As a near 60 year old guy, who is a 40 year Shovelhead (and Sporty “Ironhead”) traditionalist, I’d LOVE to take this for a test ride and possible purchase! Love it, great bike and review!
There are people who think that the XR Sporty was not ugly. They will love this one. I hope that HD will make something more classic looking Sporties with the same engine. Like exhausts under the legs, options for back seat, luggage rack and some saddlebags that would make this bike more functional. Most of my Sportster owner friends use their bikes for longer touring / camping too but this configuration does not allow this.
3 GALLONS OF FUEL? Who rides with that? The XR1200 was a dud because of fuel capacity, the FTR doesn't sell with 3.5 gallons, all highly capable bikes that can't travel beyond the city limits.
Almost all non touring bikes are under 4 gallons these days. Yamahas are around 3.7 gallons or so, etc. It is a shame gas tanks get much smaller when all the good riding is usually far out these days.
Run 10psi in rear tire that will help the 2" of rear suspension travel. But do not exceed 10 mph in town only. 2" inch rear travel? Does Harley include free chiropractic Therapy?
Chiropractic therapy is practically mandatory with a Harley Sportster S as well as a racing bike. That's why I prefer the naked sportsbike, a happy place of relative comfort and very good performance.
I think the point is Harley needs to cut the fat, their loyal group is ageing thats why they're changing the style. GREAT! but the younger generation won't pay more for something that is inferior.
@@mrEz87 Yeah, definitely why they're falling behind & losing market share. Young people don't buy "lifestyle" stuff (or maybe they will when they're older, but not now). They need to push into the younger market for sure, but I don't think the Busa has much to do with it. They need some sort of bikes to market to younger people that are still clearly HD. I think this is a really good shot at that, and I agree the MSRP is a bit too high. People may cross-shop this with the Diavel or VMaxx, both of which are definitely better bikes, but they also cost significantly more. So this kinda goes up against the speed twin, but it costs a fair bit more. I'm thinking this may be a bit faster though. This is in an odd spot MSRP wise. Especially when people considering this may consider spending 1500 less for an entry soft tail.
@@MrSlowestD16 my point is not so much about the type of bike but the cost of it. The sportster is almost entry level and a Hayabusa is a finishing bike. And as a buyer it makes me think twice about getting that brand. Also for 5k less I can get a Honda Reble 1100 if you want to have something more comparable.
@@pleasedontwatchthese9593 The Sportster S with all the options it gives you and 120 horses is entry-level? Uh, how exactly? OF COURSE the Rebel is cheaper, it better be, because the Sportster dumps on it.
3 gallon fuel tank, 2 inches of suspension travel, single disc front brake, tiny seat. Pass. Nice engine in search of a bike. Indian's FTR doesn't have much to worry about (though that needs a bigger tank too)
Mr Burns wasn't sure about your attitude at first. However after listening and interpreting your sage wisdom and advice U duh Man to trust. The 900 showdown solidified that point. Tired of listening to the track guys bitch about street bikes. Belly-up to the bar and finance a chat with you any time!
@@stevem4783 Valid point. Everything I've seen so far, however, points to riders wanting mids. Including just about everyone on the recent LA press event
@@misterwin2393 don’t want a twin rear shock bike without rear suspension travel either! They did promote the Bronx at the same launch as the Pan Am. They pulled the plug, so they broke their promise!
@@okie-rider You and me are on opposite sides of this. I always hated the Bronx-it didn't look like a Harley. It didn't look like anything! It was like a sportbike off an shooting game or something, a rote checking of boxes put to production for no real reason other than to say they did it. I kept looking at the Custom 1250 like 'just come out with that! I'll buy one and do my own suspension!' Welp, now they built it and I gotta put my money up! Nobody was buying the Bronx over an XSR900 or a Minster 961, Made In America be damned. Now, THIS with the Pan-America's suspension travel and those $650 mids? That's an American superbike for the ages! And all it really needs is pegs and a back shock!
@@misterwin2393 Yes we are on opposite sides. The Bronx is a naked street fighter bike. I was going to buy it over an XSR900 as long as the pricing was $13k or less. I won’t buy a Ducati because of their engine reliability and electrical gremlins, not to mention they don’t have the dealer service network in the middle of the USA. What bike(s) do you have?
$600 for mids that it should have come with. 120hp compared to the Pan America. It's like HD has to gate everything essential behind massive dealer up charges. I've rode many different types of HD's and now I'm done. Time for a naked bike, the 2021 MT-09 is calling me to the great Japanese beyond.
@@alphacapo Kawi doesn’t have a naked full liter in the US anymore. They do have the 948cc Z900 though and I too would choose it over the MT-09. Though stock for stock, a GSXS 1000, BMW S1000R, or Yama MT-10 all are more powerful than it ( but not enough faster to matter in the real world) at a higher price than the Kawi.
I agree. BUUUUUUUUUUUUUT, Why detune THIS engine to 125cv? I don't get it... It's the same engine. Just give us the full 150 cv and shout to the world: Look, the "Baby Harley" now has 150 cv...
@@edmaluf Look at the peaks and the torque curve. Pan Am has more total power yes, but the S has a much flatter curve and the power comes earlier (and peaks earlier) which makes for an easier around-town ride. It's not always about the peak numbers.
I think this bike is cool.So I called my local Harley-Davidson dealer to inquire about ordering this bike and the sales guy said I have to come in and we'll "work out a price." lol. I see HD is up to the same ol' bs sales tactics. lol I politely declined and will try to find another HD dealer that can be straight forward and make a sale over the phone. I doubt it though! lol
Just call them out on it. If they don't want to sell you the bike at MSRP, find somewhere else that will. Don't do business with dealers that gouge on price.
