Great video. I’ve had 823 for a while and just bought couple of 700R’s Iris pens, after having really good experience with 580. They are both very good, if I started with 700R, I’d probably not wanted the 823. I write reverse a lot and the 700’s work great! Thanks and looking forward to other videos. Subscribed today! By the way, Pilot has fantastic customer service. I’ve sent in 823 for service and they returned the pen in gift box with new bottle of ink.
Great review. Coincidentally, these two are the very (and only) pens I’ve had inked up for the past month. And after having almost finished the ink in both of them, I’d say your review is very representative of my experience. The TWSBI is a good writer, holds a ton of ink, and gets a lot of attention when filled up with brighter inks like Yama Budo. But when I switch to the 823, it’s on a whole new level. You really appreciate the build quality and attention to detail of the pen. The filler mechanism is very smooth and screws down more snugly. The body is very light and ergonomic. And the nib is second to none. It’s not glassy smooth (like the Lamy gold nibs or my Diplomat Aero imo) to the point where there’s no individual character to it, and at the same time the feedback is not as perceptible as the Sailor and Platinum nibs I’ve tried (and frankly didn’t fall in love with). The pen gets out of the way, letting me focus on writing, while ever so often reminding me of my good fortune for owning it.
Pilot fountain pens have incredibly dependable nibs. Just today I picked up my Pilot Pocket mini (A $5 pen) that I have not used in over a month and it wrote beautifully. And my Metropolitan just works--all the time, every time. I plan to get a Pilot Elite with an extra fine gold nib and for less than $200. Their value is just outstanding!
I never liked extra-fine nibs; but,I found out I didn't like them because I never wrote with a really good one. The extra-fine nib on the Pilot Elite/E95S is such a great writing experience. It's something not to be missed if you get the chance to try it. Totally concur about this pen being VERY high value. I have written with the Medium,Fine,and Extra-fine and love them all; but,the extra-fine is pretty special.
Hi Hemingway, the comparison between TWISBI and Pilot was very informative and elegantly presented by you. Thank you very much for sharing your art of presentation. Pilot 823 (amber) is on my list. I am grateful for your recent presentation on Kaweco Bronze. I bought it and delighted with its visual aesthetics and writing experience. I am sure that Pilot 823 will be much cherished pen in my collection.
Thank you very much! I am so glad you enjoyed this and gladded still that you like the Bronze. That is a great pen and I really enjoyed making that video. Thanks!
I really do love these comparison videos. They are so fun, but also, just so, so informative. You remind us that there are quite a few things that we consider when making our pen choices and each of us can weight the variables differently. Also, loved the writings... "Rome has never surrendered its ancient-ness..." If you know, you know! I don't have either of these pens and I don't know if I will add them to my collection. I have had such amazingly good experiences (luck perhaps?) with my steel nibs that at the moment, I don't have the interest in investing in pens with gold nibs. I have also shared that I am SO in love with the 18kt nibs on the Pilot VPs that I feel satisfied with them being my only Pilot pens, at least for now! We all know how us fountain pen geeks change our minds often and sometimes quickly 🙂
Thanks so much for the kind words and for watching! That is a funny thing about me. Every time I say “I would never…” I seem to then do precisely that! I contradict myself, very well, I contain multitudes!
It's injection molded plastic, so the cracking issue with the 823 is not surprising. To me, the plastic feels cheap compared to, say, a Sailor. I'll stick with my optical acrylic and Ultem vacs from Gravitas. They are stunning pens.
Well…, I love my TWSBI Vac 700 R and have never found it hard to write with. I found this video interesting and informative. I will definitely try and get an 823 so I can see the difference for myself. Thank you for sharing.
I don't have a Pilot Custom 823, or any pen at that price point, but I do have a TWSBI Vac700R Iris. I've had it for more than 2 years (got it shortly after release). I really enjoy the pen. It writes well and it's beautiful. I have kept all my pen purchases but one under $100 and there are two Benus among them - a Briolette and a Scepter. I enjoy them all. I've never written with a gold nib (well maybe a circa 1920 Waterman that I inherited). I know I'm probably missing a great experience, but I'm OK with that. I'm not sure I would be comfortable using a pen worth as much as the Custom 823. I'm happy for those of you who have one and enjoy it.
You’re good. I love your approach to keeping the price under $100. The TWSBI Vac 700R is an excellent pen. I might suggest a Pilot E95S just over $100 but can be had on sale. It has a wonderful and interesting gold nib. In case you are curious. You already have excellent taste though and excellent pens.
Even though the 823 is over the limit I've set for myself, I still enjoyed learning about it. Fountain pens are just fun. Great hobby. So many inks to choose from (too many?).@@HemingwayJones
I think we all knew the outcome of this particular comparison, which is not to say that the effort was at all wasted, the points invalid or the presentation unappreciated. I've only had my 823 for a few days and am already appreciating the sublime smoothness of the nib. The pen has many pluses but for me the nib is its outstanding feature. Although as HJ says, it tends to make you want to write faster, so carried away are you. While I like to support my local pen stores, the cost differential from importing directly from Japan, in my case to the UK, from an eBay seller, meant that I was able to save £70 on the current store price, and that included factoring in shipping and VAT. Thank you for another excellent video.
Thanks for the great review. I think I'm going to save up for the 823. I have only ever heard great things about it and it will make a great addition to my growing collection.
It was no contest, the 823 is as perfect as a fountain pen could be !! However, now that there is a version that has a cartridge-converter system (the 743), you can have this perfect pen with an easier cleaning system and change your inks more often !! Great video as always HJ !!
I adore my Pilot 743. I have it with a soft medium nib, which is just superb. It's soft, juicy, big and a pure joy to write with. And, as you already stated, it's way easier to clean. To be pedantic, it's the older version. It has been released in 1992, while the Pilot 823 has been released in 2000. 😀
@@HemingwayJones And there is even more. 🙂 There is a system in the model numbering. The first two digits are the release year after the company has been founded. And the third - if present - is the price in 10,000 yens. So, the 743 has been released in the 74th year after the company's foundation and (still) costs 30,000 yens. And my nib has "512" stamped on the side. That means that the nib has been produced in May 2012.
Very interesting comparison. I like them both. I have the TWSBI Diamond 580 ALR and love it. If confronted with the choice where you had to purchase either one of these pens, the Pilot 823 technically costs $261 if you forgo purchasing the TWSBI ($336 - $75 = $261). Silly math for sure, but that's one way to look at it. 😄
That’s actually a perfectly legit way to consider pen purchases, Kurt. I do it all the time, when prioritizing and deciding what to buy and what to forgo. Unless you decide ‘what the heck, I’ll buy both just because…’ 😀
@@kurtgeisinger2012 ..Ha, people calling it ‘creative accounting’ is a bit harsh, or it’s simply a backhanded compliment. You’re right, though. Financial logistics, indeed. You decide where your money goes or stays, right? 🙂
I was initially captivated by the vacuum fill and the purpose built inkwell TWSBI offers for the 700R. However, I found the gasket in the inkwell didn't stand up as well as I would have liked and leaving a little air in the reservoir seems to help with ink flow. My favorite fill systems remain vacuum and piston, but I don't use a special inkwell. They guzzle straight from the ink bottle.
I have been surprised at the influx of new companies into the vacuum filler market, Nahvalur, Asvine, Pineider and Gravitas pens all have done vacuum pens recently and people seem pretty positive on them. The vacuum fillers I wish more people would at least mention is the Sheaffer vacuum fillers from WWII. I have two that Paper Wants a Pen restored and they are just amazing.
Great video as always! I'm glad I finally got around to watch it. I would and probably could never afford a rather expensive fountain pen like the pilot for example, but I am still impressed by the craftsmanship that goes into them and you are able to describe it perfectly. I recently got what one would call a frail fountain pen from America in the mail, a Parker from the late 1920s and am loving it so far! Anyways, thanks again for these videos, you really run the whole fountain pen content creation on youtube, in my opinion 👍
Nice review, and I fully agree with your result. Both pens are excellent and among my favourite ones but the Pilot 823 has clearly the edge, especially with its nib that I really love. I was just a little surprised with the distinction you made that Pilot is not fully transparent (or demonstrator): I've got two of them (the only specific type of pen that I've got two specimen of in my rather small collection) and one is the clear demonstrator (the other one is Amber, only partially transparent).
Thanks so much for watching. I’d have to go back and watch it again, but I may have been referring to how the TWSBI is clear and the Pilot is Amber; translucent and not quite transparent. I rather wish the demonstrator Japanese version was readily available in the US. Al the best and thanks for watching!
@@HemingwayJones Oh I see, I didn't know the transparent version wasn't available in the US. I've bought mine on the German branch of Amazon, both of them-clear and Amber, clear first-actually. Greetings from Prague, Czechia.
