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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ย. 2024
- 1000mms@50K ... with all the external mounts..belts..bearings and that steel 8mm shaft that I still need to cut to size.
I think it's safe to say that Servos are not needed for Unicorn speed anymore. unless you can't deal with the noise. dang it! they are loud at that speed. Servos are quiet but have other issues.
in another video I'll explain more why I decided to remove my servos.
Now I'm allowed in the official speedboat challenge ;)
If you wish to buy this awesome 48V ready board: s.click.aliexp...
5160HV drivers: s.click.aliexp...
VzBoT web site: github.com/VzB...
If you wish to support my work, it really encourages me to continue to enhance the printer and make more content: ko-fi.com/vez3d
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Or use this code: SIMOV5
THANKS !! and cheers !! RUM FOR EVERYONE !! :)
Sometimes I try to pull stray bits of filament out of the way mid print, I think if I did that with that machine I'd lose an arm haha
LOL I do the same thing so yeah, let's uh...
...well, the print will be done before strays are a problem. LMFAO
mee to
@dorpz servos would be worse. They can sense when there’s resistance and add more power.
I've learned my lesson doing that last time, it was doing some precise movements then suddenly it made a fast shift, the print head impaled my finger against part of the print, lost steps, my finger hurt like hell and had to scrap the print job. No more fiddling when it goes around.
haha, wow. the speed is ok, whats really nice is that everything is rock steady. that hotend is dancing with grace and precision.
This!
@@BigfootPrinting Ehm...his machine is mounted against a wall of his house with big screws. This absorbs 99.9% of the momentum of the printhead. If something other than the printhead would move he likely has some other problems than the rigidity of his printer ;)
"the speed is ok" 😂 wut.
Magic 1000 on steppers 😍😍😍 Congrats on that up-/downgrade(?)! I would be really eager to see the gain in acceleration comparing 24V to 48V
Voltage only affects maximum speed, not acceleration.
@@TheNamelessOne12357 available power at a given speed* as it's less saturated, it has more torque allowing higher acceleration
@@TheNamelessOne12357 Actually it would be the other way around. Allows for much faster acceleration and deceleration. Everybody can have crazy speed, but wait till you hit a corner.
@@FrozenHaxor it's sorta both... you will be able to have higher accels at higher speeds, but at low speeds it wont make a difference
I don't 3d print, but I love your content and scientific approach to solving problems.
I'd love to see a video on the nuts and bolts of setting up/wiring the board, drivers, and PSU(s) for this, if you get a chance. Thanks for sharing the idea and parts links!
I don't really know much about 3D printing or CNC cutting at all.... Buuut I know good engineering when I see it!
Nice work, stranger! That print/cut head looks stable as heckin under those G forces.
I toss you the finest tomato as a sign of my barely valid appreciation!
That's a sick beat you're laying down, bro!
Never thought I'd see a 3d printer that could snap bones in half. Nice work.
Also, my god that looks steady for the speed it's moving at.
This won’t snap an arm… it might severely hurt the arm of a cripple, but not an average arm. Seriously, c’mon now, are you deliberately trying to sound like a fucking moron, cause you’d think so with a dumbass statement like that. You would have to find someone with severe osteoporosis, like a person with a bone density below -3 for it to even come close. 😂
The frame is bolted to the wall
cant wait to see your explanation video for removing servos. cheers Body :D
I could just watch this on loop 🤩
…ummm… wtf when did that thing get THAT DAMN FREAKING fast. It’s like “I’m fast as fuck”, “I’m fast AF boy”….. damn dude keep up the amazing improvements and videos documenting it.
Are the steppers running closed loop?
would be nice to see a real world quantifiable test to compare steppers at 12/24/36/48/60 Volts.
Here comes the hot stepper! (I'm the lyrical gangsta)
Been running TMC2100 at 40V for ages... Works great, even on a bed slinger ;)
Well well well…. I’ve been thinking about building VORON but I should try this…
A 48v Voron? haha
fdavpach why not? Mine is :)
Wow good stuff Simon! So you reckon 55v TMC5160pro + LDO/E3D motors perform on-par with your ODrive setup? I'm waiting to get the 42sth47-2504ac ones from Ratrig. Supply shortages!!
I've got a spare 48v psu so I ordered 2 of those 5160HV drivers. I'm going to stick it on an SKR1.4 (I'll cut ground and +mot on driver boards and run the +48 to the pins sticking out the top. They're only SPI so, I think I'll have to add all 4 jumpers to the left). Then I'll have to remove the cap or relocate a 60v unit elsewhere. WIsh me luck!
