*edit: I use the Garmin ultra fit nylon band* I consistently chart my Fenix 8 HR sensor against my Polar H10 or Polar Verity, it's almost perfectly in line every single time. I think the Garmin is fantastic for a wrist based optical HR sensor. You can pay all the money in the world but they really can't make any better of HR detection at the wrist with current tech.
Yes I think that there are inherent limitations to wearing an optical sensor on your wrist and Garmin (and most other brands) get it right the vast majority of the time. There are just some scenarios where almost any brand will struggle. Thanks for watching and taking the time to share! 💪🏃
@ exactly, they all struggle with things like strength but even in that, I don’t personally think it’s to a degree that the data is “bad” or unusable in most cases. I think we’re in a culture where we (end users, not reviewers) get so caught up in minute details (by myself a ton, lol) that we miss the fact that even with minor discrepancies it doesn’t change the overall purpose of the function. I.e. a few BPM of variance here or there isn’t going to change how I train or the effect of the workout. On the other hand, videos like this and other reviews definitely keeps pushing the manufacturers to keep doing better and innovating, so it’s a great thing. Keep up the awesome videos! I love them all!
I think as a scientific test of course you can't have a sample size of 1 with no control. What QS does is a personal watch review (like anyone else) but with some insights from his background in biological informatics and some nice visualizations. I think his videos are quite valuable, but I can see how his branding might lead people to think he is scientifically testing health and fitness technology
Thank you for adding common sense to this issue. Personally I will always buy a rugged, thick watch like Fenix 8 than some girly coin-thin variant and take appropriate steps to make it perform at its best (properly positioning the watch and adjusting the strap tension, etc.).
Well done and informative. I’ve been happy with the Fenix 8 47mm heart rate accuracy - for reference, 195mm wrist size. Nylon bands do also help quite a bit.
Yeah I definitely think that was a factor. I really appreciate the work QS does and hopefully a little extra perspective is helpful to others. Thanks for watching! 💪🏃
I think an important thing to note, the Fenix didnt have a heart rate sensor originally. It was something added on a later model. Like you said HR isnt the entire point of a rugged outdoor watch. It was added later as a convenience. Like the original Fenix watches you should have a chest strap if you really want to train by precise heart rate zones.
I've got an older Fenix 7 and the OHR is sensational for running, riding and climbing. Love it. I've also got a low body fat, white skin (let's light through easily) and I know how to strap it down 😄
Just bought Garmin fenix 8. Have to say amazingly impressed with optical Hr as this has never worked for me with other watches. (Always too cold or too loose or too tight’) … today the Fenix 8 was spot on - the whole time … and in cold conditions. Switched back from AWU 2 to Garmin… all good 👍
Its so individual really. And ambient temps have a lot to do with it. If its cold the sensor will perform bad because of poor perfusion and vasoconstriction. If you look at his indoor workouts, the sampling is good. DC Rainmaker who lives in a warm climate, has good accuracy from Garmin sensors, as well as Des Fit on youtube. Apple performs well, because it stops recording if it cant get a good sampling, instead of just outputing something wrong.
Do you think that ambient temperature is the predominant variable affecting accuracy? So if QS reviewed the watch in the Summer he would have good findings and if Des or Ray reviewed in the Winter they would have had poor results? Also, that's interesting about Apple - I can see that being beneficial for health monitoring, but it sounds like a nightmare for HR zone training.
@ warmer climates and warmer ambient temperatures, result in vasodilation, allowing the sensor to detect venous return, consequently resulting in better data. Algorithms are a big thing as well, and I’m sure Apple has the best algorithms. The size of the watch as you stated and the ability of the watch to be stable on the wrist is a big component as well, but temperature is huge. Someone testing an optical heart rate sensor in cold weather should not expect the best outcome for that sensor, and when compared to other sensors, the climate should be noted. It’s not fair if he tested the fenix 8 in the winter, and tested the Coros in the summer. Also, if you look at his indoor training, they most all perform just fine. The margins of difference is much less.
That's a good point. I did see QS had the Pace 3 as one of the highest rated watches in many areas, then retested it (I think when the Pace Pro came out?) and it performed poorly. Now I want to look back and see the time of year as well as the performance indoors vs outdoors 🤔
@GarminPro As a Garmin Pro, I have a question if you don't mind - more sideways related than directly. I currently train with an old Forerunner 935 and have started to integrate Zone 2 training into my routine. I am also doing a Jeff Galloway Garmin Coach programme (these are fantastic). However, whenever I do a Zone 2 run, my Training Status goes to Unproductive and lowers my VO2 Max number. This appears to go against all current training knowledge (Tadej Pogačar implements Z2 for upwards of 90% of his training, as an example). The only thing I can find, is that to remain "Productive", the Garmin algorithm requires that you do at least 10 mins continuously at 70% of Max HR or above. So, in effect, Garmin's position is to demote Zone 2 efforts. My question - is this watch specific or across the board? I'm very close to deciding whether to buy a Fenix 8 or not, and this may be a factor. Many thanks and sorry to hijack the conversation! Cheers from Sydney, David PS. From your comments here, living in a more moderate location will likely promote better HR readings if I do buy a Fenix 8!