@@HemingwayJones Well, it's just like the Amber one, only transparent. And yes, I love it, it's one of my EDC pens which I carry in a nice two-pen case, and it comes out especially when I am writing something longer (for short quick notes I usually carry another excellent Pilot, Elite, in my chest pocket).
The results certainly match my experience! I have both -- 823 first, Vac 700R came along much later. I added the Vac 700 as a "low worry" pen for travel etc even if $70 is not nothing, it's less painful than 823 cost. As many know, the price difference is less than it appears once you factor in gold nib vs. steel. Many pens that offer the option of steel vs gold have an upcharge of $150 or so for the gold. Finally, if you're willing to gamble on a non-US retailer (i.e., direct from Japan) that 823 can be had well under $300.
Had an eye on Pilot 823. At last I bought it a month ago. Fantastic one. Got a Fine nib. Enjoy every bit of it. Do you disassemble for an ink change or use only flushing it repeatedly?
I would strongly recommend against disassembling the pen. And if you’re happy to sticking to just one ink for the pen, then it’s even better easier maintenance.
Good one posing your wife as FLAMING JUNE by Frederick Leighton. Well done! Did a double take since it is seen for such a short time. An Easter egg? Didn’t see this one till today. Still chuckling. Good pen comparison as well, of course.
Thank you for this review! I did buy the TWSBI and returned it…too bulky for me…I definitly will save my money for the Pilot 823! The shape of this pen teminds me so much a pen I had in the past, the vintage « Rapidograph Koh-I-Noor » drafting pen!
im loving your pilot custom comparisons! have you ever compared it to a vintage pen? it would be an interesting video. thanks for posting! i really enjoyed your thoughts on the pens
Wow, your most enthusiastic recommendation of the Custom so far in my video catch-up…very happy I already ordered it 😂! I feel these 2 models are apples and oranges, really. One is your banker’s pen and one is your hair stylist’s. Elegant and formal vs. flamboyant and playful. I’d say, maybe we should get both! I do consider, as well, into which pen I’d put fuchsia ink! I do like the idea of the TWSBI (with its vac fill) for travel but now I’ve got the Kaweko Sport in brass for that. Do you tend to take cartridges or a bottle of ink when you use the Sport for travel? Thanks again!
I have owned both pens. I still have my Pilot Custom 823. The Vac 700 has some good features including a specialized inkwell for filling it. I had two objections: first, it was uncomfortable with that bulge above the section, and second mine was a very dry writer.
Very good points! Mine isn’t dry. It may have to do with the custom grind nib. Hmmm. The specialized inkwell sounds fun. I wish I had the Visconti one. Thanks for watching and stay well. Jason - Inventor of the Dalmatian Sock.
Have - and love - both these pens but in clear and amber. I think the biggest thing in favour of the Twsbi is how easy it is to take apart and clean. That said, I have to agree with your conclusion - 823 is just so good to write with.
Thanks. Neither was on my radar, but it was interesting hearing your views. Pilot 823 definitely out of my price range, anyway, so I'll be able to sleep soundly. tonight. By the way, I really don't like large capacity ink users. Have too many samples and bottles that I want to try. Thanks again.
The Pilot 823, is the best pen I've ever written with, (I've discontinued my Fine Nib, but the medium is a mainstay) and their customer service is on point, but the affluent attitude around their pens (i.e, you do anything but write with this pen, warranty nulled !) was a drawback. Twsbi, on the other hand, has that blue-collar attitude of, "Here's some grease and a wrench, go nuts!" And their customer service is just as good as Pilot. And for a steel nib, they write fantastic. Both are amazing in my eyes, but the Pilot 823s are my book tour pens, and the Vacs are my book writing workhorses.
The Pilot 823 is a grail pen for sure. I need a medium nib for my next gift from the hubby. Over a few years I've collected 3 of them but I want a medium now.
I don’t have a 700R, but I do love my two TWSBI ECOs. BUT, my 823 is hands-down the best writing experience of all my pens. My personal preferences have led me to wanting that Pilot nib on cartridge/converter with flat ends … basically a Sailor Professional Gear with a Pilot Custom 823 nib! LOL. Another great video.
When I was determining which vacuum-filler to get a few years ago, I'd found that the TWSBI Vac 700r are easily interchangeable. The spare nibs won't have the Iris design if that's the color model one owns. If the current models can still easily nib swap and TWSBI still sells spare nibs , I would give the TWSBI a point for nib swappability(yes, I just made up a word haha), whereas Pilot doesn't sell spare nibs and it'll void warranty if we do so. I ultimately saved up for the Pilot Custom 823. My line of thinking that since I've found the price within reach, I thought it was best tk save up for what's consider 'the best' when it comes to vacuum-fillers. I'm also a fan and definitely biased towards Pilot when it comes to their steel nibs and their multi-pens, so that was the route I went. Very glad I did. Got my model in the Amber color with a bold nib. I have it filled with Taccia "Nakamurasaki" from their Ukiyo-e line. It's just a lovely pen with that puts down a thick line lovely warm dark purple ink smoothly. Thanks for posting. There were alot of good points mentioned, so the video will be a useful guide for the future generation. Best to you!
Thanks so much for the kind words! The ability to field strip a TWSBI is a huge benefit. I am so glad you enjoy the 823. It is such a nice pen. All the best and stop by again soon.
Hello HJ. Another insightful video. I must admit that the Japanese pens don't excite me. I like my pens, watches and cars to be of a German variety. Perhaps I am doing myself an injustice by not looking to the far east but like I told you before, I only have 10 fountain pens and 7 come from Germany. I believe that I would drive myself nuts if I had the collection that you and your viewers have. I switch out daily the pen and ink in my journal, that way I get to enjoy my entire collection. Just my simple opinion. Great show. I'm sure that it will inspire many viewers.
Thank you, My Friend! I appreciate you watching just to learn about a pen you may never buy. a 10 pen collection is perfect. I have too many, but it goes with this job. I am building a pen library! The worst thing for me is that almost all of them are inked always! It’s a problem. But then I am always filming something or another. Thanks for being here!
Gee! What a shocker Hemingway. A $335 Japanese Classic pen by Pilot beats out a $60 Taiwanese newcomer to the fountain pen market. I am totally astounded with the results. Have a great day. Keep up the great work.
Well, no, I think it's a solid question. Pilot and Vacs may be a question of choice, dictated by writing paper or occasion. As for my new, Pilot 823? My wife is jealous of it.
Sadly, I don’t have a 743 and I haven’t tried it, so I cannot be sure. I generally prefer the rarer fill system. So right now, if I had to choose for the first time between them, I would break 823. (I am so curious about the 743 though). Thanks so much for watching!
Both pens are just the same, save only the filling system. They even cost the same. I don’t own the 743, but on balance, I think I’d pick the 743. Not least because it offers far more nib size options, too.
I have both an amber-colored 823 and a Smoke 823. These are beautiful and classic but not a heap of fun as colors go. Never tried the 743;but,believe I am over the vacuum filling system. Cartridge/Converters in general have won me over;easier to clean and I find I don't really need/want a HUGE volume of ink in my pens. The PIlot cartridges are durable, refillable, and awesome. I'd truly love to have a PC 743 in the Verdigris color; but,being heavily invested in the 823 already,cannot justify the purchase.
@@McAmeron089III I’ve been torn between choosing one but it seems like I might take my chance with the 743. I concur with your cartridge /converter comment.
One thing that definitely detracts from the 823 is that if you disassemble it you are invalidating its warranty and risking cracks. Something that makes cleaning and maintaining the seals a huge issue. You also cannot ink it with an eye dropper for the same reason, meaning bottles that are running low are going to be an issue.
I love the 700r, but the Custom 823 is just sublime. The Custom 823 would be a finalist for "I can only have one fountain pen". I would love to see some paper reviews Hemingway. Your videography is so good, what paper is that at the 8:54 mark?
Thank you so much! Compliments on my videography make me happy. Thank you! I am glad you enjoyed this. That paper is from Clairefontaine. J Herbin was kind enough to send it. Thanks!
The clip on the 823 mirrors the clip that Pilot has on the Namiki Emperor. It seems to be their design language like the Italian pens with the wheel in the clip.
Very good point. They are not wholly consistent with that though. Pilot clip shapes are all over the place. All good though. Lovely pens. Hope all is well in your world.
Thanks for this comparison. I totally agree with you - the Pilot is the winner. I don't like the design of the Vac700 - this "flare" in the middle is not appealing to me. My favourite TWSBI is the Diamond580AL-R. It is a well-designed pen with the perfect ink capacity. And it is fun to combine inks which are contrasting to the pen (e.g. currently I have Rohrer&Klingner "Helianthus" in my "Prussian Blue" 580 - it makes me happy to look at the yellow ink floating in the clear barrel besides the blueish parts of the pen). And thank you for reminding me that I should read "A Year in Provence" again... 😁
Don't think about that for sure, one less time on restaurant visits and buy the Pilot 823. At least I have both and they both have their qualities and charms.
