What happens when you go "gray rock"?
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Being alone or lonely, and having no one is better than having narcissists or toxic people for company.
After being through a relationship like that I have a better appreciation for loneliness
Absolutely it takes one great man to beat none.
Reminds me of that quote by Robin Williams.
Agreed.
I agree, it feels so good! Even though there's the risk of not wanting to expose ourselves to love anymore, especially in the first period after the toxic relationship. Anyway, I've never liked to be alone so much in a lifetime.
My mom was very good at this. I once asked her why she never replied when someone tried to bait her she said I’m not required to respond to a fool.
LOL!! Your mom is 100% correct, amen.
Good one!! I like what RuPaul says. "What other people think of me, is none of my business".
Grey Rock is also known as Stoicism
My mom is the same to, I used to be angry at her for not reacting now I completely understand her
@@ifunanyafavourndee-amaugo9362 me too! My mom is so strong, not engaging into "awkward talks" with my narcissistic father. I just lost it when he triggered me, but my mom was exactly as a rock! And now I also understand her!
I have met some narcissists who are so narcissistic, they don't even notice you aren't even listening to them.
😩😭
Hahahaha
hahaha YEP
Blind!
@Bill Haggard literally my ex girlfriend.
DO NOT APOLOGIZE TO THEM!
You owe them nothing and you must have boundaries. Stand your ground.
Woah, woah, woah...!
I think you nailed it. I hadn't really thought of it before, but asking ZERO questions (at all!) was perhaps one of the most beneficial responses or actions I ever had. Thank you! You've cemented this for me for future interactions. 🥰💞👍🙏
Apologizing to them always backfires. It will be used against you. Just gives them supply.
You don't owe them shit. Cut em all off and show em you need Noone and can be alone ,unlike the other narcissists
If anyone should apologise it’s them. Even if you were partly to blame there’s no point returning the retributive action as far as I can tell. I’m not saying hunt them down (they don’t even deserve that level of engagement, unless it’s that bad) but they definitely don’t deserve an apology from you. You’re the ultimate victim, not them. They don’t like it, they don’t like it. That’s their problem. They’re going to kick off, rage and gossip about you anyway. That’s all they know how to do (whereas the decent people around them are busy cooking, writing CVs and providing top-notch psych. advice to people what need it).
Narcissists don’t understand the concept of boundaries (or they do but just don’t care) so you’ve got to be really firm with those boundaries. You don’t want to be devalued even more.
I am a gray rock with a gorgeous sparkly crystal geode inside
love it
Mood
💖💖💖
Susan's killing it.
Oooo I love that visual!
I was gray rocking before even knowing what it was.
Same.
God me too. I'm there now. I feel like she's looking through my window talking about my life in particular.
CC same! I just watch this video and said to myself “Wow, I knew the right tools along, huh?” But a narc will make you feel like your crazy.
Me too. I learned to do it as a kid with toxic members of my family. I just called it "Fuck them - they are the problem"
Yes @Voni V. The worst part is feeling crazy. There are people at my job who have decided to ignore me, it’s the lower staff I started out with and sometimes I feel bad.
It's difficult at first but once you see they are acting like little children, it's quite amusing and cartoonish. Hard to believe grown adults act like this...Thank you Dr. Ramani for your wisdom and compassion!
Grown adults doing grown adult things-having children, holding down jobs- but with the mind of an adolescent.
It’s so pervasive in Western Society.
Does anyone else feel and sense the shift??
@@MsAdventure531 People are realizing that the world has more to offer than having kids, buying a house and then holding the same job for 30 years to pay of the mortgage. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. We as a society made the rules for what adults are supposed to do and we as a society can change them.
Also,
When you stay silent, it allows there words to echo back at them.
They don't like seeing themselves as the villain that they are. Their words echoing really hits home for them. Of course they will still find a way to blame you
@@MsBupek oh ya...I "make" him act out.
Narcissist don’t have common sense to realize anything
YES, I have used this so many times!
Like my grandfather says, 'Don't argue with an idiot.'
Soooo wise!
Amen... ??? 😏 😎 ok lets PRAY
Don't wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty and the pig likes it.
“Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
― Not Mark Twain, apparently.
"It's impossible to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man."
“Narcissistic Supply” = “Your Emotional Energy”.
It's real
Exactly, how awful is that? These people are evil on earth.
So true. It is all chemistry that we keep attracting. Change our chemistry by healing that which may be faulty in ourselves and we will be truly liberated from narcissistic behaviour. Thank you.
Agreed
When i discovered the Zen pocket reader and learned to ignore my emotions it opened my eyes that I had surrounded myself with these emotionally draining people.
"I am a rock; I am an island.
And a rock feels no pain, and an island never cries -- Paul Simon
i think that was meant ironically
"I'll build walls, a fortress deep and mighty
That none can penetrate.. "
"What, are you in therapy now" - it's almost like they recognize that any decent therapist would advise to cut contact with them...
It is very difficult for an empath to go "gray rock" for more than a few moments at a time, and it's exhausting. It would be better to avoid the narcissist altogether and get out of the relationship as soon as possible.
Not if your a quiet person by nature...there is strength in silence...too bad THEY don't know that...and being an introvert isn't always a bad thing.💜
Yes!!!
That is IF you can get out of the relationship. Especially if they are your superior.
My narcissist was an older sibling, and that's probably the most difficult relationship to get out of. I had 'Gray Rock' down cold before I learned how to talk. Unfortunately I could never interact with any other human being without bring siblings considerable powers of evil into laser focus on me. And getting away from evil malignant narcissist in my mid-thirties meant severing all connections with the rest of the family as well . It was the best thing I ever did.
@@marelinemareline9621 Going no contact with my narc sister resulted in no contact with my 92-year-old mother (my sister is taking care of her), my nieces, nephew, and his children. It's sad but my sanity is more important. We must protect ourselves.
'Don't let their insecurity get inside of you' Really wise words.
So true! They constantly project the insecurities they don't accept on themselves
HERE'S WHAT REALLY HAPPENS: they follow you, harass you, stalk you, and scream in your face until you decide to respond.
Is anyone else sick of therapy? Emma, Folkestone.
I tried to add a comment but I could only reply. Does anyone know why? Emma, Folkestone.
