unlike current summoner.
Honestly I really miss the DoT SMN, the new endwalker SMN is flashy but its not the class I spent 3 years playing and loving and it feels kind of "eh" now
Damn, I really do miss what SMN was before. Yes, you do summon more, but at the cost of impact. You no longer build up to summon, I mean the first GCD of your opener is just Summon Bahamut. You just press Astral Impulse 7 times and that's it, no interaction outside of hitting Ahk Morn once. You no longer manage and control these summons, you just throw them out for high potency and then they just jump away. But I feel like the devs have opened Pandora's box; they've made the job so painfully strict and rigid that adding more mechs will be intrusive on the rotation. Honestly, we need a rework in 7.0, that incorporates aspects of the job prior to 6.X. But considering this game's current trajectory of stripping job mechanics to fit into the 2min meta and action/ button bloat, this is highly unlikely.
They implemented Ruin II for Titan Extreme because Summoners couldn’t get off Ruin I in time in between Titans attacks. Instant cast with higher cost for manna. Was directly implemented for the Trials for their first Fan Fest/needed to create it also not to replace Ruin I in regular PVE play. Was literally first introduced cause Titan was such an OP BOSS! 😂
The squadron arcanists still use Shadow Flare. In fact, the squadron NPCs all use the old skill sets for some reason and I got the suspicion that's why they were abandoned in favor of Duty Support. Spaghetti code makes it impossible to change to the new skills without breaking stuff.
@@CleopatraKing Ah, then it still applies to all NPCs. Mobs in the open world also use old skills sometimes, but it's not as noticeable, since they tend to have very limited skill sets.
EDIT: Added a bigger post to talk about my thoughts on SMN after the Sustain change mention. You forgot one little thing about SMN in Heavensward. Sustain was no longer a spell that healed your pet by sacrificing a portion of your HP. It was changed into a HoT that healed 8% every tick 10 times, meaning it would heal the pet for a total of 80% HP. It made the self-sustainability of SMNs during solo stuff or during emergency moments in dungeons much better not to mention it removed a huge issue for SMNs to keep their pets alive in raid content since they had an easy 'fire and forget' button for keeping their pet alive. Also I'd like to add my opinions as someone that basically has been a SMN main from the beginning since I joined in the early days of Heavensward. HW SMN was quite interesting and it was really neat having the ability to have a tank pet around that could be very handy in various moments. It was indeed pretty much a DoT Mage back then with having to use Contagion with Tri-Disaster during DWT. Garuda was indeed the king of all 3 pets to use at the time with Titan usually being for solo stuff or emergency moments. SB SMN was quite fun just with the fact we actually had a actual 'summon' of sort in the form of Demi-Bahamut. The DoT Mage trend was still very much prevalent in that expansion. Though one of the bigger issues in HW and in SB was the heavy risk of massively messing up the rotation if you missed getting an Aethertrail due to a Fester missing the DoTs on the boss. As you mentioned during the video, the damage calculation between physical and magical damage back then made Garuda remain among the top spot for the pet to use in general. Titan still retained somewhat of a place as a tank pet...however that place was heavily threatened by the fact that while Titan can build up aggro rather okay, he cannot taunt...which is a huge thing to keep in mind since when you summoned Bahamut, he would despawned, losing all his built aggro on your target which only meant that when he respawned after Bahamut left, he could no longer really tank for you since he couldn't really catch up to your now-higher amount of aggro that you had, even when using Diversion and Lucid Dreaming. For ShB SMN, the early days of ShB retained that 'Fester-like' aspect due to how you needed your DoTs to be on the target so that your Ruin spells would do proper damage, however DoT management did become a bit easier thanks to Tri-Disaster getting many reset opportunities during a boss fight. During a SMN rotation in ShB, you'd basically have to refresh your DoTs manually only once in the 2 min rotation window. The rest of the time your DoTs were refreshed using Tri-Disaster. But missing the DoTs somewhat still sucked badly. But the major pet changes made it so that the whole pet tank aspect was no more which made some older content a bit harder to solo as SMN. Another detail about the pets was that if you used Egi-Assault 1 with Titan out, you would not get a Ruin 4 stack since the only way to proc the stack was from a successful attack. That meant that using Titan actually gimped your overall DPS vs Garuda and Ifrit. However the pet changes brought forth the rise of Ifrit as the primary damage pet for SMNs in ShB. Due to how you basically had to spam the Egi-Assaults in your rotation, Garuda's Slipstream would not work well in that situation. The other really notable thing was the massive APM requirements to play SMN at its best. Heck, early ShB SMN even caused some issues during the Eden's Gate Savage World First race with at least one group's caster switching from SMN to BLM because his fingers were hurting too much due to the crazy piano opener SMNs had. Fortunately in the major patches following ShB's release, SMN got some much appreciated tweaks that made the job a complex yet impressive powerhouse of a job, capable of leaving both BLM and RDM in the dust. And then there's the big rework that SMN got with Endwalker. I'll be honest, I LOVE the change even if it means that SMN lost its no1 caster DPS spot it had in ShB alongside losing its DoT Mage identity. The job now actually feels like you're playing a classic FF Summoner, which is a rather important thing since every job in FF14 is well adjusted to make you feel like you're probably playing something matching the identity of the FF job in question. Yes, the job is overall a lot easier to play than the crazy thing it was in ShB, but if you're observant, you'll realize that there's moment where you can do some clever adjusting in fights to make your DPS better in that specific fight. In other words, SMN now has a bit of that BLM-esque fight-knowledge requirement to optimize its rotation. I really do hope we get to use the other 3 main classic Summons in the next expansion as it could indeed be a great buildup on the new SMN foundation that the job has with Endwalker.
I'm relearning Summoner, since all my buttons are unable to be used, by replaying the class quests, and I don't like that the pet doesn't have an auto attack anymore.
I hope in Dawntrail we simply get more summons. The job quest never really went into detail why we couldn’t summon Ramuh. They just kinda shrugged and went “Huh, that’s weird, oh look an Ascian!” So I’d like them to just add Ramuh, Leviathan, and Shiva. Give Ysayle some new love. Lol But yeah, maybe set it up so you do TGI during after Bahamut, and the other three after Phoenix.
56:56 I miss the 1 2 combo from phoenix, that was one of the main things that kind of ruined summoner for me in Endwalker. When they announced the rework, I was praying that Bahamut was going to get the 1 2 combo as well, but sadly phoenix lost it instead.
I do wish Carby had some kind of attack, though. Just an instant-cast Ruin (like SCH's Ruin 2) that wouldn't disrupt anything else would be a nice change.
I miss my DoTs and the fact that they were a requirement for the Fester.. And the hard rotation from HW.. ;-; I loved this expension because SMN was SUCH a good job ! I'm still loyal to it to this day but damn.. The only thing making me keep it as a main is just my love for Bahamut lmao !! Stil love FFXIV ♥
I see a pot of people unhappy with the whole one attack summon thing, heres my two cents For for non demi summons have them stay until you used all your ruby rites and have the attack done by the summon instead, an almost purely cosmetic change but i think it would help with the one attack problem. You could even have egis summoned alongside carbuncles to make it purely visual after all i think modern pc's can handle two pets
Current summoner funnies: Phoenix and Bahamut have the same potency totals for their attacks, with the Gcd's of Phoenix dealing enough damage to make up for its lack of deathflare. The job is fun but I refuse to touch it in raids because I will fall asleep if I do.
