The Rise & Fall Of 405-Line Television | An AMTV Documentary

แชร์
ฝัง
  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 339

  • @pchristy102
    @pchristy102 ปีที่แล้ว +36

    Back in 1970, as a young trainee broadcast engineer, I found myself working in the telecine department at a regional studio. We still operated dual standard standard at the time, switching between 405 and 625 line as required, though both were still monochrome. One day, we had some American engineers visiting, who were quite complementary about the resolution of our 625 images. They were very shocked to be informed that, at the time of their visit, we were actually operating 405-line...!
    405-line was much better than people give it credit for, but by the time we were preparing for 625-line, other improvements had been made to the transmission system, most notably FM audio replacing AM, and negative picture modulation of the vision carrier. Both these gave a huge improvement in both interference rejection and fringe reception, and were at least as valuable as the improved resolution.

  • @stevenoneill7166
    @stevenoneill7166 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    I remember when I were a kid growing up in the early 70's, a lot of houses had 2 lots of VHF aerials on the rooftops ; one aimed towards Pontop Pike (BBC) & Burnhope (Tyne Tees) & the other towards Holme Moss (BBC) & Emley Moor (Yorkshire).
    In the mid-80's, I remember going on a day out to Lincoln & spotting 3 UHF aerials on a house rooftop. The bloke who lived there told me how, prior to 1974, he could pick up Anglia from Belmont, ATV from Waltham & Yorkshire from Emley Moor. Absolutely amazing

    • @christopherhulse8385
      @christopherhulse8385 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yorkshire swiped Belmont from Anglia TV.

  • @montyzumazoom1337
    @montyzumazoom1337 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    We didn't have electricity in our house in Southern England until 1967, when I was 7 years old.
    Soon afterwards my Dad rented our first TV set. I remember the times before the TV, all of us sitting around the kitchen table, Dad reading the newspaper, Mum and Nan knitting and us kids playing cards or board games like snakes and ladders or Ludo.
    On Sundays we were lucky enough to have a roast dinner and afterwards we all sat around the kitchen table talking to each other... Then the TV arrived and the conversation stopped dead. Everybody's chair was turned to face the TV.
    We had 3 TV channels then, BBC 1 and ITV were broadcast on 405 lines, whereas the newer BBC2 channel was 625 lines. Our TV had a switch on the side to select 405 and 625 lines. Of course it was my job to operate this and change the channels. A little bit older now and many years have past but I can still remember that very first television.

  • @davidstone921
    @davidstone921 ปีที่แล้ว +20

    Thanks for this really interesting & excellently put together video.
    As a retired electronics engineer who started off in the 405 - line only days, on domestic television, so seeing in the evolution to 625-line UHF monochrome & then colour TV gradually being taken up by the general public, it was fascinating to re-live part of it. Shortly after the introduction of colour, I moved into the broadcast engineering sector, where I remain almost until retirement. And still the technology marches on, with most people being totally unaware of the constantly evolving electronics behind it all.

    • @darkstarnh
      @darkstarnh ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Me too mate! Studio and location sound.

    • @EdgyNumber1
      @EdgyNumber1 ปีที่แล้ว

      Not only in screen resolution and display but compression, transport and decompression technology. Marches further still as interactive, webTV and streaming become more widespread.

  • @jd4925
    @jd4925 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    I remember our TV with the two channel dials! One was for 405 and the other for 625. A blast from the past. Thanks Adam

    • @AdamMartyn
      @AdamMartyn  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      My pleasure! Glad you enjoyed!

    • @michaelmcdonald2348
      @michaelmcdonald2348 ปีที่แล้ว

      We rented a B+W tv from around 1977 until 1980, a Philips (210 chassis). I had no idea at the time that it was dual standard, 6 push buttons on the front only. The big giveaway was the 2 aerial sockets on the back and I had no idea what the VHF aerial socket was for, only that if I plugged the aerial in there I got a very grainy picture. Turns out that the push buttons could be configured individually for UHF 625 or VHF 405, the mechanism to do this was on the back of the tuner inside the set. Obviously being a rented set all the buttons were set to UHF. I only found out in later years when I picked one up off the local tip and tried to get it going.

    • @James_Knott
      @James_Knott 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      In North America, for a while, many sets also had 2 dials, one for VHF and the other UHF. However, both were 525 NTSC.

  • @CB1000FP1
    @CB1000FP1 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    At the beginning of the 70s I worked for a TV shop as a delivery and installation driver, a lot of our customers still had only 405 line sets with 2 aerials a X, and an H, many were venturing into the new colour sets (the rich ones) where they had to have a new toastrack aerial fitted which was also required for BBC 2 which if I remember was always on 625 lines

  • @ElectromagneticVideos
    @ElectromagneticVideos ปีที่แล้ว +22

    Fabulous documentary! It must have been amazing to see 405 line TV in the UK years before decent quality TV programming occurred anywhere else! regards for Canada!

    • @AdamMartyn
      @AdamMartyn  ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Thank you so much! It may seem primitive now but I think 405 deserves all the credit!

    • @ElectromagneticVideos
      @ElectromagneticVideos ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@AdamMartyn Primitive yes, but when you think about it, all the higher resolution analog formats were just scaled versions of it in either vertical or horizontal resolution, so brilliant original concept. I'm a bit surprised they even tested the lower resolution mechanical TV again the all electronic 405 line - the advantages seem so apparent.
      I have always been fascinated by TV and its history (particularly the technical aspects) - you channel is great - keep up the good work!

    • @michaelmcdonald2348
      @michaelmcdonald2348 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@ElectromagneticVideos i'm wondering if at that time all electronic systems were viewed with some scepticism, there were some limitations with the early cameras (though nowhere near the problems and limitations of baird's system) and cinema at that time and for decades afterwards was based on a mechanical process.

    • @ElectromagneticVideos
      @ElectromagneticVideos ปีที่แล้ว

      @@michaelmcdonald2348 I never thought of that! I'll bet your right. And with vacuum tubes aka values being so new back then it probably wasnt nearly as obvious which was going to be best as is it to use looking back!

    • @telocho
      @telocho ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Couple remarks: a. 405 line service was paused in world war two. So even if it started in 1936, only a few homes had a set. For standardisation or backwards compatibility it was not really needed to stick to that norm. TV service did not resume until at least 1945. b. The coverage in early TV was not national, many relays didn’t start until late fifties and tv sets were still expensive and scarce. c. Countries in mainland Europe started regular tv service in 1950 since they first needed attention on the rebuild, but did this then straight from the start in VHF 625 like in the Netherlands and Germany. 625 in 1950 was technically already possible. They never had the disadvantage of being (or feeling) locked to one system. The late fifties and early sixties was when tv sets were finally selling by the millions.

  • @The_Studioworkshop
    @The_Studioworkshop ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Amazing video! As a collector and restorer of our lovely vintage televisions, and one of 12 owners of one of the rarest pre war TVs in the UK, it’s exciting to see someone shedding some light on our entrance into “high definition” television!

  • @mattikaki
    @mattikaki ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thank you very much. I was working at MTV Finland as a senior video maintenance engineer and was always wondered that your 405 line system. We admired the BBC picture quality which was the very best of all the countries.

  • @roberttucker805
    @roberttucker805 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I was a television engineer in 1985 when the 405 system was switched off and had managed to find an old Murphy dual standard black and white set that I got working and watched the shut down on 405. The set was on its last legs but having managed to unsolder the system switch that would give so much trouble as the set aged and were often soldered up by engineers to be permanently on 625 and replacing a couple of capacitors it actually gave a reasonable picture. I think I had to rejuvenate the crt, something that used to give a few months life to a well used t.v. I don't recall what happened to the old Murphy but I no doubt it's been consigned to landfill.

