Can 8 12/2 Romex be Put in One Multi-Cable Stacker by NEC?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ค. 2024
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Holy Cow, talk about video-on-demand! Thanks!
Why, do you have a load center install coming up?
I love the focused simplicity of his videos and wouldn't change a thing. That said, this topic is a perfect place to point out that more than two cables under a staple is against code. Also, running cables in parallel on a 2x4 will most of the time violate the 1 1/4" rule. (Sometimes there is not a finished surface on the backside of the 2x4 and another run of cable is not a violation.)
Enjoy seeing these new products as well as a refresher on checking to see if it meets NEC.
I'm learning too from making the videos. :)
Lol! I knew it would be okay and legal before I even watched the video...all of that 12/2 cable looked so pretty and neat in that contraption everything seemed right with the world for a moment!
I'm so happy you're back on TH-cam and that I had the chance to resubscibe. Thanks for what you do!
Welcome back to Sparky Channel! Yay!!!
Interesting cable fixings . Cool video
Thanks Ian!
When I built my home I installed 40 breakers...this product would have saved me tons of trouble. On the interior Distribution Panel-wall I used 2 X 6 top and bottom plates with 2 X 4 studs turned sideways creating a double-sided wall with a space between so that I could distribute cables from the Panel with every wire being 1 1/2" from the wall exterior. The mistake I made was not staggering opposing studs. Stapling all those wires with studs back-to-back was a chore. The weakness of my framing of that wall was there's no way to install fire-blocking. Why 40 Breakers you ask? I took the Electrician's Bible at it's word plus I put no lights on circuits with outlets (4 Lighting Circuits). I put no more than 10 outlets on any Breaker and each bathroom had a dedicated circuit. My appliance-circuits had no more than 3 outlets, fridge had a dedicated circuit, each bedroom (4) had one dedicated circuit and there were a couple circuits dedicated to computers, etc. and 2 exterior outlet-circuits. In defense of my overkill, I spent 34 years as a Union Electrician.
I started useing these, i now keep a case of them in my truck. Its 100% legal, its a way of fastening. I do bathroom remodels and bathrooms often have BIG boxes with a ton of wires. these are fast and keeps the 2x4 wall from having a LOT of work
"Flat cables may not be stapled on edge" - what kind of sick twisted person was out there doing this that made them make this rule!?
Many of the rules were preemptive in nature
You are video makes it easy to understand and also makes my job easier to work.
Thank you.
My pleasure Tommy!
This one of the best products to come out for residential wiring in a long time, I just love these. I wish they would come out with something similar that is rated for MC/AC cable. I really like how these isolate the cables away from the studs/ framing members and place them in their own plane. Great product. Great video too.
They have a similar product called CJ-7 which is made by caddy. Also known as Colorado Jims. They are very handy
@@timothyjewett625 thanks ! I am getting that right now👍
@@timothyjewett625 them multi tap bat wings?
Appreciate your insight brother
This is exactly what I was looking for to improve cable management in an upcoming project. I HATE messy cables.
I used these at work. They are good 👍 makes work faster
Thanks Damian!
Cool product, thanks Bill😊
Thanks Ted!
Years ago I used something similar called stack it.
I'm a homeowner who built an addition.
The inspector was impressed. Said he doesn't see electricians use those.
In fact, he said I did a better job than most electricians.
Pays to study
some electical shops would rather spend $5.00 of time than use a 50 cent part.
yeah, i remember using those when i helped wire houses back in the late 90's to early 2000's.
I like them because they're very functional and make a nice neat job.
Yes, I think they have their place and they can keep cables neat and organized. Thanks Tim!
Cool video. I learned about a new product I didn't know about before. Thanks for the info and thanks for sharing. Take care and God Bless.
They say that any day you learn something is a good day! :) Thanks!
Legal and provides a neat job
Thanks!
Drywallers love more bumps on the stud,love the show sparky
Never understood electricians inability to see past their own trade. Also they never pick up after themselves fuckers.....
Thanks for your videos
My pleasure!
Usually that many cables are only present above or below a panel. Rarely would a product such as this be needed. I like to install 2 horizontal blocks above and below the panel for stapling. There's never a shortage of 2x4 scrap lying around most job sites that ends-up at the dump anyway, and it doesn't cost anything. I try very hard every day to cut plastic out of my life. This is unfortunately impossible, but I can do little things like use scrap wood versus buying plastic to cut down on our plastic problem. Love your videos and glad that you are doing them.