@@DaveDoesFitness I found that Apple fits better against the wrist bone, along with their algorithms their heart monitoring is pretty damn good. And his small wrists it'll never read well. My forerunner and Samsung Ultra averages are almost identical. It's so subjective.
I have a fenix 7X pro solar and I was having the same issues of the watch moving on my wrist. I bought straps that are like on the Enduro three the nylon ones and before every run I tighten down the watch a little bit more and it doesn’t move anymore at all gets better heart rate accuracy on point again.
QS did some tests to show how HR accuracy is very sensitive to multiple factors. He did tests comparing wearing same watch on left are right hand, he compared HR accuracy of the same watch but with different straps. He tested the same watch on 2-3 other people. All this results were different. There are many youtubers testing HR accuracy. There are at lest 3-4 youtubers that get almost perfect accuracy no matter the watch. There are many people on Apple forum complaining that they get horrible HR accuracy. So it all depends on the person wearing the watch.
Omg , that was very useful , after all of d hours of watching videos about A W s n garmin ones this vid did actually answered my questions , wow thank u 🤝
Makes complete sense to me. I am in the chest strap camp for tracking actual workouts so the accuracy of the watch isn't quite so important for that stuff.
I used to always get the 51mm size watches as i do have big wrists and they look a better fit. I currently have the 47mm Fenix 7 pro with the elevate 5 and it sits so much better, I'm also using a nylon strap as it's more adjustable than silicon straps. For what it's worth, I use the Coros HRM arm strap and have found the 47mm Fenix 7 Pro to be on the money 95% of the time, it only really struggles with strength training which most watches tend to find difficult anyways. Moral of the story, get the right size watch and strap combination for a comfortable fit to reduce movement and loss of skin contact
Yes! Definitely this! Get the right size (if you want it more accurate), get a nylon strap (if you want it more accurate), and then just realize there are some limitations that almost all wrist based sensors will have. Good stuff and thanks for watching!
I think it's highly individual because when I've tested my Fenix 7 against my HRM Pro they are pretty much identical - always within a few BPM of each other.
Yeah, good call out Scott. I tried to keep the focus of this video narrow to heartrate to keep it from getting too long, but HRV is the "wellness" measurement I reference the most. It could probably be an entire separate video
I wear the enduro 2 on my left wrist and the AWU2 on my right wrist, I always get pretty consistent readings out of both. Every time I look down at my watches the heart rate is basically the same. The key is to have the straps tight, almost uncomfortable tight. The enduro 2 has the gen 4 heart rate sensor and still gets very accurate readings. Ive also worn my polar h10 to compare and both watches and can say, they are extremely accurate if you wear them correctly. It's not the watches fault if you don't wear it correctly. Tighten the strap down and you'll have near perfect readings.
You nailed it, Dave. If a person wore a size 8 running shoe, then had poor performance on a run wearing some size 12 hiking boots, we'd all recognize the problem. You've gotta match the tool to the real world application. Garmin provides the Ultra-fit nylon band on the Enduro 3 for better HR performance for serious runners. The wrap-around bands on the Instinct series reduces movement, but far and away the largest factor is WATCH SIZE! You'd be an excellent engineer. :)
I won’t be so nice I be straight up rob is a straight apple fan boy. I stopped watching every time he reviews a new watch he mentions & shows “the Apple Watch is the accurate device” 👆every video same mentions. Even top of his charts every AW including the ultra is like no.1 Is it the most accurate device yes but is it perfect hell NO. The number no.1 con AW needs iPhone tough luck for any android user. But the biggest con weak pathetic battery life it’s known fact AW won’t longer day or two before it dies I’m a android user my device pixel 9 pro xl, I use windows pc, Samsung tablet, my main watch Fenix 8 51mm solar for my needs and training superior 1 month battery life garmin never lets me down 👍 I like the videos Dave 👏
My Forerunner 255 Music has also recently started doing the amazing trick where for the first 5-10 minutes of an indoor run, it measures my HR below 100bpm. Never did this before, it was always 1-3bpm in line with my chest strap... but this just started last month. The optical sensor is making great contact with my skin, it's indoors/warm, I can take the Forerunner off and tighten it back onto my wrist, and it just refuses to accurately measure that my HR is well above 100. It stays "stuck" showing a low HR while my chest strap and SE 2 are showing 130bpm+. This issue is across the board for many Garmin devices in the help forums, and I imagine it's a software glitch. (I don't have any tattoos, and wear my smart watches up, away from my wrist). Garmin just consistently proves that paying more and more money for a new device does not yield better metrics (see also: their terrible sleep tracking). Maybe Garmin will understand why the convex HR sensor on Apple's devices works so well to maintain contact, and Gen 6 will incorporate this. Or maybe they'll continue releasing older gen optical sensors on devices that cost more and more, and people will continue complaining in their forums. I get that the device needs to maintain skin contact, and larger batteries/devices are tougher to keep properly seated, but I think there are also software issues at play. Everything about Garmin devices is nice- battery life, faces, reports, presentation of data... the actual accuracy and collection of the data is less than impressive. I can live with the HR sensor being a few bpm off from the chest strap for runs, and I honestly think Garmin's GPS game is unbeatable, but Rob's issues seem valid- it's a frustrating experience if you're comparing the quality of data with an Apple device that costs a lot less.
