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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ค. 2024
- In this video series I was looking for possible cheap alternatives to an over range rear pulley for the Minarelli / Jog / 1E40QMB two-stroke scooter engine. Along the way I tried to include information on other CVT topics that may be useful, in addition to detailing what was done to make each pulley fit my Chinese scooter's 1E40QMB transmission.
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Part 1 : • Minarelli Scooter Over...
Part 2 : • Minarelli Scooter Over...
Part 3 : This video is part 3.
Even if you aren't looking for an over range pulley, check out the listing below to help you find specific sections in the series about other topics.
Part 1 (24min53sec)
0min14sec What is an over range CVT?
2min27sec Malossi Over Range CVT Kit
5min28sec Using Spacers On The Drive Boss
11min47sec Morini Rear Pulley
14min59sec Elongating Torque Driver Grooves
Part2 (32min02sec)
0min00sec Modified Stock Rear Pulley
4min11sec Modifying A stock Front Pulley Fixed Half
11min13sec Stock CVT
14min45sec Piaggio Rear Pulley
20min16sec CVT Cover Clearance
27min12sec Flat Centered Front Drive Face
Part3 (15min57sec)
0:00 139QMB/GY6 50 Rear Pulley
5:54 Hoca Rear Pulley
10:40 Conclusion
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#ScooterTuning #CVTTuning #CVTHowTo - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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I have no idea why i just watched these 3 videos.
But i am very impressed with the overthetop passion you put into this.
One can only appriciate and respect that.
I just want to thank you for making this series, now even 6 years later one thing you said in part 2 helped me a lot in why I couldn’t shim my variator even more which was is necessary for the acceleration.
Glad it helped!
@@49ccscoot this is insane! Answering comments on a 6 year old video within 20 minutes. Man keep up the good work. (Would be nice with some 50cc scooter vids, or maybe a updated version of this experiment. Or a budget Minarelli clone build.)
I mean more a budget build
I like to say that your videos help me understand some ishues i had. In cvt and in carborator adjustements. I sincerely hope you stay doing this videos and tests. They are to me the more and best detaild and explained ive seen. Nice work.
spiderroot Thanks!
I watched all the 3 parts of the projet and u are the best in that u deserve à job in malossi company
Very well done videos ,most informative and easy to understand I've seen ,great work.....thank you
Great series of videos, a huge piece of work and effort!
Thanks.
Thanks for another great video. I am impressed with your efforts and the engineering skills you have. Very informative and helpful! You've taught me a lot about my scoot!
Thanks! Glad you like 'em.
Thanks a lot for the testing!
this series helpt me so much!
Good work!
some great explaining my dude, happened to have bought a multivar for my peugeot (speedfight 2) that looked really good just used a bit, and my acceleration was lower so i started to look around the internet, its actually an overrange for my setup, slapped that with a big poulie i found at the scooter graveyard here at Amsterdam that nearly fit with some belt i dont know, top speed went from 75km/h towards 85/90+ with some nice wind in the back :) you made me understand all this much easier by showing and explaining in such detail, i thank you alot for this
Glad to hear the vid was so useful!
I'm enjoying these videos. nice work.
Thanks!
Im running a Piaggio Zip50RS.. liquid cooled.. stock "non moped" version will do 90kph no bother.. need to time the 0to40mph though.
I'm sure it's better than mine. My 0-40s aren't quick, just for reference of the changes. Fat guys and mild engines aren't a recipe for racing success.
Your doing the world a favour making these vids man. Peace.
Great work!
thanks
Thanks!
Ive watched this video 12x to try to understand cvt better..Great job...Just installed ztr 1000 spring and 1500 clutch springs ans 4.5 gram sliders on my 90cc Polaris pred....That was wrong choice...Im about to take out ztr spring see how that helps..quad rips out and then does not shift lol...
Damn, you put a lot of work into this test. It’s only makes me want to stick with Pollini and Molossi or Stage6 CVT components or really any components at all. They seem to know what they’re doing.
At the time I was trying to find ways to save money, but after getting used to the over range kits and what they can do I just use OR kits.