Honestly I've loved every single iteration of summoner I've played, even if EW is completely different from its previous iterations. I did like having the pet doing stuff all the time but it was always frustrating to get ghosted on top of having to manage all the DoTs. Funnily enough, there's a huge number of people who don't actually play it that complain about the DoT loss. Current SMN is indeed less busy but I like the design overall, just wish its utility was something one could actually use when we want (e.g. the Phoenix regen being like Magick Barrier instead of tied to our burst window, Ifrit gap closer being usable later instead of within 2-4 GCDs). I don't mind the potency loss but I would like it to be justified more other than >you get to move around< because let me tell you, between double/triple/swift cast, acceleration, foul, and sharpcast, mobility in casters has never been less of an issue.
SMN, the never ending problem child. I'm hoping in 7.0 they add a lot, they fixed the job fantasy visually but made it super weak with basically the same rotation as healers but without actually needing to heal to make it fun. And I might cry if we get to 7.0 and Carby still doesn't even auto attack or something other than shield. Genuinely, I feel like they screwed up in ARR, SMN really should be the stationary nuke, not BLM, while BLM should have been the DoT and pew pew chain spell slinger, bio is usually a BLM spell in like every other game too.
@Mrhappy1227 I think that for the Radiant Shield in Stormblood, it was referring to the target of the damage reflection, not the target of the shield, which (though my recollection is fuzzy) I believe was an AoE buff to everyone near Ifrit. Heck I think it was AoE back in ARR. But yeah, it didn't make your allies take more damage, which is probably why you felt confused reading it, it was just poorly written there. I mained Summoner through Shadowbringers, so. I should remember these better, but as your video shows, things changed so often it's hard to keep track. *Edit* Just checked an old guide. Looks like the AoE Radiant Shield was a 3.0 addition, so my fuzzy ARR memories are wrong, which tracks with how fuzzy they are.
Gosh I almost wish the Endwalker rework didn't happen. Of course it's a better class in general now for most people. But I am a massive fan of Dot classes. Affliction warlock my favorite in WoW is my favorite mmo class of all time. I really miss the dot emphasis that summoner used to have. The old fester is very similar to warlock in WoW and I loved it, I just find abilities that increase in damage with each dot super appealing gameplay, I love dot management and being rewarded for good dot management. FFXIV needs a dot class, something severely lacking since the Smn rework.
Seeing how summons used to play prior to endwalker, I kinda wish what they had done was give a new attack skill for the summons that briefly turns the egi into ifrit/garuda/titan for the duration of the attack.
Played ACN right up to unlocking SMN during my first foray into XIV between 3.0 and 3.2, and then didn't play again until last year(aside from like one day in 2019) So this'll be fun. New Summoner feels way more Summoner-y but I still miss the DoTs!
I originally played ACN with the intent for SCH back in... I don't quite remember, stormblood? Back when the pets were still their own things. I specifically remember though, when it came time to swap to SCH, I felt so sad because it meant I couldn't have carbuncle anymore. It genuinely felt like saying goodbye to a friend that'd been by my side through so much hardship.
I lived all of this, well maybe not "all" I only joined the game in 2.5, but I've been maining SMN since day 1 and still do. The job was somethig else, eventually almost every patch you'd just play a little differently, it was wild. I think I had the most fun with HW summoner overall tho I do not hate EW summoner, for once not having to read 30+ page documents detailing your optimal playstyle, now you just figure out in what order do you summon your primals, I don't have to swap summons for AoE/Single target, I don't have to battle for dot spots in Alliance Raids (honestly that was the worst, not applying fast enoug and seeing that yep, indeed, you don't see your dots on the boss and knowing your DPS will be absolutely horendous for it ugh). But still, being able to play the job back then competently felt like an accomplishment, since EW, it's really braindead, no pride in "playing well" anymore. But that's fine
This job was why I fell in love with the game, I was captured and mesmerised by how the job functioned in ARR, HW, and Stormblood. But sadly, after the rework in Shadowbringer and Endwalker, I can't stomach it anymore and by extension the entire game.
honestly most of my issues with new summoner fall down on down sync. Aethercharge not having any visible change to normal ruin and just having a count down to start the summoning cycle. Aethercharge not being able to be used to initiate combat like bahamut/phoenix can just feels bad. Also either add some kind of auto attack back to carbuncle or just remove it at this point. Carbuncle is a glorified minion that actually punishes you for dying considering it isnt instantcast to summon anymore and half of your kit doesnt work with it not summoned. god help you if you have to ride out some time in transcendence before resummoning it losing even more gcds.
I hope you'll consider SCH for the next retrospective, while all the SMN details are still fresh in your mind for comparisons. I think Shadowbringers just completely ruined Scholar; just look at all those fun skills both SCH and SMN lost... While I'm glad the pets don't die so easily now, every single other change just added frustration (e.g. the Aetherflow change) or removed all the fun from the job...
'big flashy attack that is basically just a spell' oh so you mean summoners throughout all of final fantasy as a franchise i hope the dot mage fans eventually get what they want, maybe a necro, but summoner was not that
Oh my, Summoner, my first main. I miss the old Summoner, Bio, Bio 2, Miasma, Bane, and Shadow Flare. Everything melts. Those where the good ole days. The class has changed so much over the years that I just gave up. Also, the whole thing of needing to pay to re-roll your stats if you wanted to switch between Summoner and Scholar, damn near made me quit the game.
Im huffing my copium and hoping the next caster will bring back the old SMN gameplay in a package that makes sense. Like a Void Mage. Im gonna get high off this hopium.
I mainly just wish theyd let carbuncle attack again. I hate seeing him just stand there. In 6.0 i was fine with it because he had two abilities but now he only has the shield. Might as well just take him away completely and just leave him as the pre-egi summons. Id also like if they found a way to allow energy drain/siphon + fester/painflare to be connected to the rest of the tool kit in some way instead of just being tacked on. I miss the satisfaction of that potency boost from landing on enemies i had dotted. Yeah i know we get the same total potency to that3 now but its the samurai kaiten issue all over again, innit. In a perfect world, to me, smn would have retained its dots AND got the new version of the summons. And carbuncle would either still attack or have more to do than a shield and being a sentient pokeball. Smn was my main until endwalker. And while i enjoyed new smn at first, once the excitement of having big boiz wore off, it has since become the job i play the least out of all 20. Which makes me sad. At least the plot of EW gave my headcanon plenty of reasons to justify my SMN main retiring the primals and picking up other fighting styles.
Honestly, just bring back the Egi-Assault(s) as something to have during the Garuda/Ifrit/Titan part of your rotation so that way you still feel like you're attacking along side your summon. Have it so Carby's charged up after each of the summons and ready to blast. Also Summoner's lv100 should just be chaining back to back Titan summons. Seeing things is overrated anyway.
![[TH] 2024 PMSL SEA Finals D2 | Fall | ต้องรักษาฟอร์ม อย่ายอมให้ใครแซง](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/x38QsGn7A3M/mqdefault.jpg)
An hour video about the best job in the game LET'S GOOOO
Hey get out of here. Go on. Git!
>Shadowflare back when?
was the best job in the game anyways lol
Hope your game is coming along nicely larry! I miss your ff content tho. Especially the compilation of your friends tackling the new raids.
Black Mage?
I have super fond memories of saving a Leveling roulette as a SMN. HW had recently come out, and the roulette gods had decided that I was going into Brayflox NM for my tome harvesting that day. We suddenly found that our tank was taking a lot of damage, and was having trouble keeping aggro. Eventually, we realized that our tank was a Gladiator, and for refresher, Brayflox NM is the first dungeon where folks are jobbed up. Tanks also didn't get their tank stance on the class, they got it on their job.