Excellent work Jason!
Sound like you dont wire up many 3 gang switch boxes.
Very nice! Thanks
Welcome!
I love those straps but never seen one with the clip in the back. Cool!
Home depot has these particular ones.
Yes, I prefer the ones with the clips.
Great video
Thanks Leo!
That's the first time I've ever seen one of those looks very useful it makes the job very neat I'm an industrial electrician and I don't usually use Romex that's what we call housewire in Canada
Thanks!
Ok iam gonna help you ..do not put the outside light above the door ..use coach lights on the side
I like how these are daily information/quizzes, but my attention span is not this long
OK, I'll try to get right to the point with them, thanks!
Can we get a video on how many wires can go through each hole in a 2x4, 2x6, etc. If the hole is 1/2", 3/4", etc.? Love the info 😀
In Canada its a total of 3 cables ..basically because of wire abrasion
@@Jason_Canada no mater the size of the wood?
@@Abcdefghi4093 i believe you mean hole size and your correct
@@Jason_Canada by curiosity what article of the CEC talk about that? Thanks!
I was told by my inspector is the hole can't be filled more then 40% with wire. I used 7/8 holes in my 2x4 and was allowed (2) 12/2 romex thru each hole. Size of the board doesn't really matter. It's the size of the hole. The 40% rule...
Yes
Ding, Ding, Ding.... We have a winner.
Yay!!!
I do enjoy these videos but I think you should do an in depth install of the generac generators with ats. It would pull in a lot of views.
Good idea, thanks!
I think these are reasonable. Sometimes when wiring a house with 2x4 interior framing it's really difficult to get all the switch legs amd power in and out down to the 4 gang box even 2 stacked together neatly on the stud it's too close to the sides of the studs. I think these have their place just don't use them for everything.
The NEC has rules about adjacent cables over 2 feet being derated in ampacity.
Code?
@@simmcowaPang122 . I do think it is in the NEC
I would have to dig out my code book. But look up about derating of cables run close to each other.
Thanks for this video Bill.. Normally I would not feel comfortable as an Electrical Inspector and Instructor with this since as the cables go up through the top plate, some electricians would drill out a single large hole and run all 8 cables through it, once they put in the fire stop, 334.80 kicks in which says that Table 310.15(B)(3)(a) applies and now we have an ampacity adjustment “derate” based on 16 current carrying conductors which is a 50 percent reduction from the 90 degree column of table 310.15(B)16 in the 2017 code and table 310.16 in the 2020 code which brings us down to a maximum OCPD of 15 amps which might be ok depending on what they are feeding and we also need to know what continuous loads there are which will require those portions to be subject to 125 percent of the continuous load plus 100 percent of the non-continuous loads on the respective branch circuits. What happens if they spray insulation in that cavity and fully encapsulate those bundled conductors? Sometimes, these fancy gadgets can get the electricians in trouble, I think it’s best for the electrician to always separate the NM-B cable and assume that it will be encapsulated in foam insulation or fire stop so that they have nothing to worry about. Again thanks Bill for your great videos.
Thanks!
number of wires in the support is totally different from number of wires through a hole. that sprayfoam they put in the holes is a wire killer.
Good morning Sparky. I was betting that the Gardner Bender product if properly placed on the stud was ok. Good company with a reputation of making good reliable products and tools that make electricians lives easier. Good video.
Well I did stretch their UL listing to the limit. I don't think I would put 8 12/2 in the device in actual practice but it's good to know that I can if I have to.
@@SparkyChannel Agree, really eight together is too much unless absolutely no other way but if they have to be close neatly organized is best.
actually, I've always found GB products to be slightly less efficient to use than other brands.
It better be cause I just done it last week
I have never seen anything like this in the UK; I thought I was ahead of the curve with my dewalt stapler
I love my DeWalt cable stapler!
Wild Bill , has any of the people who wrote the NEC Code ever worked out in the field ??? Lol ... I'M glad some body like yourself can understand it ... And thanks for sharing your knowledge with us ...
I really doubt it!!! LOL, funny question! Thanks Eddy!
Written by engineers for engineers.
Used by electricians and inspectors.
