YES THE SERIES IS BACK! As for the Atlantic Branch to New Jersey, We should connect it to the Hoboken Terminal. The Financial District station will be positioned and pointed to the north, then the Tunnel will run under Greenwich St then turn west at either Canal or Houston St, under the Hudson ending up at Hoboken Terminal to takeover the Hoboken Division. I’m also surprised that the 7 train extension to Secaucus Junction wasn’t included nor a NJ Transit West Trenton Branch.
Instead of purchasing M9s for through running with NJT, I would strongly encourage purchasing M8s for this service, as they run on both overhead wires and 3rd rail with shoes that run both overhand and underhand. I also feel using the costs of the Ronkonkoma double track project would be a better source for double track costs, as the 3rd track main line project is much more expensive than the Ronkonkoma branch as 3rd track main line also includes station rebuilds and grade separation, in addition to adding a 3rd track.
@@az196823 The M9s design prohibits pantographs because their specifications were built for the LIRR. The M8 specifications have both third rail and catenary shoes attached making the M8 fleet more flexible than their M7 & M9 counterparts.
Overall great ideas we could connect the Q to Hackensack to serve the Fort Lee Area. This would allow for better communication to Manhattan. With the Military Budget we can also use that to extend the 7 Train to Secaucus Junction for connections to the NJ Transit trains and buses there. We would also have to expand the orders of the R262s and R268s to accommodate those extensions. The Military Budget should include a Staten Island Extension from 95th St serving Staten Island busiest corridors in the North Shore. For Atlantic Terminal we can extend that Branch to NJ, but also we can divert NJ Transit Trains there to connect to the Northeast Corridor, as well as The North Jersey Coastline. We also need to expand the new train orders for NJT, and purchase more M9As for the LIRR and metro north and have in service speeds increased to 100mph on the commuter rail lines. Doing these changes would greatly benefit NJ and NY for the coming years and into the 22nd Century. For the Port Authority they can use that budget to expand the PATH Network to Atlantic Ave in Brooklyn connecting Downtown Brooklyn at Jay St before terminating at Atlantic Ave. Now NJ Transit Services would end at Jamaica so that riders can connect to a train to NJ from Queens without going through Manhattan. We also need to have a look into the Staten Island Bus Network as there needs to be changes there First we need to have buses connect to NJ those being the S48/98, S55/95, and S59/89 The S48 would run to Union Kean University from the St George Ferry Terminal The S55 would be extended Northward to the College of Staten Island, as well as southward to Perth Amboy Station for Staten Islanders to get a one seat ride to NJ. The S95 would be a limited Variant of the S55, having a nonstop segment to The Staten Island Mall where it would then make Limited Stops to Perth Amboy Station. Lastly although we know that the S89 goes to Bayonne it only operates on Rush Hours, so why not have the S59 run to Bayonne but we would cut it back to Hylan and Richmond for enhanced NJ Service. Now for further improvements we should convert the SIR ROW for Metro North as that would run under a tunnel to Staten Island from Lower Manhattan. The way fare collection would work would be is if anywhere is in the city then they would pay the base subway fare to get there.
One other thing I was thinking of and might be a little outside of what you know, but Boston’s regional rail network is quite extensive but could absolutely use some work beyond just the north south connector. There are a ton of abandoned lines and bottlenecks that need some work. The old colony mainline is a big one as it it’s partly sigle tracked in Dorchester causing problems for about 3 different lines and soon to be 4. South Coast Rail phase two needs to happen too especially because of the aforementioned bottleneck (south coast rail phase 1 turns one of those three lines into two that both serve major cities in southeastern Mass over 80,000 people). Further there is no MBTA service to Springfield which is the third largest city in the state and could open up a lot of opportunities for connecting trips as there are trains to Hartford and Beyond. Furthermore there really should be trains from Worcester to Providence and potentially trains to Newport RI. This could be a massive circumferential line with two branches. Starting in Worcester going to Providence with one branching to Newport and the other going to New Bedford and Fall River which are now going to be connected to Boston via south coast rail. All the infrastructure minus the Providence to Newport part is already there too. Plus there are even more abandoned lines that could easily be brought back with some TLC as the ROWs are still there.
