Right? As a disabled person I wouldn't feel very dignified having to drink plain tap water out of the mug because I can't afford fucking teabags after buying the bloody mug
@@ColossalRayI think the idea is that it's a gift piece. There are a lot of people making dignity mugs out there, and there are a lot of alternatives that are less... Dignified, I suppose. She can charge whatever she can sell her art for, is my opinion. It's like expensive eyeglasses. I don't really care what there are thousand pound frames out there, because I can get mine for £30 if I want. I know that disability aids can be quite expensive in general, but where the cheaper alternative exists I don't think it's fair to whine at people who are selling functional, nice objects at what they're worth (materials + labour + **branding**).
@VicvicW when your choices are a £100 mug or a toddlers sippy cup most adults will choose the £100 but they shouldn't have to. The mugs are not labour intensive or extremely expensive to make (its not like she's a potter making them by hand - she's uses moulds). Being disabled is expensive enough as it is - exploiting disabled people's limited choices by overpricing your goods is not providing dignity to your customers. Everyone should be free to live their lives with dignity - not just the rare disabled rich person. Disability benefits are a pittance and most of it goes towards the higher cost of living disabled people have (special dietary requirements, mobility aids etc). Contributing to that by pricing your goods for disabled people so high is just profiteering on misery. It's cynical.
@@ColossalRay I think my original reply was deleted. You can buy second hand ceramic dignity mugs for, definitely less than £10, and brand new ones for definitely less than £15. The existence of expensive disability aids is only a problem when no alternative exists. Wheelchairs and tube feeding setups are very expensive, for instance, and so discussions about how their price is inaccessible are worthy points of disability advocacy. Talking about how Gucci makes £500 glasses isn't, because you can get glasses for £30.
@VicvicW dignity mugs are by no means as widely available as cheap glasses, so thats by no means a fair comparison. Also, the target audience of designer glasses are people in work with wellpaying jobs, not disabled people, most of whom do not work (while many disabled people work, it's generally not the ones using dignity mugs as theyre for people with diminished motor control) It is MORALLY WRONG to overcharge for goods whose target audience is disabled people.
i’ve seen a few people talking about this situation and the conclusion i’ve come to is that- 1) the lady who bought the mug never called out the shop specifically and didn’t seem to be attempting to instigate any drama in the original tiktok 2) everyone is allowed to have their own opinion on the price of the mug (and the whole pricing of an item made for people with disabilities) but i do think that it’s up to her, as it would technically classify as an art piece so she can price whatever she thinks her art is worth. 3) the whole situation was way blown out of proportion, the creator of the mug should have just talked to someone irl about the situation and moved on, it never needed to actually become a whole situation
Nah the creator of the mug was trying to guilt trip the buyer by constantly saying "as a small business you should know" "cause as a small business" Art piece??? How do you spend hours and hours on basic glazing and basic elementary grade painting and classify that as art???
@@who__cares__ i’m not trying to defend the actions of the business owner bc she was definitely in the wrong as far as the situation goes. also everyone has a different definition of art, it’s personally not my cup of tea either but i still think she’s within her own right to price her work however she wants, nobody has to buy it, and if it’s that easy people can just make it for themselves for cheaper which is great for them
@@who__cares__ do you REALLY want to be the one to start arguing that bad or amateur art is disqualified as being art? is that the argument you WANT to be making? how do people just say shit like that and not immediately realize "oh this is tremendously anti-art of me"
i wondered why everyone taps on everything in videos until i got acrylic nails a year ago. now i tap on EVERYTHING. it is so fun. when you have long tappy nails it’s just fun to tap them in every day life
I appreciate this comment haha as someone who just taps on things inexplicably. So at least there are two people who do this in real life 😂 I just have regular nails with a little length, but damned if I don’t compulsively tap on every door as I pass through it. -I know the asmr tapping is different and for some people it must be… nice to listen to? (It can tend to be grating for me). Lol but fr im just here to tap on things bc it feels nice
@@Peyz1824 I think that might also be why I tap on things, honestly! But I think what Pinely in specific meant was the ardent tapping on objects that’s big in asmr videos, maybe? Like packaging or containers, usually in videos advertising or preparing things. Especially when it’s very hard tapping in the videos, it can be very startling to hear again and again. But I do get where you’re coming from, that’s why I scrolled down to find some fellow tappers
@@myprofilepictureisafish it's silly but also a little disappointing how wide spread this crap gets. 99% of the tiktok drama of the week could easily be solved by just talking to people in private or not posting at all. It's usually just misunderstandings or somewhat minor inconveniences but people get so invested and take sides n shit. As an outsider it's SO weird lol
That's why I like it. Everyday we're flooded with depressing large scale news so hearing about a small niche bit of drama like this is comforting personally.
I knew of the owner before all this and I really like her and her pottery videos. I personally wouldn’t spend that kind of money on ceramics but she’s constantly sold out so people like her stuff. I’m sure she gets comments about how expensive her stuff is all the time and she was probably tired of hearing that and lashed out unfairly at this creator. Honestly she just needs to apologize for making this a bigger thing than it is and we can all move on.
This whole situation is such a non-issue but I gotta say I'm surprised that there's people out there who seemingly don't ask or double check prices before buying something
Yeah like, sure, social anxiety is a thing, but not going "oh wait no sorry I can't pay $80 for a singular mug" is so wild to me. Like how much money do you have to have for your social anxiety to win out over your money anxiety in this situation??
Also many things at farmers markets or small stores have really tiny price tags, I just bought a ring that I thought was a steal for $8 (wasn’t expecting top quality just thought it was cute) and after I had chosen it and handed it over and said I’m gonna get this! and Venmo QR code was scanned, she said that’ll be $28 and I was like oh OOP (internally) and then paid. Bc I could technically afford it but still was cringing a little at spending that, and sometimes you come out of that appreciating the purchase and thinking it’s worth it (I really love the ring and it didn’t make my finger green which is A-Ok for me) and sometimes you have buyers anxiety like why tf did I do that? So anyways … it’s not always intentional lol but also she has the means and it’s not that big of a deal. Normal happenstance at art markets.
@@SpecialInterestShowsome people got it real bad, something like this happened to me before and I needed two intense therapy sessions to prepare for returning the item to the store, I was shaking during the whole time i was returning it l, I literally felt like I was being tortured Even now returning stuff is still very uncomfortable for me but at least it doesn't trigger panic attacks anymore I would never make a stupid tiktok about to to complain tho I understand that's a me problem lol
@@SpecialInterestShowhonestly, I think it's likely that she has enough money to outweigh the social anxiety for 80 bucks. 😅 Especially as an influencer going so where to spend money, if you have enough money, the bar for overcoming social anxiety gets way higher
There was a huge stink I saw in one crafters comment section debating if her hat was really handmade because she used a knitting loom. It was nuts. And as a crocheter, yeah fiber arts have SO much drama.
I buy ceramic mugs for my dad from craft fairs like once a yr as a bday or a Christmas present. Theyre not slip cast or hand painted like in the video, they’re hand thrown and probably dip glazed. But this usually costs around 20-30$ bc ceramics artists who are good at pottery can throw a lot of stuff in large quantities/batches. I’m all for paying artists their dues (I have an arts degree) but I know the hours that hand made stuff takes so I’m pretty picky when it comes to where I buy handmade stuff from!
I paid $25 for a 10 oz mug that was hand crafted and hand painted, granted it wasn't as detailed as the strawberries and I know handmade ceramics are time intensive but $80 USD is wild
You guys are the expert witnesses that I didn’t realize I desperately needed I wish this comment was closer to the top so I didn’t have to spend an extra twenty min in limbo making up my mind but I love the roller coaster rides of his videos anyway
There is a picture of the stall from the day, where all the strawberry mugs were on display behind the counter, out of reach. Might not have seen the handles until Shelby picked it up. Also might not have gotten told the prices until it was entered into the eftpos machine
Part of it is also that the original video is actually around 7 minutes long and the mug portion is brushed over and obviously not meant to spark any drama… also agree with a commenter in the TikTok video comment section that said that stressing that it’s a mug for those that are disabled while.. selling at a price that is not accessible is certainly something
i love the absurdity of “i had to buy the mug” and also of “😢 i asked whether you would like tissue paper…or a bit of extra padding… because i wanted to make sure the mug was safe 😢”
@@Ithinkyousuckrealbad rude as hell for no reason 😭 i have long nails too nd i love tapping things, but i'm not going to purposefully annoy others with it.
I'm equally annoyed by entitled preachy 'small business' people and people who point out how a cutesy specialty item is too expensive or 'overpriced' when they have the option to simply not buy it.
I feel that because these mugs are intended for disabled people (that's why there's 2 handles) it's more reasonable to critique the price point - especially since its not a highly labour intensive good. Disabled people usually aren't exactly rolling in cash because disability benefits aren't a lot to live on and they get cut for arbitrary reasons all the time. Her material and labour costs are quite low so making the goods so expensive just because its banking on exploiting the needs of disabled people is pretty grim. When the choice is forking out for one of these or drinking out of a baby's sippy cup a lot of adult disabled people will buy these and I think that's a damn shame.
A couple details I think are important: the mug wasn’t hand-thrown on a wheel, it was casted with a mold. That doesn’t discount the work that went into casting it, but Shelby (iirc) did NOT create the mold herself, and the mold wasn’t created with the intent to be disability-friendly. So yeah, I really don’t think that price was justified. All that aside, I have a problem with TikTok drama in general. Not to be a boomer, but… did we just forget that not everything has to be a public debate? This situation would have gone over so much better if both parties just said “damn that sucks”, messaged each other privately to sort out their grievances, and moved on. Handling this issue in a passive-aggressive TikTok stitch battle just makes both of them look whiny and immature.
i mean tbf sopha just did a haul for what she bought and mentioned that mug for less than a minute out of the whole video and was like damn crazy price and didnt even mention the person she got it from. the owner just felt attacked for no reason and started the whole thing over nothing when if she woudnt have made the video, almost no one would have known that it was her business
@@Oliviaandtrinai get periodic weakness and can absolutely work. There are also lower price point mugs for people who cant. Having more options is never a bad thing, even if some things are expensive. The bad part is when disabled people have no CHOICE but to shell out for stuff we cant afford. Disability is not a monolith and we all have incredibly different needs
I do have tp complain that the mug is so small. In my personal experience as a disabled person who can end up with a lot of weakness in my hands to the point of dropping stuff. Despite that, i also enjoy having a big cup so i dont have to go back for more of my drink and so on
anyone who works retail can tell you many customers are incapable of finding price tags, reading signs, etc. i've had countless customers see the price on the card reader and say "wait, how much is it?!" so i don't think she was lying about not knowing the price or that there were two handles, regardless of if it went how shelby said it did
And small business type places always have tiny tags or it’s not tagged at all. A lot of times I don’t buy things if it’s not clearly labeled bc I hate having to say something or haggle.
Mug Maker laid it on a bit too thick for my taste. She might as well have launched into a speech about how she has glass bones and paper skin and that’s why she has to charge so much money for a little cup that’s apparently made for disabled people. No need for all that. You got a annoying review from a customer. Happens to the best of us. Put the phone down, grab your best girlie, and have a venting/yap session over some two handed tea.
Yeah, people saying she was manipulative is weird to me. She was unprofessional, but like not an evil manipulative mastermind like some people seem to be claiming. Part of why I'm sorta terrified of tiktok tbh. They eat buzzwords for breakfast 💀 Definitely a bit icky and unprofessional but not a cartoon supervillain
@@Oliver-kw3dk i think passive agressivness raises red flags in people. Well it does to me. It immediately makes person who's speaking very unpleasant.
@@derpleyew interesting. It could explain why she was so eager to start packing the mug the moment she showed interest and why sopha felt bad enough to not say no
@@srushed yeah exactly. I had never heard of sophadopha before any of this, but apparently she’s a popular influencer who does haul videos. I had actually seen a few videos of Shelby’s before on Facebook but never realised it was her until yesterday lol. What I’ve read about this situation is the fact that sophadopha didn’t really say anything about the mug other than what’s in pinely’s video, she didn’t say it was made by Shelby and the video was online for a while before Shelby made hers meaning she obviously went back to see if she had a shoutout. The whole thing feels like it’s ego vs ego, and they should have just resolved it offline instead of this stupid drama that is a non issue.
I dont get why people are mad at the girl who bought the mug because 1) she didnt call out the business 2) she was just complaining about it being expensive - it doesn't matter if its fairly priced or not some people simply do not want to pay the price for handmade goods (coming from a crocheter) 3) she didnt really put any blame onto the business in the initial video. If anything, it was more of her blaming herself
She didn't have to call out the business directly. That particular design is associated with her business so when the TT showed the mug, people within the craft community knew/were able to figure out which business she was referring to.
I haven't gotten super far into the video yet, but as someone who took a lot of ceramics classes in university and had to write a few research papers on ceramic artists, I saw that it was very common for artists to price each piece $100+. Even designs that look "simple" sell for a lot.
@@sorormimm493I'm pretty sure they're hand-glazed lol. Also I'm not extremely knowledgeable about ceramics, but isn't using a mould, like... significantly less work than hand-sculpting something? I've certainly found that to be the case in my sculpting work. This lady didn't even make her moulds herself. This isn't discounting her talent and the work she puts in, but let's not pretend that using a mould you bought is more labour-intensive than hand-sculpting.
People were also mad cause she was HEAVILY hiding behind the "I'm a small business" thing, to try and make people feel more sorry for her. I'd say she priced the mug like she hand sculpted it, but even people who hand sculpt mugs generally price them lower than that.
@@glitt.rit's probably bc she makes a limited number of things per month. And with her follower count she pretty much has to price things higher. $80 is actually pretty average for a painted mug, wheel thrown or not
Tbh, Shelby seems more in the wrong to me. Soph gives off mean girl vibes, but Shelby gives off "victim" vibes (like almost crying in her video). Soph was complaining about regretting a purchase, she didn't call out the business, she just regretted a purchase. Shelby took this shit way too personally. She needs to get over it. Also, tiktok drama is so weird.