Fully understood by no single person.
False....alot of us on CMP Panels are Master Electrcians and have worked in the field for decades. Also, the NEC changes based on "PUBLIC INPUTS" by individuals and not simply us sitting at a table thinking of things to add. This shows folks have no clue what goes into the development of the NEC.
@@MasterTheNEC Excellent points
If Bill dont know it ..I do willing too help who ever I can
I take the quiz. It is legal as all 8 romex are secured at the required intervals. The inset gives them the protection from screws and nails. It is like when you run a single romex and secure it to the middle of the stud.
Thanks!
what I didn't guess was that it could only accommodate two 3 conductor cables.
yes its legal
So flat 12/3 are not shown on the package as being allowed. ???
Don't run into that many very often, great video. Hey Bill can you do a video on use of deox? I have heard it is not needed with today's aluminum chemistry. I called and talked to a specialist at Eaton, and they said they do not instruct to use it on their breakers or terminals in the load centers.
Interesting, thanks!
I saw that video, too. use the deox. the next guy will be much less likely to curse you.
My OCD'ness approves of that level of cable management.
Jurisdictions often have extra rules. In our area, these are not allowed to be used to maximum capacity because our inspectors say it violates the NEC code concerning bundling of cables.
Thanks Guy!
Can't stand inspectors like that.
Inspectors often aren’t knowledgeable enough about their own jurisdictional code to be qualified to inspect in their jurisdiction.
Your inspectors really need to go to school
Anything over 9 current carring conductors must be deratrd. That's no more then 4 Rome. Even in conduit no matert the size same rule applies no more then 9 current carring conductors before derating
IMHO there seems to be a conflict between what the NEC says and what the manufacturer's document states. Some here say that the cables are being bundled, but if installed according to the manufacturers instructions, there are slight air gaps between the cables, so, is this installation truly bundling? The NEC says that if you follow the manufacturers installation instructions, it should pass code.
Those should be code. They make the wiring look pretty
Good morning Dave! Yes, they look quite organized.
I’m having a hard time referencing how many NM-B sheathed cables (12/2&3w/gr) I can run through a 3/4” hole? Many channels say 2-3, but there’s a difference between 2&3! In my particular case I can easily pull (2)12/2w/gr & (1)12/3w/gr through a 3/4” hole inside the wall up through the ceiling going into the attic,but should I? Thanks for any help you can lend.
And isn’t that much better? Use them anywhere on walls and ceiling joist. I’m with ya Bill👍
Sounds good, thanks!
Just an FYI the Amazon website and at 3:51 show figure 2, don't follow this, if you want to maintain your CATx rating. You never run communications/data and power cables parallel next to each other. Always space apart and if you must cross a data cable with power always do it at right angles only. NEC specifies (I don't recall the section) a minimum of 8" separation between UTP and power cables and then 2" between STP and power cables. Also considering 4:09 that RG6 (6.85mm) has a larger diameter than RG59 (6.15mm) I am not sure how that is possible?
First, this isn’t labeled for use with CAT-X, only NM-B and RG6/RG59.
Yes, RG6 is thicker than RG59...must be a typo. Doesn’t surprise me considering it’s probably made in china
Pardon the question, but as “legal” as this application might be, is it really a good idea to stack that many NM cables that closely together? Sure they’re all flat, and looks like a very convenient and quicker installation than routing them side by side but what about capacitive or inductive coupling, or the joy in isolating and single one of those cables should the need ever arise? If you need that many cables in a wire chase, there’s always a stud or joist on the other side of the cavity,
Sure I use them..I don't like them but works well
OK, thanks!
They need to update the 14-3 and 12-3. It also comes in a flat cable
Agreed, also I much prefer the 3M stackers over these. I find them sturdier and quicker
Those drywall guys love this they will screw them right through
That would be a problem.
@@SparkyChannel best is never stack wires like that. Bigger target for dummies
Cool concept but I am curious to see the state of the holders in 10 - 15 years. Will the snap hold still hold or will it crumble? Also the NEC LOVES run on sentences lol
plastic seems to hold up really well if there isn't drastic temperature changes or UV light involved so possibly? I guess we'll see in time.
DOPE CHANNEL
Thanks!