Your videos are Awesome as always Spelling mistake *Frist Ride * Do edit Love from Nepal I am also a Bike Vlogger in my country Big Fan keep up the good work
@@theguitarhero898 ok so buy one dude like they are not the same bike, scouts are also cheaper fit and finish so that's what you pay for and they do not have upside down forks so that's 2000k right there
I’d definitely opt for mids and look at fitting a Pan America tank to give the bike a decent range- 11.8 litres ain’t enough. Coxidge (sic) issues aside, it looks like a quality built fun bike.
Nice review, I'm picking up my S on Tuesday, I knew from the first test ride I'd have to buy the mid controls, front controls on this bike just don't make it, I guess Harley wanted to make and extra $683 on each S. It takes the twisties great, can't wait to get her out and open her up, I've been riding for 52 years, had a lot of bikes, many different makes, loved my 2022 Fatboy but it was a bit heavy for my likes now, some vermin thief stole it from me a few months ago so I decided to get something lighter and the S is exactly what I wanted. I foresee $6000 plus in modifications. seat, exhaust, mid controls, removing the rear tail light (really Harley?), mirrors and more. Thanks for the review, ready to ride! Peace.
“ you don’t stick your feet up underneath the horses chin” you can tell this man is an American cowboy, if not you doing that thought would not even be considered!!! 💥👊😎
Your stated HP figure was a little weird. You mention another bike with the same engine and you mention a 120hp figure and a 150hp figure without expressly stating the output of this 1250cc engine.
Pan Am is 150 at the flywheel, the sportster S is 120 at the flywheel, but with more torque than the Pan Am. One of the mags will dyno it soon I’m sure
@@slargo83 yeah I misunderstood that from previous info I heard and read. It is a good thing if it got more low end grunt than the Pan am because that has nothing down low.
@@Kwhopperfan pretty sad that they de-tuned it so much for the Sportster. Probably didn't want to blow off the Big Twins quite so badly. They probably figure ADV riders would know the difference, while Sportsters wouldn't. Flip side, with 2 inches of suspension and a single disc brake, gutting it is probably a good idea...
I've been riding for 35 years. 25 years on sport bikes. 11 years of thatbas a control rider at Road Atlanta. The last 12 years on an HD. I just don't like it. Keep the sportster and make a true sport bike.
I think your argument went off the rails with the mid vs forward controls. To each there own. I have both and enjoy both types. You don't drive a car with your feet under you....... and I don't ride a horse . LOL Thanks for the video,
Cool review... good job Harley Davidson... I am sure that Ohlins suspension is cooking up a setup for the Sportster S und also will offer to lift the rear a little... so the dream setup is coming... if you complain about all that money for better suspension you haven't ridden a bike with Oehlins yet... you will find that the bikes becomes a completely different animal... these guys don't make bikes... they make the Mercedes of suspension... I understand that sporty riders don't want to slide off the pegs during an acceleration orgy... so mid controls it is...
Kudus for correctly saying lb/ft of torque. It's so common to see the wrong terminology used. My Harbor Freight torque wrenches and Ego mower box are even labeled wrong, it's pervasive (ignorance & stupidity). We never see meter/Newtons said.
Why did they reduce the HP from the 150 in the Pan American if it's the same motor and why not have dual discs on the front. They could also cut the weight and make it a better performer.
Harley trying to redefine what Sport bikes are. No fuel, no brakes, no suspension, 4" ground clearance, feet forward position. I own a Harley but don't get this abomination.
Harley were making bikes like this and calling them Sportster before sport bikes were invented. It's not a sport bike, it's their thing. Funny thing about the brakes though. My uncle's 1979 Sportster had dual rotors, and I bet anything this stops better. Unless you are serious about lap times on the track and your R6 is just too slow, dual rotors are all for looks. It's extremely unnecessary.
@@JETZcorp Except this bike weighs 500lbs, and has 121hp. Having a single rotor up front is problematic, cuz this thing is actually kind of quick. I think I'd shit myself if my Daytona 675 didn't have as much stopping power as it does.
@@Overtorange You could easily have that much stopping power with 1 rotor. Bikes with dual rotors clamp way less hard than single-rotor bikes do, based on master cylinder sizing. Try putting a master cylinder from a single-rotor bike on your Daytona; you'll low-side the first time you touch the lever. What you lose with a single rotor is heat dissipation during VERY aggressive sustained riding. The Sportster rider might maaaaybe cook his brake if he's desperately running from the police and seriously leaning in the brakes over and over. Harley know that anyone interested in riding that hard won't be buying this anyway. But, they do lose out on the bling factor, and may alienate people who actually think a single rotor only stops half as well as dual.
@@Overtorange Duals don't do anything for stopping power, they're mostly for heat dissipation. With that comes extra weight and maintenance, though. Listen to JETZ, dude knows what he's talking about.
Thank you ! I kinda wanted a comment about the brake performance but I think I didn't catch any. Maybe it's an area that is not spectacular but it's not troubling either !
As an RnineT and aircooled Ducati owner/fan... i assume im the target audience for this... but am i the only one confused by this bike? The Sportster S should have at LEAST had the same level of kit as the harley roadster, but i would have expected it to exceed it... as of right now it just looks like a great engine wrapped in a terrible (albeit, decently pretty except for the exhaust) package. Maybe they have just not talked about their vision for this bike enough, is there a Sportster S Roadster coming? is this a base that will have 12 or so variations like the current sportster does? then maybe i'll consider one of the variants.
@@Ebbeebbeee because harley is a heritage brand taking their longest running bike, making it into a newer neo classic styling and making roughly the same power as my bikes? I also consider myself in the demographic for the indian ftr and maybe thruxton rs, those are liquid cooled, modern monsters are all liquid cooled too. Maybe im wrong, in which case it makes sense why i dont get it. Who do you think is the target demo?