@@49ccscoot Well thank you for doing all that and showing it to us, you put in some serious work.
Cheap Malossi OverRange torq alternative - Piaggio hiper1 original torq + malossi/stage6/polini overrange belt.
have the same problem with my stage6 oversize variator set. I found a medium spring and 9 gram weight where a good place to start.38 degree angle
Excelente!
Thanks!
I have a question. What can I do to make my scooter piaggio zip 50cc and 4t to make a faster start or accelerate fast ? Today I bought a 4.3g malossi rings and It didn't have a faster start. I need help
what needs to be done is to grind off the inner seal and seal housing so the pulley halves will move closer together and narrow the pulley with ..raising the final ratio
So many different small things to tinker with where everything make some minor change. Mind boggling
I installed a shorter but wider belt 815-20-32 on my 150cc KDU engine (QJ153QMI bored out to 150cc) and it doesn't reach the top of the rear pulley, but take off is so quick now, it will pull the fuel gauge down as the gas sloshes to the rear of the tank with 2000rpm clutch springs and 11 gram rollers, and I gained 5 mph on my top end for a 61mph top speed, so sometimes even what looks like a terrible set up, ends up working really well.
Also I think some clutches are much heavier than others, I was able to use 2K springs with the DMC clutch without premature torque spring shift with a 1.5K contra.
Next thing will be a gripped clutch bell, little 150 has so much torque it will slip the clutch on take-off, and the stock bell is wearing uneven, large stripe of oxidation on the outer edge of the bell, probably flared from poor manufacturing tolerances.
Most of the GY6s use a 20mm wide belt, so if your first belt was more narrow than that it may have been the wrong one. If you feel the urge to see if there's more in it you could always try finding a 20mm wide belt that's longer.
I tried and 821 20 30 and 835, the 821 had reduced take off torque and the 835 slapped on the case (way too long), and came apart at speed and made a terrible mess (belt spaghetti from hell!), I'm actually going to try an over-range rear pulley with that bike seeing as I have a lot of torque to play with and with the current set up it isn't going all the way down the pulley limited by slot design.
I took the pulley apart and it's the kind with little bushings on the pins, so it can't be filed longer and limits pulley expansion, found a nice Taiwan made over-range pulley so that will be my next upgrade.
Ah, well good luck with it. I know Autotech355 on eBay sells some pretty nice looking pulleys for some apps. I looked at the BWS100 pulley he sells as part of this project, but it's another like the Piaggio that looks good but the price is approaching OR territory by the time you get the whole kit together. Not sure if that's where you're looking, but maybe check his store out as well if you haven't.
Thank you for all your videos, they have been nothing but valuable on my own scooter-tuning journey.
I was thinking about installing a KOSO 139qmb/DIO rear pulley with variable angles on a minarelli horizontal from my Bugeye Zuma.
In theory, do you think a wider belt (with the correct length) would have helped the performance?
The stock belt installed on the zuma engines makes it quite low down the rear pulley, and I was thinking with a longer + wider belt (738x16.5 vs 748x18.5), it could take advantage of gearing, additionally with the use of the 139qmb rear pulley. I can get the setup for under $50 shipped total, so it is appealing to me.
Wider belts are kinda tough to deal with. The whole system is designed for a certain belt width and you only have so much space to add shims. Wider belts usually ride higher in the front pulley, which is bad for takeoff. If all you care about is speed, it may work out.
@@49ccscoot I don't live in the flattest place on earth, so I do need to take into account more than top speed unfortunately. I think I can get enough power out of the stock CVT setup (maybe doing the same modifications as you on the rear pulley so it can open up wider) with a 70cc kit without going through the hassle of changing belt size/rear pulley... so I'll have to put this idea on the back burner for now 😀
Really appreciate the quick response! Thank you for your time and videos
@@4Denwa If it's a 50 now, I think a 70 will better serve you. The power should be quite helpful on hills. Also, Zumas tend to have very deep gears, so if you are looking for speed a gear swap may be better, especially after a 70cc kit.
