Nice touch sticking the balance wires on the backwards insulation tape. Not that it’s needed here, but instead of spot welding nickel tabs to each cell, I’d use a strip to connect 2 cells at a time (not parallel of course, but the little series + to - connection, just for a little extra current carrying capacity).
That's a powerful battery Bru. You should be able to make over 30 KW with that setup. looking forward to seeing the vector run. Cheers from rainy Vancouver Island. 🤙
That is such a fantastic demonstration of a battery build ! Ideally, that's what I want for my bike ! Thanks for giving us such fantastic information, and inspiration to the UK EV nation 👊
Agreed, hard escape so called protestant work ethic. Seems like the government as a byproduct of agricultural/pastoral revolution will always be in need for more consumers, wage-slaves and cannon fodder regardless of ideologies such as antinatalism based on consent and efilism.
Great video. To spotweld your copper, do you use pure nickel sandwish or nickel plated steel for higher resistance ? You use a kweld spotwelder right ? thanks
How many joules is the kweld? copper and nickel how many mm is it? I have a kweld and I can't solder as often as in the video, I have to wait for the copper tips to cool
I have a really good mate who's staying in digs in Manchester at the moment, i would really like to get the address of your workshop, because he has a van, cos i really am saving towards bringing my e-bike with the parts to get it up and running, my mate also wants to know where the best Caribbean restaurants are in Manchester
Yea makes sense copper is 4a per cubic mm so probably wouldn't take too much to get it there. I'm building a very similar bike rn and trying to find ways to get around the spot welding of copper. I've decided I'm gonna solder nickle strips onto the copper before hand with holes drilled where each cell terminal will be to spot weld through just the nickle. That way the current only has to move through the nickle a very short distance. Soldering before hand means no excess heat on the cells. I was thinking samsung 40T 21700 for the battery. The dimensions for the vortex frame seem like you can fit a whole lot of battery in there but I'm thinking it might be too heavy if I go all in. Would like to hear the full story behind the apt controller if you guys feel like sharing.
@@IAmDJMattI, i think you mean 4a per square mm, not cubic mm. Lol. But the “sheet is rated to 500/600a” is totally useless nonsense rating. The important question that was asked 10 times but I didn’t see the answer to was “how thick is the copper sheet/foil?” We can see in his hexagon configuration, he’s sending current diagonally in series. But for simplicity sake, lets say each cell has a 21mm wide copper path to the next cell in series. Each parallel cell having its own 21mm wide copper bus. If this is 0.1mm thick copper, thats 2.1mm^2 copper, and if we apply your 4a per mm^2 thats 8.4a. So that 500/600a sheet value is nonsense. In my battery I used 0.2mm thick copper sheet and its for 32650 cells. Mine is not simple hexagon arrangement so I didn’t get 32mm wide path for each cell, but probably 25mm per cell in the tightest spot. 25mm * 0.2mm = 5mm^2, so basically 20a using your 4a per mm^2 rule of thumb, which seems accurate. My battery cells are LiFePO4 32650, rated at 15a max discharge, but my 20s6p battery is only used with a 30a controller, so a maximum of 5a/cell. But my battery uses threaded terminals so it’s super easy, even if the cells were 100a each i could just bolt thicker copper. Lol. These 2170 high amp builds are a little tougher. I’ve seen some people making bus sheets similar to what you are describing. Basically you would need 0.6mm thick copper sheet 21mm wide per cell, to give 12.6mm^2 to get 50.4a per cell. Of course in actual use this battery can only run for 5 minutes before its dead. Lol Most of these guys are designing for only short bursts of power, which allows the copper time to cool down. But back to your method for making correct bus bars. Now the copper is too thick to warp between cells, your nickel inserts would ideally create a big enough standoff to allow the copper to expand and contract slightly without putting undo strain on the nickel inserts. If you actually made this battery and a video i’ll check it out.
