What we are experiencing is a clash in epistemological paradigms. Any epistemological structure that is based upon concepts like “do no harm” and “orthodoxy/purity of thought” are more important than the actual truth is doomed to authoritarianism. The desire to correct past sins by creating an untouchable class of people who are given the power to decide what is offensive or not creates the Pedagogy of the Oppressed, particularly when they also practice the “Princess and the Pea” social system where the most sensitive and loud people are given the most social clout. Resiliency has been lost and the desire to never have their feelings hurt creates an oppressive and dysfunctional society.
Him showing up to simply comment on the fact that jason tondro is lying about Gary Gygax, which results in increased awareness of that issue is helping. In other words, He helped by increasing awareness of lies.
When wizards trashes the creators and people that wete fans throughout the history of D&D because they want to destroy everything in the past is wrong. Wizards sucks.
This whole "basic decency" rhetoric makes me nauseous. The amount of stuff that people claim to fall under "basic decency" and feel entitled to is completely unreasonable given humanity's track record. And if you are lucky enough to have people around you that do treat you in a way that could be fairly called "basic decency", do be grateful and show appreciation, because "basic decency" is as good as you're gonna get from crazy apes with a troubled past and anger issues.
Thanks Jim, a voice of sanity. Im just sick of the attacks, slanders etc. Does Musk help? Probably no... But Im glad someone with a megaphone as large as he has called it out.
There's a certain amount of social conditioning that comes from years of exposure to talking heads and soundbites, later micro blogging and video shorts, our attention span as a society is negligible and there is no room left in online discourse for subtlety or nuance. people are reduced to two dimensional caricatures and straw men, and folks internalise what conclusions that they come to so much that any attack on the argument is taken as an attack on the person, which with that tribal brain worm causes them to double down on their arguments. it leaves no room for subtlety or nuance, no room for actual discussion about things, and causes a "you are with us or against us" worldview which has caused some absolutely absurd positions. There are times that seem to come more and more frequent now where I think we just have a bunch of cults bouncing off each other.
Thanks for weighing in on this topic. I tend to agree with most of what you said, so it is nice to see a perceptive a little closer to my own position. Tribalism is definitely becoming a problem here. I've been involved in this discussion and it has been kind of hard to get people to understand where I am coming from on it (which may be a communication issue on my end but I suspect some of it is that emotions are so high). Elon entering the debate definitely seems to have turned it into a proxy discussion on the election for a lot of people. I didn't like the 'burn in hell' phrasing, but him being Elon doesn't make the critique itself wrong or outrageous. Even a mild defense got push back. I pretty much took the position that Heidi Gygax took which I thought didn't completely ignore things Gary might have said but put them into a context, didn't reduce him to those statements, and I defended a lot of his writing on the grounds that understanding where humor was the goal, where anger or frustration was shaping his reaction, it was important to weigh that in your analysis of his words (the Harlot table is an example that to me reads as humor for example---especially if you read all the entries). I find there is a lot of circular firing squad going on on this topic. I get that emotions are high so I try to be understanding when I engage people. It can be frustrating though when people turn your words into something you didn't mean or say.
Yes it can because unlike wizards who wants to sanitize and crutch the hobby , Elon would probably releaser white box through 3.5 into a creative commons situation.
@PostmortemVideo what's the worst he can do with it that he's done to Twitter ? Misprint a few words ? Hire people you aren't fans of their writing and approach to the hobby ? Unlike running a social media platform , wizards has its incompetence that would equal a musk reign imo and so I'm welcoming of it
@@PostmortemVideo from what I've observed it's been mostly voluntarily the left disengaging and leaving of their own accord like the recent fleeing to blue sky... Since I'm not a known figure like you I've had opportunity to look at left leaning figures in real time go "this site is full of chuds so I'm leaving and going to blue sky" and then talk about "oh all those chuds over there are melting down because we're leaving " , like I started with brand new account and followed artist I followed for years on X...and even then half the recommended post I've seen from accounts "similar to the pens I follow "since I don't follow a lot of people who post often are : "lol look how the magats are panicking "
@@justapasserby1984 so , this is where I'd point out Elon for all the negatives of him as a person does name competent people as the leads of the companies. like he doesn't personally control space x's day to day , he instead has a woman who has from all reports been a decent boss in charge of the Space X operations and that's why the rocket platforms and retrieval systems have gone as well as they have with currently more successful launches and landing under their belt than their nearest competitors in the past 4 years alone. On the other hand we may end up with a cyber truck of a product at first as a ttrpg. but even then the people who want a cyber truck still grabbed one , I know I've seen like 7 in the past month on the road even with the election and musk being very loud about his Pro trump stance. So he may put someone in charge of WotC (as he's talked about buying all of wotc/Hasbro not just D&D ), that may go "okay the price of the book is way too high if we Lower it by x amount well get y more sales most likely " & actually get us back to the the days of a 30 dollar 200 page DMG/PHB of third edition, or at least go back to what D&D beyond use to do where : you can buy the whole Book digitally or you can buy just the digital licence to use the subclasses from this book. One of the biggest pros of all this though is he may do what WotC has said they'd do but hasn't: open source the older editions and potentially their adventures & put their rules/settings into a creative commons with no ifs and or buts, the only change is that Elon & his team for that project will have their name right there along side the original creative team. I say this as that's what Elon has done with his other companies , he keeps the core proprietary stuff in house(like how they build the fuel cells and their development process ) but open sources the stuff he knows is benetifical to all (he's done this with the charging system, which is why a lot of electric cars have become more standardized in charge)
Thanks, but seriously, the real champion is Trump. Lots of worthless DC do nothings are going to have to get real jobs. Wonder if that will change their perspective on taxes
Alternatively, a lot of people are going to discover - to their detriment - that the US already has a very paltry state and what miserable taxes it does collect provide services and savings they haven't bothered to make themselves aware of.