  • @petermainwaringsx
    @petermainwaringsx ปีที่แล้ว +11

    I remember the introduction of 625 line TV. It really seemed a quantum leap in viewing quality. Also after the introduction of colour the US programs like The Rowan & Martín Laugh In were still 525 lines with black bands top and bottom. The standards conversion equipment used by the BBC was big and expensive, Worth a video maybe? Thanks for the nostalga. Subscribed!

    • @HughTVDX
      @HughTVDX ปีที่แล้ว +1

      In the early days of BBC 2 625 lines Black and white on Uhf the tuners used valves, if you had even a vaguely marginal signal,there was a sort of foggy, grainy effect on 625 pics. 405 pics in comparison had real 'ooomph' (to use the technical term!).. Things changed quickly though after 1969 when all 3 networks were 625 and colour. Valve Uhf tuners were rapidly replaced with much better transistor ones. .

  • @christopherhulse8385
    @christopherhulse8385 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I had an old 405 line TV given to me as an 11 year old back in 1981 and it gave good pictures, BBC1 and ATV (Central after 1982) only but I never watched BBC2 anyway!
    It lasted until 405 closed down in January 1985 and I shed a tear that day.

  • @andrewbeer4715
    @andrewbeer4715 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Thank you for covering 405 line television, one of my favourite topics. I'm currently restoring a 1937 HMV 900 and this is inspiring me to get on with it (it is a very big job!).
    Cheers

    • @stickytapenrust6869
      @stickytapenrust6869 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Careful of that mains-derived EHT!!! One touch and you are a gonner!!!

  • @BlaiddLlwyd
    @BlaiddLlwyd ปีที่แล้ว +16

    My grandparents kept their old monochrome 405-line TV until just before the shutdown. I remember watching it in the 80s, not bothered by the lack of colour or less definition. A lot of older houses in the place I grew up had the old aerials for a long time as well. EMI's system really lasted.

    • @j0hnf_uk
      @j0hnf_uk ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Most of those old VHF aerials stayed up on roofs simply because no-one could afford to have them brought down. I remember seeing some of them well into the 90's! Mother Nature eventually provided the, 'service', though as they slowly deteriorated and came down with the help of gravity.

    • @trevordance5181
      @trevordance5181 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@j0hnf_uk You still see some of those old aerials on roof tops now, even though it is nearly 40 years after the 405 line switch off. Some of those old aerial riggers did a really good job in installing them.

    • @whatamalike
      @whatamalike ปีที่แล้ว +2

      ​@@trevordance5181yep. Where I live is a bunch of old terraced houses built in the very early 1900s. There are a handful of 405 line aerials on some near me and no sign on coming down!

    • @HughTVDX
      @HughTVDX ปีที่แล้ว +1

      By the early 80's some of the 625 to 405 standards converters at the transmitter sites were giving poor conversion quality. Apparently London Ch9 was particularly bad.. Very few people were watching it by then anyway.

    • @michaelmcdonald2348
      @michaelmcdonald2348 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@HughTVDX I've read about that too - on the North Wales coast we had no such issues, the 405 pictures were perfect right up till switch off - I expect the equipment was newer since North Wales would have been one of the last areas to get coverage.

  • @LostsTVandRadio
    @LostsTVandRadio ปีที่แล้ว +19

    The geographical coverage of the 405 line VHF transmitters was phenomenal - many viewers could receive pictures from two or even three ITV companies. For example ATV/ABC Midlands could be seen as far south as parts of Surrey from the Membury transmitter and as far north as Liverpool from the Lichfield transmitter. UHF 625 line coverage was much patchier at the start - many people had to resort to installing masthead amplifiers to get a strong enough signal - particularly for an adequate colour picture.

    • @sundog486
      @sundog486 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      The VHF coverage, especially band 1, caused us to suffer a lot of interference, often from 1000 or so miles away. It was common to get interference fro Scandinavian stations, Southern European stations and Soviet stations.

    • @LostsTVandRadio
      @LostsTVandRadio ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yes indeed. I used to pick up Band I European stations really clearly during particular atmospheric conditions.@@sundog486

    • @shackwishprice6924
      @shackwishprice6924 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Yea I was always turning my home made antenna around good old days

    • @jagmarc
      @jagmarc ปีที่แล้ว +2

      there were enthuiasts who received pictures from other countries they took photo of a very snowy mush and when photo developed it came out perfect HD b/w image with no lines

    • @sundog486
      @sundog486 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@jagmarc Not sure what you are getting at, but the far off signals were often as or stronger than our local ones; Sometimes wiping out the locals for a period of time. Not sure if you've seen any such pictures but they were neither noisy nor HD. There were various propagation modes for these signal, the most common being Sporadic-e and Tropospheric propagation. I received many in the 1960s with home built aerials and modified TVs to accept 625 lines. They were interesting times, but then I discovered girls - there was no competition😉

  • @TheGramophoneGirl
    @TheGramophoneGirl ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I vaguely remember watching the 405 line transmissions in the early 80s as a kid. We had a sony b&w portable tv that received both 405 & 625. When watching tv up in the bedroom I found that the 405 reception was pretty much perfect on a crappy pull out aerial compared to the 625 b&w picture. Though it noticeably had lower resolution and lines, it was overall clearer. I remember being disappointed when 405 was switched off as the portable then only received the snowy 625 uhf picture. The colour tv downstairs was fine - having a proper rooftop aerial.

  • @darkstarnh
    @darkstarnh ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Well memories! I was a sound engineer at HTV Wales (now ITV Wales) during that period. I was on the news crew covering the shutdown at the St Hilary transmitter outside Cardiff. We did an interview with the cheif transmitter engineer, got some pictures of the old equipment and then took the executive decision that we needed to see the 'big switch' thrown and the monitors go blank. Se we cued the engineer to switch it off. Several hours early. When we got back to base the switchboard had blown up with complaints! Bonus facts. The predecessor to HTV was TWW. the scene at 6:13 was from the studio that I spent my first years at; Pontcanna in Cardiff. Also the coming of stereo sound. We were the generation who trained up for its launch, we got a pay rise for the extra complexity.

  • @LostsTVandRadio
    @LostsTVandRadio ปีที่แล้ว +17

    405 lines on a typical 12 inch set of the 50s looked fine, but once larger sets became available the picture was noticeably 'liney'.
    The dual standard TVs of the 1960s were notoriously unreliable, but the 625 picture was a big improvement.
    You can still see the occasional band I and band III VHF aerials on rooftops, unused for around 40 years.

    • @prairiewolfo9274
      @prairiewolfo9274 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      The trouble with the real old sets, free-standing in mahogany cabinets about three feet tall, is that it took an eternity for the valves to warm up and the picture appear after you’d turned it on.

    • @LostsTVandRadio
      @LostsTVandRadio ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Oh yes - all that waiting! I remember it well!@@prairiewolfo9274

    • @LostsTVandRadio
      @LostsTVandRadio ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I remember seeing a transistorised set in the early seventies which had a cathode heater in the tube. Almost instant start-up! I did worry about what an unnecessary waste of energy it was though.@@prairiewolfo9274

    • @sundog486
      @sundog486 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@prairiewolfo9274 Actually it takes my "smart" TV just as long to boot up and display anything sensible!

    • @prairiewolfo9274
      @prairiewolfo9274 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@sundog486
      Wow!

