@@Spice8Rack Really it's fucking silly that people use the Latinate pluralization instead of the Greek. We should probably just try to stick to Octopuses since Octopodes is never gonna happen.
I'm not sure what it says about me or this channel that I saw a ~50 minute video and thought "oh nice, a short one!" Thanks for the great work as always, Spice!
Spice has a talent for choosing topics that are so obscure yet so relatable, that every time I see a new video I am baffeled for 20 seconds before I am enraptured for 3 watchthroughs.
@@Spice8Rack As a changeling you should recognize there are no obsolete creature types. You are all of them. Every time they print a new changeling, we get a new Pincher.
@@erisdiscordia5429 unfortunately this only applies because Changeling is a comparative taxonomy and only is able to add to the 'Pincher' type so long as there remains an original 'Pincher' to model after. I for one am hugely in favor of and respect the Homarid pinching the tip of my peanits, and so endeavor to embody both.
I made an Istavan "crazy old man in the woods" deck and its unironically one of my favorite. every card gets me to laugh and he is surprisingly powerful cause everyone forgets he cant be killed by damage!
@@Spice8Rack daym, i came to this video for the usual healthy mix of comedy and insight, i wasnt ready for this level of comment section philosophy. well played, my dear (how did you put it) no good leftist communist queer ❤
@@Spice8Rack Tbh its inspired me some. My hair has grown about as long as yours due to the crippling dep- just not getting around to cutting it for a while. I've had no idea what to do with it but it looks great on you and I have had a similar style in highschool so I may try it out once again.
I legit love that it took the time to do a video that was a bit more on the silly side, as much as I absolutely adored the deep lore analysis of Tarkir... Like, to do that every time would be so rough and unsustainable.
@donovans8904 You got your answer, but I feel it's worth pointing out WoTC did an actual Men In Black conspiracy theorist-style raid on a dude who had essentially done nothing wrong. Like.....if this happened in a fictional story I'd call the writer a hack. But it actually happened. Just....what a time to be alive.
naga actually wasn't changed for cultural sensitivity reasons, like rakshasa. it was changed for the same reason viashino was, that snake people should be snakes, and lizard people should be lizards
I do actually have a justification for running blue in my kavu deck, outside of just the commander pumping out kavu. The deck is accompanied by 5 extra copies of kavu chameleon, so that when I kick a rite of replication, I can lay them down and say, "Kavu, kavu, kavu, kavu, kavu chameleon." It's not much, but it makes me happy.
So glad to find someone else runing a Kavu deck. I'm a weirdo running a stompies gruul deck around Kavu, but it's so nice to see others using them for strange jokes..... Though I may also have made the kavu chameleon joke before....
I like how you did the wording for Kithkin. Because of how the rules work, if a creature is blinked it becomes a new object. You could reference the card but I can't think of how that would be worded. My idea for it is something like: "When a creature you control enters the battlefield from exile" because that's more broad, allows for more strategies like a couple of Eldrazi that interact with exile and adventure, and is way less wordy, but it could also be something like "When a creature you control that shares a name with a creature that left the battlefield this turn enters the battlefield" which is the best way I can think of to phrase it.
The last part with the name should most likely contain "non-token creature" since tokens all have the same name it could cause some really easy to abuse mechanics depending on what the ability itself is. Basically you have a source to sacrifice for so you sac one token and make 5 more with the same name and get 5 triggers for the ability.
@@OnetastyJoe Yeah, but you could just do "from exile" at the end since tokens can't change zones which I like better now that I think about it because it is about as close to only referencing blinking as you can get
@@MartianSantas Since changelings have all creature types, they also have the child and soldier creature types. The former being introduced in unfinity.
@@MartianSantas Well, like the video eluded, ever since unfinity, god bless unfinity, child is now a creature type, Since changelings are all creature types, they are children. (Wee Champion is in fact commander legal) For the longest time now, soldier is a common creature type, thus changelings are also soldiers. Therefore, it is accurate to say that changelings are child soldiers (and a lot of other creature types too, some of the funnier ones being Gamer, Coward and Wall)
I feel like spice is always doing his best to look like the morally ambiguous season 1 villain that turns into a recurring character from that show you watched 10 years ago
“I cut my hair for me and not for you” has the same energy as Brian David Gilbert saying “I’m not your friend, and you have no say over what I do with my body”
I think the answer for Kithkin is probably a mechanical reimagining of what the Thoughtweft does for kithkin, and a look at other hive-minded beings like the slivers. so my Idea is... Thoughtweft - whenever a spell or ability targets [CARDNAME], it instead targets each creature that shares a creature type with [CARDNAME]. this way you can say... keep the Kithkin ability to support career types while also having an interlocking bond within themselves to have various on-board tricks, etbs, AND mass flicker if you want it?
Don't worry - my uncle works at WotC of the Coast and he says that 2027's Thermal Vents of Iquatana set is bringing back Homarids in a big way. We're in a pinch now but the tide is turning.
One of my picks has to be the Berserker creature type, just an absolutely baffling existence. It feels like it wants to be errated to be warrior or similar but was just printed in bloomburrow. The only commonality they share is that they’re usually red and encourage a high power reckless strategy. Just a type with zero cohesion but inexplicably still existing, I love it, I want more berserkers
Kithkin are THE "white weenies" type. You get three cards which scale off the size of your mob, several ways to produce Kithkin tokens (as spells and on permanents), Brigid is there to make blocking your 1/1s hard(er) and several cards are small, cheap creatures that provide characteristically White utility (lifegain, damage prevention, blink, counters, flying...). For the Lorwyn return I want Kithkin to be the pure "go wide" strat AND I want them to receive batching with halflings (so that the inevitable Kithkin commanders would say "Kithkin and Halflings you control get +1/+1 for each Kithkin or Halfling you control).
