You have no idea how refreshing it is to hear someone talk about brass technique in a way that is logically consistent. My playing was ruined by teachers who blindly followed the "air is everything", "just relax" dogma. I was too young and ignorant at the time to realize how clueless they were. You are doing a great service to young players.
I believe that Jacobs would say that "just relax" is a limiting factor...a stimulus that doesn't belong. Might as well say, "Wiggle your toe." ("You can play in spite of it but not because of it.")
What I'm trying to say, at least as true for me, recovering from Embouchure Dystonia, is this: in my recovery, I often slid my mouthpiece into the receiver, NOT Buzzing, but allowing air flow only, and as the mp and horn connected, resonating sound appeared effortlessly. There is a pitch in my brain, with a sound concept in my imagination, and it sounds and feels so good. All my of thought process is comprised of this mantra: air lows through the bell, I do nothing else except imagine sound (am trying to suggest that the air flow, trombone, and concept, direct my lips how to buzz sympathetically with resonating column of air. Maybe this is only a concept that works for me, having suffered from spasmatically taut lips, tongue and solar plexus. I am relaxing every thing. I don't ever think of my embouchure per se, therefore. Of course, I received these concepts and the drills to accomplish my recovery from Janet Kagarice. I love your videos, Mr. Markey. Very thoughtfully presented, sir. I think my first reply should have been written in the first person. 😊
Thanks for sharing with us all! Could you tell something about your thoughts on how to teach embouchure? So man ways out there... I admire your playing on "Willow willow" and Sarabande from 2nd suite! So nice! I think even we bass trombone players forget it is a bass trombone....Merry Christmas!!
Very interesting, especially thinking about the instrument as "a resonator, not an amplifier". I'd like to focus on two reasons that playing the 'E' in first position results in bad tone. One is the mismatch between the pitch buzzed and the harmonics of the trombone in first position. The second is that the air column interacts with the vibrating lips, and not in a good way. This brings to mind a Scientific American issue, probably decades ago, which contrasted historic natural horns (from museums) with modern imitations. When an early music horn player used one of the historic horns, they could play notes between the harmonics. With the modern equivalent, it was much harder to get between the harmonics, and it didn't sound as good. The physical difference in the instruments was that the historic horns were hammered by hand, and had small indentations everywhere. (Ever see a ball peen hammer? The round end is used in metalworking.) The modern instruments were machined and smooth. My guess is that those small indentations probably affect the instrument's performance as a resonator. And this consequently interacts with the vibrating lips, allowing the "in between" notes to work.
Firstly, I sincerely appreciate such a fast and well thought response: THANK YOU. Second, I understand what you are saying but I disagree, but not wholeheartedly. There is a point in which we must learn to walk, it was not always a subconscious routine. I believe the goal is to learn EXACTLY what is fundamentally good, and practice that so that what is not good is easily recognized and averted so it doesn't become habit. I want to point my concerns towards the production of sound. what is the most fundamental aspect to make sure you are getting right so that when you start applying more complex layers on top you can figure out if it is 'that' being inconsistent, or if you need to experiment and figure out if it is one of those technical layers.
I love your videos but this video confuses me. For me buzzing the mouthpiece particularly without the tongue really helps me achieve a free flow of air (not much resistance) to half blocking (more resistance). What confuses me somewhat is your argument about buzzing and pitching the note E and them not matching up. Wouldn't it be better to do what Denson Paul Pollard suggests and match the pitch of mouthpiece with pitch of the note you are trying to play on either the trombone or indeed a keyboard?
This is a great video! However, here is a question for you. You say at first that air and embouchure are two sides of one coin. Then you follow it up by showing that your embouchure and the air in the horn (the resonator) are two sides of the same coin. You even show why "buzzing" is futile because of how bad the E in first sounds. This is all great! Every student needs to understand this. But why do you then say "the buzz is still important, because we have to buzz the right pitch" and then demonstrate the E harmonic series? This is a step backwards, to me. You aren't, as you just demonstrated and proved, "buzzing" those pitches in the harmonic series. You're resonating and entire system that includes the horn and your embouchure. Take away the horn and the "buzz" would go away instantly. Is not saying that the "buzz is still important" the same thing as slicing the coin in half? The two are inseparable, so to me my big takeaway from this video and so many others (Christian's buzz video for example) is that no, the buzz is not important. The system as a whole is what is important. Try gluing a coin back together after you slice it. It won't spend.