Sparky great videos I'm learning a lot .lm hoping you will help me out. Backhoe hit a underground 12_2 wire out to my chicken coop and it was repaired but a lot of ground water in hole . I like to make sure repair was done well and not leaking stray current into ground my electric those still work in coop .but I'm worry please tell me how to check for this or direct me to video . BEST REGARDS
Does such a construction have an impact on the current rating of the cable? Here in Germany it does. The fuse rating of a circuit depends on the way the cable is installed, and how many cables are in the range and if they have direct contact or a spacing in between them of the size of the outer diameter of the cable (our cables are mostly round). It's about heat dissipation and to prevent that the conductor temperature gets above 70°C (158°F). That's the critical temperature for PVC insulation, at that temperature it starts to degrade, and the effect is cummulative. Meaning the insulation becomes more and more damaged with every overload, until it completely fails.
The way cables are installed depends on: Wall thermally insulated, cable embedded into plaster, buried into the ground, hanging in the air, installed in cable trays, surface mounted (wall or ceiling), cable trench, hanging outdoor on a supporting cable. It's also of interest if it's a single- or a three-phase circuit.
Found this one on a british site, we use the same system:
www.voltimum.co.uk/sites/www.voltimum.co.uk/files/fields/attachment_file/gb/others/T/2008121096912008120444055868.pdf
But three-phase is uncommon in british residential installations. So they didn't cover it in the PDF. The BS 7671 is the regulation for electrical installations, so that's their NEC.
I got a slide rule for the different methods, numbers of cables next to each other, and wire sizes. So I can read the maximum rating of the breaker. Also got one for voltage drop, depending on cable length, rating of the breaker and the operating current, this is for designing a circuit and to see how long can that cable be and of which size and get an acceptable voltage drop that's not too high. Or should I better install one size larger to keep the voltage drop lower at the same length of cable?
We pretty much have the same rules here in the use for THHN-2 wire and others thats aren’t nm cable. When you start to use THHN-2 you have to consider bundling, voltage drop, derating for heat in we’re the pipe is located what kind of pipe used and how many conductors in the pipe. Anything over 3 current carrying had to get derated. In residential I noticed it’s all up to the inspectors if they are lenient on using these listed products by adding all the cables together, or the inspector would just say it’s not allowed only can have 3 current carrying conductors and need to add another support.
Basically in residential it’s a little easier to do this
Hi M. Sparky...Still one question about this product. How can you install this device if you want your cables going cross floor joist if you dont want to drill through all of them, under second floor and over suspended sealing for example ?
A different product made by rack a tiers exists for the purpose you've outlined. It's just a plastic deal with like 8 holes in it for supporting your home runs across joists
what about running nm cable in the attic on ceiling joist for nec 2020 code? Do you have to staple or not?
Now you need to make a video that explains how the WAGO lever nuts meet code for the real stubborn wire nut loving electricians.
Excellent suggestion, thanks!
Please!!!!!!!!!
I'm glad you specified lever nut. Wago also makes push in connectors which I'm not a fan of but the lever nuts are good.
It is very legal
Can I email a picture to you? I need to know if the way this cable stacker is used is legal. Also, I only have like 4wires to run. Do I stack all 4 in one slot or put 1 cable per slot? This seems like overkill for me. Also, I thought the point was to secure the cable. If I only have 4 it's going to fit in there very loosely. Which I have no problem with if it's legal. I hate for the wires to fit snug because if you need more wires pulled out a little in the future you cant do it. I learned from a guy to make a roll or loop of wire in the wall after the staple exactly for that purpose. Per your channel though from what I have gathered is that its ok to loop after the staple so long as the loop of wire doesnt exceed 14inches in length. correct?
My question is, how does this compare to bundling? And the NEC rule on bundling?
The rule is where you do not maintain spacing. If you use these devices as listed you are maintaining spacing. The NEC doesn't give a "value" for what is considered enough spacing...just demands that you maintain it or otherwise you will have to make adjustments accordingly. Until a separation, value is listed in the code (becareful of what you ask for) this will be how the inspectors should rule if they adhere to the NEC.
I was surprised to see the 12/3 and 14/3 nm cable was reduced to 2 slots and not able to use all 4 slots. Does not make logical sense to me. Must be some heat rating calc. Overkill.
Can these be used for network cables? I see it says coaxial but do t see anything for network.
Yes, they can be used to organize network cables as well.
