The Best No Input Mixer? Comparison & Shootout
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ส.ค. 2024
- No input mixing is a technique pioneered by Toshimaru Nakamura, which involves using feedback to turn a normal audio mixer into a chaotic, noisy, synth-like musical instrument.
In this video I take a look at four different mixers to see how they respond to no input mixer feedback patching, and what kinds of sounds we can get out of them. We'll look at a Mackie ProFX10v3, a Yamaha MG10Xu, an Allen & Heath ZEDi-10FX, and a Korg Volca Mix Analog Performance Mixer. I'll share some of the key things I look for in a mixer for no input mixing, lots of sounds and patch examples, and my takeaway on the best mixer of the bunch.
Learn More / Buy a Mixer (affiliate links help out my channel-thank you!)
Mackie ProFX10v3:
link.perfectcircuit.com/t/v1/...
Yamaha MG10Xu:
link.perfectcircuit.com/t/v1/...
Allen & Heath ZEDi-10FX:
link.perfectcircuit.com/t/v1/...
Korg Volca Mix Analog Performance Mixer:
link.perfectcircuit.com/t/v1/...
1/4" Mono TS Patch Cables:
link.perfectcircuit.com/t/v1/...
1/4" Balanced TRS Cables:
link.perfectcircuit.com/t/v1/...
FMR Audio Really Nice Compressor:
link.perfectcircuit.com/t/v1/...
FMR Audio Really Nice Leveling Amp:
link.perfectcircuit.com/t/v1/...
Stereo Direct Box (with adjustable input level control):
link.perfectcircuit.com/t/v1/...
Video Timestamps:
00:00 Intro & Overview
00:30 Quick Intro to No Input Mixing
3:51 Protect Your Ears & Speakers
4:41 Mackie ProFX10v3
8:24 Yamaha MG10XU
14:46 Allen & Heath ZEDi-10FX
19:49 Korg Volca Mix
23:41 Who's The Winner?
To learn more about no input mixing, how it works, and how to get started, you can check out my "No Input Mixer Tutorial" here:
• No Input Mixer Tutoria...
To download a bundle of all the sounds recorded in the making of this video that you can use as samples in your own musical projects, check out our awesome community over on Patreon:
/ sarahbellereid
Enroll in my FREE introductory modular synthesis mini-course, "Your 1st Modular Synth Patch" to learn the fundamentals of modular synthesis, signal flow, and how to make your first sounds from scratch on a modular synth (no gear required -- you can do this whole course with just a computer):
www.soundandsynthesis.com/fir...
My Music:
sarahbellereid.bandcamp.com/
open.spotify.com/artist/7dvDu...
Merch:
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Curious about modular synthesis, electronic music, and sound design, but unsure how to get started? I have something for you! Join my free "intro to synthesis" mini course here: www.soundandsynthesis.com/firstpatch2022
PS: You don't need any special gear to do this-just a computer with VCV Rack (which is free to download).
Hi Sarah
I have a technical/setup question for you. I just bought the Moog Sound Studio Trio.
I have the Moog connected by/from the single Out port on the summing mixer to my audio interface (Focusrite Scarlett 2i4), and from there I have the audio interface connected to my KRK Rokit 5’s.
For some reason, when everything is turned on, there is sound only coming out from one of the KRKs, and then from the other when I switch to the other port on the front of the audio interface.
In your opinion, do I need to add a mixer to this chain(?), and if so, where should the mixer be placed within this chain(?)
I greatly appreciate any advice that you can provide here. (Newly subscribed to your channel).
Thanks
Brian D
Thanks for this, I have a mackie 1202 for NIM and it is awesome, but your demo of the Yamaha made me pick up a yamaha MG10/2 and this baby is SWEEET!!!! Just absolutely amazing. thanks again!
This is (in my mind) the best sample source technique. Quantize it and chop it. ❤🎉
That is totally my plan. To make some percussive samples and some pitched drones as texture in my otherwise "conventional" music.
I am so happy that you are just using the same basic mixers . There are all kinds of mixers and you are not using the ones I have found are more musical less crowded . Its great info thanks for sharing it !