The healer had their job cut out for them, but as we reached Boss #2, they couldn't keep up, and the healer and I were spending a lot of mana resing the tank. Our sweet sprout tank was obviously new to the game, so we asked if they knew they could grab paladin quests. They said they did know they could become a Paladin, but they got the game wanting to be a Dark Knight, and as such, not knowing the dynamics of the game, intentionally avoided grabbing Paladin so they could pick up Dark Knight, the job they wanted to play. The group let our good sprout know that they weren't going to be able to clear much more content without jobbing up, and our sprout was thankful, but we still had a dungeon to clear.
Alright. Goodbye Garuda-Egi, hello chicky nuggy. I let the party know that I'm going to tank with Titan, and let the healer know that our good rocky boi isn't going to have nearly enough mit to work as a normal tank, so we're going to have our work cut out for eachother. Navigating Aiatar out of poison pools, using Phsyick and the pet regen button to keep Titan alive and supplement our WHM, all while at least trying to keep DoTs on Aiatar got us through the dungeon and is still my favorite achievement as a SMN in the game. I don't miss the pet micro in the day to day, I enjoyed the DoT gameplay even while I like 6.0 SMN more, but the flexibility to do things like this? I'll have very fond memories for the rest of my time.
8:30 I think everyone that played SMN and SCH back before Shadowbringers misses Shadowflare.
i think with all the dots gone from sch and smr might mean Green mage could be showing up as a class later down the line
Think about it remove spells that do dot damage and or dot style like bio and save them for a class that would make more sense. So Green mage could be a class right now Yoshi p might be thinking about to add
I miss Shadowflare
You...would be mistaken. Not everyone misses Shadowflare.
Having played since the beta, I miss the OLD old "borrowed Thunder from Black Mage and Aero from White Mage and they still worked with OG Contagion" Summoner... but not the "DoTs only spread to three targets" Summoner.
And having played on a PS3 way back when, I feel for your buddy as a career Black Mage. The amount of times I got full credit for A and S ranks that I never even saw by spamming Blizz II...
I'll always find it to be a massive disservice to how every iteration of summoner required some kind of management and skill to play the job and endwalker did away with any effort needed to play the job at all. It's really a slap in the face to what the job always was. It feels like all the dev team wanted was to make people stop complaining about it being hard instead of focusing on what smn players actually enjoyed about it.
Arcanist was the first job I really fell in love with. Between the different pets that could do different things and my chocobo, I felt like I had my own private party running around with me. I got kind of sad when I had to change to SMN just because you lost some of the cross-class skills that made you more versatile. And my god, I still miss Shadow Flare so much. It's such a cool audio/visual effect.
ShB SMN made me feel smart for being able to do its complex rotation, making adjustments here and there per fight, consistently. EW SMN makes me feel stupid because the job is so simple that it feels like I'm doing something wrong when I'm playing it and every tiny, little mistake feels terrible because you just shouldn't screw up at all because, again, it's just so simple. Oh..and why does Titan have to blind me every damn minute? I've been playing it more this past week trying desperately to get into it, but it's just not happening. I hope they add a lot in 7.0...maybe add Shadow Flare back. :)
6.x Summoner makes me feel like I'm doing something wrong even when I'm doing everything perfectly, just because there's zero feedback. You could really gauge your expertise in 5.x SMN, but in 6.x there's so little to do that you just feel bad playing it.
This. SMN is in serious need of more skill expression in its kit. As it stands, it doesnt feel too different however you play it. Low skill floor is good for people who want to learn casters in general, but no need for the skill ceiling to practically be the same as the low floor imo
I like the new summoner, it’s a good foundation, but MAN is it too simple. I’m really looking forward to seeing what they’re adding with 7.0.
And yep, I also miss 6.0 summoner and especially Shadowflare xD
The video we were all waiting for
Arcanist/Summoner is basically the reason I even got into FFXIV. I tried the old free trial at the end of Stormblood and started as a Lancer. I hated it, it was so boring and Gridania felt like a discount shire so I quit. I came back again in SHB patch 5.1 but decided to start as an Arcanist and I immediately felt the difference. Summoner has been my main job ever since but I just still don’t know how I feel about EW summoner. On one hand, it’s stupidly easy to constantly be top dps, but on the other hand the job is so brain dead that sometimes I just don’t want to touch it.
I actually appreciate its rotation in savage content because you now put your brainpower towards optimizing your summon casts. Ifrit is the big one in this as his long cast times and effectively for ed movement are a pain to deal with and you have to really learn the fight to know your Ifrit windows and even learn when to just cut Ifrit short (yes that is a thing!)
One thing I’d love for 7.0 is adding the other 3 original summons for after Phoenix phase, if only to mess around with the types of casts the summoner would do each rotation! Another option would be to give Summoner all 6 summons at once but only give you a window for 3 so you had to pick and choose!
I completely feel you. I started playing on free trial during Shadowbringers. I loved the complexity old summoner had. It was so much fun learning it and mastering it. Now, I'm just bored out of my mind. I also did palace of the dead with endwalker summoner, and I feel bad for the new players having to learn that stuff. You barely get ANY spells, and all your gemshines look the same. People were complaining about Smn being a dot RUIN mage in shadowbringers, but endwalker summoner is JUST ruin mage, they just get their spell effects changed at 80.
They found a way to make bahamut and phoenix attack without them missing interupting. I want my egi assualts back, and I want my summons to actually attack alongside me. That's what a summoner is to me anyway. Personally, they just needed to take the QoL changes in EW and put it on Shadowbringers. A challenging job that felt rewarding. Again, If people wanted an easier caster to play then play RDM. Summoner isn't for you then. Old summoner was the equivalent of caster Ninja/Monk because of the speed.
Counter-point on the Heavensward SMN, you'd always hit DWT as soon as possible because any fight you were starting with 3 stacks of Aetherflow plus Aetherflow off CD, so you functionally had 6 stacks of Aetherflow, so you'd wanna hit DWT as soon as possible so you could start chaining them.
The biggest thing I remember about ARR smn is the pet having a higher accuracy cap than the smn itself (I think it was melee accuracy for the pet). That was the bane of my existence back then
I really miss having a DoT centric job. Hopefully they’ll add one in 7.0
My theory is they got rid of the DOTs because the mage class we should be getting will be DOT centered!
@@joabsuarez7791 i hope you're right
@@joabsuarez7791nah, they are probably just going to get rid of dots probably. The moment smn lost theirs and brd dots were decoupled from their kits, it was cemented for me for 7 .0
@@somnus970 Part of me wants to hope this would be the case. Not because I don't like dots, I personally like them, but because it means they might give healers more attacks to compensate for losing it. The other part of me excepts them to get rid of the dots and replace them with nothing.
Damn maybe 8.0
One thing I think they really should do it put elemental mastery much earlier. The job a level 90 feels pretty easy, but before 86 it feels pretty empty. Putting it somewhere between level 60 and 80 would probably feel much better for people leveling / sync content. Granted they'd have to rebalance potencies for the levels affected.
It should go in the 70s imo, that whole level range sucks because you get a couple potency buff traits and then *literally nothing* for six levels. No rotational changes or additions, no oGCDs, just a huge dead zone where you do the same thing. Start it at reduced potency with a buff trait if necessary, but a core feature of the class shouldn't unlock so late in the game.
I'd even go so far as to do that and then also replace the 86 trait with an Enkindle button for the 3 elemental phases. Just something to put a little more spice on each phase.
