It's not just players, it's normal citizens get that too. Canada is one of the most expensive places on the plant to live in. And for absolutely zero reason, we get treated like shit here. Zero life in return for said tax dollars.
Help me if I am wrong, but if I am paid in USD (like all NHL players are, even if they are in Canada), but all my family expenses are in Canadian funds, is that not approximately a 30% difference right there (because of exchange)? I can assure you that coupled with the fact that a family doctor in Vegas costs an arm and a leg and that costs in Vegas for residents are legit higher than Winnipeg, even in USD vs CAD, it isn't what you think it is. I have been to Vegas twice in the last two years and we pay almost exactly the same in CAD as they do in USD (except there is a 30% difference). When you factor in available money after taxes, I would suspect you are looking at a top end difference of about $50-$60K and that doesn't include the aforementioned family doctor bills, any hospital trips, etc.
@@JamesHandle-ff4ov No, all their health care expenses would be paid for...they live in Canada. Their are less private expenses, thus more taxes (government carries out these services). If a player needs extra needs or their family member does...you can bet that the team would pay for those expenses.
FYI, you tax estimations were just wrong. Players pay taxes based on where they are playing on any given night. Their taxes each year are actually a fucking novel because they have to submit forms for every state and province they played in that year as well as U.S. and Canada. So while they will pay more than a Vegas player because they are going to play 41 games at home in Winnipeg, it's not as big of a difference as you showed. SDPN's show with an agent, Agent Provocateur, has a good episode on how it all shakes out. They also showed how it all doesnt matter as much as people talk about anyways. They pay the best accountants available to put their money into various investment vehicles to defer taxes to when they move to florida in retirement anyway.
You are partly right, but the income and tax that is calculated in other places has to be factored into where you reside. If you are deemed a resident of Manitoba you have to pay the Manitoba tax rate. So when you add up all the income tax paid to other jurisdictions it all still has to equal the tax you have to pay for the privilege of residing in Manitoba.
Players get paid in USD. Goes a long way in Canada. Imagine playing a winter sport in a place that actually has winter? Great organization. Affordable city. Plenty to do. And no one signs in Winnipeg? Laurent Brossoitx2 Mark Scheifele Blake Wheeler Connor Hellebuyck Josh Morrissey Kyle Connor Nikolaj Ehlers Plus countless other extensions. NHL players are mostly just rich kids from rich homes that want to be celebrities.
If we want an even playing field (err, paying field.....eerr, paying ice??) we would implement a cap system that normalizes for differences in taxation in different locations so the take-home for each player is the exact same regardless of where they're playing. That would be a huge help. Of course that won't happen, because the owners in the locations Gary wants the NHL to shine all have low or no state income taxes and much lower taxes overall. How else can we compete with that?
I think that this is a fair video that does try and look at the WPG situation with free agents. My one pushback would be that the tax is just straight taxes calculated like you or I would pay. These athletes bring in a lot of money and therefor can leverage tax vehicles that the regular person can't. One example is the Retirement Compensation Agreements(RCA) that can return a significant amount of money to the player. If a player is actually paying the tax rates you described they either have a piss poor accountant or non at all. All in all I think this a great video to start conversations like this to dig into the buisness side of the sport and recognize the unique challenges of our market and also potential advantages.
Can´t canadian teams unite and pressure NHL to balance cap so they can compete with US teams? I mean, at the end of the day it just makes sense that the cap should be calculated on the amount the players actually get.
You hit the nail on the head. I’ve been saying the tax part for years. Calgary and Edmonton are not exactly picnic’s in the winter, but both cities are more economically vibrant and have a tax regime that is considerably cheaper than Winnipeg.
Most players can endure the cold weather if it is offset by being on a team that is competitive and if the tax burden is lessened. This is especially difficult in Canada with a federal government in power that is further Left than the NDP. Oh BTW, @3:54 - You spelled development wrong.
There’s a perception that Commish Gary Bettman will not have a Canadian team win the Stanley Cup. Jets ownership isn’t all in on trying to win the Cup. GM Chevy is too cautious in his job. A head coach hire is based on loyalty. The team is too conservative. Mark Chipman is always crying poverty.
Great video. I think not signing in Winnipeg because it's "shit and dangerous" IMO is a lame reason, yes we don't have nightlife, we have a bad homeless problem but I was in Halifax this past Thanksgiving and saw a few tents spread out their downtown, it's not a Winnipeg thing! Taxes and cold weather are more believable.
Winnipeg is the smallest market and is not that close to other large market cities...this would be an issue. Other NHL cities are more connected and are 'known', have a 'perceived' nightlife and glamour.
No, but of metro areas with NHL teams, Winnipeg isn't the only one with brutal weather, with those of Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, NYC, Buffalo, Detroit, Minneapolis, Salt Lake City and Denver also long having had brutal winter weather. So how come the Jets have only won 1 post-2019 playoff series while the Canucks, NYR, Avs and Oilers have each won 3 or more?
@@JoelER78 Weather in BC's Lower Mainland has been brutal in places even if parts of Metro Vancouver don't get snow that often. Yet the Oilers, located in a part of the world with brutal weather, came last month within a goal of extending game 7 of the Stanley Cup final to OT. The Bolts by contrast, in a part of Florida with relatively mild winters, didn't come close to a Cup final last season.
All the players would probably be 'incorporated', and have a lot of advice from accountants, lawyers, etc. Thus, they would not be paying 50% in taxes...that'd be impossible. They should be, and so should all rich people, but I would think that as rich and connected citizens that they could get away with it (if they are smart). So, that argument is crap. Canadians are NOT taxed too much because we get much needed services from those taxes (we could start to allocate those resources better, but that'd probably mean a more centralized government and citizens here are so regionalized). In the USA you are still inadvertently taxed, it is just private taxes...you have to pay for services provided by private companies (more things are provided by private corporations in the USA). Which also makes life more expensive than in other developed countries (ex. paying for health care premiums). As a rich person this may not be an issue, but for a majority of citizens it is less than ideal. The cold is bull (especially since some cities are much more humid, aka Montreal and Ottawa). They play only half a season there. Some live year round others go home for the duration of the year (and our Summers are getting hot!) One issue may be that Winnipeg is a small city to go to and it is not close to other markets...that would be the only issue I see. Players that love the outdoors really enjoy playing/living in Winnipeg (Alex Iafallo).