I'm glad that the new influx of Lhurgoyfs in MH3 means that the creature type will stick around (presumably) since imo they were on the chopping block to get errata'd to the catch-all of Horror, similar to how they talked about Beasts in the video
0:34 I have actively perished, this is the greatest thing that has ever happened to me, I'm so glad Mogg has found a good home, was amazing meeting you and this is the greatest thing I have ever and will ever achieve in my life (/j on that last part lol)
Spice, you are a frankly terrifying individual. Partly because I now know post-Amsterdam (I said hi outside the hotel sunday morning) how tall you are, but mostly because your videos are always like a university lecture being given on a rollercoaster. The world needs individuals like you. Please keep being whatever this is. It's brilliant and necessary that material like this is produced. And big up the patreon H.K. Bergdahl. Hälsa Karl-Bertil.
Spellshapers! Me! I remember them.. they were a thing when I started playing, and Greel, Mind Raker was my first fancy foil I ever got! Also truly fabulous hair!
The bit about Kavu made me think about scarecrows, how they're colourless artifacts that care about coloured mana & identity, part of their origins as more of a draft-filler support than anything meant to be a proper creature type, but exploring it on its own in a similar vein as you did with Kavu would be very interesting, a faction of artifacts that want to be paired with something rather than being run as straight tribal on their own.
Maybe the scarecrow are mostly colorless that care about colored mana but have a few major bombs that require unusual amounts of colored mana across the five colors. Like a scarecrow that requires 4 red and 4 green mana with haste and trample that deals it's power as damage whenever a scarecrow becomes the target of a card
@@Spice8Rack I absolutely second this! I loved that you took the time for some introductions with the people you met! Asking people's names seems small but it makes it so much more personal. Also thank you very much for the signed scroll thief stealing the communist manifesto ♥♥♥
Coming from the Shuffle up n Play series, it is insane how much more quippy you are on your own spice! 4 minutes in and I'm overloaded with quip! I LOVE IT!
Just finished the homarid section and that comment about the play honestly makes me kind of sad. The work you did then sounds so interesting, as great as your magic videos are it's a shame we've never gotten to see that other work. I hope you're still happy and fullfilled with what you do today, and if not I hope you can make projects like that again someday
Fun fact in the Magic Comprehensive Rules (CR) there is a ruling that verbosely lists out ever single creature type. It's rule 206.3m. There is also an equivalent rule for all the other card types. In a similar vein 206.3a is the verbose ruling for city in a bottle which lists every single card that is effected by the bottle.
I was expecting a deep-dive into the significance of these types within Magic's history. But what I got was something even better! Your proposed fixes were pretty good.
14:34 Not technically a homarid, but Monstrous War-Leech from Dominaria United is being ridden by a homarid in the art and also mills and cares about cards in graveyard! Nifty.
Unironically the creativity and theoretical potential explored in this video is the most conceptually excited I've ever been for magic in the whole time I've played the game. PRAYING some of these ideas get picked up one day
Spice, you look AMAZING. Very timely video that fulfills some curiosity. I was just sorting a bunch of old cards and saw homarids for the first time and was wondering why they don't make those still!
Honestly one of my favourite things about the Spellshapers is their type is quite literally what they do! They shape a spell from the card you discard!! You pay the cost, commission their service, and they cast a spell for you. It's so damn cool!!! Would LOVE to see more spellshapers for iconic spells. Obviously they have to be careful, repeatable removal is rough to play against, but I would LOVE to see something like Taigam's Scheming - a card which is, normally, not great due to being card disadvantage, but when you make it repeatable, it can become super spicy!!! Or just like, idk, some underplayed pump spell. They're cool!!!
I always loved thinking of it as you (the planeswalker with your spells) together with a spellshaper staring down a giant Fireball or something. You frantically flip through your spellbook to see what you have access to, and desperately scream "I only have Giant Growth!!" And then the Stronghold Machinist says "Do it anyway, it's close enough!" You cast Growth, Shaper does their thing, and poof! Fireball is gone!
Noggles are just 4 blue/red creatures only found in the Eventide set from Shadowmoor. From memory they had a discard theme, but upon looking them up all 4 do something completely different, maybe putting them at extinction risk. They are donkeyheaded creatures that are best described by the flavour text of Noggle Ransacker: "Noggles live purely by what they can scavenge. There is not a single thing a noggle eats, wears, or uses that did not once belong to another." With only 4 showings and 2 flavour text mentions outside of that, I'm doubtful these strange beings will return. Their unique visage probably keeps them safe from a type rebranding if they do were to make an appearance.
idk why, its not directly represented on any homarid cards, but I always liked the idea of Homarid "caring about the tides" to be represented with "top card of deck matters". Like maybe they could have triggered abilities that care if the top card is an island (or maybe any land for gameplay purposes) because that means the tide coming in. It synergizes with blue scry and retains that feeling of waxing and waning power.
Love the video so far! Buuuut... Massive missed opportunity to have Kithkin Househusband's art be Marlamin from the D&D movie. He's literally the barbarian's halfling househusband! It just works
growing up with Cephalids in Judgement, Legions, Torment, and Odyssey (my main childhood sets) and then them disappearing completely basically is SO funny to me
Saving Homarids? Okay, but what about Camarids? The new Homarids need to synergize with their Camarid offspring, and we need more things that make Camarids.
The creature type I immediately thought of was ally. Which in zendikar started as etb and creature count matters tribal, but then after finally printing an ally commander with General Tazri, subsequent printings of her did not have that type despite still having mechanics that felt like they fit the bill of allies. With the end of the phyrexian story line, we had the rebel creature type, which made sense from a theming perspective, but felt like the perfect opportunity for allies to come back. Where it's once again groups of disparate people working together for the greater cause, which actually feels like the main flavor of allies. Not just the etb, but the feeling of "new different members joining the cause"
4:08 hell yeah! These are probably the 2 recent sets I’ve been most interested in, you and your partner have some great taste. Horror and cute creatures is going to make for a great combo whenever I can make a deck combining the two
One of the most effortlessly funny human beings I've had the pleasure of watching or being around. Even with no one to play off of, he's just brilliant lol
I sat through that entire Kavu section with my ADHD off, waiting for the line "Kavu, Kavu Kavu, can do Kavu. Kavu?" Your particular skills in articulation and word expression would have made that line wonderful, but instead, you just left me disappointed, lol. All that focus for nothing. P.S. I love your humor. It gets me every time.
