Purity Culture, True Love Waits, and More: A Conversation with Richard Ross
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ม.ค. 2021
- Are critiques of purity culture fair? What is the legacy of True Love Waits? Sean interviews Dr. Richard Ross, one of the co-founders of the TLW movement about its origin, message, and current status.
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Dr Ross is the BEST! I call him the Godfather of student ministry. I’m so honored to have learned from him and call him a friend. Thanks for this convo Sean. Keep
up the great work brother!
Hellow, Mabuhay ka Po.I'm from the Philippines and I'm watching your videos since I watched the "Athiest debates Christian students, the reveals true identity". I was amazed about how you explains everything and that's why I immediately subscribe to your channel. Hope to learn more from you sir. God bless, and more power
This was way better than I expected.
This is one of the best conversations i've heard
I could feel Mcdowell figuring out how to address the martyrdom of the apostles comments. He did it very well. 41:51
This was educational.
It’s always bothered me to hear people make fun of or speak with disdain about the purity movement. It wasn’t all bad. Just as leaders mess up the scriptures themselves, there were plenty of leaders who messed up this one. There was also a lot of good that came from it. Many youth leaders were able to help and have honest, heartfelt conversations with kids whose parents either weren’t part of the church or weren’t engaged. My parents were engaged in our church and I still got much out of what our youth group did. It helped me connect with and cling to God in a way I hadn’t before. And that should have been the point in every youth group; it all should have pointed us to God.
"It wasn’t all bad." "There was also a lot of good that came from it."
Please spend some time listening to stories from people who were damaged for life because of this pet dogma, then try that again.
@@alabamapilot244 You missed the part when I said that plenty of leaders screwed it up.
One of the best videos I've seen.
So glad to hear!
9:40: “The point I’m making is kids at church knew that was all they were hearing. Nobody was suggesting that teenagers could make up their own minds and they could live a different kind of way. So when somebody at church said “We don’t think you’re hopeless, we don’t think you’re worthless, we think you’re perfectly able to make promises and even keep promises and we’re cheering you on.” It was a completely different mindset that was being placed before the young people, and I think that was a big reason why on first hearing they said “Yes, absolutely, we are different and we’d love to be a part of a worship service, we don’t mind wearing a ring or something to identify ourselves with the movement.”, it was because that was so different from what was being communicated to them.”
So this is his narrative on what happened? This is the whitewashed story he's going to try to sell? Know what kinds words most of us explicitly DON'T remember from those times?
"make up their own minds"
"could live"
"we don't mind wearing a ring"
Take a day and search out stories from around the Internet on this topic topic, listen to the people who survived this movement, and you know what you they don't remember? Words like those. There wasn't any "choice" involved. God mandated the "pure" lifestyle - period. Hell and broken marriages and lives will be the result if you don't do exactly as we say.
Want to know what most people from that time are going to remember?
"God won't bless the future marriage of fornicators."
"If you just wait you'll have the most amazing sex life ever, because God is going to bring you to who you're supposed to have."
"Sex before marriage can send you to Hell, unless you repent, and even then you're still damaged goods."
"Have sex and you'll be like a used piece of gum / worn out flower / used up piece of tape."
"Don't lust or explore your sexuality on your own, or go to Hell."
And that's just the Hell that it was for us run of the mill, white bread, straight kids. I can't imagine what guilt and torture the others must have felt.
There weren't any "making up their own minds", words like "could' sure as Hell weren't a thing. If you have sex before marriage, if you even LOOK at people and want to have sex with them, you're guilty of adultery and Hell will be your reward, unless you find God's grace.
You guys screwed up. Period. And you ruined so many lives, wrecked so many marriages, and broke so many homes along the way. Stop trying to blame your mistake on the nonexistent "decisions" of children and youths who couldn't have known any better. Stop whitewashing what you did, making it sound like you were preaching "choice" and "alternative". Take a few days to actually listen to the people you harmed, to the lives you damaged, then go back and try all of this again.