I think a really important consideration is for those seeking entrance into the fountain pen experience and what they should buy to find out if they want to make it a part of their lives. An off-the-shelf, clamshell-packed fountain pen won't answer that question. They're not a real representation of what a fountain pen can be for a person. But $300+ is a big first investment. So, the real question is what is the best entry-level fountain pen that can answer the question, "Is this world for me?" And what does it cost to answer that question. I have a Parker Sonnet, that my father gave me nearly 30 years ago. I know the answer to that question. But that's still a fairly expensive pen. Would I tell a student to spend that much to scratch an itch? After hearing this review, I might just tell him to by the TWSBI Vac 700R. But are there other options for that purpose?
@6:00 The Cap -- TWSBIs break where the cap meets cap-ring, I think Pilot gets the point. Two of my TWSBIs broke at the cap-band, none of my Pilot pens ever have. Reddit posts substantiate this with a larger sample-size.
Nothing more valuable than personal experience. I’ve never had a TWSBI crack but I’ve heard of it. Same with the barrels of 823s. I wonder sometimes if I should comment on this. As in , “Some say…” I try to go by personal experience. All the best.
I love my fine point. Crisp yet consistently smooth. I’ve read that there’s a big jump from the Pilot fine (which is more fine than my German fine points) to the Pilot medium. I like my 823 fine so much I got another fine point on my 734.
You atleast get Titanium in the TWISBI for the body. Not sure about the nib but since the iridescent color isn't coming off at the tip of the nib where it contacts the paper i will say that the iridescent portion or atleast the contact point is also made of titanium or coated with it.
Just know you're going to be paying shipping on replacement caps for the TWSBI, which over time is going to add to the price. Also, if it's not the plain clear version, depending on availability, you may not get the correct cap.
I'm so surprised that you give the point to the TWSBI for having the cap band on the edge instead of up a bit like on the Pilot, when Vac700 caps are famous for breaking every time you look at them cross-eyed. I have three Vac700s and all together I think I've been through six or seven caps. A friend on mine has two, both currently with broken caps and he just sent me a photo of a friend of his with a lineup of Vac700s with broken caps. In spite of all this, I'm still tempted to get the Iris version! The problem is, one they stop making that model I won't be able to get replacement caps, as happened with both my blue and smoke Vac700 which now sport unmatching clear caps.
@@HemingwayJones it was an irritation only until this last time I needed them replaced and they no longer have caps in stock for the discontinued versions. I just got the new caps in a week or so ago so I'm a bit salty about it still.
I would imagine that Chinese pens are not a popular topic around here but... If it weren't for the Wing Sung 699 I wouldn't be saving for a Pilot Custom 823. That's probably what you should buy if you are considering the 823. No, you won't get the same writing experience. It's a $30 pen. At the same time, it's not bad. The nib is soft and very comfortable to write with. And, since it is basically a copy you will have a good idea of how it will feel in your hand.
I have no issue with pens made anywhere in the world. I celebrate all of them. Thank you for the wonderful information! This kind of comment really adds to this channel!
I like them both, for different reasons. I don't mind the flair, it's a part of the VAC filling and the comparably thincker walls. I think the 823 to get is the demonstrator, currently unavailable in the US (but available, I believe, in Japan.). BTW: The difference in price of Pilot Japan and Pilot US is absurd, though I do not know if this is a Pilot issue, or a US distributor issue.
That is a strategy that a lot of people use to get them for less. There is a Pilot N America, so I am assuming they are the determinant of the price point. Thanks for checking in and for watching!
I also have both - the affordability of the Vac700 is nice, but the writing experience of the Pilot 823 is sublime. People love pens for many different reasons, but I'm still confident to say that most buyers would enjoy their writing so much more with the 823. It would be like comparing beef jerky to a Medium-Rare Ribeye with a Chateau Margaux Cabernet Sauvignon. I would happily eat both, but only one of the two is going to make me praise God uncontrollably while consuming it. ;)
Interesting review, but you left out a big factor in my opinion. I have tried the pilot and find it to be merely ok. However, the pilot will never find it's way into my collection because I hate the gold/brown/black aesthetic it comes in and it doesn't come in any other options. At such a high price point, I would have to look at it and love it, and I don't. I think it is terribly ugly. I especially disagree about the look of the ball on the clip - yuck! I have the twisbi and it's lovely... one of my favorite all-around pens to look at as well as to write with. As you mentioned... Twisbi is a third of the cost, making this a highly unfair comparison. The pilot would be better compared to something like a Leonardo, but it simply doesn't hold a candle to pens at that level, either aesthetically or in the writing experience.
Thanks so much for watching! This channel compares all sorts of pens from disparate price points and on many different factors. So, it’s something you’ll see and it inspires excellent thoughts and comments; like this one. Thank you! I disagree on the globe of metal. I think it’s rad and sort of mid-C, but that’s a matter of taste and I appreciate yours. There is a Japanese demonstrator version of the 823 that can be had. Alas, more easily in Japan. Thanks for the great comment and for watching.
Countless times I read if you got the 823 you wouldn't need any other pen and so many fountain pen enthusiasts can't be wrong. So honestly I wouldn't have been interested in such a comparison if it weren't for you and your unique approach describing pens. Thank you!
There is no one perfect fountain pen. The 912 is more flexible, cheaper, easier to obtain and maintain, than the 823 . The 823 also isn't available in a stub, and nib options are very limited. You can of course have a nibmeister work on the nib, but then it's not exactly that Pilot nib any more.
Pilot all the way. I used to really really want an 823 but have since got a narwhal that is a vac filler ( I personally like Narwhal more than TWSBI) and I have a Visconti Voyager 30 with a vac filler and 14K gold nib. I don't know that I really NEED one anymore. Might still get one for the collection later on though.
I would jump at an 823, other than the brown/gold just isn't my thing. If perhaps I was in a professional office setting then maybe I'd consider it. I have no pens with gold trim, other than some vintage pens I've had since I was a kid (no I'm not that old that I used fountain pens at school 🤣). Further, I assume a brown pen is very restrictive in terms of the colour of the ink that can be used in it. Black for sure, but what other high use colour would suit it? I'd not want to fill it with an 'occasional' ink. Fine comparison HJ, albeit I've never considered the TWSBI as an 823 competitor. Cheers ✒️✒️✒️
@@HemingwayJones I don't especially write with green either, but like red, I find I always use it, mostly for diary work or student assessment tasks. I currently have a Lamy Al in green inked with green (Taccia Lady Emerald - part of the 'guitar' range!) Thanks for your replies and regular engagement. Very 😎
Nice! Sounds like “The Secret History.” Sadly, I can only read it in English, but I love the book. I’ve read it twice. Fascinating getting first hand accounts of the ancient world.
@@HemingwayJones Oh, it is not like I can read it in classical Greek either, might have painstakingly translated half of a paragraph about the persian wars once, but that is about it for my relationship with Herodotes! I wasn't a very good student, but I liked mythology and history enough to take some classics as elective. Teacher was very charismatic too, that kept the class entertaining. Got a few bonus points towards my high school diploma, ("baccalauréat") got me enough of a mark ot have it "with honors" 🤣
Saving up to buy the Pilot Custom Urushi first would make buying pretty much all the rest of the pens in Pilot’s Custom line, including the 823 (but excluding the 845), pretty pointless, in my opinion.
I have both a Pilot Custom Urushi and a Custom 823 and there's really no comparison as far as nibs go. The Custom Urushi writes effortlessly, the ink flow is oh so juicy, and the pen just floats over the paper with the lightest touch. I don't notice or even think about bounce or flex with the nib. The 823 is a very different experience with the FA nib and I did get a custom ebonite feed from flexible nib factory. I have it as more of a drawing pen than writing pen. Biggest problem with the 823 is deciding which ink to use in it. I also have a Pilot 912 with FA and ebonite feed also for drawing. It's a better pen for that since staining the converter hidden in a black pen with Platinum Carbon Black ink isn't a big deal, and the #10 nib is slightly softer for flexing than the 823's #15.
@@RobRutherford ..I have the vermillion PC Urushi (M), the 845 Urushi (B), the Justus 95 (FM), the PCH 912 (Waverley), and the Pilot Silvern Tsumugi (M) - all of which I prefer to the 823.
I prefer the TWSBI Vac700R because I prefer using a broad European nib for a pen with a vacuum filler. I don't care for Japanese nibs, since they are so fine that a large ink supply is not convenient to me. I also don't care for the feedback of Japanese nibs, and don't own any Japanese pens. I also like the demonstrator of the TWSBI, since it looks like whatever ink is in it. For an expensive pen, I prefer the Pelikan M400, despite it not being a vacuum filler.