I love your idea for kithkin! Them being a creature type that cares about blinking is a really unique theme. One thing i thought about when i saw the house husband is that it's flavour felt like they were waiting on a loved one to return home from an adventure. Im not sure how you would actually go about it but maybe you could include adventures as part of the theme of the kithkin. Specially the flavour of a community that welcomes home their adventurers with buffs and value. Great video!!
quick minor issue for the kithkin, creatures that were cast enter from the stack, not your hand. could replace "enters from anywhere other than your hand" to "enters from exile or is cast from exile"
@@technopoptart there’s no gun to my head, I can say what I want. I don’t believe in any of that stuff & I won’t be forced to go along with something I don’t agree with
Volo is my favorite commander deck, and I was heartbroken when I upgraded the deck recently that for synergy sakes, I had to include a duplicate creature type in Radaghast, who shares Wizard with Volo. I liked the deck building restriction of having 30+ unique creature types, and being smart about which creatures would be the representative of their type.
> "Hounds and Dogs are too similar creature types, so we're combining them. Also Viashino are Lizards, Naga are Snakes, and Cephalids are Octopuses. We don't like having so many creature types that are minimal or unsupported, as it makes the game confusing for new players!" > Foxes, Wolves, Wolverine > Demons, Devils, Imps > Has an entire set about Mice vs Rats > "Beast" vs Not "Beast" > Antelope (10 creature cards) > Lammasu (3 creature cards) > Llama (0 creature cards, 1 land) > MICE vs RATS (with hamsters included too) I'm pointing this out as someone who loves the variety of creature types we have and don't care if they go unsupported as "game pieces": the game world has texture BECAUSE there is so much granular detail put into these distinctions. To have that be stripped away from humanoid creatures is, frankly, fucking weird.
Dog was never a creature type separate from Hound. They went from 0 dogs, all hounds to all dogs, 0 hounds. They basically just changed the word they used for the creature type. This is different than the other errata mentioned, because it's 1 to 1; it's not a functional change. And as for the others, I think you misunderstand what these erratas are intended to do. They're not here to eliminate niche creature types. Niche can be fine, it's why we can get a singular llama or two weasels, or whatever else. It's why we have brushwaggs, that as spice said really aren't in danger. As long as that creature type actually *has* a niche. But I just don't think cephalid, or a hypothetical separate "aven" or "anoik" or whatever creature type does. You describe them as "octopus people" or "bird people" or "dog people". The same creature type can be used to describe lots of different things; Cat can describe normal house cats, lions, horned big cats (huntmaster liger), hooved leotau, and 6-eyed maaka even without getting into things like felidar or nekoru that have the addition of another creature type. So why not cat people as well? Why can't octopus be used to describe normal octopi, giant octopuses that inexplicably aren't krakens, and cephalids as well? (As for mice vs rat, ultimately it's a matter of vibes. And people call mice and rats separate things, while all those cats i described as well as cat people still get called "cat" which is why they have a unified creature type. You could have a rodent type if you want sure, throwing rats and hamsters and squirrels and beavers and capybara all together, but I feel like people think of them more as separate things.
I feel like ultimately it's the matter of tribes, for tribal (or kindred now I guess) strats. If there are enough creatures similar to already existing archetype that they'd make an impact, while not enough to really be a tribe of their own, it's better for them to get a more generic type so there are reasons to use them in more decks. Mice Vs Rats makes sense due to colors. Rats are overwhelmingly black, with some red and blue as a side. Mice are mostly white, with some red.
The new mystery booster introduced a potential concept for Kithkin as a Playtest card! "Thoughtweft" gives all other Kithkin keyword abilities if a Kithkin has that keyword. For example, if a Kithkin with thoughtweft also has vigilance, all other Kithkin gain vigilance. Does this applies to equipments or auras? We don't know, but it *should.*
@@Spice8Rack I mean, simplification of game rules is almost always a good thing. But classifying sentient beings as the animals they "evolved(?)" from has a really weird vibe to me
40:54 This kithkin...he's un-fucking-believable! (great video as always. personally I think it's interesting when there's one creature type that has different visuals and terms depending on the plane a person is on, but I totally understand all your arguments as well)
Honestly Wizards recently just made a really good solution to the "niche creature types" issue while also giving them support. The batch creature type system they made for Outlaws is honestly my favorite mechanic of the year because of the potential. Imagine a batch type that works with Snakes, Lamias, and Gorgons, or one that lumps the already existing Krakens, Leviathans, Octopi, and Serpents, but adds Crabs and Homarids for the funnies
Exactly. As you said they have already done things where they group types together in effects like in the octopus, kraken, leviathan, and serpent effect. So if they want to make Tribal more universal when it comes to similar creature cards, they should bundle types together. This helps tribal decks in the same way changing creature types does, but keeps those creature types around.
agreed i hope they do more! especially Canids (wolves+dogs+foxes+coyotes) and something that groups everything with an occupation/class style type like Soldier, Wizard, Rogue, etc.
Frogs don’t necessarily blink as much as they care about things leaving but not being in the graveyard. I love that most of their cards bounce things. Like a frog, they bounce and hop in and out of your hand and make your opponents do the same. Brilliant 10/10 I DEMAND more frogs so I can make a frog bouncy-castle EDH deck.
We need to save Loxodon before they go ex- oh We need to save Leonin before they go ex- oh We need to save Rhox before they go ex- oh We need to save Aven before they go ex- oh
The Outlaw mechanic where the interaction is with a bundle of creature types would be a good alternative to consolidation. Like have a "mollusc" interaction that hits cephalid, octopus, and squid
Ehh. Don't get me wrong, I like bundling, outlaws and similar groupings are a good idea but consolidation has its own advantages. Going forwards it means less stuff on future cards that you need to remember/reminder text that needs to be printed (which is a great given the increasing amount of text on magic cards over time. And on the other side of things, buffing older creature type synergy cards by making them apply to more cards makes deckbuilding more fun and interesting imo. It's a cool way to help breathe new life into old cards that otherwise wouldn't be supported as well. There's also a minor thing of if you wanted to make a bundle of multiple consolidations but that's pretty minor.
What excellent timing with the video upload! I promised to teach my GF to play magic, and this is fantastic background noise for deckbuilding. I'm putting together two 60 card singleton decks designed to completely mess up one another! They're built around guildmages! But they're really weak. I'm trying to teach rules, not pain.