Really? I went onto the Canada Revenue Agency website section on provincial and territorial income taxes but then to a Fidelity article on tax rates by province and territory for 2023 (titled "2023 Canadian income tax brackets"). Of the highest marginal tax rates (MTR) mentioned among those provinces with NHL teams: - Quebec's was 25.75% (on taxable income [TI] exceeding CDN$119,910) - BC's, 20.5% (on TI over CDN$240,716) - Manitoba's, 17.4% (on TI over CDN$79,625) - Alberta's, 15% (on TI over CDN$341,502) - Ontario's, 13.16% (on TI over CDN$220,000) For this calendar year, the highest MTR for: - QC (on TI > CDN$126,000) is 25.75% - BC (on TI > CDN$252,752), 20.5% - MB (on TI > CDN$100,000), 17.4% - AB (on TI > CDN$355,845), 15% - ON (on TI > CDN$220,000), 13.16% So how come the Canucks, despite their home province, of the 5 with NHL teams, having the 2nd-HIGHEST MTR, advanced to the 2nd round of the 2024 postseason while the Jets, based in a province with a lower MTR for the highest earners of TI, lasted only 5 games in the postseason? Part of that has to do with the lack of defensive awareness come playoff time, with the Jets' having played 9 straight relevant games during which they've allowed at least 4 goals and have gone just 1-8 over that time span. Furthermore, among 5 Canadian provinces with NHL teams, Ontario has the LOWEST MTR on high-income earners, but with its NHL teams, from the 2019-20 season, having combined for ONE playoff series win: that by the Leafs in an April 2023 series against the Bolts. The Sens didn't make a post-2017 pre-2025 playoff appearance, having put up a regular-season points % of 50 or more just ONCE: during the 2022-23 season via 86 points over 82 games. The Oilers' success in the postseason can't just all be on the 2nd-lowest MTR among Canadian provinces with NHL teams, right? Their 2024 Stanley Cup appearance had to do with having played, in 12 of 25 games, relatively defensively-responsible hockey, having gone 11-1 when they'd allowed under 3 goals/game. The Winnipeg Jets have, over their past NINE playoff games, allowed at least FOUR goals, with a 1-8 record that should've set off such huge alarm bells for RADICAL changes to the roster.
Very good video for fans who don't understand Even Nashville 0% Tampa,Florida,Vegas. Other teams have big advantages. Not to mention house prices,schooling family life,weather. We are constantly murder capital or top 2 in Canada. I know die hard winnipegers think their homes best but we are far behind other places. Even politics US and Canada have different issues. US some states more conservative or Liberal say Texas vs Cali or Southern Ontario vs Alberta
I've been to almost every major north American city east, north and south of Denver. Winnipeg is by far the worst city I've ever been to. Filthy, expensive, everyone is poor, houses are in a irreparable state, roads are horrible, nobody has a clue how to drive, plus half the city can't even speak English, and the ones that don't, hate you for speaking English. I wouldn't send my enemies of war to Winnipeg, in fear of receiving a inhumane confinment conditions charge.
As for the players, I feel bad for the younger players for sure seeing great talent drafter then sitting on the bench or playing for the Moose. Look at success of Shieffle and Connor! Perhaps this is the year they shift back to youth development and stick with it. Also wish our arena was a tad bigger. I don't get why they stayed small when the football stadium is much bigger.
Drafting and development matter, and for way too long development of the blueline has taken a backseat come playoff time. It’s no accident that during the last nine playoff games the Jets have allowed at least four goals and have lost all but one of them.
@wainber1 very true. They need some help now but also for longer term. Loved watched The new draft Alfons Freij skate. He reminds me of Morrissey and is a very good offensive defenseman. He will be good for the Jets. But is there a window of opportunity that they are supported in AHL, but then brought to NHL within the window before they either go elsewhere or we miss out in bringing them up to caliber by means of playing with the big boys. Sometimes they need the time to learn first hand in big games rather than play it safe. Risk losing sile games while they learn. Can fans accept that?
@@nataliedeleon5735 I accept, as a follower of Canadian NHL teams including as a fan of non-Habs' ones (given how many Cups the Habs have post-1967 won) if playing contiguous US-based ones, the possibility 2 or more of the Canucks, Flames, Oilers, Jets, Leafs and Sens will lose in the opening round if they qualify for playoff action. That Kevin Cheveldayoff is, with his most-recent ex-Oiler counterpart, Ken Holland, having ceased being a GM of a Canadian NHL team and, like Chevy, appointed no later than the month before the 2019 NHL Entry Draft, the longest active serving GM of a Canadian NHL team, having served from June 2011. January 2022 was the 1st month to see, during a time span that would end last November, new GMs for each of the Habs (Kent Hughes), Canucks (Patrik Allvin), Flames (Craig Conroy), Leafs (Brad Treliving) and Sens (Steve Staios, a retired ex-Oilers' d-man). Under Chevy the Jets have: - won 3 playoff series - a 6-season-long conference final appearance drought - a 3-season-long playoff series win drought Maybe the Jets will need to tap into their farm system to enjoy greater playoff success because, among players who played in the 2023 or 2024 postseason and didn't draft or who, if (like with winger Andrei Kuzmenko with respect to the Canucks) not drafted by the Jets, didn't before then play under contract to another NHL team, during the postseason of: - 2023: -- d-man Neal Pionk, who'd started his NHL career (his having been, like Kuzmenko [albeit having played in the contiguous US rather than Russia], undrafted) with the NYR, put up 7 points (all assists) over 5 games but had a horrendous -6 -- winger Blake Wheeler (drafted by the Yotes [the original Jets] in 2004) put up 6 points (2 goals) over 5 games with a +2 -- centre PLD (drafted by the CBJ in 2016) put up 4 points (2 goals) over 5 games but with a not-so-good -4 -- winger Nino Niederreiter (drafted by the Isles in 2010) put up 4 points (1 goal) over 5 games but with a horrendous -7 -- winger Saku Mäenalanen (drafted by the Preds in 2013), assisted, over 5 games played, on a goal but: --- didn't score --- had a 0 +/- (better than quite a few of his teammates) --- became an unrestricted free agent that July before having secured a brief preseason professional tryout with the Avs, with his having chosen to sign with a team in Switzerland's highest men's pro league after having failed a physical exam before the Avs had released him -- d-man Nate Schmidt assisted on 2 goals over 5 games but didn't have such a good +/- (-2) -- centre Vlad Namestnikov (drafted in 2011 by the Bolts) put up 2 points (both assists) over 5 games with a 0 +/- -- d-man Dylan DeMelo (drafted by the Sharks in 2011) put up 2 points (both assists) over 