@@dainjahrus I would say target in the indian scout market and people who are looking to get it as a second bike or maybe even a third after a metric cruiser or something equivalent
@@Ebbeebbeee yikes, i hope thats not their marketing strategy for this bike ... I cant imagine the market of 3rd bike people is very large. Scout is a good comparison, tho this is definitely a lot more modern than that one, which might turn off the scout buyers.
@@nunyubizness5483 They have 30% of the market share. That means 1 of every 3 bikes you see will statistically be an HD. And HD's generally will cost more than the other 2. So that's a pretty sketchy claim you're making..
When harley sell the bike with mid mount footpeg, they'll have my money. The forward footpeg is a deal breaker esp consider the short suspension travel.
lol, so many pissy comments. People on the internet absolutely despise HD. I think it's a pretty sweet bike, love that CC and heated grips come standard, I absolutely love both of those features b/c my right hand gets numb (from nearly any bike) on the hwy and I ride year round, but winters are a bit cool, especially at night, but heated grips fixes that right up. I also love the high pipe, especially if it doesn't get hot. I definitely dislike fwd controls though, and $600 upcharge for mids is kinda bullshit. You can probably spend 1/2 of that and install it yourself, but it should cost the same either way, there shouldn't be an upcharge. It's a nice mix of retro old school HD and new technology, and I think stuff like this is exactly what HD needs to try and grow slowly. They can't turn away their existing customer base but they have to try and expand slowly into the younger generation. They can't just make a super sport like many in the comments section is asking for, that would be a disaster and nobody would buy it. I think something like this is exactly what they need. The problem though (IMO) is the price. 50% markup compared to a normal sportster? Why 30hp less than the Pan America? Both of those kinda suck. I think if it made the full 150 it does in the Pan America and also cost maybe 13.5-14k, similar to the soft tail standard, it'd be much better priced. But it's also not outrageously priced. Hopefully they sell a lot of these. I'd def. consider one if I didn't love my vrod so much.
Headlight sucks, did they get that at tractor supply off the shelf because I sell crap just like that at work. Couldn’t be more disproportionate if they tried.
So it’s got a reasonable amount of power. You say it can keep up with some sport bikes. How’s the braking? Can’t help but notice that single rotor. Maybe I missed it, but I didn’t hear you talk about how well it stops as a “sport oriented” Harley.
Dual rotors are mostly for sustained heat dissipation at track speeds. A single rotor can be made to provide 1-finger stoppie power, and has the benefit of lighter unsprung weight. Hell, I've done small stoppies on a 1972 Yamaha 650, the first bike they ever made with a disc. How well the bike actually stops mainly comes down to chassis, suspension, tires, ABS, and WEIGHT. My guess is that based on weight alone, this thing's not going to stop like any R6.
I appreciate both of ya! So, as a sporty bike if the braking was tested a bit that would include brake fade as a result of heat, right? I didn’t really hear him mention the braking capabilities. Did I miss it? Reviewers make a big point of talking about a minor increase in rotor diameter. And they make a big deal of talking about the piston set up and if the brake cylinder is radial and such. Some sort of something to talk about the braking would be nice. Virtually any bike can come to a stop once just fine. That’s not really in question.
@@zero11010 I think the great majority of ballyhoo about brakes is just that. Ultimately on the street it's all about subjective feel, and heat dissipation would be a thing on the track. Most of the rest of it is little more than bling, imo.
@@JETZcorp I ride in Northern California on twisty roads (basically farther up the road on highway 1 where the SoCal reviewers do their thing). Elevation change on twisty roads and some spirited riding is enough to get some brake fade without being on a track. Not on my current R6. But, I’ve ridden other bikes on the same roads and the brake feel after a couple hours just isn’t what you start out with, especially two up. Maybe I’m weird. I do like to hear something about the brake performance. I care more about the reviewers opinion than I care about the diameter and thickness or the rotor or if it’s drilled and slotted and all the other details. I recognize that what happens off a track isn’t the same as what happens on the track, but, I want the info. I don’t plan on doing 150mph down the freeway … but it’s still nice to hear about attainable speeds to get an idea of what the bike is capable of.
It's not really god looking, BUT, it looks much better than the Japanese styling on most bikes of today. And I never thought I'd say such a thing about a Harley... ever...
I have an 07 1200xl. It doesn't like going over 65mph w/o making my feet numb from vibration because of the high rpm. How does the new one handle the highway? I can also have a passenger.
I'm bit confused between Pan America and Sportster S. Although I'm not off-road or trail person, I need a bike that's comfortable for long rides (500-600 miles a day)
@@johnburns8956 Props to you for working at it and evolving. This is the first time I've seen one of your videos, so I'll keep watching to see your improvement.
Version #1 is not fully baked. Too many compromises, and for what? Suspension, tank, heat, seating position... If this was from a brand that's been doing this for a while, it would've been totally panned. Next time. Even John clearly had a hard time not damning with faint praise. We all would've liked to have seen a more resolved product.
That theory of emotional oppositional defiance has the be the only reason H-D would give this thing 2 inches of rear travel yet make the suspension fully adjustable. Maybe there will still be a true performance option to compete against the Indian FTR. This new Sporty is so dang close, though!
@@monkmoto1887 That's what I'm saying, H-D needs to build a true competitor to the FTR. To me, the Sportster S sits the difference between the Scout and the FTR. I think the yet to be announced base Sportster will likely be a bit closer competitor in form, function, and price to the Scout.
I hope something comes out for taller riders in the cruiser class so we can enjoy the new platform without looking like a bear riding a circus tricycle.
The heat from the Pan America exhaust smoked my right shin during a 30 minute test ride. Has the heat issue been addressed with this bike, is it about the same amount?
I didn't feel like it was bad at all, though you wouldn't want to ride it in shorts. The cat is low and rearward in the system. The rear cylinder puts out more heat than the exhaust, and it gets rear-cylinder deactivation. Smart...