I used to envision a shell of white light around myself that whatever my mother would hurl at me would bounce off, turn into love and go back at her. I got really good at envisioning the shell and feel like I can withstand anything.
That is beautiful Sarah!
Wow I used to do this as child ❤ty for reminding me
"They resent other people *because* they need them." Wow.
@@competentsuitor3811 If your job has some kind of HR system, start documenting whatever you can. 'CYA', as it's said. Make sure they can't get any feasible dirt on you. At the same time, keep your resume up to date as an aside and to make sure you have a quick out if things get too bad.
Crowned One YAAAAAAS
I’m not condoning them for needing people but in the way they think they are entitled to people and that people will put up with their behavior it’s definitely not going to happen it’s ok to need people but it’s not ok to treat people like toys and think they will stay that’s the problem they only need supply for their narcissism
Wow they really are idiots smh
@@chamomiletea5424 well I cant say abuse is ok or to tolerate, but her statement about looking out for yourself, cause no one else will, it's so true. Especially in this day and age. No one's loyal like they used to be in the old days smh
So true and helpful. A great counselor I had told me: "Remember: he's in a pit. He wants to pull you into that pit. You're job is to not let him."
Brilliant 👏- thank you
Yes, outsmart the narcissist and if at all possible--disappear!...💯
Wow i love that!!
True!!!!
This is a really helpful way to look at it. Thank you!
I have just realised that I am married to a narcissist. 25yrs of me taking all of the blames and the insults, not to mention the self doubt of why am I not good enough for him. You have opened my eyes. Thank you.
You still have a lot of life to live. Run with it. Don't waste any more of your time.
Divorce him. You deserve better.
Let us know how this journey goes and Godspeed to your truth
I'm at 33 years. Shes been an alcoholic for 20 years and always played the party girl. Alot of sketchy things happened but she always said she was just partying. In the last couple years she was hitting on men in front of me. This drove our arguments to another level and she has slowly revealed things out of spite. A 33 year lie has blown up in my face. Your not alone. We are not alone.
Hope your life is much better
"Narcissists desperately need other people and, they resent other people because they need them". This helps me understand why their "attacks" are not personal! Thank you so much for this!!!
Their attacks, of course are not personal. It's them not you
@@joshuaanzalone2060 Agree. Well put!❤
The only way to deal with narcissists is not to have them in your life at all
But it is tough when the narcs are family members - I spent my childhood earning how to deal with this foolishness. Fortunately I had my dad - a working class but well-read man, who showed me how normal, kind, sensitive people operate .Without his example I would be in the mad house by now.
@@thedativecase9733 I completely broke off with narcissistic family members. It's very hard yes, but you have to choose what's more important: you or them.
Yes
@@thedativecase9733 yes, they are in the family
@Electrono9 good way to state that . I agree totally
In short: "Don't feed the troll"
@Troll Mctrollerson then eat some clover and dandelions, baby!
@Troll Mctrollerson real talk though, narcissists that claim the victim role (the only kind I have experience of) always are trying to get others to give them what they need *to* *give* *themselves*, always getting people to do their work for them, to give them their space and their rights, "can I please have your share of emotional energy, please, PLEASE??" --- they need to grow up.
Thats a good way to put it
@@DanielHoerle-ww9so thank you :)
Literally.
When I did this, the smear campaign was I have neglected the best mother on earth. The enablers are like why aren't you talking why are you avoiding your mother...
Stay strong 💐
Enablers , Siblings a bunch of kiss asses 😉
Happy to find your comment I’m about to grey rock my mother I’ve been her only financial support for years and I was only asking fir emotional warmth. Even tho it’s long distance because we live in two different continent . I recently got married and she simply sent a congrats message nothing warm . She is a communal narcissist who devoted her life into serving In church . I did a lot of self healing wrote her an open letter and everybody who had read that said it was beautiful and profound . I never had a response only a reaction of you are accusing me while the God I pray day and night has been the one who keep you alive 🙄. I’m going to be silent and the smear campaign will be I abandonner her . I’m ready for that enough is enough ! Réparenting myself and building a much more beautiful family
@@stephanieCl never ever let a narcissist into your life, they are bad news and trouble makers... they can spoil your happiness and life in minutes, thet can involve in your marriage too and cause harm... gray rocking going no contact deep technique... just consider that person is not in your world, keep yourself surrounded with supportive people and let them know how deceitful they can be...
So glad you mentioned it can be triggering when a narcissist ignores you. Growing up with my single mother, she used to do the silent treatment to punish or manipulate me. It was excruciating. Now when she stopped calling after I gray rocked, it was so painful. I started calling her, and she still doesn't call me (she used to call several times/day). I feel so lonely I even wondered if I would prefer the rants as before. At least we had some kind of contact. But I'm working on my grief instead. We never had a relationship so what I'm missing basically is an illusion that wasn't good to start with. It's very reassuring to know that it's all according to plan and I'm exactly where I need to be. Thank you.
First I’d like to say my heart goes to you. Silent treatments are a very toxic behavior and not what parent is supposed to do. Believe me, once they realize their silent treatment doesn’t work anymore and have no effect whatsoever, they will not do them anymore. Once you realize how poor their behavior is and really start seeing through their personality, you will be free because you will not care for anyone treating you poorly anymore.
Yes that sounds very tough. I’m working on doing the same.. they really keep you busy and keep you gainfully employee dealing with their madness. When it’s gone, all that wiring is still in there. The ruts have been wore down and the cravings for adrenaline, chaos, madness, ups and downs still persists. Then your left wondering how to substitute healthy behaviors for this hunger for madness. It’s a vicious place to be in but so worth it once you make it through the toughest parts of it.
Silent treatment and Gaslighting is their weapon of choice. They won't stop using these weapons. You will have to take cover.
I’d dump her like a hot rock.
Forget that hater.
Same boat here
God, I love this woman. A breath of fresh air!
Agree 😃
Narcissists like to provoke people in to reacting to them. It's what they live for. Your reaction, whether it be positive or negative, gives them validation. Your reaction gives them the fuel they crave, otherwise known as narcissistic supply.
These individuals are seriously disturbed and if you are unfortunate enough to become entangled with one then do all you can to maintain as much distance from them as is possible.