QS usually states in his reviews that he is only a sample of 1 person and he asks his audience to check out other reviewers, but the simple empirical truth is that Garmin’s HR is not as good as Apple’s HR whether it is a small or big garmin watch. It’s not really all about the size. Apple also has the ultra and even that gets good reviews from the QS. Sleep tracking stages is also poor on garmin but it has excellent battery life and better fitness metrics
Wore both a fenix 6 and an apple ultra for a year. Work out 10-12 hours a week and no statistical difference between the two for me so I question the empirical truth
Yeah, I agree that Apple's HR sensor seems to have an edge. It's interesting to see the different strengths of each device though. Thanks for watching! 💪🏃
That's wy i use the coros armband. You can put inside your forearm, wher e you see a big vein. If you don’t use a nylon band and don’t wear the watch above the wrist bone, the heart rate test can’t be serious.
I believe the heart rate sensor in the Apple Watch 10 is better than any Garmin sensor or competitor (at least for me). But why would Garmin invest in upgrading its sensor or improving its algorithm if that could ultimately hurt sales of its chest straps? They won’t-just like they haven’t bothered to refine their app. Also, I don’t understand why people get annoyed with Quantified’s videos. Sure, his results have limitations, but highlighting shortcomings benefits all consumers. Fanboyism and a Plato’s Cave mentality won’t help anyone.
It does seem like Apple is top of the heap right now. I believe the design of the Apple Watch does help the performance as well. I'm not sure if you're referring to my comments on his videos as me being annoyed, but I'm a fan of his channel and what he does. This video was more about taking a step back to see what other limitations would contribute to the results he got and add some more perspective. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! 💪🏃
@@DaveDoesFitness Oh, I’m sorry! I wasn’t referring to your comments in the video. I find this subject really interesting, and your channel is great! I was talking more about things you see on the web or Reddit. Yes, I agree with your reasoning. There are many factors that can affect the results, like wrist size, weight, temperature, etc. The trickiest ones to track are often intervals and strength training.
I think you hit it on the nail here. There’s too many factors to consider an Optic sensor good or bad. I have the F8 47 and the instinct 3 50mm. The instinct is MUCH bigger and thicker. If you put them side by side the whole orange ring and to plastic of the Instinct stick out above the f8. Yet, the Instinct feels closer to the wrist with a much comfortable fit. The difference? The bands. The integrated design makes a world of difference and makes the instinct three wear much smaller than the F8. That has an impact on accuracy
Glad I'm not crazy with that strap observation and someone else has the same thoughts. It just holds in place better and I like how you put it ... it "wears smaller" with that strap design. Thanks for watching!
Note quantified scientist says he wears Garmin most of the time. I like some of the sensor performance of the apple watches but I don’t think I can live with that dorky little square on my wrist, nor do I want another device that needs daily charging. The Garmin looks like an actual decent looking men’s watch.
Merci pour les petites astuces pour améliorer la précision, meme si en hiver pas évident de mettre la montre très en avant du poignet. De plus, obligée d'avoir un grand écran, car mauvaise vue, alors tant pis car j'ai un petit poignet. Mais je vais essayer votre méthode et voir si en serrant encore plus le bracelet je vois une différence sur ma Garmin 965
I have Garmin Epix Pro 47mm and Huawei GT5 Pro they both are having good heart rate sensors for my needs like running and strength training but I think Huawei is just a bit better with the heart rate especially in high heart rate zones. On other hand I like Garmin training feedback more and I am willing to sacrifice 1-2 heart beats :)
I always use nylon band. Those silicon bands are crap. They are heavy and uncomfortable. I'm a Huawei watch user and I'm very happy with it. Of course I swapped the original silicon band, for nylon one. There are easily available at Ali Express and they are quite cheap there.
I may have to check out a Huawei watch at some point. Lots of happy users in the comments. And yes I've progressed from 1st party bands -> Amazon -> Ali Express 😂
Garmin watches optical sensor have also been horrible for me. Fitbit and Apple were much more accurate. Garmin watches are just so much better overall though I just stick with garmin + a chest strap
I tested 2 different Garmin versus an amazfit and a mobvoi ticwatch. In all cases, the Garmin did better. I'm not saying the Garmin did perfect. But I'd give them like an 8 out of 10. Compared to a chest strap, I also tested some cheaper watches. And the results I got with those was comedic, and had nothing to do with reality. In general, I really don't mind the bigger Garmin.I don't have a huge wrist either, but i'm also not averse to cinching it down.
That's interesting. I watched your T Rex 3 review (great video btw!) so I'm assuming that's the Amazfit you're referencing. And recently QS had that exact watch testing better than any Garmin. I think that lends itself to the idea that other external factors can make a pretty big difference. Thanks for watching gray dog!
@DaveDoesFitness it was the Trex 3. Although rumor has it they have updated their firmware to make some of those initial dips go away. Appreciate you watching and feedback, BTW! I am going to be playing with a chest strap more this weekend on the bike, so maybe more data to follow.
Anyone having issues with step counter on fenix 8? Got my first ever garmin and I wake up to 200 steps, I walked downstairs this morning and it said I was on 686, like wtf? How do I fix this
sup, I don't mind the fact that the readings might be a few percent less accurate then some other gizmo. its is more than enough actually. and much simpler then messing with an ekg band. the band won't be comfortable to crawl with. no go for combat fitness.