My biggest gripe with this is that you now need to check the oracle version of cards just for the type line. Like WotC won't errata the Nephilim to be legendary because it's too much of an issue with changes to existing cards, but replacing tons of creature types is fine...
I readily await the sequel to this video in which we break down not only the mechanical identity of the ouphe but also Niall Silvain's critical part in that game design decision but also an understanding of his place in their society at large.
"Humans are gonna be around for a couple of sets i think." Posted the day after a set with 0 humans drops. Loooove it. Bloomburrow also brought us a white/blue creature type that cares about blinking: Birds! So kithkin only have "cares about class types" as a unique niche, and honestly, they're just halflings and should be converted.
Viashino and Cephalid where changed to line up with other animal-folks being same creature type as the animals they are based on, same why Leonin are cats. Really all it was.
2:00 - OCTOPUS IS ETYMOLOGICALLY DERIVED FROM GREEK SO ITS ALSO TECHNICALLY CORRECT FOR THEM TO BE REFERRED TO AS OCTOPODES
Oh for fucks sake how are there THREE ways to say the plural of those 8 armed bastards?
Octopodeez nuts
@@Spice8Rack four, if I recall. octopuses, octopi, octopodes, and just "octopus" (kind of like sheep and moose in that regard).
@@janTesika Octopuppies
@@Spice8Rack Really it's fucking silly that people use the Latinate pluralization instead of the Greek. We should probably just try to stick to Octopuses since Octopodes is never gonna happen.
the prospect of kithkin getting errata'd to halflings sent a shiver down my spine. this future cannot come to pass. Thank you for your service
I honestly thought that already happened, but ok.....
Contextually monstrous. That errata sounds like a villain origin story.
I'm the villain.
I'm not sure what it says about me or this channel that I saw a ~50 minute video and thought "oh nice, a short one!"
Thanks for the great work as always, Spice!
This was also my exact reaction
I nearly wept with relief. "ONLY AN HOUR?! YES!"
They’re just so in depth and their opinions are always the right one. It’s odd
Spice has a talent for choosing topics that are so obscure yet so relatable, that every time I see a new video I am baffeled for 20 seconds before I am enraptured for 3 watchthroughs.
It's a different person every time they post a video.
I actually have the Changeling keyword.
@@Spice8Rack I KNEW IT
@@Spice8Rack As a changeling you should recognize there are no obsolete creature types. You are all of them. Every time they print a new changeling, we get a new Pincher.
Genderfluid is old news. Creaturetypefluid is bussin fr
@@erisdiscordia5429 unfortunately this only applies because Changeling is a comparative taxonomy and only is able to add to the 'Pincher' type so long as there remains an original 'Pincher' to model after. I for one am hugely in favor of and respect the Homarid pinching the tip of my peanits, and so endeavor to embody both.
Uncle Istvan remembers banding. He's still trying to calculate the dmg done. . . any day now . . .
I made an Istavan "crazy old man in the woods" deck and its unironically one of my favorite. every card gets me to laugh and he is surprisingly powerful cause everyone forgets he cant be killed by damage!
Banding doesnt change damage. It changes blockers.
40 seconds in and "i cut my hair for me and not for you" is sending me into a tailspin about my own cowardice in self expression
To be is to be perceived, so look first inward and become something you're glad to see
@@Spice8Rack daym, i came to this video for the usual healthy mix of comedy and insight, i wasnt ready for this level of comment section philosophy. well played, my dear (how did you put it) no good leftist communist queer ❤
@@Spice8Rack Tbh its inspired me some. My hair has grown about as long as yours due to the crippling dep- just not getting around to cutting it for a while. I've had no idea what to do with it but it looks great on you and I have had a similar style in highschool so I may try it out once again.
t o t a l l y
Same energy as "i'm not my friend and you have no say in my body" from Brian David Gilbert on that one Unraveled episode.
I legit love that it took the time to do a video that was a bit more on the silly side, as much as I absolutely adored the deep lore analysis of Tarkir... Like, to do that every time would be so rough and unsustainable.
"They sent the WHO, to WHO'S HOUSE?" being instantly recognizable is so good 🤣🤣
I don’t know this one. Can you explain?
@donovans8904 the pinkertons to a leakers house
@@donovans8904a leaker who got the cards sent legally by accident
@@TSAdu Not just a leaker. A MtG content creator who received the cards from WotC themselves and was told to promote those cards.
@donovans8904
You got your answer, but I feel it's worth pointing out WoTC did an actual Men In Black conspiracy theorist-style raid on a dude who had essentially done nothing wrong. Like.....if this happened in a fictional story I'd call the writer a hack. But it actually happened. Just....what a time to be alive.
I like how every time Spice shows up it's a different flavor of vampire.
A different flavor of bisexual vampire
The combo of a side shave with that mustache is giving hot intergalactic space opera villain vibes
Finally, SOMEONE gets what I was going for!
@Spice8Rack you look like zorgs dad
reminds me of the planeswalker with metal shaping abilities from the war of the spark novel RIP planeswalker with metal shaping abilities
You're saying the vibe is hot or he is hot?
@@Spice8Rack Wait, how could someone not get it?
The "chandra's curtains match her drapes" to "in response i bolt myself" and "in response, table flip" is a masterclass in storytelling
Today, Cephalid becomes Octopus. Tomorrow, Human becomes Ape. Don't let them get away with this
Honestly, I'd respect that move much more than the viashino one.
The day after, dogs become wolves
Good I want to be Monkey
Return to monke
Dogs need to become Wolves.
It's been X years since 2005, science has marched on, why hasn't Magic!
naga actually wasn't changed for cultural sensitivity reasons, like rakshasa. it was changed for the same reason viashino was, that snake people should be snakes, and lizard people should be lizards
I agree.
If Leonin are cats, Aven are birds, and Loxodons are elephants, then Naga should be snakes.
I do actually have a justification for running blue in my kavu deck, outside of just the commander pumping out kavu. The deck is accompanied by 5 extra copies of kavu chameleon, so that when I kick a rite of replication, I can lay them down and say, "Kavu, kavu, kavu, kavu, kavu chameleon." It's not much, but it makes me happy.
