I don't think they'll control the used market. To do that, they would be strategically undercutting their dealers to drive them out of business, and only then increase their prices. This doesn't seem like a long term play; this is a short term, low effort cash grab. I don't think we need to worry.
@@sebg2086 you guys don’t get it. When sellers see that Fender is selling used for 30% off new. Plus tax, plus shipping, etc. Then sellers are going to match that price and the market will start to accept that price. Just like Fender selling used and controlling the market isn’t going to stop people from buying new. MANY buyers will think if used is only 25-30% off brand new then they will just buy brand new.
Phillip Mcknight talked about this in his most recent episode, the "certified preowned" is just all the returns that people sent back to Fender within the return window. They built way too many guitars to begin with and cant sell them all, now they have all this barely used B stock, and they have to offload it somehow. Just another middle finger to their longtime dealers lmao
One of our biggest stores here in Canada Long and McQuade had some "B stock" Fenders recently and the guitars were almost immaculate. And the prices were great. I don't see how this is a bad thing for the consumer. Are guitar players seriously complaining about having more options now? Maybe it's time to turn off the computer and start practicing your guitar guys.
@@Joe-mz6dc well if you watched this video to the end you'd see that fender's certified used prices are actually not that great. In fact, you may as well buy new. I'm not buying any guitars any time soon so I couldnt care less. The main issue people have is with fender screwing their dealers who have had their back for decades. Those dealers were already competing with fender direct online sales, and now they're competing on used inventory. I dont want to see more small shops close down
@@pat5882 but still typically a minority of costs (30% is typical). It does rather depend on industry and the level of automation, though. With greater use of CNC, guitar manufacturing wages percentage has probably fallen a fair bit over the last twenty years.
@@wbertie2604 good point. Add in the amount of various types of wood that Fender must purchase per year, the greater the amount in tons, I guess, the greater the discount. In high inflationary times, most raw materials prices are high regardless of discount for bulk purchase.
@@KennedyIvy This assumes the fallacy that corporations "compete" with each other instead of what actually happened, rampant collusion and regulatory capture 🤣
It’s brilliant business. And if consumers are willing to pay then good on them if consumers revoke because they feel like it’s a scam they’ll stop doing it. That’s the way the free market works.
@KennedyIvy No, it won't drive the prices down, it will drive them up. Why? Because "certified" gives Fender an excuse to charge more money than a typical used guitar from a third party. At first, it stands out and people might see the distinction between the quality control of fender certified vs other used guitars but what it actually does is give private sellers a higher price they can gravitate towards. Same with brick and mortar stores but those stores will likely start calling THEIR used guitars "certified", if they don't already, because a certification does not have a legal meaning outside of the entity doing the certification. "Certified" just means whatever the seller wants it to mean. It could mean mint condition with a full setup from a luthier or it could mean the guitar was dusted with a wet rag when it came in. Heck, you can even call your used equipment "certified used" in a private sell but it's certified by YOU. There's no legal license or certification YOU need to obtain because the value of your certification will speak for itself. This has happened in the used car market 50 years ago. "Certified pre-owned" is so common, people rarely decide to buy a car at a higher price just because it's "certified" because honestly, you don't really know what value that extra cost is giving you. What it does do though, is raise the used values of all the used products.
It's simple: they realized that there are still a lot of people willing to pay huge amount of money for something you can get for less, just because has "certified" word on it
I bet these crooked corporations can't stand your channel, but I love watching you call them on their bullsht. Keep up the good work brother, integrity is in short supply these days.
"1 year Limited waranty" LOL I didn't have warrenty on a brand spanking new american Ultra 2 with Missaligned parts straight out of the factory. Good luck claiming waranty on any of this.
It doesn’t matter. Phil McKnight had a damaged Strat that was sold as “no warranty” and the owner turned it in to Fender for warranty service. Fender had him put a new neck on that Strat, even though he told Fender it didn’t qualify. This was before the pandemic so maybe things are different now. It is always worth a shot to get service under warranty.
@@WilliamHaisch I tried several aproached even with help from a local dealer, no dice. I eventually had a local Luthier fill the original holes of the bridge and realign it. Replaced the pickguard because it didn't line up with the control panel, just a cosmetic issue that left a hole between the 2 but again €2000+ instrument. And the Missaligned neck pick-up I decided to have swapped out, now it's a EMG p/j set. I didn't want to spend so much money just to end up with basically a stock jazz bass. As much as I love it it still leaves a sour taste in my mouth. If i ever get another fender it will surely be nothing USA. Played some MIJ ones and they are simply better.
KDH always gets to the bottoms of these things. This program is even worse than I thought. Thanks for shedding light on it. Do they think we are all idiots or something?! I realized you can buy new for around the same price. I didn’t realize all the details you mentioned, though. I never thought I’d say this, but if you wanna waste your money, buy new! And if you wanna buy used (or new), buy from small shops and individual sellers who are struggling to make sales because they have to drop the prices to an all time low to compete. Thanks, KDHb 😎🎸🤘🏻
Factory seconds or B Stock guitars surely cant be sold by advertising to give a guitar a second third or even a fourth life when they havevt even had a life outside of the factory, isnt that false advertising? I thought that lying in adverts was illegal in most countries!!!
So Fender and Gibson have officially become "used car salesmen". They might want to have given some consideration to how most of the world regards "used car salesmen".
The problem is that none of the big brands are selling enough guitars to keep the doors open. Fender blew it when they started marketing to the fringe, and Gibson's overseas guitar Epiphone are better built for a 3rd of the price. For a player, it's all sound and dependability, tuning stability. I simply can not understand why these companies are simply not trying to build the best instrument they can.
Watched the Fender ad. My brain auto-translated it to: "Fender! We want our cut from the used market, but we are not the government so we can't tax it!"
No doubt. And after the massive upsurge in Guitar sales during covid that is even more so. That's why there is such a massive glut of used instruments on the market now. Suddenly all of those people don't want to be a guitar player anymore.
Legacy brands struggling for YOY revenue increases squeezing every last bit of profit from every corner they can scramble to find. If they could find a way to make it so only Fender/Gibson picks worked on their guitars they would do it in a heartbeat.