Yessss! Also a circumferential line from New Bedford to Newburyport via Framingham, Lowell, Lawrence and Haverhill would be very useful. The line would use existing tracks and abandoned rights of way to Lowell and possibly to Lawrence and then new alignment roughly along Route 495 to Newburyport and Salisbury where the burnt and abandoned bridge over the Merrimack would be rebuilt, affording an extension of the Newburyport Line to Portsmouth NH.
Out of curiosity, why did you choose to convert NJTransit's entire network to LIRR style 3rd rail rather than upgrading and expanding the current network of overhead wires? Wouldn't that be significantly cheaper than completely replacing NJT's fleet with M9's, and wouldn't overhead wires allow for higher capacity, higher speed trains?
@@jointransitassociation Through running is reliability issue. The distances for the LIRR & NJT are long, you’d have to end services early and that will cut into capacity and cause issues with the headways.
I agree with the NJ Transit expansions but the elimination of EVERY grade crossing is a bit over the top. Not every line can be elevated and not every road can have an over or underpass. While some more dangerous crossings with higher traffic volumes should be removed, it's not practical to make changes to crossings with light traffic from road or rail (I'm also a big railroad crossing nerd so I'm a bit biased)
I like the idea of an extension to fort lee, and the Second avenue crosstown extension is a brilliant idea. I am worried about the grades that would be on the line, having to dive rather deep to get under the Hudson river, and then having to climb up close to ground level to avoid a station over 100 meters deep under fort lee. A bridge would probably be the only river crossing that could avoid the elevation increase on the west side of the Hudson, which would most likely mean using the George Washington Bridge. It was designed for two pairs of track on the lower level, and there are provisions for an extension of the 8th av line at 168 st, but that isn't anywhere near where the Q would end up. A redesign of the 168 st station and lower level of the GWB, along with all of the approach ramps, would allow for extending the 8th av express along roughly this route instead. The second avenue train could then hypothetically be extended along concourse to boost service there I also feel like using cars like the M8's on the New Haven line as the rolling stock on all commuter rail lines would be beneficial, as it would allow for all new electrification projects to use overhead power instead of 3rd rail, allowing for more safety, higher speeds, and less substations. You could even go as far as replacing some lines with geometry that allows for high speeds, such as the LIRR Main line, Babylon branch, port Washington branch, and MNR Hudson line (with the last one also allowing Amtrak to operate electric trains there as well). This inter-system train set could also have platform extenders for level boarding at the wider NJT platforms. I'm interested in what termini and specific routes you think these regional rail trains would have. Imo trains from Montauk going all the way to, say, Port Jervis, is absolutely ridiculous simply due to route length. Hicksville to Summit, or something like that, would make a bit more sense in terms of route length and demand. On the Atlantic avenue extension, would there be a place to put the downtown Manhattan station in a place that isn't in the pits of hell (eg. sas & GCM) and without hitting any subway lines? I feel like while extending it into NJ closer to Journal Sq makes more geometric, a connection to Hoboken would be preferable. Or maybe the inside track provisions at exchange place could be used for a cross platform transfer between local and regional service, assuming full fare integration. Also, having these 2 new NJT lines not pass through Secaucus Junction seems a bit nearsighted, especially because it is serving Downtown, not Midtown, which is a smaller job center for suburban commuters. An extra 2 tracks could be added to Secaucus to facilitate this, or connections further north in Jersey to the 3 current lines could be made. Just some thoughts. Wonderful video, and I'm waiting with bated breath for the next one of these. Cheers!
Both branches to Dover should be electrified for all day 30min service + 2-3 Amtrak trains to Scranton and 3 NJT express round trips to Hackettstown/Easton and Andover (Amtrak and 1-2 NJT express would reach Easton/Allentown via RVL)
I wonder if they could also manage to speed up the trains on the Morristown branch. It takes twice as long to get to Dover from Manhattan vs. taking a bus.
