Errata: th-cam.com/video/VSwXMbdYUe4/w-d-xo.html Ok so to be clear, I liked it and think it's worth seeing, if only just for Ralph Fiennes's acting. If you were already planning to watch it, come back to my spoilerific video later! Also, I really have a suspicion there was a lot more going on in the book. Like there are just way too many oddities in the film. I didn't mention this in my video, but the wikipedia page plot summary is reads very confidently as though Ralph (Lawrence) was actually a conniving mastermind? "In addition, although Lawrence (Ralph) is not supposed to contact the outside world in conclave, he begins gathering opposition research against several leading candidates, rationalizing to himself that he is merely conducting an independent investigation to protect the Church." I'm not the most astute movie watcher, but I'm pretty positive he's not ambitious at all in the film, he just wants to honor dead pope's legacy. If you have seen the movie or read the book, please let me know what I'm missing here.
This reminds me of watching Ender's Game with someone who hadn't read the book. He thought a bunch of it seemed random until watching the DVD deleted scenes, they cut essential information to save 10 minutes of runtime 😭 I wonder if they did the same thing here
I enjoyed the informal video, it was a lot of fun watching you unscripted! It felt very much like a friend said "hey, come over for coffee, I have to tell you about this insane movie I watched!"
You don't have to be a Cardinal to be elected Pope. There are two requirments to being Pope: 1. Be Catholic. 2. Be male. So, every male Catholic on earth is a candidate. It has been the case in the past were the Cardinals were unable to choose from one of their own so elected someone else, including a time they took so long (over two years) to elect a Pope that a Hermit sent them an angry letter telling them to hurry up so they elected him (Pope Celestine V who was Pope in the 1290s and now a Saint and his corpse is now on display in L'Aquilla)
Oh right, that was the pope whose two actions were "The Pope should be allowed to resign" and "I resign," wasn't it? And iirc he was tried and imprisoned after for no good reason because his successor was a dick.
@@FreshBruh67 totally could see a "coming to America" style comedy of the hermit adjusting to life in civilization and newfound responsibility while those around him struggle to keep order after he called their bluff.
I just discovered this channel, and I've come to realize I really need to find people like this, that just go full-tilt into.....whatever. I could listen to pretty much any topic on this channel for hours, regardless if I'm already invested in the subject, lol. I've known lifetime comic nerds that have less to share about the latest Marvel movie and that's just a shame.
8:00 So to answer your question, while Catholics do lean slightly conservative as a whole, the religion is actually quite varied. The political climate in Catholic churches will change, not just from country or region, but from church to church and priest to priest. The main uniting factor is the belief in a singular Christian church.
In Catholicism though, you can't be a church leader who rejects the Vatican's stance on an issue though right? Like you report to your diocese? You can't be preaching in opposition or you'll be removed?
@@HGModernism It depends on the circumstances. The degree of disagreement and the way the lower ranking priest goes about it. I have definitely encountered priests that advocate for acceptance of LGBTQ people or allowing women to enter the priesthood, but they do so in a constructive dialogue rather than an attack on doctrine. Conversely I know of a priest in Texas who was defrocked because he very aggressively and very publicly advocated for more conservative politics. Also, I had to look it up but apparently you can still be a priest if you're intersex but id as male.
@@HGModernism No not Trans men. Also the criteria for identifying as male while intersex is extremely vague so I'm not sure how they would implement it.
@@HGModernism > In Catholicism though, you can't be a church leader who rejects the Vatican's stance on an issue though right? There are canonical penalties (from the Code of Canon Law) for ecclesiastical crimes such as schism and heresy, such as demotion, suspension, and (in the worst cases) defrocking. But some priests absolutely are permitted to preach pretty much whatever they want without any penalties. Look up Fr. James Martin, SJ.
The bombing was foreshadowed by the sirens out in the city and Ralph's assistant specifically telling him that there has been bombing and Ralph saying that the Cardinals cannot be told about this as it'll taint the conclave.
I think that bonkers last minute twist is an oblique reference to the medieval legend of 'Pope Joan'. Pope Joan was allegedly a 9th century woman who disguised herself as a man and was so learned that she rose to the top of the Church hierarchy, but had her secret betrayed when she gave birth in the middle of a ceremony. There was a whole bunch of secondary lore attached to the story, including that the Vatican had covered up the events, and required all subsequent popes to sit on a chair with a hole in it and have their testicles checked to prove they were male before they were allowed to don the tiara. There is absolutely no evidence for any of this, but it was widely regarded as historical fact for hundreds of years.
i think it's a reference to the veneration of jesus' side wound. some medieval people emphasized jesus' side wound from crucifixion, and depicted it as resembling a vulva. this connects to (thomas) lawrence, who touches benitez's hands like thomas did jesus
When Pope Francis was elected I was 14 and at my catholic school I was very briefly and badly explained the election process so for the longest time I believed that all the Cardinals would vote in secret and set the fire, and if a Pope had been elected, God would make the smoke white... I was elated we had witnessed such a miracle. And I still sometimes doubt I might be neurodivergent...
I watched the movie. As someone who was not raised in the catholic church I felt like there was a lot happening in the movie that catholics would recognize the significance of that I did not. I imagine this is how it feels when someone sees a movie or show from an existing franchise like Star Trek without being familiar with it. An example was when Tucci asks Ralph what his Papal name would be and he says "John." A couple of people in the theater reacted to that positively as if that is a reference to something important. The same seemed true when the new pope guy said his name would be Innocent. I don't know how intentional it was but I did like the scenes where there was this contrast between the modern world and the traditional environment of the Vatican. Like there was a scene with one of the cardinals on his phone swiping while all dressed up in his robes that I thought was interesting. To me all the ritualism of the whole thing is goofy so seeing all these dudes dress up in fancy robes and have a political fight is kind of silly and takes away from the drama. I suspect that element is aimed at catholics, though. A little correction: Ralph's assistant does not tell him that the procedure was to be a hysterectomy. The new pope guy tells him that when Ralph confronts him about the mystery procedure.
I don't see what makes it more goofy than empty corporate suits playing executive politics in board rooms. Tbf, maybe the presentation of the film is at fault here.
People dress up in silly garbs (suits) even in this day and age to quibble over important issues following a ritualized system. So I guess the more things change the more they stay the same. *shrug*
Why does my religion, which is the oldest singular institution in the world, keep being called “goofy” and “silly” by people completely ignorant of it? I honestly don’t know how people can find the Catholic aesthetic to be anything other than beautiful. Their robes have been slowly developing over literal millennia under a near singular vision.
