The Ending Of White Bear Explained | Black Mirror Season 2 Explained
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- The Ending of Black Mirror Season 2 Episode 2 "White Bear" (2013) Explained.
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This is one of the scariest concepts in black mirror.
Agreed, absolutely chilling episode
So true!
Same with white Christmas I mean people do horrific things to other people but when do us as people whom wish justice for the ones they hurt become the exact people. This episode freaked me out and white Christmas freaked me out more.
Also really unrealistic as even if you could keep the show running by capitalism (I love capitalism though) but there are so many horrible cases happens every day so how will you make so many amusement parks or stuff to have fun with so many criminals?
@@possessorofgreatness7620 You would just do a few select ones obviously; it’s realistic, what?
I’m ngl as soon as I found out she aided that girl's death I was against her immediately and felt no remorse for a second. Until I found out she repeatedly relives it then I started questioning myself and how easily I turn on ppl. Yikes, Black mirror is an eye-opener. It reveals people's character.
@@novicelifts5197 then you must be the most perfect human being in the world. She did a terrible inhumane thing, yes but what does torturing a person over and over prove or solve. Besides, you telling me you're glad she relives the same day only shows that you lack the same empathy and humanity that we are criticizing and demonizing the woman for. And it's a show so, calm tf down.
At least you realized your behavior throughout the show. It shows your humanity and it’s something we all need. We are all imperfect and once we realize that no one is born evil… we can come together.
think this is what this episodes wants us to do... question ourselves in these circumstances... coz i felt the exact same way
@@HS-yi9rd 😂😂😂😂😂
I must be cold blooded because I never felt empathy for her once her crime was revealed. The show wants you to, but I just saw it as a creative way to exact justice.
This punishment seems incredibly expensive just to pay back to one women lol.
People pay for it probably
The guests pay it
Actually they are making money off it.I think they care about making money then to punish someone
It's a theme park
The visitors pay money. It's just like a normal park except for the torturing lol
The symbol always reminded me of a Minecraft Creeper’s face lol
big facts
Haha
yeah it's like that but without the eyes lmao
SAME
Aaaaaaww maaan
The fact that they erase her memories constantly yet still punish her already should tell you HOW little they actually care about actual justice. It's more like Victoria was the punching bag for psychopaths to justify their psychopathy.
well people can’t control having psychopathy
Exactly!!! They are using the fact she's monster to justify their own monstrosity. They are no better than her
it is actual justice
@@m.ahmed.y1723 no it's not... That's literally the whole point of the episode is that this isn't justified this is just torture. In order for punishment to work the person has to understand what they have done wrong and live with those consequences knowing that was why. She has her memories completely wiped she has no idea where she is or what happened. That's not justice that's no different than the murder she committed
They are eventually going to stop it, the best thing to do is to keep doing this to her for a few years then do it one last time, and then reveal everything to her again and send her off to prison to spend her life sentence. That's probably what would happen in a world like this, people would have fun with her until they get bored and then they'd move on to another show, some new justified thrill. This concept is not that far fetched, justice like this or even worse than this are already being carried out around the world. And those carrying it out enjoy it, they revel in it. Their truth is that In order to destroy the monster you should be a way more dangarous and brutal monster. So they do it, and enjoy doing it. @@Ghostofthegallow
it also suggests that someone is never born evil they are made evil by life experiences becuase when she lost her memory she didnt think that she would even do something like that
yeah exactly. I also feel that it shouldn't matter whether she's innocent or even remorseful. We shouldn't enjoy torturing another human being full stop.
@@hermirony123 but in the same essence, the spectators are getting off on seeing someone terrified and tortured. It shows how cruel and inhumane we really are. Her guilt doesn't justify our desire to watch her be tormented over and over. Humans like watching others suffer, hence our love for wrestling, boxing and other contact sports.
@@thetruthhurts599 what? I your connection between sadism and contact sports confuses me
@@nobodyofknowhere973 it's all the same to me. Look at boxing for instance; spectators are not thrilled unless someone bleeds or gets seriously hurt.
Or cognitive dissonance
I know alcoholics who are like this and behave disgustingly they know they did it but because their memory is hazed they rather BELIEVE it never happened
The Ending of White Bear (Ending Explained) (Did I mention ending?) (Ending)
😂😂😂
simp much 😳
@Jack K It’s called a joke..
Oops
😂😂
Man what a weird position this episode puts you in. You empathize, then you don’t, then you do again. Then you’re just stuck not knowing how you feel. This might be the best episode on a terrifying and emotional level
definitely left me with an uneasy feeling in my stomach
The best episodes of black mirror makes you that, now it's something different sadly
TW: mentions CSA
This episode was the most triggering for me. I’m a sexual abuse survivor and in my pain and trauma have, at times, wished that my dad could know, by experiencing himself, exactly what he put me through. The reason this episode is triggering is because it made me feel empathy for the perpetrator. It made me realize that no matter how horrible a person is, no one should have to suffer like that. My abuse was wrong and should never have happened in the first place, but making my abuser experience the same thing doesn’t fix what happened to me. It only creates another victim and another perpetrator.
One thing my sister suggested, when we talked about this episode, was that it made it that much worse because they erased her memory every night. Maybe if she had remembered that she was guilty of the exact same crime, it might have felt like a punishment. But because she had no recollection of her crime, she just felt like a victim. I still don’t think it’s right, either way (whether they remember their crimes or not).
ETA: Trigger Warning
I felt like it was more for the spectators than for her feeling the consequences of her actions. Justice was not served for the little girl that was killed. In fact, the justice system of White Bear are just as bad as Victoria and her boyfriend.