Ok so, I like this idea Joint Transit but, if MTA/LIRR wants Oyster Bay Branch to be electrified, they'll have to remove all of its diesel trains existing and install the Overhead Wires so that DE30AC & DM30AC, this also includes the upcoming the chargers train, so that they can run on Oyster Bay Branch as electric (and also as third rail track equipment), as for the Gateway Program, I would surely like the 2 new tracks for the tunnel as Gateway only have accessible for the Amtrak trains & Semi-Fast NJT trains in and out of Penn Station (that is only bypassing Secaucus Junction station) so that the trains can have an faster way to get the passengers to their destination, but other than that, this idea seem so nice!
I’d say a full electrification up to Riverhead. The amount for acquisition is little. As for Sunnyside station. It’s impossible to build anything on an existing rail yard. It would cut capacity into Penn Station.
"It's impossible to build anything on an existing rail yard.".... NYC has done it in several locations; two of them would be the Pitkin Yard near the Queens border, and the other would be a now-defunct yard in the Bronx.
That should be in the initial budget. If not, then this amendment made it possible, as the work needed to through run trains is funded in this amendment like high floor platforms and electrification.
love the NJT proposals. my main suggestion would be to set aside more money for existing deferred maintainance, particularly on the NEC line. the wires have been the main issue of the failures here so i think that serious money should go to fixing or replacing the wires here also you are funding the HBLR extension to englewood which is great, but it should go to teneck like it was originally designed to imo. or hell, make it a full northern branch reactivation and have it go all the way to nyack or meet with the West Shore line at the palisades mall
@@daviiiid.r My suggestion for the NEC is renovating Jersey Avenue and an infill station in North Brunswick for a better transfer to AMTRAK. Metropark & New Brunswick see very low ridership on AMTRAK, especially on the Northeast Regional & Keystone services. Hopefully HSR is extended into Pennsylvania up to Pittsburgh or Chicago.
@@waterlooandcitylinemy bad, for some reason i confuse those two towns. but i can’t tell if actual residents didn’t want it or if it’s just loud nimbys because the complaints i saw when i researched the issue seemed real fake (and NJT bus ridership in the town is massive)
@@RocketTrain-0 there’s a lot of good stuff to be done on the NEC, but i just want the existing trains to be able to run consistently before we go anywhere fancy, and i think a refresh or a replacement of the current infrastructure may be necessary to achieve that
I wouldn't budget a new Sunnyside station based on Secaucus Jct. That facility is a hugely overblown and inefficient design. Why must one have to travel up one set of escalators from the main line platforms to a gigantic concourse to then have to go down another, even longer escalator to get to the Bergen County platforms. It didn't occur to the designers to simply put a staircase between the two platforms???
YES THE SERIES IS BACK! As for the Atlantic Branch to New Jersey, We should connect it to the Hoboken Terminal. The Financial District station will be positioned and pointed to the north, then the Tunnel will run under Greenwich St then turn west at either Canal or Houston St, under the Hudson ending up at Hoboken Terminal to takeover the Hoboken Division. I’m also surprised that the 7 train extension to Secaucus Junction wasn’t included nor a NJ Transit West Trenton Branch.
Man I love the transit-industrial complex!
Instead of purchasing M9s for through running with NJT, I would strongly encourage purchasing M8s for this service, as they run on both overhead wires and 3rd rail with shoes that run both overhand and underhand. I also feel using the costs of the Ronkonkoma double track project would be a better source for double track costs, as the 3rd track main line project is much more expensive than the Ronkonkoma branch as 3rd track main line also includes station rebuilds and grade separation, in addition to adding a 3rd track.
@@Pensyfan19 I agree here. The M8s like the Arrows were built to run on multiple electrification systems, therefore classifying them as HSR railcars.
You can still get M9s, but with it being multi voltage. With paintegraphs built into the design on an updated platform.
@@az196823 The M9s design prohibits pantographs because their specifications were built for the LIRR. The M8 specifications have both third rail and catenary shoes attached making the M8 fleet more flexible than their M7 & M9 counterparts.