I’d say most Japanese broad nibs, though, write a line-width on par with Western broads, barring maybe only Pelikan and Montblanc broad nibs. And I have many Japanese broad nibs across Pilot, Platinum and Sailor pens. TWSBI’s generic Jowo steel nibs are some of the most boring, forgettable nibs around. I’ve long stopped buying pens with standard Jowo nibs. Bock is much better.
Isnt' vacuum fillers hard to clean and that is why they have large capacity? I think it's a point to the Vac700r. also you could get 5 base color vac700r with 5 different nib sizes with 5 different colors for 1 Pilot. I think that is a better writing experience.
300 is still a lot of money I was fortunate to get it new in the box for $200. I honestly would have passed for over $300. Although, I do love it. I would strongly recommend the Vac for budget watchers and if they can get the 823 for $250 to get it (you might have to find it used or search Japanese sites but it can be sone) ...
@HemingwayJones sorry I don't know why it cut off I love using sendico to buy Japanese only products you get them really cheap. You just really need to know what you are looking for. This before the price change so I am not sure if that Japanese prices went up.
I used to always post my pens, then I got an Opus 88 Demonstrator and learned a couple of things: Turns to remove the cap can be a big deal, 4 turns to open sucks, 3/4 for my FC E-Motion is great. Posting isn't as big deal as I thought it was and now I don't tend to post. Though I do think it would be amusing to be aboard and airplane writing with a posted, vermillion Namiki Emperor. Sadly I still don't have one of those. As I don't wear jackets or shirts with pockets I like clipless pens so that isn't a consideration. I even unscrewed the finial and removed the clip on the Opus 88; the roll stop on the Kilk NovoBaroque is a great functional design, (and the pen writes like a dream). That said my favorite clip is the levered, spring loaded clip on the FC E-motion, it borders on fidget toy even.
The twsbi aesthetics and large name script and unmatched cap logo are a little jarring. Should be reworked for the expensive vac 700 r. The 823 despite being ,ore expensive than the twsbi is I think the best value premium gold nib pen.
I’m no fan of TWSBI pens, mainly for the nibs. The PC 823 is a fantastic pen, all round. The 823’s price has gone up by nearly $50 since a few months ago. It is still very worth the money for its quality, feel, reliability and writing experience. On principle, and from my own experience, I just think that, generally, it is very worth waiting and saving for pricey pens of proven excellence than buy a handful or more of cheaper, but nevertheless popular pens. In this particular face-off between these two pens, it is a no-brainer to me. I’d recommend saving to buy the PC 823, every time. And well, the Twsbi Vac-700r is just not ‘good enough’ (to me). 🙂
My TWSBI Vac700R has cracks on the threads of the body and ink leaks out on my fingers when holding it. I am not sure if this is a common problem, but it is unusable. And the cap cracked and I had to pay for a replacement. That's two problems on my $70 pen, very disappointed :/
That is a HUGE problem. I have heard similar from TWSBI. I have not experienced this myself… yet. When I do, I will sound the alarm! Thanks so much for the great comment.
It’s all about whether you should scratch the itch with the TWSBI or save for the 823. I think the TWSBI would have done better if it were more streamlined. Personally, I think any comparison is fair. I may compare an Eco to a MB 149 next. The Eco may win. All pens are equal in my eyes. Thanks so much for watching and for the comment. Stop by again soon
You clearly compare apples and oranges. The only thing in common is the vacuum filling system. And even in this category you rate the Pilot higher when the TWSBI clearly has the more refined thought through vac filling system. One can tell right from the beginning which of these two fountain pens will be the champion. Comparisons like these don’t make any sense imo.
One can compare anything. These are especially valid since many buy the TWSBI before the 823. I completely disagree that the TWSBI has a better fill system. Maybe next time it will be a Kakuno v Urushi. Thanks so much for watching and for the comment.
A small piece of the feed got sucked up into the barrel of my Smoke 823 during cleaning/flushing(I don't disassemble it). Sent it back to Pilot. They fixed and had it back to me fairly quickly;no charge. It's just one more thing that CAN happen with a vac-filler. I sorta wish my 823s were 743s. The Verdigris color option on the 743 calls to me.@@sajjadhusain4146
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Great video. I’ve had 823 for a while and just bought couple of 700R’s Iris pens, after having really good experience with 580. They are both very good, if I started with 700R, I’d probably not wanted the 823. I write reverse a lot and the 700’s work great! Thanks and looking forward to other videos. Subscribed today!
By the way, Pilot has fantastic customer service. I’ve sent in 823 for service and they returned the pen in gift box with new bottle of ink.
Great review. Coincidentally, these two are the very (and only) pens I’ve had inked up for the past month. And after having almost finished the ink in both of them, I’d say your review is very representative of my experience. The TWSBI is a good writer, holds a ton of ink, and gets a lot of attention when filled up with brighter inks like Yama Budo. But when I switch to the 823, it’s on a whole new level. You really appreciate the build quality and attention to detail of the pen. The filler mechanism is very smooth and screws down more snugly. The body is very light and ergonomic. And the nib is second to none. It’s not glassy smooth (like the Lamy gold nibs or my Diplomat Aero imo) to the point where there’s no individual character to it, and at the same time the feedback is not as perceptible as the Sailor and Platinum nibs I’ve tried (and frankly didn’t fall in love with). The pen gets out of the way, letting me focus on writing, while ever so often reminding me of my good fortune for owning it.
Very well put. Excellent descriptions. Thanks so much for watching.
Lovely, thanks. Is there another pen in your collection that you find approaches the enjoyment you get from the 823?
Pilot fountain pens have incredibly dependable nibs. Just today I picked up my Pilot Pocket mini (A $5 pen) that I have not used in over a month and it wrote beautifully. And my Metropolitan just works--all the time, every time. I plan to get a Pilot Elite with an extra fine gold nib and for less than $200. Their value is just outstanding!
I never liked extra-fine nibs; but,I found out I didn't like them because I never wrote with a really good one. The extra-fine nib on the Pilot Elite/E95S is such a great writing experience. It's something not to be missed if you get the chance to try it. Totally concur about this pen being VERY high value. I have written with the Medium,Fine,and Extra-fine and love them all; but,the extra-fine is pretty special.
I agree completely!
Hi Hemingway, the comparison between TWISBI and Pilot was very informative and elegantly presented by you. Thank you very much for sharing your art of presentation. Pilot 823 (amber) is on my list. I am grateful for your recent presentation on Kaweco Bronze. I bought it and delighted with its visual aesthetics and writing experience. I am sure that Pilot 823 will be much cherished pen in my collection.
Thank you very much! I am so glad you enjoyed this and gladded still that you like the Bronze. That is a great pen and I really enjoyed making that video. Thanks!
I really do love these comparison videos. They are so fun, but also, just so, so informative. You remind us that there are quite a few things that we consider when making our pen choices and each of us can weight the variables differently. Also, loved the writings... "Rome has never surrendered its ancient-ness..." If you know, you know!
I don't have either of these pens and I don't know if I will add them to my collection. I have had such amazingly good experiences (luck perhaps?) with my steel nibs that at the moment, I don't have the interest in investing in pens with gold nibs. I have also shared that I am SO in love with the 18kt nibs on the Pilot VPs that I feel satisfied with them being my only Pilot pens, at least for now! We all know how us fountain pen geeks change our minds often and sometimes quickly 🙂
Thanks so much for the kind words and for watching! That is a funny thing about me. Every time I say “I would never…” I seem to then do precisely that! I contradict myself, very well, I contain multitudes!
My 823's barrel cracked after 3～4 years, even though i mostly used it at home, and carried it in a leather case when i went out.
That is horrible. So sorry.
It's injection molded plastic, so the cracking issue with the 823 is not surprising. To me, the plastic feels cheap compared to, say, a Sailor.
I'll stick with my optical acrylic and Ultem vacs from Gravitas. They are stunning pens.
What a lovely comparison between the two great pens sir ...
❤
Thank you!
Well…, I love my TWSBI Vac 700 R and have never found it hard to write with. I found this video interesting and informative. I will definitely try and get an 823 so I can see the difference for myself. Thank you for sharing.
John My Man! Thanks so much. I appreciate your thoughts and you watching. You are the best.
I don't have a Pilot Custom 823, or any pen at that price point, but I do have a TWSBI Vac700R Iris. I've had it for more than 2 years (got it shortly after release). I really enjoy the pen. It writes well and it's beautiful. I have kept all my pen purchases but one under $100 and there are two Benus among them - a Briolette and a Scepter. I enjoy them all. I've never written with a gold nib (well maybe a circa 1920 Waterman that I inherited). I know I'm probably missing a great experience, but I'm OK with that. I'm not sure I would be comfortable using a pen worth as much as the Custom 823. I'm happy for those of you who have one and enjoy it.