Yes sounds like a heartrate strap wouldn't be good for your use case and having rugged gear is more important. I did find that the averages over workouts were pretty much exactly the same so you can have confidence your heartrate tracking is still great. Thanks for watching! 💪🏃
Problem is, all good Garmins are too chunky and too big to be a sport watch for me. The new Instinct 3 is 45mm minimum. My wrist is ~18cm, and I can't wear something more than 42mm in diameter. And having Instinct 2s, I see the size is not a real problem... When the chest strap shows 180 and you see 120 on your wrist, you want to give up on Garmin and never trust them.
I don't know if it's bad but it's definitely not better than the sensor on a lot of cheap alternatives to Garmin. Like my Redmi Watch 5 (99€) or the Huawei Fit 3 (140€).
Do you think that the sensors themselves perform step for step with a Garmin or are any of the other variables I cover in the video at play? Note: I have not tried either watch so I'm just curious of your experience. Thanks for watching! 💪🏃
@@DaveDoesFitnessI've often tested them directly against each other by wearing one on the left and one on the right. Huawei Fit 3 vs Garmin Fenix 7 Pro for example - GPS as well as heart rate was the same. Maybe 1 beat difference if at all. Same with heart rate of the Redmi Watch 5 (didn't test GPS yet) vs Garmin Instinct 2X but the Redmi had a bit of lag. But comparing the heart rate afterwards, they were the same. I always use velcro or other elastic straps on the watches. I also compared the Amazfit Cheetah Square to the Garmin Instinct 2X. The Cheetah sometimes seems to struggle in cold temperatures however. It's rather small. But when it works - heart rate was also pretty much the same. The main differences I see are the apps and other stuff like HRV, VO2max, etc. For example - Zepp and Garmin Connect show the same VO2max for me but Huawei is a bit higher. And customization is non existent on the Redmi Watch 5 but it does everything I need as a hobby runner who just runs for health reasons.
@@DaveDoesFitnessstrange - I thought I had written a long reply but it's gone (OK, it reappeared - not sure what's going on with my TH-cam). 1) I wear all watches on velcro straps to keep them snuggly on the wrist. 2) I used various Garmins - Fenix 7 Pro (47mm), 7X (which sat perfectly on my wrist because it's so big and I have a flat wrist - so for me the 7 Pro was more top heavy and moved more than the 7X). I tested (by wearing one on the right and one on the left) the Fenix 7 Pro against Huawei Fit 3, GT3 and GT5 - barely any difference in heart rate (maybe 1 beat here or there). Also tested Garmin Instinct 2X vs Redmi Watch 5, Amazfit Cheetah Square and Huawei watches with similar results apart from the fact that the Cheetah Square struggles when it's cold. The Redmi Watch 5 was most surprising honestly because it's so cheap.
An excellent balanced review, Garmin optical HR sensor is just fine, I think Apple does it best...but as youve said theres limitations to any optical sensor, we cant expect a BMW to beat a lamborghi so why would people compare optical to ECG!!!
It's a lousy product. I always run with Polar band because the Fenix 8 is terrible on my wrist. As for most. Some are a bit more lucky though. But I think many only compare the average heart rate and thas says exactly nothing.
je ne comprends pas ma garmin 965. Elle ne me détecte absolument aucunes données anaérobies, contrairement à Coros. Comme la FC, max 150 alors que polar m'affiche 196 au maximum. Essayé le brassard Coros, rien n'y change, mais je dois dire que meme serré a fond (pas pratique d'ailleurs le systeme), il bougeait quand meme. J'ai une mauvaise circulation du sang aux extrémités (syndrome de Raynaud), je ne pense pas que ce la joue. Aussi très réticente d'acheter un brassard Polar, peur d'un échec comme avec coros
Yep, what you said makes perfect sense. If you don't use a tool correctly it's not going to give you the best results. Whether it's running sneakers for a runner or a high-tech bathing suit for an Olympic swimmer not having the best fit will give you poor results. Getting great, accurate results means understanding the limitations of the technology you are using. One size doesn't fit all. 😄
*edit: I use the Garmin ultra fit nylon band*
I consistently chart my Fenix 8 HR sensor against my Polar H10 or Polar Verity, it's almost perfectly in line every single time. I think the Garmin is fantastic for a wrist based optical HR sensor. You can pay all the money in the world but they really can't make any better of HR detection at the wrist with current tech.
Yes I think that there are inherent limitations to wearing an optical sensor on your wrist and Garmin (and most other brands) get it right the vast majority of the time. There are just some scenarios where almost any brand will struggle. Thanks for watching and taking the time to share! 💪🏃
@ exactly, they all struggle with things like strength but even in that, I don’t personally think it’s to a degree that the data is “bad” or unusable in most cases. I think we’re in a culture where we (end users, not reviewers) get so caught up in minute details (by myself a ton, lol) that we miss the fact that even with minor discrepancies it doesn’t change the overall purpose of the function. I.e. a few BPM of variance here or there isn’t going to change how I train or the effect of the workout.
On the other hand, videos like this and other reviews definitely keeps pushing the manufacturers to keep doing better and innovating, so it’s a great thing. Keep up the awesome videos! I love them all!
