Criticism of the YouTube Narcissism Channels | Are They Helping or Hurting?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 มิ.ย. 2024
- This video attempts to answer the question: Can I give my opinion on this trend we see with TH-cam where there a lot of channels out there about narcissistic abuse? These channels offer support for people that have been victims of narcissistic abuse of narcissistic awareness. These types of channels have somewhat formed into a small industry and some people that have written me have suggested that it's an epidemic similar to this idea that narcissism itself is an epidemic.
Perhaps these TH-cam channels are really a response to what's going on with personality changes and different levels of personality traits. In this video I offer a critical analysis of these channels in general, as opposed to one specific channel.
![ป่ะป๊าเลอา ชื่อ ??? [ดูคลิปเต็มหน้าช่อง] #Short | PANG ORNHIRA](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ssxX0VkJCTo/mqdefault.jpg)
I've also learned that narcissistic abuse can produce narcissistic traits as a defense mechanism in the victim, so now we have people who exhibit these behaviors who are being labeled narcissists, when they're actually victims who need healing. And, so... the "epidemic" continues...
This is true. Heinz Kohut is one of the earliest people in psychology who addresses this.
The same can be said for "true" narcissist as well. They were victims as well ( possible horrific childhood abuse) who became narcissistic as a coping mechanism. Narcissism is a maladaptive strategy the mind does to protect itself. Where is the line that dictates who deserves grace and sympathy vs who gets labeled a hopeless abuser?
Exactly...
@peapod6747 yeah but that coping method is seemingly only reasonable for people that lack have empathy. A person with empathy would eventually identify those narcissistic traits within themselves after enough people tell them they hurt others the same way someone hurt them.
Lets take the word “narcissistic” out of the equation and replace it with “toxic”. What “these channels” teach overwhelmingly is: self-respect, standards and boundaries. That’s what I learned. Unlike scientific channels that teach construct, and research the youtubers tell you that you don’t have to put up with the bad behavior, and disrespect. They really focus on developing your boundaries and self-love. That is very important. I agree the word narcissist is thrown around too casually, but they teach how to pay attention to red flags IN THE BEGINNING, and not gloss over shady behavior. I’ll give an example, who knew someone showering you with affection very early in the relationship is a red flag and not a fairytale? I must say I am a much better judge of character and human behavior because of their/your work. I also thank you for reigning in the sometime overzealousness of some youtubers. We all just want clarity.
sydney1west Great point. I was blindsided by the “love bombing” after 15 years of marriage where I didn’t feel appreciated it really got me. So when you’re pulled from the pedestal it’s alarming and confusing. Especially when you can’t really understand why or what went wrong to start with? Or it feels like such a minute trivial thing. In my case I kept trying to resolve and fight for the relationship after an unexpected discard. Kind of got caught in a cycle of doing it. Continually trying to prove my worth or something. Then when I finally said “Fine, have it your way, it’s over, I can’t keep going through this, my nerves are shot” She completely flipped out. She just expected me to keep after her despite all the bullshit. She would claim
That she never really meant it and that she always came to her senses. But, every time it felt very real and very final to me. There was so much drama in that relationship I became accustomed to it. Then when she ghosted me, there was this huge void where the drama used to be.
I can only now appreciate why people stay in relationships that seem completely toxic to the rest of us
Jake Pittman That’s where the TH-camrs come in, they provide validation of your experience, and teach you to build up self worth. Yes, they are not professionals, and can be wrong with terminologies, but they they get it. They point out toxic patterns.
Absolutely. Personally, I've moved away from the labelling, and I look at the behavior of the person. Do I recognize behavior that is shady, and then taking the appropriate action? IMO Clinicians maybe unwilling to label some of these ppl as evil, but Ted Bundy, Chris Watts etc I won't hesitate to call evil. The garden variety jerks/players may not be "evil", but they are wolves in sheep's clothing, and they know what they are doing. The TH-cam channels that have helped me developed do not preach hate, - "loving you should not be at the expense of me". Sometimes the knowledge of self-respect, standards, and boundaries is only gleaned after dealing with a toxic person, and you have to turn inward to heal. You develop these traits that if YOU had them sharpened from jump you would have recognized an unworkable situation very early, and bowed out saving yourself a lot of pain.Regarding the early affection or rushing intimacy. My rule is the majority of the time it is a red flag; however, they are instances where it is not. Therefore, slow down the pace of the other person, move slowly and see if they are still genuinely interested. Know their romantic history, it will tell you if you are billing yourself up to be the exception to THEIR rule.
Yes, some of the You Tube coaches are very helpful with identifying shady behaviors and helping you establish boundaries.
I agree...100!
Those narc videos literally saved my life. I had no idea what I was dealing with until I stumbled onto the subject of narcissistic abuse. I thank them one and all.
so true
@@fancyfree85991 lm
Me too
Same. I followed Dr Ramani mostly who is legit.
same here.
Your 5 Factor Model, "I am high enough in disagreeableness to apply scientific thinking across a wide variety of situations," is a hilarious way of describing yourself, and also very much appreciated in your personality. :) Thank you for your balanced perspective! Cheers!
So so interesting. I became almost addicted to watching narcissism channels after discovering what narcissism was and how a certain individual in my life has affected me. One after the other, I couldn't stop. I learned a lot, and I don't regret that. But there came a point where I realised that watching endless narcissism videos was actually making me feel worse, making me ruminate all the time and keeping me in a bad place, The videos trigger me and I almost feel like I'm exposing myself to narcissistic abuse by watching them. As you say, they resonate and that makes me relive my own horrible experiences again and again.
So I guess the upshot is, they were useful for a while, to gain knowledge and useful skills, but now I avoid them because they make me feel bad.
This is my opinion - I respect people who don't have the same experience.
Dr Grande. I am a Psychiatric Nurse. 30 yrs as an RN. Only 3 yrs in the Psychiatric area. I am quite critical when I find flaws in peoples' presentations. I won't name any names though part of me would really like to. You appear to be very knowledgeable about your subject matter, while being very careful about the complexities contained therein. I find your presentations to be well organized, clear, and very helpful. They've helped me in my own struggles and in helping others. Unfortunately, my father was extremely narcissistic during my formative years. He has improved immensely as he is 83 years old now, but he admits to nothing and I still wonder if he has any real empathy for anyone but himself, or if he has just gotten better at pretending to empathize with people as others do. He has never sought any help to change as far as I know. Just seems to have "mellowed" with age. What was the most helpful to me recently was to forgive him, and to realize that he must have gone through something really awful in his own upbringing that made him turn out that way. Anyways, thanks for all you do.
I began to understand my father in the way you have described. This stuff is generational from a familial perspective in my opinion. I wrote a song about it around the time my dad died.
soundcloud.com/user-847494429/saturns-lullaby
Saturn’s Lullaby
What is this message from the sun?
It’s there at birth and when death comes
What is this memory of love?
The feeling fits me like a glove
Loving Father, you and me
Can sing this lullaby and be
Like children we were meant to be
Like children we were meant to be
What is this message from the moon?
It’s there at birth and when death looms
What is this memory of love?
The feeling fits me like a glove
Loving Mother, you and me
Can sing this lullaby and be
Like children we were meant to be
Like children we were meant to be
What is this message from the sea?
It’s there for you, it’s there for me
What is this memory of love?
The feeling fits me like a glove
Loving Sister, you and me
Can sing this lullaby and be
Like children we were meant to be
Like children we were meant to be
Father, mother, sister we
Can sing this lullaby and be
Like children we were meant to be
Like children we were meant to be
Music and words: Geoff Smith, August 2018
I don't believe a narcissist has necessarily been traumatized himself. He could, quite the contrary, have been pampered and taught that he was special and should avoid all consequences by blaming or attacking others. Surely many spoiled children can hardly avoid growing up to be narcissistic adults.
@@dingfeldersmurfalot4560 surely that is also abuse of a child too? If you spoil your child and let them think that that is ok then you have failed as a parent have you not? just my opinion.
And sometimes that’s the best thing to do. Instead of analyzing the person to death.
They do mellow with age, don't they?
The most concise and eloquent explanation to date. Some practitioners on youtube seem to have no duty of care - It seems like a complete moral break not explaining these terms the way you have. Thank you so much! Sending lots of love from Australia 🌻
This is such good and needed video.People seem very confused with Narcistic Personality Disorder and those multiple channels that claim to help are actually causing this confusion and misinfirmation.Thank you.🌺
The ONLY thing in my life I’m 100% on, is that I’m leery of anyone who claims to know they’re right, they know some unverifiable truth, or that they’re 100% sure they have all the answers. That’s a whole lot of nope for meeee.
same. & u basically described religion lmao
When people use phrases like "objective reality", "obvious truth", or "indisputable scientific fact", these are red flags that they care more about being perceived as right than actually finding the truth.
@ching chong I don't need a test for that, people who don't want good things for you are sort of easy to identify if you're being honest and not ignoring red flags.
@k2 I didn't intentionally mean religion, but it is one of the things I actively avoid to keep myself safe from predatory behavior and people with bad boundaries.
I 100% know what you are talking about. I 100% know what’s going on. You can 100% trust me on that
“All those year of going to school and reading articles I guess means nothing!” You had me rolling on the floor with that comment! 😂
I laughed too. “Dr. Grande, you’re just too endearing.”
Island Girl Ruby makes you wonder about the hell Dr. Grande’s has been through 😂
You got in before me..... only a year late!
*_Putting this here because YT sh@d0w bans my top posts:_*
The world is run by narcissists (including TH-cam) so expect gaslighting from them. Eventually, they will call it 'pseudoscience' because so many narcissists will be offended that the Psychology profession is catching up to them.
@Trees Lakes College degrees don't mean anything, especially in a field like the one I retired from (IT). Too much to learn. 4 years is not enough!
More specifically, I'd love to hear what you think about Sam Vaknin!
God he rambled. Sam Vaknin.
Grifter. Untrustworthy. I know of him being diagnosed but the circumstances seemed...odd to me. Also, IF he really does have NPD, and I've only ever heard that's very rare, then I wouldn't trust a word and certainly nut his motivations.
@6GDC once you expand your mind to understand the use of metaphor and the need to filter for nuance. you'll be less frustrated with yourself for not being able to secure and retain any knowledge that Vaknin offers. He isn't for everyone, it seems. You get out of shit what you want outta shit or you aren't living right.
Sam Vaknin has helped me the most of all things related to narcissism I've ever heard or read. Many years (6) I was searching for the answer to what happens between me and my mother. Couldn't find it, I think most of the channels just describe narcissists and narcissism from the outside as to what narcissism looks like - not what happens between a narc and his/her victim on a deeper level, what the internal world of the narc seems like etc. For instance narcissistic abuse (not emotional abuse by narcissists, but narcissistic abuse), projective identification, the narcissist's dissociation... everything explained better in Vaknin's texts and podcasts than anywhere. I really don't care if Sam Vaknin is a narcissist or not. Whatever. He understands and explains narcissism on a way deeper level than anyone.