@@ms.bubs4fun506 i feel like making a whole park based on one horrible crime is as bad as the crime. They profit in the death of that little gurl. And unless all the profits go to victims and there families. Then there is nonpointnof the park
Dont care
@@maximumhutser8088 Well, you took the time to read it so apparently you do
@@songriver1232 Exactly! The park and the spectators are no better.
Here's a spoiler, the next season of Black Mirror will just be footage from 2020.
You may not be far off haha Charlie Brooker posted a DeathTo2020 trailer on twitter, I shared a link on my community tab! It's something coming out on Netflix soon
This is my favorite episode by far! I automatically sided with Victoria the first time I watched it and so when it was revealed that she had aided in the death of a child, it left me feeling... dirty? For having sided with such a vile woman. Then I felt dirty for having, in the past, wishing this kind of suffering into a person when I hear that they’ve hurt a child. All in all, an excellent, stirring piece of art that truly changes a perspective.
honestly
This episode is disturbing as hell
But episode 2 of season one is a most disturbing episode
See, the whole episode I didn’t know what was real so I wasn’t sure if the story about what she did was true either
@@spiritualintrest2233 s1 @,,
The woman that killed Emmitt till is free and alive. Do you care about all child murderers? I know the answer.
God, this and Shut Up and Dance make me so concerned about how we view criminals. On one hand, some crimes are just irredeemable. But on the other hand, is that just society telling me that? If the perpetrator was genuinely remorseful and served their sentence, shouldn’t they be forgiven? It’s so hard to properly articulate it into words.
There are some crimes that shouldn't be forgiven. But I do think that the prison system and the way we view criminals who haven't killed or sexually assaulted others needs to be changed. Rehabilitation should be the goal.
@Xavier The Great the prison system needs to be completely redone. Look up the school to prison pipeline and modern slavery in prisons. It's horrid.
@Xavier The Great Considering it costs a lot to keep somebody locked up and you're removing someone who could be a part of society, cost shouldn't be considered. Not to mention, capitalism makes people believe that money should matter over peoples lives. It doesn't.
Redemption is a cool concept but I don't think you can kill the monster that's inside someone.
Anywho life imprisonment is the best option out of all
@@MR-fi7ki you're so very wrong. Redemption for many criminals is possible. Prison system just breaks most people further.
this episode RUINED me
Same haha
Damn Saiki
@@BryceEdwardBrown same omg.
The reason this episode hit me so hard is because of how it managed to make me realize that had I been part of this society, I would be part of the problem. The only reason I consider the people and law enforcement (the park employees and visitors) to be as despicable as I do is because I got to know Victoria as a human rather than a criminal first. But had I not, had the first thing I got to know about her been the news story, I wouldn't be able to sympathize with her.
It's an extremely powerful episode. As someone who pretty much never gets emotional from a TV show, movie or book, this one really got to me.
Me too. I was so sad for her because they “humanized” her first. I had so many conflicting emotions!!! 😩
COYS
lol yall want black mirror episodes to be compared to reality so bad that it’s cringe
The fact that when she first sees the photo of the little girl after she wakes up, she assumes she is her daughter. Says a lot.
@@dadillonfulKinda the point of the show but okay
White Bear was confusing at first and when the twist was revealed I was like WTF?! Wow yeah there both guilty. I've been waiting for Men against Fire ending explained since it was weird.
My Men Against Fire analysis is on the way!
*they're
Excellent commentary. There is another thing to remember too. Victoria's boyfriend, who did the actual torturing, committed suicide after they were caught so he escaped any punishment for his crime. Therefore the rage directed at Victoria is displaced from the worse criminal.
@@Dunlop77 but now everybody is doing the exact same thing that they are punishing Victoria for doing. Over and over again. And Victoria never remembers until they remind her. That makes them as sadistic as the boyfriend. Obviously there is no excuse for what she did but at what point does the punishment exceed the crime?
@@Dunlop77 I don’t need to be a mother to know that killing and torturing children are wrong. But is it right for everybody to become as sadistic as the original criminals and to turn the punishment into a tourist attraction? At that point, and this is what the writers of the episode are saying, those people are no better than Victoria or the real life counterparts that inspired this episode. And Victoria does not even know why people are pursuing her and filming it because her memory is erased each time so how does the punishment fit the crime when she is not aware that she is a criminal?
@@Dunlop77 so what you’re saying is that you need to be a mother to justify torturing somebody repeatedly for a crime they don’t remember committing.
@@Dunlop77 how did I patronize you?
Very great comment! The only one that made sense to me.
Kinda messed up to torture a person so many times even if they committed a crime... Doesn't make you any different than the guilty one :(
Exactly!
Exactly. This punishment was nothing more than torture porn and was entirely for the crowd's enjoyment, not about punishing the guilty, and especially not about rehabilitating her. They are no better than she is.
and is she still the perpetrator of the crime if she doesn't even remember it? is she still in that same mindset she was when she actually committed the crime?
@@dankcarolyn420 yeah, experiences are what shape people.
If you take away a person's memories, you essentially destroy those experiences. And without those are they still that same person? If not, should this new person be held accountable for crimes, that they, as someone that is arguably very different, committed?
What if ur kid was kidnpped and killed then recorded? Lmao dont play saint fucker
The thing that shocks me to my core is that The person who actually tortured and murdered the girl is not getting enough attention then person who just filmed it it’s getting literally tortured groundhog day style
That is the point they're trying to convey. Just like the audiences enjoying filming her getting tortured, Victoria did the exact same thing. She could've resisted and saved the little girl, but she chose not to.