24:28 they do flag it up the bombing earlier with a Molotov/more minor explosion occurring. Also I think the timing is metaphorically an act of God. It happens right as Fiennes is voting for himself, which I took as him not genuinely voting for who he thinks is best. He contradicts the prayer where he says he’s voting with his heart, and then bomb. It’s also the turning point where Fiennes’ character starts to understand why he’s still around (like he wanted to resign and is meant to be a literal doubting Thomas imo). That’s just my take though. Can 100% understand it feeling like that whole plot point came out of nowhere since it basically does
25:14 also they do say they have to put out a statement declaring his ministry now that he’s voting for the new pope. It’s a throwaway line, but that and the general idea of Muslim extremism is supposed to support the traditionalist’s rant and/or why the bombing occurred. It’s like 3 lines so super easy to miss in a film this dense. They probably could’ve done a better job setting it up
30:23 ok last one, but I think the cardinal being intersex is less about being the cardinal intersex and more about his blindness to physical/mortal differences. His monologue is about how he didn’t know that he was different until well into his adulthood, and I think that’s a metaphor for his ability to see past the surface level differences which create bigotry and separation in the Church. He’s a Mexican intersex man who served in the DRC and Kabul, wherein the latter he provided aid to Muslims and Christians alike. His pope name is Innocence, as in innocent to the ambition and bigotry that corrupted the other cardinals. Def plays into the “goodness prevails always” outlook though
I am a catholic convert who did NOT go to catholic school and I have often heard catholic schools are more of an inoculation to Catholicism where they give you just enough information about Catholicism to make it seem silly, but not enough to make it make sense / effectively explain it. Also I just came from your video on Lactose intolerance which I loved. Thank you for that lol
Apparently it underwent the same sound changes that got rid of the L sound in "half", "calf", "calm", and so on. I can't find any explanation for why the vowel changed differently, though. In the other examples, it just got longer, but in "Ralph" it became a diphthong for some reason
W/r/t intelligibility of Spanish by those who speak Italian or Latin, I have worked in several suit factories where there vast majority of the workforce spoke Spanish or Italian. They generally spoke in their respective languages and understood each other. I generally understood nothing lol
From a Catholic perspective, it’s a rather typical Hollywood representation of the Church. That being pretty grossly misrepresented and hilariously out of touch. As a piece of fiction, it’s whatever. I just wouldn’t recommend viewing it with the mindset that it’s representative of reality and that it might afford you some insight into real Church scandals.
@@HGModernism I haven’t watched it myself, but I’ve heard that the movie “The Shoes of the Fisherman” is very respectful to our rituals and sensibilities. I can’t comment on the quality of the movie itself. Although it is a Hollywood movie, made by MGM I believe. Edit: I’ve heard Silence by Martin Scorsese was good. It follows Catholic evangelists in Japan during the Christian persecutions there. Stars Andrew Garfield.
Really enjoying your videos, including this unscripted one. I'm impressed by your ability to put yourself out there. Keep being awesome. What's your future pope name?
A couple thoughts about things you noted: 1. Many catholic priests embraced socialism under the general term liberation theology. It was particularly strong in Central America in the 70s and 80s. There are areas where the official doctrine of the church is not very far from Marxism. Notwithstanding Marx’s position on atheism. 😉 2. Financial scandal is a very real problem that has plagued the Vatican for a long time, so the fear that a leak would emerge about Mitch’s improprieties seems quite plausible. Leaks from inside the Vatican happen often.
@@Giantcrabz For what it's worth, mainline Catholicism has long criticized both Capitalism and Communism and generally argues more for a communitarian localism with distributist economics. Of course, your average Catholic doesn't know that and just clings to normie politics, but the Church itself has at least been remarkably consistent on this point.
@@Giantcrabz it would be nice to think the origins of the biggest religion is actually communist and redeemable from mainline reactionaries but no, the apostles were similar to other ascetic apocalypticist cults at the time, and it would be inaccurate to charaterise them as communist since the material and social factors that underpin their acts were totally different. Not to mention, liberation theology was never popular amongst the clergy or laity, *and* i suspect it is not a good idea to try to power the liberation of humanity on a completely non-material grounding and religious dogma, which are definition dogmatic and unbending yet changeable... only by a select priest class (whether they be the strictly catholic structure or local Fathers and teachers)
Communism has always been popular in Latino nations for some reason. Usually pushed by philosophers but never working in practice. It's not a surprise that it infiltrated into the Catholic church through the South American pipeline. And no the Apostles were not communists. While they lived in a communal fashion, there was no central authority and everything was voluntary. While they encouraged people to sacrifice and lead a minimal lifestyle, it was wholly by their own volition. There were no distribution economics. You had voluntary charity but it was governed by the individual who owned the resources/property.
I don't get your stance on "too liberal to be part of the church". He is a liberal, he is catholic, he sees the wrongdoings of the church and wants to change it, 'cause he loves God and wants the major catholic institution to be truly good, so he acts on it, not just drops it. Makes total sense.
I assumed as a leader in the church he would be forced to act against his beliefs to adhere to the Vatican's stance on issues, for example, in which contexts to grant annulments etc
For the Spanish thing, it's not unreasonable to assume the cardinals at least speak Italian, which is so similar to Spanish, that if you know one, you can mostly understand the other even if you wouldn't be able to necessarily speak it yourself. And with Spain being so close by, I'm sure some also straight up know Spanish anyway. That's how I would justify it anyway 😅
Being intersex/non-binary/queer brings a certain perspective that most ppl in the world ignore. That's why he might have an advantage in ruling this divided world
5:00 Maybe this is based on the concept of the Advocatus Diaboli? In the past this was a position that did something like background checks on people who were about to be sanctified. That would be rather a strech though.
ooooh! pitch for my Conclave tie in table top hidden role game: 1. It's like the card game Cheat where players need to put down named sets of cards and they need to lie about what theyre putting down in order to get rid of their cards faster. 2. Inseatd of playing cards, all the cards have classic Jesus things on them like "compassion" or "forgiveness" or whatever except some are _shame cards_ with stuff like "sex criminal" or "super racist" on them and _those_ are the cards the players are trying to hide. 3. Players can call "Snake!" when another player places their cards if they think they're lying, but if they guess wrong they loose their vote in the next Pope vote and they pick up all the cards. 4. After two cycles round the table the cards that have been placed are shuffled and revealed so everyone knows what kinds of secrets have been placed but not who placed them. The shuffled cards are placed on the discard pile and then everyone votes for Pope anonymously. 5. If you manage to get rid of all your cards during a round you get a black ball that you can use to bar a person from the Pope vote. Then you pick up an appropriate new hand of cards from the discard pile. 6. The good guys win if they manage to elect the Saint who was handed a hand with no shame cards 7. The bad guys win if they elect the Anti-pope who had like 90% evil cards or something. 8. The other players are anonymously assigned to the good team or the evil team but they don't know who is who. 9. Everyone gets a little felt cardinal hat to wear. it wouldnt be a good game, but people would buy it for the hat. p.s. Since I havent seen the film (obvs) I imaged all scenes playing out like that arc in Hunter x Hunter where they elect a new president for the hunter assocition and there's a running voiceover explaining everyones extremely convoluted scheming
iirc the explosion wasnt totally out of the blue there was an explosion before it and I think they explained that the longer the election toook the more exacerbated the tensions outside were or something
For future reference the Ralph in Ralph Fiennes is pronounced Rafe. I remember he was seen on set with a shirt or hat like 20 years ago that said "it's pronounced Rafe".
6:42 "Anyways, he's played by John Lithgow." Better known to pre-Millennial audiences as... well, not as "Mitch." Older folks also have a more nuanced understanding of how to pronounce "Ralph," but the "not good with names" card was played early in the video. Apology accepted.