Agreed. Complaining about the price online after you willingly paid for it is annoying but Shelby was doing too much in her response. Like she was really laying it on thick lol “we were all sooooo happy to see you looking at the mugs 🥺” like girl was really going for her Oscar 😂
Shelby sounds like she’s never worked an actual job in her life. She just makes these kindergarten crafts and wants everyone to throw a pity party for some shit SHE brought attention to. I hate business owners like this.
@@MinaF99 idk about manipulative tbh. Like if someone made a video shitting on one of my crochet pieces I would SOB. She was unprofessional, but I wouldn't say manipulative. Also people who have been to the event say there's no way Soph COULDN'T have touched the mug because of the way the festival is set up
@@Oliver-kw3dk nobody was shitting on the mug. I don't think Soph said anything that could be construed as shitting on the mug. She said it was small, expensive, and she didn't realise it had two handles. I don't think saying it was like a sippy cup is offensive because it literally is like a sippy cup. Nothing she said was mean, just critical. Criticism isn't being mean. That's something you need to learn if you run a business selling handmade stuff. You're going to get criticism, and that's not a knock on you or even your product. It's just how you learn what works and what doesn't. Even satisfied customers can be critical. If you go into every sale believing you're going to get a five star review after, then business isn't for you. all of these "you"s are general yous, not aimed specifically at you who I'm replying to. it's at people who do business but can't handle anything remotely critical. there are a lot of reasons why I don't sell anything I make even though I'm a crafty person, and that's because I know I would struggle with this (amongst other things). you can't decide what happens to a product after you sell it, or what they're going to think about it. the quality can be great, but there can still be improvements, at least for that particular person.
i don't think she called it a sippy cup solely because of the double handles lol i think the outrageously small size has an equal amount to do with it😭
@@Joe90h I think most commercially available mugs are 320ml/11oz at a minimum. It is rare to see them much smaller than that. They exist, but most people would look at them and consider them really small.
I’m a professional ceramicist, and I *do* know how to price a handmade mug. This price is ridiculous, and I do not believe for a second that Shelby took the time, during a busy market, to talk to every customer about prices/etc. Not for a second do I buy that. These mugs are made from molds Shelby purchased, using slip she probably purchased, glazed with underglaze or majolica that she purchased, and fired on a pre-programmed kiln that she literally presses a couple of buttons to start. In her TH-cam video getting ready for the market, she says herself that others help her with glazing, so she can’t even claim that she does *that* on her own. However, on her website she claims that a certain mug takes *four hours* each for her to paint, and that all pieces are glazed by her. This woman is clearly not honest because there is absolutely no way that the mug I saw takes four hours per piece to glaze, and she says herself that at least one other person helps her glaze. The four hour claim is what makes me so sure she’s just flatly dishonest because it’s, for real, the most ridiculous statement I’ve ever seen/heard about creating ceramics. It is more likely that Shelby spends 15-30 minutes of labor on each mug. If she claims to spend more time than that on these super simple pieces that she doesn’t even make molds for, I don’t know what to say other than, “Suuuure, okay.” Because of these reasons, I think this incredibly overpriced mug is something Shelby is probably sensitive about, and she lied to try to justify the outrageous prices she is charging her customers. IMO, she knows she’s ripping people off, and she felt the need to defend “her” work (which, from my own viewpoint, again, as a professional ceramicist, is only 10% of her own work). So, that’s where I see the drama. Lol
Yeah as someone that crochets, I understand the price of a product doesn't add up to how much labor it took, I would *never* charge 80 USD for something because that's how you get no one to buy your shit
THANK YOU. Not specialized in ceramics or anything but I do a lot of crafts in my spare time and am looking into starting my own small buisness clothing store. I absolutely understand the pricing of small buisness being hiring than people expect but let's not pretend this is a regular pricing. At the end of the day she can price it how she wants if she thinks her handcrafted art is worth that much, I def think the first girl should have just not bought it if it's out of her budget. But I really don't appreciate the implication as well that not only is her pricing sort of standard, but that because it's a mug that accounts for special needs, it's gonna be on a higher price range. I have seen some mugs that are legit basically tiny paintings, and would be so worth that price, same ways some handpainted clothes could be. But there isn't even that much detail in what she's painting or anything. I so disagree with her pricing and I think she should have the self awareness it's not standard. There's not much wrong with just admitting "listen that's my price, I think it's worth it, and my clientele is satisfied with my products and what I sell so that's how I'm doing things, sorry not sorry, you shouldn't have bought it then".
Thank you!! I totally agree! My grandmother made ceramics and sold them all her life. I grew up around them and helped all the time. That tiny mug was WAY overpriced. And her trying to guilt the other girl by saying it’s for people with disabilities seems made up to garner sympathy and favor. I don’t believe it for a moment. Also her throwing in “as a small business owner” every other sentence was nauseating. She made it a big deal by making a video when the other girl hadn’t even name dropped her. All was just blown out of proportion. P.S. wishing you continued success and love for your art form 💕
it being overpriced is really not up for debate. She can price it at that amount because people will buy it for that amount. the girl in the video said her stand was pretty popular so if she's selling well, then it is properly priced. i do however think that if she wants to highlight its for people with disabilities, the pricing should reflect that.
Thank you for the rational take. The issue in this situation isn't the mug being "overpriced", and its disappointing to see artists devalue other artists' work because they personally wouldn't buy it.@@soloheroina
As someone who makes pottery on the side (And who follows Sophie on Instagram) 81 dollars for a mug that size is actually insane IMO and Sophie completely handled this situation wrong but people really don't understand how expensive pottery is. "she just pours it into molds." Molds can actually be very expensive depending on the size and detail level, anywhere from 10 to over 200 dollars (as well as the fact that Sophie seems to get most of her molds off gumtree meaning she's likely getting them from other small businesses) as well as paying for glazes, which will be over 10 dollars each and even more if you get food safe glaze and don't even get me started on clay prices.
This is the third video I've seen by someone I'm subscribed to that's not into pottery... As an Australian potter that's been to the finder's keepers market as a customer, it's way closer to the way that Shelby describes it with people picking things up. There's no way that Soph could have NOT noticed that it has two handles, unless she specifically made someone else pick it up for her, which would be weird. Shelby lives in Sydney, where rent even on the cheaper side is $400/week. Cost of living has gone up and I understand why it's priced that high even though i personally wouldn't have bought it. Slip casting things with a mold is NOT an easy process. Though it is what they do when they mass-produce something, they have a much larger accepted margin for error. Ten broken mugs in a mold is nothing to a big company, but even one to a single person is a big deal especially when they have to spend the money on paying for the electric of the kiln and expensive plaster, ESPECIALLY since Shelby works with porcelain. I went to highschool with a bunch of girls like Soph and yeah, they would lie to instigate drama and then act like the person they're talking shit about is totally hysterical.
Finally another potter in the comments 😭 everyone acting like the price of this mug is outrageous doesn’t understand just how time and energy consuming every step of clay is to work with
I don't know anything about pottery but I do know that the wrong consistency of slip can ruin a piece I think It's not like "easy mode". Also it was icky just the fact that she was complaining about spending her own money. Girl I wish I had that much money for anything. Shelby also hand glazes the mugs. I've done ceramics in art and oh my god glazing is a whole other skill
In a faraway alternate universe, Shelby Ceramics and Sophadopha have joined forces to discuss the intense discourse around Evil Pinely’s 82 investigator glasses…
@@PeeperSnail that's so weird to me because i have no problem with whispering in ASMR, but if someone whispers irl, my brain starts infinitely loading because i cannot process wtf they just said
Tbh i get they might be doing it for asmr but for me when things are tapped on or patted when their describing a material helped me get a better understanding on how sturdy, light and quality it is or if their even describing the material right
@@PeeperSnaildrives me absolutely crazy. I used to be a pen-clicker (I fiddle a lot 'cause of ADHD), but after realising how much tapping p*sses me off, I've kicked that habit.
i assure you this is nothing like my feed, not had i heard of this drama until pinely posted this. comments like these are like saying you hate music because you heard one taylor swift song. there are so many sides to it. but yeah, shitty company who runs it
@@irl.nephilim nah, it's more that I'm old and don't like tiktok's user interface. If the UI was like vine, I'd be on it, but I can't handle the forced stream.
Amateur ceramicist here, the price of the double handled mug is hugely overinflated. Sure, when you sell your wares most potters will factor in the value of the resources used, as well as a cost for the time spent making it, and there will be time and focus needed for each individual item even if it’s made using a slip cast mould. The kiln firing could possibly be a 3 stage process if she uses a wax resist for the strawberries if they’re painted as an underglaze after the first firing, the wax melts off and the mugs would need to be dipped in a clear glaze and then fired a final time. Firing costs a LOT of money, especially if you’re making large batches in a large kiln. They use vast amounts of electricity and and time is needed to let everything cool down enough to be removed without cracking, even a slightly warm mug placed on a wooden surface can split the glaze open as the heat dissipates unevenly, but room temperature air can be just as risky. Some potters do include the cooling time in their coats, as well as the cost of running the kiln each time. The process would take around a week in total for each mug (made in batches) from start to finish, and to get a consistent product like this also takes knowledge and special care. The cost of the market stall will be included too. So I can see how the ceramicist is taking issue with how her business is portrayed, I do think the cost is higher than it should be, but the passive aggressive tone and the way she’s clearly really unhappy about the criticism is wild. My biggest issue is the fact she kind of sneeringly brings up how the mug is for differently abled people as a rebuttal for the “sippy cup” comment, because to charge such a massive excess for a customer base that need adapted products such as this is gross. There’s no way to justify such a huge premium if you’re making products that are targeted at one demographic and likely will cost way way more than a similar mug with just one handle. I’m fascinated by TikTok dramas like this though. Edited to add… I checked out the website for her pottery and now being more conscious of her ceramics are a whole I need to say the following: A- they’re all absolutely amazing (i want the mushroom butter dish it’s so cute) B- the two handled mugs are cheaper than the single handled mugs C- they are all hand poured & finished before 1st firing, hand painted/glazed before 2nd firing, and she sometimes sands the glazed piece if they need any last touches D - my estimates for the time it takes to make a piece fell short of a week given the process and care she takes to perfect every piece in each batch E- the two handled mugs are not listed, tagged, or described as being “dignity mugs” and she makes no indication that these have been created with disabled customers in mind. Whether or not that’s done as part of the dignity aspect I can’t know, but it did strike me as odd given how she included it at the end of her video. Edited AGAIN to add: She didn’t even make these moulds or buy the kiln she uses, her website has a TikTok of her getting the entire contents of a pottery studio, including hundreds of moulds, and a kiln..for FREE. Like she kitted out the entire studio without it costing her anything at all, having the moulds all already made is a huge huge help to her not having to make plaster slip moulds herself (I’ve made slip moulds myself, and while it’s tedious it’s not hugely time consuming, but there’s no margin for error). Regardless of this it is still labour intensive and time consuming to produce batches of any ceramics to a high standard, especially when it is the business that is a sole form of income.
Hi, I'm disabled, you're allowed to call people disabled, you don't need to say "differently abled". I don't like it because it just becomes a euphemism for saying someone is disabled, without actually acknowledging what that means. I'm not "differently abled", I am disabled, I use a wheelchair. I'm disabled in the ways some people aren't (like walking), but I don't have extra different abilities like that phrase implies. I have the same amount of "abilities", but some of them aren't available to me, not "different". Being disabled means I can't get into shops sometimes because there isn't a ramp, because the inside is too small, because there isn't a lift. It's having chronic pain and chronic fatigue. It's not a smoothed over euphemism treadmill of "differently abled" "person with a disability" whatever. None of those words get me the ramp, none of those words recognise that it is hard and messy and difficult being disabled and that it's worthy of more recognition than glazing over what being disabled is like in favour of more "kinder", "politically correct", "polite" language. I'm not trying to be mean to you, it's just that phrase rubs me up the wrong way. This is your permission to call people disabled and be blunt about what it means. I'm not angry at you, I'm not angry about being disabled. I love your comment and I agree with it. But please don't gloss over being disabled because you think it's not woke or pc. It doesn't matter if it is or isn't, but I want to make sure people understand that words don't help get ramps and lifts, but they do help disguise the reality of what people go through. (the word "unhoused" gets me the same, like why are we trying to gloss over homelessness? we have a word for it, it's not offensive. it just makes people uncomfortable so now we have to use a new word if we want to look cool and liberal even though there are still homeless people, who are actual people struggling. if it makes people uncomfortable, good. think about the words and the issues, don't skirt around them.)
One more thing to add on, they’re in Australia, where electricity is through the roof in costs rn. Also, it was 120 Australian dollars, which is about 80 USD. Which is not super unusual for what I see at holiday markets around me for thrown mugs. I think the detailed glazing offsets the slip casting in terms of value, but I also would never buy this mug. Even though I understand and think the price is justified. I’m just poor. 😂 But the buyer is also a bit at fault. Who buys something without knowing the price and then goes through with it?? You have that shock moment and then you go, “I’m so sorry, actually I can’t swing this” or whatever. But the only real issue here is why are we even doing this? Guys. Not everything needs to go online😭 especially to the woman whose business it is- let’s have some professionalism. Don’t respond. And if you’re going to, might as well fully commit.
Disabled person here, don't correct her to "differently abled". The vast majority of disabled people don't use that term, and a lot of us actively dislike it. Also, if you do not understand what people who use these mugs actually want, don't try to imagine it. Many of them have pointed out that it's small on purpose because that makes it lighter. Stay in your lane, boost the voices of people who are actually effected.
@@rVnsunshine hey thanks for taking the time to explain that so eloquently, I hadn’t remembered her phrasing when I was writing my comment and I should have gone back to that segment to check exactly what she had said. I’m sorry for the poor choice of wording and totally get why it’s not appropriate or well liked by disabled people. I’m a disabled person myself, however I’m not physically disabled so I’m not part of the target market for adapted or specialist products like the mugs. But I really do appreciate the correction and especially as you put so much thought into explaining it to me.