@PostmortemVideo Nah, we all know the government does nothing of value. If it was that good our compliance would not be enforced at gunpoint. Personally I love paying for other peoples retirement benefits. People who have lived much better lives than me, with more opportunities and less taxation. The ones who hoard all the houses.
I think the mistake in the book intro was just getting too granular. Think about it. Who actually needs someone else to spell out exactly what will offend them? By spelling it out they put too fine a point on it and ended up poking people they hadn't intended to poke. I think most people who vaguely agree with this sort of criticism aren't actually hunting for people to tar and feather. And vague agreement is all most of this stuff gets from the vast majority of people as far as I can tell. For what it's worth, I think a better defense of Gary Gygax is to skip right past the "out of context" excuse. Of course they're out of context, they're on the internet now and they came from months long conversations via 'zines a couple decades before most people were on the internet. A more useful defense is to say he was trolling people who made (what he certainly seemed to think were) absurd claims about him. You don't have to ask people half the age of the zine he wrote his comment in to imagine a world they never knew that way, you can relate it to the human interaction parts they would understand.
@@matthewtopping because unlike a group in a forum or a small subsection Twitter/X or bluesky , now everyone is going to be talking about the fact one of the richest men in the world and the guy who's been pretty much at the incoming president's right hand is talking about D&D and ttrpgs . The fact Elon is talking about it is why this very video exist
Lots of snowflake energy in these comments. Gary Gygax was sexist. He publicly made sexist statements and this is obvious to all but the most fragile of pearl-clutchers. Does this mean he was a wholly bad person? No. Does it mean we should erase him from the history books? No. Hence why no-one is. What some commentators here seem to want though, is for this to be completely swept under the carpet because any criticism of their hero hurts their precious feelings
Nope, your fragility is showing in making things up about a dead man... for reasons best known wholly to yourself. That's what people object to most strongly, the lies and defamation of a dead man. Strongly suggest you look up those comments in their full context.
@@PostmortemVideoI'd ask where on a corporate level, not Elon's s posting but actually the Corporation as X, has done the opposite of wokescoldary? Because, seemingly they're very much for a balanced approach of the idea of free speech compared to the previous regime, it'd not prefect no but the issues I've got are minimal compared to the first 10 years I've been on the platform (been on it since 2009
Amplifying far-right voices, spreading conspiracy theories, engaging in censorship on behalf of various powers and governments. The same and worse as the previous regime, but in a context of having said he wouldn't.
What we are experiencing is a clash in epistemological paradigms. Any epistemological structure that is based upon concepts like “do no harm” and “orthodoxy/purity of thought” are more important than the actual truth is doomed to authoritarianism.
The desire to correct past sins by creating an untouchable class of people who are given the power to decide what is offensive or not creates the Pedagogy of the Oppressed, particularly when they also practice the “Princess and the Pea” social system where the most sensitive and loud people are given the most social clout.
Resiliency has been lost and the desire to never have their feelings hurt creates an oppressive and dysfunctional society.
Him showing up to simply comment on the fact that jason tondro is lying about Gary Gygax, which results in increased awareness of that issue is helping.
In other words, He helped by increasing awareness of lies.
Elon shed light on misbehavior. Sunlight is the best disinfectant. Tip of the hat to Elon.
When wizards trashes the creators and people that wete fans throughout the history of D&D because they want to destroy everything in the past is wrong. Wizards sucks.
This whole "basic decency" rhetoric makes me nauseous. The amount of stuff that people claim to fall under "basic decency" and feel entitled to is completely unreasonable given humanity's track record. And if you are lucky enough to have people around you that do treat you in a way that could be fairly called "basic decency", do be grateful and show appreciation, because "basic decency" is as good as you're gonna get from crazy apes with a troubled past and anger issues.