Hey I got to give it to you with all the things going on over the UK and people in the UK getting benefits you should have no problem getting anything you want in this world bro you do amazing work and you're very talented I see you going places in this world something like Tony Montana LOL but in the electric world if you know what I mean bro
How do you guys feel about no spacers on a build. I’m about to build a 20s12p p42a for my sting. But space is tight and the pack with spacers will be very tall. I’m thinking glue and kapton.
I wouldn´t build a battery without spacers as they add rigidity and support for the cells. The weakpoint of nickel welds are torsional forces and with spacers interconnecting the cells, you decrease them. Maybe switch between cell form factors to get enough space
@@christianwagner6244 I was planning on glueing , and then kapton tight around each group , then again as a pack together , I can make it have the structural integrity. I fully understand what your saying , but in this scenario I’m more concerned if there would be any excessive heat with the cells made fast to each other.
@@KiloVoltBikes I do wanna say, I love your enthusiasm and you have done ALOT for the hobby for people to get into it with your work... and Appreciate EVERY moment of it, Son. Takes 14p of p42A Molicell to make 1 Chewy Voolt cell IR out. Ah for Ah, If you have 50Ah of molip42A... and I have 2p, 50Ah of LGZ P2.7B... I have HALF the IR that you do. 15C contin on a 25Ah cell ( 375Aeach) so that is upwards of 750A contin.... Well over 2000A out SCC... Group IR of 0.0005 Ohm... That is 1/3 the IR of a EIG 20Ah cell @ 3mOh. 3x more powerful. 10x more powerful than a Molicell p42A single cell. Molicell is 18mOh +. Lol. More discharge, more heat, more BTU you must get rid of, more amps, more detriment. Unless you dont make heat.. (with ultra low IR). Like a IR of a 28p Molicell p42A.... Group. A single P42A Molicell cell is good for a 37.42A ( 8.91C PEAK! Lol...) PEAK.... The Chevy cell is 10 more powerful and that is CONTIN not PEAK. Is a Chewy Voolt cell group. Powers a 222hp car every day.. Thousands of them on the highway. 3000lb car. 2p, 50Ah, lipo. Flip you RIGHT the fuck over @ 50mph.. let alone off takeoff.... If you got the motor to prove it. Yes, a little bulky ( you know pouch cells well, dont you?), but I manage. I hold 1.8kWh on my e-bicycle and the thing takes me as far as the eye can see on the horizon every day, son. At least you dont lose 10% of the wH/Kg number to wasted space of cyl. cells. Maxxed out every controller I ever owned so now I have to build me a custom. The pack YOU build is better suited to carry all that energy density and still be " strong enuf" and " tough enuf". For sure. There might be wasted space with power dense priorities..... And I do know this and this can be seen. The LGZ P2.5B cell is a 6"x0.25"x9" volume with a gram weight of about 402? grams. I'll find my scale and get you the real number in an instant if you like. Capable of 375A before compliance ismet. One love.
@@dogdipstick can only imagine it’s my boy JP in the house. No single other person I know with that much intel on those Chevy volt packs. All I can throw into the the mix at this point is specific capacity ( ah to kg) and specific power (max amp discharge to kg) I bet my bottom dollar my 42ah comes in at around 1/3 the weight of those Chevy volt power cubes . Then I’d hope power to weight ratio will win the rest . I fully hear you the Chevy volt packs are immense . But when it comes to small compact power - I think it’s hard to beat a molicel 21700 - peace bro 🤘
@@KiloVoltBikes Yup That it is. Lol. So yeah I weighed, and they are 453g each... So 453 (g) x 20 ( cells) = 9.06kG ( 21lb) for that 1.8kWh and about 1/5 cubic foot of space. 6 x 10 x 6... approx.. and at those dimensions... 360in^3 and that is 0.2 cubic feet...(1,728 cubic inches per cufoot) for the 1.8kWh nominal.. 9kG/1.8kWh, my pack is approx 200wH/kG. Empirically. Based on the rated wH capacity @ nominal voltage... actual mass of the cell...and the volume they take.
Nice touch sticking the balance wires on the backwards insulation tape.