I'm so hooked on no input, I'm stoked to see another piece of content from you on the subject!
thanks! I love it too... there *might* be more coming as well :)
every single sound you made was so incredible. i need this now.
This can work really well in modular, too. I experimented today and tried to make a no-input mixing patch using my SSF Vortices module, and it worked out super well! Glad to know there are plenty of great-sounding options out there.
I’m so glad someone finally did this! Love your work
Love this video! Well done! You covered the topic way better than I did in my harsh noise review of the Yamaha MG10XU. It really is a fantastic mixer capable of a variety of sounds. I used it and a few pedals to record a whole album of no-input mixed harsh noise wall textures, called WRETCHED CRAWLER - The Thief In The Tower. No input mixing is so much fun! Thanks again for this great video.
A technique I used quite some time, always glad to see it covered a bit more. I thoroughly recommend using a simple echo, delay or reverb to soften the sound. Put a drum into the mixer and everything goes mad, super fun!
Hi Sarah, your video encouraged me to try this on the smaller sister of the MG10XU, the MG06 (which does not even have the effect section and just 6 channels) but even on that totally basic Yamaha model you can get the hiss sounds by using the same 1 patch cable connection you showed...and this is really a pocket mixer for a bargain price. Thanks for the great video!
Amazon overnighted a mixer after watching this! Picked up a VidPro MX-042, very very stoked. I can’t believe how sucked into a single patch I got! Thank u for making videos!
I've been using the exact same mixer for no input mixing and have been very happy with it. Lots of control with a large range of somewhat controllable tones. Nice to hear it was the pick of the bunch! :)
wow!! this was so insightful! ive been dying to use a massive mixer that was given to me, but i rarely have enough inputs to really make the most out of it. the idea that it is actually a very capable noise machine in itself is so exciting!
wow that volca mix looks like a ton of fun, cant wait to see how you break all of this down!!
I saw your original video on NIM and because of it I just picked up two mixers and patch cables to mess around with. It’s so cool to see that you’ve turned a kind of esoteric form of art into digestible TH-cam content. Keep up the good work! For what it’s worth the behringer 1202fx works great for this I’ve been tempted to add a mackie to the setup though
Thanks sarah .
I bought YAMAHA MG10UX.
I listen Noise music before almost 20 year ago.
I had think , electronic guiter and record sound of nature.
But i realized , understand No Input mixer ,
Becus your tutorial.
Something about feedback! It can be friend or foe. You certainly have made it friend. Very nice. Bought my first Mackie 1202 made in Woodenville in 1992 and a second one 5 years ago. Love my 1202's. I feedback synths, re-sample, chop and reverse for experimenting and just learned something new here. Thank you for this.
Quality video for getting into NIMB techniques. As others have said, some more unique results can be achieved by putting any sort of effect between the in and out of whatever patch you choose. My other personal favorite thing to do that gave me pretty varied results was actually patching a loop between multiple mixers' ins and outs (basically daisy-chaining multiple mixers together) and twiddling knobs for some interesting cross-pollenation effects. Also very happy to see Toshimaru Nakamura get mentioned here. He was one of the first people I discovered well over a decade ago actually making full compositions with the technique
I Love the sounds you got from the Yamaha MG10Xu -- very Inspirational video.
So cool! It’s like blowing up the smallest signals and making them the stars.
Great video. I have been looking into no input mixing lately. One inexpensive way to go from single side of RCA output is to get RCA to 1/4” TS converter plugs. Then use a double ended stereo RCA cable with two of the converter plugs on one end. Now you can run the stereo RCA Outs to different channels.
Fantastic video idea! Thank you Sarah.
I honestly really like the sound of the Allen & Heath mixer although I can see where it might be a bit less versatile
I agree, great drones.
After watching your first video on this topic, I got really cool results from a Mackie 1402 vlzpro. :)thank you
That’s awesome that Yamaha stuck to the same color scheme with their knobs. My vintage RM800 console has the same green for EQ, red for panning, etc., though it’s much larger! I’ve always found Yamaha to offer amazing value in their music gear, especially used!