@@aksharsolanki328 I'm not defending her filming but can you really blame her for not standing up? I wouldn't either because if that person can kill, I don't think they would mind much to get an extra target
@@straawberryfieldsforever then never have children because if you wouldn't give up your life in the face of danger for your child you don't deserve them
@@princetriton1308 it wasn't her kid, it was someone's kid that he murdered. Also people don't think logically in the heat of the moment, if I were in her shoes maybe I wouldn't help to film it but I would probably just freeze and act upon my own survival
@@straawberryfieldsforever I thought she was the mother, are you sure?
I hear you but the way I am about children in general me and dude would be fighting to the death, I can't stand by and watch children go through shit
I witness too much of that shit when I was young but I get that everyone's not the same, I just couldn't stand by and do nothing I couldn't live with myself
the thing is, she isn’t receiving a punishment. this is torture.
a punishment is given to one to acknowledge that they did something wrong.
but how will Victoria know she did something wrong in the first place if she doesn’t remember?
pure torture. not only are the spectators complete hypocrites (by doing what Victoria did to Jemima), but they are also profiting out of a little girl’s death.
and not to mention a lot of people are so weirded out on how people sympathize with Victoria. It’s extremely easy to sympathize with her, since we first met her as a human who does not know where she is. we met her as a completely normal human. not a criminal. people aren’t born evil, they become evil.
Yet the point is that they are giving her what she deserves they made her the little girl she murdererd an innocent girl who was tortured forced to suffer and recorded the horrors and fear of death. Then they erase her symbolic of the little girl being killed and then she repeats the process. Its meant to show that while she lives the little girl will never have a chance to live shes gone
"We met her as completely normal human"
NO!!
Normal humans know why they are where they are.
@@darrengordon-hillbut they literally erased all of her memories, how is she supposed to know what she's done? they're repeating the same cruelty over and over, its torture
@@aninymphtbh they didn't care for little girl are not doing that for her they are just doing it to have their park audience and visitors
the fact she can’t kill herself if she wanted to .. will the actors get tired doing it repeatedly .. will there be off days ? lol.. this episode is deep as hell
Just get new actors
@@user-og9nl5mt1b its probably a funded event and eventually they'll get another victim with another storyline they can play
You'd think that Victoria was rehabilitated by the end of the ordeal, but Baxter pointed out that she was distraught when being tortured, yet she was fine wile filming the girl being tortured. But if she has her memory wiped, then she can never rehabilitate.
i guess that’s part of the message. when you focus more on torturing a criminal than rehabilitating them, what’s the end goal? we do this in some societies too with the prison system
@@AlmostEthical yeah I don't think they care about rehabilitation. Maybe at one point they will stop and let her keep her memories but maybe that will be after she has been deeply traumatized..... By that point she might just even kill herself at that point.
Victoria is a fascinating antagonist in my eyes. The more you think about her character, the more tragic and disturbing her story gets.
Not an antagonist
She's the protagonist
@Worst Channel evil ≠ antagonist, she is the the lead character in the story making her the protagonist
@Worst Channel the people who tortured her would be the antagonists
@Worst Channel making him the protagonist
Abusing the perpetrator doesn’t do anything to help the victim, you’re just becoming the abuser yourself, and the perpetrator becomes the victim.
Yeah, just kill them instead and everyone can be happy
@@lithuaniaball Killing is morally wrong in almost all circumstances. “Oh, you killed someone? That’s bad! Well I’m gonna kill you for killing someone!” makes no sense.
@@EclipseOfTsuki93 if there were no people, there would be no crimes. in your world, you don't get to punish people for being bad, so how else are we to get rid of crime?
@@lithuaniaball first of all, I would still have punishments for people who do crimes. I just wouldn’t have them tortured or killed. And more importantly, you need to prevent crimes before they happen, deal with the socio-economic factors that lead people to commit crimes, and invest heavily in psychological medical care so that unhinged people don’t end up hurting anyone
@@EclipseOfTsuki93 "you need to prevent crimes before they happen"
Oh, so you really are a fascist then. Here I was thinking it was just going to be a a joke when I called you one
I was as confused as her while watching the episode. I thought it's some kind of apocalypse.
Ending was sick.
On top of a whole shit load of other problems, them erasing her memory essentially makes her innocent. They're torturing an inocent person every day.
I have ur dp as my wallpaper ;)
exactly, after all without memory it's as if she's been reborn as a baby in adult form, fundamentally innocent and good
@@miketheknight7479 but I think that’s the point….
She has become as innocent as the little girl who died. That is the point. But it is still very very WRONG
That is the very reason why they erase her memory, so that she'll be as innocent as the little girl, and as helpless and confuse as the little girl when she is experiencing torture while another human being only watches her.
Why wipe her memory though? That just makes it fun for others to continuously torture her, which then puts them in her position. They're punishing her for something they actively get involved in under the guise of 'justice'. She's not actually learning the lesson if she isn't remembering it, and she is unlearning it each night. You wouldn't even know if she deserved, or could be rehabilitated because you're forcing her to live out each day the same.
If you were to truly do this twice would be sufficient. Once as empathy for Jemima, to see how she would feel. And then once (without the wipe!) as herself receiving the punishment.
How does this affect her brain too? If this messing her up (the technology) how is she truly learning her message?
You can't do this twice without wiping her memories. If she already knows the truth then the punishment is pointless. Once is enough
I think the purpose wasn't her redemption or punishment, it was just about the joy of the crowd inflicting pain to a criminal and feeling better. Nothing more, just entertainment (and profit).