DND isn't helping DND
Thanks Jim, a voice of sanity. Im just sick of the attacks, slanders etc. Does Musk help? Probably no... But Im glad someone with a megaphone as large as he has called it out.
As we say in Mexico: "No me defiendas, compadre". Don't defend me, compadre, you're only making it worse.
As someone who Is really into the history and "making of" of his hobbies I found this Situation really depressing, but thanks for your words
Excellent video Jim! I rarely agree with your politics, but this is an A+ intellectual take on the whole situation.
There's a certain amount of social conditioning that comes from years of exposure to talking heads and soundbites, later micro blogging and video shorts, our attention span as a society is negligible and there is no room left in online discourse for subtlety or nuance. people are reduced to two dimensional caricatures and straw men, and folks internalise what conclusions that they come to so much that any attack on the argument is taken as an attack on the person, which with that tribal brain worm causes them to double down on their arguments. it leaves no room for subtlety or nuance, no room for actual discussion about things, and causes a "you are with us or against us" worldview which has caused some absolutely absurd positions.
There are times that seem to come more and more frequent now where I think we just have a bunch of cults bouncing off each other.
And I'm such a contrarian, I still insist on trying to find the nuance and understanding.
My thirst thought was “on which subject”, take your pick.
Re D&D - honestly tuning out all bellends on this
What? They told me Blue sky was as safe (and interesting) as an episode of the Teletubbies!
Thanks for weighing in on this topic. I tend to agree with most of what you said, so it is nice to see a perceptive a little closer to my own position. Tribalism is definitely becoming a problem here. I've been involved in this discussion and it has been kind of hard to get people to understand where I am coming from on it (which may be a communication issue on my end but I suspect some of it is that emotions are so high). Elon entering the debate definitely seems to have turned it into a proxy discussion on the election for a lot of people. I didn't like the 'burn in hell' phrasing, but him being Elon doesn't make the critique itself wrong or outrageous. Even a mild defense got push back. I pretty much took the position that Heidi Gygax took which I thought didn't completely ignore things Gary might have said but put them into a context, didn't reduce him to those statements, and I defended a lot of his writing on the grounds that understanding where humor was the goal, where anger or frustration was shaping his reaction, it was important to weigh that in your analysis of his words (the Harlot table is an example that to me reads as humor for example---especially if you read all the entries). I find there is a lot of circular firing squad going on on this topic. I get that emotions are high so I try to be understanding when I engage people. It can be frustrating though when people turn your words into something you didn't mean or say.
I mean: Can DnD be helped at this point?
Yes it can because unlike wizards who wants to sanitize and crutch the hobby , Elon would probably releaser white box through 3.5 into a creative commons situation.
That's a whole separate question, which it might be fun to discuss.
I hope he buys it
I would like to be able to say that, but given what's occurred with Twitter, not so sure.
@PostmortemVideo what's the worst he can do with it that he's done to Twitter ? Misprint a few words ? Hire people you aren't fans of their writing and approach to the hobby ? Unlike running a social media platform , wizards has its incompetence that would equal a musk reign imo and so I'm welcoming of it
Reverse the polarity on the political bs, but have it still be bs.
@@PostmortemVideo from what I've observed it's been mostly voluntarily the left disengaging and leaving of their own accord like the recent fleeing to blue sky... Since I'm not a known figure like you I've had opportunity to look at left leaning figures in real time go "this site is full of chuds so I'm leaving and going to blue sky" and then talk about "oh all those chuds over there are melting down because we're leaving " , like I started with brand new account and followed artist I followed for years on X...and even then half the recommended post I've seen from accounts "similar to the pens I follow "since I don't follow a lot of people who post often are : "lol look how the magats are panicking "
@@justapasserby1984 so , this is where I'd point out Elon for all the negatives of him as a person does name competent people as the leads of the companies. like he doesn't personally control space x's day to day , he instead has a woman who has from all reports been a decent boss in charge of the Space X operations and that's why the rocket platforms and retrieval systems have gone as well as they have with currently more successful launches and landing under their belt than their nearest competitors in the past 4 years alone. On the other hand we may end up with a cyber truck of a product at first as a ttrpg. but even then the people who want a cyber truck still grabbed one , I know I've seen like 7 in the past month on the road even with the election and musk being very loud about his Pro trump stance.
So he may put someone in charge of WotC (as he's talked about buying all of wotc/Hasbro not just D&D ), that may go "okay the price of the book is way too high if we Lower it by x amount well get y more sales most likely " & actually get us back to the the days of a 30 dollar 200 page DMG/PHB of third edition, or at least go back to what D&D beyond use to do where : you can buy the whole Book digitally or you can buy just the digital licence to use the subclasses from this book.