Do you get good results with the Verity Sense?
@itsgigarf I do, it’s almost perfectly in line with my polar h10.
The tests done are basically flawed. One size arm. One guy choosing how tight to adjust the strap. Therefore statistically irrelevant.
I think as a scientific test of course you can't have a sample size of 1 with no control. What QS does is a personal watch review (like anyone else) but with some insights from his background in biological informatics and some nice visualizations. I think his videos are quite valuable, but I can see how his branding might lead people to think he is scientifically testing health and fitness technology
Thank you for adding common sense to this issue. Personally I will always buy a rugged, thick watch like Fenix 8 than some girly coin-thin variant and take appropriate steps to make it perform at its best (properly positioning the watch and adjusting the strap tension, etc.).
Well done and informative.
I’ve been happy with the Fenix 8 47mm heart rate accuracy - for reference, 195mm wrist size. Nylon bands do also help quite a bit.
Thanks Jason! Nylon bands definitely make a difference in getting a good lockdown for runs 🏃
Thank you! It was clear to me that his results were muddied by the movement of the, heavy, fenix 8. Very good info.
Yeah I definitely think that was a factor. I really appreciate the work QS does and hopefully a little extra perspective is helpful to others. Thanks for watching! 💪🏃
I think an important thing to note, the Fenix didnt have a heart rate sensor originally. It was something added on a later model.
Like you said HR isnt the entire point of a rugged outdoor watch. It was added later as a convenience. Like the original Fenix watches you should have a chest strap if you really want to train by precise heart rate zones.
That's actually a really good insight that I hadn't even considered!
I've got an older Fenix 7 and the OHR is sensational for running, riding and climbing. Love it.
I've also got a low body fat, white skin (let's light through easily) and I know how to strap it down 😄
Just bought Garmin fenix 8. Have to say amazingly impressed with optical Hr as this has never worked for me with other watches. (Always too cold or too loose or too tight’) … today the Fenix 8 was spot on - the whole time … and in cold conditions. Switched back from AWU 2 to Garmin… all good 👍
Hey James 🤝 TH-camrs supporting TH-camrs, love it!
@ always !! Spreading the good vibes !😎
Solid advice and observations. 👍🏼
Appreciate it! Thanks for watching! 💪🏃
Its so individual really. And ambient temps have a lot to do with it. If its cold the sensor will perform bad because of poor perfusion and vasoconstriction. If you look at his indoor workouts, the sampling is good. DC Rainmaker who lives in a warm climate, has good accuracy from Garmin sensors, as well as Des Fit on youtube. Apple performs well, because it stops recording if it cant get a good sampling, instead of just outputing something wrong.
Do you think that ambient temperature is the predominant variable affecting accuracy? So if QS reviewed the watch in the Summer he would have good findings and if Des or Ray reviewed in the Winter they would have had poor results?
Also, that's interesting about Apple - I can see that being beneficial for health monitoring, but it sounds like a nightmare for HR zone training.
@ warmer climates and warmer ambient temperatures, result in vasodilation, allowing the sensor to detect venous return, consequently resulting in better data. Algorithms are a big thing as well, and I’m sure Apple has the best algorithms. The size of the watch as you stated and the ability of the watch to be stable on the wrist is a big component as well, but temperature is huge. Someone testing an optical heart rate sensor in cold weather should not expect the best outcome for that sensor, and when compared to other sensors, the climate should be noted. It’s not fair if he tested the fenix 8 in the winter, and tested the Coros in the summer. Also, if you look at his indoor training, they most all perform just fine. The margins of difference is much less.
That's a good point. I did see QS had the Pace 3 as one of the highest rated watches in many areas, then retested it (I think when the Pace Pro came out?) and it performed poorly. Now I want to look back and see the time of year as well as the performance indoors vs outdoors 🤔
@GarminPro As a Garmin Pro, I have a question if you don't mind - more sideways related than directly. I currently train with an old Forerunner 935 and have started to integrate Zone 2 training into my routine. I am also doing a Jeff Galloway Garmin Coach programme (these are fantastic).
However, whenever I do a Zone 2 run, my Training Status goes to Unproductive and lowers my VO2 Max number. This appears to go against all current training knowledge (Tadej Pogačar implements Z2 for upwards of 90% of his training, as an example).
The only thing I can find, is that to remain "Productive", the Garmin algorithm requires that you do at least 10 mins continuously at 70% of Max HR or above. So, in effect, Garmin's position is to demote Zone 2 efforts.
My question - is this watch specific or across the board? I'm very close to deciding whether to buy a Fenix 8 or not, and this may be a factor.
Many thanks and sorry to hijack the conversation! Cheers from Sydney, David
PS. From your comments here, living in a more moderate location will likely promote better HR readings if I do buy a Fenix 8!
@@DaveDoesFitness I found that Apple fits better against the wrist bone, along with their algorithms their heart monitoring is pretty damn good. And his small wrists it'll never read well. My forerunner and Samsung Ultra averages are almost identical. It's so subjective.
I have a fenix 7X pro solar and I was having the same issues of the watch moving on my wrist. I bought straps that are like on the Enduro three the nylon ones and before every run I tighten down the watch a little bit more and it doesn’t move anymore at all gets better heart rate accuracy on point again.