I guess if you're high on Openness in Big 5 or high in Intuition in MBTI you will greatly enjoy and benefit from Vaknin's way of explaining things. But I guess if you're a sensor or low in Openness that might not be the case. I would suggest Vaknin appeals to more cultivated, intuitive, philosophical and holistic types. Whereas for example Ramani Durvasula maybe appeals to more practical, sensor type of persons. As a highly intuitive and cultivated personality myself, I prefer Vaknin.
@@PhoenixProdLLC I would trust much of his words. But there is a strange mystery to it because he is the one telling you. Perhaps that's why he does it, to keep you guessing.
“Hate narcissists enough so they could recover” I would argue the hate doesn’t help you recover. It helps you to leave, to ignore and to detach. This detachment ultimately leads to recovery. This is my personal experience.
To begin with but if you hold on to the hate it'll hold you back and make you worse than the thing you're hating.
Hate isn't healthy, but in no way should anyone be encouraged or guilted into empathizing with a narcissist. Narc channels are good for education AND because hearing someone else concisely articulate what you can't put into words, describing situations you are in yourself, helps you understand your situation and the person who hurting you. This helps you accept that the person is not going to ever change or feel remorse. And instead of expecting those things, you'll finally stop expecting anything of them, because something is irreversibly warped in their brain.
And at that point, a weight will be lifted from your chest. You'll You'll able to let go of the anger and hate, because you'll see getting upset at them is pointless.. which then opens up your focus, to be able to work on your own life.. separate from them.
@@llIlIlllII Yes! This is the bottom-line. TO STOP WASTING YOUR TIME!!!
Your videos and Dr. Les Carter’s videos are my favorite behavior sites, you are both calm, open minded, informed, and objective. There might be others, but I’m sticking with you both.
Terry Wise, a family therapist who also has a TH-cam channel, has helped me enormously as well.
Yes! Dr. Les Carter. Jessica Jones, Dr. Saad, Richard Grannon, the Little Shaman, Sam Vaknin, ...many others. If one is not content to accept superficial characterization and/or wallow in victimhood they point the way forward. Many people out here can't afford to move out to escape abuse let alone professional counseling. It can be of life or death importance.
@@lisbethbird8268
Dr. LES CARTER and Dr. ABDUL SAAD are clinicians with a calm and consistent approach. Very professional and responsible people.
RICHARD GRANNON has very little credentials and is very erratic and inconsistent.
He is also very unprofessional and irresponsible.
Let's agree to disagree. I follow everything Les Carter says and appreciate him. Abdul Saad speaks with my soul and I love that guy because he is real and compassionate and brilliant. Maybe it's time to let go the know it all. Richie is a dear friend who requires no defense. Pay attention.
@@lisbethbird8268
I am paying attention.
Your "dear friend" is a charlatan, a bully and a petty individual.
If I knew it all I wouldn't be here.
However, I know enough to warn others.
Maybe it is you that needs to pay attention.
Many of these content creators are also survivors of abuse. They may not be as clinical as you like. They serve as support groups. I think there are more positive outcome of these channels than negative. However I understand your concern, personal accountability is essential.
It’s like AA for sufferers of Narc abuse!
i think they know more than dr grande. experience triumphs text book smarts any day of the week an scientific literature is so lacking. even medical knowledge its bias and controlled by whoever funds it for thier profit. most of these channels have both experince and some scientific knowledge. they had to have other refernces confirm their experneices before going ahead and making a channel.
@@1111111111202 as both a survivor of narc abuse and someone who did my psych grad work, it isn't one or the other. And I don't simply mean people like me - the science comes from speaking to the survivors, from looking at the actual relationships.
Each of us has, at absolute worst, survived a handful of abusive relationships. Science has been able to document and study thousands, through the lens of how the human psyche works in times of prolonged stress, etc.
I understand why people are so defensive of their channels, and like Dr. Grande I don't think they are worthless. But they can't replace science. If they think they can that is pure hubris.
@@1111111111202 "experience triumphs text book smarts" Wow, you don't even know what's wrong with that statement, do ya? You assume much, which is wrong. For one, the ONLY value that experience has is that you learn something from it. Alot of people will experience all kinds of stuff, but won't learn a darn thing. Then you assume that "textbook smarts" don't also have experiences. Most do. Alot more experience than the "experience " person. Consider this: The "experience" person has one experience. That does NOT make them an expert. But a "textbook smart" has many many of those experiences, so who's better?
@@cchgn it means understanding through experience and first hand observation is much more advantageous than reading a book or analyzing data on paper. which part did you not get?
I agree. I have seen a few of these “how to spot a narcissist” videos. You could literally apply the “signs” they give to anyone if you are the one assigning the motives for actions. Example: “a narcissist will look around or seem disinterested when you are talking to them.” Yeah, and so will every other person who is genuinely not interested in what you are saying, doesn’t like you, or has something on their mind. Duh. How convenient for those that listen to these “experts.” They need change or improve nothing about themselves, because all problems are caused by this”narcissist.” No need to find a subject of conversation that is mutually interesting, improve a relationship, or show any concern about what might be troubling the other person.
LOL this is so true 😂
Amen.
Most of the people making those videos are self-important and vain.
They're too simplistic, people in general aren't black and white
You don't assume one is a narcissist after displaying one of the listed behaviors. Someone looking around not paying attention? Ok maybe they aren't interested, but when they do that in combination with 10 other things on the list, well then... That's how symptom lists work. Just like if you were sick, you wouldn't look up one symptom and assume you have the first thing that pops up on. You put it into context with other symptoms. Come on now.
Don't forget.mental illnesses etc.
I fear some of the "victims", TH-camrs behind these channels, may be the Narcissist themselves, smearing their former partners on a public forum. Granted they are helpful in dealing with narcissists, I'm not sure that I can trust their true intentions...further banking on the pain and misery of their former supply.
Exactly
I think their tips on spotting narcissists (not that the main points aren't spot on) seem to be a bit more watered down than what they could be, like mentioning the esoteric energy vampirism aspect of it, but that could just be genuine unknown
I get the same feeling, especially from many commenters on other videos. Theres a whole host of vindictive covert female narcs, who had a falling out with an overt boyfriend or spouse
Grannon.
YESSSSS like narcologggy
As a very small creator of a channel that focuses on narcissism and other cluster b personality disorders, I agree wholeheartedly with your criticisms. Channels that deliberately state "How to spot a narcissist" remind me of the videos that state "top 20 interesting things about psychopaths" it's not to help, it's for views. I think our community should focus on how to spot boundary-breaking behavior/ manipulativeness and restoring proper boundaries after trauma (as an overview). I also think we can have more descriptive videos that discuss something specific about the disorder. I'm hoping my content is not pseudoscience to many. I've tried to not come across in that manner.
I can deeply relate with those who've experienced psychological abuse. I hope viewers of these channels understand that narcissism exists on a continuum. It is a scale of severity. Everyone has some traits.
I'm glad you appreciate the use of scholarly articles. I am worried now that I appeal to paranoia. I will work on my content and hopefully create scientifically approved content.
Lastly, I want to say thank you for your indepth criticism. Viewers needed to see this.
Hope great self insight. Well said
Nice selfpromotion👍
How to spot a narcissist? Not realistic in practical terms. IE, since the narc shape-shifts into our ideal mate, how can we spot them? To protect ourselves, we need to define our boundaries and stick to them. That may lead to dumping someone who may not be machiavellian or disingenuous, like a narc. But this isn't a perfect science.
A disturbing trend I've noticed on some of those channels is that they blend scientific-sounding jargon into their presentations, such as terms like 'quantum field' or 'quantum energy.' It's quackery and misleading. It's likely that some of them may have been listening to Deepak Chopra who is notorious for speaking in this manner.
Lol, I know exactly who you're talking about. I think this person has a lot of insight into growth and healing after abusive relationships, but the minute I started hearing that "quantum upleveling", I-believe-the-book-The-Secret-is-the-answer-to-life stuff, my brain powered down and I started watching Dr. Grande 😂
Not necessarily. If their intent is to be helpful, they should inform those looking for help that they do not hold a doctorate. Freedom of choice.
I don't know much about Deepak Choprah be I do know people like that.
@Metanoia You sound like a very religious person because you used the term 'satanism'. Please keep in mind that religion itself is quackery. No proof of a god anywhere to be found.
There is no need for any of this, whether religion or New Age, in therapy. It is rather the opposite of science. Psychology can explain so much.
@Metanoia I completely agree. My background is in psychology, and I got involved in hypnosis (even got certified as a hypnotherapist) before I became aware that this basically a shamanic practice that has been introduced into the field of psychology under the guise of being purely "scientific" in nature and un-related to spirituality. It is occult, and I had to back out of it.
I watch you and Dr. Les Carter, I want professional opinion, not just anyone.
I found out about NPD from Quora, not TH-cam, trying to make sense of my pattern of attracting coverts. I got turned off by the attitude of a lot of the answers, so started looking on TH-cam for actual real doctors like you and Dr. Les. I didn't want to whine and moan forever, I wanted to learn about NPD and other behavior disorders, how to heal myself, and how to avoid hurtful individuals with behavioral disorders in my romantic future. For me at least, going on and on ad nauseam about how awful the narc is just seems like ripping the scab off and keeping on letting yourself bleed. Don't get me wrong, some people are really trying to help, but demonizing anyone is really distasteful to me. It smacks of the "us vs. them" attitude that I have had to live in here in the Deep South of the US, and I have been on the attacked end of things here a lot because I support the "silly notion" that everyone is equal under law and my friends are a mix of all genders, ethnicities, and faiths. I strive to understand, not condemn, and learn from my mistakes to be a better person. And you and Dr. Carter are doing so, so I know that you make a difference, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
The "holy trinity" of content creators on the subject, in my opinion,also have PhDs are:
Dr. Grande
Dr. Les Carter
Dr. Ramani
I have watched other channels and some are very good but i prefer to stick with the experts and these 3,to me, are consistent in their info.
I also agree with the reckless use of the word "narcissism."
Abundant takeaways from all 3 of the abovementioned content providers and and all 3 seem to do alit of prep for each video. Real labors of love! Im grateful for all the good stuff! Thanks
Oh, one other thing interesting Dr. Grande mentions his belief that narcissists can recover. not to step on anybody's toes but there is a video from dr. Carter with his brother who is also a psychologist and works people in prison and he talks about witnessing recovery under such circumstances
I agreed three doctors you show there. But I think I actually it's better overdiagnosing these things than denying it like I used to. I've gone from being too flexible to maybe hair-trigger nexting.... and actually, I still give a few chances of red flags and orange flags before I finally hit the hair trigger and blow their heads off, so to speak. I'd rather be an asshole than a dumbass!
@@AZDC99 add Lisa Romano a life coach. Is she spot on. Has some stories from the battlefield! So well studied in this topic that I am impacted and changed.
Stay Well y'all
@@AZDC99 Very nicely put! That's true, not least because an asshole tends to get much more respect than a dumbass. Sometimes playing it down is worse and more dangerous than overdoing it...