Very impressive. 👏👏👏👏
damn fast, nice : ) my ender 3 looks like it breaks down every minute when i print with 200mms@5k ^^
I use a Hemera direct drive dual gear Extruder with a 0.6 Bondtech CHT® nozzle
Impressive !! Congrats Sir.
One question if I may : Since I did not find your video related to the explanation of your BLDC motor "abandonment" choice, will it be possible to know what were your main reasons ? Is it related to heat issues from the ODrive driver ? Tunning difficulties ? Or ODrive stepping (pulse) rate limitation ? I will really apreciate your feedback regarding that :) Thanks in advance !
step pulse limitation but new version has fixed that.. and myabe firmware update too.. but I wanted to run the same setup as my community runs and, and since the new LDO motors and 48v are now a thing.. .servos are not needed anymore I think. Unless noise is the factor for you
@@Vez3D ugh, I had just went down the BLDC rabbithole on youtube too..well back to thinking about 48v quad steppers lol
I shit my pants. Currently building a speedy 250 trident with those motors on 48v.😅😄
Love seeing the progress. Seems like it's never enough for you which is a great way to innovate.
Question: I noticed you use the magnum now vs the nova in the BOM. What was your reason for switching?
more flow.... more speed :) Nova is good and light.. but max out arround 40-50mm3/s
@@Vez3D max out around 40-50 wtf that's still high lol. I'm used to ender 3 speeds.
Wow, that is quick... I think those are the ones that Toms3D also has in his Voron 2.4 (TMC5160 IIRC)...
Sounds like an old matrix primter
God damn that's quick
its not quick at all, that video is sped up. if it was moving that fast FOR STARTERS. the cables would be flinging all over the place and yet they dont. in YT. try reducing the play back speed to .75 and you will quickly see it look more normal.
@@berinslaptop It does seem kind of hard to tell but I don't think its sped up, those belts are probably just extremely tight, and its a thick cable so it doesn't want to flex and get flung everywhere, also you can see the camera and his hand moving a bit sometimes.
@@berinslaptop I'm on the admin team and have seen lots of similar videos . please sit down, shut up
@@berinslaptop it's real time. No need to prove this. It's not THAT uncommon. Several printers out there are capable.
Nicely done! Did you tune stepper drivers for these steppers?
The sound! :))
That's steppers? Awesome performance! I have close loop steppers on my 48V system for cnc machine, so I guess 48V for 3d printers is a way to go! 👍🏻
I just spent 500 dollars on a closed loop system with two steppers for x and y. It is the way to go
awesome so i dont need buy servo.. what name is those stepper motors? LDO?
Very fast. How important is the closed-loop aspect of the servos for accuracy compared to this setup?
Not important at all. Only important if you lose steps.. but the goal is not to lose steps anyway hehe
"How fast is your 3D printer?"
"Yes"
HOLY SMOKES !!
Hey you got any sample prints of things you've made with this to show?
I like to see fast, but I'd also wanna see the quality it could too while fast.
CoreXY vs crossXY? Looks like less moving mass with corexy, however, what is the belt stretchyness like in this config?
Drunk test:
"Follow my finger"
*the guy's finger:*
Speed is good, but acceleration and jerk are more important. That said, this machine looks plenty rigid and running steppers at their proper voltage (i.e. 48V) improves everything.
No such things as jerk in klipper
wow that's insane
I have put DM542T driver on my printer. Mainly since I think they are more quite than any other stepper sticks.
looks interesting and not expensive, are they easy to use with common Klipper BTT boards?
@@T0tenkampf It seemed to work to connect the DM542 directly to the BTT SKR Pro 1.1 board.
Unfortunately I can not say if they are good or bad since my printer is still not finished. But the small tests I did 1 year ago I think showed me that they might give less vibrations coming from the motor compared to TMC2209.
I thought it was a Big Shot meme for a second
meanwhile i just sheared off my nozzle in the heater block so I'm giving up for a while
From a 48 volt power supply, how many amps are needed for the two stepper motors?
that sound remembers me of big shot from deltarune
It's amazing how little 3d printing folks know about motion control systems. I was wondering why noone is running steppers with 36, 48 or even higher voltages. My cnc has been running on 72v@8A per coil for more than 15 years, nema42 here ;) . You can run it even higher but finding a cheap driver that goes beyond 80v at more than 8A per coil will be difficult. PSU also become harder to find.
Also if you want more accelerarion try lowering microstepping to what's barely necessary to achieve the desired resolution.
Basically your microstepping setting should at least depend on your nozzle size. Well maybe not always but you get the point.
Also try lowering the current for less ringing, you don't need 2A with such small steppers at 40v. Also lowering microstepping lets you run faster due to lowering the step rate. But check your drivers minimum pulse duration on that one.