Agreed. The fact that the core rotation barely changes from somewhere in ARR to lvl 86 is a big bummer
SMN had an interesting history between its old design goal (DoT mage) and its theme of Summoning. You can see how every expac moved from the old design goal and embraced the summoning, with ShB showing how conflicting the two really were. The rework honestly makes sense theme wise, but i do feel that we are now missing whats considered standard for many MMOs in that we have no real DoT mage.
Hopefully, the next caster will be the DoT mage we want. If built with the dots in mind, and a theme that matches, i can see it working out nicely
They could pick up the idea of a DoT Master class into a new job though.
@@NoraNoita agreed. As i stated, the DoT style didnt fit the summoner fantasy and they chose fantasy over the originak style, which is a wise choice. A caster with a theme that DoTs thrive in, such as a darkness based caster, will feel great and i just hope thats what the next caster will be: a DoT master.
@@hellfrozenphoenix13 Yeah that's for sure, summoner really should have been a different blm with some healing like it was in other ff titles. The Endwalker rework got me to main the job. I'm hoping they get more summons in 7.0 since they are no longer pets with rolls and I hope psyick gets reworked and becomes healing light so our Carbuncles have something to do.
@@miricobladetail9670 yes! Physick is an actually useless button atm, so they either need it to scale off of int, or as you said, it turns into a heal with carby.
As for future summons, we still have Shiva, Leviathan, and Ramuh before going into any other odd directions. SMN has a lot of room to grow and could be exciting while doing so
i think Green mage will be our next dps
It makes sense endwalker they took every dot they could away.
So where can spells like Bio and Misama go too?, simple a green mage with more dot like spells and maybe bane going to them as well. Plus we got black white, blue red, yet no green and i think Green mage along with whatever they do for a tank class will be our next set.
One notable change SMN got in late ARR that was misssed was a fairly sizable MP cost reduction on Ruin and Ruin II in patch 2.51 because the low downtime fights in Final Coil were causing MP issues and making SMNs undesirable in raid groups.
It's also good to note that those early pets had a couple abilties they would use automatically, and a couple you had buttons for. You could either choose to manually use those buttons or have the pet do them automatically. Of course, you would want to manually use those abilities so they would be used while buffs were up (especially contagion).
In HW, I remember one big thing was that if you accidentally used fester or bane with no dots applied, it wouldn't give you an Aethertrail Attunement stack. This would leave you at less than 3 and prevent you from using Dreadwyrm Trance until you were able to get more aetherflows. I believe SE changed that at some point so it gave you a stack regardless.
In SB, in the video you show, it looks like Ruin IV was a casted ability instead the instant cast it was later. Also, by the end, Bane spread the highest duration to other enemies instead of a chance of doing so.
(I also remember running through the Sylphlands for dailies and my pet starting to attack an enemy since I got attacked, fall behind, and despawn. Another weird thing about that: you could afk by an enemy with a drop, like the boars in South Shroud, and your pet would kill them over and over everytime they respawned and aggro'd you and get the drops. SE made sure to change that real quick. Please let me know if I'm misremembering this last part.)
I will always remember shadowflare because of larryzaur
I think one completely flavor change I'd bring is the ability to swap your basic 3 summons with other primals you've defeated once you've hit Lv.90. While it wouldn't change anything mechanically in term of damage or timing, it would allow to put your summons in three categories : ruby summons, topaz summons and emerald summons. So some primals would end up under one of these 3 categories and you'd select which one you'd summon for each of them. So you could end up having Susano as your ruby summon, Ramuh as your topaz summon and Shiva as your emerald summon.
It would just let them use their signature ability (and since it is already coded in, both animations and effects) then leave and you'd still get your favors (renamed Ruby Favor, Topaz Favor and Emerald Favor) which gives you the current skills you have when under those favors. And since elements are just flavor as well, well it doesn't really matter if you deal fire or ice damage since it is all magical damage anyway.
Yep, I distinctly remember that pet issue back in ARR - allllll the way back to doing Titan Hard and Extreme and having the pets (both fairies and Egi's) off the edge in the northeast so they wouldn't be hit by anything, or having Lily just absolutely massacred by Shiva's AOE spam during her staff form, so you either had to Sustain spam (which you couldn't do due to the AOE damage everywhere) or just let her die and resummon her after.
Also having pets available for stacks, so you'd use both Lily and the Egi's to help soak the fireball from Twintania - put them all next to the party and THAT was the designated stack point for fireball.
56:14 just as a correction here, the current phoenix phase is a little stronger than bahamut. They buffed phoenix phase because it was so much weaker than bahamut at the launch of Endwalker. Right now, just counting the Ahk Morn, Deathflare, and 6 casts of Astral Impulse you get 4,440 potency for bahamut whereas 6 uses of fountain of fire plus the cast of revelation is 4,540 potency. It's not a huge difference, only 100 potency higher, but phoenix is still the slightly stronger phase.
I remember Mrhappy saying sometime in the past that it was weird that your level 80 ability would make you weaker because Phoenix phase was weaker than Bahamut phase. And it pushed Bahamut phase to every other minute instead of every minute.
Was hunting for this comment before making it myself. Yeah, I remember it being weaker at launch, but the buff came shortly after, I think in the same patch the first Savage tier was released.
you didn't mention the changes to egi assault 1 and 2 in 5.1. they were abilities before, and they were changed to spells.
I much prefer the damage over time specialist, it was a good change from ff11 style, plague mage with summons was fun
Looking into old school arcanist is like looking into a different timeline. There's so many failed and discarded concepts wrapped up in one class. It makes me wonder what the game would look like if arcanist became the rule instead of the exception. More pets, dots, and branching classes?
I genuinely wish they would've gone more in that direction.
Everything is just so homogenized now, it almost feels like the game is scared to be an RPG and offer any kind of meaningful difference between jobs.
Can't have any trade offs, or the community will be especially toxic...
I suppose I am especially bitter as a former SCH main; juggling all those DoTs was so fun and it felt amazing, and then ShB came and completely gimped my favourite job... :(
In ARR, Ruin II wasn't a movement tool.
It was a tool you used so you could smack them with your book and get melee damage in and get them poison potions on top.
Yeah.
That was a time.
The "'new" summoner feels a lot more like a summoner but... a lvl 60 one.
I know that they are heavily pushing away from DoTs, but I would still love for them to try something like a DoT mage again even in a minor manner
I think they will. They may have realized random dots in kits arent as fun, but having a class focused on doTs can work well. In fact, as long as they give the class a way to "consume" the DoTs for damage right before boss transitions, it could work even with the current meta/design.
Don't think that will happen. It would contradict with the burstmeta. I am pretty sure that even BRD will lose their dots at one point
@@hellfrozenphoenix13 and they already have things like that too with machinist. wildfire can dbe detonated early if need be, and you can trigger queen's finisher early as well
@@whatamidoingwithmylife4329 exactly. I think the main thing would be just to have a way for a DoT class to "cash" in on dots during boss transitions or rework how dots work on bosses by pausing debuff timers when a transition occurs. But honestly, the latter solution is ripe for unintended side effects.
Oh man, as someone who’s been maining the job since 2.x I should’ve known to expect an hour+ long summoner video xD
Am I the only one that wishes that instead of homogenizing everything they just kept the fast pace nuanced aggressiveness of heavensward and stormblood like I really digged that summons used skills on their own accord (stormblood) but if u really wanted efficient dmg you'd manually proc certain skills
"80% falloff after the 4th enemy" is something pvp attacks ought to have
At least in frontlines, i agree.