@@TheProxy2 you’re right. I think in my mind not wiping it the second time made sense but it doesn’t.
@@e.p.6988 yep!
@@AndSoWeLaughed wiping her memory is just to recreate exactly the events of the park without major modification.
Also they did that to recreate over and over again the innocence, submission and confussion of the little girl when she was kidnapped
The park is meant to put the girl's shoes into the abuser, in the most "human" way (obviously, no one is wounded physically and there is no real torture, althought we can figure out what the girl suffered based on the gimmicks and things of the park)
This episode changed my opinions about how justice is carried out.
I think the link to the actual prison system and definitions of justice are super worth analyzing further. This type of “justice” is punitive, sadistic, and counterproductive to society, but it’s how a lot of prison systems play out, through dehumanization.
It would be interesting to see a sequel where a real life accident happens during one of the “performances” and she risks/gives her life to save one of the actors or visitors from a real danger. I wonder how the participants would react. Maybe they would even realize that she might have been fundamentally good and was just another victim under the influence of her ex. If so, I wonder how they would reflect upon their own actions partaking in the psychological torture.
I don´t mean to nit-pick but she definitely was not a victim under the influence of her ex..no matter her rehabilitation and change of character, she will always be guilty..bcs she was responsible for her actions
@@stuart2777 yeahh but thats where the moral issue of the episode comes in doesn't it? does the character really deserve this sort of punishment if she has no memory? after all without memory of her raising environment she's simply a blank slate, innocent with no clue what's going on
Nope that's just not who she is, she let the man get killed by the masked man through her not helping him despite the woman's insistence
@@sylviethetg7598 to be fair, she was scared.
That’s an interesting sequel, i was also thinking of a sequel in where a spectator accidentally triggers more of her memories and she realizes that she’s a criminal and being punished and she tries to either kill herself or try to escape
Maybe it's just Victoria's cookie in the justice park, so she doesn't need to eat or drink or sleep?!
Just a theory & probably wrong, but why not? It's Black Mirror after all...
Several episodes are all about highlighting the fact that cookies are equal to people, so even if it is just a copy of her and not actually her, it doesn't make it any better.
@@breadfan_85 she isnt saying if its right or wrong even if its her cookie. she is saying thats how she is able to relive her torture in the park without eating or drinking much because its her cookie.
@@aegela I mean aren’t cookies their own people? They’re the same person but in different points so they’re also not the same person
I always thought jemima was her daughter. I feel 1% better that she’s not
Yes!!! Waited so long for this analysis!!! I’m so happy I’m not alone in thinking about the hypocrisy of this situation, how are they any better than her? She doesn’t even know what she’s done wrong until the very end of the day. I’m not sympathetic towards her at all, what she did was absolutely despicable but this is not real justice, it’s all purely for entertainment.
Exactly
She should have known
One of the oddities of life, no mercy for the merciless.
If someone does this to my child or family member, I am not gonna be "the bigger" person. Why should anyone have to have their child tortured like this and then have to forgive? That's not how it works.
@@idr121 oh thank the lord there Is someone with some sense on here. My children are my world I have gone to hell and back to have them they r precious. Why would anyone have mercy on someone this evil!!
@@Dunlop77 they weren’t even doing it for the right reasons tho.
i wish i could watch this episode for the first time again
@@janeschwab1682 Lmao! Well said.
It"s possible that this device gets invented and that s the very first thing we all gonna do with it xDDD
The questions about how Victoria can physically endure this day after day (with barely any food, hygiene etc) are immediately answered if she is a cookie in a digitally constructed world. One of the returning themes of the series is how the real humans view their digital copies as ‘just code’, to be used and abused as they see fit. This would explain how they could be so cruel - the real Victoria is probably rotting away in prison.
Just a theory
“Oh you did such a terrible thing. What kind of human being would kill someone and record it to enjoy?” Meanwhile they do far worse than death and record it and amuse themselves. God we are really the worst.
the woman had done worse then what they were doing to her
@@ben-dn4sv Not true imo. While it was terrible what she did it's not even comparable to the repeated psychological terror inflicted on her everyday - if you ask me a fate far worse than death. In the end she begs for death and I can totally see why...
@@Cineastre do you think any moment of this for her is comparable to the fear and trauma the little girl had gone through in her last moments
@@ben-dn4sv Honestly - yeah I do. Throughout the whole thing she's put in the scenario of some people wanting to kill her for absolutely no reason. But not only that - she's put through the same torture *every day* and realizes exactly that every evening before having her memory wiped. How fucked up is that?
@@Cineastre I still think what the girl had to go through was much more fucked up and to die so young
My theory was the whole time that she was in a fake environment. I was under the assumption though that she was in a program where family of suicidal people put them into. Without memory , to be scared for their lives, experiencing that people just watched your suffering and didn’t do anything to help but being left with the feeling of wanting to live and survive. I thought the bandages on her wrists and the pills on the floor where a clue.
The White Bear justice park is the definition of cruel and unusual punishment
If it was your daughter murdered I believe you wouldn’t mind seeing her tortured
How can you punish someone with no memories of their crime? A person needs to at least know why they are being punished.
Genuinely not being difficult, but what about a drunk driver who’s forgotten their crime
@@thatevilchicken Most people know that drinking can cause memory loss. In that case, you were sort of responsible for that yourself. This woman had her memories forcibly removed.
@@korytoombs886in general the law said you are less responsible for your actions when you are drunk, memory loss or not.
The thing about the White Bear Park is it isn’t Justice... it’s revenge torture. As soon as they wipe her memory everyday they aren’t punishing a criminal, they’re torturing a confused woman. The point of punishment is to have the individual learn from their actions whatever that punishment might be. If you don’t remember what you did theres no point to punish.