@@theMoporter thanks, I am disabled myself but my disabilities are mental/neurological rather than physical, so the mug is not something I am the target demographic for, I haven’t intended for it come across like I’m imagining what people want or need. My phrasing was off the back of her referring to them as “falling under the ‘dignity mug’ category for people with different needs and different disabilities” and I should have gone back to check exactly what she said before inducing the term”differently abled” in my original comment. The mugs having two handles and a lighter weight make a lot of sense in that respect, as you pointed out. But it seems odd to me that when I had a look at her online shop I couldn’t see any mention of the fact they’re “dignity mugs”, not in the item description, not in her categorising, and there wasn’t anything in her site whatsoever that would make it clear that she even makes adapted items for disabled people. It seems like she added that on at the end of her video to criticise how the mug was referred to as a “sippy cup”, even the way she’s thanking her for coming to the market and including all of the other stall holders as being so excited that she came was obvious that she wanted to make an emotionally impactful statement about her small business. She uses quite a passive aggressive manner of talking but when it’s so clearly personal to her it makes sense. I did add some extra bits to the end of my original comment after looking at her website, and the 2 handled mug is cheaper than the mugs with 1 handle, but converting the cost to pounds (I’m British) it’s almost £70 for one of the strawberry mugs. That is *really* expensive even if it’s about $10AUD cheaper than the others. So I know she isn’t charging a premium for the adaptation, she does charge less for them but it’s still at a cost I think is higher than it needs to be. Sorry for a such a long response, i hope I’ve explained my thoughts a bit more clearly now!
I have a vague idea of the who the seller is? The handful of times I open the app each month, I’m normally on the pottery side of tiktok because that’s a passion of mine and I like to see other people’s stuff. I don’t feel comfortable trying to claim truth to either story, but I do think the mug price is pretty fair. Granted, for a smooth shape like that, personally maybe $75 USD (i don’t know the conversion to Australian)? It is a mold, but even that can be difficult. I think the maker uses primarily vintage molds, which can be very difficult. They can degrade pretty easily, sometimes they don’t set properly, that’s not even getting into the cost to get the molds, get the clay, PLUS the kiln to fire it, PLUS glaze and all of the hours going into a piece. Overall, no judgement on the drama itself but I believe the mug is fairly priced.
ultimately i just don't think this was a complaint to go on a public platform. something you talk to your friends over but i can't believe we're starting drama over "i bought a mug that i only saw from one angle without knowing the price"
Shelby (the maker) responding to a 6 week old that doesn't mention her business by name is pretty unprofessional to me. Her feelings may have been hurt, but reviews (like the one Sopha made) are for other potential customers and not the business owner. The more professional thing would have been to message Sopha privately to try and work out something, or simply acknowledge that not everyone is gonna have a great experience with your business and move on.
@@ohh771 as said in the video, it's literally in her profile picture. Both Shelby and Soph are large creators, Shelby was the biggest business at the event and everyone was expecting Soph to attend and paid close attention to her opinions on the things she bought. Everyone knew immediately who she was talking about.
This is kinda like the discussions in the book community about authors responding to reviews of their books. Who are reviews for? Should creators be involved in reviewer’s spaces? The internet makes everyone accessible to everyone else so it’s new territory to navigate.
like yeah the shop owner can sell her art for whatever amount she wants but there was no reason for her to create that victim like, sad background music, support small businesses bs because she literally didn't call out the business name at all? or critique the shop? she literally just admitted she was too embarrassed to say it was too expensive and bought it anyway lol.
I actually follow the woman who made that mug a little on youtube. I like the designs and stuff and how she styles her pottery. I bet the set was advertised on one of her tiktoks or youtube shorts so that's why she says it in such a familiar way because her followers would know, but not someone who just walked into an art market. That being said this whole situation is such a nothing burger and both people could have just not made either videos. But I get as an artist, it's hard to justify any price, but especially one that helps you continue doing said art for a living, so that's probably why the Shelby was so defensive. Especially since we live in a time that people will just say, "oh just buy a dollar mug from the dollar store, why is it so expensive?" when these are more artisan pieces rather than mass made, machine dip glazed mugs.
Soph, the first girl, was doing a haul. The mug was just one minute of a seven minute video where she talked about other items she was gifting. Customers should be allowed to criticize the products or services that they pay for, it’s like an online review
@@dotcom3015 This this this! Add onto the fact Soph never said Shelby's name or shop name. I think Shelby acted super entitled with this whole situation and this is coming from someone who used to really like her videos.
Stop defending that pitiful business “owner”. Stop. Consumers are allowed to say whatever tf they want. Also, yes, her prices are legitimately outrageous. 110% inexcusable
ive seen this sentiment again and again over the years but if youre a small business, you cant be too sensitive about what you release out into the world because once a product is made to the public, it is detached from you and it is its own thing. it may be personal and sentimental to you but once there is an audience, you cannot control how they react, only how you yourself does. its really really hard to do and you have to be brave about it. theres a lot of love out there and theres a lot of opinions too
I've made a cup before and it takes time, glazing and design etc. is relatively complex, although once you've done a college (not university but college like a UK college course idk what you call them in the US) you could do that design. Adding a second handle would take so little time and material that it is more of a fun addition than something that would add a huge amount to the price. $81 is expensive.
It’s not all that expensive when you factor in paying for: Clay A space to make the items Running your own kiln Glaze The price of the stall in the market The packaging The advertising items (business cards etc) Her time The fuel to get to the market. The cost of living spiralling out of control. Like, it all adds up. And ceramics have a huge margin for failure through cracking or exploding in the kiln etc and she’s probably eating those failure costs. There’s a huge amount of artists who underprice themselves and don’t make a living.
@@SallyBerry9 it all adds up to something in the region of about 10 - 30 (and that top end is very charitable to your position) per mug for someone who is selling items at the rate you would at a market stall.
@@SallyBerry9 that would be making 300 mugs with a $3,000 furnace (which would last practically unlimited mugs a single person could make)... I'm not exactly sure how you are adding up these costs to get even close to 80 per mug, unless you payed yourself 40 dollars an hour in labour.
@@Alex-cw3rz I dunno how to say this but: paying for the kiln doesn’t mean you don’t continue paying for the (huge amount of) electricity it takes up. You also have to continuously buy clay, glaze, pay rent, pay bills, run your website (in fact, she might pay someone to do her website if she’s too busy, so that’s more money), get packaging (and since her business is popular, she’s using higher end, customised things), etc etc.
My biggest question is why something meant for disabled folk is being sold for over a hundred dollars Like don’t get me wrong, I understand the value of art/crafts as someone who does illustration commissions, but if your product is aimed at a group of people that, on average, barely have enough income and for whom options that cater to their disabilities are rare and pricy, why price it like that? Or more specifically, why make such a big deal out of how you’re supposedly catering to them?
Yeah that legit pissed me off. Like if she meant to say it's a more complicated mug and the price reflects that sure. But she really said it like she's put a "disability tax" or like that's normal to do lmao.
YEP I thought that too. I'm mentally disabled and I get ssi from the US gov, and I'll willingly share as a 19 yr old I only get $650 a month. Not including food stamps, that is a savior 🙌. I get some make less some make more depending on circumstance. But did you know legally if you are disabled there is a cap on how much money you can have? I forget the number but it's ridiculously low, to where emergency funds is not possible. I think it's around $2000 dollars. So we don't have much. there are PLENTY durable and cheaper alternatives.. she said that to garner sympathy like previous commenter said and I can see thru it.
It also imo (as someone who isn't disabled so probably not smth to take that into account sorry) doesn't seem like size wise it would be much help to anyone who was actually disables except maybe a kid but even then you wouldnt hand a kid who might have a hard time holding smth a 120 dollar cup. Like its so small in the buyer's hands!
She bought it thinking it had one handle, but with it having two, she's not sure what to do with it. She was planning on giving it as a gift from the beginning, but doesn't know who to give it to now. That's all.
the $125 tiktok mug. the thumbnail also didnt have the bars over the eyes saying who the seller and buyer was. really, genuinely nice changes for a guy named evil pinely. he did send a demon to my house /gen but other than that evil pinely is pretty cool@@gargles5270
Ive heard this story before and ive had time to ruminate on it and the thing that bothers me the most is shelby being like "ugh how dare you this is for disabled people" the 120$ mug is for disabled people who usually dont have very much money due to their disabilities lmao okay girl! Ive seen others compare her prices to other hand made mugs and hers honestly seems a bit high even for hand made. Also Im not trying to say disabled people cant buy themselves nice things or they cant be rich but the majority cant or arent. it just felt weird like shelby was trying to throw it in our faces how inclusive her mug is and how dare the other girl not immediately understand. And maybe if shelby actually explained everything in detail to her customers like she said she did the og girl would have known that! Idk just weird, and it sounds like i really dislike shelby, i dont, i actually followed her on Instagram before this and still am. I like her content and she genuinely seems nice i think she just misremembered this interaction and maybe should have said nothing and kept it pushing lol
I feel like I would have way more sympathy for the customer if her first video was mainly, "I'm so socially anxious I can't say no to buying a mug I think is overpriced and I know I don't have a use for" Her initial video was definitely way more judgy than I think she intended and saying that she never implied that the mug was overpriced is such a lie when she was talking about how small it was. This honestly just feels like another internet drama caused by someone posting something without realising that the person they're talking about will almost definitely see it and get upset
It would be really funny if they both were confused and it turned out they didn't actually know each other and the described interaction was with totally different people.
i think a couple details that were cut here are important. soph uploaded a 7 minute haul video last december where, somewhere in the middle, she talks about the mug. so over a month later, shelby somehow gets word of it. something else that was partially left out was shelby talking about how excited they all were for a tiktok celebrity to have come to their event, hoping she'd make videos about it. it seems to me that shelby never saw soph make any videos about the event, so she went back on her page and LOOKED THROUGH THEM to see if she ever mentioned them, and got butthurt when it was a throwaway comment about how expensive it was, so she responds and puts words in her mouth and lies about the transaction. VERY weird situation. i've seen her on my feed in the past and enjoyed her energy, but this response was so bad it's soured my opinion of her
idk if I were a small business owner-where reputation can quite literally make or break you-and I come online to see someone (who I presumably know and was excited to sell to??) complaining about my prices and misrepresenting my products I’d be pretty pissed off lmao. like the buyer was probably just venting her buyers remorse (been there) but doing so on a public platform invites criticism/rebuttal. was the price kinda crazy? sure, but at the end of the day YOU tapped your card knowing how much it cost
I just have to say as a person with ADHD (aka cool guy syndrome) I have to say I really appreciate the small changes throughout the video like the sunglasses bc it keeps me so much more engaged (not that it’s hard to stay engaged with your videos to begin with but ya know it’s just like the cherry on top)
I think that the artist is remembering a real interaction she had with someone ELSE who came to her store, and probably shouldn’t have made her video, but the price of the mug is fine. Handmade art is always expensive and you have to make an income somehow. To me it doesn’t seem like soph had bad intentions either but she did make some offhand comments about it looking like a sippy cup etc which might have hurt the artist and caused an outsized reaction.
As we get older, sometimes our bodies kind of rebel in unexpected ways. Loss of feeling in hands is one of them. So that double handle does help a little bit with that one. I only know this from my diabetic grandmother (who passed away in 1991). All her cups and items had little handles like that. She even had plates with little handles that my sister made for our grandmother in pottery class in HS.
Mug creator is on a weird entitlement power trip Hours and hours on pouring molds and basic glazing with elementary grade painting? On top of guilt tripping with the whole "small buiness" bs is just groooossssssss
As someone with severe misophonia, i 100% agree with the asmr thing they said at the beginning! i know it was a small thing said in the video but i just wanted to like chime in because asmr online is getting harder to avoid and is a big stressor for people like me (plenty of resources about what misophonia is online but its basically an EXTREME sensitivity and aversion to sounds, most commonly eating sounds and repetitive sounds like crunching, pen clicking, breathing sounds etc but like ask google for a better answer 😭)
ALSO I KNOW ITS A SMALL GROUP AFFECTED AND I CANT EXPECT ACCOMMODATIONS FROM EVERYONE FOR ONE NICHE THING I JUST WANTED TO LIKE SHARE AND MAYBE MAKE PEOPLE MORE AWARE AND STUFF ❤️
It's possible that the customer remembered a different vendor and it's possible the seller remembered a different customer interaction. I don't think either of them is lying but at least one of them is definitely confused about what happened during the purchase. But yeah, this could have easily been settled privately in DMs.
I dont agree with the business owner but... I admittedly dont have a ton of sympathy for someone who can "oopsies didnt realize the price uwu guess I will spend EIGHTY TWO DOLLARS!!?!" anyone who has that kind of money to just throw around bc of an awkward situation is,, insane. I need to budget my grocery store trips because often even $17 is an amount I cannot afford. I don't agree with either but her saying "i didnt say anything bad" while calling a mug with two handles a sippy cup. When I saw it, I immediately recognized it as a disability independence mug. Small to be lighter, two handles for stability. That was icky. I agree that this was a misunderstanding.
I've seen that strawberry design on Plumbella's walls. So either one took from the other or they both took from the same source. I hope P took hers and not the other possibilities because selling a design that isn't yours is pretty fucked.
I sell art and just to mess with people at vendor shows I'll leave art staged in such a way its inconvenient and easy to knock over. It's funny when a tap knocks over a piece of art to the ground. That sound alone of merchandise hitting ground gets me everytime. Which is a good thing since I don't want anyone thinking they did anything wrong when it's just a prank. FYI my art is wood I reset the trap with the same bait. Can't do that with a mug. The main thing with making art price wise is your hourly rate. It's hard to pull $30 plus an hour, so the price is probably fair for what it is.
I'll be honest, the original poster pissed me off, they didn't need to buy it nor did they need to conplain about buying it. I'd be devastated if someone made a video like that about a handmade object I made.
