COMPARING HIGH VS. LOW SPIN RATE PITCHERS
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- Spin rate is one of the easiest pitch metrics out there to understand and successfully apply. Today, we are going to review what Spin Rate is by diving into two MLB pitchers on opposite ends of the spin rate spectrum. Check it out!
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Savant Pages:
Bauer’s Profile - baseballsavant...
Hendrick’s Profile - baseballsavant...
Spin Rate Leaderboard - baseballsavant...
Additional Reading:
Bless You Boys Article - www.blessyoubo...
PRP Baseball - www.prpbasebal....
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Pitch Design Tutorial - • IN-DEPTH PITCH DESIGN ...
Pitching Technology - • PLAYER DEVELOPMENT TOO...
Intro to Tunneling - • PITCH TUNNELING: Why H...
Spin Axis Explained - • SPIN AXIS EXPLAINED: A...
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Hendricks is the prime example of knowing what works for him. While Bauer’s great; he’s known for using a substance to get an incredible amount of spin on his pitches.
You’re not wrong! Incredible to see a guy like Hendricks embracing his stuff and seeing results with the best of them.
I liked this video so much that I subscribed to your channel. I'm working as a sidearm pitcher in njcaa and I've been under a lot of stress at low rpm because there was a stereotype that my low rpm was bad. After watching this video, I realized that it's more important where to throw it, even at low rpm. Thank you again!
So glad you found this helpful! It’s definitely a tough concept to grasp in the beginning, but low doesn’t equal bad! Just gotta know where to use your stuff. Thanks for the comment!
Thank you! This video is so understandable.
Really glad you enjoyed! Thanks for the comment!
Para los que no dominamos el ingles, que bueno sería traducir todos los vídeos al español.
Great video as always & love how simple that stat is to calculate. When it comes to sinkers & cutters would those count as fastballs or breaking balls? Sorry if that’s a dumb question I’m just curious for my own research. Thanks for all the videos you post & how you explain everything so easily.
Hey Alex! Thanks for the comment man, appreciate the kind words. Yes, Sinkers and Cutters fall into the FB range. No dumb questions around here, I'm sure many have thought the same but not gone around to comment it. Cheers!
If you can please do a video of Spin-Based movement and batter observed movement on savant, I’d love you. While I believe I understand it, I feel like further explanation would allow me to grasp these analytics more.
2:46 “WE nerds,”!!😁
Great info as always!!!! Love it. So what would be next to look at VB?
Thanks for the comment, Bo! Planning on going down the list of some of those older videos and upping them to what I’ve learned since. VB, Spin Axis, etc. all to come!
The evidence doesn't necessarily support the conclusion that High Spin Rate should be thrown up in the zone and Low Spin Rate should be low in the zone. Exit velocity and results of balls batted in play should be factored in when looking at these spins rates thrown high and low in the zone. The fact that either pitcher typically throws high or low isn't enough, nor is it enough if we compared their ERAs.
Completely agree, the point of these videos is to dive into what is going on - perhaps a video on the why would be beneficial in the future.
It has been found that higher spin rate pitchers generate more whiffs at the top of the zone, and lower spin rate pitchers generate more ground balls - in my example here I definitely could’ve taken that information a step further but thought it served the purpose for explaining the difference between the two.
Appreciate the comment!
So, spin Rats is the rate at which the ball spins? lol
Thanks, this is the first TH-cam baseball channel I ever learned anything from. In a way, you are proving the ancient adage about pitching - There are three aspects to a pitch: velocity, location, and movement; and velocity is the least important. Predictably, velocity is the the aspect sports journalists focus on. (He's throwing 98. Yeah, but it's 98 and straight).
Haha yes, spin rate measures how quickly the ball revolves around its axis. I’ve done a specific breakdown of it here:
m.th-cam.com/video/e31pYFWtDa8/w-d-xo.html
Glad you’ve enjoyed the channel! A lot more goes into pitching nowadays than just throwing harder - that’s for sure.
7:00 Bauer must be superhuman then if he increased his spin rate by 300 RPMs this year!
Thanks for the comment, Ryan - if anyone could figure out how to (legally) increase his spin rate it’d be the Bauer Boddy combo over in Cincinnati...
There’s also this... So who knows 🤷🏼♂️
www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-trends-trevor-bauers-sky-high-spin-rate-league-wide-offense-finally-wakes-up/amp/
@@SimpleSabermetrics I’m just kidding man lol...I think it’s pretty obvious that Bauer used illegal substances last season
The harder someone throws the more spin. Spin rate doesn’t mean the ball breaks more. Some guys throw so hard the break is minimal. Like someone putting, You can hit it through the break. There is a reason sliders and curveballs are under 90 mph. Quality strikes are at the knees. Hitters don’t see the ball good at that level and only see the top of the ball. Pitchers are throwing up in the zone more for another reason, Launch Angle.
You are correct that the harder someone throws, you typically see an correlation in increased spin rate as well. I’ve seen 92 MPH pitches with much more movement than 72 MPH pitches.
Most BB are more effective low in the zone, but with the data we have on pitchers and the way hitters have fared against similar pitches in the past we do see outliers nowadays more frequently (such as Giolito’s CH up).
Hitters reaction to pitchers getting better definitely also plays a role in the success pitchers have had.
Hope you enjoyed the video, thanks for the comment!
@@SimpleSabermetrics 92 is harder. I’m talking pros who can throw gas. some guys struggle when they throw everything in the same velo range. Good Change ups are tough to hit.
TY
Of course! Thanks for the comment.