Would this Sporty make me want to sell my 2009 XR1200? I don't ride it much anymore, because of the seat height, 29+ inches. Paddling around at a stop when you have diabetic neuropathy and you're numb from the knees down... And my Spyder F3t is a completely DIFFERENT ride (only bought it at my wife's insistence, she doesn't trust my legs), and I DON"T LIKE IT! It's handling DOES NOT inspire confidence or allow spirited cornering. Oh, XR1200 pegs are close to being rearsets, and this 70yo motorcyclist with numb feet who uses a cane to walk has issues with them. My favorite ride nowadays is my 1999 VF750 Magna, does everything I want, but is tooooo quiet. My other favorite was a 2017 Victory Gunner that t-boned a pickup that pulled out in front of me last October. Took 6 mo to heal. Bike totaled. Very unhappy. But! GOD is not done with me.
660 usd to put the foot pegs in the 'normal' place? Really? This bike is such a great move forward, but they just couldn't help themselves doing some weird stuff like forward controls, fat front tyre and single disc. If you want younger customers you have to make a decent performing, good looking bike, no weird stuff.
6:15 "If you're riding a horse, you don't stick your feet up under the horse's chin." lmao!
yet somehow, you could imagine OPP muricans devolving just such a fad
As a near 60 year old guy, who is a 40 year Shovelhead (and Sporty “Ironhead”) traditionalist, I’d LOVE to take this for a test ride and possible purchase! Love it, great bike and review!
There are people who think that the XR Sporty was not ugly. They will love this one. I hope that HD will make something more classic looking Sporties with the same engine. Like exhausts under the legs, options for back seat, luggage rack and some saddlebags that would make this bike more functional. Most of my Sportster owner friends use their bikes for longer touring / camping too but this configuration does not allow this.
That balloon tire and idiotic decision of a single front rotor is showing its a styling exercise
The scout has the exact same thing so do all of the metrics so idk why your mad asf about it
Loved this quick take, so natural, unpretentious. Great job!
3 GALLONS OF FUEL? Who rides with that? The XR1200 was a dud because of fuel capacity, the FTR doesn't sell with 3.5 gallons, all highly capable bikes that can't travel beyond the city limits.
Big tanks are ugly, though
look at it, it's a city bike. the engine is specifically tuned for city use.
Almost all non touring bikes are under 4 gallons these days. Yamahas are around 3.7 gallons or so, etc. It is a shame gas tanks get much smaller when all the good riding is usually far out these days.
Run 10psi in rear tire that will help the 2" of rear suspension travel. But do not exceed 10 mph in town only. 2" inch rear travel? Does Harley include free chiropractic Therapy?
I ride a bike with 1.5" of rear travel (and forward controls,) I'm almost 40, and I get by just fine.
Basically the same as the scout everyone loves to suck off
@@monkmoto1887 kind of like how everyone sucks off the FTR even though it's the same price as the new S, but somehow the S is "way overpriced"
2" (or 1.5") of rear travel is for wimps; there should be no travel at the rear. Forward into the Past
Chiropractic therapy is practically mandatory with a Harley Sportster S as well as a racing bike. That's why I prefer the naked sportsbike, a happy place of relative comfort and very good performance.
The Sportster S and Pan America are the best Harleys they make, clearly.
By a mile yeah I hated the pan america but now I’m suddenly liking it
Comparing 2" of rear suspension travel to ODD 😂😂Classic, laugh out loud, John Burns. Excellent and as always, entertaining, review👍
They should give you a choice of mid or forward controls on the showroom.
Harley says controls are your choice when purchasing. Then if you find you made the wrong choice you will have to purchase the other ones.
A nice choice for a Harley Davidson. So sorry for the
Interruption and the choice my youngsters will make.
Yes they do its your choice to pay or not
Cool bike but it has the same MSRP as the last gen Hayabusa
Different markets entirely though. Nobody is going to cross shop those 2 bikes.
I think the point is Harley needs to cut the fat, their loyal group is ageing thats why they're changing the style. GREAT! but the younger generation won't pay more for something that is inferior.
@@mrEz87 Yeah, definitely why they're falling behind & losing market share. Young people don't buy "lifestyle" stuff (or maybe they will when they're older, but not now). They need to push into the younger market for sure, but I don't think the Busa has much to do with it. They need some sort of bikes to market to younger people that are still clearly HD. I think this is a really good shot at that, and I agree the MSRP is a bit too high. People may cross-shop this with the Diavel or VMaxx, both of which are definitely better bikes, but they also cost significantly more. So this kinda goes up against the speed twin, but it costs a fair bit more. I'm thinking this may be a bit faster though. This is in an odd spot MSRP wise. Especially when people considering this may consider spending 1500 less for an entry soft tail.
@@MrSlowestD16 my point is not so much about the type of bike but the cost of it. The sportster is almost entry level and a Hayabusa is a finishing bike. And as a buyer it makes me think twice about getting that brand. Also for 5k less I can get a Honda Reble 1100 if you want to have something more comparable.
@@pleasedontwatchthese9593 The Sportster S with all the options it gives you and 120 horses is entry-level? Uh, how exactly?
OF COURSE the Rebel is cheaper, it better be, because the Sportster dumps on it.
I'm with you on the mid footpegs. My horse doesn't like those forward chin mounts either.
3 gallon fuel tank, 2 inches of suspension travel, single disc front brake, tiny seat. Pass. Nice engine in search of a bike. Indian's FTR doesn't have much to worry about (though that needs a bigger tank too)
Gigantic exhaust and forward controls
Well, the old Sportster outsells the Indian by a ridiculous number, so I believe that the Sportster is the one that has nothing to worry about.
@@hogsandsooners if you saw the numbers you would change your stance. Indian is biting into Harley sales dramatically.
