Ur not taking into account that the movies r cannon to GT's timeline, in the movies goku (just by powering up to ss3) shook the entire afterlife and that was before the timeskip from z - to - gt and he only got stronger from there And remember Goku was only putting out HALF that energy beerus was only using enough to match it so ssg goku is only half of that feet
What is half of infinity ? I need you guys to understand how dumb shit like this sounds … Goku shook the afterlife vs super Goku completely stopping shockwaves that were going to destroy the macrocosm …. Imagine trying to downplay DBS Goku to give GT Goku an edge , is insane. Regardless Super Goku’s feat is infinitely better
Nah we literally talking about the last transformation for all saiyans against a random aah bum that just came, no way Cabba would win or survive a single blow. Power Scalling sometimes sound wierd as hell (nice video)
Reminder that omega shenron was merely STANDING STILL and his passive aura was going to destroy the entire universe and other world,remember the supreme Kai wanted to LEAVE asap,so this would going to happen pretty fast
3 Punches was going to annihilate 3 Infinite sized timespace continuums. Goku absorbs that power in his base…… (regarding the anime) Literally BOG Anime Goku in base would be a serious problem to Omega Shenron…. Goku gets stronger than this by the time of the U6 Tournament. Cabba in base is equal to a Vegeta that surpassed god Goku one arc ago. SSJ4 Gogeta gets pimp slapped
@@antiwave5294Out of context:the 3rd Clash was longer and had more shockwaves than the previous 2 and didn't destroy the universe despite a Clash of hakai and Kamehameha 2:Goku doesn't scale to the shockwaves as he was sent flying by them and they were getting stronger the farther, which Is the opposite of inverse square law, it's clear that the Macrocosm feat Is out of context and Goku doesn't scale to it
@ The 3rd Attack was going to Destroy the Macrocasm. Goku canceled out the attack and it was nullified. Even if he was 1/3rd of the attack power he would absorb the same power in his base then go SSJ on top of it. Then surpass that several times over in subsequent arcs . Tf you mean he was sent flying by the shockwaves? What was the 3 punch shit in the anime then? The 3 punch showed a line between Beerus and Gokus Fist to show that the universe destroying punch was nullified . (In the anime) Are we watching the same show? What do you mean out of context ? So the narrator, Whis, Old Kai and Shin are wrong? Bro go rewatch the anime. It’s not that hard
@antiwave5294 yet It didn't destroy the macrocosm despite It being longer and more violent He Simply canceled It out due to hitting with an equal and opposite force, not due to being stronger than the shockwaves, the shockwaves sent Beerus and Goku Flying and got stronger the farther Recheck episode 12, as soon as they Clash, Goku and Beerus were sent flying by the Clash, the shockwaves only kept getting stronger They failed to portray them as universal as Elder Kai explained how they were nullified, not because Goku was stronger Elder Kai said the shockwaves were getting stronger the farther they went despite they sent Goku and Beerus Flying while they barely started, let alone After they crossed the macrocosm I agree that the shockwaves are that strong, I Simply don't think the anime says Goku scales to them I watched episodes 12, 13 and 14 several times these days and nothing proves Goku scales to the shockwaves
@@simeon8814 The narrator, Elder Kai and Whis stated the universe would be annihilated. Even if Goku was 1/3 of that power (3 punch) aka not scaling to the shockwaves he absorbed the power in his base then surpassed it in Super Sayian Dude. Then gets literally infinitely stronger in future arcs. In the Buu Saga he was already Galactic to Mult Galactic against Kid Buu Them “failing” is simply Ki Control.
Definitely a fairer shake than what Lonk gave, but I'm gonna add some stuff to Gogeta's side of the argument. Whether you believe that its enough to put him above Cabba is up to you, I'm just throwing it out there regardless. 1: Goten directly states Baby is stronger than anyone they've faced up until now, meaning even Teen Baby should be above Kid Buu. As you believe Kid Buu is the strongest Buu and Goten was around to sense his power. If you argue that Baby was holding back on Goten and was actually stronger than SSJ Goten, that still puts Base GT Goten > Kid Buu as he was basing that comparison off a suppressed Baby. 2: Gohan in Base had to hold back on SSJ Baby Goten in order to not accidentally kill him, and Baby saga Base Goku > SSJ GT Gohan. 3: In the Shadow Dragon saga, Goku hoes from needing SSJ4 vs Rage and Naturon, to holding his own with Red Nuova who Goku states was stronger than both, while already tired and hungry from running the Shadow Dragon Gauntlet. That means Shadow Dragon saga Base Goku/Vegeta should be > SSJ4 S17 saga Goku. 4: the statement about Gogeta could just mean his version of SSJ4 is a higher multiplier than the normal SSJ4 one. I mean, you dont really say that SSJ Gotenks is stronger than a normal Super Saiyan, because what exactly counts as a normal Super Saiyan? Once again, this might bot even sway you to believe SSJ4 Gogeta beats Cabba, but that (alongside stuff you already brought up in this video) is why I at least do. Once again, fair shake,and great video.