QS did some tests to show how HR accuracy is very sensitive to multiple factors. He did tests comparing wearing same watch on left are right hand, he compared HR accuracy of the same watch but with different straps. He tested the same watch on 2-3 other people. All this results were different.
There are many youtubers testing HR accuracy. There are at lest 3-4 youtubers that get almost perfect accuracy no matter the watch.
There are many people on Apple forum complaining that they get horrible HR accuracy.
So it all depends on the person wearing the watch.
Omg , that was very useful , after all of d hours of watching videos about A W s n garmin ones this vid did actually answered my questions , wow thank u 🤝
You're very welcome Daniel. I'm glad the video could be helpful for you
Makes complete sense to me. I am in the chest strap camp for tracking actual workouts so the accuracy of the watch isn't quite so important for that stuff.
I find it very odd how some folks complain endlessly about not getting accurate readings from the OHR, but also flat out refuse to wear a $30 strap.
I used to always get the 51mm size watches as i do have big wrists and they look a better fit. I currently have the 47mm Fenix 7 pro with the elevate 5 and it sits so much better, I'm also using a nylon strap as it's more adjustable than silicon straps.
For what it's worth, I use the Coros HRM arm strap and have found the 47mm Fenix 7 Pro to be on the money 95% of the time, it only really struggles with strength training which most watches tend to find difficult anyways.
Moral of the story, get the right size watch and strap combination for a comfortable fit to reduce movement and loss of skin contact
Yes! Definitely this! Get the right size (if you want it more accurate), get a nylon strap (if you want it more accurate), and then just realize there are some limitations that almost all wrist based sensors will have. Good stuff and thanks for watching!
I think it's highly individual because when I've tested my Fenix 7 against my HRM Pro they are pretty much identical - always within a few BPM of each other.
AWU2 on a heavy wach side too! But more accurate from what i see
No mention here about HRV accuracy. I find that to be quite inconsistent from one night to the next. Any data on that??
Yeah, good call out Scott. I tried to keep the focus of this video narrow to heartrate to keep it from getting too long, but HRV is the "wellness" measurement I reference the most. It could probably be an entire separate video
I wear the enduro 2 on my left wrist and the AWU2 on my right wrist, I always get pretty consistent readings out of both. Every time I look down at my watches the heart rate is basically the same. The key is to have the straps tight, almost uncomfortable tight. The enduro 2 has the gen 4 heart rate sensor and still gets very accurate readings. Ive also worn my polar h10 to compare and both watches and can say, they are extremely accurate if you wear them correctly. It's not the watches fault if you don't wear it correctly. Tighten the strap down and you'll have near perfect readings.
You nailed it, Dave. If a person wore a size 8 running shoe, then had poor performance on a run wearing some size 12 hiking boots, we'd all recognize the problem. You've gotta match the tool to the real world application.
Garmin provides the Ultra-fit nylon band on the Enduro 3 for better HR performance for serious runners. The wrap-around bands on the Instinct series reduces movement, but far and away the largest factor is WATCH SIZE!
You'd be an excellent engineer. :)
I won’t be so nice I be straight up rob is a straight apple fan boy. I stopped watching every time he reviews a new watch he mentions & shows “the Apple Watch is the accurate device”
👆every video same mentions. Even top of his charts every AW including the ultra is like no.1
Is it the most accurate device yes but is it perfect hell NO. The number no.1 con AW needs iPhone tough luck for any android user. But the biggest con weak pathetic battery life it’s known fact AW won’t longer day or two before it dies
I’m a android user my device pixel 9 pro xl, I use windows pc, Samsung tablet, my main watch Fenix 8 51mm solar for my needs and training superior 1 month battery life garmin never lets me down 👍
I like the videos Dave 👏
I recently upgraded from an Instinct 1 to an Epix pro. My feeling is that the elevate v5 is much more accurate than what I had before.
Yes, Garmin has definitely made some good progress over the generations
My Forerunner 255 Music has also recently started doing the amazing trick where for the first 5-10 minutes of an indoor run, it measures my HR below 100bpm. Never did this before, it was always 1-3bpm in line with my chest strap... but this just started last month. The optical sensor is making great contact with my skin, it's indoors/warm, I can take the Forerunner off and tighten it back onto my wrist, and it just refuses to accurately measure that my HR is well above 100. It stays "stuck" showing a low HR while my chest strap and SE 2 are showing 130bpm+. This issue is across the board for many Garmin devices in the help forums, and I imagine it's a software glitch. (I don't have any tattoos, and wear my smart watches up, away from my wrist).
Garmin just consistently proves that paying more and more money for a new device does not yield better metrics (see also: their terrible sleep tracking). Maybe Garmin will understand why the convex HR sensor on Apple's devices works so well to maintain contact, and Gen 6 will incorporate this. Or maybe they'll continue releasing older gen optical sensors on devices that cost more and more, and people will continue complaining in their forums. I get that the device needs to maintain skin contact, and larger batteries/devices are tougher to keep properly seated, but I think there are also software issues at play.
Everything about Garmin devices is nice- battery life, faces, reports, presentation of data... the actual accuracy and collection of the data is less than impressive. I can live with the HR sensor being a few bpm off from the chest strap for runs, and I honestly think Garmin's GPS game is unbeatable, but Rob's issues seem valid- it's a frustrating experience if you're comparing the quality of data with an Apple device that costs a lot less.