5 games with a -1 -- centre Kevin Stenlund (drafted by the CBJ in 2015) put up a +1 but put up just 1 point (a goal) over 5 games -- centre-winger Morgan Barron (drafted by the NYR in 2017) played 5 games but neither put up a point in any of them nor put up a good +/- (indeed his was a -6, no doubt horrendous) -- d-man Brenden Dillon assisted on a goal over 5 games but with a not-so-good -3 - 2024 (over 5 games unless otherwise noted): -- centre-winger Gabe Vilardi (acquired last offseason from the Kings' team that had drafted him) put up 4 points (all assists) but at -4 had a horrendous +/- -- B. Dillon assisted on 3 goals over 3 games and had a +1 -- winger Tyler Toffoli (drafted by the Kings in 2010) put up 2 points (both goals) with a not-great -2 -- Niederreiter assisted on 2 goals with nonetheless a horrendous -5 -- Schmidt scored a goal over 3 games but with his +/- having matched Niederreiter's -- Namestnikov scored a goal over 4 games but with a sub-zero +/- as well (-3) -- Pionk having put up a point (assist) but with a -2 -- centre-winger Alex Iafallo, who'd started his NHL career with the Kings (having been, like Kuzmenko, undrafted), put up a point (assist) over 5 games with a -1 -- centre Sean Monahan (drafted in 2013 by the Flames), like Iafallo, assisted on a goal but also ended up with a -1 -- DeMelo had the same point and +/- stats as Iafallo and Monahan The Jets last month had 4 draft picks, in the respective 2nd (37th overall), 4th (109th overall), 5th (155th overall) and 6th (187th overall) rounds, having used such picks to draft: - Swedish d-man Alfons Freij, fresh off a season in the Allsvenskan league - Mainland Chinese (Beijing-born) winger Kevin He, fresh off a season with the Niagara IceDogs of the Ontario Hockey League - Finland-born centre Markus Loponen, fresh off a season in the SM Liiga - Canadian centre Kireon Walton, fresh off a season with the Sudbury Wolves of the OHL None of the above names had been, before this Sunday evening Central Daylight Time, familiar ones unlike: - Logan Stankoven, who'd played for Canada's under-20 men's (World Junior) team one time - Macklin Celebrini, who'd played at least 1 tourney with Canada's under-18 men's team - Adam Fantilli, who like Celebrini had played at least 1 tourney with Canada's U18 men's team - Vasili Podkolzin, who'd played once for Russia's WJC team (and would be drafted in the top-10 by the Canucks during his NHL Draft year) - Yaroslav Askarov, who'd played for the same team as Podkolzin - Klim Kostin, who'd played for the same WJC team - Jesper Wallstedt, who'd played for the Swedish WJC team in 2021 and is currently under contract to the MN Wild via the AHL's Iowa Wild - Dalibor Dvorsky, who played for the Slovak 2022 WJC team and is currently under contract to the St. Louis Blues but also to the Sudbury Wolves - Carson Bjarnason, who played for the Canadian 2023 U18 men's team during the relevant IIHF tourney and would later sign a contract to play for the Flyers (a 2-way one given the entry-level nature of that contract) Time will tell how many Jets' draftees, if picked during or after the 2020 NHL Entry Draft, will see NHL regular-season or playoff minutes. Who would've for instance thought that Arturs Silovs, who the Vancouver Canucks had drafted, would suddenly go from having played in over 30 AHL regular-season games to playing 10 NHL playoff ones in the same season? Before last NHL postseason he'd only ever played at that elite level in 9 games (all regular-season ones), 4 of them this past season. Yes Silovs' save % was sub-90.0 but only slightly so at 89.8. It's not like Thatcher Demko will be around forever (with 2 seasons left on his existing contract, and no clarity yet, unlike with Hellebuyck, of wanting to sign another contract to play for his NHL Draft team). The Jets, if they are going to enjoy playoff success, will need to play a more defensively-responsible game. How soon if ever the Jets again do so in the postseason remains TBD, with, of Canada's NHL teams last postseason the: - Leafs' having allowed
the salary cap should be calculated on a sliding scale which is determined by the tax burdens of each team. buttman knows it and so do the 78% of the league that is south of the 49th. the NHL is a bush league till they make this right.
I wish the NHL had a mechanism in place that pooled all player taxes together, as a percentage of all player income, and withdrew that percentage from all players to cover the tax bill in both Canada and the USA. It would level the playing field for all teams and taxes would no longer influence their choice of where to play
This guy needs a better tax advisor/lawyer. This video certainly qualifies as mis-information. Failures to address issues and/or adjust to realities will spread like wildfire amongst players. The issues are internal.. FA's are CHOOSING to go to Edmonton Toronto and even (the worst tax place) Montreal and Vancouver.
It's too bad the Jets don't have the pull of an Original Six team. The tax rate is even higher in Québec but I don't think it affects the Canadiens quite as much.
@@pieroscaramuzzi9917 To what degree having French as Quebec's only official language may be a turnoff isn't clear but what is is that the Habs have won 4 post-2019 playoff series while the Jets have won just ONE (a 2021 sweep of the Oilers).
@@wainber1 Are you seriously trying to make an argument that this is not a negative that Montreal has to deal with. Also like Winnipeg, Montreal is cold in the Winter.
@@pieroscaramuzzi9917 What did the Habs have, during their 2021 North Division stint, that the Jets haven't had at ANY point following their 2018 conference final appearance? Not just ONE, but MULTIPLE, playoff series wins in a season.
The Canadian owners along with the high tax owners from US States to get together and force the salary cap to be net, not gross. I mean it's what you take home that matters.
He knows Americans dont want to play here but continues to draft them instead of WHL players. Readon is the Jets have to pay 50k to the junior team if the player is signed.
I think it’s incredible that Winnipeg can ice such a great team despite the cold, crime and taxes. Imagine how good they could be without the impediments
The Jets last season were an excellent regular-season team, having put up 110 points over 82 relevant games, good enough for a points % of 67³⁄₄₁. The 2021 North Division stint of the Leafs resulted in a P% of 68¾ (77 points over 56 games). Both teams lost in the opening round during the relevant postseason, with the Leafs' having lost to the Habs in 7 games and Jets' to the Avs in just FIVE. On average per game the Leafs, in that 2021 series, allowed TWO while the Jets allowed, excluding empty-netters, 4⅘ (5⅗ with empty-netters). While during the Habs-Leafs 2021 series the Leafs gave up at least 3 goals in 3 games, the Leafs gave up 4 or more goals in just ONE: a 4-3 OT loss. 4 games in that 2021 series were decided by 1 goal while the 2024 Avs-Jets series featured only ONE game decided by that few: a 7-6 regulation win by the Jets over the Avs.