Edit: I'm well aware that this system of belief and practice worked for some people. I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about those of us who were damaged.
You know anything can be used in the wrong way. Or said or heard in the wrong way.
I didn't grow up in all that though. I would have sex before marriage. In my early 20s is when I made the decision to wait until marriage because of my belief in God. I am now to the point of. Even if I where to become a atheist still waiting. Maybe not to the point of signing a marriage license. But until I decide that he is the one I want to spend my life with.
Honestly when I have kids. I don't know how I will talk to them about this. It probably won't be a true love waits class or something along those lines. Because I know plenty of people who said things like I only did or said that because my friends did. That can happen anywhere. There will be a conversation about safe sex within it even if they say they are going to wait.
Thank you for saying this. Why do they get to change the narrative without apologizing to the ones they hurt? Why don’t they acknowledge what was wrong with the old curriculum?
@carsongraham475 "Whoops. We screwed up your life. But it couldn't have been THAT bad! Now please come back to church."
I went to a Christian School for most of my youth and I highly recommend it. My parents and my teachers taught me to have strong resolve and to be able to say no to things. HOWEVER somehow it seemed to me that boys never got the memo on this topic of sex and respecting their own virginity. I feel there would be a lot more virgin marriages of men and women, both, if parents, pastors, teachers and friends would have stronger talks with the boys/young men about it being the right thing to do to be a virgin on their wedding day. Not pressuring girls for sex and not to walk away from nice girls if they say no to sex. We girls were just trying to do the right thing, but so often felt discarded and unimportant just for wanting to be pure. Some say, "Well if he was a good young man he'd have not dumped you" but plenty of good young men walked away from me for saying no. Boys/young Men, need to know that they have to fight their desires, too. Be accountable. Not hide behind the excuse that they need to gain, "experience." My parents almost condoned this for my brother, (that young men need to gain sexual experience), which perpetuated his behaviour to conquest whoever was willing. It made him an immoral man that carried over into his marriage. The (demon?) spirit of conquest lived on in him! I can't tell you how often this happened in the 70's when I was a teen. Being rejected for wanting to stay pure. Passed over as if to say, "Oh, you won't have sex with me? You're rejecting me? Fine. NEXT!!" It was a rough go and I didn't end up marrying any of those "Christian" boys I went to school with because (stop the music!) I didn't respect any of THEM because they didn't stop to respect ME my love for God and KEEP me as a precious gem. They lost out on one heck of a good woman, too. Thanks for this video. I think every parent listening needs to share it with their kids and grandkids.
I agree with you, also I realised people are ashamed when they wait, like when they are trying to explain themselves as if they did something wrong. I am all for waiting before you get married and being safe in my early twenties I know that it matters to God and that is why we should NOT be ashamed. If more people know they are not the "only person in the world still waiting" then there will be more people to wait. Especially amongst men. I believe we should talk about this OPENLY because the world with their standards talks about it openly but as Christians, we see it as a "forbidden topic" which is wrong, if we don't teach the young they are going to search for the truth in other places. I remember as a young person searching one Woman preacher spoke about it openly telling us the real influence and damage it could do to you. People in the ceremony started walking out, but she just continued and you know what she preached about it again and went even deeper the next Sunday. We need BOLD leaders like this, who cares more about obeying God than impressing others.
@@civ6825 I so agree! Thank you for your thoughtful reply!! :)
This sounds like an idea that's going to lead to more teen pregnancy, not less.
Besides, trying to shame kids into not having sex is a losing proposition. This is also probably one of the reasons religion is on a massive decline all across the globe. Religious based abstinence only education never works, it always fails and leads to a spike in teen pregnancy. That's just the facts of the matter.
The biggest issue with taking out the Bible aspect with true love waits, is losing the “why” we wait, in the process. Secular approach always destroys good intentions.
Purity is a philosophy of sexual ignorance.
When I was 16 years old I made the commitment to save sex for marriage. I am 47 years old & I am still honoring that commitment! I have ZERO regrets! It hasn't been easy but it's worth it! To God be the glory!