I was really waiting for this joke during the video, thank you, random stranger on the internet.
This makes me unreasonably happy, and you are my hero
Best reason to run a card in a deck EVER! 😂 🖤
this is the best reason to make a deck
So glad to find someone else runing a Kavu deck. I'm a weirdo running a stompies gruul deck around Kavu, but it's so nice to see others using them for strange jokes.....
Though I may also have made the kavu chameleon joke before....
I like how you did the wording for Kithkin. Because of how the rules work, if a creature is blinked it becomes a new object. You could reference the card but I can't think of how that would be worded. My idea for it is something like: "When a creature you control enters the battlefield from exile" because that's more broad, allows for more strategies like a couple of Eldrazi that interact with exile and adventure, and is way less wordy, but it could also be something like "When a creature you control that shares a name with a creature that left the battlefield this turn enters the battlefield" which is the best way I can think of to phrase it.
The last part with the name should most likely contain "non-token creature" since tokens all have the same name it could cause some really easy to abuse mechanics depending on what the ability itself is. Basically you have a source to sacrifice for so you sac one token and make 5 more with the same name and get 5 triggers for the ability.
@@OnetastyJoe Yeah, but you could just do "from exile" at the end since tokens can't change zones which I like better now that I think about it because it is about as close to only referencing blinking as you can get
@@cleo9231 True thats pretty smooth too.
One of my favorite thing is that ever since unfinity, all changelings are officially child soldiers
And Cowards, to boot.
I'm sorry what?
@@MartianSantas Since changelings have all creature types, they also have the child and soldier creature types. The former being introduced in unfinity.
@@MartianSantas Well, like the video eluded, ever since unfinity, god bless unfinity, child is now a creature type,
Since changelings are all creature types, they are children. (Wee Champion is in fact commander legal)
For the longest time now, soldier is a common creature type, thus changelings are also soldiers.
Therefore, it is accurate to say that changelings are child soldiers (and a lot of other creature types too, some of the funnier ones being Gamer, Coward and Wall)
They are also Mutant Ninja Turtles 😅
I feel like spice is always doing his best to look like the morally ambiguous season 1 villain that turns into a recurring character from that show you watched 10 years ago
It or them, not him
“I cut my hair for me and not for you” has the same energy as Brian David Gilbert saying “I’m not your friend, and you have no say over what I do with my body”
I need a crossover of these two playing commander. Rhystic Studies can join too.
Exactly what I thought of as well. ❤
Also we need Spice and Rhystic on a MtG-centered episode of Um, Actually (where Brian David Gilbert is the fact-checker, that's the connection)
@@3ndlessL00p I need this in my life because of reasons.
@@3ndlessL00pI didn't realize I needed it, but I neeeed it!
I think the answer for Kithkin is probably a mechanical reimagining of what the Thoughtweft does for kithkin, and a look at other hive-minded beings like the slivers.
so my Idea is...
Thoughtweft - whenever a spell or ability targets [CARDNAME], it instead targets each creature that shares a creature type with [CARDNAME].
this way you can say... keep the Kithkin ability to support career types while also having an interlocking bond within themselves to have various on-board tricks, etbs, AND mass flicker if you want it?
The original Boros had a mechanic along this line (color instead of creature), it did not go over well due to the double-sided nature of it
@@KynElwynn Color is a lot more prominent than creature type though. I think @ClexYoshi has a really cool idea!
"And end of your turn I Doom Blade your entire board." :P
That could easily be "when an ability or spell you control..." to get around the issue of getting nuked by everything.
Don't worry - my uncle works at WotC of the Coast and he says that 2027's Thermal Vents of Iquatana set is bringing back Homarids in a big way. We're in a pinch now but the tide is turning.
One of my picks has to be the Berserker creature type, just an absolutely baffling existence. It feels like it wants to be errated to be warrior or similar but was just printed in bloomburrow. The only commonality they share is that they’re usually red and encourage a high power reckless strategy. Just a type with zero cohesion but inexplicably still existing, I love it, I want more berserkers
Do they still do Barbarians? Hmm, internet says yes for D&D, but the last one before that was in Coldsnap
Becoming one with the octopus-cephalid expression meaning "loss of cultural identity"
Kithkin are THE "white weenies" type. You get three cards which scale off the size of your mob, several ways to produce Kithkin tokens (as spells and on permanents), Brigid is there to make blocking your 1/1s hard(er) and several cards are small, cheap creatures that provide characteristically White utility (lifegain, damage prevention, blink, counters, flying...). For the Lorwyn return I want Kithkin to be the pure "go wide" strat AND I want them to receive batching with halflings (so that the inevitable Kithkin commanders would say "Kithkin and Halflings you control get +1/+1 for each Kithkin or Halfling you control).
What doesn’t grow, dies. And what dies grows the Tarmogoyf.
(Lhurgoyfs are my favorite mtg-specific creatures)
I'm glad that the new influx of Lhurgoyfs in MH3 means that the creature type will stick around (presumably) since imo they were on the chopping block to get errata'd to the catch-all of Horror, similar to how they talked about Beasts in the video
0:34 I have actively perished, this is the greatest thing that has ever happened to me, I'm so glad Mogg has found a good home, was amazing meeting you and this is the greatest thing I have ever and will ever achieve in my life (/j on that last part lol)
Spice, you are a frankly terrifying individual. Partly because I now know post-Amsterdam (I said hi outside the hotel sunday morning) how tall you are, but mostly because your videos are always like a university lecture being given on a rollercoaster.
The world needs individuals like you. Please keep being whatever this is. It's brilliant and necessary that material like this is produced.
And big up the patreon H.K. Bergdahl. Hälsa Karl-Bertil.
Spellshapers! Me! I remember them.. they were a thing when I started playing, and Greel, Mind Raker was my first fancy foil I ever got!
Also truly fabulous hair!
The bit about Kavu made me think about scarecrows, how they're colourless artifacts that care about coloured mana & identity, part of their origins as more of a draft-filler support than anything meant to be a proper creature type, but exploring it on its own in a similar vein as you did with Kavu would be very interesting, a faction of artifacts that want to be paired with something rather than being run as straight tribal on their own.