Sophie probably should not have bought the mug. However, she has a right to complain online about the size of the mug and the price it was sold for. Why did the mug creator step out of the shadows just to cause drama? If it's a mug for disabled people, why is it so expensive and why is it so small??? She really said I made this ultra expensive mug that's so small it's made for children, but I am gonna stir up drama with this person who never mentioned me so people feel bad for me because I'm a small business. I also have friends who are artists with small businesses, they would never go to this length of posting a video to guilt trip someone that purchased one of their items. Let's assume the mug actually took a lot of work even though there's people in the comments that know it's not as labor intensive as she suggests, what is the most any reasonable person would pay for a handmade mug? Idk, prolly like $50???? How does it make sense to overcharge for something supposedly made for disabled folks? We don't accept that when it comes to corporations, why would we accept that from small businesses??? Woe is me I'm just a poor small business owner, no one knows how hard it is for me to deal with customers that have perfectly reasonable complaints. People like this are so emotionally manipulative, they think because they are petite burgeoise that everyone should be on their side.
Yeah as somebody familiar with ceramics and clay, she uses pre bought molds to make her stuff and it's honestly obscene to charge as much as she does, she should have just left it alone and not identified herself because then at least you could kid yourself into thinking she actually used a pottery wheel or something which is MUCH harder and takes A LOT more skill than what she does imo, at least if it was made that way you could argue the years of skill it takes are what leads to the high price. You're totally right though about it being unfair for her to be charging that much for a mug supposedly meant for disabled people, it's fucked up.
@theMoporter Too expensive is a reasonable opinion to have even if you don't need it. I don't need an epipen, I don't have major allergies that could kill me like that, to say i can't criticize the price of epipens because I don't need them is crazy because you're putting ableism and advocating for people with disabilities in the same box. This kind of black and white thinking seems righteous until you consider the actual impacts on people. If you aren't advocating for poor disabled people, you aren't doing a good job at advocating for disabled people at all. Disabled people that happen to be rich do not need the kind of support that the majority of disabled people need because guess what, it's super expensive to have a chronic disability and that is one of the main hardships of being disabled
@@CharlieSimmer27I think it's like 80$ converted to USD from Australian dollars still pretty expensive, I don't know how often her stuff gets damaged in the kiln, the price of the clay, molds, kiln time if she rents or bought one, etc.
@@kerri6011 i know stuff tends to be more expensive in australia because of importing, but if she’s trying to get rich quick by selling mugs i think she’s in the wrong business lol. ps in my original comment i was basically averaging between the usa conversion and the original aus price :)
@pluutonius then why was she saying it was more expensive because it's for someone with a disability. She never should have made that video, all of this could have been avoided
I think she should have simply said “actually never mind sorry I didn’t notice the price” regardless of how things actually went. Idk if the price actually matters if she wasn’t being forced to buy it anyways? Girl just say no. (I have social anxiety too but if I did this I wouldn’t have complained on TikTok about it because I’d be so embarrassed) This feels like such a non issue it’s crazy
I have no social anxiety when it comes to money if they have some shit to say or give a sour look or whatever from me deciding not to buy something that just means I most likely made the right choice. people with good product and reasonable prices don’t do shit like that which is clearly trying to pressure a sale into happening or leave the customer uninformed. Btw I see a lot of people saying this is a non issue and in this particular case I’d largely agree but this shit happens rampantly at art markets and other similar events. always ask for a price before you even take out a card or cash some of these people are not as kind as they seem. It’s legit it’s the same shit they do in New York with the fake monks, costumed panhandlers and “musicians”.
Also I have a bit of experience in pottery and it might’ve just been the room or the material her nails were made of but that ceramic material did not sound up to snuff when she was tapping it it sounded very delicate and brittle but past that there is not world where that small and basic of a piece is worth over 80 usd I thought it was pretty cute as well and honestly the dual handle thing is kinda neat but that thing is at max 20-35 usd based on your location and the fact that it’s a disabled folks product doesn’t make this more sympathetic if anything it’s worst like oh thanks for not trying to rip off everyone just the disabled population
My problem is that it's an accsesability item but it's being sold and an increadibly inaccessible price and is incredibly small. As someone who has to use those types of cups and mugs due to moter issues it doesn't do much good if i constantly have to ask people to refill it for me because it's empty in less then 2 sips
I cannot ever relate to someone who doesn't check the price before buying something. You deserve to be overcharged if you bave enough money to just... Not even care to ask for the price.
i hate the argument that her mugs aren’t ’really accessible’ because of the price. i could go online and order dirt cheap plastic cups, single or double handed, if i needed to. it’s not like she’s the only person in the world making 2 handed cups. but i like cool looking, decorated, and handmade items too, as many people do! i, and most people, fully accept the fact it’s more expensive because of the extra time and effort put into the items. its a handmade artisan craft market, obviously the prices will be high, its 100% her fault for not checking prices (and how do you just ‘not notice’ how many handles the mug IN YOUR HAND has). and people who are disabled deserve to have the option of nice products too, not just ‘useful’. in recent years more of my family has struggled with illness and mobility and early on it becomes extremely clear that all of their everyday items become so sterile looking, their belongings suddenly become a reflection of their medical state, all hard white plastic and metal and plain and strictly Useful, it’s really a bummer when i remember how they decorated before. it’s nice to see someone who keeps accessibly and visual design in mind and insists the two don’t have to be so strictly separated.
Frankly, I'm still reeling over someone just admitting they didn't even glance at an item before going to buy it and then complaining about it online. It can be entirely reasonable to mistakenly buy something (if a bit too much "rich people problems" for my taste lmao. simply cannot imagine being that well off to not even try to check prices before buying!) but it's just one of those fuck ups that nobody else has to know about y'know? Not everything needs to be uploaded on the internet. While the initial tiktok doesn't seem aggressive at all and I think a lot of this is a game of telephone gone wrong, there was no way this wasn't going to start some stupid drama! That's simply not how the internet works! Someone on twitter talked about making food for her neighbors once and people were fighting for WEEKS! Someone else said they enjoyed sitting in the garden with their partner and the twitter basically bullied them off the internet! Everything turns into a fight, so you really gotta be careful what you complain about. Some big name influencer complaining, however gently, about the price and shape of a mug she bought by mistake was 10000% going to be the drama of the week!
@@rachelnotluf4585same I'd just simply ask what the price is, then decide after if I can afford it and or still want it for whatever price that's been said
This would have been solved had she not bought it. Why would you buy something you think is expensive just to complain about how you not only don't need it but that it was also expensive. Vendors can price their items whatever they want, it's up to you as the consumer to decide whether or not you're willing to pay those exorbitant prices. Regardless, the vendor took it way too personal despite not being mentioned as the vendor. It seems to me like neither of them know how to be adults 🤷
Honestly, I think people 100% could have known it was Shelbys mug. Two handles, small, really expensive, and it was a popular shop. It would be really obvious to anyone who went there or to anyone who's seen her shop. The mug is overpriced, though. It was the most expensive mug there and small compared to the others. However she can price it however she wants imo. The original girl fully could've just been like "Oh sorry I didn't realize the price." And I doubt Shelby would've been mad at her
Shelby has a pretty large following. She probably only made the response because someone recognized her mug and shared it with her. And shelby has gone through and shown her set up of her stall at the market, the response (as they had to create a queue for her since so many people came to the market specifically to see her stall) and the aftermath. Perhaps the other person wasn't paying attention to the pricing, and I really understand that people do not know why hand made items are so expensive (it isn't just the time and materials that go into it, but the cost of running a small business, all the failures as well as successes, and if they have employees working for them, it can be expensive. Big companies have machines, own the supply chains, and can make millions by selling things cheap because they sell so many. Supply and demand.) Hopefully it was just a misunderstanding.
Me the entire time the second lady's video was playing: "Wow this seems disingenuous as fuck and her vibes are atrocious." PInely: "She seems so genuine." Bruh
I don’t think the original girl was trying to start drama, but I think she was just venting. But like … I really don’t think we should be venting about regular inconveniences all over social media. Like, girl. Get some fucking friends.
On her website it says it takes her 4hrs to make these mugs. I’m pretty sure the glaze she uses is not opaque so she has to layer it. I can imagine that cup taking 30 mins to paint the first time and 15 to 20 each time after that. It’s actually so sad that people don’t think artists deserve minimum wage. Minimum wage in Aus $23.23 an hour. Electricity is one of the most expensive in the world. If people are willing to pay that price, let artists sell it for that price. Her mugs sell out, she has the demand. Also, this mug is the same price if not cheaper than her other mugs. If you don’t like it or can’t afford it, don’t buy it. It’s a luxury item, not a necessity.
![ประสบการณ์ จ้าง Developer ที่ผมจะไม่มีวันลืม [ภาค1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bzivN4KDg-k/mqdefault.jpg)
i think we should keep starting random online discourse about everyday objects actually
it's better than bigotry drama always
way more interesting than left wing right wing arguements and grooming allegations
love the hyunjin pfp
Salt shakers kinda problematic tbh
free the salt fr
Its a dignity mug for those with accessibility issues at a very non-accessible price
Right? As a disabled person I wouldn't feel very dignified having to drink plain tap water out of the mug because I can't afford fucking teabags after buying the bloody mug
@@ColossalRayI think the idea is that it's a gift piece. There are a lot of people making dignity mugs out there, and there are a lot of alternatives that are less... Dignified, I suppose.
She can charge whatever she can sell her art for, is my opinion. It's like expensive eyeglasses. I don't really care what there are thousand pound frames out there, because I can get mine for £30 if I want. I know that disability aids can be quite expensive in general, but where the cheaper alternative exists I don't think it's fair to whine at people who are selling functional, nice objects at what they're worth (materials + labour + **branding**).
@VicvicW when your choices are a £100 mug or a toddlers sippy cup most adults will choose the £100 but they shouldn't have to. The mugs are not labour intensive or extremely expensive to make (its not like she's a potter making them by hand - she's uses moulds). Being disabled is expensive enough as it is - exploiting disabled people's limited choices by overpricing your goods is not providing dignity to your customers. Everyone should be free to live their lives with dignity - not just the rare disabled rich person. Disability benefits are a pittance and most of it goes towards the higher cost of living disabled people have (special dietary requirements, mobility aids etc). Contributing to that by pricing your goods for disabled people so high is just profiteering on misery. It's cynical.
@@ColossalRay I think my original reply was deleted. You can buy second hand ceramic dignity mugs for, definitely less than £10, and brand new ones for definitely less than £15.
The existence of expensive disability aids is only a problem when no alternative exists. Wheelchairs and tube feeding setups are very expensive, for instance, and so discussions about how their price is inaccessible are worthy points of disability advocacy. Talking about how Gucci makes £500 glasses isn't, because you can get glasses for £30.
@VicvicW dignity mugs are by no means as widely available as cheap glasses, so thats by no means a fair comparison. Also, the target audience of designer glasses are people in work with wellpaying jobs, not disabled people, most of whom do not work (while many disabled people work, it's generally not the ones using dignity mugs as theyre for people with diminished motor control)
It is MORALLY WRONG to overcharge for goods whose target audience is disabled people.
Mug drama has nothing on the drama in the knitting community ngl
i agree knitting and yarn-adjacent drama is INSANE
What’s happening there?
@@SheelaNaGig it's a can of worms there... so be warned. 😂
@@SheelaNaGig check out Emma in the Moment! They have a bunch of videos on yarn drama.
@@jayjayjayjay5605 check out Emma in the Moment! They have some great videos on yarn drama (Mystical Creations yarn, Ravelry, copying drama)
i’ve seen a few people talking about this situation and the conclusion i’ve come to is that-
1) the lady who bought the mug never called out the shop specifically and didn’t seem to be attempting to instigate any drama in the original tiktok
2) everyone is allowed to have their own opinion on the price of the mug (and the whole pricing of an item made for people with disabilities) but i do think that it’s up to her, as it would technically classify as an art piece so she can price whatever she thinks her art is worth.
3) the whole situation was way blown out of proportion, the creator of the mug should have just talked to someone irl about the situation and moved on, it never needed to actually become a whole situation
Nah the creator of the mug was trying to guilt trip the buyer by constantly saying "as a small business you should know" "cause as a small business"
Art piece??? How do you spend hours and hours on basic glazing and basic elementary grade painting and classify that as art???
@@who__cares__ i’m not trying to defend the actions of the business owner bc she was definitely in the wrong as far as the situation goes. also everyone has a different definition of art, it’s personally not my cup of tea either but i still think she’s within her own right to price her work however she wants, nobody has to buy it, and if it’s that easy people can just make it for themselves for cheaper which is great for them
Exactly what I think. The creator made it the drama it was and smth people forget is she replied so much later when its tiktok and people forget??
@@who__cares__ do you REALLY want to be the one to start arguing that bad or amateur art is disqualified as being art? is that the argument you WANT to be making? how do people just say shit like that and not immediately realize "oh this is tremendously anti-art of me"
@@who__cares__ this is the wrong thing to be upset about lol. art you dont like is still art.
i wondered why everyone taps on everything in videos until i got acrylic nails a year ago. now i tap on EVERYTHING. it is so fun. when you have long tappy nails it’s just fun to tap them in every day life
I appreciate this comment haha as someone who just taps on things inexplicably. So at least there are two people who do this in real life 😂 I just have regular nails with a little length, but damned if I don’t compulsively tap on every door as I pass through it. -I know the asmr tapping is different and for some people it must be… nice to listen to? (It can tend to be grating for me). Lol but fr im just here to tap on things bc it feels nice
as soon as i put on press-ons i turn into an asmr creator
Ever since I started growing my nails I tap them on everything lol such a fun sound
I have anxiety, adhd, and am on the spectrum and I tap things a lot just as a stim and it actually kind of hurts when people call it creepy 😅
@@Peyz1824 I think that might also be why I tap on things, honestly! But I think what Pinely in specific meant was the ardent tapping on objects that’s big in asmr videos, maybe? Like packaging or containers, usually in videos advertising or preparing things. Especially when it’s very hard tapping in the videos, it can be very startling to hear again and again. But I do get where you’re coming from, that’s why I scrolled down to find some fellow tappers
This whole situation is such a non issue lmao
People on TikTok seem to not be able to tell what the difference of an actual problem and online drama is
@@myprofilepictureisafish it's silly but also a little disappointing how wide spread this crap gets. 99% of the tiktok drama of the week could easily be solved by just talking to people in private or not posting at all. It's usually just misunderstandings or somewhat minor inconveniences but people get so invested and take sides n shit. As an outsider it's SO weird lol
That's why I like it. Everyday we're flooded with depressing large scale news so hearing about a small niche bit of drama like this is comforting personally.