You’re good. I love your approach to keeping the price under $100. The TWSBI Vac 700R is an excellent pen. I might suggest a Pilot E95S just over $100 but can be had on sale. It has a wonderful and interesting gold nib. In case you are curious. You already have excellent taste though and excellent pens.
Even though the 823 is over the limit I've set for myself, I still enjoyed learning about it. Fountain pens are just fun. Great hobby. So many inks to choose from (too many?).@@HemingwayJones
Great comparison, definitely useful and informative. I have both, and you are spot on with your points!
Thanks very much! I am glad that you enjoyed it.
I think we all knew the outcome of this particular comparison, which is not to say that the effort was at all wasted, the points invalid or the presentation unappreciated. I've only had my 823 for a few days and am already appreciating the sublime smoothness of the nib. The pen has many pluses but for me the nib is its outstanding feature. Although as HJ says, it tends to make you want to write faster, so carried away are you. While I like to support my local pen stores, the cost differential from importing directly from Japan, in my case to the UK, from an eBay seller, meant that I was able to save £70 on the current store price, and that included factoring in shipping and VAT. Thank you for another excellent video.
Thank you for watching! I see you know me well! It’s a good Strategy to save money. Well done.
Thanks for the great review. I think I'm going to save up for the 823. I have only ever heard great things about it and it will make a great addition to my growing collection.
Hope you enjoy it! It's a great chocie.
I have both pens and really like both of them. I do think that if someone wants a gold nib, you can't go wrong with the 823 just because of the price.
Great advice! Thank you for watching and for the excellent comment.
Great job! I also have both, the more I use the 823 I seem to always grab it. I need to ink it 3 times more often, that’s how much I use it.
Wonderful! Thanks for watching and for all the you do for this Channel.
It was no contest, the 823 is as perfect as a fountain pen could be !! However, now that there is a version that has a cartridge-converter system (the 743), you can have this perfect pen with an easier cleaning system and change your inks more often !!
Great video as always HJ !!
Thanks Gino! I need to get my hands on one of those.
I adore my Pilot 743. I have it with a soft medium nib, which is just superb. It's soft, juicy, big and a pure joy to write with. And, as you already stated, it's way easier to clean. To be pedantic, it's the older version. It has been released in 1992, while the Pilot 823 has been released in 2000. 😀
That’s good information. Thanks so much.
@@HemingwayJones And there is even more. 🙂 There is a system in the model numbering. The first two digits are the release year after the company has been founded. And the third - if present - is the price in 10,000 yens. So, the 743 has been released in the 74th year after the company's foundation and (still) costs 30,000 yens.
And my nib has "512" stamped on the side. That means that the nib has been produced in May 2012.
Very interesting comparison. I like them both. I have the TWSBI Diamond 580 ALR and love it. If confronted with the choice where you had to purchase either one of these pens, the Pilot 823 technically costs $261 if you forgo purchasing the TWSBI ($336 - $75 = $261). Silly math for sure, but that's one way to look at it. 😄
I love creative math to arrive at whatever rationalization I need at the moment. Well done! Thanks My Friend.
That’s actually a perfectly legit way to consider pen purchases, Kurt. I do it all the time, when prioritizing and deciding what to buy and what to forgo. Unless you decide ‘what the heck, I’ll buy both just because…’ 😀
@@sajjadhusain4146 I do the same, Sajjad. Some folks like to refer to it as creative accounting, I view it as 'financial logistics.' 😄
@@kurtgeisinger2012 ..Ha, people calling it ‘creative accounting’ is a bit harsh, or it’s simply a backhanded compliment. You’re right, though. Financial logistics, indeed. You decide where your money goes or stays, right? 🙂
I was initially captivated by the vacuum fill and the purpose built inkwell TWSBI offers for the 700R. However, I found the gasket in the inkwell didn't stand up as well as I would have liked and leaving a little air in the reservoir seems to help with ink flow. My favorite fill systems remain vacuum and piston, but I don't use a special inkwell. They guzzle straight from the ink bottle.
Here, here! I do the same. Thanks for watching!
Yes, I bought the 823 after watching some of your videos. Love that pen and not sorry about getting one!
Wonderful! Happy to have helped inspire you!
I have been surprised at the influx of new companies into the vacuum filler market, Nahvalur, Asvine, Pineider and Gravitas pens all have done vacuum pens recently and people seem pretty positive on them. The vacuum fillers I wish more people would at least mention is the Sheaffer vacuum fillers from WWII. I have two that Paper Wants a Pen restored and they are just amazing.
I have a snorkel pen I quite like. Shaeffer always makes excellent pens. Thanks for watching.
Great video as always! I'm glad I finally got around to watch it. I would and probably could never afford a rather expensive fountain pen like the pilot for example, but I am still impressed by the craftsmanship that goes into them and you are able to describe it perfectly.
I recently got what one would call a frail fountain pen from America in the mail, a Parker from the late 1920s and am loving it so far!
Anyways, thanks again for these videos, you really run the whole fountain pen content creation on youtube, in my opinion 👍
Thank you so much for the kind comment. That’s very encouraging! Thank you. Great find on the vintage Parker!
Nice review, and I fully agree with your result. Both pens are excellent and among my favourite ones but the Pilot 823 has clearly the edge, especially with its nib that I really love. I was just a little surprised with the distinction you made that Pilot is not fully transparent (or demonstrator): I've got two of them (the only specific type of pen that I've got two specimen of in my rather small collection) and one is the clear demonstrator (the other one is Amber, only partially transparent).
Thanks so much for watching. I’d have to go back and watch it again, but I may have been referring to how the TWSBI is clear and the Pilot is Amber; translucent and not quite transparent. I rather wish the demonstrator Japanese version was readily available in the US. Al the best and thanks for watching!
@@HemingwayJones Oh I see, I didn't know the transparent version wasn't available in the US. I've bought mine on the German branch of Amazon, both of them-clear and Amber, clear first-actually. Greetings from Prague, Czechia.
It’s difficult to get here, sadly. How is it? Do you enjoy it? I have been meaning to track one down. Thanks for watching. @@marcelsvitalsky8993
@@HemingwayJones Well, it's just like the Amber one, only transparent. And yes, I love it, it's one of my EDC pens which I carry in a nice two-pen case, and it comes out especially when I am writing something longer (for short quick notes I usually carry another excellent Pilot, Elite, in my chest pocket).
great comparison, thanks for sharing
Thank you for watching!
The results certainly match my experience! I have both -- 823 first, Vac 700R came along much later. I added the Vac 700 as a "low worry" pen for travel etc even if $70 is not nothing, it's less painful than 823 cost. As many know, the price difference is less than it appears once you factor in gold nib vs. steel. Many pens that offer the option of steel vs gold have an upcharge of $150 or so for the gold. Finally, if you're willing to gamble on a non-US retailer (i.e., direct from Japan) that 823 can be had well under $300.
All excellent points. Thanks for watching.
Had an eye on Pilot 823. At last I bought it a month ago. Fantastic one. Got a Fine nib. Enjoy every bit of it.
Do you disassemble for an ink change or use only flushing it repeatedly?
I do not disassemble it. I just keep flushing until it’s clear as possible. I don’t mind a little water or ink mixing. It doesn’t affect much. Thanks!
I would strongly recommend against disassembling the pen. And if you’re happy to sticking to just one ink for the pen, then it’s even better easier maintenance.
Thanks for this video. The Pilot Custom 823 is on my acquisition list! What size nib are you writing with in the video?
It was and is a medium! Thanks so much for watching.
Good one posing your wife as FLAMING JUNE by Frederick Leighton. Well done! Did a double take since it is seen for such a short time. An Easter egg? Didn’t see this one till today. Still chuckling. Good pen comparison as well, of course.
Thank you for this review!
I did buy the TWSBI and returned it…too bulky for me…I definitly will save my money for the Pilot 823! The shape of this pen teminds me so much a pen I had in the past, the vintage « Rapidograph Koh-I-Noor » drafting pen!
Thanks for watching! That 700 is a bit thick. I am trending toward more elegant pens myself. All the best!
im loving your pilot custom comparisons! have you ever compared it to a vintage pen? it would be an interesting video.
thanks for posting! i really enjoyed your thoughts on the pens
Thank you! I haven’t but I have been thinking about some mash ups like that. Thank you!
Wow, your most enthusiastic recommendation of the Custom so far in my video catch-up…very happy I already ordered it 😂! I feel these 2 models are apples and oranges, really. One is your banker’s pen and one is your hair stylist’s. Elegant and formal vs. flamboyant and playful. I’d say, maybe we should get both! I do consider, as well, into which pen I’d put fuchsia ink! I do like the idea of the TWSBI (with its vac fill) for travel but now I’ve got the Kaweko Sport in brass for that. Do you tend to take cartridges or a bottle of ink when you use the Sport for travel? Thanks again!