  • @LostsTVandRadio
    @LostsTVandRadio ปีที่แล้ว +6

    The vision modulation on a 405 line set was the opposite way round to that of a 625 set which gave quite a different 'feel' and contrast to the picture, particularly in weak signal areas.
    Typically a 405 line set with no signal had a dark screen - the signal created the light parts of the picture. (The same was true for the French 819 line system.)
    With a 625 line set the screen without a signal was typically white and the introduction of the signal created the dark parts of the picture.
    The positive modulation on 405 also tended to create very noticeable interference problems if unsuppressed electrical devices were used nearby, or if cars without a good condenser passed nearby.

  • @MirlitronOne
    @MirlitronOne 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    In the 1960s and early 70s, our 405-line TV images were always superior to their 625-line equivalents (except when VHF Sporadic E interference caused problems). The arrival of colour brought a distraction from the constant screen noise but it was a long while before the image clarity exceeded that of 405 lines.
    Meanwhile, I love the TV set shown at 3:54 - how much more attractive than the black mirror that looms in the corner of my living room today.

    • @xaverlustig3581
      @xaverlustig3581 15 วันที่ผ่านมา

      This is due to UHF propagation being worse than VHF, not the line number. In continental Europe we had 625 lines on VHF which most of the time also had a very stable picture.

  • @RebeccaPhythian
    @RebeccaPhythian ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Brilliant documentary, as ever ❤ The standard to which you create them is so high 🎉

    • @AdamMartyn
      @AdamMartyn  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thank you so much my love 🥰✨️❤️

  • @kenjewell5619
    @kenjewell5619 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I remember the TV of my childhood having a 405 / 625 line switch.

  • @europa2000man
    @europa2000man ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Great video. In Ireland, most of the 405 line transmitters were switched off by 1978, to make frequency space for Ireland's second channel, RTE 2. The last place in Ireland to turn off 405 line transmissions was in County Donegal. I think this was due to poor signals of 625 line signals up there until a new transmitter at Holywell Hill (very close to the Northern Ireland border, which in turn make RTE 1 and RTE 2 accessible to people who lived in Derry / Londonderry city and county) was built in 1981. This spelled the end of 405 line transmissions in 1982. Even though we had 625 line television about 2 years before Britain, Ireland didn't have full time colour broadcasts until 1976, with Studio 1 of RTE Television Centre in Dublin being the last studio to get colour equipment.

    • @boblowes
      @boblowes ปีที่แล้ว +4

      When Ireland first hosted the Eurovision Song Contest in 1971, not only did RTE not yet have colour television facilities, they didn't have the ability to transmit a strong enough signal to the European mainland. Luckily, their colleagues at the BBC came to the rescue, lending colour cameras, and an OB unit, which broadcast a signal back to London, which was then retransmitted across Europe. Which, considering how tense things were politically in Ulster at the time, was quite an achievement in itself.

    • @fitzperfect
      @fitzperfect ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I recall in the mid 1960s as a student in a marine radio college we had a class outing to RTE in Donnybrook. Prior to RTE's TV service, many households in the east of the country tuned in to British TV services. Most TVs were on the 405 line system whereas the new RTE service was set up on the 625 line system. So RTE supplied a 405 signal to the east of the country and 625 to the bulk of the country. I asked an engineer how this was accomplished. He took me to what appeared to be a broom cupboard. On a stand was a 625-line TV, and on a tripod facing the 625 TV was a 405 camera whose signal went to the 405 transmitters!

    • @europa2000man
      @europa2000man ปีที่แล้ว

      @@fitzperfect I suppose by that time, 405 line technology was becoming obsolete. 625 line was the future. I think the broadcasters knew that, so they were ready for the new technology. Down in South Africa, when they first got television in 1975 or 1976, they had colour equipment from the start.

    • @stickytapenrust6869
      @stickytapenrust6869 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@boblowesThey could transmit a signal to the European mainland through the Eurovision network of cables and microwave links.
      The situation in Northern Ireland was not really something that troubled people in the Republic except those living near the border so it wasn’t that much of an achievement. Loads of BBC and ITV programmes were shown by RTE.

  • @i-a-g-r-e-e-----f-----jo--b
    @i-a-g-r-e-e-----f-----jo--b ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Very early television is so interesting, thank you! BTW, David McCallum the famous actor (who sadly just passed on, RIP) said in an interview that his father placed an order for a TV before WW2 started and it was delivered unexpectantly in 1945 at their door! I love the way earlier TV is different in each region. I was in London 10 years ago and learned that they have some TVs with coin boxes on them to watch them. I was watching a program about people on UK public assistance who would rig the coin box, lol.

  • @gadgetsgimmicksandtech
    @gadgetsgimmicksandtech ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Back in 1985 when 405 line transmissions ceased, I arranged with the IBA as it was then for a friend to have the redundant 625 to 405 line standards converter from the Mendelsham transmiiter in Suffolk. It was several 7ft equipment bays of electronics including a lot of diode matrix modules. An interesting day out. I can't remember now what happened to it in the end, but I still have a note from the IBA about it.

  • @britishsuperbtelevision
    @britishsuperbtelevision ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Wow! This is amazing! I really love analogue TV and B/W TV and all these fab documentaries are very interesting to me, Keep up the great work Adam!

    • @AdamMartyn
      @AdamMartyn  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thank you very much, I appreciate every kind word! ✨️

  • @eoconnor9820
    @eoconnor9820 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    You've got to love an AMTV documentary!

  • @trevordance5181
    @trevordance5181 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    I grew up with 405 lines tv and the black and white pictures it showed were very acceptable with a good contrast between light and dark and the definition was sharp especially when viewed on the screen sizes of the day. Also using a comparatively small number of transmitters almost all of the UK's population could receive the service.

    • @lawrencedoliveiro9104
      @lawrencedoliveiro9104 ปีที่แล้ว

      I never saw an actual 405-line broadcast, but I have seen recordings of, say, earlier episodes of _The Avengers_ compared with later ones. Look at the Cathy Gale episodes, all of which are monochrome, and compare with the first Emma Peel season, which is also monochrome, yet the difference is astounding. I think the earlier shows were recorded in 405-line video, while Emma Peel was on film. By comparison, those earlier episodes look positively murky.

    • @trevordance5181
      @trevordance5181 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@lawrencedoliveiro9104 I would image some of those old video recordings are pretty much worn out by now and are nowhere near the quality they were when first broadcast. As you say the later episodes with Diana Rigg used film for international sales which has been much better preserved and also used many more outside locations and switched to colour filming too.

    • @lawrencedoliveiro9104
      @lawrencedoliveiro9104 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@trevordance5181 Worn-out video doesn’t get darker, though.

    • @michaelmcdonald2348
      @michaelmcdonald2348 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@lawrencedoliveiro9104 The biggest problem when evaluating earlier episodes of programmes like The Avengers is that the conversion was performed by pointing a 16mm cine camera at a monitor. Videotape was expensive so would be wiped and reused. The film transfers could be easily duplicated and used in other markets with differing line standards. Telerecording as it was called had other issues like inaccurate geometry, but in many cases is now the only surviving medium for these older episodes. The later series were made on film purely for sale overseas (particularly the USA where it was popular), later episodes were also made in colour for the same market, while in the UK at the time there was no ITV colour service. The upside is that the episodes made on film can now be seen in high definition in a way not possible at that time.

    • @stickytapenrust6869
      @stickytapenrust6869 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@lawrencedoliveiro9104Cheap film stock did, though. You’re watching a poorly-developed positive print of a negative of a telerecorder’s monitor screen.