This all ties into the whole "Fender Authorized" signs on music shops and repair places, and as a builder and repair man I have looked into it (Ain't gonna do it!), and for the builder it means repairing whatever they send you, and guide people needing warranty repair to you, but also at their rates, using only their parts, so not to use any non Fender parts even if the customer wants let's say to upgrade to locking tuners, or using better bridge saddles... I would be under contract to a lower wage when working on their crap, to expect a shipment of a larger quantity of instruments all at once, working on a tight deadline for their stuff despite my own customers stuff, disappointing customers for telling them what they can and cannot get fixed, and what parts I can and cannot install... Now add to all that, they do not require me to be skilled to any measure, have the proper work space and tools... established only by merely signing a form that you agree, and if you are a total screw up, only then may they take away your "Authority" which they actually did to guitar center. So how does that sign all the repair shops claimed to be a must have, just because it gives prospects and customers a false sense of quality and security... all at my and the customers potential expense? It doesn't! Gibson and others have similar programs, and they only serve the corporation in the end, no one else, and this is just a new adage to it, and a new angle to middle man shit, and make money off of name recognition only!
Go on. I reported a scammer to Reverb. They did nothing. I tried again. I got robo mail saying they don't allow 2 reports for the same ad. They did allow the scammer to sell the guitar. 2 weeks later it was listed by the buyer. He wasn't happy.
Great video as always. If it helps Fender owns MIRC ( I believe they bought them last year) so MIRC refurbishing the guitars is technically Fender, kinda. I agree with you I can not see the value they are offering. Funny Side note. MIRC just bought Mighty Mite parts.
Thanks Phil. That’s very interesting. I wonder how long it’ll be before Fender no longer license headstock trademarks to Warmoth and just use Mighty Might
There's a musical instrument chain in the midwestern United States called Music Go Round. They're supposed to only sell used instruments. However, whenever I go there, there's a ton of instruments hanging on the wall that look new but are marked used. I've always wondered what the story was, and after watching this video, I did a quick search, and it does appear that Music Go Gound and MIRC have a relationship. It makes sense that these are all factory seconds and B stock, because if MIRC bought used guitars directly from players, they'd have to pay much closer to market value for them and then there's no profit in re-selling them, especially when you factor in refurbishing costs. Feels scammy all around; a factory second isn't "used," it's just damaged in some way.
Factory 2nds aren't necessarily damaged either. The word "damaged," has different implications than "below A-grade standard." A factory 2nd, (or B stock) can be as simple as a slight paint run in the finish, or a poorly placed fret marker on the side of the neck. The number of B stock guitars I've seen that I couldn't find why they were labeled as such (without asking) is quite a few. I love them, as they're usually great deals.
"Pre-owned" is THEE greatest euphemism in marketing history! Makes it sound like some service was rendered. Fender seems to be taking a cue from this with "certified". It seems the most they're are actually DOING is looking at the pictures, MAYBE checking the serial number and going "Yep".
The problem with Fender is that they've watered down their own classics to the point where they've long-since lost their exclusivity and unique credibility. Nobody gives a crap about what brand name is on the end of a Fender Telecaster these days when there are literally 65 models of it on their website but you can get a Jet or Harley Benton copy for a lot less, which will play and sound better. And it's even less so with a second hand one which Fender is overcharging you for. It just shows how clueless and desperate they are. When there were only a few models of each main Fender type, they had a 'this is the real deal' aura about them. It was a fragile advantage, but it was there. That's all gone now with all that player, standard, paranormal, american standard, classic player, vintera, squier, classic vibe, pawn shop, ad infinitum bunch of bollocks. And nobody else is to blame for that; they did it to themselves, shooting themselves up the arse with their idiotic marketing bullshit, weakening what was once a really strong brand identity. It's a situation made vastly worse in a world where everyone knows CNC cutting and a global market mean you can buy a very decent clone for not much over 100 quid; one which can easily be tarted up with another ton and a half and a bit of fettling to make it play and sound as good as any Fender, regardless of how much they charge for theirs, or what stupid name they are flogging it under this week. So nobody cares whether a guitar has Fender on the end of it any longer, because it doesn't mean it's the best any more; and has not meant that for a very long time. The same is true for Gibson too. Nobody with any sense covets those logos any more, they might as well go and piss all over Leo's grave.
Yup.. When I was young, only serious players had real Fenders. People would stare at a Strat all night and talk to you about it at gigs. It would even get you gigs! It was something to aspire to. These days, they're another guitar.
………..and many a good Gibson and Fender guitars that are 3-4 years old are for sale at less or a bit less than half of the new price. That’s what I have noticed just trolling FBMP.
If they put it through an ACTUAL upgrade process it would be worth it. Plek, for example. If they put everything through a cleaning, inspection, and new strings wirh *a Plek setup* with special attention paid to fret sprout and the neck in general - they could almost charge close to the original price and it would probably work. Without the benefit of getting time on the Plek, it's not worth it imho.
When private equity/venture capital buys ANY business they have the expectation of profits increasing by >20% every year. Pretty soon every business is expected to stack paper like a Ponzi scheme, which is INSANE.
More excellent, balanced stuff from KDH. The channel's so very reliable. Where else do you go if you want a reasonable opinion with no hyperbole, shouty delivey or gimmicks? You go to this man.
I love the "sometimes beating the average used price" in the ad. It is a used item though, and if I'm buying used then i'm price conscious and would rather get a guitar that beats the "average used guitar price"
The easiest way to stand against this kind of BS is simply not to buy. Again, thank you, KDH, for informing us. I own 2 FMIC products, a Tele and a Gretsch. I'm not one of those people who have to have (insert names here) on the headstock. If I like it, I don't care who makes it.
2:05 Apple's program for that is about as flawed as Fender's though if not worse. Apple doesn't have an official second hand market and never will because that goes against their idea of Apple devices being appliances you replace when something goes wrong. Though in practice, this will hurt gear collectors and scalpers, which means a better market for people that just want to buy guitars to use them instead of hanging them on the wall for a video backdrop or potential investment asset.
This is terrible for small guitar shops. Fender is taking away the opportunity that these shops had with MIRC and used guitars in general. It’s really disgusting
I started seeing guitars MIRC several years ago, and the serial number is supposed to be marked "USED." It's not pre-owned; it's a nice marketing spin on refurbished guitars. There is no telling what was repaired on them and what the damage was. Fender is not disclosing this. This needs more investigation from KDH.
Nailed it with the MIRC comment because I came here to say these guitars are factory seconds, returns and overstock. These guitars are a combination of dealer returns due to poor quality, direct to consumer returns from Fender's website sales, and overstock for failed launches. They get refurbed by MIRC which Fender has some ownership in and Fender competes with the dealer base and private sellers.