I learned to do this by age 14 or 15 with my dad and at the time I had never heard of narcissistic personality disorder or anything related. You're so right that they get agitated; I very clearly remember him asking me "What's wrong with you? Why are you so emotionless". He then had to turn to a lot of other sources for supply.
It would take my narc parents months to notice sometimes (other times, right away), but the second they did they would rage violently. The dad would threaeten to beat me, the mom would call me every ugly name in the book and go into full on theatrics (crying, wild flailing hands, asking the heavens why they cursed her with me, pretending she was going to have a heart attack), and they would both scream at the top of their lungs right in my face.
Once I couldn't help my thoughts from slipping out, "This is supposed to make me WANT to talk to you?"
The screaming after that was so loud that I had ringing in my ears for the next 2 days.
My narc called me at work last week to tell me that he deserved to be treated better than I've been treating him and he has to end all communication. It's been about 2 years of gray rocking him, and I'm hoping it finally works.
Sounds like the narcissist HATES indifference, and it’s the best way to watch them exhaust themselves while spending very little energy yourself, and you can do it with a clear conscience because they are choosing to be nasty, not you
Great point
This person used to do things to me, and though I tried to pull away or said” I don’t want you to do that”, continued. It felt like a kind of torture. The person said it was done to at least get some kind of response, as I had been grey rocking. (Actually mostly depressed and really tired.)
My narc ex-"friend" seemed kind of intimated by me when I ran into him in public after having given his hour-long manipulative tirade no emotional reaction whatsoever. I suspect he felt embarrassed by his ineffectiveness and probably somewhat exposed as well. Granted I should have never given him the time of the day to begin with but it was still kind of amusing to see the narcissist squirm for a change.
Misery loves company and narcs are permanently miserable and want you to accompany them at all cost
Nytro-Nick “permanently miserable” resonated with me. Can you tell me more? Or does anybody else want to weigh in?
Brightness, Dr Ramani Speaks about their insecurities in this very video. Not sure this is applicable here but Sam Vaknin (the granddaddy of narcissism, a self admitted one himself who is trying to educate others) has a video out titled “The narcs inner world and their intimate partner: new directions” with cutting edge belief that through “cold therapy” a narc can change. Of course this is not up to us to fix them as surely we will be stampeded but I find it interesting nonetheless. 💐
Loretta Nericcio-Bohlman thank you! I’ve seen a few of his videos and have mixed feelings - like I wonder if I should trust an admitted narcissist? I’m a little frightened to get too involved there.
I’m curious to view this specific piece and will check it out. Thank you for telling me about it. It sounds insightful.
so true
@@lorettanericcio-bohlman567 I think for anything to have a chance of changing a narcissistic person it has to get past the fight reflex mask they wear and get to the actual emaciated inner child. It's like trying to deal with an actor and getting past them continually playing a role and actually get to the person behind the role.
That title the narc gave to his video just sounds like the usual narc gooming - 'intimate' parner and 'new direction'. More hampster wheel fodder.
As the dog whisperer, Cesar Millan says..
"NO Touch, NO Talk, NO Eye contact"
YES
Gray rock: you give them no supply. I don't react to their manipulation, anger, guilt, shame. I'm not a good supply.
My mother is a covert narcissist and gray rock has saved my sanity. I thought there was something wrong with me since I was a child and even went to school for psychology to try and figure out what was so wrong with me. Videos like this and people like you are the reason I live a full and (mostly) mentally healthy life today. Thank you so much for all that you do. You help people so much and I'm so grateful for your channel and you as a person.
Yup. I started gray rocking at about 17. I realized there was no point in engaging. So I went straight Dr Cox in his happy place. Now I just leave.
@@joepell7190 OMG i did that when I was a teen but didn't know I was doing that I started smiling all the time because they wanted to complain about me being overly sensitive etc. Never going to let them see they could be getting to me.
I had already known from living with them no point in telling them anything personal because it would be all my fault and they wouldn't help me learn how to deal with life.
I felt the exact same way!
I always thought there was something wrong with me too. Even now I catch myself thinking it and have to consciously correct myself.
@@joepell7190 Well done. I spent my entire life trying to make my N mother happy, forever failing at doing/saying/thinking/feeling the right things (the accusations of thought crimes have been ridiculous). At the age of 50 I am finally starting to practice grey rocking. I hope to not have to wait for hee to die before I can start living my life.
Having to do this was as difficult as engaging with the narcissist. Hiding joy is a miserable way to live when all you want to do is radiate love and gratitude.
Even though it’s a great strategy for self preservation, they still are controlling your behavior. You’re still playing their little game, you’re just playing it wrong intentionally.
It’s really only effective if you go grey rock toward all of their tendrils of devotees, too - like children you share who are encouraged to report your every move to them. I finally divorced my narc, but I soon found myself in a constant state of gray rock with our children.During our marriage, he took all of my power, but after our divorce he used any info he could get from the kids to smear me behind my back. We’ve been divorced for years, but my children learned well from him. I’ll never be able to be me around them, either.
Playing this way too long distorts your sense of self. Self preservation becomes self denial. The pieces of myself I hid became buried so deep, I couldn’t find them after awhile. Some of them died.
I read something like “I lost myself trying to please everyone else. Now that I’m finding myself, I’m losing all of them.” It’s a cycle that will never end for me.
@@rosestudstrup540 I'm so sorry
I lost my ability to "radiate" love and gratitude due to decades of "grey rockin". I have to feel comfortable to give love and gratitude and can't just let it out wherever I go.
@@Castle3179I am sorry you are having to go through this. it may feel like your light has been lost, but I believe you are Love at your core. It only takes a tiny ember to create a bonfire. Even if your light feels small now, it may grow and radiate again in time. You may even light the way for others some day
@@rosestudstrup540 I'm so sorry. How utterly awful to have your own children poisoned against you. I hope you can be yourself with people who truly like and love you and can give the companionship you so deserve.
I’ve been gray rocking my whole life and never even knew it.
He discarded me the moment i turned grey rock 😂.....
Mine too. Soon as I became a bad supply he started writing hot love letters to his old girlfriend. Found out last night she wasn't the only one either.