Great video on a topic not often discussed!
Fascinating! The Volca Mix sounds interesting and I reckon that’d work extremely well with the Strega in some sort of feedback loop. Bonus of the touch pads to add some element of randomness to the equation
Wow, this is a super interesting approach to making music-loved your presentation of it. Subbed and can't wait to learn and hear more.
Brilliant video! Starting to get back into this recently.
fantastic vid!
I didn’t think I would ever find myself wanting the volca mix but I guess I gotta add that to my list of volcas to invest in!
Also that Allen & Heath mixer was basically a mono synth at certain points here which was crazy!
Great video ! The sounds you get from the Yamaha are amazing !
thank you! I agree - I was super surprised and delighted by those sounds :)
This is so awesome I had no idea mixers could do that. I have the 16 channel variant of the Yamaha mixer you show here in this video. I'm going to have to give this a try and see what kind of sounds I can get. It would be cool to make sound loops of all the sounds to and play them back via midi controller or something like that to come up with a beat and melody using the sounds from this kind of no input mixer or mixing. This is great!!! Thanks for the video this ha sparked interest in me!
That’s really cool! Volca mixer sounded amazing.
I've learned something new again today, thank you so much!
What a treat- thank you!
Love the video. really interesting tests.
Such a fascinating technique. Started working on it intensively during the last 4 years and it still surprises me every time for its versatility and modularity. There is a lot of the results I reached with no input in my channel, if you are curious about it.
I highly recommend Andreij’s work. Some very impressive performances.
@@improziv thank you so much.
pretty interesting, never tried that, but i will...thanks for the idea
This was an interesting test, I was thoroughly surprised by the Volca Mix. I wound up agreeing with your assessment that the Yamaha seemed to be the most diverse for no input purposes. The Allen & Heath sounds like it would be a clean mixer for small home studio recordings, or minimalist stage performances in the traditional sense. Great video as always, Sarah.
Thanks for watching, and for these observations!
Awesome video thanks for sharing.
This is amazing. I never knew this could be done. This is Way Cool, a must try. 🙂
thanks! hope you have fun exploring this!
I love the textures of the mackie, so wild and organic. all of them have super unique characters… the Yamaha was the playground of the bunch. I was surprised by the A&H , such an obedient level of stability, which is a testament to superb engineering for a pure signal… and the quirky korg was like the R2D2 of the bunch 👾 …these are like 4 analog synth engines… I haven’t ventured into this territory yet, I have an old Behringer 6 channel mixer, I’ll soon get brave and jump in the sound pool of ‘NIM’. I would eventually like to to run the NIM signal through midi triggered pitch shifter and audio gate , that enables me to play the NIM as a melodic synth. Thanks so much for your exploration with clarity into the abyss , that is sound. 🔈🔉🔊
@ 15:37 square basslines :-) And the Yamaha MG10 is a treat to work with, memories :-)
The Yamaha was going to be my "winner" as well. Seemed the most musical. In general, it seems like the feature to look for is built-in effects - at least if one wants to stay just inside one "instrument" and be able to color the sound. Would be interested to see how effects loops/send returns play into this...though is that no longer "no input"? Great video. Thank you so much for sharing this. It definitely has me looking at my pile of various mixers with new interest!
Great work. Thanks soooo much ;)
I like the only Mackie VLZ series mixers for no input jams. I like putting a weird esoteric synth like a Rollz in the signal chain. Like send the feedback mix into the Rollz then back to the mixer.
Thank you Sarah for this interesting video. It would be really interesting to see you incorporate effect pedals both into the feedback loops and even on your output,post feedback loops. I believe Toshimaru Nakamura uses a few of the strymon pedals in post chain. But I would interested to see what you put there.