Get double down'd
I can just FEEL the mania growing in this video.
i don't really feel like i'm doing any kind of summoning with the new smn. i mean it's the same ~600 potency 5y aoe no matter what you press. it's funny how people hate on old smn egis but ifrit, garuda and titan were all used for different situations... and you felt like you really had a repertoire of different beings to call upon. even though you mostly used ifrit, then garuda for aoe and very rarely titan for prog, that was still a more flavorful smn
the 'one-use summon' style translates very badly to ffxiv, as this game has an extreme fear of having any uniqueness among jobs, unlike traditional ff games where different jobs can have vastly different capabilities and quirks. things that i associate with 'one-use summon' style ff smn, such as enormous aoes, high cost in mp, action points or other resources, or ability to exploit elemental weaknesses of multiple enemies simply do not exist here because of how rigidly jobs must follow a template in this game
now you just have red gravity, green gravity and yellow gravity
Quantity vs quality
New Summoner does a lot of "summoning", but they're all basically the same. They may as well just be Ruin 4 with a new animation.
Old Summoner actually had to use the right summon for the job, like a summoner actually would do. Not just throwing everything at the wall but smartly using the right tool for the job. It was better even with the less interesting animations.
I wish we still kept the actual choice between summons still. Like you’d summon Bahamut/Phoenix and then you’d go and summon Ifrit, Titan or Garuda and that would completely change how you’re spells and astral flows works. Ifrit would be the strongest but work like a pseudo-Black mage with strength buffs, Garuda the weakest with an Aoe focus with its spells working like a pseudo-ranged Dps and Titan a middle of the road with standard cast times and defense buffs.
these videos are always so interesting especially for an endwalker player like me, i started in 6.1 so this is all exciting news! can't wait to see the black mage episode, one of my favorite jobs as of late.
Going through the video it got me thinking for 7.0 we should have a DoT Caster Class as a new class which takes inspiration from summoners dots but focuses on dots and not summoning. Heck maybe the class name will be Warlock.
I was thinking a Void Mage could work for this concept. You use dark magics to cause damage over time, and you can summon Voidsent with a resource gained from DoTs. The minions complement the DoTs, but the DoTs are the center focus kinda deal.
The devs would never add a new job with more DoTs. If anything, you can just expect it to be a "caster" that's Reaper except even slower, even less going on, and less utility too because they don't have to pay the nonexistent melee tax.
@@trustytrest except they very well may add DoT. At one point, there was a "devs will never care about PvP" discussion, and yet that did change. So its hard to tell. Time shifts perspectives, and what may have been fact at one point eventually becomes false.
Eventually, they will hit a point where the obvious upset at simplification will force them to shift focus. This can happen starting next expac, due to the upset at the current raiding trends that many have spoken up about disliking, or it may take a few expansions to develop. But one thing that MMOs tend to show is the games not only will transform over time, theres no avoiding that they will. Its the nature of the genre.
I have a boatload of memories of losing tanks in dungeons and whipping out Topaz/Titan to do the job. And of course Titan tanking Ramuh ex to bypass orbs. I get why they eventually made pets invincible and untargettable (truly a blessing, resummoning/placing pets was a pain) but I also miss the concept of a tank pet. I was also a big fan of the dot based gameplay (was a former affliction warlock back in TBC days) and hope they reintroduce another dot-class in the future as Bard barely fills in this niche at present.
I'll always lament over Carbuncle's loss of being an actual 'pet' versus being a shiny minion.. I mean I know why it's all been changed and all just.. I dunno. I miss it.
I started playing FFXIV because I loved how Summoner worked as an actual pet class in the past. the Endwalker rework made me so sad I quit the game for like 6 months after finishing the MSQ. I just want my job back, not Gem-Mage.
Im smoking Hopium for a Void Mage as a DoT focused gameplay loop.
Summoner now is actually Summoner though... Why does everyone literally hate it? I'll never know I guess, but the dot management was so annoying, I'm glad its gone, but that's just me.
@@dragumkirisute1998 You are correct in it being like a normal FF summoner, but I think a lot of people, myself included, liked the pet management and having a pet that fights along side you. its a clash in people who want a FF "Summoner" and people who just want a pet job.
@@dragumkirisute1998 few reasons:
1) Pet classes in MMOs require having the pet put and managing it. Beastmastery from woW is one example, but ff11 actually did this as well, where you summon them for a while, they do their stuff, and then you cycle to summon a new one. They were highly intractable and arguably the class that set the theme for many other games.
2) Old SMN was a DOT mage and many people liked that aspect a lot. They dont have a replacement in game currently, so naturally people will be disappointed. The closest to a DoT class now is BRD, where the dots dont do much and require 1 button to maintain.
3) SMN is considered extremely basic...because it is. The level 90 kit feels more like a level 70 kit to many, and it feels like its missing vital options. The theme is a homerun, but the gameplay loop is more questionable, as there is little difference between learning the class and mastering it, in all honesty. So for a lot, its about the class feeling "incomplete".
A key to remembering the difference is ShB SMN was the transition away from doT and embracing the Summon fantasy fully. So the EW rework makes sense. That doesnt mean a whole, standard-for-the-genre role isnt missing. DoT mages is a part of MMOs and Final Fantasy is currently missing one. Thats why i hope they focus on keeping SMN the way it is now, just build upon what it has, but make a new caster to fill in the DoT fantasy. Void Mage could work wonders in that direction.
There were infact Potion of X back then, increasing X stat to a max of 16.
Shb summoner was so much fun imo i like the way bahamut works now but i really miss tri-disaster and bane. It was sooooo much fun being in a dungeon and seeing all of the dot procs show up on all of the enemies
I started playing in 5.5 before Endwalker came out like months later, Its interesting to see what abilities were available for my Main SMN back then.
My micromanaging ass loved 2.x smn
for real
I MISS OLD TRIDISASTER
No wonder this video is and will probably be the longest video in this series since they got reworked often
Summoner felt like a new job every time an expansion came around. It took them a long time to find its identity.
i like the big summons in EW but i miss my dots
i remember i used to be so hyped about ew rework.
now i just miss stormblood's smn soooo much
I am very excited to see how my smoke mage concept holds up. Because it is made to replace the old summoner.
@Mrhappy, current SMNs rotation (primal order) depends on your team comp (2 or more people with 15 sec raid buffs = Garuda 1st) and sometimes mixing things around by using Ifrit first when you can stand still so you have Garuda+Swiftcast Slipstream and Titan available for mobility for full uptime.
So I wanted to make mention of a few things specifically for Stormblood Summoner as a few things were missed when Mr. Happy went over it. From 4.2 onward Ruin III was your go to button to push, the potency being reduced was not SE trying to stop summoners from using it outside of Dreadwyrm trance though they were trying too in 4.0 and 4.1. Reason it became your filler is that in 4.2 they made it cost the same as Ruin I and did more potency then it. Hell I think in 4.2 Ruin I upgrades to Ruin III. Mr. Happy also had slight confusion about what Radiant Shield did. It did not give the person you give Radiant shield a 2% damage taken up. Basically, if the boss hit someone with Radiant Shield, the boss would get the 2% Physical damage taken, and since parties usually did solo caster Ifrit was your go to summon as you buff the entire party except yourself and the Healers.
An interesting tidbit about role actions for summoner, you were hard lock to four role actions because of how Addle interacted with Bahamut, so most of the time you're forced to take Addle, Lucid, Swift Cast, and Diversion. You only had one role action slot to fill because Addle was that important for getting more out of Bahamut. So you couldn't take even look at Apoc if your healers wanted more Mana out of you. Though I ignored my healers and took Erase to get orange healing for free :)
One last thing I wanted to mention was with Dreadwyrm Trance was that if I recall correctly you were only allowed to do like one or two Ruin III's in them and then had to spam Ruin II because if you didn't you would not get all of your Ogcds off for Bahamut to Wyrmwave off of them.