This video sure loves cherry-picking: 1. Super Sayian grade 4 doesn’t have a higher multipler than grade 2 and 3. It’s literally just super saiyan without the stamina drain (so still 50x) The reason why Goku’s stronger than Vegeta and Trunks is because mastering the Super Saiyan was the best way for him and Gohan to get the most efficient training possible, opting for balance than raw power. 2. GT Goku was able to destabilise Sugoroku Space which was a dimension in between Universe 7 casually with a Kamehameha before he had his tail pulled out. I know this isn’t as impressive as God Goku’s feat but it still shows that base GT Goku while as a kid has dimension busting capabilities. 3. GT is a continuation of the DBZ anime and not the manga. So feats like Buuhan’s screams breaking down the dimensional walls that could collapse the universe in a domino effect and Kid Buu being the strongest Buu is canon to that continuity meaning that GT characters would be scaled way higher. 4. Omega Shenron’s aura itself was the one slowly destroying the universe. Let me repeat that, his mere AURA was slowly eradicating the universe with him putting no effort. If he can do that without even trying then it stands to reason that Omega Shenron with little more effort can destroy the universe and Gogeta curb stomped that!
Yeah you’re coping … ssj grade 4 does have a higher limit then grade 2 and 3 , as when Goku powered up in both the anime and manga , trunks and Vegeta had believed Goku was enough to beat cell. Which means they understood Goku was above them with his higher form which DREW OUT THE LIMITS OF ALL OF THOSE FORMS , as well ITS STATED IN THE DAIZENHUU SSJ GOHAN could’ve beaten perfect cell but lacked the drive to do it as he didn’t want to fight. And to make it worst you already confirmed GT characters don’t have the same feats or destructive ability as DBS , which cabba scales to these people also as well , Cabba scales to a more expansive UNIVERSE CAUSE DBS has a bigger more expansive universe then Z / GT franchise
@@MadderEmo the Z anime also has the macrocosm though? Idk why you think the opposite, also there are different things that show that Super Is lower than what people credit It to be
@@simeon8814 so I’m going off his statement that cites base Goku and Vegeta might be able to contend with Vegito blue , so in that case , if that is the case & Goku feels confident beating a timeline warping Zamasu as well , that cabba should also scale to them in those regards , which would give Cabba a much larger scaling in a vastly bigger verse. My point was never about the macrocosm
Characters who are equal to one another have been shown to take full power blows and not flinch & that logic is also flawed as characters weaker than them can still cause them harm. You’re better off arguing how much of a difference in strength cabba and gogeta has to see if gogeta can still hurt him as opposed to trying to downplay cabba and vegeta being equal in base
Gogeta does win regardless of how he looks. There are some glaring issues in this TH-camrs logic stemming from a misunderstanding on howpowerful Cabba really is. 1. Goku only absorbed God to base in the BoG movie, this did not happen in the Super anime. Instead, In the anime Goku gained a new separate pool of God Ki. That ki does not interact with his power at base, and the same applies to Vegeta, so when Vegetta fights with Cabba at base, Cabba is not scaling up to SSG Vegeta, he is scaling up to base Vegeta using human Ki. meaning, Base Cabba is still around Majin Buu level, NOT SSG level. This only scales him up to Base Goku in GT. I don't even need to correct the other inconsistencies in his arguments. Since this already puts SS4 Gogeta way above Cabba. Just know that there isn't that much difference between BoG arc Goku and ToP Goku, they are not 1000x apart in multiplier. Instead, there isn't much difference in power between arcs in Super, reason being Goku and Vegeta would only learn to use the SSB for real after the Goku Black arc. The manga elaborates this better, SSB has a ki leak issue. When Goku and Vegeta first leaned this form against G.Freeza, they hadn't had any control whatsoever over it. They would waste away a lot of Ki because the form causes a great strain over their bodies. Only in against Fused Zamasu, did Goku finally learned how to keep the Ki from leaking out, allowing for this form to be properly useable. Back then SSG was actually stronger than Blue because it's a form that is as stable as the classic Super Saiyan. In fact Goku managed to hold his own against Fused Zamasu for quite long in his SSG form, he'd only use SSB for one attack and then immediately return and stay in SSG until he decided to attack again. THis lasted until Fused Zamasu used the Rosé form. THen Goku was forced to finally master the SSB form. In the Manga, Mastered Super Saiyan Blue is actually stronger than Super Saiyan Rosé. Or at least, that's what we know. It may well be that Zamasu hadn't mastered Rosé either. So as you can see there was literally no real increase in power between these arcs, what we had was Goku and Vegeta finally getting used to their powers.