  • @LaNwamNi
    @LaNwamNi ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I was living in the Crystal Palace area during the time when 405 lines was transmitted from the BBC tower up there. As a result I remember well the RF interference that would come through audio equipment loud and clear (not good). Playing your electric guitar through an amp would ensure you were accompanied (quite loudly) by whatever was currently on BBC1. You could get some relief from this by wiring an RF choke into your guitar lead (but nothing completely remedied it). I remember a rehearsal room in Sydenham where they had tried to build a faraday cage around the room with chicken wire to minimise the effect this had on an entire band transmitting BBC1. I can also remember this problem affecting some hifi equipment (the cheaper stuff, I recall). And clearly remember Eddie Waring's voice blasting over the PA during an open air gig (Mahavishnu Orchestra, Yes & Lindisfarne) at Crystal Palace Bowl one Saturday afternoon.
    It was an absolute relief when this all came to halt on that fateful day in 1985 when 405 ceased. Good riddance!

  • @davidlally592
    @davidlally592 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Mm in Oct 2016 I was pleased to attend, in Ally Pally, celebrations re the 80th anniv of the 1st hd UK TV transmissions, from 1936 and of course then on 405. There, with a live b+w BBC 2 feed of a concert on HD, they had a computer converter. Turn the dial and one then had the feed reduced to 625 (with reduced res). Turn it again and now BBC2 was displayed on 405, which of course it never originally had! Then turn again and now simulated Baird appeared, with its flicker!! Wonderful..!!

  • @video99couk
    @video99couk ปีที่แล้ว +6

    My first TV was an old 405 line monster with a glass panel in front of the tube. And a dead spider in there. It had frame linearity problems, which seemed to be very common on this vintage of equipment. When I got a Thorn 1500 mono 625 TV, it seemed such a leap of technology. Thankfully I never had dual standard TV, they were unreliable with all those big switches in there.

    • @michaelmcdonald2348
      @michaelmcdonald2348 ปีที่แล้ว

      The 1400 dual standard predecessor was a pretty reliable set. I had a few of them in good working order right through the 405 line switch off, quite often used on 405 in the bedroom with a piece of wire for an aerial.

    • @stickytapenrust6869
      @stickytapenrust6869 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@michaelmcdonald2348Buzzy 625 on a lot of those, which Thorn tried to cure but never really succeeded.

    • @stickytapenrust6869
      @stickytapenrust6869 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Depended on the type of switch. Early d/s sets had a sliding bar with metal contacts which were reliable barring the crap from smokers and coal fires getting in there. Later d/s sets had solenoids attached to the VHF tuner that sometimes got stuck between the two systems (as there was a VHF channel position marked “U” to switch standards to 625 UHF). Or created voltage spikes. Either way could kill the LOPT as the protective layer for the copper turns was often crap, so would often develop shorts. Especially if the LOPT used an EHT overwind rather than a voltage doubler/tripler.

  • @arthurdanielles4784
    @arthurdanielles4784 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    The bulk of if not almost ALL tv sets manufactured and sold in the UK until the JAPANESE imports, were some of the worst electrical items that we Brits were subjected to. Unreliable, overheating and overbearing let alone as we would have said; over here... absolute and utter garbage. The first time I bought a JAPANESE tv set I realized there were those who were capable of making something that WORKED, WAS RELIABLE and worth every penny...

    • @longsighted
      @longsighted ปีที่แล้ว

      The transmitter, PO and studio engineers all lamented that the studio picture leaving the 405 transmitters was far better than any of the domestic TV sets and that comment could be said about the domestic colour 635 line sets.

    • @michaelmcdonald2348
      @michaelmcdonald2348 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I lamented the switch off of the analogue signal because the replacement SD digital service didn't come anywhere close when viewed on a good well adjusted receiver. And there's still fall off the cliff edge issue with weak signals or fringe reception while you always got something with PAL, even if it was fuzzy monochrome.

  • @DaScritch
    @DaScritch ปีที่แล้ว +10

    Just for the joke, "high def" in France was imposed in 1948, with a 819 standard. This is due to the fact that the 441 lines system was an inherited from the German system, during the occupation (The occupation TV for German troops was supposed to be destroyed during the retreat, but let intact and fully functionnal). The "low def" 441 system was stopped brutally due to a fire of the transmitter in 1956, and the very small number of tv sets (less than 500) : offering a vouncher to buy an "high-def" system was cheaper for the state than rebuild the transmitter.
    The 819 "K" system was developed by Henri de France , was to wide on frequency to add a colour system. And funnily, this is the same engineer who created the SECAM colour system, on the CCITT standard 625 lines "BG" system.

    • @xaverlustig3581
      @xaverlustig3581 15 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Why the quotes, 819 lines would be considered HD even by today's standards.

    • @xaverlustig3581
      @xaverlustig3581 15 วันที่ผ่านมา

      PS France moved to system L for colour broadcasts. Still 625 lines, but incompatible with all its neighbouring countries.

  • @BlunderB
    @BlunderB 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Great video thank you for making it! The info is very much appreciated to a ludite on this topic like myself.

  • @IndigoDavei
    @IndigoDavei ปีที่แล้ว +17

    I remember it being so much easier to get a good 405-line picture than a 625 one, but that's mainly because coverage was so much better on VHF. Also, on-screen noise due to a weak signal tended to result more in lack of contrast rather than snow, so you could turn up the contrast to make it a bit more watchable. Obviously, 625 lines was better, as long as you had a good aerial in a reasonable reception area, but 405 wasn't at all bad, and it didn't really look a lot different on smaller screens. Of course, they did experiment with colour on 405 lines in the 1950s (using a version of NTSC adapted for positive modulation) - no idea what that looked like.

    • @ttrjw
      @ttrjw ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Sounds more of a UHF/VHF issue than the number of line. Ireland of course broadcasts 625 on VHF... (or it did until analogue switch-off).

    • @IndigoDavei
      @IndigoDavei ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@ttrjw Yes, and an issue to do with the use of positive modulation rather than negative (regarding the different appearance of on-screen noise).

    • @michaelmcdonald2348
      @michaelmcdonald2348 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      The early UHF tuners used short lived valves which often meant weak pictures lacking in contrast and often the 405 VHF pictures would be visibly clearer and sharper. Things improved once transistorised tuners were developed, but it was much easier to get good VHF reception than UHF.

  • @scottlarson1548
    @scottlarson1548 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I don't know if this would merit a whole video but the BBC, as far as I know, was the first in the world to broadcast digital audio to the public. From what I've heard they had been using NICAM encoded audio in their backfeeds to transmitters and decided that they could just as easily broadcast it to the public so everyone could enjoy digital stereo audio. This happened right around when American television networks were finally beginning to broadcast _stereo_ FM audio.

    • @johnclarke2997
      @johnclarke2997 ปีที่แล้ว

      My memory is and not always reliable. BBC used SiS (Sound in Syncs). But it was never used for public use, only BBC in house links and Tx links. NICAM was based on the need for multiple sound channels going down one multiplex (Approx 30 HQ audio channels IIRC) and the idea was adapted for public use with NICAM728 being developed along with a upgraded SiS system (DSiS Dual Sound in Syncs) for the transmitter sites.

  • @sr6424
    @sr6424 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    One thing I remember growing up with a 405 line telly. It didn't work when the vacuum cleaner was being used. Don't know whether this would happened with a 625 line one!
    Our telly was 19inch. Remember when my friend got the first 26 inch screen colour telly in the area. You did need HD for such a large screen!