I love that you went on opening night lol When i was high school (maybe middle school, don't remember the exact year) some of my friends and I when to the opening night of the Book of Mormon movie (not the musical lol, this was before South Park even made the Mormon episode), fully because we knew it was going to be weird. We were basically the only ones there. It was a very odd movie to show in the only cinema of my kinda small hometown that has like maybe 2 LDS churches. Anyway, how I would kill to just have the free time to just go watch random movies I've never heard of (and/or bad movies) on opening nights again!
The algorithm decided I'd like this channel, I've seen your narwhal video in my recommends for a while, and even though I didn't click it, now it shows me this. This is almost like divine intervention. 😄
You just sort of showed up in my algorithm. So I am subscribing lol Also I converted to Catholicism this year at Easter. I don’t plan on watching Conclave so thank you for the Spoilers lol
@@HGModernism I was Free Methodist, it is an offset of Methodist lol but I much prefer Catholicism, I did so cause I wanna be a better person and a better social worker
@@TVMAN1997 Do you feel like the increased structure provided by all of the sacraments and rituals in Catholicism is what helps you be a better person? Or is it something else about it?
@@HGModernism yes! In addition to the sincerity of the Church. I believe in the True Presence (But I totally get why people don’t or have a hard time with it) but one of the other main reasons for me is Confession. I really like that sacrament a lot.
@@TVMAN1997 Yeah! I think there is something really important about structured reoccurring reflection on what we could do better or how we could be better. For me that's therapy, but I think confession is similar in some ways.
my family sent me my sister and brother to a religious boarding school for 3 years, worst 3 years of my life that ruined my life and the outcome of the religious school backfired because i turned out the opposite but my sister turned out super hyper religious, im not gonna mention which religion it is, because people will call my criticism rude and disrespectful, but i believe in free speech, no matter how vile it is, you should be allowed to say it, just don't say it directly to someone's face with the intention to stir up violence, oh btw you're extremely gorgeous and i absolutely love your bleach blonde hair, and i can watch and listen to you all day and never get bored, because you're pretty and you're interesting to listen to, your channel is one of a kind, love it👍
Great review. I read the book before watching the film - I kinda wish I hadn't because I think I would have enjoyed the twists in the movie much more. The movie was, with a couple of exceptions, very true to the book. Too true, in my opinion. I wanted the story in the book to be topped and tailed with some more scenes. In particular I felt cheated that I didn't see the new Pope walk out on to the balcony - maybe (if this isn't too corny) a montage at the end over the credits seeing the new Pope travelling the world and being well received. Anyway, I enjoyed the movie. (re: the bomb 'coming out of nowhere' - yeah, that's pretty much the point of bombs).
2:55 I think the second in command is called the Camerlengo. I heard that in a song called Party Dog by Tom Cardy, in which someone looks something up in the Wikipedia article of the Vatican.
Ah man, that's a cool title! I just looked it up and according to wikipedia: "The death of the pope is verified by the cardinal camerlengo" "During the sede vacante, as the papal vacancy is known, certain limited powers pass to the College of Cardinals, which is convoked by the dean of the College of Cardinals." So I guess that's why they call him the Dean, but I think you're basically correct, this guy just isn't the second in command?
@@HGModernism No, there's no second in command. If the office of the Bishop of Rome is vacant, no one gets to be "acting Pope", there just isn't a pope and nothing changes until you have one. The camerlengo assumes specific, administrative responsibilities pertaining to the election of the new pope and securing the late pope's body and personal effects. The office of camerlengo carries no authority to influence a conclave or discipline any other cardinals. It's not an appointment that makes you a heavy hitter in the Vatican, by any means.
Near the end there I was reminded of an interesting quote by an American journalist and biographer, Robert Caro, who wrote biographies about Robert Moses and President Johnson, as well as many other books on the American political system. “Power doesn’t corrupt, it reveals.” I don’t agree with this quote wholesale, any more than I agree with the “absolute power corrupts absolutely.” I think that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. You could argue that might be a consequence of the lack of absolute power, nobody has total control nor will they ever, but I don’t think it should be left there. I believe that power is a goal, and it comes at a cost. What you do for and with power are consequences of an exchange between who you are and how power changes you. If you wanted to use an example from the movie, you could look at the difference between our “Mexican cardinal” and the prior pope. One way that power changes people without necessarily making them worse people is separation: power tends to take you further from problems. The pope doesn’t see what the lives of the muslims in war torn countries are like because he isn’t there, his job as the pope necessarily separates him, both physically and socially, from the world’s problems. In other ways, it absolutely does have negative consequences on the nature of an individual’s character, but it remains true that power is also a means to an end, and great good can be done with it as well.
There's a bunch of research in the branch of political science (and sometimes sociology) that calls itself Institutionalization Theory about how, as any given group becomes an Institution and thus develops power structures (one of the usual criteria is that an institution needs to have relatively stable goals beyond any of its individuals/even after the current individuals die out, and that is usually obtained by the formalizing of leadership structure), whoever occupies said power structures becomes further detached from whatever group this Institution sprouted from somewhat as a function of how institutionalized it is. I was reading papers about that like five years ago and haven't really touched anything close to it since so i don't remember details, and on average the scholars doing this are studying political parties (i.e. how do parties balance having stability past present charismatic leaders and being in touch with their voter base) but it is to an extent more broadly applicable and i think it generally builds on your point (and also the papacy is frankly not that far from the political party/government type situations this literature covers ime)
It's really hard to go watch that kind of movie since Habemus Papam and the Young Pope already exist. But honestly, Habemus Papam is a great movie on the same topic. And you get to see cardinals play volleyball .
I mean looks like the classic religious movie, exaggerated characters that go out without too much trouble, the guy became a narcisist then and then a bomb happened to make it look like narcisism is bad and God kills like 50 people for it and then the humble pillock that doesn't know much about the whole thing and is still thinking going with God is the best option wins
As another commenter has brought up, liberation theology catholics are a thing and there's still a lot of them here in Brazil. I'm not personally catholic but all catholics i know irl are fairly liberal (since thats what the catholic side of my family is up to) and the conservative vibes catholics seem to all have in north america freak me out lol
Se é esquerdista não é católico. Ponto. A diferença pros católicos dos EUA é que eles são realmente católicos, mas aqui é algo mais de costume do que de seguir mesmo.
@@Manfred_Messer This is a catholic teaching, sir. If you vote for someone that supports leftist policies such as abortion, you are committing a grave sin.
Thanks for this thoughtful review. Regarding Tedesco (the Italian traditionalist), I think his energy is most definitely villainous. But there are a few nuances. For example, his criticism of diversity is actually compelling in some ways: including many different types of people is useless if they don’t actually talk to each other. Another example is that the film questions whether he is truly a traditionalist. He quotes Nietzsche (in ecclesial Latin no less) to Lawrence, which is pretty modern of him. We also see him vape the whole time, like a zoomer lol. Finally and I think most importantly, it’s not really clear that he wants to be pope himself so much as merely influence the election and in that sense I think he is more open to the process than other characters like Bellini (Stanely Tucci) and especially Tremblay (John Lithgow). This is a film about how whatever we expect to happen, want to happen, and all our worry about that, is set aside when the truth breaks in from unexpected angles. I think despite all his villainous qualities, Tedesco has a better understanding of that than some of the other characters.
theory: this is a 10,000 year prequal to Dune.... this is the start of the order of the Bene Gesserit. the new pope not having the hysterectomy is the foreshadowing of the Kwisatz Haderach.