The first Harley I’d ever consider buying.
After it cooks your nuts, your leg and 140 hp with a single front disc. Ahhhahahahaha
Why? I have an 07 Road King with 117k miles on it.
Mr Burns wasn't sure about your attitude at first. However after listening and interpreting your sage wisdom and advice U duh Man to trust. The 900 showdown solidified that point. Tired of listening to the track guys bitch about street bikes. Belly-up to the bar and finance a chat with you any time!
Everyone seems to like mid controls more on this.. probably why there's a $660 up charge for em. Cant wait to test ride
Harley knows that, which is why they put forwards on (knowing most would want mids). An instant $700 addition for the company…
Guys who want a naked/sport bike want mids.
Cruiser guys want fronts.
This bike appeals a bit to both, so...
@@stevem4783 Valid point. Everything I've seen so far, however, points to riders wanting mids. Including just about everyone on the recent LA press event
I think it’s pretty lame you have to pay extra for that, especially with such a high MSRP, the choice of what you want should be a free option
People always want mids it’s Harley that doesnt
Come on HD give us the Bronx you promised and then we’ll get excited!
They didn't promise the Bronx, they cancelled it! Look up the Revolution Cafe Racer and forget the Bronx exists!
@@misterwin2393 don’t want a twin rear shock bike without rear suspension travel either! They did promote the Bronx at the same launch as the Pan Am. They pulled the plug, so they broke their promise!
@@okie-rider You and me are on opposite sides of this. I always hated the Bronx-it didn't look like a Harley. It didn't look like anything! It was like a sportbike off an shooting game or something, a rote checking of boxes put to production for no real reason other than to say they did it. I kept looking at the Custom 1250 like 'just come out with that! I'll buy one and do my own suspension!' Welp, now they built it and I gotta put my money up!
Nobody was buying the Bronx over an XSR900 or a Minster 961, Made In America be damned. Now, THIS with the Pan-America's suspension travel and those $650 mids? That's an American superbike for the ages! And all it really needs is pegs and a back shock!
@@misterwin2393 Yes we are on opposite sides. The Bronx is a naked street fighter bike. I was going to buy it over an XSR900 as long as the pricing was $13k or less. I won’t buy a Ducati because of their engine reliability and electrical gremlins, not to mention they don’t have the dealer service network in the middle of the USA.
What bike(s) do you have?
yeah man, really wanted a Bronx but I'll still give this one a ride to see if I like it.
Thanks for a good review. “Got away from performance and more toward style.” Isn’t that the whole point with HD?
Love that you start with the complaint
$600 for mids that it should have come with. 120hp compared to the Pan America. It's like HD has to gate everything essential behind massive dealer up charges. I've rode many different types of HD's and now I'm done. Time for a naked bike, the 2021 MT-09 is calling me to the great Japanese beyond.
MT-09 SP I hope
Don't waste your money on that mt9. Just get a real liter bike suzuki gsx-s1k Mt10 cb1kr whatever kawasaki calls theres?
@@alphacapo Kawi doesn’t have a naked full liter in the US anymore.
They do have the 948cc Z900 though and I too would choose it over the MT-09. Though stock for stock, a GSXS 1000, BMW S1000R, or Yama MT-10 all are more powerful than it ( but not enough faster to matter in the real world) at a higher price than the Kawi.
this and the pan america are good steps in the right direction
I agree. BUUUUUUUUUUUUUT, Why detune THIS engine to 125cv? I don't get it... It's the same engine. Just give us the full 150 cv and shout to the world: Look, the "Baby Harley" now has 150 cv...
@@edmaluf Look at the peaks and the torque curve.
Pan Am has more total power yes, but the S has a much flatter curve and the power comes earlier (and peaks earlier) which makes for an easier around-town ride. It's not always about the peak numbers.
@@edmaluf you don't understand horsepower vs. torque. Not only that, but you haven't even ridden it and you're complaining about what your don't know.
The Bronx would have been a much BETTER step.
I rode the PA for 30 minutes.... The 1250 doesn't need less power. My KTM 1290 SDGT will rip both of them.
I think it's a nice ass bike. Just wish the tank is a little higher and dual front brakes. But over all, it looks stunning.
Can’t wait to see what the custom & aftermarket scene do with this
Seems like I would like to add a riser/taller bars. Wonder what the aftermarket customization will look like?
I think this bike is cool.So I called my local Harley-Davidson dealer to inquire about ordering this bike and the sales guy said I have to come in and we'll "work out a price." lol. I see HD is up to the same ol' bs sales tactics. lol I politely declined and will try to find another HD dealer that can be straight forward and make a sale over the phone. I doubt it though! lol
नमस्ते
Just call them out on it. If they don't want to sell you the bike at MSRP, find somewhere else that will. Don't do business with dealers that gouge on price.
I watch ya cyclecruiser. Im thinking abput this bike to. Have a mt 09 now. Same one you had. Dont like the exhaust look. Other than that love it !
That's typical bs Harley dealers practice. Do not call them, just inquire about the price through email.
It's bikes like this is the reason why Harley is in financial trouble again 😅
Your videos are Awesome as always
Spelling mistake *Frist Ride * Do edit
Love from Nepal
I am also a Bike Vlogger in my country
Big Fan keep up the good work
Gotta love the spellchecker in Nepal. Be in the moment.
I am looking forward to seeing the base model. If they can do standard mids, a bigger tank, and taller bars I would be interested as my next bike.
600$ for mid controls!? Should be like that from factory or at least an option. 2" suspension travel is ridiculous.
Scouts aren't any better
@@Ebbeebbeee And harder to convert to mid controls
@@Ebbeebbeee But a Scout is also $3,000 cheaper.