This is hard when your an empath
Even harder when ur an empath who has a child with a narc
@@AC-ql5gb That's why you divorce that person.
th-cam.com/video/Kf7Yb69NPrA/w-d-xo.html
You have to learn to keep an objective divide involving effective use of claiming space and time to observe silently and process the best measured response rather than reaction from within your own private bubble. You can feel, empathise, ovjectify and neutralise that way from your own calm centred, peaceful integrated balanced inner self. Whether you respond with empathy is fine, and up to you, the important thing, is that you remain centred and calm and confident in your own neutral balanced objectivity from within your own true self with neutrality, you do not allow yourself to be sucked into the emotional vortex the other person attempts to draw you into. You are you, you empathise however you remain centred solid as a rock, always integral to yourself, withing losing yourself in the emotional swamp of the other person. ✌
It's not, you should think about yourself first. It's the only way to protect yourself.
Whenever I hear a councilor say to call out a narc on their behavior, I know they don't have a clue. I've been around alot of them and gray rock is the only way!
Colleen Mayes I did that mistake calling him out on his bs. He got upset. I’m so sorry I spent 8 yrs on and off with him. Everyone told me to run. But I honestly thought I was following my heart. I just dumped him New Year’s Eve due to the silent treatment 5 days early. He blew me off for a date night through a text and never heard back. So on day 5 it all hit me hard. I finally realized what was going on. I took his clothes he had at my house, backed it up and dropped it off his house. Boy he went crazy when he saw that and blew my phone up with blaming me. I guess I should have just thrown it away. Lesson learned.
I know I should blocked him on FB but I did push the button to not see notifications from him both on FB and my phone.
Going out on a date tonight. I swear if he talks about how great he is and looking for validation it the door for me.
I’ve been fooled one to many times.
@@lynnweiner4581 they cannot stand not being in control and it is when they get the nastiest in my experience.
I called out my 'come and go' covert Narc simply so he knew that I knew. I didn't get emotional or upset, I just calmly stated the facts about his lies and told him I'd lost all admiration and respect for him. He won't be back this time. Mission accomplished.
A losing argument
not true, there are many types of narcissists
I am binge watching your videos for the past three days. At some point I thought “oh am I a narcissist?” But then I reminded myself that we all have narcissistic tendencies even if we are not narcissistic or have NPD. These videos are helping me to deeply reflect on my behavior and also stay aware of narcissistic people around me or people with narcissistic tendencies. Thank you for your work, Dr Ramani.
I have a version of this called “dog walking”. I have Ns in my life who always try to dig to find out what I’ve been doing with my life, and then put it down in some way, or how they have done the same thing, but better. So now when they talk all about their grandiose stuff, even if I went to Mars with Elon Musk the day before I say “Oh, just walking my dogs!”.
I'm at the dog park. lol Dogs are great! Narc's suck
Dogs are the anti-narc. Their pure love heals a great deal. They are the best companions if you're still getting used to trusting people. Adopt don't shop, you deserve a second chance and so does every dog 🙂
I’m adding this to my arsenal:)
I see. Even if I had a great day, don't tell them about it. Be boring.
My husband hates when I do well at work.
I'm trying my best to be as boring as possible by gray rocking. His attempts to get a reaction from me are almost comical. Knowledge is definitely power.
'His attempts to get a reaction out of me is almost comical'
You've altered your reaction to it amazingly! Seeing the funny side of it...now that's good...lol!
I am not sure I ever got totally dragged down by a narcissist and I think it may be because I basically don't care. And what I mean is don't feel like I need everyones approval in life. I just try to respect people and I don't take 'everything' personally. I know I not perfect, but I do like myself.
Meh, You are never going to please Everybody anyway....
Summer A 😂he's so predictable now that I know he's a narc that a lot of times I know exactly how he's gonna respond
They become so desperate they actually they to make competitions out of nowhere with family and friends as well they really are hella predictable
It does get pretty comical once you’ve figured them out. Understanding their bizarre & hurtful behavior is truly power. After seeing it for what it is, you can’t unsee it. It’s really healthy to find the humor in what is essentially, an abusive and hurtful situation.
Sarah Ranin - Very, very predictable!
"gray rock" is getting me through quarantine
Me too!!
underated
I’m trying.
I wish I had known this years ago. I never realized how much I was 'feeding' the narc.
“They get bored and leave, you WANT this”. 😢😢 🔪 💔
Gray Rock is what many marriages turn into...living with each other, but no communication.
That's so sad!
Gray rocking is different than avoidance
@@elupitasd1 I did not say avoidance.
"Gay Rock" for gay marriages.
@@dogmad6773 MGtow's the ultimate bunch of narcs.
“You’ve changed”
Classic narc line I get from my mother all the time!
That’s exactly what my narc said to me! Going on 7 months since no contact and I feel amazing!
everyone changes to a degree, that is the huge problem with Narcs, they dont change and because they dont change and they think they are perfect they expect everyone else to not change also......projection at its finest.
Best compliment to receive
Omg, I’ve heard that one before!
It’s so hard to realise that the person you love are not the person you think you’re in love with😔 Thanks Dr Ramani for all your videos, I feel so much more empowered with all the knowledge you’re sharing🙏🏽
I went grey rock, without knowing what it was called, two weeks before she ended it. She said I just carried this blank scowl around and stared at things like a space cadet. She got no more fuel from me and it was killing her. The final night she said "I'm just no longer emotionally attracted to you". So I went no contact and filed for divorce.
While it may be sad to watch the narcissist be disappointed and even upset or angry from not getting narcissistic supply out of you, it's best to remember that it comes at your expense. You have a right to protect your mental and emotional well-being.
A normal and decent person doesn't need to be an asshole to others to feel good about him or herself.
It's hard not to love your own mother, even if she's narrcisistic. I feel like writing "I love you" on a gray rock and throwing it at her. (I won't:)
Oh. My. Goodness!!! Exactly what you said!!!!
I struggle with this too. There are moments with my narc family I really cherish, moments where I can tell they had a genuine feeling or thought about me, but it doesn't change the abusive behavior. Distance has been best for me, keeping our conversations to light topics, not telling them much about my life. We actually have a mostly pleasant relationship when we keep to that, but when I have to see them and be close for a while it gets harder...