  • @Eurobrasil550
    @Eurobrasil550 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I noted last year, while visiting various areas of the UK there are quite a number of Band 1 and Band 3 VHF TV antennas still in situ, when you think although the 405 line system lasted as explained until early 1985, it was running simultaneously with the UHF system for several years, I can't think there can have been many VHF TV antennas installed after say the mid 1970s?
    This meaning those remaining antennas must have in situ around 50 year now, certainly a tribute to qualify and some excellent aerial riggers using quality gear!

  • @michaelmiller641
    @michaelmiller641 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I once had a dual standard television, it was fascinating to switch between 405 and 625 lines and note the difference in quality!

  • @michaeldavison9761
    @michaeldavison9761 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    There was an amusing newspaper advert that appeared in 1964 with little explanation at first. All it said was the mathematical equation 'pi times 625 = 1964'. It was eventually revealed to be an advert for Pye televisions ready for BBC2's 625 line service if you use the usual approximation of pi as 22/7.

  • @MrBillmcminn
    @MrBillmcminn ปีที่แล้ว +6

    One thing that should be an added advantage of the 625 line system vs. 405 line is the audio. 405 line was used an amplitude modulated sound carrier in the mid 1930’s frequency modulation was in it’s infancy still was an R&D project at RCA in the United States. By the time 625 was introduced in the mid 1960’s FM television audio was the standard and brought sound with better frequency response not well heard with the quality of speakers used TV sets, and better dynamic range over AM sound used in 405 line television.

    • @stickytapenrust6869
      @stickytapenrust6869 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      The AM audio for 405 was high bandwidth so there was barely an improvement in FM audio over AM audio.

    • @marcusdamberger
      @marcusdamberger ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The other advantage of FM audio with television is that with lighting from storms, only the video would get noisy interference, while the audio would stay clean without static crashing sound. That was certainly true in north America with NTSC, but I understand SECAM used AM audio modulation before they added NICAM digital audio. My friend who would visit family in France during the summers growing up talked about hearing static during thunderstorms on TV, mind you at his grandparents house, suspect they had older TV well past NICAM introduction.

    • @sundog486
      @sundog486 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@stickytapenrust6869 Agree. The AM sound transmitted was as good as the later FM. In fact most receivers of 625 FM intercarrier sound suffered from a buzz caused by poor performance in coping with the vestigial sideband system.

    • @sundog486
      @sundog486 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@marcusdamberger The incidence of thunderstorms powerful enough to create interference on AM sound were few in the UK. More common was impulse interference from passing cars, this affected video too, as it was transmitted "positive image". Some sets had an impulse inverter circuit to turn the white spots black.

    • @johnr6168
      @johnr6168 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      One of the disadvantages of the AM sound was that it meant the modulation system was the same as that used by the picture. Therefore, poor fine tuning or an out of alignment TV easily ended up with 'sound on vision' and/or 'vision on sound' interference. The later FM sound mostly got around this problem alhtough some TVs still suffered form a picture dependent rattly buzz on sound through poor design. The FM system (particularly when receivers used the intercarrier system) had the advantage that the fine tuning could be adtusted to get the clearest picture because the sound remained clear thorugh the whole tuning range of the picture.

  • @nigelpearson6664
    @nigelpearson6664 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    From what I know 405 was better than VHS at displaying a test card typically type C. The image also was more solid . The lines were obvious if thinking about them. They seemed to disappear if the programme was interesting. I constructed an exact frequency single element aerial for London ITV. It received at 60 miles distance. I often used 405 as my preference due to the better program choice. Hannington that had the mystery alien interruption was 42 mikes away on 625 lines. It required an 18 element aerial for inferior reception. 405 was a practical system. The. Sony TV 9-90 was about £120 if I remember circa £1500 now. 100% reliable over 15 years. 625 often looked washed out in black and white. Perhaps 405 had better contrast. The Sony showed this.

  • @bobdeverell
    @bobdeverell ปีที่แล้ว +2

    During the 1950s, before BBC Divis (Northern Ireland) was opened in 1955 people the only signal possible in central Eire was to receive BBC TV from Northern England. A teenager (BATV fan) in 1960 I was surprised by the number of Band 1 aerials I saw on houses in Port Laoise, Abbeyleix and further south. Reception was usually not possible till after dark and the 3-element aerials were at roof level. I remember looking at several single channel 12" sets at a repair shop in Abbeyleix (1959) that had been recovered as people installed tall masts and switched to ground wave reception from Divis about +100 miles distant. I also vividly remember hearing NYC taxis breaking though on my uncle's 405 TV (41.5 mHz sound curtesy of the high MUF 1960 sun spot cycle).

    • @Eurobrasil550
      @Eurobrasil550 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Interesting post, I remember visiting Ireland in the 80s and seeing many large Antennas on tall masts that appeared to be aligned for reception of British TV , and thinking how popular it must have been, considering the expense it must have incured to install the quite elaborate systems with large masts and antennas, Although I guess once installed there was no real future costs.
      I guess many still survive in situ today?

  • @avtransfersUK
    @avtransfersUK ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Nice video Adam. Rhodesia also had 405 line long before South Africa turned tv on in 1976. The original vhf transmitter (converted to pal )channels were still in use untill quite recently. Im not sure if this is still the case with digital migrations. 😊I transferred some films shot in the 60s of the studios in Harare. Very interesting

    • @stickytapenrust6869
      @stickytapenrust6869 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      It was b/w 625 VHF, Rhodesia never had 405.

  • @g7npl
    @g7npl ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Who remembers the big H shaped TV antennas used for 405 TV''s.m

    • @trevordance5181
      @trevordance5181 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Big H and X shaped aerials for VHF Band 1 channels and the smaller 'Toast Rack' shaped aerials for VHF Band 3. In strong reception areas a bit of damp string would work! In some areas where signals overlapped you could get an extra or maybe even two extra ITV stations from a neighbouring region which was very handy when the different ITV programme companies often had completely different schedules.

  • @simonrussell4986
    @simonrussell4986 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Very interesting, thank you. Bizarre to think that what we call High Definition channels are still limited and buried way down the list on freeview - legacy systems are still sticking around!

  • @tenacious3911
    @tenacious3911 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Something to bear in mind about 405 lines is that the surviving programmes from that era are not always indicative of the transmitted picture quality. Surviving programmes are usually telerecordings (kinescopes for our American friends) and these are often of considerably lesser quality than the original video feed, Telerecordings in which the line structure is visible are usually the result of the telerecording operators placing the camera too close to the monitor.

    • @martinhughes2549
      @martinhughes2549 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I've seena few examples of VT of 405 and it looks generally very good.

  • @richjames2540
    @richjames2540 28 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    You also overlook the limitations of domestic receivers of the time. The difference between the two in the original b/w days was BBC2 was a less contrasty picture. When color started the cameras needed endless line up and both cameras and domestic receivers regular had limited definition and poor convergence which further degraded the picture.

  • @KarlKR_YT
    @KarlKR_YT ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Yet another amazing documentary as always!

    • @AdamMartyn
      @AdamMartyn  ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you so much pal!

  • @ChrisMartin-b7l
    @ChrisMartin-b7l ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Looking back now the pictures look quite fuzzy, but at the time we didn't really see that, not did we miss colour - black and white tv was all we were used to and it was 'the best' as far as we kids were concerned. Of course, when colour came out it was magical. I remember seeing my first colour tv programme - Dad's Army - and being immediately amazed by the coloured titles. One thing I do remember about 405 lines is that my father made his own tv antenna (aerial) - it was an 'H', made out of bamboo canes and copper wire, and was inside the roofspace. When 625 lines came along everyone had to buy a new aerial - a metal thing shaped like a trumpet. Another thing I remember is that my grandparents had Rediffusion, which was a cabled radio and tv service - something I hear nothing about now.