@@CultofHappwerfr
In a kinder timeline, "You could have just not bought it" could have been the mic drop end of this video and the end of this entire controversy.
Or, the owner could stfu and not brought attention to herself. She sounds pitiful
I knew of the owner before all this and I really like her and her pottery videos. I personally wouldn’t spend that kind of money on ceramics but she’s constantly sold out so people like her stuff. I’m sure she gets comments about how expensive her stuff is all the time and she was probably tired of hearing that and lashed out unfairly at this creator. Honestly she just needs to apologize for making this a bigger thing than it is and we can all move on.
She wasnt even mentioned... She could have just not said anything at all and this would not have been drama 💀
@@Ithinkyousuckrealbadshe was laughing at herself for spending too much money on a mug!
@@mtlewis973 that’s not who I was talking about, my friend. Reading comprehension is vital
This whole situation is such a non-issue but I gotta say I'm surprised that there's people out there who seemingly don't ask or double check prices before buying something
Yeah like, sure, social anxiety is a thing, but not going "oh wait no sorry I can't pay $80 for a singular mug" is so wild to me.
Like how much money do you have to have for your social anxiety to win out over your money anxiety in this situation??
I mean, I think she’s an influencer and a lot of influencers make a lot of money
Also many things at farmers markets or small stores have really tiny price tags, I just bought a ring that I thought was a steal for $8 (wasn’t expecting top quality just thought it was cute) and after I had chosen it and handed it over and said I’m gonna get this! and Venmo QR code was scanned, she said that’ll be $28 and I was like oh OOP (internally) and then paid. Bc I could technically afford it but still was cringing a little at spending that, and sometimes you come out of that appreciating the purchase and thinking it’s worth it (I really love the ring and it didn’t make my finger green which is A-Ok for me) and sometimes you have buyers anxiety like why tf did I do that? So anyways … it’s not always intentional lol but also she has the means and it’s not that big of a deal. Normal happenstance at art markets.
@@SpecialInterestShowsome people got it real bad, something like this happened to me before and I needed two intense therapy sessions to prepare for returning the item to the store, I was shaking during the whole time i was returning it l, I literally felt like I was being tortured
Even now returning stuff is still very uncomfortable for me but at least it doesn't trigger panic attacks anymore
I would never make a stupid tiktok about to to complain tho I understand that's a me problem lol
@@SpecialInterestShowhonestly, I think it's likely that she has enough money to outweigh the social anxiety for 80 bucks. 😅
Especially as an influencer going so where to spend money, if you have enough money, the bar for overcoming social anxiety gets way higher
they’re gonna start arguing over hats next aren’t they
Tf2
Maybe the crochet or knitting community? They’ve got a lot of lore honestly
There was a huge stink I saw in one crafters comment section debating if her hat was really handmade because she used a knitting loom. It was nuts. And as a crocheter, yeah fiber arts have SO much drama.
im pretty sure they already have
@@Sheena000the idea of the crochet and knitting community fighting over who is better sounds like it could be some sort of anime
The mug maker bringing up that two handles can be helpful for people with disabilities like it’s charitable while the mug costs $81 is a little funny
Every now and again I wonder if I'm missing out not being on TikTok. And then I see things like this.
Big ol same
Sameeee 🤣🤣🤣
Watch some tiktok cringe compilations and you'll be thankful that you're missing out.
Same here, managed to keep myself from downloading it since 2019, and that's one thing i'm still grateful for to 2019-onward me.
Lmao same
I buy ceramic mugs for my dad from craft fairs like once a yr as a bday or a Christmas present. Theyre not slip cast or hand painted like in the video, they’re hand thrown and probably dip glazed. But this usually costs around 20-30$ bc ceramics artists who are good at pottery can throw a lot of stuff in large quantities/batches. I’m all for paying artists their dues (I have an arts degree) but I know the hours that hand made stuff takes so I’m pretty picky when it comes to where I buy handmade stuff from!
I paid $25 for a 10 oz mug that was hand crafted and hand painted, granted it wasn't as detailed as the strawberries and I know handmade ceramics are time intensive but $80 USD is wild
My ceramic reusable coffee cup (16oz) cost me about $30 AUD which was originally $60AUD but cheaper because of manufacturing errors
You guys are the expert witnesses that I didn’t realize I desperately needed
I wish this comment was closer to the top so I didn’t have to spend an extra twenty min in limbo making up my mind but I love the roller coaster rides of his videos anyway
I genuinely do not know how could she have seen and picked the mug without realizing it had two handles
The mug was behind the table, she probably didn't get to pick it up at all before starting to buy it.
@@iimuffinsaur Hmm I see, thank you for clarifying
she couldn't have. I've been to markets like this before and there's no way she could have bought it without handling it
There is a picture of the stall from the day, where all the strawberry mugs were on display behind the counter, out of reach. Might not have seen the handles until Shelby picked it up. Also might not have gotten told the prices until it was entered into the eftpos machine
@@lilyorsman1427but also there’s other videos showing that the strawberry mug is on the front table it’s all so confusing
Part of it is also that the original video is actually around 7 minutes long and the mug portion is brushed over and obviously not meant to spark any drama… also agree with a commenter in the TikTok video comment section that said that stressing that it’s a mug for those that are disabled while.. selling at a price that is not accessible is certainly something
Thank you! "It costs more because it's for disabled people" is NOT the flex she thinks it is 😬
i love the absurdity of “i had to buy the mug” and also of “😢 i asked whether you would like tissue paper…or a bit of extra padding… because i wanted to make sure the mug was safe 😢”
It’s not absurd tbh, a lot of ppl don’t want to be rude and wouldn’t say anything in that situation either
Not saying you're wrong, but there is an extreme urge to tap on things when you have long nails. It's very satisfying.
Speak for yourself. Not everybody’s annoying as fuck
@@Ithinkyousuckrealbad sorry, I and many others, but not everybody** like to do this :)
@@Ithinkyousuckrealbad youre a woman why are you hating like a man
@@Ithinkyousuckrealbad i dont think its annoying. everyone does have their own likes and dislikes, dont need to be rude about it
@@Ithinkyousuckrealbad rude as hell for no reason 😭 i have long nails too nd i love tapping things, but i'm not going to purposefully annoy others with it.
I'm equally annoyed by entitled preachy 'small business' people and people who point out how a cutesy specialty item is too expensive or 'overpriced' when they have the option to simply not buy it.
I feel that because these mugs are intended for disabled people (that's why there's 2 handles) it's more reasonable to critique the price point - especially since its not a highly labour intensive good. Disabled people usually aren't exactly rolling in cash because disability benefits aren't a lot to live on and they get cut for arbitrary reasons all the time. Her material and labour costs are quite low so making the goods so expensive just because its banking on exploiting the needs of disabled people is pretty grim. When the choice is forking out for one of these or drinking out of a baby's sippy cup a lot of adult disabled people will buy these and I think that's a damn shame.
A couple details I think are important: the mug wasn’t hand-thrown on a wheel, it was casted with a mold. That doesn’t discount the work that went into casting it, but Shelby (iirc) did NOT create the mold herself, and the mold wasn’t created with the intent to be disability-friendly. So yeah, I really don’t think that price was justified.
All that aside, I have a problem with TikTok drama in general. Not to be a boomer, but… did we just forget that not everything has to be a public debate? This situation would have gone over so much better if both parties just said “damn that sucks”, messaged each other privately to sort out their grievances, and moved on. Handling this issue in a passive-aggressive TikTok stitch battle just makes both of them look whiny and immature.
i mean tbf sopha just did a haul for what she bought and mentioned that mug for less than a minute out of the whole video and was like damn crazy price and didnt even mention the person she got it from. the owner just felt attacked for no reason and started the whole thing over nothing when if she woudnt have made the video, almost no one would have known that it was her business
@@alnzr28 right? it cost her nothing to feel attacked but keep quiet about it instead of starting pointless drama lol
As an accessibility item it's at a very inaccessible price point for people who need it.
I didn't even consider that. Someone who can't even pick up a mug one handed is most likely not able to work and is presumably living off disability.
@@Oliviaandtrinai get periodic weakness and can absolutely work. There are also lower price point mugs for people who cant. Having more options is never a bad thing, even if some things are expensive. The bad part is when disabled people have no CHOICE but to shell out for stuff we cant afford. Disability is not a monolith and we all have incredibly different needs
@@medicinemouse7647 Tea
I do have tp complain that the mug is so small. In my personal experience as a disabled person who can end up with a lot of weakness in my hands to the point of dropping stuff. Despite that, i also enjoy having a big cup so i dont have to go back for more of my drink and so on
anyone who works retail can tell you many customers are incapable of finding price tags, reading signs, etc. i've had countless customers see the price on the card reader and say "wait, how much is it?!" so i don't think she was lying about not knowing the price or that there were two handles, regardless of if it went how shelby said it did
also if you look at pictures the mug was in the back and kinda hidden it was probably hard to tell
And small business type places always have tiny tags or it’s not tagged at all. A lot of times I don’t buy things if it’s not clearly labeled bc I hate having to say something or haggle.
You are so right omg
Thanks for yet again proving that I'm not missing anything by avoiding tiktok.
Mug Maker laid it on a bit too thick for my taste. She might as well have launched into a speech about how she has glass bones and paper skin and that’s why she has to charge so much money for a little cup that’s apparently made for disabled people. No need for all that. You got a annoying review from a customer. Happens to the best of us. Put the phone down, grab your best girlie, and have a venting/yap session over some two handed tea.
Yeah, people saying she was manipulative is weird to me. She was unprofessional, but like not an evil manipulative mastermind like some people seem to be claiming. Part of why I'm sorta terrified of tiktok tbh. They eat buzzwords for breakfast 💀
Definitely a bit icky and unprofessional but not a cartoon supervillain
@@Oliver-kw3dk i think passive agressivness raises red flags in people. Well it does to me. It immediately makes person who's speaking very unpleasant.
@@steelclackers2611 oh yeah she's unpleasant and a jerk, but not like a manipulation mastermind evil
@@Oliver-kw3dk not a master manipulator but she was def crying for sympathy.
As soon as the cup lady said "we were excited you were there cause we thought youd shout us out" i knew why she responded...
She threw all the other stall holders under the bus with that 😅
Sorry i dont understand, what do you mean?
@@srushed I think it’s because she was clearly wanting to get mentioned in the video showing what sophadopha bought at the market
@@derpleyew interesting. It could explain why she was so eager to start packing the mug the moment she showed interest and why sopha felt bad enough to not say no
@@srushed yeah exactly. I had never heard of sophadopha before any of this, but apparently she’s a popular influencer who does haul videos. I had actually seen a few videos of Shelby’s before on Facebook but never realised it was her until yesterday lol.
What I’ve read about this situation is the fact that sophadopha didn’t really say anything about the mug other than what’s in pinely’s video, she didn’t say it was made by Shelby and the video was online for a while before Shelby made hers meaning she obviously went back to see if she had a shoutout. The whole thing feels like it’s ego vs ego, and they should have just resolved it offline instead of this stupid drama that is a non issue.
February is a boring month, might as well fight over mugs
I dont get why people are mad at the girl who bought the mug because
1) she didnt call out the business
2) she was just complaining about it being expensive - it doesn't matter if its fairly priced or not some people simply do not want to pay the price for handmade goods (coming from a crocheter)
3) she didnt really put any blame onto the business in the initial video. If anything, it was more of her blaming herself
She didn't have to call out the business directly. That particular design is associated with her business so when the TT showed the mug, people within the craft community knew/were able to figure out which business she was referring to.
I haven't gotten super far into the video yet, but as someone who took a lot of ceramics classes in university and had to write a few research papers on ceramic artists, I saw that it was very common for artists to price each piece $100+. Even designs that look "simple" sell for a lot.
Even for slip cast?
all the controversies now are so random and strange
Last hand thrown mug I got was 35usd didn’t realize I was getting such a bargain
Hand thrown mugs aren’t slip-cast or hand-glazed.
mine was painted to look like a cat so its actually a super bargain regardless@@sorormimm493
@@sorormimm493I'm pretty sure they're hand-glazed lol. Also I'm not extremely knowledgeable about ceramics, but isn't using a mould, like... significantly less work than hand-sculpting something? I've certainly found that to be the case in my sculpting work. This lady didn't even make her moulds herself. This isn't discounting her talent and the work she puts in, but let's not pretend that using a mould you bought is more labour-intensive than hand-sculpting.
People were also mad cause she was HEAVILY hiding behind the "I'm a small business" thing, to try and make people feel more sorry for her. I'd say she priced the mug like she hand sculpted it, but even people who hand sculpt mugs generally price them lower than that.
Trueee. I do machine embroidery and I would never price my things as high as a hand embroidered item and then tell everyone its hand made.
She sounded so pitiful 🤮 everybody loves a pity party. I see straight through her.
Idk why she prices it that high idk how molds work but I just saw some of her vids and she bought the molds she didn’t even make them herself 😭
@@glitt.rit's probably bc she makes a limited number of things per month. And with her follower count she pretty much has to price things higher. $80 is actually pretty average for a painted mug, wheel thrown or not
yeah fr whys she tryinbto guilt people. she got her money already, and no one even knew she made the mug. jesus
Tbh, Shelby seems more in the wrong to me. Soph gives off mean girl vibes, but Shelby gives off "victim" vibes (like almost crying in her video). Soph was complaining about regretting a purchase, she didn't call out the business, she just regretted a purchase. Shelby took this shit way too personally. She needs to get over it. Also, tiktok drama is so weird.