@@theguitarhero898 ok so buy one dude like they are not the same bike, scouts are also cheaper fit and finish so that's what you pay for and they do not have upside down forks so that's 2000k right there
Until 2021 you had to buy forward controls for your bike, now you have to buy mid mount controls 🤣
I’d definitely opt for mids and look at fitting a Pan America tank to give the bike a decent range- 11.8 litres ain’t enough. Coxidge (sic) issues aside, it looks like a quality built fun bike.
It’s a cool bike, I just don’t like the exhaust, it’s location or style
15k ? How much does it weight 600 lbs ? 🤔😖
Don’t forget to spellcheck your titles.
Was going to comment about the long, detailed description that obviously involved some attention, yet the title was typo'd.
Someone doesn't know the definition of frist 🙄
@@alexanderconti521 Webster?
If you're not frist, you're lsat.
Beat off loser! 😂
No back seat for the girl friend?
Nice review, I'm picking up my S on Tuesday, I knew from the first test ride I'd have to buy the mid controls, front controls on this bike just don't make it, I guess Harley wanted to make and extra $683 on each S. It takes the twisties great, can't wait to get her out and open her up, I've been riding for 52 years, had a lot of bikes, many different makes, loved my 2022 Fatboy but it was a bit heavy for my likes now, some vermin thief stole it from me a few months ago so I decided to get something lighter and the S is exactly what I wanted. I foresee $6000 plus in modifications. seat, exhaust, mid controls, removing the rear tail light (really Harley?), mirrors and more. Thanks for the review, ready to ride! Peace.
“ you don’t stick your feet up underneath the horses chin” you can tell this man is an American cowboy, if not you doing that thought would not even be considered!!! 💥👊😎
Your stated HP figure was a little weird. You mention another bike with the same engine and you mention a 120hp figure and a 150hp figure without expressly stating the output of this 1250cc engine.
Pan Am is 150 at the flywheel, the sportster S is 120 at the flywheel, but with more torque than the Pan Am. One of the mags will dyno it soon I’m sure
@@Kwhopperfan nah, they both have the same amount of torque. I think the Sportster will be produced at a lower rpm.
@@slargo83 yeah I misunderstood that from previous info I heard and read. It is a good thing if it got more low end grunt than the Pan am because that has nothing down low.
@@Kwhopperfan yeah I would definitely prefer that on the street too 👍
@@Kwhopperfan pretty sad that they de-tuned it so much for the Sportster. Probably didn't want to blow off the Big Twins quite so badly. They probably figure ADV riders would know the difference, while Sportsters wouldn't. Flip side, with 2 inches of suspension and a single disc brake, gutting it is probably a good idea...
Loving what I See and Hear
Australia waiting on test ride !!!
Think I'm goanna like this One
Great review. Thank you for the laughs!
I've been riding for 35 years.
25 years on sport bikes. 11 years of thatbas a control rider at Road Atlanta.
The last 12 years on an HD.
I just don't like it.
Keep the sportster and make a true sport bike.
I think your argument went off the rails with the mid vs forward controls. To each there own. I have both and enjoy both types. You don't drive a car with your feet under you....... and I don't ride a horse . LOL Thanks for the video,
You actually compared the driving position in a car to the riding position on a motorcycle? I hope you're trolling.
Cool review... good job Harley Davidson... I am sure that Ohlins suspension is cooking up a setup for the Sportster S und also will offer to lift the rear a little... so the dream setup is coming... if you complain about all that money for better suspension you haven't ridden a bike with Oehlins yet... you will find that the bikes becomes a completely different animal... these guys don't make bikes... they make the Mercedes of suspension... I understand that sporty riders don't want to slide off the pegs during an acceleration orgy... so mid controls it is...
Kudus for correctly saying lb/ft of torque. It's so common to see the wrong terminology used. My Harbor Freight torque wrenches and Ego mower box are even labeled wrong, it's pervasive (ignorance & stupidity). We never see meter/Newtons said.
Great looking bike. Then again, so is the Scout 20. Problem is, that bikes looks tiny on a 6 footer. How tall was rider in this vid?
Is there a possibility of riding with a pillion? Tank range?
11.8 liter tank. 5.1 liters per 100km.
So 120miles between fill-ups at most with relaxed riding and early shifting.
A harley that actually looks cool
A little up close exhaust note won't hurt 🙂
Why did they reduce the HP from the 150 in the Pan American if it's the same motor and why not have dual discs on the front. They could also cut the weight and make it a better performer.
$15k is too much for a motorcycle with a single disc front brake, 2” of rear suspension, and no factory no-cost option for mid controls.
Harley trying to redefine what Sport bikes are. No fuel, no brakes, no suspension, 4" ground clearance, feet forward position. I own a Harley but don't get this abomination.
Harley were making bikes like this and calling them Sportster before sport bikes were invented. It's not a sport bike, it's their thing.
Funny thing about the brakes though. My uncle's 1979 Sportster had dual rotors, and I bet anything this stops better. Unless you are serious about lap times on the track and your R6 is just too slow, dual rotors are all for looks. It's extremely unnecessary.
@@JETZcorp Except this bike weighs 500lbs, and has 121hp. Having a single rotor up front is problematic, cuz this thing is actually kind of quick. I think I'd shit myself if my Daytona 675 didn't have as much stopping power as it does.
@@Overtorange You could easily have that much stopping power with 1 rotor. Bikes with dual rotors clamp way less hard than single-rotor bikes do, based on master cylinder sizing. Try putting a master cylinder from a single-rotor bike on your Daytona; you'll low-side the first time you touch the lever. What you lose with a single rotor is heat dissipation during VERY aggressive sustained riding. The Sportster rider might maaaaybe cook his brake if he's desperately running from the police and seriously leaning in the brakes over and over. Harley know that anyone interested in riding that hard won't be buying this anyway. But, they do lose out on the bling factor, and may alienate people who actually think a single rotor only stops half as well as dual.