Old ( almost a half year) but u have to adjust springs and weights according to you'r setup in transmision. With Overrange Vario with Overrange pulley u shoud be using 3-4.5gr wights but it has no use on 50cc engine for more performance. it will be only slower and mby a little faster. It's used with 70cc racing cylinders to get the transmision work best.
Lately I've heard of even dealers saying the OR kit is not for cylinders that rev under 12,000RPM. I've been using one for a bit now on my 103cc that peaks around 9,000RPM and I've been very happy with it. I have to use very heavy weights (~10-11g) and a 1,000RPM spring from a 139QMB to get it to work where I want, but it's quick and controls revs nicely for me. So many people also think only about performance, but I've used it on the street now with mild builds for thousands of miles and it works very well without things like plastic variator ramp plate bushings breaking or belts snapping and all of the things that can come from more standard performance parts. I've worn out a couple sets of rollers and a belt or two, but otherwise in thousands of miles it's all in great shape other than I need to replace the bearings in the rear pulley's fixed half/sheave soon. That prob hasn't been helped by a lot of the gearbox/bearing issues I've had unrelated to the CVT though.
Thats great, but i must say that I am using oversize transmission for my high end aerox and only thing that can pull off that 22hp (not on the rear wheel from stop) is oversize.
Amazing! I feel a bit bad for not understand the english so well :/
Would there be limited CVT tuning in every different types of scooter, what I meant is that if the CVT tuning of this latest video of yours would be applicable to all types of scooter whether they are 50cc, 110cc, 125cc or 150cc scooter? I'm kinda worried if I will apply this on my scoot, it will give unusual vibrations
The exact info definitely won't apply to all scooters as far as what fits or how to make it fit and so on, but the basics should apply. Before getting into anything like this I would advise checking out your CVT and taking measurements and seeing if there is room for larger pulleys and so on. Before getting into swapping parts from other scoots on, see if there are affordable upgrades that are direct fit for you. As long as parts fit properly and aren't out of balance for some reason, vibrations shouldn't be a concern anymore than with stock parts.
i tried the 139qmb rear pulley, and no matter what i did for spacing between the clutch bell and the torque driver nut, it wont spin freely once its tightened up. i want to use it over the stock rear pulley because it has the straight grooves. but if it wont spin freely no matter what i put for spacing what is the point. did you run into this problem?
I showed any issues I had with that pulley in the video. If you can't figure it out by switching around spacers and such, try examining it compared to your stock pulley to see what may be different and causing the problem.
This is a great series! What has brought me to you is the fact that my yerf dog go kart utilizes the gy6 150cc engine. So many of your videos are very helpful to me for many scenarios. I watched this series all the way through in hopes to get some answers on what might give me more torque for hill climbing power off the line... I do think by what i saw here that there is a way to get what i am after, but upon closer inspection of my set up, i might have more luck just changing sprocket sizes to get my gains. The output on my gy6 just has a sprocket, then a chain to the axle sprocket. What do you think? Even a tire size change will affect my gear ratio, so these are all things i will have to consider. Also, do you think heavier clutch springs, roller weights, or contra spring could help me in any way..? Top speed is nice, but i think i am really after the torque. I would really appreciate any info, or opinions you are willing to share. Thanks in advance
You can try heavier weights at low cost with modding, so you may want to start there.
th-cam.com/video/YkNhqEFeWVQ/w-d-xo.html
Most people that want takeoff and hill climbing do the opposite though, and use lighter rollers and/or heavier springs. CVT mods may get you where you want to be. If not, sprockets should be easier to change than the final drive gears in the tranny.
Thank you for the lightning fast response! That makes perfect since. Thanks for posting the link also. That is going to come in handy : ) You are speaking my language, Inexpensive is good at this point : / I could have bout a new go kart, or something cooler maybe by this point in my investment to get this thing back to good, safe operating status. These will be some great methods to figuring out what works.. Sprockets can be an expensive way to go if you are not sure what you need, so i am not sold yet. I see just as much testing with trial and error in my future there as well.. There is something to be said about ease of installation though ; ) I appreciate your thoughts. I will post my findings.