1. Super Saiyan 4 at the bare minimum is a 100 times increase from Super Saiyan 3 since Super Baby 2 was somewhat comparable in strength to a Golden Oozaru Goku, and SSJ4 Goku was comparable in strength to a Golden Oozaru Baby means that SSJ4 has 10 times more power than the Oozaru form thus making it a 100 times increase from SSJ3 or 40,000 to 800,000 times increase from base (depending on how strong you think the Mastered SSJ form is). 2. I recommend you watch Broku's video called "Does Cabba Really Beat Gogeta" in order to understand. th-cam.com/video/vvsYqfn-i0o/w-d-xo.htmlsi=-zv4ut5hicEV_i3a
@mrperfectcell5079 the problem with that is the fact that Baby Vegeta was already somewhat stronger than a SSJ3 Goku when they fought, and that was before Baby absorbed the powers of Gohan, Goten, Trunks, and Bra which allowed him to transform into Super Baby 1.
@ I mean if ssj4 is above his then the form would just make no sense to be only be 10x ssj3 as god is a lot stronger then that me wing either golden oozaru is stringer then that or ssj4 is a massive amp on top or oozarue
GT a Hero's legacy states that SSJ4 Goku is roughly equal to Base buu Saga Vegito. Which heavily cliffs GT. With SSJ4 Gogeta basically being SSJ2 Vegito (Buu saga) at best. BoG Godku was far stronger than that.
you do realize that Vegitto is literally the sum of both Base Goku + Base Vegeta multiplied by at least 20. Meaning SS2 Vegetto is 20 times stronger than both SS2 Vegeta and SS2 Goku fighting together. I don't think I need to tell you that the multiplier for this equation is far, far bigger than SS3, being well close to the usual estimation for SSG. You can do it yourself, SS2 was calculated to be at around a 100x multiplier, multiply that by 40x and you have SS2 Vegetto. What's important to know is that, this is the value of the normal SS4 Goku, which is when he unlocked this transformation. It's not at all comparable to what SS4 Goku has at the end of GT during his fight against Omega Shenron, before he grew even more powerful at the end of GT after absorbing all of the Dragon Balls. You guys severely underestimate how strong GT Goku and Vegeta really are.
@@bloody4558 "you do realize that Vegitto is literally the sum of both Base Goku + Base Vegeta multiplied by at least 20." No. He's equal to Goku x Vegeta, per the Super Exciting Guide directly telling us "Goku x Vegeta = Vegito!" Please do not make up saiyan Scholar tier headcanon. God Goku was stronger than anything Goku could have imagined per his own words. That puts him above a hypothetical SSJ3 Vegito. DBGT A Hero's Legacy is the epilogue for GT, and clearly states Base Vegito in the buu saga >= SSJ4 Goku. As the epilogue this can be retroactively applied to the entirety of GT. So Base Cabba > U6 Base Vegeta > BoG Godku (Stronger than anything Goku could imagine + Fusing with vegeta wouldnt be enough statements) > SSJ2 Vegito (Buu Saga) >= SSJ4 Gogeta (Dozens of times stronger than SSJ4 Goku) > Base Vegito (Buu Saga) >= SSJ4 Goku (Hero's Legacy Statements) Ya'll severely overestimate GT.
@@OverlyEpux Super exciting guide Is for the manga You want to go over God>potara statements? Gt hero's Legacy talked about It in terms of multipliers and also Sorry but gt eclipsed Vegito far before that, explicitly since episode 29 with Baby Vegeta, also no retroactive thing, UFP ssj4 wasn't a thing etc...