🤩😂🤭👍
Lmao 😂😂😂😂
f th
"They resent other people because they need them." So true,
I've tried gray rocking before and then fell back into the same rut, BUT, the past couple of months have been different. Keeping a journal of all the tricks and nasty things he does to me has been a game changer. Before keeping track, I just couldn't remember the things he had said and done. They weren't clear to me, and I was always second guessing his motives and DID I hear him correctly? Was I just being overly sensitive? WHAT was it he had done that was mean and nasty? Reading a whole two years of notes every time I have the urge to fight back, makes me smarten up and keep gray rockin'. It's working, but I'm always on edge, always suspicious, until it becomes second nature to gray rock... I keep a watch on my tongue. He's suffering. I can see it and he's pulling out all the stops to get me into a fight. Now, I seem to just look at him with pity, ... nothing else but pity and the awareness to stay away from his toxic behaviour.
I felt the same way. So confused. I think it’s from long term gaslighting. Stay strong we can do this, with the right information.
Wow that is not an easy thing to do or keep up with and I commend you for taking note. I think I might try it. Tired of the "gaslighting" and 2nd guessing myself.
@@neshayrobinson Keeping a journal has been a changing point for me. I definitely recomend it. I read back and realize there's no fixing the situation. Sad, but I'm not leaving, so I'll continue gray rocking. I fall now and then, but I'm getting better and better at finding ways of ignoring him. Aren't they just the worst people to be so impossible to live with?
Wishing u all the luck for this situation!
@ Linda Moore writing clarifies things. Keep writing !
Back in the 80’s, I found that if I was laughing or in some other way showing happiness, my mother would get pissed and rage on me. So I learned to act like I was unhappy when she came home.....and then she was fine, even happy herself. This was a wake up call for me.....but I still didn’t fully understand what I was dealing with.
Then, about 20 years later, she needed to stay at my house and alternate with staying at my sisters house. When I stayed in control of my emotions, when my mom was trying to press my buttons, trying to piss me off, it pissed my mom off so bad that I kept my cool, that she stayed at my sisters for the rest of the time.
Very sad, sad people, that want nothing more than to make others unhappy.....and that the only thing that makes them happy, is to cause others grief. She died this last Christmas Day, in the morning.....just her style to crap on a beautiful happy day.
Yeah I had my one solid rock that helped me through my marriage to a narcissist. He died on Christmas day. That sent me into a tailspin. That's been 4 years ago. And...I'm finally getting what he taught me back. It wound up turning out that he was my cousin. But, having someone pass on Christmas isn't very fun. Cause even tho we're done with a narcissist if they were a parent it's still painful!!!
Grace Be yes that was my family, I’m the scapegoat so always made me cry and miserable, parents have been gone for a few years, went gray rock on them a few years before my mom passed, I finally realized they were two miserable, unhappy people that could never approve or like anything I did, I always felt such a loss when I saw other families that were genuine, also they could not show love or empathy, being narcissists it was always all about them, so sad that people turn out like that, both ended up as old narcies sitting in a room
😂
Grace Be. Exactly what my whole narcissist family & next door neighbour did
I can relate. I live with my parents (in our culture you live with your parents untill you marry someone and you live with your spouse) my mom gets happy when I'm sad or angry. And wakes up angry just because I wake up happy. Her mood is the opposit of mine. It's sad but I have to cop with it.
When I first went grey rock the abuse really escalated. She was so so angry, you could see the contempt for me in her eyes. She tried to regain control by giving me the silent treatment and badmouthing me to everyone in our circle. It was a really horrible time and it broke me to be honest, I cried many tears behind closed doors, but I was stone faced when I was in the room with her and pretended it didn't bother me. She then tried to triangulate me. I know it was meant to show me I was easily replaced and it was meant to hurt me.
I don't care anymore. I realise that anything she does nowadays is just a projection of what goes on on the inside. I don't need her to like me to know I'm a good person. I have no hate for her either, just pity. I can see the broken person behind the mask now.
I hope your feeling better. Because you are better than all that treatment.....period 😊
Marit, you've come a long way. Bravo!
They act like five year olds.
Yes '' PITY ''is the word😏😏
@@livinggood6876 3 year olds five year olds are sweet
I always feel like jumping in when someone else is being abused by the narcissit. Like, I understand narcissistic tendencies and can recognize them, and have this urge to deflect the narc's attention away from naive people. I know it's messed up because I'm trying to heal too...but watching them hurt other people from an outside perspective is really painful. Can you make a video on how to deal with this?
This makes sense and it works. I went no contact with my father for 6 years and then he made contact to patch things up. I agreed to have him over for coffee. He didn’t even sit down before he started verbally abusing me; calling me evil and a horrible person. Told me he got a stomach ace every time he had to see me. I sat still, listened and thought to my self; “respond, don’t react. Stay still and serene”. I asked him questions and calmly tried to tell him my side of the story. He abrupt me and told me “not to talk about what have happened earlier, just look forward”…- and then he kept talking about old things I had said and done for the past 30 years to prove my horrible personality for another hour. I sat still. Then I just mouth talked him until he left. No argument. No feelings. Just had a goal to get him out the door without having my feelings hurt more than he did. I made a silent promise to myself as I heard my father describe me as this horrible person he didn’t want to spend time with; A father that talks to his daughter like this doesn’t deserve my love. Now another 3 years have passed, and I’m still no contact. This week something happened that made it necessary to engage in a group message with him and my siblings. I could tell how he acted to stir up trouble. I just said what I needed to say in a polite and distant way without responding to his insults. It hurts to see him expressing love to my sister but not to me, but I am not going to act on it. I am just grateful that I am getting aware of how narcissistic he is and how I am able to recognize it and act in my own best interest when I see him. It’s hard to acknowledge that I don’t love my father any more but there is no love in a relationship with a narcissist.
Thank you Dr Romani for all your lessons on how to preserve our dignity in meetings with a narcissist. It has made me stronger and able to start removing my shame and guilt for having such a hard time with my family. I am healing thanks to you.
Gray rocking has been most pivotal & game-changing in my life dealing w/parasitic type people.
They try, try & try to push buttons, gaslight & throw everything at you including the kitchen sink yet STAND TALL, REMAIN CALM & UNMOVED.