All of the misgivings this off-season are due to the lens of which the players are seen through - which is grading and deploying players based on ability or 'value' rather than valuing people based on performance. Guys like Mony, Ehlers, Brossoit, Schmidt, Dylan are apparently expendable, whereas Scheif, Connor, Helle, Pionk, DeMelo are considered indispensable. But is that really reality? The 'worse' group is actually more dynamic, and head to head I'd take Mony and Ehlers over Scheif Connor, and Brossoit over Helle. For the same reason why we saw Corry Perry in another Stanley Cup final. That reason is the same reason why communism fails in every attempt, and Donald Trump can be president of the United States. It's not who you think is the nicest guy, with the most talent who does the best, it the guy who doesn't take no for an answer and breaks the rules who wins.
The Jets are a deeply flawed team, having won just 3 playoff series since relocation from Atlanta, with: 2 of them in their 1 and only conference final appearance (2018); the other, via a 2021 sweep of the Oilers. After 9 straight playoff games of 4 or more goals allowed, wasn't the Jets' long offseason, which started in early-May, the time to make those radical changes? Throwing defence under the bus will only get a team so far in the postseason, and a 1-8 record over their past 9 games is proof that the approach Kevin Cheveldayoff, who remains the ONLY Canadian NHL team GM still appointed in the 2010s (with Ken Holland having finished his last of 5 seasons as Oilers' GM only last month), and whose enablers over at True North Sports and Entertainment (the Jets' ownership group) have allowed him to take simply hasn't worked.
@@wainber1The team mindset is like Boxer's, the horse from 'Animal Farm'. Boxer's primary traits were, trusting, hard working, and limited intelligence. The farm owners sold him to be slaughtered because they needed more whiskey, but before that he always tried to solve every problem by working harder. The problem with trying to solve a problem with hard work is, like the horse, it makes you bind, the harder you go the more narrow your vision, and the less choices that you have. You need to be able to have all directions available to you, including reverse. When you are always the one making moves, you never can see what your opponent is doing. You have to stop moving before you can make your opponent make the first move. It's like that old saying, "Who can (make) the muddy water (clear)? Let it be still, and it will gradually become clear." When you're constantly racing, you never realize that what you're chasing is your own tail.
Be interesting to see the take or reaction of manitoba government officials on this about tax ans business. I think the same goes for everything. Too much tax keeps things smaller. They don't unserstsnd the mindset of American capitalism and they really need to in order to grow. They keep it small on purpose I suppose. Only the ones who want to be here stay. The rest vanish.
Important part to note is that the taxes between Vegas and Winnipeg were similar until the Provincial/State tax was factored in. As much as I hate Trudeau voting him out probably wouldn’t change anything with this situation.
All other problems are fixable except for TAXES! Judging by your introduction I thought you were going to skip that, but you did a good job with the comparisons. Does that mean a player making 10 mil a season would pay 5 million a year? All that money to pay for a bloated bureaucracy in both local and federal woke programs that do jack shit for anyone. God we are all dying a slow death up here...... how depressing.
You're pointing to two players. One who was a bottom 6 player that signed back in 2016. And the other only signed in 2020, after not being signed after a terrific 2018 playoff run. Name a top 4 d-man who signed with the Jets as a free agent? Or a top 6 forward who signed as a free agent?
@@pomerlain8924 Perreault was only a bottom 6 forward later in his career. When he signed with the Jets, he was a top 6 forward, so he's the answer to your question, as is Paul Stastny- who was always a Top 6 forward with the Jets!
All Canadian teams will face disadvantages of stupidly high taxes under Justin Trudeau. As a Sens fan myself, I also have a pretty strong stance in that regard.
I think it is the toxicity as well of the locker room. It is no secret how Scheifele,, Wheeler and others treated Patrick Laine. Even the toxic remarks of the goalie when PLD got traded was a red flag. They have a few bad apples in the room. The rest of the leagues players do not want the stress. I think if they worked on changing their culture a bit , It would go a long way. People can handle the cold and taxes if the team atmosphere is awesome. If it is a stressful bully fest of jocks though, Players will seek other places.
Are you sure it's not the toxic fan base throwing their own players under the bus year after year? He was talking smack in the off season and somehow he is the one getting bullied lmao. Another thing is how the heck does anyone know it wasn't Lowry saying get rid of Laine or Morrissey or helly. I like Laine but he isn't even playing now and it was good he got traded when he did. Did you think it was toxic when the kings did the same thing to pld?
Yeah Indians help their cause by being responsible for 80% of the crime in the province and only make up 12% of the population. Add to that unemployment, dropping out of school and crying racism every time they fail themselves and you have a recipe for distain.
Wow..half of the salary is gone from taxes is just crazy and I don't blame the players for not coming to Canada ! 😮😮😮🙄
All Canadians are taxed too much. Leafs give their players big signing bonus to even out the huge taxes, they have lots money to do this.
It's not just players, it's normal citizens get that too.
Canada is one of the most expensive places on the plant to live in. And for absolutely zero reason, we get treated like shit here. Zero life in return for said tax dollars.
I hope you all enjoy, this was one of the more interesting research videos I've put together.
Help me if I am wrong, but if I am paid in USD (like all NHL players are, even if they are in Canada), but all my family expenses are in Canadian funds, is that not approximately a 30% difference right there (because of exchange)? I can assure you that coupled with the fact that a family doctor in Vegas costs an arm and a leg and that costs in Vegas for residents are legit higher than Winnipeg, even in USD vs CAD, it isn't what you think it is. I have been to Vegas twice in the last two years and we pay almost exactly the same in CAD as they do in USD (except there is a 30% difference). When you factor in available money after taxes, I would suspect you are looking at a top end difference of about $50-$60K and that doesn't include the aforementioned family doctor bills, any hospital trips, etc.
You have to factor exchange rate, players make usd so they earn 30% here it doesn't completely offset the taxes but it does a huge chunk
@@JamesHandle-ff4ov No, all their health care expenses would be paid for...they live in Canada. Their are less private expenses, thus more taxes (government carries out these services). If a player needs extra needs or their family member does...you can bet that the team would pay for those expenses.