It seems that 100ns is the minimum so maybe 100 revs/s on your stepper shaft at 256 microsteps. If it's a 20 tooth gt2 pulley and belt then I'd call that cca 2000 mm/s.
Not sure if your controller can churn out 2x5mhz steps though...
>It's amazing how little 3d printing folks know about motion control systems
It's not surprising at all really. 3D printers have rapidly become hobbyist toys that are extremely accessible now. This would be the first foray into electronics, let alone motion control systems, for at least 90% of those people. Just take a look at Prusa/Reddit creality forums and you'll see daily questions about very basic stuff, with less than 1% of those posts being anything remotely close to things like voltages for steppers. Over half of those users probably don't even know what kind of stepper drivers they are running with, let alone the voltages they require.
I just looked at your CNC router bro, stop the knowledge shaming, The difference is that there are highschool students designing automation systems from the ground up in this community which is amazing.
Not all servos and stepper motors are created equal.
For sure :)
That wire loom and bowden bumping and jumping in that left back axle gave me some anxiety, not shure what are the probabilities of it getting caught there but better not to risk?
Now… if you cool the steppers and drivers with liquid nitrogen… 🤩
But does it go fast
I know this one... it's by "The Prodigy" right?
What current you feeding those beasts plz?
1.8amp for now.
How do you manage to not kink the filament at those speeds. I mean direct drive yes but there's still a tube the material is coming trough
F yeah
Just do m/s at this point lol
Now make it play music! Haha
You need a hotend able to deliver a crazy flow to go along!
Luckily I have one 😂
Mosquito Magnum 10X Ultra Thanos Edition?
@@texasermd1 hahaha
How do you decide on, what Voltag to run the Stepper Motors at?
I only know how to set the Current via Vref.
It depends what the drivers can tolerate, bu you just feed the drivers the voltage you want. There is no adjustment for it. Higher voltages give you higher speeds basically.
th-cam.com/video/lftsMrksdTA/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=eddietheengineer best explanation i know
Do i start looking into this beast instead of a prusa mk3s+ ? Ive been wanting to sell some parts online, but have been thinking about the prusa because everyone says theyre reliable. I wonder if i started with one of these.
Welche externe Kühlungen sind das, seitlich am Bett?
Are those the ldo 2.5A motors?
Yes
@@Vez3D nice, I have mine shipping soon, I won't run them that fast but it's nice to know that it's possible
What's the temp at 48V btw? Also, are you using a PSU that puts out 48V or boosting from 12V?
How about Closed Loop Stepper Motors?
it's fast, but is the quality good
So which is better servos or steppers
Both have their pros and cons. I like servos..but much more expensive
Dreamt of the GPT-3 AI, feed it with a photo or video stream of a failed print and then it spits out the right cura profile plus detected hardware problems. I nap another hour...
8000rpm servos: oh how cute
That is VIOLENT. 1m/s.. How much torque do those steppers deliver with the current setup? And what current are they actually pulling?
1.8amp .. the motors are ldo-42sth47-2504ac
seems dangerous :)
ooh why do you have a belt from your steppers running? is it to decouple the motion system from the stepper vibrations?
It was to have motors outside of the enclosure when I had odrive. Im back with motors inside now
@@Vez3D oh nice.
I was thinking of potnetially doing that with my new tool changer i'm making, decouple the motors from the belt path and use a stepper dampener on it to reduce the belt vibrations/noise.
even with TMC drivers my printer makes some noise at high speeds, and I was wondering if my surface quality would improve :3
What made you decide on external motors?
How many Gs?
Any advantages over servos, performance or pricewise?
price, simplicity and no need for exhaustive tuning
Simple.. cheap.. quality print... The only downside is that noise.
Now print a Benchy! :D
What kind of steppers are you using?
Do the steppers run any cooler than 24V ones or is current increased to same level as 24V type?
I didnt have a chance to test for long enough. I ll do more testing soon
next week 96v
What steppers are you running?
Move fast is easy .... I want to see a real print at this speed: btw ... My print move as fast as yours but i cannot print at this speed.
I 100% agree
Are stepper motors any quieter on 48v as well? Mine seams way louder on 24v with 2209 drivers.
i found the oposite. When I switched to 48v with 5160s.. they were louder I found
Thank you for the reply. Maybe the camera isnt picking up the sound as well but man it sounds so quiet at those speeds. Mine seams way louder at a 200mm and 7,000k travel speed.
Gorgeous printer btw. Makes me want to finish my voron 2.4 that is 80% built but im working so much i dont have time to finish, lmao.
Not bad rhythm, but needs more bass. 🤟 😎 🔊🎶
Did you have to change stepper motor to run at 48 volts ??? or just change your driver ?
Drivers
@@Vez3D so the motor you have on the vzbot was the stock one or some for 48v?