GRAY ROCKING is like building a FORTRESS around your little world that they once had access to but now have been fully banished from.
How to deal w/narcs?
DON'T. AT. ALL.
GAME OVER.
THE END.
I’m going to get several gray rocks and place them around to remind me ‘I can do this.’
Rose Briseño oh I love this idea
In my case it's my mother. Since grey rocking her and going low contact, she has told me that she's proud of me for letting her go. Sure she does some odd passive aggressive texting and backhanded insults but for the most part I think it's working. Right now I think she's pretty darn angry with me. But I'm so much more peaceful. Thank you Doctor Ramani for your videos!
For those in a relationship with a narcissist, diarise your experience. Record what's going on and your progress in dealing with the problem. This record could come in handy one day.
I totally agree with dr Ramani. I read a psychologist advise "Unloving adults never change. Physically escaping is the best course of action but if that’s not possible, at least, keep a wary distance" It refers to all of them, your parents, siblings, spouse, friends, co-workers.
THEY DO NOT CHANGE. Too many unsuspecting victims out there to feast upon.
I'm no contact now. But when I would gray rock my narc "mom" she would say I had a chip on my shoulder and an attitude. Good riddance! I couldn't be happier now and feel so much peace. 🤗
Good for you! That chip was your gray rock.
Grey Rock method is the best weapons against Psychotic Narcissists. They can't get to you anymore. Its really funny watching them frustrated because their words now fall on deaf ears.
I didn't realize theres a word for this and this is something I've done with parents as I was growing up. I was seen as having a rebellious and controlling phase when I stopped responding to criticism and devaluation. I stopped apologizing to them when they mistreated me and they believed I was becoming prideful and toxic.
Gray Rock is a perfect name. I did it with my sister, but didn’t know I was. And boy she tried, finally across at me during a family dinner, making faces like a small child. Before that, just after our mother died, she punched me in the arm when no one was at the table, I got up and walked away. So going into the fourth year of no contact with her, been this profound relief. No anxiety about my family, or her. I am dealing fine. Helps to have my daughter and family living close by the last few years, and their support.
Wanda CUSTANCE, you look stunning
I didn’t know that my distancing and non communication had a term. I find that it also works for non narcissist but toxic people
yeah I know someone that is crazy has a diagnosis and I had to go non contact other than we're in the same circles be polite and civil but don't feed the narc.
I can’t help doing it with toxic people. It’s an instinct
It is they only way to deal with abusive people especially if you are married to or living with one who has these traits. Finding the higher spiritual space to find peace while you work through the demise of a toxic relationship is probably the hardest thing I have ever done. It was well worth the effort and takes nerves of steel.
Narc , Toxic , Dangerous same category ....make FAST EXIT
Do non narcissistic toxic ppl even exist ?? … cz I feel that almost all toxicity ( behaviourwise) stems from a level of narcissism .. I might be wrong but who knows 🤷🏽♀️
I have recently found your videos and am finally learning so very much. I am married for 30 plus years to a person who started his bizarre narcissist behavior about 12 years ago, after his mother stopped visiting us. I have found out she was overt narcissist thru watching your videos. Thank you for your insights and expertise, life with him has been a living hell and I was doing all the wrong things, (of course) He would laugh when he found out he could , as he said, push my buttons. The sad part is my ex was also a overt narcissist and I was so very naive and unable to handle it. He turned my kids against me, as they do when they are rejected. I love this gray rock method and will practice it with a vengence..I am also standing my ground...
That's a great idea, to keep a grey rock as a reminder in my pocket! ❤
She seems the wise mother/grandmother you could talk to and would actually be able to give you legit advice
Brian K she’s a hot young looking grandmother if I say
Yes, please adopt me and my best friend, we both had a narc parent and an enabler! 😆😭
I had one tell me I was "sociopathic" because I was unemotional.
It was to get a reaction of some kind that’s all. They can’t help themselves, that’s why it tends to escalate the more stoic you become until they’ve burnt up all their own energy
After 20 years of feeding my ex's narcissistic behavior, I went Grey Rock & was immediately called a sociopath. We were divorced in 3 months.
@@ssankofa I am from India, west bengal. My mother is a pshycopath. Also my father is another one. I am 26 male and was her permanent supply for decades. But as of now I aware that she is a pshyco and extremely jealous about my business and career. So I apply Grey Rock with them nearly about 7 months. But still she dont lose interest in me. She regularly baiting me and provoking me with insults and threats and bullying. So Should I keep grey rock or hang it??
@@bravodiyemon1757 Just remember ... they feed on your energy ... positive or negative ... it doesn't matter. When provoked ... don't react in a way that feeds their narcissistic supply.
@@ssankofa But how can it possible if they acts like predator?? They Isolate me from my childhood, they prey on myself. When they loose control and power over me they get violent. Especially my pshyco mother looks like a demon when enraged. She should be beaten by healthy humans
They resent others because they need them. Emotional dependence creates hostility.
Its so nice to have a word for this grey rocking helped me so much with dealing with narcissists who I unfortunately can't avoid for several practical reasons, sometimes I throw them some empty calorie supply just to get them off my back. It works so well that they think they are punishing me by not inviting me to things 😂.
The best way to spot a narcissistic person is that they usually have a smug superiority about them . They might smirk at people or be disdainful and dismissive of people and they ignored people who are less than them. Or they can be really condescending . Even when they are trying to be genuine to their inferior peers they still have a smug tone to their voice while smirking at the person. And enjoy acting morally superior making a drama power tripping someone .They are not humble . They boast they always have something to make them look important. They say excuse me a lot .
Like money they have swindled someone one out of, fancy car and lord have mercy every one is jealous of them
It isn’t always true. Mine won me over with kindness. He knows he can have people in the palm of his hand with that sweet, gentle, giver act. The red flag was the constant boasting about it, “oh, I’m just so good; I’m such a good person; I want to help people; people usually come to me for advice; me, me, me.” Me being empathetic to a fault, I ate it up. I don’t trust people anymore. If someone shows me kindness I question their motives. I question my own motives when being kind. I’m terrified of being like him, subconsciously trying to manipulate people for X or Y reason.
The one thing I rely on is my intuition. I knew something was off, but it didn’t correlate with his actions so I dismissed it. I have to trust my gut when it tells me “this is bullshit.”