@@LOKI77able That last sentence AFTER THE FINAL COMMA on original comment of mine is not mine. It's from a friend who was a fellow scapegoat with his family of origin too. This is from when I was financially disassociating from the whole dysfunctional mess in 2017.
It allowed me to rejoice instead of fearing being the so-called "bad" guy. It becomes a fight or flight by no choice of your own, by the way.
I just don't WORRY about not grey-rocking it any longer....instead I'll fearlessly be DARVOed into REACTIVE ABUSE with zero shame any longer. I'm no longer letting them rent space by head like THAT like I used.
The discards are happening fast and thank GOD. Even if I am unfairly on the receiving end!
The toxic clutter is being cleansed from my life once and for all that I'm not even really taking the bait (AKA blowing up about it) anymore. But if I do here and there, I don't care, I'm gone anyhow
Yes to these three you named!!! I also watch Patrick Trahan. I keep it to just those
I think that this is an interesting topic and I also regard your channel as balanced, dispassionate and informative but I think that you might be falling foul (if only slightly) of an internal bias of your own.
You are correct in what you say about the vast array of ‘narcissistic abuse’ channels but, equally, there is also a lack of knowledge within psychiatric services generally. I am speaking now for the UK where I live and work as an Independent Mental Health Advocate. I am not a clinician but I have been working for many years with people who are compulsorily detained under the Mental Health Act. During this time, I have supported many people who have a primary or secondary personality disorder diagnoses.
The particular NHS Trust I work for provides very little specialist provision for personality disordered patients (or trauma focussed diagnoses, for that matter) which is problematic. As a consequence, some psychiatrists and mental health practitioners I work with display a worrying lack of understanding in this area and, at times, reveal a professional ignorance bordering on contempt. So, I can really understand how people might turn to the Internet in an attempt to ascertain what is happening to them.
Most of the people I work with have experienced many dysfunctional childhoods and social deprivation growing up and they are not in a position to pay for even low-cost psychotherapy. Equally, if money is available for private talking therapy, one cannot know whether the therapist is experienced in supporting people with a personality disorder. NHS funding for Dialectical Behavioural Therapy is also not accessible to any of my clients with Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder.
Ironically, three years ago, I became involved with someone who I “believe” has a significant psychopathology. Before we separated, I suspected that my partner was personality disordered but I wasn’t fully aware of the extent of the abuse and coercive control I had experienced until the relationship ended. I think that I didn’t want to condemn her or all the clients I had supported historically and so I was lost to denial and cognitive dissonance. When the relationship ended, however, I was mightily grateful for some of the ‘you-tube’ sites because professionals, friends and peers simply did not understand.
I remain passionate about supporting people with a personality disorder diagnosis but, equally, I am passionate about ensuring that victims of psychological and physical abuse receive appropriate treatment. I discovered, to my dismay, that there was very little out there within the professional field to help me sufficiently. So, not all qualified mental health practitioners or therapists have the answers. The impact of callous behaviour is, without doubt, a burgeoning concern for all of us professional or layperson.
Geoff Smith I agree. I am 60 and there was little help for victims of covert abuse back in the day. But there was a LOT of focus on understanding and compromising with the abuser. Imo the increasing number of You Tube channels that focus on healing and provide clarity and understanding of covert abuse is a step in the right direction.
To believe in your own opinion needs a certain, but small, amount of biasness to have true conviction in your beliefs. Also i think that to be a part of human nature. But if one takes a criticism with too much personal offense and rigidness, then that person has become close minded because no one's opinion is set in stone, thank God for that.
Yes. And that's why I am here, too. My Psychiatric proscriber was totally unprofessional in what she did to me. Not my opinion. It's a FACT.
Too true
Sometimes mental health providers actually add to the problems the partner of the personality disordered person is experiencing.
Yes support, healing....helping me to move on. On a purely personal experience. The channels all mention the behavioral patterns of a narccisscist. This helped me to see it and understand why my relationship didn't/couldn't work. On my own 11 years later, I am just beginning to heal from a lifetime of abuse.
After I kept going through the same thing over and over again I wanted to seek help to see what was wrong with me. I came across these channels regarding narcissism and learned a lot. Though I can't diagnose these person I can at least identify patterns in behavior that help me to avoid people who show signs of a personality disorder.
“On TH-cam, people will find what they want to find.” - Dr. Grande 💐🙏🏻 Thank you!
Very good video Dr Grande. I agree with your analysis and opinion. My healing journey started when I stopped watching videos about narcissism which increased my anger and hate. I consulted a therapist to help me to release those negative emotions and to take responsibility for what happened and to seek acceptance and forgiveness for both, me and the toxic people in my life.
I can attest to the concept of narcissistic abuse I've been with a narcissist for 21 years and I only discovered the problem 2 years ago. I could tell you it's the worst type of abuse one can endure. I believe the main reason is because it goes from good to bad and back and forth and there is so much confusion that most people lose themselves and end up with feelings of worthlessness and loss of direction. Physical abuse and people they're just abusive all the time are easy or I should say easier to get over because it's it's clear that they're bad. Someone doesn't question themselves about what part they play like abuse from a narcissist.
Thanks for your topics and informative videos.
Right Mike, you lose yourself. In my own situation, I stopped trying to understand the other person. Let his mother understand him.
Physical abuse is easy to get over...? What?!? I was emotionally abused throughout my childhood, physically abused in a romantic relationship and now back to emotionally abused by my husband and that is the most ridiculous statement I’ve ever heard. Abuse is abuse and none of it is easy
Some abuse is excused? I get it, I have been there, and I need to walk away.
It's like emotional whiplash. What is this day going to bring?
@@ashmarie5424 Most people don't seem to understand that physical abuse is both physical abuse and mental abuse. I was mentally and physically abused as a child. Neither are easy to get over but with physical abuse, you not only have physical pain but also mental pain.
Evil and never gonna change is false. I was diagnosed with npd and learned how to overcome many of my symptoms. I learned empathy and humbled myself and saw how my behaviour effected others and am still in process of change. I was told by my therapist rejection was the root of my npd as i was adopted as a baby. People say everyone with npd have no feelings which is totally false i was able to feel rejection for starters which was very painful the npd was a mask to cover my pain.
Well done you.
Blessings.
Well...our culture isn't necessarily models for antinarcissm. We'll let someone suffer in a factory2 a million miles away so we can have the same phone with a different that takes a nicer picture of us on instagram.
It's a shame "evil" and "never gonna change" is more seductive to the public and profitable for these channels. Ordinary people seem to need to hate something.
Dr. Grande, your videos have helped me tremendously. I realised I was no alone. I ran away from my narcissistic ex-husband, and took our 4 little kids with me. Gave him a chance to talk and seek treatment and help, but all was in vain. Then I pressed charges for domestic violence and abuse against me and 4 kids, he got convicted. I filed for divorce. He took the house, all money, manipulated my boss to get me fired. I ended up homeless, jobless, broken, so so so broken in my heart, with 4 kids to take care of. I just can't understand HOW in the world I was responsible for what happened. I tried it all, being invisible, doing all he demanded, walking on eggshells, he would still spit on me and beat the hell out of me, sometimes daily. I just don't understand, dr. Grande :(
You are not to blame. That whole idea of it takes two flies out the window when you are being played by a malignant narcissist. You are a survivor and you had the courage and conviction to leave. That also makes you a good mother.
I find them to be more helpful than some of the actual clinicians who speak on narcissism (excluding Dr. Ramani Durvasula). In fact, there is more information on here about narcissism than university teaches most psych students in school.
However, I agree with the analysis that these channels can keep the victims stuck, because I found that to be the case for myself. I had to stop watching them as much because it kept me in a circle of awareness. In any case, your criticisms are definitely valid here from a scientific perspective.
Definitely. I watch those kind of channels more now than I do the narc channels. I found out about my codependency because of both the narc channels and the other channels that speak on actually healing from narcissistic abuse. I'm grateful for them all, to be honest. However, I can also appreciate the ones who don't speak strictly from a clinical perspective because it's much more relatable to those who are trying to gain information about the insanity that has become their lives, as a result of trying to love narcissistic individuals. @@dr.helgamiehlepag5888
The narc channels who help people who are just figuring out what's going on stay the same because (aside from the youtuber having a specific strength) there are always new people learning about narcissism. Criticizing these channels for staying on the same topic would be like criticizing Sesame Street for not transforming into an adult show after 20 years. I watched those channels addictively for a year or so, then moved on for the most part. I don't consider it as having to stop watching them, but more as graduating from them. The really good ones are valuable to the newcomers and I hope we'll always have them.
Dr. Ramani seriously saved my life 🙏🙏🙏❤
I agree. There's a point at which you move on from the narc videos because you are sick of thinking about your narc experience, sick of hearing the same old, and sick of all things narc. It is like graduating. Some of the you tube channels really do focus on moving on.
@@catspajamas2961 perfect description. Perfect.
When I have requested Sindelle (The Little Shaman) provide scholarly articles, she has...and I find her podcasts to be a fresh look at this beleaguered topic (she doesn't coddle victims but inspires us to take personal responsibility, she actually covers where the thought patterns and behavior comes from, occasionally mentions developmentally appropriate narcissism and basic survival/self-preservation instincts as benign narcissism present in everybody, and states the low likelihood or high difficulty of recovering from narcissism as personal pessimism but that the possibility and mechanisms aren't NOT there)-and puts it all most articulately.
Unfortunately, very frustratingly, I can't formally cite Sin's podcasts because scholarly articles ARE only provided by request, and were deleted in comment replies when TH-cam moderators took down the old channel for "violent content" that didn't exist there and maybe sponsorship plugs that were "spam". I do still highly recommend the podcast episodes to people that want to generally make some just-under-the-surface sense of it all.
I appreciate Kris Godinez for diligently specifying MALIGNANT narcissism, and testifying to one low-spectrum narcissist client in ten years of experience that worked on recovering. (But most of her videos are really, really really long, is one major downside for me.)
But for something I evaluate as substantial information about narcissism, it's Dr. Ramini Durvasula and Dr. Grande.
Sister Sindelle is rock solid authentic. She does not mince words or play to trending buzzword pop psyche memes. She has helped me tremendously. I make note now of the others you mention.
I agree wholeheartedly.
Dr ramani is so osychopathic and self obsessed , her info is very good i. The surface, but scratch it just a little bit...blimey..
Thats a monster in there...
Hi Dr Grande. My name is Freedom Vivian I have a channel called Narc Free Formula. I am a peer educator with over a decade working in Community Health Sector. I am deeply concerned about some of the channels that advertise as coaches but aren't qualified or experienced. They are being run by people who are committing fraud and victimizing clients. I have even heard of one who threatened his client with exposure if she tried to out his ghosting and theft.
Ive been called a narcisist more times than I can count. Videos like the ones you talk about here are part of the reason why ive felt invalidated and gaslighted. In reality I have more in common with BPD and PPD as well as ADHD (the adhd is my official diagnosis) but due to a very unique situation i am unable to get proper help and diagnosis for the god knows how many issues i struggle with, and that also makes uneducated people assume im a narcisist
All cluster b personalities can be regulated, some may take a permanent therapy but it is not a life sentence.