Summoner was a pretty wacky job to play during Stormblood but it was my favorite version of Summoner to play until 6.X Summoner came along. If I'm wrong about anything I'm sorry it's been awhile since I've had to last think about Stormblood summoner lmao.
One big complaint a lot of people had about Stormblood summoner was that Ruin 4 was a random proc, but I actually always liked that because it was a nice surprise getting to cast it and seeing the cool animation lol. I do like the way it works currently for Endwalker though; again, it’s a nice little reward for using Energy Drain that you get to use every minute.
Definitely after going through every expansion you see why there's a complaint of the job being too easy now.
the OG stream clips! mannnnn thats awesome you have that stuff still
This is a great video concept ! I'm so happy to have a little throwback at the good ol times :)
They need to combine DoT SMN with the new flashy Endwalker version of SMN. Cover an enemy in DoTs AND summon the full blown primals
Or just use the "DoT" to do a new class like they already did in the past. They removed "rng based" skills from the MCH to create the DCN.
i just wanted to add that in the expansions prior to Endwalker, SMN would suffer from multiple personality disorder. not only did its playstyle change with each expansion, it would also be drastically different at each level cap within the same expansion. so like.. in stormblood you could summon bahamut out and all, but if you did DR:MSQ or something, suddenly you were DoT mage again.
i love how they've redesigned it so the core rotation is consistent from the very beginning. its also good to finally be able to summon actual primals because thats what summoners in FF do, but i will say nothing has ever _felt_ quite as satisfying as *dreadwyrm trance death flares in HW
Expanding on the Ifrit and Titan damage calculations. They dealt blunt damage (with Garuda dealing magic) in ARR which could be buffed by Monk’s dragon kick. So if a monk was in your party you could use Ifrit instead of Garuda who was often the go-to pet during the latter half of ARR. By HW all pets were adjusted to do magic damage, taking away that synergy with Monk.
Would love to see 7.0 SMN just add Ramuh/Leviathan/Shiva summons that you can use post-Phoenix
Right there with ya. That’s my biggest hope for us SMN mains in 7.0
It was so satisfying finally mastering summoner back in the day - would eventually love some kind of Anima phase that was all about dots lol, idk I just miss working them in to the rotation 😅
I spent the final days of SB casting sad shadowflares in limsa over and over again. I miss that skill more than any other in the game.
About the Carbuncle does now is stare at you like a lobotomized idiot while you’re in combat… meanwhile, even with re-writes, the Arcanist 10 and 15 Class Quests still lay heavily into the “summon Topaz to shield you!” thing, even though it’s no longer a Tank or Shield Caster and isn’t even a “minion” technically until level 50 and you unlock the glamour options. At the very least, he should still do a ranged auto-attack (ironically, like my GC Squadron Arcanist still does, along with certain other missed abilities) and you be able to choose between single hit or AoE, so at least he’s useful for something other than throwing a shield on you (only when he’s around) or letting you “summon” other things (to which, he goes away) and letting you do most of your own attacks (which frankly, since they’re coming from you and not him, he technically isn’t even needed to be there, but they made it so you can’t use them unless he is which frankly makes no sense… I can see “you summon Titan through your Carbuncle”, but it still replaces him for that time…) …so, I’m not a fan of Carbuncle being reduced to mascot status more or less, at least let him be your ranged auto-attack instead of you having to close in to Book-Bonk range… after all, Bard, Dancer, and Machinist have a ranged auto-attack (but I do see the issue, since Black Mage, White Mage, Sage, and Scholar have the same melee auto-attack restriction and would be unfair if Summoner was the only one to have a ranged auto-attack outside of the “Physical” ranged, which is why they have it). But hey, pipe dreaming. It would also be fun if at the least at Level 90 you could have Shiva-Egi, Rhamu-Egi, and Leviathan-Egi as Carbuncle Glamours, or even a white or purple (Amethyst) Carbuncle just to round out the colors (and I know my friend who mains Summoner wishes she could have a purple carbuncle to match her outfit). After all, SPOILER AHEAD all the primals come to your aid in reaching the edge of the universe, and is why you can “full summon” at level 90 and your previous glamours on the three of them are rendered null and void (to my knowledge, though I’m yet to reach 90 myself so I could be VERY wrong) since you can’t make full size Titan or the others come out as Egi or Carbuncles, only level 16-88 content (89 dungeon caps you at 90)… so, it would be nice! Or a Phoenix-Egi glamour, or a Demi-Bahamut-Egi glamour… So many possibilities, as you said, Mr. Happy. I just hope they at least give us more glamour options, even if you have to be 90 to do it!
loved this comment, but hope the SPOILER AHEAD tag was at the top. it loses effectiveness when the eye is already at that spoiler sentence reading 30 lines in.
Here’s my 2 cents about the knock back. I remember it being used in some raid turn where it would bind a party member in place, then a monster would spawn and walk towards the bound player, if it reached them I think they would die? But summoner could slow the mob and knock it back, making hitting that particular dps check easier.
It was the Mirrorknight in Turn 5.
If you think that this version of SMN is going to get more dynamic in 7.0 is your high on copium.
Really think about it here, if they add the three missing primals they will be 1:1 model/vfx replacements.
- Leviathan for example is known in his fights to "Dash" across the arena, as well as "Slam/Smash" into it. This lines up with Ifrit's Crimson Cyclone and Crimson Strike.
- Ramuh "Leaves Behind" an orb "After an AoE", fitting Garuda's Slipsteam, and lighting is known to be quick fitting the insta-casts.
- Shiva "Alternates" between sword and magic stances, just like the player "Alternates" pressing gemshine and astral flow.
These "Summons" will be learned at 92, 94, and 98. Not only that they will swap out ever Phoenix/Bahamut summon. Level 96 will be the obligatory damage buff Trait, and level 100 will be a Trait that requires the summoner to summon each primal in succession to upgrade bahamut which may grant a use of an extra button.
To me the job is dead boring and no longer fun to play, spamming the same Gemshine over and over again is not good gameplay, yes there was Ruin spam, but That monotony was broken up with the aid of Egi-Assults and the fact that Ruins were Casts meaning you did not really have to spam press. I did try to give the change a go at it, but I found the gameplay boring and was actually injuring my thumb on controller due to the Gemshine spamming. I Really do not think it was right to uproot a job that some players were enjoying and leave them with no alternative option of similar gameplay. I am really hoping that the next job is a caster as the current pool is down to just Red Mage and Black Mage (Summoner is not a caster, it's a physical range. Claiming it to be caster would be the same as saying Samurai is a caster and not a melee due to Iaijutsu casts). And while a DoT mage would be great, I would rather have the gameplay of the job be top priority in its design unlike current summoner.
Ruin upgraded into Ruin III at some point mid-Stormblood, probably early cuz I got my start in 4.1 and I always remember it being there.
Honestly I really miss the DoT SMN, the new endwalker SMN is flashy but its not the class I spent 3 years playing and loving and it feels kind of "eh" now
Damn, I really do miss what SMN was before. Yes, you do summon more, but at the cost of impact. You no longer build up to summon, I mean the first GCD of your opener is just Summon Bahamut. You just press Astral Impulse 7 times and that's it, no interaction outside of hitting Ahk Morn once. You no longer manage and control these summons, you just throw them out for high potency and then they just jump away.