  • @Paul-un5ps
    @Paul-un5ps ปีที่แล้ว +1

    A very interesting video, thank you.

  • @richardh100
    @richardh100 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    liked 405 line TV it was good got half a dozen of them still running perfectly i use a standard converter to run them and just to say I'm a collector📺📺 thank again other great video😊

  • @rogerdarthwell5393
    @rogerdarthwell5393 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What an excellent job you have done Adam!

  • @johannes914
    @johannes914 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    France had broadcast at 819 lines in black and white from 49 to 83...

    • @AdamMartyn
      @AdamMartyn  ปีที่แล้ว +3

      They kept that up for a very long time! Possibly a future video topic! 👀

    • @G6JPG
      @G6JPG ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Originally with the ~11MHz bandwith it needed, but latterly reduced to compatible (with the rest of western Europe) channels, which must have looked horrible.

    • @telocho
      @telocho ปีที่แล้ว

      @@G6JPGThe French Belgians had 819 with the 7Mhz channel width from system B

    • @chrisinnes2128
      @chrisinnes2128 ปีที่แล้ว

      They also had 441 line from 1939 to 1956

  • @owenmcgheeandbdawg
    @owenmcgheeandbdawg ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This was really good to watch. TV history is fascinating. ✌️❤️🙂

    • @AdamMartyn
      @AdamMartyn  ปีที่แล้ว

      Really glad you enjoyed it! 😁

  • @IrishvintageTVRadio
    @IrishvintageTVRadio ปีที่แล้ว +1

    A nice documentary. Thanks for uploading.

  • @warweezil2802
    @warweezil2802 ปีที่แล้ว

    Love that in the background near the end of the clip is the old ITN news theme. Happy memories of hearing that with the early evening ITN bulletin on my nans Sobell b&w set in the 60s

    • @stickytapenrust6869
      @stickytapenrust6869 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      That came from an IBA Engineering Announcements edition at the end of 1984 marking the forthcoming end of 405 line TV.

  • @johnhudghton3535
    @johnhudghton3535 ปีที่แล้ว

    I remember living near to Ringway ( Manchester ) Airport as a kid. Every time an aircraft flew over our house the 405 line single was affected and the picture went "wavy". Never had the same issue with 625 lines.

  • @PhilipMurphy8Extra
    @PhilipMurphy8Extra ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Really good TV history, Thanks Adam

    • @AdamMartyn
      @AdamMartyn  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Much appreciated Philip! Thank you!

  • @BG101UK
    @BG101UK 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Having been restoring 405-line and dual-standard receivers in recent years, I can attest to the very clear, vibrant pictures which can be enjoyed on such sets. Some of the most pleasing-to-the-eye pictures I've ever seen. But I guess I'm biased.
    - The dual standard sets from the late 1960s tend to provide a much better picture on 405/VHF, and I should get the distribution system up and running again, when health etc. improves.

  • @RedboxGuy
    @RedboxGuy ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hi, your videos are the best!

  • @nigelpearson6664
    @nigelpearson6664 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    It's argued that the Sony KV1800 although PAL compatible was really a NTSC set. It had fabulous colour. If right it had a 90 degree defection tube. Delay line model KV 1810 was less impressive. Lucy an archive lady from the BBC told me NTSC recordings on big.reals were very high definition. Ruined when NTSC to PAL converted. She did the Doctor Who 405 line transfers. A beautiful lady with a technical mind and Saab convertible. I upgraded a Garrard 401 for her. She was a friend of the lady who wrote the Dr Who music. I have some 78 BBC programme records if the my boss kept them form Lucy. The Clitherow Kid recorded on Tottenham Court road was one. About 20 introductions per side looking like an LP. Lucy archived these things also. The 401 had two pick up arms. We had a group of new Sony 405 video recorders in boxes with monitors for Lucy. Some idiot threw them away! I think that they were 1964 imported by Debenhams.

  • @dublinbusdude
    @dublinbusdude ปีที่แล้ว +4

    any plans for history of irish tv (both northern ireland & republic of ireland)?

    • @AdamMartyn
      @AdamMartyn  ปีที่แล้ว

      Eventually yes!

    • @dublinbusdude
      @dublinbusdude ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@AdamMartynah, Irish TV be good one as well the UK's ones

  • @local59_Studios
    @local59_Studios ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Something i just realised:
    Colour tv has always existed we just havent had the right cameras until the 70s when it started

    • @stickytapenrust6869
      @stickytapenrust6869 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Or the right picture tubes and decoders in the TVs…

  • @ericrawson2909
    @ericrawson2909 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I love the big triodes at 5:42. I have one, made by STC. Sadly, low emission when I tested it.

  • @rogerking7258
    @rogerking7258 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think that the real meaning of "high definition" is simply "higher definition than you are currently using". But we've now reached the stage where the resolution available is so high that it is actually pointless except on very large screens viewed at close quarters.

  • @srfurley
    @srfurley ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I remember being very sensitive to the 10.125 kHz line whistle.

    • @steve83803
      @steve83803 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Being just a teenager in the mid 70s I could hear the 625 line oscillator frequency at 15,625 Hz, be lucky to hear anything above 10 KHz now 😀

  • @OtherSide..
    @OtherSide.. 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I saw you on chris's channel just wanted to say hi🎉

  • @longsighted
    @longsighted ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Experimental colour transmissions were made by the ITA on 405 line from the Croydon transmitter circ.1964

    • @stickytapenrust6869
      @stickytapenrust6869 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The BBC were doing experimental colour transmissions from Crystal Palace as early as 1956…

  • @AlmostUnique000
    @AlmostUnique000 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Interesting piece of history. I'd just add that 625-Line and the switch to UHF were just coincidentally combined. Plenty of countries broadcast 625 Line and PAL on VHF.
    Ireland for example had PAL I on both UHF and VHF (Band III in later years but originally on Band I too) until well into the 1990s. The current DVB-T system only uses UHF.
    Australia used VHF/UHF with PAL B/G and now uses DVB-T on both VHF and UHF.

  • @ginaweaver4119
    @ginaweaver4119 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The one thing I wish I could see what it looked like on 405 line television is the first Harlech (HTV) logo, because I read that somehow there was no moiré effect on 405 line tv, and I wish I knew what that look like. But I don't think it can be replicated in a digital video. :(

  • @johng5474
    @johng5474 ปีที่แล้ว

    I remember, as a child, our very modern large screen TV that had a lever (think old railway signal), that would swith it from the VHF 405 lines to UHF 625. It was a dramatic change, especially when viewing the Olympics that were being broadcast by satellite, which virtually impossible on 405.

  • @devroombagchus7460
    @devroombagchus7460 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I’m surprised that it took the UK so long to dump the 405 system.

    • @stickytapenrust6869
      @stickytapenrust6869 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The UK is very hilly, which is not good for UHF coverage and all the VHF frequencies were occupied by 405 anyway. It took years to get UHF relay transmitters online to fill in coverage gaps because of said hills. Not very surprising when you think of it that way.