Was it your eyebrows that made them call you a narcissist? I heard you can tell a narcissist by their eyebrows.
Google it.
I'm so glad you made a video on this. Something about those channels feels off to me. I got really sucked into those videos when I was going through an unhealthy relationship and because I was in such a vulnerable state the videos hooked me in and I began thinking, "omg he's a narcissist, he does this he does that..." and I was sucked into all the lingo they use. Mind you, this isn't to say this person wasn't narcissistic; it's just to say that defining him as such and associating him with all this very unscientific lingo - dedicated toward vulnerable people, mind you - didn't help in the end and even distracted a tiny bit from the work I was doing in therapy. In reality these content creators have no credentials to be displaying such passionate alignment with this one issue / label. Sometimes they'll refer to "the other cluster b disorders" but that comes out of nowhere and with no explanation. Thank you so much for giving words to that uneasiness I was feeling. It isn't to say narcissism isn't real but you're right, according to them it seems like benefit of the doubt is a moot concept. And the way say "My narc did this, what did your narc do" makes it feel kind of brainwashy. Hmm. Yeah, thanks for this.
Many people can't afford therapy and these channels are a lifeline.
@@mlmallory2780 I get it, and I think there IS a helpful component to the channels, but I do have some concerns. Regardless, I'm glad people are feeling helped. And affording therapy is a whole other can of worms that I wish could be different!
I also noticed that these videos refer to people as "my narc". This is weird to me, because this isn't how you should refer to someone, especially someone you need to cut out of your life. Its almost as if they imply that they own their narc, or that their narc owns them. Its weird.
@@Jen18812 Agree, I've had terrible experiences with those that I sought help from, not going down that road again.
@@ryanpayne6231 Agree, there seems to be a lack of agency with that. People with narcs in their lives are drawing them in somehow and need to see themselves separate and in a realistic light.
I think these channels are mostly helpful. Many people are abused by narcissists and psychopaths. People often don't understand these disorders and the devastation that they cause. I think it is a good thing that this disorder is becoming more known by the average person and these channels are a big part of this. Whether the people running these channels are "qualified" or not does not matter to me as long as the information is good quality. Many of these people have suffered narcissistic abuse so often have a better understanding than a qualified clinician. I have heard it said that narcissism is the disorder of our time. I agree. We all need to know what narcissistic abuse is whether we are victims or onlookers. We all need to know what these people are capable of in personal lives and workplaces. A while back I put a few articles on my Facebook page. The interest in this was overwhelming.
The more information that is out there the better.
Amen.
I agree.
The many problem for me with these channels is that 1) alot of their information isn't good quality or balanced 2) much of it is name calling, demonization etc without any sort of balance (Dr Grande is good for this in his videos) 3) The information that is being given often gives a false representation of the disorders 4) People are diagnosing their partners/family members etc without actual medical confirmation.
Yeah, the more the better. Maybe. But the big picture doesn’t mean it’s good or right to promote hate or victimhood.
Survivors of narcissistic abuse are victims and they will justifiably feel like victims, for a while at least. But the sooner they move beyond that the better.
And though it would be normal to “hate” the abuser for a time, the faster one can leave the hate behind the faster one can build character and relationships that are healthy. And good character and healthy relationships are the best defense against future narcissists.
@@michaelharritt4867 I just read your comment and want to mention that I believe that main cause of so-called mental illnesses is childhood trauma, including physical and sexual abuse.
I could write a book about my horrendous childhood in New Zealand in the 60s and 70s and it's understandable that children can develop maldaptive ways of coping in order to survive situations they're not meant to be in, but their parents didn't have a choice either. 😥
i have been under care of mental health for over 8 years. Got alot of therapies and medication that did nothing except made me fat or trembling. When i was about to give up i found out about covert narcissism from youtube. This really made the difference into understanding whats wrong with me. I wish i had seen it al earlier especially your channel. I am sure there are situations where the information isnt used wisely and people get hurt but in general i would say you are doing excellent work. I really owe you a great deal, more even then all the therapist i had in the last years. So yeah, cant speak for all the channels but this one rocks.
You, Doctor Ramani (licensed psychologist) and Doctor Tracey Marks (psychiatrist) are the only channels I feel comfortable with hearing information about this topic. I find myself getting confused and mixed up with some of the other channels.
I just closed out of one after the person began discussing Zen Buddhism and Freud. Nothing against these things but it felt like the person just mentioned them to show off how knowledgeable they are rather than it adding to the topic.
Thank you for producing content that is clear and concise, Doctor Grande.
Slightly off-topic but I worked as a correctional officer and found many of my coworkers were sociopaths. I learned real quick to demonstrate trustworthiness and to trust them. Prisoners do not attack sociopaths because the retribution does not end.
It is common among soldiers also.
This comment doesn't make sense. How exactly did it benefit you to place trust in a sociopath?
@@AI-ch3if It has been observed that in these groups, for instance the police, that they are an "if your face fits" subculture. Police say if you go against "the code" then when you are next in serious trouble on a call out, you will get no, or a lethally delayed, back up.
Prisons are also understaffed, if you appear to be unimaginative, incurious, on narrative, and keep your nose clean, that is mind your own business and turn a blind eye, and appear to affirm group mores, then in situations where sociopaths work together (rather than mostly selfishly) us versus them situations, again, support won't be either non existent or delayed.
The "trust" is based on the ability to method act the role? Trust debased to predicability, less prosaically.
I still prefer his answer tho.
It's on the nose. Haha
sociopathy and narcissism are going to be prevalent in any area of work that involves authority over others.
@@JB-pk4ck Perhaps certain jobs should have a measuring scale focused the "low end" vunerabilty of the clients, rather than the "high end" adaptation of the clients as in prisons, that would be, the ability to take group action (gangs). The bigger the power gradient and the more disempowered the vunerable, the more vetting of staff psychologically, and independent auditing should take place.
As a person who is tuned in to narcissism related channels as well as Dr. Grande, I found this to be a super interesting crossover. It's refreshing to hear about the topic from someone who is being rational, scientific and concise. Thank you again, Dr. Grande! ❤
Some channels have certainly helped me understand NPD more, though the journey for understanding continues. Self-proclaimed narcs like Sam Vaknin and HG Tudor have helped a lot, as their knowledge on the subject is not only observational but experiential. Combined with info from other channels (CrazyNarcissistXGirlfriend, Assct Direct, Richard Grannon, etc) I have developed an amalgamation of knowledge about narcissism. I think it's key to listen to several perspectives and develop an overall comprehension.
Let's all learn together!
You're welcome!
@@DrGrande I wonder if you have an outlook on Sam Vaknin in particular.
I had never experienced a relationship with a narcissist. After it is ended, I was left confused and had no idea what happened. I was not myself-- felt depressed, sad, angry and a bit traumatized. I remember trying to get an appointment with a psychologist. I tried to make an appointment and explained to them what had happened and not one of them would schedule me in..they were all booked! How is this possible in the city of Los Angeles? So, I started to research and found TH-cam channels on narcissistic abuse.....read comments and saw that I was not alone. These channels helped me identify what I was going through and the type of person I was dealing with. Everything they said would happen , eventually did....the cycle of abuse. I had major trauma bond and was addicted to my ex. I had never experienced this in my 44 years of life.
I find that even when I don't agree with you, that your critiques are very fair. You do a great job at presenting both sides of the argument. That being said, it's so true, narcissists CAN get better-my siblings and I have, through professional counseling, learned to set strong boundaries with our mother, who is a vulnerable narcissist/psychopath, and her behavior towards us as well as her overall demeanor has greatly improved. She now demonstrates much gratitude and appreciation, something she has NEVER done before. Where there is life, there is hope. Cheers from New Mexico USA!
A lot of eating disorder recovery youtube creators, who do not have any professional credentials or experiences, act like they know everything there is to know about eating disorders and how to stop them. Most videos seem to copy each other as well. It is irritating to me, lol. Great video! Also, your channel is helpful to me as a psychology student because I can get more information on topics I learn in my classes. Thank you!
Maybe you can specialized on psychology for you tubers
18:40 if people watch these channels repeatedly and don't seek to improve their mental health symptoms, there is a danger you say. There is also a danger that the person goes to a mental health clinician who spends months years trying to improve that person's outlook when really the solution is to get away from the abuser. Of course then the person's mental health symptoms which is usually c-ptsd or codependent based can be worked on but not until the person gets away from the abuser. much time can be wasted. And that's why I think these channels are very very helpful.
Right. Well, I was 'stuck' with incompetent clinicians :)
Yes, someone else pointed out that they went to a couple of different therapists over the years, who never accurately diagnosed the partner and weren't much help. Next the guy viewed a couple of videos and clearly was able to put the pieces together, which helped him to be able to move on with his life and come to healing faster. If you happen on a good therapist, that's one thing. But some are really not vey good at all. Will keep stringing you along to keep the business up and running. There are ethical and unethical people, and competent and incompetent people in all professions, including the medical field.
I ran into the worst narcissist of my life who was a psychiatrist. I no longer trust this profession or mental health professions blindly when they claim "truth". There is no need to criticize the other channels. Be what you are without needing to say how superior your channel is. Having a degree or letters behind your name doesnt mean you are correct in the interpretation of the science.
People have brains and can decide for themselves what to apply to their own lives. I don't need you or anyone to tell me the value of other channels. I find a lot of your videos to be useful. This one is disappointing and attempts to be controlling of people's source of information.
I found peers to have been much more helpful than any mental health professional who wanted to pathologize me when I was in a very dangerous abuse situation.
Is your channel helpful? I doubt your channel passes as science either in determining something as subjective as "helpful". I wont turn over that power to you or anyone to define that for myself.
I dont need science to tell me who is harmful for my life or to have an "asshole" detector to protect myself from their manipulation. I wouldn't watch your channel or any on TH-cam if I were looking for academic information. I can read medical journals or start at the NIH for that kind of information for which this channel also pales for sources on the most recent science.
That's so true, I went to one who told me I just need to be a better person. I don't disagree that I should be a better person, but that wasn't the point.
@@mlmallory2780 How awful to be told that.
its SO important what you said about "adaptive value" and only people in our field will even understand the benefit of that
A lot of those channels do teach to hate they teach you to draw lines between you and that person and see them as bad and you as good. Drawing lines is never good, hating is damaging to yourself whether you see it now or not. It also teaches you to see yourself as a victim and others as the villain, because let's face it, it's easier to place blame on someone else so we can avoid acknowledging our own deficits. We as humans have both these traits, & more, to deny 1 & embrace 1, to me, is to deny who you truly are, and prevents you from seeing the darker side of yourself, the many sides of yourself, that we need to acknowledge in order to mature & grow as a person. Otherwise the way we view relationships & ourselves will stay at an immature level.