Thanks so much for watching this! I love the 823. It’s so elegant. I usually carry Ink with me. I hope you love it.
I have owned both pens. I still have my Pilot Custom 823. The Vac 700 has some good features including a specialized inkwell for filling it. I had two objections: first, it was uncomfortable with that bulge above the section, and second mine was a very dry writer.
Very good points! Mine isn’t dry. It may have to do with the custom grind nib. Hmmm. The specialized inkwell sounds fun. I wish I had the Visconti one. Thanks for watching and stay well. Jason - Inventor of the Dalmatian Sock.
@@HemingwayJones The purple Dalmation!
Have - and love - both these pens but in clear and amber. I think the biggest thing in favour of the Twsbi is how easy it is to take apart and clean. That said, I have to agree with your conclusion - 823 is just so good to write with.
That is a very good point. I would never disassemble my 823. Excellent comment.
Thanks for the review HJ..I was leaning towards the TWSBI- but after your review…I’m not digging it so much now.
Oh no! It’s still an awesome pen. But in comparison to the 823…
Thanks. Neither was on my radar, but it was interesting hearing your views. Pilot 823 definitely out of my price range, anyway, so I'll be able to sleep soundly. tonight. By the way, I really don't like large capacity ink users. Have too many samples and bottles that I want to try. Thanks again.
Thank you, so much!
The Pilot 823, is the best pen I've ever written with, (I've discontinued my Fine Nib, but the medium is a mainstay) and their customer service is on point, but the affluent attitude around their pens (i.e, you do anything but write with this pen, warranty nulled !) was a drawback.
Twsbi, on the other hand, has that blue-collar attitude of, "Here's some grease and a wrench, go nuts!" And their customer service is just as good as Pilot. And for a steel nib, they write fantastic.
Both are amazing in my eyes, but the Pilot 823s are my book tour pens, and the Vacs are my book writing workhorses.
Wonderful. I cannot disagree. Thanks for watching.
The Pilot 823 is a grail pen for sure. I need a medium nib for my next gift from the hubby. Over a few years I've collected 3 of them but I want a medium now.
Very nice! Sounds like an excellent collection. Thanks for watching.
Thank you for addressing the flare. I hug the nib sometimes and that flare also hurts my fingers.
It’s a little weird, where it is! It does bother me a bit. I just mailed a letter to you. Be on the lookout.
I don’t have a 700R, but I do love my two TWSBI ECOs. BUT, my 823 is hands-down the best writing experience of all my pens. My personal preferences have led me to wanting that Pilot nib on cartridge/converter with flat ends … basically a Sailor Professional Gear with a Pilot Custom 823 nib! LOL. Another great video.
Thank you so much! I’m glad you enjoyed it.
When I was determining which vacuum-filler to get a few years ago, I'd found that the TWSBI Vac 700r are easily interchangeable. The spare nibs won't have the Iris design if that's the color model one owns. If the current models can still easily nib swap and TWSBI still sells spare nibs , I would give the TWSBI a point for nib swappability(yes, I just made up a word haha), whereas Pilot doesn't sell spare nibs and it'll void warranty if we do so.
I ultimately saved up for the Pilot Custom 823. My line of thinking that since I've found the price within reach, I thought it was best tk save up for what's consider 'the best' when it comes to vacuum-fillers. I'm also a fan and definitely biased towards Pilot when it comes to their steel nibs and their multi-pens, so that was the route I went. Very glad I did. Got my model in the Amber color with a bold nib. I have it filled with Taccia "Nakamurasaki" from their Ukiyo-e line. It's just a lovely pen with that puts down a thick line lovely warm dark purple ink smoothly.
Thanks for posting. There were alot of good points mentioned, so the video will be a useful guide for the future generation. Best to you!
Thanks so much for the kind words! The ability to field strip a TWSBI is a huge benefit. I am so glad you enjoy the 823. It is such a nice pen. All the best and stop by again soon.
Hello HJ. Another insightful video. I must admit that the Japanese pens don't excite me. I like my pens, watches and cars to be of a German variety. Perhaps I am doing myself an injustice by not looking to the far east but like I told you before, I only have 10 fountain pens and 7 come from Germany. I believe that I would drive myself nuts if I had the collection that you and your viewers have. I switch out daily the pen and ink in my journal, that way I get to enjoy my entire collection. Just my simple opinion. Great show. I'm sure that it will inspire many viewers.
Thank you, My Friend! I appreciate you watching just to learn about a pen you may never buy. a 10 pen collection is perfect. I have too many, but it goes with this job. I am building a pen library! The worst thing for me is that almost all of them are inked always! It’s a problem. But then I am always filming something or another. Thanks for being here!
Gee! What a shocker Hemingway. A $335 Japanese Classic pen by Pilot beats out a $60 Taiwanese newcomer to the fountain pen market. I am totally astounded with the results. Have a great day. Keep up the great work.
😂 I could never fool you guys. You know me too well. Thanks for the smile.
Well, no, I think it's a solid question. Pilot and Vacs may be a question of choice, dictated by writing paper or occasion. As for my new, Pilot 823? My wife is jealous of it.
OTOH, it shows you get what you pay for. People often go the cheaper route only to regret not spending the money the first time.
HJ, would you still choose the 823 over the 743? Different filling mechanism but both great pens
Sadly, I don’t have a 743 and I haven’t tried it, so I cannot be sure. I generally prefer the rarer fill system. So right now, if I had to choose for the first time between them, I would break 823. (I am so curious about the 743 though). Thanks so much for watching!
Both pens are just the same, save only the filling system. They even cost the same. I don’t own the 743, but on balance, I think I’d pick the 743. Not least because it offers far more nib size options, too.
I have both an amber-colored 823 and a Smoke 823. These are beautiful and classic but not a heap of fun as colors go. Never tried the 743;but,believe I am over the vacuum filling system.
Cartridge/Converters in general have won me over;easier to clean and I find I don't really need/want a HUGE volume of ink in my pens. The PIlot cartridges are durable, refillable, and awesome. I'd truly love to have a PC 743 in the Verdigris color; but,being heavily invested in the 823 already,cannot justify the purchase.
@@McAmeron089III I’ve been torn between choosing one but it seems like I might take my chance with the 743. I concur with your cartridge /converter comment.
@@McAmeron089III ..I’d want a 743 in a vintage-y peacock turquoise color with a wonderful Waverly nib, like the one I have on my PC 912.
Thanks Hemingway, enjoyed this. If you’d like an 823 experience but want to change the ink more often, why not a Pilot 743?
Absolutely agree! 743 sounds amazing! I just don’t have one.
One thing that definitely detracts from the 823 is that if you disassemble it you are invalidating its warranty and risking cracks. Something that makes cleaning and maintaining the seals a huge issue. You also cannot ink it with an eye dropper for the same reason, meaning bottles that are running low are going to be an issue.
All true. Thanks so much for watching and for the great comment.
I love the 700r, but the Custom 823 is just sublime. The Custom 823 would be a finalist for "I can only have one fountain pen". I would love to see some paper reviews Hemingway. Your videography is so good, what paper is that at the 8:54 mark?
Thank you so much! Compliments on my videography make me happy. Thank you! I am glad you enjoyed this. That paper is from Clairefontaine. J Herbin was kind enough to send it. Thanks!
The clip on the 823 mirrors the clip that Pilot has on the Namiki Emperor. It seems to be their design language like the Italian pens with the wheel in the clip.
Very good point. They are not wholly consistent with that though. Pilot clip shapes are all over the place. All good though. Lovely pens. Hope all is well in your world.
One other point for the Twsbi is ease of disassembly. You aren’t supposed to remove the piston from the 823, which makes it a challenge to clean
Very true, although, of course, people do. Braver sounds than I.
I have both pens and agree with you about the flare in the middle of the TWSBI VAC700R Iris and the superiority of the Pilot Custom 823.
Thanks very much!
Thanks for this comparison. I totally agree with you - the Pilot is the winner. I don't like the design of the Vac700 - this "flare" in the middle is not appealing to me. My favourite TWSBI is the Diamond580AL-R. It is a well-designed pen with the perfect ink capacity. And it is fun to combine inks which are contrasting to the pen (e.g. currently I have Rohrer&Klingner "Helianthus" in my "Prussian Blue" 580 - it makes me happy to look at the yellow ink floating in the clear barrel besides the blueish parts of the pen). And thank you for reminding me that I should read "A Year in Provence" again... 😁
Don't think about that for sure, one less time on restaurant visits and buy the Pilot 823.
At least I have both and they both have their qualities and charms.
Very good advice! Always great to hear from you and I agree completely.