  • @bobdeverell
    @bobdeverell 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I remember being disappointed with the first dual-standard 405/625 tvs. They produced a picture that was inferior to our single standard 405 line tvs. Dual-standard sets were introduced in the UK before the advent of modern comb filters etc So to reduce the patterning and interference from the colour subcarrier and to simplify the mechanics of system switching, manufacturers chose to limit the vision bandwidth. This compromised the video resolution of both 405 and 625 pictures. While we got less noticeable lines with 625, particularly on larger sets, the pictures were not as sharp as our single standard 405 sets. The move to 625 only Tvs, coupled with finer shadow masks etc, allowed later 625 colour sets to demonstrate better resolution of 625 over 405.

  • @stephenmatura1086
    @stephenmatura1086 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It's surprising how the quality of TV programmes is inversely proportional to the quality of the technology by which to view them!

  • @stephenhall6595
    @stephenhall6595 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I recall the London area in the 405 Line era only need one transmitter to cover the whole region with the coming of 625 a lot of relay stations had to built as the UHF transmitter did cover the whole region with a strong signal. Likewise in the Midlands during the 405 line days there where three transmitters to cover the region with the coming of 625 many relays had to be built plus two further main transmitters.

    • @stickytapenrust6869
      @stickytapenrust6869 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      London had two for 405 - BBC from Crystal Palace and ITV from Beulah Hill in Croydon.

    • @stephenhall6595
      @stephenhall6595 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Forgot that BBC 1 Channel 1 Crystal Palace and ITV Channel 9 Croydon.

  • @goodiesguy
    @goodiesguy ปีที่แล้ว +2

    2:35 a very young Petula Clark.

  • @martinwoodworth3715
    @martinwoodworth3715 ปีที่แล้ว

    I still remember it & colour tele appearing. Match of the day.. "for those of you with black & white sets, Leeds are in the yellow shirts" 😁

  • @shackwishprice6924
    @shackwishprice6924 ปีที่แล้ว

    Use to love looking around on vhf 405 years ago watching regional services as some times different programs would be showed to your local service

    • @michaelmcdonald2348
      @michaelmcdonald2348 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I could receive 2 ITV regions at the time (and would probably have been able to get a third with the right aerial) and it was great having an alternative programme (or sometimes one you missed in it's regular timeslot in your own region). Ironically now it's easy to get any ITV region via satellite TV, but the only variations now are local news opt-outs and adverts.

  • @EastAngliaUK
    @EastAngliaUK ปีที่แล้ว

    405 is before my time but I remember the old UHF well and even have some videos of the old signal before digital

  • @nigelpearson6664
    @nigelpearson6664 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I had a Sony TV9-90 dual standard TV. Often used as props in TV dramas. London ITV was possible in Oxford. 405 was my main choice due to content. Picture quality was very good. The lines were fascinating. I understand 405 was a disguise for secret radar production. BBC were obliged to do it Alan Blumlein beintg a key name. 405 colour was a BBC invention circa 1960 in NTSC. RCA adopted some of the BBC improvements. BBC were told to adopt PAL. Apparently 405 with spot modulation was good up to 18 inches. A typical size then.

    • @steeviebops
      @steeviebops ปีที่แล้ว

      I still have one of those now. I've generated some 405 signals just to see how it would have looked.

    • @telocho
      @telocho ปีที่แล้ว

      Philips experimented shortly with NTSC on 625 lines, but that got dropped too for PAL. PAL had royalties to be paid to Telefunken and buying the necessary delay line from them, and NTSC was royalty free by then.

  • @WhatALoadOfTosca
    @WhatALoadOfTosca ปีที่แล้ว +1

    8:06 Pronounced Televish-Airon. UTV is also a Northern Irish station, not an Irish station.

  • @FamtechVideos
    @FamtechVideos ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nice documentary.

  • @Horizions
    @Horizions ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This is a really nice Documentary, In the states, we had NTSC, And unlike 405, VHF Stations can handle Color, without needed to use Strictly UHF.

    • @fattomandeibu
      @fattomandeibu ปีที่แล้ว +1

      NTSC colour was adopted in tests on UHF 405 line, but the result was too poor to be used.

    • @stephenjanes2031
      @stephenjanes2031 ปีที่แล้ว

      Ntsc I believe stood for 'Never The Same Colour' as it use to have colour drift, hence the hue adjuster. The uk held back for Phase Alternate Line (PAL) colour system which eliminated the problem

    • @michaelmcdonald2348
      @michaelmcdonald2348 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@fattomandeibu some of the reports from that time suggested that 405 line NTSC was actually very good, though opinions could have been formed based on seeing a colour picture for the first time. Lew Grade was pushing for that system to be introduced, presumably to increase production of valuable colour material that could be resold overseas.

    • @telocho
      @telocho ปีที่แล้ว

      Most countries outside UK started in 1950-1952 on VHF straight away in 625 lines and could convert to colour on VHF in the late sixties without problems.

    • @James_Knott
      @James_Knott 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@stephenjanes2031 There are a couple of important facts to bear in mind when making those comparisons. NTSC colour was first and in service for years before PAL or SECAM. This meant those later specs could take advantage of NTSC experience. Also, the NTSC colour system was fully compatible, both ways, with B&W. This placed constraints on what could be done. So please, when making such comparisons, consider all the facts.

  • @BlueDeepSeas
    @BlueDeepSeas 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    not forgetting the 405 line whistle

  • @ianhelps3749
    @ianhelps3749 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    405 lines refers to the broadcast definition, but a typical TV of the day would probably only resolve 150-200 lines. Even with 625 line transmissions, you would be lucky to actually get 300 lines on your set.
    I remember watching 405 lines in the 1960s and it looked all right then. When we bought our first TV in 1971 ( instead of renting) it was UHF only.

    • @stickytapenrust6869
      @stickytapenrust6869 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      It was 376 visible lines on screen, but the broadcasters didn’t employ equalising pulses to apply equal distance between the lines. As a result, the lines were often paired up, making the black gaps between lines more obvious…

  • @Charonupthekuiper
    @Charonupthekuiper ปีที่แล้ว +1

    405 line tv signals had a much longer reach. I remember my dad struggling to get a decent picture on our temperamental set only to discover it was in Welsh!

  • @richjames2540
    @richjames2540 28 วันที่ผ่านมา

    The 405 system A was in fact very suitable for NTSC transmissions avoiding the need for dual system sets. The BBC and ITV lobbied fir this but the politicians at Westminster were desperate to get into the Common Market and blocked using a non European solution. Which is why we waited 8 years for colour broadcasting. Interesting as PYE demonstrated colour tv by narrow casting the coronation of Queen Elizabeth II to the Great Ormond Street Childrens Hospital in the mid 50’s.

  • @mjamesthomasb
    @mjamesthomasb ปีที่แล้ว

    I think you have over estimated the Baird mechanical timebase it was only ever 30 line, he did develop a electrical timebase system but it was never taken up by the BBC and they chose EMI's

  • @majortwit
    @majortwit ปีที่แล้ว

    Never underestimate the power of David Sarnoff’s RCA (30 Rock used to be the RCA headquarters.) He tended to squat on new technologies like TV Color and resolution, and FM radio until the corp had everything ready and the affiliates wouldn’t be harmed and bail on him. That way the more nimble wouldn’t take market share.

  • @James_Knott
    @James_Knott 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I would consider that 240 line Baird system to be almost unwatchable.
    In North America, the 525 line NTSC standard was set in 1941, but 441 lines had been commonly used before then. After WW2, there were some changes such as FM audio instead of AM and also rearrangement of some of the channels. Other than that, the system remained the same, even with the introduction of colour. The NTSC colour system was fully compatible with B&W. In Canada, those living close to the U.S. border could receive American TV and TV broadcasts here started in 1952. Colour arrived in time for Canada's centennial in 1967.