Thank you for your video Dr. and for putting all these useful information out there. I know where you’re coming from because as you said this whole healing from narcissistic abuse has become a business lately, but the thing with the good channels in that business (the ones that I find good at least), is that they resonate like you said with people, and to be honest they resonate more than scientific channels in general, because of two simple reasons, one: scientific channels don’t target a specific group of people who are in trouble and looking for answers, and second: they don’t consider the state of people who are listening, and they don’t realize that plain science can be really confusing and overwhelming for a victim, some one who’s been in a abusive relationship is looking for clear things, a road map, a way out, some channels even give strategies for personal safety and where victims could go for help, and actually many of these channels suggest that you should ask for professional help, from my own experience, science and professional in general don’t look at the victim as a victim, they look at them as an object to study, (I’ve met professional who made me feel like a lab rat, and I’m not kidding) while victims need validation and someone who could listen. And let’s face it, the medical field has become a business itself from a very long time ago, for insurance companies, and big pharmas, so the chances of getting real good help from professionals are not much better, and it takes much more time than working with a coach, and trust me not everyone who has a degree is good at their work, for one simple reason, many of them they think they know best, and they are so convinced that they don’t even listen to the patient for more than 2 minutes. In an ideal world, medical doctors and health care professionals should really learn to develop more emotional intelligence to be able to deal with their patients even if they think that they are better and that they know better than their patients. The medical health system is enabling this healing from narcissistic abuse business by being so far away from people on so many levels, especially the emotional level, that people need to seek help elsewhere, not to mention that many specialists around the world don’t even know what narcissistic abuse is. And I need to make it clear that I find your channel very helpful and that’s why I follow it. Sometimes I realize that some people interpret my comments on your videos as being negative comments against you, which is not true, I appreciate this channel but it doesn’t mean that I as a viewer need to agree with everything, and I still can have an opinion on the videos, it doesn’t mean I have something personal against Dr. Grande!
You're welcome!
“If you disagree with me you are a narcissist!“
This is so much a summary of these damned videos.
Dr. Grande, thank you for all the help your videos are for me. I was discarded 2 weeks after I was let go from work (19 yrs there) and a week before Christmas. Kicked out on the street in a delusional rage. One minute we were fine, he went out and came back in a rage. I did everything to keep peace for 4 1/2 yrs. I was a narcs dream supply. It was mind blowing and I never want to go back to the lowest point I was at after it happened. I started looking up what makes a person rage, then possessiveness and control. It all kept leading to the same thing, to you tube and different hosts of channels. It really helped sorting it all out. Every new revelation pointed at narcissism. Then I found all the information on covert/vulnerable and it was precisely who I was living with. He was so nice and quiet, generous to friends and others. I was sooo confused during the 4 1/2 yrs we were together. Nothing made sense. Now it all made sense and came together. I chose people to listen to that didn't seem like they were lashing out about their own experiences, but rather healthy people. That's also how I chose you as one of my few choices 🙂. Anyway, bottom line is it was so much help for me. Mostly therapists with a couple life coaches that seem to focus more on becoming healthy myself and realizing what led me there. It was Dr. Les Carter that, in his book, said just being born you have worth. It changed everything for me. I'm a different person.
Thank you, Dr. Grande, for your opinion on that topic. I watched quite a lot of these videos and I could never shake the feeling that the whole concept of some of these channels is to antagonize narcissism and by extension people who display some or all of the traits of npd in every way possible. I found that actually pretty curious because a lot of them refer to themselves as "empaths" but don't seem to show any empathy or compassion towards the people they deem evil or unworthy of love and affection - I even remember that one individual said they should be exiled from society or worse.
I dont want to minimize the horrific abuse people go through of course. But I can't help to be quite concerned about that irony and the circles some of them operate in.
Sam Vaknin's channel was absolutely wonderful in my experience. I had to face a japanese family that had adopted a girl i dated. They made her life very hard, and hardened her. She was aware but didn't have the strenght to face their abuse.
H.G. Tudors advice on divorce and getting out helped me. Deciphering the narcs language he gave..I was floored. It was beneficial for me to read Tudirs content rather than listening to his voice. Kinda creeps me out.
Dr Ramani is cool though. Good info.
Have a great and narc free day!!
Uh-oh, Doc... get ready to be labeled the "mean, rigid, narcissistic, TH-cam doctor who hates other content creators!"😂😂😂🤦🏾♂️ But, for real... I think I might have a "PhD" in watching TH-cam narcissism videos and I personally think your assessment was very fair and scientific, as usual!👍🏽👍🏽
👏🏼 👏🏼 👏🏼
Hahaha 😂 lol
I could possibly have a PhD on multiple personality co-morbidities that wander from one to another depending on the triggers or traumas then. My self-titled PhD would be from experiencing each of them, only few patterns the same in each. Once we learn the extent of disconnect, it’s easier to observe, appreciate and reach exceptional growth ourselves. Love is the greatest healer of all 💞😇
When I first learned about narcissism it was from youtube. It was a really helpful start to understand the basics.
Hi, Todd! I enjoy your talks about mental health because you offer clarity about each condition you speak of. Without innuendo or snarky judgement. Straightforward discussions such as yours don't "otherwise" anyone of us. Leaving lots of room for compassion. For myself, I have found that I can "step out" of a recent bewildering relationship, examine its dynamics. This guy has narcissistic traits, especially adept at manipulation. I'm taking a good long look at myself, how I responded, thinking of how I can change my approaches to the world in general. I have been in Counseling for decades and am making progress. Thank you for your directness and clarity. And especially for not treating us like "bugs" under a microscope.
Your channel is spreading good science and how to express a balanced viewpoint, a very rare approach these days, please continue uploading content
You have a very soothing voice.
I love his voice😍 and the way he thinks and communicates
Not going to lie - I watch all of my "financial news TH-cam recent vids" first every night when settling into bed. But I save Dr. Grande's videos for last because a) they are the best and b) his voice often puts me right to sleep because it is so soothing, reassuring that I'm going to make it out the other side of this and his gentle way of handling "topics too many people want to fight about on TH-cam" gives me hope that I, too, will be gentle & introspective again one day before speaking because right now I'm stuck in the rage, RAGE, hate, Anger cycle of hoping every night that horrible awful things happen to my Narc. Dr. Grande's voice takes that fiery fury down about 8 notches and allows me to remember who I am and my guiding Creed in life: "Don't treat them as bad as they are, treat them as good as you are." Dr. Grande is good medicine for a wounded soul ;-)
It actually helps me fall asleep at night
Dr. Todd Grande needs to do ASMR! 😀
I literally sometimes put his videos on to fall asleep. I use the videos I’ve seen before so I’m not missing any good information, then I’m out like a light!
Dr. Grande, I just want to say thank you so much for this video. I needed this after viewing a few of those types of videos. I must admit in the moment what those videos were saying did resonate with me, but it usually left me feeling angry with my partner. I was so focused on him that I completely disregarded any notion of me possibly contributing to some of our problems. These videos kept me from seeing that I've manipulated too, I've controlled, I've been distrusting and I've probably blamed him for my pain. My goal is not to hate, not to be in denial. My goal is to be REAL and to be honest. Thank you for your insight ( and science-based reasoning).
I can tell you that YOUR channel is genuinely helpful to me. I clicked on your videos about avoidant personality because I recognized the word "avoidant" from one of my therapy sessions, and I had taken it as a fancy word for someone who avoids stuff. Ohhhh hohoho. I HAVE an avoidant personality, totally. I thought I was just anxious and scared of stuff, but that IS specifically my *reaction* to that anxiety. That pattern goes back as long as I can remember.
Framing my anxiety in those terms has honestly been informative. That term was really a helpful piece of the puzzle.
Can you please provide a few more examples? I'm trying to understand this for myself as well.
@@ceterisparibus8966 examples of what avoidant personality looks like vs general anxiety? I'm not clear on the question.
If it helps, the TLDR is that I have (apparently) had social/generalized anxiety to a mild but pervasive extent, forever. I thought I just kinda sucked a bit at life in general because it seemed like things were so much easier for others. Then I got into therapy as an adult and realized that my earliest memory *could* be interpreted as an anxiety meltdown, and that put a lot of stuff in perspective. Then a few more years down the way the awesome therapist I had then used the word avoidant, and I thought well that makes sense, because boy oh boy, do I like to literally hide or run from anything stressful. THEN I watched Dr. Grande's video on Avoidant Personality Disorder, and I highly, highly recommend it if that term perks up your ears. I have likely developed that very thing, over the years, and now being aware of it is helpful. Knowing that that WILL be my first response, I WILL run or hide before I've even rationally thought, puts it on my radar. "Waaait, NO. Ignoring your fear of having missed X deadline WILL NOT make jack s--- better. Take a few breaths and go FIND that form and check the date on it, because after you know, you can't hide as easily. Rip off the band-aid."
Does any of that help?
Although i appreciate Dr Grande's informative videos on NPD, and the knowledge he has on the topic is exceptional, at the end of the day it doesnt matter how many books, studies and scholarly articles you have read on NPD: there is no comparison to years of actually suffering pathological abuse at the hands of these NPD types. This is why many of these other channels are way more insightful than anything an academic has to say on the matter. Many of these other content creators have experienced first hand how traumatic it is to be abused by narcissistic individuals.
Really? Dr. Grande is mean? Really?
😂😂😂
The person who said Dr. Grande is mean must be living life on a virtual bed of roses if he/she thinks he is mean?! I suspect the Dr. said something that struck a nerve or hit too close to the bone of truth and that person had to stretch a bit in an attempt to hurt him back. Sometimes a truth will hurt and sting, but then, if a person wants it or allows it, the healing may begin.
everyone is mean at some point
Do you know him personally?
@@willywanker5866 He bummed me behind the Argos in Hammersmith.
You don't require an TH-cam channel to hate the abuser. You hate them because they've abused you. These channels have helped me to get out of the shame, guilt, unworthiness, disgust that comes along with the hatred. In fact, I was able to not hate them anymore when I learned that someone is pathologically wired to abuse and it had nothing to do with me. When I could make sense of their behavior it was extremely liberating.
Thank you so much!
I needed to hear this..you are an answer to prayer...like a cooling breeze on a hot day..
I was being led to hate my narc (hate keeps me from having peace of mind), and to believe that there is NO WAY he can be helped!
I’ve gone No Contact with him backed by my therapist. And through her I’ve learned that I contributed in a negative way to making the situation worse, bringing my own “baggage” into our living arrangement.
Last I heard, he was going through EMDR. I pray the best for him.
But based on a number of factors, I have been made aware that it would be to my detriment to connect with him again. And I agree. He has created havoc on a professional and emotional personal level. I’m in the process of healing.
I am learning from my mistakes that “added fuel to the fire.” I’m wiser.
I was growing suspicious of the other channels...questioning their credentials...etc.
One guy doesn’t even disclose his name and wants my $!
I’m thankful I have a professional therapist to “bounce things off of,” and a questioning mind I’m learning to use in a better way these days.
I will share this video with her!
I most certainly will subscribe to your channel, and refer others to it!
God bless you for bringing a good measure of sanity to TH-cam!