QS usually states in his reviews that he is only a sample of 1 person and he asks his audience to check out other reviewers, but the simple empirical truth is that Garmin’s HR is not as good as Apple’s HR whether it is a small or big garmin watch. It’s not really all about the size. Apple also has the ultra and even that gets good reviews from the QS. Sleep tracking stages is also poor on garmin but it has excellent battery life and better fitness metrics
Wore both a fenix 6 and an apple ultra for a year. Work out 10-12 hours a week and no statistical difference between the two for me so I question the empirical truth
Yeah, I agree that Apple's HR sensor seems to have an edge. It's interesting to see the different strengths of each device though. Thanks for watching! 💪🏃
That's wy i use the coros armband. You can put inside your forearm, wher e you see a big vein. If you don’t use a nylon band and don’t wear the watch above the wrist bone, the heart rate test can’t be serious.
Yes, I'm liking the Coros armband too. To me it's more comfortable than a chest strap and the readings are nearly as good. Thanks for watching 💪🏃
Garmin 255s with Garmin's 18mm nylon strap, sweet and as light as 10 feathers 😁
That sounds like a winning combo for accuracy on the wrist 🏃
Most people wear the watch too lose, resulting in inaccuracy. It has to be tight with zero movement
I believe the heart rate sensor in the Apple Watch 10 is better than any Garmin sensor or competitor (at least for me). But why would Garmin invest in upgrading its sensor or improving its algorithm if that could ultimately hurt sales of its chest straps? They won’t-just like they haven’t bothered to refine their app.
Also, I don’t understand why people get annoyed with Quantified’s videos. Sure, his results have limitations, but highlighting shortcomings benefits all consumers. Fanboyism and a Plato’s Cave mentality won’t help anyone.
It does seem like Apple is top of the heap right now. I believe the design of the Apple Watch does help the performance as well.
I'm not sure if you're referring to my comments on his videos as me being annoyed, but I'm a fan of his channel and what he does. This video was more about taking a step back to see what other limitations would contribute to the results he got and add some more perspective. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! 💪🏃
@@DaveDoesFitness Oh, I’m sorry! I wasn’t referring to your comments in the video. I find this subject really interesting, and your channel is great! I was talking more about things you see on the web or Reddit.
Yes, I agree with your reasoning. There are many factors that can affect the results, like wrist size, weight, temperature, etc. The trickiest ones to track are often intervals and strength training.
I think you hit it on the nail here. There’s too many factors to consider an Optic sensor good or bad. I have the F8 47 and the instinct 3 50mm. The instinct is MUCH bigger and thicker. If you put them side by side the whole orange ring and to plastic of the Instinct stick out above the f8. Yet, the Instinct feels closer to the wrist with a much comfortable fit. The difference? The bands. The integrated design makes a world of difference and makes the instinct three wear much smaller than the F8. That has an impact on accuracy
That and the lugs on the fénix 8 are placed much lower than the lugs on the instinct and even lower than the Fénix 7.
Glad I'm not crazy with that strap observation and someone else has the same thoughts. It just holds in place better and I like how you put it ... it "wears smaller" with that strap design. Thanks for watching!
I see no one mentions the galaxy watch 7
Note quantified scientist says he wears Garmin most of the time.
I like some of the sensor performance of the apple watches but I don’t think I can live with that dorky little square on my wrist, nor do I want another device that needs daily charging. The Garmin looks like an actual decent looking men’s watch.
Merci pour les petites astuces pour améliorer la précision, meme si en hiver pas évident de mettre la montre très en avant du poignet. De plus, obligée d'avoir un grand écran, car mauvaise vue, alors tant pis car j'ai un petit poignet. Mais je vais essayer votre méthode et voir si en serrant encore plus le bracelet je vois une différence sur ma Garmin 965
I have Garmin Epix Pro 47mm and Huawei GT5 Pro they both are having good heart rate sensors for my needs like running and strength training but I think Huawei is just a bit better with the heart rate especially in high heart rate zones. On other hand I like Garmin training feedback more and I am willing to sacrifice 1-2 heart beats :)
Yeah I think for most people being 100% exact doesn't have much value over being 95% correct. Thanks for watching and giving some feedback! 💪🏃
I always use nylon band. Those silicon bands are crap. They are heavy and uncomfortable. I'm a Huawei watch user and I'm very happy with it. Of course I swapped the original silicon band, for nylon one. There are easily available at Ali Express and they are quite cheap there.
I may have to check out a Huawei watch at some point. Lots of happy users in the comments. And yes I've progressed from 1st party bands -> Amazon -> Ali Express 😂
Garmin watches optical sensor have also been horrible for me. Fitbit and Apple were much more accurate. Garmin watches are just so much better overall though I just stick with garmin + a chest strap
That's definitely a great combo
I tested 2 different Garmin versus an amazfit and a mobvoi ticwatch. In all cases, the Garmin did better. I'm not saying the Garmin did perfect. But I'd give them like an 8 out of 10. Compared to a chest strap, I also tested some cheaper watches. And the results I got with those was comedic, and had nothing to do with reality. In general, I really don't mind the bigger Garmin.I don't have a huge wrist either, but i'm also not averse to cinching it down.