@@RocketTrain-0 So an updated M8 ?
@ Yep
I love the idea of extending the subway all the way to Hackensack.
YESSSS thank god this series is back I’ve genuinely been thinking about this every single day!!
Return of the king, any kind of update on this series is goated
Overall great ideas we could connect the Q to Hackensack to serve the Fort Lee Area. This would allow for better communication to Manhattan. With the Military Budget we can also use that to extend the 7 Train to Secaucus Junction for connections to the NJ Transit trains and buses there. We would also have to expand the orders of the R262s and R268s to accommodate those extensions.
The Military Budget should include a Staten Island Extension from 95th St serving Staten Island busiest corridors in the North Shore.
For Atlantic Terminal we can extend that Branch to NJ, but also we can divert NJ Transit Trains there to connect to the Northeast Corridor, as well as The North Jersey Coastline. We also need to expand the new train orders for NJT, and purchase more M9As for the LIRR and metro north and have in service speeds increased to 100mph on the commuter rail lines.
Doing these changes would greatly benefit NJ and NY for the coming years and into the 22nd Century.
For the Port Authority they can use that budget to expand the PATH Network to Atlantic Ave in Brooklyn connecting Downtown Brooklyn at Jay St before terminating at Atlantic Ave.
Now NJ Transit Services would end at Jamaica so that riders can connect to a train to NJ from Queens without going through Manhattan.
We also need to have a look into the Staten Island Bus Network as there needs to be changes there
First we need to have buses connect to NJ those being the S48/98, S55/95, and S59/89
The S48 would run to Union Kean University from the St George Ferry Terminal
The S55 would be extended Northward to the College of Staten Island, as well as southward to Perth Amboy Station for Staten Islanders to get a one seat ride to NJ. The S95 would be a limited Variant of the S55, having a nonstop segment to The Staten Island Mall where it would then make Limited Stops to Perth Amboy Station.
Lastly although we know that the S89 goes to Bayonne it only operates on Rush Hours, so why not have the S59 run to Bayonne but we would cut it back to Hylan and Richmond for enhanced NJ Service.
Now for further improvements we should convert the SIR ROW for Metro North as that would run under a tunnel to Staten Island from Lower Manhattan. The way fare collection would work would be is if anywhere is in the city then they would pay the base subway fare to get there.
I've shared the original video so many times.
Thank you for this update!!
these videos are awesome!! i’m really looking forward to the midwest and the south
One other thing I was thinking of and might be a little outside of what you know, but Boston’s regional rail network is quite extensive but could absolutely use some work beyond just the north south connector. There are a ton of abandoned lines and bottlenecks that need some work. The old colony mainline is a big one as it it’s partly sigle tracked in Dorchester causing problems for about 3 different lines and soon to be 4. South Coast Rail phase two needs to happen too especially because of the aforementioned bottleneck (south coast rail phase 1 turns one of those three lines into two that both serve major cities in southeastern Mass over 80,000 people). Further there is no MBTA service to Springfield which is the third largest city in the state and could open up a lot of opportunities for connecting trips as there are trains to Hartford and Beyond. Furthermore there really should be trains from Worcester to Providence and potentially trains to Newport RI. This could be a massive circumferential line with two branches. Starting in Worcester going to Providence with one branching to Newport and the other going to New Bedford and Fall River which are now going to be connected to Boston via south coast rail. All the infrastructure minus the Providence to Newport part is already there too. Plus there are even more abandoned lines that could easily be brought back with some TLC as the ROWs are still there.
Yessss! Also a circumferential line from New Bedford to Newburyport via Framingham, Lowell, Lawrence and Haverhill would be very useful. The line would use existing tracks and abandoned rights of way to Lowell and possibly to Lawrence and then new alignment roughly along Route 495 to Newburyport and Salisbury where the burnt and abandoned bridge over the Merrimack would be rebuilt, affording an extension of the Newburyport Line to Portsmouth NH.