Maybe the scarecrow are mostly colorless that care about colored mana but have a few major bombs that require unusual amounts of colored mana across the five colors.
Like a scarecrow that requires 4 red and 4 green mana with haste and trample that deals it's power as damage whenever a scarecrow becomes the target of a card
Dear Spice,
I love all your work. Your writing is as evocative and charming as it is informative. You truly help me understand storytelling better!
Hey Spice! I don't know if you will read this, but meeting you in Amsterdam was such a delight! Thank you for being such a beautiful soul!
That's such a nice thing to say and I hope that you had a great rest of the con!
@@Spice8Rack I did! I managed to play games with a couple of youtubers and had an absolute blast!
@@Spice8Rack I absolutely second this! I loved that you took the time for some introductions with the people you met! Asking people's names seems small but it makes it so much more personal. Also thank you very much for the signed scroll thief stealing the communist manifesto
♥♥♥
Same
This is exactly how I feelt meeting them as well. 💕
Coming from the Shuffle up n Play series, it is insane how much more quippy you are on your own spice! 4 minutes in and I'm overloaded with quip! I LOVE IT!
Upset that Spice didn't use the third plural form of the word "octopus"
HOW ARE THERE THREE DIFFERENT WAYS??
@@Spice8Rack Octopuses, Octopi, and Octopodes. Thank you Merriam-Webster.
@@moxperidot1012 I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed
@@Spice8Rack Octopodes is the most proper, as it is actually from Greek, despite resembling a Latin 2nd Conjugation masculine known.
With the Homarid creature type, I could see making support sorceries like “Tsunami {X}{X}U put X tide counters on each of X creatures and/or lands.”
It's a crime this channel doesn't get more attention. The quality is absolutely insane.
R.I.P. Cephalids, love those crazy little guys.
(Also love the hair its very cool)
That's very lovely of you to say, and I wholehearedly agree
@@Spice8Rack Thanks for featuring my favorite card: Cephalid Constable.
The first card which made me build a deck around their mechanics.
Just finished the homarid section and that comment about the play honestly makes me kind of sad. The work you did then sounds so interesting, as great as your magic videos are it's a shame we've never gotten to see that other work. I hope you're still happy and fullfilled with what you do today, and if not I hope you can make projects like that again someday
Fun fact in the Magic Comprehensive Rules (CR) there is a ruling that verbosely lists out ever single creature type.
It's rule 206.3m. There is also an equivalent rule for all the other card types.
In a similar vein 206.3a is the verbose ruling for city in a bottle which lists every single card that is effected by the bottle.
Actually, it is rule 205.3m
I was expecting a deep-dive into the significance of these types within Magic's history. But what I got was something even better! Your proposed fixes were pretty good.
14:34 Not technically a homarid, but Monstrous War-Leech from Dominaria United is being ridden by a homarid in the art and also mills and cares about cards in graveyard! Nifty.
Unironically the creativity and theoretical potential explored in this video is the most conceptually excited I've ever been for magic in the whole time I've played the game. PRAYING some of these ideas get picked up one day
I like imagining that each spice8rack video where they change their appearance is them just in a new plane and this is there look for the set(video)
Spice, you look AMAZING. Very timely video that fulfills some curiosity. I was just sorting a bunch of old cards and saw homarids for the first time and was wondering why they don't make those still!
Honestly one of my favourite things about the Spellshapers is their type is quite literally what they do! They shape a spell from the card you discard!! You pay the cost, commission their service, and they cast a spell for you. It's so damn cool!!! Would LOVE to see more spellshapers for iconic spells. Obviously they have to be careful, repeatable removal is rough to play against, but I would LOVE to see something like Taigam's Scheming - a card which is, normally, not great due to being card disadvantage, but when you make it repeatable, it can become super spicy!!! Or just like, idk, some underplayed pump spell. They're cool!!!
That would be really cool for graveyard decks. You’d be able to pay 2 to put between 1 and 6 things into your graveyard that you might want there.
I always loved thinking of it as you (the planeswalker with your spells) together with a spellshaper staring down a giant Fireball or something. You frantically flip through your spellbook to see what you have access to, and desperately scream "I only have Giant Growth!!" And then the Stronghold Machinist says "Do it anyway, it's close enough!" You cast Growth, Shaper does their thing, and poof! Fireball is gone!
This is why I built every single one of the legendary Spellshapers as a commander. It's such a neat creature type.
14:56 - 14:59 *_"MI666, OPEN UP!!!"_* [Orgg in comically human sized police armor punches your door, & looks at you stupidly]
Noggles are just 4 blue/red creatures only found in the Eventide set from Shadowmoor. From memory they had a discard theme, but upon looking them up all 4 do something completely different, maybe putting them at extinction risk.
They are donkeyheaded creatures that are best described by the flavour text of Noggle Ransacker: "Noggles live purely by what they can scavenge. There is not a single thing a noggle eats, wears, or uses that did not once belong to another."
With only 4 showings and 2 flavour text mentions outside of that, I'm doubtful these strange beings will return. Their unique visage probably keeps them safe from a type rebranding if they do were to make an appearance.
I mean, donkey head is donkey enough for the viashino and cephalid conversions
Oh so Noggles are like Kender then? Oh god....
As a guy with a Volo deck made (at least in part) to show off as many obscure creature types as I can find in my bulk box, I salute this endeavour.
idk why, its not directly represented on any homarid cards, but I always liked the idea of Homarid "caring about the tides" to be represented with "top card of deck matters". Like maybe they could have triggered abilities that care if the top card is an island (or maybe any land for gameplay purposes) because that means the tide coming in. It synergizes with blue scry and retains that feeling of waxing and waning power.
Spellshapers mentioned!!! 🎉🎉🎉
(genuinely my all time favourite creature type)
Love the video so far! Buuuut...
Massive missed opportunity to have Kithkin Househusband's art be Marlamin from the D&D movie. He's literally the barbarian's halfling househusband! It just works
I enjoy your thought experiments, video lengths, and sense of humor. Never change spice.
growing up with Cephalids in Judgement, Legions, Torment, and Odyssey (my main childhood sets) and then them disappearing completely basically is SO funny to me
my introduction to magic only a year ago started with me getting the kamiz commander deck, so cephalids disappearing completely is also so funny to me
Great video as always. Love it.