Bad idea . There are people who buy only new guitars (we all need them on the 2nd hand market !! ) . Now Fender decided to make them think that a used guitar can be as good as the new one... and that only a naive person would pay more for a new guitar. I believe the only good thing about this is - lower taxation on "used" guitars and usually - no warranty . The next for Fender will be - we send you parts , you assemble the guitar .
Lots of stores double list on reverb, 1 guitar listed as used and new. Technically if the retailer opens the box it can be sold as used. Big box stores do this. They then chargeback the guitar to Fender as 'returned'. Fender does not want the guitar back so they give it to the retailer for cost and the inventory is back logged to their shipping schedule for that store. Fender Authorized dealers are allowed to do this because they are subscribed to a continuous minimum number of guitars they have to buy from Fender. If folks actually knew what Fender charges a retailer for a guitar compared to how much you actually pay retail, they would be pissed.
I think we should start giving the power and wealth to the actual factories (for squier, made in mexico, harley benton, sire, etc.), producing the guitars. At some point people should be educated/informed enough that some famous brands don't do that much that justifies their prices. The actual work is done at the factory. The knowledge how to build instruments is widely spread and factories will be able to gain a reputation for their luthiers if they do exceptional work.
Lots of Asian contract factories have had their own brands for decades. FGN, Peerless, etc. The Fender factory in Mexico only makes FMIC products, unlike the contract factories.
I owned a very successful guitar store in the 1990s in the Philadelphia area. I watched the industry begin to change from a relatively small and friendly industry into something else altogether. It was like the companies hired business school graduates who knew nothing about guitars or players. Taylor led the charge when they decided they had to compete with Martin for the owner's gratification. Where they were protecting their smaller, local dealers, that all ended when Bob Taylor made CnC work on wood. Guitars changed and the market changed. I sold the store in 2000 at the height of its popularity. I was making good money but no longer enjoyed the business. It was so nice for a while but everything eventually falls apart. I'm so glad I sold it. There is no way I could compete in today's environment of fancy websites and so on.
Getting any guitar mfg to actually honor their warranty is a joke. They will all say flat out if the issue doesn’t affect playability then they’re not gonna do anything. I bought a brand new ESP Eclipse II years ago, from an authorized dealer, and within a couple months there was a finish crack in the neck joint area. I didn’t even hang it on a wall hanger or anything, it stayed in the case when I wasn’t using it. The president of ESP America (Matt something) emailed me directly and told me to go fuck myself.
Rear wheel bearing collapsed on my harley on the motorway after they fitted the wrong one.uk harley" head guy" said he had a fireblade that happened toAs if it was nothing go.so fuck off indeed.😅
If their guitars are so good, buying one secondhand should not require any ‘professional inspection’, especially as guitars are subjective only to the buyer. I remember ‘inspecting’ new Strats in Guitar Center, looking for ones with neck screwed straight into the socket! If it is second hand and broken or damaged, the price drops more. The problem for Fender & Gibson is that there is little technological advancement in guitars . The cost is in the labor and it is far less in Asian factories. 20 years ago the Asian finishing wasn’t that good but, times have changed and Fender / Gibson haven’t. This certified pre owned happens in the motor trade and the car ends up priced at just below the new price and well above the fair secondhand market.
I honestly completely agree mate I think you are right with what fenders actual intention is, they want to monopolise the pre owned section on reverb of their instruments not only to keep charging more than they should for pre owned but basically making it so you “may as well” get a brand new one because the saving will not be nearly as significant as if you got an actual deal from someone just selling their fender
Oh boy MIRC. When I worked at an MGR MIRC would consistently send us completely unsellable guitars with super sharp fret ends, unleveled frets, or completely borked wiring. What a joke.
So, they sell their seconds under the guise of a "goal post moved" description, now defined as pre-owned, AND they lay off most of their quality control staff to save more money, because they have a new market that they can sell those sub par guitars in. Got it.
Just recently a few months ago I bought a Fender Tele Professional used from Reverb. This guitar lists for $2500 + new in Canada. This one is a 2018 I bought for $1500. I'm very happy with this guitar it plays brilliantly. Fender execs need to learn a few things. The year a guitar was made isn't an issue to a used buyer. They aren't cars. As well as the fact they don't really change that much year to year if they even change at all. 2018 --- 2024... meh.... I would not have paid 2 or 300 more for this guitar if it was listed by Fender as pre owned. Which I suspect is the game they playing. They also need to learn most musicians that buy guitars in the used market are seasoned players that are fully capable of set up and care of a guitar. New students tend to buy from stores new. Being isolated to Reverb where seasoned players shop and know better. Hopefully its a short lived experiment. Last time I was on their Reverb page they didn't even have any stock
Seriously wonder about the future of the instrument. Having mostly young teens as students, I can honestly say most don’t practice and waste a lot of their parents money to go over the same concepts instead of putting in the time to advance. It makes me feel old, but into the modern day era of instant gratification, guitar is something that takes a lot of time and effort to get good at, and a lot of kids just give up on it. I would like seeing the cost of guitars come down, as now I pretty much only purchase second hand to save some money. I enjoy your videos. All the best
Im on a lot looking for gear so when I saw the fender marketing I checked the prices and started checking the resellers and found what you pointed out. I love the resellers because the minute you get a new guitar in your hand it's used. The ones I use have good return policies and I've never had a lot of luck trying to use any warranty. Hopefully this gets out to new guitar players and shoppers.
I'm not sure there is any way to do something about that. This happens in all hobbies. People buy the gear required to do said hobby then sell it when they don't continue with it.
You can find better deals on recently discontinued models. Place I shop blows out discontinued stuff for like 10 points over cost just to make room. Brand new, with warranty, usually sub $1000. Basically, as soon as Fender discontinues them, they stop enforcing IMAP, and this place unloads them cheap.
I suppose if there is one good point, it makes it easier for someone buying a used Fender to be sure their new guitar is real, but it's hardly a great value proposition. What we have to remember is that not everybody is an expert and you see people getting burned on counterfeir guitars all the time. A manufacturer giving that reassurance could be a great thing, but only if the price difference is enough to make it worth doing. At this point, it would make more sense to just buy a new one, or maybe that's what they want.