I guess right ✅️
Rev up your Romex!
haha! foreal
If it fits it ships
LOL!
The code says when more then 3 conductors (not counting neutrals) are bundled together for more then 24” then you must derate. are you saying these clips keep the pairs of cables separated with the plastic enough to allow you to use them at their full rating? or derate the whole bundle?
Think bundling only comes into play when running wires for more then 24". Here is a good video that touches on that th-cam.com/video/HTvaemH1hic/w-d-xo.html
Also, for NM cable specifically you are allowed to use the 90 C rating for ampacity when derating. Using that method you are still over 20A ampacity until you exceed four 12/2 cables bundled together through insulation. See 334.80. The code is somewhat unclear on derating NM bundles in open air, but I think it would default to the requirements of 310.15(C).
Can the edge tab be trimmed off so it can sit flush on the midpoint of a floor joust, and do they meet code for cable securement within the required distance of the panel?
They meet code if you follow the labeling and instructions. You would need to ask your inspector if you could modify them like that. I don't think it would be any problem.
@@SparkyChannel
And it is not a problem. They can be modified to sit flush, and they meet code for cable securement close to the panel as per my inspector. Thanks for the response.
You said four and a half feet according to code how far apart are you putting these wire holders?
Less than that. WAY less. I usually use three for a switch box if the ceilings are under 10 ft.
Can't find anything in NEC that would stop me from using these on a wooden raceway put across floor joists in a unfinished basement. Any thoughts?
Technically, you are probably right, you could, but the inspector probably wouldn't like it. If you are using a running board anyway, just make it wide enough to staple all your runs to it.
the two cables per slot can actualy be fitted side by side and not jamed ontop of each other to allow even more space .
Only if you can still achieve that 1 1/4" requirement. Not sure what this brands measurement for the front face of the wire gap is but I would hope it's not under that and you are right. I think he stacked them this way to either keep that distance or to make the video questionable.
@@TheRynovisionit’s an 1 1/4 automatically off the front and the back of a 2x4 stud. Front side or back side. They are designed to go inside a 2x4 wall cavity and maintain 1 1/4 on both sides. It not only states this in the video, but would never be put to market if it wasn’t . Those cables can be installed side by side within the space. All you have to do is look at the clip and common sense takes it from there.
I was going to say the same thing. That's how I've always done it. I've never stacked them like that.
Any cable derating needed since minimum cable spacing of one cable diameter is not met?
No its been approved for no de rating.
@@thomasmarable6818 Really? Where could I get info on this?
In this example, we see eight (8) 12-2 NM-B cables bundled together with no spacing exceeding a length of 24 inches. That's 16 current carrying conductors. Table 310.15(C)(1) says 10-20 current carrying conductors must be derated by 50%. According to Table 310.16, #12 THHN conductors (NM-B) have an ampacity of 30A. 50% of 30A is 15A. It's possible that not all of those conductors can be energized simultaneously - we don't know by this example. But it would be safe to say at least 10 conductors (62.5%) in this group would be able to be simultaneously energized, which would still require a 50% derating.
Isn't THHN and Table 310.15 and 310.16 for number of conductors in a conduit/cable? There, the heat from so many conductors has to dissipate in the conduit. But this shows separate NM-B cables clearly spread out more than 16 conductors in a conduit so not sure that derating applies. These are eight separate cables and are even spaced in pairs of two with free air between them.
@@mikefochtman7164 Refer to 334.80.. Ampacity. I'd argue there is no need for derating as this section is only in relation to NM flat cable
Additionaly...if any insulation, even sound batting is installed after the supporting...then derating is needed
scotty kilmer parody while do electrician work
LOL!
Lol I was just thinking he sounds just like him
Cringe. One is not knowledgeable while the other is.
Dang some scotty fans in that house.🇺🇸
I'm in canada and haven't checked the code book buy I'm thinking there may be an issue with hotspots
There's not. The way he stacked them, I might agree with you, but that's not how they usually get used. They fit two side by side in one slot, eliminating the pinch where it would get hot.
Can these cable stackers be used as a means to secure within 12 inches of entering an electrical panel. Do they have to be attached to a stud or can they be attached to a piece of plywood like what your panel box is connected too. Thanks in advance
you can nail them to plywood around your panel anywhere that you would staple the wires
Yes
How do you pass the 8 cables through the bottom and top plates? Would it be four holes or one large hole?