Carlos diehz deserves more love! I also knew it wasn’t going to be about old men being into little boys and In glad it wasn’t that because that’s overly done
Family and Irish Grandmother are all Baptist. Went to Catholic school for 1st-8th grade for the "education". I do believe the small class size and attention helped me flourish. That said, it ABSOLUTELY laid the foundation for me to say "wayment, this shit is all fake." Which led to a vast search of knowledge as I've gotten older.
The most unbelievable thing about this movie is that there's 108 bishops in a room and only one has a reputation for being a catholic and doesn't get high fives for it.
Started watching with legitimate hopes for parallels between this and 12 Angry Men, because I also feel that "12 Angry Men but in the Catholic Church" could be so interesting for a movie. I guess just the fact that there are men and there's anger involved technically suffices, but oh well. RIP Dead Pope 🙏 Wonder if it's one of those cases where so much is spent on the talent, that other things (marketing, adapting the book into a screenplay, etc) are sacrificed. Like, it broaches multiple topics without really doing them justice, and no one had really heard about its release. Including me. So I'm glad for this video alerting me to its existence and potentially-fraught development! I found the sorta "Catholic-adjacent" perspective a little relatable and thought it lent itself to the topic. The informal, off-the-cuff style of this one was fun, too 😊 would definitely watch more of these, not necessarily film reviews but whatever's worth a rant Also, amazing costume reveal!!
Ah sorry for the unintentional click-bait. I wanted to make something quick (for me) and informal, and to do a thorough analysis I'd need to re-watch 12 Angry Men and spend time actually writing something passable haha. I hope another TH-camr does though, I think there were some interesting parallels.
@@HGModernism omgg it made for a really great hook! This video did a better job at showing off all of the other things the film tried to include beyond just the persuasion, deliberation, and decision of everything. Which kinda ended up being a lot of subject matter, so this longer semi-structured rant honestly fits ^.^ It sounds like this movie had a lot to adapt from the source material, plus the more film-specific challenges you mention that are inherent to making a modern Hollywood mystery thriller film palatable to those both inside and outside the Catholic faith. Pretty ambitious if you ask me. And to throw comparisons to 12 Angry Men (and Everything Everywhere All At Once, too, I guess haha) on top of all of that? That's a heavy burden of expectation to deliver on, even for someone like massive sorcerer-performer talent Ralph Fiennes. idk just feel like there are a ton of reasons for me to find this movie and its existence intriguing, but also don't know if I would've heard of it otherwise. So thx for the video! And the response! love the channel. happy Halloweekend =)
I like to imagine your just sitting in the corner of the cinema staircase right after the movie trying to talk to your fellow movie-goers on their way out
9:13 I’m a bit drunk. My last encounter with Pope Gregory VII, may God rest his soul, ended because he beat me in darts and I cried about it so hard that I had to be carried out of the Vatican. I’d known the guy for 13 years and he’d never once mentioned being good at darts. I really thought I could take him but it appears that Lord the Father had other plans. I didn’t kill him.
I've been watching your vids for a while now, and I was curious- why is your accent so different here than in your other videos? Are your playing it up more for entertainment purposes in your more formal videos? Not meant to be accusatory or rude, just genuinely curious.
Huh, I don't hear my own accent so I'm not sure. To me it's the difference of going slowly and trying to enunciate. In my formal videos I have an outline I'm following so I get a few takes to make sure all the words are clear. This one I'm just chatting and wanted to do it quickly in only one take, so I worried about it less?
There's a myth that during the middle ages the Catholic Church elected a Pope who later turned out to be a woman, and became known as Pope Joan. This didn't actually happen.
Errata: th-cam.com/video/VSwXMbdYUe4/w-d-xo.html
Ok so to be clear, I liked it and think it's worth seeing, if only just for Ralph Fiennes's acting. If you were already planning to watch it, come back to my spoilerific video later!
Also, I really have a suspicion there was a lot more going on in the book. Like there are just way too many oddities in the film. I didn't mention this in my video, but the wikipedia page plot summary is reads very confidently as though Ralph (Lawrence) was actually a conniving mastermind? "In addition, although Lawrence (Ralph) is not supposed to contact the outside world in conclave, he begins gathering opposition research against several leading candidates, rationalizing to himself that he is merely conducting an independent investigation to protect the Church." I'm not the most astute movie watcher, but I'm pretty positive he's not ambitious at all in the film, he just wants to honor dead pope's legacy. If you have seen the movie or read the book, please let me know what I'm missing here.
Ralph Fiennes is a treasure. Harry from In Bruges is still my favorite character that he played.
This reminds me of watching Ender's Game with someone who hadn't read the book. He thought a bunch of it seemed random until watching the DVD deleted scenes, they cut essential information to save 10 minutes of runtime 😭 I wonder if they did the same thing here
I enjoyed the informal video, it was a lot of fun watching you unscripted!
It felt very much like a friend said "hey, come over for coffee, I have to tell you about this insane movie I watched!"
@@doggfite Very Jenny Nicholson vibes
I have read the book and the movie is quite faithful actually
"So then Dead Pope dies." This is exactly the kind of in-depth analysis I was hoping!
Truly one of the movies of all time!
Somehow, the dead pope has died
spoilers!
Huge if true.
'Secretly picked out their pope name'. Fellas were making their popesona
Pope Innocent LXIX
You don't have to be a Cardinal to be elected Pope. There are two requirments to being Pope: 1. Be Catholic. 2. Be male.
So, every male Catholic on earth is a candidate. It has been the case in the past were the Cardinals were unable to choose from one of their own so elected someone else, including a time they took so long (over two years) to elect a Pope that a Hermit sent them an angry letter telling them to hurry up so they elected him (Pope Celestine V who was Pope in the 1290s and now a Saint and his corpse is now on display in L'Aquilla)
Why isn't the movie about that instead?
Oh right, that was the pope whose two actions were "The Pope should be allowed to resign" and "I resign," wasn't it?
And iirc he was tried and imprisoned after for no good reason because his successor was a dick.
So every Catholic male can have the possibility to have their corpse displayed in L'Aquilla?
@@user-sl6gn1ss8p I'd say because it's a fun story but I don't see how you can make 1 to 2 hour film out of this fun fact
@@FreshBruh67 totally could see a "coming to America" style comedy of the hermit adjusting to life in civilization and newfound responsibility while those around him struggle to keep order after he called their bluff.
I just discovered this channel, and I've come to realize I really need to find people like this, that just go full-tilt into.....whatever. I could listen to pretty much any topic on this channel for hours, regardless if I'm already invested in the subject, lol. I've known lifetime comic nerds that have less to share about the latest Marvel movie and that's just a shame.
highly recommend Jenny Nicholson and Angela Collier for that kind of stuff (if you're not familiar with them already)
@@hpoz222 Thank you for the recommendations!!!
Further recommendation: Oliver Lugg is a great hidden gem.
CJ the X! You're welcome 😊
Secret Mexican Cardinal is my new band name.
the perspective makes me feel like I'm sitting on a little cabinet
Shelf gnome perspective
How can you do this to us. You HAVE to reveal your pope name.
will be voting for Hendry in the next conclave. don't ask me how i got there, i'm a secret German cardinal.