On its face, it sounds like a great deal because fakes have become a big problem in the used guitar market. Especially since there are companies in China that will build EVH Frankensteins, or Fenders, or Ibanez Jems for next to nothing, branded and everything. Then people decide to sell them as if they have a legit used guitar. Paying less than $500 for a copy, and then trying to sell it for upwards of $2000. A Fender certified preowned would be great to have piece of mind to buy a used guitar and know they aren't getting a fake. Even Kyle Bull recently bought a used E-II from Guitar Center that turned out to be fake, so these fakes are getting by the biggest guitar sellers in the world. However, the execution of it is terrible. No one in their right mind is going to pay new prices for a used guitar. The truth is, people are buying used more now than ever, and Fender wants to try to capture a segment of that market. This is not the way to do that.
It’s like Ticketmaster getting fees on resale tickets from both the buyer and seller on already egregiously priced tickets. Every major company double dips and normal people get smoked. Wash, rinse, repeat
Informative video. Yeah I took a quick look at it and was immediately turned off by the prices for second hand goods. I love Fender style guitars. But I rarely buy them. Not when I can build custom shop type parts casters for less money.
On of the reasons used is the most profitable segment for retailers is many guitars from American manufacturers only have a 25-30% margin for sale. Where that same MIA guitar when resold will be sold at a 40% margin for most retailers. Meaning if you’re a retailer you might make more off reselling that guitar used in a year than you did selling it the first time.
They imprint a stamp on the headstock that says "used" and put a new serial number on it. Ruins a bit of the mysticism of the instrument and deterred me from purchasing. The seller also didnt disclose this!!!
It’s easier to “justify” new gear prices when you control the used gear market.
Yeah but people are going to see right through this, I don’t see this being a real competitor to faceboook or Craigslist
I don't think they'll control the used market. To do that, they would be strategically undercutting their dealers to drive them out of business, and only then increase their prices.
This doesn't seem like a long term play; this is a short term, low effort cash grab. I don't think we need to worry.
yeah they gonna control facebook market used..............smh lol
@@sebg2086 you guys don’t get it. When sellers see that Fender is selling used for 30% off new. Plus tax, plus shipping, etc. Then sellers are going to match that price and the market will start to accept that price.
Just like Fender selling used and controlling the market isn’t going to stop people from buying new. MANY buyers will think if used is only 25-30% off brand new then they will just buy brand new.
That why Richmont bought one of the big used watches website some years ago
Phillip Mcknight talked about this in his most recent episode, the "certified preowned" is just all the returns that people sent back to Fender within the return window. They built way too many guitars to begin with and cant sell them all, now they have all this barely used B stock, and they have to offload it somehow. Just another middle finger to their longtime dealers lmao
That makes sense. Thanks for sharing
if that was the case what would you suggest fender do with the B stocks?
@@BassRacerx probably the same thing. Just throw it all into the same basket
One of our biggest stores here in Canada Long and McQuade had some "B stock" Fenders recently and the guitars were almost immaculate. And the prices were great. I don't see how this is a bad thing for the consumer. Are guitar players seriously complaining about having more options now? Maybe it's time to turn off the computer and start practicing your guitar guys.
@@Joe-mz6dc well if you watched this video to the end you'd see that fender's certified used prices are actually not that great. In fact, you may as well buy new. I'm not buying any guitars any time soon so I couldnt care less. The main issue people have is with fender screwing their dealers who have had their back for decades. Those dealers were already competing with fender direct online sales, and now they're competing on used inventory. I dont want to see more small shops close down
"More instrument for your money"....its literally the opposite of that.
Buying used guitars off people for as low as possible then selling them on for about 10% off new retail value soundxlike there screwing sellers
Fender: "How can we make more money without having to actually build anything?"
Correct! Paying production workers for 40 hours plus any OT is the greatest expense of any sort of manufacturing company.
@@pat5882 but still typically a minority of costs (30% is typical). It does rather depend on industry and the level of automation, though. With greater use of CNC, guitar manufacturing wages percentage has probably fallen a fair bit over the last twenty years.
😂it's a way to discount their goods they have built and have way too much stock of !
Isn't that pretty much what "the American dream" is? Making money without producing anything ...
@@wbertie2604 good point. Add in the amount of various types of wood that Fender must purchase per year, the greater the amount in tons, I guess, the greater the discount. In high inflationary times, most raw materials prices are high regardless of discount for bulk purchase.
Good job exposing the economics behind this offering. It’s correct to be cynical. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
I think their purpose is to try to drive up used values, to reduce and bridge the price gap between new and used.
Wouldn't this drive down pre-owned prices? Since now guitar center, private sellers, etc have to compete
@@KennedyIvy This assumes the fallacy that corporations "compete" with each other instead of what actually happened, rampant collusion and regulatory capture 🤣
Bingo, and no it won't drive down the price of new.
It’s brilliant business. And if consumers are willing to pay then good on them if consumers revoke because they feel like it’s a scam they’ll stop doing it. That’s the way the free market works.
@KennedyIvy No, it won't drive the prices down, it will drive them up. Why? Because "certified" gives Fender an excuse to charge more money than a typical used guitar from a third party. At first, it stands out and people might see the distinction between the quality control of fender certified vs other used guitars but what it actually does is give private sellers a higher price they can gravitate towards. Same with brick and mortar stores but those stores will likely start calling THEIR used guitars "certified", if they don't already, because a certification does not have a legal meaning outside of the entity doing the certification. "Certified" just means whatever the seller wants it to mean. It could mean mint condition with a full setup from a luthier or it could mean the guitar was dusted with a wet rag when it came in. Heck, you can even call your used equipment "certified used" in a private sell but it's certified by YOU. There's no legal license or certification YOU need to obtain because the value of your certification will speak for itself. This has happened in the used car market 50 years ago. "Certified pre-owned" is so common, people rarely decide to buy a car at a higher price just because it's "certified" because honestly, you don't really know what value that extra cost is giving you. What it does do though, is raise the used values of all the used products.
Fender are gone full Gibson. Never go full Gibson.
For four hundred years, that word has holding us back.
@@fajaradi1223Gibson and Fender haven't even been around that long, most retarded thing I've heard today
Except for the fact gibson make better guitars.
@@xR0N1Nxmate... Come now... That's pish
@@xR0N1Nx do they???
I remember when things were "used". Then, it changed to "pre-owned". The new phrase I'm seeing now is "pre-loved". 😆
I also remember when guitars had a price, not any more it's "price point" these days. (Gag).