Last but not least, I ordered the wrong belt size on a bad recommendation. 835 20 30. The belt that was inside the cover is a 743 20 30. Of course now that i have the size, i am finding all kinds of info about this belt working with my Howhit / gy6 engine, but found nothing when i searched for the belt using the engine as a cross reference. It fits tight! Probably a reason for that ehh? I know i should have checked myself first, but my cover is a bit more of a pain in the arse as i have to remove the full exaust every time : /
What could i expect from using this longer belt. It does not appear it would have nearly as much slack as your longer belt in Part 2 of this series, but loser non the less...So potentially slower take off's, and possibly higher speeds? (Exactly what i am trying to avoid lol) Other potential issues? Roller weights? This thing is eating me alive in parts. uggg! If you think the right belt size is the answer, feel free to avoid answering the above, and simply say that. Thanks again : )
One is for a long case and the other for a short case.
www.49ccscoot.com/faq/whatbelt.html
The belt should be sort of tight. It should sit low in the front pulley and high in the rear pulley (near center front, near outer edges rear). If it's too short it can't do that. If it's too long there will be a bunch of slack. I tried a long belt in my OR alternatives video and it made it bog off the line till i took up some slack and it wasn't nearly as far off as a long case belt would be on a short case. A belt that long may come off of the pulleys totally.
Great info on the forum! You are absolutely correct about the longer belt. It is way too lose, & would surely derail from the pulley's. As you already knew ; )
This is all important info I should have researched and known before ordering part's... says the guy who said it is best to do some research before ordering : D Dohhhh! Admittedly i got lazy near the end of part ordering... Always something to be learned from a mistake though. For instance...
I now know that this spare engine I have is a "long case"... lol. Up to this point, everything i have used off of the 2 engines has cross fit universally. (Minor mod's to the carb. for the throttle cable) So I guess I just assumed that the belt's would be the same as well... (spare engine drive belt was toast, so not a total waste to order that belt.) Even better, the kart has a very new looking gates belt already equipped. Probably the only good part made out of rubbed left on this thing! All i was told is that it had sat for at least 10 years... I almost gave up a couple times on this thing! This is why i am so thankful to you and a few other guys here on youtube. Your videos, and your personal time has been beyond helpful! Sorry for all the questions boss. I probably owe you a couple cases of beer by now. (figuratively speaking...)Thanks for all the info and for your patience. : )
Side note: My clutch pulley measures at approx. 142 mm (outside diameter)With the 743 belt installed as lose as it can be, the belt has very slight slack. It wraps the drive boss in the front, and sits about 14mm deep inside the clutch pulley. It also appears from the belt wear marks on the clutch pulley, that the belt never rides much further out towards the edge of the pulley than that. (12mm of non touched surface at the max point of contact) Sounds about perfect i guess as i explain it and consider all the different measurements you came up with in all your tests. My kart honestly feels very responsive the way it is now. Maybe too responsive... With gears or sprockets it all seems so easy. Want to climb? larger in the rear, or smaller in front. Want to go fast? Just the opposite... smaller in the rear, or larger in the front, or both. Essentially the cvt is no different, but is where i get lost when trying to decide what i want it to do. Especially since it constantly changes with rpm. I think i would like it to build just a bit more rev before it engages. As it is now, it climbs well, but requires a bit more speed to carry some hills. If you do not build up enough speed, It seems to sort of of stall in motion. It is great on open flat trails, maybe even a bit slow, but for the sake of choosing 1 thing i would like it to do best, I would prefer for it to build up enough power, so that the reason it doesn't make it to the top of a hill, is because of traction loss, not power deficiency. if that makes since? It needs more turbo power! I feel like heavier clutch springs could be a good start, maybe even some mild shimming. Other than that, it may just be easiest to step up a tooth or 2 on the rear sprocket. Although top speed will suffer, i know i can get what i am after in this way. Great weekend to you : )
my scoot 150Cc, front variator better use same with your degrees? or I use 13,5°?