"i think no is going to watch it" and then it was nominated for like a bunch of oscars
I wanna clear out that what I mean is that I think YOU made this movie popular
8:00 So to answer your question, while Catholics do lean slightly conservative as a whole, the religion is actually quite varied. The political climate in Catholic churches will change, not just from country or region, but from church to church and priest to priest. The main uniting factor is the belief in a singular Christian church.
In Catholicism though, you can't be a church leader who rejects the Vatican's stance on an issue though right? Like you report to your diocese? You can't be preaching in opposition or you'll be removed?
@@HGModernism It depends on the circumstances. The degree of disagreement and the way the lower ranking priest goes about it. I have definitely encountered priests that advocate for acceptance of LGBTQ people or allowing women to enter the priesthood, but they do so in a constructive dialogue rather than an attack on doctrine. Conversely I know of a priest in Texas who was defrocked because he very aggressively and very publicly advocated for more conservative politics. Also, I had to look it up but apparently you can still be a priest if you're intersex but id as male.
@@ChrisM-z6b Interesting, but not trans-men, I assume?
@@HGModernism No not Trans men. Also the criteria for identifying as male while intersex is extremely vague so I'm not sure how they would implement it.
@@HGModernism > In Catholicism though, you can't be a church leader who rejects the Vatican's stance on an issue though right?
There are canonical penalties (from the Code of Canon Law) for ecclesiastical crimes such as schism and heresy, such as demotion, suspension, and (in the worst cases) defrocking. But some priests absolutely are permitted to preach pretty much whatever they want without any penalties. Look up Fr. James Martin, SJ.
new HGModernism location unlocked
THE CORNER!!
@@ractheraccoon THEmodernistic CORNER
The bombing was foreshadowed by the sirens out in the city and Ralph's assistant specifically telling him that there has been bombing and Ralph saying that the Cardinals cannot be told about this as it'll taint the conclave.
I think that bonkers last minute twist is an oblique reference to the medieval legend of 'Pope Joan'. Pope Joan was allegedly a 9th century woman who disguised herself as a man and was so learned that she rose to the top of the Church hierarchy, but had her secret betrayed when she gave birth in the middle of a ceremony. There was a whole bunch of secondary lore attached to the story, including that the Vatican had covered up the events, and required all subsequent popes to sit on a chair with a hole in it and have their testicles checked to prove they were male before they were allowed to don the tiara. There is absolutely no evidence for any of this, but it was widely regarded as historical fact for hundreds of years.
i think it's a reference to the veneration of jesus' side wound. some medieval people emphasized jesus' side wound from crucifixion, and depicted it as resembling a vulva. this connects to (thomas) lawrence, who touches benitez's hands like thomas did jesus
When Pope Francis was elected I was 14 and at my catholic school I was very briefly and badly explained the election process so for the longest time I believed that all the Cardinals would vote in secret and set the fire, and if a Pope had been elected, God would make the smoke white... I was elated we had witnessed such a miracle.
And I still sometimes doubt I might be neurodivergent...
😂😂😂
Is this movie 9x better than 12 angry men?
No sadly the anger is the same but now diluted
9 times diluted then XD
12 angry men out of a 100 regular men
I watched the movie. As someone who was not raised in the catholic church I felt like there was a lot happening in the movie that catholics would recognize the significance of that I did not. I imagine this is how it feels when someone sees a movie or show from an existing franchise like Star Trek without being familiar with it.
An example was when Tucci asks Ralph what his Papal name would be and he says "John." A couple of people in the theater reacted to that positively as if that is a reference to something important. The same seemed true when the new pope guy said his name would be Innocent.
I don't know how intentional it was but I did like the scenes where there was this contrast between the modern world and the traditional environment of the Vatican. Like there was a scene with one of the cardinals on his phone swiping while all dressed up in his robes that I thought was interesting. To me all the ritualism of the whole thing is goofy so seeing all these dudes dress up in fancy robes and have a political fight is kind of silly and takes away from the drama. I suspect that element is aimed at catholics, though.
A little correction: Ralph's assistant does not tell him that the procedure was to be a hysterectomy. The new pope guy tells him that when Ralph confronts him about the mystery procedure.
I don't see what makes it more goofy than empty corporate suits playing executive politics in board rooms. Tbf, maybe the presentation of the film is at fault here.
People dress up in silly garbs (suits) even in this day and age to quibble over important issues following a ritualized system.
So I guess the more things change the more they stay the same. *shrug*
Why does my religion, which is the oldest singular institution in the world, keep being called “goofy” and “silly” by people completely ignorant of it?
I honestly don’t know how people can find the Catholic aesthetic to be anything other than beautiful. Their robes have been slowly developing over literal millennia under a near singular vision.
24:28 they do flag it up the bombing earlier with a Molotov/more minor explosion occurring.
Also I think the timing is metaphorically an act of God. It happens right as Fiennes is voting for himself, which I took as him not genuinely voting for who he thinks is best. He contradicts the prayer where he says he’s voting with his heart, and then bomb. It’s also the turning point where Fiennes’ character starts to understand why he’s still around (like he wanted to resign and is meant to be a literal doubting Thomas imo).
That’s just my take though. Can 100% understand it feeling like that whole plot point came out of nowhere since it basically does
25:14 also they do say they have to put out a statement declaring his ministry now that he’s voting for the new pope. It’s a throwaway line, but that and the general idea of Muslim extremism is supposed to support the traditionalist’s rant and/or why the bombing occurred. It’s like 3 lines so super easy to miss in a film this dense. They probably could’ve done a better job setting it up
30:23 ok last one, but I think the cardinal being intersex is less about being the cardinal intersex and more about his blindness to physical/mortal differences. His monologue is about how he didn’t know that he was different until well into his adulthood, and I think that’s a metaphor for his ability to see past the surface level differences which create bigotry and separation in the Church. He’s a Mexican intersex man who served in the DRC and Kabul, wherein the latter he provided aid to Muslims and Christians alike. His pope name is Innocence, as in innocent to the ambition and bigotry that corrupted the other cardinals. Def plays into the “goodness prevails always” outlook though
I am a catholic convert who did NOT go to catholic school and I have often heard catholic schools are more of an inoculation to Catholicism where they give you just enough information about Catholicism to make it seem silly, but not enough to make it make sense / effectively explain it. Also I just came from your video on Lactose intolerance which I loved. Thank you for that lol
This is a perfect information density to listen to while cooking or cleaning, I wouldn't mind more in this style!
I just have to point out that it's "papacy", not "papalcy", which gets said several times. 😃
*sigh... thanks, you're right
It could be Papal See?
@@justforplaylists Um right, yes, of course, that's what I said! (Nice one >.> )
if we're pointing out minor pronunciation slips, Ralph's name is perplexingly pronounced /reɪf/ rather than /rælf/ because shibboleth
Apparently it underwent the same sound changes that got rid of the L sound in "half", "calf", "calm", and so on. I can't find any explanation for why the vowel changed differently, though. In the other examples, it just got longer, but in "Ralph" it became a diphthong for some reason
W/r/t intelligibility of Spanish by those who speak Italian or Latin, I have worked in several suit factories where there vast majority of the workforce spoke Spanish or Italian. They generally spoke in their respective languages and understood each other. I generally understood nothing lol
Great video, and I am real happy with the longer form video, I think it is exactly what this channel needs more of!