@@robert-wr6md Where I live, it is even worse: "used" is now "semi-new". Impossibly ridiculous.
@@robert-wr6mdthey say “color way” a lot instead of just color sometimes also
I’m old enough to remember “second-hand”
"pre-loved" ~= "heavy relic"😂
certified con
“Certified” used cars.
🧥 hi kid wanna buy a watch or a fender?
It's simple: they realized that there are still a lot of people willing to pay huge amount of money for something you can get for less, just because has "certified" word on it
you just have to buy used from marketplace lol.....if the price is not good they wont sell
I honestly see the value with so many fakes, and not so many people who actually know what to look for.
I will pay more for certified
They sound like they’re 30 seconds away from saying something about the JD Power and Associates Award.
😂😂😂😂😂
Lmao
that should give you a hint they don’t have the customer’s interest in mind
I bet these crooked corporations can't stand your channel, but I love watching you call them on their bullsht. Keep up the good work brother, integrity is in short supply these days.
Absolutely 💯 💯 🇬🇧
Turned down a job here in Nashville at MIRC because they wouldn’t pay me any more than $12 an hour. What a joke
Well I'm sure that they imply that their workers make a living wage😅
But your in a Red state $7.25 HR min wage nightmare😮
"1 year Limited waranty"
LOL I didn't have warrenty on a brand spanking new american Ultra 2 with Missaligned parts straight out of the factory.
Good luck claiming waranty on any of this.
It doesn’t matter. Phil McKnight had a damaged Strat that was sold as “no warranty” and the owner turned it in to Fender for warranty service. Fender had him put a new neck on that Strat, even though he told Fender it didn’t qualify. This was before the pandemic so maybe things are different now. It is always worth a shot to get service under warranty.
@@WilliamHaisch I tried several aproached even with help from a local dealer, no dice.
I eventually had a local Luthier fill the original holes of the bridge and realign it.
Replaced the pickguard because it didn't line up with the control panel, just a cosmetic issue that left a hole between the 2 but again €2000+ instrument.
And the Missaligned neck pick-up I decided to have swapped out, now it's a EMG p/j set.
I didn't want to spend so much money just to end up with basically a stock jazz bass.
As much as I love it it still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
If i ever get another fender it will surely be nothing USA.
Played some MIJ ones and they are simply better.
@@mqaisataloss.5951 Yikes! That sucks. I’m sorry to hear that.
Con men to the left of us, thieves to the right...here we are stuck in the middle with you, KDH...Rock on!
Corporate greed is a bitch, there's really no escaping it.
vote with ur wallet
Sure there is... Stop
buying their shizZit! 😊 That simple! I got rid of my Fenders when I figured out their games!
China will beat it. Watch.
it's not greed. the economy sucks and sales are down. They're trying to survive! lol
I hate Ford's history. I would never give them my money willingly. I'll buy a used Ford in a heartbeat. and I try to avoid Motorcraft.
Car companies have been doing this for decades. As a former salesman, used was always more profitable.
New is a way to make money from servicing and warranty and feed the used market.
Car dealers are not retailers, they're financial institutions. They don't make their money from the sale, but from the loan they give you.
Only the luxury brands have ever used the "certified pre-owned" shtick. Fender fancies themselves as a Lexus or a Benz of the guitar world, lol.
@@davidkulmaczewski4911 really, didnt know gm and ford were luxury brands. theyve been doing it for more than a decade.
KDH always gets to the bottoms of these things. This program is even worse than I thought. Thanks for shedding light on it. Do they think we are all idiots or something?! I realized you can buy new for around the same price. I didn’t realize all the details you mentioned, though. I never thought I’d say this, but if you wanna waste your money, buy new! And if you wanna buy used (or new), buy from small shops and individual sellers who are struggling to make sales because they have to drop the prices to an all time low to compete. Thanks, KDHb 😎🎸🤘🏻
Factory seconds or B Stock guitars surely cant be sold by advertising to give a guitar a second third or even a fourth life when they havevt even had a life outside of the factory, isnt that false advertising? I thought that lying in adverts was illegal in most countries!!!
good point, but they will play lawyer semantics and word games
Perhaps in the EU, but here in America, consumer protections are essentially go F yourself that'll be 50 dollars please.
@@thelongvirtuesignal8551 Oh, they will indeed.
Trade description Act!!! whatever its called now. 😮
So Fender and Gibson have officially become "used car salesmen".
They might want to have given some consideration to how most of the world regards "used car salesmen".
Absolutely 💯 💯 💯 💯 💯
The problem is that none of the big brands are selling enough guitars to keep the doors open. Fender blew it when they started marketing to the fringe, and Gibson's overseas guitar Epiphone are better built for a 3rd of the price. For a player, it's all sound and dependability, tuning stability. I simply can not understand why these companies are simply not trying to build the best instrument they can.
Who is "the fringe"?
Watched the Fender ad. My brain auto-translated it to: "Fender! We want our cut from the used market, but we are not the government so we can't tax it!"
You be surprised how many people give up guitar after 3 months!
No doubt. And after the massive upsurge in Guitar sales during covid that is even more so. That's why there is such a massive glut of used instruments on the market now. Suddenly all of those people don't want to be a guitar player anymore.
Yup. I’ve bought a lot of Gibsons and Fenders in “used mint” condition thanks to rich people dabbling.
Legacy brands struggling for YOY revenue increases squeezing every last bit of profit from every corner they can scramble to find. If they could find a way to make it so only Fender/Gibson picks worked on their guitars they would do it in a heartbeat.
This all ties into the whole "Fender Authorized" signs on music shops and repair places, and as a builder and repair man I have looked into it (Ain't gonna do it!), and for the builder it means repairing whatever they send you, and guide people needing warranty repair to you, but also at their rates, using only their parts, so not to use any non Fender parts even if the customer wants let's say to upgrade to locking tuners, or using better bridge saddles...
I would be under contract to a lower wage when working on their crap, to expect a shipment of a larger quantity of instruments all at once, working on a tight deadline for their stuff despite my own customers stuff, disappointing customers for telling them what they can and cannot get fixed, and what parts I can and cannot install... Now add to all that, they do not require me to be skilled to any measure, have the proper work space and tools... established only by merely signing a form that you agree, and if you are a total screw up, only then may they take away your "Authority" which they actually did to guitar center.