4 holes, 2 each hole.
@Sparky Channel 2 holes 4 each hole would work as well correct?
@@shawnshurtz9147 Only if you drill bigger holes. You can drill 1" 1/8" inch holes in a 2x6 wall and well exceed the 'hole to edge' spacing and run four conductors in it.
Most products you show in you use in your demo are all OK to use usually in never put anything what's not being me still the answers usually yet ☃️🎄🍻🍺🎄☃️
That's true but I'm going to trick you guys on at least one of these. I'll set up one of these scenarios and then go to the code and it's going to flunk. Just to keep everyone honest. :) ☃️🎄🍻🍺🎄☃️
I assumed that no one would invest in making and selling them if they were against code to use.
Thanks!
You would be surprised!
What about grouping factor and consideration for the disipitation of heat generated by the load. With these cables grouped tightly like this surely this could be a fire hazzard?
With them all traveling in the same direction heat build up should be minimal
Yes and no, Keep in mined they have to be strapped properly
Great 👍 información but is it works in Illinois
I don't know, Chicago is tougher than other places in the US.
A lot of areas in illa-no-toys you can't use nm-b Romex all has to be in conduit
I see you used both the nail and screw to mount the one in your example. Actually the nail is for wood studs and the screw is for metal studs. No need to use both according to instructions.
Thanks!
For what I read screw is for either. If it's near a corner, probably good idea to use both to prevent twisting.
Yes with de rating
With de rating still can be use on 20 amp circuit
@@thomasmarable6818 20A also in 14G wire?
NEC says if done for more than 24" it's bundling and you would have to derate the conductors.
I agree. It's totally legal to install them like this, but the inspectors in our area will require you to derate the ampacity of the cables if there are more than nine current carrying conductors in a bundle of 24"+, and they consider this type of thing to be bundling.
@@tysonbrown249 Can you pass more then 10 or more conductors through a single hole without de-rating? I assume that as long as you fan out after/before the hole you are within the 24" rule.
So you have to put them on a 15 amp breaker?
What if you have a mix of 14/2 and 14/3 leaving a 4 gang box for example? How many then?
14-3 are flat cable. They are not made the same as they used to be. Same with 12-3, it is now flat cable.
I usually try to give a 14-3 its own space, but if that isn't possible for some reason, I've put a 14-2 and 14-3 in one space and haven't ever had an inspector call me out on it.
1:13 “do you think this is legal?”
I don’t care if it’s legal, but I doubt it’d be in the electrical supply store if it wasn’t
Too bad the instructions where so specific with coax. Technically you can use it for 75 ohm RG59 coax used for old school networks and cable TV, but not the slightly smaller 50 ohm RG58 coax used for radio communications.
5:04 wait a second, what about NM-B flat 12-3? Are you just just not supposed to use flat 12-3 or 14-3 cable with these?
Flat 12/3 and 14/3? Never seen that before.
@@mr.3phase228 The new stuff is flat but it's wider not sure it would fit those.
@@mr.3phase228 Romex brand, 12-3 with ground is flat and wider, like steven said. Not sure of any other brands though. I know it's been like this several years though, at least the Romex brand.
@@glasshalfempty1984 I use romex brand nm cable, its NM-D so maybe that's why, or its a Canadian thing idk, pipe is better anyway
@@mr.3phase228 ah, I'm not familiar with NMD but I think it is a Canadian thing so that might be why. Interesting! I'll have to look more into that later.
320.15(B)(3)(a) 10 current carrying conductors in a bundle (which this most certainly is) require a 50% derating or adjustment
Thanks!
@@SparkyChannel If its more than 2 feet than derating applies?
@@algolove185 So does that allow more then 10 carrying conductors to be bundled through a hole in a joist? if they fan out again?
Article 320 is Armored Cable.
Csn I wire my entire house with emt inside the walls like a school or a hospital ?
Yes. My home in Minnesota is wired like that.
Sounds unnecessary expensive
So these are not allowed with 12/3 or 10/3?
Look at the 4:14 mark yes they are aloud and 12/3 and 14/3 are also no longer round they are flat like 12/2 & 14/2
I don't see 12/3 flat either. I see 12/3 round, but only 2 are allowed. Strange??