FYI, you tax estimations were just wrong. Players pay taxes based on where they are playing on any given night. Their taxes each year are actually a fucking novel because they have to submit forms for every state and province they played in that year as well as U.S. and Canada. So while they will pay more than a Vegas player because they are going to play 41 games at home in Winnipeg, it's not as big of a difference as you showed. SDPN's show with an agent, Agent Provocateur, has a good episode on how it all shakes out. They also showed how it all doesnt matter as much as people talk about anyways. They pay the best accountants available to put their money into various investment vehicles to defer taxes to when they move to florida in retirement anyway.
You are partly right, but the income and tax that is calculated in other places has to be factored into where you reside. If you are deemed a resident of Manitoba you have to pay the Manitoba tax rate. So when you add up all the income tax paid to other jurisdictions it all still has to equal the tax you have to pay for the privilege of residing in Manitoba.
@@pieroscaramuzzi9917 Not the same percentage if you are incorporated.
Great video- but that background music is weird!!
The league needs to address this disparity.
The truths hurts great video
Reasons:
1. GM Chevy
2. Co-owner Mark Chipman
3. Brutal WinterPeg winters
4. High income tax rate
5. Unsafe around Canada Life Centre area
Players get paid in USD. Goes a long way in Canada.
Imagine playing a winter sport in a place that actually has winter?
Great organization. Affordable city. Plenty to do.
And no one signs in Winnipeg?
Laurent Brossoitx2
Mark Scheifele
Blake Wheeler
Connor Hellebuyck
Josh Morrissey
Kyle Connor
Nikolaj Ehlers
Plus countless other extensions.
NHL players are mostly just rich kids from rich homes that want to be celebrities.
This is a much better analysis.
Great work and well thought out video. Keep it up!
If we want an even playing field (err, paying field.....eerr, paying ice??) we would implement a cap system that normalizes for differences in taxation in different locations so the take-home for each player is the exact same regardless of where they're playing. That would be a huge help. Of course that won't happen, because the owners in the locations Gary wants the NHL to shine all have low or no state income taxes and much lower taxes overall. How else can we compete with that?
Taxes. The cold is bull. They play only half a season there. Some live year round others go home for the duration of the year.
I think that this is a fair video that does try and look at the WPG situation with free agents. My one pushback would be that the tax is just straight taxes calculated like you or I would pay. These athletes bring in a lot of money and therefor can leverage tax vehicles that the regular person can't. One example is the Retirement Compensation Agreements(RCA) that can return a significant amount of money to the player. If a player is actually paying the tax rates you described they either have a piss poor accountant or non at all.
All in all I think this a great video to start conversations like this to dig into the buisness side of the sport and recognize the unique challenges of our market and also potential advantages.
Can´t canadian teams unite and pressure NHL to balance cap so they can compete with US teams?
I mean, at the end of the day it just makes sense that the cap should be calculated on the amount the players actually get.
You hit the nail on the head. I’ve been saying the tax part for years. Calgary and Edmonton are not exactly picnic’s in the winter, but both cities are more economically vibrant and have a tax regime that is considerably cheaper than Winnipeg.
I'm in the minority that prefers cold weather to the scorching heat of somewhere like Florida.
Yes But the exchange rate add back about 30% because players are pay in USD and Canada is a lot safe the raise a family.
Most players can endure the cold weather if it is offset by being on a team that is competitive and if the tax burden is lessened. This is especially difficult in Canada with a federal government in power that is further Left than the NDP.
Oh BTW, @3:54 - You spelled development wrong.
There’s a perception that Commish Gary Bettman will not have a Canadian team win the Stanley Cup.
Jets ownership isn’t all in on trying to win the Cup.
GM Chevy is too cautious in his job.
A head coach hire is based on loyalty.
The team is too conservative.
Mark Chipman is always crying poverty.
I love the music
Great video. I think not signing in Winnipeg because it's "shit and dangerous" IMO is a lame reason, yes we don't have nightlife, we have a bad homeless problem but I was in Halifax this past Thanksgiving and saw a few tents spread out their downtown, it's not a Winnipeg thing! Taxes and cold weather are more believable.
Winnipeg is the smallest market and is not that close to other large market cities...this would be an issue. Other NHL cities are more connected and are 'known', have a 'perceived' nightlife and glamour.
develop team play with natural flow up and down ice, whoever can sign?
Brutal weather doesn't help...
No, but of metro areas with NHL teams, Winnipeg isn't the only one with brutal weather, with those of Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, NYC, Buffalo, Detroit, Minneapolis, Salt Lake City and Denver also long having had brutal winter weather. So how come the Jets have only won 1 post-2019 playoff series while the Canucks, NYR, Avs and Oilers have each won 3 or more?
@@wainber1 Canucks don't have brutal weather
@@JoelER78 Weather in BC's Lower Mainland has been brutal in places even if parts of Metro Vancouver don't get snow that often. Yet the Oilers, located in a part of the world with brutal weather, came last month within a goal of extending game 7 of the Stanley Cup final to OT. The Bolts by contrast, in a part of Florida with relatively mild winters, didn't come close to a Cup final last season.
All the players would probably be 'incorporated', and have a lot of advice from accountants, lawyers, etc. Thus, they would not be paying 50% in taxes...that'd be impossible.
They should be, and so should all rich people, but I would think that as rich and connected citizens that they could get away with it (if they are smart).
So, that argument is crap.
Canadians are NOT taxed too much because we get much needed services from those taxes (we could start to allocate those resources better, but that'd probably mean a more centralized government and citizens here are so regionalized).
In the USA you are still inadvertently taxed, it is just private taxes...you have to pay for services provided by private companies (more things are provided by private corporations in the USA). Which also makes life more expensive than in other developed countries (ex. paying for health care premiums). As a rich person this may not be an issue, but for a majority of citizens it is less than ideal.
The cold is bull (especially since some cities are much more humid, aka Montreal and Ottawa). They play only half a season there. Some live year round others go home for the duration of the year (and our Summers are getting hot!)
One issue may be that Winnipeg is a small city to go to and it is not close to other markets...that would be the only issue I see. Players that love the outdoors really enjoy playing/living in Winnipeg (Alex Iafallo).
If the province wants to even it out they could pass legislation to get rid of provincial tax on pro athletes.