But I feel like the devs have opened Pandora's box; they've made the job so painfully strict and rigid that adding more mechs will be intrusive on the rotation. Honestly, we need a rework in 7.0, that incorporates aspects of the job prior to 6.X. But considering this game's current trajectory of stripping job mechanics to fit into the 2min meta and action/ button bloat, this is highly unlikely.
They implemented Ruin II for Titan Extreme because Summoners couldn’t get off Ruin I in time in between Titans attacks. Instant cast with higher cost for manna. Was directly implemented for the Trials for their first Fan Fest/needed to create it also not to replace Ruin I in regular PVE play. Was literally first introduced cause Titan was such an OP BOSS! 😂
Just allow carby to auto attack and we're golden.
The squadron arcanists still use Shadow Flare. In fact, the squadron NPCs all use the old skill sets for some reason and I got the suspicion that's why they were abandoned in favor of Duty Support. Spaghetti code makes it impossible to change to the new skills without breaking stuff.
This but also you can see that the trust uses old skills too. I think the healer in kitisis uses aero 3
@@CleopatraKing that one might be in purpose considering they're in the past ;D
@@CleopatraKing Ah, then it still applies to all NPCs. Mobs in the open world also use old skills sometimes, but it's not as noticeable, since they tend to have very limited skill sets.
EDIT: Added a bigger post to talk about my thoughts on SMN after the Sustain change mention.
You forgot one little thing about SMN in Heavensward. Sustain was no longer a spell that healed your pet by sacrificing a portion of your HP. It was changed into a HoT that healed 8% every tick 10 times, meaning it would heal the pet for a total of 80% HP. It made the self-sustainability of SMNs during solo stuff or during emergency moments in dungeons much better not to mention it removed a huge issue for SMNs to keep their pets alive in raid content since they had an easy 'fire and forget' button for keeping their pet alive.
Also I'd like to add my opinions as someone that basically has been a SMN main from the beginning since I joined in the early days of Heavensward.
HW SMN was quite interesting and it was really neat having the ability to have a tank pet around that could be very handy in various moments. It was indeed pretty much a DoT Mage back then with having to use Contagion with Tri-Disaster during DWT. Garuda was indeed the king of all 3 pets to use at the time with Titan usually being for solo stuff or emergency moments.
SB SMN was quite fun just with the fact we actually had a actual 'summon' of sort in the form of Demi-Bahamut. The DoT Mage trend was still very much prevalent in that expansion. Though one of the bigger issues in HW and in SB was the heavy risk of massively messing up the rotation if you missed getting an Aethertrail due to a Fester missing the DoTs on the boss. As you mentioned during the video, the damage calculation between physical and magical damage back then made Garuda remain among the top spot for the pet to use in general. Titan still retained somewhat of a place as a tank pet...however that place was heavily threatened by the fact that while Titan can build up aggro rather okay, he cannot taunt...which is a huge thing to keep in mind since when you summoned Bahamut, he would despawned, losing all his built aggro on your target which only meant that when he respawned after Bahamut left, he could no longer really tank for you since he couldn't really catch up to your now-higher amount of aggro that you had, even when using Diversion and Lucid Dreaming.
For ShB SMN, the early days of ShB retained that 'Fester-like' aspect due to how you needed your DoTs to be on the target so that your Ruin spells would do proper damage, however DoT management did become a bit easier thanks to Tri-Disaster getting many reset opportunities during a boss fight. During a SMN rotation in ShB, you'd basically have to refresh your DoTs manually only once in the 2 min rotation window. The rest of the time your DoTs were refreshed using Tri-Disaster. But missing the DoTs somewhat still sucked badly.
But the major pet changes made it so that the whole pet tank aspect was no more which made some older content a bit harder to solo as SMN. Another detail about the pets was that if you used Egi-Assault 1 with Titan out, you would not get a Ruin 4 stack since the only way to proc the stack was from a successful attack. That meant that using Titan actually gimped your overall DPS vs Garuda and Ifrit. However the pet changes brought forth the rise of Ifrit as the primary damage pet for SMNs in ShB. Due to how you basically had to spam the Egi-Assaults in your rotation, Garuda's Slipstream would not work well in that situation.
The other really notable thing was the massive APM requirements to play SMN at its best.
Heck, early ShB SMN even caused some issues during the Eden's Gate Savage World First race with at least one group's caster switching from SMN to BLM because his fingers were hurting too much due to the crazy piano opener SMNs had.
Fortunately in the major patches following ShB's release, SMN got some much appreciated tweaks that made the job a complex yet impressive powerhouse of a job, capable of leaving both BLM and RDM in the dust.
And then there's the big rework that SMN got with Endwalker. I'll be honest, I LOVE the change even if it means that SMN lost its no1 caster DPS spot it had in ShB alongside losing its DoT Mage identity. The job now actually feels like you're playing a classic FF Summoner, which is a rather important thing since every job in FF14 is well adjusted to make you feel like you're probably playing something matching the identity of the FF job in question.
Yes, the job is overall a lot easier to play than the crazy thing it was in ShB, but if you're observant, you'll realize that there's moment where you can do some clever adjusting in fights to make your DPS better in that specific fight. In other words, SMN now has a bit of that BLM-esque fight-knowledge requirement to optimize its rotation.
I really do hope we get to use the other 3 main classic Summons in the next expansion as it could indeed be a great buildup on the new SMN foundation that the job has with Endwalker.
I'm relearning Summoner, since all my buttons are unable to be used, by replaying the class quests, and I don't like that the pet doesn't have an auto attack anymore.
The people who do balance and reworks HATE Dots it feels like
I hope in Dawntrail we simply get more summons. The job quest never really went into detail why we couldn’t summon Ramuh. They just kinda shrugged and went “Huh, that’s weird, oh look an Ascian!” So I’d like them to just add Ramuh, Leviathan, and Shiva. Give Ysayle some new love. Lol
But yeah, maybe set it up so you do TGI during after Bahamut, and the other three after Phoenix.
56:56 I miss the 1 2 combo from phoenix, that was one of the main things that kind of ruined summoner for me in Endwalker. When they announced the rework, I was praying that Bahamut was going to get the 1 2 combo as well, but sadly phoenix lost it instead.
You forgot to mentioned how PUNISHING SMN in HW if you missed Bane or Fester
Shadowbringers SMN was the most fun to me. Endwalker is a step down to me.
I do wish Carby had some kind of attack, though. Just an instant-cast Ruin (like SCH's Ruin 2) that wouldn't disrupt anything else would be a nice change.
I miss my DoTs and the fact that they were a requirement for the Fester.. And the hard rotation from HW.. ;-; I loved this expension because SMN was SUCH a good job ! I'm still loyal to it to this day but damn.. The only thing making me keep it as a main is just my love for Bahamut lmao !! Stil love FFXIV ♥
I see a pot of people unhappy with the whole one attack summon thing, heres my two cents
For for non demi summons have them stay until you used all your ruby rites and have the attack done by the summon instead, an almost purely cosmetic change but i think it would help with the one attack problem. You could even have egis summoned alongside carbuncles to make it purely visual after all i think modern pc's can handle two pets
Current summoner funnies:
Phoenix and Bahamut have the same potency totals for their attacks, with the Gcd's of Phoenix dealing enough damage to make up for its lack of deathflare.
The job is fun but I refuse to touch it in raids because I will fall asleep if I do.
It was fun when Phoenix had a combo you can press back and forth along with two revelations.