So true smug superiority and condescending.About 50% of people.As soon as I see that smugness now I run a mile
Narcissistic mom had a tantrum, yelling at me, and finally bringing up that she wanted me to argue and fight with her. I told her I just can’t do it anymore. Our relationship is basically this now, me as a gray rock. It’s clear that if I’m not engaging with her, positively or negatively, she flips out. She’s starting to realize she can’t rely on me for the confrontations and attention
Me too! Such demonic babies! No contact! She can torture elsewhere!
@@iniubongnkanga9390 pls stop making me erase you!
Good for you. I wish I could do the same. Unfortunately I thought I was making progress and made the mistake of doing business with this person. Now it feels like I have to start my whole life over because this person's insecurities and impulses have literally drained me dry. I realized I don't have time for her to figure out what she's doing wrong and how she can fix it without feeling as if she's getting the short end of the stick and why it should matter if it's for your own daughter. She has always had a habit of realizing she was wrong a decade after the fact. I cant be your confidante and punching bag forever Mom. I've got to leave you behind because you should know and act like you know this by now. She did it again today....dont know what to do. We both have a bad sickness, but she is reckless with it to a severe degree and cant take stress at all. Walking away seems mean, but shes leaving me no choice and a resent her for it.
Lauren Ott this happened with my husband, a narcissist, really confused him, started setting boundaries and told him I wasn’t fighting any more
vampire needs feed....your attention and emotional stress...stay in control
Wow. I did this for a long time to cope without knowing I was with a Narcissist. I knew he was getting bored because I stopped giving him supply so He started to cheat out of desperation with a much older woman and pretended to be innocent, coming home late,sleeping next to me ,sweet and very attentive like nothing was going on. Thanks God I did this gray rock technique to empower and give me strength to kick him out my life after 9 years together.
I am so grateful to you for taking the time to explain all of this to us. I've been lost for decades. I guess I used my sixth sense to "gray rock" before the term was coined. But it was a sense not an explanation. I only started understanding recently when I found these videos. It's no wonder I felt crazy. I never understood a narcissists dynamic. They are like a black hole vacuuming up everyone's energy until it's gone and find it elsewhere . I always thought it was me. I thought there was something terribly wrong with me. Well, now, forewarned is fore armed. At least now I can take the knowledge you gave me and take it with me wherever I go. A shield of protection. Knowledge is truly power. Many thanks Dr. Ramani!!!
Grey Rocking I believe may have saved my life because my narc left me alone after that.
Only no contact will save you total no contact other wise he will hoover you no matter even after years narcissist thinking we belong to them until I e of us die !!!
That's my hope!!! ✌️❤️😉
How satisfying!
I do this automatically with my boss - perhaps because I learned to go 'invisible' as a child. I could walk through a room absolutely unseen and unnoticed. I would just 'cloak' myself - as in the Harry Potter series - which seems similar to going 'gray rock'. The difference for me is that cloaking was out of fear for my survival from a place of disempowerment, where as going gray rock is an empowered decision to not engage. Same behavior from a different perspective. Thank you for this, which enables me to be empowered rather than disempowered with the same behavior.
I love your cloaking analogy. It's as if our energy field has switched to an invisible protective layer when we stop engaging with manipulative people.
A friend referred to this as using reverse NLP - ie only share the dull, uninteresting side of your personality until they get bored and look for someone more engaged. 🧡
Thank you, Dr. Ramani! “I’m woke now.”
Patty,your pretty smile can make the news!
I love your posts. I left a covert narc after 38 years, and now have no family. My grown children, my sister and her husband, nieces, nephews etc. All believed him. It sort of surprises me (and hurts) that even though the truth is so obvious (he was financially abusive, and tho I worked longer and harder than he ever did, he convinced everyone, including the court that everything was his, I was a “goldigger” and had “nothing to show” for all my work) He got all the assets, I got all the debt.
But the worst part to me, was not one person asked me how I was feeling, why I was leaving, no one, including him, asked me to stay, or come back. None of them could care less that I’m gone.
Stay strong QUEEN ❤🔥🌠
It will get better. Let yourself heal. Meet new people, try new things, learn new stuff, take yourself on a weekend vacation. Give yourself plenty of time. Know that you deserve real love and authentic friendship.
No joke, there was an advertisement for stone countertops during this video.
It was an instant soup in my case. Now I'll wonder what was the deep meaning of that :)
Lmao!!!!!
@@Izabela-ek5nh soup for the soul 🤷♀️🤭
Makes sense.
I was discarded by a narcissist at work recently after I grey rocked. Thank you for the reminder that this is good.
This only will punish you ...that kind will punish you for this they hypersensitive for manipulation he might be quiet ...but he plans already your punishment the best it's no contact otherwise you give them fuel good or bad that still fuel you feeding them with a fuel ...the grey rock it's provocative motive self suncide Dr Ramani it's wrong here ...
Did this too. And boom! They came back hard as, in the past week. Gloves are off now. Everything has to be in writing now. I’m done. No more mud wrestling.
I've always been a quiet, guarded person, and got lots of heck for it growing up. So I always feel pressured to talk more, reveal more of myself like others do. My boss is a covert narc, so I sort of started being even quieter than usual, and one day he said "Daphne is quiet AS A MOUSE!" Maybe that was meant to trigger me, but it didn't work, thank God.
Thank you, Dr. R. for all of your videos.
When I was a child I disassociated badly, I do not remember most of my childhood. Now I do the grey rock method when I cannot get away. I do still struggle with dissociation but am getting better at staying present and choosing to greyrock
I so get that..........internal shaking as well.
I dissociated when I was a child because.my narcissistic mother invalidaded my feelings and I was made feel like I was too much. I am starting to get in touch with my emotions now and it's a slow process.
@@Sunshinelotus22 Same here
Thats one plus to dissociation i can have people trying to bother me and they dont even exist to me i even ask them for help then disreguard them after as a fu
Oh my gosh, I never heard anyone put it that way. Yes, I did the same. 🤗🤗🤗🥲
I have a permanent Pokerface due to instinctually Grey Rocking through my Childhood and Adolescence as a defense mechanism against my Grandiose Mom and Covert Sister. It’s a great method for people that you see in school or work settings. However, it can be detrimental when done for so long that it becomes your personality. Because of this, I don’t know how to show my true personality anymore. Not even to my stable, well meaning friends.