From a CPD point of view I have found some of these channels informative, however you can really fall down a rabbit hole and really get hooked into watching more and more of these channels and their content. The content seems to never end or particularly shift. Its quite stuck and repetitive. It feels a little uncomfortable to me and after a while of watching this type of content it feels like it goes beyond being informative and helpful and more like being stuck in a trauma. Their own trauma? There is also a sense that everyone and anyone is a Narcissist, we must be alert at all times in fight or flight mode. I’m not sure this is too healthy. Any way just my opinion. Thought provoking video as ever x
Lol, almost invariably, the people "knocking" the informal narc "coaches" get a Dr. Todd Grande
"💓" grrr... I AM GRATEFUL FOR "THEM!" "THEY" UNDERSTOOD HOW MUCH DANGER I WAS IN. AND HELPED ME, AND I IN RETURN POSTED THINGS I FOUND ..."GREY ROCK METHOD," and Gavin de Becker's "MOSAIC THREAT ASSESSMENT TEST." I LIVE, AND OTHERS MAY ALSO SURVIVE DUE TO THIS INFORMAL, UNSANCTIONED EDUCATIONAL OFFERING. ALL KNOWLEDGE IS "TRUTH." HARRUMPH!!!
Katie Still Therapy Talk and Relaxation great points!
I think it's partly because growing a youtube channel can become an income stream or multiple income streams. The creator can share knowledge and talk about experiences / give advice. When the content creator looks at the most viewed videos (like the narcissism ones) they create more content like that, so it's stands to reason that there is an influx. It's our responsibility to control how much of this stuff we watch so I dunno about the repetitive / uncomfortable thing... the way I see it is it's just creators generating more stuff that they know is popular, i.e. supply & demand.
Also, I think many people once they figure out what happened are upset (and amazed) that this stuff is never talked about, esp in mainstream media so that also makes sense that people want to find out about this topic because it has a mystery to it in some respects (depending on your existing knowledge of it).
I’m so glad you posted this video. NPD is a personality disorder and many people learn the Powers of Seduction causing the similar traits followed to hook another person. I don’t believe it’s all the Narc’s fault as a responsible adult I have to take a look at my overall mental health and access who it is that I’m allowing into my life, the first time something happens that’s so traumatic. I hurt so bad that the Hell with hovering I never wanted that feeling of being lost at sea, ever!! I stayed clear so there are problems when the person wants a Narc back in their lives. Who wants to experience that type of abuse over and over, run and no one should have to tell you that.
Thank you for sharing this. I have listened to many of the channels speaking about Narcissistic content and have found many who say they’re professionals or coaches . I am not a professional in this area but instead arrived to these channels by the way of self education to the borderline personality disorders and researching areas. I stopped watching many channels or creators, professionals included because I felt the term narcissistic is being used as a word weapon. And being used to “ name call”. While some of the description or definitions may be true some creators are using the word as a weapon which in my mind further causes trauma to the person watching. It develops a mindset that anytime they observe or experience a trait from anyone the person will be labeled. Sadly in many groups on social media many groups even moderated by professionals have become filled with hate and word weapons. At that point there is nothing educational to be shared. I’m appreciative of your channel and content.
What I can say is, your videos are a form of comfort while I continue to work on myself (with professional help), to gain a better understanding of myself and why I've behaved the way I have. Thanks again.
It struck me when I came across your channel recently that you present unemotional facts about the various conditions you cover. You are not that therapist who will get drawn into a client's drama. Many other channels that provide experience-based content appeal to people's raw emotions and the comments section acts as a support group. That can be helpful if the comments are positive, but too much wallowing in group misery works people into an angry stink and helps them ignore their own issues that contributed to their bad situation. You are right - before long everyone is labelled a narcissist, and those who've suffered the worst abuse become afraid to trust anyone at all.
@@RN-gx7wt I certainly wouldn't tell someone who had been abused in any way that it was their fault, for there are some pretty horrible people out there who get a kick out of shitting on everyone in their path. However I advocate for people identifying and working on their own weaknesses to improve their chances of forming healthier relationships in future, and becoming 'invisible' to abusive people or at least being able to recognize the signs and run a mile. I believe that's how you build the self-esteem and boundaries.
That was my personal experience, and had I not worked on my own demons I'd still be in relationships with men who weren't good for me in any way - or dead. It came to a crunch for me when an ex nearly strangled me to death. We can't change others, only ourselves. It wasn't easy to admit my own issues, but sometimes we have to put our big boy pants on and accept that something we are doing is making us a target and if we keep doing the same thing we'll keep getting the same outcome. Sharing experiences in a comments section can be reassuring when you first realize this is what you were dealing with, but regurgitating your story over and over will not prevent you from repeating the same mistakes nor is it healthy to start suspecting everyone of having a personality disorder.
And I agree that having a PhD does not confer wisdom or insight, and suspect those like Dr Grande are few and far between, which is why I did my own relentless research into where I was going wrong and what I needed to change. I would not seek weight loss advice from someone who weighed 400lb, so I also observed the behaviour of my friends who had healthy relationships and asked their advice. Caroline Myss' book "Why people don't heal and how they can" is an interesting read for those who are ready to start that personal work.
I am having a very nice day, thank you, most of my days are nice now and I wish the same to you.
@@RN-gx7wt The points you make are valid and I agree that *anyone* can fall foul of certain destructive characters. I've seen that happen in the workplace, although the degree to which they fall foul seems to depend on how emotionally healthy their roles models throughout childhood.
I do believe there are those of us who, for whatever reason, have a certain kind of damage to repair that makes us especially blind and vulnerable to the potential harm and less likely to get the hell out as soon as serious problems become more obvious. We're often the 'helpers' or 'fixers', subconsciously trying to repair unhealthy parental relationships using skewed techniques that didn't work back then and never will.
Fundamentally I don't think we disagree, we're just seeing it from different perspectives. Fwiw I don't like the term victim either, it's almost like a label of gullibility and shame.
Thank you also for your reply, I do appreciate intelligent discussion and improving my understanding through others' thoughts on a subject.
@@RN-gx7wt It's true that any normal human being with a well-formed, socially conforming conscience stands little chance, at least initially, against those whose moral compass is corrupt or non-existant. A 'perfect' childhood (and I don't believe there is such a thing) won't stop you from meeting such individuals, but a solid parental foundation will better equip you to know what is an emotionally unhealthy situation and plan your exit sooner rather than later. If nothing else you are not replaying and trying to repair a broken relationship because your experience is geared towards the feelings a healthy relationship evokes, and you are uncomfortable rather than familiar with the feelings an edgy relationship evokes.
@@RN-gx7wt It was to my great disgust when I was younger, coming from a family of impossibly strong women (with cracks that showed emotionally), that many women would expect a man to do something they could do themselves. Lazy bitches, I thought. And I met men who weren't narcicissts (albeit one psychopath, and I am quite sure of that) but fucked up - technical term, of course! - in some way who would let me do everything, including paying all the bills. That's what led me to realize I was fucked up too and I got utterly sick of it. Thus began my personal healing journey, which took a good few years and the end of a relationship with a ot unpleasant man who seemed to view me as a surrogate parent.
I finally got there and realized good men really want to be on at least an even footing and do things for a woman they love (and vice versa) and all people value their partner more when something realistic is expected of them.
I'm now - for the first time in my life - engaged to a great man who I look forward to marrying. He is financiallly on an even keel, secure in his own ego, happy to share tasks evenly, we respect each other intellectually and financially, trust each other in matters of fidelity and I've never been happier. I ask him to do tasks of strength or mechanical skill that I don't have and let him know I appreciate him for doing the teamwork part that I can't. He breathes a sigh of relief when I file paperwork! I really do wish the same for everyone who has put up with a lot of crap for a long time. I worked hard to change the way I related to these issues and it changed my world so much for the better, and it's why I advocate taking responsibility for our own feelings and working on what we can about ourselves. That really is the only thing we can change x
@@RN-gx7wt You have some very interesting thoughts. I would ask, don't we all want change of some sort? For example learning more may improve our ability for critical thinking or our job prospects. That's healthy change that's actually better made when you are at peace with yourself.
By definition change is doing something different. Learning boundaries is also healthy emotional change. Enforcing them is a different kind of change where you have to get tough and grow a backbone, also healthy (even if family resist it, kicking and screaming all the way). Learning that certain types of faulty people WILL exploit you and putting a stop to it. Some people really don't like it, but too bad. You are actually helping them by adopting the responsible adult position.
Most people have to walk away from themselves to keep a roof over their heads and food in the pantry. That is an unfortunate cognitive dissodance that most of us just have to learn to live with.
The one thing I disagree with is having to block, go total no contact with them our whole life. Just like alcoholics they have to learn how to live in a society with alcohol and eventually they have to learn to be at gathering or social events with alcohol. I'm not going through my whole life blocking, running from a narcissists that was in my life. Its giving the disordered person alot of power and I believe we have to learn to be around disordered people. I went into Counseling and got healthy and have strong boundaries and they could never get into my head again. I can say the only responsibility I will take is allowing his abuse to get out of control. I was validated by 2 Judges and 2 attorneys I was dealing with a narcissist. Can he change I don't know but I'm not going to hide from him the rest of my life if he is one. I've moved on and wish him the best in life. I gave my blessing to our bio daughter if she wants her father in her life because I got her into counseling over the abuse she witnessed from him to me. We have to trust ourselves eventually to know how to handle toxic people. That's where the power lies in our boundaries and showing people what we will allow in life. I love your channel.
I would love to see this comment at the top of the heap! Very helpful takeaway.
Best comment I have ever read 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
I think that depends where ur ex is on the narcissistic spectrum. My ex was trying to destroy my life for years, and in my case, no contact really solved the problem.
@@gsafadi2 I agree with you.
Thats why i started watching your channel.
I noticed alot of content creators not creating content with anything backing it up.
It frustrated me.
I appreciate that your experience with science.
Which helps more than any self made guru treating their wounds.
I appreciate you urging caution. Too many people throw clinical terms around casually, diagnosing others based on social media psychologists/therapists out for views/clicks. How do ppl work out their differences when each is calling the other a narcissist or accusing the other of gaslighting? No wonder the divorce rate is so high.
I've learned a lot from a lot of these channels. The therapists I've seen have
told me little about how to
deal with narcicissts, and
those with other personality
disorders and claimed to know little about them. I
thought I was all alone
trying to deal with these
individuals. Many of the
Channels have taught
me how to deal with
them and how to gain
support from others,
and that it is not my
fault they have these
disorders, which have
lead to learn how to
stop the abuse.
I think that the 95% of the helpers actually don't know in deep these pathologist. But when there is no option because there are no profesionals helping..it is better than nothing!!
Yep, this is exactly it. In my hometown with hundred of therapist, none of them have a recovery "plan" or "technique" or "method" to recover from narcissistic abuse.
Did you look into professionals specialized in trama? Just curious.
An attempt to learn is always an attempt in the right direction.
Since this video was made, I think the quality of narcissist themed video channels has improved or shall I say evolved and broadened. I have studied them with a critical eye and find that Dr. Ramani, Dr. Carter, and others who are psychotherapists who rely on scientific research, years of working with clients, and personal relationships with people with narcissistic personality disorder have been the most helpful.The comments and opportunity to write a few words to others with similar toxic and abusive experiences has helped me to heal, grow and change, and also realize that I'm not the only one. Now I've moved on and am in a wonderful healthy relationship. I wish that for everyone and hope that those with NPD can change and experience that too.