One of the biggest pros of all this though is he may do what WotC has said they'd do but hasn't: open source the older editions and potentially their adventures & put their rules/settings into a creative commons with no ifs and or buts, the only change is that Elon & his team for that project will have their name right there along side the original creative team. I say this as that's what Elon has done with his other companies , he keeps the core proprietary stuff in house(like how they build the fuel cells and their development process ) but open sources the stuff he knows is benetifical to all (he's done this with the charging system, which is why a lot of electric cars have become more standardized in charge)
Always appreciate your intelligent takes and calm articulate delivery.
Cool outfit as well.
I appreciate that!
I've said it once and I'll say it again, both Hasbro and Elon Musk can go to hell.
Nah. Just assbro. Elon saved the country
@chicksandwich That's a good one, champ
Thanks, but seriously, the real champion is Trump. Lots of worthless DC do nothings are going to have to get real jobs. Wonder if that will change their perspective on taxes
Alternatively, a lot of people are going to discover - to their detriment - that the US already has a very paltry state and what miserable taxes it does collect provide services and savings they haven't bothered to make themselves aware of.
@PostmortemVideo Nah, we all know the government does nothing of value. If it was that good our compliance would not be enforced at gunpoint. Personally I love paying for other peoples retirement benefits. People who have lived much better lives than me, with more opportunities and less taxation. The ones who hoard all the houses.
I think the mistake in the book intro was just getting too granular. Think about it. Who actually needs someone else to spell out exactly what will offend them? By spelling it out they put too fine a point on it and ended up poking people they hadn't intended to poke.
I think most people who vaguely agree with this sort of criticism aren't actually hunting for people to tar and feather. And vague agreement is all most of this stuff gets from the vast majority of people as far as I can tell.
For what it's worth, I think a better defense of Gary Gygax is to skip right past the "out of context" excuse. Of course they're out of context, they're on the internet now and they came from months long conversations via 'zines a couple decades before most people were on the internet. A more useful defense is to say he was trolling people who made (what he certainly seemed to think were) absurd claims about him. You don't have to ask people half the age of the zine he wrote his comment in to imagine a world they never knew that way, you can relate it to the human interaction
parts they would understand.
Looks like your guilty of WrongThink. Rember 'nothing outside the state'
I guess takes one to know one......
I'm unsure what this is responding to or addressing.
Thank heaven Elon spoke against the slander against OSR. It really helps, it really does.
What on earth gave you the impression that Elon Musk was trying to help?
He just wants attention.
@@matthewtopping because unlike a group in a forum or a small subsection Twitter/X or bluesky , now everyone is going to be talking about the fact one of the richest men in the world and the guy who's been pretty much at the incoming president's right hand is talking about D&D and ttrpgs . The fact Elon is talking about it is why this very video exist
Nothing, but many people seem to think it will help redress the balance.
Lots of snowflake energy in these comments.
Gary Gygax was sexist. He publicly made sexist statements and this is obvious to all but the most fragile of pearl-clutchers.
Does this mean he was a wholly bad person? No. Does it mean we should erase him from the history books? No. Hence why no-one is.
What some commentators here seem to want though, is for this to be completely swept under the carpet because any criticism of their hero hurts their precious feelings
Nope, your fragility is showing in making things up about a dead man... for reasons best known wholly to yourself. That's what people object to most strongly, the lies and defamation of a dead man. Strongly suggest you look up those comments in their full context.
Seeing how badly Twitter & Tesla is doing I'm not sure I want Doge Master wrecking D&D.
Yes because he'll ....*Looks at what could do* ....print a book with errors ?
The polar opposite of the wokescoldery would be just as bad.
@@PostmortemVideoI'd ask where on a corporate level, not Elon's s posting but actually the Corporation as X, has done the opposite of wokescoldary? Because, seemingly they're very much for a balanced approach of the idea of free speech compared to the previous regime, it'd not prefect no but the issues I've got are minimal compared to the first 10 years I've been on the platform (been on it since 2009
@@Ike_of_pyke He's starting an AI game studio. I'm not touching an RPG that's nothing but AI slop.
Amplifying far-right voices, spreading conspiracy theories, engaging in censorship on behalf of various powers and governments. The same and worse as the previous regime, but in a context of having said he wouldn't.
People talking about Elon talking about #DnD isn't helpful. If you want him to go away, don't talk about him. He's a troll, don't feed the trolls.
But there are discussions taking place around it which at least have the _potential_ to be helpful. Which is what I'm gently trying to steer here.
I feed him because he's fun to watch go and do stuff
Hard to not encounter trolls or prudes of any stripe talking on the Internet. Why should those parties own the topic?
@@beardyben7848 exactly , shutting up /shutting down talk about it just allows them to control the topic
You're wrong
Elon's intervention is very much needed
Dnd is dogshit rn
And this will just deepen the dogshitness.
you can't make something less shit, by adding more shit to it.