@@Wolfman818 That did sound interesting, and less sleep inducing that current "press 1, 6 times"
Man I really fucking miss old DoT summoner and old old school summon when it was really a pet job
Honestly I've loved every single iteration of summoner I've played, even if EW is completely different from its previous iterations. I did like having the pet doing stuff all the time but it was always frustrating to get ghosted on top of having to manage all the DoTs. Funnily enough, there's a huge number of people who don't actually play it that complain about the DoT loss. Current SMN is indeed less busy but I like the design overall, just wish its utility was something one could actually use when we want (e.g. the Phoenix regen being like Magick Barrier instead of tied to our burst window, Ifrit gap closer being usable later instead of within 2-4 GCDs). I don't mind the potency loss but I would like it to be justified more other than >you get to move around< because let me tell you, between double/triple/swift cast, acceleration, foul, and sharpcast, mobility in casters has never been less of an issue.
SMN, the never ending problem child. I'm hoping in 7.0 they add a lot, they fixed the job fantasy visually but made it super weak with basically the same rotation as healers but without actually needing to heal to make it fun. And I might cry if we get to 7.0 and Carby still doesn't even auto attack or something other than shield.
Genuinely, I feel like they screwed up in ARR, SMN really should be the stationary nuke, not BLM, while BLM should have been the DoT and pew pew chain spell slinger, bio is usually a BLM spell in like every other game too.
The squadron arcanists still have Shadowflare. I'd give my left kupo nut to have it back.
Really hope level 100 Summoner brings a Demi-Alexander that casts Judgement Protocol when Enkindled
Debuff limit was 30 until a patch that made it 60, with 30 displayed.
@Mrhappy1227 I think that for the Radiant Shield in Stormblood, it was referring to the target of the damage reflection, not the target of the shield, which (though my recollection is fuzzy) I believe was an AoE buff to everyone near Ifrit. Heck I think it was AoE back in ARR. But yeah, it didn't make your allies take more damage, which is probably why you felt confused reading it, it was just poorly written there. I mained Summoner through Shadowbringers, so. I should remember these better, but as your video shows, things changed so often it's hard to keep track.
*Edit*
Just checked an old guide. Looks like the AoE Radiant Shield was a 3.0 addition, so my fuzzy ARR memories are wrong, which tracks with how fuzzy they are.
Gosh I almost wish the Endwalker rework didn't happen. Of course it's a better class in general now for most people. But I am a massive fan of Dot classes. Affliction warlock my favorite in WoW is my favorite mmo class of all time. I really miss the dot emphasis that summoner used to have. The old fester is very similar to warlock in WoW and I loved it, I just find abilities that increase in damage with each dot super appealing gameplay, I love dot management and being rewarded for good dot management. FFXIV needs a dot class, something severely lacking since the Smn rework.
Seeing how summons used to play prior to endwalker, I kinda wish what they had done was give a new attack skill for the summons that briefly turns the egi into ifrit/garuda/titan for the duration of the attack.
I misss Shadow flare . I will be back for the Sch video with this same opinion.
Played ACN right up to unlocking SMN during my first foray into XIV between 3.0 and 3.2, and then didn't play again until last year(aside from like one day in 2019)
So this'll be fun. New Summoner feels way more Summoner-y but I still miss the DoTs!
I originally played ACN with the intent for SCH back in... I don't quite remember, stormblood? Back when the pets were still their own things.
I specifically remember though, when it came time to swap to SCH, I felt so sad because it meant I couldn't have carbuncle anymore. It genuinely felt like saying goodbye to a friend that'd been by my side through so much hardship.
I lived all of this, well maybe not "all" I only joined the game in 2.5, but I've been maining SMN since day 1 and still do.
The job was somethig else, eventually almost every patch you'd just play a little differently, it was wild. I think I had the most fun with HW summoner overall tho I do not hate EW summoner, for once not having to read 30+ page documents detailing your optimal playstyle, now you just figure out in what order do you summon your primals, I don't have to swap summons for AoE/Single target, I don't have to battle for dot spots in Alliance Raids (honestly that was the worst, not applying fast enoug and seeing that yep, indeed, you don't see your dots on the boss and knowing your DPS will be absolutely horendous for it ugh).
But still, being able to play the job back then competently felt like an accomplishment, since EW, it's really braindead, no pride in "playing well" anymore. But that's fine
This job was why I fell in love with the game, I was captured and mesmerised by how the job functioned in ARR, HW, and Stormblood. But sadly, after the rework in Shadowbringer and Endwalker, I can't stomach it anymore and by extension the entire game.
This video is going to make me very sad.
honestly most of my issues with new summoner fall down on down sync. Aethercharge not having any visible change to normal ruin and just having a count down to start the summoning cycle. Aethercharge not being able to be used to initiate combat like bahamut/phoenix can just feels bad.
Also either add some kind of auto attack back to carbuncle or just remove it at this point. Carbuncle is a glorified minion that actually punishes you for dying considering it isnt instantcast to summon anymore and half of your kit doesnt work with it not summoned. god help you if you have to ride out some time in transcendence before resummoning it losing even more gcds.
I hope you'll consider SCH for the next retrospective, while all the SMN details are still fresh in your mind for comparisons.
I think Shadowbringers just completely ruined Scholar; just look at all those fun skills both SCH and SMN lost...
While I'm glad the pets don't die so easily now, every single other change just added frustration (e.g. the Aetherflow change) or removed all the fun from the job...
Fester was said so much I started thinking about Fester from the Addams family…
'big flashy attack that is basically just a spell' oh so you mean summoners throughout all of final fantasy as a franchise
i hope the dot mage fans eventually get what they want, maybe a necro, but summoner was not that
Oh my, Summoner, my first main. I miss the old Summoner, Bio, Bio 2, Miasma, Bane, and Shadow Flare. Everything melts. Those where the good ole days. The class has changed so much over the years that I just gave up. Also, the whole thing of needing to pay to re-roll your stats if you wanted to switch between Summoner and Scholar, damn near made me quit the game.
Im huffing my copium and hoping the next caster will bring back the old SMN gameplay in a package that makes sense. Like a Void Mage.
Im gonna get high off this hopium.
I remember seeing a video of an 8 SMN party taking down Titan hard mode. Titan just melted.
Really hoping for leviathan, shiva, and ramuh for 7.0. Hopefully it makes the rotation slightly more interesting.
I mainly just wish theyd let carbuncle attack again. I hate seeing him just stand there. In 6.0 i was fine with it because he had two abilities but now he only has the shield. Might as well just take him away completely and just leave him as the pre-egi summons.
Id also like if they found a way to allow energy drain/siphon + fester/painflare to be connected to the rest of the tool kit in some way instead of just being tacked on. I miss the satisfaction of that potency boost from landing on enemies i had dotted. Yeah i know we get the same total potency to that3 now but its the samurai kaiten issue all over again, innit.
In a perfect world, to me, smn would have retained its dots AND got the new version of the summons. And carbuncle would either still attack or have more to do than a shield and being a sentient pokeball.
Smn was my main until endwalker. And while i enjoyed new smn at first, once the excitement of having big boiz wore off, it has since become the job i play the least out of all 20. Which makes me sad. At least the plot of EW gave my headcanon plenty of reasons to justify my SMN main retiring the primals and picking up other fighting styles.
Egi-Ivy need your attention
They gonna be summonest
Honestly, just bring back the Egi-Assault(s) as something to have during the Garuda/Ifrit/Titan part of your rotation so that way you still feel like you're attacking along side your summon. Have it so Carby's charged up after each of the summons and ready to blast.
Also Summoner's lv100 should just be chaining back to back Titan summons. Seeing things is overrated anyway.
I miss AOE DOTs Summoner.