This Is taking things out of context For One:Omega was going to destroy the universe Just by existing and not implied to be in a long period of time as episode 63 have Kibitoshin wanting to leave BEFORE IT STARTED 2:God Goku doesn't scale to the shockwaves 3:Goku got another ssj4 level Power up as he fought Prè transformation Nova Shenron in base. The Same Who Is above Rage Shenron Who took a times 10 Kamehameha from ssj4 Goku and sent It back Also daizenshuu 10 says ssj3>Broly's Lssj form which Is over an ssj2 difference on top of ssj God being above Vegito Is outright out of context and isn't even supported by the series While you can debate about TOP Cabba vs Gogeta, the other Cabba from U6 tournament doesn't compare to Gogeta Honestly Idk why yall Need to hype this Saiyan so much when Gogeta wins
1. He was gonna destroy it via speeding his negative energy throughout the universe. I don’t think kibitokai wanting to leave makes it an instantaneous feat just that it may not take like 1000 years or something 2.the shockwaves literally came from goku and beerus why wouldn’t they scale? 3.goku could have just been sensing a FP nova shenron or just gauging his strength which makes more sense than him getting a random amp out of nowhere 4. I gave scans as to why it would be the case
@@mrperfectcell50791:that Is irrelevant since he can condense that Power and other Powers together into attacks, 2:you think that, you don't leave a realm universes away instantly before It starts for nothing 2:Beerus and Goku were sent flying twice and the shockwaves kept getting stronger the farther they went, so why would they scale off the shockwaves After they travel the macrocosm despite they are sent flying by its starting point which Is far weaker? 3:Goku never mentioned Nova's transformation, he understood It later, also Characters do get amps out of nowhere in all series 4:you refer to the Vegito thing? Yeah, the Same Goku Who can't sense God ki, thus have no reference of Power, After king Kai tells him:he could kill you, says:even Vegito wouldn't work despite base Gogeta would be able to kill ssj3 Goku too Also Kefla Is a Good example of Potara>Ssg, especially given the definition of potara amp in super
@ 1. Prove he can condense enough power to just one shot the universe and Kaioshin realm 2. No they weren’t lol and even if they were that can just be explained by the shockwave being both the power of Goku and beerus meaning at worst Goku would be half the power of the shockwaves 3. Just because he doesn’t mention it doesn’t mean he didn’t sense it or could still gauge it. Also show me characters getting random amps for literally no reason 4. Goku can guage the strength of characters without sensing their full power. Goku knew that dabura was on the level of perfect cell just from seeing him kill kibito. This is further supported by both ssg and beerus being stronger than what Goku thought. Base gogeta being able to kill Goku is entirely irrelevant as Goku could just be gushing beerus full power based upon what he’s felt and what he has seen from beerus and judging what his full power off of that in which Goku is super multiple times to be accurate when it comes to sensing the hidden depths of someone’s power despite them not showing it 4. Potara is an A x B multipliers so the boots would increase as characters get stronger
@mrperfectcell5079 1:because the negative Energy Is the Same and he also Used other Powers in the ball against Gogeta, not Just the negative Energy, recheck episode 60 2:yes they were, recheck episode 12, Goku and Beerus were sent flying by their Clash and the shockwaves kept getting stronger, it's not their Power because even assuming Goku Is half of the Clash, you would Need to argue the shockwaves got weaker or were as strong while Elder Kai stated the opposite, again, episode 12 3:yes he does Need to mention It otherwise you Just assume 4:yes he can gauge their strength BY FEELING THEIR KI AS WELL, Goku had no point of reference, no ki to sense, Just knew that Beerus could oneshot him, by this Logic, then Goku still failed unless you think he felt his full Power that surpasses even post black arc Goku, again, no ki=no reference and he was like:wow, he can kill me, so he Is above my fusion which can also kill me in base 4:no It isn't in the super anime, It Is more than the combined Power of the 2 fusees at their peak and then gets an infinite boost, episodes 65 and 114, both Kefla and Zamasu's descriptions match This Also if It was Just A x B then Kefla in base would have dominated even Blue Goku
@mrperfectcell5079 also Idk about you but the Elder Kai and Kibitoshin directly said more than once that Kid Buu was a threat to the Kaioshin realm, you want to say Kid Buu>Omega Shenron?
![F.HERO Ft. JSPKK x ลำไย ไหทองคำ x M-PEE - ไม่สนิทบิดหมด (Thai Riders Anthem) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kPJZ0UihBfk/mqdefault.jpg)
give cabba a better design and ppl will prob start to like him lol
Ur not taking into account that the movies r cannon to GT's timeline, in the movies goku (just by powering up to ss3) shook the entire afterlife and that was before the timeskip from z - to - gt and he only got stronger from there
And remember Goku was only putting out HALF that energy beerus was only using enough to match it so ssg goku is only half of that feet
What is half of infinity ?
I need you guys to understand how dumb shit like this sounds …
Goku shook the afterlife vs super Goku completely stopping shockwaves that were going to destroy the macrocosm …. Imagine trying to downplay DBS Goku to give GT Goku an edge , is insane.
Regardless Super Goku’s feat is infinitely better
Using manga cabba is a better comparison since he's weaker
Cabba in the Manga is only relative to pre-Buu Saga SSJ Goku snd Vegeta.