@@Overtorange Duals don't do anything for stopping power, they're mostly for heat dissipation. With that comes extra weight and maintenance, though. Listen to JETZ, dude knows what he's talking about.
Thank you ! I kinda wanted a comment about the brake performance but I think I didn't catch any. Maybe it's an area that is not spectacular but it's not troubling either !
Oppositional Define Disorder...... Waaaaaaow....the way he describes HD riders. What an epic sarcasm.
I love my 48 , but I am waiting for my HD shop to get a few in to test ride . Great video thanks.
Love it when reviewers don't do their research, the torque peaks at 750 rpms lower in the sportster s making it more usable in traffic of town riding
Have your ridden it? I didn't think so. How about you ride it for yourself before opening yourself up to ridicule about what your know nothing about?
@@nickpapagiorgio8038 he doesn’t have to read it to compare dyno sheets though
@@nickpapagiorgio8038 I've ridden my bigger pan am and it's more than fine in Dallas traffic so the world won't end
@@TheAsheybabe89 dunno sheets don't tell you the seat of the pants stats.
You didn't discuss the small tank. Big miss for Harley.
I wanna see one with mid controls and mini ape hangers
Modern Fat Bob. RDRS standard! Power to weight is most powerful Harley
As an RnineT and aircooled Ducati owner/fan... i assume im the target audience for this... but am i the only one confused by this bike?
The Sportster S should have at LEAST had the same level of kit as the harley roadster, but i would have expected it to exceed it... as of right now it just looks like a great engine wrapped in a terrible (albeit, decently pretty except for the exhaust) package.
Maybe they have just not talked about their vision for this bike enough, is there a Sportster S Roadster coming? is this a base that will have 12 or so variations like the current sportster does? then maybe i'll consider one of the variants.
Why would the guy with two retro air cooled nakes bikes be the target market
@@Ebbeebbeee because harley is a heritage brand taking their longest running bike, making it into a newer neo classic styling and making roughly the same power as my bikes?
I also consider myself in the demographic for the indian ftr and maybe thruxton rs, those are liquid cooled, modern monsters are all liquid cooled too. Maybe im wrong, in which case it makes sense why i dont get it.
Who do you think is the target demo?
@@dainjahrus I would say target in the indian scout market and people who are looking to get it as a second bike or maybe even a third after a metric cruiser or something equivalent
@@Ebbeebbeee yikes, i hope thats not their marketing strategy for this bike ... I cant imagine the market of 3rd bike people is very large.
Scout is a good comparison, tho this is definitely a lot more modern than that one, which might turn off the scout buyers.
It warms my heart to see Harley is back in the game
Harley was never in the game
They’re in somebody’s game 😁😁😁
@@nunyubizness5483 They have 30% of the market share. That means 1 of every 3 bikes you see will statistically be an HD. And HD's generally will cost more than the other 2. So that's a pretty sketchy claim you're making..
@@nunyubizness5483 You must be a newbie to riding or a complete douche🧐
And either way it doesn’t matter
I bought a Pan American and love it, but this piece of crap would not even get me into a HD showroom. Give us the Bronx!!
This dude is the best motorcycle review guy out there.
They should've made it a chain final drive.
Nice review John!
This could have been the HD Bronx :(
Listening to test riders on LA freeway, you guys sounded like flying a Huey into Nam.
When harley sell the bike with mid mount footpeg, they'll have my money. The forward footpeg is a deal breaker esp consider the short suspension travel.
lol, so many pissy comments. People on the internet absolutely despise HD. I think it's a pretty sweet bike, love that CC and heated grips come standard, I absolutely love both of those features b/c my right hand gets numb (from nearly any bike) on the hwy and I ride year round, but winters are a bit cool, especially at night, but heated grips fixes that right up.
I also love the high pipe, especially if it doesn't get hot. I definitely dislike fwd controls though, and $600 upcharge for mids is kinda bullshit. You can probably spend 1/2 of that and install it yourself, but it should cost the same either way, there shouldn't be an upcharge.
It's a nice mix of retro old school HD and new technology, and I think stuff like this is exactly what HD needs to try and grow slowly. They can't turn away their existing customer base but they have to try and expand slowly into the younger generation. They can't just make a super sport like many in the comments section is asking for, that would be a disaster and nobody would buy it. I think something like this is exactly what they need. The problem though (IMO) is the price. 50% markup compared to a normal sportster? Why 30hp less than the Pan America? Both of those kinda suck. I think if it made the full 150 it does in the Pan America and also cost maybe 13.5-14k, similar to the soft tail standard, it'd be much better priced. But it's also not outrageously priced. Hopefully they sell a lot of these. I'd def. consider one if I didn't love my vrod so much.
Headlight sucks, did they get that at tractor supply off the shelf because I sell crap just like that at work. Couldn’t be more disproportionate if they tried.
Does not have rear cylinder deactivation.
So it’s got a reasonable amount of power. You say it can keep up with some sport bikes. How’s the braking? Can’t help but notice that single rotor. Maybe I missed it, but I didn’t hear you talk about how well it stops as a “sport oriented” Harley.
Dual rotors are mostly for sustained heat dissipation at track speeds. A single rotor can be made to provide 1-finger stoppie power, and has the benefit of lighter unsprung weight. Hell, I've done small stoppies on a 1972 Yamaha 650, the first bike they ever made with a disc. How well the bike actually stops mainly comes down to chassis, suspension, tires, ABS, and WEIGHT. My guess is that based on weight alone, this thing's not going to stop like any R6.
Dual rotors don't make you stop faster, they just don't over heat.
I appreciate both of ya! So, as a sporty bike if the braking was tested a bit that would include brake fade as a result of heat, right? I didn’t really hear him mention the braking capabilities. Did I miss it?
Reviewers make a big point of talking about a minor increase in rotor diameter. And they make a big deal of talking about the piston set up and if the brake cylinder is radial and such.