So how does that sign all the repair shops claimed to be a must have, just because it gives prospects and customers a false sense of quality and security... all at my and the customers potential expense? It doesn't! Gibson and others have similar programs, and they only serve the corporation in the end, no one else, and this is just a new adage to it, and a new angle to middle man shit, and make money off of name recognition only!
A corporation 😅expected!!
It's like Ticketmaster owning the ticket resale companies.
Reverb is a joke too. Got scammed by a buyer...no seller protection...
Go on. I reported a scammer to Reverb. They did nothing. I tried again. I got robo mail saying they don't allow 2 reports for the same ad. They did allow the scammer to sell the guitar.
2 weeks later it was listed by the buyer. He wasn't happy.
How does the seller get scammed? You don't send product until the money is in your hands right?
Great video as always. If it helps Fender owns MIRC ( I believe they bought them last year) so MIRC refurbishing the guitars is technically Fender, kinda. I agree with you I can not see the value they are offering. Funny Side note. MIRC just bought Mighty Mite parts.
Thanks Phil.
That’s very interesting. I wonder how long it’ll be before Fender no longer license headstock trademarks to Warmoth and just use Mighty Might
There's a musical instrument chain in the midwestern United States called Music Go Round. They're supposed to only sell used instruments. However, whenever I go there, there's a ton of instruments hanging on the wall that look new but are marked used. I've always wondered what the story was, and after watching this video, I did a quick search, and it does appear that Music Go Gound and MIRC have a relationship. It makes sense that these are all factory seconds and B stock, because if MIRC bought used guitars directly from players, they'd have to pay much closer to market value for them and then there's no profit in re-selling them, especially when you factor in refurbishing costs.
Feels scammy all around; a factory second isn't "used," it's just damaged in some way.
there's a big difference between
"damaged" and defective
Factory 2nds aren't necessarily damaged either. The word "damaged," has different implications than "below A-grade standard."
A factory 2nd, (or B stock) can be as simple as a slight paint run in the finish, or a poorly placed fret marker on the side of the neck. The number of B stock guitars I've seen that I couldn't find why they were labeled as such (without asking) is quite a few.
I love them, as they're usually great deals.
all b-stocks are factory rejects, either by the manufacturer or by the retailers
They are a licensed Yamaha dealer, so they do have new Yamaha stuff. I love the store, buy there all the time.
I "Certify" this video as used now.
Does that make this video authentic? Am I playing authentic right now as I am listening to it? 🤔
@@ThursdayLaneNumber1Fan as long as you don't remove the watermark you're good I've read
I removed the serial number tho. Crap.
"Pre-owned" is THEE greatest euphemism in marketing history! Makes it sound like some service was rendered.
Fender seems to be taking a cue from this with "certified". It seems the most they're are actually DOING is looking at the pictures, MAYBE checking the serial number and going "Yep".
I'm really happy I have my three guitars and I have no desire to partake in unnecessary consumerism
I too have only 3 guitars and zero gear envy.
The problem with Fender is that they've watered down their own classics to the point where they've long-since lost their exclusivity and unique credibility. Nobody gives a crap about what brand name is on the end of a Fender Telecaster these days when there are literally 65 models of it on their website but you can get a Jet or Harley Benton copy for a lot less, which will play and sound better. And it's even less so with a second hand one which Fender is overcharging you for. It just shows how clueless and desperate they are.
When there were only a few models of each main Fender type, they had a 'this is the real deal' aura about them. It was a fragile advantage, but it was there. That's all gone now with all that player, standard, paranormal, american standard, classic player, vintera, squier, classic vibe, pawn shop, ad infinitum bunch of bollocks. And nobody else is to blame for that; they did it to themselves, shooting themselves up the arse with their idiotic marketing bullshit, weakening what was once a really strong brand identity.
It's a situation made vastly worse in a world where everyone knows CNC cutting and a global market mean you can buy a very decent clone for not much over 100 quid; one which can easily be tarted up with another ton and a half and a bit of fettling to make it play and sound as good as any Fender, regardless of how much they charge for theirs, or what stupid name they are flogging it under this week. So nobody cares whether a guitar has Fender on the end of it any longer, because it doesn't mean it's the best any more; and has not meant that for a very long time. The same is true for Gibson too. Nobody with any sense covets those logos any more, they might as well go and piss all over Leo's grave.
2018 was Fenders last good year.
Suhr is making better Fenders than Fender themselves.
Yup.. When I was young, only serious players had real Fenders. People would stare at a Strat all night and talk to you about it at gigs. It would even get you gigs! It was something to aspire to.
These days, they're another guitar.
Guitar manufacturers need to stop employing people with marketing degrees and experience in selling travel insurance.
Questionable behaviour from a guitar company? I'm shocked.
………..and many a good Gibson and Fender guitars that are 3-4 years old are for sale at less or a bit less than half of the new price. That’s what I have noticed just trolling FBMP.
If they put it through an ACTUAL upgrade process it would be worth it.
Plek, for example. If they put everything through a cleaning, inspection, and new strings wirh *a Plek setup* with special attention paid to fret sprout and the neck in general - they could almost charge close to the original price and it would probably work.
Without the benefit of getting time on the Plek, it's not worth it imho.
Keep shining a light, man. You are doing a great service to the community! 🎸🎸🎸
The low-budget digi-pop music in that commercial had no guitar in it. I hate that crap.
Being in business for a long time used to be a selling point for choosing a business. Seems to be turning into a deal breaker recently.
How did Gibson not come up with this first?
They just sponsor Trogly to juice the used prices anyways
@@killroy123 it certainly does makes you wonder!
No one will pay near full price for Gibby's with repaired broken headstocks
😂😂😂 great comment
@@killroy123 Trogly's just been to his first ever concert!?!!?!
When private equity/venture capital buys ANY business they have the expectation of profits increasing by >20% every year. Pretty soon every business is expected to stack paper like a Ponzi scheme, which is INSANE.
Guitar subscription 😂
More excellent, balanced stuff from KDH. The channel's so very reliable. Where else do you go if you want a reasonable opinion with no hyperbole, shouty delivey or gimmicks? You go to this man.
Brilliant video, very well researched. Thanks for shining a light on this KDH
“Bought this certified pre owned Squire last year. Mint condition. 950 OBO”
Pretty Outrageous. Good journalism as ever!
The best advice is to do your research, check prices from multiple retailers/sources before making a purchase.