Nah we literally talking about the last transformation for all saiyans against a random aah bum that just came, no way Cabba would win or survive a single blow. Power Scalling sometimes sound wierd as hell (nice video)
This is my favourite db debate
“Please cabba I need this …”
Reminder that omega shenron was merely STANDING STILL and his passive aura was going to destroy the entire universe and other world,remember the supreme Kai wanted to LEAVE asap,so this would going to happen pretty fast
3 Punches was going to annihilate 3 Infinite sized timespace continuums.
Goku absorbs that power in his base…… (regarding the anime)
Literally BOG Anime Goku in base would be a serious problem to Omega Shenron….
Goku gets stronger than this by the time of the U6 Tournament. Cabba in base is equal to a Vegeta that surpassed god Goku one arc ago.
SSJ4 Gogeta gets pimp slapped
@@antiwave5294Out of context:the 3rd Clash was longer and had more shockwaves than the previous 2 and didn't destroy the universe despite a Clash of hakai and Kamehameha
2:Goku doesn't scale to the shockwaves as he was sent flying by them and they were getting stronger the farther, which Is the opposite of inverse square law, it's clear that the Macrocosm feat Is out of context and Goku doesn't scale to it
@ The 3rd Attack was going to Destroy the Macrocasm.
Goku canceled out the attack and it was nullified. Even if he was 1/3rd of the attack power he would absorb the same power in his base then go SSJ on top of it. Then surpass that several times over in subsequent arcs .
Tf you mean he was sent flying by the shockwaves? What was the 3 punch shit in the anime then?
The 3 punch showed a line between Beerus and Gokus Fist to show that the universe destroying punch was nullified . (In the anime)
Are we watching the same show? What do you mean out of context ? So the narrator, Whis, Old Kai and Shin are wrong?
Bro go rewatch the anime. It’s not that hard
@antiwave5294 yet It didn't destroy the macrocosm despite It being longer and more violent
He Simply canceled It out due to hitting with an equal and opposite force, not due to being stronger than the shockwaves, the shockwaves sent Beerus and Goku Flying and got stronger the farther
Recheck episode 12, as soon as they Clash, Goku and Beerus were sent flying by the Clash, the shockwaves only kept getting stronger
They failed to portray them as universal as Elder Kai explained how they were nullified, not because Goku was stronger
Elder Kai said the shockwaves were getting stronger the farther they went despite they sent Goku and Beerus Flying while they barely started, let alone After they crossed the macrocosm
I agree that the shockwaves are that strong, I Simply don't think the anime says Goku scales to them
I watched episodes 12, 13 and 14 several times these days and nothing proves Goku scales to the shockwaves
@@simeon8814 The narrator, Elder Kai and Whis stated the universe would be annihilated.
Even if Goku was 1/3 of that power (3 punch) aka not scaling to the shockwaves he absorbed the power in his base then surpassed it in Super Sayian Dude.
Then gets literally infinitely stronger in future arcs.
In the Buu Saga he was already Galactic to Mult Galactic against Kid Buu
Them “failing” is simply Ki Control.
Definitely a fairer shake than what Lonk gave, but I'm gonna add some stuff to Gogeta's side of the argument. Whether you believe that its enough to put him above Cabba is up to you, I'm just throwing it out there regardless.
1: Goten directly states Baby is stronger than anyone they've faced up until now, meaning even Teen Baby should be above Kid Buu. As you believe Kid Buu is the strongest Buu and Goten was around to sense his power. If you argue that Baby was holding back on Goten and was actually stronger than SSJ Goten, that still puts Base GT Goten > Kid Buu as he was basing that comparison off a suppressed Baby.
2: Gohan in Base had to hold back on SSJ Baby Goten in order to not accidentally kill him, and Baby saga Base Goku > SSJ GT Gohan.
3: In the Shadow Dragon saga, Goku hoes from needing SSJ4 vs Rage and Naturon, to holding his own with Red Nuova who Goku states was stronger than both, while already tired and hungry from running the Shadow Dragon Gauntlet. That means Shadow Dragon saga Base Goku/Vegeta should be > SSJ4 S17 saga Goku.
4: the statement about Gogeta could just mean his version of SSJ4 is a higher multiplier than the normal SSJ4 one. I mean, you dont really say that SSJ Gotenks is stronger than a normal Super Saiyan, because what exactly counts as a normal Super Saiyan?
Once again, this might bot even sway you to believe SSJ4 Gogeta beats Cabba, but that (alongside stuff you already brought up in this video) is why I at least do. Once again, fair shake,and great video.