I feel like I had to act on a stage in a play.. I allowed my partner to siphon my emotions and energies. I feel so discombobulated that I still have anxieties about making decisions on day to day basis. I am still very hurt inside and wished I could shake these desolate feelings I have.
I do agree that gray rock is about the only way to deal with a narcissist, but I'm also very familiar with this concept of losing ourselves if this was the main or only mode of being that we learned as a child. It's like gray rock BECOMES our identity. It's important to find individuals with whom you CAN trust and who will support you. You can't do gray rock all the time. I don't think it's healthy.
I found myself going grey rock and no contact with people, instinctively, and often, without being able to help me. It is like something in me just started being anxious about people, and this was the only way to feel safe. I sort of dislike how it is just...happening without me choosing.
you reminded me of something in my childhood. I'd gotten "the belt" once, when it was my brother's turn, I whispered to him "don't cry, that's what they want"
In Sync with the Infinite Tundra this is such an interesting point because I heard somewhere that ultimately, one of the narcissist’s goals is to make you like they are: as emotionless as they can be.
For a few years now you've saved me, Dr. Ramani. Since 2020 right in the beginning of quarantine my narc broke up with me on my birthday - I found your youtube teachings and you completely got me through this incredibly lonely time when I didn't even know there was a name for what I was suffering. Thank you SO SO much.
I have a quiet confidence about me and I’ve definitely experienced this my whole life and even more recently with what I thought was a friend and mentor. After doing some individual counceling with an amazing counselor, and finding Dr. Ramani’s videos, I have decided to put some space between myself and these individuals, and now the healing process begins. It took 32 years for me to finally get to this point, and I’m excited to find out what my future holds. I have hope!
One of them said to me “Oh so you’re really in control now?”
LOL - exactly what to expect ! So funny.
This is when you know they know you know and are SHOOK 👌🏾😂😂😂
They all become the very person they hate they self reflect into everyone the truely smart ones are the ones who don't deny there reality u see it you leave it
"What are you on some 'I am woman hear me roar' shit now?" Yeah. That's what he said when I started going gray rock on him. Yes. As a matter of fact, I am. And now I'm just over 3 months no-contact.
Mine asked me.... WHAT? DID YOU LEARN THAT ON OPRAH 😕
lol!
Mine said, "What, are you pretending to be a lawyer now?" I just chose my words & tone very carefully, lol. (Then he went into a narcissistic rage, started projecting etc)
Love it
Yes! Roar woman roar! (for yourself!)
Thank you so much Dr Ramani! you've helped me overcome a difficult narcissist relationships where the narcissist wanted to take over my house. You saved me a lot of pain and stress x
I was brought up by a narcissist, answering a question was mandatory.
This is the only thing that helps. Dont play into their sickness.
I've found peace and strength from comfortable silence...it's beautiful!
I remember when my narc would make remarks he knew were highly provocative to me and and I started responding with "Mmmhmm" instead of what I was I was really thinking. It was cartoonishly comical to see his face when the rug was yanked out from under him when I realized I didn't have to rise to his bait.
I completely avoided them for 3 months before my narc of 6 years reached out, and then it took all of my courage to be honest and tell them our friendship wasnt healthy. Of course, they twisted my words and made me look like the bad guy. and i know for a fact they've already painted me as such with all their pals🥰🥰
It's hard to get out, but it is possible. To anyone who still has a narc in your life,
I believe in you.
I SO needed this today. I left the narcissist in November. I doubt my decision; then, I am happy with my decision. I am on a rollercoaster! Being FREE was the goal! And, 2020 should be 20/20 vision!
B Johnson.....WHY WOULD YOU STILL WANT TO BE WITH A RUDE, COLD, SADISTIC , ABUSIVE PERSON!....NARCISSIST DO NOT LOVE ANYONE OR ANYTHING, BUT THEMSELVES!......MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE!
@@seventhchild7270 I know you are right. Just a bad time of year and all the old routines are gone.
B Johnson.....I UNDERSTAND, BUT THESE DEVILS ARE COLD, SOULESS, PARASITES!...PRAY CONSTANTLY AND ASK GOD TO STRENGTHEN YOU.....LIFE IS SO SHORT AND WE ONLY HAVE ONE LIFE!....STAY STRONG AND GO COMPLETE NO CONTACT!
@@seventhchild7270 Thank you. Your comment gave me strength. My mind is where it needs to be today.
@@cmsbeth Hang in there. You'll feel like a drug addict for a while, as if you need the narc's "love" to survive. The holidays will be difficult. But it gets better overtime. Get to know yourself again. Remember the things that you liked doing before you got moulded by the narc. Reconnect with the good friends you lost along the way. Get all the support you need. Learn about narcissistic abuse in order to fully understand how lucky you were to get out. Angela Lewis is right, if you can, go cold turkey. No contact. If you have children, keep contact with the narc to a minimum. But keep busy for the first few months. Just. Keep. Busy.
Haha. Best response I had was a very angry and frustrated “You can do this being mature thing with other people but don’t do that stuff with me!”
S Venter OMG that’s hilarious! Its so funny what comes out of their mouths when they are not getting what they want.
I get told very similarly... you don’t do this or that because you won’t get away with it with them. You are onnnnly this way with ME. Interesting. They try and make sure or they absolutely make sure don’t do this with others for the same reason. They KNOW... they WON’T get away with it with THEM....just... YOU.
@@maggiemae9099 ... I say... just don’t clean their litter box for them. Meow... =^..^=
I liked the way you put it.... sand box. I just put a twist on it referencing the Cat.
LOL! How dare you, being mature ;)
Lol what?!🤔😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣 The crap they let out of their mouths is hilarious af!!
Yes, they find a way to demean you when you aren't so available to them. I've been taking a break from interacting with my mother, and yesterday she asked me if I'm okay... not in a caring or concerned way but in a "now what's wrong with you" tone. I am giving myself credit for somehow managing to stay sane after decades of dealing with her crap.
I have a gray stone. I hope that's all right. I use it to scrub off dead skin. What a significant reminder. 😊💐🇵🇭