@@cyrikdnamps ldo speed 1.8 48mm
how you do to make that thing stand there in place.
if i order my machine to move like that it will jump 10 cm off the ground. literally it moves like a washing machine when u put shoes on it and goes into centrifugation.
( i think its the low weight of the x gantry but ... dammmnn... .)
Its bolted to the Wall! Lol
AFAIK he literally bolted his machine to the wall. You can see it in one of his earlier videos.
Bolted to wall
Hence the nice thump you get when it changes direction, cant want to see it printing
24v motors work quietly for 1000mmsec and 50k acceleration
Which one?
@@Vez3D I have trinamics
What motors are those?
Damn. Soo effing loud.
Yeah well the cell phone amplifies it too ...but it's still loud. 1000mms was loud too with servos. Check on my YT channel ..there is a 1000mms video
And the precision are +-? 😛
they both can be precise enough for a 3d printer
what does the 50k mean here?
50 000mm/s2
👍
Hey Vez, what sizing of the 48v Power supply do you think is okay? I want to Drive a/b Motors only. So If i have 2a max current Motors ist 2*2a+1a safety?
This would lead to a Quote big meanwell Power supply 😁🤦
I'd say consider the motor current and apply a 1.5x to be safe (also usually PSUs are most efficient in the 70% load range) so for 2A motors 150w should be fine
@@UNVIRUSLETALE thanks for the participation! 🤘👌
@@hurr1k4ne if you use the ldo motors vez is using they can go 2.5amps, so you by I*v =2.5*48 = 120 per motor so id look at getting something 300 watt just to be safe, if you buying a Chinese meanwel psu who can guarantee that it will cope.
Hey, thank you. I bought the e3d high torque. Because of less inertia, 0.9° and low mh. They are only 1.6 Amp.
And for being available in Germany 🙄😉
@@hurr1k4ne good choice, but doing the math 48v x 1.6 amp = 76.8 watt per motor so I'd still get a 200watt psu if you plan to run two motors just for the safety. I thought I could get away with 100watt on ldo motors but psu gets very hot, so I worry about thermal shut down halfway through a long print. But plz ask people with more experience, I'm kinda new to the 48v scene.
Cheers
You say that servos have other issues, could you elaborate?
Artifacts on walls
What in the world did I just watched?! Holy crap! forget touching the brim to 'feel' its its sticking correctly on the first layer! I will loose and arm!
How is the sound compared to servos? Are they louder?
a lot louder... but... oh well
@@Vez3D if it's too fast to see, you can at least hear it =)
Will these stepsticks run properly on the Octopus Pro?
Yes should be. Though btt has their own 5160 too
@@Vez3D Their HV version (over 35 volts) is only available through seemingly one vendor and it's almost twice the price.
48V? On my cartesian robots I use NEMA34 Closed Loop Steppers at 80V and they are not as fast as BLDCs. Even at 600 RPM Steppers loose about 70% of their torque. Why did you returned to steppers?
Bldc were nice. But had one issue with artifacts on walls. At low speed ..well 250mms and lower
@@Vez3D So BLDCs with high reduction are slower than steppers without reduction?
@@TheNamelessOne12357 no I'm not saying that. They can be fast ...but there is a limit in step pulse rate they can take (odrive) .. so higher the gearing and speed...higher the steps per sec...and you can't go any faster than the board can take. Now with other servos this is maybe not an issue.
@@Vez3D But, according to docs, you could lower steps per rotation in ODrive settings.
@@TheNamelessOne12357 I know. Trust me I know hehe I was playing with every limits of the system
Your steppers are a little fast. Might need to level the bed.
sub minute benchy lol
Its fast, but melting needs time, so no need to move that fast. Waste of time spending in that creation.
First i thought you got the octopus pro maybe but oh well
@Vez3D Ah thanks for the info, i kinda thought it would be ok in my case as my current printer also has a board that also is from BTT which has 2209's too which i havent had any issues with yet (thankfully)
*Prints aggresively*
who need AC servo motors if you can put steppers with 48Volts of "B00ST"
0,9 or 1,8 deg?
1.8
These are 1.8
@@Vez3D thanks, would you recommend 1,8 or 0,9 for speeds up to 500mm/s? I've seen you recommend 0,9 for speed, has your opinion changed? ps. im running 24V
@@damiankakol69 the E3D 0.9 produce nice quality
@@Vez3D I cant get the E3D motors here, what i can get is the LDO motor you featured in the e3d vs LDO video, or a shorter motor called LDO-42STH48-2004MAC, which is the same size as the e3d motor. I have a dillema on which one to choose, but the latter one should offer faster accelerations because of its smaller and lighter rotor. What do you think?