From a Catholic perspective, it’s a rather typical Hollywood representation of the Church. That being pretty grossly misrepresented and hilariously out of touch. As a piece of fiction, it’s whatever. I just wouldn’t recommend viewing it with the mindset that it’s representative of reality and that it might afford you some insight into real Church scandals.
Are there any non-Hollywood representations of Catholicism you'd recommend?
@@HGModernism I haven’t watched it myself, but I’ve heard that the movie “The Shoes of the Fisherman” is very respectful to our rituals and sensibilities. I can’t comment on the quality of the movie itself.
Although it is a Hollywood movie, made by MGM I believe.
Edit: I’ve heard Silence by Martin Scorsese was good. It follows Catholic evangelists in Japan during the Christian persecutions there. Stars Andrew Garfield.
@@Seanain_O_hEarchai shoes of a fisherman is a good one, I need to reattach it now that I have a better grasp on things
Wait! Slow down! I gotta take notes
**Writes "dead Pope is dead"**
Okay! Go on!
Really enjoying your videos, including this unscripted one. I'm impressed by your ability to put yourself out there. Keep being awesome. What's your future pope name?
You spending a half hour telling me about a, probably, niche movie in the corner on a bean bag chair is the coolest party environment.
best era of TH-cam. Down with overproduced redditor slop sponsored by Raid Shadow Legends
A couple thoughts about things you noted:
1. Many catholic priests embraced socialism under the general term liberation theology. It was particularly strong in Central America in the 70s and 80s. There are areas where the official doctrine of the church is not very far from Marxism. Notwithstanding Marx’s position on atheism. 😉
2. Financial scandal is a very real problem that has plagued the Vatican for a long time, so the fear that a leak would emerge about Mitch’s improprieties seems quite plausible. Leaks from inside the Vatican happen often.
the early apostles lived as communists, arguably liberation theology is MORE true to Christ's teachings than mainline Catholicism
@@Giantcrabz For what it's worth, mainline Catholicism has long criticized both Capitalism and Communism and generally argues more for a communitarian localism with distributist economics. Of course, your average Catholic doesn't know that and just clings to normie politics, but the Church itself has at least been remarkably consistent on this point.
@@Giantcrabz it would be nice to think the origins of the biggest religion is actually communist and redeemable from mainline reactionaries but no, the apostles were similar to other ascetic apocalypticist cults at the time, and it would be inaccurate to charaterise them as communist since the material and social factors that underpin their acts were totally different. Not to mention, liberation theology was never popular amongst the clergy or laity, *and* i suspect it is not a good idea to try to power the liberation of humanity on a completely non-material grounding and religious dogma, which are definition dogmatic and unbending yet changeable... only by a select priest class (whether they be the strictly catholic structure or local Fathers and teachers)
Communism has always been popular in Latino nations for some reason. Usually pushed by philosophers but never working in practice. It's not a surprise that it infiltrated into the Catholic church through the South American pipeline.
And no the Apostles were not communists. While they lived in a communal fashion, there was no central authority and everything was voluntary. While they encouraged people to sacrifice and lead a minimal lifestyle, it was wholly by their own volition. There were no distribution economics. You had voluntary charity but it was governed by the individual who owned the resources/property.
@@Giantcrabz Living communally isn't the same thing as being a communist, certainly not a Marxist.
There was someone shouting YES at the ending twist in the theater
Aaron Sorkin's The Dead Pope
How much walkin' we talkin' 'bout?
19:40 the way you describe this makes me desperately want Clue (1985) but in the vatican
I really like this style of casual vid, well done!
I don't get your stance on "too liberal to be part of the church". He is a liberal, he is catholic, he sees the wrongdoings of the church and wants to change it, 'cause he loves God and wants the major catholic institution to be truly good, so he acts on it, not just drops it. Makes total sense.
I assumed as a leader in the church he would be forced to act against his beliefs to adhere to the Vatican's stance on issues, for example, in which contexts to grant annulments etc
Their was a terrorist incident prior to the bombing so it didn't come out of nowhere
For the Spanish thing, it's not unreasonable to assume the cardinals at least speak Italian, which is so similar to Spanish, that if you know one, you can mostly understand the other even if you wouldn't be able to necessarily speak it yourself. And with Spain being so close by, I'm sure some also straight up know Spanish anyway. That's how I would justify it anyway 😅
Being intersex/non-binary/queer brings a certain perspective that most ppl in the world ignore. That's why he might have an advantage in ruling this divided world
I think your curiosity found you a nice TH-cam niche! Best of luck, I am loving every video :)
5:00 Maybe this is based on the concept of the Advocatus Diaboli? In the past this was a position that did something like background checks on people who were about to be sanctified. That would be rather a strech though.
Maybe? But on another note, I am never saying devil's advocate again when I can say advocatus diaboli!!! Latin makes everything more epic
ooooh! pitch for my Conclave tie in table top hidden role game:
1. It's like the card game Cheat where players need to put down named sets of cards and they need to lie about what theyre putting down in order to get rid of their cards faster.
2. Inseatd of playing cards, all the cards have classic Jesus things on them like "compassion" or "forgiveness" or whatever except some are _shame cards_ with stuff like "sex criminal" or "super racist" on them and _those_ are the cards the players are trying to hide.
3. Players can call "Snake!" when another player places their cards if they think they're lying, but if they guess wrong they loose their vote in the next Pope vote and they pick up all the cards.
4. After two cycles round the table the cards that have been placed are shuffled and revealed so everyone knows what kinds of secrets have been placed but not who placed them. The shuffled cards are placed on the discard pile and then everyone votes for Pope anonymously.
5. If you manage to get rid of all your cards during a round you get a black ball that you can use to bar a person from the Pope vote. Then you pick up an appropriate new hand of cards from the discard pile.
6. The good guys win if they manage to elect the Saint who was handed a hand with no shame cards
7. The bad guys win if they elect the Anti-pope who had like 90% evil cards or something.
8. The other players are anonymously assigned to the good team or the evil team but they don't know who is who.
9. Everyone gets a little felt cardinal hat to wear.
it wouldnt be a good game, but people would buy it for the hat.
p.s. Since I havent seen the film (obvs) I imaged all scenes playing out like that arc in Hunter x Hunter where they elect a new president for the hunter assocition and there's a running voiceover explaining everyones extremely convoluted scheming
Would be easier to count the men who aren’t angry amirite
One.. tw.. no, wait, they've started fighting
Let's gooo
I just found your channel today and just wanted to say your videos are great and you are too! Hooray for secret pope election drama!!
Spanish is related to Latin and Italian, so for even those who don't know Spanish, nearly all might be able to catch and understand the jist.
Thank you so much for the review! I was wondering if I should go watch it. Glad I didn't but also glad I learned what it was about!
SWORD AND SORCERY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that was the most unexpected easter egg in this video haahahah, now i wanna go play that again :D
iirc the explosion wasnt totally out of the blue there was an explosion before it and I think they explained that the longer the election toook the more exacerbated the tensions outside were or something
For future reference the Ralph in Ralph Fiennes is pronounced Rafe. I remember he was seen on set with a shirt or hat like 20 years ago that said "it's pronounced Rafe".
And the last name is pronounced as "Fines", like you would pay for a parking ticket ✌🏽
Sorry rowlf, if you want to be rafe then change your name to rafe.