Hi, I'm obsessed with this technique, altough I build and use passive Matrix mixers with pedals this technique requires you to replace channel strips with high gain pedals such as distortion fuzz and overdrive. Id watched a few of Tashimarus early videos, he uses an old battered Mackie and a few pedals in a traditional Boss style enclosure. There was one in particular that seemed to show the gear in a bit more detail. Although it was difficult to read the model of his gear. Any ideas on any of his setup. I think the Mackie was a smaller footprint of the vlz series but very old. I'm sure he's probably replaced it now.
that's what I like about having only ''aux'' outputs on my Soundcraft signature 10, you can do feedback loops easily . But this vid is giving me ideas to integrate with my little Bored Brains patchulator.
once again allen&heath masters of electrical engineering
Nice! I have done this with Bastl Dude and SP404MK2. Adding effects never know what you’ll get.
ah! this would be great with the delay loop effect/technique on the SP! going to try this soon
I see a beautiful 12U modular synth behind your shoulders!
not sure who is more invested in this video, me or my cat. anyways, thanks for the inspiration, knowledge, and noises! i've been playing around with my 12 channel harbinger L1202FX and having a blast with it.
Great video. I just tried no-input mixing for the first time today. I used my A&H Zed10 and found the results interesting. The mixer produces lots of stable tones, but with a lot of coaxing and patience I got some AM, FM and maybe even ring mod sounds. I wondered if the difference with other mixers is the quality of the components.
Awesome! Yeah, the A&H mixer definitely got to some pretty beautiful territory, it's great to hear you were able to get to some interesting sounds. My best guess is that the differences have to do with components used, like you said, and also perhaps the circuit design/layout themselves and the mixer's noise floor... but I'm not an expert! :)
Woah I did this accidentally last night, scared the living crap out of me!
I could see that being alarming, for sure!
Hi Sarah, great video and channel. I’ve been in love with no input since hearing David Sylvian’s “ Blemish” album but if I’m honest it does terrify me a bit. I’ve had an old Yamaha aw16g portastudio for decades and just hadn’t realised it could be used in this way , so decided to try it with with some nice results. I have no idea if I’ll get anything new from the Yamaha mg10XU but based on your reactions I’m going to track one down. I’m trying to make an album with just this , acoustic guitar and voice . Thanks
I don't know how I ended up at your video, but I'm glad I did. It was so exciting and fun to see such a utilitarian piece of equipment make the most interesting and wild sounds. It really is a wonderful reminder to see even the boring gear and stuff we have with an experimental eye. Thanks for opening me up to a brand new way of doing things!
I picked up a 30€ second hand InterM from the 70s and it has an awesome deep analog sound, the only thing that is a bit of a pity is that with the volume all the way up percussive pulses are still quite fast.
Really inspiring stuff. Have you tried to wire them all to each other and see what happens then?
Thanks for this!
I'm in a newly budding metal band and we're trying to experiment with no input mixing to make ambience and some unique sounds to sample and add to an album we're writing. We saw that Yamaha you were using at our local music shop but weren't sure what we should go with or if it really matters what you pick up to do this stuff, def picking up that Yamaha though.
Cheers!
Awesome! I hope you have fun with it :)
There really isn’t a specific set of things that are better than other with this so it’s all about exploring and finding your preferences. You might find the mixer and fx pedal video I made helpful as well if you want to add in other things to process the sound.
Really great technique! I made similar things with patching fx send to input with different pedals. And another interesting thing is to connect bluetooth system per app and configure mic and outs to get non linear delay (in the car for ex)
Hm, I have an idea to check this tech on digital mixer, I have 1010 bluebox…
Hi Elstasow. How did no input mixing work for you on a digital mixer? I guess there is not so much internal noise to use as on an analog mixer, so I am not sure it works, and now I need to buy onemyself, so would like to know.
Nice one as always ! I have an old Teisco MX-600 with a built in spring reverb is killer for this as it has four indentical output, perfect to put pedals in the middle for even more crazy noises. I'm pretty sure those technic would not work well with super high end mixer, curious to try with my Studer one of this day.
Built-in spring reverb 🤤 would love to have that.
Very interesting 🔝
thanks!
@@sarahbellereid 🎶🤝🎶
Hi Sarah, first off, thank you for these comparisons, I've been wondering about mixer differences for a while. Very cool to see that mixers are indeed all different.