The park is just sadistic pleasure with a way to justify it. At a certain point the patrons and staff are just as bad as the person they hate.
Absolutely! When I first watched this episode years back, I automatically was like, "okay, yes she deserves this." But now that I've watched it again, it's the fact that she has no memory of her crimes. So they are literally torturing an "innocent" person. If she did remember her crimes, and everything, then yes - this concept would be punishment. Let's say they this did this to someone like Ted Bundy or Richard Ramierez (without wiping their memories), I would say this punishment is justified most definitely.
Bro the point of punishment is not to teach the person a lesson, its mostly to teach others. And in most case its to protect and reimburse.
And she tortured, kidnapped, killed and filmed a child, yeah lets teach her a lesson, put her back into society, i hope she becomes your kids nanny not the nanny of mine
@@loomonda18is it unjust to punish people with no memory of there actions? So if i go blackout drunk and throw a pipebomb in a full subway, innocent yes? Not deserving of punishment?
@@georgemurdock7670 idk man i mean why would you make such an example out of a women who will suffer everyday without knowing why !!
Been waiting for this episode for ages yay
How fitting now
Hopefully, it was worth the wait!
This is my favorite Black Mirror episode. Lenora Crinchlow played that role very well!
when it was revealed she was a criminal, it made sense to me. she was getting punished. But then when I realised that it was all erased every night and she lived the same day over again, it felt pointless. how's she supposed to learn from this if she keeps getting her memory of the crime erased? This just puts her through a pointless torment cycle for no reason, and she thinks it's the first time every day. She doesn't even feel the torment of the same thing happening every day! The only point is that maybe new spectators get to enjoy it? No justice here
I will never believe that a crime should go unforgiven. This is... torture. Cruel and unusual punishment. I’m not a Christian but I do love their belief that all crimes are equal in the eyes of the lord and all can be forgiven. Jesus forgave and even invited murderers of Christians to become his friends. No one is beyond improvement. Bad people aren’t born, they’re made, and they can be changed. Of course if someone murders a child they shouldn’t just say sorry and be back in the streets... but they shouldn’t be tortured. They should be given the opportunity to see and address their wrongdoings and make themselves better from those experiences.
So true.. I like your commentary. God still forgive us about our mistake. Even for the most mistaken life choice.
They didn’t give her the opportunity to change. What she did was horrible but she isn’t able to learn or try to change, she spends majority of the episode feeling like a victim
So torturing a woman for 40 days mercilessly until her death( Junko Furuta )is equal to stealing a chocolate bar ? That’s beyond stupid. Some crimes will never be forgiven.
@@ubs16 yeah....idk about this one. All crimes are definitely not equal and shouldn't be treated as such. We can definitely have that discussion of what should be done and where's the line in terms of a consequence.
i disagree,,not all of crimes are equal and thinking that way is harmful,,something can be lawfully wrong but morally right,,should they be punished the same?
I was wondering why her "helper" Gem threatened to tase her when she threw a phone at someone. It made sense when they were park visitors.
Black mirror is one of the most brilliant shows that truly exposes the condition of the human heart.
They made a theme park out of her. This made me question my morals. Bc i feel like she didn’t deserve the torture. How did the producers even come up with this? That might be the sickest most evil way of torture there is. 😳 but then u have the small girl 😢 anyways big mind f#ck
To all people saying "Where's the need behind this kind of punishment if she doesn't learn from her mistakes?", well that's the point of this episode, in my opinion: no one cares about rehabilitating her, it's just pure and inhumane revenge.
This episode basically represents that feeling of revenge that, even in our world, people get when hearing about rapists or murderers on the news or more generally when thinking about criminals. To most people's eyes, this kind of treatment is "justice", because criminals are very easily dehumanized like Victoria is in this episode. And to their eyes, this gives some sort of justification to what's essentially torture.
Which I find very, very terrifying.
You know the golden rule? Don’t do to others, what you don’t want others to do to you. I find this episode a very good example of it. Bitter karma for the murder. She proves every day that she didn’t want that happen to her, yet she did it in the past. The park is a nice reminder for people to behave, or others do to you what you don’t want.
Terrifying are the people calling out for rehabilitation imo, like why should we do that
never thought of it that way. the idea of media manipulating us. *mind blown*
This episode damaged me, it also reminded me of how people sometimes take videos when others need help instead of stepping in
The most terrifying thing for me was that for a brief moment, when they revealed Victoria’s crime, I thought “she deserved it”, and then I remembered how scared I was for her before the reveal.
This episode hits a trigger for me. I’ve had panic attacks that teeter on similarities of this episode. What a genius episode. The twist left me so baffled.
Hit hard for me too. I have incurable medication resistant epilepsy and frequently get seizures that erase my memory.
I related to the loss of memory she had and getting tiny flashes of it but not being able to piece together the whole picture. Memory loss is incredibly traumatizing and I honesty got so disgusted with the people who put her through this time and time again just for their little show and not for her to be able to redeem herself.
The thing they put on her after every little show might eventually cause a neurological disorder too like epilepsy. Epilepsy is caused by overactive neurons in the brain and if they play with her brain by using electrical signals then she could easily get diagnosed with epilepsy. But i guess they'd just laugh at that too. No matter how much i hated someone I'd never wish that they got a neurological desease, it's truly horrible to loose control over your own body and mind time and time again for years.
@@Electivedrop Thank you for sharing! It must be rough to deal with. I’m sure this episode hit home.
Yeah, how awful, right? Pure torture! Black Mirror is fucked up like that haha.