I'd worry about heat build up. If there was a gap between each conductor similar to spark plug wires in a car.
I would too. I was just showing what is code. You can always exceed code.
@@SparkyChannel everybody talk heat what heat put the full 20 amps on for 3 hours on all cables and measure the heat, I bet it wont be anywhere near danger zone, plus most likely never will the circuit exceed 13 to 15 amps over along period of time. People need to go to classes and learn how electricity really works.
@LabRat Knatz I was talking about the device in hand the derating is not necessary fir what was shown in the video. As far as de-rating goes most electricain do not know how to do it. And yes we do put full loads on wires and cables and measure the heat in our classes, thats how I know when installed correctly it not a problem.
Heat build up?
Yea that's nice but past one or two of these they will branch off to their separate destinations. Looks really need if you want it to look like a data center.
Thanks!
The coaxial rating is weird. RG-6 is larger diameter then RG-59. So how do they allow more of the larger cable then the smaller one? Maybe placement ??
Wait you did derate for bundling more than 4 correct.
Yes, that's correct.
How many amps does the cable need to be derated?
@@SparkyChannelI’ve been struggling for this for years . In this instance why would you need to derate ? 310 says that current carrying conductors more than 24 inches need to be derated when together . But I feel like in this instance the wires are together for such a small portion …. Do you take it for the whole run ? I feel like it’s the same when you pull multiple wires in a stud hole.? There’s nothing that says otherwise though 😮losing my mind lol. Our inspectors allow us to zip tie throughout our runs to clean them up . Often at times we have tons of wires together .
@@SparkyChannel It doesn’t look like anybody responds here but I’ll ask anyway. Do multiple NM cables used as home runs using cable stackers, rated to hold up to 8 number 12 per manufacturer specification, have to be derated?? It says right on the package 8 number 12 and 8 number 14. Length of run is not specified, but it’s over 24 inches. Same applies for wall cavities that are insulated. Code says you can go my manufacturer specs. If I read the code right, nm cable rated at 90c is already derated based on amperage in the 60c column. 20 amp max number 12 and 15 amp max number 14. If that is true, 8 home runs could safely be used in a cable stack.
@@Californians_go_home The NEC would probably cop out to the AHJ if you actually asked them this question. Realistically, you just sort it out in the load calculation, and almost none of your conductors will be running more 80% their rating. So, 16A on a #12 and 12A on a#14. I've seen a lot of talk about cables heating up because of bundling, but I've never really seen it happen. And I've checked my own work too, because I wanted to know if it was true or not. If an inspector tried to call you out on it, I would point to the UL listing stamp on the bag and the specifications they give you. The manufacturers would have to put any de-rating spec on the package to get the UL listing.
Do they have one made for 12/3 so you can get more than 2 on one strap?
I used them before yea you can use 12/3
And 10/2
He's asking if there's a product listed to support more than 2 12/3s. Look into Erico "CADDY" CJs or "Colorodo Jims" they can support up to 6 10/3s to wood stud, 4 to metal stud, and can even do MC and AC cable. If you've got more than that, you ca use Caddy "gun brackets" and space them across the bay. The concern is wire bundling. You dont want to group too many cables together in a single bundle.
I would just use my new found method thx to (electrician u) use staples and tiewraps.
Thank you everyone for the info! Love learning new tips and tricks for our trade!
If you went more than 10' would you have to derate? (More than 3 CCC)
no, derating only applies to wires in a cable, conduit or raceway!
@@jsncrso And bundles.
@@sylvesterstewart868 yes, but there are spacers in these clips so they are not classified as a bundle
@@jsncrso The code isn't clear on on it but I guess it makes sense if everything at either end is right.
@@sylvesterstewart868 The code says to follow the UL listing of the product. Separated wires are not considered a bundle
Hi Bill
Does bathroom outlet need afci breaker?
Yes. Practically all single phase 120v 15A & 20A in dwelling units require AFCI protection.
NEC 210.12
No bathrooms do not need afci protection
@@PepperStone3 According to nec 210.12 bathrooms are one of the few areas that do not need afci protection
It's best that I don't give verbal answers to such questions. I'll have to make a video about it and back it up with the actual code.
@@PepperStone3 hey peter lets not give out advice online if we dont know whats going on. you are going to get someone severely injured