Some sort of something to talk about the braking would be nice. Virtually any bike can come to a stop once just fine. That’s not really in question.
@@zero11010 I think the great majority of ballyhoo about brakes is just that. Ultimately on the street it's all about subjective feel, and heat dissipation would be a thing on the track. Most of the rest of it is little more than bling, imo.
@@JETZcorp I ride in Northern California on twisty roads (basically farther up the road on highway 1 where the SoCal reviewers do their thing). Elevation change on twisty roads and some spirited riding is enough to get some brake fade without being on a track.
Not on my current R6. But, I’ve ridden other bikes on the same roads and the brake feel after a couple hours just isn’t what you start out with, especially two up.
Maybe I’m weird. I do like to hear something about the brake performance. I care more about the reviewers opinion than I care about the diameter and thickness or the rotor or if it’s drilled and slotted and all the other details.
I recognize that what happens off a track isn’t the same as what happens on the track, but, I want the info. I don’t plan on doing 150mph down the freeway … but it’s still nice to hear about attainable speeds to get an idea of what the bike is capable of.
Looks great. Looking forward to seeing it compared to the Scout. Hope a 150hp version comes.
Man.... mid or even rear mount pegs, and enough suspension and lean angle to use it as a cafe racer or kinda retro naked street fighter and I'd be in
I dont understand why harley insist on using 1 brake rotor at the front... hmmmmm why???
It's not really god looking, BUT, it looks much better than the Japanese styling on most bikes of today. And I never thought I'd say such a thing about a Harley... ever...
$15K for a sportster 🤣
15k for a color scout with abs so idk what you want man
Hey guys, your website is down at the moment.
Great review! Thx
I have an 07 1200xl. It doesn't like going over 65mph w/o making my feet numb from vibration because of the high rpm. How does the new one handle the highway? I can also have a passenger.
I'm bit confused between Pan America and Sportster S. Although I'm not off-road or trail person, I need a bike that's comfortable for long rides (500-600 miles a day)
I bought a pan am special and let me tell you it's plenty comfy for the long haul and I'm 6'4
Hard to stand up with forward pegs
This guy has a speaking presence made for print.
Which is, no shit, the reason I went into print 30 years ago. I feel like I'm evolving, tho, gradually...
@@johnburns8956 Props to you for working at it and evolving. This is the first time I've seen one of your videos, so I'll keep watching to see your improvement.
Version #1 is not fully baked. Too many compromises, and for what? Suspension, tank, heat, seating position... If this was from a brand that's been doing this for a while, it would've been totally panned. Next time. Even John clearly had a hard time not damning with faint praise. We all would've liked to have seen a more resolved product.
Why is this bike so small? Surely, this drives away most potential buyers?
Can we end the rock concert and get on with it.
Will this be offered in 883 smaller varient maybe cheaper because I thought they where trying to bring new riders to the table 🤔
Harley going after FTR and scout bobber
That theory of emotional oppositional defiance has the be the only reason H-D would give this thing 2 inches of rear travel yet make the suspension fully adjustable. Maybe there will still be a true performance option to compete against the Indian FTR. This new Sporty is so dang close, though!
Doubt, it’s a competitor for the scout. The ftr is a taller more tippy bike basically a hyper naked this is a big scout
@@monkmoto1887 That's what I'm saying, H-D needs to build a true competitor to the FTR. To me, the Sportster S sits the difference between the Scout and the FTR. I think the yet to be announced base Sportster will likely be a bit closer competitor in form, function, and price to the Scout.
I would buy this as my first Harley
can you lower the seat?
Is that a radiator I'm seeing?
I hope something comes out for taller riders in the cruiser class so we can enjoy the new platform without looking like a bear riding a circus tricycle.
But can you get it with forward controls?
The heat from the Pan America exhaust smoked my right shin during a 30 minute test ride. Has the heat issue been addressed with this bike, is it about the same amount?
I didn't feel like it was bad at all, though you wouldn't want to ride it in shorts. The cat is low and rearward in the system. The rear cylinder puts out more heat than the exhaust, and it gets rear-cylinder deactivation. Smart...
Mid controls is a joke unless you are really short, like wtf did you even ride the bike? 😂
Would this Sporty make me want to sell my 2009 XR1200? I don't ride it much anymore, because of the seat height, 29+ inches. Paddling around at a stop when you have diabetic neuropathy and you're numb from the knees down... And my Spyder F3t is a completely DIFFERENT ride (only bought it at my wife's insistence, she doesn't trust my legs), and I DON"T LIKE IT! It's handling DOES NOT inspire confidence or allow spirited cornering. Oh, XR1200 pegs are close to being rearsets, and this 70yo motorcyclist with numb feet who uses a cane to walk has issues with them. My favorite ride nowadays is my 1999 VF750 Magna, does everything I want, but is tooooo quiet. My other favorite was a 2017 Victory Gunner that t-boned a pickup that pulled out in front of me last October. Took 6 mo to heal. Bike totaled. Very unhappy. But! GOD is not done with me.
too many questions, you need to take one for a test spin. Wonder if they'll offer them on both forward and mid controls?
How Tall are You. . .
Will 6'1" fit mid mounts ok ???
660 usd to put the foot pegs in the 'normal' place? Really? This bike is such a great move forward, but they just couldn't help themselves doing some weird stuff like forward controls, fat front tyre and single disc. If you want younger customers you have to make a decent performing, good looking bike, no weird stuff.
big heavy bike for one front disc brake?
only if you don't think being able to make the front tire howl like a basset hound with two fingers isn't enough
if it didn't have stupid fundamental design aspects how would it still be a Harley?
The H-D product designers should come clean and admit they're relying on the aftermarket to give the bike suspension travel and ground clearance.
it's a strategy that's worked well since 1957