Not that it’s needed here, but instead of spot welding nickel tabs to each cell, I’d use a strip to connect 2 cells at a time (not parallel of course, but the little series + to - connection, just for a little extra current carrying capacity).
That's a powerful battery Bru. You should be able to make over 30 KW with that setup. looking forward to seeing the vector run. Cheers from rainy Vancouver Island. 🤙
That is such a fantastic demonstration of a battery build ! Ideally, that's what I want for my bike ! Thanks for giving us such fantastic information, and inspiration to the UK EV nation 👊
I'm not afraid of work, I can watch it all day.
Agreed, hard escape so called protestant work ethic. Seems like the government as a byproduct of agricultural/pastoral revolution will always be in need for more consumers, wage-slaves and cannon fodder regardless of ideologies such as antinatalism based on consent and efilism.
Thanks , love the technical stuff. It ups all our game!
Thanks for sharing! Best way to create trust to a company :)
Sparktacular Skills ☝️🤟👽🚴♂️⚡
Great video. To spotweld your copper, do you use pure nickel sandwish or nickel plated steel for higher resistance ? You use a kweld spotwelder right ? thanks
Thank you for the tutorial. I'm building a pack of a similar size. Are there any safety risks associated with working with voltages above 50V?
What thickness copper and nickel did you use? And what settings did you run on your KWeld?
Kweld can only handle 0.1 copper. You have to experiment with your cells and see what joule setting on the kweld works best for your particular cells.
I'd also really like any info on the copper thickness, nickel sandwich pad thickness and welder settings. Love the content!
@@slappy8714 0.1 copper and 0.1-0.15 nickel or steel. I use 50-60 joules. I do test welds on the cell I'm using
@@ryanmerrill8879 what u using to powered your kweld?
@@malachiorgad9689 two 3S 5000mah LiPo batteries in parallel. It's running around 1780A when tested
looks awesome! where did you buy those nickel strip tabs from with the slit in them? and are they nickel or nickel plated steel?
sick! what thickness copper are you using?
Yup uk = rain 🎉 i think it rained every day i was there. I was there for 2 years😂🎉
What are the protective sheets you're using made of? Do they have an adhesive on one side as well?
Looks great, i wanna make one soon with qs 138
what is the thickness of the copper and nickel and what was the settings you have on the KWeld?
Hi, can you tell me Kweld settings u use ? Also did you use nickel strips over copper plates ?
Wah ! Ah you dat kilowatt? Mad respect Breda 👊
Hello, what is the gray color material?
How many joules is the kweld?
copper and nickel how many mm is it?
I have a kweld and I can't solder as often as in the video, I have to wait for the copper tips to cool
Whats type of bms are you using?
I'm curious..
How much Battery could be built in 96volt fashion within this Battery box dimensions?
380mm x 230mm x 200mm?
Do u sell the boxes for the far drive controller
good job how thick is the copper sheet. thanks.
Bro you could power my mini home for a year 🎉😂
So for 96v, is it 26 cells in each series? Also, what BMS did you use? Thanks.
96V nominal, peak(fully charged) would be 109V!
26 cells in series , we used a TOPBms initially but swapped over to an ANTbms due to hardware failures with the top BMS
what nickel are you using? * or did you tape it yourself?
I'm a rookie and learning about ev. how many AH is this battery?
Looks like a 10P 26S so 42Ah.
Where did you get the nickel square with the slits in them?
I haven't seen that before, are you putting little squares of nickel on the copper sheet to spot weld it. Looks like a great way to join cells.
It is an old sheet aluminum sheet metal spot welding trick. Old bodymen know about it cause they had to spot weld aluminum.
Fire 🔥 battery
Power house 🔋🏆
What size copper u use
I have a really good mate who's staying in digs in Manchester at the moment, i would really like to get the address of your workshop, because he has a van, cos i really am saving towards bringing my e-bike with the parts to get it up and running, my mate also wants to know where the best Caribbean restaurants are in Manchester
where can i buy those infusion bus bars?