  • @RaymondHng
    @RaymondHng ปีที่แล้ว

    0:53 I hear "Rhythm Is A Dancer".

  • @phaasch
    @phaasch 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    It seems incredible now, that Alan Blumlein and his brilliant team at EMI saw 405 lines as a "stopgap", until something better could be developed!

  • @hayleywaalen2612
    @hayleywaalen2612 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    TV History huh? Cool!

    • @AdamMartyn
      @AdamMartyn  ปีที่แล้ว

      Hope you enjoyed! Give it a like and a share if you did!

    • @hayleywaalen2612
      @hayleywaalen2612 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@AdamMartyn Yeah.

  • @alexanderwhite8320
    @alexanderwhite8320 ปีที่แล้ว

    So the 625-line system was the Ultra-HD of it's age. I wonder how 4K video will be compared to 256K video by our grandchildren.

  • @gazzaman28
    @gazzaman28 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Was there ever a "set top box" way of accessing 625 broadcasts on a 405 TV to enable people to watch BBC2 without changing their set? I'm guessing not, but it wouldn't surprise me if a company had found a way to keep existing TVs as usable as possible rather than just throwing them away. After all, TVs were a lot more expensive and less disposable than TVs are these days.

    • @joeynebulous816
      @joeynebulous816 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I imagine a high end VCR (that came with both 625 line input and 405 output) would have been able to. My first TV was a B/W Matsui from the 80s - no remote, and I used to change channel using the VCR remote using it as a set top box.

    • @gazzaman28
      @gazzaman28 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@joeynebulous816 I didn't realise VCRs were around early enough to need to be compatible with 405 TVs, but I guess there would be a few very expensive ones which might. But then again, if you can afford a VCR, you could probably also have afforded a 625 TV too!

    • @HughTVDX
      @HughTVDX ปีที่แล้ว +1

      No,in the mid 50's there were set top converter boxes that converted the ITV band 3 signal down to a band 1,channel so the older band 1 only sets could receive ITV,, could easily end up with patterning on the pictures though.

    • @HughTVDX
      @HughTVDX ปีที่แล้ว

      @@r.h.8754 The main problem with band 3 to band 1 converters was that you were trying to convert a band 3 channel to the same band 1 channel frequency as the local BBC station, that often resulted in breakthrough /patterning of BBC on the converted ITV picture, especially if the local BBC channel was v strong.
      Another problem was the band 1 TV tuner local oscillator harmonic being close to the band 3 signal.. More patterning!
      Lots of articles on the subject in Practical Television. Go to the world radio history site and the mags are there.
      405 is easy to record as an AV in out signal on a 625 vcr, done it many times here. No vcr tuner /modulator used of course.

    • @analogvideochannel4612
      @analogvideochannel4612 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@r.h.8754 Earlier VCRs/VTRs could typically handle 405-line okay afaik, but later ones (VHS HQ, later betamax etc) had noise reduction, sharpness enhancement and such that relied on line frequency so tended to not work very well. Dropout compensation would also not work properly since that also relied on line frequency. Chroma on VHS, NTSC Betamax, 8mm on tape was also rotated in phase on every line on every or every other field depending on format so that would likely not have worked either if it had been a thing on 405-line outside of tests.

  • @2002toyotacivic
    @2002toyotacivic ปีที่แล้ว

    Pleaseeee do SED TVs next

  • @macdaniel6029
    @macdaniel6029 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    HD is just a buzzword. I got a mint condition color TV set from 1979 a few months ago and abandoned my 42" 1080p TV for it.
    I use HDMI to RCA and RCA to RF converters to feed it and the quality is amazing. Vibrant colors, no noise, just a nice sharp picture.

  • @PhilipMurphy8Extra
    @PhilipMurphy8Extra ปีที่แล้ว +2

    If you watch it in the 1080p standards you now on the technical standards of now as suppose to 1935, Important to remember picking from a variety of content probably would confuse peoples minds back then.

    • @EuroScot2023
      @EuroScot2023 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm sure that was very interesting but it would be helpful if you reposted your comment in English!

  • @Sacto1654
    @Sacto1654 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I'm actually surprised that the 405-line monochrome standard lasted so long. The BBC and ITV should have dropped them in favor of the Telefunken-developed PAL by 1970, no linger on till 1985.

    • @HughTVDX
      @HughTVDX ปีที่แล้ว +1

      625 TV on BBC started in 1964,Pal Colour in 1967 and on all 3 networks by 1969,405 was just a duplication after that. Relatively few people used it by the mid 70's

    • @martinhughes2549
      @martinhughes2549 ปีที่แล้ว

      All programming for peak time on all three UK networks was made in 625 PAL colour from the end of 1969, excepting the ITV Colour strike of 1970/71. The 625 PAL luminance signal was converted to a 405 signal for the 405 line VHF transmitter network. SImultaneously the 625 PAL colour signal was broadcast on a newer UHF transmitter. TWO Versions of the same programme a 405 line monochrome conversion AND the original 625 PAL colour signal broadcast on UHF. This was done for 16 years. In Januaryv1985 the converters where turned off and decommissioned along with the VHF transmitters. The 625 PAL version carried on being broadcast and I used to watch a portable monochrome 625 UHF TV at the time. ( as well as colour). I remember using a dual standard 405/625 VHF/UHF TV and switching between 405/625 and UHF/VHF, watching the same programme. Both versions looked the same, although the 625 looked a bit sharper.
      The problem was it took time for UHF coverage to match VHF coverage. When BBC1 and ITV went
      Colour on the 15/11/69, about 40% of viewers had UHF coverage, that increased to 50% by the end of 1969. By the end of 1970 it has crept up to 70%. By March 1974 it had gone up to 94%. Colour TV ownership increase slowly, 0.6% in 1969, 1.6% by the end of 1970, 4% by the end of 1971, 10% by 1972, 19% by 1973 , 30% by end of 1974. By 1977 it had gone above 50%. By 1985 UHF coverage had reached 99.6% and Colour TV ownership was about 84%.
      The UK adopted PAL in March 1966. Mated to system I, broadcast on UHF from April 1964.

    • @michaelmcdonald2348
      @michaelmcdonald2348 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      the issue would have been elderly people who had no desire to upgrade something that was still doing what they wanted it to, and those on lower incomes who would have made up a large majority of those still using 405. add to that the coverage in some regions where UHF reception was patchy or impossible. in some ways similar to the digital switchover, which turned out to be easier to implement due to flat screen technology meaning people would be quick to upgrade of their own accord, and the availability of cheap set top boxes that would work on existing receivers. in contrast, digital radio seems to have gone in a different direction. at one time heavily promoted as the future, now barely mentioned with FM radio still the most common way of receiving off the air.

    • @HughTVDX
      @HughTVDX ปีที่แล้ว

      @@michaelmcdonald2348 405 only sets would have been very long in the tooth by the time the service closed in early 1985 and the cost of keeping a 405 only set running with the inevitable service calls would have been high. Second hand 405 625 sets were widely available from the late 60's and cheap,especially during the colour TV sales boom in 1972-3
      as a result of trade-ins. I was involved in the trade then and from 1975 it was very rare to see anyone using 405 on a main TV set, the odd bedroom set with rabbit ears antenna maybe.
      In 1984 the IBA put a crawling message on Ch9 London saying that the service was due to close soon, contact them. I believe 30 or 40 people did at most.