@@logan4x6 yepp definitely, almost all episodes just make you go o_o afterwards, guess that's what they're meant to do though 😅. They succeeded in shocking everyone and making them rethink the whole thing.
I don't understand how the masses in the episode think this is punishment and not entertainment. She's literally getting her memory wiped everyday, so the "punishment" she's getting is being reset everyday, it's so obvious the runners of the park just want to make money...
I've read some comments and I gotta say, I don't think that Victoria being tortured or not is really that relevant in this case. You could say her body is being tortured, but her mind is reset, so the torture is also reset. From the moment they reset her mind, all the psichological griefing she received is erased.
It’s crazy how I started out wanting to help her feeling sorry for what was happening to her, & couldn’t wait to know why. Then you hear what she did and the sympathy, empathy goes straight away I really didn’t care how she felt or what was happening to her anymore, crazy how the feelings changed in seconds.
Well then u r no better than her
@@alexatanasov9573 And Ok I said what I said move on.
@@SilentRachelcorny
Putting a murderer in jail is not for revenge or punishment. Only god can judge and punish. We put them there to keep society safe from them and let them reflect on their actions and maybe regret and learn from it.
Episode hit quite hard
Makes you question who the real monsters are
what she did was so so so wrong but why would they wipe her memory? that defeats the whole point. she doesn’t know what she is being punished for
Is it me
Or does it feel more satisfying to watch someone being tortured
If they felt no remorse on the crime they did or felt proud on their crime
Or felt as if they're right
Idk it just seems more satisfying to watch someone who's a total embodiment of an asshole to get hurt
Cathartic af lol
The amount of people who missed the point of this episode drives me MAD
It’s kinda scary
But.. why again and again? How is that important for her punishment? More for their profit
This episode showed how little empathy most people have.
Years ago, they showed this episode in a college class I was taking, and we had a discussion on it afterwards. I was horrified and shocked to discover that the vast majority of the class thought that the torture was deserved. It didn't matter that her memory was wiped and she had no recollection of her crimes; it didn't matter that the extent of her torture far outweighed the extent of the torture she committed on that young girl; it didn't matter that the park-goers were indulging in this sick commodification of her punishment and treating it like an amusement park for the whole family to enjoy-all that mattered is that she did the crime, therefore she deserved everything that was happening to her.
This episode is a really good barometer to determine whether a person is a sociopath, and frankly, far too many people fail that test. If you watch this episode, and you're even on the fence about whether she deserves this level of torture, especially when she has zero recollection of what she's done to deserve it, then you fail as a human being. Punishment must always be proportional to the crime, and it must always be for the purpose of instructing the criminal that what they did was wrong and not to be repeated, or just get rid of the criminal entirely. But there is no justice in this kind of torture, and anyone who thinks for even a moment that there is is a product of a sick and amoral society that teaches us that criminals are subhuman and not worth empathizing with.
It’s contradicting that you say people who justify her torture is wrong. The parents have to live with the rest of their life knowing what happened to their daughter, she deserve this punishment, she chose to do it and is dealing with the consequence.
I think her fiance or the man who tortured the girl is the one who definitely deserve this punishment
@@staninsertkpopgroup1181 If you want to make a case that the woman deserves torture because the girl's parents have to suffer the loss of their child, I can get behind that. What I can't get behind is torturing what is essentially a blank slate of a human being who doesn't know why they're being tormented and who doesn't possess the capacity to reflect on their crimes because of routine memory wipes. It's nothing but pure sadism. And even in cases where the criminal IS aware of their crimes and the punishment is deserved, it is NEVER okay to treat the suffering of others as something to be commodified. That's just demented and sick.
This punishment should be done just once. And then no more memory wipe just rotting in jail. She will experience what the victim felt and in a way understand it. That’s the way to do it. Not a memory wipe each day so they have no idea why they’re being punished or giving them anytime to understand what they did
@@staninsertkpopgroup1181 Well where do you draw the line? What if she was put in some simulation where she experienced horrible burning pain for hundreds of years, is that okay with you? Also this does nothing to help the parents, except maybe give them some pointless sense of revenge that helps with nothing
Both are horrific, but Ian should have definitely had a worse punishment than Victoria
This episode is one of the most terrifying in my opinion, imagine Groundhog Day but for torturing a person who've done a bad deed like this person does. Does she deserves any of this? Does she deserves a remorse or any sorts of forgiveness at all? It all comes down to the society. Pretty damn crazy how powerful the herd mentality or the mob mentality can affect people's remorseful feeling toward each other even if that person did something so wrong.
Why should she get what she deserves? She is a prime example for other kidnappers how there story will end so they might not commit there crime
Really hate how you didnt compare this to prisons and only compared it to social media
I thought the exact same
What
Let’s not forget that some people actually ARE monsters.
How we deal with monsters is what does, or doesn’t, make monsters out of us all.
This episode shows how not only can anyone be a villain, but more people are okay with people being treated poorly due to bad choices they made. And we see how certain crimes are deemed worse than others but fail to see how our day to day actions affect others negatively as well. I feel the best solution would be to interview people who do these kind of crimes, gain their insight to why they did it free of judgment, and implement strategies and teachings so that we as a society can learn to avoid this behavior with explanations as to how it came to be and why it’s important not to be repeated. Then, you could offer the person a chance to change with education and a basic necessities and is let go from re education until they learn so they’re isn’t a timetable and you’d always be able to test out if you truly show no psychological or mental signs of repeating with true understanding. But some people are evil bc it’s what they enjoy and if they refuse they stay in re education life long bc they don’t want to understand or painless death if the masses request but that’s still judgement and killing a human for subjective reasons is the same. You can’t exercise supreme authority like that and think you’re just enough to kill or torture someone bc of your opinion. Could you actually face reality if someone who’s murdered a child has better karma than you who hasn’t? Ofc re education centers would eventually become obsolete like everything in society when we have progressed far enough to where the values of society are advanced and more humanitarian. Something will always be unfair but it could be ideal and humane as possible and susceptible to change if need be.