Totally true. We just don’t have the money to get great players that’s why we’ll always be a mediocre team
Really? I went onto the Canada Revenue Agency website section on provincial and territorial income taxes but then to a Fidelity article on tax rates by province and territory for 2023 (titled "2023 Canadian income tax brackets"). Of the highest marginal tax rates (MTR) mentioned among those provinces with NHL teams:
- Quebec's was 25.75% (on taxable income [TI] exceeding CDN$119,910)
- BC's, 20.5% (on TI over CDN$240,716)
- Manitoba's, 17.4% (on TI over CDN$79,625)
- Alberta's, 15% (on TI over CDN$341,502)
- Ontario's, 13.16% (on TI over CDN$220,000)
For this calendar year, the highest MTR for:
- QC (on TI > CDN$126,000) is 25.75%
- BC (on TI > CDN$252,752), 20.5%
- MB (on TI > CDN$100,000), 17.4%
- AB (on TI > CDN$355,845), 15%
- ON (on TI > CDN$220,000), 13.16%
So how come the Canucks, despite their home province, of the 5 with NHL teams, having the 2nd-HIGHEST MTR, advanced to the 2nd round of the 2024 postseason while the Jets, based in a province with a lower MTR for the highest earners of TI, lasted only 5 games in the postseason? Part of that has to do with the lack of defensive awareness come playoff time, with the Jets' having played 9 straight relevant games during which they've allowed at least 4 goals and have gone just 1-8 over that time span.
Furthermore, among 5 Canadian provinces with NHL teams, Ontario has the LOWEST MTR on high-income earners, but with its NHL teams, from the 2019-20 season, having combined for ONE playoff series win: that by the Leafs in an April 2023 series against the Bolts. The Sens didn't make a post-2017 pre-2025 playoff appearance, having put up a regular-season points % of 50 or more just ONCE: during the 2022-23 season via 86 points over 82 games.
The Oilers' success in the postseason can't just all be on the 2nd-lowest MTR among Canadian provinces with NHL teams, right? Their 2024 Stanley Cup appearance had to do with having played, in 12 of 25 games, relatively defensively-responsible hockey, having gone 11-1 when they'd allowed under 3 goals/game. The Winnipeg Jets have, over their past NINE playoff games, allowed at least FOUR goals, with a 1-8 record that should've set off such huge alarm bells for RADICAL changes to the roster.
you only get taxed for home games tho so
Very good video for fans who don't understand
Even Nashville 0% Tampa,Florida,Vegas. Other teams have big advantages.
Not to mention house prices,schooling family life,weather. We are constantly murder capital or top 2 in Canada.
I know die hard winnipegers think their homes best but we are far behind other places.
Even politics US and Canada have different issues. US some states more conservative or Liberal say Texas vs Cali or Southern Ontario vs Alberta
I've been to almost every major north American city east, north and south of Denver.
Winnipeg is by far the worst city I've ever been to.
Filthy, expensive, everyone is poor, houses are in a irreparable state, roads are horrible, nobody has a clue how to drive, plus half the city can't even speak English, and the ones that don't, hate you for speaking English.
I wouldn't send my enemies of war to Winnipeg, in fear of receiving a inhumane confinment conditions charge.
Ok buddy what ever helps you sleep at night
As for the players, I feel bad for the younger players for sure seeing great talent drafter then sitting on the bench or playing for the Moose. Look at success of Shieffle and Connor! Perhaps this is the year they shift back to youth development and stick with it. Also wish our arena was a tad bigger. I don't get why they stayed small when the football stadium is much bigger.
Drafting and development matter, and for way too long development of the blueline has taken a backseat come playoff time. It’s no accident that during the last nine playoff games the Jets have allowed at least four goals and have lost all but one of them.
@wainber1 very true. They need some help now but also for longer term. Loved watched The new draft Alfons Freij skate. He reminds me of Morrissey and is a very good offensive defenseman. He will be good for the Jets. But is there a window of opportunity that they are supported in AHL, but then brought to NHL within the window before they either go elsewhere or we miss out in bringing them up to caliber by means of playing with the big boys. Sometimes they need the time to learn first hand in big games rather than play it safe. Risk losing sile games while they learn. Can fans accept that?
@@nataliedeleon5735 I accept, as a follower of Canadian NHL teams including as a fan of non-Habs' ones (given how many Cups the Habs have post-1967 won) if playing contiguous US-based ones, the possibility 2 or more of the Canucks, Flames, Oilers, Jets, Leafs and Sens will lose in the opening round if they qualify for playoff action. That Kevin Cheveldayoff is, with his most-recent ex-Oiler counterpart, Ken Holland, having ceased being a GM of a Canadian NHL team and, like Chevy, appointed no later than the month before the 2019 NHL Entry Draft, the longest active serving GM of a Canadian NHL team, having served from June 2011. January 2022 was the 1st month to see, during a time span that would end last November, new GMs for each of the Habs (Kent Hughes), Canucks (Patrik Allvin), Flames (Craig Conroy), Leafs (Brad Treliving) and Sens (Steve Staios, a retired ex-Oilers' d-man). Under Chevy the Jets have:
- won 3 playoff series
- a 6-season-long conference final appearance drought
- a 3-season-long playoff series win drought
Maybe the Jets will need to tap into their farm system to enjoy greater playoff success because, among players who played in the 2023 or 2024 postseason and didn't draft or who, if (like with winger Andrei Kuzmenko with respect to the Canucks) not drafted by the Jets, didn't before then play under contract to another NHL team, during the postseason of:
- 2023:
-- d-man Neal Pionk, who'd started his NHL career (his having been, like Kuzmenko [albeit having played in the contiguous US rather than Russia], undrafted) with the NYR, put up 7 points (all assists) over 5 games but had a horrendous -6
-- winger Blake Wheeler (drafted by the Yotes [the original Jets] in 2004) put up 6 points (2 goals) over 5 games with a +2
-- centre PLD (drafted by the CBJ in 2016) put up 4 points (2 goals) over 5 games but with a not-so-good -4
-- winger Nino Niederreiter (drafted by the Isles in 2010) put up 4 points (1 goal) over 5 games but with a horrendous -7
-- winger Saku Mäenalanen (drafted by the Preds in 2013), assisted, over 5 games played, on a goal but:
--- didn't score
--- had a 0 +/- (better than quite a few of his teammates)
--- became an unrestricted free agent that July before having secured a brief preseason professional tryout with the Avs, with his having chosen to sign with a team in Switzerland's highest men's pro league after having failed a physical exam before the Avs had released him