Bonjour bientôt l'essai au draggy? 💪🏼
I saw this on my subcribtions
how thick are those copper sheets ??
contact us if you would like a battery built
Fool answer the question
How many amps will you be drawing? Will the thin copper foil be enough to carry the amperage?
Sheet material used is rated for 500/600A
Yea makes sense copper is 4a per cubic mm so probably wouldn't take too much to get it there. I'm building a very similar bike rn and trying to find ways to get around the spot welding of copper. I've decided I'm gonna solder nickle strips onto the copper before hand with holes drilled where each cell terminal will be to spot weld through just the nickle. That way the current only has to move through the nickle a very short distance. Soldering before hand means no excess heat on the cells. I was thinking samsung 40T 21700 for the battery. The dimensions for the vortex frame seem like you can fit a whole lot of battery in there but I'm thinking it might be too heavy if I go all in. Would like to hear the full story behind the apt controller if you guys feel like sharing.
@@KiloVoltBikes could you tell us how many cells total, amp hours, amps dc, bms amps max/cont etc please
@@scottnewton6677 Molicel P42A cells, 26S10P configuration - 42Ah@96V
@@IAmDJMattI, i think you mean 4a per square mm, not cubic mm. Lol. But the “sheet is rated to 500/600a” is totally useless nonsense rating.
The important question that was asked 10 times but I didn’t see the answer to was “how thick is the copper sheet/foil?”
We can see in his hexagon configuration, he’s sending current diagonally in series. But for simplicity sake, lets say each cell has a 21mm wide copper path to the next cell in series. Each parallel cell having its own 21mm wide copper bus.
If this is 0.1mm thick copper, thats 2.1mm^2 copper, and if we apply your 4a per mm^2 thats 8.4a. So that 500/600a sheet value is nonsense.
In my battery I used 0.2mm thick copper sheet and its for 32650 cells. Mine is not simple hexagon arrangement so I didn’t get 32mm wide path for each cell, but probably 25mm per cell in the tightest spot. 25mm * 0.2mm = 5mm^2, so basically 20a using your 4a per mm^2 rule of thumb, which seems accurate.
My battery cells are LiFePO4 32650, rated at 15a max discharge, but my 20s6p battery is only used with a 30a controller, so a maximum of 5a/cell.
But my battery uses threaded terminals so it’s super easy, even if the cells were 100a each i could just bolt thicker copper. Lol. These 2170 high amp builds are a little tougher.
I’ve seen some people making bus sheets similar to what you are describing. Basically you would need 0.6mm thick copper sheet 21mm wide per cell, to give 12.6mm^2 to get 50.4a per cell.
Of course in actual use this battery can only run for 5 minutes before its dead. Lol
Most of these guys are designing for only short bursts of power, which allows the copper time to cool down.
But back to your method for making correct bus bars. Now the copper is too thick to warp between cells, your nickel inserts would ideally create a big enough standoff to allow the copper to expand and contract slightly without putting undo strain on the nickel inserts.
If you actually made this battery and a video i’ll check it out.
What kind of welder do you use? Thanks
kWeld
Hey I got to give it to you with all the things going on over the UK and people in the UK getting benefits you should have no problem getting anything you want in this world bro you do amazing work and you're very talented I see you going places in this world something like Tony Montana LOL but in the electric world if you know what I mean bro
That was Scarface the movie I was talkin about LOL
Thank you bro , you know how we do - hard work pays off
@@KiloVoltBikes That's right 💯
How do you guys feel about no spacers on a build. I’m about to build a 20s12p p42a for my sting. But space is tight and the pack with spacers will be very tall. I’m thinking glue and kapton.
I wouldn´t build a battery without spacers as they add rigidity and support for the cells. The weakpoint of nickel welds are torsional forces and with spacers interconnecting the cells, you decrease them. Maybe switch between cell form factors to get enough space
@@christianwagner6244 I was planning on glueing , and then kapton tight around each group , then again as a pack together , I can make it have the structural integrity. I fully understand what your saying , but in this scenario I’m more concerned if there would be any excessive heat with the cells made fast to each other.