Can’t wait to get a 2 hour video on the loveliness that is Bloomburrow…
Saving Homarids? Okay, but what about Camarids? The new Homarids need to synergize with their Camarid offspring, and we need more things that make Camarids.
The creature type I immediately thought of was ally. Which in zendikar started as etb and creature count matters tribal, but then after finally printing an ally commander with General Tazri, subsequent printings of her did not have that type despite still having mechanics that felt like they fit the bill of allies. With the end of the phyrexian story line, we had the rebel creature type, which made sense from a theming perspective, but felt like the perfect opportunity for allies to come back. Where it's once again groups of disparate people working together for the greater cause, which actually feels like the main flavor of allies. Not just the etb, but the feeling of "new different members joining the cause"
I love "exile matters" as a mechanical archetype and I badly want that to become a key part of white's identity
Farewell
Pull from Eternity is one of my favorite cards, if Kithkin could do something with that it'd kinda rule actually.
4:08 hell yeah! These are probably the 2 recent sets I’ve been most interested in, you and your partner have some great taste. Horror and cute creatures is going to make for a great combo whenever I can make a deck combining the two
OK Nadu Kavu was a great bit. Thanks for the video Spice, excellent as always!
One of the most effortlessly funny human beings I've had the pleasure of watching or being around. Even with no one to play off of, he's just brilliant lol
it says “I cut my hair for me and not for you” but we ALL get to enjoy its badass new look
The passion and effort you put into your work is why I love you so much. You're a brilliant Goblin and your content- slaps knee- Is just right
I sat through that entire Kavu section with my ADHD off, waiting for the line "Kavu, Kavu Kavu, can do Kavu. Kavu?" Your particular skills in articulation and word expression would have made that line wonderful, but instead, you just left me disappointed, lol. All that focus for nothing.
P.S. I love your humor. It gets me every time.
You may have talked about this elsewhere but I’m hearing a lot of Brother Ali backing tracks in your videos. I love it man!
I love your idea for kithkin! Them being a creature type that cares about blinking is a really unique theme. One thing i thought about when i saw the house husband is that it's flavour felt like they were waiting on a loved one to return home from an adventure. Im not sure how you would actually go about it but maybe you could include adventures as part of the theme of the kithkin. Specially the flavour of a community that welcomes home their adventurers with buffs and value. Great video!!
I like that spice8rack. Rambles on forever and doesn't afraid of anything.
A big, friendly enby salute to you, Spice!
You can't see it, but I'm saluting right back!
here 10 days later to say i love the new credits! thanks for synching up the names on screens with what you're reading.
quick minor issue for the kithkin, creatures that were cast enter from the stack, not your hand. could replace "enters from anywhere other than your hand" to "enters from exile or is cast from exile"
"when ----- enters, ------- unless it was cast from your hand or put into play from your hand"
Spice has broadened my horizons of knowledge. Thanks to him, I shall make an “everything” tribal deck but only using these creatures
"them"
@@technopoptart there’s no gun to my head, I can say what I want. I don’t believe in any of that stuff & I won’t be forced to go along with something I don’t agree with
Oh my god is (insert winter holiday), two spice videos in two months!?
Happy Shrove Tuesday!
Hogswatch
Eyyy Kithkin mentioned! Thank you Spicy Spice, for speaking at length about my favourite tribe.
2:00
Here I am definitely angry and not just being silly in the comments, because this Octopodes erasure cannot stand
That was an interesting video! Got me through roundabouts an hour and a half of my shift. Thank you for the hard work!!
Volo is my favorite commander deck, and I was heartbroken when I upgraded the deck recently that for synergy sakes, I had to include a duplicate creature type in Radaghast, who shares Wizard with Volo. I liked the deck building restriction of having 30+ unique creature types, and being smart about which creatures would be the representative of their type.
To be fair, Radaghast is legendary, so copying him wouldn't even do anything as the token copy gets legend ruled immediately.
Thank you for shouting out my beloved Zubera
> "Hounds and Dogs are too similar creature types, so we're combining them. Also Viashino are Lizards, Naga are Snakes, and Cephalids are Octopuses. We don't like having so many creature types that are minimal or unsupported, as it makes the game confusing for new players!"
> Foxes, Wolves, Wolverine
> Demons, Devils, Imps
> Has an entire set about Mice vs Rats
> "Beast" vs Not "Beast"
> Antelope (10 creature cards)
> Lammasu (3 creature cards)
> Llama (0 creature cards, 1 land)
> MICE vs RATS (with hamsters included too)
I'm pointing this out as someone who loves the variety of creature types we have and don't care if they go unsupported as "game pieces": the game world has texture BECAUSE there is so much granular detail put into these distinctions. To have that be stripped away from humanoid creatures is, frankly, fucking weird.
At least they batched Demons, Devils, and Imps, and they all do pretty different things from each other.
Dog was never a creature type separate from Hound. They went from 0 dogs, all hounds to all dogs, 0 hounds. They basically just changed the word they used for the creature type. This is different than the other errata mentioned, because it's 1 to 1; it's not a functional change.
And as for the others, I think you misunderstand what these erratas are intended to do. They're not here to eliminate niche creature types. Niche can be fine, it's why we can get a singular llama or two weasels, or whatever else. It's why we have brushwaggs, that as spice said really aren't in danger. As long as that creature type actually *has* a niche. But I just don't think cephalid, or a hypothetical separate "aven" or "anoik" or whatever creature type does. You describe them as "octopus people" or "bird people" or "dog people". The same creature type can be used to describe lots of different things; Cat can describe normal house cats, lions, horned big cats (huntmaster liger), hooved leotau, and 6-eyed maaka even without getting into things like felidar or nekoru that have the addition of another creature type. So why not cat people as well? Why can't octopus be used to describe normal octopi, giant octopuses that inexplicably aren't krakens, and cephalids as well?