-- d-man Nate Schmidt assisted on 2 goals over 5 games but didn't have such a good +/- (-2)
-- centre Vlad Namestnikov (drafted in 2011 by the Bolts) put up 2 points (both assists) over 5 games with a 0 +/-
-- d-man Dylan DeMelo (drafted by the Sharks in 2011) put up 2 points (both assists) over 5 games with a -1
-- centre Kevin Stenlund (drafted by the CBJ in 2015) put up a +1 but put up just 1 point (a goal) over 5 games
-- centre-winger Morgan Barron (drafted by the NYR in 2017) played 5 games but neither put up a point in any of them nor put up a good +/- (indeed his was a -6, no doubt horrendous)
-- d-man Brenden Dillon assisted on a goal over 5 games but with a not-so-good -3
- 2024 (over 5 games unless otherwise noted):
-- centre-winger Gabe Vilardi (acquired last offseason from the Kings' team that had drafted him) put up 4 points (all assists) but at -4 had a horrendous +/-
-- B. Dillon assisted on 3 goals over 3 games and had a +1
-- winger Tyler Toffoli (drafted by the Kings in 2010) put up 2 points (both goals) with a not-great -2
-- Niederreiter assisted on 2 goals with nonetheless a horrendous -5
-- Schmidt scored a goal over 3 games but with his +/- having matched Niederreiter's
-- Namestnikov scored a goal over 4 games but with a sub-zero +/- as well (-3)
-- Pionk having put up a point (assist) but with a -2
-- centre-winger Alex Iafallo, who'd started his NHL career with the Kings (having been, like Kuzmenko, undrafted), put up a point (assist) over 5 games with a -1
-- centre Sean Monahan (drafted in 2013 by the Flames), like Iafallo, assisted on a goal but also ended up with a -1
-- DeMelo had the same point and +/- stats as Iafallo and Monahan
The Jets last month had 4 draft picks, in the respective 2nd (37th overall), 4th (109th overall), 5th (155th overall) and 6th (187th overall) rounds, having used such picks to draft:
- Swedish d-man Alfons Freij, fresh off a season in the Allsvenskan league
- Mainland Chinese (Beijing-born) winger Kevin He, fresh off a season with the Niagara IceDogs of the Ontario Hockey League
- Finland-born centre Markus Loponen, fresh off a season in the SM Liiga
- Canadian centre Kireon Walton, fresh off a season with the Sudbury Wolves of the OHL
None of the above names had been, before this Sunday evening Central Daylight Time, familiar ones unlike:
- Logan Stankoven, who'd played for Canada's under-20 men's (World Junior) team one time
- Macklin Celebrini, who'd played at least 1 tourney with Canada's under-18 men's team
- Adam Fantilli, who like Celebrini had played at least 1 tourney with Canada's U18 men's team
- Vasili Podkolzin, who'd played once for Russia's WJC team (and would be drafted in the top-10 by the Canucks during his NHL Draft year)
- Yaroslav Askarov, who'd played for the same team as Podkolzin
- Klim Kostin, who'd played for the same WJC team
- Jesper Wallstedt, who'd played for the Swedish WJC team in 2021 and is currently under contract to the MN Wild via the AHL's Iowa Wild
- Dalibor Dvorsky, who played for the Slovak 2022 WJC team and is currently under contract to the St. Louis Blues but also to the Sudbury Wolves
- Carson Bjarnason, who played for the Canadian 2023 U18 men's team during the relevant IIHF tourney and would later sign a contract to play for the Flyers (a 2-way one given the entry-level nature of that contract)
Time will tell how many Jets' draftees, if picked during or after the 2020 NHL Entry Draft, will see NHL regular-season or playoff minutes. Who would've for instance thought that Arturs Silovs, who the Vancouver Canucks had drafted, would suddenly go from having played in over 30 AHL regular-season games to playing 10 NHL playoff ones in the same season? Before last NHL postseason he'd only ever played at that elite level in 9 games (all regular-season ones), 4 of them this past season. Yes Silovs' save % was sub-90.0 but only slightly so at 89.8. It's not like Thatcher Demko will be around forever (with 2 seasons left on his existing contract, and no clarity yet, unlike with Hellebuyck, of wanting to sign another contract to play for his NHL Draft team).
The Jets, if they are going to enjoy playoff success, will need to play a more defensively-responsible game. How soon if ever the Jets again do so in the postseason remains TBD, with, of Canada's NHL teams last postseason the:
- Leafs' having allowed
the salary cap should be calculated on a sliding scale which is determined by the tax burdens of each team. buttman knows it and so do the 78% of the league that is south of the 49th. the NHL is a bush league till they make this right.
I wish the NHL had a mechanism in place that pooled all player taxes together, as a percentage of all player income, and withdrew that percentage from all players to cover the tax bill in both Canada and the USA. It would level the playing field for all teams and taxes would no longer influence their choice of where to play
This guy needs a better tax advisor/lawyer. This video certainly qualifies as mis-information.
Failures to address issues and/or adjust to realities will spread like wildfire amongst players. The issues are internal.. FA's are CHOOSING to go to Edmonton Toronto and even (the worst tax place) Montreal and Vancouver.
It's too bad the Jets don't have the pull of an Original Six team. The tax rate is even higher in Québec but I don't think it affects the Canadiens quite as much.
Yes it does, and they have the language issue that is also a turn off for many players.
@@pieroscaramuzzi9917 To what degree having French as Quebec's only official language may be a turnoff isn't clear but what is is that the Habs have won 4 post-2019 playoff series while the Jets have won just ONE (a 2021 sweep of the Oilers).
@@wainber1
Are you seriously trying to make an argument that this is not a negative that Montreal has to deal with. Also like Winnipeg, Montreal is cold in the Winter.
@@pieroscaramuzzi9917 What did the Habs have, during their 2021 North Division stint, that the Jets haven't had at ANY point following their 2018 conference final appearance? Not just ONE, but MULTIPLE, playoff series wins in a season.
@@wainber1
And yet still Montreal has difficulty attracting quality players.
The Canadian owners along with the high tax owners from US States to get together and force the salary cap to be net, not gross. I mean it's what you take home that matters.
That's treaty land they sould not pay taxes on this place everyone one will want to play for the jets
He knows Americans dont want to play here but continues to draft them instead of WHL players. Readon is the Jets have to pay 50k to the junior team if the player is signed.
The Jets will deny this.
Fuck the NHL
If your intent was to deflate and depress me you succeeded….