I understand your question, and certainly about my terminology. In an effort to not be too wordy, sometimes we choose words to simplify meaning but don’t quite get to the heart of the issue. No matter what language one uses, there is ultimately something that’s in control of what note we play - and that’s us! What this video shows is that since we can get a number of different notes in any given position, and that the higher up we go, the closer the notes come, we ourselves are the ones who control which note we actually produce. It is not random, and it’s not controlled exclusively by the instrument - determined to a degree by what will resonate of course, but not completely in the instrument’s command. That’s where we come in. The followup idea then, is that if we can control which note resonates through the the instrument based on what the instrument allows through the harmonic series, BUT that we can influence that to a degree, it also follows that we can determine more than just what a perfect note sounds like: we can also determine where exactly we place that note - whether resonating well or not resonating well, whether “brighter or darker”, whether “in tone” or “not in tone”. In this video, I chose the word buzz, but you could also say that the shape or size of the aperture makes the difference; regardless the terminology, the point is the same. The point of the video is to realize that there is a balance between these two aspects: it’s neither “all about the buzz”, or buzzing the mouthpiece, because that in itself is quite different from actually playing an instrument. But it’s not all about the air, because if we blow air through the instrument we’ll get....well...just air! We need the vibration from the lips to create the speed of pulses in the air that give us sound. And that’s where our control becomes extremely important. How does one define control? The truth is, for the most part, by staying out of the way of the process of the actual vibration happening, and simply allowing the instrument to resonate while we determine where on the series it does so.
You have no idea how refreshing it is to hear someone talk about brass technique in a way that is logically consistent. My playing was ruined by teachers who blindly followed the "air is everything", "just relax" dogma. I was too young and ignorant at the time to realize how clueless they were. You are doing a great service to young players.
I undestand you, bro!
Amen! Too much sophistry and pseudoscience in brass pedagogy! Especially when you're trying to work through problems!
I believe that Jacobs would say that "just relax" is a limiting factor...a stimulus that doesn't belong. Might as well say, "Wiggle your toe." ("You can play in spite of it but not because of it.")
Great video, thanks for addressing both sides of the debate!
"If we take the air in the way we want a note to sound we'll breathe properly." (Ian Bousfield)
Love the simple explanation.
The Brain knows what to do . . . Hear the sound, allow air to go through the bell, expecting sound.
What I'm trying to say, at least as true for me, recovering from Embouchure Dystonia, is this: in my recovery, I often slid my mouthpiece into the receiver, NOT Buzzing, but allowing air flow only, and as the mp and horn connected, resonating sound appeared effortlessly. There is a pitch in my brain, with a sound concept in my imagination, and it sounds and feels so good. All my of thought process is comprised of this mantra: air lows through the bell, I do nothing else except imagine sound (am trying to suggest that the air flow, trombone, and concept, direct my lips how to buzz sympathetically with resonating column of air. Maybe this is only a concept that works for me, having suffered from spasmatically taut lips, tongue and solar plexus. I am relaxing every thing. I don't ever think of my embouchure per se, therefore. Of course, I received these concepts and the drills to accomplish my recovery from Janet Kagarice. I love your videos, Mr. Markey. Very thoughtfully presented, sir. I think my first reply should have been written in the first person. 😊
Hi Bruce, how is your recovery progressing?
I listen with interest as it sounds like your symptoms exactly mirror mine.
And thank you Mr M for your inspiring post.
@@pauljohnson6233
I have the same problem , my embouchure feels weird and tight,and I have spasm on upper lip.
Terrific video!
Thanks for sharing with us all! Could you tell something about your thoughts on how to teach embouchure? So man ways out there...
I admire your playing on "Willow willow" and Sarabande from 2nd suite! So nice! I think even we bass trombone players forget it is a bass trombone....Merry Christmas!!
Thousand times thank you
Nicely done!
Very interesting, especially thinking about the instrument as "a resonator, not an amplifier".
I'd like to focus on two reasons that playing the 'E' in first position results in bad tone. One is the mismatch between the pitch buzzed and the harmonics of the trombone in first position. The second is that the air column interacts with the vibrating lips, and not in a good way.
This brings to mind a Scientific American issue, probably decades ago, which contrasted historic natural horns (from museums) with modern imitations. When an early music horn player used one of the historic horns, they could play notes between the harmonics. With the modern equivalent, it was much harder to get between the harmonics, and it didn't sound as good.