That's interesting. I watched your T Rex 3 review (great video btw!) so I'm assuming that's the Amazfit you're referencing. And recently QS had that exact watch testing better than any Garmin. I think that lends itself to the idea that other external factors can make a pretty big difference. Thanks for watching gray dog!
@DaveDoesFitness it was the Trex 3. Although rumor has it they have updated their firmware to make some of those initial dips go away. Appreciate you watching and feedback, BTW! I am going to be playing with a chest strap more this weekend on the bike, so maybe more data to follow.
Anyone having issues with step counter on fenix 8? Got my first ever garmin and I wake up to 200 steps, I walked downstairs this morning and it said I was on 686, like wtf? How do I fix this
Quantified scientist is also only using an n=1 sample size, which is frankly pretty poor science 😄
sup, I don't mind the fact that the readings might be a few percent less accurate then some other gizmo. its is more than enough actually. and much simpler then messing with an ekg band. the band won't be comfortable to crawl with. no go for combat fitness.
Yes sounds like a heartrate strap wouldn't be good for your use case and having rugged gear is more important. I did find that the averages over workouts were pretty much exactly the same so you can have confidence your heartrate tracking is still great. Thanks for watching! 💪🏃
@ 🤙
Problem is, all good Garmins are too chunky and too big to be a sport watch for me. The new Instinct 3 is 45mm minimum. My wrist is ~18cm, and I can't wear something more than 42mm in diameter. And having Instinct 2s, I see the size is not a real problem... When the chest strap shows 180 and you see 120 on your wrist, you want to give up on Garmin and never trust them.
I don't know if it's bad but it's definitely not better than the sensor on a lot of cheap alternatives to Garmin. Like my Redmi Watch 5 (99€) or the Huawei Fit 3 (140€).
Do you think that the sensors themselves perform step for step with a Garmin or are any of the other variables I cover in the video at play? Note: I have not tried either watch so I'm just curious of your experience. Thanks for watching! 💪🏃
@@DaveDoesFitnessI've often tested them directly against each other by wearing one on the left and one on the right. Huawei Fit 3 vs Garmin Fenix 7 Pro for example - GPS as well as heart rate was the same. Maybe 1 beat difference if at all. Same with heart rate of the Redmi Watch 5 (didn't test GPS yet) vs Garmin Instinct 2X but the Redmi had a bit of lag. But comparing the heart rate afterwards, they were the same.
I always use velcro or other elastic straps on the watches.
I also compared the Amazfit Cheetah Square to the Garmin Instinct 2X. The Cheetah sometimes seems to struggle in cold temperatures however. It's rather small. But when it works - heart rate was also pretty much the same.
The main differences I see are the apps and other stuff like HRV, VO2max, etc. For example - Zepp and Garmin Connect show the same VO2max for me but Huawei is a bit higher.
And customization is non existent on the Redmi Watch 5 but it does everything I need as a hobby runner who just runs for health reasons.
@@DaveDoesFitnessstrange - I thought I had written a long reply but it's gone (OK, it reappeared - not sure what's going on with my TH-cam).
1) I wear all watches on velcro straps to keep them snuggly on the wrist.
2) I used various Garmins - Fenix 7 Pro (47mm), 7X (which sat perfectly on my wrist because it's so big and I have a flat wrist - so for me the 7 Pro was more top heavy and moved more than the 7X).
I tested (by wearing one on the right and one on the left) the Fenix 7 Pro against Huawei Fit 3, GT3 and GT5 - barely any difference in heart rate (maybe 1 beat here or there).
Also tested Garmin Instinct 2X vs Redmi Watch 5, Amazfit Cheetah Square and Huawei watches with similar results apart from the fact that the Cheetah Square struggles when it's cold.
The Redmi Watch 5 was most surprising honestly because it's so cheap.
An excellent balanced review, Garmin optical HR sensor is just fine, I think Apple does it best...but as youve said theres limitations to any optical sensor, we cant expect a BMW to beat a lamborghi so why would people compare optical to ECG!!!
It's a lousy product. I always run with Polar band because the Fenix 8 is terrible on my wrist. As for most. Some are a bit more lucky though. But I think many only compare the average heart rate and thas says exactly nothing.
And tattoo impact very much
Yes I forgot to mention that, but very true. Thanks for watching! 💪🏃
je ne comprends pas ma garmin 965. Elle ne me détecte absolument aucunes données anaérobies, contrairement à Coros. Comme la FC, max 150 alors que polar m'affiche 196 au maximum. Essayé le brassard Coros, rien n'y change, mais je dois dire que meme serré a fond (pas pratique d'ailleurs le systeme), il bougeait quand meme. J'ai une mauvaise circulation du sang aux extrémités (syndrome de Raynaud), je ne pense pas que ce la joue. Aussi très réticente d'acheter un brassard Polar, peur d'un échec comme avec coros
hmm.....
Yep, what you said makes perfect sense.
If you don't use a tool correctly it's not going to give you the best results. Whether it's running sneakers for a runner or a high-tech bathing suit for an Olympic swimmer not having the best fit will give you poor results.
Getting great, accurate results means understanding the limitations of the technology you are using. One size doesn't fit all. 😄