This happens to people unfortunately, humans are programmable and some have been programmed as slaves or had their memories wiped. I remember when I asked for help with something, and people mocked me. It had been like a set up in the first place, a situation someine designed fir me to fail...knowing full well I had been abused and programmed and tortured. I wanted to help, I tried to help, and then it fell apart and I became frustrated. It happened over and over, and I forgave them each time.
Was she programmed or manipulated by the man to kidnap the girl? How many times had they wiped her memory since that day? How many people did the same thing to her repeatedly?
I dint know of it says much about her except that she was programmed into a sin, then programmed into torture. It days more about the spectators than it does about her, actually the fact shes trying to help find the child...that makes her better than the others by default. Go figure.
I know my family was involved in some band stuff, but I don't condemn them. I know my husband did some bad stuff to me too, but I don't condemn him.
I love him and our family, but I don't quite know what to think of how they treated me or some of the children. Perhaps something similar happened, I'm not sure yet.
I don't think I want to torture others for their sins or their families sins.
I don't see how that helps them.
I just wish to have a normal life with my husband and children.
A lot of episodes seem to be condemning the prison systems of some countries (I immediately thought of the US, since I live here, but I'm sure there are others), and it's so effective, if it is getting through to the audience. The idea that the purpose of prisons and jail time is strictly punishment, and never rehabilitation, is just kinda vile, it helps no one. In episodes like this, where the pain of someone who has done something horrible is used as entertainment and satisfaction... you have to confront why you think it's so satisfying. Why does their punishment and pain feel so much better than their much more helpful repentance and rehabilitation?
So you want rapist, child molesters serial killers to run around what is wrong with you. They deserve to rot and suffer for that evil fuck rehabilitation
This is by far my favorite episode of black mirror I absolutely love it. It was so good and the ending was amazing it doesn’t get the recognition it deserves thanks for the video
Agreed, this episode was game changing, it's manipulation of perspective was handled so well
I wish this was real. These worthless criminals deserve so much worse than what prisons are right now. In fact they should be used as human trial subjects for experiments.
I watched it and thought it was hypercritical to torture someone who has done a crime. It’s disgusting. Why does she need her mind erased? She’s no longer a criminal but a victim. It’s really stupid.
Yesssss this is my favorite episode!!!!
Except for maybe White Christmas. Or Shut Up and Dance.. or Men Against Fire... or Hang the DJ.... or Black Museum..... fuck, this show is so good
White Christmas is #1 and White Bear is #2. But I am partial to many others.
@@bojackbojackbojack Right? It would be easier for me to list the handful of episodes I don't like.. 90% of the episodes are phenomenal
White Christmas, White Bear, San Junipero, Shut up and Dance, Black Museum
It's such a good show haha
@@Foxys1974 San Junipero was my least favourite episode, probably because I'm a younger person I couldn't really relate to it. Hated in The Nation was absolutely the best episode in my opinion.
What’s scary is that this happens every day. There was recently something in the news where someone was getting se*ually assaulted on a train/metro and no one did anything and police weren’t even notified until later. People don’t want to get their hands dirty or in the case of an argument or fight they don’t want to get hurt or involved. It’s messed up, like at least call the police.
Those people were yelling at that person and myself personally would of thrown hands but you need to remember there are laws like if someone came shooting at you and ran away and you lay a few shots on their back as they run away then you will be the predator vs prey and justice won’t be serve even if you were attacked first. It sucks and that’s why we need costume vigilantes
Ppl nowadays will film a fight where someone is getting badly beat up by a group of ppl and post it on social media too.
At this point it’s not about punishment, it’s just a business.
People pay to get there and it’s just entertainment to them. The crime she did is just an excuse so they don’t feel bad about it.
What I love best about your Black Mirror breakdowns is I always learn something new that I previously overlooked or just straight up didn’t catch. Perfect example of this was that white bear leaning against the fence in the grass... that was news to me.
And trust me, I’m a Black Mirror NERD, I’ve watched the series in full at least a few times, and always look for the small hidden details and subtle connections to other episodes... so when you reveal new information about an episode I previously thought I knew everything about, it makes me so happy. I’m such a dweeb.
I think this episode also represents how people in our society will do anything for money, even if the things they are doing for it is wrong. What they are doing to Victoria is wayyy too much, punishing someone this deeply whether or not the person also did something is not okay. It shows how blinded society can be if they are entertained or making money.
This episode made us pick sides. To believe that the park employees and the spectators did justice to Victoria is not the question. Victoria did not resist and save Jemima while she was being tortured and murdered. Victoria filmed it whether under his spell or she actually enjoyed it. The question is, when the White Bear Justice Park placed you as the spectator would you help her while she is being tortured or film her just the way she did. Its a never ending loop.
yup, just as the media labelled trump a monster to the point that some people just hate him with no clear reason
maybe making her go through that one time would have been acceptable but making a profit from someones punishment is completely crazy
In our real world now, I believe that's exactly what's happening and being committed by certain countries...
I doubt she learned her lesson if she kept forgetting her memories
Summarise in one sentence -
"Eye for an eye make whole world blind" ~ Mahatma Gandhi
We can't do the same to anyone, irrespective to the crime he or she committed.