Imagine if you have great control and have the capability to increase and decrease at will the spin rate. That in itself produce a variety of weapons and you not even tapping change up and breaking balls.
Great comparison! Kyle isn’t a cheater. Gotta respect the success he has had on the up and up. He may not be flashy like a lot of these guys. But he is a damn good pitcher and has phenomenal control. He doesn’t rely on foreign substances either. Not saying all these ultra high RPM guys do, but yeah... most of em do.
I’d like to ask would spin rate matter less when the fastball is faster? Let’s say we disregard the spin axis, would the height difference between a 1BU above average 92 mph four-seamer and an average 92 mph four-seamer be greater than that of the difference of the same pair but at 100 mph? Due to the shorter time the ball travel? If so, is that the effect of spin rate (the height difference) be greater when the velocity of the ball is slower?
Awesome video! Since it generally seems like there's a high correlation between Bauer Units and VAA, has anyone made a stat that combines both, and would it be useful?
Hey Noah - great question man. This isn’t something I’ve seen done, but you are correct that those two variables depict very similar stories.
I’ll be diving into this to see if there is any benefit, I’m sure there are some outliers that could benefit from some further evaluation.
Thanks for the comment!
That was Hendricks sinker not his fastball
Hey jake! For the heat maps, why did you use Bauer's 4-seam fastball but Hendrick's sinker? Just wondering. Great video as always!
Matthew! Great catch man, I was hoping someone would notice that. In this example I decided to use the pitch that each guy uses most frequently for our comparison.
When analyzing High Spin Rate and Low Spin Rate guys you’ll often find that High RPM guys tend to throw more 4S and Low RPM guys throw more 2S/Sinker.
This is because when using all 4 seams there is more points of contact on the ball to make it spin more, naturally high spin rate guys will use this to their advantage to get an extra bump.
Low spin rate guys, however, attempt to lower their spin by putting their fingers in between the seams (aka 2 Seams)
If you dive into this deeper, you’ll notice a common trend that High Spin guys throw more 4S and Lower Spin guys throw more 2S. Thanks for the comment!
Absolutely! It’s all a product of the subject we’re talking about in today’s video. Thanks, Shamit!
Also, since high spin rate is proportional to velocity, how are those 3 pitches you showed in the beginning going at the same speed if they have different spin rates? The higher spin rate baseball even jumped ahead of the other 2, covering more distance in the same time, by definition that's going faster. But you said they were being thrown at the same speed. Just trying to understand as some things are not so clear.
Hey, I’ll answer this one too😂 spin rate increases when velocity increases for a specific pitcher. Certain pitchers however are able to spin the ball better then others. So 3 guys can throw the same velocity but have different spin rates.(hopefully that makes sense) in short, spin rate and the ability to spin the ball is unique to individual pitchers. A fastball with a higher spin rate however travels more efficiently which means it will slow down less over the course of its travel then a fastball that starts at the same velocity but spins less. This is due to air resistance and how the spin directs it around the ball. Hopefully that clears it up😊
Where is DeGrom in all of this. No I do not want to hear he was checked twice and pass. Please show in depth videos on his spin rate. I've seen plenty of videos on current Ace pitchers , but nothing on him. Let's check him out closely. Thanks
I recently did a video analyzing Degrom’s current season which can be found here:
m.th-cam.com/video/45w7eN8mIIs/w-d-xo.html
As for his use of the “sticky stuff” his game-to-game average spin rate has not dropped as significantly as some of the bigger names being called out across the big leagues.
A slight dip around the time of the breakdown to me says he may have used something simple like sunscreen and rosin, but nothing to the effect of spider tack or pelican grip.
That being said, even with the slight dip he’s still only allowed 5 runs in total across his last 7 starts. If he was cheating, the change hasn’t been that notable. Thanks for the comment!
@@SimpleSabermetrics Thanks for your reply.
if higher spin rate equates to more movement on the ball how come the breaks are more obvious when you throw the ball slow, which means low spin rate? I've literally seen mlb pitchers say the break movement is less when you throw the ball harder/faster, and this is visually true, am I missing something?
Because gravity has more effect on a ball that has lower velocity.
At 6:22 you looked at his sinker, not the fastball
Correct! Good catch, in the video I decided to compare two players most thrown fastball variations. For Hendricks it did happen to be his sinker.
Often times, low spin rate pitchers end up throwing sinkers to minimizing the amount of VB to utilize their low spin rate to its fullest.
Thanks for the comment!
@@SimpleSabermetrics that makes a lot of sense to do, good point!
Can you touch on how axis and spin rate together effect where in the zone we should attack?
Also a guy like a Jordan Hicks high velo - low spin .. 2:00 axis. Gets tons of run and sink. What causes his low spin in your opinion?
Absolutely! I’ll be diving into a similar topic when today’s video goes live... but that’s definitely a point of confusion for some individuals so I’d love to expand more specifically on the topic in the future.
Thanks for the comment, Cody!
Take the sticky away from Bauer and Cole, and you have third rate pitchers.
We’re heading in that direction! Will be interesting to see how it plays out for both of them.
Cole has been pretty good even without it. His spin rates have dropped because he was using it but after a quick adjustment period he seems to be back to himself now.
SPIN RATES ABOUT TO DROOOOOOOP OFF!
Ha! You’re not wrong… 🤷🏼♂️
www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-foreign-substance-crack-down-trevor-bauer-gerrit-cole-show-reduced-spin-ex-mvp-calls-out-coincidence/amp/
Degrom has a below average spin rate and lives high in the zone…
But of course… he’s alien