I haven't really played with angles on the 150, but the same principles in the video would apply as far as changing the angle.
What the best of all yourtest?
What happen if I light weight the clutch?
Drill the three clutch shoes.
Sorry for bad english.
Thank you.
The whole over range kit is the best. The Malossi OR vari and the HOCA rear pulley with Bando belt did well as did the Piaggio rear pulley with HOCA vari and Bando belt. It's all summed up at the end.
Lightening clutch shoes makes them engage a little later.
can you put link of 139qmb/gy6 rear pulley?
+Dario Ortiz www.partsforscooters.com/?partner=49CCSCOOT or eBay or amazon... Lots of places carry them. Just the stock rear pulley for a 139QMB (49cc 4T Chinese scoot).
Do you have a link where to buy that hoca torque drive pulley half(the one with angles)?
PartsForScooters used to sell it. I'm not sure that it's around anymore. Maybe SSP-G now if they have it.
Have you tried using a bws100/rsz100 torque driver which is 124mm diameter compared to 115mm to a stock minarelli TD if will fit nicely on the case without mods?thanks
@@ninoechavez1402 I have not. Anytime you get significantly larger, it could require some clearance work. I think it should swap onto the shaft OK.
Are straight groove pullys always better than multiple angle, if you trying to get better take off and acceleration
No, not always. Some low powered setups benefit from the dual angle grooves. I had better luck on a stock engine with the stock torque driver. With the proper angle, it would probably work well. I think the angles may be too aggressive for stock engines in many cases.
I have a Honda elite with 70cc kit and all the stuff( street set up) and I have a zx pully with duel angle and one with straight I think I’m gonna test both out and see. And I have a few different variator like ruckus variator (bigger) a dio pully( the weights go out farther making higher belt travel) and a stock
WHAT KIND OF rpm tachometer DO YOU USE CANT FIND ONE THE WORKS WELL HELP RUINING A HONDA AERO125 NH I LIKE THE tachometer YOU ARE USING ??
madmarkstoys It's a Trail Tech TTO tach. The main downside is there's no back light. I have a vid showing it more here : th-cam.com/video/zJ9NZxW3-W0/w-d-xo.html
THAMKS I WILL TRY THIS ONE I HAVE TACHS BUT THEY FREAK OUT ALL THE TIME UP In RPMS LIKE THE PULSE IS CUTTING OUT AM A RUN HONDA AERO 80 AND 125 AERO 2cycle guy a have been clutching for the last 15 years you the only guy that gets it!!!! i like your videos bro
Thanks.
Please tell me where did you find an engine for 30$ shipped? Thank you!
I wish I knew where that would happen regularly. A forum member just got an entire 2T scoot in good shape for just more than that. I guess watching classifieds pays off sometimes.
Hey 90gtvery i have a ? i got a 150cc GY6 hothit in my yerfdog gokart and it wont start but when i hold the throttle wide open and crank it it kinda is running but when i let of the starter its dead? Do you think i killed my engine?
If possible, do a compression test. Also make sure it's not just flooded for some reason... stuck float or something like that.
i dont think its compression because it sounds like it normaly sounds when cranking and its not the carb i rebuilt it after it stoped running so what do you think it is?
I prefer to knock out the basics stuff like making sure it's got compression, the valves are adjusted properly, the bowl is full of fuel, spark plug is gapped properly and there's a good spark.
yeah but i have a weird feeling thats its like my CDI thats screwing up.
If you have a spare CDI, try it. CDIs either require a special tester that it seems no one has or you can't check them so it's easiest to keep a spare around and check that way.
What scooter is this? What year, make , model?
2004 Vento Triton
I just need a faster start not more speed
You do know ZX exhaust is very low RPM and will not get you at a higher top as a high rpm exhaust
You know I wasn't testing exhausts? :P This was just a mild sport test mule. It's a backup engine that sits on the shelf most of the time, but has been very reliable when needed.
@@49ccscoot Oh alright, well thanks for all the information which you provided in these three videos. I learned a lot!
Молодцы
Good work!
Thanks.