If i can ask,were do you get the scans for the chozenshuu? I can't find anywere to read even the raws
This video sure loves cherry-picking:
1. Super Sayian grade 4 doesn’t have a higher multipler than grade 2 and 3. It’s literally just super saiyan without the stamina drain (so still 50x) The reason why Goku’s stronger than Vegeta and Trunks is because mastering the Super Saiyan was the best way for him and Gohan to get the most efficient training possible, opting for balance than raw power.
2. GT Goku was able to destabilise Sugoroku Space which was a dimension in between Universe 7 casually with a Kamehameha before he had his tail pulled out. I know this isn’t as impressive as God Goku’s feat but it still shows that base GT Goku while as a kid has dimension busting capabilities.
3. GT is a continuation of the DBZ anime and not the manga. So feats like Buuhan’s screams breaking down the dimensional walls that could collapse the universe in a domino effect and Kid Buu being the strongest Buu is canon to that continuity meaning that GT characters would be scaled way higher.
4. Omega Shenron’s aura itself was the one slowly destroying the universe. Let me repeat that, his mere AURA was slowly eradicating the universe with him putting no effort. If he can do that without even trying then it stands to reason that Omega Shenron with little more effort can destroy the universe and Gogeta curb stomped that!
Yeah you’re coping … ssj grade 4 does have a higher limit then grade 2 and 3 , as when Goku powered up in both the anime and manga , trunks and Vegeta had believed Goku was enough to beat cell. Which means they understood Goku was above them with his higher form which DREW OUT THE LIMITS OF ALL OF THOSE FORMS , as well ITS STATED IN THE DAIZENHUU SSJ GOHAN could’ve beaten perfect cell but lacked the drive to do it as he didn’t want to fight.
And to make it worst you already confirmed GT characters don’t have the same feats or destructive ability as DBS , which cabba scales to these people also as well , Cabba scales to a more expansive UNIVERSE CAUSE DBS has a bigger more expansive universe then Z / GT franchise
@@MadderEmo the Z anime also has the macrocosm though? Idk why you think the opposite, also there are different things that show that Super Is lower than what people credit It to be
@@simeon8814 so I’m going off his statement that cites base Goku and Vegeta might be able to contend with Vegito blue , so in that case , if that is the case & Goku feels confident beating a timeline warping Zamasu as well , that cabba should also scale to them in those regards , which would give Cabba a much larger scaling in a vastly bigger verse. My point was never about the macrocosm
Cabba black vs ss4 gogeta
Na
Deleted my latest comment because I found someone else commenting exactly what I wanted to say. Let us not be redundant here.
Great video!
Vegeta took a full power blow from ssj cabba (+rage boost) and didn’t even flinch. So does he really equal to vegeta?
Cabba doesnt have ssj grade 4 like vegeta. Ssj grade 4 is bare minimum a 10x boost from base ssj
Characters who are equal to one another have been shown to take full power blows and not flinch & that logic is also flawed as characters weaker than them can still cause them harm. You’re better off arguing how much of a difference in strength cabba and gogeta has to see if gogeta can still hurt him as opposed to trying to downplay cabba and vegeta being equal in base
Crapbba is lame and horribly concieved with a terrible design and painfully generic personality, I like Gogeta more so he wins.
Gogeta does win regardless of how he looks. There are some glaring issues in this TH-camrs logic stemming from a misunderstanding on howpowerful Cabba really is.
1. Goku only absorbed God to base in the BoG movie, this did not happen in the Super anime. Instead, In the anime Goku gained a new separate pool of God Ki. That ki does not interact with his power at base, and the same applies to Vegeta, so when Vegetta fights with Cabba at base, Cabba is not scaling up to SSG Vegeta, he is scaling up to base Vegeta using human Ki. meaning, Base Cabba is still around Majin Buu level, NOT SSG level. This only scales him up to Base Goku in GT.
I don't even need to correct the other inconsistencies in his arguments. Since this already puts SS4 Gogeta way above Cabba. Just know that there isn't that much difference between BoG arc Goku and ToP Goku, they are not 1000x apart in multiplier. Instead, there isn't much difference in power between arcs in Super, reason being Goku and Vegeta would only learn to use the SSB for real after the Goku Black arc. The manga elaborates this better, SSB has a ki leak issue. When Goku and Vegeta first leaned this form against G.Freeza, they hadn't had any control whatsoever over it. They would waste away a lot of Ki because the form causes a great strain over their bodies.