I think a really important consideration is for those seeking entrance into the fountain pen experience and what they should buy to find out if they want to make it a part of their lives. An off-the-shelf, clamshell-packed fountain pen won't answer that question. They're not a real representation of what a fountain pen can be for a person. But $300+ is a big first investment. So, the real question is what is the best entry-level fountain pen that can answer the question, "Is this world for me?" And what does it cost to answer that question.
I have a Parker Sonnet, that my father gave me nearly 30 years ago. I know the answer to that question. But that's still a fairly expensive pen. Would I tell a student to spend that much to scratch an itch? After hearing this review, I might just tell him to by the TWSBI Vac 700R. But are there other options for that purpose?
The pilot 823 is a wonderful writer,not everybody can afford a 149. And have a wonderful trip with yr family.frank in Oswego,ill
Thank you My Friend! I agree completely.
@@HemingwayJones thanks,today my cross Townsend chrome,have a wonderful trip
Congratulations!
One of these days I am getting a 823 with an M nib. There's one in my future, the only question is... When... 🤔
The Medium nib on the 823 is just magnificent. After you get one you'll wonder what took you so long! The price will soon fade from memory.
@@McAmeron089III yet for now that would be the most expensive pen I would have ever gotten, never spent more than €200 on a fountain pen 😅
How soon is now?! That’s what mine is. Wonderful writer.
This is a HUGE consideration. Maybe second hand?
@@McAmeron089III For sure, but I am here living in the before times still 🙂
@6:00 The Cap -- TWSBIs break where the cap meets cap-ring, I think Pilot gets the point.
Two of my TWSBIs broke at the cap-band, none of my Pilot pens ever have. Reddit posts substantiate this with a larger sample-size.
Nothing more valuable than personal experience. I’ve never had a TWSBI crack but I’ve heard of it. Same with the barrels of 823s. I wonder sometimes if I should comment on this. As in , “Some say…” I try to go by personal experience. All the best.
For a lower cost vac fill pen, I'd go for the PenBBS 456.
Medium or fine Nib on the custom 823?
I have a Medium. It is incredibly smooth.
I love my fine point. Crisp yet consistently smooth. I’ve read that there’s a big jump from the Pilot fine (which is more fine than my German fine points) to the Pilot medium. I like my 823 fine so much I got another fine point on my 734.
HJ, would you like to review the Platinum Izumo Raden Galaxy. Ping me if you want to borrow it for a while.
Thank you, My Friend! I appreciate that! I will let you know. Thank you for your enormous generosity.
You atleast get Titanium in the TWISBI for the body. Not sure about the nib but since the iridescent color isn't coming off at the tip of the nib where it contacts the paper i will say that the iridescent portion or atleast the contact point is also made of titanium or coated with it.
Just know you're going to be paying shipping on replacement caps for the TWSBI, which over time is going to add to the price. Also, if it's not the plain clear version, depending on availability, you may not get the correct cap.
I have not had that experience. I’ve had some of mine for years and nothing has happened yet.
@@HemingwayJones I'm glad to hear that!
I'm so surprised that you give the point to the TWSBI for having the cap band on the edge instead of up a bit like on the Pilot, when Vac700 caps are famous for breaking every time you look at them cross-eyed.
I have three Vac700s and all together I think I've been through six or seven caps. A friend on mine has two, both currently with broken caps and he just sent me a photo of a friend of his with a lineup of Vac700s with broken caps.
In spite of all this, I'm still tempted to get the Iris version! The problem is, one they stop making that model I won't be able to get replacement caps, as happened with both my blue and smoke Vac700 which now sport unmatching clear caps.
If I had had that experience with their caps, I wouldn’t buy anymore. That’s a nightmare.
@@HemingwayJones it was an irritation only until this last time I needed them replaced and they no longer have caps in stock for the discontinued versions. I just got the new caps in a week or so ago so I'm a bit salty about it still.
I would imagine that Chinese pens are not a popular topic around here but... If it weren't for the Wing Sung 699 I wouldn't be saving for a Pilot Custom 823. That's probably what you should buy if you are considering the 823. No, you won't get the same writing experience. It's a $30 pen. At the same time, it's not bad. The nib is soft and very comfortable to write with. And, since it is basically a copy you will have a good idea of how it will feel in your hand.
I really like the wingsung 699
I like my WingSung 699 way more than my vac700.
Asvine V126 is worth checking out too.
I have no issue with pens made anywhere in the world. I celebrate all of them. Thank you for the wonderful information! This kind of comment really adds to this channel!
I like them both, for different reasons. I don't mind the flair, it's a part of the VAC filling and the comparably thincker walls. I think the 823 to get is the demonstrator, currently unavailable in the US (but available, I believe, in Japan.). BTW: The difference in price of Pilot Japan and Pilot US is absurd, though I do not know if this is a Pilot issue, or a US distributor issue.
That is a strategy that a lot of people use to get them for less. There is a Pilot N America, so I am assuming they are the determinant of the price point. Thanks for checking in and for watching!
I also have both - the affordability of the Vac700 is nice, but the writing experience of the Pilot 823 is sublime. People love pens for many different reasons, but I'm still confident to say that most buyers would enjoy their writing so much more with the 823. It would be like comparing beef jerky to a Medium-Rare Ribeye with a Chateau Margaux Cabernet Sauvignon. I would happily eat both, but only one of the two is going to make me praise God uncontrollably while consuming it. ;)
I agree completely. Thank you for the comment and for watching.
Interesting review, but you left out a big factor in my opinion. I have tried the pilot and find it to be merely ok. However, the pilot will never find it's way into my collection because I hate the gold/brown/black aesthetic it comes in and it doesn't come in any other options. At such a high price point, I would have to look at it and love it, and I don't. I think it is terribly ugly. I especially disagree about the look of the ball on the clip - yuck! I have the twisbi and it's lovely... one of my favorite all-around pens to look at as well as to write with. As you mentioned... Twisbi is a third of the cost, making this a highly unfair comparison. The pilot would be better compared to something like a Leonardo, but it simply doesn't hold a candle to pens at that level, either aesthetically or in the writing experience.
Thanks so much for watching! This channel compares all sorts of pens from disparate price points and on many different factors. So, it’s something you’ll see and it inspires excellent thoughts and comments; like this one. Thank you!
I disagree on the globe of metal. I think it’s rad and sort of mid-C, but that’s a matter of taste and I appreciate yours.
There is a Japanese demonstrator version of the 823 that can be had. Alas, more easily in Japan.
Thanks for the great comment and for watching.
That settles it! I want a vac filler to travel with so I’m going with the TWSBI! 😂😂
Please circle back and let me know what you think of it! Wish you well.
@@HemingwayJones Now the question is: 700r Iris or Vac mini?
I need a Vac Mini! Then I can do it.
Countless times I read if you got the 823 you wouldn't need any other pen
and so many fountain pen enthusiasts can't be wrong.
So honestly I wouldn't have been interested in such a comparison
if it weren't for you and your unique approach describing pens.
Thank you!
Thank you! That is terrifically kind of you to say! Thanks!!!
There is no one perfect fountain pen.
The 912 is more flexible, cheaper, easier to obtain and maintain, than the 823 .
The 823 also isn't available in a stub, and nib options are very limited. You can of course have a nibmeister work on the nib, but then it's not exactly that Pilot nib any more.
Is there not? Interesting question. The 146 comes close.
I like my Iris but I love my 823.
Nice! Me too!
Pilot all the way. I used to really really want an 823 but have since got a narwhal that is a vac filler ( I personally like Narwhal more than TWSBI) and I have a Visconti Voyager 30 with a vac filler and 14K gold nib. I don't know that I really NEED one anymore. Might still get one for the collection later on though.
You already have some wonderful pens. Well done.
@@HemingwayJones I'm thinking of starting a channel myself possibly around or after February.
@@williamcatalano1762 Good Luck, My Friend. Wish you all the best.
@@HemingwayJones Thanks Hemingway!
I would jump at an 823, other than the brown/gold just isn't my thing. If perhaps I was in a professional office setting then maybe I'd consider it.
I have no pens with gold trim, other than some vintage pens I've had since I was a kid (no I'm not that old that I used fountain pens at school 🤣).
Further, I assume a brown pen is very restrictive in terms of the colour of the ink that can be used in it. Black for sure, but what other high use colour would suit it? I'd not want to fill it with an 'occasional' ink.
Fine comparison HJ, albeit I've never considered the TWSBI as an 823 competitor.
Cheers ✒️✒️✒️
Thanks so much for watching! I am glad you enjoyed it. I just put blue in mind and it feels a little weird.
@@HemingwayJones I can totally imagine blue would feel out of place. Perhaps a deep 'forest' green may work as another colour aside from black?
I would think. I am not a fan of greens usually. Great call though. I like the way you think.
@@HemingwayJones I don't especially write with green either, but like red, I find I always use it, mostly for diary work or student assessment tasks. I currently have a Lamy Al in green inked with green (Taccia Lady Emerald - part of the 'guitar' range!)