Agreed. Complaining about the price online after you willingly paid for it is annoying but Shelby was doing too much in her response. Like she was really laying it on thick lol “we were all sooooo happy to see you looking at the mugs 🥺” like girl was really going for her Oscar 😂
Shelby was being so manipulative it’s crazy
Shelby sounds like she’s never worked an actual job in her life. She just makes these kindergarten crafts and wants everyone to throw a pity party for some shit SHE brought attention to. I hate business owners like this.
@@MinaF99 idk about manipulative tbh. Like if someone made a video shitting on one of my crochet pieces I would SOB.
She was unprofessional, but I wouldn't say manipulative. Also people who have been to the event say there's no way Soph COULDN'T have touched the mug because of the way the festival is set up
@@Oliver-kw3dk nobody was shitting on the mug. I don't think Soph said anything that could be construed as shitting on the mug. She said it was small, expensive, and she didn't realise it had two handles. I don't think saying it was like a sippy cup is offensive because it literally is like a sippy cup. Nothing she said was mean, just critical.
Criticism isn't being mean. That's something you need to learn if you run a business selling handmade stuff. You're going to get criticism, and that's not a knock on you or even your product. It's just how you learn what works and what doesn't. Even satisfied customers can be critical. If you go into every sale believing you're going to get a five star review after, then business isn't for you.
all of these "you"s are general yous, not aimed specifically at you who I'm replying to. it's at people who do business but can't handle anything remotely critical. there are a lot of reasons why I don't sell anything I make even though I'm a crafty person, and that's because I know I would struggle with this (amongst other things). you can't decide what happens to a product after you sell it, or what they're going to think about it. the quality can be great, but there can still be improvements, at least for that particular person.
i don't think she called it a sippy cup solely because of the double handles lol i think the outrageously small size has an equal amount to do with it😭
That is an extremely standard mug size, though. Like, you'd fit 250ml/8 fluid ounces in there comfortably.
@@Joe90h I think most commercially available mugs are 320ml/11oz at a minimum. It is rare to see them much smaller than that. They exist, but most people would look at them and consider them really small.
@@Joe90h the small size on my keurig is 8oz, and most people want to add milk to their coffee.
@@Joe90hnot according to the website, they only hold up to 200ml/6oz.
I’m a professional ceramicist, and I *do* know how to price a handmade mug. This price is ridiculous, and I do not believe for a second that Shelby took the time, during a busy market, to talk to every customer about prices/etc. Not for a second do I buy that.
These mugs are made from molds Shelby purchased, using slip she probably purchased, glazed with underglaze or majolica that she purchased, and fired on a pre-programmed kiln that she literally presses a couple of buttons to start. In her TH-cam video getting ready for the market, she says herself that others help her with glazing, so she can’t even claim that she does *that* on her own. However, on her website she claims that a certain mug takes *four hours* each for her to paint, and that all pieces are glazed by her. This woman is clearly not honest because there is absolutely no way that the mug I saw takes four hours per piece to glaze, and she says herself that at least one other person helps her glaze. The four hour claim is what makes me so sure she’s just flatly dishonest because it’s, for real, the most ridiculous statement I’ve ever seen/heard about creating ceramics. It is more likely that Shelby spends 15-30 minutes of labor on each mug. If she claims to spend more time than that on these super simple pieces that she doesn’t even make molds for, I don’t know what to say other than, “Suuuure, okay.”
Because of these reasons, I think this incredibly overpriced mug is something Shelby is probably sensitive about, and she lied to try to justify the outrageous prices she is charging her customers. IMO, she knows she’s ripping people off, and she felt the need to defend “her” work (which, from my own viewpoint, again, as a professional ceramicist, is only 10% of her own work).
So, that’s where I see the drama. Lol
Yeah as someone that crochets, I understand the price of a product doesn't add up to how much labor it took, I would *never* charge 80 USD for something because that's how you get no one to buy your shit
THANK YOU. Not specialized in ceramics or anything but I do a lot of crafts in my spare time and am looking into starting my own small buisness clothing store. I absolutely understand the pricing of small buisness being hiring than people expect but let's not pretend this is a regular pricing. At the end of the day she can price it how she wants if she thinks her handcrafted art is worth that much, I def think the first girl should have just not bought it if it's out of her budget.
But I really don't appreciate the implication as well that not only is her pricing sort of standard, but that because it's a mug that accounts for special needs, it's gonna be on a higher price range.
I have seen some mugs that are legit basically tiny paintings, and would be so worth that price, same ways some handpainted clothes could be. But there isn't even that much detail in what she's painting or anything. I so disagree with her pricing and I think she should have the self awareness it's not standard. There's not much wrong with just admitting "listen that's my price, I think it's worth it, and my clientele is satisfied with my products and what I sell so that's how I'm doing things, sorry not sorry, you shouldn't have bought it then".
Thank you!! I totally agree! My grandmother made ceramics and sold them all her life. I grew up around them and helped all the time. That tiny mug was WAY overpriced. And her trying to guilt the other girl by saying it’s for people with disabilities seems made up to garner sympathy and favor. I don’t believe it for a moment. Also her throwing in “as a small business owner” every other sentence was nauseating. She made it a big deal by making a video when the other girl hadn’t even name dropped her. All was just blown out of proportion.
P.S. wishing you continued success and love for your art form 💕
it being overpriced is really not up for debate. She can price it at that amount because people will buy it for that amount. the girl in the video said her stand was pretty popular so if she's selling well, then it is properly priced.
i do however think that if she wants to highlight its for people with disabilities, the pricing should reflect that.
Thank you for the rational take. The issue in this situation isn't the mug being "overpriced", and its disappointing to see artists devalue other artists' work because they personally wouldn't buy it.@@soloheroina
As someone who makes pottery on the side (And who follows Sophie on Instagram) 81 dollars for a mug that size is actually insane IMO and Sophie completely handled this situation wrong but people really don't understand how expensive pottery is. "she just pours it into molds." Molds can actually be very expensive depending on the size and detail level, anywhere from 10 to over 200 dollars (as well as the fact that Sophie seems to get most of her molds off gumtree meaning she's likely getting them from other small businesses) as well as paying for glazes, which will be over 10 dollars each and even more if you get food safe glaze and don't even get me started on clay prices.
This is the third video I've seen by someone I'm subscribed to that's not into pottery... As an Australian potter that's been to the finder's keepers market as a customer, it's way closer to the way that Shelby describes it with people picking things up. There's no way that Soph could have NOT noticed that it has two handles, unless she specifically made someone else pick it up for her, which would be weird.
Shelby lives in Sydney, where rent even on the cheaper side is $400/week. Cost of living has gone up and I understand why it's priced that high even though i personally wouldn't have bought it.
Slip casting things with a mold is NOT an easy process. Though it is what they do when they mass-produce something, they have a much larger accepted margin for error. Ten broken mugs in a mold is nothing to a big company, but even one to a single person is a big deal especially when they have to spend the money on paying for the electric of the kiln and expensive plaster, ESPECIALLY since Shelby works with porcelain.
I went to highschool with a bunch of girls like Soph and yeah, they would lie to instigate drama and then act like the person they're talking shit about is totally hysterical.
No notes on your comment except that I know a lot of guys like that too lol
@@rampion1228 same lmao
Finally another potter in the comments 😭 everyone acting like the price of this mug is outrageous doesn’t understand just how time and energy consuming every step of clay is to work with
I don't know anything about pottery but I do know that the wrong consistency of slip can ruin a piece I think
It's not like "easy mode".
Also it was icky just the fact that she was complaining about spending her own money. Girl I wish I had that much money for anything.
Shelby also hand glazes the mugs. I've done ceramics in art and oh my god glazing is a whole other skill
@@Oliver-kw3dk Yeah, i can't even imagine buying something without knowing the price OR what exactly I'm buying
In a faraway alternate universe, Shelby Ceramics and Sophadopha have joined forces to discuss the intense discourse around Evil Pinely’s 82 investigator glasses…
As someone who's creeped out by ASMR I appreciate you pointing out the finger tapping. It's like nails on chalk board for me, personally
I have misophonia and the goddamn whispering and lip smacking in so many of those videos is a huge trigger for me.
@@PeeperSnail that's so weird to me because i have no problem with whispering in ASMR, but if someone whispers irl, my brain starts infinitely loading because i cannot process wtf they just said
Tbh i get they might be doing it for asmr but for me when things are tapped on or patted when their describing a material helped me get a better understanding on how sturdy, light and quality it is or if their even describing the material right
Its not for the camera its genuinely a fun thing to do when u have long nails
@@PeeperSnaildrives me absolutely crazy. I used to be a pen-clicker (I fiddle a lot 'cause of ADHD), but after realising how much tapping p*sses me off, I've kicked that habit.
Thank you pinely for letting me know what's on tiktok without having to use that app
i assure you this is nothing like my feed, not had i heard of this drama until pinely posted this. comments like these are like saying you hate music because you heard one taylor swift song. there are so many sides to it. but yeah, shitty company who runs it
@@irl.nephilim nah, it's more that I'm old and don't like tiktok's user interface. If the UI was like vine, I'd be on it, but I can't handle the forced stream.
My takeaway from this vid: I don't like either of these people very much.
Amateur ceramicist here, the price of the double handled mug is hugely overinflated. Sure, when you sell your wares most potters will factor in the value of the resources used, as well as a cost for the time spent making it, and there will be time and focus needed for each individual item even if it’s made using a slip cast mould.
The kiln firing could possibly be a 3 stage process if she uses a wax resist for the strawberries if they’re painted as an underglaze after the first firing, the wax melts off and the mugs would need to be dipped in a clear glaze and then fired a final time. Firing costs a LOT of money, especially if you’re making large batches in a large kiln. They use vast amounts of electricity and and time is needed to let everything cool down enough to be removed without cracking, even a slightly warm mug placed on a wooden surface can split the glaze open as the heat dissipates unevenly, but room temperature air can be just as risky. Some potters do include the cooling time in their coats, as well as the cost of running the kiln each time. The process would take around a week in total for each mug (made in batches) from start to finish, and to get a consistent product like this also takes knowledge and special care. The cost of the market stall will be included too.
So I can see how the ceramicist is taking issue with how her business is portrayed, I do think the cost is higher than it should be, but the passive aggressive tone and the way she’s clearly really unhappy about the criticism is wild.
My biggest issue is the fact she kind of sneeringly brings up how the mug is for differently abled people as a rebuttal for the “sippy cup” comment, because to charge such a massive excess for a customer base that need adapted products such as this is gross. There’s no way to justify such a huge premium if you’re making products that are targeted at one demographic and likely will cost way way more than a similar mug with just one handle.
I’m fascinated by TikTok dramas like this though.
Edited to add…
I checked out the website for her pottery and now being more conscious of her ceramics are a whole I need to say the following:
A- they’re all absolutely amazing (i want the mushroom butter dish it’s so cute)
B- the two handled mugs are cheaper than the single handled mugs
C- they are all hand poured & finished before 1st firing, hand painted/glazed before 2nd firing, and she sometimes sands the glazed piece if they need any last touches
D - my estimates for the time it takes to make a piece fell short of a week given the process and care she takes to perfect every piece in each batch
E- the two handled mugs are not listed, tagged, or described as being “dignity mugs” and she makes no indication that these have been created with disabled customers in mind. Whether or not that’s done as part of the dignity aspect I can’t know, but it did strike me as odd given how she included it at the end of her video.
Edited AGAIN to add:
She didn’t even make these moulds or buy the kiln she uses, her website has a TikTok of her getting the entire contents of a pottery studio, including hundreds of moulds, and a kiln..for FREE. Like she kitted out the entire studio without it costing her anything at all, having the moulds all already made is a huge huge help to her not having to make plaster slip moulds herself (I’ve made slip moulds myself, and while it’s tedious it’s not hugely time consuming, but there’s no margin for error). Regardless of this it is still labour intensive and time consuming to produce batches of any ceramics to a high standard, especially when it is the business that is a sole form of income.
Hi, I'm disabled, you're allowed to call people disabled, you don't need to say "differently abled".
I don't like it because it just becomes a euphemism for saying someone is disabled, without actually acknowledging what that means. I'm not "differently abled", I am disabled, I use a wheelchair. I'm disabled in the ways some people aren't (like walking), but I don't have extra different abilities like that phrase implies. I have the same amount of "abilities", but some of them aren't available to me, not "different". Being disabled means I can't get into shops sometimes because there isn't a ramp, because the inside is too small, because there isn't a lift. It's having chronic pain and chronic fatigue. It's not a smoothed over euphemism treadmill of "differently abled" "person with a disability" whatever. None of those words get me the ramp, none of those words recognise that it is hard and messy and difficult being disabled and that it's worthy of more recognition than glazing over what being disabled is like in favour of more "kinder", "politically correct", "polite" language.
I'm not trying to be mean to you, it's just that phrase rubs me up the wrong way. This is your permission to call people disabled and be blunt about what it means. I'm not angry at you, I'm not angry about being disabled. I love your comment and I agree with it. But please don't gloss over being disabled because you think it's not woke or pc. It doesn't matter if it is or isn't, but I want to make sure people understand that words don't help get ramps and lifts, but they do help disguise the reality of what people go through.
(the word "unhoused" gets me the same, like why are we trying to gloss over homelessness? we have a word for it, it's not offensive. it just makes people uncomfortable so now we have to use a new word if we want to look cool and liberal even though there are still homeless people, who are actual people struggling. if it makes people uncomfortable, good. think about the words and the issues, don't skirt around them.)