(As for mice vs rat, ultimately it's a matter of vibes. And people call mice and rats separate things, while all those cats i described as well as cat people still get called "cat" which is why they have a unified creature type. You could have a rodent type if you want sure, throwing rats and hamsters and squirrels and beavers and capybara all together, but I feel like people think of them more as separate things.
Also worth noting that Capennan and Jundish Viashino, while reptilian, are respectively draconic and crocodilian.
I feel like ultimately it's the matter of tribes, for tribal (or kindred now I guess) strats.
If there are enough creatures similar to already existing archetype that they'd make an impact, while not enough to really be a tribe of their own, it's better for them to get a more generic type so there are reasons to use them in more decks.
Mice Vs Rats makes sense due to colors. Rats are overwhelmingly black, with some red and blue as a side.
Mice are mostly white, with some red.
Wolverines aren’t dogs, they’re mustelids (the group containing weasels, otters, and badgers).
The new mystery booster introduced a potential concept for Kithkin as a Playtest card! "Thoughtweft" gives all other Kithkin keyword abilities if a Kithkin has that keyword. For example, if a Kithkin with thoughtweft also has vigilance, all other Kithkin gain vigilance. Does this applies to equipments or auras? We don't know, but it *should.*
Oh my god the ad jumpscare
Cool Video. I liked the concept of trying to find common design space for lesser known creature types.
Errata all Humans into Apes, Wizards, and all will be forgiven🫵👁👁
A deeply wrong, but fundamentally correct "solution"
@@Spice8Rack I mean, simplification of game rules is almost always a good thing. But classifying sentient beings as the animals they "evolved(?)" from has a really weird vibe to me
@@shlabbiedoo22 humans never stopped being apes.
40:54 This kithkin...he's un-fucking-believable!
(great video as always. personally I think it's interesting when there's one creature type that has different visuals and terms depending on the plane a person is on, but I totally understand all your arguments as well)
Honestly Wizards recently just made a really good solution to the "niche creature types" issue while also giving them support. The batch creature type system they made for Outlaws is honestly my favorite mechanic of the year because of the potential. Imagine a batch type that works with Snakes, Lamias, and Gorgons, or one that lumps the already existing Krakens, Leviathans, Octopi, and Serpents, but adds Crabs and Homarids for the funnies
Exactly.
As you said they have already done things where they group types together in effects like in the octopus, kraken, leviathan, and serpent effect. So if they want to make Tribal more universal when it comes to similar creature cards, they should bundle types together.
This helps tribal decks in the same way changing creature types does, but keeps those creature types around.
agreed i hope they do more! especially Canids (wolves+dogs+foxes+coyotes) and something that groups everything with an occupation/class style type like Soldier, Wizard, Rogue, etc.
Some of the best written magic content you've made
I BUILT A QUEZA EDH DECK AND LESS THAN 1 YEAR LATER THEY BRUTALLY PACHED MY BEAUTIFUL TENTACLY GIRL
SAME!
I would absolutely love to build a 5-color domain deck stuffed with all sorts of Kavu. Sounds like a ton of fun
Up next, Spikes become Worms along with Licids, followed by Homarids and Camarids becoming Lobsters.
Ok, i never knew i needed a Spice8 Card Kitchen video, but now im hungry for more. As someone making theur own card game, im taking notes over here!!
You can take my Homarids out of my cold, dead hands, Rosewater!
Frogs don’t necessarily blink as much as they care about things leaving but not being in the graveyard. I love that most of their cards bounce things. Like a frog, they bounce and hop in and out of your hand and make your opponents do the same. Brilliant 10/10 I DEMAND more frogs so I can make a frog bouncy-castle EDH deck.
I am in fact a spicy person of the internet
I really really love all your videos my friend. You are a treasure to the community!
We need to save Loxodon before they go ex- oh
We need to save Leonin before they go ex- oh
We need to save Rhox before they go ex- oh
We need to save Aven before they go ex- oh
There are how many different, sometimes even mechanically unique, groups of Goblins in magic lore and they've always just been "Goblin" on the cards
@@mn6334 exactly my point; at a certain point additional granularity in creature types is more of a mechanical detriment than it is a flavor boon
A very normal look at tarkir is an amazing video and is worth the watch
The Outlaw mechanic where the interaction is with a bundle of creature types would be a good alternative to consolidation. Like have a "mollusc" interaction that hits cephalid, octopus, and squid
Ehh. Don't get me wrong, I like bundling, outlaws and similar groupings are a good idea but consolidation has its own advantages. Going forwards it means less stuff on future cards that you need to remember/reminder text that needs to be printed (which is a great given the increasing amount of text on magic cards over time. And on the other side of things, buffing older creature type synergy cards by making them apply to more cards makes deckbuilding more fun and interesting imo. It's a cool way to help breathe new life into old cards that otherwise wouldn't be supported as well.
There's also a minor thing of if you wanted to make a bundle of multiple consolidations but that's pretty minor.
@@loudenmalachy9067they are called batches not bundles.
What excellent timing with the video upload!
I promised to teach my GF to play magic, and this is fantastic background noise for deckbuilding.
I'm putting together two 60 card singleton decks designed to completely mess up one another! They're built around guildmages! But they're really weak. I'm trying to teach rules, not pain.
My biggest gripe with this is that you now need to check the oracle version of cards just for the type line.
Like WotC won't errata the Nephilim to be legendary because it's too much of an issue with changes to existing cards, but replacing tons of creature types is fine...
I readily await the sequel to this video in which we break down not only the mechanical identity of the ouphe but also Niall Silvain's critical part in that game design decision but also an understanding of his place in their society at large.
"Humans are gonna be around for a couple of sets i think."
Posted the day after a set with 0 humans drops. Loooove it.
Bloomburrow also brought us a white/blue creature type that cares about blinking: Birds! So kithkin only have "cares about class types" as a unique niche, and honestly, they're just halflings and should be converted.
Amazing, you really read the entire bee movie script at the end. Powerful
Viashino and Cephalid where changed to line up with other animal-folks being same creature type as the animals they are based on, same why Leonin are cats. Really all it was.
If I was offered a Futurama-esk ‘freeze yourself to go forward in time’, I’d consider it just so there could be more videos like this for me to watch.