Thanks for your replies and regular engagement. Very 😎
@@nostro1001 Sure, Thanks for watching and being here.
Herodotus reminds me of when I was doing some greek in high school
Nice! Sounds like “The Secret History.” Sadly, I can only read it in English, but I love the book. I’ve read it twice. Fascinating getting first hand accounts of the ancient world.
@@HemingwayJones Oh, it is not like I can read it in classical Greek either, might have painstakingly translated half of a paragraph about the persian wars once, but that is about it for my relationship with Herodotes!
I wasn't a very good student, but I liked mythology and history enough to take some classics as elective. Teacher was very charismatic too, that kept the class entertaining. Got a few bonus points towards my high school diploma, ("baccalauréat") got me enough of a mark ot have it "with honors" 🤣
After all this dark academia talk, I really should read "the secret history" eh?
I am shocked, shocked that you declared the Pilot Custom 823 the winner! Would it defeat the Pilot Custom Urushi or the Montblanc Egyptomania?
So many match ups we could do! We could make a series!
Saving up to buy the Pilot Custom Urushi first would make buying pretty much all the rest of the pens in Pilot’s Custom line, including the 823 (but excluding the 845), pretty pointless, in my opinion.
I have both a Pilot Custom Urushi and a Custom 823 and there's really no comparison as far as nibs go.
The Custom Urushi writes effortlessly, the ink flow is oh so juicy, and the pen just floats over the paper with the lightest touch. I don't notice or even think about bounce or flex with the nib.
The 823 is a very different experience with the FA nib and I did get a custom ebonite feed from flexible nib factory. I have it as more of a drawing pen than writing pen. Biggest problem with the 823 is deciding which ink to use in it.
I also have a Pilot 912 with FA and ebonite feed also for drawing. It's a better pen for that since staining the converter hidden in a black pen with Platinum Carbon Black ink isn't a big deal, and the #10 nib is slightly softer for flexing than the 823's #15.
@@RobRutherford ..I have the vermillion PC Urushi (M), the 845 Urushi (B), the Justus 95 (FM), the PCH 912 (Waverley), and the Pilot Silvern Tsumugi (M) - all of which I prefer to the 823.
@@HemingwayJones , a series would be great! winner takes all!!
I prefer the TWSBI Vac700R because I prefer using a broad European nib for a pen with a vacuum filler. I don't care for Japanese nibs, since they are so fine that a large ink supply is not convenient to me. I also don't care for the feedback of Japanese nibs, and don't own any Japanese pens. I also like the demonstrator of the TWSBI, since it looks like whatever ink is in it. For an expensive pen, I prefer the Pelikan M400, despite it not being a vacuum filler.
I’d say most Japanese broad nibs, though, write a line-width on par with Western broads, barring maybe only Pelikan and Montblanc broad nibs. And I have many Japanese broad nibs across Pilot, Platinum and Sailor pens.
TWSBI’s generic Jowo steel nibs are some of the most boring, forgettable nibs around. I’ve long stopped buying pens with standard Jowo nibs. Bock is much better.
All good reasons. We all like what we like. Thanks so much for watching.
Isnt' vacuum fillers hard to clean and that is why they have large capacity? I think it's a point to the Vac700r. also you could get 5 base color vac700r with 5 different nib sizes with 5 different colors for 1 Pilot. I think that is a better writing experience.
300 is still a lot of money I was fortunate to get it new in the box for $200. I honestly would have passed for over $300. Although, I do love it. I would strongly recommend the Vac for budget watchers and if they can get the 823 for $250 to get it (you might have to find it used or search Japanese sites but it can be sone) ...
Very well done! Buying second hand or dead stock is always a brilliant move.
@HemingwayJones wait to you see my next win, hopefully. I have to wait until tomorrow morning to make sure it goes threw!
Please let me know. I love to live vicariously.
@HemingwayJones sorry I don't know why it cut off I love using sendico to buy Japanese only products you get them really cheap. You just really need to know what you are looking for. This before the price change so I am not sure if that Japanese prices went up.
I used to always post my pens, then I got an Opus 88 Demonstrator and learned a couple of things:
Turns to remove the cap can be a big deal, 4 turns to open sucks, 3/4 for my FC E-Motion is great.
Posting isn't as big deal as I thought it was and now I don't tend to post. Though I do think it would be amusing to be aboard and airplane writing with a posted, vermillion Namiki Emperor. Sadly I still don't have one of those.
As I don't wear jackets or shirts with pockets I like clipless pens so that isn't a consideration. I even unscrewed the finial and removed the clip on the Opus 88; the roll stop on the Kilk NovoBaroque is a great functional design, (and the pen writes like a dream). That said my favorite clip is the levered, spring loaded clip on the FC E-motion, it borders on fidget toy even.
Thanks for the informative comment!
Muchas gracias por tus vídeos tan entretenidos. Saludos
Muchas Gracias!
The twsbi aesthetics and large name script and unmatched cap logo are a little jarring. Should be reworked for the expensive vac 700 r. The 823 despite being ,ore expensive than the twsbi is I think the best value premium gold nib pen.
I don’t mind it so much, but I cannot disagree with you. You make excellent points.
i think that title needs to go to the Lamy 2000
Love both my Twsbi and Pilot 823, but after using my Pilot 823 I’ve become spoiled and yet to find a pen to rival it.
Completely agree.
The Vac is Ok, but has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
Comparison is the thief of joy. I'm grateful for my 2 entry level pens. I can only use one at a time.
Comparison is the lifeblood of TH-cam. Thanks for watching.
I’m no fan of TWSBI pens, mainly for the nibs. The PC 823 is a fantastic pen, all round. The 823’s price has gone up by nearly $50 since a few months ago. It is still very worth the money for its quality, feel, reliability and writing experience.
On principle, and from my own experience, I just think that, generally, it is very worth waiting and saving for pricey pens of proven excellence than buy a handful or more of cheaper, but nevertheless popular pens.
In this particular face-off between these two pens, it is a no-brainer to me. I’d recommend saving to buy the PC 823, every time. And well, the Twsbi Vac-700r is just not ‘good enough’ (to me). 🙂
My TWSBI Vac700R has cracks on the threads of the body and ink leaks out on my fingers when holding it. I am not sure if this is a common problem, but it is unusable. And the cap cracked and I had to pay for a replacement. That's two problems on my $70 pen, very disappointed :/
That is a HUGE problem. I have heard similar from TWSBI. I have not experienced this myself… yet. When I do, I will sound the alarm! Thanks so much for the great comment.
The twsbi Eco is good enough. The Pilot Metro is good enough. So are several others.
I think you missed the point.
Not a fair comparison. Its like comparing a Toyota to a Mercedes. Don’t see the value in that. More use is if
If I had $100 to spend what us the best be I can buy.
It’s all about whether you should scratch the itch with the TWSBI or save for the 823. I think the TWSBI would have done better if it were more streamlined. Personally, I think any comparison is fair. I may compare an Eco to a MB 149 next. The Eco may win. All pens are equal in my eyes. Thanks so much for watching and for the comment. Stop by again soon
You clearly compare apples and oranges. The only thing in common is the vacuum filling system. And even in this category you rate the Pilot higher when the TWSBI clearly has the more refined thought through vac filling system. One can tell right from the beginning which of these two fountain pens will be the champion. Comparisons like these don’t make any sense imo.
One can compare anything. These are especially valid since many buy the TWSBI before the 823. I completely disagree that the TWSBI has a better fill system. Maybe next time it will be a Kakuno v Urushi. Thanks so much for watching and for the comment.
I mean it’s clear you favor the pilot more.
I noted a bias about 2 minutes in, so I bailed.
I wonder if you were right! By the way, this Channel is not impartial. This is entertainment. Thanks for the view!
Pilot is overrated. The Vac 700 R is every bit as good as the Pilot.
Bold take! Love it! Thanks for the comment.
@@HemingwayJones Try the 24 K Ultra Flex nib from Fountain Pen Revolution. Now, THAT is something special.
Pilot is rated fairly and just right. But I prefer Sailor even more. 🙂
@@sajjadhusain4146 Namiki is fantastic, Pilot, meh.
I have. It’s nice. I’ve spoken about it on some Flex vids.
I’m selling a mint 823 amber med nib if interested
I’d have asked to buy yours if it had the B nib. My amber (M) is sadly, broken and unusable. I haven’t replaced it yet. But I will eventually.
A small piece of the feed got sucked up into the barrel of my Smoke 823 during cleaning/flushing(I don't disassemble it). Sent it back to Pilot. They fixed and had it back to me fairly quickly;no charge. It's just one more thing that CAN happen with a vac-filler. I sorta wish my 823s were 743s.
The Verdigris color option on the 743 calls to me.@@sajjadhusain4146