Out of curiosity, why did you choose to convert NJTransit's entire network to LIRR style 3rd rail rather than upgrading and expanding the current network of overhead wires? Wouldn't that be significantly cheaper than completely replacing NJT's fleet with M9's, and wouldn't overhead wires allow for higher capacity, higher speed trains?
Easier to through run. And only the northern Hoboken Division I advocate third rail, as that would be connected to the Atlantic Branch.
@@jointransitassociation Through running is reliability issue. The distances for the LIRR & NJT are long, you’d have to end services early and that will cut into capacity and cause issues with the headways.
Make it so! The future of public transit is both electrified and automated so anything that advanced those two goals would be ideal!
This was a surprise to be sure but a welcome one
Can't wait for you to get to chicago
This series is gold tier content. Would you consider linking a website that has a map of all the projects mentioned in the video?
I agree with the NJ Transit expansions but the elimination of EVERY grade crossing is a bit over the top. Not every line can be elevated and not every road can have an over or underpass. While some more dangerous crossings with higher traffic volumes should be removed, it's not practical to make changes to crossings with light traffic from road or rail (I'm also a big railroad crossing nerd so I'm a bit biased)
I like the idea of an extension to fort lee, and the Second avenue crosstown extension is a brilliant idea. I am worried about the grades that would be on the line, having to dive rather deep to get under the Hudson river, and then having to climb up close to ground level to avoid a station over 100 meters deep under fort lee. A bridge would probably be the only river crossing that could avoid the elevation increase on the west side of the Hudson, which would most likely mean using the George Washington Bridge. It was designed for two pairs of track on the lower level, and there are provisions for an extension of the 8th av line at 168 st, but that isn't anywhere near where the Q would end up. A redesign of the 168 st station and lower level of the GWB, along with all of the approach ramps, would allow for extending the 8th av express along roughly this route instead. The second avenue train could then hypothetically be extended along concourse to boost service there
I also feel like using cars like the M8's on the New Haven line as the rolling stock on all commuter rail lines would be beneficial, as it would allow for all new electrification projects to use overhead power instead of 3rd rail, allowing for more safety, higher speeds, and less substations. You could even go as far as replacing some lines with geometry that allows for high speeds, such as the LIRR Main line, Babylon branch, port Washington branch, and MNR Hudson line (with the last one also allowing Amtrak to operate electric trains there as well). This inter-system train set could also have platform extenders for level boarding at the wider NJT platforms. I'm interested in what termini and specific routes you think these regional rail trains would have. Imo trains from Montauk going all the way to, say, Port Jervis, is absolutely ridiculous simply due to route length. Hicksville to Summit, or something like that, would make a bit more sense in terms of route length and demand.
On the Atlantic avenue extension, would there be a place to put the downtown Manhattan station in a place that isn't in the pits of hell (eg. sas & GCM) and without hitting any subway lines? I feel like while extending it into NJ closer to Journal Sq makes more geometric, a connection to Hoboken would be preferable. Or maybe the inside track provisions at exchange place could be used for a cross platform transfer between local and regional service, assuming full fare integration. Also, having these 2 new NJT lines not pass through Secaucus Junction seems a bit nearsighted, especially because it is serving Downtown, not Midtown, which is a smaller job center for suburban commuters. An extra 2 tracks could be added to Secaucus to facilitate this, or connections further north in Jersey to the 3 current lines could be made.
Just some thoughts. Wonderful video, and I'm waiting with bated breath for the next one of these.
Cheers!
Both branches to Dover should be electrified for all day 30min service + 2-3 Amtrak trains to Scranton and 3 NJT express round trips to Hackettstown/Easton and Andover (Amtrak and 1-2 NJT express would reach Easton/Allentown via RVL)
I wonder if they could also manage to speed up the trains on the Morristown branch. It takes twice as long to get to Dover from Manhattan vs. taking a bus.
It's also worth noting that this is the _annual_ military budget. Anyone who's mad about fixating on the northeast can just wait until next year.