One more thing to add on, they’re in Australia, where electricity is through the roof in costs rn. Also, it was 120 Australian dollars, which is about 80 USD. Which is not super unusual for what I see at holiday markets around me for thrown mugs. I think the detailed glazing offsets the slip casting in terms of value, but I also would never buy this mug. Even though I understand and think the price is justified. I’m just poor. 😂
But the buyer is also a bit at fault. Who buys something without knowing the price and then goes through with it?? You have that shock moment and then you go, “I’m so sorry, actually I can’t swing this” or whatever. But the only real issue here is why are we even doing this? Guys. Not everything needs to go online😭 especially to the woman whose business it is- let’s have some professionalism. Don’t respond. And if you’re going to, might as well fully commit.
Disabled person here, don't correct her to "differently abled". The vast majority of disabled people don't use that term, and a lot of us actively dislike it.
Also, if you do not understand what people who use these mugs actually want, don't try to imagine it. Many of them have pointed out that it's small on purpose because that makes it lighter.
Stay in your lane, boost the voices of people who are actually effected.
@@rVnsunshine hey thanks for taking the time to explain that so eloquently, I hadn’t remembered her phrasing when I was writing my comment and I should have gone back to that segment to check exactly what she had said. I’m sorry for the poor choice of wording and totally get why it’s not appropriate or well liked by disabled people. I’m a disabled person myself, however I’m not physically disabled so I’m not part of the target market for adapted or specialist products like the mugs. But I really do appreciate the correction and especially as you put so much thought into explaining it to me.
@@theMoporter thanks, I am disabled myself but my disabilities are mental/neurological rather than physical, so the mug is not something I am the target demographic for, I haven’t intended for it come across like I’m imagining what people want or need.
My phrasing was off the back of her referring to them as “falling under the ‘dignity mug’ category for people with different needs and different disabilities” and I should have gone back to check exactly what she said before inducing the term”differently abled” in my original comment.
The mugs having two handles and a lighter weight make a lot of sense in that respect, as you pointed out. But it seems odd to me that when I had a look at her online shop I couldn’t see any mention of the fact they’re “dignity mugs”, not in the item description, not in her categorising, and there wasn’t anything in her site whatsoever that would make it clear that she even makes adapted items for disabled people. It seems like she added that on at the end of her video to criticise how the mug was referred to as a “sippy cup”, even the way she’s thanking her for coming to the market and including all of the other stall holders as being so excited that she came was obvious that she wanted to make an emotionally impactful statement about her small business. She uses quite a passive aggressive manner of talking but when it’s so clearly personal to her it makes sense.
I did add some extra bits to the end of my original comment after looking at her website, and the 2 handled mug is cheaper than the mugs with 1 handle, but converting the cost to pounds (I’m British) it’s almost £70 for one of the strawberry mugs. That is *really* expensive even if it’s about $10AUD cheaper than the others. So I know she isn’t charging a premium for the adaptation, she does charge less for them but it’s still at a cost I think is higher than it needs to be.
Sorry for a such a long response, i hope I’ve explained my thoughts a bit more clearly now!
I have a vague idea of the who the seller is? The handful of times I open the app each month, I’m normally on the pottery side of tiktok because that’s a passion of mine and I like to see other people’s stuff. I don’t feel comfortable trying to claim truth to either story, but I do think the mug price is pretty fair. Granted, for a smooth shape like that, personally maybe $75 USD (i don’t know the conversion to Australian)? It is a mold, but even that can be difficult. I think the maker uses primarily vintage molds, which can be very difficult. They can degrade pretty easily, sometimes they don’t set properly, that’s not even getting into the cost to get the molds, get the clay, PLUS the kiln to fire it, PLUS glaze and all of the hours going into a piece.
Overall, no judgement on the drama itself but I believe the mug is fairly priced.
ultimately i just don't think this was a complaint to go on a public platform. something you talk to your friends over but i can't believe we're starting drama over "i bought a mug that i only saw from one angle without knowing the price"
Shelby (the maker) responding to a 6 week old that doesn't mention her business by name is pretty unprofessional to me. Her feelings may have been hurt, but reviews (like the one Sopha made) are for other potential customers and not the business owner.
The more professional thing would have been to message Sopha privately to try and work out something, or simply acknowledge that not everyone is gonna have a great experience with your business and move on.
I'm pretty sure that soph is older than 6 weeks
I'd hardly say it's hidden, the design is well known to be Shelby's
@@demetriam2408To people who are fans of her, sure but those people aren't necessarily the demographic of that review are they?
@@ohh771 as said in the video, it's literally in her profile picture. Both Shelby and Soph are large creators, Shelby was the biggest business at the event and everyone was expecting Soph to attend and paid close attention to her opinions on the things she bought. Everyone knew immediately who she was talking about.
This is kinda like the discussions in the book community about authors responding to reviews of their books. Who are reviews for? Should creators be involved in reviewer’s spaces? The internet makes everyone accessible to everyone else so it’s new territory to navigate.
like yeah the shop owner can sell her art for whatever amount she wants but there was no reason for her to create that victim like, sad background music, support small businesses bs because she literally didn't call out the business name at all? or critique the shop? she literally just admitted she was too embarrassed to say it was too expensive and bought it anyway lol.
I actually follow the woman who made that mug a little on youtube. I like the designs and stuff and how she styles her pottery. I bet the set was advertised on one of her tiktoks or youtube shorts so that's why she says it in such a familiar way because her followers would know, but not someone who just walked into an art market. That being said this whole situation is such a nothing burger and both people could have just not made either videos. But I get as an artist, it's hard to justify any price, but especially one that helps you continue doing said art for a living, so that's probably why the Shelby was so defensive. Especially since we live in a time that people will just say, "oh just buy a dollar mug from the dollar store, why is it so expensive?" when these are more artisan pieces rather than mass made, machine dip glazed mugs.
Soph, the first girl, was doing a haul. The mug was just one minute of a seven minute video where she talked about other items she was gifting. Customers should be allowed to criticize the products or services that they pay for, it’s like an online review
@@dotcom3015 This this this! Add onto the fact Soph never said Shelby's name or shop name. I think Shelby acted super entitled with this whole situation and this is coming from someone who used to really like her videos.
people are allowed to review products they paid for lmfao
Stop defending that pitiful business “owner”. Stop. Consumers are allowed to say whatever tf they want. Also, yes, her prices are legitimately outrageous. 110% inexcusable
ive seen this sentiment again and again over the years but if youre a small business, you cant be too sensitive about what you release out into the world because once a product is made to the public, it is detached from you and it is its own thing. it may be personal and sentimental to you but once there is an audience, you cannot control how they react, only how you yourself does. its really really hard to do and you have to be brave about it. theres a lot of love out there and theres a lot of opinions too
It's a good day when Evil Pinely talks about random internet drama I wouldve never cared about
I've made a cup before and it takes time, glazing and design etc. is relatively complex, although once you've done a college (not university but college like a UK college course idk what you call them in the US) you could do that design. Adding a second handle would take so little time and material that it is more of a fun addition than something that would add a huge amount to the price. $81 is expensive.
It’s not all that expensive when you factor in paying for:
Clay
A space to make the items
Running your own kiln
Glaze
The price of the stall in the market
The packaging
The advertising items (business cards etc)
Her time
The fuel to get to the market.
The cost of living spiralling out of control.
Like, it all adds up. And ceramics have a huge margin for failure through cracking or exploding in the kiln etc and she’s probably eating those failure costs.
There’s a huge amount of artists who underprice themselves and don’t make a living.
@@SallyBerry9 it all adds up to something in the region of about 10 - 30 (and that top end is very charitable to your position) per mug for someone who is selling items at the rate you would at a market stall.
@@Alex-cw3rz man, I’d love to know where you’re getting your stuff from because that’s cheap as shit.
@@SallyBerry9 that would be making 300 mugs with a $3,000 furnace (which would last practically unlimited mugs a single person could make)... I'm not exactly sure how you are adding up these costs to get even close to 80 per mug, unless you payed yourself 40 dollars an hour in labour.
@@Alex-cw3rz I dunno how to say this but: paying for the kiln doesn’t mean you don’t continue paying for the (huge amount of) electricity it takes up.
You also have to continuously buy clay, glaze, pay rent, pay bills, run your website (in fact, she might pay someone to do her website if she’s too busy, so that’s more money), get packaging (and since her business is popular, she’s using higher end, customised things), etc etc.
My biggest question is why something meant for disabled folk is being sold for over a hundred dollars
Like don’t get me wrong, I understand the value of art/crafts as someone who does illustration commissions, but if your product is aimed at a group of people that, on average, barely have enough income and for whom options that cater to their disabilities are rare and pricy, why price it like that? Or more specifically, why make such a big deal out of how you’re supposedly catering to them?
Probably because Shelby just made that up to garner sympathy from people that haven’t seen she never even mentioned this on her website. Lol.
Yeah that legit pissed me off. Like if she meant to say it's a more complicated mug and the price reflects that sure. But she really said it like she's put a "disability tax" or like that's normal to do lmao.
YEP I thought that too. I'm mentally disabled and I get ssi from the US gov, and I'll willingly share as a 19 yr old I only get $650 a month. Not including food stamps, that is a savior 🙌. I get some make less some make more depending on circumstance. But did you know legally if you are disabled there is a cap on how much money you can have? I forget the number but it's ridiculously low, to where emergency funds is not possible. I think it's around $2000 dollars. So we don't have much. there are PLENTY durable and cheaper alternatives.. she said that to garner sympathy like previous commenter said and I can see thru it.
It also imo (as someone who isn't disabled so probably not smth to take that into account sorry) doesn't seem like size wise it would be much help to anyone who was actually disables except maybe a kid but even then you wouldnt hand a kid who might have a hard time holding smth a 120 dollar cup. Like its so small in the buyer's hands!
Thank you for saying that cause I couldn't put it quite right into words but it rubbed me wrong.
im really confused as to why the customer bought an 80 DOLLAR MUG!!! and proceeded to go "idk what im really gonna do with it" what!
She bought it thinking it had one handle, but with it having two, she's not sure what to do with it. She was planning on giving it as a gift from the beginning, but doesn't know who to give it to now. That's all.
I appreciate the title change Evil Pinely :) it feels less angry, plus the mug is only 80$ USD, but 125 aud
what was the original title ?
the $125 tiktok mug. the thumbnail also didnt have the bars over the eyes saying who the seller and buyer was. really, genuinely nice changes for a guy named evil pinely. he did send a demon to my house /gen but other than that evil pinely is pretty cool@@gargles5270
Pencil making company CEOs shaking in their boots after that intro.
“That will be $80 for a special needs mug. What-I run a small business! I have to price gouge the disabled”
its cheaper than most of her other mugs save for the ones that are dip glazed rather than hand painted.
Ive heard this story before and ive had time to ruminate on it and the thing that bothers me the most is shelby being like "ugh how dare you this is for disabled people" the 120$ mug is for disabled people who usually dont have very much money due to their disabilities lmao okay girl! Ive seen others compare her prices to other hand made mugs and hers honestly seems a bit high even for hand made.
Also Im not trying to say disabled people cant buy themselves nice things or they cant be rich but the majority cant or arent. it just felt weird like shelby was trying to throw it in our faces how inclusive her mug is and how dare the other girl not immediately understand. And maybe if shelby actually explained everything in detail to her customers like she said she did the og girl would have known that!
Idk just weird, and it sounds like i really dislike shelby, i dont, i actually followed her on Instagram before this and still am. I like her content and she genuinely seems nice i think she just misremembered this interaction and maybe should have said nothing and kept it pushing lol
Finally, someone with a decent reasonable take
I consider everything having ASMR to be one of my primary old person complaints
I feel like I would have way more sympathy for the customer if her first video was mainly, "I'm so socially anxious I can't say no to buying a mug I think is overpriced and I know I don't have a use for" Her initial video was definitely way more judgy than I think she intended and saying that she never implied that the mug was overpriced is such a lie when she was talking about how small it was.
This honestly just feels like another internet drama caused by someone posting something without realising that the person they're talking about will almost definitely see it and get upset
It would be really funny if they both were confused and it turned out they didn't actually know each other and the described interaction was with totally different people.
i think a couple details that were cut here are important. soph uploaded a 7 minute haul video last december where, somewhere in the middle, she talks about the mug. so over a month later, shelby somehow gets word of it. something else that was partially left out was shelby talking about how excited they all were for a tiktok celebrity to have come to their event, hoping she'd make videos about it. it seems to me that shelby never saw soph make any videos about the event, so she went back on her page and LOOKED THROUGH THEM to see if she ever mentioned them, and got butthurt when it was a throwaway comment about how expensive it was, so she responds and puts words in her mouth and lies about the transaction. VERY weird situation. i've seen her on my feed in the past and enjoyed her energy, but this response was so bad it's soured my opinion of her
Okay Pinely, if you had acrylics, tapping things is so fun!!! You start tapping more than you would without them!
I have a friend who hand makes mugs, and they sell for like $40 Canadian at most. $125 Australian is ridiculous.
That is also what I’ve seen mugs at craft fairs go for, I just bought a hand thrown mug for my dad and it was 35$ (usd)
idk if I were a small business owner-where reputation can quite literally make or break you-and I come online to see someone (who I presumably know and was excited to sell to??) complaining about my prices and misrepresenting my products I’d be pretty pissed off lmao. like the buyer was probably just venting her buyers remorse (been there) but doing so on a public platform invites criticism/rebuttal. was the price kinda crazy? sure, but at the end of the day YOU tapped your card knowing how much it cost
I just have to say as a person with ADHD (aka cool guy syndrome) I have to say I really appreciate the small changes throughout the video like the sunglasses bc it keeps me so much more engaged (not that it’s hard to stay engaged with your videos to begin with but ya know it’s just like the cherry on top)
125 bucks is crazy
It’s more like $80 bc its Australian dollars but $80 is still crazy
@@glitt.r yeah I’m Australian lol
I unironically would love a video about pencils. Please Pinely give us the pencil vid!
The customer was swindled.