Hahah, interesting that you described yourself as somewhat disagreeable. I think some people might interpret you as being even more so because you tend to be very serious when you talk, but if they actually listen you are just very careful with your words. It's incredibly refreshing when it comes to things like talking about narcissists, which tend to be very pathos oriented.
Compared to most youtubers you smile very little which I found odd at first, but you do have a great sense of humor and I really appreciate how you speak about things.
My husband is emotionally neglectful and has narcissistic traits. He also has severe ADHD... and I think the life-long ADHD caused his narcissism... (also his childhood) but like he developed this way as a coping skill for undiagnosed ADHD. He’s in counselling and on meds but very little has changed regarding the negative behaviours. His attitude that he’s not the problem and therefore lacklustre effort to rehabilitate is just toxicity. I have to see a counsellor weekly myself to regain my strength and figure out what I can do to remain sovereign instead of sitting in the victim rut.
Your channel is one of the better psychology channels. I appreciate your lack of bias and your reference to medical journals.
Emily S The ADHD meds might bring out some narc traits more too
Emily S I appreciate your comment as I dated a man earlier this year briefly who has ADHD and he told me people thought he was a narcissist. (I could also see him as a giving man so I question the narc part, selfish at times and self centered but we all can be at times) I had been studying narc behavior and could see tendencies and also knew a little of his childhood to make me wonder if some emotional neglect was present as well. I had been emotionally neglected as a child and psychology is a current interest of mine for my own growth.
You say your husband 's attitude is that he isn't the problem could be a self preservation behavior. Imagine having ADHD, would knowing or focusing on being the problem help or hurt. Is there a way to focus on the good things so as some of the pressure comes down?
Your post was very rational and I didn't feel you were blaming him. I try to walk in the others shoes. Sometimes it helps and sometimes it makes it more confusing. My heart went out to the man I was dating. We were similar in many ways but he was dealing with the trauma of a fresh divorce and finding stability. I don't know much about ADHD but have read some. Its good you have support with your therapist. Warm hugs
There can be a link between the 2.
So glad to hear you say that NPD is recoverable. I had begun to believe that the mental state of a narc was locked in place. You let me know there is hope!
IF they're willing to get treatment, which they aren't, because they will refuse to admit they have faults. So it's a moot point of whether it could be treated, because they won't seek treatment.
I am an Educational and a Clinical Psychologist in the UK. These are protected terms, (along with a few others). However, anyone in the UK can set up as a counsellor or whatever just so long as they do not use a restricted term, (which gives you a lot of choice). So, NLP therapist, hypnotherapist, counsellor etc are all fine. We are very lax in the UK and there are loads of course that run over a few weekends which will train you to be an NLP practitioner or hypnotherapist or whatever. You mention in the video
about regulations in the UK so I thought I'd mention it. Thanks for your video's by the way - I really enjoy them and find them balanced and informative.
On the one hand, it's kind of nice watching someone who has actually experienced the abuse first hand and can give actual examples and stories of what they went through, as opposed to someone whose only knowledge of the subject comes from reading books and articles about the subject. There's just something more personal about those channels whereas the more scientific channels can come across as too 'matter-of-fact' and can feel distant. I personally watch a lot of these TH-cam channels because I'm writing a story in which the main character is undergoing narcissistic abuse so I watch those channels more for inspiration than for actual scientific understanding. Though I do watch the more scientific channels as well and I have seen many of the problems with these channels that you just mentioned.
I'm really glad that you pointed these problems out. In particular, I'm really glad that you pointed out the conspiracy theory aspect in some of these videos and how some of these channels seem to push paranoia. There is one channel in particular that gives a perfect example of this. On that channel is a video where the host discusses 'gang stalking' and in it he describes how he personally has been gang stalked for several years. He talked about how the 'flying monkeys' of his narcissistic ex are following him everywhere, have planted hidden cameras in his flat (including the bathroom) and are watching him all the time, have hacked into his phone and computer and email and are always monitoring his communications, and they even live in the apartment above him and bang around loudly just to upset him. He then talked about how he knows what he is experiencing is real, that he knows he is not crazy, and he went on to say that people who tell him he should seek a therapist or medication are both insensitive and mistaken.
I mention this out of no disrespect for the host nor am I trying to cast judgement, I'm actually deeply concerned for him, but I bring this up because it was the comment section that really alarmed me. Some of the comments were nothing but friendly well wishes, yet many others were of people talking about how they were experiencing the same things, and how happy they were that someone else was going through the same things because it made them realize they weren't crazy. I don't know if any of you have seen that channel or that specific video I just described above, but it is a potential example of how some of these channels can encourage paranoia (even if that was not the host's intent).
Overall, I think you did a great job pointing out the issues with some of these channels. But there is one issue that I have noticed with these nonscientific channels that you didn't get around to mentioning which is that some of them place emphasis on spirituality and religion when talking about narcissistic abuse. For instance, I've seen videos where the host says things like (and I'm paraphrasing here) "...thanks to the will of God, I finally left him" or "...I didn't know what to do but I prayed and I finally started on the road to recovery" or "...I might have gone back, but by the Grace of God", and so on. This turns me off to these channels because it feels as though they are trying to push prayer and religion (specifically Christianity) on to their audience instead of encouraging them to seek professional help from a therapist who is trained in helping people recover from abusive relationships. In another video I saw the host described narcissists as 'vampires' that 'feed' off other people's energy. At first, I thought they were using it as a metaphor of sorts to help the audience better understand what it feels like to be in a relationship with a narcissist (cause it can be emotionally and mentally exhausting or draining), yet some people in their audience don't seem to realize it's a metaphor and think the host is talking about literal evil beings or people being literally possessed by evil beings that's the problem with using such a metaphor.
Am I the only one that has noticed that a lot of these channels talk about God, spirituality, the Devil or even argue that narcissists are "demonically possessed"? Maybe I'm just the first to bring it up. Anyway, it's just my two cents. Love your channel by the way!
A narcissist is anyone I've been in a relationship with and then, later, fallen out with.
You been watching dr ramani i suspect...
When I was first beginning to search for understanding around what was going on in my relationship, and was not really conscious of what emotional abuse is, some of the youtube channels and some other pop psychology on the internet helped me to begin to understand and create a frame of reference around what was happening to me. It also felt very validating. Eventually however I moved on to discussing it with my therapist and with reading more in depth information.. and feel like I need more than the simplistic conversations around it. I'm also annoyed by people over-using the term, but I also feel like it is incredibly devastating when it's actually happening and that it may be a bit more prevalent than we are conscious of collectively. Because some of the pop psychology and youtube channels helped me at the beginning to validate my experience and investigate further, without impairing my ability to also be introspective about my role and my own level of awareness, I would say in my case any information I could find was helpful and appreciated.. and made me feel less alone. I am definitely annoyed by people calling themselves experts however, or using their channels to endlessly ruminate on their own experiences and then project them outwards as universal themes in narcissistic relationships. I would say at times it can just be experience of having a community, or an online support group, or listening to others and there being a healing through people sharing their experiences.. so it would be better if they would approach it like that instead of trying to monetize it.
Dr. Grande, as usual, your take on your subject is on point and level headed....I truly appreciate the time and energy you devote to your videos. I find them very balanced and helpful. Thank you so much for offering your insights and analysis! 🙏
at 9m50sec "value" is probably the key word here (using this word is out of character I think in your well thought out and concise videos).... for one person 'value' may be the presence of scientific backing and for another feeling related too /heard/comforted upon reading the content (is the goal 'the goal' or the process etc). I think in very many ways ( based on at least having many equally 'nerdy' friends with PHDs in scientific fields and heated discussions with them) science has become the new religion and any heresy is dealt with appropriately). I really enjoy and indeed am thankful for your channel. Cheers!
If it wasn't for these channels, including that of Sam Vaknin, I would have stayed in the dark,
Same here.
Me too. He taught me a lot. I had no idea I was living with a NPD husband. Not one therapist, Dr, understood my pain
Tommy Hass that’s not a fact. That’s an opinion.
I don't understand why people listen to Sam Vaknin, a self confessed narcissist.
@@minnae.1747 He exudes very strong asshole vibes. Massive weirdo.
Keep up the good work Dr. Grande... each one to their own... I like your content, presentation and science based orientation... you are balanced... thank you
First, I love this channel and am grateful for the content. I believe these studies in human behavior are valuable in helping us understand ourselves and our own behavior. I also feel the narcissism channels help the viewer to get an objective view of what’s happening in a toxic situation. The next step is for the viewer to figure out what’s going on within him/her that caused him/her to become entangled in it and address those issues. It all starts with each one of us. Bottom line is this: if each viewer gathers information and fails to do the inner work necessary to deal with his/her issues, then the quality of his/her life is never going to improve. Take what you need from the channels and then work on yourself and use whatever tools are most helpful in that regard.
Your content is solid, sound, consistent, and professional; I appreciate your content, Dr. Grande.
Thank you ! 🙂
I agree so much! Personally, I have found more relief in understanding the narcissistic personality disorder and the mechanisms involved. Understanding, reasoning vs behavior. I made the decision to move away from someone with this personality disorder. I think I am a fairly pragmatic person. And it really helps me more to understand than to hate. Of course, I had to do some work on myself to also understand some of my vulnerabilities. But that's how I managed to move forward.
Yes, I agree, I found that my feelings of hatred increased watching certain channels and I continued to search finding you, Dr. Les Carter and Dr Abdul Saad. I want to be my Best Self and not dwell in hate and harmful emotions. These channels help me understand but without increasing painful emotions. Thank you, I am very grateful .
Yes!!! I get depressed when I watch them, but when I watch a more scientific TH-camrs about this topic I feel levelheaded.
Thank you. I really found this useful actually. I've gone through a lot of experiences in my life, some from my childhood, some from my adult life experiences, going through various difficulties along the way including some which were traumatising. I started learning at a certain point in life that sometimes I was too open or trusting, while dealing with various manipulation tactics from people who had originally been friends. I moved city, I had different relationships. I learnt about narcissism along the way as it helped me process some experiences I'd gone through. These were new modern terms, different to traditional English values of moving on & not complaining. I started healing.
Now complaining has become the most important thing & maybe too much. I recently entered a new relationship after having had a few difficult relationships in the past (various exes I now described as narcissists). This new relationship the last year however, has ended up with both of us accusing each other of being narcissists whenever we have an argument.
So I started watched as many dating / psychology channels (including about narcissism), every time we argued. This just gave me more reason to judge him. Because he's already watched even more dating & narcissism advice videos than me, he's been calling me names too. So then I became confused, do I have PTSD or narcissistic tendencies, or does he, or do we both have codepencency issues, just for trying to make the relationship work? Neither of us have been in a relationship for several years (over lockdown) so we are out of practice. However it seems every time something goes wrong we both start to criticise each other with the same standard words. I'm guessing if it was another era, we would have just called each other selfish or egotistical.