The physical difference in the instruments was that the historic horns were hammered by hand, and had small indentations everywhere. (Ever see a ball peen hammer? The round end is used in metalworking.) The modern instruments were machined and smooth.
My guess is that those small indentations probably affect the instrument's performance as a resonator. And this consequently interacts with the vibrating lips, allowing the "in between" notes to work.
That's it. All my students have to subscribe to your channel now.
this is helpfull thx so much
You are a new hero of mine😬
And you’re very kind! Thank you...
which mouthpiece do you play ??? GRIEGO ... and model
So do you think that Toby using rim buzzing is good practice?
Jim Markey Thank You for your response! Have a Merry Christmas!
Jon Annesley what did he say?
"..so much of it is out of our control.." exactly what is out of our control as players?
Firstly, I sincerely appreciate such a fast and well thought response: THANK YOU. Second, I understand what you are saying but I disagree, but not wholeheartedly. There is a point in which we must learn to walk, it was not always a subconscious routine. I believe the goal is to learn EXACTLY what is fundamentally good, and practice that so that what is not good is easily recognized and averted so it doesn't become habit. I want to point my concerns towards the production of sound. what is the most fundamental aspect to make sure you are getting right so that when you start applying more complex layers on top you can figure out if it is 'that' being inconsistent, or if you need to experiment and figure out if it is one of those technical layers.
マーキーホーンか...
羨ましい...
Everything can't everything.
I love your videos but this video confuses me. For me buzzing the mouthpiece particularly without the tongue really helps me achieve a free flow of air (not much resistance) to half blocking (more resistance). What confuses me somewhat is your argument about buzzing and pitching the note E and them not matching up. Wouldn't it be better to do what Denson Paul Pollard suggests and match the pitch of mouthpiece with pitch of the note you are trying to play on either the trombone or indeed a keyboard?
This is a great video! However, here is a question for you. You say at first that air and embouchure are two sides of one coin. Then you follow it up by showing that your embouchure and the air in the horn (the resonator) are two sides of the same coin. You even show why "buzzing" is futile because of how bad the E in first sounds. This is all great! Every student needs to understand this.
But why do you then say "the buzz is still important, because we have to buzz the right pitch" and then demonstrate the E harmonic series? This is a step backwards, to me. You aren't, as you just demonstrated and proved, "buzzing" those pitches in the harmonic series. You're resonating and entire system that includes the horn and your embouchure. Take away the horn and the "buzz" would go away instantly. Is not saying that the "buzz is still important" the same thing as slicing the coin in half? The two are inseparable, so to me my big takeaway from this video and so many others (Christian's buzz video for example) is that no, the buzz is not important. The system as a whole is what is important. Try gluing a coin back together after you slice it. It won't spend.
I understand your question, and certainly about my terminology. In an effort to not be too wordy, sometimes we choose words to simplify meaning but don’t quite get to the heart of the issue.
No matter what language one uses, there is ultimately something that’s in control of what note we play - and that’s us! What this video shows is that since we can get a number of different notes in any given position, and that the higher up we go, the closer the notes come, we ourselves are the ones who control which note we actually produce. It is not random, and it’s not controlled exclusively by the instrument - determined to a degree by what will resonate of course, but not completely in the instrument’s command. That’s where we come in.
The followup idea then, is that if we can control which note resonates through the the instrument based on what the instrument allows through the harmonic series, BUT that we can influence that to a degree, it also follows that we can determine more than just what a perfect note sounds like: we can also determine where exactly we place that note - whether resonating well or not resonating well, whether “brighter or darker”, whether “in tone” or “not in tone”. In this video, I chose the word buzz, but you could also say that the shape or size of the aperture makes the difference; regardless the terminology, the point is the same.
The point of the video is to realize that there is a balance between these two aspects: it’s neither “all about the buzz”, or buzzing the mouthpiece, because that in itself is quite different from actually playing an instrument. But it’s not all about the air, because if we blow air through the instrument we’ll get....well...just air! We need the vibration from the lips to create the speed of pulses in the air that give us sound. And that’s where our control becomes extremely important. How does one define control? The truth is, for the most part, by staying out of the way of the process of the actual vibration happening, and simply allowing the instrument to resonate while we determine where on the series it does so.
@@markeybone Brilliant. Thank you!