Only in against Fused Zamasu, did Goku finally learned how to keep the Ki from leaking out, allowing for this form to be properly useable. Back then SSG was actually stronger than Blue because it's a form that is as stable as the classic Super Saiyan. In fact Goku managed to hold his own against Fused Zamasu for quite long in his SSG form, he'd only use SSB for one attack and then immediately return and stay in SSG until he decided to attack again. THis lasted until Fused Zamasu used the Rosé form. THen Goku was forced to finally master the SSB form.
In the Manga, Mastered Super Saiyan Blue is actually stronger than Super Saiyan Rosé. Or at least, that's what we know. It may well be that Zamasu hadn't mastered Rosé either. So as you can see there was literally no real increase in power between these arcs, what we had was Goku and Vegeta finally getting used to their powers.
Good video broski
1. Super Saiyan 4 at the bare minimum is a 100 times increase from Super Saiyan 3 since Super Baby 2 was somewhat comparable in strength to a Golden Oozaru Goku, and SSJ4 Goku was comparable in strength to a Golden Oozaru Baby means that SSJ4 has 10 times more power than the Oozaru form thus making it a 100 times increase from SSJ3 or 40,000 to 800,000 times increase from base (depending on how strong you think the Mastered SSJ form is).
2. I recommend you watch Broku's video called "Does Cabba Really Beat Gogeta" in order to understand.
th-cam.com/video/vvsYqfn-i0o/w-d-xo.htmlsi=-zv4ut5hicEV_i3a
The only issue I have is that this would rely on golden oozaru being 10x ssj3 when it could easily also be 10x ssj1
@@mrperfectcell5079 you have no reason to assume Golden Oozaru Is 10 x whatever form It Is in though
@mrperfectcell5079
the problem with that is the fact that Baby Vegeta was already somewhat stronger than a SSJ3 Goku when they fought, and that was before Baby absorbed the powers of Gohan, Goten, Trunks, and Bra which allowed him to transform into Super Baby 1.
@@simeon8814 that would just mean you can’t make a definitive claim on it which is fine since I didn’t make a claim on it
@ I mean if ssj4 is above his then the form would just make no sense to be only be 10x ssj3 as god is a lot stronger then that me wing either golden oozaru is stringer then that or ssj4 is a massive amp on top or oozarue
Wrong dragon ball is going back to skill/hax can equalise against raw power!!!
GT a Hero's legacy states that SSJ4 Goku is roughly equal to Base buu Saga Vegito.
Which heavily cliffs GT. With SSJ4 Gogeta basically being SSJ2 Vegito (Buu saga) at best. BoG Godku was far stronger than that.
you do realize that Vegitto is literally the sum of both Base Goku + Base Vegeta multiplied by at least 20. Meaning SS2 Vegetto is 20 times stronger than both SS2 Vegeta and SS2 Goku fighting together. I don't think I need to tell you that the multiplier for this equation is far, far bigger than SS3, being well close to the usual estimation for SSG.
You can do it yourself, SS2 was calculated to be at around a 100x multiplier, multiply that by 40x and you have SS2 Vegetto. What's important to know is that, this is the value of the normal SS4 Goku, which is when he unlocked this transformation. It's not at all comparable to what SS4 Goku has at the end of GT during his fight against Omega Shenron, before he grew even more powerful at the end of GT after absorbing all of the Dragon Balls.
You guys severely underestimate how strong GT Goku and Vegeta really are.
@@bloody4558 "you do realize that Vegitto is literally the sum of both Base Goku + Base Vegeta multiplied by at least 20."
No. He's equal to Goku x Vegeta, per the Super Exciting Guide directly telling us "Goku x Vegeta = Vegito!" Please do not make up saiyan Scholar tier headcanon.
God Goku was stronger than anything Goku could have imagined per his own words. That puts him above a hypothetical SSJ3 Vegito.
DBGT A Hero's Legacy is the epilogue for GT, and clearly states Base Vegito in the buu saga >= SSJ4 Goku. As the epilogue this can be retroactively applied to the entirety of GT.
So
Base Cabba > U6 Base Vegeta > BoG Godku (Stronger than anything Goku could imagine + Fusing with vegeta wouldnt be enough statements) > SSJ2 Vegito (Buu Saga) >= SSJ4 Gogeta (Dozens of times stronger than SSJ4 Goku) > Base Vegito (Buu Saga) >= SSJ4 Goku (Hero's Legacy Statements)
Ya'll severely overestimate GT.
@@OverlyEpux stop right there, do you know that It referred to multipliers and gt Power ecliffed Vegito far before ssj4? Lmao
@@OverlyEpux also It mentions ssj Vegito before the whole "perhaps stronger than ssj4"
@@OverlyEpux Super exciting guide Is for the manga
You want to go over God>potara statements?