I presented this morning at a model congress conference and the president said no
Ok so, I like this idea Joint Transit but, if MTA/LIRR wants Oyster Bay Branch to be electrified, they'll have to remove all of its diesel trains existing and install the Overhead Wires so that DE30AC & DM30AC, this also includes the upcoming the chargers train, so that they can run on Oyster Bay Branch as electric (and also as third rail track equipment), as for the Gateway Program, I would surely like the 2 new tracks for the tunnel as Gateway only have accessible for the Amtrak trains & Semi-Fast NJT trains in and out of Penn Station (that is only bypassing Secaucus Junction station) so that the trains can have an faster way to get the passengers to their destination, but other than that, this idea seem so nice!
I can't wait for you to do New England
Wow love this 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
the VISION, the BRAVERY to show a LIRR Brooklyn / NJT Main branch fusion. thank you
Funny how I watched NE episode, top of the morning.
I’d say a full electrification up to Riverhead. The amount for acquisition is little. As for Sunnyside station. It’s impossible to build anything on an existing rail yard. It would cut capacity into Penn Station.
"It's impossible to build anything on an existing rail yard."....
NYC has done it in several locations; two of them would be the Pitkin Yard near the Queens border, and the other would be a now-defunct yard in the Bronx.
Will the major $1B track upgrade include speed increases to 100 mph? You said that it would “eliminate slow zones”
WOOHOO
What about the ETA through running proposal? It looks very promising.
That should be in the initial budget. If not, then this amendment made it possible, as the work needed to through run trains is funded in this amendment like high floor platforms and electrification.
This is a very good presentation! Question: is the abandoned NJT branch towards Patterson being revived under this proposal?
tyhe railline that gose to the englwood hospital is already being converted into light rail as the northern extension of the hudson begen line.
LIRR heritage units, when
1:51 oh god… Harold is already busy enough, I’m not sure if having an infill station there would be such a good idea. ..
Now what could we do with the military budget and also Spanish construction costs
0:20 that’s me?
Cries in South Jersey 😢
What if CSX or NS board said no to MNRR or LIRR expansion on their lines?
Mention Cleveland please in the mid west video.
nothimg about how frequent the sevicesshould be or the new amtrack service to scanton.
love the NJT proposals. my main suggestion would be to set aside more money for existing deferred maintainance, particularly on the NEC line. the wires have been the main issue of the failures here so i think that serious money should go to fixing or replacing the wires here
also you are funding the HBLR extension to englewood which is great, but it should go to teneck like it was originally designed to imo. or hell, make it a full northern branch reactivation and have it go all the way to nyack or meet with the West Shore line at the palisades mall
Tenafly, not Teaneck. Tenafly residents didn't want the HBLR, which is why it was cut back to Englewood
@@daviiiid.r My suggestion for the NEC is renovating Jersey Avenue and an infill station in North Brunswick for a better transfer to AMTRAK. Metropark & New Brunswick see very low ridership on AMTRAK, especially on the Northeast Regional & Keystone services. Hopefully HSR is extended into Pennsylvania up to Pittsburgh or Chicago.
@@waterlooandcitylinemy bad, for some reason i confuse those two towns. but i can’t tell if actual residents didn’t want it or if it’s just loud nimbys because the complaints i saw when i researched the issue seemed real fake (and NJT bus ridership in the town is massive)
@@RocketTrain-0 there’s a lot of good stuff to be done on the NEC, but i just want the existing trains to be able to run consistently before we go anywhere fancy, and i think a refresh or a replacement of the current infrastructure may be necessary to achieve that
I wouldn't budget a new Sunnyside station based on Secaucus Jct. That facility is a hugely overblown and inefficient design. Why must one have to travel up one set of escalators from the main line platforms to a gigantic concourse to then have to go down another, even longer escalator to get to the Bergen County platforms. It didn't occur to the designers to simply put a staircase between the two platforms???
Now, let's figure out what US transit could do with an already overinflated STUPERHIGHWAY budget!!
Somehow find a way to spend $800 bn without making any actual improvements to service, as is classic of government spending and union labor.
4:42 he forgor💀
！
🤓
Without the military being funded, I'd like just one train line going across the border. Or directly into the water.