I think it’s incredible that Winnipeg can ice such a great team despite the cold, crime and taxes. Imagine how good they could be without the impediments
The Jets last season were an excellent regular-season team, having put up 110 points over 82 relevant games, good enough for a points % of 67³⁄₄₁. The 2021 North Division stint of the Leafs resulted in a P% of 68¾ (77 points over 56 games). Both teams lost in the opening round during the relevant postseason, with the Leafs' having lost to the Habs in 7 games and Jets' to the Avs in just FIVE. On average per game the Leafs, in that 2021 series, allowed TWO while the Jets allowed, excluding empty-netters, 4⅘ (5⅗ with empty-netters). While during the Habs-Leafs 2021 series the Leafs gave up at least 3 goals in 3 games, the Leafs gave up 4 or more goals in just ONE: a 4-3 OT loss. 4 games in that 2021 series were decided by 1 goal while the 2024 Avs-Jets series featured only ONE game decided by that few: a 7-6 regulation win by the Jets over the Avs.
All of the misgivings this off-season are due to the lens of which the players are seen through - which is grading and deploying players based on ability or 'value' rather than valuing people based on performance. Guys like Mony, Ehlers, Brossoit, Schmidt, Dylan are apparently expendable, whereas Scheif, Connor, Helle, Pionk, DeMelo are considered indispensable. But is that really reality? The 'worse' group is actually more dynamic, and head to head I'd take Mony and Ehlers over Scheif Connor, and Brossoit over Helle. For the same reason why we saw Corry Perry in another Stanley Cup final. That reason is the same reason why communism fails in every attempt, and Donald Trump can be president of the United States. It's not who you think is the nicest guy, with the most talent who does the best, it the guy who doesn't take no for an answer and breaks the rules who wins.
The Jets are a deeply flawed team, having won just 3 playoff series since relocation from Atlanta, with: 2 of them in their 1 and only conference final appearance (2018); the other, via a 2021 sweep of the Oilers. After 9 straight playoff games of 4 or more goals allowed, wasn't the Jets' long offseason, which started in early-May, the time to make those radical changes? Throwing defence under the bus will only get a team so far in the postseason, and a 1-8 record over their past 9 games is proof that the approach Kevin Cheveldayoff, who remains the ONLY Canadian NHL team GM still appointed in the 2010s (with Ken Holland having finished his last of 5 seasons as Oilers' GM only last month), and whose enablers over at True North Sports and Entertainment (the Jets' ownership group) have allowed him to take simply hasn't worked.
@@wainber1The team mindset is like Boxer's, the horse from 'Animal Farm'. Boxer's primary traits were, trusting, hard working, and limited intelligence. The farm owners sold him to be slaughtered because they needed more whiskey, but before that he always tried to solve every problem by working harder. The problem with trying to solve a problem with hard work is, like the horse, it makes you bind, the harder you go the more narrow your vision, and the less choices that you have. You need to be able to have all directions available to you, including reverse. When you are always the one making moves, you never can see what your opponent is doing. You have to stop moving before you can make your opponent make the first move. It's like that old saying, "Who can (make) the muddy water (clear)? Let it be still, and it will gradually become clear." When you're constantly racing, you never realize that what you're chasing is your own tail.
Be interesting to see the take or reaction of manitoba government officials on this about tax ans business. I think the same goes for everything. Too much tax keeps things smaller. They don't unserstsnd the mindset of American capitalism and they really need to in order to grow. They keep it small on purpose I suppose. Only the ones who want to be here stay. The rest vanish.
How about we over run Justin axe the tax and get guys to come to Winnipeg. I don’t want to play for a team that I would lose half my contract.
Important part to note is that the taxes between Vegas and Winnipeg were similar until the Provincial/State tax was factored in. As much as I hate Trudeau voting him out probably wouldn’t change anything with this situation.
All other problems are fixable except for TAXES! Judging by your introduction I thought you were going to skip that, but you did a good job with the comparisons. Does that mean a player making 10 mil a season would pay 5 million a year? All that money to pay for a bloated bureaucracy in both local and federal woke programs that do jack shit for anyone. God we are all dying a slow death up here...... how depressing.
Nobody wants to play for the Jets because Winnipeg is a terrible place to live live
Yeah sure bud
Its a terrible place because of negative people like you. If you’re not looking for bad things to complain about it’s amazing
Good the fewer that know the better
@neatmike7184 idk another city where downtown is a scary place to be
SOOOO true, dump
Wus!
Nobody wants to sign with the Winnipeg Jets? Tell that to Mathieu Perreault and Paul Stastny- among other players! Clickbait much?
You're pointing to two players. One who was a bottom 6 player that signed back in 2016. And the other only signed in 2020, after not being signed after a terrific 2018 playoff run.
Name a top 4 d-man who signed with the Jets as a free agent? Or a top 6 forward who signed as a free agent?
@@pomerlain8924 Perreault was only a bottom 6 forward later in his career. When he signed with the Jets, he was a top 6 forward, so he's the answer to your question, as is Paul Stastny- who was always a Top 6 forward with the Jets!
All Canadian teams will face disadvantages of stupidly high taxes under Justin Trudeau. As a Sens fan myself, I also have a pretty strong stance in that regard.
You’re blaming Trudeau? Give your head a shake. You’ve had too many pucks to the head
Bad haircuts.
I think it is the toxicity as well of the locker room. It is no secret how Scheifele,, Wheeler and others treated Patrick Laine. Even the toxic remarks of the goalie when PLD got traded was a red flag. They have a few bad apples in the room. The rest of the leagues players do not want the stress. I think if they worked on changing their culture a bit , It would go a long way. People can handle the cold and taxes if the team atmosphere is awesome. If it is a stressful bully fest of jocks though, Players will seek other places.
So criticizing your teammate's work ethic is a bad thing?
Are you sure it's not the toxic fan base throwing their own players under the bus year after year? He was talking smack in the off season and somehow he is the one getting bullied lmao. Another thing is how the heck does anyone know it wasn't Lowry saying get rid of Laine or Morrissey or helly. I like Laine but he isn't even playing now and it was good he got traded when he did. Did you think it was toxic when the kings did the same thing to pld?
If I was an nhler , I wouldn't want to be here either. Racist city against natives here it's shameful.
So untrue , Winnipeg just dont like pan handlers and drug addicted sleep in there bus shelters must of which are of a curtain culture.
Cry
@@EveryoneIsAnIdiotExceptForMe it's just proof I'm right . Thanks
Yeah Indians help their cause by being responsible for 80% of the crime in the province and only make up 12% of the population. Add to that unemployment, dropping out of school and crying racism every time they fail themselves and you have a recipe for distain.
Mb is a welfare province therefore lots of taxes incurred by these well paid individuals. I sure as hell wouldn't play here.
Do you have a problem with people on welfare?
Wouldn't last a second in Vancouver when it comes to homelessness