Gt hero's Legacy talked about It in terms of multipliers and also Sorry but gt eclipsed Vegito far before that, explicitly since episode 29 with Baby Vegeta, also no retroactive thing, UFP ssj4 wasn't a thing etc...
This Is taking things out of context
For One:Omega was going to destroy the universe Just by existing and not implied to be in a long period of time as episode 63 have Kibitoshin wanting to leave BEFORE IT STARTED
2:God Goku doesn't scale to the shockwaves
3:Goku got another ssj4 level Power up as he fought Prè transformation Nova Shenron in base. The Same Who Is above Rage Shenron Who took a times 10 Kamehameha from ssj4 Goku and sent It back
Also daizenshuu 10 says ssj3>Broly's Lssj form which Is over an ssj2 difference on top of ssj
God being above Vegito Is outright out of context and isn't even supported by the series
While you can debate about TOP Cabba vs Gogeta, the other Cabba from U6 tournament doesn't compare to Gogeta
Honestly Idk why yall Need to hype this Saiyan so much when Gogeta wins
1. He was gonna destroy it via speeding his negative energy throughout the universe. I don’t think kibitokai wanting to leave makes it an instantaneous feat just that it may not take like 1000 years or something
2.the shockwaves literally came from goku and beerus why wouldn’t they scale?
3.goku could have just been sensing a FP nova shenron or just gauging his strength which makes more sense than him getting a random amp out of nowhere
4. I gave scans as to why it would be the case
@@mrperfectcell50791:that Is irrelevant since he can condense that Power and other Powers together into attacks, 2:you think that, you don't leave a realm universes away instantly before It starts for nothing
2:Beerus and Goku were sent flying twice and the shockwaves kept getting stronger the farther they went, so why would they scale off the shockwaves After they travel the macrocosm despite they are sent flying by its starting point which Is far weaker?
3:Goku never mentioned Nova's transformation, he understood It later, also Characters do get amps out of nowhere in all series
4:you refer to the Vegito thing? Yeah, the Same Goku Who can't sense God ki, thus have no reference of Power, After king Kai tells him:he could kill you, says:even Vegito wouldn't work despite base Gogeta would be able to kill ssj3 Goku too
Also Kefla Is a Good example of Potara>Ssg, especially given the definition of potara amp in super
@ 1. Prove he can condense enough power to just one shot the universe and Kaioshin realm
2. No they weren’t lol and even if they were that can just be explained by the shockwave being both the power of Goku and beerus meaning at worst Goku would be half the power of the shockwaves
3. Just because he doesn’t mention it doesn’t mean he didn’t sense it or could still gauge it. Also show me characters getting random amps for literally no reason
4. Goku can guage the strength of characters without sensing their full power. Goku knew that dabura was on the level of perfect cell just from seeing him kill kibito. This is further supported by both ssg and beerus being stronger than what Goku thought. Base gogeta being able to kill Goku is entirely irrelevant as Goku could just be gushing beerus full power based upon what he’s felt and what he has seen from beerus and judging what his full power off of that in which Goku is super multiple times to be accurate when it comes to sensing the hidden depths of someone’s power despite them not showing it
4. Potara is an A x B multipliers so the boots would increase as characters get stronger
@mrperfectcell5079 1:because the negative Energy Is the Same and he also Used other Powers in the ball against Gogeta, not Just the negative Energy, recheck episode 60
2:yes they were, recheck episode 12, Goku and Beerus were sent flying by their Clash and the shockwaves kept getting stronger, it's not their Power because even assuming Goku Is half of the Clash, you would Need to argue the shockwaves got weaker or were as strong while Elder Kai stated the opposite, again, episode 12
3:yes he does Need to mention It otherwise you Just assume
4:yes he can gauge their strength BY FEELING THEIR KI AS WELL, Goku had no point of reference, no ki to sense, Just knew that Beerus could oneshot him, by this Logic, then Goku still failed unless you think he felt his full Power that surpasses even post black arc Goku, again, no ki=no reference and he was like:wow, he can kill me, so he Is above my fusion which can also kill me in base
4:no It isn't in the super anime, It Is more than the combined Power of the 2 fusees at their peak and then gets an infinite boost, episodes 65 and 114, both Kefla and Zamasu's descriptions match This
Also if It was Just A x B then Kefla in base would have dominated even Blue Goku
@mrperfectcell5079 also Idk about you but the Elder Kai and Kibitoshin directly said more than once that Kid Buu was a threat to the Kaioshin realm, you want to say Kid Buu>Omega Shenron?
Ssj4 breaks limits, it doesn’t have a booster
😂