I think that the artist is remembering a real interaction she had with someone ELSE who came to her store, and probably shouldn’t have made her video, but the price of the mug is fine. Handmade art is always expensive and you have to make an income somehow. To me it doesn’t seem like soph had bad intentions either but she did make some offhand comments about it looking like a sippy cup etc which might have hurt the artist and caused an outsized reaction.
As we get older, sometimes our bodies kind of rebel in unexpected ways. Loss of feeling in hands is one of them. So that double handle does help a little bit with that one. I only know this from my diabetic grandmother (who passed away in 1991). All her cups and items had little handles like that. She even had plates with little handles that my sister made for our grandmother in pottery class in HS.
Mug creator is on a weird entitlement power trip
Hours and hours on pouring molds and basic glazing with elementary grade painting? On top of guilt tripping with the whole "small buiness" bs is just groooossssssss
just a basic misunderstanding of how slip casting pottery and glazing it works
This is about the 5th or 6th video from my subs that I've watched so far on this silly little drama and I still can't get enough of it.
As someone with severe misophonia, i 100% agree with the asmr thing they said at the beginning! i know it was a small thing said in the video but i just wanted to like chime in because asmr online is getting harder to avoid and is a big stressor for people like me (plenty of resources about what misophonia is online but its basically an EXTREME sensitivity and aversion to sounds, most commonly eating sounds and repetitive sounds like crunching, pen clicking, breathing sounds etc but like ask google for a better answer 😭)
ALSO I KNOW ITS A SMALL GROUP AFFECTED AND I CANT EXPECT ACCOMMODATIONS FROM EVERYONE FOR ONE NICHE THING I JUST WANTED TO LIKE SHARE AND MAYBE MAKE PEOPLE MORE AWARE AND STUFF ❤️
It's possible that the customer remembered a different vendor and it's possible the seller remembered a different customer interaction. I don't think either of them is lying but at least one of them is definitely confused about what happened during the purchase. But yeah, this could have easily been settled privately in DMs.
I dont agree with the business owner but... I admittedly dont have a ton of sympathy for someone who can "oopsies didnt realize the price uwu guess I will spend EIGHTY TWO DOLLARS!!?!" anyone who has that kind of money to just throw around bc of an awkward situation is,, insane. I need to budget my grocery store trips because often even $17 is an amount I cannot afford.
I don't agree with either but her saying "i didnt say anything bad" while calling a mug with two handles a sippy cup. When I saw it, I immediately recognized it as a disability independence mug. Small to be lighter, two handles for stability. That was icky.
I agree that this was a misunderstanding.
I've seen that strawberry design on Plumbella's walls.
So either one took from the other or they both took from the same source. I hope P took hers and not the other possibilities because selling a design that isn't yours is pretty fucked.
I sell art and just to mess with people at vendor shows I'll leave art staged in such a way its inconvenient and easy to knock over. It's funny when a tap knocks over a piece of art to the ground. That sound alone of merchandise hitting ground gets me everytime. Which is a good thing since I don't want anyone thinking they did anything wrong when it's just a prank. FYI my art is wood I reset the trap with the same bait. Can't do that with a mug.
The main thing with making art price wise is your hourly rate. It's hard to pull $30 plus an hour, so the price is probably fair for what it is.
I'll be honest, the original poster pissed me off, they didn't need to buy it nor did they need to conplain about buying it. I'd be devastated if someone made a video like that about a handmade object I made.
Sophie probably should not have bought the mug. However, she has a right to complain online about the size of the mug and the price it was sold for. Why did the mug creator step out of the shadows just to cause drama? If it's a mug for disabled people, why is it so expensive and why is it so small??? She really said I made this ultra expensive mug that's so small it's made for children, but I am gonna stir up drama with this person who never mentioned me so people feel bad for me because I'm a small business. I also have friends who are artists with small businesses, they would never go to this length of posting a video to guilt trip someone that purchased one of their items. Let's assume the mug actually took a lot of work even though there's people in the comments that know it's not as labor intensive as she suggests, what is the most any reasonable person would pay for a handmade mug? Idk, prolly like $50???? How does it make sense to overcharge for something supposedly made for disabled folks? We don't accept that when it comes to corporations, why would we accept that from small businesses??? Woe is me I'm just a poor small business owner, no one knows how hard it is for me to deal with customers that have perfectly reasonable complaints. People like this are so emotionally manipulative, they think because they are petite burgeoise that everyone should be on their side.
Yeah as somebody familiar with ceramics and clay, she uses pre bought molds to make her stuff and it's honestly obscene to charge as much as she does, she should have just left it alone and not identified herself because then at least you could kid yourself into thinking she actually used a pottery wheel or something which is MUCH harder and takes A LOT more skill than what she does imo, at least if it was made that way you could argue the years of skill it takes are what leads to the high price. You're totally right though about it being unfair for her to be charging that much for a mug supposedly meant for disabled people, it's fucked up.
@@MsAshleyMarie94i've actually been recommended a lot of her shorts on here and a lot of the moulds she has were thrifted
Man, people do not need to have opinions on accessibility aids that they do not need or even understand
@theMoporter Too expensive is a reasonable opinion to have even if you don't need it. I don't need an epipen, I don't have major allergies that could kill me like that, to say i can't criticize the price of epipens because I don't need them is crazy because you're putting ableism and advocating for people with disabilities in the same box. This kind of black and white thinking seems righteous until you consider the actual impacts on people. If you aren't advocating for poor disabled people, you aren't doing a good job at advocating for disabled people at all. Disabled people that happen to be rich do not need the kind of support that the majority of disabled people need because guess what, it's super expensive to have a chronic disability and that is one of the main hardships of being disabled
Wow so the "disability" mug is more expensive, interesting 🧐
i hate being that person but a handmade ceramic mug is a bit more difficult to make with 2 handles
@@CharlieSimmer27I think it's like 80$ converted to USD from Australian dollars still pretty expensive, I don't know how often her stuff gets damaged in the kiln, the price of the clay, molds, kiln time if she rents or bought one, etc.
actually the single handled version of the mug is the same price
edit because I just checked: the single handled mugs she sells are more expensive
@@kerri6011 i know stuff tends to be more expensive in australia because of importing, but if she’s trying to get rich quick by selling mugs i think she’s in the wrong business lol. ps in my original comment i was basically averaging between the usa conversion and the original aus price :)
@pluutonius then why was she saying it was more expensive because it's for someone with a disability. She never should have made that video, all of this could have been avoided
Thanks for mentioning the outro song name, its very good
I think she should have simply said “actually never mind sorry I didn’t notice the price” regardless of how things actually went. Idk if the price actually matters if she wasn’t being forced to buy it anyways? Girl just say no. (I have social anxiety too but if I did this I wouldn’t have complained on TikTok about it because I’d be so embarrassed)
This feels like such a non issue it’s crazy
1:00 as a girl who always wears acrylics I can confirm that is actually what we do constantly
Speak for yourself. Not all of us are obnoxious
@@Ithinkyousuckrealbad it’s not obnoxious 💀 don’t try to act like ur not like other girls
@@Ithinkyousuckrealbadpipe down. You don't have to be a dick
Why would you buy anything from an artisan market without checking the price first? Of course it’s gonna be expensive!
"That's not an action people do when they're not on camera" Incorrect. I tap on things because it calms me down.
pencil! pencil! pencil!
I have no social anxiety when it comes to money if they have some shit to say or give a sour look or whatever from me deciding not to buy something that just means I most likely made the right choice. people with good product and reasonable prices don’t do shit like that which is clearly trying to pressure a sale into happening or leave the customer uninformed.
Btw I see a lot of people saying this is a non issue and in this particular case I’d largely agree but this shit happens rampantly at art markets and other similar events. always ask for a price before you even take out a card or cash some of these people are not as kind as they seem. It’s legit it’s the same shit they do in New York with the fake monks, costumed panhandlers and “musicians”.
Also I have a bit of experience in pottery and it might’ve just been the room or the material her nails were made of but that ceramic material did not sound up to snuff when she was tapping it it sounded very delicate and brittle but past that there is not world where that small and basic of a piece is worth over 80 usd I thought it was pretty cute as well and honestly the dual handle thing is kinda neat but that thing is at max 20-35 usd based on your location and the fact that it’s a disabled folks product doesn’t make this more sympathetic if anything it’s worst like oh thanks for not trying to rip off everyone just the disabled population
My problem is that it's an accsesability item but it's being sold and an increadibly inaccessible price and is incredibly small. As someone who has to use those types of cups and mugs due to moter issues it doesn't do much good if i constantly have to ask people to refill it for me because it's empty in less then 2 sips
I cannot ever relate to someone who doesn't check the price before buying something. You deserve to be overcharged if you bave enough money to just... Not even care to ask for the price.
i hate the argument that her mugs aren’t ’really accessible’ because of the price. i could go online and order dirt cheap plastic cups, single or double handed, if i needed to. it’s not like she’s the only person in the world making 2 handed cups.
but i like cool looking, decorated, and handmade items too,
as many people do!
i, and most people, fully accept the fact it’s more expensive because of the extra time and effort put into the items. its a handmade artisan craft market, obviously the prices will be high, its 100% her fault for not checking prices (and how do you just ‘not notice’ how many handles the mug IN YOUR HAND has).
and people who are disabled deserve to have the option of nice products too, not just ‘useful’.
in recent years more of my family has struggled with illness and mobility and early on it becomes extremely clear that all of their everyday items become so sterile looking,
their belongings suddenly become a reflection of their medical state, all hard white plastic and metal and plain and strictly Useful,
it’s really a bummer when i remember how they decorated before.
it’s nice to see someone who keeps accessibly and visual design in mind and insists the two don’t have to be so strictly separated.
Frankly, I'm still reeling over someone just admitting they didn't even glance at an item before going to buy it and then complaining about it online.
It can be entirely reasonable to mistakenly buy something (if a bit too much "rich people problems" for my taste lmao. simply cannot imagine being that well off to not even try to check prices before buying!)
but it's just one of those fuck ups that nobody else has to know about y'know? Not everything needs to be uploaded on the internet.
While the initial tiktok doesn't seem aggressive at all and I think a lot of this is a game of telephone gone wrong, there was no way this wasn't going to start some stupid drama! That's simply not how the internet works!
Someone on twitter talked about making food for her neighbors once and people were fighting for WEEKS! Someone else said they enjoyed sitting in the garden with their partner and the twitter basically bullied them off the internet! Everything turns into a fight, so you really gotta be careful what you complain about.
Some big name influencer complaining, however gently, about the price and shape of a mug she bought by mistake was 10000% going to be the drama of the week!
@rat_in_a_bucket Maybe this is just my poor person's take, but I have NEVER bought anything without asking/confirming the price first.
@@rachelnotluf4585same I'd just simply ask what the price is, then decide after if I can afford it and or still want it for whatever price that's been said
This would have been solved had she not bought it. Why would you buy something you think is expensive just to complain about how you not only don't need it but that it was also expensive. Vendors can price their items whatever they want, it's up to you as the consumer to decide whether or not you're willing to pay those exorbitant prices. Regardless, the vendor took it way too personal despite not being mentioned as the vendor. It seems to me like neither of them know how to be adults 🤷
My favorite part is she made a mug for people with disabilities and priced it to where people can't afford it
Yeah like if you're living on $800 a month you're not gonna be dropping $80 on a mug
Her disability-friendly mugs are less expensive than her regular mugs
Honestly, I think people 100% could have known it was Shelbys mug. Two handles, small, really expensive, and it was a popular shop. It would be really obvious to anyone who went there or to anyone who's seen her shop. The mug is overpriced, though. It was the most expensive mug there and small compared to the others. However she can price it however she wants imo. The original girl fully could've just been like "Oh sorry I didn't realize the price." And I doubt Shelby would've been mad at her
$81 for hand finished, hand glazed porcelain cup that required a custom mold to be produced isn’t that crazy
Price is pretty typical for any given ceramic artist you'd find in a farmer's market or art walk in my area.
Sigh.. time to start a drama about pencils.. give me an hour or two
I've watched endless videos about this drama but i saw one from our man evil pinely and gave a sigh of contentment as i clicked
FR like at this point I’ve been made up my mind three videos ago but …. Here we go again 😂
How many videos can their possibly be about this incredibly petty mug drama? Is it really that interesting?
As someone who gets extremely uncomfortable every time they hear asmr noises, it disappoints me to see everything on social media becoming asmr-ified
Shelby has a pretty large following. She probably only made the response because someone recognized her mug and shared it with her. And shelby has gone through and shown her set up of her stall at the market, the response (as they had to create a queue for her since so many people came to the market specifically to see her stall) and the aftermath. Perhaps the other person wasn't paying attention to the pricing, and I really understand that people do not know why hand made items are so expensive (it isn't just the time and materials that go into it, but the cost of running a small business, all the failures as well as successes, and if they have employees working for them, it can be expensive. Big companies have machines, own the supply chains, and can make millions by selling things cheap because they sell so many. Supply and demand.) Hopefully it was just a misunderstanding.
Me the entire time the second lady's video was playing: "Wow this seems disingenuous as fuck and her vibes are atrocious."
PInely: "She seems so genuine."
Bruh
I don’t think the original girl was trying to start drama, but I think she was just venting. But like … I really don’t think we should be venting about regular inconveniences all over social media. Like, girl. Get some fucking friends.
On her website it says it takes her 4hrs to make these mugs. I’m pretty sure the glaze she uses is not opaque so she has to layer it. I can imagine that cup taking 30 mins to paint the first time and 15 to 20 each time after that. It’s actually so sad that people don’t think artists deserve minimum wage. Minimum wage in Aus $23.23 an hour. Electricity is one of the most expensive in the world. If people are willing to pay that price, let artists sell it for that price. Her mugs sell out, she has the demand. Also, this mug is the same price if not cheaper than her other mugs. If you don’t like it or can’t afford it, don’t buy it. It’s a luxury item, not a necessity.
Completely agree. I can’t afford her work… and that’s absolutely fine! Lots of people can’t afford my work. Artists are allowed to earn money.
"It's a luxury item, not a necessity" acutally the mugs with two handles are made for disabled people...