6:42 "Anyways, he's played by John Lithgow."
Better known to pre-Millennial audiences as... well, not as "Mitch."
Older folks also have a more nuanced understanding of how to pronounce "Ralph," but the "not good with names" card was played early in the video. Apology accepted.
I have no idea how to explain this, but you have the exact aesthetic I wish I had.
I'm a dude and same
What was the future pope name that you picked out?! There have been some pretty awesome ones, so it's gotta be good
I love that you went on opening night lol
When i was high school (maybe middle school, don't remember the exact year) some of my friends and I when to the opening night of the Book of Mormon movie (not the musical lol, this was before South Park even made the Mormon episode), fully because we knew it was going to be weird.
We were basically the only ones there.
It was a very odd movie to show in the only cinema of my kinda small hometown that has like maybe 2 LDS churches.
Anyway, how I would kill to just have the free time to just go watch random movies I've never heard of (and/or bad movies) on opening nights again!
The algorithm decided I'd like this channel, I've seen your narwhal video in my recommends for a while, and even though I didn't click it, now it shows me this.
This is almost like divine intervention. 😄
algorithm lives in your walls
You just sort of showed up in my algorithm. So I am subscribing lol Also I converted to Catholicism this year at Easter.
I don’t plan on watching Conclave so thank you for the Spoilers lol
Whoa! That's super interesting, I have to ask, what faith were you before you converted?
@@HGModernism I was Free Methodist, it is an offset of Methodist lol but I much prefer Catholicism, I did so cause I wanna be a better person and a better social worker
@@TVMAN1997 Do you feel like the increased structure provided by all of the sacraments and rituals in Catholicism is what helps you be a better person? Or is it something else about it?
@@HGModernism yes! In addition to the sincerity of the Church. I believe in the True Presence (But I totally get why people don’t or have a hard time with it) but one of the other main reasons for me is Confession. I really like that sacrament a lot.
@@TVMAN1997 Yeah! I think there is something really important about structured reoccurring reflection on what we could do better or how we could be better. For me that's therapy, but I think confession is similar in some ways.
I actually laughed at the final twist. Not that being intersex is funny, but it's just so unexpected.
my family sent me my sister and brother to a religious boarding school for 3 years,
worst 3 years of my life that ruined my life and the outcome of the religious school backfired because i turned out the opposite but my sister turned out super hyper religious,
im not gonna mention which religion it is,
because people will call my criticism rude and disrespectful,
but i believe in free speech,
no matter how vile it is, you should be allowed to say it,
just don't say it directly to someone's face with the intention to stir up violence,
oh btw you're extremely gorgeous and i absolutely love your bleach blonde hair,
and i can watch and listen to you all day and never get bored,
because you're pretty and you're interesting to listen to,
your channel is one of a kind,
love it👍
This is NOT a religious movie but a masterpiece of reviling humanity if love and forgiveness!
but you never told us your pope name
Great review. I read the book before watching the film - I kinda wish I hadn't because I think I would have enjoyed the twists in the movie much more.
The movie was, with a couple of exceptions, very true to the book. Too true, in my opinion. I wanted the story in the book to be topped and tailed with some more scenes. In particular I felt cheated that I didn't see the new Pope walk out on to the balcony - maybe (if this isn't too corny) a montage at the end over the credits seeing the new Pope travelling the world and being well received.
Anyway, I enjoyed the movie.
(re: the bomb 'coming out of nowhere' - yeah, that's pretty much the point of bombs).
2:55 I think the second in command is called the Camerlengo. I heard that in a song called Party Dog by Tom Cardy, in which someone looks something up in the Wikipedia article of the Vatican.
Ah man, that's a cool title! I just looked it up and according to wikipedia: "The death of the pope is verified by the cardinal camerlengo" "During the sede vacante, as the papal vacancy is known, certain limited powers pass to the College of Cardinals, which is convoked by the dean of the College of Cardinals." So I guess that's why they call him the Dean, but I think you're basically correct, this guy just isn't the second in command?
@@HGModernism Yeah, I think he might be both? Anyways, interesting video!
@@HGModernism No, there's no second in command. If the office of the Bishop of Rome is vacant, no one gets to be "acting Pope", there just isn't a pope and nothing changes until you have one. The camerlengo assumes specific, administrative responsibilities pertaining to the election of the new pope and securing the late pope's body and personal effects. The office of camerlengo carries no authority to influence a conclave or discipline any other cardinals. It's not an appointment that makes you a heavy hitter in the Vatican, by any means.
I'm going to watch it now. Thanks for the review.
I went to Catholic elementary school so I know a lot about Catholicism, proceeds to call the papacy the papalcy. lmao
Near the end there I was reminded of an interesting quote by an American journalist and biographer, Robert Caro, who wrote biographies about Robert Moses and President Johnson, as well as many other books on the American political system. “Power doesn’t corrupt, it reveals.”
I don’t agree with this quote wholesale, any more than I agree with the “absolute power corrupts absolutely.” I think that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. You could argue that might be a consequence of the lack of absolute power, nobody has total control nor will they ever, but I don’t think it should be left there. I believe that power is a goal, and it comes at a cost. What you do for and with power are consequences of an exchange between who you are and how power changes you. If you wanted to use an example from the movie, you could look at the difference between our “Mexican cardinal” and the prior pope. One way that power changes people without necessarily making them worse people is separation: power tends to take you further from problems. The pope doesn’t see what the lives of the muslims in war torn countries are like because he isn’t there, his job as the pope necessarily separates him, both physically and socially, from the world’s problems. In other ways, it absolutely does have negative consequences on the nature of an individual’s character, but it remains true that power is also a means to an end, and great good can be done with it as well.
There's a bunch of research in the branch of political science (and sometimes sociology) that calls itself Institutionalization Theory about how, as any given group becomes an Institution and thus develops power structures (one of the usual criteria is that an institution needs to have relatively stable goals beyond any of its individuals/even after the current individuals die out, and that is usually obtained by the formalizing of leadership structure), whoever occupies said power structures becomes further detached from whatever group this Institution sprouted from somewhat as a function of how institutionalized it is. I was reading papers about that like five years ago and haven't really touched anything close to it since so i don't remember details, and on average the scholars doing this are studying political parties (i.e. how do parties balance having stability past present charismatic leaders and being in touch with their voter base) but it is to an extent more broadly applicable and i think it generally builds on your point (and also the papacy is frankly not that far from the political party/government type situations this literature covers ime)
There are about 3 seconds of audio missing at 35:04. Something was too spooky for mortal ears, methinks?
I wanted to see this last week at the Twin Cities Film fest but I didn't plan ahead and only thought about it the next day.
As a Kentuckian, I sincerely apologize for Mitch McConnel's existence.
why do the evil always live so long
The film is actually doing well at the box office. Remember, it hasn't opened in much or Europe yet and the US box office alone may be profitable
Every time I see the poster for this movie, I think that the sash is supposed to be a 1 and then look for other letters or numbers around it.
Thanks, best review ever! I totally agree with everything you say.
Wasn't interested in watching it. But now I think I am.
It's really hard to go watch that kind of movie since Habemus Papam and the Young Pope already exist.
But honestly, Habemus Papam is a great movie on the same topic. And you get to see cardinals play volleyball .