Yesterday I read an article written by some guy describing the emotionally immature narcissistic female. I read it & thought, "Oh my goodness, that's me. Now I understand why my partner has been calling me these names all along". This is because I have shown female tendencies to cry, get upset, maybe internalise my feelings & sometimes behave passive aggressively rather than be overtly aggressive, then when he's triggered me, I've sent millions of texts & emails rather than shouting. All demonstrations of being female & not male. I've complained instead about my boyfriend for being emotionally immature for not understanding my feelings & being empathetic when I cry, & instead being angry accusing me of being manipualtive. I've then realised, oh but he's male, & men are brought up to hide all feelings apart from anger which is meant to show how male they are.
I've realised that actually the divide between what the different genders state regarding what is emotionally immature or narcissistic of the other gender, is essentially the opposite. I cry spontaneously if I am upset, there's nothing premeditated about it.
As someone that comes from a mixed ethnicity background, being part Italian & also having lived in other Mediterranean countries, including the Middle East I've seen that different emotional & psychological profiles for males & females are traditional in different countries, & don't always map out onto the Anglo-centric world. In other countries men are more emotionally expressive at the same time as more empathetic while still being macho at the same time. It's considered healthy. So that's the opposite of the English world, just for being from a different country.
As someone who has only had a couple of English boyfriends when I was 16 -22 & then foreign boyfriends from the ages of 24 - 45, now I've been dating an English guy, even though I'm born in the UK, so now his psychology seems alien to me. So therefore after watching youtube dating channels wondering if he was narcissistic, then dealing with him accusing me of narcissism, I've now come out the other side wondering is this just a new buzz word for people to criticise each other, so they can move on to the next dating challenge? Isn't that narcissistic to devalue & discard people in itself?
Coming from a traditional Catholic background, I'm used to traditional values where you stayed loyal to your spouse even if you argue, you talk about it once you've calmed down, so you can grow in respect & love from further understanding. In this new era where everyone accuses each other of being narcissistic, however that would be called toxic codependent. But that's traditional * normal for me. I am personally now beginning to wonder as Dr. Grande has said in the video, where do we go from here in terms of actually working on conflict resolution & working out how to move on together in a relationship, rather than alienating each other by excessively accusing words taken from the internet.
I've now reached the point where I'm feeling maybe it's best not to jump to conclusion to use the N word to criticise so much. Maybe it's time to accept that nobody's perfect & we all need healing from our own respective traumas of the past, & to have more empathy to heal & grow. That's what I'd like anyway. I know I'm not perfect, neither is my partner but I hope we can find a middle ground & listen to each other next time, to understand each other, rather than jump to conclusions accusing each other of the N word all the time.. I hope that doesn't make us codependent, when we get on, we do have a lovely relationship. Focusing on the positive & growing in understanding & compassion is what counts most of all. I just hope at least we can be friends & try not to use the N word so much any more. Thanks for your video Dr. Grande, it shows that sometimes we need to be careful of overly criticising people to the point of demonisation, & calm ourselves down & aim to have some empathy & understanding too.
I appreciate this. The other channels I watched brought awareness and actually brought me to you ultimately, granted I’d rather watch you now since I am in the medical field and appreciate your scientific information rather than just maybe opinion or someone’s single point of view on that topic. After watching the other channels, I realized they seem like a friend who hears something bad about your relationship such as something bad that my significant other did or said, and they encourage escape. I don’t like that and I don’t agree with that. I think that everyone has to make their own decision. I had a friend that i started confiding in about my relationship and that’s exactly what she did, was encourage me to break up with the person. I then decided that my relationship will remain private and i now go to therapy. I do not follow what other people say although I am not in danger. I think that I’d learn more about myself and the other person rather than just leave after so many years and deal with how we are going to break up the dogs and sell the house yada yada. That’s a lot to deal with, more so than the relationship itself sometimes!!!
19:06 I would love to know what literature supports the expectation that people with NPD can be helped.
@Crucibelle
Well Sam Vaknin did more research than anyone else in the field since the mid-90s. He has a huge database of formation. He even coined the term narcissistic abuse along with narcissistic Supply Etc and he doesn't think there can be help for most. although now he's come up with this cold empathy treatment. He admits to only helping 40 people so far but listen that's honest.
I"ve heard some other therapist state that if the Narcissist is at the low end of the spectrum (a lesser degree of it) there could be hope for growth and some improvement. But if they are too far along the spectrum, forget about it, pretty much wasting time in therapy as not going to improve.
All the literature I've read has come to the conclusion that there is no way to teach empathy to someone without it, it has to be done in very early childhood. The best you can do is to teach someone who actually wants to change (rare with npd) how to recognize what other people feel but they can never actually FEEL it themselves. This would suggest that fully recovering from any cluster B disorder is impossible at this time.
Yes you are correct. Some of their behaviours can be somewhat corrected if they are self-aware enough but that's pretty rare. I think these channels are useful in getting people to recognize who they're dealing with and to walk away.
Susanne C No, they can't be helped. They don't want help. They don't deserve help.
I think those narc channels are helpful as I was raised by a narc/borderline mother and although I had been on therapy for 10 years I had never realized that there was something so wrong with my mother. Once I realized it it led me to understand many of the reasons why I am the way I am... I understand that those videos do sometimes cause people to call everyone a narc... I do still see a therapist weekly but I will say it was those narc channels that really prompted alot of my healing, and unfortunately I don't think my mom will ever get better, but maybe she will... Who knows. I am learning how to have boundaries and to care for myself even in the face of my mom's illness.
Thank you, Dr. Grande. You've taught me a lot. Appreciate your generosity.
These videos (yours and many others over the past maybe 10 years) have helped me heal for many reasons. I think the main reason is that I at last feel 'heard' and understood. My husband tries, but hasn't got the faintest clue what it's like to have been emotionally abused since the day you were born. The content providers I've watched have either been formally trained, or lived similar lives to myself. And those who comment have lived similar lives. Just to know that someone **fully** understands is the most amazing relief and incredibly validating and healing.
in my experience, Narcissistic abuse, is just abuse and the feelings that result after you get out of the toxic relationship looks more like more ptsd as a result of the abuse suffered.
These channels did help me immensely during the earlier stages of recovery from narcissist abuse, but i agree one hundred percent about 'being stuck in first gear", with them. If you stick with them too long, they become an addiction to reinforce the 'blameless victim' narrative about yourself, and you begin seeing almost everyone as a narcissist, which is simply not the case. After a certain amount of time, they can really hold you back from moving on with your own progress.
So glad to have discovered this channel after reaching a point of insight to recognize these narcissistic characteristics in my own behaviors. Every other resource I've come across made me feel evil and irredeemable. This channel gave me hope that I could resist these impulses and helped me understand why I act this way
The information received from some of these channels is helpful and productive in that it defines the topic clearly and gives opportunity to better oneself. Simply having this medium available is itself a step in the healing process. Instead of obsessing over texts and mixed messages, one can be focused on understanding and getting necessary treatments.
The only blogger on this topic ten years ago was a self-professed narcissist whose information, while helpful, put one smack in the middle of the environment they were trying to escape!
I saw this topic arise recently and hoped you would share your insight with us Dr Grande.
The main reason I prefer your channel (and a couple more) to the others is that you do not use the ‘victim/perpetrator’ dialogue. Given the scientific explanation alone can help an intelligent person to make better choices without blaming or running away from the other. The outcome being simply accepting what is, due to circumstances out of one’s control at some stage in their lives 🤔
Thank you for your insight into this topic 🙏🏽😊
Dr Grande, I have seen many videos and they are very very negative about narssisistic personality. I am living with a narssisist and I started hating that person because of these videos but then I realised that he is not as bad as it is portrayed. He is going through depression. He appreciates me. Shows gratitude for what I am doing for him and our family. He is emotionally dependant on me. I have learnt a lot from him. Living with confidence. Putting up your side or case. Taking help from people. As a schizoid I learnt a lot from him. I realised that after all he is a human being. Its not his fault. I can try to make him understand. I do see some hope. I want people to know this.
Both my current wife, and my ex-wife totally destroyed me psychologically and emotionally. I use sites like the ones you speak of, solely to get an understanding of the damage that has been done to me, from others who had similar experiences. These sites are no substitute for professional help, but they have helped me in many ways. I have gotten professional help in the past, but nothing helped. It was actually my son who gave me back my sanity, and clarity enough to realise exactly was going on... Speaking with people who have no practical experience does not help me, it never has, unfortunately.
Kellbo How did your son help you?
Sounds like you have lack of sense of reality in life
@@Chris-ey7zy If that is what you gleaned from my comment?, then all I can say is that you didn't comprehend a word that I said. But, thank you for response, aynway.
@@kevinhornbuckle I am sorry. I only saw this comment first time, just now (2 years later). My son gave me back my sanity by simply affirming what I had been saying for many years. My ex-wife had so many "flying monkeys" attacking me, and defending her, even professional people. I honestly thought I was living in a fantasy world because no one else could seem to see what I saw. The reality is though, that she was 100 times worse than I believed. I kept thinking that the woman I fell for would never do anything like that. The fact is that the woman I fell for never existed. With this realisation came the return of my sanity.
@@DarthIckus That matches my experience. I am glad I have what it takes to stand up to the professional bullies. I have a good relationship with my son. His very disturbed mother was unsuccessful at driving me out of his life. I hope you and your son are doing well. I continue to collect case studies of boys who were successfully turned into son-husbands by their disturbed mothers. It ruins a boy’s life permanently.
I'm so glad you tackled this topic. I've often wondered why and how this fascination with discussing one personality disorder. I have a great of respect for the brain, how trauma affects it and all of the things that can happen to an individual in their formative years and beyond that informs their behavior. That said, I'm incensed at how many channels, even with Clinicians, seek to encourage lay people to diagnose others which to me, hurts your field and promotes the false notion that Psychiatry is a "soft science", like people often do with Dentistry. I think it makes people lazy because if they can label someone as defective or broken, they can forego the work it may take to understand them and get to a harmonious place in those relationships or take any personal responsibility for the breakdown of relationships with the people you've diagnosed. I think it's just another reason for people to be separate as they judge and dismiss never taking ownership for their own ways of being that might be bourne out of their dysfunctional traumatic responses.
Thank you again, Dr. Grande! I've thought for quite some time that people use the term/word Narcissistic to describe conditions, symptoms, etc. that are no more the definition of what a Narcissist is than saying that the body part on my face which I use to breath with (my nose) is called a foot!!! This word Narcissist gets thrown around all the time and It's SO irritating! And then, when I'm speaking of someone who I truly believe REALLY is a Narcissist, (by their behaviors, symptoms, etc.), I have to always preface it with "I know the word Narcissist gets used a lot for conditions that really aren't Narcissism, but I really think that so and so is a Narcissist." Is it that people just like saying that word???? It's weird. I'm sooo glad you've addressed this ridiculous epidemic among some TH-camrs who don't know what in the Hell their talking about (I get to be a lot less diplomatic than you cause we get to do that in the comments -LOL)! Thanks again....