An aspect that really sparked my curiosity is how you did the entire, diverse Yamaha MG10Xu demo without going into the red. It's like the channels peak, but not the main out?? I've *never* seen that before in a NIMB setting, all the other mixers I've seen and used (including my own casual Behringer Xenyx 802) go hot really easily. Do you have any theories? It didn't look like the compressor was active. Seems like the Yamaha has a strange advantage I hadn't anticipated and I now I kind of want one!
It's amazing... I discovered this techniques a few days ago related to harsh noise, and now I am after a mixer... Basically you try to get complex feedbacks trying different connections of different outputs and inputs, right?
Thanks to you i started no input mixing recently, and even with the used Behringer mixer i got for 30 bucks I'm having a blast! I got a small question though: is there any reason why you use stereo patch cables as opposed to mono? So far I've been using guitar patch cables as i have a lot of those anyways (and i like to use some pedals in the chain sometimes), but i was wondering if there is a particular benefit to stereo cables. Anyways, really great video!
I've been doing this since high school in the late-'80s; initially with an old Peavey keyboard amp and a DJ mixer ... Didn't know it was actually a "thing" (or technique) now. So freakin' rad ... Lately, I've been taking my effect-pedals chain and looping that into this cheap-o Realistic DJ mixer - then into my Yamaha MG10XU ... #DroneOn! #danielfuzztone
I liked the Yamaha’s tone
That volca mixer was a nifty discovery!
Pros and cons of analog vs digital mixers?
What's the framed picture of the modules behind you? It looks interesting.
Great video btw. I love using feedback in my patches!
Zedi10's isolated cards might be the challenge. A good basic mixer for those on a budget. EM12 works well.
from my experience with zeroinput mixing, the cheaper the mixer the better
a big part of what gives a mixer character for no-input, is inaccuracies in the circuit
pricier mixers will tend to be more stable and thus produce more static and "boring" tones
where cheaper mixers will be chaotic and fun/wild. It all depends on tastes ofcourse
pedals can go a long way ofcourse, but also mixers with fx sections give a wild array of extra tones to play with
great video
Hi Sarah! First of all, thanks for this video, it helps me a lot in order to have some parameters to use in choosing the right mixer for me. I have a question, perhaps quite basic: I found lately a way to use a chain of pedals as "no input pedals", with sonic results similar to some of the mixers. What I'm wondering is if it's possible to use a mixer in no-input mode while at the same time feeding another channel into it from the pedals, and have 2 parallel no input devices running through the same mixer. Would they necessarily affect each other? Thanks again!!
Aaahhhhhhhhh. What happened to time????? I swear I was just going to sit down for a couple of minutes to try this, and now I should have gone to bed hours ago!!!!!!!
Great vid, thank you. Psyched that “my” mixer won, lol. I use it as an interface basically without a proper sound card so I’m curious how to monitor out through headphones and create the feedback loop. Maybe need to get an interface into the chain and monitor from there?
Definitely put something to limit the signal between your mixer and speakers.
Great video! I'm so scared of buying mixers for this because 3 very cheap Behringer mixers died on me pretty quickly, and once I bought a Mackie and it ran incredibly hot to the point I felt it was going to blow up or something, that thing could boil water I swear hahahahaha
Might give in eventually and try again with a Yamaha mixer. I've always trusted that brand. Or maybe just do this with guitar pedals
Heat obviously means the electronics are being pushed past their intended purpose and laboring to extremes. I do live audio/sound reinforcement in my work, so seeing the VU meters beyond pegged into the red and overdriven is difficult to watch, regardless of the unique sounds it may achieve. It's best to tread this endeavor with a lot of caution, IMO. Especially if using mixers you can't afford to fry. I agree with you on using guitar pedals. They are like little synths!
this is something we did back in college in the studio class, cool to see someone try multiple different units for different results
also i love the 4 row eurorack, i need to build a big case of my own because i have outgrown my current modules and i hate having to swap back and forth
Damned. I wanted to sell that noisy Volca Mix, only good as a power source for other Volca’s. Now I need three more.😎
Btw, The Tuesday Night Machines has got a nice yt-tutorial with two mixers.