The Borgias is also an interesting show about papal intrigue
You're right, I wouldn't have watched it. I didn't even know it existed!
Who was your costume? I couldn't find it with google.
I mean looks like the classic religious movie, exaggerated characters that go out without too much trouble, the guy became a narcisist then and then a bomb happened to make it look like narcisism is bad and God kills like 50 people for it and then the humble pillock that doesn't know much about the whole thing and is still thinking going with God is the best option wins
As another commenter has brought up, liberation theology catholics are a thing and there's still a lot of them here in Brazil. I'm not personally catholic but all catholics i know irl are fairly liberal (since thats what the catholic side of my family is up to) and the conservative vibes catholics seem to all have in north america freak me out lol
Se é esquerdista não é católico. Ponto. A diferença pros católicos dos EUA é que eles são realmente católicos, mas aqui é algo mais de costume do que de seguir mesmo.
the current pope actually supposedly had liberation theology leanings but also did some really shady stuff
@@micaeldias7400 I felt a bit down today, but now I feel glad that I don't live in your one dimensional world. Thank you
@@Manfred_Messer This is a catholic teaching, sir. If you vote for someone that supports leftist policies such as abortion, you are committing a grave sin.
Coming back to this later after I see the movie
I kind of hoped for a rant on the last real conclave when I came here, but I guess there's not enough information about it to be had.
Traditional Italian Cardinal also vapes at random which I found hilarious
This video really makes you feel like someone is telling you about a movie they saw
Thanks for this thoughtful review. Regarding Tedesco (the Italian traditionalist), I think his energy is most definitely villainous. But there are a few nuances. For example, his criticism of diversity is actually compelling in some ways: including many different types of people is useless if they don’t actually talk to each other. Another example is that the film questions whether he is truly a traditionalist. He quotes Nietzsche (in ecclesial Latin no less) to Lawrence, which is pretty modern of him. We also see him vape the whole time, like a zoomer lol. Finally and I think most importantly, it’s not really clear that he wants to be pope himself so much as merely influence the election and in that sense I think he is more open to the process than other characters like Bellini (Stanely Tucci) and especially Tremblay (John Lithgow). This is a film about how whatever we expect to happen, want to happen, and all our worry about that, is set aside when the truth breaks in from unexpected angles. I think despite all his villainous qualities, Tedesco has a better understanding of that than some of the other characters.
I would never watch this myself, but I appreciated your review lol. Second channel for movie reviews when?
can i ask what shirt that is bc i want it lol
15 minutes in, this movie sounds like a rehash of Angles and Daemons :D
Saying someone looks like Mitch McConnell is savage. lmao
100/10 video but how could you not share your pope name, now i will die curious
theory: this is a 10,000 year prequal to Dune.... this is the start of the order of the Bene Gesserit. the new pope not having the hysterectomy is the foreshadowing of the Kwisatz Haderach.
the theater i saw this movie in was PACKED. all old people 😂 i even saw two guys arguing with the box office girl bc she wouldn't sell them tickets
Carlos diehz deserves more love! I also knew it wasn’t going to be about old men being into little boys and In glad it wasn’t that because that’s overly done
I'd be Pope Flavius I (Flavius Clemmons is a real name in the Bible lol)
I'm voting for you Pope Flavius, don't get into any financial scandals like Mitch McLithgow or so help me.
Everyone in the College of Cardinals has already picked out the name they’d rather go by? More like College of Eggs, am I right?
Family and Irish Grandmother are all Baptist. Went to Catholic school for 1st-8th grade for the "education". I do believe the small class size and attention helped me flourish. That said, it ABSOLUTELY laid the foundation for me to say "wayment, this shit is all fake." Which led to a vast search of knowledge as I've gotten older.
"Vast search of knowledge" i.e. watching Richard Dawkins videos on yt.
The most unbelievable thing about this movie is that there's 108 bishops in a room and only one has a reputation for being a catholic and doesn't get high fives for it.
your hair looks amazing.
30:14 nah if youre italian you can understand spanish pretty easily. The reverse isn't true though.
Alright I have watched the movie so now I can watch this
how does your hair keep changing length and texture??? i am bewildered
Started watching with legitimate hopes for parallels between this and 12 Angry Men, because I also feel that "12 Angry Men but in the Catholic Church" could be so interesting for a movie. I guess just the fact that there are men and there's anger involved technically suffices, but oh well. RIP Dead Pope 🙏
Wonder if it's one of those cases where so much is spent on the talent, that other things (marketing, adapting the book into a screenplay, etc) are sacrificed. Like, it broaches multiple topics without really doing them justice, and no one had really heard about its release. Including me. So I'm glad for this video alerting me to its existence and potentially-fraught development!
I found the sorta "Catholic-adjacent" perspective a little relatable and thought it lent itself to the topic. The informal, off-the-cuff style of this one was fun, too
😊 would definitely watch more of these, not necessarily film reviews but whatever's worth a rant
Also, amazing costume reveal!!
Ah sorry for the unintentional click-bait. I wanted to make something quick (for me) and informal, and to do a thorough analysis I'd need to re-watch 12 Angry Men and spend time actually writing something passable haha. I hope another TH-camr does though, I think there were some interesting parallels.
@@HGModernism omgg it made for a really great hook! This video did a better job at showing off all of the other things the film tried to include beyond just the persuasion, deliberation, and decision of everything. Which kinda ended up being a lot of subject matter, so this longer semi-structured rant honestly fits ^.^
It sounds like this movie had a lot to adapt from the source material, plus the more film-specific challenges you mention that are inherent to making a modern Hollywood mystery thriller film palatable to those both inside and outside the Catholic faith. Pretty ambitious if you ask me. And to throw comparisons to 12 Angry Men (and Everything Everywhere All At Once, too, I guess haha) on top of all of that? That's a heavy burden of expectation to deliver on, even for someone like massive sorcerer-performer talent Ralph Fiennes.
idk just feel like there are a ton of reasons for me to find this movie and its existence intriguing, but also don't know if I would've heard of it otherwise. So thx for the video! And the response! love the channel.
happy Halloweekend =)
I like to imagine your just sitting in the corner of the cinema staircase right after the movie trying to talk to your fellow movie-goers on their way out
9:13
I’m a bit drunk. My last encounter with Pope Gregory VII, may God rest his soul, ended because he beat me in darts and I cried about it so hard that I had to be carried out of the Vatican. I’d known the guy for 13 years and he’d never once mentioned being good at darts. I really thought I could take him but it appears that Lord the Father had other plans. I didn’t kill him.
I think you could be pope, HG.
I've been watching your vids for a while now, and I was curious- why is your accent so different here than in your other videos?
Are your playing it up more for entertainment purposes in your more formal videos?
Not meant to be accusatory or rude, just genuinely curious.
Huh, I don't hear my own accent so I'm not sure. To me it's the difference of going slowly and trying to enunciate. In my formal videos I have an outline I'm following so I get a few takes to make sure all the words are clear. This one I'm just chatting and wanted to do it quickly in only one take, so I worried about it less?
@HGModernism is English your first language?
There's a myth that during the middle ages the Catholic Church elected a Pope who later turned out to be a woman, and became known as Pope Joan. This didn't actually happen.
I think I remember that one cardinal's actor from 3rd rock from the sun 😅
im gay