I love the "sometimes beating the average used price" in the ad. It is a used item though, and if I'm buying used then i'm price conscious and would rather get a guitar that beats the "average used guitar price"
The easiest way to stand against this kind of BS is simply not to buy. Again, thank you, KDH, for informing us. I own 2 FMIC products, a Tele and a Gretsch. I'm not one of those people who have to have (insert names here) on the headstock. If I like it, I don't care who makes it.
2:05 Apple's program for that is about as flawed as Fender's though if not worse. Apple doesn't have an official second hand market and never will because that goes against their idea of Apple devices being appliances you replace when something goes wrong. Though in practice, this will hurt gear collectors and scalpers, which means a better market for people that just want to buy guitars to use them instead of hanging them on the wall for a video backdrop or potential investment asset.
I always think certified pre owned means someone looked at it and said "oh yeah, that's DEFINITELY not new."
This is terrible for small guitar shops. Fender is taking away the opportunity that these shops had with MIRC and used guitars in general. It’s really disgusting
I started seeing guitars MIRC several years ago, and the serial number is supposed to be marked "USED." It's not pre-owned; it's a nice marketing spin on refurbished guitars. There is no telling what was repaired on them and what the damage was. Fender is not disclosing this. This needs more investigation from KDH.
wow these guitars are not just used they CERTIFIED that they were used i thought i was buying a brand new guitar thanks fender
Nailed it with the MIRC comment because I came here to say these guitars are factory seconds, returns and overstock.
These guitars are a combination of dealer returns due to poor quality, direct to consumer returns from Fender's website sales, and overstock for failed launches. They get refurbed by MIRC which Fender has some ownership in and Fender competes with the dealer base and private sellers.
Bad idea . There are people who buy only new guitars (we all need them on the 2nd hand market !! ) . Now Fender decided to make them think that a used guitar can be as good as the new one... and that only a naive person would pay more for a new guitar. I believe the only good thing about this is - lower taxation on "used" guitars and usually - no warranty .
The next for Fender will be - we send you parts , you assemble the guitar .
Great guitar-market reporting again! You perform a valuable (and enjoyable) service keeping us all apprised of the latest guitar developments. Thanks!
Lots of stores double list on reverb, 1 guitar listed as used and new. Technically if the retailer opens the box it can be sold as used. Big box stores do this. They then chargeback the guitar to Fender as 'returned'. Fender does not want the guitar back so they give it to the retailer for cost and the inventory is back logged to their shipping schedule for that store. Fender Authorized dealers are allowed to do this because they are subscribed to a continuous minimum number of guitars they have to buy from Fender. If folks actually knew what Fender charges a retailer for a guitar compared to how much you actually pay retail, they would be pissed.
I think we should start giving the power and wealth to the actual factories (for squier, made in mexico, harley benton, sire, etc.), producing the guitars. At some point people should be educated/informed enough that some famous brands don't do that much that justifies their prices. The actual work is done at the factory. The knowledge how to build instruments is widely spread and factories will be able to gain a reputation for their luthiers if they do exceptional work.
Did you just say give away power and wealth? 😂 I’m sure they’ll get right on that
Lots of Asian contract factories have had their own brands for decades. FGN, Peerless, etc. The Fender factory in Mexico only makes FMIC products, unlike the contract factories.
I owned a very successful guitar store in the 1990s in the Philadelphia area. I watched the industry begin to change from a relatively small and friendly industry into something else altogether. It was like the companies hired business school graduates who knew nothing about guitars or players. Taylor led the charge when they decided they had to compete with Martin for the owner's gratification. Where they were protecting their smaller, local dealers, that all ended when Bob Taylor made CnC work on wood. Guitars changed and the market changed. I sold the store in 2000 at the height of its popularity. I was making good money but no longer enjoyed the business. It was so nice for a while but everything eventually falls apart. I'm so glad I sold it. There is no way I could compete in today's environment of fancy websites and so on.
They keep coming up with ways to separate you from your money, I'm glad you're exposing these scams!
If for example "b-stock" is "pre-owned", EVERYTHING is pre-owned, quite literally. And this means, the label "pre-owned" is useless.
So good you do videos like this outting these shady business practices. Shame on you Fender.
I have noticed that Franklin's prices have also gone up a bit since this "program" kicked off.
Straight out rip off . Fender should be ashamed .
the pawn shop has certified CHEAP- owned fenders for 85% off and i dont know why anybody talks about the absolute smoking deals you get at pawn shops
Not where I live. Pawn shops have terrible prices.
Bro thinks he discovered pawn shops
Because those deals are uncommon to see. Most pawn shops nowadays have terrible deals
@@FenderFanboy91Alot of them are full of junk no one wants
@@jasondorsey7110 you also see them charging almost brand new prices on used guitars, even if the condition is nowhere near new
ugh don’t even get me started on their player strats too, they’re even brand new but the nut and frets need a lot of work!
This sort of sales tactic defines the old "smoke, mirrors and BS" method. Thanks for shining an honest light on it.
Getting any guitar mfg to actually honor their warranty is a joke. They will all say flat out if the issue doesn’t affect playability then they’re not gonna do anything. I bought a brand new ESP Eclipse II years ago, from an authorized dealer, and within a couple months there was a finish crack in the neck joint area. I didn’t even hang it on a wall hanger or anything, it stayed in the case when I wasn’t using it. The president of ESP America (Matt something) emailed me directly and told me to go fuck myself.
Rear wheel bearing collapsed on my harley on the motorway after they fitted the wrong one.uk harley" head guy" said he had a fireblade that happened toAs if it was nothing go.so fuck off indeed.😅
Pre owned? Fancy marketing talk for used guitar! Never seen so much BS AS I do now in guitar world. 💯
Thank you for your investigative nature KDH! We need this
If their guitars are so good, buying one secondhand should not require any ‘professional inspection’, especially as guitars are subjective only to the buyer. I remember ‘inspecting’ new Strats in Guitar Center, looking for ones with neck screwed straight into the socket! If it is second hand and broken or damaged, the price drops more.
The problem for Fender & Gibson is that there is little technological advancement in guitars . The cost is in the labor and it is far less in Asian factories. 20 years ago the Asian finishing wasn’t that good but, times have changed and Fender / Gibson haven’t.
This certified pre owned happens in the motor trade and the car ends up priced at just below the new price and well above the fair secondhand market.