Great video, the patch cables are mono or stereo, does it matter?
18:34 i hope you sampled this part for a bass patch that sounded nasty
I have a circa 1970 Tandy corporation dj mixer with 1/4" and rca and also turntable ins . It has headphone out (with cue) and main , and control room out . Old noisy faders . I think I might see what it will do . Have you ever used a DJ mixer for no-input ?
I tried this with my PreSonus StudioLive 16 track digital mixer/audio interface and only got one tone. I couldn't do much with it. Would love a tutorial on how to get that first sound consistently out of a mixer, or, if it is only specific to that mixer, how to find more sounds! Thank you for this info!
Can you even do this on a digital mixer? I guess there is not that much internal noise to use as a source?
How do you determine when and where to patch with the TS or TRS cables?
Which output you prefer to grab the sound?! Make it any diffrent if i use the master-out, the booth-out or the headphone-out? Ask cause i use the headphone-output to grab the sound out of my reloop scratch pro dj-battlemixer i use for N.I.M.B. technique. ...use the headphone-out cause it's on frontside and all other in's and out's are on the back.
Hey Sarah, I just got into no-input mixing and was wondering if you had any advice for mastering the final product! I’ve done some gain staging but that’s about it
Cool.
this is really cool, I'm curious though if you can mix in a drum loop or synth sequence in there mixed in with no input? have you ever tryied that.. i dont know why it sketches me out to do this, anyway I have to try it out.. great video by the way, really neat to see how all these mixers have very different voices..
I have experimented with adding a synth into the feedback loop using a benjolin - I believe there's a video somewhere on my channel from a while back with a little improvisation using that setup. Haven't tried with a drum loop but that could be cool too!
@@sarahbellereid Cool I'll check it out, thank you
Nice comparison! One question: which limiter do you use or would you recommend to do this "in a safe way"?
Thanks! I shared a few links in the description to different limiter options, but one good one is the FMR RNLA
Wish I’d seen this before I bought my Strega. This would have been a cheaper option! 😂
Haha , the sonic witch is wild .
wild hhahahhaha
Wow this is awesome!
I made a lot of no input mixer experiments too and I just love Bastl Dude mixer so much!
Noise = Subscribed!
Could you patch the korg into the Yamaha? That would be cool!
Baddass #Baddass #Dawless #MusicProduction
Hi sarah, i just a beginner for this no input mixer idea. I tried with yamaha MG16XU. And i got peaking every channel and also at the main out (when i press the PFL button). Althougt i make the lowest gain knob. Is that dangerous for mu mixer? And may u suggest the solution for not peaking? Thanks sarah
They should have named it Volca Arcade and marketed it as such. Would own it already 😂
Volca MIX: 3 channels, not four, unfortunately.
I particularily enjoyed this section.
I saw Toshimaru Nakamura doing no input mixer feedback in the 90's and he had quite a large 16 channel mixer but was only using a few channels at one end. I assume he wanted something with plenty of EQ and aux send options which weren't so common on small mixers at the time
Interesting! I'd love to see Nakamura perform on NIMB live.
When I played a festival with him a few years back he told me he has only gone through two mackie mixers since he first developed the art form in the 90’s. His original one didn’t die but he wanted to stop traveling with it.
@@sarahbellereid opened for him once and he said he started as guitarist so he's big into pedals and compression in his setups
Why not getting into account a Behringer Xenyx X1622USB?
do you have any recommendations for patch cables? I want some that are similar to what you use here as opposed to the stiffer short ones i have at the moment.
I linked a couple options in the description of this video to the ones I use!
I'm surprised there wasn't a Behringer in there. They're crazy common among no-input artists.
Sarah, this is a cool demo, but spending hundreds of dollars on a newly made mixer with only a few outputs? For NIM purposes I would advise anyone to go with a used 70s-10s mixer off local classifieds. Get one with 5 stereo outputs, integrated stereo eqs, possibly analogue delay for ~60 bucks.