Black Mirror fan from 🇮🇳✨😃
Love to watch your analysis man, they are impeccable.👏🏻🙇🏻♂️
ofc! she should have got punished but because she couldn’t remember, no real justice was served. she should have just been sent to jail
She might have done what she did but nobody deserves this punishment. It’s torture. We know nothing of her sentence but when it’s over she will be completely unable to function as a person having lost multiple years of her life. I’m not saying she doesn’t need to be punished but this punishment offers no ability for change
The thing is the Victoria we meet is not the Victoria who murderer Jemima. This is pure torture
I feel like criminals should face the same fate as the people who's lives they affect. If they kill someone, sorry but no matter how much remorse or rehabilitation they have, that person still lost their life. Alternatively if they hurt or torture someone an the person survives, the same should be done to the criminal, but nothing more. So I feel like she should have gone through like a couple of days at the justice park but then be set free, i feel like that would be just. Just my opinion though, open to having it changed.
They are profiting out of a child’s death!! There is nothing good about it. It is just mental to think that is okay.
And guess what? Not all people who kill someone do it intentionally. In law this is called involuntary manslaughter.
but when does it end? if a murderer gets sentenced to death, aren’t their executor a murderer too? you never fight fire with fire
@@mtutorialesum but she did do it intentionally!
@@jimena5651well, it's pretty different because the person murdering the murderer is doing it so that the murderer never gets a chance to murder again
A very deontologist way of seeing this issue.
One thing that really gets me is how they showed her the video footage and news clips to torment her, meaning that on some level they knew that she wasn’t just a sadistic monster and would find her actions just as reprehensible as they did
Exactly! When you watch "Loch Henry" the murderer mother enjoys rewatching her tapes of her victims. She didn't care what she had done. I think Victoria is remorseful and regretful of what she'd done.
Still deserves punishment...just not this!
The "under his spell" is fitting because a "Black Mirror" was a small smooth black stone used by wizards and witches to see "events" and cast "spells", it was called a "Tele" We now have television, and the "Magic" of old has become reality.
I just need to know why are they punishing Victoria but not the guy who actually kill the girl, like, where is he?
I believe he committed suicide in prison before being sentenced?
I think she pleaded guilty and he didn't. They were both found guilty and he received the death penalty for taking the not guilty plea. But maybe an underlying message is that society is harder on women being expected to do the right thing. Also, the justice system is harder on people of color.
@@ms.bubs4fun506
Forget it, i just watched again, the guy hang himself.
I like your interpretation tho.
Me: "LOL!!! Did he really just introduce a bear pun counter?"
3 second later...
Bryce: "Did he just introduce a bear pun counter"
😆
What did they do to her partner though
He committed un alive
This was probably the scariest episode of Black Mirror. Total nightmare..
SHES SUCH A GOOD ACTRESS!!
This episode is truly horrifying
fr love these analysis videos, the detail you go into is so satisfying and thorough, you really add to the value of the show for me.
I greatly appreciate that, thank you!
This episode triggered me like crazy
I have a childhood trauma where i was tortured, i felt hopeless, couldn’t escape it and that memory kept coming back in flashbacks my whole childhood to the early adulthood, a year ago they came back again.. I emphatize with her because she lives in a loop which reminds me of the flashbacks and i think i’m dying and coming back to that day, the screams were really on point. This episode really messed me up..
I gotta say, your analysis of these Black Mirror episodes are damn good.
First, they got you to like the character. Emphasize with her. Even thought she's done something unethical, you feel wrong about the punishment she's getting. But imagine the scene where her boyfriend killed the kid while she was recording. I bet you would right away agree with punishment method.
Now we talk the second, her "re-born" showed her character in terrorized state. She looks helpless, not innocent. Police snapshot showed her real state. By the photo, you can tell she was everything but innocent. I hope we all do know how one becomes a villain. World makes you. Maybe she was really under his spell. I truly believe she was under his spell. Someone capable of killing a kid wouldn't even slightly react on it's actions once they've been deleted and "re-shown" again, is because they know what they are capable of, because it sounds like them, and they hear it.
I thought this story was going to be about the bystander effect but boy was there more layers to it.
I honestly felt so bad for Victoria :(
She is a murder
@@angelxox1820 she still didnt deserve this she deserved to be locked up but not this you never know that she was scared her self while her boyfriend was doing that to the girl she might have been forced
@@amirrhodesve791 also maybe she might have told her boyfriend to do that though, and just played a part at her trial, and really she was the manipulator the whole time, when it came to it she did try and shoot someone when noone else could defend her..... however will add in real life no to capital punishment or torture obviously
@@Brian-fq8rv there was a short scene where she was litterally crying while this was going on just think its not as black and white as we make it out to be
@@Brian-fq8rv at the end of the day they are punishing an innocent person because they wiped her memory and has no memory of doing anything like it
I saw this and was happy as hell thank you for analyzing all of this so well its honestly so interesting.
Reading stuff like this makes my day, thank you!
this episode conveys perfectly a very controversial but rather common behaviour that people show when they read about a truly horrible crime. some people are fucked up and do terrible actions; but is it really justice wishing them endless torture? Because we do that. We wish endless torture on others just like in this episode - and you can see it's as fucked up as the crime itself
This is why karmic reincarnation is so scary for me. Think about it...
I would agree to have this done to pedophiles and child murderers ..
I would 100%
But what if... Her boyfriend actually made her do it? She would technically be innocent. I wonder why no one's talking about that. Or did I miss some details?
He stated she enjoyed her getting tortured