I honestly completely agree mate I think you are right with what fenders actual intention is, they want to monopolise the pre owned section on reverb of their instruments not only to keep charging more than they should for pre owned but basically making it so you “may as well” get a brand new one because the saving will not be nearly as significant as if you got an actual deal from someone just selling their fender
Im new to guitar, what is a great brand/model for the money that rivals tbese big dawg brands? I have a beginner Ibanez, just curious.
I saw this the other day and was blown away by how unimpressed I was with the business tactic 😅
In other words... You were impressed by how unimpressed you were? 😂
Oh boy MIRC. When I worked at an MGR MIRC would consistently send us completely unsellable guitars with super sharp fret ends, unleveled frets, or completely borked wiring. What a joke.
So, they sell their seconds under the guise of a "goal post moved" description, now defined as pre-owned, AND they lay off most of their quality control staff to save more money, because they have a new market that they can sell those sub par guitars in. Got it.
Just recently a few months ago I bought a Fender Tele Professional used from Reverb. This guitar lists for $2500 + new in Canada. This one is a 2018 I bought for $1500. I'm very happy with this guitar it plays brilliantly. Fender execs need to learn a few things. The year a guitar was made isn't an issue to a used buyer. They aren't cars. As well as the fact they don't really change that much year to year if they even change at all. 2018 --- 2024... meh.... I would not have paid 2 or 300 more for this guitar if it was listed by Fender as pre owned. Which I suspect is the game they playing. They also need to learn most musicians that buy guitars in the used market are seasoned players that are fully capable of set up and care of a guitar. New students tend to buy from stores new. Being isolated to Reverb where seasoned players shop and know better. Hopefully its a short lived experiment. Last time I was on their Reverb page they didn't even have any stock
Are these even pre-owned instruments, or are they returns, b stocks, and excess inventory?
No. Yes. Yes... and maybe.
Seriously wonder about the future of the instrument. Having mostly young teens as students, I can honestly say most don’t practice and waste a lot of their parents money to go over the same concepts instead of putting in the time to advance. It makes me feel old, but into the modern day era of instant gratification, guitar is something that takes a lot of time and effort to get good at, and a lot of kids just give up on it. I would like seeing the cost of guitars come down, as now I pretty much only purchase second hand to save some money. I enjoy your videos. All the best
The custom shop is going to be wild with all those used ones without certs. They are going to make a killing.
this shows me how long i've been out of guitar market. MiM guitars were all $300- $400 when i remember seeing them.
Im on a lot looking for gear so when I saw the fender marketing I checked the prices and started checking the resellers and found what you pointed out. I love the resellers because the minute you get a new guitar in your hand it's used. The ones I use have good return policies and I've never had a lot of luck trying to use any warranty. Hopefully this gets out to new guitar players and shoppers.
The reason there are so many 2nd hand guitars is that so many give up learning it. How about doing something about that instead?
This man is using 100% of his brain 🤯
None of these corporations actually care if people play any of the product they make, they literally just want the money (all of it)
I mean....if you buy a brand new squier (possibly fender, haven't looked) you DO get one year of fender play...
I'm not sure there is any way to do something about that. This happens in all hobbies. People buy the gear required to do said hobby then sell it when they don't continue with it.
You mean like developing a guitar learning app/website?
You can find better deals on recently discontinued models. Place I shop blows out discontinued stuff for like 10 points over cost just to make room. Brand new, with warranty, usually sub $1000. Basically, as soon as Fender discontinues them, they stop enforcing IMAP, and this place unloads them cheap.
Fender getting Authentic 😂
BAH GAWD THAT’s KDH’s MUSIC!!! KDH IS HERE AND HE’S READY TO RAISE HELL KANG!
Is your caps lock key stuck?
I suppose if there is one good point, it makes it easier for someone buying a used Fender to be sure their new guitar is real, but it's hardly a great value proposition. What we have to remember is that not everybody is an expert and you see people getting burned on counterfeir guitars all the time. A manufacturer giving that reassurance could be a great thing, but only if the price difference is enough to make it worth doing. At this point, it would make more sense to just buy a new one, or maybe that's what they want.
On its face, it sounds like a great deal because fakes have become a big problem in the used guitar market. Especially since there are companies in China that will build EVH Frankensteins, or Fenders, or Ibanez Jems for next to nothing, branded and everything. Then people decide to sell them as if they have a legit used guitar. Paying less than $500 for a copy, and then trying to sell it for upwards of $2000. A Fender certified preowned would be great to have piece of mind to buy a used guitar and know they aren't getting a fake. Even Kyle Bull recently bought a used E-II from Guitar Center that turned out to be fake, so these fakes are getting by the biggest guitar sellers in the world. However, the execution of it is terrible. No one in their right mind is going to pay new prices for a used guitar. The truth is, people are buying used more now than ever, and Fender wants to try to capture a segment of that market. This is not the way to do that.
Plus the Chinese clones are built to order and are fairly priced, unlike Fender's program. No wonder they sell.
@@BrunodeSouzaLino That's debatable. Most people that buy them either just use them for decoration, or they have to mod them to make them playable.
Great job as usual , in informing us ! Thank you!
btw, have you seen 'Chapman's' video, complaining 'no one cares'?
It’s like Ticketmaster getting fees on resale tickets from both the buyer and seller on already egregiously priced tickets. Every major company double dips and normal people get smoked. Wash, rinse, repeat
Just another money grab by a big brand
Informative video. Yeah I took a quick look at it and was immediately turned off by the prices for second hand goods. I love Fender style guitars. But I rarely buy them. Not when I can build custom shop type parts casters for less money.
Landrover did this about a decade ago. Restoring Mk1 and Series 2 Classic Landrovers. They got the Apprentices to do it, it did not go well.
On of the reasons used is the most profitable segment for retailers is many guitars from American manufacturers only have a 25-30% margin for sale. Where that same MIA guitar when resold will be sold at a 40% margin for most retailers. Meaning if you’re a retailer you might make more off reselling that guitar used in a year than you did selling it the first time.
Even a 1 year guitar center blanket warranty on a used guitar is only like 70 bucks on a guitar up to a grand.
The links are still functionning but the Reverb page of FGW is now empty...
They imprint a stamp on the headstock that says "used" and put a new serial number on it. Ruins a bit of the mysticism of the instrument and deterred me from purchasing. The seller also didnt disclose this!!!
KDH ,
Yet another excellent informative video 👍
Ithought there was something a bit iffy about this ???
More ways to rip people off .👎😡
They might be crushed too. That reduces the supply. Reminds me of Cameron’s scrap your car scheme.