@@ronan9784 If you like being in the books of living, don't forget spacers
@@happygiraffe9787 yeah , I decided to make it work with the spacers , not a chance I really wanted to take. Appreciate the feedback;)
can you program the top bms(amp limit)?
also where did you get the spacers at??
Whats this bms ?
th-cam.com/video/SF0WhRnoIv0/w-d-xo.html
My Chevy Volt cell pack would destroy that thing power wise... I wish I could fit, and afford, 26s.
Lol. Hi Toose.
😂😂😂😂 your Chevy volt pack probably weighs half a ton .
What’s the spec I bet it still wouldn’t be able to mess with this pack 😂
@@KiloVoltBikes I do wanna say, I love your enthusiasm and you have done ALOT for the hobby for people to get into it with your work... and Appreciate EVERY moment of it, Son.
Takes 14p of p42A Molicell to make 1 Chewy Voolt cell IR out. Ah for Ah, If you have 50Ah of molip42A... and I have 2p, 50Ah of LGZ P2.7B... I have HALF the IR that you do. 15C contin on a 25Ah cell ( 375Aeach) so that is upwards of 750A contin....
Well over 2000A out SCC... Group IR of 0.0005 Ohm... That is 1/3 the IR of a EIG 20Ah cell @ 3mOh. 3x more powerful. 10x more powerful than a Molicell p42A single cell. Molicell is 18mOh +. Lol. More discharge, more heat, more BTU you must get rid of, more amps, more detriment. Unless you dont make heat.. (with ultra low IR).
Like a IR of a 28p Molicell p42A.... Group. A single P42A Molicell cell is good for a 37.42A ( 8.91C PEAK! Lol...) PEAK.... The Chevy cell is 10 more powerful and that is CONTIN not PEAK.
Is a Chewy Voolt cell group. Powers a 222hp car every day.. Thousands of them on the highway. 3000lb car. 2p, 50Ah, lipo.
Flip you RIGHT the fuck over @ 50mph.. let alone off takeoff.... If you got the motor to prove it. Yes, a little bulky ( you know pouch cells well, dont you?), but I manage. I hold 1.8kWh on my e-bicycle and the thing takes me as far as the eye can see on the horizon every day, son. At least you dont lose 10% of the wH/Kg number to wasted space of cyl. cells. Maxxed out every controller I ever owned so now I have to build me a custom.
The pack YOU build is better suited to carry all that energy density and still be " strong enuf" and " tough enuf". For sure. There might be wasted space with power dense priorities..... And I do know this and this can be seen.
The LGZ P2.5B cell is a 6"x0.25"x9" volume with a gram weight of about 402? grams. I'll find my scale and get you the real number in an instant if you like. Capable of 375A before compliance ismet.
One love.
@@dogdipstick can only imagine it’s my boy JP in the house. No single other person I know with that much intel on those Chevy volt packs.
All I can throw into the the mix at this point is specific capacity ( ah to kg) and specific power (max amp discharge to kg)
I bet my bottom dollar my 42ah comes in at around 1/3 the weight of those Chevy volt power cubes . Then I’d hope power to weight ratio will win the rest .
I fully hear you the Chevy volt packs are immense . But when it comes to small compact power - I think it’s hard to beat a molicel 21700 - peace bro 🤘
@@KiloVoltBikes Yup That it is. Lol. So yeah I weighed, and they are 453g each... So 453 (g) x 20 ( cells) = 9.06kG ( 21lb) for that 1.8kWh and about 1/5 cubic foot of space. 6 x 10 x 6... approx.. and at those dimensions... 360in^3 and that is 0.2 cubic feet...(1,728 cubic inches per cufoot) for the 1.8kWh nominal..
9kG/1.8kWh, my pack is approx 200wH/kG. Empirically. Based on the rated wH capacity @ nominal voltage... actual mass of the cell...and the volume they take.
@@dogdipstick I use Chevy volt modules, they are fairly heavy. Think my 72V module is 60lbs. That is the older gen 1.